Drinking From the Toilet: Real dogs, Real training
A behind-the-scenes look into the reality of dog training, behavior, teaching, and learning. We love our dogs, we love our jobs, but sometimes it's not all unicorns and rainbows. Sometimes at the end of the day, you just need a drink and friend who gets it. We'll keep it fun, and keep it real.
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#184: What's Wrong with "Drilling"?
02/28/2024
#184: What's Wrong with "Drilling"?
In this episode we dig into the concept of drilling, and how it applies in dog training. It’s pretty common for most of us to have an emotional response just to the term itself - for good reason! But is there any baby in this bathwater? In this episode, we discuss that drilling is significant for skill acquisition in various contexts beyond dog training, our emotional responses to drilling are shaped by personal experiences and the nature of the activity, a good drill should isolate core components of skills for focused practice and efficiency, coercive drilling methods that ignore the learner’s needs lead to negative associations and even hinder learning, repetition alone is insufficient for learning; reinforcement and iterative adjustments are critical, deliberate practice involves observing, learning, and modifying activities based on feedback, mindless repetition without feedback and adjustment does not lead to improvement, continuous improvement requires proactive engagement and measured adjustments based on outcomes, and seeking help and guidance when progress stalls is essential for effective skill development. For full show notes and transcript, visit: This podcast is supported by MET Conference 2024:
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#183: Demand Barking, Part 3, with Kiki Yablon
02/12/2024
#183: Demand Barking, Part 3, with Kiki Yablon
In this episode, we discuss the history behind Kiki’s master’s thesis project, Signaled Differential Reinforcement of Other Behavior to Address Excessive Vocalization in Dogs, what gave her the idea - the case of the dog barking when guests are over, how training stay on a mat actually seems to have caused the problem, the new strategy - signalling that food will not be available when towel was hung up (“if this van’s a rocking”), a discussion of DRO w/o extinction, and does this strategy apply to other behaviors like demand whining? For full show notes and transcript, visit: This podcast is supported by MET Conference 2024:
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#182: Demand Barking, Part 2
02/02/2024
#182: Demand Barking, Part 2
In this episode, we discuss using concepts around stimulus control to stop demand barking before it stops, how cues create expectations of what reinforcement is available, using naturally occurring events that are already built into your routine to signal when reinforcement is available and when it is not, overly-simplified reminders of including good dog household management, which you already know, but sometimes it’s good to hear it again, teaching the stand up-sit down game, and principles to apply these strategies in your own home. For full show notes and transcript, visit: This podcast is supported by MET Conference 2024:
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#181: Demand Barking, Part 1
01/18/2024
#181: Demand Barking, Part 1
In this episode, we are talking about Demand Barking. This is a three-part series, at least for now. For the first two episodes, I’ll be sharing my thoughts and what I’ve learned about working with dogs that “demand” bark. And then for the 3rd episode, we’ll talk to a guest on the subject! In this episode, we discuss how barking isn’t just one behavior, it’s actually a lot of different behaviors that we lump into one category, in order to figure out what to do about problematic barking, we need to know what the function of that behavior is, we discuss the emotional underpinnings of the behavior we often label “demand barking”, why that matters, and why I keep using air quotes around those words, why I’m no longer so invested in the most common advice, which is to ignore the dog, and we start getting into some other strategies to try out instead, like teaching a range of alternate behaviors that your dog can use to get their needs met - that you actively reinforce - that are not quite as annoying as being screamed at. For full show notes and transcript, visit: This podcast is supported by MET Conference 2024:
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#180: Building Food Drive and Nuanced Reinforcement with Ashlee Osborn
10/19/2023
#180: Building Food Drive and Nuanced Reinforcement with Ashlee Osborn
In this episode we discuss the importance of getting really, really good at working with reinforcement, how the topic of reinforcement and using it in training is FAR more nuanced than most trainers recognize, food is probably the most convenient reinforcement but it does require specific conditioning and strategies to use effectively in training, Ashlee’s game, Clockwork - a fancy application of treat tossing that specifies where and when to toss for clients, and building motivation for food even when dogs are really just not into it. For full show notes, visit: This podcast is supported by Zero to CD:
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#179: More Strategies to Reduce Errors
10/05/2023
