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Kiss Corporate Goodbye Network Marketing Interview

Network Marketing Success Skills - Street Smart Wealth

Release Date: 07/15/2020

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Network Marketing Success Skills - Street Smart Wealth

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In this episode, Kim and I talked to Jackie Ulmer of business skills and sales strategist for network marketers. Jackie has been in the network Marketing profession since 1994, and she shares why now, more than any other time in history, is the perfect time to be involved with network Marketing.

 

So Jackie Ulmer is a business skills and sales strategist, specializing and assisting network marketers in mastering their marketing... What to say? Follow-up time, productivity management, and of course, mindset.

 

She launched her first network marketing business in 1994, took her business online in 1999, And quickly catapulted to million dollar earners status.

 

Yes, that is possible with network marketing, she is sold products and services in over 40 countries using exact strategies, she teaches, she now coaches others and how to build a widely successful business and duplicate, and we're gonna give you some information at the end how to connect with her, but you can also go to Street Smart wealth dot com to learn more about Jackie.

 

Jackie Ulmer shares: “Thank you both, it's so thrilling to be here, and I just wanna add on to what you said, not only is it possible, it's probable to become a million dollar earner if you're coachable. And you just simply follow the system, we're gonna talk about some of those.

 

Yep, I love that. And we always start with how you got to where you are, but I wanna sort of start in the middle and go back because you started your first network marketing business in 1994, and it just a... When you were at... And so in 1994, network marketing had sort of a different view point. What was it like building a business in 1994 and then... We'll go back and figure out how you got there.

 

Absolutely. Well, let me just start by saying I was one of the biggest naysayers.

 

I thought network marketing was one of those things that you did when you couldn't get a real job, get... Who know? As they say now. Right.

 

So yeah, it was very different. The Internet didn't exist. There was a lot of negativity associated with it, more than anything around the techniques that many people used to build the network marketing business that involved a lot of secrecy and hiding what it was, and I don't really know why that happened. I don't know who's idea that ever was... It's unfortunate because today, even still, we do have to work sometimes to overcome that, but somebody opens her mind up to educating themselves on what network marketing really is, how the business model works, why it works, and then how to do it. As I've heard before then, you crawl over glass to the residual income, which is what network marketing offers.

 

Absolutely.

 

So let's go back a little bit before network marketing, we know you had regular jobs and we're in the corporate lifestyle, so share a little bit about what you did in the corporate world and how you transitioned in 1994 to that first company.

 

Yeah, absolutely. So I'm one of those rare people probably who absolutely loved what I did, I never was one who was disgruntled with my job, I was in airline Sales and Marketing, and I always say I party for a living, I don't know, I can really get a better top in that, I got to fly around the world in first class on an expense account, why I... And dining corporate travelers and travel agents and really going them over to booking our airline... I have one carnal Roble in the airline in Titus, try and that was do day pilots, and I dated one and 31 plus years later, we're still married.

 

Like many couples do, we decided to start a family, and I was traveling around the world, and he was traveling around the world, and one of us wanted to be home and that was me, so I actually, in 92, the child was born... Who's serving in the US Marine Corps right now.

 

And I made the decision to stay home and like so many people, it's hard to make it on an income, and so I was home, but we were kind of house for... It wasn't a whole lot left at the end of the month And I just have a business mindset, I have a marketing mindset, I've always been entrepreneurial...

 

I started selling Mistletoe door to door when I was 11 years old At Christmas time.  I just always had my finger in something, and so I was looking for a way to make money from home, going to the library, 'cause the internet didn't exist, and I... Interestingly, a few years prior to that, about probably about a year before my son was born, I was approached by someone in the airline industry, someone on a marketing opportunity, and I was literally... Talk to the hand. No things, not interested.

 

Not something I would do and I didn't even look at it. I knew the name of the company, but I didn't look at it. I just wouldn't even let Him show it to me... Well, ask for ward to a year and a half later, my son's born, I'm home, I'm looking for something, and we invite him over for Christmas dinner, and he pulls up in front of my house driving a BMW... I'm not a car person.

 

Still, it wasn't the BMW itself that impressed me, it was the fact that he had a new car, and I knew what he had been driving before, and I knew his debt, and I just knew his story, and I was kind of like the... What's with the car? What's going on?

