On The Line
A Podcast for today's Wildland Firefighters.
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Leadership Bravo
03/05/2024
Leadership Bravo
For this, the second installment of our two part leadership series, and the last episode of On The Line season four, Mark Smith from Mission Centered Solutions joins the podcast. Mark reviews the creation of the first Leadership (L) courses in wildland fire after the South Canyon Fire, his work with Honor the Fallen and their essay “The Big Lie” following the Yarnell Hill Fire, and his assessment of where leadership training is at in the fire services today and the challenges that lie ahead. The Big Lie can be found at the following link: For the first time ever, this episode of On The Line is also available as a vodcast. It can be found at YouTube at:
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Leadership Alpha
10/20/2023
Leadership Alpha
For the next two episodes (Leadership Alpha, Leadership Bravo) On The Line is focusing upon leadership in wildland fire. And for the first of those episodes, we are so fortunate to have Mike Degrosky kick off that conversation. Mike has spent more than forty years in the fire service, in roles as diverse as volunteer, hotshot, Ops Section Chief, FMO, Training Officer, and Chief Officer. His academic credentials are equally as impressive: bachelors degree in forestry and fire science, masters and doctoral degrees in Leadership Studies. He has consulted, primarily in the space of leadership development training, and he just recently retired as Chief of the Fire Protection Bureau at Montana DNRC. He continues to write the acclaimed "Thoughts on Leadership" column in Wildfire Magazine.
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Fire and a Changing Climate
10/02/2023
Fire and a Changing Climate
In this, the fourth episode of season four, Dr. Phil Higuera from the University of Montana's Paleoecology and Fire Ecology Lab joins the podcast to discuss his and others' recent research efforts focusing upon declines in conifer resilience, the increasing loss of structures in western wildfires, and how climate change in general is affecting the fire landscape. As mentioned at the end of the podcast, UM graduate student Luke Santore is studying firefighter wellbeing. If interested in taking part in his research, please scan the QR code below for the firefighter wellbeing survey. Or go to, tinyurl.com/wlffwellbeing
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Female Wildland Firefighters
08/24/2023
Female Wildland Firefighters
While females make up 10-12% of the wildland fire workforce, very little is known about them from a research perspective. Katie Christison, a Ph. D. student at the University of Montana, joins host Charlie Palmer to discuss her research focusing upon how female wildland firefighters (wlff) may be challenged to maintain thermoregulation and hydration balance due to hormonal fluctuations across the menstrual cycle. Katie also discusses some of the other gaps in our understanding of the female wlff experience, and upcoming research that might fill in these holes. As mentioned at the end of this podcast, UM graduate student Luke Santore is examining wlff wellbeing. To access Luke's survey, scan the QR code below, or go to tinyurl.com/wlffwellbeing
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Critical Training
08/02/2023
Critical Training
Critical Training (CT) represents a two week (80 hour) period of time at the beginning of the season for each crew. Much important work happens during these fourteen days, including key training, physical challenges, completion of the pack test, and the initial efforts at building crew cohesion. While it remains a vital piece of each crew's development, little is known about the CT process from a research standpoint. Researchers Dr. Chuck Dumke and soon to be Dr. Katie Christison from the University of Montana join host Charlie Palmer to discuss their multiple studies examining Critical Training, and the important results from these investigations. In the most recent study, nearly one in four subjects reached critical levels of Serum Creatine Kinase during CT.
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Dr. Brent Ruby
06/19/2023
Dr. Brent Ruby
In this, the first episode of season four, a visit from the incomparable Dr. Brent Ruby. Brent has been studying wildland firefighters in the lab and the field at the University of Montana for the last two and a half decades, and he stops by the podcast studio to discuss with moderator Charlie Palmer his latest published work: a never before done comprehensive review focusing on firefighter physiology. Compiled with co-authors Robert Coker, Joe Sol, John Quindry, and Scott Montain, this journal article exams key performance areas such as nutrition, hydration, physical training, heat illness, altitude, smoke exposure, psychological stress, and sleep. The episode concludes with Dr. Ruby providing a sneak peek in to some of his upcoming research efforts.
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Survey Says...
04/21/2020
Survey Says...
In this, the tenth and final podcast of On the Line season three, Patty and her doctoral advisor Dr. Duncan Campbell join host Charlie Palmer to discuss some of her groundbreaking findings, and to chart out a course for future steps.
