Bottom Up

What issues matter most to young lawyers? Where can new lawyers go to find career advice, professional insights, practice tips, and more? Bottom Up is a podcast dedicated to examining today’s legal challenges. Produced by the State Bar of Wisconsin and hosted by Emil Ovbiagele, founder of a Milwaukee-based law firm, and in-house counsel Kristen Hardy, each episode features frank discussions and relatable stories that highlight the interests and opportunities for attorneys working to establish their practice their way.

Episode 24: Listening to Lawyers and Practice Pulse Join the Podcast Mix in 2025 12/30/2024

Episode 23: A Path to Sports Law with Milwaukee Bucks Chief Legal Officer Mike Sneathern 11/26/2024

Episode 22: Data Privacy and Artificial Intelligence (AI) with Hiriam Bradley 09/30/2024

Episode 21: Finding Your Niche with YLD President Anthony Procaccio 07/31/2024

Episode 20: Making the Most of Summer Law Clerkships, Tips for First Year Associates 06/29/2024

Episode 20: Making the Most of Summer Law Clerkships, Tips for First Year Associates In this episode of the Bottom Up podcast, produced by the State Bar of Wiscondsin, co-hosts Emil Ovbiagele and Kristen Hardy discuss their experiences as young lawyers and the importance of law clerkships. They are joined by first-year associate Kate Goodhart and summer law clerk Dan Underwood, who share their perspectives. The conversation covers what employers look for in a good clerk, the importance of mentorship, and the value of doing impactful work. The hosts and guests also share their own experiences and offer advice for law students and young lawyers. Participants discuss the importance of owning mistakes and learning from them. They emphasize the need for grace from employers and the understanding that mistakes are a part of the learning process. They also highlight the significance of soft skills, such as punctuality, attention to detail, and curiosity. The conversation then shifts to the impact of technology, particularly AI, on the legal profession. The participants express concerns about job security and the impact of technology. They conclude by offering advice to new lawyers, including being themselves, embracing new learning opportunities, asking questions, getting involved, and being resilient. Chapters 00:00 Introduction and Catching Up 06:13 The Value of Law Clerkships 11:10 What Employers Look for in a Good Clerk 13:28 The Importance of Mentorship in Law Clerkships 16:18 Doing Impactful Work as a Law Clerk 27:07 Seeking Opportunities and Making Connections as a Law Clerk 29:54 Owning Mistakes and Learning 32:42 The Importance of Soft Skills 37:54 The Impact of Technology on Job Security 45:18 The Role of Lawyers in Regulating AI 51:38 Advice for New Lawyers Takeaways Law clerks should be teachable, have a strong work ethic, and be willing to learn and grow. Employers look for candidates who are curious, coachable, and have a likable personality. Law clerks should seek out opportunities to do impactful work and make connections with their employers. It is important for law clerks to ask for feedback and constructive criticism to improve their skills. Law students and young lawyers should be open to exploring different areas of law and figuring out what they enjoy and excel at. Owning mistakes and learning from them is crucial in the legal profession. Employers should show grace and provide opportunities for new lawyers to fail and learn. Soft skills, such as punctuality and attention to detail, are important for success in the legal profession. Advice for new lawyers includes being themselves, embracing new learning opportunities, asking questions, getting involved, and being resilient. /episode/index/show/3190278a-23f3-4d91-8a66-7ca3b6078a46/id/31939097

Episode 19: Stress, Sleep Deprivation, and Lawyer Wellness with Amber Ault 05/31/2024

Episode 18: The Parade of Horribles in Legal Malpractice Claims with WILMIC CEO Tom Watson 04/29/2024

