The Secret(s) to Maximizing Tax Savings

In this part 2 of his conversation with Kiera, Morgan Hamon, co-founder and president of EAG Dental Advisors, talks about the action items doctors must commit to to stay financially savvy.

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Transcript:

Kiera Dent (00:01)

Hello, Dental A Team listeners, this is Kiera, and this is part two with me and Morgan Hamon as part of EAG Dentist Advisors, where we're actually gonna talk into the tax psychology and the tax strategies and the tax tips. And I really just feel like this episode is so powerful. And as always, thanks for listening, and I'll catch you next time on the Dental A Team Podcast.

 

Morgan Hamon (00:22)

But no, you got to do the stuff. So if your accountant tells you, look, take a board meeting, document it properly, there's a proper way to do it, you got to do it. That's how we say the proper legal avoidance. your account comes to you and says, look, it's time to be an S-Corp,

 

Kiera Dent (00:30)

Mm-hmm.

 

Morgan Hamon (00:39)

because the profit is appropriate, you gotta follow the instruction. There's a procedure there and it's gonna save a lot of money on self-employment payroll tax if it's done correctly. You gotta listen, but you gotta engage. There's action items. And so we, ⁓ every September, I made a checklist. You know, again, Navy guy, right? I got a checklist. Log in, do the checklist. I call it our business tax savings maximizer. That's the flashiest, catchiest name I could think of. But like, log in and do it. That's the secret.

 

Kiera Dent (00:58)

I love it.

 

you

 

Morgan Hamon (01:08)

So, you know, for those listeners that waiting for the secret, that's it, right? We got to capture expenses as business deductions and there is action items for the doctor. It requires that engagement. And to circle back to where what you said earlier, like you can't come into the office and just fix it for them. They've got responsibilities on things to do too and that's the same with tax policy.

 

Kiera Dent (01:31)

I thought that was such a beautiful way. And as you were going through the phases of grief, I'm like, oh yeah, I definitely lived all of those. And I think it does feel like a kick in the gut. like, this is worse than finding out like coal in your stocking Christmas morning. Like it's way worse. Like it feels awful. And you're in total denial that like, how is this even real? Like I live in America. Like, how is this real? I didn't know. And I mean, then you put on your state tax on there. And I'm like, for people who are in California,

 

Morgan Hamon (01:39)

Mm-hmm.

 

Mm-hmm.

 

Mm-hmm.

 

Mm-hmm

 

Mm-hmm.

 

Kiera Dent (02:00)

Like more than 50 % of your income could be going to tax pending upon your tax bracket. But I think Morgan is one of those things of also seeing, I know people don't want to hear, I'm going to be very unpopular right here and it's okay. It will like, you'll be in denial, you'll hate it. And then you'll be like, yeah, that's actually a really good point. Cause that's how I did it. Like taxes are a blessing though. Like we, we are so blessed to live in the country we are to be able to set the pricing that we want, to be able to do the work that we want to do that. like, I don't want to pay more taxes.

 

Morgan Hamon (02:12)

you

 

Mm-hmm.

 

Kiera Dent (02:28)

but I can see me paying taxes as like my opportunity to be here and to be a business owner. And I think that's an amazing thing that we do get to have access to. But like you said, shoot guys, this is where the discipline comes in. This is where the engagement comes in. This is where the ownership comes in. I remember where I should like, I'll send you a picture. My husband and made this like vision board together, cause every December I would cry over taxes. And one of my goals, literally has like, it's a sign that says tax expert ahead.

 

Morgan Hamon (02:33)

Mm-hmm.

 

Mm-hmm.

 

Mm-hmm.

 

Kiera Dent (02:57)

And I put that on my vision board because I'm I'm sick of this stupid stuff. I'm sick of Morgan telling me I owe this much money when I'm like, how is it even possible? I was like, I'm going to freaking figure this out. And I realized like, it's actually not that hard of a math equation. It's like, what is my profit that I get that month? What's my tax bracket? And let me go save that.

 

Morgan Hamon (03:00)

Thank you.

 

Mm-hmm.

