#15: Sustainable Living Discussion with Paul and Sarah

Denise Haynes:                     Welcome everyone. I'm Denise Haynes from R & R Property. Today I'm interviewing Paul and Sarah Chambers on R & R Property's podcast number 15. Paul and Sarah are living in a shipping container home which Paul built himself. Hi Sarah and Paul.

Sarah Chambers:                 Hi Denise.

Paul Chambers:                   Hello.

Denise Haynes:                     Congratulations. Now, you guys are a YouTube sensation and have also written two highly successful eBooks called, 'How to build a shipping container house'. It all started when Paul was offered a career move in 2005 from Scotland to Australia.

Paul Chambers:                   Yes definitely. It started a big adventure.

Denise Haynes:                     You went off on a new adventure in your life and initially you were living in suburban Australia. Sarah, I understand that you then initiated the move to a rural area of Booral. Can you tell me what fuelled that decision?

Sarah Chambers:                 When we were living in Scotland we lived in the Highlands and we lived in the middle of nowhere basically. We'd been living in that location for 20 years. When we originally got to Australia in 2005, it was a bit of a culture shock.

Paul Chambers:                   I've never seen houses where the roof lines are nearly touching. That puts your neighbours in very close proximity.

Denise Haynes:                     It sure does. Now Paul, you had a little sideline project of building shipping container accommodation located on friend's farm. Where did that idea come from?

Paul Chambers:                   Either myself or myself and a friend thought we'd conceived the idea of using a shipping container house, but I think the idea is actually as old as the hills. It's just that some people stumbled across it for the first time.

Sarah Chambers:                 We were very interested in sustainable living and basically getting out of the system. There were several options that we looked at that we could do this with, but shipping containers seemed to be a structurally sound option.

Paul Chambers:                   It's a nice standing start and my idea was to build something, and I didn't know what it would be, that was sustainable. Sustainability was what I like. I like the concept of solar power, collecting drinking water and we'd been introduced to the composting toilets. I thought that sounded fabulous but what I didn't know was, was that realistic for someone like me to actually pull off, so I was experimenting.

Denise Haynes:                     Once you had sold your home in the city area, you decided to relocate using your half started shipping container home to live in.

Paul Chambers:                   Yes. I came home one day and Sarah said, "I've put the house on the market. I've called in your promise that we can move out of suburbagatory." Which is what Sarah called it.

Denise Haynes:                     That's a great name for it. Tell me, is the project finished now and how long has it taken you to get to this point and under what circumstances have you had to do it in? For example, do you work?

Paul Chambers:                   I work full time. I'm an engineer and I've got a full time job. Sarah works full time but she's got a variety of careers.

Sarah Chambers:                 This is going into our 6th year of being in Booral and it's taken that long because we have both been working. Paul initially obviously had to start off just working on weekends. He didn't stop for five years.

Paul Chambers:                   No, for three years it was just continuous. That's because I was working full time. That got us to viable-

Sarah Chambers:                 Well we didn't have a bathroom for three years.

Denise Haynes:                     Right. That sounds like a challenge.

Paul Chambers:                   Yeah.

Sarah Chambers:                 I think that if anybody was thinking about doing this. If were to go and to do it again I think that we'd probably do it from scratch but have it in a different location to where were living. Whereas we'd actually moved in, were doing it as we were going.

Denise Haynes:                     Working around yourselves.

Paul Chambers:                   We made it much harder by trying to live in it whilst we built it. If you could build it and then live in it, that would be much easier.

Sarah Chambers:                 This came about by the fact that the house in suburbia was put on the market and it sold within a week.

Denise Haynes:                     Oh okay.

Sarah Chambers:                 We thought it's going to be on the market for a while and you'd have time to bring the containers up to scratch for living in, but no. Within five or six weeks we had to move.

Denise Haynes:                     The best laid plans…..

Paul Chambers:                   Yes. We were setting out to have an adventure. This wasn't just a house move or relocation. This was an adventure. Sarah started hinting that she wanted to go rural and I thought that she wasn't going to make it and I did not want to buy a house and then her say, "I don't like rural."

Denise Haynes:                     Okay.

Paul Chambers:                   I was actually having a social experiment on myself to go, could we do this? It turns out absolutely. Sarah loves it.

Denise Haynes:                     Oh that's great.

Sarah Chambers:                 Well city life does not suit everybody and it certainly doesn't suit me. I need to be in nature.

Denise Haynes:                     I think a lot of people think the idea of living off the grid sounds like a great idea. One which they'd like to try but they are daunted by the prospect and don't really understand how it works. Can you clarify a few things for us. For example, are you connected at all to mains power?

Paul Chambers:                   No. Not a bit of it. No. We've got solar panels. We've got a battery bank that collects the sunshine and then we draw it back in the evening. What we do differently is we live according to our electrical means. We use the electricity when the sun shines and we only use a modest amount in the evening when the sunshine goes down. It's a very simple trade off.

