The Gist

For thirty minutes each day, Pesca challenges himself and his audience, in a responsibly provocative style, and gets beyond the rigidity and dogma. The Gist is surprising, reasonable, and willing to critique the left, the right, either party, or any idea.

Escaping the Nazis. Then Going Back 06/30/2025

Escaping the Nazis. Then Going Back Daniel Kehlmann joins to discuss The Director, his novel reimagining the life of G.W. Pabst—a brilliant German filmmaker who escaped the Nazis, only to voluntarily return. Kehlmann grapples with how much human suffering we’re willing to accept as the cost of art. Later, Ben Wittes of Lawfare weighs in on the often exasperating logic behind international laws governing conflict. Plus, Republicans can either oppose Trump or stay in office—but not both. Produced by Corey Wara Production Coordinator Ashley Khan Email us at To advertise on the show, contact ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ or visit Subscribe to The Gist: Subscribe to The Gist Youtube Page: Subscribe to The Gist Instagram Page: Follow The Gist List at: /episode/index/show/3328c40e-bf42-4dd8-99d7-424929d28245/id/37204655

The Cuomo Special 06/28/2025

The Cuomo Special Today on The Gist, we go back into the vaults to our 2023 interview with Melissa DeRosa about her book on working with Andrew Cuomo, What's Left Unsaid: My Life at the Center of Power, Politics & Crisis. Then we play a Spiel from earlier in the week about Andrew Cuomo failing to get the Democratic nomination for mayor. Produced by Corey Wara Production Coordinator Ashley Khan Email us at To advertise on the show, contact ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ or visit Subscribe to The Gist: Subscribe to The Gist Youtube Page: Subscribe to The Gist Instagram Page: Follow The Gist List at: /episode/index/show/3328c40e-bf42-4dd8-99d7-424929d28245/id/37199515

The Wars We Carry: From Iraq To Port-au-Prince 06/27/2025

The Wars We Carry: From Iraq To Port-au-Prince Jim O’Grady and Thomas Brennan discuss Reveal’s episode on the Marines who fought in Fallujah, exploring how the battle’s brutality and moral injuries still haunt them 20 years later. In the Spiel, Haiti’s use of drones against gangs runs up against the oddity of international law experts declaring such violence not technically an “armed conflict.” Plus, a SCOTUS decision that pits lower courts against each other. Produced by Corey Wara Production Coordinator Ashley Khan Email us at To advertise on the show, contact ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ or visit Subscribe to The Gist: Subscribe to The Gist Youtube Page: Subscribe to The Gist Instagram Page: Follow The Gist List at: /episode/index/show/3328c40e-bf42-4dd8-99d7-424929d28245/id/37199005

Closed Schools, Closed Minds 06/27/2025

Closed Schools, Closed Minds David Zweig, author of An Abundance of Caution: American Schools, the Virus, and a Story of Bad Decisions, discusses public health’s blind spots—and when caution became the risk. Plus, Robert F. Kennedy Jr. reshapes the CDC’s vaccine advisory panel, swapping experts for skeptics and dredging up the long-debunked thimerosal panic on his way to declaring war on mayonnaise. And in the Spiel: a U.S. strike on Iran’s Fordow facility may have been less obliteration than “oblit-ish-ation,” though both the administration and its critics are spinning narratives faster than centrifuges. Produced by Corey Wara Production Coordinator Ashley Khan Email us at To advertise on the show, contact ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ or visit Subscribe to The Gist: Subscribe to The Gist Youtube Page: Subscribe to The Gist Instagram Page: Follow The Gist List at: /episode/index/show/3328c40e-bf42-4dd8-99d7-424929d28245/id/37176565

