Ep. 21: Bruce Springsteen: 'Deliver Me from Nowhere' and Storytelling Through Songwriting

00:00:00 - Nate

Welcome to Adaptation, the book-to-movie podcast. I'm Nate.

00:00:12 - Chris

And I'm Chris.

00:00:13 - Nate

And Chris, you're back in the United States.

00:00:16 - Chris

Yes.

00:00:17 - Nate

Isn't it awesome here?

00:00:18 - Chris

We're in the same country again. Unbelievable. I was actually very excited to be back, and then the second I stepped out of JFK, I was like, oh, what have I done?

00:00:29 - Nate

Yeah, it's a fresh hell pretty much every day.

00:00:33 - Chris

But we aren't in New York yet. We are up in West Haven, Connecticut. Same with some of Blair's family. It is delightful, apartment looking. And you are settled into your new place, yeah?

00:00:45 - Nate

Settled into my new place. I'm down the street from a movie theater, so I'm kind of just living the cinephile's dream. I got subscribed to one of those. You pay a few bucks a month and you can get basically free movies, 50-cent movies, as much as you want.

00:01:00 - Chris

Wait, what? What is that?

00:01:02 - Nate

It's called Regal Unlimited. AMC has one, I know, as well. I forget what theirs is called. But I pay 25 bucks a month, and for a 50-cent booking fee, I can go to any movie I want.

00:01:15 - Chris

That's incredible.

00:01:17 - Nate

Yeah. You can hold five seats at a time. So I've got a few booked out now for the next couple movies that I want to see. Like I said, it's like 10 minutes away, so it's basically traffic-proof, almost. And I know exactly how long the ads run, pretty much, so I just go late. And last night I was like 20 minutes late, maybe, to the showing, because I kind of was working late and lost track of time and didn't miss a minute of the movie. Wow. Yeah, so I'm going all the time and I'm having a blast.

00:01:52 - Chris

Oh my gosh, that's amazing. That is literally built for Nate Day.

00:01:56 - Nate

It is. And I love, I mean, of course I love going to movies with other people, but I'm a fan of a solo theater trip too, so I'm kind of on cloud nine over here.

00:02:06 - Chris

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Awesome.

00:02:08 - Nate

Yeah. But what have you been reading?

00:02:11 - Chris

I've had a couple that I've been working through. I've got one I can't wait to tell you about that's also about the same length as that massive one I told you about. I felt like it was recent. Now that I think about it, it was probably two months ago. Pillars of the Earth. Do you remember that? The Ken Follett?

00:02:29 - Nate

Yes, I remember you telling me about it.

00:02:32 - Chris

And it was like a thousand pages. I actually took a picture and forgot to send it to you. There was a musical version of that playing in Madrid the day that we landed in Europe.

00:02:40 - Nate

They make musicals out of the weirdest shit, man.

00:02:43 - Chris

They will really make a musical out of anything. Shocker, we did not go see it. Yeah. But this is about the same length, weighing in at like a thousand pages. I'm maybe halfway through that. That's taken me forever. But since we last recorded, I finished The Haunting of Hill House, which I believe they made a show out of.

00:03:01 - Nate

I think so. I think it's a show. Yeah, it's a Netflix property for sure.

00:03:06 - Chris

Shirley Jackson. Yeah, I wasn't sure if we were gonna record it at some point or not, but I had exactly 20 euros left in cash at the Dublin airport on Sunday. And so I just went and found one. And that and a magazine were 20 euros. Oh, perfect. Cool. And then it was a 25 hour back because we flew Dublin to JFK via Istanbul.

00:03:31 - Nate

Oh, yeah, yeah, we were.

00:03:33 - Chris

So I just read the whole thing between leaving Dublin and landing here. It was awesome.

00:03:38 - Nate

Yeah, we could definitely cover it someday. I didn't realize it was based on a book. I'm surprised you picked up a horror. Isn't it horror? I'm kind of surprised that you elected a horror title.

00:03:48 - Chris

Well, I was curious. I was feeling in the mood for it. You know, this time, sort of near Halloween every year, I kind of try to read one.

00:03:57 - Nate

Cool.

00:03:58 - Chris

You're absolutely correct. It's not my typical wheelhouse, but I know this is a classic. Yeah. And she as a horror writer is a classic. So just wanted to give it a crack. A lot of good reviews from very famous authors. I think there's one on the back from Stephen King that says this is like the classic haunted house tale.

00:04:21 - Nate

Okay.

00:04:22 - Chris

That's the only book I've finished. What have you been watching?

00:04:25 - Nate

I've been watching, well, like your sort of October Halloween kick. I'm trying this month at home, at least streaming at home, to fill in some of my horror blind spots. So I try and watch a spooky movie, you know, I guess every day or close to that. But that's all on my letterbox. The sort of fun new releases, besides, of course, the movie we're talking about today, which is Springsteen Deliver Me From Nowhere. I saw the Neutron movie. Atrocious.

00:04:55 - Chris

I was going to say I didn't hear good things.

00:04:57 - Nate

No, it was so, there's literally an ad for Honda in the middle of the movie. I just, I wanted to throw it. The movie is about how AI can be good if you use it the right way. And I just wanted to throw up. I watched The Woman in Cabin 10 on Netflix, which I think you and Blair would like a lot.

00:05:16 - Chris

I almost turned it on two nights ago, but it's another one based on a book.

00:05:20 - Nate

Yes, it is.

00:05:21 - Chris

So I want to read the book first.

00:05:22 - Nate

Very Agatha Christie. It's like if Agatha Christie lived in 2025.

00:05:27 - Chris

Yeah, yeah. Good movie, though.

00:05:29 - Nate

Fine. Certainly not bad.

00:05:32 - Chris

Okay.

00:05:33 - Nate

But fine. And then House of Dynamite is a new movie on Netflix from Catherine Bigelow, who's a director I really like. It was okay. It's about nuclear war, basically. And I said in my Letterboxd review that it's an obvious case of we really thought Kamala was going to win the election. Because it's like a little too real and a little too anxiety inducing. I was kind of like, I don't know if I needed that in my life right now. But it's still a decent movie. So that's what I've been watching. But there was a little piece of news that I shared on our Instagram story that intrigued you quite a bit the other day. And it sounds like you have some questions. The news was that Netflix has acquired the rights to film and television, basically, for the board game Settlers of Catan.

00:06:23 - Chris

Yeah, yeah. So my question is, what? A streaming service that also has an in-house studio for seemingly tending to be mediocre movies acquired the rights to a board game? Yeah. For what? Why? Yeah, that's my question in a nutshell.

00:06:42 - Nate

Well, basically, ever since the Barbie movie made $1 billion, Hollywood has been trying to mine toys and games. They think that might be the next sort of, as superhero content sort of dies out, they think maybe the next is going to be games, toys. Video games are really, really popular right now. So there's movies about Monopoly and The Sims in development as well. Like Bob the Builder, I think, is getting a movie.

00:07:09 - Chris

Well, that was a TV show.

00:07:10 - Nate

Right. This is sort of how Hollywood works, is that one thing clicks and they run with it. People didn't like Barbie because it was about a toy. People liked Barbies, actually, for the exact opposite reason, because it was about humanity and women.

00:07:23 - Chris

So people aren't going to like Catan because it's a toy. It's because they love sheep and bricks.

00:07:29 - Nate

Well, it's fairly close. You're going to scoff when I say this, but hear me out. It's somewhat similar to D&D, just in the fact that there's like, if I said, tell me a story set in the world of Settlers of Catan, you could tell me anything you wanted, because there is no like lore or world building boundaries.

00:07:46 - Chris

So that's a great point.

