Justin Womack - Podcast Host, Copywriter, and Fiverr Pro

Justin Womack, the owner of JMack Media LLC, a digital marketer, copywriter, podcast manager, and Fiverr Pro joins Casey Eberhart for an interview on Casey's "Expand the Business" Podcast.

In this interview, Justin discusses how earning the Fiverr Pro designation has impacted his business as well as how becoming a podcast host of two shows has moved the needle.

Justin Womack is the co-host of the Marketing Geeks Podcast along with Andros Sturgeon. Marketing Geeks is a top 100 Business - Management & Marketing Podcast on Apple Podcasts and has hit as high as #1 in the category of management & marketing. Justin is also the host of a podcast that he runs for the company BannerSeason where he interviews top promoters within the company about how they leverage the company's technology to grow their businesses.

If you'd like to connect with Justin Womack and take him up on a few of his offers if they are still available, check out the links below:

Visit Justin Womack's website for JMack Media LLC: https://jmackmedia.com

View Justin Womack's Fiverr Pro Gigs at: https://www.fiverr.com/justinwomack1

Listen to the Marketing Geeks Podcast by searching "Marketing Geeks" on your favorite podcast platform or by visiting the website: https://marketinggeekspodcast.com

Register for the Marketing Geeks Podcast Launchpad Webinar on July 31st, 2019 by going to: http://podcastmasterycourse.com

If you have missed the webinar, the recording will be made available to all people that donate $5 or more to the Marketing Geeks Podcast. If you'd like to make a donation to receive access to this webinar replay, please visit: https://anchor.fm/marketing-geeks/support

After making a $5+ donation, please send an email to [email protected] so that we receive your email address and can delivered your webinar replay files.

Justin Womack is also a promoter of BannerSeason, a marketing company that aids to improve customer relationships, incentivize referrals, and improve customer retention. With BannerSeason, users can mail automated direct mail campaigns that include personalized cards, gifts, and swag items that are triggered through CRM actions or mobile triggers.

Check Out BannerSeason and Start an Account by Visiting the Website and Using Invitation Code "START"

Go to https://bannerseason.com and enter the invitation code "START" in order to create your free account.

Note: Using the BannerSeason service will require depositing and spending money, but you can create a basic account free of charge by going to the site and using invite code "START." This way you can explore the platform a bit before using.

Want to listen to Justin Womack's BannerSeason Podcast?

Find it on Apple Podcasts at: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/bannerseason-podcast-create-raving-fans-build-lifetime/id1446755681

Podcast Interview Transcript:

Speaker 1: (00:03)
Hey everybody. Welcome. Welcome. Welcome to today's show of expand the business. I am your host Casey Everhart and I am so excited and thrilled about today's show. You guys, we are in for a huge, huge, unbelievable treat today. Um, you know, here at expand the business, what we really try to do is bring together experts, thought leaders, people that are out in the marketplace influencing and on the verge of well on the bleeding edge of not only technology but what's working now to help people really expand their business. So we're all about marketing and we're all about like kind of on the ground knuckles in really working on what's working now to help you expand the business. And today is awesome. I have been looking forward to this episode for many, many weeks. I'm actually really surprised I was able to squeeze our guest in for the time to record this just simply because his own agency is rocking and rolling.

Speaker 1: (00:58)
There's so much stuff going on. So let me tell you a little bit about Justin Womack, who is our very, very special guest today. So Justin is not only is he one of the kind of guys on the bleeding edge of diff technology and the bleeding edge of digital agencies and what's working now, he works with businesses and companies all over the world, really helping them focus on generating leads, ultimately making more money for those businesses. So he has a digital agency named, uh, you know, j Mack media. You can find [email protected]. He is a cohost of a podcast called the marketing gigs, which we'll talk about, uh, throughout this. If you're not, um, if you're not subscribed to the marketing Geeks podcast, I highly recommend it. We were joking today that, uh, you know, he goes with me every morning on a, on a walk. I literally am in obsessed with their podcasts and I'm listening to an episode every day, um, over at, uh, the marketing gigs.

Speaker 1: (01:57)
He also has another podcast that he is a host of for a company called banner season. We'll tell, we'll get a little bit inside of that. But this dude is all over the place. He's got, um, a lot of his business comes from fiber. He's actually a fiber pro, which simply means that he's vetted by them. Uh, really they got under the hood of the business and making sure that [inaudible] delivers and drives massive value to his clients. Otherwise he would never get that designation, which gives him some unique things to market his business and market his agency on five or so. We May, we may touch on that. Um, and uh, he's got a really cool podcast course coming up that you can find out more about out podcast mastery course.com. And of course I'll put the show notes, we'll put all these links and stuff inside the show notes.

Speaker 1: (02:40)
So without further ado, I don't have some fancy a clapping and, and sound effect here. So let me just welcome you to do the show. So Justin, welcome buddy. Thank you Casey. I love the introduction and thank you for having me and yeah, well we are, we are thrilled to have you here. And Justin of the things that, um, I always love talking to people about is kind of a multipronged approach to marketing and generating leads for your business. And I know that, you know, you do email creation and email automation, you know, you do copywriting, you've got podcast consulting and mass, Ya know, and, and management. Uh, in fact, uh, you know, if you're listening this, this is really kind of cool because Justin actually manages our podcasts here and is really putting this show on the map. So if you're listening to this on iTunes, Spotify, stitcher, or whatever it is completely in fact, um, basically all due to Justin and his team and his organizations kind of managing and producing the whole thing. Um, not only that, he is a, an infusionsoft partner as well as a banner season automation specialist. And we'll talk a little bit about that. So Justin, let's just, uh, let's just dive right into it. I would love to know your kind of, your core philosophy when it comes to marketing and how that relates to your client's businesses.

Speaker 2: (04:02)
I think it starts with visibility and, um, I think if I want to give it like a few resources that I kind of base my philosophies on a great, great book influence by Robert Cialdini. Um, one of my favorite books out there that's going to hit you with all the principles of how to influence people. And I, I'm all my marketing's really based on those principles. I mean things like scarcity, social proof, um, things, just ways of, of validating your expertise. One of the things that I like to tell people is, um, Fiverr's an interesting medium because a lot of people will get on Fiverr and you might have several gigs on there, but you'll never make a sale. And when I got, when I got recruited, I was one of the first five or pros recruited on the platform. Uh, they found me because I was a partner with infusion soft.

Speaker 2: (04:51)
So they brought me on. Um, I did, I went through an interview process. I had to take a few, uh, like exams kind of things to just validate my skills. But once they approved me, it was interesting because all of a sudden I was getting so much traffic and so much, um, so much attention only because they had gone ahead and validated me and they were a well known resource. So this, uh, this ability to leverage social proof from high end sources like a fiber like, um, like a Casey Eberhart or like, like people, you know, like influencers out there, it's powerful, powerful stuff. So if you're able to leverage other people's, um, other people that have more influence than you do and borrow some of their credibility, that's one of the biggest ways for people to get started, especially in the beginning.

Speaker 1: (05:36)
Yeah. So let's, let's spend a few minutes on that. So let's take a step back. Um, just for those folks that don't know about Fiverr and what it is and kind of the platform. Okay. Talk to me a little bit about what fiber is and what the platform is and what kind of things people can find all over fiber.

