Convergence.fm
Welcome to the Convergence podcast! I'm Ashok Sivanand and I've created the Convergence podcast to help you build the most engaged product teams who can ship the most successful products. My passion for products and timing stems from a combination of my working in Japanese manufacturing, building IoT software products for lean manufacturers, and working at industry powerhouses in product like Pivotal Labs. This passion led to founding Integral in 2017, a product engineering consultancy that enables our clients to harness technology to develop better products, grow their revenue streams, and enable new business models. We've had the pleasure to collaborate with brands like Ford, Honda, Rocket Mortgage, Airstream, and Bosch to enable their teams and build some amazing products in artificial intelligence, cloud, mobile, and web. On the Convergence podcast, I'll be speaking with industry leaders, as well as sharing insights from my team on deconstructing the best practices, principles, and philosophies that lead to building the best product teams. If you're a chief product officer, a chief technology officer, or a VP of engineering, or you're growing towards one of those roles, I highly recommend you subscribe to the Convergence Podcast and get some of the insights that will help you lead your product teams and enable them to consistently ideate, validate and ship products that your customers love. Products that will help you grow your business. Thanks a lot for listening.
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Speed to Value, Solving a $200K Warehouse Problem With AI in 3 Days
01/22/2026
Speed to Value, Solving a $200K Warehouse Problem With AI in 3 Days
In this episode, I walk through a real, high-stakes moment inside a warehousing and logistics operation, thousands of pallets of telecom cable, a hard year-end deadline, and a task nobody actually owned. The team was facing a potential six-figure hit, measuring precious metal content by hand with clipboards and micrometers, under serious time pressure. During a simple office hours session, we paused, reframed the problem, and realized this wasn’t a labor issue at all. It was a vision problem. What followed was a fast, scrappy sprint. Sales, warehouse staff, and engineers worked side by side. We prototyped, tested, and shipped a vision-based AI system in days, not months. Using lightweight tooling, we cut monthly costs by more than $150K, improved measurement accuracy, and delivered a working solution in under 72 hours. If you’re skeptical about what “good enough” AI can actually do in the real world, this story is a clean proof point Visit and contact us for to schedule your own office hours and get clarity and confidence tackling your toughest product and engineering challenges. Inside the episode… A logistics company’s urgent copper-measurement problem with no clear owner The hidden cost and inefficiency of manually measuring more than 5,000 pallets How a single office hours conversation reframed the problem as a vision-AI opportunity Training a custom vision model using pallet photos and simple index cards Rapid prototyping with automation and vision tooling to ship in days Over $150K in cost savings and a dramatically better experience for warehouse teams Why involving frontline workers accelerated adoption and improved feedback loops Letting go of perfection and embracing statistically “good enough” outcomes What this teaches us about speed, trust, and momentum through small wins Where this approach goes next and why similar teams should be paying attention Mentioned in this episode n8n (automation platform) Roboflow (vision model training) ChatGPT (image and text analysis) OpenAI API Subscribe to the Convergence podcast wherever you listen, and catch video episodes on YouTube at youtube.com/@convergencefmpodcast. If this was useful, leave a five-star review and like the show on YouTube. That’s how we grow. Note: Visuals in the video form of this episode were generated by AI (Gemini) as the originals are sensitive and confidential to our customer and their staff.
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Product Discovery, Outcome Based Delivery, And Hiring for Product Thinking with MAC of Wednesday.is
01/11/2026
Product Discovery, Outcome Based Delivery, And Hiring for Product Thinking with MAC of Wednesday.is
Is your team writing code before they’ve actually validated the problem? In this episode, Ashok sits down with Mohammed Ali Cherwala (MAC), co-founder of Wednesday Solutions, to dismantle the traditional "build first" mentality. Mac explains why "Product Engineering" is distinct from simple software development and how his firm uses "Sprint Zero" to validate ideas cheaply using methods like fake door tests and prototypes—ensuring you don't waste capital on features nobody wants. We also dive into a radical business model shift: moving from hourly billing to outcome-based pricing, where clients pay for moved metrics rather than hours worked. Mac shares how this aligns incentives and reduces founder burn. Plus, we explore how hiring has evolved in the age of AI, why "framework thinking" beats instinct for Product Managers, and real-world examples of using on-prem LLMs to automate compliance and QA at scale. In this episode: Sprint Zero: How to use discovery sprints to validate business gaps before building. Outcome-Based Pricing: Why charging for results is better than charging for time. Hiring with AI: A new interview simulation to spot engineers who think like product owners. Automating Quality: How defining "what good looks like" enables AI agents to take over manual QA. The "Ocean's 11" Team: A metaphor for building high-trust, specialist teams. Mentioned in this episode... Wednesday Solutions: Mac’s product engineering firm. Books: The Mom Test, Continuous Discovery Habits. Tools: Gemini Bot, Code Rabbit, PostHog, Clarity, Testim, Keploy, Fathom, PRDkit.ai. Service: Urban Company (InstaHelp). Unlock the full potential of your product team with Integral's player coaches, experts in lean, human-centered design. Visit integral.io/convergence for a free Product Success Lab workshop to gain clarity and confidence in tackling any product design or engineering challenge. Subscribe to the Convergence podcast wherever you get podcasts including video episodes to get updated on the other crucial conversations that we'll post on YouTube at youtube.com/@convergencefmpodcast Learn something? Give us a 5 star review and like the podcast on YouTube. It's how we grow. Follow the Pod Linkedin: X: Instagram: @podconvergence
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BUILD vs. BUY: The Software Math That Saved A CEO Millions
01/08/2026
BUILD vs. BUY: The Software Math That Saved A CEO Millions
Are you stuck deciding between building custom software or buying an expensive SaaS solution? In this episode, Ashok breaks down a real-world workshop with a medical device CEO facing a costly operational bottleneck. You’ll learn how to size problems effectively to ensure they are worth the tech investment and why "renting" software might actually be the fastest path to owning your own high-value IP. Ashok challenges the common "tech-enabled" playbook—hiring a C-suite CTO immediately—and offers a leaner alternative: the "In-House Prototyper." Discover how using AI tools and low-code platforms can help you validate business value before committing to expensive development. Whether you are navigating compliance-heavy industries or just trying to improve EBITDA, this episode provides a tactical framework for negotiation, sequencing, and strategic capital allocation. Unlock the full potential of your product team with Integral's player coaches, experts in lean, human-centered design. Visit integral.io/convergence for a free Product Success Lab workshop to gain clarity and confidence in tackling any product design or engineering challenge. In this episode: Build vs. Buy Math: How to calculate the break-even point for custom software. The "Sandbox Pilot": How to negotiate a 1-month trial instead of a 12-month lock-in. Strategic Sequencing: Why you should "rent to learn" before you build to own. The Prototyper Role: A high-leverage alternative to hiring a full-time CTO. Problem Sizing: Identifying problems that compound with growth vs. those that vanish. Mentioned in this episode: Prototyping Tools: Lovable, Bolt, Replit, Vibe Coding. Workflow Automation: N8N, Langflow Subscribe to the Convergence podcast wherever you get podcasts including video episodes to get updated on the other crucial conversations that we'll post on YouTube at youtube.com/@convergencefmpodcast Learn something? Give us a 5 star review and like the podcast on YouTube. It's how we grow. Follow the Pod Linkedin: X: Instagram: @podconvergence
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Why Smart Companies Fail: Information Asymmetry Explained
12/24/2025
Why Smart Companies Fail: Information Asymmetry Explained