#179: More Strategies to Reduce Errors
In the last episode, we talked about what errorless learning really means. And I shared a few strategies that might make it easier to apply in your training. Of course, the major benefit to using errorless learning concepts in your training is the outcome of behaviors with a cleaner learning history and less emotional baggage. Of course, we don’t want attempts to avoid errors to mean we also avoid making progress. We still want to get where we’re going, just with fewer wrong turns. In this episode we discuss behavioral momentum, using behavioral momentum to avoid a lack of response to your cues (a common form of error), the importance of starting with low criteria and be in a position to raise that criteria quickly, rather than starting with an error and being forced to lower that criteria (Thanks, Bob Bailey!), examples from starting a heeling session, to working with distance on go outs, to teaching a pony to move forward on cue, using an indirect, “lateral” approach to selecting your criteria to avoid hammering on the most fragile aspect of a behavior you are trying to train, examples include teaching hold with duration (after breaking it), and working around emotionally-loaded challenges with heeling or loose-leash walking, and probably other things I forgot! For full show notes, visit: This podcast is supported by Zero to CD:
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#178: How to Apply Errorless Learning Principles in Practical Training Sessions
07/21/2023
#178: How to Apply Errorless Learning Principles in Practical Training Sessions
In his 1968 book, The Technology of Teaching, B.F. Skinner wrote: Errors are not a function of learning or vice-versa nor are they blamed on the learner. Errors are a function of poor analysis of behavior, a poorly designed shaping program, moving too fast from step to step in the program and the lack of the prerequisite behavior necessary for success in the program. - BF Skinner And that sounds great. It also sounds like a lot of pressure on the dog trainer. Never fear! In this episode, we discuss what errorless learning actually means and how to apply the principles in our real life training sessions. In this episode, we discuss the original research on errorless learning by Dr. H.S. Terrace form 1963, what is the difference between errorless training and trial-and-error trainings?, why we care about training with errors - what’s in it for us dog trainers?, designing our training sessions so that we don’t rely on extinction as a training tool, and in fact actively structure our sessions to minimize our dogs’ experience of extinction, strategies allow us to train more errorlessly (fading in discriminations - early and often, using back-chaining, even when shaping small behaviors, introducing a new element between the click and the treat, setting your minimum criteria to earn a click to behaviors your dog is doing frequently, and avoid raising criteria to something your dog has never done, or only done once). For full show notes, visit: This podcast is supported by Patreon:
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#177: Dr. Clive Wynne Says Some Controversial Things About Dominance
06/23/2023
#177: Dr. Clive Wynne Says Some Controversial Things About Dominance
In this episode, we discuss what is the ethological definition of dominance?, how does dominance show up in behavior?, how might dominance be relevant in dog training?, differences in dog-dog vs dog-human relationships, and does dominance require aggression or punishment? For full show notes, visit: This podcast is supported by Patreon:
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#176: Taking Short Cuts with Stimulus-Stimulus Pairing with Kiki Yablon
06/06/2023
#176: Taking Short Cuts with Stimulus-Stimulus Pairing with Kiki Yablon
In this episode, we discuss what is stimulus-stimulus pairing and how it works?, what is a “classically conditioned recall” and why might we consider calling it something different, revisiting the differences and interplay between operant and classical conditioning, the difference between describing a procedure and describing a process, and lots and lots of examples of how to apply this concept in different training applications. For full show notes, visit: This podcast is supported by Patreon:
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#175: Over the Top - High Arousal in Dogs
05/19/2023
#175: Over the Top - High Arousal in Dogs
In this episode, we discuss what is arousal?, how does arousal show up in our training?, how does arousal affect both people and dogs?, how arousal affects reinforcers, and “eating as behavior” and how to build functional food drive with a dog that won’t eat. For full show notes and transcript, visit: This podcast is supported by Control Unleashed Over the Top Workshop for High Arousal Dogs:
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#174: Families with Dogs and Kids with Jennifer Shryock
04/26/2023
#174: Families with Dogs and Kids with Jennifer Shryock
In this episode, we discuss the most important thing for dog professionals to know about working with families, the importance of understanding developmental milestones, working with and setting expectations, finding ways for children to safely participate in training, and the importance of providing support to families and especially mothers. For full show notes and transcript, visit: This podcast is supported by Zero to CD:
