Taylor Swift's Entrepreneurial Blueprint: Lessons in Leadership, Innovation, and Love

In this episode of the Class E Podcast, Dr. Kasie Whitener and Host, Mary Sturgill explore the fascinating intersection of Taylor Swift's career, entrepreneurship, and the power of love.  From the impact of Taylor's re-recording on the music industry to her savvy business decisions in negotiating streaming rights, the conversation delves into the entrepreneurial lessons embedded in Taylor Swift's journey. Join the discussion as they uncover Taylor Swift's entrepreneurial blueprint, offering valuable insights for leaders, innovators, and dreamers. 

Guest: Dr. Kasie Whitener

Host: Mary Sturgill

Producer: Isabella Martinez

TRANSCRIPT:

MARY: Hi there, everyone. You may have noticed that that is not our regular music. And that's because today we are talking about Taylor Swift. Yeah, that's right. More specifically, we are having a discussion about her innovation, her entrepreneurial spirit, and the economic impact that she is having on our country and now that she’s started her world tour, probably other countries. So I want to welcome you to this episode of the Class E Podcast all about Taylor Swift. This is the podcast that is brought to you through the partnership with the Hill Institute for Innovation and Entrepreneurship and the Communication Studies Department here at Furman University. And of course, I'm your host, Mary Sturgill. And can I just tell you I've been so looking forward to this conversation that we're gonna have today, and I hope that you enjoy it as much as I've enjoyed researching it and chatting with my friend Kasie Whitener. Dr. Kasie Whitener is joining me today. Kasie is an author. She's an entrepreneur, she teaches entrepreneurship at the Darla Moore School of Business at the University of South Carolina. She and her daughter are Swifties. I do believe. Kasie, that you have some proof of that. Yeah, there we go. The friendship bracelets.

 She and her daughter are Swifties. And she's my friend of course. So when I thought about this podcast episode topic, of course, I thought about having Kasie on the show to talk with us about that. Kasie, welcome to the show.

 KASIE: Thank you so much for having me. I'm excited to be here and any excuse to talk about entrepreneurship, which I get paid for. And also Taylor Swift which I don't get paid for. This is like it's perfect. It's the perfect combination of both.

 MARY: Yeah, I love it.

 “It’s me, hi, I’m the problem, it's me…”

 MARY: And of course, she is not the problem. She's our topic today. That's Taylor Swift. She has been in our lives for 17 years, guys. I can't believe it's been that long. We've known her since she was a kid. And now of course as especially with people like Kasie who have children, she is in her children's lives as well, socially. And so today the conversation is going to be about her innovation, her entrepreneurship, her economic impact, as I said, because now her entrepreneurship is bolstering others, not just herself. And Kasie I want to start with…we talked about, you know, her fandom and, and all of that and how she's pulling more fans in every day and I want to start with talking about her marketing. Can you talk about some of the things that you've noticed that she's doing right?

 KASIE: Yeah, so you know, I'm hosting this digital marketing class in the honors college right now at the University of South Carolina. And one of the things we have been talking about is online communities, and the ability of online communities to amplify the message of a product, a company, a brand, right? So Taylor Swift very clearly a brand…has put together this Eras tour, which the idea of it is so beautiful, she's got 10 albums, she's walking people through 10 different versions of herself essentially. We're seeing her entire kind of career all onstage at the exact same time. Artists typically come forward… they do the one album that they're promoting right? And they'll play mostly from that album, but in her case, she's decided she's going to do them all and so depending on which show you get to see, you get to see two or three songs from each of the albums.​​​ The fandom has gone crazy online because a lot of people are going to a show… they're seeing three or four songs from Lover, they're seeing two songs from Folklore, they're seeing one song from you know…the version she put in the movie theater only had one song from our favorite album, which is the one that she released over the summer, Speak Now Taylor's version, and so when we you know you kind of get obsessed with it. You're like, oh, this is my album. I can't wait and then you get to the show, and you're like, oh, she only gave me one song for my era, you know? And so then people just keep coming back for more and more. So everything around the excitement of it. This online kind of cult following for her, the community that has grown up around it. She also drops a bunch of hints and creates these little kind of Easter egg nuggets that people started building up these conspiracy theories and well she said this at this time and she was wearing a blue dress on this day and I can't even pretend to keep up with all of that except that it all shows up in my Instagram.

 MARY: Mine too. And my Tik Tok and my Tik Tok.The other thing is with those little easter eggs…and there's a Tik Tok video going right now that came up on my feed last night about the Easter eggs. I think this is brilliant on her part because like you said: one, she's creating that community, that family. She talks directly to her fans that other artists…not in a way that any other artist does right now I don't think or has in the past I should say. But the Easter eggs… we all love a good mystery right? And we all love trying to figure things out so she has us intrigued and on the edge of our seats.

 KASIE: Well, the way that she's predicting what she's going to do next. So everybody kind of says, Well, are we going to see this next? Are we going to see that next? So of course, I know we're going to talk about this on the business side. But she's been rerecording some of her earlier albums because she didn't own the master recordings. But she did own the copyright of the music itself. And so she re-recorded them so that she could then profit off the albums being sold, right? So we have all these albums where they're Taylor's version albums. And the Taylor's version albums are the ones that she actually re-recorded, which there's a whole other sideline there about really that is because when you get to take a look at your own work and do it again, you're a different person. You're a different artist, and it's just been incredible to listen to how her voice has changed. And sorry..I went crazy fangirl, down the rabbit hole with that one.