Why do smart leadership teams with great strategies still fail to execute? The answer often isn't a lack of talent, but a hidden structural problem called Information Asymmetry. In this episode, host Ashok Sivanand breaks down a real-world case study of a CEO (Visionary) and COO (Integrator) who trusted each other implicitly but still struggled to drive change. You’ll learn why "scaling efficiency" often comes at the cost of "scaling understanding," and how to fix the gap between your boardroom strategy and your frontline reality. Ashok explores how world-class organizations like Toyota, Amazon, and Shopify use specific tools to bridge this gap, enabling their teams to make faster, decentralized decisions. If you feel like your team is constantly waiting on you for permission, or if you're constantly surprised by bad outcomes, this episode offers the tactical framework you need to build a high-context culture. Unlock the full potential of your product team with Integral's player coaches, experts in lean, human-centered design. Visit integral.io/convergence for a free Product Success Lab workshop to gain clarity and confidence in tackling any product design or engineering challenge. In this episode: Information Asymmetry: What it is and why it kills speed. The 3 Missing Links: Why you must share Assumptions, Early Measurements, and Feedback requests. Decks vs. Docs: Why Amazon’s 6-page memos beat slide decks for strategy. The Andon Cord: How Toyota empowers frontline workers to stop the line. Talent Retention: Why admitting uncertainty helps you keep your best employees. Mentioned in this episode: Rocket Fuel: (Book on Visionary/Integrator leadership models). Toyota: The "Andon Board" system. Shopify: Their use of MCP (Model Context Protocol) servers for internal knowledge. Amazon: The 6-page memo culture. Integral: Product success labs and consulting. Subscribe to the Convergence podcast wherever you get podcasts including video episodes to get updated on the other crucial conversations that we'll post on YouTube at youtube.com/@convergencefmpodcast Learn something? Give us a 5 star review and like the podcast on YouTube. It's how we grow. Follow the Pod Linkedin: X: Instagram: @podconvergence
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From Fortune 50 Strategy to AI Coaching Tools: Ben Perreau on Leading Better
12/17/2025
From Fortune 50 Strategy to AI Coaching Tools: Ben Perreau on Leading Better
Ben Perreau has helped CEOs of some of the world’s most influential companies define their next act. But instead of staying in the boardroom, he turned his attention to the managers on the front lines, the people who quietly make or break culture every day. In this episode, Ben joins Ashok to talk about why so many managers feel underprepared, how culture actually changes, and how his latest venture, Parafoil, is using psycholinguistics and AI to build better leaders in real time. From navigating billion dollar strategy shifts to coaching individual managers through difficult feedback conversations, Ben shares a wide ranging perspective on leadership, self-awareness, and the small but powerful rituals that shape great teams. Whether you're a CEO, a first-time manager, or considering your next step, this conversation will change how you think about leadership and how to measure it. Unlock the full potential of your product team with Integral's player coaches, experts in lean, human-centered design. Visit integral.io/convergence for a free Product Success Lab workshop to gain clarity and confidence in tackling any product design or engineering challenge. Inside the episode... Why most culture change doesn’t start at the top, it starts with managers The massive training gap: 82% of managers feel underprepared The key differences between leadership, management, coaching, and mentorship How Parafoil uses psycholinguistics to help managers understand themselves and their teams What makes great CEOs different (hint: it’s not just decision-making) Why “I,” “you,” and “we” in conversation say more than you think Concrete ways to measure leadership effectiveness and improve it The ethics of building AI for human development How organizations can avoid stagnation by rethinking their management layer Why the Beatles are a model for creative, high-performing teams Mentioned in this episode: Parafoil (https://parafoil.co) SY Partners Netflix personalization algorithms James Pennebaker and psycholinguistics Remarkable Paper Tablet Stanford d.school IDEO Google X Howard Schultz’s investment firm MITI framework (Motivational Interviewing) (referenced implicitly in style) Unlock the full potential of your product team with Integral's player coaches, experts in lean, human-centered design. Visit integral.io/convergence for a free Product Success Lab workshop to gain clarity and confidence in tackling any product design or engineering challenge. Subscribe to the Convergence podcast wherever you get podcasts including video episodes to get updated on the other crucial conversations that we'll post on YouTube at youtube.com/@convergencefmpodcast Learn something? Give us a 5 star review and like the podcast on YouTube. It's how we grow. Follow the Pod Linkedin: X: Instagram: @podconvergence
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Stop Installing Copilot: The Real Way to Lead an AI Transformation in ANY Business
12/10/2025
Stop Installing Copilot: The Real Way to Lead an AI Transformation in ANY Business
Learn how a garbage collection company saved millions by adopting AI without a tech team or a massive budget. This episode deconstructs how traditional businesses can bypass expensive $100k software contracts by using local devices and open-source models to generate massive ROI safely and quickly. Watch our full episode with Ryan Collins of Tahoe Truckee Sierra Disposal: Unlock the full potential of your product team with Integral's player coaches, experts in lean, human-centered design. Visit integral.io/convergence for a free Product Success Lab workshop to gain clarity and confidence in tackling any product design or engineering challenge. If you are a leader waiting for your IT department to "handle AI," you are falling behind. We discuss why installing Copilot isn't a strategy and why leadership must break the apathy "Catch-22" by getting hands-on. From identifying the "rebels" on your team who will drive innovation to "vibe coding" solutions for under $100, this is a blueprint for practical, low-cost AI adoption. In this episode: The Blue Collar Unlock: How non-tech workforces are using AI to solve complex problems. Leadership Strategy: How to spot internal innovators and build a "Wins and Losses" culture. Myth-busting: Why you don't need in-house experts to start today. Mentioned in this episode: Ryan Collins: Managing Director of a California garbage collection company. Tools: ChatGPT, Claude, Microsoft Copilot. Subscribe to the Convergence podcast wherever you get podcasts including video episodes to get updated on the other crucial conversations that we'll post on YouTube at youtube.com/@convergencefmpodcast Learn something? Give us a 5 star review and like the podcast on YouTube. It's how we grow. Follow the Pod Linkedin: X: Instagram: @podconvergence
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Turning Trash into Tech: The Garbage Company Using AI to Save Millions with Ryan Collins
12/04/2025
Turning Trash into Tech: The Garbage Company Using AI to Save Millions with Ryan Collins
Ryan Collins calls himself a garbage man, but he's also the Managing Director at Tahoe Truckee Sierra Disposal (TTSD), a third-generation waste collection and recycling company in Northern California. After a stint in Silicon Valley, he came back to join the family business and walked into a world still powered by slide rulers, highlighters, and paper-heavy workflows. Today, his team is building in-house AI tools that are replacing expensive software and solving real operational problems across the business — all with a lean budget, limited tech experience, and a workforce that now regularly pitches their own automation ideas. We talk through how this transformation actually happened. Starting with Excel and a problem-first mindset, Ryan’s weekend vibe coding projects grew into a full-on tech capability at TTSD. From saving $30,000 a year with a $75 microcontroller to avoiding six-figure SaaS spends with local AI tools, this episode is packed with practical stories. We also get into the risks of overengineering, how to decide when to bring in real software engineers, and what hiring looks like when you're prioritizing attitude and curiosity over resumes. If you're looking to build a culture of innovation, even in a non-tech industry, this one is worth a listen. Unlock the full potential of your product team with Integral's player coaches, experts in lean, human-centered design. Visit for a free Product Success Lab workshop to gain clarity and confidence in tackling any product design or engineering challenge. Inside the episode... Why even garbage truck drivers are suggesting AI tools now How Ryan turned Excel and a tinkering mindset into a culture of problem solving A $75 hardware build that fixed a $30,000-a-year proble Why vibe coding is addictive and how they stay focused on what matters Building in-house AI tools with Whisper, Mistral, and Claude Replacing a $120,000/year call center SaaS with a local tool running on a $2,000 PC How they protect customer data while still using AI internally When to keep iterating and when to bring in a developer What Ryan looks for in tech hires (and why resumes often don’t matter) Using AI to bridge the language gap across a mostly Spanish-speaking workforce Mentioned in this episode ESP32 microcontrollers OpenAI Whisper (local speech-to-text) Mistral (local open source LLM) Claude by Anthropic 11Labs (AI voice translation) Google Maps API Upwork Cursor Excel, VBA, Python Pandas Alpha fold Raptor engine at spaceX Stuff Matters: Exploring the Marvelous Materials That Shape Our Man-Made World by Mark Miodownik Unlock the full potential of your product team with Integral's player coaches, experts in lean, human-centered design. Visit integral.io/convergence for a free Product Success Lab workshop to gain clarity and confidence in tackling any product design or engineering challenge. Subscribe to the Convergence podcast wherever you get podcasts including video episodes to get updated on the other crucial conversations that we'll post on YouTube at youtube.com/@convergencefmpodcast Learn something? Give us a 5 star review and like the podcast on YouTube. It's how we grow. Follow the Pod Linkedin: X: Instagram: @podconvergence
