#AudioBookClub

Audiobook reviews and recommendations with Steve Phillips and Matthew Layton. Get involved in the conversation #AudioBookClub on instagram or twitter - https://twitter.com/hashtag/AudioBookClub #AudioBookClub

'Gone Before Goodbye' by Reese Witherspoon and Harlan Coben 11/10/2025

'Last Rites' by Ozzy Osbourne 11/07/2025

'What Have I Done?' by Ben Elton 10/27/2025

'This is for Everyone' by Tim Berners-Lee 10/20/2025

'The Long Shoe' by Bob Mortimer 10/10/2025

'Truly' by Lionel Richie 10/08/2025

'The Impossible Fortune' by Richard Osman 10/01/2025

‘Clown Town’ by Mick Herron 09/29/2025

'The Secret of Secrets' by Dan Brown 09/21/2025

'A Particularly Nasty Case' - by Adam Kay 09/08/2025

'Entitled' - by Andrew Lownie 08/31/2025

'Entitled' - by Andrew Lownie On this episode of #AudioBookClub: ‘Their trousers all fell down!” Steve Phillips and Matthew Layton present #AudioBookClub, a weekly podcast that reviews and recommends audiobooks. On this week’s episode we are casting an ear over Andrew Lownie’s joint biography of The Duke and Duchess of York. Entitled A: Andrew Lownie N: Andrew Lownie R: 14-08-25 L: 11 hrs and 40 mins P: William Collins #Biographies & #Memoirs Please get involved in the conversation and # #AudioBookClub on , , or On the next episode of #AudioBookClub: A: Adam Kay N: Andy Serkis R: 28-08-25 L: 10 hrs and 9 mins P: Orion #Literature #Fiction TRANSCRIPT Steve Phillips and Matthew Layton discuss Audiobook Club on this podcast Matthew Layton: Audiobook Club with Steve Phillips and Matthew Layton. Steve Phillips: On this episode of Audiobook Club. The grand old Duke of York was once a very naughty boy. Speaker C: Andrew quickly grew into the classic spoil brat. Aware of his high rank from an early age. Arrogant and overbearing, he would order staff about and according to one member of staff, be a bloody nuisance. Even the Queen described him as a bit of a handful. He was fond of practical jokes, hiding knives and forks when a footman was laying the table, tying the shoelaces of centuries, teasing his grandmother and reputedly an Anglican bishop at Balmoral as well, with a whoopee cushion, putting itching powder into his mother's bed, turning the aerial at Buckingham palace so she could not watch the racing at sundown, and putting washing up liquid in the palace pool. A valuable silver tray was used as a toboggan for sliding down palace stairs, and he would pedal furiously up and down the long red carpeted corridors on his tricycle. Almost from the beginning, he felt a strong sense of entitlement with fawning staff, lavish homes, chauffeured cars, and showed himself to be wilful, exuberant, gregarious, undisciplined and aggressive, and possessed of a limited attention span. Evelyn Muir Bell, who worked at Windsor, between 1973 and 1995, remembered him as the most troublesome royal, a tiresome little shit. Matthew Layton: Audiobook Club with Steve Phillips and Matthew Layton. Steve Phillips: Hello and welcome to Audiobook Club, the podcast about audiobooks that loves pizza express and sports. Sweats like a pig. Matt. Hi, Matt. Matthew Layton: Hello, Steve. I love making you say things. Steve Phillips: Yes. Yeah, I just sight read that. Matthew Layton: Still fun. Well, welcome back. Steve Phillips: yeah, well, welcome, welcome back, welcome back. Here we are, Season three. I did want to say a welcome back to Audiobook Club, where this week we're going through a lot of princely sums. But you came up with something much more highbrow than I ever did. Matthew Layton: yes, well, that's my job, isn't it? No, it's more low brow. I'm nothing but, but filthy low brow and smutty. oh, speaking of which, that leads me, on to another little clip I prepared that I didn't think I was gonna get the chance to play, but write up your strasse. Here is a, list of the guests from the wedding of the Duke and Duchess of York, or Prince Andrew and Sarah Ferguson, as she was until that point. that I thought you, you might enjoy. Speaker C: Almost 2,000 guests had filled the abbey, among them, Nancy Reagan, the racing driver, Jackie Stewart, the comedian Billy Connolly and his actress wife Pamela Stevenson. Elton John and his wife Renata, Michael and Shakira Kane, Barry Humphries, the American comedian Joan Rivers and the actor Anthony Andrews as well as foreign royals, aristocrats and the great and the good. Matthew Layton: How's that for Elton John and his wife Renata? That dates it, doesn't it? Steve Phillips: That's going back a little bit, isn't it? The Rise and Fall of the House of York by Andrew Lowney Well you may have noticed there dear listener, that this week we're casting an ear over entitled the Rise and Fall of the House of York by Andrew Lowney, narrated by the author, came out a couple of weeks ago as we record it's a stonking 11 hours and 40 minutes and published by William Collins and ah, this is fair to say, has set the. Well has set the. The audio book club world alight. It's the bestseller at the minute and and I'd be very remiss if we didn't cast an ear over the House of York in this week's episode. Matthew Layton: It came to my attention because a couple of