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A fireside chat from the International Conference on Digital Trust, AI and the Future. Bruce has created a wide range of cryptographic methods including Skein (hash function), Helix (stream cipher), Fortuna (random number generator), and Blowfish/Twofish/Threefish (block ciphers). Bruce has published 14 books, including best-sellers such as Data and Goliath: The Hidden Battles to Collect Your Data and Control Your World. He has also published hundreds of articles, essays, and academic papers. Currently, Bruce is a fellow at the Berkman Center for Internet and Society at Harvard University.
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Federico Charosky, CEO Quroum CyberFederico is a seasoned cybersecurity executive with over 25 years of distinguished experience across the Americas, Europe, and the Middle East. He specialises in cyber risk management, security operations, and incident response, Federico has dedicated his career to safeguarding organisations against the ever-evolving landscape of digital threats. In 2016, he founded Quorum Cyber, a premier cybersecurity firm backed by private equity, headquartered in Edinburgh with offices across the UK, North America, and the UAE. At Quorum Cyber, our mission is to...
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Chair: Stephen Ingledew OBE, Chair, Fintech Scotland Nishant Govil: MD, Innovation Adoption, BlackRock Kara Kennedy: Head of Digital Assets, JP Morgan Nick Jones: CEO Zumo. Dia Banerji: Imagine Ventures.
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Date: 24 June 2025 Chair: Peter Ferry, CEO, TRUST Centre of Excellence. Martin Doherty Hughes: Former MP, Chair of All Party Parliamentary Group on Blockchain. Martin Trotter: Regtech leader, BRS Grant Thornton Martin Halford: CTO SICCAR and Tech Steering Committee Accord Project Chris Tate: CEO Condatis.
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Ralph is a co-inventor of public-key cryptography, the inventor of cryptographic hashing, created Merkle's Puzzles, the co-inventor of the Merkle–Hellman knapsack cryptosystem, and invented Merkle trees. He received his B.S. in computer science in 1974 from UC Berkeley and a PhD. in electrical engineering from Stanford University in 1979. More recently, he is a researcher and speaker on cryonics. Ralph was a research scientist at the famous Xerox PARC (Palo Alto Research Center), and a nanotechnology theorist at Zyvex. He has also been a Distinguished Professor at Georgia Tech, a senior...
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Rosario Gennaro is a Professor of Computer Science at City University of New York (CUNY) and a Director for the Center for Algorithms and Interactive Scientific Software (CAISS). 1996, he received his PhD from MIT and was a researcher at the IBM T.J.Watson Research Center until 2012. Rosario's most recent work includes privacy and anonymity in electronic communication, along with proactive security to minimise the effects of system break-ins. He has received over 24,500 citations on his work and has an h-index of 72, and has published classic papers of “Non-interactive verifiable...
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Tal is a Professor of Computer and Information Science at the University of Pennsylvania and a Manager at AWS. Previously, she was the head of research at the Algorand Foundation and head of the cryptography research at IBM's Thomas J Watson Research Centre. In 2014, she was defined as one of the 22 most powerful women engineers by Business Insider, and a Woman of Vision for innovation by the Anita Borg Institute. In 2018, she was defined by Forbes as one of the World's Top 50 women in Tech, and in 2019, she was awarded the RSA Award for Excellence in Mathematics. In 2023, she was...
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Vinod is a professor of computer science at MIT and a principal investigator in the IT Computer Science and AI Lab. He completed his Bachelor's degree from the Indian Institute of Technology Madras in 2003, and his PhD in 2009 from MIT. His main supervisor was Shafi Goldwasser. Vinod is seen as a world leader in the area of cryptography, especially within fully homomorphic encryption. He has co-authored many classic papers and which are seen as third generation of homomorphic encryption, including on "Trapdoors for hard lattices and new cryptographic constructions", and "Fully...
