As Told To
Everybody's got a story to tell. Sometimes they need a little bit of help. Veteran ghostwriter Daniel Paisner talks shop with his fellow collaborators and shines a light on what it means to pursue a writing life on the back of someone else’s story.
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Episode 100: Alex DeMille
11/18/2025
Episode 100: Alex DeMille
Nelson and Alex DeMille’s is an electrifying read and a chillingly timely one,” writes The New York Times best-selling novelist Megan Abbott of the third and final father-son collaboration in the Scott Brodie & Maggie Taylor series. “[It’s] both a master-class in suspense and a haunting exploration of the dangers and costs of a surrender to technology, an abandonment of the human.” Yes, it is. It’s also the final novel from legendary author Nelson DeMille, completed posthumously following his death in September 2024, and a follow-up to the duo’s first two collaborations in the series— and , both immediate New York Times best-sellers. Its publication offers Alex DeMille an opportunity to reflect on growing up under the influence of one of our finest storytellers—a backdrop that at first inspired Alex to become a filmmaker. A graduate of the MFA program in film at UCLA, Alex’s films have won many awards and fellowships, and have played at festivals worldwide, including “, “ which was nominated for an Academy Award for Best Live Action Short in 2018. “I want to thank my father,” he writes in an emotional grace note to the new book, “who might be reading this somewhere among the stars with a good scotch in hand. Thank you for all you’ve given me, all you’ve taught me, for your love, your encouragement, for making me laugh and making me think. Thank you for trusting me. Thank you for showing me the way. I hope this makes you proud.” Learn more about Alex DeMille:
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Episode 99: Matthew Winkler
11/04/2025
Episode 99: Matthew Winkler
Student journalist and first-time documentary filmmaker Matthew Winkler joins us to discuss his work on a film chronicling the life and career of Joya Sherrill, an unsung American jazz vocalist who wrote the lyrics to the Billy Strayhorn standard, “Take the A Train,” made famous by the Duke Ellington orchestra. Matthew came across Sherrill’s name during his freshman year at Tufts University, while doing research for Boston Globe journalist and noted biographer Larry Tye, who was writing a book about jazz. Matthew, a music and history major, was astonished to discover the small footprint Sherrill had left behind, despite being the first female jazz singer to visit the Soviet Union, accompanying bandleader Benny Goodman, and earning the distinction of being one of Duke Ellington’s favorite singers. “Public-facing history is very important to me,” Matthew told a reporter for Tufts Now, the university’s alumni magazine, in an article detailing how the Tufts undergraduate grew a student research project into a feature-length documentary, with the help of his professors and mentors. “I hope this film will make people know who Joya Sherrill is and why we should care about her. On a broader level, I think a documentary like this will make people realize how easy it is for remarkable figures to fall through the cracks of history.” With this conversation, it is hoped, he might also signal to aspiring storytellers how easy it is to keep their eyes and ears open for stories that might move us, inspire us, and enlighten us. Learn more about Matthew Winkler: Please support the sponsors who support our show: Daniel Paisner's Daniel Paisner's (PODCAST) | 30% discount (ASTOLDTO) | 2 audiobooks for the price of 1 when you start your membership podcast, hosted by Mark Jordan Legan and Phoef Sutton podcast podcast (WRITERSBONE) | $15 off your first order (PODCAST) | 30% discount (WRITERSBONE) | 20% discount
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Episode 98: Michael E. Long
10/21/2025
Episode 98: Michael E. Long
Podcast guest calls himself “a professional explainer with a restive mind.” He is just that. Trained as physicist, Mike is the co-author of the international bestseller , which has been translated into more than 20 languages, and the sole author of the recently-published follow-up title . As a speechwriter, he has written for members of Congress, U.S Cabinet secretaries, presidential candidates, governors, diplomats, and business leaders. As a ghostwriter, he has collaborated on several books of non-fiction. As a playwright, he’s had more than two dozen of his shows produced, most on New York stages. He was finalist for the grand prize in screenwriting at the Slamdance Film Festival. A popular keynote speaker, Mr. Long has addressed audiences around the world, including at Oxford University. He teaches writing at Georgetown University, where he is a former director of writing. The son of a southern preacher, Mike’s call to writing found him close to home. “I learned how to write,” he says, “and how words should go together, by listening to the music of my father’s voice.” Join us for a fun, freewheeling conversation on a writing life lived at the crosshairs of the written word and the spoken word. Learn more about Michael E. Long: Please support the sponsors who support our show: Daniel Paisner's Daniel Paisner's (PODCAST) | 30% discount (ASTOLDTO) | 2 audiobooks for the price of 1 when you start your membership podcast, hosted by Mark Jordan Legan and Phoef Sutton podcast podcast (WRITERSBONE) | $15 off your first order (PODCAST) | 30% discount (WRITERSBONE) | 20% discount
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Episode 97: Emma Heming Willis and Michele Bender
10/07/2025
Episode 97: Emma Heming Willis and Michele Bender
“No two caregiving journeys are alike,” writes Emma Heming Willis, the wife of actor Bruce Willis, who was diagnosed in 2023 with Frontotemporal Dementia (FTD), a rare form of dementia affecting behavior, movement and language. “But we are connected by the same unchosen thread.” In , Emma writes movingly and hopefully about the blessings and burdens of being thrust into the role of caregiver, emerging as a passionate voice for care partners and families navigating neurodegenerative disease. Together with her collaborator, Michele Bender, she offers an essential blueprint for others confronting some of the same issues facing her own family. “My grief can still paralyze me,” she shares in the pages of the book she wishes someone had handed her when her husband was first diagnosed. “I still have a hard time accepting what is, yet FTD doesn’t give you many options. It can suck all the air out of a room. So I’ve made a choice to pump oxygen back into our lives, for the sake of our girls, Bruce, and me. And to give the middle finger to this disease.” Join us as we visit with Emma Heming Willis and her co-author Michele Bender for a heartbreaking and heart-lifting conversation on what it takes to tap the universal elements in such a deeply personal story—and what it means to step from an unimaginable darkness at home to stand in the world as a light for others. Learn more about our guests: Please support the sponsors who support our show: Daniel Paisner's Daniel Paisner's (PODCAST) | 30% discount (ASTOLDTO) | 2 audiobooks for the price of 1 when you start your membership podcast, hosted by Mark Jordan Legan and Phoef Sutton podcast podcast (WRITERSBONE) | $15 off your first order (PODCAST) | 30% discount (WRITERSBONE) | 20% discount