weeks ago, just as the book was being released, I think the Release date was 18th of August. I'll have a look at that in a minute and confirm. but Andrew Lanley who I'd never heard of before was on many of the things that I listen to basically tearing the Duke of York a new one. And you and I having worked at the BBC, we know how these things work. If you want to plug your book you would better on Radio 5 live or BBC Breakfast or you know a newsy type programme. You've got to have a newsline. And of course the Epstein story that refuses to go away from Trump is linked to this. so the timing must have been magnificent For Lonely and his publishers that was great. So that's why I was drawn to the book. It didn't turn out to be what I expected but yeah, do expand. Steve Phillips: Do you want to expand on that now or should we park that for a little bit? Matthew Layton: Let's park that for a little bit but let's start. Chelsea Bridge is doing a biography about Duke and Duchess of York So this whole book is about the Duke and Duchess of York and their story from And even it tells both of their childhood stories as you heard from that clip in the beginning. What I've done Steve, is I'm going to ask you a question and it is her first question is have you read the book? Steve Phillips: yes, pretty much. Matthew Layton: Okay, yeah, that doesn't matter. It's almost better if you're not. So I put in the script if you scroll down to the bit where it says bance, I've given you a little visual guide. Oh, they're all there off the top of your head. What do you think of when you see. Just use it as a tool. Pretend you haven't. Pretend to the listener not giving you basically a four stage crutch. Yeah. What do you think of. We think of Prince Andrew. Steve Phillips: Steve, did you say crutch? Sorry, the line's very bad at the moment. Matthew Layton: Get off with it. Steve Phillips: well, yes, I mean this is. Matthew Layton: Well, no. What do you, what do you think, what do you think when I say Prince Andrew is what I'm trying to ask? Steve Phillips: Well, I think you summed it up in these four pictures. Shall I explain what these four pictures are? Matthew Layton: No. Pretend you haven't seen the four pictures. Steve Phillips: No. Matthew Layton: And, but I'm just giving you a little visual. The four pictures that I put up there do not exist. Just I thought they might remind you of. They might trigger something in your memory and some wise words and perhaps a historical overview or, or you can just describe the pictures. Whichever you want to do really. Steve Phillips: Well, you know me, I'm nothing if not base and simplistic. But yes, essentially, essentially Prince Andrew, the second son of the Queen. Doing a biography about Prince Andrew here. If anyone's, if no one's heard of Prince Andrew, you've come to the right place, I'll explain for you. But yeah, yeah, second son of the Queen and you know, he had a career, well I thought a distinguished career in the Royal Navy. He knocked it out the park in the Falklands and so on, got married to Sarah Ferguson, got slightly unmarried to Sarah Ferguson and then just went absolutely nuts everywhere. And frankly this book turned out, well, I don't know, a book in sort of. It's a game of two halves really, or quarters actually, because it's a double biography of both Sarah and Andrew. and it dives both into the financial sector and the private life sector and the behaviour sector and the financial sector. I don't know about you but, but it just felt like, like five and a half hour reading out of invoices. Matthew Layton: Do you know what? that is exactly where I was going to conclude this episode. But I also remember that not everybody remembers Prince, Andrew the way that we do. In fact, you made my point in that for a British listener, he's ubiquitous. For an American listener who vaguely knows of the royal family and has, has realised that Prince Andrew is linked to the, the Epstein files that supposedly don't exist or do, let's not get into that. For somebody like that, those four images that I sent you would mean nothing. So for me, yeah, you're right. Well, I remember him in a naval uniform going to the Falklands War. And that was about the time of Royal wedding number one, early 80s, where Prince Charles married Diana. About five years later, we had another royal wedding. When I was a kid, I thought these happened all the time. And he married Sarah Ferguson, who, we were told that, and a shiny redhead, you know, beautiful wedding, whatever, big ceremony. And we were told, though, various things. She was, she was a bit common, even though, I mean, I'm pretty posh, but I think she's even posher than me. But the whole idea that a woman who didn't conform to the rules, liked to drink and a smoke and, and, was cheeky. Even though she went to very posh boarding school. Her father played polo and her whole life from this book at that time, seems she doesn't leave the Chelsea, Chelsea or Kensington for about six years, whether it be living. I think she, she had a flat the other side of Battersea Bridge once, but she's always in the poshest parts of town and has