ABCDEI

Welcome to ABCDEI, a podcast that explores the topics of diversity, equity and inclusion through stories of distinct and powerful lived experiences. If you are tired of the preaching, shaming and theory about why inclusion matters and just want to create change already, then you’re in the right place. Join us as we unlearn bias, one alphabet at a time.

EP41 DEIB doesn’t stop at talent attraction with Dr Jim Kanichirayil 02/27/2023

EP40 Inclusive practices for every body type with Pamela Shainhouse 01/27/2023

EP40 Inclusive practices for every body type with Pamela Shainhouse Welcome back to a fresh season of the ABCDEI podcast. In this season co-hosts Susan Diaz and Rohini Mukerji present a 6-episode arc with in-depth episodes on different aspects of 2 core topics: intersectionality, and the return to workplace culture. In the first episode of the arc, Susan Diaz sits down with Pamela Shainhouse, Award-winning Certified DEI&B professional to tackle the former. Pamela is the Founder, President, and Creative Designer of Allistyle Inc., a size-diverse and sustainable fashion line named in memory of her daughter Alli. Allistyle highlighted the need for beautiful, comfortable clothing for curvy women and was designed and manufactured from sustainable fabrics in Canada. She is a highly accomplished Entrepreneur and Consultant with more than 35 years of success across fashion, apparel, and professional fundraising sectors. Her broad areas of expertise include networking, brand development/management, and public speaking. Her new division, “The Shainhouse Group, a division of Allistyle Inc.” is a consultancy that specializes in the world “Diversity, Equity, Inclusion and Belonging (DEI&B)” within the corporate culture. Their sweet spot is in the fashion marketplace. Susan and Pamela dive into: 📝 The need to create greater awareness around physical abilities and size diversity in the post-pandemic workplace 📝 Why labels given to physical and mental abilities by “outsiders” - like “plus size” and “ADHD” - which inherent shame, need to change 📝 Why some larger fashion corporations from Nike to Old Navy, have recently integrated their clothing lines to offer a wider size range instead of grouping any size over 14 into a tab that is titled “Plus” 📝 The importance of becoming aware of independent brands that are doing a remarkable job of creating size diverse options - like Hilary MacMillan, and Lesley Hampton, an Indigenous fashion designer 📝 The easy business case for becoming more inclusive of customers with different physical abilities: “Our dollars work too!” Pamela talks of some of her experiences at big department stores and malls, as an older adult in a mobility device Listen to the full discussion with Susan and Pamela for more ⏩ If you like this episode, please drop us a 5-star rating. (no need for a detailed review. The platforms only care about the number of stars you leave us 😁) Much appreciated. About Pamela is a highly accomplished Entrepreneur and Consultant with more than 35 years of success across fashion, apparel, and professional fundraising sectors. Her broad areas of expertise include networking, brand development/management, and public speaking. Her new division, “The Shainhouse Group, a division of Allistyle Inc.” is a consultancy that specializes in the world “Diversity, Equity, Inclusion and Belonging (DEI&B)” within the corporate culture. Our sweet spot is in the fashion marketplace, In addition to Allistyle Inc., Pamela is the President of a charity, Alli’s Journey, founded in Alli’s memory to support young adults with cancer. Pam is currently finishing her first book about her journey with her daughter and how resilience and courage keep her moving ahead. /episode/index/show/abcdei/id/25738149

EP39 Apologies, apathy and how to stay committed to the equity journey 08/04/2022