 

Kiera Dent (03:16)

pay your quarterly tax payments. And then what I love is when, cause I put myself in the highest tax bracket, some years I'm going to be a little bit higher, some years I'm going be a little bit lower, like it's going to flush out. But if I'm saving my max amount that I would be having to pay in taxes every single month, I'm like, it's not that hard. Like you literally just take it, put it in a savings account, I put it in a high yield, so I'm even making money on it there. What's amazing is at the end of the year, I get my W2,

 

Morgan Hamon (03:32)

Mm-hmm.

 

Kiera Dent (03:41)

like refund, if you will, because we realize I have over-saved throughout the year. I also put in there like buckets, because I realized for me, Morgan, it wasn't just the tax that was hitting me. It was the SEP IRA that I had to pay. It was charitable contributions I was paying. It was end of year bonuses. And all of that, it's not taxes. I think you get hit with all of those at the end of the year. It's like you're trying to put these, then you've got your Roth IRA that you're trying to like put those in. And it's like all these things are money and it's all accumulating at one time.

 

Morgan Hamon (03:43)

Mm-hmm.

 

Okay.

 

Kiera Dent (04:11)

versus figuring out how much you really are gonna pay, breaking it down into buckets, saving for it, and then I love it. My money at the end of the year, whatever I don't pay in taxes, because yeah, it's a big number, whatever, you're just going to pay it. That's part of having an amazing, thriving business. But then my slush because I over-saved, that becomes my refund, that becomes Keira's money of like, sweet, what are we gonna do on this because I've already paid tax. Now I can take that.

 

Morgan Hamon (04:14)

Mm-hmm.

 

Mm-hmm.

 

Mm-hmm.

 

Mm-hmm.

 

Kiera Dent (04:37)

Now I can go buy the things I want to buy. can put it in retire. I can put it wherever I want it to go. ⁓ but I have it to our peace of mind. When I get my, like this year, my CPA can be like, wow, Kara, you like, you have this. And I was like, rock on. Like you're not stressed about it, but that takes discipline every month. I'm literally like, Hey, how much do we have put that profit over in our savings every quarter? You're making those quarterly payments. ⁓ it is being strategic. is like.

 

Morgan Hamon (04:52)

Mm-hmm.

 

Mm-hmm.

 

Kiera Dent (05:06)

You were on a call the other day with some of our doctors and like, so Kiera, how like there are you when you do your meetings at your house? And I'm like, I crossed my T's down my eyes. I don't like this game. Like I do Airbnb. I look at all my rental comps around me. I saved that every year. It's in a folder. All the things are in the calendar with me and the other people. I have an agenda. I send that over to my CPA. I just don't like to play in the game of gray. But I think those are the pieces that help you. And then you just maximize.

 

Morgan Hamon (05:16)

Thank you.

 

Mm-hmm.

 

Kiera Dent (05:34)

But Morgan, I don't know. think I've just learned that's also part of the success tax of being successful. Like this is what it is. And I think that being a business owner, the discipline of saving your money and not spending it all because we think like, should get this cause I'm a high earner. No, like there's still tax games that we play. There's different ways to minimize it. But realizing like I need to be disciplined here. I think if you can be disciplined there, it also stems to your team. It stems to your leadership. It stems to your physical health.

 

Morgan Hamon (05:39)

It is.

 

Mm-hmm.

 

Mm-hmm.

 

Kiera Dent (06:04)

It stems through

 

so many other areas in your life that I think like talk about a blessing of taxes that we actually get this benefit.

 

Morgan Hamon (06:07)

Yes.

 

It,

 

I agree. And you do have to be, you do have to be disciplined. I know. I know. I also, I'll share a personal, I'll share a personal experience and kind of how I view tax because I very happily write those checks. You know, I write the same ones as our doctors do, but so back when I got out of the Navy, my family and I, so my parents, my brother and myself, we all chipped in and bought a real estate company.

 

Kiera Dent (06:13)

Even though I hate it, Morgan, don't take me wrong. I still hate taxes. Morgan, tell me the secrets.

 

Morgan Hamon (06:36)

back in 2005, real estate was happening. It was all in, all chips on the table. Well, guess what? 2009, everyone remember what happened in 2009? So, I mean, it was bad. It was horrific. 2009, my tax bill was zero. Zero. But do you think I was coming home saying, honey, look at this, zero, woohoo, check this out. I got no tax.

 

Kiera Dent (07:04)

day.