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Building Global Culture for Purpose and Profit: Lessons from Scaling Twitter with Maya Hari
11/21/2025
Building Global Culture for Purpose and Profit: Lessons from Scaling Twitter with Maya Hari
In this episode, Ashok is joined by Maya Hari, global executive, board member, and now co-founder of Genie Health. Maya has led teams across Twitter, Google, Samsung, and other global companies, and now sits on the boards of public enterprises like Saint-Gobain. What makes her perspective rare isn't just her resume. It's her clarity around what culture really is, how to measure it, and how to build it intentionally. Maya shares the three signals she uses to assess culture inside a company, how she assembles high-performing, cohesive teams, and why purpose is at the core of sustainable culture. She also speaks candidly about what emotional safety looks like in leadership, including real stories of crying at work, what she calls "cry counts," and how vulnerability, when authentic, is a leadership superpower. Whether you’re scaling, transforming, or turning around a team, Maya offers guidance on what kind of CEO you need to be and how to figure that out for yourself. Unlock the full potential of your product team with Integral's player coaches, experts in lean, human-centered design. Visit for a free Product Success Lab workshop to gain clarity and confidence in tackling any product design or engineering challenge. Inside the episode... What makes culture “good” and why it’s never accidental The three metrics Maya uses to evaluate company culture Purpose as the root of culture (and why it doesn’t have to be altruistic) How vulnerability in leadership fosters trust and prevents burnout “Cry count”: what crying at work says about psychological safety The difference between wartime and peacetime CEOs and how to know which you are Why some leaders thrive in transformation while others thrive in growth How Maya thinks about hiring cultural glue in early teams What she looks for in CEOs during board interviews Co-founding a startup with your spouse and how to put up healthy guardrails Genie Health’s mission to empower consumers with agency over their health Why coding with AI is blowing open product development for startups Mentioned in this episode Genie Health Twitter Shazam EOS (Entrepreneurial Operating System) Gino Wickman (from Shed & Shine podcast) Subscribe to the Convergence podcast wherever you get podcasts including video episodes on YouTube at Learn something? Give us a 5-star review and like the podcast on YouTube. It’s how we grow. Subscribe to the Convergence podcast wherever you get podcasts including video episodes to get updated on the other crucial conversations that we'll post on YouTube at youtube.com/@convergencefmpodcast Learn something? Give us a 5 star review and like the podcast on YouTube. It's how we grow. Follow the Pod Linkedin: X: Instagram: @podconvergence
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Top 5 Mistakes Leaders Make in AI & Data Strategy, And How to Fix Them with David Cohen
11/13/2025
Top 5 Mistakes Leaders Make in AI & Data Strategy, And How to Fix Them with David Cohen
Leaders are under pressure to “do something with AI,” but many end up making the same preventable mistakes that derail their data strategy before it starts. In this episode, Ashok sits down with David Cohen, founder of Superposition Strategy, to run a live workshop identifying the top five strategic missteps leaders make—and more importantly, how to avoid them. If you're leading or supporting a data or AI initiative, this episode is your tactical blueprint for getting it right. You’ll hear David walk through an interactive exercise designed to prioritize problems and focus on high-impact solutions. Together, he and Ashok unpack real-world examples from highly regulated industries, debate the role of data as a profit center, and share facilitation tactics that help teams speak up and make better decisions. Whether you’re drowning in stakeholder expectations or trying to build buy-in, you’ll walk away with actionable strategies to make your AI and data efforts more resilient—and more effective. Unlock the full potential of your product team with Integral's player coaches, experts in lean, human-centered design. Visit for a free Product Success Lab workshop to gain clarity and confidence in tackling any product design or engineering challenge. Inside the episode... The 5 most common mistakes leaders make in AI and data strategy Why “no leadership buy-in” is the #1 killer of data initiatives The power of divergent thinking in early-stage problem framing What leaders get wrong about experimentation and timelines Real examples from healthcare, finance, and automotive sectors Why facilitation tools like silent brainstorming and dot voting matter How governance can unlock innovation—if you start early The hidden advantage small consultancies have with AI Using structured workshops to create shared understanding and focus Mentioned in this episode LEGO Build Together sets Ford Labs, 99P Labs, Capital One Labs (innovation labs examples) Facilitation techniques (dot voting, silent ideation, Roman voting) David’s Linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/davcohen06/ David’s company: https://www.superpositionstrat.com/ Superposition’s youtube channel: https://www.youtube.com/@Superpositionstrat Subscribe to the Convergence podcast wherever you get podcasts, including video episodes on YouTube at Learn something? Give us a 5 star review and like the podcast on YouTube. It's how we grow.
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De-risking AI-enabled Business Models with Lean Thinking
10/29/2025
De-risking AI-enabled Business Models with Lean Thinking
In this episode, Ashok shares a story from a long established services company with a big vision for transformation. The leadership team set their sights on launching a new AI enabled membership business. The original plan involved technology, acquisitions, and a long wait before revenue or even a customer touchpoint. Instead of waiting nine months to learn whether the idea would land, they adopted a lean and human centered approach that created clarity and momentum in weeks. Ashok walks through how they reduced risk, accelerated learning, and positioned the business for success without gambling its future. What You Will Learn • How to de risk technology and AI initiatives before large capital commitments • How your sales/field team can be a valuable source of insights • Practical ways to bring field teams into the innovation process • How to measure progress without waiting months for revenue or adoption • A repeatable approach for CEOs to test assumptions and move with confidence This episode is designed for CEOs and operators of traditional businesses with ambitions to create new revenue streams through technology, AI, or subscription models. Do not build based on hope. Validate with customers first, sell early, and build only the parts that prove necessary. Subscribe to the Convergence podcast wherever you get podcasts including video episodes to get updated on the other crucial conversations that we'll post on YouTube at youtube.com/@convergencefmpodcast Learn something? Give us a 5 star review and like the podcast on YouTube. It's how we grow. Follow the Pod Linkedin: X: Instagram: @podconvergence
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Preparing Your Company for AI: Cultural Values and Principles You NEED Before You Make Big Changes
10/23/2025
Preparing Your Company for AI: Cultural Values and Principles You NEED Before You Make Big Changes
Learn the best culture secrets from top tech companies! Guest Farhan Thawar of Shopify shares powerful principles—from "Responsibility vs. Accountability" to "Subtraction"—that CEOs in any industry can use to build elite teams. You've heard the AI hype, but what about the culture that builds it or integrates it well? Successful tech companies run on foundational values that are just as applicable to construction, manufacturing, or logistics. This episode deconstructs counter-intuitive ideas that can help you foster a more intentional, cohesive, and innovative culture. Learn why you should demo work at 20%, why "certainty is intolerance" and why leaders must not be afraid to look stupid. Unlock the full potential of your product team with Integral's player coaches, experts in lean, human-centered design. Visit integral.io/convergence for a free Product Success Lab workshop to gain clarity and confidence in tackling any product design or engineering challenge. In this episode: Responsibility vs. Accountability: Why one is taken and the other is just "what's left". Certainty is Intolerance: How a growth mindset prevents you from getting stuck. Demoing at 20%: Using the "Five Minute Model" to get feedback early and avoid sunk costs. Subtraction: The leader's job of deleting complexity and process. Hiring "AI-Native" Interns: Why junior talent is a strategic advantage, not charity. Mentioned in this episode... Shopify Alpha School Cloudflare Brené Brown Subscribe to the Convergence podcast wherever you get podcasts including video episodes to get updated on the other crucial conversations that we'll post on YouTube at youtube.com/@convergencefmpodcast Learn something? Give us a 5 star review and like the podcast on YouTube. It's how we grow. Follow the Pod Linkedin: X: Instagram: @podconvergence
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How Shopify Stays on the Bleeding Edge: AI, Culture, and Operating Like You’ll Be Relevant in 20 Years (with Head of Engineering, Farhan Thawar)