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#173: Dealing with Problem Behaviors - Using Alternate Behaviors
03/02/2023
#173: Dealing with Problem Behaviors - Using Alternate Behaviors
In this episode, we discuss that the first step to dealing with a problem behavior is to identify the function, figuring out a plan to control access if possible and practical, if that reinforcer is not practical to work with, identifying a substitute reinforcer that is as close as possible to the original, choosing your alternate behavior, strategies if you are teaching the alternate behavior from scratch, deciding if you’ll be using differential reinforcement, and if you are not planning to use differential reinforcement, planning to setup the environment for (mostly) errorless learning. For full show notes and transcript, visit: This podcast is supported by MET Conference 2023:
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#172: How to Tell That Your Classical Conditioning Plan is Working
02/14/2023
#172: How to Tell That Your Classical Conditioning Plan is Working
When we pair two stimuli together as part of a classical conditioning training plan, it can sometimes be hard to determine when the association has been made between the old stimulus and the new stimulus… the “food” and the “bell”, to draw from a popular example. In this episode, I answer a question submitted by a patron with some ideas on what to look for to determine if that association is strong enough and it’s time to proceed to the next step. In this episode, we discuss quick review of conditioned emotional response, what happens when you pair a reinforcer with a stimulus in the environment, using this strategy to build a specific, positive CER in a training session, a recap of Lindsay Wood Brown’s work on resource guarding, and applying this strategy to stimulus-stimulus pairing with scent. For full show notes and transcript, visit: This podcast is supported by MET Conference 2023:
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#171: Maintenance Mode
02/06/2023
#171: Maintenance Mode
In this episode, we discuss, when you might outsource maintenance to the environment?, functional difference between intrinsic and extrinsic reinforcers in maintaining behaviors, how easy it is for behaviors to start slipping before we notice, one way to avoid or minimize that slippage is to design a rotation, start by grabbing some behaviors or exercises that matter to you, then give yourself a time frame to rotate through those behaviors (I usually use a 2 week block), and starting with your item at the top of the rotation for today (do a test run for the purposes of seeing where you’re at, identify either something that is weak now that you are looking at it OR a way you could do something differently, make yourself a little session to work on that thing). For full show notes and transcript, visit: This podcast is supported by MET Conference 2023:
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#170: How To Avoid Too Much Drilling
01/26/2023
#170: How To Avoid Too Much Drilling
In this episode, we discuss tradeoffs when using systematic “drills” to isolate specific aspects of an exercise, drills help us isolate specific aspects of an exercise and give us the advantage of Deliberate Practice for expertise, what is meant by “fun”?, play and fun often introduce more variability as well as a dialogue, strategies to protect myself from myself, using “play sandwiches” to break up a session, training overlapping skills in the same session, and using “different-but-not-harder” creatively for novelty and flexibility. For full show notes and transcript, visit: This podcast is supported by MET Conference 2023:
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#169: Advocating For Your Dog with Erin Moore
01/09/2023
#169: Advocating For Your Dog with Erin Moore
In this episode, we discuss what inspired Erin’s Tiktok, what advocating for our dogs even means, why does it matter?, what gets in the way?, how does trauma affect our ability to advocate?, what societal factors may be in play?, and how can we support ourselves and each other? For full show notes and transcript, visit: This podcast is supported by Karen Pryor Clicker Training's Brand-New On Cue! Training Treats:
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#168: Things That Are Saving My Life Right Now
12/14/2022
#168: Things That Are Saving My Life Right Now
In this episode, we discuss why everything is hard (just kidding, no answers here. Why IS everything so hard?); behaviors, routines, and material acquisitions that are helping take the edge off; behaviors that reduce my daily annoyance level and make it easier to enjoy my dogs (stationing/crating from a distance, putting their own collars on, picking up my ear buds when they fall, especially under furniture, Cavaletti, front and back paw targets); routines (nail trimmers on same hook as leashes, feeding out of slow feeders, Zoom training meetups); and material acquisitions (dry erase sleeves, pony jet, Bissel machine, slime flat tire machine). For full show notes and transcript, visit: This podcast is supported by Karen Pryor Clicker Training's Brand-New On Cue! Training Treats:
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#167: What is Ethics About and Why Should We Care?
