002 My Year with MoviePass

This episode Scot explores the year he was a MoviePass subscriber and the ups and downs of that company. We also talk with Scot's dad and actor Vivian Aalis.

Find Vivian Aalis at: https://www.youtube.com/c/VivianAalis

Today's music courtesy:
Shawn Korkie - https://www.fiverr.com/shawnkorkie
Relaxo Beats - https://www.fiverr.com/relaxo_beats
AudioVisualGods - https://www.fiverr.com/audiovisualgods
Aandy Valentine - https://www.fiverr.com/aandyvalentine

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AI-Generated Transcript:

Speaker 2: 0:22

Hi and welcome to the Perfect Show. I'm your host, scott Moppin, and this is a podcast where I catalog some of the perfect pieces of life one by one. Join me each episode as I examine something that I or someone else considers perfect. So welcome back everybody and just top of the show stuff, let me give you some closure about the sunburn. My sunburn is now totally okay. It has taken long enough between episodes that it has healed, and that doesn't, unfortunately for me, mean turn into a tan, it just means kind of sink back into my previous tone. So it either comes and goes. I don't seem to have any lasting effects, but yeah, all better. Can resume activities. Stop hiding like a pseudo vampire. So here's the deal with this show. Some of the experiences are going to be fully accessible, like Billy's Balloon was last episode, and when they are, all do my best to tell you how to access them. Some of them will only be locally accessible. I may talk about something in a certain location and if you're not there, well then I'm sorry, but you'll have to make do with me just doing my best to explain it or give you a audio version of it. But then some of them, like today, are just plain inaccessible, and that's because they are things of the past. Today's perfect thing is my year with movie pass, and that's a perfect thing for me because I love movies I always have. Two of my earliest jobs were movie related. I worked at a movie theater as soon as I could drive, when I was 16. And then I also, during senior year of high school, I worked at a video store on nights and on weekends. So I was immersed that. I mean movies were how I communicated with my dad instead of sports. That's what we talk, especially I. After college I went to Japan for a number of years. I'll get into that, I'm sure, on a number of episodes. But when I was in Japan especially, I lost the train of American sports because the time difference and the inability to access them on on TV anywhere really you just kind of fall out of it. So movies were still something that I could talk to with my parents or with my family or with friends and and have that sort of connection back and forth. So movies have always held that place and the idea of movie pass was perfect for me. So I call my dad up to talk to him about movie pass, but of course, we also just talked about movies. First I was going to say how many movies did you watch yesterday?

Speaker 1: 3:10

Let's see. I probably watched three movies yesterday.

Speaker 2: 3:15

Do you remember what they were often?

Speaker 1: 3:19

Oh, let's see, that's a good. That's a good question I had. I had a couple of movies come through on Netflix, which is, you know, I I use a lot.

Speaker 2: 3:39

Yes, the disc in the mail version.

Speaker 1: 3:43

Right, yeah, right, and I don't remember the name of this one, but it's probably a good sign for the movie. Well, I don't know, it was the. It was the first movie that I have watched all the way through where the movie itself was in a foreign language, but I liked the movie enough that I watched it with English subtitles.

Speaker 2: 4:27

This is the first foreign language film you've gotten all the way to the finish line on.

Speaker 1: 4:32

Oh yeah.

Speaker 2: 4:32

Really Well that sounds significant what?

Speaker 1: 4:35

now I got to know what this is Was it recent or now one now I can can go to my computer and I can tell you that'd be great. What, sorry, what I watched?

Speaker 2: 4:50

But now I'm fascinated the first foreign language film you've ever watched, with subtitles, all the way through.

Speaker 1: 4:57

Right, right.

Speaker 2: 5:00

It feels like there are a lot of ones that you could circle back to some really good ones.

Speaker 1: 5:05

Okay, all right, let me do a quick wake up to the computer and I'll be able to tell you what it was. Okay, oh, oh, okay. I I'm going to say it's a completeonnaise to a full thing of a was called the Assistant. Okay, it was a 2018 Ford film.

Speaker 2: 5:43

I see it.

Speaker 1: 5:44

It was in French as the primary language and since I had taken French way way on back, like in high school, I knew or in college, I guess I knew some of the words and could put together some of what was being said, but it came on immediately with a. It came on immediately with English subtitles. So it was. I did not have to request English subtitles.

Speaker 2: 6:29

Right.

