Convergence.fm

Welcome to the Convergence podcast! I'm Ashok Sivanand and I've created the Convergence podcast to help you build the most engaged product teams who can ship the most successful products. My passion for products and timing stems from a combination of my working in Japanese manufacturing, building IoT software products for lean manufacturers, and working at industry powerhouses in product like Pivotal Labs. This passion led to founding Integral in 2017, a product engineering consultancy that enables our clients to harness technology to develop better products, grow their revenue streams, and enable new business models. We've had the pleasure to collaborate with brands like Ford, Honda, Rocket Mortgage, Airstream, and Bosch to enable their teams and build some amazing products in artificial intelligence, cloud, mobile, and web. On the Convergence podcast, I'll be speaking with industry leaders, as well as sharing insights from my team on deconstructing the best practices, principles, and philosophies that lead to building the best product teams. If you're a chief product officer, a chief technology officer, or a VP of engineering, or you're growing towards one of those roles, I highly recommend you subscribe to the Convergence Podcast and get some of the insights that will help you lead your product teams and enable them to consistently ideate, validate and ship products that your customers love. Products that will help you grow your business. Thanks a lot for listening.

Best of Convergence: Building Customer-Centric Teams: Josh Seiden on OKRs and Agile 08/21/2025

Best of Convergence: Building Customer-Centric Teams: Josh Seiden on OKRs and Agile In this episode, Ashok sits down with , to explore key insights from Josh's latest book, "Who Does What by How Much." The conversation centers around using OKRs (Objectives and Key Results) to align teams and improve organizational outcomes. They examine the challenges many teams face when implementing frameworks like OKRs or Agile and emphasize the importance of understanding the "why" behind these systems. Josh also reflects on his early work, such as developing the Kensington Turbo Mouse and collaborating with Alan Cooper, widely known as the "Father of Visual Basic." Unlock the full potential of your product team with Integral's player coaches, experts in lean, human-centered design. Visit integral.io/convergence for a free Product Success Lab workshop to gain clarity and confidence in tackling any product design or engineering challenge. Get key strategies for fostering a customer-centric culture, building effective product teams, and aligning leadership with team goals. Whether you’re new to OKRs or looking to refine your process, this episode provides actionable advice for team leaders, product managers, and executives alike. Inside the Episode... The role of OKRs in driving business alignment and outcomes The importance of clarifying the "why" behind processes like OKRs or Agile Josh Seiden’s background and his early design work with the Kensington Turbo Mouse Strategies for using frameworks to empower teams and avoid over-focusing on the process How to implement OKRs successfully and avoid common pitfalls The evolution of design thinking in product development Understanding the customer’s role at every level of an organization Key lessons from "Who Does What by How Much" and Josh's other books Mentioned in this Episode: The Kensington Turbo Mouse Subscribe to the Convergence podcast wherever you get podcasts, including video episodes on YouTube at youtube.com/@convergencefmpodcast. Learn something? Give us a 5-star review and like the podcast on YouTube. It's how we grow. Follow the Pod Linkedin: X: Instagram: @podconvergence /episode/index/show/0c4e24e4-35d3-41eb-a68b-e059cd1d4dcb/id/37914345

Best of Convergence: How Generative AI and DORA Metrics Transform Software Development Teams with Derek Ferguson 08/13/2025

Best of Convergence: How Generative AI and DORA Metrics Transform Software Development Teams with Derek Ferguson Derek Ferguson from The Fitch Group returns to share how his team of 600+ developers leverages generative AI tools like Amazon’s CodeWhisperer and implements DORA metrics to boost productivity and team health. In this second part of the conversation, he delves into the transformative impact of these tools and the innovative strategies driving adoption and success at scale. Listen to Derek’s experiences in introducing cutting-edge tools to a large organization, his lessons in fostering experimentation, and the surprising parallels between today’s AI adoption and the internet boom. From the role of community practices versus centers of excellence to pragmatic advice on technology adoption, this episode is packed with actionable insights for leaders and developers alike. Stick around for Derek’s perspective on the evolving role of technologists in an AI-driven world and how music creation intersects with his tech expertise. Inside the episode… • Exploring generative AI for software development and its transformative potential. • Implementing DORA metrics to boost productivity and enhance team alignment. • Lessons learned from scaling technology practices across large organizations. • The balance between prescriptive guidance and fostering creativity in teams. • Insights into creating impactful developer communities of practice. Mentioned in this episode • Generative AI tools (e.g., Amazon’s CodeWhisperer) • DORA metrics (DevOps Research and Assessment) • Tools for music and tech crossover (e.g., RipX, Replicate) Unlock the full potential of your product team with Integral's player coaches, experts in lean, human-centered design. Visit integral.io/convergence for a free Product Success Lab workshop to gain clarity and confidence in tackling any product design or engineering challenge. Subscribe to the Convergence podcast wherever you get podcasts including video episodes to get updated on the other crucial conversations that we'll post on YouTube at youtube.com/@convergencefmpodcast Learn something? Give us a 5 star review and like the podcast on YouTube. It's how we grow. Follow the Pod Linkedin: X: Instagram: @podconvergence Unlock the full potential of your product team with Integral's player coaches, experts in lean, human-centered design. Visit integral.io/convergence for a free Product Success Lab workshop to gain clarity and confidence in tackling any product design or engineering challenge. Subscribe to the Convergence podcast wherever you get podcasts including video episodes to get updated on the other crucial conversations that we'll post on YouTube at youtube.com/@convergencefmpodcast Learn something? Give us a 5 star review and like the podcast on YouTube. It's how we grow. Follow the Pod Linkedin: X: Instagram: @podconvergence /episode/index/show/0c4e24e4-35d3-41eb-a68b-e059cd1d4dcb/id/37804905

Best Of Convergence: Crafting "Surprisingly Great" Developer Experiences with Kenneth Auchenberg 08/06/2025

Best Of Convergence: Crafting "Surprisingly Great" Developer Experiences with Kenneth Auchenberg Great developer experience isn’t just about clean docs or helpful error messages—it’s about intentionally delighting your user at every step. In this episode of Convergence.fm, host Ashok Sivanand is joined by Kenneth Auchenberg—former product leader at Microsoft and Stripe—for a masterclass on what it really takes to design and scale developer-centric platforms. The Convergence.fm podcast team is taking a break in the month of August, but we’ll be back with new episodes in the fall. Until then, Ashok wants to share one of his favorite episodes. We’ll be back in September with a new set of episodes on fostering engaged teams who ship delightful products. Thanks for watching and listening. This episode originally aired June 24th, 2024 Kenneth helped shape Visual Studio Code and later played a key role in defining Stripe’s gold-standard API experience. In this conversation, he breaks down the building blocks of DevEx success—from friction logging and human-centered design to measuring satisfaction and optimizing for the long tail of developers. They explore the differences between platform and infrastructure businesses, explain why most companies aren’t ready to be platforms, and walk through frameworks for product metrics that matter. Whether you’re designing your first SDK or scaling a full-fledged platform, you’ll leave with actionable insights for making developers love your product. Unlock the full potential of your product team with Integral’s player coaches, experts in lean, human-centered design. Visit for a free Product Success Lab workshop to gain clarity and confidence in tackling any product design or engineering challenge. Inside the episode… What Stripe got right about developer experience The difference between DevRel and DevEx How to test and measure developer delight When to evolve from infrastructure to platform Why great DevEx starts with product-market fit Mentioned in this episode… Stripe Microsoft / VS Code GitHub AWS Marketplace Shopify Superbase Recent.dev Subscribe to the Convergence podcast wherever you get podcasts including video episodes on YouTube at Learn something? Give us a 5 star review and like the podcast on YouTube. It’s how we grow. /episode/index/show/0c4e24e4-35d3-41eb-a68b-e059cd1d4dcb/id/37644895

Best Of Convergence: How To Drive Product Development and Market Expansion with Ben Foster, Prodify 08/02/2025