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Post Traumatic Stress/Growth
03/10/2020
Post Traumatic Stress/Growth
he human brain is the most resilient organ in the body. Yet, even it is susceptible to harm, not only from outside physical sources, but from internal mechanisms as well. Due to the nature of the work they do, wildland firefighters can be exposed to traumatic events. These incidents may have an impact upon our mental and behavioral health.
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“Firefighters are Burning Out”
02/11/2020
“Firefighters are Burning Out”
Tune in for this special Season 3 bonus podcast when journalist Ali Pattillo joins the program to discuss her recent article regarding wildland firefighter mental health with host Charlie Palmer and cohost Brent Ruby.
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Ibuprofen
01/21/2020
Ibuprofen
A member of the class of medications known as nonsteroidal anti-inflammatory drugs (NSAIDS), is one of the most widely used over the counter medications in the world. It is quite effective for treating pain, reducing fever, and lessening inflammation in the body.
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Athletic Training
11/13/2019
Athletic Training
Athletic trainers (AT’s) are health care professionals who specialize in the prevention and care of injuries. While they’re a familiar presence in sporting environments, they do not have a large footprint working with tactical populations. Although the U. S. military has begun to hire more of them, wildland fire has not followed suit. Yet. Dr. Valerie Moody from the University of Montana Athletic Training Education Program and Athletic Trainer Bella Callis join the podcast to talk about the profession.
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Mountain Pine Beetle
10/28/2019
Mountain Pine Beetle
Although only about the size of a mouse turd, Dendroctonus ponderosae, also known as the Mountain Pine Beetle, has been responsible for what is being called the largest insect blight ever recorded in North America. Millions and millions of trees have been killed through infestation, which has led to massive forest ecosystem changes. Dr. Diana Six from the University of Montana’s joins the podcast to share her world renowned expertise about this fascinating creature.
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Sack Lunches
08/20/2019
Sack Lunches
19th Century American bars would often times offer a “free lunch” as an attempt to entice drinking customers in to their establishments. The catch was that patrons usually had to purchase at least one drink, and often times the foods served were high in salt content, thus leading to more thirst and higher beer sales. In response, economists of the era created there ain’t no such thing as a free lunch. Wildland fire has its own version of the free lunch.
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Drones
07/09/2019
Drones
After the podcast episode “Smart and Smarter” came out during Season 2 of On The Line (with guest Drs. LLoyd Queen and Carl Seielstad) firefighter/scientist Casey Teske provided us with some awesome feedback when she suggested we also talk with the guys about drones. Casey, thanks for the great idea! We got one of them (Carl) along with another National Center for Landscape Fire Analysis employee, the uber talented Tim Wallace, to tell us about drones...
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Running
06/26/2019
Running
Running. It’s part of the fire culture. Whether it’s to stay in shape, to prepare for the pack test, or just for enjoyment, firefighters run, and far. Yet, how well does running translate to the specific job duties of the wildland firefighter, and what are some strategies for running injury-free?University of Montana professors Matt Bundle and Chuck Dumke join the podcast to answer these questions, and many others. Check it out!
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The Other Half
06/11/2019
The Other Half
Relationships are tough enough as it is to maintain successfully. With wildland firefighters, factors like unpredictable work schedules, absences, and communication challenges due to remote work environments can complicate matters even more. And yet, beside many firefighters stand strong, resilient partners who are able to successfully navigate these challenges. Smokejumper wives Korey Wolferman and Tobi Kearns join the podcast to talk about what life is like for “the other half.”
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Transitions
05/28/2019
Transitions
Transitions can be a challenging time, whether they be when a fire is changing classification type, or when firefighters are moving into retirement. Recently retired Missoula Smokejumpers Mitch Kearns and Keith “Skid” Wolferman join the podcast to talk about how the retirement process went for them. They also weigh in on mentoring and leadership, and Skid brings listeners up to speed on his upcoming D-Day re-enactment jump into Normandy.
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CISM
10/18/2018
CISM
This is it, the tenth and final podcast of Season 2. Critical Incident Stress Management, or CISM, is a process designed for helping those who have experienced traumatic events be able to share their perspectives with others, learn about common stress reactions, express emotions, and obtain information about follow up assistance that might be available. Heath Cota from the Forest Service and Asad Rahman from the BLM join the podcast to share their perspectives about CISM.
