Reconsidering John Calvin: A Conversation with Ruben Rosario Rodriguez

This is Episode Ten of Season Three, featuring Dr. Ruben Rosario Rodriguez, the Clarence Louis and Helen Steber Professor in Theological Studies at St. Louis University. He holds a Ph.D. in Systematic Theology from Princeton Theological Seminary (2004). Dr. Rodriguez is also a Presbyterian minister. 

Ruben is also an expert in the work of John Calvin, the divisive 16^th century reformer from France who became a major figure in Geneva during the Reformation of the 16^th century. Today we are discussing his book Calvin for the World: The Enduring Relevance of His Political, Social, and Economic Theology.  As I mentioned, Calvin is divisive, for some people a hated figure, often based upon his view of double predestination, that is, God's absolute sovereignty in the salvation or damnation of the human soul and his role in the death of Michael Servetus. Ruben’s book is an attempt to give a fuller representation of who Calvin is and what he actually says.

I invited Ruben on not just because we share a great love for 70s punk rock, the Ramones, Tom Verlaine, and many others, but because I heard he had taped a podcast with a Calvinist leaning podcast that then reneged on posting the podcast, perhaps because of certain theological disagreements. That did sit right with me: this podcast is about asking questions and getting to know people and what matters most to them. We do not have to share all of our beliefs in common to befriend each other or to listen to each other. I enjoyed our conversation and I really enjoy Dr. Rodriguez’s honesty and integrity as a person and as a theologian.

I knew little about John Calvin prior to my conversation with Ruben, but I know a lot more now, even if I am only scratching the surface and though I am no Calvinist. But it is good to get to know people better, especially historical figures who have shaped our world and our thought in ways perhaps even unknown to us, and especially figures who often just function as stereotypes in our thoughts. For me his book fulfilled its major stated goal: “to correct many of the misconceptions about Calvin perpetuated by an inadequate knowledge of his work.”

Others more expert in Calvinism than me will know more about many of the issues Ruben and I discussed, but I appreciated his book and its consideration Calvin’s Theology of Public Life and how his analysis of Psalm 82:3-4 “fits” with a preferential option for the poor and liberation theology; though I’m still not sure why Calvin does not think it proper to topple tyrannical governments, Ruben presented Calvin’s view of “two kingdoms” as an argument for seeing Calvin as a proto-liberationist with respect to illegitimate governments that act contrary to the word of God. I appreciated the connections between liberation theology, Archbishop Romero, and Calvin’s theology of civil governance.

I was also intrigued by Calvin’s desired “egalitarian communal structure” and his rejection of “authoritarian absolutism in either the Church or the State” and Ruben’s argument that Calvin could be seen in favor of religious toleration.

Ruben also offered an interesting comparison between Bartolomeo de Las Casas and Calvin with respect to treatment of indigenous people and others. It’s an interesting point, as later in South Africa Calvinism played a role in the building of the apartheid state of South Africa. Yet, Ruben argues and shows the ways in which Calvin’s thought also inspired resistance to white Christian nationalism. The events in Sharpeville and especially Soweto emerged from African Christians in the movement to take down apartheid. Alan Boesak, the African Calvinist church leader, enlisted Calvin theologically to argue white supremacy in Christianity and the apartheid state. This resulted in the Belhar Confession, linked here, which stood resolutely against apartheid. 

And now some news on upcoming podcast episodes:

Coming up next is Dr. Gerald Schlabach on his new book, A Pilgrim People: Becoming a Catholic Peace Church, Dr. Don Baker, and Dr. Tim Pawl.

Three episodes of Pop Culture Matters are out. I hope you enjoyed the conversation Martin and I had on Christmas films.  What’s up next for Pop Culture Matters? We are considering the wonderful and recently ended HBO series Somebody Somewhere, a show which perhaps surprisingly has church as an integral part of its world.

Let us know what you want to discuss next on Pop Culture Matters. Follow us at our Instagram page, @stmarkscce, newly revived, and drop us a line as to what you want to see or hear. Or email us with your suggestions to [e-mail] or [e-mail].

Some upcoming events:

You can now register for The Promise of Christian Education: Past, Present and Future, MAY 1-3, 2025, at ST. MARK'S COLLEGE, VANCOUVER, CANADA. We will have over 40 presenters from Asia, Africa, and North America. The webpage for the conference is now available at the CCE website, where you can find information on the speakers and where you can register for The Promise of Christian Education: Past, Present and Future, MAY 1-3, 2025, at ST. MARK'S COLLEGE, VANCOUVER, CANADA.

Consider joining us in Vancouver in 2025 for the conference. The cost will be minimal to attend the concurrent sessions of the conference itself, only $60 and I think you will find it stimulating and challenging. It will be exciting. The link takes you to the conference website and you can find a registration link there. 

Three confirmed keynote speakers are Dr. Margaret MacDonald, Dr. Samuel Rocha, and Reverend Dr. Stan Chu Ilo. These keynote or plenary sessions are free for all, so look for the registration information on our website now.

 Some other upcoming events:

On January 27, 2025, we will have an in person and virtual event with Dr Ray Aldred, who will offer the third annual Laudato Si’ lecture, bringing together Indigenous and Christian thought on how to care for creation, our common home. Register here.

On February 10, 2025, Dr. Michael Higgins will be speaking about his new biography of Pope Francis called the Jesuit Disruptor. Register here.

On March 3, 2025, Father Andrew Laguna S.J. will be offering our annual Jesuit Lecture on Immigration and Ignatian Spiritual Discernment.

A few thanks are in order. First of all, I am grateful to Martin Strong, who guides me in the podcasting world. Second, the episodes are edited, engineered, and produced by Kevin Eng who is the first listener to all the episodes and helps me pick out those opening snippets which do so much to set the tone for each episode. Thank you, Kevin, for all of your expertise and support. Finally, to the Fang Fang Chandra, the CCE assistant, who helps me bring this podcast to you, but also makes the CCE run so much more smoothly.

I also want to thank our donors to the Centre, whose generosity enables this work to take place at all: Peter Bull, Angus Reid, and Andy Szocs. We are thankful to their commitment to the life of the academic world and of the work of the Church in the world by funding the work of the CCE. I am also thankful to the Cullen family, Mark and Barbara, for their support of the ongoing work of the CCE through financial donations that allow us to bring speakers to the local and international arenas.

If you are enjoying the podcast, please let your friends know. It’s the free gift that you can give to all of your friends! And also let people know by rating and reviewing What Matters Most on your favourite podcasting platform. And subscribe to the podcast. If you are listening, please subscribe. It’s free!

Thanks again for listening and remember what matters most.   

John W. Martens

Director, Centre for Christian Engagement, St. Mark's College at UBC