Speaker 2: (05:54)
So fiber was started as, it's a freelancing website, number one. And it was, it was created as a way for entrepreneurs and business owners to find cheap freelance, um, services that started at $5 from the platform, watched pretty much every gig was $5 and they slowly kind of evolved. Now we're able to add upsells to their $5 gigs and then eventually now with Fiverr pro, um, the minimum I'm allowed to charge is $100 for a Gig. And I think, I believe I'm up, I'm allowed to charge up to, I believe it's five or $10,000. I haven't attempted to do that. Um, but we're, we're able to charge big bucks for five or pro gigs because they validated our skills and they understand the value of not only finding somebody that can get the job done, but somebody that actually is validated, that has good reviews because there's a lot of, um, charlatans in the internet marketing space up there, especially I'll use the word charlatans. So having somebody validate you and being able to look at reviews and things like that adds a ton of credence to, um, to getting the job done.

Speaker 1: (06:57)
Yeah. Yeah. And for those of you that have never been on fiber, it is a like grab a glass of wine or a beer or a cigar or whatever your vices and just sit down and go check out fibers. F I v E R r.com. I joke that and I talk about this in presentations all the time, that I once paid a guy $5 in London to wear a hot dog suit, put my website on a piece of cardboard, go stand out in the middle of an intersection and spin around screaming my website for five bucks. And I only did that. I never used it as a marketing piece or anything. I just thought if some guy's going to do that for five bucks like I'm in, right? Yeah. I have used fiber for many things. I, you know, for $5 you can go on there and get 50 business quotes with your website printed on them.

Speaker 1: (07:46)
You can have. Um, you can, there are, when I was in the wayback machine and I was just trying to get my name and some practice being a podcast interviewee, I went on and paid several podcasts, five bucks to be a guest on their podcast. I mean there are so many different things that you can leverage. Five or four. So Justin, let's talk about fiber pro and then I want to come back to this influence and leverage thing. What types of things, and it's all based on a review system. So when you do a Gig, you get reviewed by your [inaudible] customers, correct? Correct, yes. And so what types of things does your agency promote on Fiverr pro? Where are you finding that or what are you finding that people are coming to you, that audience of Fiverr pro? What are they looking for and what are you able to bring to the table?

Speaker 2: (08:35)
Well, I can tell you that the best selling gigs that I have out there are four copywriting. So people that want a both, they're like a welcome sequence written for them. Or they want a sales sequence written because they have a, they have a product that they're introducing and they have a way for people to opt in on their website, but they don't have the creativity or they don't want to spend the time to actually write the copy and set up the automation. So my team will actually go in there, set up the automation, going to a site like MailChimp or active campaign, convert kit, infusion soft, whatever, whatever they're using, we can set that automation up for them and we actually write the emails so we have a complete package to get all that done. Um, beyond that, the other Gig that's the most popular would be a podcast consulting.

Speaker 2: (09:19)
A lot of people are starting podcasts. They, that medium is exploding, especially in 2019 it's been, it's been growing massively for the last about five years. Podcasting has been around for probably 15 plus years, but only in the last, I'd say three to five years have they really nailed down the advertising abilities on podcasts. And because of that, uh, that's why I see this as this massive, massive growth. And plus people are just understand now how important it is to have a platform where you can be visible and get your message out directly to people. Um, there's a ton of value in that and you're building a brand reputation about yourself. So it's a way of uh, creating credibility and just getting, getting your message out there. Just having a podcast is, um, people will look at you in a different light just because you have a show. It doesn't matter how good it is or what, I mean, a lot of people won't even listen to it. They'll just see that you have a show and we'll just think higher of you because you do that

Speaker 1: (10:12)
well. So let's, let's push in a little bit on this, this idea of leveraging influence and we'll kind of couch out around podcasting. I'll come back to copywriting a little bit later. So with marketing gigs podcast and the other podcasts that you do, how do you use that to leverage other people's influence? Like, like let's start, let's start back in the way beginning. Why would somebody who doesn't necessarily have the credibility to consider themselves? And a quote unquote expert, why would they consider using a podcast as a way to, or what are the benefits of starting a podcast? Maybe we'll start there.

Speaker 2: (10:51)
Yeah. So first and foremost, there's the perceived benefit that I just kind of mentioned earlier. The PR, the perception is that anyone that has a podcast is a greater authority than somebody that does not have one. Or if you have a book, you're perceived as a greater authority, things like that. So in a lot of ways, I compare podcasting to kind of like writing an ebook was five years ago where everybody had an ebook and that added credibility. Now podcasting is the new ebook, in my opinion. It's like you have to have a podcast to have that credibility. Now, plus if you want to build relationships with high powered people in the industry, having a podcast is one of the best ways to cold outreach to big names in your industry and get them to actually to want to be on your show. So, uh, is this coming Friday we're releasing an episode of Marketing Geeks where we interviewed Ryan Laveck and he's a, he's a pretty big name. I mean he spoken on stages like traffic and conversion is huge. Yeah, he's a big name this he's written, he's the creator of the ask method. He wrote the books, ask and choose. And so we actually have him on the show. We've had Pat Flynn on the show and Lewis,

Speaker 1: (11:53)
one of my,

Speaker 2: (11:54)
one of my favorite episodes. If you guys know pat, then you have to go listen to the marketing geeks episode where he's, where he's on there. If you don't know who pat is, you have to go listen to this episode because he is a fantastic affiliate and internet marketer. He's a love's back to the future. He's a super fun guy and uh, he really just kind of keeps it real and keeps it down and dirty in terms of really talking about concepts that people don't understand. You guys did a fantastic job of having pat on the show. What was really cool is I'm, I met pat in person at social media marketing world and one of the reasons that I even got like introduced and brought up to him was because we had one of the social media marketing world reps on our show first.

Speaker 2: (12:38)
Uh, she happened to be from my exact hometown that I'm from, which was like a cool, uh, icebreaker. And so I found out we actually went to the same high school, different years, but which the same high school. And then when I went to social media marketing world, she came and met me and then she walked me up to Pat Flynn, introduced me, told them about my show a he, he kind of recognized my cover art. You didn't, he had never listened to the show up. But because of that introduction I was able to get him to agree to be on, to be on my podcast. So because of the podcast, that led to an introduction that got me access to Pat Flynn. And then by having him on the show, it's now opened the doors to tons of other guests that want to be on. Because, uh, I have had pamphlet on the show now, and that's probably one of the reasons Ryan Laveck came on the show because he saw that I've had guests like John lead do, most of them had flame.

Speaker 2: (13:20)
So, um, as you build in, as you attract some of these higher names, uh, you're, you're gonna get tons of people wanting to be on your show. Um, and, and that provides opportunities to either monetize because these are people that might want to buy programs directly from you. The guests themselves might, or their audience might want to do something with it. So if you're, if you're doing this correctly, every time you have a guest on, you shouldn't have a system set up so that they are agreeing to promote your episode and that each and every time somebody comes on, you're borrowing a portion of their audience. And if the show is good enough, some of that a portion is going to stick and they're going to become a fan of your show in a, in a subscriber. And we'll listen.

Speaker 1: (13:59)
Yeah. You know, it's kind of funny because when I'm out speaking in and on stages, I kind of train on this idea of why is Oprah the most powerful woman in the world? Right? And I ask audiences, Justin, you've been in the audience gives zillion times when I've asked this question, who's the most powerful woman in the world? And Oprah is always in the one or two spot, like hundred percent of the time. And really if you look at her philosophy or her formula, it's exactly what Justin is talking about. It's essentially other people's content, which is your guests plus their reach, which is their audience equals more listeners or more people in your sort of space. So you know, when Justin Interviews Pat Flynn, he's using Pat's content, Pat's reach to bring more listeners to his show, to Justin show, and pat at the same time is doing the same thing.