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Episode 96: Samuel G. Freedman
09/23/2025
Episode 96: Samuel G. Freedman
“Pull the heart of your work out of your chest and lay it out there for the gods,” podcast guest Samuel G. Freedman told his Columbia Journalism School graduate students on the first day of his final semester after 35 years of teaching. “That’s all I’m asking of you. Not much.” No, not much. And yet what Sam Freedman asked of his students during his tenure as one of our leading journalism educators was everything. Before his retirement this spring, his popular book-writing seminar led to the publication of 95 books by his students. “He’s been the godfather to an awful lot of publishing over the years,” noted Grove Atlantic executive editor George Gibson, in a New York Times profile on Sam’s career and his legacy in journalism and publishing. Sam was named the nation’s outstanding journalism professor in 1977 by the Society of Professional Journalists and was awarded Columbia University’s coveted Presidential Award for Outstanding Teaching. A former staff reporter and columnist for The New York Times, his work as appeared in numerous publications, including The New Yorker, The Washington Post, Rolling Stone, Tablet, Salon, and New York magazine. He is the author of 10 acclaimed books, including , a 1997 finalist for the Pulitzer Prize; ; and, , which was reissued in a new edition earlier this year. Learn more about Samuel Freedman: Please support the sponsors who support our show: Daniel Paisner's Daniel Paisner's (PODCAST) | 30% discount (ASTOLDTO) | 2 audiobooks for the price of 1 when you start your membership podcast, hosted by Mark Jordan Legan and Phoef Sutton podcast podcast (WRITERSBONE) | $15 off your first order (PODCAST) | 30% discount (WRITERSBONE) | 20% discount
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Episode 95: Jane Leavy
09/09/2025
Episode 95: Jane Leavy
Jane Leavy is the New York Times best-selling author of , , and . She is also the author of the comic novel , hailed by Entertainment Weekly as “the best novel ever written about baseball.” A longtime sportswriter and feature writer for The Washington Post, Jane covered baseball, tennis and the Olympics during her tenure at the paper. She also wrote features for the Post’s “Style” section on sports, politics and popular culture. Her work has been featured in the New York Times, Newsweek, Sports Illustrated, Grantland, The Los Angeles Times, and Tablet. In her latest book——Jane waxes philosophic and not-quite-catastrophic about the game she has loved her entire life, and asks readers to join her in re-imagining the way that game is played, and all the ways we might play it better, or more meaningfully, or more relevantly. In the book, just published by Grand Central Publishing, she writes movingly and hilariously and insightfully on our national pastime, offering a thinking fan’s take on what the game has become, and what the game has lost over the years. Join us for our Season 5 opener, as we visit with one of baseball’s biggest fans… and one of publishing’s finest storytellers. Learn more about Jane Leavy: Please support the sponsors who support our show: Daniel Paisner's Daniel Paisner's (PODCAST) | 30% discount (ASTOLDTO) | 2 audiobooks for the price of 1 when you start your membership podcast, hosted by Mark Jordan Legan and Phoef Sutton podcast podcast (WRITERSBONE) | $15 off your first order (PODCAST) | 30% discount (WRITERSBONE) | 20% discount
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Second Printing: D. Watkins
08/26/2025
Second Printing: D. Watkins
Episode originally aired on Nov. 2, 2021. “Don’t make it out, make it better.” That’s a line from podcast guest D. Watkins, offered in the book trailer for his book of essays , in which he gives voice to the voiceless and shines meaningful light on what it means to come of age in East Baltimore, in one of America’s poorest black neighborhoods. It’s a line you might hear as well from D.’s NBA legend Carmelo Anthony, himself a product of an uncertain, unforgiving environment–the housing projects of Red Hook, Brooklyn, and Baltimore. In the future Hall-of-Famer’s just-published memoir, , an immediate New York Times best-seller, D. helps his celebrated co-author share his story of finding a way out of no way at all, sounding the call for social justice and offering a guidepost for readers looking to pull success from struggle. More than any other athlete’s memoir in recent memory, the book offers a perfect pairing of author and subject, as D. brings his own perspective to Anthony’s hard-won experience. An , D.’s work has been featured in The New York Times Magazine, The Guardian, and Rolling Stone, among other publications. He is the author of the New York Times best-sellers and . Connect with D. Watkins: Please support the sponsors who support our show: Daniel Paisner's Daniel Paisner's (PODCAST) | 30% discount (ASTOLDTO) | 2 audiobooks for the price of 1 when you start your membership podcast, hosted by Mark Jordan Legan and Phoef Sutton podcast podcast (WRITERSBONE) | $15 off your first order (PODCAST) | 30% discount (WRITERSBONE) | 20% discount
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Second Printing: Nell Scovell
08/12/2025
Second Printing: Nell Scovell
Episode originally aired on April 11, 2023 “Writing is not what you start,” writes podcast guest Nell Scovell in her scathingly funny memoir . “It’s not even what you finish. It’s what you start, finish, and put out there for the world to see.” Indeed, Nell offers this observation from a place of hard-won experience. A veteran television writer (“Newhart,” “The Simpsons,” “Late Night with David Letterman,” “The Smothers Brothers Comedy Hour,” “Murphy Brown,” “Coach,” and on and on), Nell understands what it means to get an idea on its feet and out in front of an audience. As Sheryl Sandberg’s collaborator on the #1 New York Times best-seller , she helped to create a guidepost for a generation of women looking for a shared compass point in their lives and careers—a book Nell says she wishes she’d read at twenty-five, as a woman working in the male-dominated field of television comedy, instead of helping to write at fifty-two. Join us as Nell reflects on a lifetime working in collaboration with some of the brightest (and least accommodating!) minds in television, on what it was like to write jokes for President Obama at the White House Correspondent’s Dinner (“Obama, out!”), and on what it was like to be Spy magazine’s first staff writer, and a contributor to Vanity Fair, Vogue, and The New York Times. Learn more about Nell Scovell: Please support the sponsors who support our show: Daniel Paisner's Daniel Paisner's (PODCAST) | 30% discount (ASTOLDTO) | 2 audiobooks for the price of 1 when you start your membership podcast, hosted by Mark Jordan Legan and Phoef Sutton podcast podcast (WRITERSBONE) | $15 off your first order (PODCAST) | 30% discount (WRITERSBONE) | 20% discount