10/16/2025
How Shopify Stays on the Bleeding Edge: AI, Culture, and Operating Like You’ll Be Relevant in 20 Years (with Head of Engineering, Farhan Thawar)
In this episode of Convergence.fm, Ashok Sivanand sits down with Farhan Thawar, Head of Engineering at Shopify, to go behind the scenes of how Shopify not only keeps pace with rapid change but leads it. The discussion explores how Shopify became one of the first platforms to allow merchants to sell products directly inside ChatGPT, why that move challenges Amazon’s dominance, and what it takes to build a company that learns faster than it fails. Farhan explains the systems that make being first repeatable rather than accidental, including Shopify’s internal LLM proxy, MCP servers, experimentation culture, and democratized tooling. If you are a CEO, COO, or CTO looking to scale through culture, systems, and intentional technology adoption, this episode shows what it looks like to operate with conviction and long-term relevance. Key Topics and Moments: Shopify and OpenAI’s commerce integration. The same day OpenAI enabled in-chat shopping, Shopify merchants were already live. Farhan explains what it takes for a company of Shopify’s size to move with that kind of speed Competing with Amazon through culture, not size. Shopify has 3,000 engineers compared to Amazon’s 35,000+, yet continues to outpace bigger players by focusing on coherence, focus, and empowered execution rather than bureaucracy and scale. The meaning behind Tobi Lütke’s April AI memo. Farhan discusses how Shopify operationalized its “AI is non-optional” stance, what baseline expectations look like, and how performance is evaluated in an AI-native organization. AI reflexivity and the “three buckets.” Farhan explains how teams are taught to recognize “AI not allowed,” “AI optional,” and “AI mandatory” problems so that employees develop instinct for when to reach for AI — and when to pick up the screwdriver. The risk of ‘vibe coding’ and why hand tools still matter. Farhan shares lessons from real incidents inside and outside Shopify, like the Cloudflare outage caused by unreviewed AI-generated code, and how engineering leaders teach judgment, not just prompting. The LLM Proxy and MCP Servers. Inside look at how Shopify democratized AI across departments by building an internal platform that connects all major models and corporate data sources, enabling every employee to build workflows and ask intelligent questions — not just engineers. AI budgeting vs. SaaS budgeting. Farhan explains why AI usage isn’t treated like traditional SaaS spend and how Shopify encourages heavy experimentation by rewarding impact rather than punishing token consumption. Experimentation as a system. How teams are encouraged to show work at 20%, not 80%, and why the speed of learning, not perfection, is the true productivity metric. Subtraction as leadership. Farhan shares how founders and executives must delete outdated processes, rules, and layers of bureaucracy to make room for new ideas — why process should only exist if it makes something possible or 10x better. Hiring and growing AI-native talent. Why Shopify doubled down on internships, hiring 1,000 interns this year and next, and how younger engineers push full-timers to stay current by being born AI-native “centaurs.” Responsibility versus accountability. Why leaders can delegate tasks but not responsibility, and how to stay in the work without disempowering the team. Certainty as intolerance. Farhan’s reflection on why overconfidence kills creativity, and how leaders can replace fixed beliefs with wayfinding, curiosity, and adaptive decision-making. Rapid-fire reflections for CEOs. Ashok and Farhan close with lessons on showing unfinished work, modeling curiosity, and removing friction as a cultural operating system. Who Should Listen: Mid-market CEOs, COOs, and CTOs building adaptable organizations that can scale. Leaders focused on culture and transformation, not just technology adoption. Operators who want to apply product thinking and modern software practices to traditional industries. Notable Quotes: “We have a baseline expectation of using AI. If you have two people, one using AI and one not, they will both be evaluated the same.” – Farhan Thawar on AI usage expectations “We don’t like waste, but we don’t have limits. If you believe in your workflow, use the best model for your problem solving.” – Farhan Thawar on AI token cost and consumption “You can now buy directly in chat from Shopify merchants. That is a major shift in how people discover and buy online.” – Ashok Sivanand on Shopify launching all their merchants on ChatGPT’s Shop feature on the very day it was launched Related Reading and References: Shopify Blog: Shopify and OpenAI bring commerce to ChatGPT (official announcement) - Reuters: OpenAI partners with Shopify, Stripe, and others to expand ChatGPT integrations - TechCrunch: Inside Tobi Lütke’s AI Memo and Shopify’s Cultural Shift - Farhan’s opinions about token consumption - Farhan’s article about “looking stupid”- The Convergence.fm first episode with Farhan in 2024 - The Convergence.fm Episode about Tobi Lütke’s leaked AI memo mandate, and our 6 takeaways - Tobi’s memo Tweet - Unreasonable Hospitality (book) - Farhan’s Twitter (public handle) - Reflection and Action Steps: Start with your mission. Before choosing tools, clarify what problem you are solving and what your business stands for. Enable your team. Ask whether you are removing barriers or creating them. Are employees empowered to experiment? Model the change. Use AI tools yourself. Share your learnings, wins, and failures openly. F Foster learning. Consider introducing internal forums or “thinking clubs” that encourage curiosity and reflection across your team.
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Your AI Vibe Coding Side Project: Hobby or High-Growth Business? (5 Tests)
10/09/2025
Your AI Vibe Coding Side Project: Hobby or High-Growth Business? (5 Tests)
AI-powered "vibe coding" makes it easier than ever to turn your imagination into a working app, but are you building a fun hobby or a viable business? The line is blurring, and many creators are confusing the joy of building with the traction needed for a real startup. This episode provides a framework to help you distinguish between a passion project and a profitable venture, outlining the mindset and practical steps needed to turn a promising idea into a sustainable business. Learn how to avoid the common pitfalls of the "fast fashion era of software" and build something with lasting value. Unlock the full potential of your product team with Integral's player coaches, experts in lean, human-centered design. Visit integral.io/convergence for a free Product Success Lab workshop to gain clarity and confidence in tackling any product design or engineering challenge. In this episode: The Fast Fashion Era of Software: What this new era, fueled by AI, means for builders and why it's both amazing and dangerous. Hobby vs. Hustle: How to define your intention and why it’s the most critical first step before you continue building. 5 Foundational Lessons: A deep dive into five actionable principles, including customer discovery, the "Build, Measure, Learn" loop, and ruthless prioritization to transition your project from a hobby to a business. Think Beyond the Code: Learn why you must stop polishing your prototype and start validating your market with real people who have the problem you're solving. Mentioned in this episode... Companies & Products: Replit, Lovable.dev, Cursor, RoomGPT, Intuit TurboTax, Betty Crocker Books: The Lean Startup, The Mom Test Subscribe to the Convergence podcast wherever you get podcasts including video episodes to get updated on the other crucial conversations that we'll post on YouTube at youtube.com/@convergencefmpodcast Learn something? Give us a 5 star review and like the podcast on YouTube. It's how we grow. Follow the Pod Linkedin: X: Instagram: @podconvergence
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AI Strategy That Actually Works: From Startup to Spotify to Search Fund with Tommy Högström
10/01/2025
AI Strategy That Actually Works: From Startup to Spotify to Search Fund with Tommy Högström
AI strategist Tommy Högström, who has guided giants like Spotify, H&M, and McDonald's, reveals the truth about implementing AI, scaling product teams, and the entrepreneurial journey. From founding his own AI consultancy in Sweden to leading financial forecasting at Spotify and now launching a search fund to acquire a software business, Tommy offers a rare look inside the strategic shifts that separate hype from reality. This episode explores the tough transition from services to product, the evolution of Spotify's famous agile culture, and how to build data infrastructure that actually scales. Unlock the full potential of your product team with Integral's player coaches, experts in lean, human-centered design. Visit integral.io/convergence for a free Product Success Lab workshop to gain clarity and confidence in tackling any product design or engineering challenge. In this episode: The Spotify Model, Unfiltered: Learn how Spotify's culture and priorities shifted dramatically when its focus changed from pure user growth to profitability, and what that means for agile teams at scale. Services vs. Product: Tommy breaks down the conflicting incentives between short-term consulting revenue and long-term product value, and why he ultimately sold his shares in the company he founded. AI Isn't Magic, It's Data: Discover why you might need four data engineers for every data scientist and why thinking of AI as just an "IT project" is the biggest mistake companies make. The Search Fund Path: An inside look at the search fund model, where entrepreneurs raise capital to buy an existing profitable business and scale it as the new CEO. Mentioned in this episode: Gab AI Xego AI 1Password Tommy's LinkedIn: Subscribe to the Convergence podcast wherever you get podcasts including video episodes to get updated on the other crucial conversations that we'll post on YouTube at youtube.com/@convergencefmpodcast Learn something? Give us a 5 star review and like the podcast on YouTube. It's how we grow. Follow the Pod Linkedin: X: Instagram: @podconvergence