 

Morgan Hamon (07:05)

No, I'm sitting in a room and looking at the wall like how am going to face my kids telling them dad can't keep a roof over their head? How did my life get this screwed up? I paid no income tax, but those are not good times. That's not a period. And so right after that is when my dad and I started HD Accounting Group. But those days were like not my fondest memories even though I had zero tax liability. Fast forward a bunch of years, I've enjoyed a lot of success and I write some big checks to the government and I don't care.

 

My life is so much better. got kids college paid for, no debt. My life is good. And yeah, they are some big checks. I mean, let's face it, they're not my favorite things to write. Nobody likes it. But my life is just exponentially better. So when you're paying tax, you're making good money. I don't know, maybe boil it down to that.

 

Kiera Dent (07:55)

I would agree with you.

 

which thank you for sharing because I think we, I agree. I don't want to have a year where I'm paying $0 to taxes. Cause that means that when you said zero and I'm like, we had a bad year. That's like a real bad year. Like as a business owner, you start to realize like that actually is not a good year. ⁓ But I think for that, ⁓ it's the discipline. And I found for me what's cut the stress out as an employer and as a business owner, not CPA, that's Morgan the world. That's not my world is when I have

 

Morgan Hamon (08:09)

That's... ⁓

 

And now...

 

Kiera Dent (08:28)

money and I'm disciplined and I save it because you still have profit afterwards. So it's not like you're not taking anything home every month. You're just being disciplined that that money for tax you save then I have the money and I'm like the pain I think comes from not having the money and the fear of where am I going to come up with the six figures when I've already spent it. I think that's more of why people hate taxes just like people hate root canals. They don't actually hate the root canal. They hate the pain leading up to it. We hate the pain of not having the money set aside.

 

Morgan Hamon (08:33)

Mm-hmm.

 

Mm-hmm. Yeah.

 

Yes

 

Well.

 

Exactly. And let's tie this real specifically to the world you and I serve, our dentists. What really creates a lot of confusion and adds to the emotion is that, most of our clients have a practice note, a big one. And they don't always realize, look, when you make your loan payment, that is not a tax deduction, right?

 

Kiera Dent (09:22)

not

 

just

 

Morgan Hamon (09:22)

When you borrow the

 

money, we deduct everything you're going to buy, but then over time when you pay that back, you don't get it deducted again. So if your debt service on your practice loan is $100,000 a year, which we see often, you're paying income tax on it. So if you made $500,000 and $100,000 went back to the bank, you're living on $400,000 but paying tax on $500,000. And that is

 

That can be shocking and that's why you'll hear, and that applies to just both financial accounting and tax, that question of, my accountant said I made this much money. That can't possibly be the case. I just logged into the bank. What are they talking about? It's that debt service. That money's gone, but it's not a deduction. The other thing that makes it, any tax planning for dentist challenging is just the volatility in the month to month profit.

 

And I think there's a misperception out there, hey, look, my accountant is keeping my books up to date every month, right? And so if we get to the end of, let's say the end of September, and we can, hey, September 30, this is the exact profit, that does not equate to a granular, precise tax calculation because we have to, all your tax rate is dependent on total annual household income. If there's four months in the year that haven't happened yet, we gotta,

 

Kiera Dent (10:16)

Amen.

 

Morgan Hamon (10:46)

We got to estimate and it's subject to change. Maybe they were struggling in May and they said, you know, I'm calling Kiera, fine, I'm going to do it. We're going to get this thing figured out. And so then by November, they're killing it and everything's up 30%, 40%. Well, guess what's also going to be up? Your estimated payments are going to be higher, right? And so it's volatile.

 

and it's not an exact science. with any tax planning, those quarter estimated payments are trying to keep you in the hunt. And you alluded to that by having your buckets. Just realize there will be a settle up at the end of the year when it all fleshes out, because all we can do is estimate along the way. Try to keep it as close as we can. But I'm with you. I make those payments quarterly. I don't put my head in the sand because it'll just get bigger.

 

Kiera Dent (11:33)

Well, I'm curious, Morgan, this is like Kara's nerdy side of me that I don't understand. So help me. And I hope this comes across respectful of the CPA world. To me, I feel like why don't CPAs at the end of every month, you know my profit, you know what I did that month. So yes, there's the estimated, but why not just give me like, the only thing I've thought of is maybe my tax bracket could change, but I'm like, why not estimate every month approximately what I need to save for taxes?