Best Of Convergence: How To Drive Product Development and Market Expansion with Ben Foster, Prodify As former Chief Product Officer at Whoop, Ben Foster had a front-row seat to one of the boldest product decisions in wearables: selling hardware as a subscription. In this encore episode, Ashok and Ben explore what it takes to align hardware, firmware, and software teams to create a seamless membership experience—and how that strategy set the stage for Whoop’s continued success, including the recent release of the Whoop 5. The Convergence.fm podcast team is taking a break in the month of August, but we’ll be back with new episodes in the fall. Until then, Ashok wants to share one of his favorite episodes, starring Ben Foster of Prodigy, who opens up about building hardware-enabled subscription products and crossing the product-market chasm. We’ll be back in September with a new set of episodes on fostering engaged teams who ship delightful products. Thanks for watching and listening. This Episode originally aired May 21st, 2024 You’ll hear how Whoop adapted to serve both elite athletes and everyday health-minded users, how Ben’s frameworks helped prioritize roadmaps under pressure, and how the team leveraged personas and retention metrics to shape the product strategy. If you’re navigating the shift from services to scalable product thinking—or just love geeking out on wearable tech—this one’s for you. Unlock the full potential of your product team with Integral’s player coaches, experts in lean, human-centered design. Visit for a free Product Success Lab workshop to gain clarity and confidence in tackling any product design or engineering challenge. Inside the episode… Why Whoop bet on a subscription-only hardware model—and how it paid off Navigating product strategy across hardware, firmware, and software What it really means to build for product-market fit A breakdown of Whoop’s layered user personas How to cross the chasm without losing your early adopters The importance of clarity, vision, and playing offense as a product team Lessons on persona development and roadmap prioritization What product leaders get wrong about saying “no” Behind the book: Build What Matters and the frameworks inside Mentioned in this episode Whoop Prodigy Group Build What Matters (book) Integral Product Success Lab Microsoft Spot Subscribe to the Convergence podcast wherever you get podcasts including video episodes on YouTube at Learn something? Give us a 5 star review and like the podcast on YouTube. It’s how we grow. /episode/index/show/0c4e24e4-35d3-41eb-a68b-e059cd1d4dcb/id/37644880

Q&A: No One Understands Your Demo? Here’s WHY | TDD Isn’t Just for CODE — Use It Everywhere! 07/28/2025

Q&A: No One Understands Your Demo? Here’s WHY | TDD Isn’t Just for CODE — Use It Everywhere! If you’ve ever wondered how to make test-driven development more than a coding technique, this episode is for you. Ashok Sivanand and producer Doug Branson answer listener and Reddit-sourced questions about building better product teams—covering everything from mindset shifts to hard truths about performance reviews and strategic alignment. Ashok connects TDD to the principles of Essentialism by Greg McKeown, revealing how teams can define success before they begin and cut through the noise of Slack and OKRs. Hear practical advice for first-time founders struggling to articulate value without a 20-minute demo, plus techniques to scale beyond early adopter customers using real-world interviews and Jobs to Be Done. Later, they explore how to recover from a tough performance review, especially in remote roles, and why communication—not effort—is often the missing ingredient. The episode wraps with a conversation about the dangers of leadership ambiguity when a company isn’t sure whether it’s selling a service or a product. ASK YOUR QUESTION: convergence.fm/contact Unlock the full potential of your product team with Integral's player coaches, experts in lean, human-centered design. Visit integral.io/convergence for a free Product Success Lab workshop to gain clarity and confidence in tackling any product design or engineering challenge. Episodes referenced in this episode... From Code to Culture: How Shopify Thrives Under Farhan Thawar’s Thought Leadership - The POWER of Small Data With High Signal - A Jobs To Be Done masterclass with Andrew Glaser - Building Customer-Centric Teams: Josh Seiden on OKRs and Agile - Best of 2024 - Derisking and Evolving on your OKR (Objectives and Key Results) Implementation - Inside the episode... TDD as a mindset beyond code, inspired by Essentialism How to recover from a tough performance review in a remote org Tips for first-time founders explaining product value without demos Jobs to Be Done and using customer language in sales Diagnosing product vs service strategy confusion in your org Mentioned in this episode... Essentialism by Greg McKeown The Mom Test by Rob Fitzpatrick Jobs to Be Done framework Calendly Integral Unlock the full potential of your product team with Integral's player coaches, experts in lean, human-centered design. Visit integral.io/convergence for a free Product Success Lab workshop to gain clarity and confidence in tackling any product design or engineering challenge. Subscribe to the Convergence podcast wherever you get podcasts including video episodes to get updated on the other crucial conversations that we'll post on YouTube at youtube.com/@convergencefmpodcast Learn something? Give us a 5 star review and like the podcast on YouTube. It's how we grow. Follow the Pod Linkedin: X: Instagram: @podconvergence /episode/index/show/0c4e24e4-35d3-41eb-a68b-e059cd1d4dcb/id/37537400

The Dangers of Vibe Coding Addiction and Single Points of Failure - Your Product Team Questions Answered! 07/16/2025

The Dangers of Vibe Coding Addiction and Single Points of Failure - Your Product Team Questions Answered! What happens when your lead engineer leaves and takes the product knowledge with them? In this episode, Ashok Sivanand tackles some of the most pressing product and engineering questions straight from the community—including how to prevent panic-inducing knowledge loss, when founders should or shouldn’t vibe code, and how to choose between building full-service or self-serve platforms. Ashok is joined by producer Doug Branson for a first-ever audience Q&A format that covers real problems from real teams. From unit test-driven documentation to AI-assisted code exploration, this episode gives both quick fixes and long-term strategies for building resilient teams. Plus, learn the Lexus vs Scion framework that product leaders are using to determine their go-to-market path when serving both advanced and beginner users. Unlock the full potential of your product team with Integral's player coaches, experts in lean, human-centered design. Visit for a free Product Success Lab workshop to gain clarity and confidence in tackling any product design or engineering challenge. Inside the episode... How to prevent engineering burnout and knowledge bottlenecks The pros and cons of vibe coding for technical founders Using AI tools like Copilot to debug and document Choosing between full-service vs self-serve platform tools Aligning product strategy with internal team maturity Mentioned in this episode GitHub Copilot Cursor Reddit Product Management Community Subscribe to the Convergence podcast wherever you get podcasts including video episodes to get updated on the other crucial conversations that we'll post on YouTube at youtube.com/@convergencefmpodcast Learn something? Give us a 5 star review and like the podcast on YouTube. It's how we grow. Follow the Pod Linkedin: X: Instagram: @podconvergence /episode/index/show/0c4e24e4-35d3-41eb-a68b-e059cd1d4dcb/id/37431280

The Missing Link in Hybrid Teams? A Sense of Belonging.Why It’s More Strategic Than DEI 07/10/2025

The Missing Link in Hybrid Teams? A Sense of Belonging.Why It’s More Strategic Than DEI Dan Berger led Social Tables through a $100M exit and now he’s focused on something even harder to build: belonging. In this vulnerable conversation, he shares what most leaders miss about culture, how his board almost ousted him due to a toxic exec hire, and why belonging should be treated as a leadership choice — not an HR initiative. He also unpacks why rituals matter, why alcohol doesn’t belong in team settings, and what founders can learn from AA meetings about structure, vulnerability, and connection. We also get into his latest venture, Assemble Hospitality Group, a new asset class of “micro resorts” designed for team offsites and retreats. Dan breaks down the mechanics of retreat design, conscious exclusivity, and how different team members — from introverts to eager belongers — need different paths to feel seen and connected. If your company is hybrid, remote, or just feeling disconnected, this episode offers sharp, practical insight to get back on track. Unlock the full potential of your product team with Integral's player coaches, experts in lean, human-centered design. Visit for a free Product Success Lab workshop to gain clarity and confidence in tackling any product design or engineering challenge. Inside the episode Why belonging is more strategic than DEI The definition of belonging (and why it’s a sense, not a feeling) Dan’s concept of “conscious exclusivity” and why it matters for leaders What to do when a board pushes exec hires that don’t fit your culture How to communicate emotion and intuition as a founder What Alcoholics Anonymous teaches us about structure and ritual How to design team retreats with different belonging personas in mind Why alcohol doesn’t belong in work events When to prioritize shared learning over shared office space Mentioned in this episode belongingquest.com/quiz – Belonging Archetype Quiz Belonging Archetypes: Chimpanzees, Meerkats, Jaguars, Wolves The Quest by Dan Berger Assemble Hospitality Group Home Assistant Granola (screen recorder) Atio (CRM) Clay (prospecting tool) Obama’s “Team of Rivals” Cabinet Unlock the full potential of your product team with Integral's player coaches, experts in lean, human-centered design. Visit integral.io/convergence for a free Product Success Lab workshop to gain clarity and confidence in tackling any product design or engineering challenge. Subscribe to the Convergence podcast wherever you get podcasts including video episodes to get updated on the other crucial conversations that we'll post on YouTube at youtube.com/@convergencefmpodcast Learn something? Give us a 5 star review and like the podcast on YouTube. It's how we grow. Follow the Pod Linkedin: X: Instagram: @podconvergence /episode/index/show/0c4e24e4-35d3-41eb-a68b-e059cd1d4dcb/id/37355425