 

And he said, Oh yeah, my network marketing business, it's doing really well, and I'm only working part-time at the airline now, and... Well, I sat him down right next to me at Christmas dinner and partly let him eat 'cause I kept seeing, so... What is it again?

 

What would I do and what that looks like, and how much money could I make and how much time I have to spend? And you know that I was saying in pretty soon, my husband, then I'm gonna tell my husband and we were like, your worst nightmare, and of course, this was pre internet, so we invited him to come back over the next night and bring everything. He dumped a load of every piece of content, really sure all the com-plan worked. It was a telecom company. Practically how deep the cables were buried... It was crazy.

 

We were like your analytical nightmare, but we got started, and I'd love to tell you we had a fast start, we didn't, but we just kept at it and we were very determined and pretty soon we were his number one leg and growing and growing and growing, and then 1999, I found the internet and took my business online, so that's kind of my start.

 

Kim asks: That’s awesome. And what were some of your early experiences? What are the things that surprise you because you went from NASA to studying and learning the business model, but you can't learn everything, like I always say that in this business, you really have to start to learn, so what were some of your early experiences that sort of took you by surprise, like, Oh, now I'm getting it.

 

Jackie Ulmer shares: Yeah, you don't have to start to learn, and what you learn over time is that there's really very little you need to know, really it truly... It's a people business. You can communicate with people. You can do this business. We get wrapped up in fear of happy to know the answer to every single thing and formality of it is that fear almost never comes to pass, they almost never ask that question, and there's no question that somebody can ask you the Incan find the answer to, but probably the most surprising thing for me at that point was a...

 

I was home going to the park, going to play group, doing all this stuff with my kid, and I thought, Oh my gosh, I have found the golden ticket, I have the golden ticket. This is gonna be so easy for me, 'cause I'm just gonna go tell all my play group moms what I'm doing and how we're gonna get rich at all other stuff, and it's gonna be so easy.

 

And I remember the first, I think, I don't even know how I introduced to some hokey thing that I said, a play group, but I remember one of the mom saying to me, why would I want a job? I'm home.

 

Now, I don't know, I don't wanna go back to work. And that was like, Oh, I wanted to say it, aren't you bored a little bit like manage all... But see, there's a whole another world out there too, so that was shock number one is that I didn't have the super easy, nice with all my play group and stay home moms, and just because they were home didn't mean that they were like me, business-oriented, still, wanting to be home, I never wanted to go back to work. I never wanted to go back to the traditional job, but I wanted my own money and I wanted to make a difference and I wanted to make a lot of men, and back then I was afraid to say that today, especially to women, I'm like, You know what, there's another wrong With enjoying making money, there's nothing wrong with being ambitious, it's a real strong character trait, especially in women.

 

Completely agree.

 

Shari asks: So you touched real briefly on a fear... Can we go back this a little bit because it is scary, and a lot of people have a lot of fears when they start a network marketing business, What fears did you have and what did you encounter with maybe other people spears as well...

 

Jackie Ulmer answers: One of my number one fear, of course, was the stigma of network marketing, because I have that... So just because I shifted and saw the vision it chose to get in the profession, sadly, did not immediately change my thinking and change my mindset, so... And my number one fear was I push... Now, I have to tell people, I'm in one of those... You know what, I bet I had to open that door at some point, so that was fear number one, and then fear number two was really struggling with what to say in a way that didn't sound salesy, 'cause you know, you've probably heard, Well, I don't wanna sell all my family of friends, you know the whole sales kind of thing, so even though I was in sales and marketing in the airline in street, it was different. I never had to ask somebody buy a ticket or...

 

I never had to ask for the sale. You would, if you were a real estate agent or selling a water filter system or something like that, where... At some point, you have to actually ask for the sale.

 

So I didn't have strong selling skills in terms of that type thing, so I... That list, my number two fear was sounding stupid, feeling stupid, feeling sales-y, and anything I learned that it's not that hard to learn good language to share with people what you do and see who leans in.

 

Kim Says: I think for me, when I started, I was a huge nice... Say I said no to Sherry for month, and I didn't want to be one of those people too. I had the exact same thing, I was like, what are people gonna think? I went from this pretty high profile job on how a network marketing, and I had the... Getting over that, and one of the things that I just learned was more I started... The more I took action, the more I took activity, the more excited I got, but I also... You were... Talk about there is verbiage to use.