 MARY: No, it’s true though. No, I totally agree. It's true. I was listening to something, maybe her it was her first version of 1989 or something. And, or maybe it was, I can't remember which one it was quite honestly. But I was listening to the first version of her first album. And then I was listening to the newer version. I believe it was the first album. I might be wrong about that. I was listening to a version of one of her albums. And then the other version and her voice of course has matured because she started when she was a kid, right? And we can see the same evolution and other people we've known who've grown up from kids. I see this in Kelly Clarkson who can sing anything right? But I'm also seeing it specifically in our girl Taylor, and just the re-releasing of those with her, with the maturity in her voice and the way that she sings certain lines I've noticed and the different clips that I've seen online and stuff is totally different too and people are here for it.

 KASIE: Yeah, well so the two…I think the two songs that we hear on that first album that are so… you hear “You Belong With Me,” which is the song about the girl in the bedroom, you know, and the boy that doesn't realize that she should be more than a friend right? There's that song and then the other song is the “Love Story” song which is about the guy getting on one knee and asking her to marry her right? These two songs… very wistful, very teenagery, teenage-y like this kind of first love ish kind of sound. And then when we hear it in Taylor's version, it's this kind of backward looking, nostalgic sort of feel to it, and I gotta tell you, I think Gen X is here for it. Like I think when we first heard those songs, we were too old for those songs, right? Like they were teenager songs and like the turn of the early 2000s, mid 2000s. Like we were past that right? And you get into now this age and she re records them and you hear that nostalgia to them and you’re like yes, that's the voice I'm looking for on those particular songs. So I definitely think she swept in an older generation with the Taylor’s version on some of these older versions.

 MARY: Yeah, I completely agree with that. We're both of Gen X right? And I have been swept up with all of this. I mean, I've always been a Taylor fan because I mean her poetry, her lyrics are just… No one writes a song like she does except maybe Dolly Parton, right? In my book. That's my personal opinion. Which is why she has a gazillion awards and that kind of thing because she's recognized by her peers as a good storyteller, as a good songwriter. And it's that storytelling, I think that is the key to her marketing, right? So it's the songs , the lyrics, it’s the storytelling with laying the Easter eggs for her fans and giving them hints about things when things are coming out and she and her PR team. You know, we know Tree Paine’s her publicist, they are brilliant. They make a brilliant team. I think of Tree Paine as the Olivia Pope of the music industry.

 KASIE: You're not wrong about that. So I think you're right about there being… the marketing piece here is knowing exactly who your audience is, and what they want, and giving them what they want. And it's interesting because I've been listening to these other podcasts lately that are talking about how the danger of pop culture is that it gives us exactly what we want. And so it's not necessarily stretching us or making us better people and this kind of thing. And it's almost like Taylor's like I get it, I get there are people for whom that's the thing they do, right there are philosophers, there's whoever else that's out there that wants to make us all better people. What I'm here to do is give you exactly what you want, which are the stories that you recognize, the lyrics that you like, the poetry that you're looking for, and she's delivering. I think right now she's firing on all cylinders.

 MARY: Yeah, I agree and when I talk to my students about the importance of storytelling because I teach storytelling and its place in marketing, these are the kinds of stories that I want my students to come up with, right? And if successful entrepreneurs come up with these kinds of stories, we just had a podcast recently with Chad Price of Kettlebell Kings, and they were making that online community before the athletic communities or the workout communities that we see that are online now. And they were doing that back in 2012. So I think that's… and of course, Taylor has been doing it since day one just about….

 KASIE: Well, let’s talk about that online community growth over Taylor. Because I think it’s so organic. I think that people go to talk about what they're interested in and what they care about. And she's been quoted as saying things like anybody who makes you feel bad for the things that make you happy, that's like the worst kind of person, right? And so instead, she's encouraging this idea that people should come together and talk about things that make them happy and that's the feel, that's the vibe in the Taylor Swift fandom..is this sense of this makes me happy and and sharing it with other people makes me happy. And when other people are happy, I also feel happy. Like there's this tremendous joy in this community, which I think is something unique that we don't see in a lot of other fandoms and I'll be honest to say like, I'm not in a lot of other fandoms. I'm not in the Star Wars fandom. I'm not in, but my kid is in a lot of fandoms and her take on some of them is like there's some purity tests to it, right? Like are you really a Star Wars fan? Do you know this, that, or this, right? But you don't get that from Swifties.  Swifties aren't out there being like how Swiftie are you? Do you know this about that? Do you know this about? Instead they're just like, welcome! What can I share with you that you don’t know?

 MARY: And have a friendship bracelet!

 KASIE: Have a bracelet! Yeah.

 MARY: I love that. Um, is there anything else from a marketing standpoint that you've noticed or that you've even talked about in your classes with that, that our audience should understand about maybe some takeaways that they could take away from Taylor to their own businesses?