Authenticity by Design: Building Mental Health Tools That Actually Work with Seth Micarelli of Volo Health 07/02/2025

Authenticity by Design: Building Mental Health Tools That Actually Work with Seth Micarelli of Volo Health AI can make therapy more accessible—but only if it's done right. In this episode, ex-Google and Amazon product leader Seth shares his journey from panic attacks to building Volo Health, an AI-powered tool for anxiety, depression, and addiction. He breaks down how most therapy tools get it wrong, what makes human-centered AI actually safe, and how product teams can reconnect with the humans they serve—even at scale. Seth opens up about leaving Silicon Valley, his personal journey with emotional healing, and the limits of traditional therapy. Along the way, we explore the ethics of AI in mental health, the value of 12-step recovery models, and the risks of over-validating users with AI. If you're a founder, product lead, or designer thinking about building in healthcare, mental wellness, or with generative AI—this conversation is a must. Unlock the full potential of your product team with Integral's player coaches, experts in lean, human-centered design. Visit integral.io/convergence for a free Product Success Lab workshop to gain clarity and confidence in tackling any product design or engineering challenge. In this episode... Why AI validation isn't always helpful—and can sometimes be harmful How Volo Health uses opinionated AI, clinical oversight, and anonymized data to personalize support The difference between optimizing for scale vs. building for emotional impact What Seth learned from working at Amazon, Google, and in recovery circles How founders can build teams and products that don’t lose sight of the human Mentioned in this episode... Volo Health LangChain / LangGraph ChatGPT / GPT-based therapy models 988 Crisis Line SVS Subwoofers (yes, really) Subscribe to the Convergence podcast wherever you get podcasts including video episodes to get updated on the other crucial conversations that we'll post on YouTube at youtube.com/@convergencefmpodcast Learn something? Give us a 5 star review and like the podcast on YouTube. It's how we grow. Follow the Pod Linkedin: X: Instagram: @podconvergence /episode/index/show/0c4e24e4-35d3-41eb-a68b-e059cd1d4dcb/id/37248075

Startups Are Nailing Agentic Workflows — And Why Enterprises Aren’t 06/26/2025

Startups Are Nailing Agentic Workflows — And Why Enterprises Aren’t Karthik Suresh has seen the software industry from all sides — high-frequency trading, Meta’s product teams, early-stage startup trenches, and now the frontier of AI agents. As co-founder of Double-O, he’s building a platform that helps non-technical teams automate complex business processes using AI agents described in plain English. In this episode, Karthik shares hard-won lessons about what it really takes to make agentic workflows work in production — and why most companies are still getting it wrong. We talk about the structural failures hiding inside most AI proof-of-concepts, the overlooked importance of eval frameworks, and why enterprise leaders may be unintentionally blocking their own GenAI progress by clinging to control instead of creating trust. Unlock the full potential of your product team with Integral's player coaches, experts in lean, human-centered design. Visit for a free Product Success Lab workshop to gain clarity and confidence in tackling any product design or engineering challenge. Inside the episode... Why most AI agent workflows break outside the demo environment How to architect agents like a real team, with roles and review loops What eval frameworks are and how they protect optionality Common failure patterns when swapping models or changing prompts How to tell when you’ve actually hit product-market fit Why pivot decisions are rarely data-first and often emotionally fraught How startups maintain speed by designing for change, not certainty What big companies get wrong about AI adoption and control Lessons from a $400M trading system failure Karthik lived through The future of agent-to-agent communication and orchestration protocols Mentioned in this episode AutoGen LangGraph (AI call recorder) Subscribe to the Convergence podcast wherever you get podcasts, including video episodes on YouTube at Learn something? Give us a 5-star review and like the podcast on YouTube. It’s how we grow. /episode/index/show/0c4e24e4-35d3-41eb-a68b-e059cd1d4dcb/id/37143920

Scaling Intelligently: What Intrapreneurs Can Teach Startup CEOs and Investors with Scott Jones, Realeyes 06/19/2025

Scaling Intelligently: What Intrapreneurs Can Teach Startup CEOs and Investors with Scott Jones, Realeyes Some of the biggest product breakthroughs didn’t come from startups — they came from intrapreneurs. In this episode, we speak with Scott Jones, a career intrapreneur who has launched new lines of business at Lenovo, Hewlett Packard Enterprise, and Realeyes, a computer vision AI company serving some of the world’s most influential platforms. Scott shares a detailed, experience-backed look at what it takes to make innovation work inside companies that weren’t built for speed. He breaks down the mindset, team dynamics, and cultural rituals that allow new bets to thrive — and provides practical guidance for founders, executives, and investors looking to bring this approach into their own organizations. Unlock the full potential of your product team with Integral's player coaches, experts in lean, human-centered design. Visit integral.io/convergence for a free Product Success Lab workshop to gain clarity and confidence in tackling any product design or engineering challenge. Inside the episode... How Scott went from analyst and musician to AI product leader A modern definition of intrapreneurship — and why it matters now Key personality traits and behavioral markers of strong intrapreneurs Why ambiguity is a feature, not a bug, in high-growth environments How leaders can foster a culture of experimentation (rituals, roles, and goals) Strategies for validating new product ideas quickly and credibly How to communicate innovation progress to stakeholders with different styles Realeyes’ identity verification tech and the future of online trust How personal trauma and spiritual practices influence Scott’s leadership approach Mentioned in this episode - Where Scott works as VP, Product - Intro guide from the Art of Living Foundation: - Official site with book info and resources: - Publisher page for the book: - Book info (note: EOS books are often sold through their coaching platform): - His foundational book Autobiography of a Yogi on the Self-Realization Fellowship site: Scott’s linkedIn - https://www.linkedin.com/in/scottjeezey Scott’s instagram - https://www.instagram.com/scottjeezey/ Subscribe to the Convergence podcast wherever you get podcasts — including video episodes on YouTube at Learn something? Give us a 5-star review and like the podcast on YouTube. It's how we grow. /episode/index/show/0c4e24e4-35d3-41eb-a68b-e059cd1d4dcb/id/37061930

Designing for Conflict: How Joshua Graves Builds Better Teams and Products 06/04/2025

Designing for Conflict: How Joshua Graves Builds Better Teams and Products Joshua Graves, founder of Lost Horse Labs and author of We Need to Talk, joins the show to unpack what happens when product leaders ignore hard conversations — and what it takes to build an environment where teams can truly thrive. Drawing from two decades in product design, civic tech, and leadership coaching, Joshua brings practical, deeply human guidance on navigating organizational tension, protecting team trust, and avoiding the trap of control disguised as process. From the neuroscience of conflict to the value of rituals and the art of disagreeing and committing, Joshua’s insights are rooted in experience — not just theory. Whether you're a CEO, product leader, or just someone who wants to get better at the conversations that matter, this episode offers useful ideas for designing more human teams and more honest leadership. Unlock the full potential of your product team with Integral's player coaches, experts in lean, human-centered design. Visit for a free Product Success Lab workshop to gain clarity and confidence in tackling any product design or engineering challenge. Inside the episode... Why conflict avoidance is costly — and how to know when it’s time to speak up What it really means to create psychological safety (and how to ritualize it) Understanding the brain’s role in conflict, emotion, and reactivity The “compass vs. map” approach to navigating difficult conversations How to mediate conflict as a leader without becoming a dictator Using tools like user manuals and plus-deltas to personalize collaboration Building rituals without becoming dogmatic or overly process-driven When to assume positive intent — and when that’s no longer productive What to do when you’re facing manipulation, gaslighting, or loss of trust Why checking in with yourself can be the most powerful leadership too Mentioned in this episode Joshua’/s book - We Need to Talk: A Survival Guide for Tough Conversations. Lost Horse Labs – , e-mail hello at losthorse.design Plus/Deltas as a feedback framework: Nonviolent communication: Joshua’s favourite maker tools - Glowforge - Joshua’s favourite maker tools - XTool (screen printing tools) - Joshua’s LinkedIn: Subscribe to the Convergence podcast wherever you get podcasts including video episodes to get updated on the other crucial conversations that we'll post on YouTube at youtube.com/@convergencefmpodcast Learn something? Give us a 5 star review and like the podcast on YouTube. It's how we grow. Follow the Pod Linkedin: X: Instagram: @podconvergence /episode/index/show/0c4e24e4-35d3-41eb-a68b-e059cd1d4dcb/id/36842135

