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Continuous Strategy Engineering—Beyond Waterfall Planning With Tom Gilb and Simon Holzapfel

Scrum Master Toolbox Podcast: Agile storytelling from the trenches

Release Date: 12/09/2025

Coaching Product Owners to Be the Voice of the Customer | Steve Martin show art Coaching Product Owners to Be the Voice of the Customer | Steve Martin

Scrum Master Toolbox Podcast: Agile storytelling from the trenches

Steve Martin: Coaching Product Owners to Be the Voice of the Customer In this episode, we refer to video and . The Great Product Owner: Rob Gard's Customer Obsession Read the full Show Notes and search through the world's largest audio library on Agile and Scrum directly on the Scrum Master Toolbox Podcast website: .   "The role of the PO really is to help the team empathize with the user, the customer of the product, because that's how they can develop great solutions." - Steve Martin   Rob Gard worked at a fintech firm and is now CPO of a major fintech company. Steve...

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Making Scrum Master Success Visible with OKRs That Actually Work | Steve Martin show art Making Scrum Master Success Visible with OKRs That Actually Work | Steve Martin

Scrum Master Toolbox Podcast: Agile storytelling from the trenches

Steve Martin: Making Scrum Master Success Visible with OKRs That Actually Work Read the full Show Notes and search through the world's largest audio library on Agile and Scrum directly on the Scrum Master Toolbox Podcast website: .   "It is not the retrospective that is the success of the retrospective. It is the ownership and accountability where you take improvements after the session." - Steve Martin   The biggest problem for Scrum Masters isn't just defining success—it's being able to shout it from the rooftops with tangible evidence. Steve champions OKRs as an amazing...

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Why Agile Fatigue Means We Need to Change Our Approach | Steve Martin show art Why Agile Fatigue Means We Need to Change Our Approach | Steve Martin

Scrum Master Toolbox Podcast: Agile storytelling from the trenches

Steve Martin: Why Agile Fatigue Means We Need to Change Our Approach Read the full Show Notes and search through the world's largest audio library on Agile and Scrum directly on the Scrum Master Toolbox Podcast website: .   "We teach transformation, we support transformation, we help change, but we don't really understand what they're changing from." - Steve Martin   Steve believes Agile as a whole is on the back foot, possibly regressing. There's palpable fatigue in the industry, and transformation in its current form hasn't been the success we hoped. Organizations still...

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When a Distributed Team's Energy Vanishes into the Virtual Void | Steve Martin show art When a Distributed Team's Energy Vanishes into the Virtual Void | Steve Martin

Scrum Master Toolbox Podcast: Agile storytelling from the trenches

Steve Martin: When a Distributed Team's Energy Vanishes into the Virtual Void Read the full Show Notes and search through the world's largest audio library on Agile and Scrum directly on the Scrum Master Toolbox Podcast website: .   "They weren't a team, they were a group of individuals working on multiple different projects." - Vasco Duarte (describing Steve's team situation)   The infrastructure team looked promising on paper: Product Owner in Italy, hardware engineers in Budapest, software engineers in Bucharest, designers in the UK. The team started with energy and...

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When the Gospel of Agile Becomes a Barrier to Change | Steve Martin show art When the Gospel of Agile Becomes a Barrier to Change | Steve Martin

Scrum Master Toolbox Podcast: Agile storytelling from the trenches

Steve Martin: When the Gospel of Agile Becomes a Barrier to Change Read the full Show Notes and search through the world's largest audio library on Agile and Scrum directly on the Scrum Master Toolbox Podcast website: .   "It took me a while to realize that that's what I was doing. I felt the reason wasn't working was them, it wasn't me." - Steve Martin   Steve carried the Scrum Guide like a Bible in his early days as an Agile coach. He was a purist—convinced he had an army of Agile practitioners behind him, ready to transform every team he encountered. When teams...

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BONUS The Operating System for Software-Native Organizations - The Five Core Principles With Vasco Duarte show art BONUS The Operating System for Software-Native Organizations - The Five Core Principles With Vasco Duarte

Scrum Master Toolbox Podcast: Agile storytelling from the trenches

BONUS: The Operating System for Software-Native Organizations - The Five Core Principles In this BONUS episode, the final installment of our Special Xmas 2025 reflection on Software-native businesses, we explore the five fundamental principles that form the operating system for software-native organizations. Building on the previous four episodes, this conversation provides the blueprint for building organizations that can adapt at the speed of modern business demands, where the average company lifespan on the S&P 500 has dropped from 33 years in the 1960s to a projected 12 years by...

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Scrum Master Toolbox Podcast: Agile storytelling from the trenches

BONUS: Breaking Through The Organizational Immune System - Why Software-Native Organizations Are Still Rare With Vasco Duarte In this BONUS episode, we explore the organizational barriers that prevent companies from becoming truly software-native. Despite having proof that agile, iterative approaches work at scale—from Spotify to Amazon to Etsy—most organizations still struggle to adopt these practices. We reveal the root cause behind this resistance and expose four critical barriers that form what we call "The Organizational Immune System." This isn't about resistance to change; it's...