 KASIE: Yeah, so marketing is all about channels, right? Figuring out how to reach your customer, how to get the right message in front of them at the right time. So understanding what their buying cycle looks like, giving them, you know, awareness, giving them a reason to make your choice that you want them to make, right. All of these kinds of things. And I think what Taylor does a good job of is using all the channels available to her. So she has her music, obviously, right she's got video appearances. Anytime she's on, you know, interviews or talk shows or anything like that promoting things. She's done her own video content. So if you haven't been to see any of these videos, the short films that she's made to get over these videos, like take yourself down the rabbit hole because it's totally worth it. But then on top of that all the social media channels too, where she's purposely using different social media channels to drop different information and trying to bring all those fans access to her no matter where they are, which I think is a huge marketing lesson for anybody that's doing marketing. Meet your customers where they are, and bring them the messages that they need to be able to choose you and choose your product.

 MARY: Right. And that movie, the Eras movie, that's doing exactly that. We're going to talk a little bit about the economic impact of that a little bit later, but that's doing exactly that.

 KASIE: To meet them where they are, yeah.

 MARY: She's meeting them where they are because not everyone can afford concert tickets or to go to the cities. I mean, we have a lot of rural people in America who love Taylor Swift, right? Not everybody lives in a city. And so she's giving everyone the opportunity to get, you know, the feeling of the tour to be able to experience that in some way in the theaters, which I absolutely love.

 KASIE: I gotta say my favorite reel about the Eras tour movie was the video of her actually watching it. Like, this is the first time Taylor Swift has seen Taylor Swift on tour. You see her in the movie theater, just like, yay! She's as excited as everybody else. And I can't even imagine what that must be like to watch what you've created there live for people to see and enjoy. Well,

 MARY: Well, and I want to point out too that that is not an act. You know, people see through when things like that or an act. The joy that she shares with people is truly her and who she is. I mean, I don't know her… like I haven't met her, but I feel like I have. And that is a great skill for anyone in the public eye to have or anyone who is the face of the company to have because that can transcend not just the music industry or the creative industry, right?

 KASIE: I think the critical word there is authenticity, and especially if you're trying to appeal to Gen Z. Gen Z is so cynical about what they see everywhere. I mean, online and politicians, in person, in the classroom, like Gen Z is so cynical, because they've been so overexposed, right? They've seen so much and authenticity really resonates with them, and they and they pick it out. And I think Taylor Swift just has a gift of being authentic all the time. She is…what you see is what you get. She is who she is right? And um, people will say that. Other celebrities will meet her and talk about or they'll just be like, it's just amazing how kind and gentle she is and how she's just genuinely interested. And whether or not you've enjoyed your experience either at the tour or wherever they are like, it's… people are blown away by her.

 MARY: I think one of the things that show that is the growth in her Instagram following. You know, when we first had this conversation about doing this podcast, I checked her Instagram following and it was at 265 million followers. Just in the past month, it's grown to 276 million followers.

 KASIE: Wow.

 MARY: Yeah, that's a lot of growth.

 KASIE: That's 10 million people jumping on board in the last month.

 MARY: Exactly, exactly.

 KASIE: That’s wild.

 MARY: So I would like to get a look at her Instagram stats because that's… just based on that number, it's gotta be crazy.

 “I promise that you’ll never find another like me…”

 KASIE: There's this great viral version of Taylor, while they're writing this song, and she's sitting on the couch and she sings it, she puts her hand up like that she gets really excited about it, and it's in the writing process. It's well before it's ever been recorded. It's like as she's putting down the lyrics for the first time ever. And I mean, you can't stage that, like it's, it's clearly not staged. It's obviously spontaneous, and her joy in the process and how excited she is when it clicks for her, and then we hear what it turns into right afterwards. But I think that that really resonates with people too. That creative process piece really resonates too.

 MARY: And that's part of the story too, because she's showing behind the scenes of how she does her work. Right. And that draws us in. I get that same feeling. I understand that feeling when she puts her hand up in the air and is like I'm onto something right here.

 KASIE: Yes.

 MARY: Any creative knows that feeling. One of my students the other day, or even this morning, one of my students figured out how to do this great thing for her video. And I did it for her basically I was like, woo hoo, you know, whatever.

 MARY: Yeah, so proud that they have that moment where everything just comes together like that. So I want to shift now to talk about her Eras tour because we've been talking about it a little bit but I want to dive into the economic impact of this thing. Right? Because we had three great tours I think going on this past summer, Beyonce, Pink, and of course Taylor Swift and the economic impact, specifically of Taylor Swift, since she's our topic today, has just been crazy. The overall impact of the tour should be around, and this is the United States part of it, North American part of it, $2.2 billion just in ticket sales, right? That doesn't include the hotels, the merch, the food, all that other stuff.

 KASIE: And don't forget the hospitality tax that everybody's paying, right? So all these cities that have posted or that have had this massive 11% or whatever it is hospitality tax, you know, yuck it up communities, but you're getting all of that too.

 MARY: Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. So based on research that I found, I believe this was from Time Magazine, maybe… typically every $100 spent on a live performance generates an estimated $300 and ancillary local spending on things like hotels, food, transportation, I forgot transportation a minute ago. But for the Eras tour…That's just a regular tour, right? For the Eras tour, it's anywhere from $1300 to $1500.

 KASIE: Per $100 spent.

 MARY: Per $100 spent.

 KASIE: Nice.

 MARY: Yeah, so that's boosting all of those local economies.