Why Most Product Teams FAIL to Grow: Jayson Robinson on High-Agency PMs & Real Impact 05/29/2025

Why Most Product Teams FAIL to Grow: Jayson Robinson on High-Agency PMs & Real Impact Most PMs still think velocity = impact. They're wrong. If no one on your team owns adoption, retention, or revenue—then growth isn’t anyone’s job. Jayson Robinson joins Convergence.fm to unpack why most product teams are built to ship—but not to grow. From leading growth at Toptal and BairesDev to advising SaaS companies and launching enterprise products at M&S, Jayson has seen where traditional product orgs fall apart—and what high-agency PMs actually do differently. We cover how to spot deadweight roles, when founders need to let go, and what happens when you hire people who are better at agile ceremonies than business outcomes. Unlock the full potential of your product team with Integral's player coaches, experts in lean, human-centered design. Visit for a free Product Success Lab workshop to gain clarity and confidence in tackling any product design or engineering challenge. Inside the episode... Why velocity without measurable outcomes is a red flag The critical differences between growth PMs and generalist PMs What high-agency PMs do that process-driven PMs can’t replicate How to interview for ownership, not just experience The real reason “translator” PMs are getting phased out What happened when HP focused on output over market alignment How Duolingo’s growth org became its engine of compounding retention Why founders who don’t let go end up being the ceiling Lessons from Netflix, Shopify, and Linear on org design that scales Mentioned in this episode The HP Way by David Packard — Duolingo’s Growth Strategy — Lenny Rachitsky breakdown Shopify Product Leadership — First Round article Linear’s Product Development Approach — Read on Linear’s blog High Agency Hiring — Michael Dearing on First Round Jayson’s blog post on the future of PM roles: Mind the product talk by ElevenLabs and build measure learn cycle Jason’s Linkedin profile Unlock the full potential of your product team with Integral's player coaches, experts in lean, human-centered design. Visit integral.io/convergence for a free Product Success Lab workshop to gain clarity and confidence in tackling any product design or engineering challenge. Subscribe to the Convergence podcast wherever you get podcasts including video episodes to get updated on the other crucial conversations that we'll post on YouTube at youtube.com/@convergencefmpodcast Learn something? Give us a 5 star review and like the podcast on YouTube. It's how we grow. Follow the Pod Linkedin: X: Instagram: @podconvergence /episode/index/show/0c4e24e4-35d3-41eb-a68b-e059cd1d4dcb/id/36773250

Malware by Prompt: How Vibe Coding and AI Assistants Can Compromise Your Codebase 05/21/2025

Malware by Prompt: How Vibe Coding and AI Assistants Can Compromise Your Codebase Large language models are helping developers move faster than ever. But behind the convenience of AI-generated code lies a security vulnerability: package hallucinations. In this episode, Ashok sits down with U.S. Army cybersecurity officer and PhD researcher Joe Spracklen to unpack new research on how hallucinated package names—fake libraries that don’t yet exist—can be weaponized by attackers and quietly introduced into your software supply chain. Joe’s recent academic study reveals how large language models like ChatGPT and Code Llama are frequently recommending software packages that don’t actually exist—yet. These fake suggestions create the perfect opportunity for attackers to register malicious packages with those names, compromising developer machines and potentially entire corporate networks. Whether your team is deep into AI pair programming or just starting to experiment, this conversation surfaces key questions every tech leader should be asking before pushing AI-generated code to production. Unlock the full potential of your product team with Integral's player coaches, experts in lean, human-centered design. Visit for a free Product Success Lab workshop to gain clarity and confidence in tackling any product design or engineering challenge. Inside the episode... What "package hallucinations" are and why they matter How AI code assistants can introduce real vulnerabilities into your network Which models were most likely to hallucinate packages Why hallucinated package names are often persistent—not random How attackers could weaponize hallucinated names to spread malware What mitigation strategies were tested—and which ones failed Why simple retrieval-based techniques (like RAG) don’t solve the problem Steps security-conscious teams can take today to protect their environments The importance of developer awareness as more non-traditional engineers enter the field Mentioned in this episode Python Package Index (PyPI) npm JavaScript package registry Snyk, Socket.dev, Phylum (dependency monitoring tools) Artifactory, Nexus, Verdaccio (private package registries) ChatGPT, Code Llama, DeepSeek (AI models tested) Subscribe to the Convergence podcast wherever you get podcasts including video episodes on YouTube at Learn something? Give us a 5 star review and like the podcast on YouTube. It's how we grow. Unlock the full potential of your product team with Integral's player coaches, experts in lean, human-centered design. Visit integral.io/convergence for a free Product Success Lab workshop to gain clarity and confidence in tackling any product design or engineering challenge. Subscribe to the Convergence podcast wherever you get podcasts including video episodes to get updated on the other crucial conversations that we'll post on YouTube at youtube.com/@convergencefmpodcast Learn something? Give us a 5 star review and like the podcast on YouTube. It's how we grow. Follow the Pod Linkedin: X: Instagram: @podconvergence /episode/index/show/0c4e24e4-35d3-41eb-a68b-e059cd1d4dcb/id/36655365

How Mission-Driven Organizations Maximize Impact with Limited Resources with Jason Fraser 05/14/2025

How Mission-Driven Organizations Maximize Impact with Limited Resources with Jason Fraser Most companies have a mission statement. But few are truly mission-driven in practice. In this episode, Jason Fraser joins Ashok to unpack what it actually means to prioritize mission over profit — and how the best organizations are able to do both. Jason reflects on the differences between performative mission language and the kind of operational decision-making that aligns tightly with purpose. He shares the concept of “mission ratios” and how teams can use them to identify where they’re constrained, where they have leverage, and how to get disproportionate outcomes from limited inputs. Drawing on examples from Patagonia, World Central Kitchen, and a federal asylum processing team, Jason walks through the tools and frameworks that mission-first leaders can use to improve focus, clarity, and measurable impact. Whether you’re running a nonprofit, a B Corp, or just trying to do more meaningful work, this episode gives you language and direction to guide your team’s decisions. Plus, Jason shares how to spot the ratios that matter most — and what to do once you find them. Unlock the full potential of your product team with Integral's player coaches, experts in lean, human-centered design. Visit for a free Product Success Lab workshop to gain clarity and confidence in tackling any product design or engineering challenge. Inside the episode... What really defines a mission-driven organization Mission vs. permission work: how to make trade-offs without guilt Why purpose can actually boost profitability and team alignment Introducing “mission ratios”: the unit economics of social impact Frameworks for identifying your most limiting constraints How to apply the impact mapping tool to optimize outcomes Lessons from World Central Kitchen, Earthshot Prize, and a USCIS case study Tractability vs. leverage: how to prioritize what’s actually solvable The hidden assumptions that reduce efficiency and how to challenge them How organizations can operationalize ethics without compromising viability Mentioned in this episode Jason and Janice’s book, Farther, Faster, Way Less Drama Jason’s workshops and events: https://missionratio.com/events/ Jason’s linkedin: World Central Kitchen Patagonia CERO Bikes The Earthshot Prize Climatebase Fellowship Good Strategy, Bad Strategy by Richard Rumelt Impact Mapping by Gojko Adzic Deloitte Study Target versus Costco Value Chain Unlock the full potential of your product team with Integral's player coaches, experts in lean, human-centered design. Visit integral.io/convergence for a free Product Success Lab workshop to gain clarity and confidence in tackling any product design or engineering challenge. Subscribe to the Convergence podcast wherever you get podcasts including video episodes to get updated on the other crucial conversations that we'll post on YouTube at youtube.com/@convergencefmpodcast Learn something? Give us a 5 star review and like the podcast on YouTube. It's how we grow. Follow the Pod Linkedin: X: Instagram: @podconvergence /episode/index/show/0c4e24e4-35d3-41eb-a68b-e059cd1d4dcb/id/36551390

AI-Driven Development: Driving adoption on your product teams, Team Culture, and AI-Native Engineering Practices 05/07/2025