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Episode 94: Ivy Pochoda
07/29/2025
Episode 94: Ivy Pochoda
Ivy Pochoda is the author of the critically-acclaimed novels Visitation Street, These Women, Sing Her Down, and the just-published , a reimagined contemporary feminist horror story hailed by the Washington Post as a “stiletto-sharp remake of Euripides.” She is also the co-author of The New York Times best-selling middle-grade , created by the late basketball legend Kobe Bryant and written under the name Ivy Claire. Her books have been awarded the L.A. Times Book Prize, the 2018 Strand Critics Award for Best Novel and the Prix Page America in France, and she has been a finalist for the prestigious Edgar Award. A former collegiate and professional squash player, Ivy has led a creative writing workshop in Skid Row, Los Angeles, and is currently a professor of creative writing at the University of California Riverside-Palm Desert low-residency MFA program. Writing fiction and playing squash are a lot alike, she says. “Both teach self-reliance and self-motivation. And both practice deception.” Learn more about Ivy Pochoda: Pochoda's appearance on Please support the sponsors who support our show: Daniel Paisner's Daniel Paisner's (PODCAST) | 30% discount (ASTOLDTO) | 2 audiobooks for the price of 1 when you start your membership podcast, hosted by Mark Jordan Legan and Phoef Sutton podcast podcast (WRITERSBONE) | $15 off your first order (PODCAST) | 30% discount (WRITERSBONE) | 20% discount
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Episode 93: Amy Silverberg
07/15/2025
Episode 93: Amy Silverberg
Amy Silverberg is a comedian and writer based in Los Angeles. Her stand-up comedy has been featured on Comedy Central, Hulu, NPR, and Amazon Prime. Her short fiction has appeared in , The Paris Review, Granta, and The New Yorker. She holds a Ph.D. in Creative Writing from USC, where she now teaches. Prior to publication, Amy’s debut novel was hailed by Oprah Daily as “a funny, high-spirited novel…the book humorously describes a lesser-seen side of Los Angeles: the unglamorous neighborhood of Van Nuys, the humiliations of fame, the agony of trying—and failing—to be someone else, and the thrill of discovering yourself along the way.” “Somebody is always going through something,” she writes in the novel, just published by Grand Central Publishing. “Somebody is always reading a book and finding himself there.” Join us for a funny, thoughtful look at the ways Amy’s comedy informs her writing, the ways her writing fuels her comedy, and the many ways she finds herself in her work. Learn more about Amy Silverberg: Please support the sponsors who support our show: Daniel Paisner's Daniel Paisner's (PODCAST) | 30% discount (ASTOLDTO) | 2 audiobooks for the price of 1 when you start your membership podcast, hosted by Mark Jordan Legan and Phoef Sutton podcast podcast (WRITERSBONE) | $15 off your first order (PODCAST) | 30% discount (WRITERSBONE) | 20% discount
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Episode 92: Carla Sosenko
07/01/2025
Episode 92: Carla Sosenko
Veteran journalist Carla Sosenko has written for The New York Times, Cosmopolitan, Marie Claire, People, Self, Newsweek, and numerous other publications. Her work has also appeared in Time Out New York (where she was editor-in-chief), Entertainment Weekly (where she was executive editor), In Touch (where she was managing editor) and Us Weely (where she is currently executive editor at large). She is also the co-author of , written with TikTok star Melissa Dilkes Pateras. In her just-published collection of essays entitled , Carla writes with candor and great good cheer about growing up with a rare congenital vascular disorder known as Klippel-Trenaunay Syndrome—a disorder that shaped the way she looked out at the world, and the ways the world looked back in turn. “If you are thin, even if you are too thin, life is inherently safer,” she writes. “The world order puts thin people at the top, with the rest of us below struggling for air. Many of us have been gasping for decades.” In her new book—hailed by Harper’s Bazaar prior to publication as “raw, vulnerable, and utterly hilarious—she breathes deep and sounds a clarion call for anyone who has ever been made to feel like an outsider or told they should take up less space. Learn more about Carla Sosenko: Please support the sponsors who support our show: Daniel Paisner's Daniel Paisner's (PODCAST) | 30% discount (ASTOLDTO) | 2 audiobooks for the price of 1 when you start your membership podcast, hosted by Mark Jordan Legan and Phoef Sutton podcast podcast (WRITERSBONE) | $15 off your first order (PODCAST) | 30% discount (WRITERSBONE) | 20% discount
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Episode 91: John Kasich
06/17/2025
Episode 91: John Kasich
—a collection of inspiring profiles of individuals working to make a difference with the help of their faith communities—is podcast host Daniel Paisner’s fifth collaboration with former Ohio governor John Kasich. The collaboration goes back to the very first book the two wrote together—the 2006 New York Times best-seller —as Gov. Kasich was completing his ninth term as a member of the U.S. House of Representatives from Ohio’s 12th district. They would go on to write about the governor’s long-time Bible study group, about his 2016 presidential campaign, and a primer on what it takes to live a life of purpose and meaning, encouraging readers to be the change they wanted to see in this world. In Heaven Help Us, Gov. Kasich continues to explore the themes that have defined his public life, as he shines a powerful light on a group of extraordinary people who are working selflessly to transform their communities—work that is being magnified by their churches, synagogues and mosques. “My goal here is to get readers to think outside themselves for a bit, to think bigger than themselves,” he writes. “To open their hearts to what’s possible instead of what’s impossible.” Learn more about John Kasich: Please support the sponsors who support our show: Daniel Paisner's Daniel Paisner's (PODCAST) | 30% discount (ASTOLDTO) | 2 audiobooks for the price of 1 when you start your membership podcast, hosted by Mark Jordan Legan and Phoef Sutton podcast podcast (WRITERSBONE) | $15 off your first order (PODCAST) | 30% discount (WRITERSBONE) | 20% discount
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Episode 90: Art Bell
06/03/2025
Episode 90: Art Bell