12/05/2022
#167: What is Ethics About and Why Should We Care?
In this episode, we discuss what are “ethics” and why should we care?, can we answer the question “am I a good person?, how can we measure welfare?, the five freedoms/five domains of welfare, every animal has right to freedom from, hunger, thirst, discomfort/injury, and to express normal behavior, guidelines for beneficence: even if some good comes, can’t outweigh the harm done to the group that were subjects. "Waste no more time arguing what a good man should be. Be one." - Marcus Aurelius For full show notes and transcript, visit: This podcast is supported by Karen Pryor Clicker Training's Brand-New On Cue! Training Treats:
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#166: Why is Shaping So Hard?, Pt. 2
11/16/2022
#166: Why is Shaping So Hard?, Pt. 2
In this episode, we discuss why we often consider shaping to be an advanced technique, why I think it doesn’t have to/shouldn’t be that way, why I think how many of us first learned about shaping is contributing to the problem, how the expectations we have around shaping (based on how we were taught) might be getting in the way of doing good training, the two expectations that can get in the way: that shaping is linear and that it should be spontaneous, changing how we think about shaping to consider the whole ABC contingency can allow us to do better training without having to struggle so much, how you can set yourself and your dog up for success and it is still shaping!, there is no cheating in shaping as long as you are being honest with yourself (and your dog), setting up for success means a lot more than just training in a low distraction environment, the shaping staircase is a great model for teaching someone about the concept of successive approximation, but it is limiting in real life application, consider building behaviors from components, the first “step” in your shaping plan may look nothing like the final behavior and it might even seem to be farther away from your goal than where you are now! For full show notes, visit: This podcast is supported by Karen Pryor Clicker Training's Brand-New On Cue! Training Treats:
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#165: Why is Shaping So Hard?, Pt. 1
10/10/2022
#165: Why is Shaping So Hard?, Pt. 1
In this episode, we discuss why we often consider shaping to be an advanced technique, why I think it doesn’t have to/shouldn’t be that way, why I think how many of us first learned about shaping is contributing to the problem, how the expectations we have around shaping (based on how we were taught) might be getting in the way of doing good training, the two expectations that can get in the way: that shaping is linear and that it should be spontaneous, changing how we think about shaping to consider the whole ABC contingency can allow us to do better training without having to struggle so much, you can set yourself and your dog up for success and it is still shaping!, there is no cheating in shaping as long as you are being honest with yourself (and your dog), and setting up for success means a lot more than just training in a low distraction environment. For full show notes, visit: This podcast is supported by Zero to CD:
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#164: Play & Aggression with Karen London
09/07/2022
#164: Play & Aggression with Karen London
In this episode, we discuss what could aggression possibly have to do with play?, the importance of engaging in play for behavioral wellness, what do we mean when we are talking about play in this context?, and how Karen incorporates play into her protocols when working with aggressive behavior. For full show notes, visit: This podcast is supported by Voilà! Pets: Because DFTT listeners have loved Voilà! Pets treat pouch so much, many color and sizes are sold out! If you're interested in trying my favorite treat pouch, add yourself to the list by clicking "Notify Me When Available" on the website. You can receive 10% off of your Voilà! Pets order by visiting the link above and using code DFTT.
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#163: Is It Really R+ or Could It Actually Be R- (With a Cherry on Top)?
08/15/2022
#163: Is It Really R+ or Could It Actually Be R- (With a Cherry on Top)?
In this episode, we discuss, can we use a tactile cue like leash pressure to train in an R+ framework or is it still just R- that we put a treat on top of to make us feel better?, putting food in the picture doesn’t necessarily make it positive reinforcement, so how can we tell what contingencies are really in play?, review what we mean by positive and negative reinforcement, an example of a situation that I thought I was training with R+ but now I’m realizing it’s really R-, despite my best intentions, questions I can ask myself (and my dog)-- am I escalating the cue or stimulus to get the behavior to happen?, do I have feelings about consequences should my dog not perform the behavior?, what happens if I apply that tactile stimulus in a different context outside of a training session?, what other behaviors - emotional behaviors and other behaviors - are happening at the same time or in this context? Are they behaviors otherwise associated with positive reinforcement? Or are they more consistent with escape/delay/avoidance?, can I use the cue (the tactile stimulus) to shape another behavior? (ala start button behaviors!)-- how to minimize the chance that a stimulus is functioning as an aversive by teaching the behavior first without that stimulus and then adding it as a cue second. For full show notes, visit: This podcast is supported by Voilà! Pets: Because DFTT listeners have loved Voilà! Pets treat pouch so much, many color and sizes are sold out! If you're interested in trying my favorite treat pouch, add yourself to the list by clicking "Notify Me When Available" on the website. You can receive 10% off of your Voilà! Pets order by visiting the link above and using code DFTT.