AI-Driven Development: Driving adoption on your product teams, Team Culture, and AI-Native Engineering Practices How do you move from dabbling with AI and vibe coding to building real, production-grade software with it? In this episode, Austin Vance, CEO of Focused returns and we transition the conversation from building AI-enabled applications to fostering AI-native engineering teams. Austin shares how generative AI isn’t just a shortcut—it’s reshaping how we architect, code, and lead. We also get to hear Austin’s thoughts on the leaked ‘AI Mandate’ memo from Shopify’s CEO, Tobi Lutke. We cover what Austin refers to as ‘AI-driven development’, how to win over the skeptics on your teams, and why traditional patterns of software engineering might not be the best fit for LLM-driven workflows. Whether you're an engineer,product leader, or startup founder, this episode will give you a practical lens on what AI-native software development actually requires—and how to foster adoption on your teams quickly and safely to get the benefits of using AI in product delivery. Unlock the full potential of your product team with Integral's player coaches, experts in lean, human-centered design. Visit for a free Product Success Lab workshop to gain clarity and confidence in tackling any product design or engineering challenge. Inside the episode... Why Shopify’s leaked AI memo was a "permission slip" for your own team The three personas in AI adoption: advocates, skeptics, and holdouts How AI-driven development (AIDD) differs from “AI-assisted” workflows Tools and practices Focused uses to ship faster and cheaper with AI Pair programming vs. pairing with an LLM: similarities and mindset shifts How teams are learning to prompt effectively—without prompt engineering training Vibe coding vs. integrating with entrenched systems: what's actually feasible Scaling engineering culture around non-determinism and experimentation Practical tips for onboarding dev teams to tools like Cursor, Windsurf, and Vercel AI SDK Using LLMs for deep codebase exploration, not just code generation Mentioned in this episode Focused (focused.io) Shopify internal AI memo Unlock the full potential of your product team with Integral's player coaches, experts in lean, human-centered design. Visit integral.io/convergence for a free Product Success Lab workshop to gain clarity and confidence in tackling any product design or engineering challenge. Subscribe to the Convergence podcast wherever you get podcasts including video episodes to get updated on the other crucial conversations that we'll post on YouTube at youtube.com/@convergencefmpodcast Learn something? Give us a 5 star review and like the podcast on YouTube. It's how we grow. Follow the Pod Linkedin: X: Instagram: @podconvergence /episode/index/show/0c4e24e4-35d3-41eb-a68b-e059cd1d4dcb/id/36458960

Building Agentic Apps With Craft: Field Stories from Austin Vance, CEO, Co-Founder of Focused 05/01/2025

Building Agentic Apps With Craft: Field Stories from Austin Vance, CEO, Co-Founder of Focused What does it actually take to build agentic AI applications that hold up in the real world? In this episode, Ashok sits down with Austin, founder of Focused, to share field stories and hard-won lessons from building AI systems that go beyond flashy demos. From legal assistants to government transparency tools, Austin breaks down the concrete criteria for identifying where AI makes sense — and where it doesn’t. They unpack how to find the right starting point for your first agentic app, why integration with legacy systems is the real hurdle, and the engineering must-haves that keep AI behavior safe and reliable. You’ll hear practical guidance on designing eval frameworks, using abstraction layers like LangChain, and how observability can shape your development roadmap just like in traditional software. Whether you’re a product leader or a CTO, this conversation will help you distinguish hype from real opportunity in AI. Unlock the full potential of your product team with Integral's player coaches, experts in lean, human-centered design. Visit for a free Product Success Lab workshop to gain clarity and confidence in tackling any product design or engineering challenge. Inside the episode... A practical checklist for identifying your first AI-powered app The hidden cost of "AI for AI’s sake" and where traditional software is better Why repetitive knowledge work is prime territory for automation How Focused helped Hamlet build an AI for parsing government meeting data Where read-only data access gives you a safe starting point Why integration is often more complex than the AI itself The importance of eval frameworks and test-driven LLM development How to use observability to continuously improve AI agent behavior Speed vs. believability: surprising lessons from Groq-powered inference Using multiple models in one system and LLMs to QA each other Mentioned in this episode Hamlet (government transparency startup) - LangChain - Groq - Claude (Anthropic) - Dspy Prompting framework - Shopify AI memo (referenced) - Amazon Bedrock / SageMaker - Unlock the full potential of your product team with Integral's player coaches, experts in lean, human-centered design. Visit integral.io/convergence for a free Product Success Lab workshop to gain clarity and confidence in tackling any product design or engineering challenge. Subscribe to the Convergence podcast wherever you get podcasts including video episodes to get updated on the other crucial conversations that we'll post on YouTube at youtube.com/@convergencefmpodcast Learn something? Give us a 5 star review and like the podcast on YouTube. It's how we grow. Follow the Pod Linkedin: X: Instagram: @podconvergence /episode/index/show/0c4e24e4-35d3-41eb-a68b-e059cd1d4dcb/id/36377930

The Power of Small Data With High Signal - A Jobs To Be Done Masterclass with Andrew Glaser 04/23/2025

The Power of Small Data With High Signal - A Jobs To Be Done Masterclass with Andrew Glaser What do candy bars, couches, and car dealerships have in common? For Andrew Glaser, they’re all opportunities to understand how real people make decisions — and why most product teams get those decisions wrong. In this episode, Andrew shares his journey from hedge fund manager to product strategist, and now founder of Swizzle, an AI product built around Jobs to Be Done (JTBD) thinking. He opens up about how false positives, feature bloat, and over-reliance on personas lead teams down the wrong path — and what it really takes to make something customers will hire. We get into the guts of JTBD, from how to know when you’ve hit causality in an interview, to why understanding tradeoffs is more useful than knowing demographics. Andrew shares practical frameworks and surprising stories — including what Snickers can teach you about product-market fit, why most sofas don’t sell, and how Intercom 15x’ed revenue just by reframing how they talked about their product. Whether you’re building software or selling furniture, this conversation will challenge how you think about customer insight — and give you tools to sharpen your product bets. Inside the episode… Why false positives in customer research can wreck a strategy How JTBD helped turn around a billion-dollar furniture retailer The 4 real jobs behind buying a sofa Snickers vs. Milky Way: A JTBD breakdown of context and tradeoffs What most people get wrong about customer interviews Why personas don’t drive decisions — and what actually does How Intercom used JTBD to grow from $5M to $75M Using AI to support high-consideration decisions How to know what your product is allowed to suck at Why survey data without context leads to bad bets Mentioned in this episode Andrew’s Startup Swizzl - https://swizzl.ai/ Andrew’s cofounder Bob Moesta - https://therewiredgroup.com/about/bob-moesta/ Clay Christensen’s HBR article: “Know Your Customers’ Jobs to Be Done” - https://hbr.org/2016/09/know-your-customers-jobs-to-be-done “Demand-Side Sales” by Bob Moesta - https://www.amazon.com/dp/1544509987/?bestFormat=true&k=demand%20side%20sales%20101&ref_=nb_sb_ss_w_scx-ent-pd-bk-d_de_k0_1_12&crid=8C2BLR9H1HF6&sprefix=demand%20side%20 “Competing Against Luck” by Clayton Christensen - https://www.amazon.com/Clayton-Christensen-Competing-Against-%E3%80%902018%E3%80%91/dp/B07KPWQQY3/ref=sr_1_2 Unlock the full potential of your product team with Integral's player coaches, experts in lean, human-centered design. Visit integral.io/convergence for a free Product Success Lab workshop to gain clarity and confidence in tackling any product design or engineering challenge. Subscribe to the Convergence podcast wherever you get podcasts including video episodes to get updated on the other crucial conversations that we'll post on YouTube at youtube.com/@convergencefmpodcast Learn something? Give us a 5 star review and like the podcast on YouTube. It's how we grow. Follow the Pod Linkedin: X: Instagram: @podconvergence /episode/index/show/0c4e24e4-35d3-41eb-a68b-e059cd1d4dcb/id/36281920