Speaker 1: (14:51)
He gets to be leveraging the marketing geeks audience, the marketing geeks content, their reach to bring people over to him. So the listeners that listen to Justin show may not have known who Patflynn was, but once they listened to that episode, they're like, oh my gosh, that dude is just awesome. I'm going to go sign up for his podcast, which is smart passive income. He is [email protected]. Uh, pat. Awesome. So you really do get to sort of leverage that audience. So Justin, I can, I can hear, um, I can already hear people kind of emailing in and talking about, well, you know, I'm a network marketer or I own a roofing business, our own and massage, uh, you know, a day spa or I own a small landscaping business. Why would little oh me want to have a podcast? Why would a little owe me a need to do things like social proof and have, um, emails written? Like, why would, why would you know Bob from Bob's roofing company consider using a podcast?

Speaker 2: (15:54)
Excuse me. Um, I think that the main reason is that it doesn't matter how small your niches, what matters is that you're perceived as the expert in the industry. And if, if someone's going to hire a roofer and their review in between the various options of roofers that are out there, the fact that you have a podcast and you are teaching the concept of roofing or you're interviewing some of the top roofers in the industry or your bringing on people that have hired roofers and asking like, what do you look for in a roof? Or things like that. There's so much content that you can both learn about your industry and two people are going to perceive you again in a higher light and they're going to be more likely to hire the guy that runs the show on roofing. Or are they are the, the guy that, um, that teaches the concepts of roofing. Because if you're, if you're a teacher, people assume that means that you are, um, also the best implementer of doing the work. And so again, perception is reality. So as long as people perceive you to be the best, they're going to go after the best or the majority of people will.

Speaker 1: (16:52)
Yes. That's what I would look at. Yeah. It's kind of funny. There's a phrase that we kind of use in the speaker world and the presenter trainer world kind of behind the scenes and it is very, so it's totally cliche but absolutely accurate and it's can apply to the roofing business even and it's he or she who has the marker, makes the money and essentially it's he or she who's up doing the presentation and writing out and training is going to be the one that makes money because perception is reality. Therefore that person is perceived primarily as the expert. You know why you were explaining the roofing business or why that person would do a podcast? I just thought of of if I were a roofer and I wanted to do a podcast, I would probably interview lots of people in the real estate space because I would interview the investors, the bankers, the uh, the hard money people, the folks that are wholesaling deals out there, the real estate agents that if I'm a local, maybe it's just in my local space, but it me in with those guys and Gals to get my name out there.

Speaker 1: (17:53)
But the other thing that it does, you know, and just thinking about this, kind of broadening it, if I was a roofer in, you know, Pew Olic Washington, which is my hometown, I was teeny, teeny tiny little thing. Although I live in Los Angeles now, so don't, don't hold it against me, but, um, you know, you could then, if you were Bob in Bob's roofing company, you have a podcast and you wanted to interview a real estate investor in Chicago, well maybe you have a referral agreement with a roofing company in Chicago, so that if any leads come to you from that point of view, you simply pass them off to the people in Chicago and take a cut. That's just like huge leverage.

Speaker 2: (18:30)
Yeah. What do you give two examples here? Um, one example is Matt broadening. He's a, he's a client of mine. Um, our agency services a lot of his infusionsoft and podcasts needs, and he runs two shows now. So the first show that we developed was called the driven entrepreneur, and it was about, uh, interviewing high achieving entrepreneurs and kind of getting their origin stories in a sense. Uh, but what he realized was that he wanted to get more speaking gigs and he's kind of, uh, exploring, getting back into like corporate speaking and things like that. So He created a second show called speaking of getting booked. And this show is where he's interviewing the bookers. So he's using this as an excuse to get in with the people that are booking speakers and he's interviewing them and asking things like, what are the criteria that you're looking for? How does somebody go about contacting you directly? What would be interesting from a cold email standpoint? Like what would get your attention? Those kinds of questions. And he's building relationships with the bookers through the show because he knows that he wants to speak more and he's going to leverage those relationships for himself while he's also adding value to a ton of other speakers that want to learn the exact same thing.

Speaker 1: (19:29)
Plus he's playing to the bookers. Egos, right? I mean, on some level, let's just face it, you know, as a speaker, I, I know the audience by which he's trying to talk to, right? And a lot of bookers, um, are ego ego-driven, right? Our job as speakers is to get up there and do our song and dance and make them look like rock stars to their organizations. Right. So the other thing is I, what I really like about that is it would also give the audience a, a, the audience are primarily speakers and other bookers. And so if you are a speaker and you're just getting started and you haven't quite figured out how to get inside of the heads and the minds of those booking agents, then that show would play right into that. And he's kind of going behind the scenes and given everybody inside glimpses of how to help a particular group of business owners in this case, speakers save time and make more money in their business. Yeah.

Speaker 2: (20:25)
Yeah. And in that same regard, he also runs a speaker training program. So,

Speaker 1: (20:29)
oh, I'm shocked.

Speaker 2: (20:30)
The, the listeners of the show are likely to be speakers or want to be speakers, you know, there are aspiring, um, and so they fit right into his customer Avatar. So those, that's one of the groups that he likes to teach because he uses, he teaches NLP, but he teaches how to use NLP from the stage to be a better speaker. So He's leveraging that. Now one other example I wanted to bring is going back to Pat Flynn. Cause we talked about kind of the roofing idea of starting a podcast like that will pat started a podcast and one of the smallest niches you can imagine, he started a podcast on food truck companies. Yup. Um, and, and although he admits that it's got a smaller audience than any of his other shows, it's been one of the more profitable shows for him because he's got a very narrow niche. But these are highly qualified listeners that, um, that he's positioned himself to be an expert in food truck businesses and how to market them. And he's gotten clients off of it, even though it's a small niche audience. So doesn't matter how small it is, there's going to be, I mean, everything has an audience. You just have to be able to know how to communicate and find that audience, um, to, but it can, it can be a big thing.

Speaker 1: (21:32)
Well, it's kind of funny just going back to, um, Pat's food truck deal, if I remember the story correctly because I've heard him tell this story before, is I believe that it actually started with him writing an Ebook, ironically on how to help market your food truck business. And he was selling lots of those and then he started interviewing food truck owners, um, and businesses that have food trucks come out to their, um, to their location. And that's how he's built this like little cottage industry. I mean, ironically, I, uh, own part of a, a craft beer bar, a beer house up in Seattle, and we have food trucks come as opposed to us having a kitchen. Right? And so I have told several of the food truck guys that we have there about Pat's podcasts on food trucks. So it's a, for something as small and as niche and as narrow as that.

Speaker 1: (22:23)
Again, if, if you have an audience or you have a set of customers, it's also a way to leverage your customers. So, so Justin, just sticking on that podcasting for a second, it would also seem to me that um, whatever business people are in, whether again, you know, using either network marketing or construction or you know, airbnb properties, you could do a podcast where you're literally just talking to your customers. Yes. Why, you know, what were you looking for? What did you find was the best of the best experience? You know, what was, how can our industry or our profession better serve you as the customer? Right?

Speaker 2: (23:03)
Yeah, and I, I tend to teach a number of different ways of monetizing podcasts. One of them is the target market client as your guest on the show. So one of them is, is using your target market client or your customer Avatar as the person that your show is going to be interviewing. So you're attracting that person, you're interviewing them while they're on the show. They're likely to learn what it is that you do or you're going to have that a pre interview with them and you can tell them a little bit about what you do. And because again, you've leveraged yourself as the host of this show, the expert in the industry, if there's a need for it or when there's a need for it later on, they're likely to come back to you to hire you because again, you are the perceived expert and likely the real expert.