The High Point of Mt. Mamdani? 06/25/2025

The High Point of Mt. Mamdani? Zohran Mamdani is likely the next mayor of New York, and progressive enthusiasm is peaking—along with demands that you pronounce his name correctly. Andrew Cuomo, a man of few smiles and even fewer surrogates, concedes with the warmth of a trooper lawsuit. Mike considers whether this is Mamdani’s political high-water mark, as voters begin to discover the costs, the quotes, and the Disney press junkets. Also on the show: journalist David Zweig joins to discuss An Abundance of Caution: American Schools, t /episode/index/show/3328c40e-bf42-4dd8-99d7-424929d28245/id/37164970

Tehran Target Acquired...Damaged...Destroyed...Debated 06/24/2025

Tehran Target Acquired...Damaged...Destroyed...Debated Jerusalem Post military correspondent Yonah Jeremy Bob, co-author of Target Tehran: How Israel Is Using Sabotage, Cyberwarfare, Assassination—and Secret Diplomacy—to Stop a Nuclear Iran and Create a New Middle East, explains how Israel coordinated hundreds of strikes and infiltrations across Iran, what the U.S. MOP strike on Fordow actually accomplished, and why Netanyahu’s longtime caution gave way to a high-stakes gamble. He also delves into internal Israeli debates over assassinating Khamenei, the /episode/index/show/3328c40e-bf42-4dd8-99d7-424929d28245/id/37152055

Fordow The Mop Tolls 06/23/2025

Fordow The Mop Tolls The United States has bombed Iranian nuclear facilities—an extraordinary military action authorized by a President who campaigned against prolonged wars. In today’s interview, national security expert Michael Allen, host of NatSec Matters, offers insight into the Israeli strikes, Iran’s capacity to respond, and what Trump’s decision means for the region and the world. Plus, we weigh the risks of a quagmire against the reactions from MAGA loyalists who only just learned how to pronounce “Fordow.” /episode/index/show/3328c40e-bf42-4dd8-99d7-424929d28245/id/37152060

Chuck Todd and Mike Pesca Join On The Chuck ToddCast 06/21/2025

Chuck Todd and Mike Pesca Join On The Chuck ToddCast Mike's Recent appearance on Chuck Todds Podcast "The Chuck ToddCast" /episode/index/show/3328c40e-bf42-4dd8-99d7-424929d28245/id/37152065

Funny You Should Mention: Rosebud Baker 06/20/2025

Funny You Should Mention: Rosebud Baker Rosebud Baker joins Funny You Should Mention with the rare gift of making life’s toughest moments hilarious, and a point of view that’s inseparable from the punchline. Her Netflix special Motherlode delivers pregnancy, parenting, and political edge in one biting package. We talk about her SNL writing process and how to satirize breastfeeding pressure without becoming a parenting brand. Plus: how riding a dolphin convinced her husband to get a hair transplant. /episode/index/show/3328c40e-bf42-4dd8-99d7-424929d28245/id/37152070

Pesca Plus Special: Arlie Hochschild 06/19/2025

Pesca Plus Special: Arlie Hochschild Today on The Gist, we are sharing a Pesca Plus episode on this Holiday to give you a taste of what you can get by being a Pesca Plus Member. Weekly longer episodes, Ad Free listening and more. Click the links below to subscribe. /episode/index/show/3328c40e-bf42-4dd8-99d7-424929d28245/id/37152075

Unsympathetic Empathy 06/18/2025

Unsympathetic Empathy Veteran diplomat Stuart Eizenstat joins The Gist to discuss The Art of Diplomacy: How American Negotiators Reached Historic Agreements That Changed the World, drawing on his work from Camp David to Holocaust reparations. He shares what it means to practice “unsympathetic empathy,” how German officials came to see moral obligation in restitution, and why negotiations fail when mutual interest is absent. Eizenstat contrasts the courage of leaders like Sadat and the UAE’s Mohammed bin Zayed with Arafat� /episode/index/show/3328c40e-bf42-4dd8-99d7-424929d28245/id/37152080

Helen Lewis on Dead Parents, Paper Animals, And The Politics of Genius 06/17/2025

