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Episode 54: Karen Swallow Prior on The Scarlet Letter

Sacred and Profane Love

Release Date: 10/14/2022

Episode 71: Dana Gioia on the Tragic Thought of Seneca show art Episode 71: Dana Gioia on the Tragic Thought of Seneca

Sacred and Profane Love

In this season finale, internationally acclaimed poet Dana Gioia and I discuss Seneca's thought in general, and his tragic work The Madness of Hercules in particular. I hope you enjoy our conversation!

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Episode 70: The Poetry of John Donne w/ Lars Engle show art Episode 70: The Poetry of John Donne w/ Lars Engle

Sacred and Profane Love

In this episode, I speak with my colleague, Lars Engle, on the poetry and person of John Donne. There is no poet more attuned to the connections between the sacred and the profane than Donne, and it was a pleasure to hear Donne's poetic voice through Engle's readings. I hope you enjoy our conversation!

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Episode 69: Cormac McCarthy's Episode 69: Cormac McCarthy's "Blood Meridian" w/ Aaron Gwyn

Sacred and Profane Love

In this episode, I discuss Cormac McCarthy's Blood Meridian with Aaron Gwyn.  I hope you enjoy our conversation!

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Episode 68: The Poetry of Jonathan Swift with Steve Karian show art Episode 68: The Poetry of Jonathan Swift with Steve Karian

Sacred and Profane Love

In this episode, I speak with Stephen Karian, renowned scholar of 18th century British literature, on the poems of Jonathan Swift, the promise and perils of satire, and the pleasures of reading profane poetry written by one of the great Divines.  I hope you enjoy our conversation. Read along with us at .

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Episode 67: Poetry, Art, and Truth with Carl Phillips show art Episode 67: Poetry, Art, and Truth with Carl Phillips

Sacred and Profane Love

In this episode, I am joined by Pulitzer Prize-winning poet Carl Phillips to discuss poetry, classic texts, art, and truth. I hope you enjoy our conversation!

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Episode 66: Ovid's Episode 66: Ovid's "The Art of Love" with Julia Hejduk

Sacred and Profane Love

In this episode, I speak with the classicist Julia Hejduk on Ovid's The Art of Love. I hope you enjoy our conversation!    

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Episode 65: Boris Dralyuk on Nabokov’s Pnin show art Episode 65: Boris Dralyuk on Nabokov’s Pnin

Sacred and Profane Love

In this episode, I speak with my colleague at TU, Boris Dralyuk on Vladmir Nabokov’s delightful take on the campus novel, Pnin.  We explore our endearing hero’s journey from being a man on the wrong train to becoming an American behind the wheel at long last.  I hope you enjoy our conversation.

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Episode 64: Patrick Deneen on DeLillo's White Noise show art Episode 64: Patrick Deneen on DeLillo's White Noise

Sacred and Profane Love

In this episode, I speak with the political theorist Patrick Deneen about Don DeLillo’s award winning novel, White Noise.  We explore the novel’s undercurrents of existential angst in a world of distraction, amnesia, and unfulfilled longings. I hope you enjoy our conversation.

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The Podcast Returns! show art The Podcast Returns!

Sacred and Profane Love

Six years ago I launched a literature, philosophy, and theology podcast.  I had no assumptions that anyone would listen to it; it was an output for a grant project on virtue, happiness, and meaning of life. Today, I am thrilled to announce the launch of season 5 of Sacred and Profane Love, now fully supported by , where I am privileged to serve as dean of their Honors College. In this episode, I explain the hiatus and share some exciting news about the podcast, including our new friends over at Switchyard. Learn more at .

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Re-run: Episode 43 - The Closing of the American Mind with Brad Carson show art Re-run: Episode 43 - The Closing of the American Mind with Brad Carson

Sacred and Profane Love

This week, we revisit Episode 43 with Brad Carson on Allan Bloom’s The Closing of the American Mind!

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More Episodes

In this episode, I team up again with Karen Swallow Prior, this time to discuss what many people call "the great American novel" Nathaniel Hawthorne's The Scarlet Letter.  We talk about sin, guilt, and repression, and how Hawthorne's story is more complicated and interesting than most people make it out to be.

As always, I hope you enjoy our conversation.


Karen Swallow Prior is Research Professor of English Literature and Christianity and Culture at Southeastern Baptist Theological Seminary. She is the author of Booked: Literature in the Soul of Me (T. S. Poetry Press, 2012), Fierce Convictions: The Extraordinary Life of Hannah More—Poet, Reformer, Abolitionist (Thomas Nelson, 2014), and On Reading Well: Finding the Good Life through Great Books (Brazos, 2018). She is co-editor of Cultural Engagement: A Crash Course in Contemporary Issues (Zondervan 2019) and has contributed to numerous other books. Her writing has appeared at Christianity TodayThe AtlanticThe Washington PostFirst ThingsVoxRelevantThink Christian, The Gospel Coalition, Religion News Service, Books and Culture and other places. She and her husband live on a 100-year old homestead in central Virginia with sundry horses, dogs, and chickens. And lots of books.


Sacred and Profane Love is a podcast in which philosophers, theologians, and literary critics discuss some of their favorite works of literature, and how these works have shaped their own ideas about love, happiness, and meaning in human life. Host Jennifer A. Frey is an associate professor of philosophy at the University of South Carolina. The podcast is generously supported by The Institute for Human Ecology at the Catholic University of America and produced by Catholics for Hire.