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BONUS: Recovering the Essence of Agile - What's Already Working With Vasco Duarte show art BONUS: Recovering the Essence of Agile - What's Already Working With Vasco Duarte

Scrum Master Toolbox Podcast: Agile storytelling from the trenches

Xmas Special: Recovering the Essence of Agile - What's Already Working in Software-Native Organizations In this BONUS Xmas Special episode, we explore what happens when we strip away the certifications and branded frameworks to recover the essential practices that make software development work. Building on Episode 2's exploration of the Project Management Trap, Vasco reveals how the core insights that sparked the Agile revolution remain valid - and how real organizations like Spotify, Amazon, and Etsy embody these principles to thrive in today's software-driven world. The answer isn't to...

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Xmas Special: Why project management tools fail software development - and what works instead! show art Xmas Special: Why project management tools fail software development - and what works instead!

Scrum Master Toolbox Podcast: Agile storytelling from the trenches

Xmas Special: Why project management tools fail software development - and what works instead! In this BONUS episode, we dive deep into The Project Management Trap, continuing our exploration from Episode 1 where we established that software is societal infrastructure being managed with tools from the 1800s. We examine why project management frameworks - designed for building railroads and ships - are fundamentally misaligned with software development, and what happens when we treat living capabilities like construction projects with defined endpoints. The Origin Story - Where Project...

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Xmas Special: Software Industry Transformation - Why Software Development Must Mature With Vasco Duarte show art Xmas Special: Software Industry Transformation - Why Software Development Must Mature With Vasco Duarte

Scrum Master Toolbox Podcast: Agile storytelling from the trenches

Xmas Special: Software Industry Transformation - Why Software Development Must Mature - a five-episode deep dive into how software as an industry needs to transform. In this opening episode, we explore the fundamental disconnect between how we manage software and what software actually is. From small businesses to global infrastructure, software has become the backbone of modern society, yet we continue to manage it with tools designed for building ships in the 1800s. This episode sets the stage for understanding why software development must evolve into a mature discipline. Software...

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BONUS: Continuous Strategy Engineering—Beyond Waterfall Planning With Tom Gilb and Simon Holzapfel

Strategy Professors Are Decades Behind

"The professors of strategy have no clue as to what Evo is. They are locked in decades ago, waterfall mode."

 

Tom's analysis is stark: the people teaching strategy in business schools haven't undergone the same agile transformation that software development experienced. They still think in terms of 5-year plans that get tested at the end—a guaranteed recipe for discovering failure too late. The alternative? Decompose any large strategy into weekly value delivery steps. And if you think that's impossible, ask any AI to do it for you—it will produce 52 reasonable weekly increments in about a minute.

Why OKRs Aren't Enough for Complex Systems

"If you're doing small-scale stuff that OKRs were designed for, like planning your personal work 14 days hence, OKRs are wonderful. If you're designing the air traffic control system for Europe, they're just too simple."

 

Tom distinguishes between tools appropriate for personal productivity and those needed for complex organizational strategy. OKRs force some thinking, which is good, but they weren't designed for—and have never been adapted to—large-scale systems engineering. His paper "What is Wrong with OKRs?" documents roughly 100 gaps between simple OKRs and what robust value requirements actually require.

Check out Tom Gilb’s paper on what’s wrong with OKR’s and how to fix it

The Missing Alignment Layer

"We have no mental model for most of leadership about how you actually align people around clear vision."

 

Simon introduces the concept of a Hoshin-Kanri “sprinkler” system—imagine strategic clarity flowing from the top and misting over everyone's desk as alignment. Most organizations lack anything resembling this. They have Moses descending from expensive consultant retreats with tablets, but no continuous two-way flow of strategic information. The result? Teams work hard on things that don't matter while critical values go unaddressed.

About Tom Gilb and Simon Holzapfel

 

Tom Gilb, born in the US, lived in London, and then moved to Norway in 1958. An independent teacher, consultant, and writer, he has worked in software engineering, corporate top management, and large-scale systems engineering. As the saying goes, Tom was writing about Agile before Agile was named. In 1976, Tom introduced the term "evolutionary" in his book Software Metrics, advocating for development in small, measurable steps. Today, we talk about Evo, the name Tom uses to describe his approach. Tom has worked with Dr. Deming and holds a certificate personally signed by him.

You can listen to Tom Gilb’s previous episodes here

 

You can link with Tom Gilb on LinkedIn 

 

Simon Holzapfel is an educator, coach, and learning innovator who helps teams work with greater clarity, speed, and purpose. He specializes in separating strategy from tactics, enabling short-cycle decision-making and higher-value workflows. Simon has spent his career coaching individuals and teams to achieve performance with deeper meaning and joy. Simon is also the author of the Equonomist newsletter on Substack.

And you can listen to Simon’s previous episodes on the podcast here

 

You can link with Simon Holzapfel on LinkedIn.