208: Best Travel Credit Cards for Families

Wondering how to earn more points towards travel? Trying to decide which travel credit card is the best fit for your family? This week we chat with points and miles expert Jennifer Yellin about the best travel credit cards for families. Kim and Tamara also talk about the changing travel restrictions in Europe, the Caribbean, and cruises. Note that since this podcast was recorded, Italy has also dropped its testing requirement for fully vaccinated travelers.

About Jennifer Yellin

Jennifer Yellin is the founder of Deals We Like, where she helps her readers travel on a deal. She writes about everything travel related, such as travel credit cards, travel rewards (points and miles) and travel destinations. Jennifer is also a freelance writer for CNN Underscored and The Points Guy where she writes on similar travel topics. Jennifer loves traveling to beach destinations and embracing ski trips with her family.

How to Pick the Best Travel Credit Card for your Family

• For family travel, you need to book early if you are looking to use points since they are popular times to travel and you need more seats than if you are traveling solo
• When choosing a credit card to start using points there are some that are very easy to redeem points, like Capital One which allows you to earn points and then use the points eraser to erase the travel charge on your credit card. Others, like Chase Ultimate Rewards, you transfer your points to airline or hotel programs to use your points. You can get better value that way but it takes a little more work
• There are also airline or hotel specific cards that provide certain perks, like a free night certificate or free baggage, that can be valuable if you are able to fully utilize it
• Also look at the annual fees and make sure you are getting more value than you are paying in annual fees
• The Hyatt card will help you earn Globalist status, which will provide nice perks like room upgrades. See our episode about the best hotel loyalty programs
• Southwest is a popular card for Southwest fliers that can earn the Companion Pass (see our episode about flying families for free)
• The Chase Sapphire Preferred is a great card but wait to sign up until they have a very good sign up bonus. Points transfer easily on a one-to-one basis and you can even book through their travel portal. They have a partnership with Southwest and OneWorld Alliance members like American and British Airways
• If you transfer 1-to-1 to Hyatt, you will get more value out of your points then transferring to Marriott
• If you do decide to have multiple cards, make a note of which cards give more points for specific categories (e.g. gas, travel, supermarket) and put a piece of tape or label on each card and write on it which category to use that card for
• If you have a specific trip in mind, find out what hotel you want to stay at and then look at signing up for that hotel brand credit card and sign up when there is a good bonus (unless a card like Chase has a better welcome offer)
• You can also sign up for credit cards in you and your partner's name or a personal and business card to get multiple sign up offers if you have a specific trip in mind
• When you want to use points for a family, it can be hard to find enough free seats for everyone. Just keep in mind that if you book separately you may end up separated if they reshuffle the flights but you can try to get the itineraries linked to avoid this
• If you have status, you probably want to buy a ticket for the person with status and use points for the rest
• Expert Flyer is a membership website that helps you find special award availability
• For international airlines, it also helps to use an award booking service to help find flights to a specific destination, these usually cost about $150-200. Usually you don't pay unless you can book
• You can use Point.me (used to be Juicy Miles) where you put in your itinerary and the system will provide you with options that you can book and that is a less expensive service because it is automated
• When you transfer points, it can take 24-48 hours for the points to show up in your account and you can't book until they are available. You can Google how long it takes to transfer points between specific programs
• Once you transfer points from your credit card to an airline or hotel program, you can switch them back to the credit card so be sure you want to use them
• To earn additional points, sign up for every shopping portal available such as eBates/Rakuten (for cash back or points), some have Chrome Extensions to remind you to purchase through the portal. Most mainstream ecommerce sites will earn you points
• There are also a lot of sign up bonuses around big shopping weekends
• Cashbackholic will show you which shopping portals offer the best rates/points offers
• EV Rewards will also compare for you
• Always look at the targeted offers that are sent to you from your credit card companies to earn extra points or cash back
• Buy gift cards through shopping portals, put purchases on credit card and have others pay you back for group dinners, class gifts, etc.
• Never sign up for a credit card without a sign up offer
• Southwest currently has a good offer for earning a Southwest Companion Pass
• Make sure you can always easily meet the minimum spend requirements when signing up for a new card
• If you are applying for a mortgage or a loan soon, don't apply for a new credit card, but otherwise it won't hurt your credit score
• Cancel cards when you are no longer getting value, but you can also call and see if you can get a fee waived or reduced
• If you have applied for 5 or more Chase cards in 24 months, you can't get approved for a new card and Amex offers are usually once in a lifetime but you may be able to get it once they roll off your credit card in seven years or so

Full Episode Transcript

[00:00:00.190] - Kim Tate

Stay tuned to find out how you can charge your way to free travel.

[00:00:15.450] - Announcer

Welcome to Vacation Mavens, a family travel podcast with ideas for your next vacation and tips to get you out the door. Here are your hosts, Kim from Stuffed Suitcase and Tamara from We 3 Travel.

[00:00:29.890] - Kim Tate

Tamara. It's kind of a fun intro today because I feel like we're going to share some happy news for a change that's happening. Do you want to kick us off and start talking about some changes that are happening in the travel space lately?

[00:00:41.710] - Tamara Gruber

Yeah. I mean, just overall, I think everyone feels a whole lot better than they did a month ago, for sure. And I know traffic to my website showing that people are more interested in international travel than they have been, for obvious reasons. But it's just so nice to be on the side of things where it's like things are getting better.

[00:00:58.670] - Kim Tate

We have good news. Yeah.

[00:01:00.680] - Tamara Gruber

But as you guys know, we're planning a spring break trip coming up very quickly, and we've been keeping everything crossed that everything goes okay. But we saw just actually, I just saw very recently, I think it was on February 12 that France has lifted their testing requirement to get into the country. So it's just like one of these hurdles that I can check. I can just cross off like, okay, the day before, how am I going to get the test that I need? And is it going to come back in time depending on how things are there or they're going to shut now that things are better, they're closing some testing centers. What's the best way to get this test that they need? So it's just like one of those hurdles that I don't have to go through now. And it's just it's such a relief. And also because Hannah had COVID in early January, I was actually going to get her tested to see if she's still testing positive. Do I need to get the doctor's note and go through that whole thing? And so as restrictions are lifted, it's just so nice to have one less thing that you have to do as you're getting out the door, and then one less thing that could kind of screw up the road.