EP38 Honouring your own intellectual property 06/02/2022

EP37 How to walk away like a Superhero 05/24/2022

EP36 - What does the inclusive ‘return to office' look like? 04/29/2022

EP36 - What does the inclusive ‘return to office' look like? ABCDEI is back after a short spring break! This season, we want to really feed into some of what we’ve built through great discussions and feedback. And focus on “conversation in progress”. And this year, no conversations have been more active than the ones around the return to the office! People back in offices in some part, and we're starting to see conversations around everything from whether the dress code changed now that we've seen everybody in pyjamas! Ie: Is the suit over? But more seriously… We spotlight an inclusion perspective on the subject. There is nuance in everything starting from how you invite people back into the office. Do you make it a choice? Is it everybody that needs to come in? Is it the same rules across the board? What does it mean for people whose lives have changed since the pandemic? And then, once we are back in the office, how do we make sure that inclusion becomes part of the operations of the workplace, and not something that's an afterthought or a sidebar consideration? “I think the defining philosophy going forward is how companies are going to react to hybrid work for the long haul. Repeatedly, we're seeing people put out these surveys, and how many times does it have to say 75% of the people would prefer flexible and remote arrangements before organizations will hear that feedback? It is about trusting your people to choose. Which is easier said than done.” - Susan Diaz “There is a little bit of a fear of going first because there's a fear of getting it wrong or alienating or offending. It has to be less about the actions and more about the strategy. So if you think about inclusion or building an equitable workplace as the reasoning that drives your return to office protocol, then it's less about how many times you ask people to come in and more about communicating the purpose - ie: how are we using our in-office time differently.” - Rohini Mukherji Listen to the full discussion with Susan and Rohini for more ⏩ /episode/index/show/abcdei/id/22946258

EP35 How marginalized communities can take up more space 02/25/2022

EP35 How marginalized communities can take up more space Today Susan and Rohini are getting personal. What can we do to TAKE UP MORE SPACE? 💫💫💫 Here we are with the second of a two part-episode (Refer episode 33 if you missed part 1), in which we're talking about how to build the inclusion muscle and what are the things that go into the making of an inclusion habit. In the first part, we looked at it from the perspective of privileged, or the person who wants to be an ally. And today, we want to look at it from the perspective of the marginalized - whether by race, gender, physical ability, or sexual orientation. There's two sides to moving forward.These sides are not equal by FAR. There is however a role that marginalized communities can play in furthering (not just starting, but furthering) the education of those with privilege. 1. Consider the token opportunity “I have to say don't reject the token opportunity.Even as little as six months ago I was approached to be a part of a diversity panel. And as part of the activities there was a mother-daughter segment doing a cook-off. And people on that committee wanted me to bake an Indian brownie. And I'm like, No, I don't know what an Indian brownie is. My brownie looks just like your brownie. It probably looks better than your brownie because I know how to bake and suddenly I was just feeling like a mascot. Looking at it from today I think to myself: That's silly! That was me getting triggered by something and I could have totally shown up and made my regular brownie and made a joke about it. Instead, I denied myself a little bit of visibility, and a fun connection with my child.” - Susan Diaz 2. Accept help Being able to accept help, and then maybe even taking it a step further, and learning how to get good at asking for help. Don’t see these things in any way as a reflection of your ability. We live in a culture of collaboration; we can easily access the minds and the resources we need so reach out and ask for help. “It might mean starting to be a little bit more specific with the help you ask for versus just, ‘I'm drowning. Help me.’ Take those baby steps, do what feels comfortable.” - Rohini Mukherji 3. Learn to wear the right amount of armor to ‘battle’ “Choosing the size of armor that you need for each battle is important. So if you're going into a situation where you're trying to advocate for yourself, and you need an extra day to do something that has cultural significance, that is a very different proposition than advocating for yourself where you've been systematically discriminated against for three years, and your advancement within a company has been stifled because of your different lived experience. Those are very different battles. And it's important to choose the armor that you go in equipped with to each battle. It is also about your own peace of mind and your own mental health, and sort of choosing and saving your resources for when you need them. To dive way into those 3 actions we can each take, listen to the episode. /episode/index/show/abcdei/id/22259750

EP34 The profound calling of bridge-building in DEI with Martine Kalaw 02/11/2022