 KASIE: All the restaurants, all the hotels, yeah, all the transportation. So Uber, you know, taxi services. Everybody else. Yeah, absolutely. So I want to talk a little bit about the structure of the Eras Tour. So what I think what sparked our first conversation about this was how impressed I am with the way the Eras Tour was built. So usually, and you can watch these videos where they talk about, they break down the economics of a tour. Usually a team will go out on and you'll see the artist kind of zigzagging across the country. They're hitting, you know, sort of regions, maybe but they're basically going all over the map right? And the Eras tour is designed very intentionally right? It was designed years out actually. Where it was okay, we're gonna go to Atlanta, we're going to play for Friday night, Saturday, and Sunday night, and now everybody that was performing those three nights in a row is now off, right Monday through Friday as we travel from one place to the next place. Then we're gonna go to the next town. We're going to set up and we're going to perform Thursday night, Friday night, Saturday night, right? And so we have these three shows in one place performing three nights back to back, which is like an easy Broadway to schedule, right? Like it's an easy schedule versus like a Broadway schedule, but they're doing it right? And the setup is there on Friday, and it stays up through the whole weekend. And then they bring it down and then they travel on Monday, right? This and they've been very intentional about the cities they've gone to and how they've moved around the country. This has never been done before this particular way or something on this kind of scale. And it's the economy of it. The idea that they're not wasting gas, they're not wasting hours, they're not wasting transportation time. They're not they're not there's no waste here, right, which is so compelling to me.

 MARY: Yeah, let's remind everybody that normally, in how this is different, is that a concert will go to one place for one night, and then pick up and go to the next place for the next night. And so you have all that picking up and moving. And in this particular case, they're saving all of that picking up and moving…that time, that energy the people power, but she employs hundreds of people, if not 1000s…

 KASIE: The jobs are there, right, and you mentioned the economic impact like that's there. It doesn't cost less necessarily except that they are maximizing the economy of being in one space for three days in a row and selling and those shows are selling out all three shows in every place, right? So yeah, I mean, I think from a design perspective, when we talk about an industry in general, entrepreneurship, always, it's about disrupting the industry. So if you take a look at what's happening in our industry, this is very blue ocean strategy stuff. All of you business nerds out there, just Google Blue Ocean Strategy. It'll say like, what are, what is not going well in our industry? What does our industry not do well? And one of the things that music industry does not do well is show to show to show to show, because there's just so much like this venue is not available, that town's not available. We’re using planes. We're using buses. We're all these different things, right? And she really got into a place and said, Look, we're gonna do this well, and in order to do it well we're gonna have to book it several years out, we're gonna have to plan you know, this far ahead. And I want to say they started doing this like 2020 is when she started booking this tour.

 MARY:  Yeah, yeah, I think so. I think so and planning of course before that, even before. I mean, she, she probably was thinking about this years ago, because I think she really thinks that far ahead. In her head she does.

 KASIE: More than likely 17 years old. You know what I’m gonna do when I'm 30?

 MARY: Exactly when I'm 30 this is what's gonna happen. Right. Um, we were talking a minute ago about the impact of her re-recording. We all know Scooter Braun bought her masters and Kelly Clarkson tweeted to her redo them, you own the copyright, right? The initial releases, especially her first album sold over like $10 million, 2 million copies, or brought in $10,000,000, 1989 brought in 10 million, but now she's re-releasing those and they're making that much money again if not more in some cases.

 KASIE: The second time around.

 MARY: The second time around. Taylor's version. So unlike other artists who haven't done this, they release it, they release an album and yay, they get all the money and the economic impacts of all you know, all that entails. But now she's doing it round two.

 KASIE: So what's interesting about this and again, like we go back to this concept of Blue Ocean Strategy. What do people in my industry not do well? And one of the things that artists typically don't do well is they don't capitalize on reusability for their songs, right? But streaming services have taught us that people don't they don't need to own the song. They just want to hear the song, right? And so as you look at okay, streaming services, there's all the there… The people who own the master copies are making money on the streaming services, you know, .000001, you know, penny, per play or whatever. Okay, here's all these artists that are like, what am I going to do about that? Like, it's just it is what it is right? And instead, you see Taylor go well, number one, I don't want Scooter Braun making all that money off of me for the streaming services, no matter how much it is. And number two, here's the thing I can do about it, which is I'm going to release a new version of something I know people already love. And this I mean, this feels like something out of the Disney playbook. When you go… Disney's got their animated Beauty and the Beast. They've got their live action, Beauty and the Beast, they've got their Broadway Beauty and the Beast, right? Like they had their TV version of Beauty and the Beast like they took that Beauty and the Beast and they've ran it for whatever it's worth right? And so that's not new necessarily, but the way she's gone about doing it to be able to monetize existing property, things that you already do have possession of, and then find a new way to package it. I think it's just genius.

 MARY: Yeah, and I read also somewhere that because of the Ers tour…  obviously streaming of her music and this happens for all artists but in particular, since we're talking about Taylor Swift… if they if they're having a concert, especially one that's so huge, like this one, right, the streaming of their music goes way up. So then that of course has the other economic impact of raising more money, right? For the artist and for whoever gets a piece of that pie. Right? So I think that's super interesting is that we can't leave that out of the economic impact as well when we talk about that. 