00:07:49 - Nate

I think that's what they're going for. Okay. And I imagine also that it will include probably the first thing we'll see is like a reality competition that's like life size, you know, like real build a house Catan.

00:08:01 - Chris

Out of rocks and sheep.

00:08:04 - Nate

Yeah.

00:08:05 - Chris

Stacked one on top of the other. Rock, sheep, rock, sheep. That gets shut down by the EPA real quick, I bet. Yeah, you got to imagine so.

00:08:13 - Nate

Anyway, today we are talking about Deliver Me From Nowhere, written by Warren Zane and adapted to film by Scott Cooper. Chris, why don't you teach us a little bit about Zane's book and what it is?

00:08:26 - Chris

Yeah, let's talk about Zane's book. Okay, this is a very curious one for us. This is, if I'm not mistaken, our first foray into nonfiction.

00:08:35 - Nate

I knew you were going to say that. Yes.

00:08:37 - Chris

Is it because it's written in the notes that we share?

00:08:40 - Nate

Oh, no, I don't look at your notes before.

00:08:42 - Chris

I don't look at yours either. Okay, that's interesting. That came into my mind immediately, not even for the purpose of putting it in the context of our episodes, but because as I went to write out discussion points, I was like, this is totally different. We don't have these fictional characters to track. We have this beloved superstar that everybody knows. Totally different ballgame, right?

00:09:04 - Nate

Right, right. Just for the listener's reference, who is that beloved superstar? I don't know if we've said his name yet.

00:09:09 - Chris

The boss. Yeah. Bruce Springsteen. If we have to say his name, you should stop listening right now. You're uninvited. No, no, that's not true. Politely, go away. No. We're here to gatekeep.

00:09:24 - Nate

Yeah, gatekeep the most famous musician to ever live.

00:09:27 - Chris

I know, right? And this is like the third book about him too. I mean, it's okay. Yes, it's wildly fantastic. Yes, Bruce Springsteen, the boss. Yeah. Real fun fact. This is actually, I think I put it later, and I'm going to mess up all my notes here. The first full-on essay, first three-page proper essay I ever had to write for school in seventh grade, you could pick anything, and I picked Bruce Springsteen.

00:09:53 - Nate

No way.

00:09:54 - Chris

That's cool. It was actually, Ms. Franson, if you ever hear this, it was actually a super cool assignment. You just go look up facts about a person or a place, and you make like 50 index cards, and then you sort them by relevance, and then those become the subjects of your sentences for the period. It's how I was taught to write a full essay. It was really cool, and it was about Bruce.

00:10:14 - Nate

Wow, that's cool. I wish I got to write about Bruce Springsteen.

00:10:17 - Chris

Well, at 12 or 13 years old, it was one of the CDs. I presume everyone had this. Your dad had like a little handful of CDs that just kind of rotated in the car. Yeah. Yeah, and like half of them were you too, and half of them were Springsteen.

00:10:31 - Nate

Yeah, pretty much. Yeah.

00:10:33 - Chris

Anyway, goodness gracious, the book, yeah, Deliver Me From Nowhere by Warren Zane, published in 2023, so a couple years old. I guess I had to give him time to make the movie.

00:10:43 - Nate

I guess, yeah.

00:10:44 - Chris

Basically, about the album Nebraska, and I'm going to say kind of, and we'll explain more later. Sure. Nebraska was Springsteen's sixth studio album, sandwiched between the massive double album The River, and this is what came out. Nebraska is the album that came out before Born in the USA. Yeah. And I mean, at the risk of offending people who are not Springsteen fans, I think there's not much we have to say about that massive, massive album. I think four singles from Born in the USA made it to top 10.

00:11:19 - Nate

Yeah, probably.

00:11:21 - Chris

Picture, picture of Bruce's butt in some nice jeans on the cover. Everybody loved that. I can see by your face you're going to edit that comment out.

00:11:30 - Nate

No, I'm not. I'm making sure that I'm not muted, honestly.

00:11:34 - Chris

Yeah, so a crazy point in his career, right?

00:11:39 - Nate

Yeah.

00:11:40 - Chris

Again, very different read and different to discuss because it is nonfiction. But essentially, the start is Zane, long, long time ago, in a band with his brother and their friends called the Del Fuegos, who I had never heard of, met Springsteen when he was touring with a band called the Del Fuegos.

00:11:59 - Nate

Oh, okay. Okay, got it.

00:12:01 - Chris

So this is the author, first time he met Springsteen, which was a cool story. But I'm really trying to cut out a lot of details from the story. If you want the details, go read it. There was just so much information. We have to stay much shallower.

00:12:13 - Nate

Yeah.

00:12:14 - Chris

I was shockingly not excited about this book.

00:12:18 - Nate

Wow.

00:12:20 - Chris

And I tried, I gave it a lot of thought. I think the issue is that I got a copy of the audio book read by the author. Okay. I was worried about getting a hold of it. This was like while we were transiting from London to Ireland. And I was worried about when a Kindle copy would come up from the library. So I just bought the audio book on Audible. Okay. Which was very frustrating because I got it from the library less than 24 hours later.

00:12:52 - Nate

That's how it goes.

00:12:53 - Chris

But I got the audio book read by the author, which is usually fantastic. Big bonus. I think for me, books like Blink by Malcolm Gladwell, the audio book read by the author. Phenomenal. That's the only one off the top of my head. Usually a big, big bonus really brings out exactly how they wanted to deliver the information. Right. In this case, it really just made it feel like a super long form album review on a podcast.

00:13:21 - Nate

Yeah, I can totally see how that would be the case.

00:13:24 - Chris

I mean, it didn't feel like a book at all. It's a medium length book. It's about 320 pages. But I don't know if reading it myself would have felt different. A different narrator. I don't know what. But for me, I was constantly thinking some editor should have told him to cut about 40% of this. Yeah, sure. But that was my sort of initial and kind of consistent feeling throughout. Okay. It's exactly 20 chapters long. I do not think along the lines of Clockwork Orange, Anthony Burgess, that was a deliberate number. It's just like a round number, which made it easy to keep track of exactly how many chapters in we were before he even talked about the album Nebraska.

00:14:12 - Nate

No way.

00:14:13 - Chris

I mean, obviously, he would mention it, but you make it seven chapters before he actually starts talking about Nebraska.

00:14:22 - Nate

Okay, interesting.

00:14:24 - Chris

Which I get it. The context is very important, especially the overall vibe is he's building an intimate world of where was this beloved figure Springsteen at this time? What had just happened? There was a great quote. They were interviewing all five of them. Springsteen, the audio engineer, the dude from The Bear that plays Springsteen.

00:14:49 - Nate

Jeremy Allen White.