“I never thought I would have a career in the television business,” writes podcast guest Art Bell, the founding father of the Comedy Central network and the longtime president of Court TV. While at Comedy Central, which had its origins at HBO as “The Comedy Channel,” Art helped to launch the careers of Bill Maher and Jon Stewart, and to provide a platform for up-and-coming comedians. He also found the time to co-author a humor book with his network colleagues—Web Sightings: A Collection of Websites We’d Like to See. At Court TV, he oversaw the network’s daily live courtroom coverage and the production of hundreds of hours of original true-crime television series, documentaries, and movies, becoming a guiding force behind one of the most successful brand evolutions in cable television. He credits his time at Court TV with helping him to master the mechanics of storytelling. “The challenge,” he said in a recent interview, “was to find the pacing that worked for the story, to include twists, exploit red herrings, and most of all, to make sure the audience stayed riveted and came back after the commercial break.” Art’s first novel, , was just published by Ulysses Press, which had previously published his memoir, . In addition to his books, he has published short stories, non-fiction and satire in several journals, including Lowestoft Chronicle, The Ocotillo Review, and Aethlon: The Journal of Sports Literature. Learn more about Art Bell: Please support the sponsors who support our show: John Kasich’s (now available for pre-order) Daniel Paisner's Daniel Paisner's (PODCAST) | 30% discount (ASTOLDTO) | 2 audiobooks for the price of 1 when you start your membership podcast, hosted by Mark Jordan Legan and Phoef Sutton podcast podcast (WRITERSBONE) | $15 off your first order (PODCAST) | 30% discount (WRITERSBONE) | 20% discount
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Episode 89: Alan Zweibel
05/20/2025
Episode 89: Alan Zweibel
"Comedy writers learn early on that we have a high degree of anonymity," writes podcast guest Alan Zweibel in his memoir . "Our words are spoken publicly by others who often have famous faces. Or by unknown people on their way to having famous faces." As one of the founding writers on Saturday Night Live, Alan’s words were given voice by a cast of virtual unknowns, all on their way to becoming famous faces, eventually earning worldwide acclaim as some of the most iconic comic performers of their generation. Over the course of his 50-year career, he has penned jokes for dozens of Borscht Belt comedians and written for some of SNL’s most memorable characters (such as Gilda Radner’s "Roseanne Rosannadanna," John Belushi’s "Samurai," and Garrett Morris’s "Chico Escuela"), and helped to craft SNL producer Lorne Michaels’s now-legendary appeal to invite the Beatles to appear on the show for the standard artist fee of $3,000. Alan is the recipient of five Emmy Awards for his work in television, which in addition to SNL also includes "It’s Garry Shandling’s Show" (which he co-created and produced), "The Late Show with David Letterman," and "Curb Your Enthusiasm." He is the author of 11 books, including the 2006 Thurber Prize-winning novel , and , and six off-Broadway plays. He also collaborated with Billy Crystal on the Tony Award-winning play "700 Sundays," and with Martin Short on his Broadway hit "Fame Becomes Me," and co-wrote the screenplays for the films "Dragnet," "North," "The Story of Us," and "Here Today." He joins us on the podcast to reflect on a singular career as one of our leading comedy writers and humorists—and a wickedly funny body of work that has earned him an honorary Ph.D. from the State University of New York, and a Lifetime Achievement Award from the Writers Guild of America, East. Learn more about Alan Zweibel: Please support the sponsors who support our show: John Kasich’s Daniel Paisner's Daniel Paisner's (PODCAST) | 30% discount (ASTOLDTO) | 2 audiobooks for the price of 1 when you start your membership podcast, hosted by Mark Jordan Legan and Phoef Sutton podcast podcast (WRITERSBONE) | $15 off your first order (PODCAST) | 30% discount (WRITERSBONE) | 20% discount
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Episode 88: Rachel Holtzman
05/06/2025
Episode 88: Rachel Holtzman
How much does ego play a role in the art and craft of a book collaborator? That’s a question at the heart of this conversation with #1 New York Times best-selling ghostwriter Rachel Holtzman, co-author of more than 60 books on topics ranging from wellness and spirituality, to cooking and entertaining, including collaborations with such celebrated personalities as , , , and . Prior to her work as a self-described “book doula,” Rachel was an editor at Penguin Books and ELLE magazine, before a detour to culinary school and a short stint in the kitchen at New York’s Gramercy Tavern helped to launch her career as an in-demand cookbook co-author and recipe tester and developer. “We’re climbing inside the minds or the lives of our clients in order to produce something that is really of them,” she reflects, “while also leaving behind a pretty big footprint of our own, because it is of us as well. We’re not ChatGPT.” Rachel joins us at a busy time on the collaboration front, as she celebrates the publication of four new titles this month—, a collection of “veg-forward” Middle Eastern and Mediterranean-inspired recipes, written with television food personality Edin Grinshpan; , featuring seasonal recipes from celebrity chef and style curator Meredith Hayden; , a guide to peak living, from wellness educator Devi Brown; and, , a parenting primer on nurturing independent play, from Myriam Sandler, creator and founder of the Mothercould lifestyle platform. Learn more about Rachel Holtzman: Please support the sponsors who support our show: John Kasich’s Daniel Paisner's Daniel Paisner's (PODCAST) | 30% discount (ASTOLDTO) | 2 audiobooks for the price of 1 when you start your membership podcast, hosted by Mark Jordan Legan and Phoef Sutton podcast podcast (WRITERSBONE) | $15 off your first order (PODCAST) | 30% discount (WRITERSBONE) | 20% discount
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Episode 87: Adam Ross
04/22/2025
Episode 87: Adam Ross
Adam Ross’s second novel, , is one of the best-reviewed books of the year. A story “dipped in molten nostalgia and flecked with love and sadness,” according to The Washington Post, it was hailed immediately upon publication by The Los Angeles Times as “extraordinary” and by The New York Times as “a gorgeous cat’s cradle of a book.” He is also the author of a previous novel, , which was selected as one of the best books of the year by The New York Times, The New Yorker, and The Economist, and the story collection , which featured a story entitled “In the Basement,” a finalist for the BBC International Story Prize. Adam has been the Mary Ellen von der Heyden fellow in fiction at the American Academy in Berlin, and a Hodder Fellow for Fiction at Princeton University. His non-fiction has appeared in The New York Times Book Review, The Daily Beast, The Wall Street Journal, The Washington Post, and other publications. Since 2017, he has been the editor of , the oldest, continuously published literary quarterly in the United States. He joins us to discuss his remarkable new novel, and the collaborative aspects of his work as one of our most acclaimed editors and novelists. Learn more about Adam Ross and the topics discussed in the episode: Anthony Quinn’s Please support the sponsors who support our show: John Kasich’s Daniel Paisner's Daniel Paisner's (PODCAST) | 30% discount (ASTOLDTO) | 2 audiobooks for the price of 1 when you start your membership podcast, hosted by Mark Jordan Legan and Phoef Sutton podcast podcast (WRITERSBONE) | $15 off your first order (PODCAST) | 30% discount (WRITERSBONE) | 20% discount