 KASIE: Another one of the channels when we were talking before about channels. So on streaming services like Spotify, you can create your own playlists, right? Some of the most popular playlists are fan created playlists. Taylor's got fan-created playlists that are replacing the original versions with the Taylor's version as they come out. So you're not getting both versions of “Love Story.” As soon as the new version came out, the old one was gone. And so it’s like they're erasing her digitally. They're erasing these old versions digitally. You can still access them. They're still on Spotify. But the fans are saying those aren't the ones we listen to anymore. We only listen to Taylor’s version.

 MARY: And they're on that train. They're on that Taylor train.

 KASIE: They're all bought in.

 MARY: And we're going to only listen to the new stuff that's Taylor's version. That's our stuff. And I think that that circles back around to her marketing and her building that community and the positivity that she puts out there and that her fans kind of feed off of right? You know, one of the things that makes her so inspirational to me is her generosity, right? We've heard the stories of every city that she's been in with the Eras tour. She's donated 1000s and 1000s of dollars. Nobody's disclosed the amount but we know it's a lot to every food bank in the city where she's had a concert. And that, that says a lot because that has its own economic impact… we talked about the financial gain of people buying stuff and going to hotels and restaurants and stuff, but this has another economic impact on those cities.

 KASIE: Yeah, I think so. It wouldn't surprise anybody who's a Taylor Swift fan to know that she's, you know, overseeing some of these decisions that are made at the concert level, right? So we don't know how many of these are Taylor Swift decisions necessarily, but it does feel like it comes from an overall vibe. So if you think of like a corporation having corporate values, what are the corporate values and does this corporation always act within their values? And in Taylor Swift, if Taylor Swift is a corporation, one of the values is generosity. And so where does that generosity manifest itself? And it is of course in charitable donations, it is in economic impact, it is in bonusing your own employees, caring for your own employees, those kinds of things. And so yeah, I don't think it would surprise anybody to know that Taylor Swift is living her values all the time.

 MARY: Right. And it's a great example to other leaders and whatever industry it doesn't matter the industry because you mentioned taking care of her employees. We heard about the bonuses that she gave, not just her truck drivers, but all of her employees. So like $55 million I don't know many people that would take $55 million out of their own pocket and spread it around to people that work for them.

 KASIE: Well, two it speaks to this… So as a Gen X-er are right, like I kind of hate to give it, you know, the millennial credit right? But I think it speaks to this sense in that generation that enough is as good as a feast. And so I don't need $55 million more. You know what I'm saying like, what else is that money going to do for me except just be more money, right? And so I can't take it with me like there's this kind of sense and I will give 100% the millennials the credit for that. They have a sense that enough is as good as a feast. And so when somebody has so much more than they really believe that they need right? We see that with Mr. Beast. There's a lot of these kinds of digital entrepreneurs that are recognizing, hey, I want to take care of myself and my family. But beyond that, I want to take care of all the people around me right? And that generosity, I think is generational.

 MARY: That's the generosity that I wish would permeate throughout all of society.

 KASIE: I think we're gonna see more of it honestly I think and like I said, I'm giving credit to the millennials. They're not all that way, but a lot of the leaders in that generation are and I think Gen Z is going to be the most generous generation we’ve ever seen.

 MARY: I completely agree with that. My students every day… they just impress me so much and surprise me. Speaking of… one of my students is my producer. Isabella, pop in here and show everybody and say hi.

 KASIE: Hi Isabella!

 MARY: She's the one. And for all of our podcast listeners, she's the one that makes this podcast sound so good. So we thank her tremendously. She graduates by the way, she graduates in May and I'm going to hate to lose her but somebody out there is gonna get a really good employee, who's very creative, who's just on top of things. So.

 KASIE: And here's an opportunity for somebody in your ranks that maybe gets to move into Isabella’s spot.

 MARY: Absolutely, absolutely. I love that you pointed that out. We're talking about the economic impact. $4.6 billion to the local economies, according to QuestionPro, is what her tour should be when all is said and done, should have kind of input into local economies.

 KASIE: And remember this isn't in a vacuum, right? This is a community effort. This is all the people who are taylor Swift fans coming forward spending their money, wanting to be part of something that is bigger than themselves, wanting to give their money to the community like wanting to go out to eat, wanting to make it a thing, right? Like all this stuff, so it's not…it is Taylor Swift. It is the tour. It is of course like hey, thank you Taylor, for creating this amazing company. But the key to it is that she's providing something people want, and people are willing to part with their money in order to get that thing and I think that's really critical because she's getting some heat from certain elements of like, how expensive the tickets are and like how much it costs and you mentioned before, because I want to maybe this segues into our conversation about the movie, about people not being able to afford to go and she gets some heat for that. There are people who don't, maybe they don't recognize the experience that is the Taylor Swift Eras tour, so they don't feel like you know, this is just not worth it. Nobody should charge that much. Blah. Blah, blah. Market economics tell us that people will pay the value that they believe it's worth right? And so they're willing to pay this money. That's them being willing to…don’t feel sorry for these ticket buyers, right? They're willing to do that right?

 MARY: They’re choosing.

 KASIE: Exactly it's a choice. She didn't make anybody spend that money on those tickets. And then she put the movie out. And the movie tickets which I love. First of all, the tickets are $19.89 So this is one of those Easter eggs, right? She charged 1989 for her tickets. When the tickets went on tour, we found out first of all, we thought it was only gonna be one night. So as soon as we found out they were going on tour we did not get to see the Eras tour. We fell in the group of people that was like we don't have two grand to go see this right? Not that I would in any way not spend that money if I did. I would 100% spend that money if I had it but anyway, all that to say when the movie was coming out… we’re huge movie people. So Holly and I were super excited. We jump on the app. We're gonna buy the tickets. And when we see it, I just turned it to her like, it's $19.89 and we lost it, like, cackling that she had priced them at 1989. Like, I mean, come on. Come on Tay. 