00:14:50 - Chris

Yep. Some dude I've never seen before who plays the sound engineer and the director. Maybe, I don't know. Five of them were on the news last night. And Springsteen said, and this is very much along the lines of this world Zane's built for us in the book, I knew what to do on stage. He was famous for these marathon live concerts, right? Three, three and a half hours just going. Right. Decades, he did not slow down as he got older. He kept doing this and this was such a poignant quote from him Because I don't watch the news. So I was like man, is this what the news has every day? I should watch it It was Springsteen himself saying for those three hours on stage. I know what I'm supposed to be doing It's the other 21 hours of the day and I'm not so sure about yeah yeah, and so in that sense the length of the book very much did paint a picture of Who he was as an individual growing up Becoming a musician What the river meant in terms of an album made with the band and its subsequent? Massive tour to bring us to this album, right? Yeah, sure. Yes So in a sense, I don't blame him, but come on, dude That is that's pretty rough Is that really necessary? Right and again, this is coming from a huge Springsteen fan Yeah, but I want I want a different book about the river. I want the book about the album, Nebraska to be about the album Yeah, which to his credit he does indeed do also arguably ad nauseum So so the thrust of the book is context about Springsteen Particularly and I think probably the most important part where he was emotionally and mentally They really dig into how incredible it was at this time coming off the album. He had just made to release Essentially a solo album not essentially. It's a solo album, right? Right. Yep without the E Street Uh-huh, and even at that I almost said this will be a spoiler. What again? This is the trouble with nonfiction, right? Yeah, what's a spoiler? Yeah It's amazing Because this album was recorded by Springsteen on a home recording device Yeah Made into a cassette a four track. It's like the TAC 9000 or something like that Four track home recording device makes a cassette Intended to be demos, right? Right. This is just I've written these songs I'm gonna get them down and we're gonna figure it out bring the band in and then slowly realizing wait Maybe it's better without the band Yeah, wait, we're trying to record it professionally and we can't capture the same sound wait What if we release the original cassette that you made in this room alone as an out? Yeah Amazing. Yeah amazing, right? I mean it has happened since Macklemore That was a very famous instance of him and Ryan Lewis recording all this this whole album at home You know, that was deliberately out about that You know, that's a huge F you to the industry right right they didn't want to conform Who's the Bon Iver guy Justin Vernon You know is famously done similar this Accessibility that in modernity we've become familiar with you know, the advent of DJs having Ableton on your MacBook, right? Anybody? Yeah, but at this time the way that he did it the same crazy sort of echo slap effect on Everything all instruments and all voices Absolutely unheard of and then to be not just a good album given those circumstances not like as an excuse Oh, it's good. But come on. He made it at home. Cut him some slack. No, it's a great album. Yeah, it's incredible. It is Raw it is intense I think the reason it was chosen as the subject of an entire book is it to an extent summarizes a Massive massive figure in in music today. I mean, he's still making music right? He's still yeah, it's it's incredible. Yeah Um that being said there were only two songs on this album that I recognized Really again as At least what I thought a massive Springsteen fan yet Atlantic City probably of course Atlantic City has been one of my favorite songs forever and then Nebraska I I don't just the that I'm gonna do the harmonica. Yes. Yes, Nebraska is number one and then Atlantic City's too and the that crazy monotone I actually sing that line in my head every time you talk about your family In Nebraska, and I've never told you that yeah, shout out to my Nebraska family well, that's why I have the I have the album on vinyl because my mother gave her collection to me and she got it from I think her cousin gave it to her as a gift and I remember being like, I don't know what this album is and she was like, I don't really either It was just called Nebraska and we lived in Nebraska. So it was like our thing and Then you know the song is about a yeah, yeah, I'm a spree killer Yeah, that's a good segue here a ton of the middle of the book is extensive discussion of each track individually And because of that I think we are gonna avoid it entirely. I think we would have a ball discussing them Yeah, that's outside of the scope of this Right, but some of the themes that come up exactly what you just said a lot of them are frankly dark tales Yeah, I would argue Johnny 99 is the precursor to what was that massive hit when we were when we were a little bit younger the Kids with the And it's like a super upbeat song but then it's about like school kids getting shot. Yeah. Yeah I would argue Johnny 99. It's like the precursor to that. It's like fun and upbeat but then you're like, oh, yeah Oh, no, right and that was the brilliance. I mean one artist after another Zayn's interviews finds quotes from Really other masters of the craft of songwriting in particular saying Nebraska is like the gold standard. Yeah. Yep Like it did not matter what effects were on it how it was mixed how it was mastered the fact that it's essentially Guitar, I think he has an electric on a couple tracks, but otherwise an acoustic guitar a Lovely glockenspiel on a couple of tracks kind of like what Hendrix did. Yeah but otherwise, it's just it was accidentally released in such a way that You are just face to face with some of the craziest Most morally questionable characters you could imagine. He just assembled this cast that you Cannot help feeling for. Yep, and it's it's masterful. It's it's Unbelievable. Yep. Yeah, that's all that's all I want to talk about the tracks if you want to hear the in-depth in-depth Potentially as in-depth as it could get just read the book yourself. Yeah I don't know how public Springsteen's mental health is in terms of like mainstream or pop culture very okay Okay, because it's it's it's always been familiar to me But this book really dives into it a lot in terms of like what this sort of writing Meant to his friends as oh wait, he's not. Okay, right You know and that really sparked in my head a larger discussion of you know The whatever I always mix it up art imitates life life imitates art. I think that's the point is that you can mix it up Right, right, right exactly. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, I think often about this question that does not matter if I look at this Sock and say this is blue to me. Oh, yeah, you presumably agree. This is blue Yeah, but in our heads we could be like the color that you physically see right you the color I call green But we've both been taught we call it blue. So that's what it is. Right, right. Yeah, we've discussed this an unfortunate number of times No, but this this felt exactly the same way to me It's like end of the day. We have no idea how Everyone around us views the world. We think we know we have some common ground that's been discussed, but it's impossible to discuss everything yep, and so this is an intimate view into someone else's intimate view of These characters some real some fictional and I think it's that practice of getting into the song Maybe it's upbeat some of them are just like a drone eighth note guitar string and a very monotone voice It's like barely being a musician. Yeah. Yes, and you are Enthralled. Yeah, you you are You are stuck with it and you find yourself Sympathizing with what would other otherwise be relatively unsavory characters, right? Yep. Yeah That's really what's brought up a lot in the book from quotes from other people people that Zayn's Interviews, how was Bruce at this time the answer not well comes out later the fascinating Finding that now six albums in you know, they elected to hardly advertise for the album at all, right? Not to do a supporting tour because obviously it's a solo album Yeah, it would be crazy to go try to tour with the band playing these songs and what that did to him You know them realizing how crucial Participating with his audience was yeah, because this was a completely different time in music album sales mattered, right?

00:25:10 - Nate

Right. Yeah, right. It wasn't about streaming. There was no stream. Exactly. Exactly Yeah the the most recent black pink album was Essentially made so that they could go to her on something right and have this blowout tour that everybody loved. Yeah And it was not the same then and so to release this album Without his band and then not do a supporting to it just every turn I can I can see why Zayn's chose this out Every turn was something unique and spectacular From this brilliant musician that you and I both love dearly. Yes, that's the book Interesting, yeah, it's interesting to hear those criticisms because I have some pretty similar ones about the movie about the movie Yeah that I'm really surprised to hear but I also want to know why you had a single sock on hand I have been in Europe for the last 18 days and this is what the microphone has been sitting in in my suitcase Oh, okay. At least it's a clean sock. Okay, uh Two airports did stop me to ask what the heck it was because apparently it looks exactly like a pipe bomb on Airport security devices. Oh my god, Chris. Yep. Well, yep. We're here. So whatever here we are Let's take a quick break. And when we come back we will discuss the film adaptation You All right, welcome back to adaptation the book to movie podcast today we are discussing deliver me from nowhere the story about the creation of Bruce Springsteen's 1982 album, Nebraska Chris thank you for the lovely rundown of the book. Let's talk about the movie. Awesome Stars, Jeremy Allen white first and foremost as you mentioned the star of the bear I think it's really interesting that casting because there's so many similarities between those two characters the sort of Tortured artist who is the architect of their own? Destruction. I was sort of like can this guy do anything else? Like he's really putting himself in a box Yeah, anyway, the the cast also includes Jeremy strong as John Landau Bruce's manager Mm-hmm Odessa young plays a woman named Faye in the movie who my understanding is she's an amalgamation of several women that Bruce Interacted with between 81 and 83. Okay makes sense. Essentially. He just kind of self implodes their relationship. So Just a representation of how he couldn't get his shit together and then small roles for Paul Walter Hauser Mark Maron Stephen Graham and Gabby Hoffman just shouting out that those are all pretty pretty big names So it's interesting that a lot of people were drawn to this Story, I think because of Springsteen's iconography. Uh-huh The movie was written and directed by Scott Cooper. This is the first Scott Cooper movie I've ever seen He's directed a handful None of them are ones that I'm very familiar with except his debut feature is called crazy heart Which is a movie about fictional country and Americana musicians So interesting that he's kind of coming back around not that I would really throw Bruce into those categories But he's sort of adjacent to those genres, I think so interesting that he's angry at I mean not country but Americana Specifically Nebraska. I don't know what else to call it besides Americana. Yeah Americana rock I guess well, they do they talk a lot in the book I guess I don't know if they discuss it in the movie. They talk a lot about those influences on Bruce in the book Yes, okay. That's one thing actually that they kind of skipped in the movie. I Like Chris, I am a huge Bruce Springsteen fan And I knew that Bruce was very influenced by not just music of different genres but like poetry and and movies and a lot of different pieces of kind of Americana culture for this album and it was Largely kind of skipped over in this movie, but but we'll we'll get to that. Did they can I interrupt you once more?