Speaker 1: 6:31

It just showed up with English subtitles and it was definitely, even though not a Hitchcock movie, it was definitely a Hitchcock genre type movie.

Speaker 2: 6:59

So then, what's the deal with MoviePass? My friend, justin, first told me about it, and when he did, I thought he was describing a not real thing. And that's how I put it to other people. When I would describe it to them is I'm going to tell you about a real thing that sounds like a not real thing. So the way MoviePass worked, at least when I jumped in, was that you pay a monthly fee, which was $9.95, and in exchange you get to go to the theater and see one movie per day every day of the month. So that worked out to 28 minimum, 31 maximum movies per month for $10 total. So, even though I'm only paying $10 per month to see all these movies, when I go to the box office and get my ticket, they're charging a full ticket price. The theater is getting their full money, and then I give them a MoviePass debit card, credit card I think it was some sort of card and that would go through. It would cover the charges, and then I think on the back end, moviepass paid that off somehow. But I'm sitting here thinking I only gave MoviePass $10. And MoviePass has, in exchange, given the theaters that I'm going to hundreds of dollars. How is this possibly working. I'm like maybe it works off me because I'm constantly talking to people about MoviePass. I think I single-handedly got probably like nine or 10 people to sign up that I know of. So maybe that's how it works on people like me. But it couldn't. I'm like it should be hemorrhaging money. There's just no way this is profitable, there's no way this works and, in short, it was exactly hemorrhaging money. It was hemorrhaging to the tune of 20 million a month or sometimes up to 40 million, but I'll get into that when I go through a timeline a little bit later. At that time I think I lived maybe a four-minute drive away from the theater and I had a wife and a very young child, so they both actually went to sleep pretty early and that left me a night out with a lot of extra time on my hands. And once I got like done with some house upkeep, I was just kind of sitting there twiddling my thumbs, and so MoviePass swooped in. I was like, oh, this is perfect. As soon as the rest of my family goes to sleep, I'll just head out right down the street to the movie theater and I'll see, like the 10 o'clock or 1030, whatever is playing at that time zone at the theater, and so my first movie was Blade Runner 2049. And I went, and I went late at night and of course, in a comfortable seat, late at night in the dark arena I'm going to and did immediately fall asleep Not immediately, I made it partway through the movie, fell asleep. Absolutely no fall to the movie, it was all the condition in which I was viewing it. But the great thing about MoviePass and what I enjoyed is I went back the following day and saw it again, stayed awake during the parts that I had fallen asleep of in the first time and put all the pieces together. So I got the complete experience after only two tries. But it was amazing because just that first ticket, the first night I went to a night theater and normally I had been going to see Matt and A's or the cheaper end of shows or wait till a cheap day, but this first ticket was, I think, 1249, maybe for an evening ticket, which is not terribly expensive for movies in this day and age. But considering that I had only given 9.99 for the movie pass, I was already feeling like I had gotten away with something as I walked into my very first movie. So let me try and give a real quick MoviePass timeline. I tried doing a more detailed version of this, but it was getting way too cumbersome, so I'm pulling from a digitaltrendscom article and Wikipedia. So if you want more detail than what I've got, check out those two places. They have a lot more because I'm leaving a lot out. So basic overview for MoviePass. June 2011 it starts for the first time in San Francisco and they get 19,000 people to sign up. In October 2012, they do a national test for MoviePass, a beta test. Then by 2016,. June 2016, they throw out a $50 monthly fee for six movies a month and a $99 monthly pass for unlimited movies. July 2016, there's a new tier based thing with offering for two movies a month and a lower price, and unlimited is still there, but it's between $40 or $50 a month. December 2016, they now have 20,000 subscribers. And then there's the big move August 2017, moviepass announces a drop to $10 per month for unlimited movies one per day. September one month after bringing in the new price point, they get to 400,000 subscribers. They are wary about subscribers who are going to be seeing more than one movie per month. And speaking of subscribers who are gonna see more than one movie per month. That is exactly where I come into the story. I signed up for $995 a month on September 25th 2017 at 11.54 PM. I got this through email records. I get my card about a month later, on the 17th of October. I use it two days after that and then we are off to the races. Mid-november I get an email offering to upgrade for a full year for $6.95 a month, but I have to pay the full year. I'm like yes, please. I think at this point, moviepass is like we need cash now. Let's see what we can do to get a lot of cash come in quick. So that's where they get their year people paying for year-long subscriptions at that point, which gives them the upfront capital. In December 2017, moviepass announces that it now is at one million subscribers. I got my dad in that same month. I got my dad a six month pass to MoviePass as a Christmas gift. So I remember I think I looked it up, but I sent you a six month MoviePass for a Christmas gift, I think in 2017. Yes, you did, and how did you like it? Did you do positive?