 

Morgan Hamon (11:43)

Mm-hmm.

 

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

 

Mm-hmm.

 

Mm-hmm.

 

Kiera Dent (12:03)

So I can at least put that away monthly. Help me understand the psychology of that, because I don't.

 

Morgan Hamon (12:06)

So, oh, trust me,

 

we've thought about this every which way. And I'm never done. I tweak our tax planning process every year. So to your point, like you could look at last year's tax return. So there's two figures to look at. There's your marginal tax rate, which is your whatever bracket, your highest, so the highest of 37.

 

But then there's what's called an effective, and that's just the average, right? If you look at total income and total tax, what's the average? So you could look at your last year's tax return and maybe your combined federal and state income tax was, call it 30%. So you could say, whatever my profit is times 0.3 is what I had to put away. So you could do that, but that's inherently going to be inaccurate.

 

because you will not have the same effective tax rate this year unless you have like a carbon copy and it'll be different. A lot of volatility. The other thing, it's a very equipment heavy industry as you know, and people do go buy equipment. And so if we, if say an accountant says, put whatever your profit is times 0.3, put that away, but then they get in and maybe they really do. Maybe their practice was... ⁓

 

Kiera Dent (13:20)

Mm-hmm.

 

Morgan Hamon (13:31)

you know, plum for eight ops, but they're equipped for five and it's time to fit those other three. Well, that's some really nice tax deductions there, like dollar for dollar. Well, that's really going to come down. And so that estimate's going to be out the window, like really quickly. You know, we've had times where I think of this story, something you don't tell stories. We had a client, this was a few years back, where they sent us an invoice. I can't remember what they bought.

 

Kiera Dent (13:38)

and

 

Morgan Hamon (14:00)

It was big, right? It was $120,000. They sent an invoice, not an email like I'm thinking about this. They sent an invoice. So we booked it. 120K deduction, did the tax plan, the works. Well, it comes time to do the tax return. And we're saying, hey, we keep asking for the loan paperwork on this claim. We don't get it. So finally, hey, look, we really want to get this tax return done. Can you send us that loan paperwork? And he's like, oh, I changed my mind.

 

I didn't buy that. And we're like, oh, let's put 120K of income back on top. You owe, I think it was like 40,000. And they're like, how can this be? I'm like, you sent us an invoice. Think how mad you'd be if we hadn't booked it. And I just tell that kind of story. Like equipment purchases in Q4, it's all out the window at that

 

Kiera Dent (14:37)

Bye.

 

Yeah.

 

Yeah!

 

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

 

Morgan Hamon (14:58)

So

 

it's very volatile. So to kind of circle all way back to the beginning, just for some basic tax planning, I knew for me, like federal and effective, it's like 35%. And I just planned for that. And then there's a settle up. And if I owe a bit, it's because we killed it. And I need to actually celebrate that and not be cranky about it. And if I get some money back, maybe,

 

Kiera Dent (15:13)

Mm-hmm.

 

you

 

Morgan Hamon (15:27)

Maybe it just didn't end up as good as I thought or whatever. We're accountants. We don't have like, Xerox machines to write off. I got like a laptop. So, I mean, we're kind of limited on that. So, ⁓ those are some limitations inherent in tax planning for specific for the dental industry, the volatility and month-to-month profit and the high amount of equipment that's involved, which involves some instantaneous significant tax deductions.

 

Kiera Dent (15:32)

Right.

 

and

 

Sure, no, that makes sense. And I think for me, it's always like, okay, there's profit, there's expenses. ⁓ If I'm gonna go use that money for expenses, then I'm going to take my tax amount. So obviously it's going to reduce my tax bill by that dollar amount. I can actually pull portions out of that money I've saved to pay for my equipment potentially if I need to. But just curious on that, because I've always, I'm like, it's a simple equation. Here's my profit. This is how much my tax bracket probably is. But also maybe you guys don't want them saving more than they need to because then people get angry.

 

Morgan Hamon (16:01)

Mm-hmm.

 

Mm-hmm.

 

Mm-hmm.

 

The truth.

 

Yeah.