00:29:04 - Chris

Yeah, yeah Did they talk much in the movie about the movie that really inspired him a lot badlands does get a couple shoutouts It's a movie. I've always wanted to see because the story that it's based on what's his name?

00:29:16 - Nate

Something Starkweather Clark Starkweather something Starkweather we learn about it in journalism school because it's one of the first times that like a story gripped the nation and kind of the Media coverage had everybody freaking out and but it was so profitable that they just kept kind of churning out coverage of the spree killer who also is from Lincoln, Nebraska. That's where the title of the Album comes from and again having family from Nebraska. It's it's a story that's kind of always gripped my family as well So anyway, yes, that's pretty much the one piece of this culture like life is hard in America culture That gets a spotlight in this movie, which is really interesting to me and frankly kind of sad to me That's the foundation of the album so kind of just all kind of weird Yeah, and and it doesn't if you don't know the story of Badlands It doesn't resonate very strongly because they really only play a couple seconds of that movie highlight a couple seconds of that movie in This new movie. I had never heard of it It's a pretty famous one, it's part of that new Hollywood movement that I'm always going on about. Okay. Yep. It's been on my list for years, so we'll see. Someday I'll let you know how it is.

00:30:26 - Chris

Interesting. Yeah. They do practically like a full in-depth discussion of that movie in the book.

00:30:33 - Nate

I would have liked to have seen more of that.

00:30:37 - Chris

Yeah.

00:30:38 - Nate

Springsteen and Landau were both very involved in the development of this movie, which sort of makes sense, not just because they're both alive, but because the book is so recent. And Springsteen regularly visited the set of the movie, gave his blessing to Jeremy Allen White, actually advocated for Jeremy Allen White to perform the role. And he would regularly sort of like give advice and tell these stories that helped shape how they shot the scenes while he was on set. So he's been incredibly supportive. He's also marketed this movie like crazy. It's funny that they didn't market Nebraska because he goes to every single premiere for this movie. You know, there's like a London premiere and a LA premiere and a New York premiere. And Bruce Springsteen is all over the place for this movie.

00:31:20 - Chris

So he's very proud of it. He wants to go interact with his audience.

00:31:24 - Nate

Yeah. Yes. I think that's exactly right. Like I said, it's God's blessing and it's an accurate retelling.

00:31:31 - Chris

That's so cool.

00:31:32 - Nate

Yeah. Whether or not anyone will admit to it, this movie was made now partially because music biopics are really, really hot in the industry. And that's because several years ago, probably close to 10 now, Bohemian Rhapsody, the movie about Freddie Mercury and Queen, made almost a billion dollars at the box office. It made a boatload of money. It did really. Yeah, a lot. And it got a bunch of Oscar nominations too. Rami Malek won an Oscar. I think it got a Best Picture nomination. I guess I should have looked that up. Even though it's not a very good movie, it was like a huge, huge contender, huge discussion point for that year in film. Since then, many studios have been trying to kind of recapture that lightning in a bottle. But most of these music biopics don't end up doing all that well financially. The sort of exception recently, A Complete Unknown with Timothee Chalamet did okay at the box office too. I think it probably, their awards campaign was like bananas. So I imagine it was still a loss for the studio because they would have spent a lot of money on trying to get Timothee Chalamet an Oscar.

00:32:35 - Chris

Isn't that the one he was super pissed not to get an Oscar for?

00:32:37 - Nate

Yeah. Okay. The other reason that they still get made and they get these big stars attached to them is because of the Oscar potential. It's almost like a given that you get an Oscar nomination for this kind of movie. A Complete Unknown got three acting Oscar nominations, one for Timothee who played Dylan, one for Monica Barbaro who played Joan Baez, and one for Edward Norton who played Pete Seeger. Yeah. So kind of just like, like I said, it's kind of a shoe in thing. So all of these actors kind of want to do it and are really interested in having that moment in the sun.

00:33:09 - Chris

And are these, I don't know if you'll know this, are they typically based on a book or are they typically like written to be a biopic?

00:33:16 - Nate

You know, I don't know for sure. A Complete Unknown, the Bob Dylan one was based on a book as well. But those two, this one and the Bob Dylan movie are sort of unique in that they're not full like birth to death biopics. They're just slice of life, this one really pivotal moment in their career. So like, I don't know if like Elvis and the Aretha Franklin movie were books. I don't know. I'd have to look it up.

00:33:40 - Chris

Okay.

00:33:41 - Nate

This one, they slightly retitled it. The movie is technically called Springsteen, Deliver Me From Nowhere. I kind of have to laugh. The line Deliver Me From Nowhere is in two or maybe three songs on the Nebraska album. I think two.

00:33:53 - Chris

I only remember it being in one. Hold on fact checking. You keep talking.

00:33:56 - Nate

Okay. And it's not performed in the movie whatsoever.

00:34:00 - Chris

They skipped both of the songs. Are you kidding?

00:34:03 - Nate

So I can see sort of why they did that. And I'm wondering, that's another reason that I think A Complete Unknown maybe was a loss for the studio because it did not have Bob Dylan's name in the title. There's also not a song called Deliver Me From Nowhere, right? It's just kind of an idea from the album. So most of these biopics are called Elvis or Bohemian Rhapsody or Respect or Rocketman. And they're like immediately identifiable. I think they probably took a look at A Complete Unknown's box office and said, oh crap, we need to make sure people know that this is about Bruce Springsteen the second they look it up or the second they see an ad or something like that. Which is interesting. Again, we'll get to it. I don't think this movie has very much confidence in the album Nebraska, which is so antithetical to everything it's trying to do. Anyway, reception for this movie has been good, not great. Reviews also have been good, not great. As of recording, it just came out last night. So we'll see how it does at the box office. I really expect it to bomb because it's a slog. This movie is so slow and that makes sense because it's about one of the most stripped down albums in rock music history. One of these larger than life figures sort of removed himself from that and recorded an album in his bedroom while he was depressed. It's just not very fun to watch. No matter how good the sort of end result piece of art is, it was such a boring movie.

00:35:28 - Chris

Interesting.

00:35:29 - Nate

I know. And like I said, I'm a huge super fan of his too. I love this album, but I just could not wait for this movie to end. It was so slow. And like I said, no confidence in Nebraska as an album. The biggest set pieces in the movie, it pretty much opens with him performing Born to Run, which is from a few albums previous as he's wrapping up his tour for the river. There's a huge set piece around Born in the USA, which he wrote in the same album cycle. He wrote basically a double album again and shelved about half the tracks that could be made into these bigger pieces for his band.

