A Path to Becoming like God: A Conversation with Dr Paul Gavrilyuk

Sorry for the lateness on this incredible episode! The busy-ness of preparing for the conference and working on a few academic papers led to a two day delay. But this is a long episode and Paul and I had a terrific conversation, so I hope that makes up for some of my tardiness!

 

This is episode fourteen of season three with Dr. Paul Gavrilyuk, Professor and Aquinas Chair in Theology and Philosophy at the University of St. Thomas in St. Paul, Minnesota.  He has been published in nine languages, and his books include The Suffering of the Impassible God (Oxford, 2004), Histoire du catéchuménat dans l’église ancienne(Cerf, 2007), The Spiritual Senses: Perceiving God in Western Christianity (co-edited with Sarah Coakley, Cambridge, 2012) and Georges Florovsky and the Russian Religious Renaissance (Oxford, 2014). 

Paul is also a founder of IOTA, the International Orthodox Theological Association, and of Rebuild Ukraine, a humanitarian organization that raises money for Ukraine’s defenders, civilians, and refugees. 

Paul is a notable theologian, but as you will hear in this episode he was born in Kiev and educated in the Soviet Union, which was not in the habit of producing a lot of theologians in the 20^th century. Paul talks about his conversion experience, his move to the US to study theology, and the realities of authoritarian governments, that he grew up under and which are expanding today. We also discuss his remarkable new Oxford Handbook of Deification, of which he is one of three editors.   

Paul Gavrilyuk is an incredible theologian, prolific and learned, and a dear friend. We traveled together through Greece and Turkey teaching early Christianity to 25 undergraduate students many years ago and have shared so many hours at conferences, in classrooms, learning together and simply being together. What a delight to spend this time together again.

For me, the most impressive part of Paul’s story, though, is his incredible journey from the Soviet Union to the Church and to an internationally renowned theologian. His story of conversion and the acts of bravery necessary by him and by others to bring his vocation to fruition are humbling. We are in a time of creeping, perhaps moving faster than that now, authoritarianism, and acts of bravery might be essential for us to continue to build a world of concern for all, but especially for those in the most need of support.

Paul’s work with Rebuild Ukraine does just that – it cares for those impacted by the senseless war of Putin against the people of Ukraine. This is not a distant war to Paul and his family, it is a war against his home. 

Why talk about theology during a time of rising autocracy and oligarchy around the world? While it can be misused for bitter an cruel ends, theology is what sustains so many during times of crisis, war, and persecution. It keeps our minds on what matters most. It reminds us that war is a failure brought on by men who seek power, money, and fame. It is not what sustains us, it is what creates hate and begets cruelty.

Paul’s research on theosis or deification points us to our true goal: love of neighbour, love of God, and the hope of life in the presence of God, becoming more and more like God. And what it is to become more and more like God says the Apostle Paul is love. And what love creates on earth are the fruits of the Spirit: Galatians 5:22-23 defines the person who is living in accordance with the Holy Spirit as showing these fruits: love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, and self-control. When you are lost in a sea of disinformation and people trying to create hatred against one another, ask yourself this? Where do I see the fruits of the spirit?

What Matters Most is produced by the Centre for Christian Engagement at St Mark’s College, the Catholic college at UBC. The CCE is a centre at St. Mark’s College that explores the Christian and Catholic intellectual tradition and seek to learn from others, other Christians, members of other religious traditions, and from those who do not claim any particular or formal religious affiliation. Our goal, then, is to talk to a lot of people, to learn from them, to listen to them, and to find out what motivates them, what gives them hope, what gives them peace, and what allows them to go out into the world to love their neighbors.

And now some news on upcoming podcast episodes:

Coming up next is Dr. Tim Pawl, a philosopher, on virtue, and then Dr. Minelle Mahtani of UBC on growing up in Canada with a Muslim and a Hindu parent, and then Dr Paula Fredriksen, one of the great scholars on early Christianity and Judaism.

Let us know what you want to discuss next on Pop Culture Matters. Follow us at our Instagram page, @stmarkscce, newly revived, and drop us a line as to what you want to see or hear. Or email us with your suggestions to [e-mail] or [e-mail].

Some upcoming events:

We have a webinar with Fr. Jim Martin on April 7 at 5 pm PCT. Building Bridges: Reaching Out to Those on the Margins.

Is there a place for all people in the Catholic Church? How can everyone feel welcomed and experience God's love in their lives?

Register on Eventbrite now!

The Promise of Christian Education: Past, Present and Future, MAY 1-3, 2025, at ST. MARK'S COLLEGE, VANCOUVER, CANADA. You can find all the information on the speakers and the program on the CCE website. Click here to register.

The cost for the whole conference is minimal and the three keynote speakers are free, but you do need to register for Dr. Margaret MacDonald, Dr. Samuel Rocha, and Reverend Dr. Stan Chu Ilo.

Past events:

Father Andrew Laguna S.J.'s annual Jesuit Lecture on Immigration and Ignatian Spiritual Discernment is available on You Tube now.

Dr Ray Aldred's third annual Laudato Si’ lecture, bringing together Indigenous and Christian thought on how to care for creation, is available on You Tube.

Dr. Michael Higgins lecture on The Monk and the Pope is now on You Tube.

A few thanks are in order. To Martin Strong, to Kevin Eng, and to Fang Fang Chandra, the team who helps me bring this podcast to you, but also makes the CCE run so much more smoothly.

I also want to thank our donors to the Centre, whose generosity enables this work to take place at all: Peter Bull, Angus Reid, and Andy Szocs. We are thankful to their commitment to the life of the academic world and of the work of the Church in the world by funding the work of the CCE. I am also thankful to the Cullen family, Mark and Barbara, for their support of the ongoing work of the CCE through financial donations that allow us to bring speakers to the local and international arenas.

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Thanks again for listening and remember what matters most.   

 Dr. John W. Martens