 

I'm gonna follow the system because there's a system that what every great company has the system, they do, so I'm gonna follow this and I started to build my belief once I started to see the system working. And like you said, I think it's how you approach it, but I think that's with any business, it's how you're presenting yourself, how you're approaching things, how you're talking to people, it's all about communication.

 

Absolutely, it's so true. And it's so funny, we talk about belief, and I don't wanna be cliche, 'cause many of the listeners have heard this, and I know both of you have, but it's like We have belief that if we go to college for four years or five and we pay a ton of money that at the end of it, we're gonna come out with a piece of paper that's gonna guarantee us a job, which it really does in curates is that piece of paper and a lot of debt doesn't necessarily guarantee us a job or whatever, and then we join or launch and network marketing business, and when we don't make a million dollars at the end of the first month, we say, Oh, this doesn't work, but... So it's kind of like, what if we committed to the learning process that it takes knowing that we will get paid on the job, if you will, as we're learning, if we just get out there and start taking action and learning and getting our training wills going and then taking the training, those off and writing the bite, you know, and figuring it out. And that's really the key to it.

 

So let's go back a little bit in 1994, 1999. you started two different network marketing companies and... Or no, the same company. You just went online. Okay, in company. Just to go online.

 

Yeah, and then as you started getting into your business and learning new strategies and really getting excited about all the marketing and that, being able to go online... Where did that shift happen? For you to take you from where you are then to where you are now. Really the expert in social media, as the expert in building online marketing, all those strategies that you learned when the internet was just coming out to now... Yeah, and it's kind of interesting, so to back that up, albeit, I was...

 

I was nearly six years, 'cause it was October of 99 when I took my business online, my biggest fear was I 20 dating myself there too, so I don't remember... Some of you may not. That was gonna wipe out everything, so I thought all this work I'd done on this Leste, that's gonna be gone tomorrow, but it didn't... And we're also here today, and now we're all online because we can't leave our homes or were... As we're recording this during the great pandemic of 2020.Yeah, so it was interesting to... So I had built online for nearly six years, I had overcome my doubt, I had a team of over 10000, so I had a business, and I had overcome the mindset shift that I really needed to...

 

I had long ago let go of the... What if it's in LA or... Is that a permit? I'd let go of all of that, so I came into building online with a solid set of business skills already, and I knew what it took to build a network marketing business to contact people to follow up, to be very systematic. I had learned all that I... That came with me when I went online.

 

So it's interesting. And this was before social media. Obviously, YouTube exist Facebook, Instagram, none of those existed, Blogging wasn't a thing, it was a bit of a different world, but still the vision that I caught was that it can put me out there and it could leverage my time, just like we're doing right now, the three of us are leveraging our time because the 30 minutes to an hour that we've been doing this and having this conversation, we spend one time, and it's gonna go out on the podcast, it's gonna go out on YouTube, I'm gonna push it out to my followers, you're gonna push it out to your followers, some of those followers are gonna push it out to other people, I taught the power of leverage, and that word is so powerful, we create leverage in network marketing, we build a team and we get paid, not only on our own efforts, but the efforts of others, and we create leverage to catapult that when we use the tools of digital marketing and social media and all the platforms that are out there to build ourselves, build our brand, build our presence out there, so that we attract those people who are right? For what we offer, so those two concepts of leverage were really big, so I just caught the power of creating content to put myself out there, I never sold my opportunity, I never mentioned the name of my company, I never talked about compensation plans, I never talked about any of that, I sold lifestyle, I sold vision. I sold my ability to be a more... Be at home, have a business ultimately out earn my pilot husband and still be at the PTA meeting, still be the room mom. Still be the hockey driving mom, the tennis driving mom, still be home every night to put dinner on the table, to go on vacation and have my business grow to be on the beach and have my business scope to be sleeping and how my business grow... So those things all came together in a very powerful way.

 

I wanna talk about leverage, 'cause this was the biggest thing for me to be able to clip my job, I knew that I wasn't going to be a rockstar and get residual income from royalties from my music. I knew that I probably wasn't gonna be a TV star and get paid on my reruns... Right. The cast of friends.

