Making Waves On Purpose
Learning to live your purpose and manage change might be the most important skill for organizations and individuals alike. Join host Jeff Senne, Purpose / ESG and Corporate Change Expert, CEO of Sandbar Solutions and serial adventurer in conversation with experts from a wide range of spaces exploring how companies and individuals can drive change and make an impact for themselves and the world they work and live in.
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The ROI of Sustainability with Jim Hanna
08/19/2024
The ROI of Sustainability with Jim Hanna
has held corporate sustainability roles with Xanterra and Starbucks and is currently at Microsoft and working with . He is a great guy with a ton of useful insights. However, one area that he focuses on relentlessly is making the business case. While for many, that is a complex process, he nails it with simple questions: What keeps your leaders up at night, and what are they incentivized on? If you can find a way to connect sustainability to those things, you are 90% of the way there. Great conversation. Please like and subscribe!
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The Edges of Sustainability Jeff Senne and Jill Dumain in Conversation
07/25/2024
The Edges of Sustainability Jeff Senne and Jill Dumain in Conversation
56% of people beleive that capitalism does more harm than good. 70% of Americans would not help a neighbor of a different political party. What is the role of business in an increasingly polarized world? Climate, DEI, and nature are critically important issues, but so too are the institutions that support human flourishing and getting those right, and given the trusted role business has, it needs to become more comfortable in helping advance pluralism, shared value and values, advancing integrity and a balanced multi-purpose capitalism that seeks to serve shareholders, the state and stakeholders. In this rich discussion, Jill and I touch on these issues! We discuss my path into and within the space, the edges of sustainability, what drives change most successfully, and the role of values, identity, and purpose, how companies might think about steps to take to safeguard capitalism and democracy such as questioning if they will advertise on social media platforms whose business model is based on driving revenue through division and polarization, and a lot more. Enjoy, and if you like what you hear, please subscribe and like the podcast. Many thanks! Jeff
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The Role of Interpreter with Lena Pripp-Kovac
06/27/2024
The Role of Interpreter with Lena Pripp-Kovac
A rich discussion with Lena Pripp-Kovac, former Chief Sustainability Officer (CSO) for Ikea. I love the idea she presents of the CSO as an interpreter. Lena said, “During my journey in sustainability, it has become clear that one of the key roles in leading change is that of being an interpreter. I am fortunate and thankful for the many amazing people who have shared their experiences to better understand challenges from different perspectives. While translators focus on creating understanding between languages, the interpreter focuses on insight into contextual meaning, including strategic, practical and cultural purpose.” Enjoy!
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Motivating Change With Gabriel Grant
06/13/2024
Motivating Change With Gabriel Grant
Gabriel Grant is someone whose work you should know about. Over the past fifteen years, he has provided coaching and training for more than one thousand purpose-led leaders and world-class change agents, including founders and board members, and c-suite executives and directors from more than 150 major brands. I am fascinated by his thinking on what makes companies tick, especially his ideas around "The Self-determined Organization—Toward a Humanistic Theory of the Firm," which is a book he is working on. I think the idea of applying individual flourishing to organizations is fascinating and critical. His insights into how we in the sustainability space can miss the boat when it comes to internal and external motivation seem spot on to me. I know you will get a lot from this listen.
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In Conversation With Jill Dumain of Fractal CSOs
05/30/2024
In Conversation With Jill Dumain of Fractal CSOs
In conversation with Jill Dumain of Fractal CSOs. Jill offers this: What a fun opportunity to look back on some of the many experiences that I have had that led me to this place. So many people to thank who have mentored and partnered with me with some of the craziest of ideas. But now I can see how all the individual experiences add up to this new position. I feel as though I am in a good position to give back and help others avoid so many of the holes that I stepped in the last 35 years! Hope you enjoy the conversation and follow us at FractalCSOs for more! https://fractalcsos.com/
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Introducing Fractal CSOs
05/07/2024
Introducing Fractal CSOs
In this episode of Making Waves on Purpose, I am in conversation with Jill Dumain, Lena Pripp Kovac, Chad Dorgan and Jim Hanna, all partners, together with me, Jeff Senne, in Fractal CSOs. Fractal CSOs is a network of practitioners that coach companies and organizations of all shapes and sizes across various industries to move forward faster and stay on the path, whether you’re just getting started in your sustainability journey or are already well on your way. While no one has seen it all, with over 150 years in the space, we have seen a lot. This is the first of six podcasts: this one with us all and five more featuring each partner to share their unique insights into our work and the evolving space of corporate sustainability.