ridiculous connections that led to her being in the room. But the weird thing was she was considered a bit too common for the royals. Do you remember that bit? Steve Phillips: Yeah, really vaguely. I was quite young then, I guess, but, But yes, that's what I do remember, the sort of the, the talk around it, but I think that was that at the time, it was very endearing, wasn't it? You know, a bit more. A bit more like the people, despite everything you've just said there. Matthew Layton: Yeah, but, but that was it. I mean, I think we were glad that the, the royal establishment were pissed off because this woman didn't necessarily answer the questions in the prim and proper ways that one would be expected to as a royal. And then after that, Andrew just, you know, he's, he's in the background. He hasn't really done anything iconic, so since flying that helicopter. Hadn't done anything iconic since flying that helicopter and marrying that woman. And the next time he really comes on the map is when the BBC's Emily Maitlis interviewed him on Newsnight about his links to dead paedophile Jeffrey Epstein. And basically he, he thought he'd done all right, but in the cold light of day when the interview aired, it was an embarrassment to the Royal family. He was dismissed from active duty. And, yeah, he, he now lives in disgrace I think that. I think that's a fair up some of how. How we as Brits take for granted that we feel and know about him. But remember, some people will be hearing this for the first time. So. This is the first royal biography that we have reviewed on the podcast So what do you remember when we had trouble, I tried to get people's opinions when I was living in Australia on the book Colditz, and nobody knew what Colditz was. So I think those very iconic moments are something that we take for granted, if you see what I mean. Yeah, that we know. Steve Phillips: Yeah. I mean, these four pictures, you've, you've. You've popped up on here, Navy Marriage, that. The infamous photo that sparks all this stuff. And the interview, the Newsnight interview, really, in terms of the public eye, you didn't often see him being interviewed, but a lot of the royals are like that. the interesting thing about this, this is the very first sort of royal biography that we have reviewed. Matthew Layton: No, incorrect, incorrect. Steve Phillips: Oh, apart from the David Mitchell one. Yeah. The unruly. Matthew Layton: No, no. Well, that. Oh, my God, it turns out we're royalists. no, we did the Duke of Edinburgh's one by Giles Brandreth just after he died. And. And there are bits in this where the same story is being told from a different perspective. And the, the thing that got me, in this book, Andrew Lamley had, there is journalistic rigour, but you and I have been through journalism training. So he spoke, he. He asked for contributions from 3,000 people. According to the preface of the book, he managed to speak to 300 of them. I'm not sure that I agree with the quality of some of his data, but the key moment for me was when he said, and in an open carriage behind the bride and groom on the way to the wedding in 1986, the father of the groom and the stepmother of the bride travelled, together, possibly the first time they'd been together since they had an affair in 1959. Steve Phillips: Wow, I missed that bit. Matthew Layton: I'm glad your reaction to that is the same as mine, because you and I know you can't say if you leave out the allegedly or there was rumoured to and just go, they had an affair in 1959. Even if Brandreth knew that at the time he wrote his Duke of Edinburgh book, and which we recommend it, you can listen back to that episode, if you like. Audiobookclub.net we know you need two independent, verifiable sources before you say something as confidently as that. Steve Phillips: And this interesting thing, right, he's been doing the media rounds pretty Heavily, this author, and I don't think anyone's questioned him on it from, from the interviews I've heard. I have him on the News Agents podcast, for example. Example, where actually, you know, they, they, they really kind of kick the tires, as it were, on his. You know, on the veracity of some of the stuff there. And how can you prove this? And how can you prove that? But no one's really brought up that line at all. Matthew Layton: Well, you know what? I'll tell you why, as confirmed, when we had Jenny Draper, on the show Maverick, her book Mavericks, she said it was really nice on social media. After she said it was really nice to go on a programme where someone had read. Actually read my book. And the difference is, Steve, we actually read the books. Steve Phillips: Yeah. Yeah, you definitely do. Sometimes I run out of road, but you definitely do, mate. Matthew Layton: Well, that's because you have. Steve Phillips: I don't know how you do this, by the way. You do this three or four times, like. Yeah, no, I read it. Yeah, I read it twice. I was. I think it was like 14 hours long. Where did you get. Matthew Layton: Because I have no other life. I claim I'm retired, but I'm actually unemployed. Steve Phillips: And that's dedicated to the books. Matthew