Episode 39 - Trust, Talent and Technology Transfer with Mark Hutchinson

In this episode, I had the great pleasure of having a wide-ranging discussion with Professor Mark Hutchinson. He is currently a member of Australia’s National Science and Technology Council, Advisory Board Member to Australian Economic Accelerator Program, recent past president of Science and Technology Australia, and has been a successful research leader and tech transfer advocate for over 15 years at the University of Adelaide, largely centred on the ARC Centre for Nanoscale Bio-Photonics and Neuro-immunopharmacology Laboratory.

 We quickly uncover one of Mark’s modus operandi which is to seek forgiveness and not permission. This approach allowed him to get on with addressing roadblocks and challenges in developing and delivering solutions to willing and engaged partners. Given Mark’s early experiences in academia in Australia and at University of Colorado at Boulder, we touch on Australian cultural challenges of researchers moving between private, government and research sectors, and differences in partner scale between his USA and Australian activities.

 Mark reflects on his 2024 experiences at BIO in San Diego and notes the open engagement culture, the lack of non-disclosure agreements, and the focus on relationships. We contrast this with our observations around Australian tech transfer and Mark raises the notion that we could be suffering from a culture of locked in scarcity where the glass is always half empty. We then discuss some of the arising challenges of tech transfer with a scarcity mentality.

 We then explore Mark’s successful tech transfer experiences and reflect on the experience of a doctoral student, the cadence of engagement, and the need to change direction to reflect changing circumstances. We also touch on the need to get comfortable with uncertainty and contrast organisational and experimental (or bench) uncertainty. The domestic employment arrangements and consequences are also explored, touching on the Vice Chancellor’s Challenge that David Mitchell discussed in Episode 11.

 We discuss AUKUS and the innovation and tech transfer opportunities, touching on co-creation as a driver of economic growth through dual use technologies and the opportunities for SMEs. Mark reflectsd on the need to 'get sticky; with our deals and partnerships (which is a variation on the concept discussed with Angeline Achariya in Episode 38) and look to a 'hook and loop' component to government transactions, somewhat inspired by the thinking of Marianna Mazzucato. We discuss the cultural challenge of risk aversion to sharing ideas in this brave new world, and the need to make change through talent heading abroad for experiences and have them returning into a welcoming and engaged innovation system and share stories of success.

 Mark shares his paper transportation challenge', noting that not all innovation comes through PhDs! We reflect on the importance of Minimum Viable Products and the importance of engineering alongside research to get products to market. This introduces the notion of scale, which we started discussing on the podcast; firstly with Katherine Woodthorpe) at the start of 2023 and  highlighted further at the National Innovation Policy Forum in November 2023. We also touch on this getting discussed by Michael Liebreich with Rosie Barnes in an episode of Cleaning Up. Mark notes that there is a perception that fundamental science is worth more than the translation bridge, however they need to exist in a dynamic equilibrium.

 We wrap up our discussion with an impassioned close from Mark around believing in your product, solutions arising from teams, and being prepared to listen to the market and adapt while pressing forward.