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Purpose as a lever of change with Bradon Peele
05/07/2024
Purpose as a lever of change with Bradon Peele
One of the hats I wear is as the volunteer Team Guardian for Global Purpose Leaders (GPL). This is a close-knit group of purpose practitioners that work on individual, organizational and societal change. In this podcast, I speak with Brandon Peele. Brandon has been a driving force in GPL for years and in the purpose space even longer. He has a deep understanding of the space, its practice and its promise. This is a must-listen for those who work to find purpose, make their businesses sustainable or are just curious about purpose. This is one for a quiet walk with the dog or with a glass of wine in front of the fire (yes, it is getting cold here in Buenos Aires). Enjoy! And please, if you like what you hear, LIKE and SUBSCRIBE. More great conversations are to come from other members of GPL.
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Celebrating Small Wins with Kyle Santos
04/26/2024
Celebrating Small Wins with Kyle Santos
Kyle Santos joined me in a great conversation on various issues and a focus on something that we in the corporate responsibility space often get wrong - celebrating small wins. Hi rightly points out that given the gravity of what we seek to address, climate change, inequality, ecosystem restoration...small steps often feel not worth celebrating. This is likely to get worse as a result of the ESG backlash and companies going quiet on their progress. We also touched on measuring versus doing, interesting tensions in the space, and much more. I am so grateful to Kyle and all my other guests for taking the time to share their insights!
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The Action of ESG with Grady Lee
02/23/2024
The Action of ESG with Grady Lee
I have been super busy with clients and travel, so my podcast frequency has suffered. But I am picking up steam again, and this is an excellent conversation with Grady Lee. Grady is the Co-Founder of Give to Get, which engages companies in bringing their purpose to life, and Social Marks, which works to create definitions around action-based metrics on the social side of ESG. His focus is on actions, strategies, and decisions that help move the company ahead in its effort to drive impact and live its purpose. He works to gather and organize data help to orient leaders on where they are regarding their competitors. I have long thought we had too great a focus on what others were doing, but his points on how ranking can help drive awareness and action are super interesting. It was a great conversation. I know you will get a lot out of it.
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Choose meaning over pleasure with Sharoni Rosenberg
01/16/2024
Choose meaning over pleasure with Sharoni Rosenberg
In this my first podcast of the year, I am in conversation with Sharoni Rosenberg. Sharoni is a leader, maybe “the leader” in the purpose space in Chile. She and I met when we both worked at PwC, and she ran PwC Chile’s purpose and ESG work. She is a courageous leader, passionate about personal and organizational purpose and committed to advancing the role of business in society. Last year, I was a guest speaker at one of her events in Santiago, Chile, and was so impressed with her program and how Chile had changed since I lived there nearly 20 years ago. It is thanks to people like Sharoni, who are driving change and a vision of a better tomorrow, that things improve. I know you will enjoy this episode. Thanks for listening. And please like and subscribe.
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The Purpose of Business with Daryl Brewster
11/28/2023
The Purpose of Business with Daryl Brewster
In this episode of Making Waves on Purpose, I am joined by Daryl Brewster, the CEO of CECP. With over 200 affiliated companies, CECP is at the forefront of a number of ESG / corporate responsibility issues and approaches. And Daryl and his team bring a very successful business-centric approach, given their previous roles in the private sector. Daryl and I discuss a wide range of issues, including how CECP is supporting companies as they wrestle with geopolitical/regional ESG issues, the political divide in the US and the blowback that some companies are experiencing from their ESG efforts. Great discussion with a great leader in the space.