Helen Lewis on Dead Parents, Paper Animals, And The Politics of Genius Helen Lewis discusses The Genius Myth: A Curious History of a Dangerous Idea, her critique of how society defines—and distorts—the concept of genius. From Hans Eysenck’s wildly specific formula (preferably Jewish, born in February, lose a parent before age 10) to Picasso denying his granddaughter a paper animal because “this is the work of Picasso,” Lewis explores how mythmaking inflates flawed men into icons. Plus, negotiations aren't the goal—the goal is the goal. Negotiations are just a way t /episode/index/show/3328c40e-bf42-4dd8-99d7-424929d28245/id/37055790

What Could Go Right, And Why We Rarely Hear About It 06/16/2025

What Could Go Right, And Why We Rarely Hear About It Zachary Karabell of The Progress Network and the What Could Go Right podcast lays out a case for “edgy optimism,” highlighting under-covered wins in medicine, education, and public policy. From New Mexico’s universal childcare to gene therapies for sickle cell disease, he argues the problem isn’t a lack of progress—it’s our inability to notice. Plus, a new U.S. ad from Benjamin Netanyahu adapts the famous Talmudic credo “Rise and Kill First” into something just a little more TV-friendly. /episode/index/show/3328c40e-bf42-4dd8-99d7-424929d28245/id/37055795

The Gist List Live with Kat Rosenfield 06/14/2025

The Gist List Live with Kat Rosenfield Replay of the interview Mike Pesca did with Kat Rosenfield on The Gist List. Click the link below to subscribe for free to The Gist List. /episode/index/show/3328c40e-bf42-4dd8-99d7-424929d28245/id/37025065

Putting Death Metal On Your Plants Playlist: Is That Bs? 06/13/2025

Putting Death Metal On Your Plants Playlist: Is That Bs? In another edition of Is That BS? Sadie Dingfelder joins to ask: is chatting with your ficus legit, or just verbal compost? The science of sound and strawberries might surprise you. Then in The Spiel, Mike breaks down Israel’s sweeping strike on Iran—targeting nuclear sites, scientists, and generals—in what may be a turning point for the region and for Ukraine. Also, New York Democrats choose between a grocery-store socialist and a mispronouncing Cuomo in just 11 days. /episode/index/show/3328c40e-bf42-4dd8-99d7-424929d28245/id/37025070

Not Even Mad: Allison Schraeger and Matt Yglesias 06/12/2025

Not Even Mad: Allison Schraeger and Matt Yglesias Economist Allison Schraeger and Slow Boring’s Matt Yglesias join Mike to discuss the unrest in Los Angeles — and how to protest without giving Donald Trump a win. Then, the trio surveys the NYC mayoral mess — or, if not a mess, whatever government-run grocery stores are. Plus, the Big Beautiful Bill is only one of those things, and it’s the worse one. Goat Grinders: summer smells, promiscuous earbuds, and that final month of school when they stop even pretending to educate the children. /episode/index/show/3328c40e-bf42-4dd8-99d7-424929d28245/id/36980970

Inside the Only Trump Trial (So Far) 06/12/2025

Inside the Only Trump Trial (So Far) New York Times reporter Jonah Bromwich joins to discuss Dragon on Centre Street: New York v. Donald J. Trump, his journalist account of the only Trump trial that resulted in a verdict. They explore how Alvin Bragg revived a politically fraught case using a little-known state election statute, and how, despite prosecutors’ storytelling edge in court, Trump’s narrative skills ultimately resonated more strongly with voters. Bromwich delves into the balancing act between legal ethics and electoral /episode/index/show/3328c40e-bf42-4dd8-99d7-424929d28245/id/36980975

The Ghost Lab — Bigfoot, Ghosts, and Government Distrust in the Granite State 06/10/2025