Taking Control: How One Exec Team Reclaimed Their Tech Strategy 04/17/2025

Taking Control: How One Exec Team Reclaimed Their Tech Strategy A frustrated CEO, a legacy system no one liked, and a looming contract deadline — this episode unpacks the story of how one team broke out of vendor-driven inertia and took back control of their tech strategy. What started as confusion and friction turned into clarity and confidence, all through the power of intentional facilitation and a tightly structured two-day workshop. You’ll hear how a group of cross-functional stakeholders aligned on priorities, identified risky assumptions, and rapidly shaped a new path forward — including a validated RFP and scoring rubric — in just 16 hours. This episode is packed with practical tips for anyone facing a big, high-stakes decision with too many options and too little time. Inside the episode... A CEO's challenge with legacy tech and vendor pressure How a two-day workshop turned chaos into clarity The role of facilitation in accelerating strategic alignment Stack ranking, 2x2 matrices, and other prioritization techniques Why solo work before group discussion makes a huge difference Designing better user stories from the ground up Using ChatGPT to draft faster, better RFPs and rubrics How to spot and de-risk your most dangerous assumptions Tactical facilitation tips for running your own workshop The impact of intentional structure, breaks, and focus Mentioned in this episode ChatGPT RFP (Request for Proposal) templates and scoring rubrics Integral’s Plus/Delta/Learn framework Facilitation techniques like 2x2 matrices, stack ranking, dot voting Data integration planning Unlock the full potential of your product team with Integral's player coaches, experts in lean, human-centered design. Visit integral.io/convergence for a free Product Success Lab workshop to gain clarity and confidence in tackling any product design or engineering challenge. Subscribe to the Convergence podcast wherever you get podcasts including video episodes to get updated on the other crucial conversations that we'll post on YouTube at youtube.com/@convergencefmpodcast Learn something? Give us a 5 star review and like the podcast on YouTube. It's how we grow. Follow the Pod Linkedin: X: Instagram: @podconvergence /episode/index/show/0c4e24e4-35d3-41eb-a68b-e059cd1d4dcb/id/36200125

Shopify's LEAKED AI Mandate Explained — 6 Takeaways for Your Product Team 04/10/2025

Shopify's LEAKED AI Mandate Explained — 6 Takeaways for Your Product Team When Shopify CEO Tobi Lütke issued an internal memo calling AI a “baseline skill,” it sent rippiles across the industry. In this solo episode, we break down what the AI mandate actually says, why it’s happening now, and how teams can apply the same principles to drive smarter, faster product development. Whether you're skeptical or inspired by the move, there’s plenty to unpack about leadership, culture, and what it really takes to scale AI adoption. You’ll hear six specific actions from the memo that are already shaping how Shopify operates—from prototyping to peer reviews—and tactical ideas for applying each one inside your own organization. With references to historical moments from Apple and Amazon, this episode puts the memo in broader context and makes the case for why now might be the time to stop experimenting with AI and start committing. Inside the episode... Why Shopify’s CEO believes AI is now a mandatory skill How the company is embedding AI into its prototyping phase What it means to include AI usage in performance reviews Tactics for encouraging peer learning and internal sharing A case for self-directed experimentation with structured demos How to get your team building value with AI—without waiting on infosec The role of leadership in modeling AI adoption Historical parallels from Amazon and Apple Practical ways to explore AI before requesting new headcount A reminder that AI isn’t just for technical folks Mentioned in this episode Shopify AI memo by CEO Tobi Lütke: https://x.com/tobi/status/1909231499448401946 Nike’s internal AI design tools: Unlock the full potential of your product team with Integral's player coaches, experts in lean, human-centered design. Visit integral.io/convergence for a free Product Success Lab workshop to gain clarity and confidence in tackling any product design or engineering challenge. Subscribe to the Convergence podcast wherever you get podcasts including video episodes to get updated on the other crucial conversations that we'll post on YouTube at youtube.com/@convergencefmpodcast Learn something? Give us a 5 star review and like the podcast on YouTube. It's how we grow. Follow the Pod Linkedin: X: Instagram: @podconvergence /episode/index/show/0c4e24e4-35d3-41eb-a68b-e059cd1d4dcb/id/36087835

Most People Problems Are Leadership Problems – Sel Watts on Building Teams That Work 04/03/2025

Most People Problems Are Leadership Problems – Sel Watts on Building Teams That Work What if the real reason your team isn't thriving isn't them—it's you? In this episode, Ashok sits down with Sel Watts, founder of Wattsnext and a trusted advisor to growth-stage executives, to talk about the blind spots that derail team performance. Sel shares why leaders often overengineer HR systems while neglecting the basic needs of their people—and why getting back to the fundamentals starts with brutal self-honesty. They explore why traditional job descriptions are outdated, how to rethink role clarity using "outcome profiles," and why consistency beats charisma when it comes to leadership. Sel also shares candid stories from the field—including one about a CEO who had zero emotional intelligence but ran a surprisingly stable company—and explains how tools like behavioral profiling can be powerful when used correctly (and not just shelved after a team offsite). Inside the episode Why leadership starts with self-awareness, not structure The “outcome profile” approach to defining roles clearly How to tell if someone’s actually underperforming—or just misaligned What happens when leaders care more about process than people The surprising upsides of being consistent, even if you're not "warm" Why behavioral profiling tools are often wasted One-on-ones, All Hands, and rituals that only work when leaders believe in them Rethinking hiring decisions by starting with the org chart, not the title The cost of skipping reflection before replacing a team member A real-world example of a team where mutual accountability actually works Mentioned in this episode Wattsnextpx - https://www.wattsnextpx.com Extended DISC - https://www.extendeddisc.org/ AcuMax - https://www.acumaxindex.com/ Myers-Briggs - https://www.themyersbriggs.com/en-US/Products-and-Services/Myers-Briggs Predictive Index - https://www.predictiveindex.com/ Entrepreneurs' Organisation (EO) - Unlock the full potential of your product team with Integral's player coaches, experts in lean, human-centered design. Visit integral.io/convergence for a free Product Success Lab workshop to gain clarity and confidence in tackling any product design or engineering challenge. Subscribe to the Convergence podcast wherever you get podcasts including video episodes to get updated on the other crucial conversations that we'll post on YouTube at youtube.com/@convergencefmpodcast Learn something? Give us a 5 star review and like the podcast on YouTube. It's how we grow. Follow the Pod Linkedin: X: Instagram: @podconvergence /episode/index/show/0c4e24e4-35d3-41eb-a68b-e059cd1d4dcb/id/35983490

The Science of Happiness at Work: How Brain Chemistry Impacts Agile Teams 03/26/2025

The Science of Happiness at Work: How Brain Chemistry Impacts Agile Teams What if the key to building better teams and products is hidden in our brain chemistry? In this episode, Brad Nelson joins us to break down the neuroscience behind motivation, happiness, and productivity—especially for Agile teams. From dopamine and serotonin to stress hormones like cortisol, we explore how brain science can inform leadership, team culture, and workplace habits. Plus, we connect these insights to practical Agile practices like pair programming, retrospectives, and sustainable velocity. Unlock the full potential of your product team with Integral's player coaches, experts in lean, human-centered design. Visit for a free Product Success Lab workshop to gain clarity and confidence in tackling any product design or engineering challenge. Inside the episode... The four key brain chemicals that drive motivation and happiness Why a lack of control is the most stressful thing at work The neuroscience behind agile practices How to use gratitude, movement, and breaks to boost productivity The connection between stress, cortisol, and sustainable team performance Practical ways leaders can create high-performing, engaged teams The surprising link between happiness, mastery, and continuous learning Mentioned in this episode Dan Pink’s work on autonomy, mastery, and purpose - DC and Ryan - Shawn Achor - Positive Psychology - Upward Spiral by Dr Alex Korb - Hawthorne studies - Maslow’s hierarchy of needs - Meik Wiking and the Happiness Research Institute - HarvardX: Managing Happiness: Book: The High 5 Habit by Mel Robbins: TED talk on The brain-changing benefits of exercise by Wendy Suzuki: Book: The infinite game by Simon Sinek: Peter Senge’s “Learning Organization” - Brad’s favorite product: Nvidia Shield for streaming content: Brad’s podcast Agile for Agilists: Brad’s LinkedIn: Places to get started on finding a therapist: Psychology Today - Better Help - Talk Space - Subscribe to the Convergence podcast wherever you get podcasts including video episodes to get updated on the other crucial conversations that we'll post on YouTube at youtube.com/@convergencefmpodcast Learn something? Give us a 5 star review and like the podcast on YouTube. It's how we grow. Follow the Pod Linkedin: X: Instagram: @podconvergence /episode/index/show/0c4e24e4-35d3-41eb-a68b-e059cd1d4dcb/id/35862845

Building Platforms Developers Love: Lessons from Stripe, GitHub, and Netflix 03/19/2025

