Missional Church Planting, with Brad Brisco
Conversing with Mark Labberton
Church planting is thriving at the very moment the church faces a crisis of credibility. What if the problem isn’t too few churches—but too narrow a vision of what church is for? In this episode with Mark Labberton, Brad Brisco reflects on church planting shaped by Christology before strategy, mission before institution, and incarnation before programs. Together they discuss missionary imagination in the modern West, co-vocational ministry, alternative expressions of church, micro-church networks, church growth assumptions, vocation and work, justice and proximity, and what it means to...
info_outline
Moral Resistance, with Jonathan Wilson-Hartgrove
Conversing with Mark Labberton
Christian faith has been politicized. Arguably, this is not new. But what we see in America and other societies has a jarring impact for those who seek a credible public Christian faith. To examine how Christian faith has been politicized in recent years, preacher and public theologian Jonathan Wilson-Hartgrove joins Mark Labberton, asking what moral resistance requires in this authoritarian moment. “I couldn’t know Jesus in the fullness of who Jesus is without integrating faith and justice.” In this episode: Wilson-Hartgrove reflects on his Southern Baptist formation, his political...
info_outline
Venezuela, Power, and Idolatry, with Elizabeth Sendek and Julio Isaza
Conversing with Mark Labberton
As violence erupts around the world, how must we respond to those who worship power? In Venezuela, global power has reshaped lives overnight, and Elizabeth Sendek and Julio Isaza join Mark Labberton to reflect on faith, fear, and Christian witness amid political upheaval in Latin America. “It made me question, if power is the ultimate good, then questions of morality or theology have no place. We have chosen our idol.” Together they discuss how experiences of dictatorship, displacement, and pastoral caution shape Christian responses to invasion and regime change; the relationship between...
info_outline
Retired from Ministry, Not from the Gospel, with Kenneth Ulmer
Conversing with Mark Labberton
What happens when a long pastoral calling ends, friendships fade, and the church faces cultural fracture? Bishop Kenneth C. Ulmer (42 years in ministry at Faithful Central Bible Church in Inglewood, CA) joins Mark Labberton for a searching conversation about retirement from pastoral ministry, loneliness, leadership, and the meaning of credible witness in the Black church today. “Ministry can be a lonely business.” In this episode, Bishop Ulmer reflects on the stepping away after four decades of pastoral leadership, navigating aloneness, disrupted rhythms, and the spiritual costs of...
info_outline
How to Reframe an Angry Year, with Michael Wear
Conversing with Mark Labberton
Can joy be anything but denial in a rage-filled public life? Michael Wear joins Mark Labberton to reframe politics through the kingdom logic of hope, agency, and practices of silence and solitude. As 2025 closes amid political discord, we might all ask whether joy can be real in public life—without denial, escapism, or contempt. "… Joy is a pervasive and constant sense of wellbeing." In this conversation, Michael Wear and Mark Labberton reflect on joy, hope, responsibility, and agency amid a reaction-driven politics. Together they discuss the realism of Advent; the limits of our control;...
info_outline
Mary / Christmas, with Matthew Milliner
Conversing with Mark Labberton
What if taking Mary seriously actually deepens, rather than distracts from, devotion to Jesus? Art historian and theologian Matthew Milliner joins Mark Labberton to explore that possibility through history, theology, and the Incarnation. In a searching conversation about Mary, the meaning of Marian devotion, and the mystery of the Incarnation, they draw from early Christianity, Protestant theology, and global Christianity, as Milliner reframes Mary as a figure who deepens devotion to Christ rather than distracting from it. “I don’t see how anyone cannot understand this to be the revolution...
info_outline
Faith, Justice, and the Workplace, with Elaine Howard Ecklund
Conversing with Mark Labberton
How should Christian faith shape work in an era of pluralism, fear, and systemic inequality? Sociologist Elaine Howard Ecklund (Rice University) is presenting new insights for faith at work through data, theology, and lived experience. “People love to talk about individual ethics … but what was really hard for them to think about was, what would it mean to make our workplace better as a whole?” In this episode, Ecklund joins Mark Labberton to reflect on moving from individual morality toward systemic responsibility, dignity, and other-centred Christian witness at work. Together they...
info_outline
Toxic Foreign Policy and Citizen Diplomacy, with Daniel Zoughbie
Conversing with Mark Labberton
As global powers double down on militarism and defense, Daniel Zoughbie argues that the most transformative force in the Middle East has always come from citizen diplomacy. A complex-systems scientist and diplomatic historian, Zoughbie joins Mark Labberton to explore how twelve US presidents have “kicked the hornet’s nest” of the modern Middle East. Drawing on his work in global health and his new book Kicking the Hornet’s Nest: U.S. Foreign Policy in the Middle East from Truman to Trump, Zoughbie contrasts the view from refugee camps and micro-clinic networks with the view from the...
info_outline
Jewish Perspectives on America, Civics, and Religion, with Michael Holzman
Conversing with Mark Labberton
Rabbi Michael G. Holzman joins Mark Labberton to explore the formation of his Jewish faith, the pastoral realities of congregational life, and the multi-faith initiative he helped launch for the nation’s 250th anniversary, Faith 250. He reflects on his early experiences of wonder in the natural world, the mentors who opened Torah to him, and the intellectual humility that shapes Jewish approaches to truth. Their conversation moves through the unexpected depth of congregational ministry, the spiritual and emotional weight of the pandemic, the complexities of speaking about God in contemporary...