Denise Haynes:                     So you live around it to make it work the best that you can?

Sarah Chambers:                 When you've got full solar power during the day, you can run anything. I make bread in the bread making machine.

Denise Haynes:                     Okay that's great.

Sarah Chambers:                 There's nothing that you can't run when it's on what's called float, which means it's just pure energy.

Denise Haynes:                     Right. So you don't have special appliances or anything to suit solar?

Sarah Chambers:                 No.

Paul Chambers:                   No.

Sarah Chambers:                 We've got freezers, fridges.

Paul Chambers:                   We bought all of our white goods from suburbagatory.

Denise Haynes:                     Okay.

Paul Chambers:                   We use the same stuff. You can either go down the 12 volt line which for the RV, camper vans and things like that, which use 12 volts or you can make enough electricity to run real devices and we picked that option.

Denise Haynes:                     Okay.

Paul Chambers:                   I've got a back up generator but with the exception of the amazing summer that we've just experienced it largely doesn't go on.

Denise Haynes:                     Right okay.

Paul Chambers:                   In actual fact I've got a kilowatt of solar panels under tarpaulin that I just haven't bothered to put up because truthfully, I don't need them.

Denise Haynes:                     That's really good. If someone wanted to be connected to mains just as a back up. They could though, couldn't they?

Sarah Chambers:                 Yes. Absolutely.

Paul Chambers:                   They could but…..

Sarah Chambers:                 You could take our shipping containers Denise, and you can make them into a granny flat next to your house. You could make it into an independent living accommodation.

Paul Chambers:                   Or an office or anything.

Sarah Chambers:                 Have it on the mains or not on the mains.

Denise Haynes:                     Sure.

Paul Chambers:                   If you're trying to connect to the grid, then you're looking at $10,000 per power pole. My whole solar setup is about $12,000.

Denise Haynes:                     Wow. Okay.

Paul Chambers:                   and very few ongoing bills. If you'd like to put your off gird house set a long way back from the road on a large acreage. You could spend $30,000 or $60,000 connecting it.

Sarah Chambers:                 Easy.

Paul Chambers:                   If you went shopping with $30,000 for a stand-alone solar system, you're going to run a palace.

Sarah Chambers:                 It's not about the solar system. It's about learning how to used it properly. It's about learning not to drain the batteries. It's about learning actually how sustainable energy works and how to use it to the capacity that you need it.

Denise Haynes:                     Have you just learned that from trial and error?

Paul Chambers:                   Absolutely.

Denise Haynes:                     Research maybe?

Sarah Chambers:                 Research yeah.

Paul Chambers:                   YouTube. The university of YouTube. I love it. You just say, what about this? Then you watch videos of people doing it and they show you step by step. The universe is now a different place. You have all of this wisdom and experience and you watch real people do it and it's not that complicated.

Denise Haynes:                     Okay. You're also off the grid for water. How does that work?

Paul Chambers:                   It's very simple. Australians have understood this for a very long time. It rains, you collect it, you filter it and you drink it, you're done. It's that simple.

Sarah Chambers:                 All our water is filtered.

Paul Chambers:                   We filter it to a very high degree. We filter for our normal water just for the washing up down to about 10 microns. The stuff that we drink, we filter to about half a micron, which is probably better than tap water. Our water doesn't have fluoride in it.

Sarah Chambers:                 It takes any bacteria and parasites out.

Sarah Chambers:                 And of course heavy metals which people get from tin roofs.

Denise Haynes:                     Right yes. It takes all of that out. It's incredibly healthy then?

Sarah Chambers:                 Absolutely.

Paul Chambers:                   We think so.

Sarah Chambers:                 Much better.

Denise Haynes:                     That's good. You said you use a generator or you have one but you don't really have call to use it so that's good. What about gas? Do you use gas for anything?

Sarah Chambers:                 We have gas bottles that we use for cooking.

Paul Chambers:                   For cooking. Tall gas bottles with a change over valve. It's very simple, you're done.

Denise Haynes:                     Yeah, that's good. I know a lot of people do prefer the gas for cooking so that's good. Okay. We've just come out of a few weeks of extreme heat in New South Wales. How did you cope with that in your shipping container home? What do you have for heating or cooling?

Paul Chambers:                   Well, we've got solar panels that provide the energy during the day. When the sun is shining it's producing the energy to run the air conditioning because we do have an air conditioner.

Denise Haynes:                     Wow.

Paul Chambers:                   The sunshine drives it.

Paul Chambers:                   We don't do what a lot of houses do. We're not trying to cool down a shopping mall. We cool down a small little area and when the sun goes down we were still experiencing phenomenal temperatures that Australians just haven't experienced for as long as they could remember. I think we saw 49 degrees.