 

And so I was like, How am I going to earn an income when I'm not working, how am I gonna have that residual income? And another stream of income. How can I leverage my time? All these things were important to me. And then I think now, more than ever, as we are in this pandemic, if you're listening to it, then it's so important to have another stream of income, it's so important to have a plan B, and I think now more than ever, when people see that this business is a way to leverage time, it is a game changer for people and why? Now, I know that you've been seeing a lot of growth and network marketing to... You're an expert. So what have you seen? That this time, 20-20 is really the time for network marketing...

 

Oh, oh my gosh. Well, first, let me just say I went through 200 in t911, 2001 in a business and a recession, if you will, now, maybe it's the actor, Tim, but when people were freaked out, the economy tanked, people lost jobs, still part of the early industry with my husband, we all know what happened in the airline industry during that time, so that was... 911 would do that with... Through the recession of 0809. and let me just tell you, my business thrive during those times, my business absolutely thrive during these times because I had built that leverage and I had build the asset of having content out on the internet, so that by the time those things came on, people were going to the internet and searching. home-based business. What's a good home base as a, how can I work from home?

 

What are businesses I can run from home, all the different things that you can think of, all of those things really a pike... During times like these, and they're spiking again today with the pandemic because... And people are fearful for a lot of things, so I sat... They're fearful because they lost a job, they've lost income, they're worried about losing a job, we all know what's coming in September, it's no mystery that once the... The checks and balances in place for companies that took loans into all the different stuff that stimulus package, all of that. We know that they're layco.

 

I know in the airline industry, I know inside, just from what we're seeing, and I know it's coming, I know it's coming, and it's not just the early an industry, it's going to happen, and I don't need to be a Dom say at all.

 

It's like anything, you can look at that and put your head in the sand, or you can look at that and say, This is opportunity, and the beauty of our opportunity is that we offer a win, went... We offer a win for the person who's scared, who's fearful, so maybe doesn't wanna go back to work either because they're fearful of that health issues with cover 19 and some of that... We have people who have a compromised health, so they've got those issues too, there are so many things out there that need us to this point where you really have the opportunity to create such a win for the person who you're willing to share the gift of... What we offer in a network marketing, whether or not they take it, that's totally up to them, but you have an obligation to... If you have a network, more getting opportunity to share the benefits and share the potential with those people who are out there looking... So it is in A... And it's an opportunity on a world-wide basis, this is the first time we really ever had this 911 that was local in the US recession of 2008, 2009. yeah, there were some other economies that were affected, but I had a global business at that point, and I had people in other countries, we didn't even know what I was talking about, what I talked to, what was going on in your... The US with this particular thing. It is across the globe. So if you have a global opportunity, but a lot being get busy, seriously.

 

So can you just share a few of the tools that you have developed to help people with their network marketing businesses, someone taking a listen and they're like, Okay, maybe I'll take a look, I'm gonna put those doubts aside and just take a look.

 

What is the first thing that you would tell somebody to do, or what advice would you give them that they're thinking... Maybe they're in corporate, they're gonna keep their corporate job as long as they have it, but they really do want that plan B, so what kind of advice, what kind of plans do you provide for people?

 

Yeah, absolutely. So, of course is we hear, and I've heard in the past and starts with wide given not to be super cliche, and my dogs walking through not to be super cliche. But it does start with, why do you wanna do this? And is that why Bing and burning and enough to move you forward and then we have to...

 

I want it. It is.

 

How many people think that, Well, I can't do this because I have another job.

 

Almost everybody who makes a success in network marketing had a full-time job when they started their network marketing business, so they just learned to prioritize their time and make the time and make it matter that they had to put toward a business. So there's nothing unique about anybody who's working a job already and wondering if they have the ability to do it, it's just really committing to that, and then it's really finding that company starts with maybe making a list of what our values are, what matters to you, are you help an... Well, as oriented, are you natural product or in what are those things that really matter to you, who have you spoken with in the past, who share something with you that may be peer interest, but you weren't really sure, and then open up that conversation with them again, and more about what it really looks like, what it really takes, and what it's going to require a view to not only work the business, but to get paid in the business and understand that now, if they're already with the network marketing company, revisit what the systems and tools are that your company has in place for you, so then you can do just like what Kim said, Follow the cister, what's the system that's already in place? That's proven over and over again that the people at the top are using and that they used to get there, and then they want to share and teach you and help you master so that you can do that.