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Episode 86: Salwa Emerson
04/08/2025
Episode 86: Salwa Emerson
“Sometimes our own stories get snatched from us, hidden in darkness for years,” writes podcast guest Salwa Emerson, “until it’s time to reclaim them.” Salwa is well-known to publishers as an author, editor and ghostwriter, specializing in memoirs, thought-leadership books, and book proposals. To hear her clients tell it, she has a way of bringing those stories out of hiding and into the light. She has collaborated with world-renowned chefs, professional athletes, reality television personalities, Oscar-winning actors, and Pulitzer Prize winners. Before turning to ghostwriting, she worked on the other side of the desk, for publishers such as St. Martin’s Press and DK Publishing. Her most recent publication—, written with environmentalist Benji Backer—was hailed by former California Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger prior to publication as “an essential read that shows how protecting our natural resources and advancing America’s national interests are mutually reinforcing goals.” Join us as Salwa shares her thoughts on helping to find an author’s “voice”, the three clauses all ghostwriters should have in their contracts, and the best ways to engage with readers, fellow writers and potential clients. Learn more about Salwa Emerson: Please support the sponsors who support our show: John Kasich’s Daniel Paisner's Daniel Paisner's (PODCAST) | 30% discount (ASTOLDTO) | 2 audiobooks for the price of 1 when you start your membership podcast, hosted by Mark Jordan Legan and Phoef Sutton podcast podcast (WRITERSBONE) | $15 off your first order (PODCAST) | 30% discount (WRITERSBONE) | 20% discount
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Episode 85: Elizabeth Shockman
03/25/2025
Episode 85: Elizabeth Shockman
“My job was to dance so well that it didn’t matter who favored me or why.” That’s a line from the compelling new memoir by world-renowned ballerina Joy Womack, “as told to” podcast guest Elizabeth Shockman. Together, in (dare we say it?) balletic prose, the two recount Womack’s storied career as the first American woman to dance under contract for the Bolshoi Ballet Theater in Moscow. “The dancers beside me were tired, pale after months of clouded winter skies,” they write in . “They bent and bowed, their bodies corded with muscle, like sallow stalagmites that had mushroomed off the floor of a cave.” Womack’s story offers a first-hand glimpse of the cutthroat world of ballet, complete with acts of violence and intrigue, tales of eating disorders and body shaming, and profiles of legendary Bolshoi coaches who encouraged obsessive devotion and imposed their uncompromising standards on their young charges. And yet beneath the ugliness of graft and competition, the author’s love of dance and her appreciation for the place ballet holds in Russian culture fairly leap off the page, as she reflects on the intersection of art and politics and exposes the shadowy underbelly of the world of professional ballet. First-time collaborator Elizabeth Shockman is a public radio journalist based in Minnesota. Her work has been featured on National Public Radio, Public Radio International, Minnesota Public Radio, and the BBC. She has previously written for Reuters, The Moscow Times, and other publications. She first met Joy Womack on assignment for Reuters in Moscow and spent over a dozen years collaborating with her on this book. (Yes, Elizabeth agrees, that’s a very long time to work on one project, but as she shares in this episode of As Told To: The Ghostwriting Podcast, it sometimes happens that life and career take center stage, both for an author and her subject, as memoir waits in the wings.) Learn more about Elizabeth Shockman: Please support the sponsors who support our show: John Kasich’s (now available for pre-order) Daniel Paisner's Daniel Paisner's (PODCAST) | 30% discount (ASTOLDTO) | 2 audiobooks for the price of 1 when you start your membership podcast, hosted by Mark Jordan Legan and Phoef Sutton podcast podcast (WRITERSBONE) | $15 off your first order (PODCAST) | 30% discount (WRITERSBONE) | 20% discount
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Episode 84: David Peisner
03/11/2025
Episode 84: David Peisner
David Peisner is a freelance journalist and ghostwriter/collaborator based in Atlanta. His work has appeared in the New York Times, Rolling Stone, New York, Esquire, Playboy, and other publications. His first book collaboration—with “Steve-O,” the legendary co-star of the legendarily out there MTV reality series “Jackass”—grew out of a magazine assignment, taking Peisner on a sidelong career turn he hadn’t anticipated. “If you are only going to buy one book this year about an alcoholic, self-abusive, vegan, pyromaniac ex-circus clown with a talent for vomiting on command and stapling his scrotum to his leg, make sure this is the one,” he wrote upon the book’s publication. That book, , became a New York Times best-seller, and led to a follow-up title, , and a string of ghostwriting projects that helped to supplement Peisner’s income as a freelance newspaper and magazine writer. Curiously, those two Steve-O books made headlines in December 2024, when they surfaced on the Goodreads account of suspected “CEO Killer” Luigi Mangione, charged with the murder of UnitedHealthcare CEO Brian Thompson—a connection that put Peisner’s work in an unexpected sliver of spotlight. It also brought his collaborative work to the attention of the similarly-named host of this here podcast, resulting in this conversation. Join us for a reflection on what it takes to build a career as a freelance journalist, and how to walk the fine line between writing about a celebrity subject and writing for a celebrity subject. Learn more about David Peisner: “” (05/19/24 Rolling Stone profile of Kid Rock) Please support the sponsors who support our show: John Kasich’s (now available for pre-order) Daniel Paisner's Daniel Paisner's (PODCAST) | 30% discount (ASTOLDTO) | 2 audiobooks for the price of 1 when you start your membership podcast, hosted by Mark Jordan Legan and Phoef Sutton podcast podcast (WRITERSBONE) | $15 off your first order (PODCAST) | 30% discount (WRITERSBONE) | 20% discount
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Episode 83: Cynthia DiTiberio
02/25/2025
Episode 83: Cynthia DiTiberio
“We all have to figure out our own ways to carve out our own creativity,” says New York Times best-selling ghostwriter Cynthia DiTiberio about finding time to do her own writing alongside her collaborative work. “Not that our creativity doesn’t go into our ghostwritten books, but you can’t claim it in the same way.” Cynthia knows what it takes to create a successful book. She started her publishing career as a senior editor at HarperCollins, where she worked with a number of authors, including NIH director Francis Collins and Pulitzer Prize-winning investigative reporter Jeffrey Marx. From there she went on to co-author a number of best-selling books with a variety of well-known personalities, including Emmy-nominated actress and producer Roma Downey; author-turned-political activist Marianne Williamson; and business strategist and motivational speaker Tony Robbins. She currently writes the Substack newsletter “,” and is the former publisher of Literary Mama, and her work has appeared in Scary Mommy, The Lily, Mutha Magazine and The Voices Project. Learn more about Cynthia DiTiberio: Please support the sponsors who support our show: Daniel Paisner's Daniel Paisner's (PODCAST) | 30% discount (ASTOLDTO) | 2 audiobooks for the price of 1 when you start your membership podcast, hosted by Mark Jordan Legan and Phoef Sutton podcast podcast (WRITERSBONE) | $15 off your first order (PODCAST) | 30% discount (WRITERSBONE) | 20% discount
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Episode 82: Hannah Bos & Paul Thureen
02/11/2025
Episode 82: Hannah Bos & Paul Thureen
We’re taking a bit of a pivot here at the podcast factory with this one, pinching from the season-opening episode of Writer’s Bone, our flagship podcast at the Writer’s Bone Podcast Network. “As Told To” producer and Writer’s Bone host and founder Daniel Ford featured a conversation with the writing team of Hannah Bos and Paul Thureen, co-creators of the enchantingly poignant HBO series “Somebody Somewhere,” starring actress/comedian Bridget Everett—a conversation that brushed up against so many relatable aspects of collaborative writing that we decided to rebroadcast it (to re-podcast it?) here. “Somebody Somewhere” ended its three-season run in December, shortly after the creators sat with Daniel Ford to discuss the series—hailed by The Los Angeles Times as “epic television”—and we were charmed by their conversation, inviting listeners behind the scenes to reflect on how the show came about, and the singular place it now holds in the annals of bittersweet television. Paul Thureen is a founder and co-Artistic Director of The Debate Society, a Brooklyn-based theater company. He received an OBIE Award for his performance in the company's Blood Play. Hannah Bos, also a founder and co-founder of the company, received a Drama Desk Award for her performance in the Signature Theater Company’s production of Will Eno’s The Open House. Together, they have written for “Mozart in the Jungle” and “High Maintenance,” and developed pilots for HBO, FOX, Amazon and Paramount. “This has been a dream come true,” Hannah reflected on the duo’s “Somebody Somewhere” run as the series came to a close. “It was a dream that they made the pilot. It was a dream that they made the first season, the second season, the third season. And it was a dream that we made it with really fun, good people. So I hope we can do it again.” Paul’s reflections were a little less…well, reflective, as he shared what it was like to write for a group of midwestern-ish characters who weren’t used to talking about their feelings. “If it gets a little too real,” he said, of the pain and heartache that could often be found at the show’s core, “then you have to make a fart joke.” Indeed. Learn more about Hannah Bos and Paul Thureen: Please support the sponsors who support our show: Daniel Paisner's Daniel Paisner's (PODCAST) | 30% discount (ASTOLDTO) | 2 audiobooks for the price of 1 when you start your membership podcast, hosted by Mark Jordan Legan and Phoef Sutton podcast podcast (WRITERSBONE) | $15 off your first order (PODCAST) | 30% discount (WRITERSBONE) | 20% discount
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Episode 81: Laura Morton
01/28/2025
Episode 81: Laura Morton
“The work that we do is actually very difficult to detach from when you’re writing in somebody’s voice,” notes veteran collaborator Laura Morton on the emotional connection she often feels when channeling her clients’ stories. Laura comes by this observation honestly, after spending more than thirty years helping to tell other people’s stories. In that time, she has written more than 60 books, including 22 New York Times bestsellers. Her most recent bestseller , written with GoDaddy and PXG Golf founder Bob Parsons—was a publication of , her own imprint at Forefront Books, an innovative independent publisher. Over the years, Laura has worked with a wide range of celebrities, entrepreneurs and innovators, including Joan Lunden, Al Roker, Jennifer Hudson, Susan Lucci, Melissa Etheridge, Justin Bieber, Danica Patrick, John Maxwell, Glenn Stearns, and the Jonas Brothers. Laura is also the writer, co-director, and producer of the award-winning 2022 documentary “,” exploring the age of anxiety and depression, and a leading mental health advocate and workshop facilitator. Join us for a wide-ranging conversation on the changing face of publishing, as Laura reflects on her long career as one of the industry’s leading storytellers, and on her recent shift from ghostwriter to “mission-driven” publisher, helping to build a platform for her collaborative clients and other authors looking to land their stories on America’s bookshelf. Learn more about Laura Morton: Please support the sponsors who support our show: Daniel Paisner's Daniel Paisner's (PODCAST) | 30% discount (ASTOLDTO) | 2 audiobooks for the price of 1 when you start your membership podcast, hosted by Mark Jordan Legan and Phoef Sutton podcast podcast (WRITERSBONE) | $15 off your first order (PODCAST) | 30% discount (WRITERSBONE) | 20% discount
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Episode 80: Benjamin Dreyer
01/14/2025
Episode 80: Benjamin Dreyer
“You’d be amazed at how far you can get in life having no idea what the subjunctive mood is,” writes Benjamin Dreyer, retired managing editor and copy chief of the Random House division of Penguin Random House. “As if it’s not bad enough that English has rules, it also has moods.” Yes, it does. Happily, the mood of the room for writers in Benjamin’s good hands as a copyeditor was cheerful and patient and winning… and, for the most part, grammatically correct. Over the course of his 30+ years in publishing, he helped to shepherd the work of writers such as Michael Chabon, Edmund Morris, Suzan-Lori Parks, E.L. Doctorow, Elizabeth Strout, and Shirley Jackson into print. Somewhere in there, he also found time to write a book of his own: The New York Times best-selling stylebook —a “brilliant, pithy, incandescently intelligent book [that] is to contemporary writing what Geoffrey Chaucer’s poetry was to medieval English,” according to Pulitzer Prize-winning author Jon Meacham, another Random House author who benefited from our guest’s unseen hand. Join us as Benjamin reflects on the collaborative role of the copyeditor in the publishing process, on the joys of creative footnoting, on the particularly lovely frustration of working with Isabella Rossellini, on a writer’s lifetime allotment of exclamation points, and the excesses to be pruned from phrases like “assless chaps,” “slightly ajar,” and “passing fad.” (Note the ever-popular serial comma in the previous sentence, and the expenditure of one of those allotted exclamation points in this parenthetical aside!) Learn more about Benjamin Dreyer: Please support the sponsors who support our show: Daniel Paisner's Daniel Paisner's (PODCAST) | 30% discount (ASTOLDTO) | 2 audiobooks for the price of 1 when you start your membership podcast, hosted by Mark Jordan Legan and Phoef Sutton podcast podcast (WRITERSBONE) | $15 off your first order (PODCAST) | 30% discount (WRITERSBONE) | 20% discount