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#162: Working with Compulsive Behaviors Pt 2, with Dr. Michaela Hempen
08/03/2022
#162: Working with Compulsive Behaviors Pt 2, with Dr. Michaela Hempen
In this episode, we discuss a question from one of my favorite listeners about a stereotypic/compulsive tail chasing behavior in her dog, brainstorming steps one might take when unpacking a stereotypic (I’m practicing my language!) behavior problem, taking a baseline to help with staying objective about the training, identifying and testing possible variables that might be part of the antecedent, considerations when selecting a goal or replacement behavior, and layering in relevant pieces of the antecedent or trigger while maintaining a clean loop. We also get a little bit deep pondering on how much power really have to influence behavior, even ones we’d never thought we could affect. For full show notes, visit: This podcast is supported by Voilà! Pets: Because DFTT listeners have loved Voilà! Pets treat pouch so much, many color and sizes are sold out! If you're interested in trying my favorite treat pouch, add yourself to the list by clicking "Notify Me When Available" on the website. You can receive 10% off of your Voilà! Pets order by visiting the link above and using code DFTT.
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#161: Working with Compulsive Behaviors Pt 1, with Dr. Michaela Hempen
07/20/2022
#161: Working with Compulsive Behaviors Pt 1, with Dr. Michaela Hempen
In this episode, we discuss what are compulsive behaviors?, using the language of stereotypy vs compulsive to describe this category of behaviors, cribbing behavior in horses and the effects on welfare, and a case study of Blondie, including getting a baseline, changing the environment for training sessions, introducing new behaviors to expand her repertoire, the plan to integrate training into life, and where Blondie is now and the state of her cribbing behavior. For full show notes, visit: This podcast is supported by Voilà! Pets: Because DFTT listeners have loved Voilà! Pets treat pouch so much, many color and sizes are sold out! If you're interested in trying my favorite treat pouch, add yourself to the list by clicking "Notify Me When Available" on the website. You can receive 10% off of your Voilà! Pets order by visiting the link above and using code DFTT.
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#160: Spring Clean up for Dog Trainers, Pt 3: The Things We Overlook
05/28/2022
#160: Spring Clean up for Dog Trainers, Pt 3: The Things We Overlook
This week we are finishing up our Spring Cleaning series... you’ve already organized all your resources you’ve collected over the weekend, you’ve worked out a new better system for your planning and record keeping and this time you’ve got the magic one that will actually work. Now let’s get to the training itself! Wouldn’t it be cool if you kept your training clean all the time? Then there would be nothing to do here! What are the things you put off? The built up dirt and grime that’s been hidden or not so hidden? What are the things where if you tackled that project finally would make everything else easier? In this episode, we discuss cleaning up your reinforcement mechanics, sharpening reinforcement procedures like toy play skills, have you found yourself rushing your “out” lately?, managing criteria in sequences and chains, and tightening up session structure behaviors and filling in gaps. Are there any other places where your training baseboards are getting grimy? Maybe a sloppy cue you’ve been meaning to address? Some other behavior that’s been collecting dust for a while? I’d love to know what makes your list! For full show notes, visit: This podcast is supported by Patreon:
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#159: Mentorship with John Anthony Shahor
05/10/2022
#159: Mentorship with John Anthony Shahor
In this episode, we discuss what does mentorship mean?, what makes a good mentor?, what makes a good mentee?, how can you get the most out of a mentorship relationship?, and what is the most important thing to focus on to be a better mentor? For full show notes, visit: This podcast is supported by Voilà! Pets: For 10% off of your Voilà! Pets order, visit the link above or visit the Voilà! Pets website and use code DFTT.