MARY: Yeah, but it's another one… It’s genius exactly, because it created that feeling in you guys that you are now even more excited because you're like this is right on right on what we expect from her.

KASIE: Oh, it's on brand, like it's fully on brand and it makes you feel like because you get it when you see it's 1989 you're like, oh, I get it. Good job, Taytay, right? Like and then you feel like you're part of this squad because you know this thing that other people don't know. I think the same when we showed up to the actual movie theaters… we're walking in, and everybody's got their bracelets on. People are singing along like nobody's telling you to shhh we’re watching a movie like it's not.. We didn't have one of the big dancy theater ones. I think if we had gone to a later show, maybe but we went to an earlier show. There were some small kids like we kind of… people didn't want to stand up in front of people and not let them be able to see so we just all sat and watched but, man we sang. I mean we definitely sang. 

MARY: And you're not alone. Everybody around the country. So the movie worldwide has grossed over $123 million.I mean, it's just, these numbers are just mind boggling, right? It’s reached $90 million within like the first week I think..it’s crazy, right?

KASIE: Can I tell you where I think this is the only mistake I think Taylor Swift may have made?

MARY: Oh yeah. Let’s talk about that. 

KASIE: Are you ready?

MARY: Because we learn from our mistakes, right?

KASIE: So the Eras tour movie grosses $129 million dollars,can you imagine if they’re had been six versions of that movie? 

MARY: Oh good lord. Yeah. 

KASIE: If she had issued… you never know which version you're gonna get. Remember when clue came out? And there were three things to clue. Yeah. So you went to see it three times because you weren't sure which ending they were going to show in that theater is a thing that needs to be done more often. And with the era's tour movie, she had a chance to do it, especially because there were shows that she recorded where she had played more songs. Like I said, we only got the one song from our favorite album. There were shows where she played more songs from that. So why not get film from a bunch of different shows and piece together three or four or six, but like say you get three, three versions of the error story. And you don't know so you show up like not sure is this going to be the Argentina one? Is this going to be the Indianapolis one? Is it…I don't know which one I'm watching. I'm just watching one of the three Eras movies that may be showing today. Right? Come on, we'd be back. We've got 1989 every time. 

MARY: Right. Dr. Kasie Whitener. That is why I have you on this show. Because you bring up things like that. I love it. I love it. I love it. 

KASIE: It's just a missed opportunity. Just a missed opportunity. It's not a criticism. It's just an opportunity.

MARY: Absolutely. And who knows, maybe she's gonna listen to this podcast and check out that missed opportunity. And if not, maybe somebody else will. 

KASIE: I think we get the world tour. I think she's going to do another movie. It's going to be whatever she does overseas. 

MARY: I think you're probably right about that. If I had to guess as a matter of fact, I also heard that she is also extending some dates after she comes back to the States again. So we'll see if that pans out. I don't know for sure if that's true or not. 

MARY: But now we're coming to my favorite topic of the podcast. And that is the love, the romance…

KASIE: We’re here for it

MARY: You’re right. We're all sitting here. I swear to God after the Buenos Aires video came out and of her changing the lyrics, of her running up to Travis at the end. Literally, I'm watching it from every angle that I could find on everywhere and I'm not alone because there's a gazillion Tik Tokers who are talking about the same thing. And we are all on even as old women…all of us Gen X-ers are loving this. 

KASIE: Yes right here for it. 

MARY: We're here for it. And I know the reason I'm here for it is because I love love. I’ve have always been romantic. But we're here for it and that is turning into some economic impact with the NFL. And with anything related to Travis and Jason Kelce, you know, I mean, right after she showed up at the Chiefs game, their podcast went to number one. 

KASIE: Yep.

MARY:  The sales of his Travis Kelce, his jersey have gone up 400% You know, their song that they just released the brothers Christmas song… number one on iTunes charts even beating Taylor, right, in some places. So that economic impact is spreading beyond just the world of Swifties and spreading to the NFL, and they're eating it up. 

KASIE: So there's two possibilities here right there's the cynical side, which is like this is a publicity stunt. The Kelce brothers organized this… their podcast was launching, their documentaries launching, blah blah blah publicity stunt, blah, blah, blah. Yeah, okay. Fine. If that's the case, there's a publicity stunt. I'm here for it. 

MARY: Me too. 

KASIE: I'm all in, it's fine. It doesn't have to be real. Like I'm into to read the story. Live the story. Love the story. I'm fine with it. It doesn't have to be real. So that's fine. So many haters that are out there. They're like oh, they're just doing it for, you know, for record sales. Okay. Oh, they're just doing it to get more. Okay. I have no problem with it. 

MARY: Whatever. Yeah. Me either. I don't think that's true.