00:36:03 - Chris

Yes, they had like two thirds of Born in the USA written and then he stopped to do Nebraska.

00:36:11 - Nate

Yeah. So Born in the USA is a huge musical set piece in this movie. Gets almost a full performance. It's not on Nebraska. And then I'm on Fire as well has a really long sort of sentimental scene. It's also not on Nebraska. And those are the three like biggest, what I would say are the biggest. There's also really sweet moments for My Father's House and Nebraska, but they are like interrupted by dialogue or dream sequences or kind of other things happening in the movie. They're not like a sit down, shut up and listen to this song moment of the movie. Those are really the only two songs from Nebraska that get spotlighted in this movie. So it's just crazy to me. Like I said, it's so antithetical because so much of the movie to maybe the last third is Bruce advocating for that album to be released in its form and like, trust me, it'll perform the way we want it to perform and this is the music I want to make. So it's very interesting to me that the movie falls for the same like commercial worries, I guess that that the executives fell for. I'm like, then why don't you make a movie about a different album?

00:37:18 - Chris

Yeah, yeah.

00:37:19 - Nate

Anyway, I'm ragging on the movie a lot. Jeremy Allen White is fantastic and sounds a lot like Bruce, but there are one or two moments where they use Bruce's voice and you can tell maybe it's just because I'm a Springsteen super fan and have listened to Nebraska 100 times. But there are one or two scenes where he like, quote unquote, listens back to his own recording. And I'm like, no, that's Bruce Springsteen. That's not Jeremy Allen White.

00:37:42 - Chris

The rest of them are Jeremy singing.

00:37:44 - Nate

Yes. And he does a really good job of sounding like Bruce Springsteen, which can't be very safe for the human vote.

00:37:50 - Chris

No, no, just smokes two packs and then rips out the mic.

00:37:55 - Nate

It was pretty funny listening to the scenes that they clearly shot after he sang his voice was very hoarse and raspy. That's a really good detail. Really strong. Like I said, really strong performance. And as long as we're talking about the recordings and the sounds, the songs that Jeremy performed, the sort of stylings, they really did nail the Nebraska stylings as well. Like I said, it's not very confident in the album, but it sort of had a real reverence for it that I was still able to sort of appreciate as a Bruce Springsteen fan. But otherwise, I don't have a lot to add about the movie. It's a little bit of a nothing burger. I couldn't, when I finished, I was like, I just don't have a lot to say about it because not a lot, basically nothing happens in the movie. Like I said, he records an album in his bedroom and then he argues with people for maybe 45 minutes and cry. I feel like the thesis statement of the movie is, did you know Bruce Springsteen has depression?

00:38:50 - Chris

And it's like, well, have you listened to a Bruce Springsteen song ever in your life?

00:38:54 - Nate

So yeah, kind of interesting that it has the same pitfalls that you were finding in the book or very similar ones.

00:39:01 - Chris

Do you think, because I didn't write this as a discussion question, but I want to ask you anyway, do you think it would have been more effective as a straight documentary as opposed to a biopic?

00:39:14 - Nate

I guess. I mean, the ultimate thing here, I know I just ragged on, this is technically a Disney movie. It's a 20th century movie. I know I just ragged on them for, they did the Bob Dylan movie too.

00:39:25 - Chris

What?

00:39:27 - Nate

Like I said, money and awards.

00:39:30 - Chris

So Bruce Springsteen is now technically a Disney princess?

00:39:32 - Nate

I guess.

00:39:33 - Chris

Hell yeah.

00:39:34 - Nate

Would it have been more effective? The bottom line is it's not a very exciting story. And that's my problem with like a lot of these music biopics is it's just like a good artist works really hard and I'm kind of like, yeah, cool.

00:39:47 - Chris

You know? We knew that.

00:39:49 - Nate

Right. I'm just kind of waiting for the next song because that's kind of what I'm there for, right?

00:39:54 - Chris

Like, I, I, well, I ask that because both of us have nearly the same complaint about this book and this movie and of the list that you were just giving me, I mean the Elton John one I loved, but for the most part I agree the biopics have been underwhelming. But then have you watched the Billy Joel one yet?

00:40:14 - Nate

The documentary on HBO? I haven't.

00:40:17 - Chris

It's on my list. Five hour documentary, two, two and a half hour.

00:40:22 - Nate

Yeah.

00:40:23 - Chris

I think they call them episodes. No, the two and a half hours. That's a movie. Call it what it is. Yeah. And it, I think it's the level setting, setting of expectations.

00:40:32 - Nate

Okay.

00:40:33 - Chris

You're not mad at a documentary that's two and a half hours long, Dragon Alert, but a movie?

00:40:38 - Nate

Yeah.

00:40:39 - Chris

Yeah.

00:40:40 - Nate

Come on. Pick up the pace. Right. Yeah. From that perspective, it would be more effective as a documentary. I just, the crucial error was not really explaining why Bruce in his depression connected to all of this Americana culture. You know, if you, if you listen to the songs, they are all about why it is hard and bad to live in America and not be rich, which is an interesting thing coming from a rich rockstar who of course grew up not rich.

00:41:07 - Chris

Well, do they talk about that much in the movie?

00:41:10 - Nate

They do flashback to his, it's more about how parents and specifically his dad were not great. Um, it's not so much about living in poverty or they lean on the fact that he's always been painted as America's blue collar rockstar Heartland hero sort of thing.

00:41:26 - Chris

But by this time you, I mean, you just said it five albums in and coming off the river tour and he talked a lot in his interviews with Zanes in the book about how uncomfortable he was cause he didn't leave town. He went back to New Jersey, right? And now he's not in the same shoes as all these folks. Right.

00:41:46 - Nate

But he still performs at the local bar. He dates this girl in the movie at least is, is depicted as a, um, sister of like a high school friend or a classmate, something like that. So he's still sort of very much existing in this, the same physical space, but not the same mental or economical or yeah, fiscal space. And they just, they kind of glance over it like it just, you don't like, I don't think the movie does much to tell you how, how, like why the album is so iconic.

00:42:18 - Chris

Yes.

00:42:19 - Nate

So I guess, I guess the documentary long-winded answer to your question here, I guess it would be better because you'd probably hear more directly from Springsteen and Landau instead of, you know, the chain of adaptation is this story happened to Bruce Springsteen and then Warren Zane wrote about it and now Scott Cooper wrote about it. And now it's Jeremy Allen White sort of being the face of it, right?

00:42:39 - Chris

We're like six degrees.

00:42:40 - Nate

I don't know how many that was five or six degrees away from, from Bruce, even though he was involved.

00:42:46 - Chris

It's a real evolution.

00:42:47 - Nate

Yeah. So I guess to answer your question, it would have been better.

00:42:52 - Chris

No, that's a good answer. That's a, I think you brought up important context to answer the question rather than just saying yes or no. I was curious.

00:43:02 - Nate

One of the parts of the movie that I really liked was the relationship between Bruce and Landau. They seem to have a real brotherhood and like Landau was very protective over Bruce. I imagine that's probably what he had a reputation for with all of his clients. This is Bruce's manager that I'm referring to. And I wanted to know if the book touched on that at all, or if that's something that they kind of mined for, for the movie, because it was really special. I thought.

00:43:26 - Chris

No, they, um, I'm glad that that comes through in the movie. That was very clear in the book. He even specifies almost a little bit of foreshadowing when they first start hearing some of the tunes and Landau's the one that's like, oh boy, I mean, great, great songs, but like Yeah. How you doing, bud?

00:43:45 - Nate

Right.

00:43:46 - Chris

And could kind of foresee the collapse that was coming before they even got to how do we release this? How do we mix and master any of those questions?