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DEI in Israel with Momo Mahadav
11/06/2023
DEI in Israel with Momo Mahadav
I skipped the queue for this episode which I recorded last week with Momo Mahadav from Maala, The Israeli Business for Social Responsibility organization. I have known Momo for many years and admire him and his work, and that work has taken on a new importance in the last month. Momo shares how companies' efforts in building DEI programs and understanding have helped them during this tragic and difficult time. We kept the conservation focused on the work rather than the conflict, but it is hard not to have in the back of one's mind knowing that the air raid sirens could go off at any moment and the truly tragic conditions in Gaza. I found the idea of DEI efforts being efforts in what I would call peacebuilding (at the individual level) and the need for workplaces to be safe havens to be particularly interesting and challenged some of my thinking. I also think the simple idea of calling and checking in with people affected by the conflict, in Israel and beyond, is critical. Momo offered what I think is good advice in any situation: “Be attentive, listen to the voices.” P.S. If anyone has contact with a Palestinian CSR organization, I would love to feature what they are doing as well.
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Stranded Assets with Gregory Unruh
11/06/2023
Stranded Assets with Gregory Unruh
On this episode of Making Waves on Purpose, I am joined by Gregory Unruh. I have known Greg for 20 years, and during that time, he has always impressed me with his take on corporate responsibility and sustainability. And this conversation was further confirmation of his insight and unique viewpoint. We talk about a wide range of subjects, including standard assets, changing the rules of the game, innovation, integrated thinking and leadership. This is a deep dive into the problems we face and why they are so hard to solve. A fanstiatic discussion. As always, please like, subscribe and share.
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Beyond the Business Case with Andrew Winston
10/24/2023
Beyond the Business Case with Andrew Winston
In this Making Waves on Purpose episode, talks about going beyond the business case. While ESG, CR, and sustainability efforts have always demanded a business case, I have been thinking of what my friend said to me some 15 years ago: “Don’t over-rely on the business case; sometimes it is not there, and we still need to act.” ESG, in its original form, is all about finding investor value. And while it feels like some believe that the arrival of ESG has implied the business case is resolved, quite the opposite is true. The business case has never been more important, and companies have to get better at telling their full ESG, DEI, CR, and sustainability story and the value it drives. But what about when the business case might not be fully clear and yet action is needed? Sometimes, doing the right thing might come at a cost, or that cost or benefit is unknown. Too many companies, especially global ones, get caught up in the idea of cultural relativism, asking questions like "What is the right thing to do given cultural norms vary around the world or even around the US?" Most often, this stems from fear that applying their values might cost them business in some context. But that’s the point of values, isn't it? If values were always easy to apply, why might we need them? Aren’t they guardrails for times when we are conflicted between different values like making money and being inclusive, driving sustainability or protecting biodiversity? Do we need a business case to support women's rights? Or the rights of LGBTQ or people of color? Over the long term, I am sure there is a business case for all these issues, but it might not always be perfectly evident in the short-term view of investors. But companies need to act, nonetheless. Andrew calls this “doing the right thing.” And he points out that there is still a widespread "weird" assumption that "doing the right thing" or sustainability always costs money. We also discuss empathy in corporate strategy and planning. Andrew also pointed out something so simple and yet so profound it has remained with me: “Businesses should not be excused from right and wrong conversations." This is fundamental to the question of purpose and the role of business in society and yet continues to be pushed as branding rather than core values, identity and purpose. This was a great discussion on going beyond the business case with some deep insights, and Andrew always brings a reasoned, thoughtful, clear and compelling position. Please listen, and if you like what you hear, subscribe, give us a like and share with a friend who might find value in the conversation.
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"Tell me more about that" with Lisa Hrabluk
10/11/2023
"Tell me more about that" with Lisa Hrabluk
In this episode of Making Waves on Purpose, I speak to Lisa Hrabluk. I connected with Lisa via my good friend Christy Cook. Lisa leads Wicked Ideas, a consultancy focused on solving complex problems and the power issues surrounding them. She has a fantastic background, a super sharp mind and a fabulous ability to communicate complex ideas in understandable ways. We discussed power, status quo, changing paradigms as we move from the Industrial age to the Knowledge age, belonging, and place. I love how Lisa embraces complexity. In so many parts of our lives and work, we try to simplify things rather than accept that things are complex and not easy to understand or solve. Lisa digs in! As with many of my conversations, it could have gone much longer. I may need a more flexible format for these conversations, as this one could have kept going for an hour at least. Enjoy, and if you like what you hear, please subscribe, scroll down to give us five stars and share our content with a friend.