[00:02:11.860] - Tamara Gruber

Obviously, you could still get sick, but hopefully you would know that versus like, oh, no, you're actually asymptomatic. Not that we want to be traveling asymptomatically, but you know what I mean? So I'm just encouraged that there are a number of European countries that are lifting their testing requirements at the same time, though, I should say that is for people that are fully vaccinated and different countries have different rules about full vaccination. Like, for example, for France, you need to also be boosted if it's been more than seven months since your second shot or your only shot if you're like me when it was Johnson, Johnson. So you need to follow still those kind of guidelines and all of the rest. But at least on the testing front, it's one thing. So, yeah, so France lifted it. The UK has lifted that, Ireland has lifted it. Spain lifted it. And I've seen that both Portugal and Greece have lifted it for the EU. And so my matter of time before they lift it for the US as well. And part of it might be like the US still has the requirement that people need to test, including US citizens, on entry into the US.

[00:03:24.420] - Tamara Gruber

So it might be one of those things where it's like, well, if you lift it for us, we'll have it for you kind of thing. But yeah, at least I mean, right now we're still going to have to get tested in France to go into Italy. But at least we know that that's pretty easy to do. Like, there's tons of pharmacies around and it's cheap and readily available and fast turn around. So I'm not as worried about that. And then I actually just ordered some testing kits from EMED, which is what you and I used when we were in Portugal because it's the proctored self testing that is accepted for return to the US.

[00:04:00.540] - Kim Tate

And it's instant. Yeah, it's really good.

[00:04:02.170] - Tamara Gruber

Yeah.

[00:04:03.870] - Kim Tate

That horrible one day window that the US enacted, which I hope they're going to reedit that now that Omicron is calming down because that one day is a big ask.

[00:04:13.080] - Tamara Gruber

Yeah, it's definitely and I was worried about like, oh, if we're in Italy, I know I can get tested, but will the turnaround be in time? So I just felt like bringing these along is going to be the easiest scenario. We just do that in the room and we'll be all set. So positive news on my friend. And I know you've been paying attention to some other stuff going on, so you have some positive news, too.

[00:04:34.640] - Kim Tate

Yeah. Well, we're headed out on a cruise for spring break, and we're getting numerous emails that keep coming in because cruises are really volatile right now with the way they're changing. A lot of them went back into even a lockdown. They canceled a lot of cruises in January. And now I think things are loosening up, and so that's kind of opening up options. And so I think that for cruising, just know that cruising is back. Cruises in general have always been, as we talked about in that episode a while back, they're pretty obsessed with cleanliness and germs because of other things like norovirus that they've had issues with. So just know that cruising is back. And so if that's an option. The other thing that I like about cruising is because we're doing a Caribbean cruise and because you come in and out of a US Port, you are waived from a lot of those testing requirements that if you were just flying directly into a Caribbean Island. So there is some benefit to that. Just know that some of the Caribbean Islands also are editing what they're requiring. And I know that, for example, I believe it's the Bahamas and maybe even Aruba, if you're vaccinated, you no longer have to submit a PCR test.

[00:05:41.530] - Kim Tate

You can take a rapid test. Of course, it has to be a proven rapid test. You can't just take one of the Amazon ones and take a picture of it. It has to be like the EMED ones that you're talking about. But I think for some travelers, those are way easier than, like you said, making appointments and going in through a drive through or some kind of testing site. And then that stress over. Will I get the results in time, especially if for us out here, the Sundays really throw us off because they don't run the results on Sundays and do the testing. So if you need it, you kind of have to either wait for Monday or you have to go Saturday and hope that process works. So I just know that for us, it's kind of a big thing to keep an eye on. And I do think, like you that things are relaxing, and I think everybody's ready to get back to travel. So I feel like a lot of us traveled over the past year anyways, but it's becoming more accessible for people who maybe don't want the cost or the stress of testing.

[00:06:35.070] - Tamara Gruber

Yeah. I mean, I've talked to a couple of people recently. They were like, oh, I just paid $100 for a test, and then they dropped it the next day. The cost for a family to have to deal with that kind of testing is considerable. It's huge.

[00:06:51.000] - Kim Tate

Well, our in laws won't come visit us from Canada because they're a family of five and they didn't come last summer because even after the border opened, they can't pay for five test times $150 or whatever. It just was cost prohibitive.

[00:07:06.880] - Tamara Gruber

So, yeah, I like to be an optimist, and it's been hard for a couple of years. And I know things can change and all of that, but it is just nice to see positive news, positive things happening. And I'm excited. I'm excited for where all of our travels are going to take us this year.

[00:07:26.130] - Kim Tate

I definitely think that it's exciting and I think that it's people I mean, governments are seeing that the travel restrictions and the testing isn't necessarily catching it. It's still spreading like wildfire all throughout the country. I think that's a bigger thing. Like, I'm fully into watching things, but the fact that obviously Omicron moved through multiple countries, it really shows that we kind of all just need to get back to living and do our responsible parts.

[00:07:54.940] - Tamara Gruber

Yeah. Well, speaking of getting back to living, I think everyone has been thinking of the trips that they want to take. And so we've been trying to have some episodes that addressed some of that, like some of that inspirational dream travel and today we're going to talk to really a credit card expert, and she's going to help us figure out ways to earn our way to those dream trips using credit cards. So I'm very excited to kind of find some new strategies after talking to her today.

[00:08:26.090] - Kim Tate

Yeah, definitely. Jennifer is a true expert. So let's get talking to her.

[00:08:38.270] - Tamara Gruber

We are here this week with Jennifer Yellin. She's a travel and credit card expert, founder of travel site Deals We Like, and a freelance writer for The Points Guy and CNN Underscored. So, Jennifer, I feel a little bit odd to have such an expert here today, but welcome.

[00:08:52.970] - Jennifer Yellin

Thank you so much. Thanks for having me.

[00:08:55.340] - Tamara Gruber

Well, we get a lot of questions about credit cards and strategies. And there are always some of our favorite episodes, and people always have different advice. So it's really nice to talk to, like, people with different viewpoints and experience. But before we get into really talking about what credit cards families should be using to earn points, I was hoping you could inspire us a little bit with some of the trips or flights that you've been able to book using miles and points. Sure.

[00:09:21.790] - Jennifer Yellin

Absolutely. So this past two years, like many of you, probably has been a little bit of a pause in staying at home. But just more recently, my family was actually able to take our first trip since the Pandemic started to Aruba, and we were able to book that fully on points, utilize our JetBlue points. And with JetBlue, it's really cool that if the flight goes down in price, you can cancel now with your points and rebook it. So I was able to do that a few times and really get that price down really low. Booking with points, even during the Christmas time period, it was pretty awesome. And then we stayed at the Hyatt Regency there right on Palm Beach and used points as well. And my husband actually has global status, which is their top tier status. So we are able to apply a suite upgrade. And we're confirmed into a two bedroom suite. And my kids had their own bunkbed room, which I thought was so cool.

