Episode 157-Planning Your Exit From the Law
Counsel to Counsel - Career Advice for Lawyers
Release Date: 06/07/2025
Episode 162-"What Do Lawyers Really Want?" with Philippe Danielides
Counsel to Counsel - Career Advice for Lawyers
Many lawyers are clear about what they don’t want in their career. But they struggle to define what they do want. In this episode of Counsel to Counsel, Steve Seckler speaks with , former Biglaw associate, communications consultant, coach, and author of . Philippe shares insights from his own career journey—spanning Biglaw, corporate communications, solo coaching, authorship, and now his current role with the Career Design team at Latham & Watkins. He explains why career clarity is often so elusive, how lawyers can expand their range of possibilities, and why “freedom”...
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Episode 161- Managing Law Firms Across the Generations with Daya Naef
Counsel to Counsel - Career Advice for Lawyers
In this episode of Counsel to Counsel, Steve Seckler speaks with attorney, entrepreneur, and legal business strategist , founder of The Success Partner, about how law firms can navigate the generational handoff in leadership. As founding partners prepare to step back, younger attorneys are stepping up—bringing fresh perspectives on technology, especially AI, and new expectations for work-life balance, flexibility, and firm culture. Steve and Daya explore The tensions and opportunities between senior and next-generation lawyers Succession planning strategies that work (and those...
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Episode 160- How AI is Disrupting Digital Marketing for Lawyers with Annie Stern
Counsel to Counsel - Career Advice for Lawyers
Artificial intelligence is dramatically changing how legal services are marketed—and how clients find lawyers. In this episode, Steve Seckler speaks with Annie Stern, a seasoned digital marketing strategist, about what lawyers need to know to stay relevant in the AI era. Key Takeaways: AI tools like ChatGPT are reshaping how clients discover and vet lawyers, including those who rely heavily on referrals. A strong digital footprint—updated bios, accurate directories, and mentions on reputable sites—is now critical for visibility. Traditional SEO isn’t dead but must be complemented...
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Episode 159-How (Not) to Communicate Like a Lawyer
Counsel to Counsel - Career Advice for Lawyers
As lawyers, we are trained to analyze, critique, and mitigate risk — all essential skills in practice. But when we bring that same mindset into our everyday conversations, we can unintentionally undermine connection and trust. In this episode, Stephen Seckler explores how the habits that make us successful advocates can backfire in networking, business development, and even personal relationships. Stephen breaks down some of the most common communication traps lawyers fall into: Leading with skepticism instead of curiosity Listening to respond instead of truly listening to understand...
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Episode 158-Marketing and Selfcare are Habit Forming
Counsel to Counsel - Career Advice for Lawyers
In this solo episode, attorney Stephen Seckler reflects on the importance of building small, consistent habits—both for professional success and personal wellbeing. Drawing on his own efforts to reduce news and screen time, improve sleep hygiene, and maintain dental health, Stephen underscores how selfcare routines can create calm and clarity in stressful times. He also highlights how the same principle applies to business development: splashy efforts are no substitute for consistent outreach and visibility. Whether it's connecting with referral sources, posting on LinkedIn, or attending...
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Episode 157-Planning Your Exit From the Law
Counsel to Counsel - Career Advice for Lawyers
Many lawyers find themselves questioning whether the traditional practice of law is the right long-term fit. In this episode, host Stephen Seckler speaks with Kim Fine and Neil Handwerker, co-founders of , a platform designed to help lawyers explore and transition to non-legal careers. Kim Fine brings a wealth of experience as a legal industry executive, including her time as Managing Director at ALM (American Lawyer Media). Neil Handwerker is a former practicing attorney and seasoned legal recruiter who has advised lawyers on career transitions for decades. Together, they launched ex...
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Episode 156-Think Like a Lawyer, Act Like an Entrepreneur – Chapter One
Counsel to Counsel - Career Advice for Lawyers
In this special solo episode of Counsel to Counsel, I take a break from my usual interview format to share something personal: the audio version of Chapter One of my new book, Think Like a Lawyer, Act Like an Entrepreneur, just published by the American Bar Association. This book is a field guide for lawyers who are skeptical about marketing and allergic to the idea of “sales.” It’s designed to help you shift your mindset, find a more authentic and comfortable approach to business development, and ultimately grow your practice in a way that feels right to you. I don’t plan to release...
