The Art of Grief

Featuring provocative conversations with artists, creators, mental health professionals, spiritual guides and everyday people exploring the many forms of loss and grief, and the different ways we use art to cope with those feelings. The Art of Grief delves into how art is made and forged through grief, as well as how art transforms and ameliorates our experiences of loss and mourning. Co-hosted by podcast veteran, author and the chair of USC’s Gender & Sexuality Studies department, Dr. Karen Tongson, and Dr. Megan Auster-Rosen, a clinical psychologist and former Associate Medical Director of Behavioral Health at Cedars Sinai, the show is led by two queer voices who are not only experts in their fields, but also close-friends whose bond was formed by processing their histories of grief.

Finding Emotional Nourishment with Millicent Souris 05/14/2025

Finding Emotional Nourishment with Millicent Souris Writer and cook Millicent Soros joins us to explore her journey of understanding loss and the power of food to connect and heal. From early experiences of unprocessed grief to finding catharsis through cooking, Millicent shares insights on moving through pain, the fine line between coping and avoidance, and embracing the messy reality of emotions. /episode/index/show/1838a53b-bca9-4e8c-a0eb-1096046d6ed2/id/36565895

On Sports, Scripts, and Signs with Natalia Molina 03/12/2025

On Sports, Scripts, and Signs with Natalia Molina MacArthur Genius Fellow, writer and historian Natalia Molina joins us to talk about scripts of grief, as well as how we become open to signs from beyond in the processes of grieving and healing. We also discuss her award-winning essay, “How I learned the Dodgers are L.A.’s Language of Love,” which speaks with an open heart about her brother David’s unexpected death, and the celebration of their lives together beneath Dodger Blue skies in Echo Park, Los Angeles. /episode/index/show/1838a53b-bca9-4e8c-a0eb-1096046d6ed2/id/35651610

Collective Grief and the L.A. Wildfires 03/04/2025

Collective Grief and the L.A. Wildfires We are joined by voices from around the city of Los Angeles to talk about their personal experiences with the L.A. wildfires, and communal grief in the wake of these catastrophic events. We also ask about their hopes for the future not only for themselves, but our community. Guests include: Myriam Gurba, Mai-Lin Cheng, Margaret Wappler, Guy Branum, Lien Ta, Natalia Molina, Sarah Gertrude Shapiro, Colin Campbell, Carolina Miranda, and Courtney Storer. /episode/index/show/1838a53b-bca9-4e8c-a0eb-1096046d6ed2/id/35526620

The Poetics of Grief with Hala Alyan 01/06/2025

The Poetics of Grief with Hala Alyan This week we are joined by Hala Alyan, a Palestinian-American writer, poet, and clinical psychologist, who is also a professor at NYU. A specialist in trauma and cross-cultural identity, and the author of the award-winning novel Salt Houses, as well as four collections of poetry, including The Moon that Turns You Back (2024), Hala brings her expertise as a psychologist and a writer to talk about bearing witness to genocide, and the fatigue, anger and repetition that accompanies the grief of witnessing. She also reads poetry for us, and speaks openly about her own personal vulnerabilities and struggles as she considers how poetry as a form can activate connection by reaching across time and cultures, while saying what cannot be said, and what will not be heard. /episode/index/show/1838a53b-bca9-4e8c-a0eb-1096046d6ed2/id/34743045

Holiday Feelings 12/23/2024

Holiday Feelings Karen and Megan record their first holiday special, and themselves get caught off-guard by some of their own holiday feelings, including the confluence of grief and joy. Karen opens up about the difficulty of Christmas this year, as well as in years past because it was her grandmother's favorite holiday. Megan talks about seeing the holidays anew through the eyes of her two young children. They also offer words of advice about what's worked for them in the past to calm the holiday overload. /episode/index/show/1838a53b-bca9-4e8c-a0eb-1096046d6ed2/id/34592485

Grief Groups & Finding Your Place with Japhena Kay 11/25/2024

Grief Groups & Finding Your Place with Japhena Kay Bereavement facilitator, author, and host of the podcast Good Mourning Today, Japhena Kay, joins us for a candid conversation about losing her son Chase to suicide, while animating her processes of grief that have evolved and transformed in the years since. She and Megan met in a grief group specifically for those who’ve lost their loved ones to suicide, and they both reflect on the meaningfulness of that experience, especially while combatting the silence and stigma related to death by suicide. /episode/index/show/1838a53b-bca9-4e8c-a0eb-1096046d6ed2/id/34141851

Finding the Words with Colin Campbell 11/18/2024

Finding the Words with Colin Campbell In June 2019, Colin Campbell and his wife Gail Lerner lost both of their children, Ruby and Hart when a drunk driver hit their car and changed a pleasant family outing into the worst day imaginable. Megan and Karen invite Colin to discuss the book he wrote in the wake of that tragedy, Finding the Words: Working Through Profound Loss with Hope and Purpose, which offers an honest account of his journey, while providing guidance and practical tools for others going through similar experiences. /episode/index/show/1838a53b-bca9-4e8c-a0eb-1096046d6ed2/id/33972367