Speaker 1: 13:43

things or any problems with it. Definitely, definitely really enjoyed it and definitely enjoyed going to see movies.

Speaker 2: 13:56

And how often did you use it? Per week or per month or whatever you estimation you think would make?

Speaker 1: 14:04

sense I probably used it two to three times per week. I remember that movie pass encouraged me to get out to the theaters. Obviously this was pre-COVID times, but it encouraged me to go to the theater.

Speaker 2: 14:39

In April 2018, movie Pass comes out and says it is now losing $20 million per month. In May it is the first time I start getting some of the major shenanigans. They start putting a lot of stuff to change the subscription. The first one was making sure you can't see movies more than once or you can't see new movies or certain movies. They would try to channel you to certain movies. May is the first time I have a record of my movie ticket stubs that I'm taking photos of for the app. They would have you purchase a ticket and then take a picture of that stub to prove that you had it in hand and you weren't just using the service over and over again but not actually seeing any of the movies. In June they now have moved past 3 million subscribers. They also introduced surge pricing for certain movies to add extra $2-$6 fees per ticket, even for Movie Pass subscribers. I don't remember ever paying for that. I think I went around that by going to get tickets for older or less popular movies and then just either seeing those. My theater had a ticket taker just inside the door and then the theaters were kind of open on either side of the concession. You could go into. Whatever theater you walked into, I would sometimes get a ticket for a movie that I wasn't going to see and then go see the movie that I was blocked from seeing on Movie Pass. July. Movie Pass borrows another $5 million in an emergency sort of situation. In August. I get an email now telling me I have to update or cancel. I have to either update to a new plan that allows me three movies per month instead of one movie per day or I have to cancel it completely. If I cancel, I can't come back for nine months. I think I ignored the email and just kind of figured that they would shut me out. Eventually. I didn't actually see a movie for I think, eight or nine weeks there while I was waiting it out and refusing to use the app because the app would funnel me through and make me update, which would make me agree to the new terms. I wasn't going to agree to the new terms because I still had my year deal set. It was kind of a stalemate for a little while where I didn't use it. I definitely remember seeing Venom and Bad Times at the El Royale, both of which came out in October. I know that I stuck around at least with Movie Pass abilities until that point. I do remember that as it went on, the app was getting less and less functional and it was becoming more and more frustrating. I think that after October I was pretty much out In October. There's also an investigation opened into Movie Pass for fraud. The next email I have is from April 19th of 2019 saying welcome to Movie Pass. I guess I signed back up and they had a service ready to go again in April. I don't remember a lot about this second one. I remember that there were a lot more shenanigans involved in using and redeeming your Movie Pass and that there were things about like it would run out of Movie Times quickly during the day. I think my theory was that it had a pool of money that it would draw from. As soon as people used enough movie tickets to use up that pool, it would kind of shut off the faucets and everything else would be like no available times for this movie. That pool would get used up by people on the East Coast. Since I'm on the West Coast, it would almost always be blocked. By the time I got to a space where I could use it, I started going on my breaks from work early and getting passes for later in that afternoon or evening, and that was working. I used it to see movies that way for a while. But I don't remember a ton about the second one. I just remember that I kind of rode with it for a few months, but I was out before the end of the summer. On August 20 of 2019, movie Pass had like a breach with their security breach and tons of their client account stuff was exposed. That was a problem that they were dealing with on top of all the financial stuff, on top of fighting with the theaters back and forth about revenue sharing or using their service at their different places. On September 14 of 2019, movie Pass shut down its ticketing service. On January 28 of 2020, movie Pass' parent company filed for Chapter 7 bankruptcy and announced that it ceased all business operations and that was pretty much the end. So during this time I mostly saw movies at that theater four minutes down the road, and that summer I started seeing a new Coke commercial on the front of every movie. It starts with a pair of people headed up a theater escalator holding coax while they talk about movies. Then it switches scenes and conversations every few seconds to create sort of a mad lip of dialogue. In no time I had the whole thing memorized, but there was one part I remembered the best. I don't know if it was something about that transition or if I just like hot dogs, but forget the 9 announcements for me to put my phone away. That was the signal for me that the movie was about to begin. It was such a part of my experience that I went to look for it again as I was planning this episode and I found it on YouTube. I also happened to see the uploader's profile picture and I recognized her immediately. I mean, of course, of course, actors have acting reels. That's exactly what I had found. I reached out to see if she would be willing to talk with me for the show and for my first interview. I couldn't have made a more classic blunder, but I recovered and Vivian was a total pro throughout. I wanted to see if I could call you up and talk to you about the cinema guide that you did a few years ago. During that time, the commercial that you were featured in was playing before every movie.