Speaker 1: (23:43)
Yeah. So let's have a let's about that for, let's talk about that, that strategy for a second. Um, I have been on podcasts where I walked into being a guest on somebody's show where they were absolutely targeting me as their ideal client, but they were using their podcasts to leverage me as a guest on the show. And it has to be done with the, the art of conversation because it can be very douchebaggery if you will. Um, when it comes off as you're just like, Hey, I just want you on my show. So off the air, I can tell you about how amazing I am and you can hire our stuff, right? You have to be a little bit,

Speaker 2: (24:24)
I don't know. Yeah, I agree. But having the podcast is a great way to open those conversations though because absolutely if you're going to, if you're going to do like the spammy type of messages on like Linkedin or Facebook where you're messaging like a thousand people at a time and you're going to your, and I'm talking about cold, where you don't know the person, you're just cold messaging looking for sales. Well, leveraging, introducing yourself and saying you have a podcast and you're looking for guests is a lot softer of an intro and more enticing than just saying you want to get somebody on the phone call because you are going to offer a free strategy session where you're gonna offer something like that because people know that being on a podcast has value to them and it's kind of an exchange of value. So, um, so yes it can, it needs to be done with a certain amount of tact. I would agree with that. But it also can be very effective because it's a great way of opening those conversations. If you're great at sales, it's a good strategy.

Speaker 1: (25:14)
Yeah, and I, and I think, I know you and I talked a little bit about this, a little bit about this off the air before we came on board or came on the air. But um, I think when you do that, the reality is that as a podcast store, right, the guy or Gal doing the interview, it's our job to make our guests look so much like a rockstar that that guests will actually go out and share that episode with their network because they want to make, they want to feel proud of like, oh my gosh, I was just interviewed on expand the business. Like this is awesome. If I got on here and, and Justin and I just kept trying to sell myself and you know, I kind of, you know, I, I wasn't giving you time to talk and I was kind of, you know, being confrontational and kind of just a d bag. Then the reality is you wouldn't share this with your, with your audience anyways. And the only real play I would have is the optimization of your name in the show notes or blog posts or whatever.

Speaker 2: (26:13)
Which, which I think is why if you're going to take this model on, you're not, you're not pitching them on the show, you're pitching them before or after the show. It's not a, I mean, the show needs to be about adding value. For the most part, it should be free value. Andy. I mean, the show is not a webinar. You're not, you're not taking the model on where every episode you're gonna have the a $1,000 paid off or at the end of every episode because that's a, it's not going to build an audience. It might get a few sales down the line. It may or may not, but it's not going to build an audience because don't want to be sold all the time. They want it. They want value. They want free value. A lot of our listeners, um, you know, they, they tell us that they're, they're looking, I mean, they basically use us as like an education resource. They're listening to marketing Geeks to learn marketing. Um, they're not, you know, they're not looking necessarily to even hire us. They want, they want to learn marketing and we're bringing on high end guests. We're discussing high end concepts and they listen to us because of that. So, um,

Speaker 1: (27:09)
yeah. And, and I also think what you guys do a great job of, and I think as a podcast or, or somebody that's doing this, um, as a medium to get word out or get message out, you know, content is king. Content is coaching, content is queen. Content is kind of the basis that levels the playing field between all of the entrepreneurs. But so few people will position themselves as an expert or position themselves as somebody that has the ability to interview somebody and make them look like a rock star. Then I think it helps be, it just stops people in their tracks. And so one of the things that I think a podcast can do is create that know, like, and trust factor. You know, I would make an assumption that the more episodes you guys do of marketing Geeks, the more customers and clients you're going to have for um, Jay Mac because you will have taken the time to get rid of the scary right. You've made marketing a little bit more well known. You've talked about some acronyms, you've talked about some concepts so that when somebody is ready to hire a marketing agency or bring on a copywriter or bring on somebody knowing that they need automation, your podcast really allows you to have somebody get to know you, like you, trust you and know your sensibility, know your jokes. Um, you know how your personality is, uh, right from the podcast.

Speaker 2: (28:34)
It's true. I got an email actually today from somebody who listened to the show. It says like, I feel like I know you. And it's just kind of funny because if somebody I've never met, I don't even know who they are other than their name in the email, but it's just a, it's true because people listen in all kinds of ways. Like I've had people tell me, they listen well, they go jogging or they go walking like you just said too. Or they, um, you know, they're, they're, they're listening in their cars on the way to work, like things like that. So it's funny how people, it builds like this, a relationship where they feel like they know you personally. And like you said, no. Like, and trust is huge, uh, influential factor in who you're going to hire for business. So a, when I can create that up, well, I mean, and it's, it's real. So I mean, they're getting to know the personality behind the name. Uh, but when I can, when I could create that, it, it, um, it definitely opens up the, the, the bigger likelihood that they're gonna want to work with somebody that they, again, they know, like, and trust.

Speaker 1: (29:22)
Yeah. And the other thing that it does, and, and talk to me a little bit about this, and maybe I call it something differently than what you would call it, but you know, one of the things when I was was putting the show together, I knew that we were going to be doing lots of stage swabs or a cast swaps where I do a guest spot on your show. You come to a guest spot on my show. Both people win because we're taking different, uh, taking different roles inside the episode. You know, I have a friend, Rochelle Shaw, who's going to be an upcoming guest and you know, honestly I love her shell. I've known her for a years and years and years, but she was kind of out of sight, out of mind, not from it for any other reason that we've just been really busy. And she asked me to be on her digital summit. And in that conversation I, that's when I said, oh my gosh, you have to be a guest on, on our show as well. So talk to me a little bit about the ability to leverage the platform in a stage swap scenario.

Speaker 2: (30:21)
Yeah, so I think it starts, I mean, so when we launched our show, I'm going to just give a little bit of background here. We actually didn't even bring a guest on for almost 10 months. Our first, uh, our first like 10 months of episodes where maybe there was like one or two exceptions to this. They were me and Andrea is my cohost giving teaching concepts. We just covered concepts. And then as we moved into year two, we started getting a ton of people reaching out to the show, inquiring about being a guest. And, um, and they were just, I mean, cause we were in the show notes of every episode or on the show, we would mention our email address on where to, where to request to either be a guest or suggested guests on the show. And over time, that's grown now to the point where we're getting like 10 to 20 emails a week of people that want to be on the show.

Speaker 2: (31:04)
We're turning people down now because we have to, uh, we're booked out through October right now with guests. Uh, but one of the things that I've learned over time and working with, cause I, I manage a map. Ronnie's Podcast, I'm not managing your podcasts. One of the things I've learned is the way that you, you book these people really, really matters. So we've created a form and we're using a software called JotForm, which is a, a, they have a free version and a paid version. I highly suggest checking it out, John. That's J. O. T. J. O. T. F. O. R. M. It's a very great software for creating a, an interactive form. It can integrate with like infusion soft or different email marketing platforms. Um, but what we do is we started asking questions like, would you a, do you have a podcast? Would you be willing to do a stage like a, a podcast swap?

Speaker 2: (31:49)
If we have you on our show, would you be open to having us on your show? Those kinds of questions. Uh, how big your social media following, are you willing to promote the show? So we're actually, we're, we're preframing the episode so that they understand that, yeah, there is an exchange here. Um, and I mean depending on, we might go a little softer on some of the bigger names like we might, you know, but if it's people that were kind of learning about, because they reached out to us and, and they don't necessarily have like a gigantic following, then we want to, we want to make it so that there is a bit of an exchange of values that we can appear on their show, they can appear on our show or they could do some sort of alternative promotion. We're, we're, we're both getting value from each other and I think that comes with preframing the relationship and having a good, um, a good forum for people with questions to fill out and information like that really, really helps the process.