Sarah Chambers:                 52 it was up there.

Paul Chambers:                   52 on Sarah's car thermometer.

Denise Haynes:                     Yeah, that's crazy.

Paul Chambers:                   That really is crazy. To be honest, we just put five litres into the generator and went “go”. At the end of the experience I think we'd spend a few dollars on petrol that we wouldn't normally have.

Sarah Chambers:                 That wasn't during the day.

Paul Chambers:                   But it was over and done with.

Sarah Chambers:                 That was in the evenings when we had it on in the evenings.

Paul Chambers:                   Australia's electricity bills are still to come in. They're going to be big.

Denise Haynes:                     You'll be laughing all the way. Okay, and heating? Do you have a little fire? Is that right?

Sarah Chambers:                 Paul made us a log burning stove out of-

Paul Chambers:                   An old safe. A Chubb safe. I converted it.

Sarah Chambers:                 It's awesome.

Paul Chambers:                   It's absolutely amazing.

Paul Chambers:                   It produces an insane amount of heat and what we do is that we just use firewood. I'm very proud of the fact that we haven't cut down a single tree to provide our fire wood.

Sarah Chambers:                 Just natural falls.

Paul Chambers:                   Nature pushes them over for you and we've got them spread around the house and you just go along after they've seasoned, you snip them up and they keep you warm in winter.

Denise Haynes:                     Keeps you warm. That's great.

Paul Chambers:                   Nature provides what we need. It's been brilliant.

Denise Haynes:                     All right, with the build. Did you use recycled building material or did you use some new, some old or all new?

Sarah Chambers:                 I think we used a bit of both.

Paul Chambers:                   It's a mix.

Sarah Chambers:                 It is a mix of stuff.

Paul Chambers:                   Wherever I could get recycled materials, I would use it. One of my mistakes was spending my money upfront to buy new without realising that I could have done it with a lot of recycled. When I ran out of money, then I started doing that. I went, "Oh I should have done this before."

Denise Haynes:                     Right.

Paul Chambers:                   There are some things that you do need new, but I'm a real believer in recycling and we've done a lot of that.

Denise Haynes:                     Okay. That goes back to with your heating and cooling. You've got the whole place insulated as well?

Paul Chambers:                   Oh yes.

Denise Haynes:                     Sarah, from a women's point of view. I'd be interested to know, do you have enough space to live in and especially wardrobe space. How do you cope with that?

Paul Chambers:                   I'd like to know how you cope with that.

Sarah Chambers:                 Actually its fine and the job that I do, working with herbs, means that you don't really need to power dress. Coming from suburbia where we were in an environment where yes I needed lots of different clothes to wear. Don't need it.

Denise Haynes:                     Don't need it anymore?

Sarah Chambers:                 You just downsized totally. I've got clothes packed in storage if I need them. The clothes that I have for every day, I just have in a wardrobe and I just use those. 

Denise Haynes:                     You're happy with that?

Sarah Chambers:                 Absolutely.

Paul Chambers:                   One container is about the size of a one bedroom unit in Sydney.

Denise Haynes:                     Okay.

Paul Chambers:                   We've got two of them.

Paul Chambers:                   That puts it in perspective. You take a major city and a one bedroom unit. That's our living container and then we've got that again for the kitchen and the bathroom and the laundry.

Sarah Chambers:                 How much space do you need to cook in?

Denise Haynes:                     Yes that's true.

Sarah Chambers:                 If you've got everything around you, you're not having to walk.

Denise Haynes:                     The more space you've got the more mess you make, I think, anyway. Don't you?

Sarah Chambers:                 It's back to how much stuff do you need?

Denise Haynes:                     Exactly.

Sarah Chambers:                 You downsize, you don't need it.

Denise Haynes:                     Good excuse to downsize isn't it?

Sarah Chambers:                 Absolutely. Get rid of it.

Denise Haynes:                     Now, do you grow your own veggies?

Sarah Chambers:                 We have a closed in veggie garden that Paul built and we've got big-

Paul Chambers:                   Planters.

Sarah Chambers:                 Planters. We grow vegetables in there. We've been very successful yes.

Paul Chambers:                   The only thing that we had to do was to make a cage to keep everybody else from shopping in our garden.

Denise Haynes:                     Right. Yeah. All the freeloaders. (birds and animals)

Paul Chambers:                   Yes.

Sarah Chambers:                 It's worked very successfully.

Denise Haynes:                     Oh good. Now has the whole project been cost effective? I know you said about the solar. The whole thing?

Paul Chambers:                   We set out to have an adventure, not to build an investment home. If somebody's looking for a financial savings then living in a shipping container is probably not the direction you go in. But we've been having an adventure. We've been comfortable, we've had a lot of fun and it's been tremendous and we haven't had the bills that go with the conventional living. It's been brilliant.