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#158: Spring Clean up for Dog Trainers, Pt 2: Planning and Record Keeping
04/26/2022
#158: Spring Clean up for Dog Trainers, Pt 2: Planning and Record Keeping
In this episode, we discuss getting a fresh start with your planning and record keeping, what gets in the way of being your best self, where to start when nothing is working for you, looking at switching systems a little differently - regularly switching systems IS a system!, identifying what is important to you in a record keeping system and what likely obstacles will get in your way, start with a little back-chaining by recording what you are already doing, add a simple planning matrix - which days you’ll train which categories, and that plans are flexible, and so are systems! For full show notes, visit: This podcast is supported by Voilà! Pets: For 10% off of your Voilà! Pets order, visit the link above or visit the Voilà! Pets website and use code DFTT.
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#157: Rescuing RiffRaff, Pt 2: Placing a Dog With a Bite History with Gaby Boijsen
04/12/2022
#157: Rescuing RiffRaff, Pt 2: Placing a Dog With a Bite History with Gaby Boijsen
What kind of people adopt a dog with a bite history? This episode is the second in a 2-part special series following the journey of RiffRaff, a rescue dog with some seriously problematic behavior. In this episode, we discuss what was Gaby even thinking when she was working with this dog?, did she ever think about just giving up?, what kind of people would adopt a dog that bites?, and how did she arrange the transition to RiffRaff’s new home? For full show notes, visit: This podcast is supported by Voilà! Pets: For 10% off of your Voilà! Pets order, visit the link above or visit the Voilà! Pets website and use code DFTT.
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#156: Rescuing RiffRaff, Pt 1: Fostering a Dog With Aggression with Gaby Boijsen
04/05/2022
#156: Rescuing RiffRaff, Pt 1: Fostering a Dog With Aggression with Gaby Boijsen
This episode is the first in a 2-part special series following the journey of RiffRaff, a rescue dog with a tendency toward violence. This sounds like a common story, but I assure you... RiffRaff’s story does not end the way you think. No spoilers though! In this episode, we discuss what we know about RiffRaff’s history and how he ended up with Gaby, identifying the triggers of RiffRaff’s aggressive behavior, exploring possible causes of his behavior, how did Gaby decide to work with him, early steps of his training, teaching him to wear a muzzle, and getting creative with protected contact to work with RiffRaff safely. For full show notes, visit: This podcast is supported by Voilà! Pets: For 10% off of your Voilà! Pets order, visit the link above or visit the Voilà! Pets website and use code DFTT.
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#155: Spring Clean up for Dog Trainers, Pt 1: Organizing and Applying Your Hoard of Resources
03/31/2022
#155: Spring Clean up for Dog Trainers, Pt 1: Organizing and Applying Your Hoard of Resources
This week we are starting a “spring cleaning” of sorts for our training with a decluttering and organizing theme, but I’m not going to talk about how to store all your platforms and treat pouches. It has come to my attention that the biggest pile in my dog training life that is desperate for some attention is made more of information rather than equipment. I’m talking about all the information that we have hoarded, particularly over the last year - training books, classes, webinars, conferences, and even podcasts like this one! Sorting it out and hopefully even actually making use of the knowledge and APPLYING it to actual training. You know that quote... something about, if more knowledge were the answer, we’d all be millionaires with 6-pack abs? Ugh. I am assuming you are here because you are deep enough into dog training nerddom, that you are probably also sitting on a hoard of training resources, and can’t pass up the temptation to buy one more class or webinar, because THIS webinar will totally be the one that solves all your training problems. And if you are as bad as me, your “to-watch” webinar stack may be quite tall and even something of a source of shame.... because you feel you really SHOULD be reading/watching/doing the things. So let’s address that learning & information doom box and apply it to something we actually care about... our training, by using what we know about learning and behavior. In this episode we discuss curating your collection and organizing it into useful categories, steps for processing the information in your resources so that it gets out of your computer and into your head, possible obstacles that get in the way of applying that information, ideas for removing those obstacles and implementing new training knowledge, and how we might make use of “accountability” in ways that are reinforcing and, hopefully, not aversive. For full show notes, visit: This podcast is supported by Zero to CD:
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