EP34 The profound calling of bridge-building in DEI with Martine Kalaw “I make a distinction between active allies, and passive allies. We've got a whole lot of great passive allies in organizations that are wanting to do something and thinking ‘But I don't know what to do!’ Active allyship can be facilitated through manager and management development. Managers all need management development. If you're listening and you don't have a management development program, that is a huge disservice to your managers right there. We know that managers automatically need to upskill themselves to be more effective. What I'm suggesting is DEI just becomes a way to pivot management development. It's not changing it. That's why it's the ABCs!” - Martine Kalaw, CEO and founder of Martine Kalaw Enterprised and author of ‘The ABCs of Diversity’ And might we add??? A kindred spirit, for us, in terms of articulation of DEI philosophy. (I mean, this podcast IS called ABCDEI 😁) Martine’s firm supports human resources professionals in saving time, reducing burden, and being able to drive return on investment (ROI) when it comes to everything related to DEI in the workplace. They do this via training, consulting, as well as speaking. Why Martine didn't name her book ABCs of DEI “My only reservation was six, seven months ago, I wasn't sure how familiar people were with the term DEI. I think now it's more widespread, but we are like we were right. On the same, you know, wavelength!” Martine’s powerful story “So my background is I am a I am a stateless and undocumented immigrant survivor. I was born and I'm from Zambia and the Democratic Republic, respectively, and have been in the US since I was four years old. By the time I was 15, I became undocumented and I was placed in deportation proceedings for seven years and didn't have a country to return to because I was stateless. In the time that I was navigating these spaces, and navigating and trying to survive in America, on my own, I was exposed to different communities. I went to a predominantly white boarding school. Then I went, as an African child, to a predominantly African-American Middle School. As a result, I feel like I have this privilege, I was given this opportunity to navigate all these different communities in different spaces, and be a bridge builder.” Listen to the full, fascinating discussion with Susan and Rohini on this episode 👇 If you’re a return visitor, drop us a 5 star review please? It encourages and helps us show up to keep doing this podcast regularly. /episode/index/show/abcdei/id/22105373

EP33 Inclusion routines for the privileged 01/28/2022

EP32 Change hearts before minds with Victor Rampaderat 01/14/2022

EP32 Change hearts before minds with Victor Rampaderat “Here's something else that I realized which is very rarely brought into this conversation is we talk about white privilege and other privileges. Let's talk about economic privilege. It's really easy to become out of touch when you've started to gain economic privilege. And I know for myself, I've lived on both sides of the proverbial track. I've been poor, I've been wealthy. And at the end of the day, the problems that I face with money are very different than the problems I faced without.” - Victor Rampaderat, Founder of Discourse. Victor’s helps organizations build diversity and inclusion within their corporate spaces, as well as their environments and cultures. He’s an immigrant from South America as a young boy - whose parents came to Canada “as refugees fleeing a lot of tensions that were happening back home. And when we got here, it was not an easy experience. The 80s were full of racism, there were a lot of derogatory comments towards people of color, there weren't very many opportunities and the opportunities that existed were available mostly in low-wage paying jobs. So it was really tough. There were probably about 10 of us in a two bedroom apartment in Scarborough.” Victor’s perspective on the inclusion landscape “I think we're just getting started. I know that, last year we started to see the rise of the the CDO, or chief diversity officer, which was one of the fastest growing C suite, if not the fastest growing C suite roles. It can't be one person carrying the weight, it really needs to be an entire organization, top to bottom. And that's where the challenge is. Because you have folks that for whatever reason is, this is very personal to them, they're out to lunch, because it doesn't affect them.” “I can certainly fall on the slightly more combative end of things where, when it comes to a discussion, I'm like, ‘Well, excuse you’ or ‘I’m pretty sure you didn't mean to say that!’ And I do rely to some extent on my ability to use humor and wit and satire to get me through those discussions. That comes from my my lived experience. We moved around a lot as a family growing-up. I lived in different parts of the world. And then I've chosen to be, in the entrepreneurial space the last decade or so for work. That's meant that there isn't necessarily a boss or a framework or a complaint box that I could go to when issues happen on the daily. So I’ve learned to protect myself.” - Susan Diaz “Realistically, one of the things that I've always said is that you need to change people's hearts before you can change their minds. The people that want the change, will change. I've changed numerous times in my life. I was a criminal. Before I was 18, I was banned from the entire region I now live in. At the end of the day, I realized at that point, I no longer wanted to be that person. I wanted to be someone else. My parents didn't sacrifice the things they did, to come to this country, for me to end up a failure, either dead or in jail.” “Your own personal journey is so powerfulin the collective as well. You said Okay, this was the status quo, I was living this kind of life, and it fit, and it worked. But that's no longer the person or the company, or the image, or the reputation that we want to have. So let's just reinvent. We don't need to reinvent everything. But who is it that we want to be to our customers, our employees? Just having that moment of self-reflection is a powerful way to start.” - Rohini Mukherji Listen to the full episode and drop us a 5-star review if you’re a return visitor. Thank you! /episode/index/show/abcdei/id/21776084