Speaker 3: 22:08

I imagine you saw it all the time, so when you first saw it I think I filmed it close to around that time it was well, it was definitely. I think it was 2018 when it was filmed.

Speaker 2: 22:24

And are you a big moviegoer?

Speaker 3: 22:26

Oh, of course. Yeah, I went to school for acting and that's my passion, so I'm obsessed with movies. Definitely, I feel like going to see a movie is like that classic American thing.

Speaker 2: 22:40

Absolutely yeah.

Speaker 3: 22:41

Even like when you go to date someone too. It's like when you think of like your first date, that's like one of the big things that comes to mind is like go to a film and then go to eat dinner afterward. You know what I mean.

Speaker 2: 22:53

So did you run into your own ad at the front of movies, often when you were going to see them yourself?

Speaker 3: 22:58

Oh, I did yeah.

Speaker 2: 23:00

Does that get weirder? As an actress, do you get used to that at a certain point and it doesn't really faze you.

Speaker 3: 23:05

I know a lot of actors don't like seeing themselves, but I've always found that I like watching it back because I think to myself okay, oh, I could have done this or what I would have done better or changed. I'm definitely more of like a critical person. I like to like critique and see what I could have done differently. So I liked watching it. And also I liked watching my peers too, because the other people that I worked with. They were so amazing and they were really funny and I like watching the work that they did too.

Speaker 2: 23:35

We talked a bit about how the commercial was made and Vivian's co-stars.

Speaker 3: 23:40

Yeah, each one was filmed at a different time slot, so we would have our specific time slot. They'd be like, okay, now Vivian and her co-star, you come together and we're gonna film your spot, and then we have the main lead. That was the couple at the very beginning going up the escalator, and then the two girls, the jalapeno. That's hot, and they're filmed together.

Speaker 2: 24:09

The pepperoni pizza, gentlemen.

Speaker 3: 24:11

Yeah, they may not have been twins, they might've just been friends, but I always think of them as twins. I don't know why.

Speaker 2: 24:17

So was movie pass? Just cause my episode's about movie pass? Was movie pass something that you were aware of yourself or had?

Speaker 3: 24:26

I was. I never got a chance to get. Actually, my co-star had it and he was telling me about it. I never. I never wound up getting it while I was out there, but I don't know why it just never wound up happening.

Speaker 2: 24:40

It was very flash in the pan. It kind of flared up and then flew too bright. It no longer exists. It no longer exists. Oh. Do you have a favorite movie or anything you would classify as your favorite movie of all time?

Speaker 3: 24:56

Oh, absolutely oh yeah, okay. Yeah, my favorite movie is called Gigi. It has Leslie Calron, louis Jaldon and Maurice Chevalier in it and it's like a musical type movie. It's got like romance and drama and it's about this young girl who is coming into her own, she's growing up and she's slowly becoming a woman. She's friends with this young, rich bachelor who's been dating a bunch of women, trying to look for his perfect woman or whatever, and she lives with her grandmother yes, her grandmother and her mother ran off and became an opera singer and has nothing really to do with her.

Speaker 2: 25:55

As one does.

Speaker 3: 25:56

yes, Exactly, you know, as a mother does. And they're trying to raise Gigi to be this polite lady so that she can become someone who like marries and settles down. But she's like a rebel, you know. And then the guest on that's his name. He falls in love with Gigi when he realizes that she's becoming like a woman and they want her to like bend over backwards for him and she's like, no, I'm not gonna do that. He's been a family friend forever and I'm gonna be myself and he's gonna have to get over that. And it's a great film. It's definitely worth watching. This is basically about those little perfect moments that people connect to and, I imagine, like change people's life for the better, right.

Speaker 2: 26:52

Like I think so.

