Episode 157-Planning Your Exit From the Law
Counsel to Counsel - Career Advice for Lawyers
Release Date: 06/07/2025
Counsel to Counsel-Coming in Late January 2026
Counsel to Counsel - Career Advice for Lawyers
We are taking a pause until mid-late January 2026 for some upgrades. We are adding a YouTube feed to our mix for listeners who prefer video and we are lining up some great guests to talk to you about your legal career. We are grateful to our listeners and guests who have made Counsel to Counsel a labor of love. Until then, best wishes for a happy and healthy New Year!
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Episode 166-Marketing for Introverts with Saja Raoof, Border Wall Destroyer
Counsel to Counsel - Career Advice for Lawyers
In this episode, Steve speaks with , an immigration lawyer based in the Bay Area, about how introverted lawyers can build thriving practices without pretending to be extroverts. A self-proclaimed introvert and creative marketer, Saja shares how she transformed networking anxiety into authentic relationship-building through her “Wallflower Power” approach and how coaching and ProVisors played key roles in her success. Topics Discussed How hiring a coach in 2018 helped shifted her mindset from isolation to confident business owner. The role of ProVisors and the pandemic’s move...
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Episode 165-Retirement on Trial with Steve Herman
Counsel to Counsel - Career Advice for Lawyers
In this episode of Counsel to Counsel, Stephen Seckler speaks with Steve Herman, a civil litigator and documentary filmmaker from Vancouver, Canada. After more than 35 years in practice, Steve turned the camera on himself to explore one of the biggest transitions lawyers face—retirement. His film, Retirement on Trial, which he produced with his filmmaker wife, Evelyn Neaman, uses humor and introspection to examine what it means to step away from a career that has long defined one’s identity. In this episode, Steve Seckler speaks with Steve about his journey in making the film Through...
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Episode 164-Experiencing Renewal in the Jewish New Year
Counsel to Counsel - Career Advice for Lawyers
In this episode of Counsel to Counsel, I reflect on some of the themes of the Jewish New Year and the importance of self reflection (and the fact that you get to do it twice a year if you happen to be Jewish!)
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Episode 163- How to Use Book Publishing to Build Your Brand-with Melanie Herschorn
Counsel to Counsel - Career Advice for Lawyers
Publishing a book may feel like an overwhelming project, but for lawyers it can be one of the most effective ways to build credibility, attract new clients, and open doors to new opportunities. In this episode of Counsel to Counsel, host Stephen Seckler speaks with , publisher and book marketing strategist, about how attorneys can transform their expertise into a powerful marketing asset. Melanie draws on her diverse career in journalism, PR, entrepreneurship, and publishing to explain: Why publishing a book can significantly enhance your visibility and authority as a lawyer Common myths...
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Episode 162-"What Do Lawyers Really Want?" with Philippe Danielides
Counsel to Counsel - Career Advice for Lawyers
Many lawyers are clear about what they don’t want in their career. But they struggle to define what they do want. In this episode of Counsel to Counsel, Steve Seckler speaks with , former Biglaw associate, communications consultant, coach, and author of . Philippe shares insights from his own career journey—spanning Biglaw, corporate communications, solo coaching, authorship, and now his current role with the Career Design team at Latham & Watkins. He explains why career clarity is often so elusive, how lawyers can expand their range of possibilities, and why “freedom”...
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Episode 161- Managing Law Firms Across the Generations with Daya Naef
Counsel to Counsel - Career Advice for Lawyers
In this episode of Counsel to Counsel, Steve Seckler speaks with attorney, entrepreneur, and legal business strategist , founder of The Success Partner, about how law firms can navigate the generational handoff in leadership. As founding partners prepare to step back, younger attorneys are stepping up—bringing fresh perspectives on technology, especially AI, and new expectations for work-life balance, flexibility, and firm culture. Steve and Daya explore The tensions and opportunities between senior and next-generation lawyers Succession planning strategies that work (and those...