Layton: And that's how we are, number 42 in the top 100 UK book podcast. Steve Phillips: Yeah, I saw the rating. I'm not happy about that. What happened there? Well, we haven't been around for a little while. It's probably it. They had. They tend to go on long sabbaticals in between seasons. Matthew Layton: They lose their mojo. Leighton has gone off for another one of his, spiritual treks, microdosing mushrooms and wandering around the desert again. He'll be back in about September. It's my right as an Australian man to go walkabout. Steve Phillips: Absolutely right, mate. Till the water bill arrives. Quite right, yeah. Matthew Layton: Three step process. Steve Phillips: Yeah, Three steps. Andrew Lowney has one of those surnames that you can pronounce incorrectly Matthew Layton: We started talking about the author and I think the author is going to be, I've got a lot to say about him. I think you. From what you said earlier, you have too, and I think it's the same thing. Steve Phillips: Yeah, indeed. I mean, yeah. Do you want to give us a lowdown on low. Down on, lounge? I don't. It's. Again, this has been. It's been quite different. He said his surname for an hour. He's got one of those surnames that you can pronounce pronounced, very wrongly or very correctly. Is it loudly or loney? Matthew Layton: yes, you've, said that now. And you may Be worried. But I listened to him loads of times and I think he said Andrew Lowney. That's in the back of my head. Anyway, I, I will go through and reinsert the correct pronunciation. if I make a mistake, that'll. Steve Phillips: Be a tight edit. Yep. Matthew Layton: Yeah. We talk about the author and whether it contributes to the experience Okay, so we're gonna do your three step process where first of all, we talk about the author because the book wouldn't be there if it weren't for the author. Then we talk about the book, and what we think of that in a conventional book review kind of way. And then of course, because we are evangelists for the audiobook, we talk about the performance, the delivery, the production of the audiobook and whether it contributes to the experience or takes away from it. So the author is Andrew Lowney. He was born on, in November in 1961 in Kenya. He was brought up in Bermuda. It says even though he was brought up in Bermuda, he also somehow managed to go to Westminster School, and studied at Magdalen College, Cambridge. He got his doctorate. Steve Phillips: It's strange how this happens, isn't it? Because basically the average kid, when growing up, you tend to live in the same catchment area as the school. Matthew Layton: Yeah. Steve Phillips: And, except if you're, I guess, a certain, you know, of a certain background. Matthew Layton: Well, hold on. So what do we looking here? We're looking at. So there's Bermuda, Ken Kenya and Bermuda. They're not oil, are they? They're just corruption, and Triangle. So he has, written a number of books, none of which I have encountered before. the topics of said books, include Stalin's Englishman, Guy Burgess, the, Mountbatten's Their Lives and Loves, and then a book about the Duchess and Duke of Windsor, which is about how they got exiled. This is interesting to me. Lowney also wrote a literary guide to, Edinburgh and has edited several volumes of John Buchan's works. I'd like to do. John Buchan is a man who wrote 39 steps and was kind of the, in one of the inspirations, for James Bond. So he now lives in London near Westminster Abbey, apparently. So, yeah. I mean he is 64 years old. He sounds posh. He comes from quite a posh background and, you know, he's an academic. He's got a, he's got a doctorate, which I think was basically just him. Him doing. What's it called? What's, what's the word? I'm thinking of Steve. Moonlighting. He was moonlighting. So. Or he was so. He was. He strangely the, His Doctoral thesis had the same name as his 2016 book that was the Stalin's Englishman one. So, you know, take that what you will. He's also chairman of basically the organisation, the Honourable Company of Biographers. So he very much sees himself in that mould and is part of an organisation that brings biographers together. They have tea and biscuits and have a chat. I should imagine so. So he's, he's very much a support supporter of that form. I think we'll come back to the way he speaks in the bit in part three where we talk about what the book sounds like. But I think it, I think in terms of accent and tone, he's not too far away from the world of this book. Book, would you agree? Steve Phillips: yes, well, I wouldn't have expected it to be narrated by Billy Bragg, this one. Matthew Layton: No. Or indeed Steve Phillips. Steve Phillips: Or indeed Steve Phillips, yes. With my, Essex background. Steve Phillips reads us the blurb from the back of a book okay, that, well, you join to do the blurb. The blurb section I love. Okay, here we go. Matthew Layton: Right, can we. No, no, can we give it a bit more build up? Because this is the only reason that all of the listeners to the number 42 best book podcast in the UK tune in, for the dulcet malif... /episode/index/show/audiobookclub/id/38035650