[00:10:11.020] - Kim Tate

That's amazing. That's definitely like a dream. Good job on that, because I know those suite rewards are kind of difficulties sometimes. I hear they are.

[00:10:19.280] - Jennifer Yellin

I mean, it wasn't available right away. I had a check online daily, maybe hourly leading up to it. And probably about two weeks before our trip.

[00:10:26.930] - Kim Tate

It opened up nice.

[00:10:28.700] - Jennifer Yellin

That was good.

[00:10:29.960] - Kim Tate

That definitely sounds good. I know Tamara was in Aruba, too, but I think those are the dream trips that everybody thinks about when they can do points on Airlines and hotels. So Unfortunately, I get overwhelmed at that aspect of, like, how to redeem. And so I have a whole bunch of points, but they're all just sitting in my account doing nothing for me. So I had a friend who's in the point space once say to me, what do you hate free money? Because you're not using your points. So I know that that's a good thing when you can use them.

[00:10:57.520] - Jennifer Yellin

Yeah. Family travel, specifically points kind of early because we always are booking during the popular Christmas break, spring break time frame. And that's when everyone books early. So right now I have a bunch of trips planned for December break. Clearly, I'm not taking them all, but booking them right when the war calendar opens up has allowed like a word availability to be booked and it's easier to come by.

[00:11:22.660] - Tamara Gruber

That's a good tip.

[00:11:23.840] - Jennifer Yellin

Yeah. As long as I can cancel them, I'm good. I probably have like four different trips.

[00:11:28.850] - Kim Tate

Yeah. It becomes you have to have a spreadsheet to manage it sometimes.

[00:11:33.110] - Kim Tate

Well, what do you think is some of the so let's start off by talking about what you think some of the criteria is for people to look for when they're choosing a credit card to start earning points because there are a lot of options and I know kind of what I'm thinking and what other people have said. So in your opinion, what should people look at?

[00:11:50.580] - Jennifer Yellin

I think it kind of depends. There's two types of credit cards out there in the points space. Forget about cash back, but there's those that allow you to easily redeem your points. Like capital One is the first one that comes to mind. You book your flight and you can kind of use your points to wipe away the charge.

[00:12:10.730] - Kim Tate

Like the eraser or something.

[00:12:12.510] - Jennifer Yellin

Exactly. Like at a very easy rate. You don't have to worry about award availability. Like you were saying that you don't want to deal with if the flight is available. The hotel is available on points. As long as you can book it with cash, you can use your points. Then there's one like the Chase Ultimate Rewards, which kind of has a few different programs, actually. But those are where you can redeem your points to various hotel and airline programs by transferring your points. But that takes kind of some motivation, I guess it takes some effort and work and you need to kind of learn the programs, but then you could actually get something of better value. So it kind of depends on what your personality is.

[00:12:53.540] - Kim Tate

Right. And then, of course, there's also, like specific airline credit cards, like Delta or I have an Alaska card just because it gives me some perks. But it's funny because on Alaska I still book with my Amex because Alaska pays three times, but Amex pays five times. So it's kind of funny how you have to think about that stuff.

[00:13:10.330] - Jennifer Yellin

Absolutely. Other things I look for is I try to keep my annual fees low because I have a decent amount of credit cards. But are there perks that come with a credit card, like a free night certificate? So like Hyatt offers a free night certificate. It's capped at a category four, but I always find that that helps pay for the annual fee and actually allows me to come out ahead. So are there any of those other bonuses or perks that you'll utilize?

[00:13:35.210] - Tamara Gruber

I used to have a Marriott card, and I felt like sometimes I ended up not always using that voucher for the free night because then you would look at it and when I wanted to book, it was only like $100, $150. And you're like, oh, I'm going to save it for something else. And then it never ended up happening with all these things you definitely have to stay on top of make sure you're using the perks and the bonuses that you get. Right.

[00:13:58.270] - Jennifer Yellin

Definitely. Because if not, you could be spending a good amount on just fees where you're really not worth it.

[00:14:04.160] - Tamara Gruber

I mean, I totally admit that we've had the Capital One venture card for years and years, and the Holy Racer thing is just super simple.

[00:14:12.670] - Kim Tate

Yeah. That's what Paul likes. He loves that one. Just for the ease of it.

[00:14:16.910] - Jennifer Yellin

Yeah. And we've also been using a higher credit card. And even though we're not getting the best value every time you make a purchase, it helps us earn global status, which, as I've mentioned before, is like their top tier status. So by earning that status, because every time you spend, I think $5,000 on the card, you get two nights towards status. So that, combined with staying at hotels, allows us to use that and then kind of get these awesome perks. So you kind of got to look at the pros and cons of every car and see what works best for you. Whenever anyone asks me, my simple answer sometimes is it depends.

[00:14:51.780] - Tamara Gruber

Yeah. We talked to who is Ed Pizza, right. A few months ago, Kim, and he was really recommending Hyatt as a great program for families. So I'm glad that you brought that one up and like ways to kind of maximize that because their point redemption is certainly much more generous than, as I mentioned, the Marriott card.

[00:15:11.380] - Jennifer Yellin

Yeah. Ed and I are big Hyatt people for sure.

[00:15:15.100] - Tamara Gruber

Well, it sounds like you gave a couple of good starter cards for someone that's interested in travel but maybe doesn't have any particular destination in mind, or they just want to be able to use it, like travel generally. I know some people are like, really into Southwest, do everything Southwest. We had somebody on that talked about that in the past. But are there any other kind of starter cards that you would recommend for someone that doesn't want to be loyal to a particular brand or a particular airline?

[00:15:43.570] - Jennifer Yellin

Sure. Yes. If you don't want to be loyal and you kind of want to be agnostic and have to diversify your portfolio, I guess the Chase Sapphire Preferred is a great card. I wouldn't say the sign up bonus is as high as it has been over the past year. So if you're not in a rush, you might want to hold off. But that is a good program where it's simple. They have really good transfer partners such as Hyatt, United, JetBlue, and then once you get more into it, you can explore some of the international airline partners as well. But it's simple. Everything transfers as one to one, and you can kind of figure out what your needs are and then transfer to the program. Or you can book through their travel portal. I think it's run by Expedia. It's the exact same process as booking as any other Expedia hotel you would or Air flight. And you can utilize your points that way, too. It's at a fixed value, so they offer a good amount of opportunities.