Speaker 1: (32:36)
Yeah. So you, you brought us something in that and you just whizzed past it. So I want to like [inaudible] and that was my, my fake, um, chief for sound effects, former to VCR. Um, you want to know how big their social media following is. Yeah. So let's talk, let's talk about that from a kind of a build the tribe sort of perspective. You know, anybody that's been around this show certainly hear it expand the business or I've seen me speak or talk, you know, I'm all about building your tribe, not social media following. I mean at this point are you guys gonna really consider having a guest on the show that has like 124 Facebook followers. They hate Instagram, they got nine, they have nine Pinterest followers and they don't have a youtube channel and they've got 12 connections on linkedin.

Speaker 2: (33:27)
Not unless there's some kind of a celebrity that I've heard of through television or some legacy media and they just haven't adopted social media. So it's very unlikely.

Speaker 1: (33:35)
Yeah. And that's because as, um, you're trying to grow, you want to be able to leverage, one of the reasons why you would do a podcast, it seems to me, is to leverage into your guests network. So I just think it's really important that all business owners build that social media following or build that meetup following or build that linkedin or whatever, wherever your customers are following. Yeah.

Speaker 2: (34:00)
Yes. And ideally we also want to try to vet them a little bit. If we, if, if we could find the time, I mean sometimes we get so many requests that we don't have a ton of time to vet everybody, but we want to also make sure that they're getting a good engagement on their social media because it's easy to get 5,000 friends on Facebook. We're a ton of linkedin followers. It doesn't necessarily mean that you're getting a ton of engagement on the platforms. So we also want to look at like, okay, what's their, how are they perceived in the marketplace? How are, what kind of engagement did they get on social media? Those kind of metrics are also important to look at because again, it's a you, I mean, people buy fake followers still. It's still a thing you can, it used to be on fiber. You could go buy fake followers. I think they finally, um, enforced against,

Speaker 1: (34:38)
well yeah, well not only that fiber and forced that, but like I used to, I have a Amazon business and you used to be able to go buy reviews and by stuff like that and Facebook, I know Facebook did it. I know Twitter did it. I know Amazon did it where they started putting up fake listings, seeing who was going to buy them and then they would basically go close those accounts down. So just kind of, again, that's not really the way I would do. I W I would expand, uh, expand the business. But um,

Speaker 1: (35:09)
so let's, let's stay on social media. Let's stay on social media for just a minute. If somebody doesn't have a podcast, right, they, but they know they want and, or need more exposure to potential customers, potential distributors, potential vendors, whatever they want to get in front of what, what, give me a couple of things that they could do right now if they were trying to get on your show. The Marketing Geeks, like, I'll give you an example. One of the things that when I've, when I have identified a podcast that I want to be on, um, I am very strategic in that, uh, about a month before I asked to be on the show or go fill out the form that you have, I'm going to promote that podcast on my Facebook page. I'm going to tag the host in there. I'm going to go talk about how awesome their episodes are. I'm going to go actually listen to several of the episodes. So I know how the banter is that those guys or gals have on their show. So when I come to the table and fill out that form, I kind of am right there on par. I already know what you're really looking for. What kinds of things can people do?

Speaker 2: (36:19)
Well, I, I, it's funny that um, we had a guest on that was a special, um, he's, his specialty was called email marketing and, and he, uh, he used a strategy on us to get our show, but he talked about it too. How when you reach out to a show you want to be on, you should always at least reference a past episode. Um, make points that you actually listened to the show. Uh, give some feedback about, you know, things like that. And if you, if you could do that, even if the rest of the message is like a template, like a cut and paste template and at least personalizes it to the point that it's like, this isn't just another like fully cut and paste template that we get all the time. This is somebody who actually took the time to recognize an episode that they appreciated.

Speaker 2: (36:57)
They took the time to do this and, and it does stand out more. I can tell you that, um, if the first line of the email is like, or the same thing goes on like Linkedin, if I get a private message, if the first line of that private message is, feels generic to me, I'll just, I won't even read the rest. I'll just ignore it. It just goes straight into the spam box. So, um, so by recognizing that, that's a big thing. I know think that people can do, and this is a, there's a huge industry growing of these podcasts, um, what's called like a guest promoters. So they, they're like PR companies basically that are the, you, you hire them and then they have built out relationships with a ton of different podcasts and they'll get you on a ton of different shows. So that's, that's a big industry. That's like all of a sudden developing. Um, I see ads on Facebook a lot.

Speaker 1: (37:41)
I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm part of that, I'm on both sides of the equation. So I have a listing, there's a, I wish I knew it off the top of my head, but it's, uh, it's an email that goes out that essentially is set to, they play matchmaker essentially. Yeah. If they've got a list of podcasters and a list of guests and they send the guest to the podcasters and the podcast or to the guests and sit somewhere right down in the center. And what's great about that is it gives you exposure to people and interesting people that might be good customers or might be good guests. You wouldn't, you or I may not have access to or not even know exist.

Speaker 2: (38:15)
Yeah. And that, could you give an example? We had a, we had one of those companies contact us with a list of about 10 potential guests. And what really stood out stood out about that email is like, two of them were like super well or pretty well known names and big names and the rest of them I'd never heard of. So they, but they, they understand that you have to at least they have to at least provide a few of those big names to kind of get my attention. And then it's more likely I'm going to take on these other people that are probably just paid clients that are a, you know, you know, they probably don't have huge followings. Um, but it's, that's a way that they're, I think they're leveraging that, that system. Like, for example, uh, they, one of the guesses is Dan Locke, who I actually wasn't that familiar with him, but I, and I've gone on to find out that he has millions of followers and things like that and he's going to be on our show later this month. And, um, and it, he was introduced to us by one of those companies along with another list of about eight other names. And many of those other names I hadn't heard of, but that, you know, after reading the descriptions, a lot of them were, um, intriguing enough and we're bringing on several of them on the show.

Speaker 1: (39:11)
Well, because, because that company is leveraging the credibility of Dan's name and, and some of the other bigger names to have their lesser known names put in front of you. Right. And if you're just starting not a podcast, if you're just starting out a podcast, maybe the bigger names are going to scare you and freak you out. So you want to do some of the lesser known names to get your chops and get your practice in, um, on really kind of how, how on how all that works. Um, I know you're doing a Webinar on podcasting. Talk to me a little bit about why w on the podcast thing. You know, I know that it is podcast mastery course.com and it's, it's really to help people kind of get started down this podcast thing. I can tell you just from a guy who has done this for years, that what stops people is they're like, oh my gosh, I'm so freaked out. I got to get a studio system and I got to get microphones and I don't know how to edit it and I don't know how to come up with the music and I don't know where to post it. All that jazz. Is that kind of what this course is going to encompass?

Speaker 2: (40:15)
Yes, it will in a lot of respects. Um, I wanted to go to course that's, it's simple. So it's like how you can create a podcast even if you don't know a ton about technology. Um, so even if you're, yeah, even if you're not a Wiz at tech, but you want to create a show I and, and you don't even, um, and I'm going to give you a couple of different examples of how you could do it with a limited budget to get started in the beginning. And you can, you know, upgrade as your show improves. That's when you kind of make the upgrades. So like for example, like which hosting platform are you gonna use? There's free hosting platforms out there that a lot of people don't know about. One of them is anchor.fm, um, which actually got purchased by Spotify recently and is a, it's actually a very good hosting platform now.