'Good Pop, Bad Pop' - by Jarvis Cocker 06/30/2025

'Good Pop, Bad Pop' - by Jarvis Cocker 'Good Pop, Bad Pop' - by Jarvis Cocker On this episode of #AudioBookClub: As the band Pulp release their first new music in 25 years, we join frontman Jarvis Cocker for a rummage around his attic Steve Phillips and Matthew Layton present #AudioBookClub, a weekly podcast that reviews and recommends audiobooks. On this week’s episode we heartily recommend Jarvis Cocker’s new audiobook ‘Good Pop, Bad Cop. A: Jarvis Cocker N: Jarvis Cocker R: 26th May 2022 L: 6hrs and 39 mins P: Jonathan Cape Join us as we explore the eclectic treasures from Jarvis's loft, reflecting on his life, music, and the cultural landscape of Britpop. From nostalgic anecdotes to insightful commentary, this episode is a celebration of creativity and the stories behind the objects that shape us. Please get involved in the conversation and # on , , or On the next episode of #AudioBookClub: The Rise and Fall of the House of York A: Andrew Lownie N: Andrew Lownie R: 14-08-25 L: 11 hrs and 40 mins P: William Collins #Biographies & #Memoirs TRANSCRIPT Steve Phillips: On this episode of Audiobook Club. As the band Pulp released their first new music in 25 years, we join frontman Jarvis Cocker for a rummage around his attic. Ben Folds: Good pop. Bad pop. An inventory by Jarvis Cocker, as read by me, Jarvis Cocker. Chapter one. There was a house I lived in for a while. I stored a lot of stuff in the loft of this house. When I say you stored a lot of stuff, that's really a polite way of saying used it as a skip. Steve Phillips: Audiobook Club, with Steve Phillips and Matthew Layton. Hello, and welcome to Audiobook Club, the podcast about audiobooks that is most definitely sorted out for ease and with. Thank you very much. And of course, what other line could we have had in the script there? Matthew Layton, welcome to the podcast. Matthew Layton: I did both things there, Steve. I did both copy and pace. Steve Phillips: You did, you did, absolutely. By the way, can I put a screeching halt to the podcast in the early seconds and, quickly dragging Conclave from our last episode, I think we did a massive disservice. Matthew Layton: Do you? Steve Phillips: Yeah. Robert Prevost was glued to the Conclave, you know So before we swing into Jarvis Cocker's, attic, let's, let's swing into the Pope's basilica. Matthew Layton: Okay. I, I, I said at the time, didn't I, that I thought it was like the Da Vinci Code, but without the fun. Steve Phillips: Yeah. But as I, as I, Because I hadn't finished the book, and as I finished the book and the denouement of who the, Pope was going to be from this Conclave. What a finish. What a finish. That's brilliant. I loved Conclave, and everyone should go and read it. There we go. Matthew Layton: Okay. I have to confess that actually, appropriately having. Indeed. Steve Phillips: When was your last one? Matthew Layton: Thursday. I have to confess that, I, Yeah, I found myself wanting to get to the finish and find out what the finish was. I predicted who would win, as I think everybody did, but I didn't predict the twist. Steve Phillips: I love you. This is the first time I've heard, actually. And, you know, I've been glued. I was glued to the Conclave, you know, as a lot of us were. no one ever talks about who won, who won the Conclave. It's the lottery or the footy. Matthew Layton: Who was the runner up? That's the important one. Steve Phillips: They should announce it, in a sense, like, get a bit, you know, get a bit Britain's Got Talent about it, you know, in ascending, ascending, descending, reverse order. And then the music. And let's face it, that place, the Vatican, is not Short of a dramatic tune or two, we could have had some light organ music going on the background, you know, and then a flourish at the end as we go. Robert Prevost, ladies and gentlemen. Matthew Layton: Chicago's finest. Steve Phillips: Indeed. There we go. So congratulations to, To Pope Leo. Matthew Layton: Yeah. Steve Phillips: From all or both of us here at Audiobook Club, for whatever that that's worth. And, And yes, definitely just as an addendum to our last episode where. Where we didn't give Conclave the most glowing of reviews. Go and read it. It's brilliant. Matthew Layton: Yes. Steve Phillips: Right. Matthew Layton: Pope. Pope Leo, quickly. Mazel tov. Yes. Steve Phillips: I've just got a rummage round in my. Matthew Layton: Are you're having a rummage now? Steve Phillips: Looking for the. I'm looking for the spanner to turn your. Your sensitivity. Decorum. Matthew Layton: You're turning my nuts. It'll be a little tiny one. Steve Phillips: Certainly, am. Right, okay, so we pivot now to this week's book. I love you putting the script here. You just put good cop, bad Right, okay, so we pivot now to this week's