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Fix Your Broken Delivery Engine: A Case Study in AI Creativity, Agile and Vendor Management
09/24/2025
Fix Your Broken Delivery Engine: A Case Study in AI Creativity, Agile and Vendor Management
A company spends $10M over two years on a critical software product, but after firing one vendor and hiring a second, they still have nothing to show for it. This case study details the 5-step action plan used to rescue a failing project, restore internal credibility, and get product delivery back on track. From revamping the product roadmap and redefining vendor contracts to empowering a true product owner, this episode is a masterclass in turning around a high-stakes technology transformation. Discover how to shift from analysis paralysis to momentum and learn why strategy is meaningless without an execution engine you can trust. We also uncover how the team found a surprise opportunity to build new AI products by leveraging decades of institutional data they already had. In this episode: How to create a living technology and product roadmap that aligns both business stakeholders and frontline users. The critical shift from project management (Gantt charts and deliverables) to product management (business outcomes and priorities). Actionable strategies for vendor governance, including tying payment milestones to the delivery of working software. Using incremental delivery and weekly demos to catch misunderstandings early and de-risk the development process. How to move from "analysis paralysis" to action by designing small experiments to test new AI product ideas. Unlock the full potential of your product team with Integral's player coaches, experts in lean, human-centered design. Visit integral.io/convergence for a free Product Success Lab workshop to gain clarity and confidence in tackling any product design or engineering challenge. Subscribe to the Convergence podcast wherever you get podcasts including video episodes to get updated on the other crucial conversations that we'll post on YouTube at youtube.com/@convergencefmpodcast Learn something? Give us a 5 star review and like the podcast on YouTube. It's how we grow. Follow the Pod Linkedin: X: Instagram: @podconvergence
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AI Governance, Product-Market Fit & the Founder Mindset — John Rood on Building, Exiting & Starting Again
09/18/2025
AI Governance, Product-Market Fit & the Founder Mindset — John Rood on Building, Exiting & Starting Again
From testing markets with a simple Google ads landing page to scaling a multi-million dollar education business, John Rood has learned what it takes to build, exit, and start again. In this episode, John shares the lessons that shaped his journey: the importance of hiring specialists at the right time, why EOS was transformational for scaling, and how “feedback is a gift” became one of his guiding philosophies. We also get into life after exit, what it looks like to find meaning beyond money, and John’s latest chapter as founder of Perceptual where he helps enterprises adopt AI safely and responsibly. Whether you are a founder, an executive, or someone simply curious about what is next in your career, this conversation is packed with practical insights and real-world stories you can act on tomorrow. Inside the episode How John tested new markets with Google ads before making big bets Lessons in hiring: specialists vs. generalists, and convincing talent to join a smaller business Implementing EOS and why “following the recipe” matters Research and discovery, from validating product markets to interviewing 70 founders Why “feedback is a gift” and how to give it effectively The role of peer groups like EO and YPO in accelerating growth Finding purpose and passion after an exit, the “pocket knife” principle Guardrails for AI, how enterprises can adopt AI without being paralyzed by fear Mentioned in this episode EOS / Traction - Beyond the Exit by John Rood - Entrepreneurs’ Organization (EO) - YPO - Perceptual - John’s LinkedIn - Subscribe to the Convergence podcast wherever you get podcasts, including video episodes on YouTube. . Learn something? Give us a 5-star review and like the podcast on YouTube. It is how we grow.
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Avoiding the Tech Trap: How Two Founders Saved Their Failing AI Transformation
09/11/2025
Avoiding the Tech Trap: How Two Founders Saved Their Failing AI Transformation
A successful business with two aligned co-founders is transforming into a software and AI-enabled company, but after years of development, they aren't getting closer to launching a valuable product…what’s the solution? In this episode, learn how the founders' greatest strength—their ability to delegate—became a blind spot that nearly derailed their company's evolution. Discover the practical steps they took to get back to basics, re-engage with their team, and leverage lean, low-cost experiments to validate their strategy. This is a must-listen for any leader navigating a complex business transformation. In this episode… How the "visionary-integrator" leadership dynamic can become a blind spot during a major business pivot. Why treating a new venture like an angel investment is critical for asking the right questions about customer segmentation and problem validation before building. Actionable ways for founders to re-engage with their product teams for just a few hours a week to dramatically improve alignment and information flow. How to use generic LLMs and quick customer interviews to test assumptions and size the market without expensive development cycles. Mentioned in this episode... Traction and Rocket Fuel The Goal by Eli Goldratt The Mom Test by Rob Fitzpatrick Crossing the Chasm by Geoffrey Moore Seven Powers by Hamilton Helmer Crowns of Courage The Children's Foundation Unlock the full potential of your product team with Integral's player coaches, experts in lean, human-centered design. Visit integral.io/convergence for a free Product Success Lab workshop to gain clarity and confidence in tackling any product design or engineering challenge. Subscribe to the Convergence podcast wherever you get podcasts including video episodes to get updated on the other crucial conversations that we'll post on YouTube at youtube.com/@convergencefmpodcast Learn something? Give us a 5 star review and like the podcast on YouTube. It's how we grow. Follow the Pod Linkedin: X: Instagram: @podconvergence
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How to Lead a Tech Overhaul Without a Tech Team with Andrew Stein, Children’s Foundation
09/03/2025
How to Lead a Tech Overhaul Without a Tech Team with Andrew Stein, Children’s Foundation
When Andrew Stein stepped into the CEO role at the Children’s Foundation, he inherited a bloated tech stack, misaligned systems, and a looming CRM renewal with a steep price hike. With no in-house tech experts and only 15 staff, Andrew faced a critical decision point: how to make a smart technology pivot without draining his team’s energy—or the organization’s resources. In this conversation, he breaks down the structured, people-first approach that helped the foundation unify around its needs, realign its tech strategy, and emerge stronger, all without adding headcount. Ashok and Andrew unpack the process behind the workshop that set this transition in motion—covering everything from navigating vendor lock-in and defining “non-negotiables,” to how sticky notes and cross-functional collaboration became unexpected heroes in a major organizational shift. They also get into broader lessons on change management, trust-building, and how to keep morale high when the work gets hard. Whether you lead a lean nonprofit or a team in transition to transformation, there’s something here for anyone looking to make complex changes with clarity and alignment. Unlock the full potential of your product team with Integral's player coaches, experts in lean, human-centered design. Visit for a free Product Success Lab workshop to gain clarity and confidence in tackling any product design or engineering challenge. Inside the episode... How Andrew prepared his team for a major CRM migration without internal tech specialists Why they focused on needs alignment before even thinking about vendors The sticky note exercise that set the tone for cross-functional collaboration What it means to “de-risk” a big decision through structured prioritization The importance of clarity and timing in organizational restructuring How Andrew rebuilt staff trust after downsizing from 35 to 13 The concept of “avoiding the big bang” in tech transitions Why hiring a tech advocate (not tied to any vendor) made a difference Reapplying product thinking and prioritization tools in hiring and org design The mindset shift from one-time dream teams to repeatable team-building Mentioned in this episode Remarkable Tablet Integral’s Product Success Lab The Children’s Foundation – Andrew’s LinkedIn - Subscribe to the Convergence podcast wherever you get podcasts including video episodes on YouTube at Learn something? Give us a 5 star review and like the podcast on YouTube. It's how we grow.