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Turning the Tables with Jennifer Davis
09/25/2023
Turning the Tables with Jennifer Davis
This podcast is the first episode of season two of Making Waves on Purpose. In it, Jennifer Davis, of the Jennifer Davis Media Group, turns the tables and leads the two of us in conversation. It was a fabulous and fun conversation and outlines much of the thinking I will flesh out in season two. I am so grateful to all the guests who joined season one: Georg Kell Lane Jost Celina Gorre Craig Beatty Dylan Siegler Josh Henretig Rafael Velasquez Garcia Dawnita Wilson Gib Hedstrom Zeev Klein Bea Boccalandro Mandar Apte Neil Edwards Bree Fram Erika McMullen Nandika Magdavgar Olivia Albrecht Jared Chung And to all who listened! It has been a great experience, and I have experimented with some different approaches and lots of varied topics, but all centered around the emerging role of business in the world. I can think of no more important issue, yet I worry about the overall effort. Far too many of these efforts are performative. And too few companies see this for what it needs to be: transformational. Societal issues and purpose, most of the time, remain bumper stickers rather than boardroom issues. However, that is changing, and the question is how can we ensure that these efforts develop innovation in ideas and approaches rather than compliance-based risk avoidance with some employee engagement on the side? To do so, the effort to redefine the role of business in society must be aligned with the emerging roles of government, civil society and individuals, or we create a dog’s breakfast of change. Lots more to say on this, but let’s save it for season two. On deck, in the coming weeks, we have: Andrew Winston Greg Unruh Lisa Hrabluk P.S. If you like what you hear, and I hope you do, please subscribe. I am not hoping to monetize this effort, but it does help to show potential guests that people are listening. Many thanks!
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Technology, jobs and the limits of professional identity with Jared Chung
08/29/2023
Technology, jobs and the limits of professional identity with Jared Chung
Jared Chung is a name you should know. Jared is the Founder of CareerVillage.org a technology nonprofit that crowdsources career advice for youth at a massive scale. They engage an online volunteer corps of tens of thousands of working professionals in building a huge online repository of answers to every career question you can imagine. Like Donors Choose, and Khan Academy, Career Village is an impressive non-profit that serves a need by leveraging technology and unique insights into what it takes to engage and animate users on both sides of the conversation. Amazingly, Career Village has a 99% answer rate and serves over 5 million users. Jared is smart, genuine and generous at a time when those qualities couldn’t be more needed. In our conversation, we covered lots of ground, but what struck me most was his take on how we invest too much value in the identity created by our jobs. Ponder that for a minute. This is a person who has devoted his life to helping others build their careers, yet he hopes we place less importance on the identities we gain from our careers. I love it when the podcast opens up conversation that is amazingly important, open and honest, and this was a perfect example of that. A must-listen! And if you like what you hear, please give the show a 5-star rating.
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Voluntary Carbon Markets with Olivia Albrecht
08/14/2023
Voluntary Carbon Markets with Olivia Albrecht
is CEO at , a climate finance and solutions company. While carbon offsets are a controversial topic, if we are to hold companies' feet to the fire on scope 3 emissions, they need to have all the tools available to them, including offsets. It is simply not conceivable that we can meet the need without them. Responsible offsets also drive a wide number of co-benefits, but they need to come after significant reductions and changed business models and must be additional, high quality, long term, and verifiable… and they won't come cheap, nor should they. This conversation with Oliva gives a peak into the industry and how those who are developing and selling carbon offset projects are thinking about them. A great conversation with a leader putting together a multi-disciplinary team with varied views to meet the growing need for carbon solutions.