EP31 “I want to own your pain” - with Shari Foos 01/07/2022

EP31 “I want to own your pain” - with Shari Foos “It's a profound thing to offer an apology. An apology is not dependent on forgiveness and has no excuses. An apology is me humbly coming to you and saying, “Oh, I see that I've hurt you; that I was inappropriate in some way.” And by the way, I may not have intended to hurt you. I may not even agree that it was something for which you should feel hurt. But that's not the concern of the apology. The apology is merely recognizing that you feel hurt based on something I did or said. I want to own own your pain, and apologize for it” - Shari Foos To kick things off this year, we have with us , Marriage and Family Therapist and founder of The Narrative Method. Shari’s point of view on inclusion was honed while studying Narrative Medicine at Columbia University. The program was conceived as a way to teach empathy to doctors. “There was a huge perspective about social justice, and what does it mean for someone to speak for a patient and you can extrapolate that to what does it mean for anyone to tell someone else's story. And so I have always been a big fan of the group process since I was a teenager, when I was depressed and found myself in group therapy. And what was so powerful that and I see to this day is that as important as one-on-one relationships are, they cannot simulate a good family the way a group can. And when everyone is nodding, because they understand what you're saying, you feel normal, you feel good, you feel you belong. So that's why I decided to take all of the work I had done, and create a group process where people could have meaningful conversations, without small talk, based on inspirational art, or videos or music or something that evokes a prompt, and then they'll go into smaller groups and discuss those prompts. Or in the case of writing groups, they write about them.” - Shari Foos Here’s some of what Susan and Rohini discuss with Shari “We're natural storytellers, based on the professional lines that we have chosen (as marketers and PR leaders), but our ‘why’ came from a personal and painful experience and the urge to make sure that doesn't happen to somebody else, or the urge, perhaps for somebody else to learn from the hard soul searching work that we had done” - Rohini Mukherji 3:53 “What Shari said about that “squeaky wheel” kid usually being the creative kid stood out for me. I have a 10 year old daughter and she's definitely curious and challenging. She's very, very creative. I say often, well you're lucky, you're in the right place to be that squeaky wheel. I'm listening closely because I want to encourage that creativity. Because for me, the environment was much more “Don't ask too many questions. Be seen and not heard.” The person who's telling a story is being brave. How do we make make them more comfortable?” -Susan Diaz 8:03 For that and more on empathy, apologies, creating safe spaces. Listen to the episode! If you’re a return visitor, drop us a 5-star rating? Please. /episode/index/show/abcdei/id/21576047

EP30 Equitably ever after 11/20/2021

EP29 I is for Immigrant 11/12/2021

EP28 P is for performative 11/05/2021

EP28 P is for performative What is ‘performative’? Is all marketing/communications automatically performative if you're setting out to announce what you’re doing to people? No, it doesn’t have to be. Not when it’s backed up by the right action. In this curated episode of conversations with 3 BIPOC leaders, we break down some of the realities we all need to come to grips with as individuals, and the actions we can take to move the needle forward to change. First, we speak to , Indigenous marketing leader, and founder of . We talk about how Canadians can centre Indigenous voices especially when something horrific like the residential school system becomes fully understood by mainstream society. Ben talks about how it all begins with vulnerability - what he’s appreciated more than anything else, is ‘witnessing the vulnerability of people who are willing to go there’. At the root of it is the question ‘how are we going to advance our interpersonal relationships, to learn and to be better?’ Next we talk to , Indigeneous marketing leader, host of “” and founder of . We discuss how it’s never too late for brands to come to the table. Darian encourages brands to overcome fear and or paralysis by analysis, which stops people from doing something to support change. And we round the episode out with our chat with , DEI advisor to non-profits, educator, and founder of . We talk about the context of charitable partnerships and the need for organizations to start asking themselves if they are in a position of power to be advocates for the communities that the funders want to help. If you're a leader in an organization, think about two things with everything you do, whether it's a policy update, a change to your hiring form, or hiring of somebody who oversees diversity: Is your action intended to build trust? Is it actually building trust? (Do people now have more trust? Do people have more knowledge?) If you're doing that, that's your gauge to know that it's not performative. If people are feeling safer, more comfortable, more supported, then you do you! For those battling with the boundaries of coming off as performative, if you are looking for a short primer, with real actions you can take, from leaders, find 25 minutes to listen to this episode. Hear our podcast, and enjoy it? may we ask you to drop us a 5-star rating? Please, and thank you. /episode/index/show/abcdei/id/21063998