Speaker 2: (40:56)
They're, one of the fears that a lot of people have with anything that's free is that you don't necessarily have as much control over your own show as if you're paying somebody else to, to host a show. So that's a fear that some people have. So some people don't want to take that risk. And so there's options like pod bean or there's options like Lipson or this options like a blueberry or what is it called? Blue, I think it's blueberry. Uh, VLU, B, r, r. Y. And uh, so there's all these different hosting platforms out there and depending on what your needs are, depending on, you know, where you, where you're at, you're gonna find you're gonna, you're gonna find that your needs very, or their needs differ. Plus, I'm, some of the podcast platforms are better at hooking you up with advertisers. So if your model that you want to pursue is monetization through advertising, actually anchored on FM is one of the best platforms that I've found that actually hooks you up with advertisers, um, pretty quickly and pretty easily.

Speaker 2: (41:49)
So if you could, if you're able to build a, an audience with a lot of listeners, that's a good platform to connect with advertisers. Um, a platform like pod Lipson, you have to reach a certain threshold before they'll even consider you to be added to their advertising platform. You have to have a, I've been, I think it's like 100,000 downloads before they even look at you. So it really depends on where you're at. And we kind of go, we're going to go over all the different things like your hosting. Um, you know, what's a microphone that you can get away with on a budget versus what's a microphone if you want to, if you want to have like the highest of end show, what's the best microphone to get? What um, how do I get my cover art created? How do I create the introductory theme, music, things like that.

Speaker 2: (42:29)
And like where do I find good royalty free music? So a lot of that stuff we're going to cover and give you the foundations. Um, and then beyond that we're going to talk about the strategies. So if you already have a podcast, it's going to be value as well because we're going to, we're going to share like things like how do you attract the best guests? If, if I want to, um, do the advertising method, how do I find advertisers, even if I'm on Lipson, I don't have that many downloads cause there are alternative advertiser platforms that we could, we'll talk a little bit about and how you can get your podcast signed up for them and then they can connect you with a potential advertisers. So our show has been monetized via anchor and it's been monetized via a platform like advertise cast. So we've had, we've had advertisers come from multiple different sources.

Speaker 1: (43:12)
Awesome. And you know, we, uh, here at expand the business, we are, we've chosen strategically not to necessarily do outside sponsors and advertisers. Quite frankly, you guys, it's only because I'm a control freak. I want to control the message that the audience is actually hearing. So for me, I'm just super strict in what I would ever promote and the guests I would ever promote. So the way that we will probably do it is we will eventually get to a point where to be a guest on the show is gonna mean that you quote sponsor an episode, right? So let's just throw out a number of thousand dollars to sponsor an episode, but that will give you your episode, but then you will be talked about on three or four or five episodes outside. So it's really kind of leveraging an entire entire communities.

Speaker 2: (44:00)
And that's a different model of advertising too, is that you control the contract. So you either, you either hire a company like that's gonna that's gonna pay you on what's called a CPM basis, which is cost per 1000 impressions or listens to your show or you control the contract and you, you sell a, a preset deal where you're going to provide so many episodes. Um, I know of a company that made a big contract with a major bank and they, uh, they're getting, I think it's like $10,000 a month, but they also agree to have one of their high end bank representatives as a guest on the show every month if they choose to use it. Um, and they are the sole sponsor of the podcast for the period of time, as long as that contract last. And, uh, but they, they privately negotiated that deal completely without using any of the advertising platforms that are out there. So that's another way of monetizing and it's actually probably more profitable that way until you start reaching those, you know, 10,000, 100,000 listeners per episode, then the standard advertising would,

Speaker 1: (44:58)
yeah. And, and I want to move off podcasting, but I was just thinking one more way that you could, um, use your podcast if you're just getting started is to, um, seal the deal if you will. And let me give you an example. You know, uh, Justin's show marketing geeks is all about, um, you know, marketing and what's working now and they really kind of geek out a little bit on technical stuff and all that kind of jazz. Well, let's say that there was a potential customer that was looking at hiring j Mac media and Bob's consulting firm and all things being held constant. Justin walks in and says, well, you know, we actually have the marketing used podcast. Once we, once we start working, I'd love to build a case study out of what we're doing for your organization and have you a guest on our show, it'll definitely get you some exposure into your marketplace. Yeah, he's just leveraged and sealed the deal. I'm over Bob's consulting hut that doesn't, uh, that doesn't have that, that reach to that audience.

Speaker 2: (45:56)
Right? It's a big value add. So even if you're selling like a mastermind program or something like that, it's a, it's a big value add that, you know, if you become a part of my high end mastermind program, you're going to get a guaranteed guest spot on my show. Something like that. And you know, our show is, we, our average is 2000 listeners in the first 30 days of a release. So that's a pretty decent audience. And so there you're going to get a pretty good exposure by appearing on our show, uh, within this first 30 days and it'll continue to grow over time. Um, but our average within the first 30 days is 2000 listeners. So it's a, it's a very, it's a very good value add. You're getting a very big stage. You'd spend thousands of dollars to get on a seminar stage, um, with a, a fraction of that audience. Um, you know, for her.

Speaker 1: (46:38)
Yeah. Oh, trust me, I, I know, I, I totally get it. So Justin, I know, uh, that I introduced you into an organization called banner season and banner season. For those of you who don't know, banner season is the premiere, um, site where you can customize and personalize literally one off promotional products and have them send to your customers or clients or friends and family if you want. So you can do things like customize one water bottle or one coffee mug or one box of brownies, right? And Justin, I know that the two things that I know you've brought into banner season is number one, you've done a podcast for banner season. Um, and too, they have engaged you in writing some of their emails, their communications with their new customers, they're independent referral partners. Um, so on and so forth. Talk to me a little bit about why that was an interesting project that you would take on. I mean, I know that at this point you get to sort of cherry pick the projects you work on. Why would, why was banner season something that you would kind of go all in on in terms of, um, creating an entire podcast for them as well as doing all their email sequencing and automations?

Speaker 2: (47:58)
Well, I mean it starts with a concept in marketing called lifetime customer value that I'm a big believer in. And what that really means is that there's certain ways that you can make money in your business. You can either sell new products, you could sell a, you could sell to cold traffic, meaning these are people that you've never heard of. You can sell to your past customers, which are people that bought from you, but they haven't bought from you in awhile. Or You could sell your current customers and one of the easiest audiences to sell to you is your current customers, but only if you've been developing a relationship with them and adding value throughout. So what banners season does, which I love, is that they, they, their business, which is not necessarily unique in that there's other companies that offer similar items, but what they do is they tailor to business.

Speaker 2: (48:41)
So they're, they're built for businesses that want to run their campaigns automated through like CRMs, like infusion soft or um, or ontraport or you know, big CRMs like salesforce, even, um, where you can actually, you treat like direct mail, like it's an email marketing automation campaign. So we're, we're setting up like cards that go out or gifts that go out, like they're fully automated systems because we know that adding value to our clients is going to add to our bottom line over time. Um, whether, you know, maybe not for everybody, but the clients that do buy are going to pay for the campaigns that I put out there because we're developing, you know, not only are we developing, um, stronger relationships that we're developing raving fans and what our raving fans more likely to do, but they're more likely to send you referrals because if they love you, they're going to tell their friends about you.