[00:16:37.550] - Tamara Gruber

And are they one that has a really broad portfolio of Airlines? I remember I used to do that a lot with Amex, and then they had gotten rid of a lot of their partners and we kind of dropped Amex for a while. Some still have limited partnerships with the one to one transfers.

[00:16:55.310] - Jennifer Yellin

Yeah, I think they have a broad number of transfer partners. It's on the airline front, off the top of my head. United JetBlue, British Airways, which a lot of people will book domestically. You can book their British Airways points using on American Airlines, so they're a partner. So it's really easy to travel domestically even with an international airline. And then there are some other international carriers, too, in Southwest actually is one of them as well. So I think they have a good amount. There are definitely ones that are better than others just because of not all points are pretty equal. So if you transfer one to one to Hyatt versus one to one to Marriott, Hyatt points are 20,000 Hyatt points is probably equivalent to 60,000 Marriott points. So it's slightly different when you're transferring in a one to one rate. You want to get the best value. I'd say.

[00:17:45.920] - Kim Tate

Yeah. I think that it's good to mention that you do have to be mindful of the transfer partners because that is where you can get into. There's a whole it's kind of like couponing, right? Where the people who are like those extreme couponers, they knew everything and they could stack stuff. And I think that people who really get into this are good at stacking stuff because it's like, oh, I know for a fact that British Airways has really high taxes. So maybe you want to fly Air Lingus into Ireland and then get to there's little things like that that you learn over time. But it is nice to have the multiple transfer partners knowing that you can kind of optimize the way the credit cards work for you. Do you have any tips? Because I know this is a big thing in the point space about deciding if you do decide to have multiple cards, how do you decide what expenses to put on each card?

[00:18:29.730] - Jennifer Yellin

So I have many cards, probably too many, but I kind of look at category bonuses. So some credit cards will give increased payout for gas, some will for restaurants, some for travel, supermarkets, your common purchases. And so I kind of lay it out and I actually have what's it called tape with Sharpie written on which one to use for various types of purchases. And that has helped, but that can definitely get overwhelming. I'd say if you don't want to be overwhelmed, you're probably better off with a credit card like the Capital Adventure that just offers you two points for every dollar you spent. It doesn't matter what you're purchasing. If you're buying a toy for your child, purchasing travel, going to grocery store, anything, it's the same return. So it really depends on maybe your personality and how much you want to spend on this. But if you're willing to put in the effort, you can definitely maximize every single purchase you make. But it will require a few different credit cards.

[00:19:35.410] - Tamara Gruber

I like that tip, though, of like putting a little note on them in some way because I have a terrible memory when it comes to numbers. And so I could see myself having a spreadsheet somewhere that says use this one for gas and this one for that. But until it becomes like routine and a habit, I would be like which 01:00 a.m. I supposed to use again. So like a little tip, right?

[00:19:56.480] - Kim Tate

So many people in the point space on the groups, a new quarter comes around and they change out and they have those label makers like the Dymo label makers, and they put them on their cards, which card to use? And they do it for their spouses too. That maybe aren't into it as much because sure enough, I think of that. I'm like, which one do I want to use for dining? What do I want to pay here?

[00:20:24.450] - Tamara Gruber

I'm thinking like when you use Apple Pay or you do online and your card saved, you can name them. Usually just name it like Amex or Visa. You could name it like grocery store, dining, gas.

[00:20:36.650] - Kim Tate

All the gas probably isn't needed online.

[00:20:39.090] - Tamara Gruber

So that kind of covers some of the general travel. I know some people have some dream trips in mind. Like say, okay, I want to go to the Maldives or I want to go to Tokyo. Like what is a good strategy to get me to a particular destination? Is that better to then look at a specific card for the airline? That might be best for that? What would your approach to that kind of scenario be?

[00:21:05.080] - Kim Tate

Absolutely.

[00:21:05.600] - Jennifer Yellin

Whenever I give anyone advice, I always actually find it's easier for me to help them when they have a specific trip in mind, because then you can have a strategy for that particular destination. So I know it was a few years back, but a friend of mine wanted to go on our honeymoon to the Maldives. Like you had mentioned, it's definitely a quite extensive adventure. So this is a prime opportunity to use your points and miles. And I said, well, the Hyatt actually has a great property there get the highest credit card. I can't remember what the actual bonus was at the time, but right off the bat, it was either two or three nights free at the Maldives. This was many years ago when before the point rates went up a little bit. But that was probably a $3,000 in savings. So I think if you know exactly where you want to stay, let's say it's the Hyatt, then look to see what the Hyatt credit card is offering at the time. Look to see what maybe the Chase Sapphire Preferred is offering at the time, since you can transfer the Hyatt and see which one is going to give you a better welcome offer for that particular destination in mind.

[00:22:07.650] - Kim Tate

Yeah, I know we were planning a trip to Tokyo, and Japan Airlines is a partner with Alaska, and Alaska is my airline of choice here in Seattle. And so that was easy for me because I was kind of banking those miles and I got the Alaska card because my status gives me free bags, but I was able to get free bags for my kids as well. And all that. And those points really helped in the way get us our Tokyo flights that we didn't get to use, but still there.

[00:22:32.320] - Tamara Gruber

You got them?

[00:22:33.530] - Kim Tate

Yeah.

[00:22:33.910] - Jennifer Yellin

I did something similar last year about probably eleven months ago. I knew I wanted to go to Hawaii over this past December break. We didn't go, therefore, we went to Aruba. But I purposely just got the Alaska credit card purely for them, based in Boston. Boston. I don't think I've actually ever flown Alaskan Airlines in my life, actually. But there was a points available I saw. So I immediately applied for the credit card and both my name and my husband's name. And actually I applied for the personal credit card and the business credit card in both of us. And I knew that immediately would give us both a one way flight there. And I already had American Airlines booked on the way home with points. So I applied for that card for that one specific destination. I now have all these Alaska airline miles, and I know that I'll just use them at another point of time to hopefully go to Hawaii again.

[00:23:21.250] - Kim Tate

Yeah.

[00:23:22.350] - Jennifer Yellin

So I did that myself, too.

[00:23:24.870] - Kim Tate

So let's talk about we talked about booking flights and using points because this is something that I've struggled with a lot. When you are for a family, when you are wanting to use points, do you think it's easier to just always search for four tickets? Say you're a family four. Tamara is a family, three, whatever you are, your whole family search for tickets with those points? Or do you think it's better to be willing to pay for some and get tickets for some? Because I know that I've struggled with that, especially because as a status person, I almost want to buy my ticket, which is what I did for our spring break. I bought my ticket and I use points on my family's three tickets because now I'll earn miles on that trip and they don't care about anything else. So do you have any tips about that for using points with a family?