EP27 C is for code-switching 10/29/2021

EP27 C is for code-switching In this curated episode we bring together 2 discussions. The first with Romesh Hettiarachchi, a commercial lawyer, and the second between Susan and Rohini on the microaggressions that compound and lead to many marginalized individuals' submissive reactions in the face of bias. Romesh tells the story of when he was setting up his firm. He had a number of different directions to consider. The first was to name it after himself, and why he chose not to go that route. He details some of the non-financial factors of decision-making like comfort, fit, perhaps quite key, the ability to pronounce the name of the other person. He chose not to name the firm after himself and instead went with B&I - Business and Innovation. He also details the distinction between the legal name of an entity and a brand name in which you engage with clients. And why he often recommends a blended approach. We talk about the cost of participation in the inclusion space is perceived as high. “What if I get that wrong? I would feel called out.” Even from something as simple as a name. Then we move on over to the impact of microaggressions based on cliched biases, and learning the resilience it takes from marginalized folx to navigate that. Many folx face bias on a daily basis. In the form of microaggressions. We've heard it described really well by a guest who was on . He referred to microaggressions as paper cuts. So if someone has asked you to call them ‘they’ and you call them ‘she’ repeatedly there is a cumulative effect. Susan talks of how she often asked for Indian recipes, particularly Chicken Tikka recipes. How she has cerebrally tried to work it out for herself saying,” Well of course they ask you that because you're a good cook. You talk about food often. You used to be a food blogger. And you shouldn't be offended by that.” But the fact remains if a relationship with her is purely reliant on someone asking her those cliched questions and they don't even know her well enough to know that she’s vegetarian, then she doesn't have to answer them. Listen up to this very example-filled episode that will make you take a deeper look at the things you say and how you say them. And if you enjoy this podcast, please consider hitting the 5 star button to give us a rating. Thank you. /episode/index/show/abcdei/id/20987666

EP 26 Grace, empathy, and asking for change with Darian Kovacs 10/22/2021

EP 26 Grace, empathy, and asking for change with Darian Kovacs How do we open up doors and break down barriers for Indigenous peoples to get work? To get mentorship? And to be leaders in that sector? Darian Kovacs asks “what if we equipped Indigenous folx with the best education, the best resources, the best credentials, and let them loose into the world of marketing and advertising? And what if they happen to rise up as the leaders? Because they're incredibly brilliant people that are resilient, understanding, and empathetic of stories and storytelling because of the way they are brought up in their history. Darian Kovacs, seasoned podcast host of Marketing News Canada and founder of Jelly Marketing joins Susan Diaz and Rohini Mukherji. We tackle the phenomenon of the new found anxiety of someone who want to be an ally who is moving from a place of privilege to just becoming aware of the real state of things I- whether it was the George Floyd murder of last year or the unearthing of over 1000 children's graves, covered up in the Canadian residential school system. We touch on How to operationalize empathy How to get past the fear of doing the wrong things and paralysis by analysis that stops people from doing anything to help Some of the really practical pieces marketers struggle with - Darian talks of a tool like Canva which many digital marketers within amazing organizations use. If you look up the stock images and try to find Indigenous people you’ll find very generalized/racialized images. When we come up against that, he suggests that we reach out to the platforms and get dialogue started on how it can change. (spoiler: they’ll likely be open to it as Darian discovered) This episode is super fun; complete with Grey’s Anatomy and Suits analogies and even examples of power sightings of Canadian political nerve centers (hint: Canadian PM Justin Trudeau and his wife Sophie Gregoire-Trudeau were in Tofino, BC in early October 2021, catching a lot of bad press on the bad taste of taking a ‘luxury vacation in this time’. Darian channels some primo empathy in his approach to that narrative) About Darian Darian Kovacs is the Indigenous founder of Vancouver based SEO company & PR and digital marketing course, . He brings 15 years of marketing experience and a passion for education, and creativity. He is the host of the podcast . Darian specializes in mixing PR with digital marketing and has worked with numerous internationally renowned brands on developing and executing their digital marketing and PR strategies. Darian lives in Fort Langley, BC with his wife and four children and likes to mountain bike, watercolour and read in his free time. /episode/index/show/abcdei/id/20900435