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Episode 160- How AI is Disrupting Digital Marketing for Lawyers with Annie Stern
Counsel to Counsel - Career Advice for Lawyers
Artificial intelligence is dramatically changing how legal services are marketed—and how clients find lawyers. In this episode, Steve Seckler speaks with Annie Stern, a seasoned digital marketing strategist, about what lawyers need to know to stay relevant in the AI era. Key Takeaways: AI tools like ChatGPT are reshaping how clients discover and vet lawyers, including those who rely heavily on referrals. A strong digital footprint—updated bios, accurate directories, and mentions on reputable sites—is now critical for visibility. Traditional SEO isn’t dead but must be complemented...
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Episode 159-How (Not) to Communicate Like a Lawyer
Counsel to Counsel - Career Advice for Lawyers
As lawyers, we are trained to analyze, critique, and mitigate risk — all essential skills in practice. But when we bring that same mindset into our everyday conversations, we can unintentionally undermine connection and trust. In this episode, Stephen Seckler explores how the habits that make us successful advocates can backfire in networking, business development, and even personal relationships. Stephen breaks down some of the most common communication traps lawyers fall into: Leading with skepticism instead of curiosity Listening to respond instead of truly listening to understand...
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Episode 158-Marketing and Selfcare are Habit Forming
Counsel to Counsel - Career Advice for Lawyers
In this solo episode, attorney Stephen Seckler reflects on the importance of building small, consistent habits—both for professional success and personal wellbeing. Drawing on his own efforts to reduce news and screen time, improve sleep hygiene, and maintain dental health, Stephen underscores how selfcare routines can create calm and clarity in stressful times. He also highlights how the same principle applies to business development: splashy efforts are no substitute for consistent outreach and visibility. Whether it's connecting with referral sources, posting on LinkedIn, or attending...
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Many lawyers find themselves questioning whether the traditional practice of law is the right long-term fit. In this episode, host Stephen Seckler speaks with Kim Fine and Neil Handwerker, co-founders of ex judicata, a platform designed to help lawyers explore and transition to non-legal careers.
Kim Fine brings a wealth of experience as a legal industry executive, including her time as Managing Director at ALM (American Lawyer Media). Neil Handwerker is a former practicing attorney and seasoned legal recruiter who has advised lawyers on career transitions for decades. Together, they launched ex judicata to address a growing need: helping lawyers find more fulfilling career paths outside of traditional legal roles.
In This Episode:
* The origin story of ex judicata and the founders' earlier work with Fulcrum Information Services
* Common reasons lawyers want to transition out of practice: burnout, billable hour pressure, and desire for team-oriented environments
* How ex judicata supports lawyers: diagnostic tools, job boards, interview archives, and online courses
* Popular course offerings like financial fluency and data analytics, tailored to JD career pivots
* Mindset shifts and soft skills lawyers need to develop when leaving the profession
* Guidance on timing your transition, especially when you’re financially dependent on your legal job
* The importance of self-reflection, side projects, and informational interviews in career exploration
* Support for 3Ls affected by the Federal hiring freeze
* What’s next for ex judicata—including a new initiative described as “revolutionary”
Additional Resources:
- · Episode 155: From Lawyering to Legal Tech with Ben Chiriboga
- · Episode 147-Your Legal Career: If It’s Broke, Fix It or Move On?
- · Episode 142-Winning in Your Own Court with Dena Lefkowitz
- · Episode 139-Conquering Perfectionism in the Practice of Law with Jordana Confino
- · Episode 124-Lauren Rikleen on Social Justice and Defending American Democracy
- · Episode 119-From Law Firm Associate to In-House Operations-With Shawn Hoyt
- · Episode 114-From Biglaw to In-house to Business Role and Back Again with Carl Berglind
- · Episode 113-From Litigation to Trial Consulting with Marc Diller
- · Episode 112-From Corporate Counsel to Management Consultant-Leveraging Your Legal Career with David Lesser