The Ghost Lab — Bigfoot, Ghosts, and Government Distrust in the Granite State Author Matt Hongoltz-Hetling returns with The Ghost Lab, a rollicking deep dive into New Hampshire’s paranormal subculture, where Bigfoot lurks behind every maple tree and alien abductees fill out grant forms. He profiles a ghost-hunting crew that includes a psychic medium, a paranormal paralegal, and a Bigfoot believer who swears the aliens took him more than once. What starts as a tour of fringe science becomes a sharp look at America’s low-trust spiral—where more people believe in demons than in t /episode/index/show/3328c40e-bf42-4dd8-99d7-424929d28245/id/36980980

Jay Inslee vs. the Climate Polling Problem 06/09/2025

Jay Inslee vs. the Climate Polling Problem Former Washington Governor Jay Inslee argues Democrats can win on climate—if they frame it as jobs, savings, and health, not just apocalypse. He points to his state’s 62–38 vote preserving ambitious emissions policy, even in red counties, as proof voters can be persuaded. But national polls rank climate near the bottom of priorities, and skeptics like Matt Yglesias say the green agenda may be driving voters away. Plus: it has become ordinary to label events extraordinary—plus the Spiel sorts hype f /episode/index/show/3328c40e-bf42-4dd8-99d7-424929d28245/id/36980985

The Gist List Live with Ben Dreyfuss 06/07/2025

The Gist List Live with Ben Dreyfuss Replay of the interview Mike Pesca did with Ben Dreyfuss on The Gist List. Click the link below to subscribe for free to The Gist List. /episode/index/show/3328c40e-bf42-4dd8-99d7-424929d28245/id/36980990

Funny You Should Mention: Chris Turner 06/06/2025

Funny You Should Mention: Chris Turner Comedian, freestyler, and archaeology grad Chris Turner joins the show to explain how a middle-class British kid became one of the most dazzling improv lyricists in comedy. From his early days writing one-liners to mesmerizing crowds at the Comedy Cellar with rhymes about chlamydia, Hispaniola, and Jerry Springer, Turner charts a path that makes no sense—until you see it live. He talks about bombing in polite accents, fax machines causing drive-by shootings, and why freestyling is more like tennis than /episode/index/show/3328c40e-bf42-4dd8-99d7-424929d28245/id/36980995

Lawless: A Storm of Shade and Sneering 06/05/2025

Lawless: A Storm of Shade and Sneering Leah Litman, author of Lawless: The Supreme Court Runs on Conservative Grievance, Fringe Theories, and Bad Vibes, argues that originalism masks a partisan project, while critics counter that Roe’s reversal doesn't require conspiracy. Her pop culture–infused book uses The Barbie Movie, American Psycho, and Arrested Development to advance critiques of the conservative court. Plus, the NYC mayoral debate crammed nine candidates into two chaotic hours, yielding more zingers than substance. And in the S /episode/index/show/3328c40e-bf42-4dd8-99d7-424929d28245/id/36981000

Getting on Leah Litman's Case 06/04/2025

Getting on Leah Litman's Case Law Professor Leah Litman, author of Lawless: How the Supreme Court Runs on Conservative Grievance, Fringe Theories, and Bad Vibes argues that the current Supreme Court operates as a vessel for conservative grievance, with its most consequential 6–3 rulings forming the true shape of its ideological project. Litman insists those rulings matter more than any others—but is that because they affect more lives, or because non-6–3 decisions muddy the thesis? Along the way, she’s not afraid to indulge in /episode/index/show/3328c40e-bf42-4dd8-99d7-424929d28245/id/36981005

Revolutionary Fog and Folly 06/03/2025

Revolutionary Fog and Folly Pulitzer Prize–winner Rick Atkinson joins to discuss The Fate of the Day: The War for America, Fort Ticonderoga to Charleston, 1777 to 1780, the second volume in his Revolutionary War trilogy. He explores the crucial but often-overlooked role of France, the underestimated grit of American generals, and the British strategic failures rooted in imperial delusion. Also in the show: Geert Wilders' far-right party pulls out of the Dutch coalition, prompting a government collapse. Immigration strains, war disp /episode/index/show/3328c40e-bf42-4dd8-99d7-424929d28245/id/36981010