Post-Election Special 11/08/2024

Post-Election Special Megan and Karen check in with each other after the 2024 election, and discuss their own range of emotional responses, including grief, anger, and even a sense of tragicomedy. They also offer some thoughts around how to take care of yourselves and others during this intense, confrontational and difficult time. /episode/index/show/1838a53b-bca9-4e8c-a0eb-1096046d6ed2/id/33854837

A “Voice Stained with Grief”: Writing After Loss with Regina N. Bradley 11/05/2024

A “Voice Stained with Grief”: Writing After Loss with Regina N. Bradley This week we are joined by Dr. Regina N. Bradley, a prominent public voice on contemporary southern Black life and hip hop culture, who is the author of the widely-acclaimed book, Chronicling Stankonia: the Rise of the Hip-Hop South. Dr. Bradley candidly talks about her efforts to heal and return to a daily practice of writing, after the trauma of her grandmother’s murder at the hands of another family member two years ago. She opens up about the variations of grief she’s experienced since then, while talking about how her social, and academic, professional world sometimes come at odds with her journey to healing. /episode/index/show/1838a53b-bca9-4e8c-a0eb-1096046d6ed2/id/33786282

Visualizing Grief with Cherine Fahd 10/28/2024

Visualizing Grief with Cherine Fahd Globally renowned artist Cherine Fahd joins us to talk about the role photography plays in visualizing grief. Based in Australia, her own photographic work and writing not only celebrate the communities around her and their public lives, but delves deeply into what is more difficult to see and say, from family mourning as its captured in private photo archives, to death by suicide and the efforts to de-stigmatize infant loss through photography. In our conversation we explore, in Cherine’s words, the “uncertainties of what photography can or cannot reveal about life, death, and mourning.” /episode/index/show/1838a53b-bca9-4e8c-a0eb-1096046d6ed2/id/33634552

Father Figures with Raquel Gutierrez 10/14/2024

Father Figures with Raquel Gutierrez We welcome writer Raquel Gutierrez into our virtual studio during Mercury in Retrograde (resulting in a chirping smoke alarm and other markers of “real life” in our conversation). With a minor astrological detour, we talk about grieving the father figures within our chosen queer families, as well as our families of origin. What relations are we allowed to grieve? For Raquel, their Big Poppa was the activist and author Jeanne Córdova. We learn about their story of intergenerational mentorship, and the grief and transformation that winds its way through Raquel’s award-winning book, Brown Neon. Brown Neon (Coffeehouse Press): /episode/index/show/1838a53b-bca9-4e8c-a0eb-1096046d6ed2/id/33457782

Grief Games with Mattea Roach 10/07/2024

Grief Games with Mattea Roach Jeopardy! super champion and host of the CBC’s Bookends radio show, Mattea Roach, joins us for a candid conversation about losing their father unexpectedly while filming the Jeopardy Masters series in May 2023. Together we explore the dissonant and sometimes simultaneous experiences of grief and joy, while also honoring queer support networks and the power of our own magical thinking (for better and worse). We also get into how intellect and intuition work with and against each other in our own mental “grief games” during times of distress and loss of control. /episode/index/show/1838a53b-bca9-4e8c-a0eb-1096046d6ed2/id/33369902

Losing our Animal Family Members with Naz Riahi 09/30/2024

Losing our Animal Family Members with Naz Riahi Writer and filmmaker Naz Riahi joins us to talk about the devastation of losing our animal soulmates. What is the particular character of loss we experience when we lose the daily physical presence and companionship of our dogs, cats and other pets? What about the isolation we encounter while grieving our pets, especially because grief for non-humans can be diminished or judged as “inappropriate”? And what are the realms of spirituality we touch upon in these moments of loss? Catapult Essay on Loss of Father: /episode/index/show/1838a53b-bca9-4e8c-a0eb-1096046d6ed2/id/33250587

The Thin Line Between Laughter & Tears with Jenny Yang 09/23/2024

The Thin Line Between Laughter & Tears with Jenny Yang Comedian, writer, actor and Self Help Me-guru Jenny Yang joins us this week to talk about the thin line between laughter and tears, and the global, cumulative griefs she–and we–have experienced over the last five years. Jenny offers an emotionally honest account of her fertility challenges, and how she confronted that grief with a healing, satirical photo project using the aesthetics of “birth announcements.” Karen and Jenny compare notes about Filipino vs. Taiwanese expressions of grief, while Megan and Jenny discuss a range of therapeutic journeys, their benefits and their drawbacks. “Birth Announcements” Photo Project: /episode/index/show/1838a53b-bca9-4e8c-a0eb-1096046d6ed2/id/33176332

Premiere Episode 09/04/2024

Premiere Episode Welcome to The Art of Grief, a podcast featuring conversations between artists, creators, mental health professionals, and spiritual guides to explore the many forms of loss and grief, and the different ways we use art to cope with those feelings. In our premiere episode, you meet hosts Karen Tongson and Megan Auster-Rosen and hear about their shared histories of grief as they cut across their friendship, and their own creative and professional practices. /episode/index/show/1838a53b-bca9-4e8c-a0eb-1096046d6ed2/id/32894967

The Art of Grief

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