Another Pass at Troy

Vanessa Cominsky joins Case and Sam to RAGE against this awkward historical epic!

Overview

Podcast hosts Case Aiken and Sam Alicea provide a framework for discussing the 2004 film Troy, highlighting its connection to early 2000s epic films like Gladiator and 300. Vanessa Cominsky, a guest and classics major, notes a 4-year professional bond with Case stemming from shared academic interests. David Benioff, the film's screenwriter, is discussed in relation to his later work on Game of Thrones and identified issues in narrative depth. Whitewashing criticism surfaces regarding the film’s predominantly white cast, despite its story set in a historically diverse region. Analysis reveals a lack of clear passage of time, compressing the depicted 10-year Trojan War into a brief narrative span. Costume design receives praise for historical accuracy while the film’s runtime discrepancies are critiqued, with the director’s cut deemed excessive. Thematic exploration includes Agamemnon's characterization as a villain symbolizing US imperialism, contrasting with sympathetic portrayals of the Trojans. Sean Bean's potential as Odysseus is noted but criticized for underutilization, while Peter O'Toole’s Priam provides limited but impactful performance. Improvement suggestions include altering the title to better reflect Achilles' journey and revising the narrative structure to enhance character development. Upcoming initiatives include a scholarship program for women in wine, launched by Vanessa Cominsky's nonprofit Vin Vitalite in 2025.

@vminsky
@womenofwinedc
Www.vinVitalité.org
(Pronounced vinn vitahlihtay)

Notes

️ Podcast Introduction & Setup (00:00 - 02:45)

• Hosts Case Aiken and Sam Alicea introduce the 'Another Pass' podcast, discussing movie analysis and improvements.
• Guest Vanessa Cominsky introduced as Case's coworker from wine/spirits industry and fellow classics major.
• Discussion of 4-year professional relationship and bonding over classics background.

Movie Context & Background (02:45 - 09:38)

• Analysis of 2004 film Troy as adaptation loosely based on oral tradition.
• Discussion of movie within context of early 2000s epic films including Gladiator, 300, and Lord of the Rings trilogy.
• David Benioff identified as screenwriter, connecting to later Game of Thrones writing style issues.
• Observation that Odysseus character tells audience he's clever but never demonstrates intelligence in actual scenes.
• Political interpretation: movie reflects 2004 centrist liberal perspective on Middle Eastern conflicts with 'support the troops' messaging.

Film Production & Casting Analysis (09:38 - 19:22)

• Vanessa's personal connection: used movie for high school Latin convention project and senior thesis.
• Whitewashing criticism - movie depicts conflict between Greece and Middle East with entirely white cast.
• Brad Pitt as main marketing draw playing Achilles in peak popularity period.
• Case's viewing experience in Rome during classics trip, creating nostalgic connection to material.

Story Structure & Adaptation Choices (19:22 - 28:32)

• Movie covers broader Trojan War story rather than just Iliad, including Trojan Horse sequence not in original epic.
• Brian Cox as Agamemnon praised as perfect casting choice despite whitewashing issues.
• Discussion of movie's approach to gods - humans take credit for actions rather than divine intervention.

️ Character Analysis - Heroes and Villains (28:32 - 38:14)

• Agamemnon positioned as main villain representing US imperialism, while Trojans portrayed sympathetically.
• Hector vs Achilles juxtaposition works well as respective champions of each side.
• Orlando Bloom as Paris criticized as too whiny and lacking roguish charm needed for character.
• Eric Bana as Hector praised as everyone's 'big brother' figure and moral center.

Production Design & Technical Elements (38:14 - 47:42)

• Costume design highly praised for historical accuracy and visual distinction between Greeks and Trojans.
• Director's cut vs theatrical cut - director's cut too long at 3 hours 16 minutes with unnecessary gore.
• Runtime issues - theatrical cut feels rushed while director's cut is excessive.

War Portrayal & Geographic Issues (47:43 - 56:37)

• Time compression problem - 10-year war feels like weeks or months with no passage of time indicated.
• Troy's geography poorly established - unclear city layout and siege logistics.
• Siege warfare portrayed as single-direction battle rather than comprehensive blockade.

Thematic Elements & Religious Context (56:38 - 01:05:46)

• Gods' role minimized to hint at divine influence without direct intervention.
• Moral philosophy embedded in Achilles-Briseis conversations about mortality and divinity.
• Historical accuracy questioned regarding Bronze Age vs Classical Greek terminology and social structures.

Casting and Performance Critique (01:05:46 - 01:15:32)

• Sean Bean as Odysseus underutilized despite perfect casting choice.
• Peter O'Toole as Priam noted as big casting choice but limited screen time.
• James Cosmo casting questioned as underused Trojan general.

Improvement Proposals - Sam's Pitch (01:15:32 - 01:26:16)

• Title change to 'The Wrath of Achilles' to better reflect actual story focus.
• Sean Bean expansion - more scenes showing passage of time and war strategy.
• Runtime reduction - cut Trojan perspective to focus on Greek side and Achilles' journey.
• Narrative structure - use Odysseus as storyteller/narrator rather than voiceover.

Improvement Proposals - Vanessa's Pitch (01:26:16 - 01:36:20)

• Scope change to focus on Achilles from moment Odysseus recruits him.
• Character development - establish Greek power structure and vassal relationships.
• Agamemnon characterization - emphasize him as villain representing imperialism more clearly.

Improvement Proposals - Casey's Pitch (01:36:20 - 01:45:13)

• Geographic clarity - establish Troy's layout and siege positioning with additional CG shots.
• Time passage - visual indicators and dialogue establishing years-long conflict.
• Battle variety - different environments including sea battles and raids on surrounding areas.
• Violence balance - between theatrical cut's sanitization and director's cut's excess.

Final Discussion & Wrap-up (01:45:13 - 02:05:58)

• David Benioff background revealed as Goldman Sachs executive's son, explaining Hollywood access.
• Vanessa's organization - Vin Vitalite, DC women in wine industry nonprofit with 501(c)(3) status.
• Scholarship program launching 2025 for women in wine industry.
• Next episode preview - Highlander 2: The Quickening.