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Second Printing: Peter Asher and David Jacks
12/31/2024
Second Printing: Peter Asher and David Jacks
This episode originally aired June 20, 2023 First-time author David Jacks, a veteran video editor and music supervisor, ran into legendary music producer Peter Asher at a Santa Monica taco joint in 2003 and asked if he could interview him. Jacks, a long-time admirer of the man said to be the inspiration for Mike Myers’ “shagadelic” Austin Powers character, who first came to prominence as one-half of the hit-making British pop vocal duo Peter and Gordon and would go on to produce generation-defining albums for artists such as James Taylor, Linda Ronstadt, Bonnie Raitt, Randy Newman, and Diana Ross, immediately asked Asher if he would sit for an interview. The aspiring journalist thought he might use the interview as the basis for an article in a music magazine, but the two-time Grammy-winning Producer of the Year didn’t think anyone would want to read it. Nevertheless, that first interview led to another… and another… and on and on. Over the next two decades, the two continued to talk, while Jacks lined up interviews with hundreds of musicians and record industry professionals who had worked with Asher over the years, eventually leading to the publication of , the first book-length account of the producer’s life and career. Join us for a two-part conversation with author and subject, as Asher reflects on a book he never thought anyone would be interested in reading, and Jacks shares what it was like to tease out the story of a shape-shifting pioneer—“a fascinating music business anomaly,” according to The New York Times, who could never quite understand what all the fuss was about. Learn more about our guests: Read , timed to coincide with the publication of the David Jacks book. Read Read Peter Asher’s , based on the author’s popular Sirius XM radio show on The Beatles Channel. Please support the sponsors who support our show: Daniel Paisner's Daniel Paisner's (PODCAST) | 30% discount (ASTOLDTO) | 2 audiobooks for the price of 1 when you start your membership podcast, hosted by Mark Jordan Legan and Phoef Sutton podcast podcast (WRITERSBONE) | $15 off your first order (PODCAST) | 30% discount (WRITERSBONE) | 20% discount
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Episode 79: Seth Rogoff Returns
12/17/2024
Episode 79: Seth Rogoff Returns
Here at the podcast factory, we’re thrilled to welcome back novelist, translator, collaborator and cultural critic Seth Rogoff to talk about his new novel—a thrilling and unsettling coda to Franz Kafka’s unfinished masterwork The Castle. Seth joined us in Season 2 () to talk about the also thrilling and decidedly unconventional memoir he helped to write with ESPN basketball analyst and former NBA star Kendrick Perkins, , which took a critical look at racism in America, and in professional sports, and sounded a call for justice and social change—a book hailed by Kirkus Reviews as “a well-balanced blend of activism and memoir.” In that first interview, we talked a little bit about Seth’s work as a noted Kafka translator, and we’re picking up that conversation here, as Seth celebrates the publication of —“a palimpsestic fever dream” of a novel, according to another noted Kafka translator, Ross Benjamin. (Go ahead and look up palimpsestic—we’ll wait.) In this follow-up conversation, we talk with Seth about the collaborative nature of translation, the state of contemporary memoir, and the never-ending search to find meaningful stories in the life and work of others. Learn more about Seth Rogoff: Please support the sponsors who support our show: Daniel Paisner's Daniel Paisner's (PODCAST) | 30% discount (ASTOLDTO) | 2 audiobooks for the price of 1 when you start your membership podcast, hosted by Mark Jordan Legan and Phoef Sutton podcast podcast (WRITERSBONE) | $15 off your first order (PODCAST) | 30% discount (WRITERSBONE) | 20% discount
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Episode 78: Mike Thomas
12/03/2024
Episode 78: Mike Thomas
“In general, magazine profiles are to biographies as inland lakes are to oceans,” writes the late entertainment journalist and ghostwriter Bill Zehme in The New York Times best-selling . “Far less sprawling and easier to navigate.” This is true—and readers need look no further than Zehme’s latest (and last) book, completed posthumously, for confirmation. Zehme, who collaborated on memoirs with Jay Leno and Regis Philbin and was a frequent contributor to Esquire, Rolling Stone, Playboy, and Vanity Fair, worked on his Carson biography for over a decade, before a cancer diagnosis and ongoing treatments halted his progress. When he died in 2023, The New York Times cited “Carson the Magnificent” in his obit as one of the entertainment world’s “great unfinished biographies.” Enter podcast guest Mike Thomas, Bill Zehme’s former research assistant and longtime friend, who was tapped to complete the project, which was an immediate New York Times best-seller upon its publication last month. “Everything I needed (and so much more) was there, somewhere, stashed in long-unopened binders and torn envelopes and dusty bins,” Mike Thomas writes of this collaboration. “It was mostly a matter of sifting through the stockpile, extracting and sorting the relevant material and reaching out to a handful of Bill’s sources, all of whom were eager to help, for further illumination. But I’ve never lost sight of the fact that, despite my contributions, this is Bill’s book.” The book, Mike says, has been a blessing, gifting him the chance to keep connected to a close pal with whom he can no longer communicate directly—a mentor who cheered him on during his own career as arts and entertainment features writer at the Chicago Sun-Times, as a regular contributor to Chicago magazine, and as the author of two critically-acclaimed books of his own— and . Learn more about Mike Thomas: Mentioned on the show: , by Bill Zehme and ATT guest David Rensin Please support the sponsors who support our show: Daniel Paisner's Daniel Paisner's (PODCAST) | 30% discount (ASTOLDTO) | 2 audiobooks for the price of 1 when you start your membership podcast, hosted by Mark Jordan Legan and Phoef Sutton podcast podcast (WRITERSBONE) | $15 off your first order (PODCAST) | 30% discount (WRITERSBONE) | 20% discount