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Episode 155: From Lawyering to Legal Tech with Ben Chiriboga
Counsel to Counsel - Career Advice for Lawyers
In this episode of Counsel to Counsel, Steve speaks with legal tech executive and former practicing attorney , founding team member of , a legal CRM platform built specifically for law firms. Ben shares how Nexl is transforming how lawyers manage client relationships and streamline business development—and offers a candid look at his own journey from litigator to legal tech entrepreneur. 💡 In This Episode: What is a CRM, and why do lawyers need one? How Nexl helps lawyers stay on top of relationship-building without relying on manual data entry Nexl’s legal-specific...
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Episode 154- The Latest Research from the NALP Foundation and What it Means for Your Career
Counsel to Counsel - Career Advice for Lawyers
In this episode, Steve speaks with the administrative team at the NALP Foundation, a nonprofit research organization focused on the advancement of the legal profession. They explore recent data on associate hiring, attrition, and retention—highlighting what lawyers can learn from these trends to shape more satisfying careers. 💡 Topics Covered: Why lawyers are leaving law firms—and why some are choosing to stay The top factors driving associate retention (hint: it’s not just about money) What the research says about generational differences and shifting career expectations How...
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Episode 153- The Role of Job Boards in Career Exploration
Counsel to Counsel - Career Advice for Lawyers
In this episode, I take another break from interviewing guests to share some quick thoughts on how to use job boards effectively in your job search. While I spend a lot of time encouraging clients to make networking the central focus of their career exploration, job postings still have value—if used strategically. I share practical tips on how to leverage listings for market research, generate new ideas, and customize your applications to stand out.
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Many lawyers find themselves questioning whether the traditional practice of law is the right long-term fit. In this episode, host Stephen Seckler speaks with Kim Fine and Neil Handwerker, co-founders of ex judicata, a platform designed to help lawyers explore and transition to non-legal careers.
Kim Fine brings a wealth of experience as a legal industry executive, including her time as Managing Director at ALM (American Lawyer Media). Neil Handwerker is a former practicing attorney and seasoned legal recruiter who has advised lawyers on career transitions for decades. Together, they launched ex judicata to address a growing need: helping lawyers find more fulfilling career paths outside of traditional legal roles.
In This Episode:
* The origin story of ex judicata and the founders' earlier work with Fulcrum Information Services
* Common reasons lawyers want to transition out of practice: burnout, billable hour pressure, and desire for team-oriented environments
* How ex judicata supports lawyers: diagnostic tools, job boards, interview archives, and online courses
* Popular course offerings like financial fluency and data analytics, tailored to JD career pivots
* Mindset shifts and soft skills lawyers need to develop when leaving the profession
* Guidance on timing your transition, especially when you’re financially dependent on your legal job
* The importance of self-reflection, side projects, and informational interviews in career exploration
* Support for 3Ls affected by the Federal hiring freeze
* What’s next for ex judicata—including a new initiative described as “revolutionary”
Additional Resources:
- · Episode 155: From Lawyering to Legal Tech with Ben Chiriboga
- · Episode 147-Your Legal Career: If It’s Broke, Fix It or Move On?
- · Episode 142-Winning in Your Own Court with Dena Lefkowitz
- · Episode 139-Conquering Perfectionism in the Practice of Law with Jordana Confino
- · Episode 124-Lauren Rikleen on Social Justice and Defending American Democracy
- · Episode 119-From Law Firm Associate to In-House Operations-With Shawn Hoyt
- · Episode 114-From Biglaw to In-house to Business Role and Back Again with Carl Berglind
- · Episode 113-From Litigation to Trial Consulting with Marc Diller
- · Episode 112-From Corporate Counsel to Management Consultant-Leveraging Your Legal Career with David Lesser