Why the UK Energy Market Is Broken (and How to Fix It!) | Greg Jackson & Rory Sutherland

Welcome to a special live episode of the Everything Electric podcast, recorded right in the heart of Oxford Street thanks to  @renaultgroup .

 

This is a rare, unfiltered conversation with three of the most influential voices in clean energy and human behaviour: 

• Greg Jackson (CEO, Octopus Energy) 
• Rory Sutherland (Behavioural Science, Ogilvy) 
• Robert Llewellyn (Fully Charged) 

We’re living through a strange moment. Clean energy is advancing faster than ever… yet the global system still clings to fossil fuels, geopolitical instability, and outdated market rules. So what’s really going on? 

 

In this episode, we explore: 

• Why fossil fuels are fundamentally inefficient (and losing ground) 
• The surprising psychology behind EV adoption (spoiler: it’s not about saving the planet) 
• How the UK’s electricity pricing system is distorting costs 
• The idea of an “energy pension” and how solar could deliver ~11% returns 
• Why countries like China are racing ahead while others hesitate 

Standout moments: 

• “Oil and gas are like an abusive partner… it’s never going to be different.” 
• The “Château Pétrus” analogy that perfectly explains energy pricing 
• Why petrol stations might soon look… completely outdated 
• “You just plug it in like a phone. Shut up.”

This conversation is about technology, economics, human behaviour, and what the future will actually feel like. Enjoy! 

 

00:00:00:00 Welcome and a little caveat! 

00:01:10 Ad Break 

00:01:32 Set the scene

00:05:20 Greg Jackson, Rory Sutherland & Robert Llewellyn 

00:07:00 Why? 

00:09:41 Robert Llewellyn on Efficiency and Internal Combustion Engines 

00:11:18 Rory Sutherland on EV Hostility 

00:16:14 The Energy Crisis and Fossil Fuel Industry "Audacity" - Greg Jackson 

00:20:53 Oil and Gas - an "Abusive Partner"?! 

00:22:56 Market Reform and the Future of BP and Shell 

00:28:10 Harm Reduction vs Perfectionism 

00:30:45 The Norwegian Paradox and Imported Emissions 

00:33:11 Marginal Pricing: The "Pint of Beer" Analogy 

00:34:31 Overcoming the Standard of Perfection in New Tech 

00:37:46 Greg Jackson’s Three Magic Wishes for Energy Reform 

00:40:14 AI Data Centres and Localised Pricing 

00:43:46 The Perception and Politics of Electric Vehicles 

00:45:52 Behavioural Science: Social Copying and the Sigmoid Curve 

00:48:21 The IKEA Effect: Loyalty through Sunk Effort 

00:50:11 Induction Hobs and the Benefits of Electrification 

00:51:03 Reframing Clean Tech as an "Energy Pension" 00:53:08 Preppers and "Freedom Cars" in Texas 

00:54:39 The Success of Global EV Test Drives 

00:56:53 Micro-Mobility and the Quiet Streets of China 

01:00:08 Displacing Global Fossil Fuel Consumption 

01:03:03 Symbolic Action vs. Meaningful Energy Change 

01:04:45 Closing Remarks and Audience Farewell

 

Why not come and join us at our next Everything Electric expo: www.everythingelectric.show 

Check out our sister channel: https://www.youtube.com/c/EverythingElectricShow

Support our StopBurningStuff campaign: https://www.patreon.com/STOPBurningStuff

Become an Everything Electric Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/fullychargedshow

Become a YouTube member: use JOIN button above

Buy the Fully Charged Guide to Electric Vehicles & Clean Energy : https://buff.ly/2GybGt0

Subscribe for episode alerts and the Everything Electric newsletter: https://fullycharged.show/zap-sign-up/

Visit: https://FullyCharged.Show

Find us on X: https://x.com/Everyth1ngElec

Follow us on Instagram: https://instagram.com/officialeverythingelectric

To partner, exhibit or sponsor at our award-winning expos email: [e-mail]

EE NORTH (Harrogate) - 8th & 9th May 2026 

EE WEST (Cheltenham) - 12th & 13th June 2026 

EE GREATER LONDON (Twickenham) - 11th & 12th Sept 2026

EE SYDNEY - Sydney Olympic Park - 18th - 20th Sept 2026

 

#fullychargedshow #everythingelectricshow #homeenergy #cleanenergy #battery #electriccars #electricvehiclesuk #CleanEnergy #EnergyTransition #RenewableEnergy #FutureOfEnergy #ElectricVehicles #EVs #HeatPumps #SolarEnergy #ElectricityPrices #EnergyCrisis #UKEnergy #EnergyMarket #OctopusEnergy #GregJackson #RorySutherland #RobertLlewellyn #EverythingElectric #FullyCharged #ClimateTech #NetZero #Decarbonisation #Sustainability #GreenEnergy