book. We are casting an ear over. Good pop, bad pop. I love you putting the script here. You just put good cop, bad cop. Fair enough. Matthew Layton: Oh, did I? Yeah, sorry. Steve Phillips: But Good pop, bad pop. and I did love that introduction, by the way, where. Where Jarvis does say. By Jarvis. Yeah, Me. Matthew Layton: Jarvis Love sums up the whole tone of the book and indeed his career. I think, you know, the way he refers to himself within the context of a formal structure with a little bit of a wink. I think he does, yeah. Steve Phillips: Which I think is annoying. There's a knowing wink, isn't it? It's like we've all been here. We've all been here rummaging throughout, rummaging through our attic and the quiet moments. Steve: The 90s were my 60s, I guess Matthew Layton: Now, now, I. You mentioned the script where I've done some. Some muzz. Prompting. I wanted to ask you, first of all, let's set this out properly. Who are, Pulp and what do you think of them, Steve? Steve Phillips: So if you've, So Pulp growing up. Well, certainly the. The 90s were my 60s, I guess. and. And Pulp were really at the forefront of those. It was a. Oh, you know what? The 90s just seemed like a really nice time when we're living in now. And when I think about the younger generation growing up and what they're having to kind of live with and how it's affecting them, the 90s was. Was. You know, obviously, they were. It had. It had its bad points. Of course, looking back now, you wouldn't get away with a lot of the stuff that was going on there. And quite rightly, however, in terms of music off, Brit pop was just fantastic. Original guitar songs, you know, original bands, amazing lyrics. It really did speak to the generation and really Pulp, were at the forefront of that and very good of them. I thought about start back in 1978 to kind of, yeah. Reach that peak in the 90s. They were, they were, they were right there. Common People was absolutely seminal. The video to Common People. I'll never forget watching that on the ITV chart show. And suddenly Jarvis Copper pops up in this shopping trolley. I, was just brilliant. It was. Yeah. So Pulpa were there. Right. Throughout the year, the 90s and also beyond. Matthew Layton: Oh, hold on, hold on, hold on. This is the second time Common People have featured on this podcast You mentioned, you mentioned Common People. The song. This, of course is the second time that not only Jarvis, but the song Common People have featured on this podcast. Can you remember the first time, to coin a phrase? Steve Phillips: Very nice. Matthew Layton: That was an accident. Steve Phillips: Different class back then. yay. Pulse Common People is about class divide amongst common people Now do we talk about William Shatner? Matthew Layton: Ah, we do, yes. Yeah, you called it. Exactly. It turns out, contrary to what I thought, you are actually listening while we're making this, this podcast too. So here's Ben Folds from, I think it was something like our fourth or fifth podcast. I met him in a lobby of a hotel in Adelaide and here he is bigging up Mr. M. Cocker. Matthew Layton: The word that jumps out at me from that part of it is also a word that I've heard you use in what is undoubtedly my favourite cover version of all time ever. no, tourist. Ben Folds: Tourist. Steve Phillips: Right. Matthew Layton: So, M. I only really understood Pulse Common People when I heard the Shatner version and heard the words independent of it. Steve Phillips: Right. Matthew Layton: Seems to me, am I putting too much meaning on a song that reflects your upbringing or is that just a happy coincidence? Ben Folds: Oh, no, no, I, I, I, I think that song is just probably the most insane, decisive pop song about that particular class divide amongst common people. Absolutely. He, Jarvis absolutely nailed it. I think it's his best song. It's just a beautiful song because it's the tourism part is the wonderful part of it. I mean that's, and, and it's a good way. And you know, I, I took it. Matthew Layton: So that's yeah, basically Ben Paul's saying, I grew up in a working class classroom, I hate class tourism too. Steve Phillips: yeah, and it's true of the lyrics that they, that they sung about. It was really, it really did speak, really did speak to you. It was very much a reflection of real life and attitudes and you know, don't get too full of yourself, basically. And their new single that was out recently, Spike island, it was another. Was another. You know, it's really. Oh, man. Yeah. A real renaissance for them, I think, over the, Over the summer to come. And looking forward to their album. Matthew Layton: Yeah, hold on. Steve Phillips: Going back. Matthew Layton: Going back to Common People for a second. And also. And it comes up about, you know, Jarvis's taste influences and