 

Now, that's timeless. Those few things that I've shared it there a time is nothing new that I came up with with, the only thing that I did, it was different than what a lot of people have done and do is leveraging the tools of the internet.

 

So like we're talking about, how can you begin to build your system to the content out on YouTube, how do you share out of Facebook in way that's not all about by my product, by my product, by my product, you're building a brand, you're building an asset, you're building a tribe in an audience of people who attract to you for some reason, and you're applying the person who you sign up with, your sponsor, the company, they can help walking through a lot of those tools and trainings and tips on really have to do that.

 

And then I have a mental... I have a... A little, I have to give you on some scripting success language as I like to call it, and I always say, Put this in your own words, you don't wanna read a script or Batam, but it's really designed for anybody who is currently working their network marketing business or anybody just getting started to teach you how to re-engage with people you've spoken with in the past, who said no, or maybe said nothing... We have a lot of those. They never really answered. So we assumed it was a no.

 

We are now open and looking, they may have forgotten that you have had a conversation with them, but now is a great time to re-engage them and to re-engage them in a way that feels very often it... It's very upfront why reaching back out to them and is not off-putting because it kind of uses a third party approach and it feels comfortable to you, the person sharing it, 'cause you don't feel like you're getting into sales mode or anything like that, it also... How to engage those people, how to open that conversation with people who you haven't had the opportunity to share with what you're doing again, in a way that addresses what's going on in the current environment, addresses the fact that they may be one of those people who's been affected, but surely, they know some people who have been affected, so that's really what it's designed to do, is teach some skills, some basic skills to begin to open that conversation and then let it evolve to the system that the company offers to share exactly what it is.

 

And how it all works.

 

I love that because I think there are so many misconceptions about the industry, and there's people... It just... In every industry, there's people who do a great job and people who don't do a great job, and one of the things when I the was looking at this and when I was starting, I really didn't believe that I could make a good income, and I know that there's a lot of people who are in corporate that they feel tracked with those gold in the handouts because they're making a good living.

 

What are some of the things that you would say to those people, just to open their eyes that this might be a viable vehicle or a pathway for them, because I think that is a big thing. For people to take that leap of faith. It was for me, just, I don't think I can make the same kind of income I could make here. What kind of things would you share with somebody who might not see this as the way out for a way to build an asset?

 

Well, first of all, open your mind up to be willing to educate yourself, which is what I do in all the many years ago, educate yourself on what you think network marketing is, what you think the income potential is, and what it truly is, and I mean be on The High and the y stuff that you may see out on the internet, find the real true stories that are on the internet. I know both of you have great stories and you have great other resources of other people with great stories that you can share those testimonials, you can share those stories, and the beauty of the internet today, you can actually find those people, they're not just a made-up name and I made up face and made up story, there are real live, breathing human beans every day that have left not only corporate jobs, but six and seven-figure corporate jobs to focus on the time and financial freedom that they can get with network marketing. Is she, like you said, and I like you both to be... Corporate America most often keeps us in hand cast, you may earn a great salary, I just... We actually just had a couple over for dinner last night, and they were talking about their daughter who earns 250 year, has a great hard to all these works that she has, but she has a house, two twin boys, who she never sees... She hardly ever sees it, she travels a lot, so she then got the Great House, they've got all the toys, they have, all of that, but she doesn't own her life, she doesn't own the time freedom, and I don't say that to beat anybody else who chooses that, as their course, that's rabbits. Life is about choice and those kind of freedoms, but I fear that person who's looking at that and saying, Yeah, this is great, but I have... There's some freedoms that I'm missing out on, know that it is possible to have both of them.

 

Nobody's gonna tell you that it's gonna happen overnight.

 

If somebody told you that they kind of sold you a billing data, that's really, truly... Because we know that in any situation, most of us don't get to a six-figure corporate job over it either, there's certainly those exceptions, but for the most part, it's about doing the steps that take you up there.

 

The beauty of network marketing is it is such a simple business, not always easy, 'cause our mind gets in the way... Our thoughts get in the way. But it's very simple.

 

The roach is success.

 

I always say this is sexy, the road to success, not so much, but it's chamberin and repeat shampoo, Reno, repeat. That's what we do, we have a system in place.

 

All of the system commit to it consistently over time and build that leverage tool.

 

Absolutely.

 

So one of the questions that we always like to ask is, because of Network Marketing, how has your life changed?