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Best of Convergence: 9 Conversations You've Forgotten to Have With Your Team
08/27/2025
Best of Convergence: 9 Conversations You've Forgotten to Have With Your Team
Strong teams and transformed product practices drive growth. In order to drive outcomes using software and build great product teams, you need to drive speed to value and adapt quickly. The problem is, technology teams and business teams are often disjointed and lack clarity around each other’s “why.” Unlock the full potential of your product team with Integral's player coaches, experts in lean, human-centered design. Visit integral.io/convergence for a free Product Success Lab workshop to gain clarity and confidence in tackling any product design or engineering challenge. In this first part of a continuing series on the Convergence podcast, Ashok Sivanand and Bailey O'Shea, Head of Product at Integral, explore 9 conversations essential for the success of product teams that are too often forgotten. These conversations are cultivated from the years of experience Ashok and the team at Integral have consulting with some of the best product makers in the world. This discussion is vital for product managers and team leaders, offering an in-depth look at the nuanced dialogues that shape a product's journey from ideation to market execution. Learn about the often-overlooked discussions that can significantly enhance agility, speed up market delivery, and maintain team alignment as your operations scale. Unlock the full potential of your product team with Integral's player coaches, experts in lean, human-centered design. Visit integral.io/convergence for a free Product Access Lab workshop to gain clarity and confidence in tackling any product design or engineering challenge. Inside the episode... Understanding Communication Impact: Ashok and Bailey discuss how insufficient communication can severely affect team dynamics, decelerate processes, and impede agility. Critical Conversations for Product Teams: They highlight the crucial but frequently missed discussions necessary within product teams to prevent bottlenecks and foster a culture of transparency. Methods for Effective Dialogue: They share detailed strategies on facilitating these conversations to ensure comprehensive alignment across roles from engineers to product managers. Practical and Theoretical Insights: The episode offers practical examples and theoretical insights to help listeners understand the application of these conversations in real teams, along with the foundational theories behind their significance. Subscribe to the Convergence podcast wherever you get podcasts including video episodes to get updated on the other crucial conversations that we'll post on YouTube at youtube.com/@convergencefmpodcast Learn something? Give us a 5 star review and like the podcast on YouTube. It's how we grow. Follow the Pod Linkedin: X: Instagram: @podconvergence
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Best of Convergence: Building Customer-Centric Teams: Josh Seiden on OKRs and Agile
08/21/2025
Best of Convergence: Building Customer-Centric Teams: Josh Seiden on OKRs and Agile
In this episode, Ashok sits down with , to explore key insights from Josh's latest book, "Who Does What by How Much." The conversation centers around using OKRs (Objectives and Key Results) to align teams and improve organizational outcomes. They examine the challenges many teams face when implementing frameworks like OKRs or Agile and emphasize the importance of understanding the "why" behind these systems. Josh also reflects on his early work, such as developing the Kensington Turbo Mouse and collaborating with Alan Cooper, widely known as the "Father of Visual Basic." Unlock the full potential of your product team with Integral's player coaches, experts in lean, human-centered design. Visit integral.io/convergence for a free Product Success Lab workshop to gain clarity and confidence in tackling any product design or engineering challenge. Get key strategies for fostering a customer-centric culture, building effective product teams, and aligning leadership with team goals. Whether you’re new to OKRs or looking to refine your process, this episode provides actionable advice for team leaders, product managers, and executives alike. Inside the Episode... The role of OKRs in driving business alignment and outcomes The importance of clarifying the "why" behind processes like OKRs or Agile Josh Seiden’s background and his early design work with the Kensington Turbo Mouse Strategies for using frameworks to empower teams and avoid over-focusing on the process How to implement OKRs successfully and avoid common pitfalls The evolution of design thinking in product development Understanding the customer’s role at every level of an organization Key lessons from "Who Does What by How Much" and Josh's other books Mentioned in this Episode: The Kensington Turbo Mouse Subscribe to the Convergence podcast wherever you get podcasts, including video episodes on YouTube at youtube.com/@convergencefmpodcast. Learn something? Give us a 5-star review and like the podcast on YouTube. It's how we grow. Follow the Pod Linkedin: X: Instagram: @podconvergence
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Best of Convergence: How Generative AI and DORA Metrics Transform Software Development Teams with Derek Ferguson
08/13/2025
Best of Convergence: How Generative AI and DORA Metrics Transform Software Development Teams with Derek Ferguson
Derek Ferguson from The Fitch Group returns to share how his team of 600+ developers leverages generative AI tools like Amazon’s CodeWhisperer and implements DORA metrics to boost productivity and team health. In this second part of the conversation, he delves into the transformative impact of these tools and the innovative strategies driving adoption and success at scale. Listen to Derek’s experiences in introducing cutting-edge tools to a large organization, his lessons in fostering experimentation, and the surprising parallels between today’s AI adoption and the internet boom. From the role of community practices versus centers of excellence to pragmatic advice on technology adoption, this episode is packed with actionable insights for leaders and developers alike. Stick around for Derek’s perspective on the evolving role of technologists in an AI-driven world and how music creation intersects with his tech expertise. Inside the episode… • Exploring generative AI for software development and its transformative potential. • Implementing DORA metrics to boost productivity and enhance team alignment. • Lessons learned from scaling technology practices across large organizations. • The balance between prescriptive guidance and fostering creativity in teams. • Insights into creating impactful developer communities of practice. Mentioned in this episode • Generative AI tools (e.g., Amazon’s CodeWhisperer) • DORA metrics (DevOps Research and Assessment) • Tools for music and tech crossover (e.g., RipX, Replicate) Unlock the full potential of your product team with Integral's player coaches, experts in lean, human-centered design. Visit integral.io/convergence for a free Product Success Lab workshop to gain clarity and confidence in tackling any product design or engineering challenge. Subscribe to the Convergence podcast wherever you get podcasts including video episodes to get updated on the other crucial conversations that we'll post on YouTube at youtube.com/@convergencefmpodcast Learn something? Give us a 5 star review and like the podcast on YouTube. It's how we grow. Follow the Pod Linkedin: X: Instagram: @podconvergence Unlock the full potential of your product team with Integral's player coaches, experts in lean, human-centered design. Visit integral.io/convergence for a free Product Success Lab workshop to gain clarity and confidence in tackling any product design or engineering challenge. Subscribe to the Convergence podcast wherever you get podcasts including video episodes to get updated on the other crucial conversations that we'll post on YouTube at youtube.com/@convergencefmpodcast Learn something? Give us a 5 star review and like the podcast on YouTube. It's how we grow. Follow the Pod Linkedin: X: Instagram: @podconvergence
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Best Of Convergence: Crafting "Surprisingly Great" Developer Experiences with Kenneth Auchenberg
08/06/2025
Best Of Convergence: Crafting "Surprisingly Great" Developer Experiences with Kenneth Auchenberg
Great developer experience isn’t just about clean docs or helpful error messages—it’s about intentionally delighting your user at every step. In this episode of Convergence.fm, host Ashok Sivanand is joined by Kenneth Auchenberg—former product leader at Microsoft and Stripe—for a masterclass on what it really takes to design and scale developer-centric platforms. The Convergence.fm podcast team is taking a break in the month of August, but we’ll be back with new episodes in the fall. Until then, Ashok wants to share one of his favorite episodes. We’ll be back in September with a new set of episodes on fostering engaged teams who ship delightful products. Thanks for watching and listening. This episode originally aired June 24th, 2024 Kenneth helped shape Visual Studio Code and later played a key role in defining Stripe’s gold-standard API experience. In this conversation, he breaks down the building blocks of DevEx success—from friction logging and human-centered design to measuring satisfaction and optimizing for the long tail of developers. They explore the differences between platform and infrastructure businesses, explain why most companies aren’t ready to be platforms, and walk through frameworks for product metrics that matter. Whether you’re designing your first SDK or scaling a full-fledged platform, you’ll leave with actionable insights for making developers love your product. Unlock the full potential of your product team with Integral’s player coaches, experts in lean, human-centered design. Visit for a free Product Success Lab workshop to gain clarity and confidence in tackling any product design or engineering challenge. Inside the episode… What Stripe got right about developer experience The difference between DevRel and DevEx How to test and measure developer delight When to evolve from infrastructure to platform Why great DevEx starts with product-market fit Mentioned in this episode… Stripe Microsoft / VS Code GitHub AWS Marketplace Shopify Superbase Recent.dev Subscribe to the Convergence podcast wherever you get podcasts including video episodes on YouTube at Learn something? Give us a 5 star review and like the podcast on YouTube. It’s how we grow.
