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Episode 552 - Gross Output (GO) vs. Gross Domestic Product (GDP): The Top Line of the Economy

The Soul of Enterprise: Business in the Transformation Economy by THRESHOLD

Release Date: 08/22/2025

Episode 572 - The Transformation Economy: Third interview with Joe Pine show art Episode 572 - The Transformation Economy: Third interview with Joe Pine

The Soul of Enterprise: Business in the Transformation Economy by THRESHOLD

We’re joined by Joe Pine on January 31, just days before the release of his long-awaited new book, The Transformation Economy (February 4, 2026). For longtime listeners, this conversation will feel both familiar and bracingly new. Familiar because we have spent the last two years exploring, applying, and occasionally interrogating the very ideas Joe now brings together in this book. New because Joe pushes the argument further and with more precision than ever before. Building on his seminal work on experiences, Joe makes the case that economic value has moved decisively into a new domain:...

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Episode 571 - Best Books of 2025 show art Episode 571 - Best Books of 2025

The Soul of Enterprise: Business in the Transformation Economy by THRESHOLD

It’s time again for our annual Best Books episode, where we sift through a year’s worth of reading (and in some cases listening) and surface the works that actually mattered. Not necessarily the buzziest, the newest, or the most performatively “important,” but the books that made us pause, argue back, reread passages, and rethink assumptions we thought were settled. As is our custom, we don’t just name titles and move on. We talk about why these books stuck: the questions they asked, the frameworks they offered, and the quiet ways they reshaped how we see the world of...

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Episode 570 - From Leo XIII to AI: Ethics Applied for a New Era - Interview with Father Vincent DeRosa show art Episode 570 - From Leo XIII to AI: Ethics Applied for a New Era - Interview with Father Vincent DeRosa

The Soul of Enterprise: Business in the Transformation Economy by THRESHOLD

Join Ron and Ed as they sit down with Father Vincent DeRosa for an eye-opening conversation on the enduring relevance of Catholic social teaching in today’s rapidly evolving business landscape. Together, they dive deep into Rerum Novarum, Pope Leo XIII’s seminal encyclical on the rights and duties of capital and labor—exploring its connections to the foundational principles of the free market and contemporary business ethics.   Drawing parallels between the disruptive forces of the Industrial Revolution and the modern AI transformation, the discussion considers how timeless ethical...

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Episode 569 - 2025: The Year in Review show art Episode 569 - 2025: The Year in Review

The Soul of Enterprise: Business in the Transformation Economy by THRESHOLD

In this annual tradition, Ed and Ron look back on 2025, unpacking the year's most impactful trends, business transformations, and economic shifts. From breakthroughs in AI to evolving tax regulations and the latest developments in technology, they reflect on the standout themes that defined this year. Tune in as they explore what these changes mean for the future, the insights gained along the way, and the lessons learned. Perfect for listeners who want to capture the essence of 2025's business landscape in one insightful episode.

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Episode 568 - Off the Cuff: Fifth Conversation with Greg Kyte show art Episode 568 - Off the Cuff: Fifth Conversation with Greg Kyte

The Soul of Enterprise: Business in the Transformation Economy by THRESHOLD

Ron and Ed welcome back Greg Kyte — yes, for the fifth time — because he keeps showing up with something new (and we keep letting him). Greg’s accounting resume is full of the usual letters (CPA, MBA), but his actual story is far from typical: from middle-school math teacher to stand-up comedian to fractional CFO managing medical office buildings.  Greg doesn’t just talk numbers — he talks character, change, and the weird ways growth happens when you’re willing to laugh at yourself.

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Episode 567 - Break the Mold - Second interview with Alan Whitman show art Episode 567 - Break the Mold - Second interview with Alan Whitman

The Soul of Enterprise: Business in the Transformation Economy by THRESHOLD

Ron and Ed welcome back Alan Whitman, former CEO of Baker Tilly and author of the new book Break the Mold. In his second visit to The Soul of Enterprise, we will talk about this book and the mold around the CPA profession. The mold is made up of the common conventions and the long-time operating principles that are shared across organizations. We are sure you will enjoy this in-depth conversation. 