Speaker 3: 26:54

Because for me, that's kind of like what movies are? I've watched a lot of films that have changed my life and definitely like going to movies and watching them, having that full experience and kind of being enveloped by that world and kind of transferring yourself into that world. You feel like you can escape your present reality for a little bit, especially during times like right now, when we're going through so much together as a country and as a people it's not even just as a country, as our world, you know, with climate change and with the pandemic and there's just so much going on and people are really suffering. It's a way to escape and it's also a way to connect and I think movies have always been a really great way to express that and also to express our humanity. And I think it's really beautiful and it's a good reminder that don't forget to go to the movies, don't forget to, you know, take that moment to escape and and to try to connect with other people and remember how important it is and to be human, you know.

Speaker 2: 28:22

I decided the interview is going well enough that I could risk messing it up with an idea. So I got to admit to a slight ulterior motive here. I was wondering if you would be willing to run the line with me, so where I would lead you into the line before, so the jalapeno line, and then you cut me off with the hot dog line. Oh for sure That'd be okay, so I'll be like. I've been practicing too, so I'm ready on my end, but let's see if I can do this. I'm not a professional, but I'll give it a go.

Speaker 3: 28:53

Yeah, I hope. I hope I remember my line, but I think I got it.

Speaker 2: 28:57

All right, so jalapeno, wow, that's hot dog. Yes, fantastic, that's awesome. That's everything I wanted it to be, thank you.

Speaker 3: 29:14

I wonder, if you compared the two voice samples like, how similar they would be. I was trying to make it sound almost exactly like.

Speaker 2: 29:24

I think, I think we nailed it. I think I think I was probably a little bit off, but I think you nailed it.

Speaker 1: 29:31

Thank you.

Speaker 2: 29:43

So what all did I see during this stretch of the theater that the app became inaccessible at a point. So I can't go back and look at my history I just made. I used my movie pass probably 150 times during that 2017 2018 chunk. But the highlights for me At the top our family really got into the greatest showman. It's a fun musical about PT Bartom's life that in no way reflects his actual life, but they've made a fun musical out of it and we watched it a bunch. I think I saw it maybe 10 or 11 times in the theater. It just became comfort food at some point if nothing else was on Mike will, I'll go see the greatest showman again. It was great. I saw Black Panther a few times, ragnarok a few times. Happy death day was one that I took a chance on early. That was really fun. Actually, I was not expecting it to be as fun of. It's kind of a groundhog day Mixed with the horror movie concept. It's really fun. Upgrade was another one I wasn't expecting. I think I just took a chance on it and it's that's one kind of a lower budget movie where A guy gets a computer chip in him that, as computer chips do, start taking over. So you get fun fight scenes where the actor gets to look surprised and amazed and repulsed at what his own body is doing Really fun then the the Phantom Thread was a good one. During that time I'm always happy to see a new Paul Thomas Anderson movie. This was a chunk of time that I started my habit of going to see all the huge releases on the Thursday before, because A lot of people go on Friday night. Friday and Saturday are packed, but I mean I was in the habit of going late at night anyway, and Thursday night they pretty much start the new movies at seven o'clock the night before so I could go and see like Infinity War on the Thursday night and not have to fight the crowds on Friday is fantastic, I love to do that, but I, yeah, I saw, I saw everything. Some clunkers Daddy's home to comes to mind that I mean I wasn't expecting a ton, but there's a legit 30 minute like product placement commercial in the movie in the middle of that movie. For for a theater it is Astounding three billboards outside of having Missouri yikes, that is. Yeah, that was one. Justice League was that was a big mess. Yeah, those that's what comes to mind for under the category of clunkers. But so, when it was all said and done, I saw a ton more movies than I would have seen otherwise. I went back to theaters for more than just the event movies, the 3D films, the kid movies, which those were the ones I almost exclusively saw prior to movie pass. I saw movies that I never would have taken a chance on, like I was talking about. I transferred a ton of movie passes money to the local theaters around me and the chain theaters to. I guess. I got a ton of free air conditioning at times during the summer when I would have Paid just to sit in an air conditioned room, much less have the movie aspect of it. And I think after it was over, I kept going back to more movies than I was going to previously. It started to have it that stuck to a degree. I wasn't going to see as much, I wasn't going to see nearly as frequently, but, but I was going to see more. I even remember the kind of shock when I had to start paying for my own movies again. I was just like what, what this is? It was just a back to reality sort of moment. But I promptly switched back to my habit of seeing the early morning matinee and the special discount day movies on those days instead. More than anything, I think movie pass helped me remember that I enjoyed seeing movies and theaters with other people. Again I bring this up now because it seems like we're currently in a similarly precarious situation. I did a lot during that main year. I had my movie pass. I went through the stress of moving home renovations. I also started and had a stressful breakup with a new job during this time period. Going to the movies was a real comfort during all these challenges is something about sitting there in the dark knowing that professionals had written the next two hours of my life and I could let go. People were once again worried about the state of theaters. There's talk of them all just shutting down and that being an old thing that we don't do anymore. Man, I really hope not. I wanted to ask Vivian one more thing in our interview. So have you gone back to theaters since the, since the COVID pandemic or since quarantine?