KASIE: By all means, okay. So there's that one side. And again, that's fine. And then the other side is this could be real. Right? And I think that this could be real side is really compelling for a number of reasons of course because through her lyrics, through her songs,  all the sad stories. I just watched her go through all this right and and of course, she gets torn down to the media for two reasons, one for serial dating and then the flip of it is for writing songs about being a serial dater, right. And then it seems like what we're seeing, and again, it could be a publicity stunt. But it seems like what we're seeing is somebody who has a career in his own right has plenty of competence in his own right, feels perfectly good about himself as a human being in his own right, and is glad to share a spotlight with her and it's almost in awe of her and how wonderful she is and that worship that all of us feel for her… when we see him demonstrate it to is gratifying because we think she deserves it. And we think she deserves somebody who believes she deserves it and is not ashamed or unwilling to give it.

MARY: Right exactly. And who’s confident… I think you've hit on it right there… who's confident enough to stand he's, granted I'm not taking anything from Travis, but stand in her shadow a bit and really support her right because she's now a billionaire and not because she's a billionaire. But because she's so creative because she's so talented. She's gotten to that financial place because of her talents. And because of her work ethic, right? 

KASIE: Oh the work ethic, easy. 

MARY: The work ethic is crazy, right? And so which we also aspire to but I don't I don't know about that. 

KASIE: She's a once in a lifetime talent. And I'm perfectly fine with that. 

MARY: Exactly. I want to be Taylor Swift. But the great thing is we can learn from it. Right? And all the NFL is learning from it right now. Right? 

KASIE: I gotta say there's two pieces of that that I think are really brilliant. I know your classes look at digital media… look at digital governorship too and the first one was with the New Heights podcast, watching Travis Kelce watch the video of the couple that had been the Travis Taylor couple. I don't know if you saw this right.

MARY: Yes I did. 

KASIE: So first of all, to back up just a little bit…

MARY: It was Jax and her… putting him on the map…

KASIE: But yeah, so there's a big trend on the internet of women talking about how Taylor Swift put Travis Kelce on the map people you know I don't even watch the NFL but I'll watch it for Taylor Swift like it became this like running joke around women who know better, but are intentionally trapping their husbands into like, you know, oh, I don't even know who this person is. Like, I mean, she made him famous. And these men just like losing their minds, because they're angry. She's not even a thing. It doesn't even matter. Okay, so that piece of it was really funny when the NFL changed their twitter handle to Taylor's version, right and so then you get the mash up of her saying. So now when you see it says Taylor's version it's because I own it. And then they show the NFL thing. This is Taylor's version. Taylor owns the NFL, like, like all of this was really great publicity for the NFL. Really great publicity for Taylor Swift and for Travis Kelce. And I think again, even if it is a publicity stunt, I'm here for it because it was clever. It was new, it felt fresh and it felt real and authentic. And then the other part was, of course, like I said with the Halloween costume.

Jax is talking about her putting him on the map. And he just falls for it, the boyfriend supposedly falls for it And he’s like. Oh, come on. He actually puts his face on the map. And then Travis is watching and he goes oh, I get it. She put me on the map. That's pretty funny. Like he's in on a joke. It's okay with him. He's not feeling ashamed, but he's not wanting to hide it and pull it off. He's not throwing a temper tantrum about it. And that just shows this like grown up man behaving like a grown-up man. And I think I want to be here for that too. I want to see more of that on the internet. 

MARY: We could have a whole nother podcast about just the romance and how Travis is a grown up man and the right person or the right type of person for her. They have the same energy. I don't want to go down this rabbit hole but they have the same energy. He matches her energy. If you saw the video of him at the Buenos Aires concert on his off week, he was cheering her on just like she was cheering him on at the game she went to right. 

KASIEL Yeah, well you see videos of him when she's not even around. Like Travis just being Travis is that way. There's a kind of like goof factor to it. There's a kind of so much confidence and who they are and how they are. Yeah, I think you're exactly right. This is good. And again, this is a love story. We're all here for it. We want the best thing for both of them either, of course like nobody's over here going. If they break up, we're gonna be pissed at them. It's not like that, everyone’s like along for the ride. We're just glad to see two people who we all believe deserve happily ever after maybe maybe seeking one. 

MARY: Yeah, now we can't ignore the... I don't want to go down this rabbit hole but we can't ignore the people who are the naysayers and I just ignore… I mean, we can't ignore them. That's the way I should have said that. We can't ignore them and I do ignore them. Because like you said, the whole marketing, everything is brilliant about it. And just to talk a little bit to remind some of our viewers or listeners about the impact it's had on the NFL, not just the ticket jersey. The Jersey sales but ticket sales to actual games have gone up. Where people, the Chiefs games in particular, or even the Eagles games where people thought Taylor might be at the Eagles game. A few weeks ago those ticket sales went up and of course ESPN and the viewing viewership on TV went up as well, which of course, increases financial gains there for ESPN and NFL both. Right? Yeah. 

KASIE: So it's just a good thing all around. And I think for the haters that are out there, either sick of it or they don't know anything about it or they don't care about it. They don't want to talk about it, all of that, you know, it goes back to what Taylor said about if somebody is gonna make you feel bad about the thing that gets you excited, then that's just the worst kind of person. Like, why would you make people feel bad for the thing that gets them excited? It makes them happy, like, just let them be happy. You know, like, I just, yeah, just…

MARY: That's why all of us are drawn to her because of that mentality. Right? And, and we know that she's been through it. And to come out and to see the happiness on her face right now. Just the joy and the… she's at peace right now. Right? She's loving everything that she's doing. And then when she's with Travis it's just great. I could just talk about it forever. 

