#2.7: Mark Lanier in The Heart of Law

Touted by the New York Times as “One of the top civil trial lawyers in America,”  Mark Lanier graces The Heart of Law in one of the most thought-provoking episodes to date. Famed to have won about $20 Billion in verdicts, the esteemed litigator—also a theologian and preacher—lends invaluable insight into family, faith, science, law, and life.

Sharp as a tack and a transcendent seeker herself, Mirena asks penetrating questions about Mark’s Christian walk. Mark describes the awakening of his faith, the security of his salvation, and the divine friendship God has extended his way. He shares the devout life of his mother, Carolyn Lanier, who dedicated Mark to God after her prayers for the healthy birth of a son became a reality. Much like Hannah of the Old Testament, who gave up Samuel to serve Yahweh, Carolyn continuously reminded Mark throughout his youth that his life was not his own—it belonged to God. Holding on to an unborrowed faith, Mark describes affinity with God and how daily spending time in the divine Presence enriches a hallowed relationship, guiding him throughout his life.  Mirena and Mark do a deep dive, comparing notes on the confusion around the warring world religions (Hinduism, Islam, Christianity, Buddhism) that each claim the way to the “real path.” They talk about people and institutions holding ownership of Christianity but practicing cruelty, dishonesty, and acrimony. Answering all of Mirena’s gripping questions, Mark gives an interesting take on the Bible. He expounds on spirituality versus religiosity and how science is intertwined with faith. Along those lines, Mark remarks on how “elements of truth” surround us in diverse ways. But overall, he simply says: “I want the fullest picture of truth that there can be.” The perfect truth, which Mark likened to Cinderella who alone can perfectly fit into the glass slipper. An apologist at heart, we hear of  The Lanier Theological Library and Learning Center in Oxford, and the historical Yarnton Manor restoration project in Oxfordshire village to serve those who seek to enrich their theological studies.

Shifting gears to the legal business, they discuss the Johnson and Johnson Trial and Mark’s monumental $4.69 Billion verdict against the talc conglomerate. Giving his unique take on the recent bankruptcy ruling, Mark describes the tort landscape, detailing how the legal profession has radically evolved in the past decade. With Venture Capitalists coming into the picture (and sometimes even “own[ing] lots of ethical overlays in the business"), there lies an ongoing need for maturity in the business of law—especially while infusing capital into tort cases. Likewise, he observes “two basic kinds of lawyers in the mass tort arena … the chicken catchers and chicken pluckers,” steadfastly agreeing with Mirena about the need to represent plaintiffs with compassionate care. After some baklava, pita, donut, and recipe banter,  the show comes to a warm close. Mark fondly talks about his wife and children—who all practice law! As his daughter Rachel affectionately notes, they are “like the Von Trapp family lawyers” upholding justice in their unique Lanier way. And the legacy he wants to leave behind? Like Paul (the apostle) Mark hopes to have “fought the good fight” of faith, and hopes we remember him as a man who "loved his friends and loved his family, and his faith, and his God above all things.”

EPISODE SURVEY:

• [00:03:32] - [00:06:59]: A Mother’s Influence (Carolyn Lanier’s faith)
• [00:07:00] - [00:13:47]: Not a Borrowed Faith. An Ongoing Conversation with God
• [00:14:09] - [00:18:34]: Growing in Faith is An Investment of Time
• [00:23:15] - [00:43:54]: A Theological Exchange
• [00:45:25] - [00:52:14]: Mark’s Take on the Bible
• [00:56:21] - [00:59:57]: Mark's View on Science & Faith
• [01:00:06] - [01:04:50]: How Mark’s Faith Fuels His Career
• [01:04:59] - [01:08:19]: The Lanier Library in Oxford: The Yarnton Manor Restoration
• [01:09:58] - [01:15:11]: The J&J Trial and the Monumental $4.69 Billion Verdict
• [01:15:49] - [01:24:00]: Marks Thoughts on the Business of Law and Future of Mass Torts
• [01:41:00] - [01:43:27]: The Legacy Mark Hopes to Leave

QUOTABLE QUOTES:

• Mom said, “I told God, if you will give me a son, I will give that son back to you.” And lo and behold, Mom gets pregnant. I am born. From my earliest age, Mom has told me that story and she's told me, “You belong to God … You don't belong to me. I've been given the honor of getting to be your earthly mom, but you belong to Him.”
• [My mother] said “God doesn't have grandchildren, he has children. And so He's not looking for you to have a relationship that's based upon your family or based upon me or your dad ... God wants to relate to you individually.” And I found that to be true and found a relationship with God. And it's one that's lasted me all my life, but all of that grew from seeds that had been sown by my mom.
• Instead of just staying as a mysterious God …  [He] took the form of Jesus and became a friend to people and lived the life that we could understand as a friend. And that relationship is available. And so I cried out on my own. “God, that's what I need. I need a friend. I need that.”  And the presence of God was all of a sudden a very real thing to me. It was no longer academic knowledge.
• I think there's [an] evil that goes on in this world. Greed can turn people wretched, and some people's greed turns them into monsters ... So I believe that at this point in my life, there is a righteous fight. I think that's some of why I do what I do.
• ... Venture Capital is actually an equalizer that takes [a case] out of a David-versus-Goliath-mode when it comes to being able to fund the litigation; that's where the smart money is by the Venture Capitalists, and that's where it can be smartly used by lawyers.
• And so it was the recognition that I am loved, loved unconditionally, by someone who knows everything about me—Every corner and recess of my mind, any skeleton that could possibly exist in the closet of a 12-year-old kid. You know, there is someone who, with full knowledge of me, says, ‘I love you unconditionally, I care for you, and I want what's best for you.’ And within that, there was a great sense of security, because now I knew that someone took an interest in me and that this is Someone of immeasurable power and knowledge and goodness. And so there's a great deal of peace and security and a comfort. And it doesn't mean that there's not times of grief and sadness, but it means in those times of grief and sadness, there's an abiding comfort. It doesn't mean that there are times of fear and doubt, but in those times of fear and doubt, there is a Presence of courage …  it's very confirming, but it's also one that's that's convicting because it lets you see the world [from] different eyes.
• In a sense, I began to understand that there really is a difference between right and wrong and there really are some things worth fighting for. And then there are some things where it's not worth fighting for. I began to understand the importance of forgiving other people. Perhaps most importantly, I began to understand the importance of showing love to everyone that I met. Because God is crying out for people to hear and recognize His presence, in my opinion. And so if God's crying out for them, how dare I not love them as well?
• I want to care for everybody. I want to try to help people and encourage people. I want to reflect on the outside, this Presence that is in my life, on the inside. It really transformed me as a person and has continued to do so as I try to continue to grow even now, decades and decades later.
• The more time I spend with God, the better I know Him, the more intimate the relationship.
• As humans, we are hardwired to love truth. Truth and authenticity are things that when we see them, we just are attracted to them. We grab onto them. We like people who are authentic and true. We don't like people that are deceptive. We don't like to be with people that we don't trust.
• There are people in Christianity who have varying degrees of truth. They've grabbed onto I would venture to say that there are people then who are spiritual but not religious, people who have found some elements of truth and grabbed hold of them, even though they're not ready to embrace any religious system. But here's where I come out on that. I come out by saying. I want the fullest picture of truth that there can be.
• I hope when I'm dead and gone, people remember that I'm a person who loved his family and his faith, his God above all things … as I fought the good fight and I finished the race, and I kept the faith.
  

 

 

ABOUT OUR GUEST:

• Founder of The Lanier Law Firm 
• Inducted into the National Trial Lawyers’ Trial Lawyer Hall of Fame 
• Recognized as one of the “Top 100 Trial Lawyers in America” by in 2022 Benchmark Litigation 
• Honored from 2005 to 2022 as one of America’s Best Lawyers by U.S. News and World Report 
• Named The National Law Journal’s Outstanding Trial Lawyer of the Year for 2018 
• Honored by the National Trial Lawyers Association as their 2016 and 2018 Trial Lawyer of the Year 
• Selected as the President of the National Trial Lawyers Association 
• Awarded American Association of Justice’s Lifetime Achievement Award 

LINKS FROM THE SHOW: 

• Mark Lanier’s: Facebook, LinkedIn, Twitter, YouTube, Instagram
• Check out Mark’s Books!
  • Atheism on Trial: A Lawyer Examines the Case for Unbelief
  • Christianity on Trial: A Lawyer Examines the Christian Faith
  • Psalms for Living: Daily Prayers, Wisdom, and Guidance (1845 Books)
  • Torah for Living: Daily Prayers, Wisdom, and Guidance (1845 Books)
• Mark Lanier’s theological resources: Biblical Literacy and Lanier Theological Library
• Visit Mirena’s cool website and  LinkedIn
• Shownotes and podcast production by Caryl Veloso and her team at Writers' Ink