[00:24:10.340] - Jennifer Yellin

Yeah, we actually do the same. We fly JetBlue a lot now. And my husband had status and actually they extended his status. So he still has his status, which actually isn't worth as much anymore. But we'll pay for his ticket and then use the points to purchase tickets for myself and my two kids. And then Jeff, who allows you if you call them and the tickets are booked within a few minutes of one another, they'll kind of link them kind of for you. So that's a strategy we use with JetBlue and Southwest. There's no capacity control. So as long as there's a paid ticket available, you can go ahead and use your points. It doesn't matter, unlike some other Airlines. But with other Airlines, sometimes I do recommend just looking at one ticket at a time, because if there's one or two tickets, you could do that. The only problem is when you're booking with multiple itineraries. And sometimes if there's schedule changes, the Airlines aren't as helpful, I guess is the right term to keep families together, necessarily if they are booked on separate itineraries. So that's just one thing to keep in mind if you're booking under multiple reservations.

[00:25:15.090] - Tamara Gruber

Yeah, we've actually had that happen to us a number of times. We used to travel on points much more often and we were separated. And it's one of those things that especially when you book far out in advance, they tend to reshuffle flights fairly often and equipment, and so you can easily get moved around. And it's something I'm sensitive to because I have a child who is now older, but when she was younger was also a nervous liar. So there's, like, no way I would have wanted her separated from me. I think it's a good tip to say call, tell them to link the PNR numbers on the itinerary, but it's definitely not foolproof. So if it's something that you're concerned about, definitely something to keep in mind.

[00:25:59.070] - Jennifer Yellin

Right. And my thought is if I'm willing to pay for two or three of the passengers and I'm probably willing to pay for all of them and then use the points at another time, I personally like to book with everything either paid or points just to keep everything clean.

[00:26:15.750] - Kim Tate

And I know that when you do talk about just for people who are maybe a little more intermediate or advanced well, if they're advanced they already know this. But I know that a lot of people use Expert Flyer, which is a website. You can actually pay a yearly membership fee. I think it's like $49 a year. $99 a year. I don't remember what it is. And they somehow have some magic API that looks for special award availability that's coded a certain way. And so if you are trying to play a game, I know some people set up like alerts so that if they're watching a specific flight or a specific destination, they can kind of if an award ticket becomes available, they can hurry and log in and book it.

[00:26:57.950] - Jennifer Yellin

Yeah, absolutely. That is one good technique. And another thing I've kind of found helpful at times is using an award booking service. I know that seems silly from someone who kind of knows as well, but specifically with international Airlines, it can be beyond overwhelming. And they have all the tools and they have the same API's. And I don't know what they do in the background, but sometimes they're able to find ways that you didn't think of to go ahead and book an award internationally using partner programs. And it can actually save you points. So if you have points on one Airlines, but then also points in a flexible program like the Chase Sapphire Preferred Card, which awards you ultimate reward points, you actually could potentially transfer your points to a program and then book your itinerary for less points than booking with another program. So there's so many different things to know, I guess, when it comes to that. But there are services out there.

[00:27:53.490] - Kim Tate

Yeah. Do you have any? Because I know a friend that I kind of met once that's in the space. And at one point when we were looking at Japan and I was trying to decide if I was going to do it myself and he charged like 150 or something to do it for you. But do you know what those typically charge or what? Is there a top one or two that you know by name that you could mention? Sure.

[00:28:15.120] - Jennifer Yellin

Yeah. That price point sounds about right. But then there are other services that have kind of come out over the past few years. So one is Point me, it used to be called Juicy Miles, and instead of them actually booking it for you, you can kind of like Expert Flyer in a sense, somewhat. You put in your itinerary and it kind of lists out all these different options for you. So it's all system process. There's no one physically doing it for you. And that's a much less expensive option. I think that you can charge a monthly fee or maybe just you can do it a one time or even a seven day trial period. I think so. Those are some good options, too, because it's less expensive. But it will give you all these international Airlines that you do in point programs that you probably didn't even know existed. And how to book. The only problem is some of them are a little bit more challenging to actually transfer to and book. But by quick Google searching, there's, like everything out there that you can figure out on how to transfer points and everything. It's time consuming.

[00:29:16.410] - Jennifer Yellin

It's really time consuming. And sometimes, I don't know, it might be easier.

[00:29:19.740] - Kim Tate

That's what I'm saying at this point. I would pay someone $250 to do it for me because I do know how time consuming.

[00:29:26.970] - Jennifer Yellin

Yeah. And usually you don't pay unless it works. Right.

[00:29:30.550] - Kim Tate

Unless they get it for you.

[00:29:31.880] - Jennifer Yellin

Right. If you're not happy with it, no harm.

[00:29:34.500] - Kim Tate

Yeah, that's good tip. And I think also just a heads up for some people realize that a lot of these, like, I know Amex and Ultimate Rewards, a lot of their transfer partners take 24 to 72 hours for the points to kick into your account, which can be a big issue, especially if you're like, oh, this airfare just became available. Now I have to transfer the points, but then you're waiting there two, three days. I'm hoping that they hit your account so you can buy that award ticket. It's very stressful. I actually did that for Alaska to get our Japan tickets. I needed like 50,000 more and I had to transfer some. And I was like, oh, my gosh, please get in my account before these disappear.

[00:30:09.750] - Tamara Gruber

That's a really good point.

[00:30:11.620] - Jennifer Yellin

Yeah. If you like Google also, I don't know why has it, but if you Google, like, time to transfer points from one program to another, there's so many experts out there, points people that have kind of taken all the data and put it all together. So some of them are instant. Some of them could even take seven days. But you could probably get a good inkling based on what these other people have put together.

[00:30:35.190] - Tamara Gruber

Yeah. Well, it's one of these spaces where there are so many experts, but trying to sort through it all on your own is definitely confusing. That idea of being able to hire someone to help you. And thinking about that, I'm such an advanced planner, you kind of want to be like, oh, well, I'm probably going to use this. I'll just switch the points over now, but then you can't switch them back.

[00:30:58.030] - Jennifer Yellin

That is a good tip. Once you transfer points out of, like, Capital One or City or American Express Chase, I think those are the three main ones. They're in that program of choice. They are not going back in. So once flexible, points are no longer flexible.