Speaker 2: (49:27)
And if they don't, they're not going to do that. So, you know, this is an awesome tool for creating, creating like raving fans that want to promote you. And so that's, I mean, I think that's what attracted me to banner season the most and now it's, you know, it's a tool that I can apply to my podcast. So we have a guest on my questionnaire now asked for the guest's mailing address in advance. That's something we added. Um, the jot form integrates with infusion soft. So I have that automatically going into my platform. Um, and I, it can trigger a, all I have to do is apply a tag and I can trigger a guest campaign. So that card in a mug goes out to the guest automatically to, to add value to them. Because I know that by doing that, they're going to be more likely to promote the show.

Speaker 2: (50:09)
They're gonna feel better about their appearance. I mean, it's, it's gonna, it's gonna help build my reputation in the industry. It's only, it's only doing good things. Uh, same thing goes for fiber. If I, if I have a client on fiber, uh, and I want, I mean, a lot of, there's a lot of money and engaging your old clients on a freelancing platform and you don't, if you're not reaching out to them or you're not capturing a contact information, then they're probably gonna forget about you over time unless you do some kind of like a incredible, incredible job. But even if you do that, they might forget about you because you didn't take the time to really build the relationship with them and do that. So this is like an automation tool for creating relationships. And I, that's what attracted me to it. So I, I think intuitively I knew like how to kind of write sales copy for it. And um, and so I wanted, I wanted it to be a part of this because I really believe in the, in the platform of the product.

Speaker 1: (50:57)
Well, what's really cool and what you really bring to the table and you know, um, as a, as a guy kind of really in the thick of it with, with banner season, one of the reasons why, you know, I made such a pitch to bring you kind of in into the fold, was that as marketers, our job really is to communicate with our potential customers and our customers and influencers in a multitude of ways where they may hear the message. So, you know, there's text marketing, there's search engine marketing, there's social media marketing, there's email marketing, there's podcasting as a way of marketing. And being able to send out a customized personalized gift, uh, to somebody is another way to reach out and touch them. So it's, it kind of just helped broad, uh, uh, fill out a broad spectrum of being able to communicate with potential customers.

Speaker 1: (51:53)
And even though, you know, someone like my mom can use banner season to send out, uh, a water ball here or there were Christmas cards, Christmas cards, right? Or holiday cards, you know, you've hit the button one time and send it out to everybody and it's completely personalized and customized, customizable. Um, it's such a, it's such a great tool, like you said, an in, in thank you gifts, you know, we work with a lot of, I work a lot with people in the real estate profession and one of the things that they will all tell you is like, oh my gosh, the referrals, our bread and butter of our business. And if we lose the referrals, um, we're kind of screwed. Yeah. Right. So something like this gives us one more prong to touch those, to touch those potential customers.

Speaker 2: (52:35)
And I think of like, I'm Ryan dice, a digital marketer has that famous quote that he or she, who's willing to spend the most to acquire a customer will always win in terms of advertising. Well, I would say the same thing applies to he or she who is spending, willing to spend the most to keep a client is always going to win as well. Yeah, you're, you're actually, you're, you're, you're making them feel special because not many people are going to go out there and spend $10 on their clients and give them a gift even though it's not a, it's not a big deal, but they're not going to do it because they just want to put that money in their pocket and they're not thinking that they're not seeing a longterm view. They're looking at short term profits, not a long term play.

Speaker 1: (53:12)
Yeah. I mean take banner season again, just for an example, if you guys go to expand the business.com, um, I'm going to entice you to give me her email address, right? And I'm going to do something for you that I think is, is sufficiently valuable for you to give me your exchange of your, uh, of your email. Right? So at this point, I've got a 30 minute download on how to generate more referrals now. Right? Well, if you go to expand the business.com, put your email address in there. You get get more referrals now as a, as a gift. I say on there, Hey, give me your address. I want to actually send you a surprise in the mail you do that, it triggers, it triggers about a $10 product coming out of banners season. You're going to get a thank you card and a, a treat.

Speaker 1: (53:56)
I'll leave it at that. Um, if you want to check that out, you can go to expand the business.com and see for yourself. Um, and you know that investment is 10 bucks. About 80% of people that opt in to expand the business.com leave me their address. So about 80% of those people, I'm already investing 10 bucks in without them ever being a customer. Number one, about 50% of those people will take that gift and that card and repost it on social media going, oh my gosh, I got that today. Which gives me another, another place to, to, to be in front of that potential customer. But it also sets up so much goodwill that when I send a second email that says, hey, go check out this particular affiliate product, or go check out this Facebook group, there's a higher likelihood that that's going to be sticky because I took the first step investing in those customers, right? Yeah,

Speaker 2: (54:49)
absolutely. Yeah. You've built, you've built a relationships with rapport or you, you know, you've invested in rapport with the, with a, with a prospect. So yes, there's, I mean there's a big difference between, I'm somebody that that already provided a $10 gift in advance and there's a, one of the principals in the book influence that I mentioned the beginning of the show is the, is the principle of reciprocity. And so if you give somebody a gift like in this, this is the concept that is behind every online funnel where you have this exchange of value. You're getting an Ebook, you're getting a pdf, you're getting a free recording, something like that in exchange for an email address. The reason that's more successful is because of this law of reciprocity that people feel indebted if you give them something and they're, they're more likely to want to do something in return. So you're leveraging one of the principles of influence there.

Speaker 1: (55:39)
Absolutely. And influence and leveraging of influence is so massive. Um, Justin, I know we've got just a few minutes left. I wanted to touch on another topic. Um, you know, I know, um, with, with Matt, you, you are part of his mastermind and you kind of helped manage and run of that. You, you are now helping us with our mastermind, a program. How important do you see masterminds playing a role in helping increase skillset, leverage,

Speaker 2: (56:12)
so on and so forth? I mean, I believe in them hugely, and I think it goes back to that saying from, I don't know who gets credit for this, if a gym room or Jim Rona or, or Dale Carnegie, but it's a you, you kind of become the average of the five people you spend the most time with, including your income. And I think when you join a mastermind program, you're, you get, you're gonna get a lot of good content, but you're really buying access to the network. One of the things that people don't necessarily realize is that the best value you're gonna get from a mastermind is you're going to get untethered access to that mastermind network. And there's the relationships that you build inside the network are where you're going to make the most money or you're going to see the potential most profits. So if you're just joining to learn new skills, that's, I mean, you're going to learn them, but that's not where the real value is. The real value, again, is you're getting this access to people on a consistent basis that are also playing at a high level and you're able to kind of build partnerships and relationships with them. So that's where I see masterminds have their, their highest level of value.

Speaker 1: (57:10)
Yeah. Not only that, you know, going back to if I were just starting a podcast and I would want to have access to people that have some influence, I would join a mastermind program and I would look for the smartest people in that mastermind, including the organizers of it, including all the speakers that come speak at them. Whoever has the influence inside of there. That's who I would start out as having, as having, as having guests or, or short interviews or, or whatever and whatnot with. So Justin? Aye.

Speaker 2: (57:41)
I would add one thing though because I, one of my, um, when I first got into like the seminar industry, I worked for a very, a high end speaker on the back end and he was selling packages for, you know, his highest end program was $100,000 at the time. Um, his mastermind program was $12,000. Just getting started. Um, but again, the, the thing that I found was, because at first, you know, coming into this industry, what, I had never heard this, I hadn't really been exposed. I hadn't been exposed to it that much until I was in my late twenties. And, um, and so, you know, it's a, it's just like, uh, there's a whole mentality shift where you're like, who would spend $100,000 for a coaching program? Uh, but what I found is that the people that did spend the money and the people that actually got a return on their investment were the people that joined and they leveraged the relationships they built in that network. Um, and they leveraged the stage time with the speaker and they that, and by doing that, the ones that succeeded were able to create more than a hundred thousand dollars in value. Um, because that's, that's how they did it. So I just wanted to add that because that's there is that there is a whole mentality shift that comes in this industry where if you've, if you've never been exposed to it, it's shocking. Um, but you know, having worked on the back end, that's where I saw people actually find success.