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Through the looking glass with Nandika Magdavgar
07/31/2023
Through the looking glass with Nandika Magdavgar
In this episode, I am joined by Nanadika Madgakar, the Senior Director for Strategy and Growth for CECP. Nandika has years of experience in ESG, corporate responsibility and purpose, having worked for companies and non-profits. She also worked as a journalist in India. Her work with CECP and the CEO Investor Forum has given her a front-row seat to how company leaders and their teams are working on Integrated Long-Term Plans including key forward-looking metrics specifically focused on their company’s future growth, strategy, and risk.
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Getting it wrong with Erika McMullen
07/27/2023
Getting it wrong with Erika McMullen
I have been amazed and grateful for how many great thinkers in the space have come on the podcast and openly shared with me. It has been a real privilege and this conversation with Erika McMullen the CEO of Moxie Consulting Group proves the point. We discuss DEI, cancel culture, engaging the majority and more. I was especially grateful for her open sharing of times when she got it wrong. With so much cancel culture coming from the right and left, many are paralyzed with fear of saying or doing the wrong thing. This inhibits the change and growth we need so badly. I hope you enjoy this wonderful, authentic, and engaging conversation.
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Crucilbe moments with Bree Fram
07/17/2023
Crucilbe moments with Bree Fram
In this episode, I am in conversation with Bree Fram, Lt Col of the US Space Force. Bree is one of the highest-ranking transgender members of the military. I recently met her at the CECP summit in Boston and we struck up a conversation which we continued on the podcast. In my opinion, one of the biggest problems we face in the world is “othering." We are tribalizing our local, national, and global cultures and sub-cultures not as a means of fostering belonging but as a means of isolating and "othering." This inhibits our ability to advance on a wide variety of existential issues we face. The work being done to isolate and “other” the trans community is a perfect example of this. With the ultra-conservative wing of the GOP going after the trans community and all manner of things they consider “woke” this conversation is particularly important. Our conversation touched on a variety of topics but one that stuck with me is how doing the work to define yourself helps you become a better leader and a better person. We become more aware of ourselves, our experiences, and how they mold our opinions and therefore more aware of how they do the same for others. These "crucible moments" drive empathy and understanding which may well be the most important leadership trait of all. A great conversation that I am sure all will be inspired, informed, and energized by.
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Doing the work with Neil Edwards
06/29/2023
Doing the work with Neil Edwards
Neil Edwards of , works at that intersection of personal and organizational purpose, values, and optimizing potential. He believes that both organizations and individuals need to focus on building trust & creating the future, which requires profound intimacy. I have always been impressed by Neil. I find him thoughtful, calm, insightful, and just a really interesting person. I am sure you will feel the same. We discuss polarization, inclusion, choices, conversation, common interests, and much more.
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Peace building with Mandar Apte
06/16/2023
Peace building with Mandar Apte
Lots has changed for me in the last year and a half. Most profoundly, I began to meditate and it has been a revelation. Mandar Apte found meditation nearly 20 years ago and committed his life since then to teach meditation practice and support others on their transformational journeys including over 2000 executives at Shell, where he worked. Since leaving Shell he has integrated this inner development work during workshops for corporate clients helping them on their purpose journeys, as well as to community leaders, former gang members, and police officers to become better peacebuilders. For more about his work; Mandar’s documentary film-based module on peace education is a worthy watch; and use this special 50% discount code: TAKE50BTC A fascinating man doing important work. I hope you enjoy.
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Making work more meaningful with Bea Boccalandro
05/25/2023
Making work more meaningful with Bea Boccalandro
Bea Boccalandro is special. She has the energy, enthusiasm, and intellect to tackle big problems and has recently focused on job purposing. She published a book on the topic, , and recently spoke at a I recommend both as she has a knack for taking ideas and making them practical and ring true with the real-world experience many have at work. A great conversation with a great human being!