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Episode 566 - From Numbers to Narrative - Interview with Dave Fionda show art Episode 566 - From Numbers to Narrative - Interview with Dave Fionda

The Soul of Enterprise: Business in the Transformation Economy by THRESHOLD

Ron and Ed sit down with entrepreneur, advisor, and educator David Fionda, founder of , to explore what it really takes for business owners to break through their growth ceilings. With decades of experience guiding firms through transformation — from startups to global consultancies — Fionda brings both the discipline of a CPA and the curiosity of a strategist. They discuss why most advisory work fails to scale, how to turn financial data into decision-making power, and the mindset shifts that separate incremental change from genuine breakthrough. This is a real-world architecture of...

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Episode 565 - Rethinking the P in PE - Interview with Brent Beshore show art Episode 565 - Rethinking the P in PE - Interview with Brent Beshore

The Soul of Enterprise: Business in the Transformation Economy by THRESHOLD

Ron and Ed sit down with Brent Beshore, founder and CEO of Permanent Equity, to explore a radical rethinking of what “private equity” can mean. Instead of the typical buy-fix-flip model, Beshore’s firm takes a generational approach which involves acquiring businesses to own indefinitely, building value through trust, stewardship, and patient capital. They discuss why short-term thinking often erodes lasting wealth, how culture can be a company’s greatest moat, and what it takes to invest with humility in a world obsessed with speed. This is private equity with a soul, or as Brent might...

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Episode 564 - 10x Joe: When Practice Meets Obsession - Tenth interview with Joe Woodard show art Episode 564 - 10x Joe: When Practice Meets Obsession - Tenth interview with Joe Woodard

The Soul of Enterprise: Business in the Transformation Economy by THRESHOLD

Ron and Ed welcome back Joe Woodard — for the tenth time. Over the years, Joe has joined The Soul of Enterprise to challenge the accounting profession’s comfort zone, rethink practice models, and remind everyone that transformation is never “done.” In this milestone conversation, they revisit the evolution of Woodard’s mission to help accounting professionals build healthier, more human-centered firms, and how the journey from technician to transformer keeps unfolding. Expect reflection, a few friendly jabs, and, as always, big ideas about the future of advisory work.

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Episode 563 - Apples, Oranges, and the Illusion of Measurement show art Episode 563 - Apples, Oranges, and the Illusion of Measurement

The Soul of Enterprise: Business in the Transformation Economy by THRESHOLD

In this conversation, Ron and Ed take a close look at economist Russ Roberts’ critique of utilitarianism. Can moral choices can be reduced to calculations of pleasure and pain? "No," says Roberts (and say Ron and Ed). Drawing on Roberts’ essay , they explore why life’s most important questions resist tidy arithmetic. Is it possible to weigh justice against joy? Or kindness against efficiency? Ron and Ed unpack the limits of the ledger, where human dignity, love, and meaning refuse to fit neatly into the spreadsheet.

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For years, GDP has been treated as the ultimate scorecard of economic performance. But GDP only measures final goods and services. It’s like judging a business by gross margin while ignoring sales.

Economist Mark Skousen’s innovation, Gross Output (GO), fixes that. GO is the “Top Line” of the economy—capturing total sales and revenues at every stage of production, from raw materials to finished goods. GDP, in contrast, is the “Bottom Line,” measuring only what reaches final use. Together, they tell the full story, just as accountants need both revenue and profit to understand a business.

This broader lens matters. GO reveals that business spending and investment drive about 60% of economic activity, with consumer spending closer to 30%—not the oft-quoted two-thirds. It also serves as a leading indicator: GO plunges deeper in recessions and rises faster in recoveries, signaling turning points before GDP does.

For accounting and finance professionals, GO restores the supply chain to center stage and gives us a more accurate, dynamic picture of economic life. If GDP is the bottom line, GO is the top line—and both are needed to grasp the true soul of enterprise.

ICYMI: Mark Skousen first appeared on The Soul of Enterprise in Episode #205 (August 18, 2018), where he discussed the origins of GO, its adoption by the Bureau of Economic Analysis (BEA), and how GO often doubles GDP in scale—even suggesting a leading indicator role for GO over GDP.