00:43:53 - Nate

Yeah. Yeah. I'd say that was similar in the movie too, that he was probably the first one to spot the warning signs. But I also, I just loved that he was always like, you never have a easy time coming off the road. Like, take it easy. Are you sure you don't want to be in LA? He just was very caring towards Bruce. And I thought for for somebody whose job it was to like make money off of Bruce's success. Yes. I thought that was a very, very cool thing for him to do and a cool thing for the movie to spotlight.

00:44:19 - Chris

Yes. I mean, it was so relevant and abundantly discussed in the book, along the lines of actually the other biopics we've discussed, it made me wonder how would some of our other beloved figures, Elton John, Hendrix, you know, how would some of these people that did have to reach, I mean, I'm not here to quantify people's pain, but arguably lower lows.

00:44:48 - Nate

Right.

00:44:49 - Chris

Uh, how would they have done if they had a manager like this? So I think, I think it's awesome that they portrayed him so much.

00:44:55 - Nate

Yeah. Especially some of the people like Hendrix that are dead because of those lows.

00:45:00 - Chris

Right.

00:45:01 - Nate

Because of those lows. Yep. That's another thing that's not very effective about these biopics. There's one scene where Bruce sort of implies that he might hurt himself to John over the phone and it's supposed to be a really tense moment, but we know that he doesn't, you know what I mean? Or even if he did, that he is okay because he's still alive. And it's one of the reasons that biopics don't work super well for me is because I'm like, well, yeah, we know how it turned out. You know, the end of the movie, they splash up how big, how well the Nebraska album sold and everything.

00:45:33 - Chris

And I'm like, yeah, that's why I'm here. I didn't need the last two hours.

00:45:38 - Nate

Yeah. Interesting. Anyway. Um, what, uh, what other discussion questions you got?

00:45:43 - Chris

Yes. Um, I mean, I was so curious, actually infinitely more curious after watching, cause usually, you know, I expose myself to no information about the movie.

00:45:54 - Nate

Sure.

00:45:55 - Chris

It is impossible. coming back to the U.S. this last week to wake up in the morning and go through an entire day without hearing about this movie right now, right? So the book for me, and actually this one I feel pretty confident I'm not going to give my normal dense reader disclaimer, I think for everyone reading it, it's very much a narration of the considerable research done by Zane and the interviews, honestly a lot of interviews with Springsteen himself and everybody involved. I cannot fathom how they morph that 20 chapters of narration from the person who researched it into a character playing Springsteen. I said here, in my mind this should have been 10 one-hour episodes, a massive docuseries. Are you hearing first-person stream of consciousness? Is it just conversations he's having with other, like how do they, how the heck do they do this?

00:46:53 - Nate

Yeah, it's a pretty standard narrative. There's no narration. There's occasional, like I said, occasional flashbacks to his childhood. That word sounds a little too kitschy in the context of this movie, I think there's a little more nuance. He is remembering, he's sort of connecting the dots of his trauma to his current depression. So there's a little bit of that, but otherwise it's pretty straightforward. It's a chronological retelling, starts at the final performance of his tour for the river, straight through making Nebraska and then advocating for its release. And you follow Bruce, there's no narration. So it's mostly him saying, it's mostly him going, this is how I want it to sound. And his buddy that like helped him record was like, are you sure this doesn't sound very good? And he goes, yeah, this is how I want it to sound. And then he goes to the actual producers and mixers and engineers and goes, this is how I want it to sound. And they go, are you sure? And he goes, yeah, this is how I want it to sound. And that's kind of the movie. And then John Landau has to have one or two sort of arguments with the record execs where he says, yeah, this is how he wants it to sound. And that's sort of it. That's sort of the movie.

00:48:03 - Chris

Incredible. Yeah.

00:48:05 - Nate

So when you ask how did they condense it, it's because they took one shot and they just stuck with it.

00:48:13 - Chris

They just sliced everything.

00:48:14 - Nate

That's how. Yep.

00:48:16 - Chris

One track mind. Okay.

00:48:19 - Nate

I mean, I guess I don't see how else you could do it. We don't often have an opportunity to ask questions like this next one I'm going to pose. So that's why I wanted to talk about it. What is your favorite track on the album? And do you have a reason why?

00:48:31 - Chris

Or is it just you just like it? Was it rocks? No, no, no. You texted me about this. And I think it's an absolutely incredible question. And had you asked me this two weeks ago, I would have without hesitation said Atlantic City. Yeah. I love that song. Always have. I've told you about this before. First of all, Blair was the first person from Connecticut I'd ever met. New England in general coming from right for me was like, like New York specifically was home alone.

00:49:05 - Nate

Right?

00:49:06 - Chris

Yep. That's it. And New Jersey, especially. I don't know how many people in the state of New Jersey, much to their chagrin. And I'm sure I have said specifically my entire mental impression of this state is what Bruce Springsteen has told me.

00:49:24 - Nate

Yeah.

00:49:25 - Chris

Yeah. They're like, do you think it's a shithole? And I'm like, yeah, this is what I think. So again, two weeks ago, I would have said that. As I said, preparing for this, I don't know how many times I've listened to this album top to bottom over the last week and a half. Blair finally made me put headphones in driving from driving from Galway to Dublin all the way across Ireland. She's like, I cannot hear Johnny 99. One more time. She's like, I'm getting depressed. Yes. Yep. She got real sick of it. And through the course of that, I do want to change my answer, mostly because this epitomizes what I have most connected with in this album now.

00:50:05 - Nate

Highway Patrolman. Oh, wow. Okay.

00:50:08 - Chris

Again. So there's the fifth track, Heartbreaking.

00:50:11 - Nate

Yeah. Yeah.

00:50:13 - Chris

Dude, dude, becoming a highway patrolman and culminating in having to chase his own brother across the Canadian border, fleeing a crime he committed. But the part that I love most about it, what I invite you and the rest of our listeners to do is go in there and count, count the beats in each bar one and two and three and four. He will start these lines anywhere. No, that's this album's half of them begin on the end of three. Virtually none of them begin on the downbeat on one. And what that showed me as a listener, especially pulling up, I recommend this. Listen to it.

00:50:59 - Nate

Close your eyes.

00:51:00 - Chris

Listen to it once. Yep. Then open your eyes. Have a list of the lyrics in front of you and listen again. He didn't give two shits about making a correct, a catchy, a cool sounding song. He had the story, which is what he's known and loved for. And this album, especially right. And he just found the vessel to get that out there. Right. It should not make sense. It is consistently the strangest timing you can imagine, weird lines flowing over. It's incredible. It's incredible. And it just makes it so clear. He had this fantastic character. That's what everyone will talk about. Any musicians you ask to talk about the album, Nebraska, it's the characters that he made. And these are simple ideas, right? And some of these details in our taking turns dancing with Maria, you know, Maria is nowhere else in this song. But it's these subtle changes that they're playing this specific song, Johnstown Flood, that he's a sergeant at barracks number eight. It's like, it's this perfect combination of so, so vague that we can all relate, but then such intimate details that it makes you think, wait, is this real?

00:52:16 - Nate

Right. Because again, some of the tracks are and some are not.

00:52:20 - Chris

I just, I've fallen in love with this song. So that is my long, long answer. Highway Patrolman, incredible. It does bring you to the verge of tears every time, but in like a delightful way, right? The way okay, exactly, exactly, exactly. How about you?

00:52:43 - Nate

Favorite track from Nebraska? This is tough. This is the kind of art that I like. That's like saying something, doing something. You know, I don't really care that like Taylor Swift found her man finally, or that, you know what I mean?

00:52:56 - Chris

That's just not important to me.