[00:31:12.770] - Tamara Gruber

Yeah. One way.

[00:31:14.020] - Jennifer Yellin

Yes.

[00:31:15.690] - Tamara Gruber

Well, we talked a little bit about some ways that you can maximize kind of your earning potential through these. But maybe we can just touch on that a little bit more deeply because I feel like it gets challenging for families that don't have someone that's like a real road warrior that's traveling a lot to kind of build up points simply from travel. So obviously you need to find other ways to earn those points. So maybe you can just touch on a few of those strategies.

[00:31:41.670] - Jennifer Yellin

Absolutely. So one major way is to sign up for every single shopping portal. Ebates is one that's always advertised and that will give you cash back, although you can now have those points go into American Express. But similar to ebay, you can sign up and receive points to American Airlines or United Alaska. All the Airlines have their own shopping portal. So all you have to do is Google Alaska Airlines shopping portal and it'll bring you up. And a lot of them even have those widgets on your computer where every time you go to a site, if you were to Gap.com, it'll pop up and say kind of give you a reminder, remember to shop through the Alaska Port. I don't know if that.

[00:32:22.620] - Kim Tate

Yeah, the extensions. Like the Chrome extensions. Yeah, exactly. And I think Ebates, just so everyone knows it's called Racketon. Now, if you're confused about that. No, it's okay. You're good. I still think of them as ebay. So I wanted everyone to yes.

[00:32:35.800] - Jennifer Yellin

Ebay was definitely a softer name. So every time you make a purchase online, there's no reason not to earn points unless it's more of a boutique store. But with your mainstream stores, even if you're only earning one point per dollar spent that's one point more than you would have earned otherwise. And sometimes if you sign up for their emails, if you spend $200, earn $1,000 bonus. They have these types of bonuses all the time, especially around the holidays, Black Friday, even randomly, the long holiday weekends, like Memorial Day, Labor Day, big shopping weekends, and just sometimes out of the blue. So there's ways to really accrue a lot of miles from home.

[00:33:17.530] - Kim Tate

Absolutely.

[00:33:18.420] - Jennifer Yellin

Yeah.

[00:33:18.790] - Kim Tate

That's one of my favorite tips. I do that a lot and I really like it. And there's these websites now, the one I use the most is like Cashback Holic. And they'll compare. So if you're going to you're like, okay, I'm about ready to buy. I'm going to book this Marriott stay. You can type in Marriott and it'll show you like who, because I belong to Racketon and Top Cashback and I can compare those two. I try not to get into too many of them, so I mainly use those two. But I'm like, oh, Top Cashback is 6%. Racketon is only four. I'm going to go to Top Cashback so you can get really nerdy and kind of compare them also.

[00:33:49.190] - Jennifer Yellin

Oh, totally. Absolutely. And EV Rewards is another one that will also compare for you is great.

[00:33:57.090] - Tamara Gruber

I totally admit that. I completely suck at this. I don't use any of these. And every time you read about it, you're like, oh yeah, I should do that. And I just get excited if I actually learn how to use one of the bonuses on my credit card, like get $50, $50.

[00:34:16.510] - Jennifer Yellin

Yeah. And another thing you want to do, I mean, this is separate from the shopping portal is I remember I think it was the last time I received an email from Barclaycard. And they are the bank with JetBlue. And it was like ridiculous offer spent $2,000 on your card over three months and earn I think it was 40,000 points. It was a targeted offer. I got it. My husband didn't. I was like, all right, moving all my spent to my JetBlue card for the next few months. Right. And they're just paying attention just helps you earn these increased offers. So there's definitely ways from home without flying to earn points and miles.

[00:34:55.990] - Kim Tate

I've definitely been getting better about when I'm about ready to either go on a trip or go shopping with my girls or something along those lines. I log into my Chase and my Amex accounts online and I look because they have an offer section because you have to add them to your card.

[00:35:09.740] - Jennifer Yellin

Yes.

[00:35:10.010] - Kim Tate

And I don't think people always realize that. So if it's like, oh, Levi's is having a deal, I add it to my card because maybe they're going to want Levi's jeans while we're on back to school shopping or, oh, guess what? Hilton is doing this special. If you spend if you stay two nights, you get whatever the case may be. And I don't think people do that enough. But it's a good way to really I think if you want to get serious about it, you should log in often to the offers page because they reset every month.

[00:35:34.850]

Yeah.

[00:35:35.740] - Jennifer Yellin

Every day you're going to laugh. But American Express offers used to update every day at three in the morning. And I'm not joking. And so when my kids were small and I was up in the middle of the night non stop, I was like, so excited. And that was part of my daily routine. Some people have their morning coffee. I would look at my American Express offers. I'm not even kidding. That's awesome. Daily. But I will say it used to be you could add them to every single American Express credit card you have. I can't remember when, but a few years ago, it's now just one per account. So it's not as generous as it used to be. But I used to check them every single morning. And I'd saved thousands of dollars this way because it's not earning points. Well, actually, there are offers that you can earn points, but some of them are cashback. So now there's either cash back or increase point offers. So it depends on the offer and the type of card you have, because some cards might have it somewhere, but they're really great way to earn points or offset your purchases.

[00:36:33.850] - Kim Tate

And like you said, so many are targeted. Like Tamara got this offer for a Marriott offer at one point on her Amex and mine. I didn't have it and I'm convinced it's because I had the Amex Marriott card.

[00:36:42.870] - Tamara Gruber

I don't know.

[00:36:44.830] - Jennifer Yellin

You'll never know. And sometimes you can even I remember I can't remember the exact offer, but it was like grocery stores and I spend $500 getting $100 offer, something like that. And I wasn't going to make $500 purchase in once because sometimes it's on a single purchase. So I just bought a $500 gift card there and then just use the gift card over the course of my shopping fees. So there are ways to kind of I don't know if scheme the system is the right term, but play the game.

[00:37:13.460] - Tamara Gruber

Yeah. I mean, I do what you do, Kim, is when I'm shopping online, I'm like, wait, that might have an offer. Let me look. But the other thing with the gift cards is just simply like gifts, right. We give gifts and I buy gift cards for people all the time. And it's just like if it's something that you're spending anyway, just find a way to use to earn points on it, right?

[00:37:34.430] - Jennifer Yellin

Absolutely. Or be the one to pay the bill at the restaurant and have everyone to Mo you buy the class gifts or anything like that. Like everyone wonders why I'm always a class mom. It's to accrue all the money and then I can put all the purchases on her credit card.

[00:37:49.320] - Tamara Gruber

Love it.