Building Platforms Developers Love: Lessons from Stripe, GitHub, and Netflix Some of the most successful technology companies—like AWS, Stripe, Twilio, and GitHub—have built platforms that developers don’t just use but genuinely love. So, what sets these platforms apart from those that developers avoid? In this episode, we break down three key trends that make a platform indispensable: deep customer empathy, an iterative approach to product management, and a culture of empowerment. Through real-world case studies, including stories from Integral’s work with automotive and commercial vehicle clients, as well as insights from industry leaders like Stripe, GitHub, and Netflix, we explore what it takes to create platforms that drive innovation and efficiency. From GitHub’s early days embedding in developer communities to Stripe’s hands-on support of its first users, and Netflix’s culture of autonomy and accountability, we uncover the strategies behind their success. Whether you're building an internal platform for your company or a developer-focused product for the market, these lessons can help you increase adoption, reduce friction, and build something that developers truly love. Inside the episode... Why platforms like Stripe, GitHub, and AWS succeed while others struggle The three trends that define highly adopted developer platforms A case study from Integral: building a flexible payments platform for an automotive company How GitHub revolutionized version control by embedding in developer communities Stripe’s hands-on early approach to supporting developers—and why it worked The role of iterative product management in successful platform adoption Netflix’s "Freedom and Responsibility" principle and how it drives internal innovation Practical tips for increasing platform adoption in your own organization Mentioned in this episode Netflix Culture Deck: https://jobs.netflix.com/culture Unlock the full potential of your product team with Integral's player coaches, experts in lean, human-centered design. Visit integral.io/convergence for a free Product Success Lab workshop to gain clarity and confidence in tackling any product design or engineering challenge. Subscribe to the Convergence podcast wherever you get podcasts including video episodes to get updated on the other crucial conversations that we'll post on YouTube at youtube.com/@convergencefmpodcast Learn something? Give us a 5 star review and like the podcast on YouTube. It's how we grow. Follow the Pod Linkedin: X: Instagram: @podconvergence /episode/index/show/0c4e24e4-35d3-41eb-a68b-e059cd1d4dcb/id/35751735

The Key to High-Performing Platforms: Product Thinking & Developer Centricity with GM Financial’s Henri van den Bulk 03/12/2025

Delegate Effectively and Safely to AI - As an Expert Consultant or a Dutiful Intern 03/05/2025

Delegate Effectively and Safely to AI - As an Expert Consultant or a Dutiful Intern Most people are barely scratching the surface of what generative AI can do. While some fear it will replace their jobs, others dismiss it as a passing trend—but both extremes miss the point. In this episode, Ashok Sivanand breaks down the real opportunity AI presents: not as a replacement for human judgment, but as a powerful tool that can act as both a dutiful intern and an expert consultant. Learn how to integrate AI into your daily work, from automating tedious tasks to sharpening your strategic thinking, all while staying in control. Unlock the full potential of your product team with Integral's player coaches, experts in lean, human-centered design. for a free Product Success Lab workshop to gain clarity and confidence in tackling any product design or engineering challenge. Inside the episode... Why so few people are using generative AI daily—and why that needs to change The two key roles AI can play: the intern and the consultant How AI can help professionals streamline research, analysis, and decision-making Practical prompts and frameworks for getting the most out of AI tools The dangers of "AI autopilot" and why staying in the driver's seat is critical Security and privacy concerns: What every AI user should know The best AI tools for different use cases—beyond just ChatGPT How companies can encourage AI adoption without creating unnecessary friction Mentioned in this episode AI Tools: ChatGPT, Claude, Perplexity, Gemini, Copilot, Grok Amazon’s six-page memo template for effective decision-making: Ready Signal for external market factor analysis: https://www.readysignal.com/ AI prompting frameworks from Geoff Woods of AI Leadership: Andrej Karpathy's Deep Dive into LLMs: Books by Carmine Gallo: The Presentation Secrets of Steve Jobs & Talk Like TED: https://www.amazon.com/Presentation-Secrets-Steve-Jobs-Insanely/dp/1491514310 Subscribe to the Convergence podcast wherever you get podcasts—including video episodes on YouTube at Learn something? Give the podcast a 5-star review and like the episode on YouTube. It's how the show grows. Follow the Pod Linkedin: X: Instagram: @podconvergence /episode/index/show/0c4e24e4-35d3-41eb-a68b-e059cd1d4dcb/id/35533610

Experimenting with AI to Ship More Valuable Products with Mike Gehard 02/25/2025

Experimenting with AI to Ship More Valuable Products with Mike Gehard Artificial intelligence is radically transforming software development. AI-assisted coding tools are generating billions in investment, promising faster development cycles, and shifting engineering roles from code authors to code editors. But how does this impact software quality, security, and team dynamics? How can product teams embrace AI without falling into the hype? In this episode, AI assisted Agile expert Mike Gehard shares his hands-on experiments with AI in software development. From his deep background at Pivotal Labs to his current work pushing the boundaries of AI-assisted coding, Mike reveals how AI tools can amplify quality practices, speed up prototyping, and even challenge the way we think about source code. He discusses the future of pair programming, the evolving role of test-driven development, and how engineers can better focus on delivering user value. Unlock the full potential of your product team with Integral's player coaches, experts in lean, human-centered design. Visit for a free Product Success Lab workshop to gain clarity and confidence in tackling any product design or engineering challenge. Inside the episode... Mike’s background at Pivotal Labs and why he kept returning How AI is changing the way we think about source code as a liability Why test-driven development still matters in an AI-assisted world The future of pair programming with AI copilots The importance of designing better software in an AI-driven development process Using AI to prototype faster and build user-facing value sooner Lessons learned from real-world experiments with AI-driven development The risks of AI-assisted software, from hallucinations to security Mentioned in this episode Mike’s Substack: Mike’s Github repo: Pivotal Labs: 12-Factor Apps: GitHub Copilot: Cloud Foundry: Lean Startup by Eric Ries: Refactoring by Martin Fowler and Kent Beck Dependabot: Tessl CEO Guy Podjarny’s talk: Aider AI Pair programming terminal: Gemini LLM: Perplexity AI: DeepSeek: Ian Cooper’s talk on TDD: Mike’s newest Mountain Bike IBIS Ripmo V2S: Mike’s recommended house slippers: Sorba Chattanooga Mountain Biking Trails: Subscribe to the Convergence podcast wherever you get podcasts, including video episodes on YouTube at Learn something? Give us a 5-star review and like the podcast on YouTube. It's how we grow. /episode/index/show/0c4e24e4-35d3-41eb-a68b-e059cd1d4dcb/id/35411890

Season 2 Announcement + REPLAY: Farhan Thawar, VP of Engineering at Shopify, on Culture, Leadership and Leveraging A.I. to Ship Better Software 02/18/2025

Season 2 Announcement + REPLAY: Farhan Thawar, VP of Engineering at Shopify, on Culture, Leadership and Leveraging A.I. to Ship Better Software As we put the final touches on our Season 2 premiere with Mike Gabbard, we’re bringing you a replay of our conversation with Farhan Thawar, VP of Engineering at Shopify. Shopify has been a power user of AI coding assistants, gaining early access to GitHub Copilot before its general release. This episode is packed with insights on Shopify’s culture, leadership, and how they leverage AI to ship better software faster. If you missed it the first time, now’s the perfect chance to catch up—especially as it sets the stage for next week’s discussion with Mike Gehard on AI-assisted product development. Enjoy, and we’ll see you next week for the Season 2 premiere! -- In this episode of the Convergence Podcast, host Ashok Sivanand welcomes Farhan Thawar, the Vice President of Engineering at Shopify. Farhan's journey to Shopify came through the acquisition of Helpful, a company he co-founded. With a rich background in leadership roles at Microsoft, Trilogy, and as Vice President of Engineering at both Extreme Labs and Pivotal Labs—where Ashok had the pleasure of collaborating with him—Farhan brings a wealth of experience in building high-performing, engaging technical teams. This episode explores how Shopify, under Farhan’s leadership, operates like a colossal experiment, constantly pushing the boundaries of experimentation and research and development across the company, not just within the product and engineering teams. Listeners will gain insights into Shopify's innovative use of generative AI to enhance customer and team experiences, the integration of tools like Copilot for pair programming, and the effective cultivation of a culture that fosters simplicity in code and robustness in product delivery. Farhan's approach to leadership has not only scaled to accommodate hundreds, if not thousands, of team members but has also maintained a strong focus on recruitment, attracting what he terms "F— yes candidates." The conversation also covers how Shopify's leadership remains deeply connected to their work and maintains technical sharpness, driving a culture where both the product and the people behind it thrive. Inside the episode... The learning mindset at Shopify. Code isn’t the artifact. The learning is the artifact. Complexifiers versus simplifiers Increasing leverage as an engineering leader Leaders should be involved in recruiting. How to get the best leverage on your time, and how to bring the support teams like HR and finance along to work like with an R&D and product mindset Pragmatic framework around process Unlock the full potential of your product team with Integral's player coaches, experts in lean, human-centered design. Visit integral.io/convergence for a free Product Success Lab workshop to gain clarity and confidence in tackling any product design or engineering challenge. Subscribe to the Convergence podcast wherever you get podcasts including video episodes to get updated on the other crucial conversations that we'll post on YouTube at youtube.com/@convergencefmpodcast Learn something? Give us a 5 star review and like the podcast on YouTube. It's how we grow. Follow the Pod Linkedin: X: Instagram: @podconvergence /episode/index/show/0c4e24e4-35d3-41eb-a68b-e059cd1d4dcb/id/35303165