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Srini Devadas an Edwin Sibley Webster Professor of Electrical Engineering and Computer Science at MIT in the Computer Science and Artificial Intelligence Laboratory (CSAIL). His current research interests are in applied cryptography, computer security and computer architecture. Srini was awarded an a master's and a PhD degree in electrical engineering from the University of California at Berkeley - under the supervision of Arthur Richard Newton. He was an inventor of Physical Unclonable Functions (PUFs), and, In 2014, he received the IEEE Computer Society's Edward J....
info_outlineAnd, so, we are moving into one of the greatest changes that we ever see on the Internet, and where we will translate from our existing public key infrastructures towards Post Quantum Cryptography (PQC) methods. At the present time, NIST has approved one key exchange/public key encryption method (Kyber) and three digital signature methods (Dilithium, Falcon and SPHINCS+). The focus will now be on seamless integration, and where we will likely use hybrid methods initially and where we include our existing ECDH method with Kyber, and mix either RSA, ECDSA or EdDSA digital sigatures with Dilithum.
Key exchange is (relatively) straightforward
Overall, Kyber is fairly easy to create a hybrid key exchange method with ECDH, and where we would transmit both the ECC public key and the Kyber public key in the same packet. In fact, Google are already testing its integration in Chrome. With this, our existing key sizes are [here]:
Type Public key size (B) Secret key size (B) Ciphertext size (B)
------------------------------------------------------------------------
P256_HKDF_SHA256 65 32 65
P384_HKDF_SHA384 97 48 97
P521_HKDF_SHA512 133 66 133
X25519_HKDF_SHA256 32 32 32
X448_HKDF_SHA512 56 56 56
Thus, for P256, we have a 32-byte private key (256-bits) and a 65-byte public key (520 bits). Kyber 512 increase the key size of 1,632 bytes for the private key, and 800 bytes (6,400 bits) for the public key:
Type Public key size (B) Secret key size (B) Ciphertext size (B)
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Kyber512 800 1,632 768
Kyber738 1,184 2,400 1,088
Kyber1024 1,568 3,168 1,568
Thus, to use a hybrid key exchange method, we would include the ECC public key and the Kyber512 public key and thus have a packet which contains 832 bytes. This is smaller than the 1,500 byte limit for an IP packet and thus requires only one packet to send the public key from Bob to Alice (and vice-versa). A Hybrid method is defined here:
https://asecuritysite.com/pqc/circl_hybrid
and a test run is:
Method: Kyber512-X25519
Public Key (pk) = 3BF9B5BB236AD036BA65B1B532E11927E20269D3CE74009E6C085F0D901F5CC9 (first 32 bytes)
Private key (sk) = B96B644DE170BA19266AF32BFA4B3B22A4917888A2EE785C701B7252D6308573 (first 32 bytes)
Cipher text (ct) = 0E54F37E171768318B45FD27FBDB08B33CD2204142C4B925BB395DA93AE26EA7 (first 32 bytes)
Shared key (Bob): C0B27940D588EE1D0F8348F169BA04A48E0E7FA7DE5B8A091D5D1B59E70D577EEAC4180B076595B2EFCCE96E2271EEA3B20228FC3FD5B63114D32E9D20D9A2F2
Shared key (Alice): C0B27940D588EE1D0F8348F169BA04A48E0E7FA7DE5B8A091D5D1B59E70D577EEAC4180B076595B2EFCCE96E2271EEA3B20228FC3FD5B63114D32E9D20D9A2F2
Length of Public Key (pk) = 832 bytes
Length of Secret Key (sk) = 1664 bytes
Length of Cipher text (ct) = 800 bytes
Digital Signatures and PKI is not so easy
But, what will happen with the next part of the process, and where we need to digitally sign something with a private key and then prove with the public key? This is an important element in HTTPs, and where ECDH is used to exchange the symmetric key, and then digital signatures are used to verify the identity of the server. For this, we use digital certificates (X.509), and which contain the public key of the entity and which has been signed by a trusted entity (Trent).