Sarah Chambers:                 It's sustainable living. It's got to be the way forward.

Denise Haynes:                     Yeah.

Sarah Chambers:                 Solar has got to be the way forward.

Denise Haynes:                     The way things are going, that's for sure.

Sarah Chambers:                 We haven't had any utility bills for nearly six years. How much money have we saved?

Denise Haynes:                     That's right. It certainly would have added up over the years. Yeah okay. You obviously enjoy your lifestyle now. More so than the city life?

Sarah Chambers:                 Oh absolutely. I would never go back.

Paul Chambers:                   It's different. We love different.

Sarah Chambers:                 Love Booral. Love it. I don't want to live anywhere else.

Denise Haynes:                     Good. That's what we like to hear. Okay. Do you think you're far more relaxed and healthier from the lifestyle that you have now?

Sarah Chambers:                 Totally. I was absolutely beginning to be very ill in suburbia.

Denise Haynes:                     Okay?

Sarah Chambers:                 It's the energy of it.

Paul Chambers:                   My first three years were working very hard. I will confess to that.

Sarah Chambers:                 Yes.

Paul Chambers:                   When I was doing the building I did work very hard. Any owner/builder would be able to relate to that experience.

Sarah Chambers:                 Yeah. It's good exercise too.

Paul Chambers:                   We've traded noisy neighbours for wallabies.

Sarah Chambers:                 Noisy wallabies.

Paul Chambers:                   Wallabies that look through our bedroom window to see what we're up to.

Denise Haynes:                     Gorgeous.

Sarah Chambers:                 The birds. The birds they just come down and look at us.

Denise Haynes:                     Can I have some photos of that please?

Sarah Chambers:                 Yeah.

Denise Haynes:                     Okay. Finally, would you do it all again?

Paul Chambers:                   Absolutely.

Denise Haynes:                     Yeah?

Paul Chambers:                   I came for an adventure and we've been living an adventure. That was the whole point. it was an experiment in - do we want to live sustainably off grid in a natural environment? The answer is, yes.

Sarah Chambers:                 Oh totally.

Paul Chambers:                   Now I know. Now I know that you can do it.

Sarah Chambers:                 yes, we've done it.

Sarah Chambers:                 It's been hard work, there's no doubt about it. I don't think every woman could actually have lived like I lived to start with. Being in the environment that we were in, on the top of the mountain with all that nature was better than that I didn't have a shower and I was washing in a bucket, rather than living in suburbia.

Denise Haynes:                     Sure.

Sarah Chambers:                 There was no comparison.

Denise Haynes:                     It's small sacrifices.

Sarah Chambers:                 Absolutely. It's all come around. We've got a beautiful bathroom now.

Sarah Chambers:                 I don't really want to go back into living in a house. I want to find the right location to put the containers.

Denise Haynes:                     Great. That sounds good. All right. We'll try and help you with that. We'll put this up as a blog and we'll provide links to everyone to your eBooks and also to the YouTube link.

Sarah Chambers:                 Wonderful.

Paul Chambers:                   Thank you. That's very kind.

Denise Haynes:                     For everybody to have a look. Thank you so much for sharing your amazing story with us and hopefully ... Even if it helps one person just to take that next step that they've been dreaming of. I think it will been, well worth it.

Sarah Chambers:                 Well if anybody's interested in how to build a house from containers, it's all in the eBooks.

Denise Haynes:                     Great.

Sarah Chambers:                 Step by step with videos on how to do it. Please remember to get permission from the council.

Denise Haynes:                     Sure. Okay. Go the right way about it.

Sarah Chambers:                 Yes, because they're very open and they will help you.

Denise Haynes:                     Well that's good to know. Because a lot of people do ask, what's the council like to deal with.

Sarah Chambers:                 Don't do it without council permission.

Sarah Chambers:                 We do know somebody that can do the plans for shipping container houses.

Denise Haynes:                     If anyone has any questions, they can come to us and we can refer them on to you if you like.

Sarah Chambers:                 Absolutely yeah.

Denise Haynes:                     Okay great. I just wanted to finally say thank you so much for being here, for being part of our community. We love having you guys here. We're so glad that you chose Booral.

Sarah Chambers:                 We couldn't choose anywhere else. It's just a fabulous place and it's so up and coming. It's beginning to get that cosmopolitan feel isn't it?

Denise Haynes:                     It is isn't it? It's starting to be discovered. That's what we do at R & R Property. We specialise in tree changes. We help people coming from the city to the country.

Sarah Chambers:                 Well you do an excellent job of it Denise.

Denise Haynes:                     Thank you so much.

Paul Chambers:                   Thank you Denise.

Denise Haynes:                     Thank you. Thank you for being here.