aesthetics become a lot clearer. And they're laid out a lot clearer in this book than you would necessarily get from just listening to them in the background on the radio. You know, there's always more to it. In fact, do you know what Spike Island's about? Steve Phillips: Yes, it's about Stone Roses gig on Spike Island. Matthew Layton: Right. Okay. So you see, I did. I knew it was something cooler than I am, but I didn't. I didn't know what it was. There's a bit. Steve Phillips: He didn't go. Never went to the gig. No, but he. He, I think he got stories. I think he got a story of basically as a DJ there. it's a. It's a sequel to Sorted For Ease and Whiz, this new single, Spike island, because it was to do with people who kept repeating a phrase over and over again. It stuck in Jarvis Cocker's head. Basically. Sorted for Ease and Wiz. This guy kept. Kept sort of. I don't know if it might be the same. I think it was at the same gig. Kept asking everyone if they were Sorted For Ease and Whiz over and over and over again. And the. And Spike island comes from the hapless dj, who's trying to get the crowd going by going, spike island, come alive. Spike island, come alive. And that again, that's stuck in Jarvis Cocker's head. so that it went in the song. So that's one of the lyrics. It's like, spike island come alive again. I think it was that anyway. Yeah. So that's where it comes from. Matthew Layton: You're a huge Pulp fan. In fact, you mentioned that when we were talking about the stuff we've listened to on the BBC and the last week you made the point that you had listened to BBC 6 Music specifically to catch the. The new song and. And an interview, didn't you? So you're quite a big fan. And you're. You're into them, aren't you? Steve Phillips: Well, I'm into them, but I, You know, not. I mean, I wouldn't say I'm a close fan. I think what it does is. It's part of my. My total malaise in. In being, you Know, very misty eyed about the past, thinking how much nicer it was. So, you know, if it had been Blur making a comeback and they launched a smash single, I might be all about that or Suede or, I don't know, Sleeper or something. Matthew Layton: I just realised, oh, I've met Louise from Sleeper twice. Steve Phillips: One, of our friends actually did a pog, does a podcast and I think, starring Louise, winner from Sleeper. Matthew Layton: Top poker player as well as rockstar and novelist. Steve Phillips: It's called the Crisis. The Crisis, right. Where she interviews people about how they're dealing with a midlife crisis when they were like, big in. Matthew Layton: I would love to hear that. I met her after a gig she did in Hamburg So I met her twice. I met her after a gig she did in Hamburg and I went, hi, I'm. I'm living here in Hamburg. And, I, really like what you're doing. And she was really nice. She came out and had drinks with the audience after the show and she did the same. I think it was about eight years later in Vancouver. I said, I remember, I saw you in a Hamburg. And she was very lovely. Steve Phillips: And at that point, despite your Tommy. Matthew Layton: Cooper impression, at that point, yeah, I. I had to go, oh, she's really nice. And, she's also beautiful, but I have to go away now because I'm too drunk. Steve Phillips: There you go. Matthew Layton: That's very interesting. That's a bad face. Steve Phillips: Do you know what? Actually it's interesting you say that because I can't meet my heroes, I can't meet anyone famous without coming across. As you've probably heard on this podcast, I just come across all sycophantic. And thank you for being in the same orbit as us and deigning to, you know, grace us with your presence. I can't. I don't know why, because, you know, m. I've worked in lots of orbits and things, but I have to sort of work with them for 10 years before, before we speak. Matthew Layton: I'll tell you why that is, Steve. It's because you're a lovely human being. Should we move? Get this. I'm gonna do you. I'm gonna do your bit now. Should we move from. From orbit to Wrigley's Extra? Steve Phillips: There you go. You see how I do that more subtly than you? You just go, shut up, Steve. I'm gonna say this now. That's basically go. I think of my segues. How do you feel about Pulp over the years Gentlemen. Matthew Layton: Can we just. Before we do it, can we just do the class thing again? Because, Thanks for asking how I feel about Pulp. That's really kind of you as much I've just said you. Steve Phillips: How do you feel about Pulp? Matthew Layton: Well, do you know what, as a kid who went to a public school and this is very defiantly a working class point of view and I sort of felt that it was a party to which I was not invited. And as I say, they were there, they were part of the background. But I have to say that over the years, possibly