[00:37:49.910] - Jennifer Yellin

Little things like that.

[00:37:51.290] - Kim Tate

Well, I know another big way to maximize points is with sign up bonuses. So could you give any final tips for people that are thinking of getting a new card, anything they should know about sign up bonuses or things to watch for, and then wrap it up with any final tips that you think people need to know about credit card points?

[00:38:07.580] - Jennifer Yellin

Absolutely. So one thing you want to make sure of is when you sign up for a credit card, make sure it doesn't have to be the best offer because you might be waiting around for a year for the best offer. But make sure it's a really good offer. I know we were speaking before and you said you apply for an offer that was like half of what it typically is. So when you see an offer, make sure it's a good value and it's going to provide you with enough points that you'll be happy with that. Even if a better offer comes along in a month or two. Pay attention to best offer. Some banks, actually, if you apply within a few weeks or maybe even a month, if you call them up and say this better offer just came out, will you match it? They may or may not match it for you, but it's always worth a try. You never know. Some banks have kind of different fools and they change every so often also. But if you're looking for a credit card right now and specifically for family travel. The Southwest Credit Card actually has one of the best offers where you'll earn the Southwest Companion Pass.

[00:39:05.500] - Jennifer Yellin

I don't know if you guys have discussed the Southwest Companion Pass much on the podcast, but it's definitely one of my favorite travel features. And it allows someone to fly with you for free in a limited number of times. I've been a passholder for the past 13 or 14 years at this point. And it's like the most amazing thing ever. So that's one of my favorite offers right now. If you live in a Southwest hub, if you don't live near Southwest, then it's not worth it.

[00:39:33.520] - Kim Tate

And I'll chime in and just say that we did cover quite extensively about that Southwest offer and stuff with Lynne and that's episode 181. If anybody wants to go back and listen to that awesome.

[00:39:43.960] - Jennifer Yellin

Yes, she's an expert and everything's Southwest as well. So that's one thing right now, credit card offers are changing all the time. I think Marriott just came out with something last week, United as well. So it's like hard to even keep track. But sometimes even just like Googling best credit card offers from the experts. You'll get pages, but make sure it's really the best and not just them pushing you on the best when it might not be.

[00:40:11.950] - Kim Tate

Yeah, I definitely think that I've done that where especially if I have a big purchase, like, oh, I'm buying a new camera or we're about ready to take a big trip and I'm going to be putting a lot of charges. I kind of go and I say, okay, best credit card offers for March 2022 or whatever. And of course, it's the points guy, nerd wallet, upgraded points.

[00:40:31.310] - Tamara Gruber

Like all those guys.

[00:40:32.280] - Kim Tate

And so it's kind of good to just read through those and kind of see which ones are popping up. And they definitely, you'll know, because it's not just an offer. Like they'll write a whole article about this amazing offer is one of the best we've seen lately, that sort of stuff.

[00:40:45.640] - Jennifer Yellin

Right? Absolutely. And also just another tip is make sure you can meet the minimum spend requirements. Some of the credit cards are 1000 $2,000 in three months, six months. But the Capital One Venture X card right now, for example, is like, I think it's $10,000. So that might not be obtainable for most families.

[00:41:04.130] - Kim Tate

Exactly.

[00:41:04.910] - Jennifer Yellin

So it just makes it something you can do.

[00:41:07.420] - Kim Tate

Those business cards can sometimes have really high spends. Because I've looked at doing a business card, sometimes I'm just like, there's just no way I can spend that right now.

[00:41:15.240] - Jennifer Yellin

Right.

[00:41:16.170] - Kim Tate

Although I know that's a whole other expert level of people who do credit or gift card buy and resell to do that. So that's a whole other level.

[00:41:24.990] - Jennifer Yellin

Yes, it is. If you're interested in that, go to Greg at the Frequent Mile or he is crazy when it comes to this. But awesome attitude.

[00:41:32.530] - Tamara Gruber

One of the things that I'm thinking about. As I'm listening to you guys, I'm thinking about what I have an upcoming trip where I'm going to be spending a lot of money and some of that's already on one of my credit cards. But maybe I should look into what bonuses are up right now. But it makes me think about when you want to churn your cards. And we obviously talked about signing up, you and your husband for a card and signing up for this card in that card. And it's like, at what point are too many cards? Like too many? Like, how long do you keep it before you get rid of it? Are there considerations to think about in terms of your credit or just eligibility for future cards? That just to make people aware of?

[00:42:10.930]

Sure.

[00:42:11.520] - Jennifer Yellin

So as long as you're responsible with your credit cards, for the most part, credit cards are not going to hurt your credit. I mean, you'll see people who have 50 credit cards and they still have these awesome 800 credit scores. If you're applying for a mortgage to get a house in a few weeks, don't apply for a credit card right now. Right. So there's definitely or even any loan I wouldn't recommend applying for a credit card. Wait. And then go and get it. In regards to when you should cancel, if you're not getting value out of your credit card, cancel it's not going to hurt you or downgrade to a no annual fee. For example, if you have the Chase Sapphire preferred card and you find that the $95 annual fee is not worth it anymore, first of all, call and see if they'll do something for you. A lot of times they might say, okay, if you spend $1,000, we'll give you a $95 credit. You just never hurt. I know. Last year I think I ended up getting about $500 back from American Express amongst a lot of my credit cards. I know COVID played a hand in that.

[00:43:16.470] - Jennifer Yellin

But always call and see. And if not, then see if there's a car that you can downgrade it to, and then there won't be a Ding on your credit report. I mean, it also depends on what your current credit score is. And sometimes you might get a Ding, but it will go back up in a few months. So there's a few factors depending on.

[00:43:34.050] - Kim Tate

Yeah, it's like ten point Ding, and it does pop right back up because we've had that opening up a credit card kind of opens up.

[00:43:40.310] - Jennifer Yellin

Gives you more credit, which creditors like, too.

[00:43:43.520] - Kim Tate

So opening up credit cards is not a bad thing unless you're applying for a big mortgage. They don't like to see your capital, your accessibility too high, right?

[00:43:53.510] - Jennifer Yellin

Absolutely. And then Chase also has Chase and American Express have different rules in place. So I'm not sure if you've discussed Chase is 524.

[00:44:01.800] - Kim Tate

Yeah, we talked about that.