Speaker 3: 34:48

That's a good question that has definitely, I'd say, put a wrench into my happiness. I think in everyone's happiness.

Speaker 2: 34:57

For sure, for sure.

Speaker 3: 34:59

For sure, but definitely in terms of like movie going, because that was something I enjoyed doing all the time. Even I would just go by myself too, of course I loved like bringing friends along, but I would just walk to a movie theater and just go in and just pick a movie and just go watch it.

Speaker 2: 35:17

That's sort of the best right.

Speaker 3: 35:18

Yeah, it's like what's in here? Yeah, or just be like hey, what's a person in front of me? What are they watching?

Speaker 2: 35:26

Ooh, that's staring, yeah.

Speaker 3: 35:31

You just gotta take that chance. You know what I mean.

Speaker 2: 35:33

Jump off the cliff and let it fall away.

Speaker 3: 35:35

Precisely. Yeah, hope you have a parachute, but yeah, the pandemic definitely ruined that quite a bit. Unfortunately, I haven't really gone to the theater since then. In the small town where I went back to the theater that was there because of the pandemic, all these small businesses really suffered and that theater is kind of like closed down, which really sucks. Yeah, so it's like you have to like drive a long ways to get to one, so it's just kind of sad. But I feel like movies in general have changed a lot, definitely with acting as well. I was supposed to be cast in a pilot and that's kind of been like pushed back quite a bit as well and like the quarantining and everything and has been the dynamic for acting and making film has even been weird. So even like going to see a film and making one has all been very strange because of COVID. So I don't know, definitely makes it sad. You know, movies it's a whole different experience because you're actually like sitting there in the theater with the whole vibe as the lights go down and the popcorn and you know. And that's a whole other experience too because you have to have someone that's like physically there and like making it with their hands and everything and like everybody's so weirded out now with putting their hands in things and which is understandable completely. Just, it's so much has changed. You know, it's such a strange dynamic now. Yeah, I've seen two movies and theaters since coming back and it's weird, it's worrisome but it's also really nice to be back in a theater again.

Speaker 2: 37:36

There's something amazing about experiencing art with other people. That's why a museum works. It's why a concert works. It's absolutely amazing, and I think that's why I'm so excited to be back in a theater again. And I think that's why I'm so excited to be back in a theater again, if it works. It's absolutely why a movie theater works. I want these things to be around for my kid to enjoy the way that I did, and so that I can see big stories on big screens. And with that, my year of MoviePass goes up on the shelf as the second item in the Perfectorium, the index of perfect things. Thanks again to Vivian Alice and my dad for being on the show. This episode's music comes from Sean Corky, relaxo Beats, audiovisualgod and Andy Valentine. Everyone's links will be on the webpage and in the show notes. Well, I mean not my dad's, but Once again, the Perfect Show site is at PerfectShowsite that's S-I-T-E and find us on Twitter, instagram and YouTube under the name PerfectShowShow. This episode was recorded and mixed at Morena Studios in Oakland, california. If you're enjoying these, be sure to subscribe, and if you want to drop the Perfect Show, a perfect rating, please do. I hear other podcasts I listen to talk about doing this often, so I know at least they think it's an important piece when starting up and I'd probably be wise to follow suit. Oh, I've been using Fiverr to get music and other freelance things I've needed for this podcast, but I'm still very open to other music, stingers, themes, comments or whatever people feel inspired to send, email them to PerfectShowShowcom. And remember, if someone in your life mentions how they just can't find the Perfect Show to listen to, now you have the power the dad joke, cringe-inducing power to point them here and risk losing either your friendship with that person or the place you previously held in their mind as someone who would never use that moment to interject just a dumb joke of a show name. But it turns out they were wrong this whole time, because that's exactly the type of person you happen to be. Anyway, until next time, I'm Scott Moppin, and thanks for listening to the Perfect Show.