in the same way as you, you know, I didn't necessarily get it at the time, but they creep up on you, don't they? And it becomes part of the, or the sort of the furniture that, you know, it becomes familiar. The same with David Bowie. I, I've heard so many people rattle on so much about David Bowie, but the first time I heard him, when I was eight years old, it was let's Dance. It was a perfectly reasonable pop song. And again, yeah, for me Pulp were part of the time and didn't stand out for me. But over the years I think I've grown to respect and like them more. And part of that actually was Jarvis's six music show where I started to get what he was on about just by the, the general subjects that he covered and, and the way that he spoke. So, so yes, I like them more now. I think I understand it better. Steve Phillips: Yeah, I used to love Jarvis Cockers, Jarvis Cocker's Night Shift where he sort of, you know, explored the the world of night shift workers and things. That was. Yeah, it was really good. And I like his delivery as well. I mean this book was certainly something you could literally go. It's literally a book at bedtime because you could quite happily go to sleep listening to it. It was really at that sort of feel about it where you just be sent off to a really nice sort of nice sort of cosy place and then you can just kind of drift off. Anyway, don't drift off just yet because we've got to do our three step process. Good Pop, Bad Pop is an intimate and immersive biography of Jarvis Cocker There it is, where we talk about the author, we talk about the text of the book and then we discuss the performance, or indeed narration of the audiobook. And does the audio version bring anything vastly superior to just buying it off a shelf and reading the thing? So Matthew, the author himself, like we've just been speaking about him for the last 20 minutes. Matthew Layton: Anyway, yeah, Jarvis Branson Cocker was born on 19th September 1963. He is an English, it says on Wikipedia, musician. I'd put that in inverted commas a bit. As the founder, frontman, lyricist and Only consistent member of the band Pulp. He became a reluctant figurehead of the Brit pop genre in the mid-1990s. Funny, I just remembered. Do you remember when he, he, he did, a stage invasion at the Brit Awards for Michael Jackson? Do you remember that? Steve Phillips: Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Matthew Layton: He, Michael Jackson was performing Earth Song, and it was all rather over the top. Jarvis had had a couple of whiskeys and jumped, up on the stage, danced around a bit and then kind of got a bit lost and was shown to me, the audience. Yeah. Did he moan the audience? I'd forgotten that. Steve Phillips: I think he did. I think he got it. I think he got his, his posterior out. Yeah. And Bob Mortimer got him. Got him off of the legal thing. Matthew Layton: Oh, did he? Steve Phillips: Yeah, he did, yeah. the anecdote, I think was Bob. Matthew Layton: Mortimer, m bloke in a pub told you, and it was on the Internet. That's two independent sources. It must be true. Cocker has also pursued a solo career, and for seven years he presented the BBC Radio 6 music show, Jarvis Cocker's Sunday Service. Ah. And he was replaced by Iggy Pop in that slot. So it just shows you the. The sort of status that he is held in in this country. Steve Phillips: I love, the idea of a Sunday surface, though. It'd be a big doily on it. Wouldn't there be nice sort of lace tablecloth on a Sunday. Matthew Layton: You know what? You're hitting all the marks this week. You're getting everything absolutely right. yeah, Doilies. You'd think there might be some doilies somewhere in Jarvis's attic. Steve Phillips: Yeah. Oh, there's got to be, isn't there? Matthew Layton: Yeah, exactly. Steve Phillips: Covered in the book. That's for book two, clearly. Matthew Layton: Well, why don't you? Again, the only reason people tune into this nonsense is the wonderful way in which you read the blurb out of. Off of the back of books. Please, maestro, take it away. Steve Phillips: As we know, that's an utter lie. What if the things we kept hidden say more about us than those we put on display? We will have a random collection of the things that made us. Photos, tickets, clothes, souvenirs stuffed in a box, packed in a suitcase, crammed into a drawer. When Jarvis Cocker starts clearing out his loft, he finds a jumble of objects that catalogue his story and ask him some awkward questions. Who do you think you are? Or who do you think you are? Are clothes important? And why are there so many pairs of broken glasses up here? From a gold star poly cotton shirt to a pack of Wrigley's extra. From his teenage attempts to write songs to the sexy laughs, fantastic dirty joke book,... /episode/index/show/audiobookclub/id/36973070