00:53:00 - Nate

So I've loved this album for a long time. And like you, up until two weeks ago, I probably would have said Nebraska because of the sort of family connections that I mentioned, or Atlantic City. I mean, it's not his greatest hits, like it's- It's incredible. You know, pretty objectively the best song on the record. But in listening to it and reading the lyrics, like deeply listening to it over the last week or two to sort of prep for this, just about every time I listened to Used Car, I end up with tears streaming down my face. For those that don't know the track, it's basically, I think it's one of the more autobiographical songs. I think it's based on Bruce's actual feelings. When his family went out and bought a used car and everybody in the neighborhood was like, oh my God, there's a new car in the neighborhood. And he was like, that is so dumb. Like four people have owned this car before we have. What are you, what are we gawking over this for? We shouldn't be like building that kind of culture.

00:53:53 - Chris

Yeah, but the line in the song, a new used car.

00:53:56 - Nate

Right, exactly. Yeah, everybody is excited that it's a new used car. And it sort of culminates in him wishing that he could drive off and never see another used car as long as he lives. And he arguably probably did, just based on all the gold records that are on his wall. It's just one growing up sort of in suburbia that has really resonated with me. And I'm like, yeah, we do sort of put ourselves in these holes in some ways. You know, like even the idea of the American dream is sort of like propaganda to keep lower and middle class people in the lower and middle classes. And that's exactly what that song is to me. And I just, like I said, it makes me cry. It makes me think of my own childhood. But I love it. That song is great.

00:54:45 - Chris

I absolutely love that answer from you. If I had not said Highway Patrolman, that was my answer for very similar reasons.

00:54:52 - Nate

I was surprised that you chose Patrolman. I thought we were going to land on the same one.

00:54:55 - Chris

Well, used car especially. Think about songs about cars. Queen.

00:55:00 - Nate

I'm in love with my car.

00:55:03 - Chris

Dumb, shallow. Even the bandmates didn't like it. Right, right. Yeah. This song, I immediately pictured the five used cars that were always in my parents' driveway to running at any given time and thinking to myself, I'm never going to be like this. The second I get out of college, I'm going to buy a new car and take care of it. Like what? That's exactly as ridiculous, right? I look back and I just want to say, Chris, you dumbass, right? Who cares? Who cares? And especially now on exactly what you said, like the level of being in that neighborhood with your family. Like now, as an adult in my 30s, I can very much realize, oh, we had those cars so that I could play sports and buy instruments to be in the band at school.

00:55:56 - Nate

Yeah.

00:55:57 - Chris

My parents could have had a new car and I could have had TV as a hobby exclusively. Like what was I? What a insufferable, naive prick. And that song somehow captures all of that, right?

00:56:12 - Nate

Yeah. Totally. A phenomenal pick. And I love it because cars are such a big part of Bruce Springsteen's sort of body of imagery that he returns to, part of that blue collar rockstar persona, but it's a motif that he references a lot. And so to sort of flip it on its own head here and be like, look, I see the holes in it too. Yep. It was really, I thought, honest and cool.

00:56:36 - Chris

It actually did. I love that you brought up it as a motif for him. It immediately made me think of, it always struck me as so strange how specific he was about sitting next to her in this truck in the song The River. And I always thought, this is such a beautiful song. Why do you keep bringing up this truck? And then you listen to this, which came immediately after, and it's almost like, okay, so this is what was in your head. That was the way you communicated it. And I was too dense to understand. Pink Cadillac, too. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

00:57:11 - Nate

Good stuff.

00:57:12 - Chris

God, I love Bruce. What an artist. Goodness gracious. All right. You got any other discussion questions? Yes, I do. I'm glad that you asked. You have to an extent answered this already, but the book was very, very, very chronological, down to when he went and interviewed Bruce, when they went and revisited these places. This happens, this happens, this happens, retelling the events. In the comment I wrote here when I asked this question, or wrote it down to ask you, I don't see this making a very fun movie to watch. Nope. Nope. It doesn't. Okay. So my question was, how do they deal with the timeline in the movie?

00:57:54 - Nate

Yeah. So it starts in 81 at the end of the river tour with, I want to say two or three sort of flashes back to his childhood, but otherwise it is chronological. He's writing this album alone at home, and he's trying to decide whether it's one album, whether it's a double album, whether these songs all belong together. And every once in a while he goes on a date, every once in a while he records a song. And that's pretty much it until it comes time to sort of, like he has that famous panic attack at a state fair. And that's sort of, that's really the beginning of the end of the movie, because he starts to seek help after that. And then that's it. Then he goes on tour for Born in the USA, like the next year.

00:58:38 - Chris

And absolutely blows up and has a problem with Reagan and yeah, okay.

00:58:43 - Nate

Yeah. So it's not, unfortunately it's not a very fun movie.

00:58:47 - Chris

Yeah. That's not the answer I expected, but it is interesting that we had similar impressions. It is kind of weird.

00:58:52 - Nate

Sometimes, yeah, it's weird that things align the way they do. Last question I wanted to ask, whether there was an artist biopic or like this sort of an album that you'd like to see a movie made about or something, if anything pops into your head.

00:59:06 - Chris

I mean, yes, unfortunately one artist immediately pops into my head, another artist that I've written an essay about, but this is going to matter to no one listening. I would love a biopic of Russian born bass phenom, Sergei Koussevitzky. But I don't think they're making that. Yeah. He was at the Moscow conservatory in 98, 1898. Yeah. I don't see that coming. Who would I, who would I actually, you know what, Victor Wooten. That's what we're missing in the world, a biopic of Victor Wooten.

00:59:41 - Nate

Okay.

00:59:42 - Chris

Incredible family. Just that two or blur. And I went to see last year, they have one brother that passed, but then the other four brothers are all incredible players. The keyboard player played with, I want to say Steve Miller band, future man, the drummer, incredible. He invented the drumitar, also always dresses like a pirate. I mean, just, and Wooten, obviously the best electric bass player alive, arguably best electric bass player ever. So there's my answer to that. Who would you pick? I'm about to say it and they start making it tomorrow.

01:00:15 - Nate

There was a concert in Manchester in 1964, Muddy Waters and Sister Rosetta Tharpe headlined. And it's known as one of the more influential events in music, like pop music history because of who was in the audience, who was watching, like the Stones were there, the Who was there, all of these people that sort of had their world rocked by these two pioneers of rock that were on the sort of downward slope of their careers. And this specific concert really, see now I'm like, wouldn't it be cool to see a movie I don't know anything about? And I'm spouting out every fact.

01:00:47 - Chris

Let me, let me tell you all about it.

01:00:51 - Nate

But I think it would be a really cool story and one, you know, we get movies about Elvis and they kind of glance over how much he stole from. Black culture and rock music, and so I think I'd really like to see this Manchester 1964 concert. It like rained while they were performing. They were performing on an abandoned train station. I think it may be the broadcast of it maybe broke some television viewing records. Wow. Yeah, and it's just something that I feel like nobody has heard about, and I'd love to see. I've never heard of this. Yeah, I'd love to see it get a spotlight, but maybe that's a better documentary too. I don't know.

01:01:27 - Chris

So this music event as opposed to an individual. Yeah, I think I'd like those better.

01:01:37 - Nate

These like birth to death biopics, I'm like, yeah, you can only fit so much in two, two and a half hours. Like I said, the story is basically just really good artists worked really hard, did some drugs, got a divorce, died. Yeah, yeah, yeah, honestly. Yeah, I know. And so I kind of like these sort of smaller moments that were impactful, this album or when Bob Dylan, you know, the movie was about him introducing electric instrumentation. Yep. Tend to like those a little bit better. Yeah, yeah, those are those are interesting.