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Best Of Convergence: How To Drive Product Development and Market Expansion with Ben Foster, Prodify
08/02/2025
Best Of Convergence: How To Drive Product Development and Market Expansion with Ben Foster, Prodify
As former Chief Product Officer at Whoop, Ben Foster had a front-row seat to one of the boldest product decisions in wearables: selling hardware as a subscription. In this encore episode, Ashok and Ben explore what it takes to align hardware, firmware, and software teams to create a seamless membership experience—and how that strategy set the stage for Whoop’s continued success, including the recent release of the Whoop 5. The Convergence.fm podcast team is taking a break in the month of August, but we’ll be back with new episodes in the fall. Until then, Ashok wants to share one of his favorite episodes, starring Ben Foster of Prodigy, who opens up about building hardware-enabled subscription products and crossing the product-market chasm. We’ll be back in September with a new set of episodes on fostering engaged teams who ship delightful products. Thanks for watching and listening. This Episode originally aired May 21st, 2024 You’ll hear how Whoop adapted to serve both elite athletes and everyday health-minded users, how Ben’s frameworks helped prioritize roadmaps under pressure, and how the team leveraged personas and retention metrics to shape the product strategy. If you’re navigating the shift from services to scalable product thinking—or just love geeking out on wearable tech—this one’s for you. Unlock the full potential of your product team with Integral’s player coaches, experts in lean, human-centered design. Visit for a free Product Success Lab workshop to gain clarity and confidence in tackling any product design or engineering challenge. Inside the episode… Why Whoop bet on a subscription-only hardware model—and how it paid off Navigating product strategy across hardware, firmware, and software What it really means to build for product-market fit A breakdown of Whoop’s layered user personas How to cross the chasm without losing your early adopters The importance of clarity, vision, and playing offense as a product team Lessons on persona development and roadmap prioritization What product leaders get wrong about saying “no” Behind the book: Build What Matters and the frameworks inside Mentioned in this episode Whoop Prodigy Group Build What Matters (book) Integral Product Success Lab Microsoft Spot Subscribe to the Convergence podcast wherever you get podcasts including video episodes on YouTube at Learn something? Give us a 5 star review and like the podcast on YouTube. It’s how we grow.
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Q&A: No One Understands Your Demo? Here’s WHY | TDD Isn’t Just for CODE — Use It Everywhere!
07/28/2025
Q&A: No One Understands Your Demo? Here’s WHY | TDD Isn’t Just for CODE — Use It Everywhere!
If you’ve ever wondered how to make test-driven development more than a coding technique, this episode is for you. Ashok Sivanand and producer Doug Branson answer listener and Reddit-sourced questions about building better product teams—covering everything from mindset shifts to hard truths about performance reviews and strategic alignment. Ashok connects TDD to the principles of Essentialism by Greg McKeown, revealing how teams can define success before they begin and cut through the noise of Slack and OKRs. Hear practical advice for first-time founders struggling to articulate value without a 20-minute demo, plus techniques to scale beyond early adopter customers using real-world interviews and Jobs to Be Done. Later, they explore how to recover from a tough performance review, especially in remote roles, and why communication—not effort—is often the missing ingredient. The episode wraps with a conversation about the dangers of leadership ambiguity when a company isn’t sure whether it’s selling a service or a product. ASK YOUR QUESTION: convergence.fm/contact Unlock the full potential of your product team with Integral's player coaches, experts in lean, human-centered design. Visit integral.io/convergence for a free Product Success Lab workshop to gain clarity and confidence in tackling any product design or engineering challenge. Episodes referenced in this episode... From Code to Culture: How Shopify Thrives Under Farhan Thawar’s Thought Leadership - The POWER of Small Data With High Signal - A Jobs To Be Done masterclass with Andrew Glaser - Building Customer-Centric Teams: Josh Seiden on OKRs and Agile - Best of 2024 - Derisking and Evolving on your OKR (Objectives and Key Results) Implementation - Inside the episode... TDD as a mindset beyond code, inspired by Essentialism How to recover from a tough performance review in a remote org Tips for first-time founders explaining product value without demos Jobs to Be Done and using customer language in sales Diagnosing product vs service strategy confusion in your org Mentioned in this episode... Essentialism by Greg McKeown The Mom Test by Rob Fitzpatrick Jobs to Be Done framework Calendly Integral Unlock the full potential of your product team with Integral's player coaches, experts in lean, human-centered design. Visit integral.io/convergence for a free Product Success Lab workshop to gain clarity and confidence in tackling any product design or engineering challenge. Subscribe to the Convergence podcast wherever you get podcasts including video episodes to get updated on the other crucial conversations that we'll post on YouTube at youtube.com/@convergencefmpodcast Learn something? Give us a 5 star review and like the podcast on YouTube. It's how we grow. Follow the Pod Linkedin: X: Instagram: @podconvergence
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The Dangers of Vibe Coding Addiction and Single Points of Failure - Your Product Team Questions Answered!
07/16/2025
The Dangers of Vibe Coding Addiction and Single Points of Failure - Your Product Team Questions Answered!
What happens when your lead engineer leaves and takes the product knowledge with them? In this episode, Ashok Sivanand tackles some of the most pressing product and engineering questions straight from the community—including how to prevent panic-inducing knowledge loss, when founders should or shouldn’t vibe code, and how to choose between building full-service or self-serve platforms. Ashok is joined by producer Doug Branson for a first-ever audience Q&A format that covers real problems from real teams. From unit test-driven documentation to AI-assisted code exploration, this episode gives both quick fixes and long-term strategies for building resilient teams. Plus, learn the Lexus vs Scion framework that product leaders are using to determine their go-to-market path when serving both advanced and beginner users. Unlock the full potential of your product team with Integral's player coaches, experts in lean, human-centered design. Visit for a free Product Success Lab workshop to gain clarity and confidence in tackling any product design or engineering challenge. Inside the episode... How to prevent engineering burnout and knowledge bottlenecks The pros and cons of vibe coding for technical founders Using AI tools like Copilot to debug and document Choosing between full-service vs self-serve platform tools Aligning product strategy with internal team maturity Mentioned in this episode GitHub Copilot Cursor Reddit Product Management Community Subscribe to the Convergence podcast wherever you get podcasts including video episodes to get updated on the other crucial conversations that we'll post on YouTube at youtube.com/@convergencefmpodcast Learn something? Give us a 5 star review and like the podcast on YouTube. It's how we grow. Follow the Pod Linkedin: X: Instagram: @podconvergence
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The Missing Link in Hybrid Teams? A Sense of Belonging.Why It’s More Strategic Than DEI
07/10/2025
The Missing Link in Hybrid Teams? A Sense of Belonging.Why It’s More Strategic Than DEI
Dan Berger led Social Tables through a $100M exit and now he’s focused on something even harder to build: belonging. In this vulnerable conversation, he shares what most leaders miss about culture, how his board almost ousted him due to a toxic exec hire, and why belonging should be treated as a leadership choice — not an HR initiative. He also unpacks why rituals matter, why alcohol doesn’t belong in team settings, and what founders can learn from AA meetings about structure, vulnerability, and connection. We also get into his latest venture, Assemble Hospitality Group, a new asset class of “micro resorts” designed for team offsites and retreats. Dan breaks down the mechanics of retreat design, conscious exclusivity, and how different team members — from introverts to eager belongers — need different paths to feel seen and connected. If your company is hybrid, remote, or just feeling disconnected, this episode offers sharp, practical insight to get back on track. Unlock the full potential of your product team with Integral's player coaches, experts in lean, human-centered design. Visit for a free Product Success Lab workshop to gain clarity and confidence in tackling any product design or engineering challenge. Inside the episode Why belonging is more strategic than DEI The definition of belonging (and why it’s a sense, not a feeling) Dan’s concept of “conscious exclusivity” and why it matters for leaders What to do when a board pushes exec hires that don’t fit your culture How to communicate emotion and intuition as a founder What Alcoholics Anonymous teaches us about structure and ritual How to design team retreats with different belonging personas in mind Why alcohol doesn’t belong in work events When to prioritize shared learning over shared office space Mentioned in this episode belongingquest.com/quiz – Belonging Archetype Quiz Belonging Archetypes: Chimpanzees, Meerkats, Jaguars, Wolves The Quest by Dan Berger Assemble Hospitality Group Home Assistant Granola (screen recorder) Atio (CRM) Clay (prospecting tool) Obama’s “Team of Rivals” Cabinet Unlock the full potential of your product team with Integral's player coaches, experts in lean, human-centered design. Visit integral.io/convergence for a free Product Success Lab workshop to gain clarity and confidence in tackling any product design or engineering challenge. Subscribe to the Convergence podcast wherever you get podcasts including video episodes to get updated on the other crucial conversations that we'll post on YouTube at youtube.com/@convergencefmpodcast Learn something? Give us a 5 star review and like the podcast on YouTube. It's how we grow. Follow the Pod Linkedin: X: Instagram: @podconvergence