Well, at the present time, it is not quite clear yet, and a new IETF draft perhaps gives some insights [here]:

The draft outlines how we could include two public keys in the same certificate: such as an ECC or RSA public key and a PQC public key. Unfortunately, it has been given a “Tombstone notice”, which means it will not progress. The reason for this is that it adds a PQC key — no matter if the host actually wants (or uses) it. Along with this, it does not give a mechanism for coping with two signatures on a method (with a traditional one and a PQC one), and where it is not possible to detect where one of the signatures has been removed — a stripping attack.
Public key sizes for Dilithum
Like it or not, the days of small public key sizes are coming to an end. In ECC, for NIST P256, we have a 32-byte (256 bit) private key, and a 64-byte (512-bit) public key. For Ed25519, we use Curve 25519, and which reduces the public key to ust 32 bytes (256 bits).
For RSA 2K, we have a 256-byte private key (2,048 bits), and a 256-byte public key (2,048 bits). The equivalent security for Dililithum is Dililithum2, and which gives a much larger private key of 2,528 bytes (20,224 bits) and a public key of 1,312 bytes (10,496 bits). The Dilithium public key is thus over 20 times larger than the ECC key. This could be a major overhead in communication systems, and where more than one data packet would have to be sent in order to transmit the public key.
Method Public key size Private key size Signature size Security level
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Crystals Dilithium 2 (Lattice) 1,312 2,528 2,420 1 (128-bit) Lattice
Crystals Dilithium 3 1,952 4,000 3,293 3 (192-bit) Lattice
Crystals Dilithium 5 2,592 4,864 4,595 5 (256-bit) Lattice
Falcon 512 (Lattice) 897 1,281 690 1 (128-bit) Lattice
Falcon 1024 1,793 2,305 1,330 5 (256-bit) Lattice
Sphincs SHA256-128f Simple 32 64 17,088 1 (128-bit) Hash-based
Sphincs SHA256-192f Simple 48 96 35,664 3 (192-bit) Hash-based
Sphincs SHA256-256f Simple 64 128 49,856 5 (256-bit) Hash-based
RSA-2048 256 256 256
ECC 256-bit 64 32 256
A hybrid scheme is defined here:
https://asecuritysite.com/pqc/circl_dil2
For our existing signatures, we have:
Method Public key size (B) Private key size (B) Signature size (B) Security level
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ed25519 32 32 64 1 (128-bit) EdDSA
Ed448 57 57 112 3 (192-bit) EdDSA
ECDSA 64 32 48 1 (128-bit) ECDSA
RSA-2048 256 256 256 1 (128-bit) RSA
And in using a hybrid approach, we increase the signature size of 64 bytes or Ed25519 to 2,484 bytes — a 38-fold increase in size:
Method Public key size Private key size Signature size Security level
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Crystals Dilithium2-X25519 2,560 1,344 2,484 1 (128-bit) Lattice
Crystals Dilithium3-X25519 4,057 2,009 3,407 3 (192-bit) Lattice
Crystals Dilithium 2 (Lattice) 1,312 2,528 2,420 1 (128-bit) Lattice
Crystals Dilithium 3 1,952 4,000 3,293 3 (192-bit) Lattice
Crystals Dilithium 5 2,592 4,864 4,595 5 (256-bit) Lattice
Falcon 512 (Lattice) 897 1,281 690 1 (128-bit) Lattice
Falcon 1024 1,793 2,305 1,330 5 (256-bit) Lattice
Sphincs SHA256-128f Simple 32 64 17,088 1 (128-bit) Hash-based
Sphincs SHA256-192f Simple 48 96 35,664 3 (192-bit) Hash-based
Sphincs SHA256-256f Simple 64 128 49,856 5 (256-bit) Hash-based
And, so, what about using SPHINCS+? That has a 32-byte public key. The downside is that Sphincs SHA256–128f requires a 17,088-byte signature. This would also overload the communication channel and require over 11 packets to send a single signature to prove the identity of a Web site. It is highly unlikely that SPHINCS+ will be used to replace RSA and ECC signatures in ECDH, but where it would be used in applications that did not have a communications channel.
Conclusions
And, so, the double public key draft has been sent back, and we are awaiting the next iteration.
Learn more about PQC here: