MC93 Knowing When to Move On - our final episode
Management Café
Yes, this is Tim and Pilar's last episode, so we talk about moving on and the importance of wrapping things up. Interview with Andy Gotts photographer that Pilar mentions: Find out more about Pilar and Bree’s book on loneliness in remote teams:
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MC92 Manager Mindset: Perfectionism
Management Café
In this episode, hosts Tim Burgess and Pilar Orti talk about the dangers of being a perfectionist when managing a team, and why it's different to being a perfectionist individual contributor. (And you'll hear for yourself how neither Tim nor Pilar are perfectionists...)
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MC91 Manager Mindset: Loyalty
Management Café
Hosts Tim Burgess and Pilar Orti have a good chat about the nature of loyalty, who we should be loyal to at work and what happens when we get the balance wrong.
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A quick thank you and we'll be back next year!
Management Café
Have an excellent start to 2025 - from Tim and Pilar.
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MC90 Manager Mindset: Pessimism
Management Café
Who knew that talking about pessimism could be so much fun... even if most of the laughter is self-deprecating. In today's episode, hosts Tim Burgess and Pilar Orti talk about what happens when we let our "inner pessimist" come through. For more information, visit
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MC89 Manager Mindset: Comparison
Management Café
The new series on Manager Mindsets starts with a discussion of comparison. Comparison is unavoidable, especially in the age of social media. It can feed difficult and unpleasant emotions like doubt, jealousy and imposter syndrome. Indeed, someone once said “Comparison is the thief of joy”. And if we aren’t careful comparison can even tempt us into mindlessly copying others, which takes us away from our own unique path. But in many aspects comparison can be helpful. It can be wonderfully motivating. It can show us what can be improved and help us understand what we value. It can even...
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MC88 Feedback, Mindset vs Cognitive Tendencies and Long-Covid Awareness
Management Café
As co-hosts Tim Burgess and Pilar Orti wrap up the Manager Emotions series, they explain why they're moving onto mindset, and how this is different from cognitivie tendencies (and why they might well be mixing the two up!). Plus, some feedback on our episode on Emotional Contagion, and Pilar shares an episode from Workplace Geeks where one of her connections talks about living with long-covid and how this affects her work life. Get in touch with Pilar and Tim through the
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MC87 Manager Emotions: Confusion
Management Café
Our hosts Tim Burgess and Pilar Orti talk about the many times they've been confused, the difficulties in feeling the emotion as individual and manager, and what happens when a team member becomes confused.
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MC86 Manager Emotions: Compassion
Management Café
For the sixth episode of our series on manager emotions, Tim Burgess and Pilar Orti talk about Compassion. Good leaders don't just remove obstacles and show their people the way forward. People also need to know that their leaders will support them in the hard times. And importantly, they need leaders to demonstrate compassion when they are in difficulty. This is distinct from sympathy - where the leader might acknowledge someone is suffering but not do anything to help or even really align with their emotions. Empathy is closer - it helps when leaders can demonstrate that they...
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MC85 Manager Emotions: Pride
Management Café
Welcome to the fifth episode of our series on manager emotions, where hosts Tim Burgess and Pilar Orti talk about Pride. We want to see good work, both in ourselves as managers and also in the teams that we lead. Pride creates a virtuous cycle that rewards and encourages healthy achievement. Do a good thing -> share this achievement with others -> receive recognition -> feel proud -> do more good things. But pride can be a tricky emotion in the workplace. Excessive displays of pride can turn people off. Pride can also clash with other attributes, most notably humility....
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Let's face it, management has a mixed reputation. It seems like everyone has a story to tell about their manager doing something poorly. But when we break it down, often times it's that we've had a bad experience with a manager. That person might actually be an ok manager overall or even a good manager. But in this instance they did something wrong.
Something we keep coming back to in the Management Café is how managers' mistakes impact the humans they manage. And these impacts are not trivial. People's jobs are important to them. They are linked to financial security, to their plans for the future, to their sense of self-worth and wellbeing. Bad experiences and bad managers can affect the employees for a long time afterwards.
There are many reasons why managers make mistakes. Some people just aren't suited to the job. Some aren't a good fit for a particular company or team or individual or situation. Some are still learning. It might not even be in the manager's control - for example bad behaviour might originate from someone more senior or the organisation itself. And of course managers are fallible just like everyone else. Sometimes they just mess up.
Most confusing of all is that these conditions are fluid. And it is about perception. A good manager for employee A might be a bad manager for employee B. The manager might think they did the right thing and their superiors or peers or team members might agree. But the affected employee can still disagree. Any they might all be right! As always, it's a tough job being a manager...
SHOW NOTES
00:00 mins Content warning! Talking about bad management can be triggering.
00:30 Pilar talks about her father, a senior engineer who did not like management.
2:00 People often grumble about management in general, but in reality they are talking about bad managers. There is a big difference.
3:40 It might take just one mistake for an average manager to be viewed as a bad manager. And once they are perceived as a bad manager it can be difficult to shift.
6:00 Nobody comes into management fully formed. We learn as we go and we make mistakes - many of which have an impact on the people we manage. So a person who is learning and growing as a manager will feel regret and guilt. This is not given enough importance by organisations. It's a difficult job and managers should be better supported.
7:20 Some managers take a defensive stance to protect themselves against the human impact of their actions. The phrase "It's not personal, it's just business" comes to mind...
8:15 Context is so important. If we want someone to do their best work, the environment and fit need to be right. This will be different for different people. And it can change with the circumstances. Tim shares an anecdote of managing someone who started off thinking he was a good manager, but ended up thinking he was a bad one.
10:45 When interviewing candidates, Tim could sometimes see the scars left on people through their experiences with bad managers. As Pilar points out, this experiences are carried forward into future interactions. It forms part of the psychological contract that we create with our workplace. (Check out episode #5 for more on this.)
13:40 If an employee has only experienced micromanagement, that becomes their expectation of what management is.
14:00 Manager "readmes" can be helpful for employees and managers to make their expectations and needs more explicit.
15:30 There is often a big disconnection between the people making a decision and the people impacted by that decision. Pilar shares an example from the Harvard Business Review article "Leading in the Flow of Work" (the bulk of this article was discussed in episode #74), where a hospital's administration suddenly introduced a meeting during a critical part of the day for the clinicians and staff required to attend the meeting. This sort of thing happens all the time.
17:30 Take a deep breath as Tim attempts to draw a line from society and more specifically capitalism all the way through to having a bad line manager. Pilar is, as ever, the diplomat.
21:50 Tim climbs down from the ledge but still points to systemic issues often being at the root of bad management.
23:00 Pilar points out that the bulk of bad management is not the obvious examples like bullying. Most of it is less extreme. For example, managers who don't understand the work or consult with their teams. And this is the sort of behaviour which gives a bad name to management overall. If you don't put the effort in, then you are a bad manager.
24:00 An intriguing premise from Pilar: do people love to hate managers? Do we like having managers? Even, in some sense, like having someone who we can blame?
26:15 We close with a reminder that anyone listening to this podcast (or reading these show notes) is clearly not a bad manager! You are fighting the good fight and we appreciate you.
What about you, dear listener? Why do you think management has a bad name? We'd love to hear from you!
Get in touch through our Contact Form https://managementcafepodcast.com/contact/