EP483 (Part 1): To Contain Skyrocketing Healthcare Costs or Renewals, You Gotta Understand How the Flywheel Works, With Jonathan Baran
Release Date: 08/07/2025
EP506: How Other Employers, Shareholders, and Clinics Are Using Price Transparency Data—And It’s an Arms Race, With Jerry DiMaso
Relentless Health Value
Stacey Richter interviews Jerry DiMaso, CEO of Payerset, about how hospital and carrier price transparency data (mandates beginning with hospitals in 2019 and carriers in 2022) is being used by plan sponsors and providers. For self-insured employers and unions, DiMaso highlights three key uses: benchmarking against competitors via EIN to compare negotiated rates and carve-outs, identifying high-cost billing codes, and exposing “discount shell games” by validating whether claimed discounts reflect real savings. Employers can use the insights to guide TPA negotiations, implement...
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EP505: The Death of the “What Is Value” Guessing Game for Clinical and Plan Decision-Makers Ready to Move On, With Ahilan Sivaganesan, MD
Relentless Health Value
Stacey Richter interviews neurosurgeon Dr. Ahilan Sivaganesan (Dr. Siva) about replacing vague healthcare “value” claims with quantified outcomes and unit-level costs, introducing his Operative Value Index (OVI). They discuss how hospitals often lack true internal episode costs and how common quality metrics miss patient-reported outcomes and appropriateness across the full care journey. Using time-driven activity-based costing (TDABC) and condition- or procedure-specific patient-reported outcomes, OVI creates a common mathematical language to compare surgeons, practices, or health...
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EP504: A Back-to-Basics Roadmap Through the Perverse Incentives to Advanced Primary Care, With Ryan Jacobs
Relentless Health Value
Why Advanced Primary Care Doesn’t Scale: Conflicting Incentives, Complacency, and a 3-Step Roadmap Stacey Richter interviews Ryan Jacobs (SVP Strategy and Partnerships, Marathon Health) on why evidence-backed advanced primary care (APC)—focused on managing risk, improving outcomes, and lowering costs—still isn’t widespread. They argue APC struggles to scale due to two root barriers: conflicting fiduciary duties (health systems and payers driven by volume, “heads in beds,” and market-power growth, while APC keeps patients out of hospitals) and a “black box of complacency,”...
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Insights to Outwit the Hot Mess of the Non-Healthcare Market
Relentless Health Value
In this Inbetweenisode, Stacey shares listener feedback and reflects on making better decisions in employer-sponsored healthcare, spotlighting LinkedIn posts by Ken Wosczyna and Michelle Bernabe. Ken argues Relentless Health Value moves from theory to practical transformation by sharpening judgment, which Stacey ties to how millions of workplace decisions shape the healthcare system and how actuaries and executives can align choices with values. Stacey emphasizes that good decisions require both transparency and understanding, previewing an upcoming episode with Jerry DiMaso about...
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EP503: Smart Collaboration With Direct-to-Employer Specialty Care, With Ryan Wells; Leo Spector, MD, MBA; and Adam Stavisky
Relentless Health Value
Episode 503 of Relentless Health Value features Stacey Richter with Adam Stavisky, Dr. Leo Spector (OrthoCarolina), and Ryan Wells (Health Here) discussing how self-insured employers and specialists rarely connect directly due to intermediaries and fee-for-service “rails.” They outline three common pitfalls when bridging this gap: defining and measuring quality and appropriateness (limits of claims data and missing patient-reported outcomes), achieving scale across geographies and specialties, and ensuring benefit design and incentives so members actually use direct-contracting...
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EP502: How Some Pretty Wild Medicare Fraud Sabotages ACOs and Also Independent Practices and Could Cost Plan Sponsors Such as Self-insured Employers a Lot of Zeros Downstream, With Brian Machut
Relentless Health Value
Episode 502 features Stacey’s conversation with Brian Machut (Alliant Health) on how widespread Medicare fee-for-service fraud is inflating costs and undermining ACO shared savings in MSSP and ACO REACH. ACOs uncovered major urinary catheter fraud in 2023 tied to codes A4352/A4353, totaling about $3.5B, with some beneficiaries billed for items never received (including a case shared by Dr. Tara Lagu). CMS created a “SAHS” (significant, anomalous, highly suspect) process to remove certain suspect costs, but benchmark effects can unevenly impact ACOs; catheter fraud is still...