Episode 18: The Parade of Horribles in Legal Malpractice Claims with WILMIC CEO Tom Watson Attorney Tom Watson, the featured guest in the latest episode of the Bottom Up Podcast produced by the State Bar of Wisconsin, knows what it means to reinvent yourself. Tom started his career in broadcast radio. He interviewed big names like Bill Clinton, Jesse Jackson, entertainer Red Skelton, and others. At age 37, Tom enrolled in law school. He's now the CEO and president of Wisconsin Lawyers Mutual Insurance Company (WILMIC). From radio to public relations, from family law attorney to legal malpractice insurance executive, Tom talks about his multi-phased career path before diving deep into the world of legal malpractice insurance, and the parade of horribles. Co-host Emil Ovbiagele and guest host Joe Forward steer the conversation with Tom, who has been with WILMIC for almost two decades. They learn that Tom approaches his role in helping lawyers with enthusiasm and deep knowledge of the legal malpractice insurance industry. Tom says estate planning continues to be a high-risk area, as claims can come from disenfranchised, third-party beneficiaries. But he also says claims that stem from cyber fraud and/or social engineering are on the rise, and lawyers should be on the lookout. Tom, a natural storyteller, shares stories about "craziest claims" he's seen in his two decades at WILMIC. Throughout the show, Tom provides advice for lawyers in their early years and beyond. That includes taking time to build relationships, being patient with success, and finding your passion. Chapters 00:00: The Great American Eclipse and Tom Watson, the Early Years 19:32: From Radio to Law 29:46: The Importance of Showing Up 38:37: The Growing Threat of Social Engineering and Cyber Fraud 52:40: The Need for Malpractice Insurance 1:02:16: Challenges in Estate Planning and Disputes 1:11:45: Other Common Areas for Malpractice Claims 1:25:01: The Flexibility of a JD in Career Choices /episode/index/show/3190278a-23f3-4d91-8a66-7ca3b6078a46/id/31041998

Episode 17: Overcoming Imposter Syndrome with Samantha Huddleston Baker 03/26/2024

Episode 17: Overcoming Imposter Syndrome with Samantha Huddleston Baker Ever heard of imposter syndrome? In this episode of the Bottom Up podcast, produced by the State Bar of Wisconsin, co-host Emil Ovbiagele and guest host Joe Forward interview Samantha Huddleston Baker, a partner at OVB Law and Consulting S.C. in Milwaukee. They discuss impostor syndrome and carving out paths in the early years of a legal career. Samantha shares her background and journey to law school, as well as her experience joining the law firm and overcoming impostor syndrome. She also talks about finding her path in business and real estate law. The conversation concludes with a discussion on the dynamic between partners and associates. In this episode, the hosts discuss the challenges faced by young attorneys in the early years of their careers. They advise navigating these challenges, including how to effectively use support staff, deal with imposter syndrome, cultivate trust with clients, and handle difficult feedback. They emphasize the importance of confidence, communication, and continuous learning in building a successful legal career. Takeaways Impostor syndrome is common among young lawyers and can make them feel inadequate or like they are pretending to be something they're not. Overcoming impostor syndrome requires preparation, hard work, and a willingness to ask for help and seek guidance from more experienced attorneys. Finding a path in a specific area of law often comes through experience and working with clients who give opportunities to learn and grow. The dynamic between partners and associates can sometimes create a fear of bothering the partner with questions, but it's important for associates to ask for help and not spend unnecessary time on tasks that could be resolved quickly with guidance. Do initial work to understand the subject matter before asking questions. Be persistent and confident in asking for help. Don't be afraid to challenge more experienced attorneys respectfully. Build a network of mentors and peers for support and guidance. Avoid comparing yourself to others and focus on your own progress Chapters 00:00 Introduction 02:24 Impostor Syndrome and Carving Out Paths in Early Years of a Legal Career 08:10 Background and Journey to Law School 13:17 Joining the Law Firm and Overcoming Impostor Syndrome 23:37 Dealing with Impostor Syndrome and Fear 30:09 Defining Impostor Syndrome and Overcoming It 33:32 Dynamic Between Partners and Associates 34:58 Navigating the Early Years as a Young Attorney 46:08 Challenges Faced as a New Attorney 55:55 Using Support Staff Effectively 58:08 Dealing with Imposter Syndrome 01:00:05 Cultivating Trust with Clients 01:02:37 Comparing Career Progress with Peers 01:05:52 Handling Difficult Feedback /episode/index/show/3190278a-23f3-4d91-8a66-7ca3b6078a46/id/30550583