KASIE: But I'm here for it.

MARY: I know we've gone down a rabbit hole a little bit. For our listeners and our viewers. Hopefully you've come along right along with us. But we also have given some golden nuggets here in this podcast, some Easter eggs if you will, not as clever as Taylor has done them. But things that you can take with you. Take away. Always look, I tell my students all the time, look for the blueprint in your story. Look for the blueprint that people can take with them into their lives. And we try to do that with this podcast every episode that we have, and talking to people about their stories and having conversations like we are with Dr. Kasie Whitener here.

And so there are things that you can take and apply to your business or figure out how to apply to your business or your entrepreneurial venture whatever wherever and whatever stage you're in, right?

KASIE: I think the most useful thing is, it's a climb. I mean, it's a climb. Taylor Swift didn't wake up at 17. And have an impact of billions of dollars, you know, on global markets. That's not how things worked out, but she's been working. She had a vision for what she wanted to do, for how she wanted her career to go. When she left country music, she wanted to sing her own songs. That was a huge risk. I remember being in a conversation with my brother, uh, when she left when she decided to walk away from her label and country music because she wanted to sing her own songs and he was like she's gonna fail and I was like, I don't know, I wouldn't bet against her. I'll be honest with you. I wouldn't bet against Taylor Swift. And here she is, you know, having rewritten the rules in her own industry to fit things the way she wants it to work. And she and she gets knocked down. She just gets back up again. I mean, things that should… if you think of the Kanye…I mean, it's humiliation, basically, public and professional humiliation. And she just came right back. Right? And so, and I know that's not.. I say that she came right back making it sound like it's easy. 

MARY: It took two years for her to…

KASIE: And the way she wrote about it and the way she talked about it. The way she processed it and brought us all along for that journey too because who she is as a songwriter. You know when we see all of that I think that's why we want such good things for her now. If you know her through her music that well then you go okay, we're at the climax of the story now, right, where all the things are supposed to be working out the way they're supposed to work out. And I want to see the beautiful things happening for her. 

MARY: So yeah, oh, I love that. I do want to circle back around to the idea of bringing people along with you. Because one of the two things she's done recently that I think we all should point out is that she's used the status that she has to help. I mean, obviously, we talked about philanthropic ventures and things like that, but in her contract with Universal and in her contract, she made them agree to give more artists more percentage of their streaming rights, you know that you get paid so much for every time you stream, it’'s pennies on the dollar, right, right. But in that negotiation process, she got Universal to give all of their clients, all of their musicians, all of their bands, singers, everybody, more percentage from their streaming rights. That's huge. Because they knew what they would lose. 

KASIE: Yeah, exactly. It’s industry leadership but saying I have a position of power and I'm gonna use it to lead the industry and I think that's a very mature place for her to be. It was mature for her to walk away from country music when she was however old, you know, in her 20s. But this is a really mature thing for her to do this late in her career, even to say I'm an industry leader, I have industry power, and I'm going to use that power to improve the lives of all of my fellow workers.I mean, you don't need a union when you've got somebody in a powerful position that willing to work for you. Right? 

MARY: And willing to work for you is the key thing there. And then the same thing with the Eras tour and the movie, right? She bypassed the studios to get it out to the theaters because the studios wanted to take a higher percentage than she knew that she would be able to get if she just dealt directly with theaters. I

KASIE: I love how aware we are of the inner workings of Hollywood and movie theaters now, because of Taylor Swift. Like I love the visibility that we now all have to the system and where everybody takes their cut, because Taylor Swift was very clear about I'm doing it this way and here's why. And I think that if you're in an industry where somebody that powerful is calling you out for doing the wrong thing, or for behaving in the wrong way, you got to take a look at yourself and be like, Okay, our business model just got called out for being shady and we need to figure out a way to… and you just have to compete. I think that's the biggest part is like we see industries where competition has been driven out by bad practices, you know, just just bad practices. And when you have somebody like Taylor Swift come in and say we're just not going to do things that way. You have to compete. And I think sometimes companies get a little bit slack, a little bit lazy, they start taking things for granted, and they get caught blindsided and they're bad about it, and they'll say terrible things about it. But at the end of the day, if you're not competing, you're not winning in your market. You know, you got nobody to blame but yourself.

 

MARY: I think we could drop the mic on that one. Because that's true, right? Yeah. Dr. Kasie Whitener and my friend, thank you so much for joining me. This has been a great conversation. We could talk about this for hours, but she has to go pick up her little Swiftie, her daughter. Kasie, thanks so much.

 

KASIE: Thank you so much for having me, Mary. And anytime you want to talk entrepreneurship, I'm your gal. And if you add Taylor Swift, I’m here for it, I'm absolutely here for it.

 

MARY: We love it. Absolutely. Thank you so much.

 

MARY: All right, Class E Podcast listeners, that does it for this episode of the Class E Podcast. Remember that  this is the podcast is brought to you through a partnership between the Hill Institute for Innovation and Entrepreneurship, and the Communication Studies Department here at Furman University. I'm your host, Mary Sturgill. This is produced by our student producer Isabella Martinez, who you got to see in this podcast episode. By the way, remember that you can find us wherever you listen to your podcast, and on YouTube as well. So please subscribe, hit those subscribe buttons wherever is most convenient for you. But until next time, everybody take a page out of Taylor's book and dream big.