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EP501: Speaking of Infusions, Do You Want to Pay $135 or Do You Want to Pay $13,560 for the Exact Same Drug? With Ivana Krajcinovic, PhD
Relentless Health Value
Episode 501 of Relentless Health Value features Stacey Richter interviewing Ivana Krajcinovic, outgoing Vice President of Healthcare Delivery at Unite Here Health, about extreme and persistent price variation for medical infusions as evidence of a “no market” in healthcare. They cite examples where the same chemotherapy drug (Oxaliplatin), long off patent, cost Medicare about $35 (or $185 for a series), an independent practice about $135, but a hospital in Chicago charged $13,560 and a hospital in Monterey billed $90,000 for a series—markups described as up to nearly 500x and far beyond...
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Take Two: EP398: Why Are Commercial Carrier Marketplaces Completely Boring? Maybe Because There Isn’t a Marketplace, With Jacob Asher, MD
Relentless Health Value
The Non-Market Reality of Healthcare Carrier Marketplaces with Dr. Jacob Asher. In this episode of Relentlessly Seeking Value, host Stacey Richter introduces the 'No Market' series focused on the healthcare sector's lack of competitive market dynamics, which affects cost and quality. The episode features a conversation with Dr. Jacob Asher, who has extensive experience as a Chief Medical Officer at major healthcare plans. They discuss the stagnant nature of commercial carrier marketplaces, particularly in California, and the various factors contributing to this stasis, including employer...
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EP500: This Is Episode 500, and It’s All About You, Tribe
Relentless Health Value
In the milestone Episode 500 of the 'Relentless Health Value' podcast, Stacey Richter reflects on the significant influence and community formed around the platform. Initiated by a conversation with Cora Opsahl, the episode transforms into a heartfelt ode to the listeners — healthcare entrepreneurs, executives, and change-makers, whom Stacey refers to as 'the tribe.' Featured contributions from several listeners highlight themes such as moving from theory to practical transformation, the power of collective momentum, and 'unplugging from the Matrix' of opaque healthcare practices. ...
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EP499: Self-insured Employers and Other Plan Sponsors Are Paying Millions for MSK (Musculoskeletal) Injuries That Would Have Healed Themselves, With Jay Kimmel, MD
Relentless Health Value
In this episode of Relentless Health Value, host Stacey Richter talks with Dr. Jay Kimmel, an orthopedic surgeon and co-founder of Upswing Health, about the significant costs associated with musculoskeletal (MSK) injuries and conditions for self-insured employers and other plan sponsors. They explore how a large portion of MSK-related expenses are for low-acuity injuries that often heal on their own without the need for emergency room visits or unnecessary treatments. Dr. Kimmel discusses the importance of addressing the 'white space'—the critical initial moments when a patient decides...
info_outlineIn this episode Stacey Richter speaks with Jonathan Baran, CEO of Self Fund Health in a detailed exploration of what they term the 'Flywheel Downward Spiral' of American healthcare costs. The conversation delves into how electronic health records (EHR) and the incentives driving insurers, brokers, and hospital systems contribute to consistently rising healthcare premiums.
Key points include how insurers profit from high premiums, the misleading marketing focus on discounts rather than actual costs, and the role of EHR systems in maximizing hospital profits rather than improving patient care. The episode sets the stage for a subsequent discussion on reversing these trends, aiming to align healthcare outcomes with cost reductions.
Self Fund Health, I am so pleased to tell you, as I am always so pleased to tell you, did make such a kind offer to help out Relentless Health Value financially. You and the tribe here are really, really great folks who I truly appreciate. Please support Self Fund Health if you are in Wisconsin.
This episode is sponsored by Self Fund Health.
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08:46 Entering the health system “flywheel” at the renewal phase.
09:46 What goes on in the renewal season that contributes to the health system “flywheel”?
12:28 Why is the standard 9% increase in healthcare costs during renewal season actually problematic?
13:22 How does the purchase of discounts contribute to the skyrocketing cost of healthcare and distract from discussing the actually underlying cost of healthcare?
16:07 EP465 with Chris Crawford.
17:01 Why do employers need to learn to buy healthcare and not insurance?
20:32 Rina Tikia’s post on self-funded plans.
23:18 Why are hospital executives incentivized to buy and own all of the primary care in a market?
26:35 How big electronic medical record systems play into this increase in healthcare costs.
28:27 Acquired podcast on one EHR system.
31:09 What needs to happen to reverse this flywheel of increasing healthcare costs?