Episode 16: Helping Victims of Human Trafficking, a Hidden Crime, with Erika Petty 01/31/2024

Episode 16: Helping Victims of Human Trafficking, a Hidden Crime, with Erika Petty Simply defined, human trafficking is the exploitation of human beings for someone else's gain, according to Erika Petty, executive director at Milwaukee-based Lotus Legal Clinic, a nonprofit that provides free legal services exclusively to victims of human trafficking. As you'll discover in Episode 16 of the Bottom Up podcast, produced by the State Bar of Wisconsin, while human trafficking can be simply defined, the complexity of the issue spans the nation and the globe, and hits home right here in Wisconsin. To close out January, which is National Human Trafficking Prevention Month, Bottom Up co-host Kristen Hardy sat down with Petty to discuss the complexities of the human trafficking problem. Along the way, we hear about the different ways in which human traffickers identify vulnerable people or populations and use that to exploit them for financial and other gain. We hear how victims are forced and coerced to commit crimes and give up all autonomy, making it difficult or impossible to escape, as the victim often depends on their traffickers for survival. We hear how victims are lured with promises into isolated situations, and forced into unpaid labor. "Trafficking is definitely a hidden crime and there can be red flags, but those red flags are only going to be visible if the victim is engaging in society in a way in which people are looking out for that person," said Petty, noting that traffickers know how to keep victims isolated. But Petty also provides hope, and pathways for lawyers and others to help, through the donation of time or resources. Her work and the work of Lotus Legal Clinic involves the enforcement of crime victims' rights, criminal record relief, civil legal services involving housing, credit repair, workplace protections, and other issues. The clinic also helps victims on a pathway to healing. /episode/index/show/3190278a-23f3-4d91-8a66-7ca3b6078a46/id/29741338

Episode 15: Hustle, Humility and 63 years in Law Practice with Litigator Frank Gimbel 12/29/2023

Episode 14 (Part 2): Solo & Small Firms - Generational Differences and Technology and Practice Management 11/30/2023

Episode 14 (Part 2): Solo & Small Firms - Generational Differences and Technology and Practice Management As younger lawyers enter the profession, how do they collaborate and communicate effectively with older generations, who may collaborate differently? What are the current trends, challenges, and opportunities for solo and small firms in the practice management and technology space? These are some of the questions that co-host Emil Ovbiagele and Joe Forward (guest host) explore with guests Erin Ogden and Brent Hoeft. This is the second episode in a two-parter focused on solo and small firms, recorded from the 2023 Wisconsin Solo & Small Firm Conference. Erin Ogden – a partner and co-founder of Ogden Glazer+Schaefer in Madison – dives into smaller firm practice management issues (first 23:19). The pandemic, she says, caused a seismic shift in how law firms operate. In addition, younger generations are entering the profession with a whole new perspective on effective communication through the use of technology. “The way I manage is not going to be the same as someone who was [born in the 2000s],” Ogden says. “Not in a bad way. Diversification is key. They are coming up with new ideas and new ways of looking at things. In addition, we do a lot of work with [younger clients]. How do I talk to them?" She noted that email may not be a primary form of communication for younger generations. In the second segment (starting at 23:20), Brent Hoeft discusses the challenges and opportunities that rapidly evolving technology brings to solo and small firm practice. Hoeft, who started a virtual law practice as a solo practitioner over a decade ago, is the new practice management advisor for the State Bar’s (also known as Practice 411™). Hoeft highlights common technology issues, how different generations approach privacy and security (and what that means for law firms), the opportunities to save significant time and money using evolving technology, and how Practice 411 can help as a member benefit. /episode/index/show/3190278a-23f3-4d91-8a66-7ca3b6078a46/id/28871408