Best of 2024: Mastering Intentional Leadership and Building a Winning Culture in Product Teams 01/28/2025

Best of 2024: Mastering Intentional Leadership and Building a Winning Culture in Product Teams Discover the strategies and stories behind the most innovative product teams of 2024, where intentional leadership and a vibrant culture are the foundations of success. This special episode features insights from renowned tech leaders and product visionaries, including Ben Foster, co-founder of Prodigy Group and former Chief Product Officer at a leading fitness wearable company, who emphasizes the power of communicating an inspiring product vision to unify and energize teams. Farhan Thawar, Head of Engineering at Shopify, shares how writing and critical thinking drive alignment and scale in one of the most cerebral and innovative organizations. Janice Fraser, a veteran of TaskRabbit and Netscape, introduces actionable leadership frameworks like the "two-meeting model" to foster durable decision-making and team commitment. Jose Moreno, former Netflix engineer, sheds light on the company’s "context over control" philosophy and how it empowers teams to deliver billions in value. Deepika Yerragunta, Head of Platform Products at PepsiCo, shares her unique approach to hiring product managers, emphasizing the importance of curiosity, active listening, and ruthless prioritization, while revealing how her fresh perspective as an outsider has driven transformative innovation in traditional industries. Whether it’s structuring communication, hiring and training exceptional product managers, or building an empowering culture rooted in collaboration and diversity, this episode offers powerful lessons to help entrepreneurs and product leaders level up their organizations. Don’t miss the chance to learn from the best and apply these transformative strategies to your own product teams. In this episode... How to communicate inspiring product visions that energize teams The role of writing in driving alignment and innovation Leadership frameworks for making durable decisions Expert tips on hiring and training top-performing product managers Mentioned in this episode... Shopify’s engineering playbook: Netflix Culture Deck: https://jobs.netflix.com/culture Barbara Minto's SCQA Framework: https://modelthinkers.com/mental-model/minto-pyramid-scqa Unlock the full potential of your product team with Integral's player coaches, experts in lean, human-centered design. Visit integral.io/convergence for a free Product Success Lab workshop to gain clarity and confidence in tackling any product design or engineering challenge. Subscribe to the Convergence podcast wherever you get podcasts including video episodes to get updated on the other crucial conversations that we'll post on YouTube at youtube.com/@convergencefmpodcast Learn something? Give us a 5 star review and like the podcast on YouTube. It's how we grow. Follow the Pod Linkedin: X: Instagram: @podconvergence /episode/index/show/0c4e24e4-35d3-41eb-a68b-e059cd1d4dcb/id/35018530

Best of 2024 - Derisking and Evolving on your OKR (Objectives and Key Results) Implementation 01/15/2025

Best of 2024 - Derisking and Evolving on your OKR (Objectives and Key Results) Implementation From Intel's engineering labs to Silicon Valley's unicorns, OKRs (Objectives and Key Results) have transformed how tech companies translate vision into measurable outcomes. But what separates successful OKR implementations from failed experiments? And how can technology leaders avoid the common pitfalls that derail even well-intentioned rollouts? In this episode, we dive deep with leaders who've shaped OKR practices at some of tech's most influential companies. Our guests Josh Seiden, Holly Bielawa, and Deepika Yerragunta share battle-tested insights from their experiences at Intel, Amazon, Google, and beyond. The episode compiles the best segments around getting started on your OKR journey, de-risking and iterating your rollout, and our guests’ tips on self-checking the health of your OKR implementation. Whether you're launching your first OKR initiative or iterating on an existing framework, you'll learn practical strategies for cascading objectives across teams while maintaining strategic alignment. Our conversation includes war stories from the field, as well as intuitive insights on what actually works: fostering genuine collaboration, maintaining human centricity, and achieving the elusive balance between ambition and accountability. Inside the episode... Why OKRs are a powerful alternative to traditional goal-setting frameworks. How OKRs promote collaboration and alignment across all levels of an organization. Best practices for implementing OKRs: starting small, iterating, and setting clear priorities. Tips for integrating OKRs into your product teams using human-centered design principles. Differentiating between business OKRs and product OKRs to avoid organizational misalignment. How to set and measure strategic objectives with actionable, customer-centric key results. Lessons learned from failed and successful OKR implementations, including war stories from the field. The role of product operations in making data accessible for measuring OKR progress. Why tying OKRs to compensation or promotions can derail the intent of the framework. Mentioned in this episode Convergence Episodes featured Unlock the full potential of your product team with Integral's player coaches, experts in lean, human-centered design. Visit integral.io/convergence for a free Product Success Lab workshop to gain clarity and confidence in tackling any product design or engineering challenge. Subscribe to the Convergence podcast wherever you get podcasts including video episodes to get updated on the other crucial conversations that we'll post on YouTube at youtube.com/@convergencefmpodcast Learn something? Give us a 5 star review and like the podcast on YouTube. It's how we grow. Follow the Pod Linkedin: X: Instagram: @podconvergence /episode/index/show/0c4e24e4-35d3-41eb-a68b-e059cd1d4dcb/id/34872110

Best of 2024: Top Insights on Developer Tools, APIs, SDKs, and Creating Exceptional DevX 12/31/2024

Best of 2024: Top Insights on Developer Tools, APIs, SDKs, and Creating Exceptional DevX We compiled our favorite clips on developer tools and developer experience (DevX). We discuss why DevX has become essential for developer-focused companies and how it drives adoption to grow your product. Learn what makes developers a unique and discerning customer base, and hear practical strategies for designing exceptional tools and platforms. Our guests also share lessons learned from their own experiences—whether in creating frictionless integrations, maintaining a strong feedback culture, or enabling internal platform adoption. Through compelling stories and actionable advice, this episode is packed with lessons on how to build products that developers love. Playlist of Full Episodes from This Compilation: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL31JETR9AR0FV-46VR4G_n6xi4WdXEx-2 Inside the episode... The importance of developer experience and why it’s a priority for developer-facing companies. Key differences between building developer tools and end-user applications. How DevX differs from DevRel and the synergy between the two. Metrics for measuring the success of developer tools: adoption, satisfaction, and revenue. Insights into abstraction ladders and balancing complexity and power. Customer research strategies for validating assumptions and prioritizing features. Stripe’s culture of craftsmanship and creating “surprisingly great” experiences. The importance of dogfooding and feedback loops in building trusted platforms. Balancing enablement and avoiding gatekeeping in internal platform adoption. Maintaining consistency and quality across APIs, CLIs, and other resources. Mentioned in this episode Unlock the full potential of your product team with Integral's player coaches, experts in lean, human-centered design. Visit integral.io/convergence for a free Product Success Lab workshop to gain clarity and confidence in tackling any product design or engineering challenge. Subscribe to the Convergence podcast wherever you get podcasts including video episodes to get updated on the other crucial conversations that we'll post on YouTube at youtube.com/@convergencefmpodcast Learn something? Give us a 5 star review and like the podcast on YouTube. It's how we grow. Follow the Pod Linkedin: X: Instagram: @podconvergence /episode/index/show/0c4e24e4-35d3-41eb-a68b-e059cd1d4dcb/id/34654750

The Future of AI in Production: Our Best Advice for Entrepreneurs and Developers 12/24/2024

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