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Senator Jon Tester
10/02/2018
Senator Jon Tester
After a somewhat lengthy Season 2 hiatus, “On The Line” is back with a brand new podcast. United States Senator Jon Tester from the state of Montana joins the program from Washington, D. C. to talk about the importance of funding for wildland fire, what is happening right now in DC that might be relevant to firefighters, and how those of us involved in wildland fire can better work together to support the health and safety of our nation’s first responders.
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Jose's Bag 2.0
08/17/2018
Jose's Bag 2.0
The original Jose’s Bag podcast had such stellar and rave reviews (fake news?), that we are back with another installment. In Jose’s Bag 2.0, Luke Alford from the University of Montana’s Health and Human Performance Department steps in for Jose, and he is joined by host Charlie Palmer and UM exercise physiologist/sport nutritionist Dr. Chuck Dumke to examine and discuss four items: coffee, Copenhagen, Vitamin C, and coconut oil.
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Smart and Smarter
07/31/2018
Smart and Smarter
Prodigious friends Drs. LLoyd Queen and Carl Seielstad from UM’s National Center for Landscape Fire Analysis stumble across a suitcase full of questions posed to them by podcast host Charlie Palmer. The pair, who live dual lives as both fire scientists and fire managers, have their patience and their brains tested as they contend with Palmer’s at times sophomoric queries.
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Sharkey
07/17/2018
Sharkey
As a wildland firefighter, if you don’t recognize the name Brian Sharkey, you probably should. The author of twelve books, developer of the pack test and work to rest guidelines, and some of the earliest examinations of woodsmoke exposure around, you name the topic and Sharkey probably studied it during his four and a half decades of firefighter research at the University of Montana and with the Forest Service. Professor Emeritus Sharkey joins the podcast, this week.
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Nutrition 2.0
07/03/2018
Nutrition 2.0
Eating the proper foods at the appropriate time is an essential component of recovery, especially for tactical athletes like wildland firefighters. Dr. Brent Ruby from the University of Montana’s Center for Work Physiology and Exercise Metabolism re-joins the podcast for a follow up to his season one pod on nutrition, this one focusing upon post-shift nutrition.
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Jose's Bag
06/19/2018
Jose's Bag
University of Montana Health and Human Performance Department graduate student Jose Pena joins the podcast to discuss over-the-counter, alleged performance-enhancing products. UM sport nutrition professor Chuck Dumke provides research based analysis on what role, if any, they play in helping WLFFs meet the demands of their job.
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Decision Making & Cognitive Function
06/05/2018
Decision Making & Cognitive Function
Wildland firefighting represents a high risk occupation, and exposes those who engage in it to a significant amount of danger and uncertainty. Decision making and cognitive function take on added importance as firefighters attempt to manage these risks. Canadian researcher Dr. Michael Williams-Bell from Durham College joins the podcast, along with Drs. Chuck Dumke and Charlie Palmer from the University of Montana, to discuss recent research they have completed in cognitive function, and what it means.
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Seasonal Alterations
05/21/2018
Seasonal Alterations
Never before have wildland firefighters been assessed for physiological changes over the course of an entire fire season. Until now. Dr. Trey Coker from the University of Alaska Fairbanks teamed up with our own Dr. Brent Ruby to investigate seasonal alterations in a group of firefighters, and their surprising results have led to more questions than answers. Coker and Ruby join the podcast to discuss their research, it’s counter-intuitive findings, and possible directions for future investigations.
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Maclean
10/30/2017
Maclean
Maclean. The name is synonymous with many things: great writing, fishing, and fire to name just a few. On this, the tenth and final episode of season one, author John Maclean joins the podcast, along with University of Montana researcher Brent Ruby and host Charlie Palmer to discuss South Canyon, the history of hotshots, and John’s current book project on the Yarnell Hill fire that killed nineteen Granite Mountain Hotshots.
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Suicide
10/16/2017
Suicide
About 42,000 Americans take their own lives every year. While no known research has looked specifically at suicide prevalence rates within wildland firefighters, it appears to be a major concern within our population. Studies looking at structural firefighters indicate that they are three times more likely to die by suicide than a line of duty death.
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Forty Something Years of Fire: an Interview with Wayne Williams
10/02/2017
Forty Something Years of Fire: an Interview with Wayne Williams
Few people can claim to possess a fire career that spans over four decades. From being a first year firefighter with the California Division of Forestry in the 1970’s, to thirty-four years of smokejumping with the Forest Service, and ending with a final six year run with the Montana Department of Natural Resources and Conservation, Wayne Williams possesses a depth of capabilities and a wealth of knowledge that are unrivaled in the world of wildland fire.
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