[00:44:03.530] - Jennifer Yellin

So you've applied for five or more cards. Usually they're personal cards, but sometimes they throw business cards into it, too. Chase will automatically not approve you for another credit card. I've seen some reports that that might be changing, actually. So we'll kind of see what happens over the next few months. But that's one thing to keep in mind. It's five or more cards in 24 months, I think I said. And then American Express also doesn't allow you to get the welcome offer for I believe it's like once in a lifetime, but once it falls off your credit report, they might not know. So might be like seven years. So those are things to kind of keep in mind. That's why you want to apply when the offer is the best, because if it's not and you're going to be losing out on points if a new offer comes around and then you're not able to get it and you're no longer a card holder.

[00:44:48.390] - Tamara Gruber

I have one more question for you, because now I'm just going to use you as my personal source for information if you want to get an additional card for someone in your family. So, for example, I have a 17 year old that we've been waiting till she turns 18 to get a credit card for her. And we've been debating like, do you get her own credit card or do we put her on one of ours? Do we get another one of the capital one cards? Any tips for if you're adding somebody in your family, maybe a first card? Is there any advantage, like kind of getting points from them versus kind of setting them up on their own?

[00:45:24.660]

Sure.

[00:45:25.100] - Jennifer Yellin

So just remember, if someone is an authorized user, you're responsible for all of their credit card habits. So if the credit card bill is not paid or if anything happens, it kind of can hit you. So just something to keep in mind with teenagers. But I actually personally don't know a lot about the high school age and what credit cards you can and cannot apply for for that age. I'm not there yet, fortunately. But setting someone up as an authorized user, I think some credit cards you can maybe do as early as 13, you can add them on. And that actually helps them as well build their own credit score. So it's always a great thing to get add on authorized users if they're not eligible to get their own credit card. And then when they are to get them, there are various student credit cards, and a lot of times those comes with $300 spend limits or very low thresholds that you might want for your child. But yeah, definitely getting them set up will only help their credit score, which can then ultimately help them in their 20s to apply for a credit card.

[00:46:26.470] - Jennifer Yellin

That will be useful. But there are a lot of student credit cards out there that do give you points and miles.

[00:46:32.810] - Kim Tate

They do come with a really high annual fee or not annual fee interest rate. Normally, that's the only bad thing. We actually added my husband and my daughter, both as authorized users with my Amex Platinum Tamara, because of the lounge access. So now, especially if they're changing it, we're going to get Mia. And that'll be my maxed on three, because with Amex Platinum, you get three authorized users for $175 total. So you pay the $175 and then they get all the lounge benefits as well. Are they changing the lounge that you can no longer guests unless you spend like $75,000 starting in January of 2023? I think you don't get anywhere. Is that right, Jennifer? I think that's right.

[00:47:15.840] - Jennifer Yellin

That I don't know.

[00:47:17.100] - Kim Tate

Okay.

[00:47:17.820] - Jennifer Yellin

Sorry.

[00:47:18.780] - Kim Tate

No, you're fine.

[00:47:19.580] - Jennifer Yellin

Yeah, but I will say that the expensive credit cards a lot of times you have to pay to add an authorized user, but no annual fee or low annual fee credit cards. Usually you can add a few authorized users for no fee.

[00:47:33.380] - Kim Tate

Great. Well, one of our questions that we ask all of our guests is what do you wear when you travel? So do you have any favorite brands that you want to tell us about when you travel?

[00:47:41.020] - Jennifer Yellin

Sure. I travel as comfortably as possibly. And I also wear my everyday clothes, which consists of black as leader pants, which is side pockets, like those leggings. And then you can put your cell phone or any cars. Side pockets are a necessity. Once I found them, like two years ago, I can never go back. And sneakers or flip flops, depending on the weather. Nothing fun and exciting.

[00:48:05.480] - Tamara Gruber

Well, you're brave wearing flip flops on the plane.

[00:48:07.370] - Kim Tate

My feet are always freezing.

[00:48:09.230] - Jennifer Yellin

Yeah, that is a good point. It depends on the length of it's. Just like an hour flight that's going to be different. But you're right. I used to travel for work every single week for many years. And I would always be traveling like those high heels and hated every second of it. I would get off the plane and go straight to the client site for the week. And now I just want to be comfortable.

[00:48:28.770] - Kim Tate

And everyone has those little packable ballet flats that you can just pop in and out. Yeah.

[00:48:34.610] - Tamara Gruber

I'm happy, though. So work travel days are behind me, too. And just like work dress in general has changed.

[00:48:41.210] - Jennifer Yellin

Oh, yeah. I got rid of all of my stuff, never going back.

[00:48:44.640] - Kim Tate

Good.

[00:48:45.030] - Tamara Gruber

Well, can you remind our listeners where they can find you online or learn more about points?

[00:48:51.120] - Kim Tate

Absolutely.

[00:48:51.940] - Jennifer Yellin

So you can find me at my blog Deals We Like. You can also find me on Twitter or Facebook. Everything is at Deals We Like. And then also I'm a freelance contributor at the Point Sky and CNN Underscore. So I have some great articles there as well. That where you can learn more about credit cards, family travel, anything in the points and miles world.

[00:49:10.850] - Tamara Gruber

Thank you so much for sharing all your knowledge with us. It's always really great when we can get an expert on and just kind of brainstorm some ideas. Hopefully people will have something new that they can try to get them a little bit closer to their next kind of dream trip.

[00:49:25.130] - Kim Tate

Thanks for having me. It was great chatting with you.

[00:49:27.320] - Announcer

Thanks.

[00:49:27.630] - Tamara Gruber

You too.

[00:49:31.850] - Kim Tate

Well, as always, thanks for joining us for another week here and I have a little request. Tamara, I was looking at our podcast page the other day and I noticed that we were almost at 100 reviews. We are really close so I'm going to do a little bag from all of our lovely listeners and ask you guys if you're willing if you love our show, if you would leave us a five star review on your favorite podcast app, the one I looked on was Apple podcast. But wherever you're at or listen to us, if you'd leave us a positive review, we'd love it. We love hearing from you guys and I'd love to see that switch to 100 reviews.

[00:50:05.780] - Tamara Gruber

That would be great. I know we've been at this for almost six years and actually by the time it comes out it will be six years and we're just really bad about asking for reviews. We definitely appreciate it. I know some podcasts every day it's like the first thing that you hear is like leave us a review but we would appreciate it. We'll give you shout outs online. We'll read them especially if they're nice, but even if they're not nice, we will read them mindful of it but otherwise stay tuned because next episode we're going to be talking about sustainable travel and I think that is also on a lot of people's minds as we're getting back out there and how to be responsible and thinking about things in a more sustainable way. So join us next time talk to you again soon. Bye.