Obama’s Elon 06/02/2025

Obama’s Elon Aneesh Chopra, America’s first-ever Chief Technology Officer under Obama, joins The Gist to assess Elon Musk’s rebranded takeover of government tech via “Doge.” He outlines how the US Digital Service began under Obama, evolved during Trump’s first term, and now—chainsaw and hat aside—retains surprising policy continuity across administrations. Plus, even as a Colorado hate crime occurs under the banner of "Free Palestine", it's important to remember that violent people perpetuate violent act /episode/index/show/3328c40e-bf42-4dd8-99d7-424929d28245/id/36981015

Mike Stops by The Reason Roundtable 05/31/2025

Mike Stops by The Reason Roundtable Mike joins The Reason Roundtable Podcast to talk about Trump's War on Harvard. /episode/index/show/3328c40e-bf42-4dd8-99d7-424929d28245/id/36981020

Ben Ansell on FAFO, FADFO, and the Myth of Immediate Consequence 05/30/2025

Ben Ansell on FAFO, FADFO, and the Myth of Immediate Consequence Oxford political scientist Ben Ansell discusses the meme-worthy but deeply explanatory concept of FAFO—f**k around and find out—and its subtler cousin FADFO, where reckless policy choices oddly fail to produce blowback. Why bad ideas often go unpunished, from Brexit to tariffs to defund-the-police slogans and MMT. Ansell argues that liberal democracies build buffers that delay "finding out," which populists and ideologues exploit. Plus, thoughts on the limits of idealism in higher ed diplomacy, especial /episode/index/show/3328c40e-bf42-4dd8-99d7-424929d28245/id/36981025

Bark Buttons: “Who Let the Dogs Talk?” 05/29/2025

Bark Buttons: “Who Let the Dogs Talk?” Today on The Gist: Sadie Dingfelder returns for an “Is That BS?” segment to investigate dog talking buttons—those viral gadgets that claim to give pets a voice. Are dogs actually communicating abstract thoughts, or is it all one big squeaky placebo? Then, a look at Trump’s trade policy unraveling —cue the Wall Street “TACO trade” (Trump Always Chickens Out). Finally, a Guardian article on defund-the-police “successes” that flat out ignores shocking homicide stats. /episode/index/show/3328c40e-bf42-4dd8-99d7-424929d28245/id/36981030

Tusk Talk: Why Cuomo Leads and the Subways Smell Like Sh*t 05/28/2025

Tusk Talk: Why Cuomo Leads and the Subways Smell Like Sh*t Political strategist and author Bradley Tusk joins to diagnose the 2025 New York City mayor’s race—why voters seem fine with Andrew Cuomo’s refusal to reckon with past scandals, and why the race feels like it’s happening in a parallel city only 3% of residents live in. Plus The Rehearsal, not only the best comedy on TV, makes a serious point about pilot mental health while still landing the plane with artistry and pathos. /episode/index/show/3328c40e-bf42-4dd8-99d7-424929d28245/id/36981035

Pig Sacrifices and Talking Drums: Don't Squeeze the Shaman 05/27/2025

Pig Sacrifices and Talking Drums: Don't Squeeze the Shaman Manvir Singh, author of Shamanism: The Timeless Religion, shares insights from a decade with Indonesia’s Mentawai people, where healing rituals double as communal celebrations. He discusses how language and metaphor shape worldviews—and where anthropology sits between science and ideology. The U.S. Mint’s final penny order closes the chapter on a coin long derided as economic dead weight. And five years after George Floyd’s murder, polling shows confidence in police—especially among Black America /episode/index/show/3328c40e-bf42-4dd8-99d7-424929d28245/id/36981040

The Gist

TOPICS