info_outline
How a Friendsgiving Rescued Me from Despair, with Mark Labberton
Conversing with Mark Labberton
In this Thanksgiving reflection, Mark Labberton opens up about a period of darkness and despair, when as a younger man he considered ending his life. But when he was invited to share Thanksgiving dinner with a local couple, his eyes were opened to concrete acts of hope, friendship, and joy—all embodied in the simple feast of a community “Friendsgiving” potluck. Every year since, Mark calls these friends on Thanksgiving Day, in gratitude for and celebration of the hospitality, generosity, beauty, friendship, and hope he encountered that day. Here Mark reflects on the emotional and...
info_outlineMillions of people today face dire medical and mental health challenges. What role should the church play in foreign humanitarian aid to address starvation and deadly illness? In this episode, Eric Ha, CEO of Medical Teams International, joins Mark Labberton for a sobering, hopeful conversation on global humanitarian crises and the role of the church in responding to both the physical and spiritual needs of those who are suffering. Drawing from his years at International Justice Mission and now at Medical Teams International, Ha shares vivid accounts from refugee camps in East Africa and migrant communities in Colombia. He reflects on the collapse of US foreign aid, the limits of humanitarian response, and the urgent need for churches to reclaim their historic role in caring for the vulnerable. Ha wrestles candidly with the calling of Christian communities to embody God’s expansive love even amid staggering need.
Episode Highlights
- “These humans that bear the image of the divine and the eternal, and the holy and the sacred.”
- “Last year, Medical Teams staff helped deliver fifty thousand babies—that's a delivery every ten minutes, somewhere around the world in these extraordinarily harsh settings.”
- “Finding the thread and kernel of hope is actually a lot more challenging.”
- “For thousands of years prior to the UN, the infrastructure and ecosystem for the care of refugees was the church. It was God’s people.”
- “The gospel is an outward pushing invitation.… It is the pushing out actually into the far and remote places of suffering in need, and to see the presence of God.”
Helpful Links and Resources
- Medical Teams International
- International Justice Mission
- UNHCR: The UN Refugee Agency
- PEPFAR—The US President’s Emergency Plan for AIDS Relief
- Clinton Global Initiative
About Eric Ha
Eric Ha is the chief executive officer of Medical Teams International, a Christian humanitarian relief organization providing life-saving medical care for people in crisis worldwide. Before joining Medical Teams, he served more than a decade in senior leadership roles at International Justice Mission, advancing global efforts to combat human trafficking and slavery. A lawyer by training, Ha brings a deep commitment to justice, compassion, and the mobilization of the church in service of the vulnerable.
Show Notes
Global Humanitarian Crises and Refugee Care
- Eric Ha shares his journey from law and IJM to leading Medical Teams International
- Medical Teams founded in response to Cambodia’s killing fields, continuing nearly 50 years of healthcare missions
- Primary healthcare for refugees: maternal care, vaccinations, mosquito nets, antimalarials, antidiarrheals, and mental health
- Serving 9 million people in East Africa, including Uganda, Ethiopia, Tanzania, and Sudan
- Refugee camps lack electricity, clean water, and adequate shelter—average displacement nearly 20 years
- Medical Teams delivers maternal care that dramatically reduces mortality, helping deliver 50,000 babies last year
Healthcare and Human Dignity
- The crisis is not statistics—it’s humans bearing God’s image, glimpses of laughter, joy, and resilience
- Colombia: working with Venezuelan migrants amid drastic cuts in U.S. aid (down to 10% of prior levels)
- Withdrawal of foreign aid leaves communities devastated and forces NGOs to scale back
- Transition from justice work at IJM to medical humanitarian work brings both immediacy of impact and insufficiency of resources
Hope and Despair in Humanitarian Work
- Theories of change at IJM allowed for hope in systemic reform; displacement crises feel harder to solve
- Challenge of holding onto hope in the face of preventable death and suffering
- Churches historically provided refugee care before the UN; today, withdrawal of aid exposes the need for church re-engagement
- Need to reimagine church-government partnerships in humanitarian response
Empathy, Collaboration, and Mental Health
- Empathy as essential orientation in humanitarian work, easily lost without intentionality
- Competitiveness and survivalism among NGOs risks eclipsing empathy
- Mental health needs are massive: trauma among children in refugee camps threatens future stability
- Clinton Global Initiative highlights Medical Teams’ commitment to expand mental health care for children in Sudan
- Training local health workers and communities to recognize trauma and create safe spaces for children
Invitation to the Church and Listeners
- The gospel calls us outward, not inward—expanding our experience of God’s vastness through engagement with suffering
- Churches must discern how to integrate humanitarian concerns without distraction, embracing their historic role in refugee care
- Prayer requests: for hope, for patience to wait on the Lord, and for wisdom in making hard decisions
- “We are invited into a different orientation—the empathy piece is so critical because it is the thing that allows us to engage.”
Production Credits
Conversing is produced and distributed in partnership with Comment magazine and Fuller Seminary.