 

Well,

 

people, it can get emotional either way, right? If they get a big refund, they're like, wait a minute, I could have had this in my high yield savings account. So we really do try to keep it as close as we can given the constraints of this kind three-dimensional moving target. What I have told doctors in the past, if we think about, let's say they've got an S-Corp, so on a reasonable W2, we got some holding through that W2, but they should still be taking the majority of the money home via profit distribution, okay?

 

Kiera Dent (16:26)

that

 

Exactly.

 

Morgan Hamon (16:53)

Have a look at last year's tax return. If you don't know how to find it, let us know. Keep it simple. If it's 30 % or 20, it's 28 points, okay, round it to 30. What I think every business owner should do, okay, at the end of the month or quarter, however often you want to do it, you look at how much money has accumulated in the operating account, what is my chosen desired minimum cash reserve, and whatever has accumulated, distribute it.

 

Kiera Dent (17:06)

Mm-hmm.

 

Mm-hmm.

 

Morgan Hamon (17:24)

And take, let's say there's $20,000 extra in there, right? And let's just say your effective rate's a third of that. Well, take six or 7,000 and just put it in, like you said, Kiera, your savings bucket. And then save that so then when your accountant says, hey, it's time for your Q3 payment, you tap that money. And I think that's just a simple thing that...

 

Kiera Dent (17:42)

Mm-hmm.

 

Morgan Hamon (17:53)

habit you could get into, for me personally in our business, we always did that quarterly. And we'd take a distribution quarterly and I would just lop off the top, put it away and treat it like I had never had this and I would send it right off to the government. And that way I wasn't playing catch up so much. In the accounting world, I don't quite have the volatility that dentists have, but it's still, that habit pattern. It's that discipline of doing it.

 

Kiera Dent (18:20)

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

 

Yeah. No, that's super helpful. And Morgan, this is why I love to talk about it. Because it's like, hey, how can I refine? As we were talking about on that leadership, how can I refine? How can I make this just a little bit better? How can I learn a little bit more of the nuggets? How can I be smarter on my prep work for me emotionally? Because some people are just fine. They'll just like, I have a million buckets. I love my buckets. I love to know what this money is saved for.

 

Morgan Hamon (18:42)

Hehehe.

 

Kiera Dent (18:45)

My financial advisor teases me, my CPA teases me. I'm okay with it because I'm like, sweet, I know how much money I've got here. I know what I can buy here. My husband loves like just one big fund. And I'm like, but then how do know how much I can spend? Like I don't want to overspend or underspend. So everyone's different. So things are just going through it. Things are the psychology of it, the tax planning pieces, how the leadership and profitability connect to each other. Morgan, you guys are such an incredible CPA firm. I love that you're specifically only dentists. I tried to have you guys work with me you said, no, I'm not a dentist. So

 

Morgan Hamon (18:51)

Mm-hmm.

 

You

 

huh.

 

Kiera Dent (19:14)

I love that you are so niche. It was great, I loved it. But if people are curious, how do they work with you? What are kind of the broad services that people could see working with you guys that you guys do and how they can connect with you?

 

Morgan Hamon (19:24)

So

 

our mission has always been and will continue to be supporting doctors by providing them the monthly accounting for their practice, providing practice profitability analysis reports and specific advising and tax planning ⁓ just for doctors. ⁓ If you want to check us out, is EAGDentalAdvisors.com is our website.

 

⁓ Or just email me reach out to me [email protected] My business partner Cortney and I we do all initial consultations personally It's always been that way I love to meet new doctors learn about their situation tell them about what we do See if you see if it could be a good fit, but that's how folks would could go out and find us

 

Kiera Dent (20:09)

Well guys, we have a lot of clients that work with Morgan. I think he's incredible. I love what you guys are doing. Morgan, it was always a fun time. Thanks for kicking it off with Top Gun, ending with like tack strategy. Thanks for sharing some of the tips. But truly super honored to work with you and love what you guys are doing for dentists out there.

 

Morgan Hamon (20:19)

Alright.

 

Kiera,

 

I always enjoy our visits and look forward to each one. So I appreciate you having me. I really enjoyed it.

 

Kiera Dent (20:31)

course. And for all of you listening, thank you for listening and I'll catch you next time on The Dental A Team podcast.