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Second Printing: Winnie Holzman
11/26/2024
Second Printing: Winnie Holzman
This episode originally aired on Feb. 14, 2023 “I moved on to the next thing I was going to write,” says the noted dramatist and television writer Winnie Holzman, recalling the cancellation of her critically-acclaimed series “,” after just one season. “That’s what we do as writers. We move on to the next thing.” Indeed. In Winnie Holzman’s case, one of those “next things” turned out to be the book for the with music and lyrics by Stephen Schwartz—one of the longest running shows in Broadway history. The collaboration earned her a prestigious Drama Desk Award for Outstanding Book of a Musical, as well as a Tony nomination for Best Book of a Musical. Prior to her Emmy-nominated work on “My So-Called Life,” which she created for executive producers Ed Zwick and Marshall Herskovitz, Winnie wrote several scripts for the Zwick-Herskovitz drama “,” and she would go on to serve as executive producer of “,” created by Cameron Crowe, and as co-creator of the series “,” with her daughter Savannah Dooley. Join us as Winnie reflects on her wickedly successful career writing for the stage and the small screen, the many ways writers measure their successes, and the give-and-take that has fueled her collaborations with some of the most creative minds in theater and television. Please support the sponsors who support our show: Chelsea Devantez's Daniel Paisner's Daniel Paisner's (PODCAST) | 30% discount (ASTOLDTO) | 2 audiobooks for the price of 1 when you start your membership podcast, hosted by Mark Jordan Legan and Phoef Sutton podcast podcast (WRITERSBONE) | $15 off your first order (PODCAST) | 30% discount (WRITERSBONE) | 20% discount
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Episode 77: Hal Donaldson
11/19/2024
Episode 77: Hal Donaldson
Hal Donaldson’s faith-based humanitarian organization Convoy of Hope is a magnificent agent of change. In partnership with local churches, businesses, civic organizations, and government agencies, the organization is deeply committed to healing the world in all its broken places, through children’s feeding initiatives, community outreach and disaster response. currently feeds more than 571,000 children worldwide each day—and has served more than 250 million people in total since Hal, together with his brothers and friends, started the organization in 1994. It’s the 35th largest charity on the latest Forbes “100 Largest U.S. Charities” list. So what does all of this have to do with ghostwriting? Well, before launching Convoy of Hope, Hal started out as a journalist and ghostwriter. Early on in his career, on a ghostwriting assignment in Calcutta, he had the opportunity to interview Mother Teresa, who turned the tables on their interview and asked the young journalist what he was doing to repair the world. Hal had no answer, but when he returned to the United States a short while later, he rallied his friends and family and began donating goods and supplies to communities in need. As the organization has grown, Hal has continued to write. He’s just out with his latest collaboration, , written in collaboration with his daughter Lindsay Donaldson-Kring. Join us for an inspiring conversation on what really matters, as Hal Donaldson reflects on the good works that continue to flow from the first strokes of his pen. Learn more about Hal Donaldson: Please support the sponsors who support our show: Chelsea Devantez's Daniel Paisner's Daniel Paisner's (PODCAST) | 30% discount (ASTOLDTO) | 2 audiobooks for the price of 1 when you start your membership podcast, hosted by Mark Jordan Legan and Phoef Sutton podcast podcast (WRITERSBONE) | $15 off your first order (PODCAST) | 30% discount (WRITERSBONE) | 20% discount
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Episode 76: Aaron Philip Clark
11/05/2024
Episode 76: Aaron Philip Clark
What does it take to help channel one of the most singular voices in rap in an entirely new medium? Join us as we chat with novelist and screenwriter Aaron Philip Clark, co-author of the just-published thriller , written in collaboration with rapper and entertainment mogul Curtis “50 Cent” Jackson. Aaron is perhaps best known for his International Thriller Writers Award-nominated crime fiction series featuring Detective Trevor Finnegan (, ), as well as for his standalone novels. His first book with 50 Cent introduces readers to Nia Adams, a New York-born, Texas-bred detective who always dreamed of becoming a Texas Ranger, who sets off on the tail of a hardened Vietnam vet bad guy who steals the secrets of the rich and powerful. In addition to writing fiction and screenplays, Aaron teaches creative writing at UCLA Extension, and he collaborates with a variety of public figures and luminaries. Learn more about Aaron Philip Clark: Please support the sponsors who support our show: Chelsea Devantez's Daniel Paisner's Daniel Paisner's (PODCAST) | 30% discount (ASTOLDTO) | 2 audiobooks for the price of 1 when you start your membership podcast, hosted by Mark Jordan Legan and Phoef Sutton podcast podcast (WRITERSBONE) | $15 off your first order (PODCAST) | 30% discount (WRITERSBONE) | 20% discount
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Episode 75: Betsy Lerner
10/22/2024
Episode 75: Betsy Lerner
“Lots of ambitious books announce themselves,” writes Lauren Christensen in The New York Times Book Review of podcast guest Betsy Lerner’s debut novel . “This one doesn’t need to.” High praise for a first-time novelist, but that’s not surprising considering Betsy’s long and distinguished career as an editor and literary agent. A born storyteller (and, story-sharer), Betsy has helped to shape our literary landscape, as the guiding hand behind such cultural touchstones as Patti Smith’s and Elizabeth Wurtzel’s . She’s also earned her As Told To stripes as the co-author of The New York Times best-selling , written in collaboration with Temple Grandin, in addition to writing several non-fiction books of her own, including the memoir , and the writing guidebook . A recovering poet, Betsy received an MFA in poetry from Columbia University, where she was selected as one of PEN’s Emerging Writers, before trading her pen for a red pencil and embarking on a heralded career as an editor. With the publication of her first novel, longlisted prior to publication for the , Betsy kick-starts an exciting new chapter in her writing life, offering a rich, bittersweet tale of sisterhood, mental health, love and loss, and reminding us that it’s never too late to become the artist you were always meant to be. Learn more about Betsy Lerner: Please support the sponsors who support our show: Chelsea Devantez's Daniel Paisner's Daniel Paisner's (PODCAST) | 30% discount (ASTOLDTO) | 2 audiobooks for the price of 1 when you start your membership podcast, hosted by Mark Jordan Legan and Phoef Sutton podcast podcast (WRITERSBONE) | $15 off your first order (PODCAST) | 30% discount (WRITERSBONE) | 20% discount
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