01:02:12 - Chris

Yeah, no, you've convinced me. I want to see that as well. That is that so biopic at that, but I feel like that's firmly into documentary territory.

01:02:23 - Nate

Maybe. Yeah, certainly. Certainly just historical drama at the very least.

01:02:28 - Chris

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

01:02:29 - Nate

But as far as deliver me from nowhere goes, what are you rated on Goodreads?

01:02:34 - Chris

Yeah, so this was really tough for me. I feel like I hope we're in a similar boat here. It's almost like the content is so cool that the delivery method was going to be underwhelming, you know? OK, yeah, I have a similar thought. But yeah, go ahead. This got a firm three out of five for me. And it's it's strictly because I can't tell. I'm not convinced that this was what he wanted it to be, or I'm not convinced of what he wanted it to be as far as Zane's goals in this endeavor. Right. Sure. The research and dedication to capturing a wealth of accurate knowledge is very much commendable. Right. The interviews with Springsteen himself, spectacular, the collection, even the collating of all of that data, I will argue spectacular, admirable. Yeah. But the ultimate pursuit felt aimless. If he wanted to be entertaining, this was too dry and just a series of facts. Right. If he wanted it to be just presenting all of this information, he found it was longer and more dramatic than it needed to be. Right. Sure. Yeah. If it was just an exhaustive love letter to the boss's career, then I think that's probably the nearest that this is to. And I would say you achieve that goal. It's a strange goal, but achieved. But then don't tell us that it's just a slice of history and discussing one particular album. Right. Right. Yeah, totally. So that being said, I'm not really sure who I would recommend it to. Maybe really, really big music nerds that I already know are very fond of Springsteen. Sure. But otherwise, yeah, your average reader, I would have a tough time saying you are going to enjoy these 320 pages and they're well worth your time.

01:04:31 - Nate

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Similar boat here. Okay. I think I've landed on giving it a three as well. I really saw the movie last night and it took me until this morning to figure out what I was going to rate it because there there's no way that I wasn't going to feel attached or feel something for this movie about this artist that I love so much. Yeah. Which is why it did get a heart from me on Letterboxd despite, you know, somewhat lower rating than I would have liked. But yes, similar. I don't know exactly what the movie was trying to say. Like I said, its thesis is kind of like Bruce Springsteen had depression too. And you're like, yeah, we know. And maybe again, maybe that's because we're such big fans or maybe that's because we've listened to the actual lyrics on some of his albums. But I do also want to give a shout out. I think it's important, especially regarding men to have these conversations around mental health. Although I don't know that the movie goes like in depth enough to call them conversations so much as kind of just highlighting the fact that Bruce Springsteen had depression and anxiety and his father had schizophrenia as well. That's addressed in the movie. You know, outside of these moments where these moments, I guess of representation is what I would call it in terms of mental health. The movie doesn't do a lot. Like I said, not confident in the album. And that's sort of unforgivable in a movie about any given album. You know, if they made a movie about Michael Jackson's Thriller and spent the whole time talking about bad, I'd be like, what the hell?

01:06:03 - Chris

Yes, yes, yes. Why'd you make this movie? Exactly, yes.

01:06:06 - Nate

So the people, if I were to recommend it to somebody, it would be very similar. People that I know are fans of Bruce Springsteen. It's really not going to get a recommendation from me because it's like a cool, good movie to watch. It's similar to a lot of the new Hollywood movies that I've talked about on this podcast at this point, almost ad nauseum. The one that really stood out to me was Easy Rider because it has the same like very loose plot and it's about people discovering themselves. So maybe if you're into that movie or into how that movie operates, and I actually do like that movie quite a bit, but this might appeal to you more. You just have to really be ready for this sort of liquid plot that doesn't solidify really.

01:06:47 - Chris

Yep, yep, yep.

01:06:49 - Nate

So we'll see. It's going to stay at a three and I'm not going to think about it anymore because I think if I think about it too much, I'll knock it down. And I don't want to do that because I love Bruce Springsteen.

01:06:58 - Chris

Yep, yep. No, you posit some curious thoughts. Would someone who loves Born in the USA, and that's the extent of their knowledge of Springsteen, find this wildly informative? You know?

01:07:12 - Nate

Yes, maybe. It just feels like it was a trick, like including that was a trick to create clips that they could put in the trailers to get your butt in the seat because people aren't like, I can't wait to hear Mansion on a Hill.

01:07:27 - Chris

Yes.

01:07:27 - Nate

You know?

01:07:28 - Chris

Yes. Yep.

01:07:29 - Nate

I mean, I guess it's kind of also about the creation of Born in the USA because half of it was written for Nebraska. But yeah, I don't know. It's just kind of a nothing burger. I don't know.

01:07:39 - Chris

I see. I do. Yeah, I almost want to walk back a little bit of my criticism. I see why the context of the preceding and proceeding albums are necessary. It's almost, I wish it had been painted in that light then. Not just this is about Nebraska. Like maybe say, Springsteen 80 to 84. You know, something like that.

01:08:03 - Nate

Yeah, that would have a better arc for sure. I mean, there's no... A different expectation. Yeah. There's no change really in Bruce Springsteen. I mean, technically at the end, he's like a happier person. He's embarked on the Born in the USA tour. So there is technically a change. But if you were to look at like the movie as a whole, almost like screen time wise, it's Bruce Springsteen doesn't change throughout this story. There's no development for anybody.

01:08:27 - Chris

Well, it's such a specific time, you know, out of 20 studio albums. In that context, looking at three of them is a, oh, only three of them.

01:08:37 - Nate

Yeah, that's true. That's true.

01:08:40 - Chris

Okay. Yeah, that's so fascinating that we both absolutely love Springsteen. And this is probably the lowest rating anything's gotten from us collectively.

01:08:50 - Nate

I think so too. Yeah, a little bummed, but I kind of saw it coming when they titled it Springsteen Deliver Me From Nowhere when they added that Springsteen, because that was not how it was originally developed. It was just going to be called Deliver Me From Nowhere. So when they retitled it, I was like, oh, they've sent some trouble. They're going to do whatever they can to get butts in seats. And that's not necessarily positive for me.

01:09:12 - Chris

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. No, I see what you mean. It's like a it's like a trouble on the horizon. Hmm. Yeah. I mean, I'm glad I read it.

01:09:20 - Nate

Yeah, yeah. Oh, yeah. There was no way I was gonna miss this movie.

01:09:24 - Chris

Right.

01:09:24 - Nate

Springsteen fan and it's just not gonna be one I probably ever think about again.

01:09:29 - Chris

Yes, yes. I have no doubt I will never reread it. I'll probably I'll probably buy a copy and send it to my dad. But yeah. Hmm.

01:09:36 - Nate

Anyway, next up, I think we will have a banger on our hands. So hopefully it'll turn things around. We are talking about Frankenstein by Mary Shelley.

01:09:44 - Chris

Awesome.

01:09:45 - Nate

For sure. The new Guillermo del Toro adaptation. I haven't quite decided how many other ones I'm going to have time to watch.

01:09:51 - Chris

Well, Mel Brooks, obviously.

01:09:53 - Nate

That's not even Frankenstein. That's a different story based on Frankenstein. Anyway, thank you for joining us today for our discussion on Deliver Me From Nowhere. Skip the movie and the book. Listen to the album.

01:10:03 - Chris

Yep. Yep.

01:10:04 - Nate

And then listen to a bunch of other Bruce Springsteen stuff and enjoy yourself. Thanks for joining us. And we look forward to our next discussion. Bye. That's the show for today. Thanks for tuning in. Let us know in the comments what you're reading, what you're watching and what adaptations you'd like us to cover. Be sure to follow us on Instagram at adaptation underscore pod and on Twitter at adapt pod. See you next time.