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Authenticity by Design: Building Mental Health Tools That Actually Work with Seth Micarelli of Volo Health
07/02/2025
Authenticity by Design: Building Mental Health Tools That Actually Work with Seth Micarelli of Volo Health
AI can make therapy more accessible—but only if it's done right. In this episode, ex-Google and Amazon product leader Seth shares his journey from panic attacks to building Volo Health, an AI-powered tool for anxiety, depression, and addiction. He breaks down how most therapy tools get it wrong, what makes human-centered AI actually safe, and how product teams can reconnect with the humans they serve—even at scale. Seth opens up about leaving Silicon Valley, his personal journey with emotional healing, and the limits of traditional therapy. Along the way, we explore the ethics of AI in mental health, the value of 12-step recovery models, and the risks of over-validating users with AI. If you're a founder, product lead, or designer thinking about building in healthcare, mental wellness, or with generative AI—this conversation is a must. Unlock the full potential of your product team with Integral's player coaches, experts in lean, human-centered design. Visit integral.io/convergence for a free Product Success Lab workshop to gain clarity and confidence in tackling any product design or engineering challenge. In this episode... Why AI validation isn't always helpful—and can sometimes be harmful How Volo Health uses opinionated AI, clinical oversight, and anonymized data to personalize support The difference between optimizing for scale vs. building for emotional impact What Seth learned from working at Amazon, Google, and in recovery circles How founders can build teams and products that don’t lose sight of the human Mentioned in this episode... Volo Health LangChain / LangGraph ChatGPT / GPT-based therapy models 988 Crisis Line SVS Subwoofers (yes, really) Subscribe to the Convergence podcast wherever you get podcasts including video episodes to get updated on the other crucial conversations that we'll post on YouTube at youtube.com/@convergencefmpodcast Learn something? Give us a 5 star review and like the podcast on YouTube. It's how we grow. Follow the Pod Linkedin: X: Instagram: @podconvergence
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Startups Are Nailing Agentic Workflows — And Why Enterprises Aren’t
06/26/2025
Startups Are Nailing Agentic Workflows — And Why Enterprises Aren’t
Karthik Suresh has seen the software industry from all sides — high-frequency trading, Meta’s product teams, early-stage startup trenches, and now the frontier of AI agents. As co-founder of Double-O, he’s building a platform that helps non-technical teams automate complex business processes using AI agents described in plain English. In this episode, Karthik shares hard-won lessons about what it really takes to make agentic workflows work in production — and why most companies are still getting it wrong. We talk about the structural failures hiding inside most AI proof-of-concepts, the overlooked importance of eval frameworks, and why enterprise leaders may be unintentionally blocking their own GenAI progress by clinging to control instead of creating trust. Unlock the full potential of your product team with Integral's player coaches, experts in lean, human-centered design. Visit for a free Product Success Lab workshop to gain clarity and confidence in tackling any product design or engineering challenge. Inside the episode... Why most AI agent workflows break outside the demo environment How to architect agents like a real team, with roles and review loops What eval frameworks are and how they protect optionality Common failure patterns when swapping models or changing prompts How to tell when you’ve actually hit product-market fit Why pivot decisions are rarely data-first and often emotionally fraught How startups maintain speed by designing for change, not certainty What big companies get wrong about AI adoption and control Lessons from a $400M trading system failure Karthik lived through The future of agent-to-agent communication and orchestration protocols Mentioned in this episode AutoGen LangGraph (AI call recorder) Subscribe to the Convergence podcast wherever you get podcasts, including video episodes on YouTube at Learn something? Give us a 5-star review and like the podcast on YouTube. It’s how we grow.
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Scaling Intelligently: What Intrapreneurs Can Teach Startup CEOs and Investors with Scott Jones, Realeyes
06/19/2025
Scaling Intelligently: What Intrapreneurs Can Teach Startup CEOs and Investors with Scott Jones, Realeyes
Some of the biggest product breakthroughs didn’t come from startups — they came from intrapreneurs. In this episode, we speak with Scott Jones, a career intrapreneur who has launched new lines of business at Lenovo, Hewlett Packard Enterprise, and Realeyes, a computer vision AI company serving some of the world’s most influential platforms. Scott shares a detailed, experience-backed look at what it takes to make innovation work inside companies that weren’t built for speed. He breaks down the mindset, team dynamics, and cultural rituals that allow new bets to thrive — and provides practical guidance for founders, executives, and investors looking to bring this approach into their own organizations. Unlock the full potential of your product team with Integral's player coaches, experts in lean, human-centered design. Visit integral.io/convergence for a free Product Success Lab workshop to gain clarity and confidence in tackling any product design or engineering challenge. Inside the episode... How Scott went from analyst and musician to AI product leader A modern definition of intrapreneurship — and why it matters now Key personality traits and behavioral markers of strong intrapreneurs Why ambiguity is a feature, not a bug, in high-growth environments How leaders can foster a culture of experimentation (rituals, roles, and goals) Strategies for validating new product ideas quickly and credibly How to communicate innovation progress to stakeholders with different styles Realeyes’ identity verification tech and the future of online trust How personal trauma and spiritual practices influence Scott’s leadership approach Mentioned in this episode - Where Scott works as VP, Product - Intro guide from the Art of Living Foundation: - Official site with book info and resources: - Publisher page for the book: - Book info (note: EOS books are often sold through their coaching platform): - His foundational book Autobiography of a Yogi on the Self-Realization Fellowship site: Scott’s linkedIn - https://www.linkedin.com/in/scottjeezey Scott’s instagram - https://www.instagram.com/scottjeezey/ Subscribe to the Convergence podcast wherever you get podcasts — including video episodes on YouTube at Learn something? Give us a 5-star review and like the podcast on YouTube. It's how we grow.
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Designing for Conflict: How Joshua Graves Builds Better Teams and Products
06/04/2025
Designing for Conflict: How Joshua Graves Builds Better Teams and Products
Joshua Graves, founder of Lost Horse Labs and author of We Need to Talk, joins the show to unpack what happens when product leaders ignore hard conversations — and what it takes to build an environment where teams can truly thrive. Drawing from two decades in product design, civic tech, and leadership coaching, Joshua brings practical, deeply human guidance on navigating organizational tension, protecting team trust, and avoiding the trap of control disguised as process. From the neuroscience of conflict to the value of rituals and the art of disagreeing and committing, Joshua’s insights are rooted in experience — not just theory. Whether you're a CEO, product leader, or just someone who wants to get better at the conversations that matter, this episode offers useful ideas for designing more human teams and more honest leadership. Unlock the full potential of your product team with Integral's player coaches, experts in lean, human-centered design. Visit for a free Product Success Lab workshop to gain clarity and confidence in tackling any product design or engineering challenge. Inside the episode... Why conflict avoidance is costly — and how to know when it’s time to speak up What it really means to create psychological safety (and how to ritualize it) Understanding the brain’s role in conflict, emotion, and reactivity The “compass vs. map” approach to navigating difficult conversations How to mediate conflict as a leader without becoming a dictator Using tools like user manuals and plus-deltas to personalize collaboration Building rituals without becoming dogmatic or overly process-driven When to assume positive intent — and when that’s no longer productive What to do when you’re facing manipulation, gaslighting, or loss of trust Why checking in with yourself can be the most powerful leadership too Mentioned in this episode Joshua’/s book - We Need to Talk: A Survival Guide for Tough Conversations. Lost Horse Labs – , e-mail hello at losthorse.design Plus/Deltas as a feedback framework: Nonviolent communication: Joshua’s favourite maker tools - Glowforge - Joshua’s favourite maker tools - XTool (screen printing tools) - Joshua’s LinkedIn: Subscribe to the Convergence podcast wherever you get podcasts including video episodes to get updated on the other crucial conversations that we'll post on YouTube at youtube.com/@convergencefmpodcast Learn something? Give us a 5 star review and like the podcast on YouTube. It's how we grow. Follow the Pod Linkedin: X: Instagram: @podconvergence
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