 

Oh my gosh, it's funny, when I started in the network marketing really and truly it was about my money, I'll just be on a students about the money, I wanted more money for my family, I wanted the achievement of more money from home.

 

I see, one of the reasons that I truly that I made at network marketing is because I wanted to be part of the 1 half of 1% that hit a certain income level instead of in the bigger number or hard... I don't wanted to be one of those, I was just really determined, and so I was stubborn and committed to doing that, but when it was done, the greatest thing for me was the achievement of it, of knowing that it's something that I did.

 

I did all my own, I had to fall off the bike and skin my knees and give back up and cry a little bit, get back on the bike and keep pedaling and it's peaks and valleys. But success in anything is peaks and valleys, I don't care what your career is, I really don't mean I talk about me from the airline industry, went the tail... And my husband retires in August, and we are so grateful. He is getting out.

 

But you talk about piso valleys and ups and downs unintended in the early industry, it's been fabulous in so many ways, it alone is provided a great lifestyle for us, but it also has been filled with a lot of fearful times and worries about this and really get for one, with a company. Stay in business now. What next to those type things.

 

So the greatest thing is it changed my life, it changed my family's life, it really allowed me to have it all... I still say I have a pinch new business, it really allowed me to have it all, and it mostly allowed me to have it all at the same time, and you can't say that about very many things, and I know my children today at 20, almost 28, 25, they're grateful for it. They talk about it all the time, how grateful they are that I was willing to do what it took because they didn't did it when they were little, and sometimes, especially as moms, we struggle with that thinking, Oh, I feel guilty when I'm working my business and not with my kids, and then I feel guilty when I'm not working my business and I am with my kids, it's like this constant whatever, when they're little, they may get frustrated that you... But when you do it and you provide a great lifestyle, and then you are there for them 100% of the time when they really truly need it, that's what they remember.

 

That's absolutely what they remember. So it's the experience of having done, I guess. The money is great. It's helping other people. It's really... No, I mean for me, my passion is still moms because I know what it meant for me to not have to put my kids in daycare, to not have to struggle with that, to not have to try to find somebody who can pick one of them up from school, if they got sick during the day, it's not having to choose between being the tennis mom, driver red back to listen to all the gossip and everything that was going on with the girls at that age, all that type stuff. So it's really the experiences and the life. So that have met more than anything in a world, and I think you said something super important that I don't think most people realize, and that is, this is a business and there're so few out there that you get to make a huge impact on your life, but you also get to make a huge impact on other peoples, like the ripple effect in this business is something that you can't even really comprehend until you start to build a business and see the culture and the community, and what your business can then do to help other people then start this amazing chain effect, like you said, rents, repeat, and I keep thinking, now we're all gonna be really dated, so half of our TIS is gonna know, but I keep thinking of that commercial and so on and so on, and... Right, and so to... And that truly, I think, is the power of building an asset, making an impact for your family, but truly being able to make an impact on so many other people that you committing to building a business, so... But I'm sure there's lots of people out there who are thinking you because you have changed their lives and had such an impact, so thank you for saying yes and taking a chance in doing this business and for now coaching so many other people so that they can have the same type of success.

 

I seriously got goosebumps when you shared that about the ability that you have to affect otherwise, and there's a great quote in that as we plant a tree that grows up and create shade for people will never know, and I love that cool. Because it sums up so well in what we do to a network marketing.

 

I love that too. And so how can people find you?

 

Yeah, absolutely. So my main website is https://streetsmartwealth.com  and if you go to https://StreetSmartwealth.com/openscripts

 

And you can get my success scripts during tough times, it's a little PDF that'll walk you through some scripts to say, make it a little list, brainstorm did you speak to before, what did they say, and give you some ideas for re-open that conversation. If you've had it and how to open that conversation for the first time, if you haven't... And I have a feeling that PDF is going to be opened and opened an open who's over and over because that is one of the abilities, it sounds... That's one of the most difficult things about network marketing, it's just knowing what to say, when to saying how to say it, and the fact that you have already done this work for people is gonna be a huge blessing to a lot of people who are listening or watching, and we will have that in our show notes for people to click on that link and to get connected to you as time.

 

So thank you, Jackie, we love you, we can't wait to non-social distance, see you, we can't wait to share all of this great information with our listeners, so thanks so much, thank you