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Red companies and blue companies, oh my with Zeev Klein
05/10/2023
Red companies and blue companies, oh my with Zeev Klein
Zeev is the CEO and Co-founder of Landmark Ventures. I worked with Zeev and his team for many years while I was at PwC and they are really quite amazing. 5 or 6 years ago Zeev and I were talking about the evolution of corporate responsibility (insert whatever term you like best here) and he said that he thought this was all going to where we would have red companies and blue companies. He was right, and when Disney and Bud Light came under fire for being part of the "woke mob" I knew I had to bring him on the podcast. Great conversation with one of the most interesting people I know.
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Governance, the unsung hero of ESG with Gib Hedstrom
05/04/2023
Governance, the unsung hero of ESG with Gib Hedstrom
"You have to lead with governance," says Gib Hedstrom. How are we going to create value? How do we truly integrate ESG into our purpose? How do we integrate ESG into our operations and culture? These are some of the meaty questions we dig into on in this episode. Gib Hedstrom has been working in the space for many years and works with a wide variety of companies in advancing their business impact goals. His work on has given him a front-row seat on how companies are designing strategies to reap and provide value. And his take on the need for more of a focus on strategy and governance is much needed.
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DEI and the Golden Rule with Dawnita Wilson
04/21/2023
DEI and the Golden Rule with Dawnita Wilson
"We have to get to a place where we care as much about how things impact others as we care about how it impacts us." Dawnita Wilson Please read that again and let it sink in ............ Isn't that the whole nut? If we can move to this mindset, doesn't that give us one of the missing skills to figure out the rest? It seems like this improved version of the golden rule - do unto others as they would like, rather than you would like, is a good way to enter into thinking about bias, privilege, and how the majority (like me) can engage in the DEI movement. That was a powerful takeaway for me following my conversation with . Few have as much experience in the DEI space and I found our conversation super open and honest. This was especially interesting and we had only recently been introduced by a mutual friend, @Christy Cook. Enjoy.
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Migration, Mexico and the last mile with Rafael Velasquez Garcia
03/27/2023
Migration, Mexico and the last mile with Rafael Velasquez Garcia
ESG involves a whole range of geopolitical, international development, and stakeholder and shareholder expectations. For example, migration can be a great positive for countries and businesses but also a real challenge. This is especially true as globalism is under attack and nationalism is on the rise. In this conversation with Rafael Velasquez Garcia from the International Rescue Committee, we discussed his role and the issues being faced in Mexico as a result of migration. Raf is a good friend. We met at the United Nations University for Peace, where we both got Masters in international Peace studies. I went on to marry my interest in fostering the public good with my private sector experience in a career focused on corporate responsibility and sustainability. Raf went a different route working in some of the world's most challenging conflict zones on some of the most difficult challenges.
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Climate Intelligence with Josh Henretig
03/27/2023
Climate Intelligence with Josh Henretig
Determining ways businesses can help solve the climate crisis is tricky and requires collaboration, data, and deep analysis. This is exactly what the team at RMI that Josh leads is doing. Josh is a Managing Director at RMI, leading the Climate Intelligence Program, which focuses on applying data and technology to differentiate climate performance across material and energy industries and their associated value chains. The Climate Intelligence team works to enhance emissions visibility via open-source data platforms; advance carbon accounting systems that attribute emissions at various levels (corporate, facility, asset, product, etc.); establish and/or harmonize standards and marketplaces that allow us to differentiate the emissions intensity of raw materials, goods, and services; and advance the digital infrastructure and exchanges for tracing, valuing, and transacting these differentiated goods and services.
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GreenBiz, the curators of change with Dylan Siegler
03/20/2023
GreenBiz, the curators of change with Dylan Siegler
Dylan Siegler is the SVP and Senior Analyst at Greenbiz. has spent nearly two decades building better environmental and social impacts in the nonprofit and public sectors and the Fortune 500. Prior to GreenBiz, she was a lead strategist on the social innovation team at Verizon. We had a great conversation about the recent GreenBiz conference and where Greenbiz is going. I see GreenBiz as more than a media and events company and more like playing a curator role. Of course, they are a for-profit company, but this is where I see their growth aligned to the growth of the movement as more and more seek to learn from each other on the role that business plays in solving the climate crisis and related issues. Dylan is someone you should know.
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