Speaker 1: (58:50)
Yeah. I mean like even in our mastermind program, uh, you may have seen it on Facebook called the platinum inner circle. You know, one of the things that we do as a value add is we write into my speaking contracts across the board. Almost always are able to offer our mastermind students, our platinum inner circle participants, the ability to come whenever I go speak at an event to come to the event. And usually we can get free or discounted tickets. Where are, that's really great as number one. There are just, I do some bigger events, so it's Kinda cool. I Know Justin, you've got to take part in that, um, that program. Um, but also our audience, um, is huge. If I'm speaking and there are people in my platinum inner circle in the room, almost always I work them into, into the conversation. So there's really some extra place. So if you are considering or you've never considered a mastermind, I'd really go back and listen to the last 10 minutes and really listened to what Justin was talking about as a guy that's been in several masterminds and it's not just the skillset that you're going to get from being a part of that, but it's really the ability to leverage the network and the access that you would have that you probably wouldn't have otherwise. I mean, unfortunately there is kind of a pay to play model, um, in terms of access.

Speaker 2: (01:00:12)
Yeah, yeah. You're, you're buying, you're buying access to the, yeah. The high end network and you're also buying access for the, that speaker to promote you personally. So you're Kinda, you're, you are, you're paying for it. But if you, if you play, if you, if you play your hand correctly, you will get the value from it.

Speaker 1: (01:00:29)
Yeah. And I would just say that, you know, just looking over the past five years that we've run our program, the people that really succeed in our program are really the folks that come with the attitude that they're going to bring value to. The, to the table, not just take it. Yeah. Right. I mean for, I mean you've been a part of, uh, of, of ours for several years and I think you would agree that the people that seem to not make it and kind of deselect themselves out of the program really are the people that kind of come in there and go, I'm just here to take everything and never really offer anything into the group.

Speaker 2: (01:01:03)
And I think there's a counterintuitive point in business where, yeah, people, I mean, it comes back even even when you're, um, teaching, like doing a podcast or something. And some people are afraid to give their best material away for free because they have like a scarcity mindset and they think that if I give everything I have for free people, what, what do I have to offer after that? But the reality is that by adding tremendous value and giving away your best stuff for free, you are, you're creating such value to these people that they, they want to hire you because you're the one that actually gave them value. You're not the one that held back. You're not the person that you know, is trying to hide everything behind a giant paywall. You're, you're giving, you're giving great stuff upfront. And uh, and then they're also going to be the people who tell their friends about you because you helped you help them. So, and you're creating, you're creating case studies and testimonials, stories for yourself without even them hiring you necessarily. And a lot of them, we'll share those stories with you.

Speaker 1: (01:01:56)
Yup. Awesome. So Justin partying word, somebody listened to this at the end. What's the number one thing? What's one thing that as soon as they finish listening to this, they get off the treadmill or they come back in the house from a walk or they get to work? What can, what can someone do when they're done right now to help start them down the path of expanding the business?

Speaker 2: (01:02:17)
Well, number one, I'm going to ask that I'm gonna promote my, so, uh, I'd like you to register for the Webinars, going to be a free webinar or to come in. It's a, it takes place on July 31st at a, I believe it's 11:30 AM Pacific time, 90% sure on that. Um, but it's a go to go to podcast mastery course.com. It'll take you to our registration page where you can register for the Webinar. Uh, what we've decided to do is even if you can't make it, go ahead and register because if you register, we're going to have a limited replay available. It will be only available for a few days, but we will have a limited replay. So make sure to register because only the people that do will have access to that. We're not going to give that to anybody else. Um, and,

Speaker 1: (01:02:56)
and then after that, after July, I assume they can still go to that, still go to that link and they'll find out whenever you're next, whenever your next webinars. Yeah,

Speaker 2: (01:03:04)
exactly. Yeah, you can go to that length or we might be, um, the next weapon may be on a different topic, but I, I, yeah, I'll probably end up just forwarding that link to the next topic of the Webinar that we're covering. Um, but yeah, there's a, if you're interested in this podcasting thing, um, I highly suggest that you go there because, uh, you're going to get a lot of free value from the, uh, from our presentation. We're going to be teaching you a ton of things that you can implement right away and we want you to just take action and get started. I think, um, speed of implementation is a, is a huge, is a huge driver of success in business. The people that actually are fastest to implement tend to win even if they, you know, act in spite of perfection. So, um, perfection in some regards is a, is a standard that is actually lower than people think it is. Uh, because if you're, if you're not taking action due to a meeting, everything to be perfect, you're actually holding yourself to a lower standard than people that are acting fast and just, uh, and, and adjusting as they go.

Speaker 1: (01:04:00)
Well, and I think people that listen to this show will be very used to the phrase production before perfection. You know, better, better to do it crappy, um, than not the, than wait until it's absolutely perfect because reality is you're not going to get perfect without the practice. Anyways. So

Speaker 2: (01:04:15)
on this, on this Webinar we're also going to talk about, because you don't necessarily even have to have a podcast, there are ways of getting on other people's shows without having a podcast. So we will, we will dive into that a little bit. You'll hear a little bit about that. Obviously we're limited, we're going to have about an hour to an hour and a half on the webinars. So we're not going to be able to cover everything in full detail, but we are going to cover topics like that because even if you don't have a podcast, you can get on other people's shows and you can leverage the medium. Um, and the more you do it, the more you're getting your name out there. And that's, I mean, that's the name of the game these days in internet marketing.

Speaker 1: (01:04:45)
Yeah, absolutely. So you guys, our guest today has been Justin Womack from Jay Mac media. You can find [email protected]. He also has the marketing Geeks podcast. You can go subscribe to the podcast, get all the updates that marketing gates' podcast.com uh, and if you really want to check out what he and his agency are doing, go check him out on Fiverr pro. Uh, when you get to fiber, go to Fiv rr.com just search in the bar for Justin Womack. You can see what he and the team over at j Mac do. It is unbelievably awesome. And check out a podcast mastery course.com as well as just get in Justin space. And when I say that he's on Facebook all over the place, linkedin all over the place, but I can't think of a better podcast to subscribe to. They're fun, they're energetic, they've got a lot going on. They bring on really cool guests. It's really interesting. Um, Justin, I just want to say before we jet out of here, thank you so much for taking the time out of a super busy day to jump on and spend some time with the folks that have come in. Uh, participate. I really, really appreciate it.

Speaker 2: (01:05:52)
Thank you. And if you, if you happen to be in the camera library, you're listening to this live, I'm doing a freelancing talk tonight at six 30 at the camera library. If you happen to be listening to live, you could go check me out there tonight.

Speaker 1: (01:06:02)
Awesome. Awesome. So you guys, hey as we wrap out of here, if you are looking to generate more referrals and or would like to be on an email list, a really kind of staying in tune with this show as we bring in a and roll it out and what's coming up, go to expand the business.com and if you put it in your, I just remember you're going to get a very special treat in the mail via banner seasons. So Justin, thank you so much. For those of you that have listened today on whatever your favorite channel is, I really appreciate it. Hope you'll leave us a review. Hope you'll check out, expand the business.com and with that guys, have an amazing day. Now go get somebody else. An absolutely awesome day. We'll see you on the next show, guys.