The China in Africa Podcast

Twice-weekly discussion about China's engagement across Africa and the Global South hosted by journalist Eric Olander and Asia-Africa scholar Cobus van Staden in Johannesburg.

China's Place in the New Post-American International Order 01/23/2026

China's Place in the New Post-American International Order Canadian Prime Minister Mark Carney's speech at the World Economic Forum in Davos this week will likely be remembered as one of the most significant orations of the early 21st century. Carney channeled the fear and frustration of many global leaders when he defiantly declared that the U.S.-led international order is over. The "rupture" that Carney referenced in his address has profound consequences for China as it moves to reshape a part of this new international order to better align with its interests. Zongyuan Zoe Liu, a senior fellow at the Council on Foreign Relations and a senior research scholar at Columbia University, joins Eric & Cobus to discuss why this is such a pivotal time for China as it moves to become a peer power of the United States, at least economically, without triggering the so-called "Thuycides Trap" that dictates this kind of rivalry often leads to war. Show Notes: Foreign Affairs: by Zongyuan Zoe Liu 📌 Topics covered in this episode: Mark Carney’s Davos speech and the declaration of a global rupture The collapse of the rules-based international order What a post-American world looks like for middle powers Economic coercion and the weaponization of supply chains Where China fits in the new global order China’s long economic war and leverage strategy The Global South’s trust gap with China Why the debt trap narrative persists despite evidence China as an opportunity rather than ally in emerging markets The rapid erosion of U.S. global credibility Join the Discussion: X: | | Facebook: YouTube: Now on Bluesky! Follow CGSP at Follow CGSP in French and Spanish: French: | Spanish: | Join us on Patreon! Become a CGSP Patreon member and get all sorts of cool stuff, including our Week in Review report, an invitation to join monthly Zoom calls with Eric & Cobus, and even an awesome new CGSP Podcast mug! /episode/index/show/b3f2a027-658f-4f2b-812a-d8c56362e481/id/39846355

What Did Wang Yi Accomplish on His Low-Key Africa Tour? 01/16/2026

Why Wang Yi Chose Somalia, Ethiopia, Tanzania & Lesotho for His 2026 Africa Tour 01/09/2026

2025 China-Africa Year in Review 12/25/2025

China's Outsized Role in West Africa's Illegal Resource Trade 12/18/2025

China's Outsized Role in West Africa's Illegal Resource Trade Every year, illegal mining, fishing, and logging drain billions of dollars from West Africa's economies as the problem persists largely unchecked, with Chinese actors playing an outsized role. Fueled by chronic corruption among local regulators across the region and seemingly insatiable demand for these resources in China, curtailing these illegal activities often feels impossible. But there's still hope. Earlier this year, a group of 21 scholars and analysts, mostly from West Africa, came together to develop new solutions and policy recommendations to reform the mining, timber, and fishing trades, empowering local communities while reducing local corruption. Their findings were released earlier this fall in a series of three reports co-published by the Keogh School of Global Affairs at the University of Notre Dame and the Atlantic Council in Washington, D.C. Two of the project organizations, Notre Dame Professor Joshua Eisenman, and Caroline Costello, assistant director of the Atlantic Council's Global China Hub, join Eric & Géraud to discuss the reports and how China can play a constructive role in helping to end illegal resource extraction in West Africa. 📌 Topics covered include: China’s environmental footprint in West Africa Why illegal extraction persists despite strong laws The politics behind “China-free” resource corridors Lessons from China’s ivory ban and whether rosewood could be next What African governments — not just China — must do differently Download the reports: Show Notes: The Financial Times: by David Pilling and Leslie Hook Foreign Policy: by Joshua Eisenman and Caroline Costello Environmental Investigation Agency: Join the Discussion: X: | | | Facebook: YouTube: Now on Bluesky! Follow CGSP at Follow CGSP in French and Spanish: French: | Spanish: | Join us Patreon! Become a CGSP Patreon member and get all sorts of cool stuff, including our Week in Review report, an invitation to join monthly Zoom calls with Eric & Cobus, and even an awesome new CGSP Podcast mug! /episode/index/show/b3f2a027-658f-4f2b-812a-d8c56362e481/id/39450690

China’s Role in Africa’s Industrialization: Obstacle, Partner, or Both? 12/12/2025

Why the U.S.-DRC Mining Deal is Bad News For China 12/06/2025

China at COP30 and the New Politics of Climate Change 11/27/2025

China at COP30 and the New Politics of Climate Change With the U.S. absent from two major international summits this month, the G20 in South Africa and the COP30 in Brazil, we got an early look at what the post-American order is starting to look like. In both instances, China moved to fill the void left by the U.S., taking on a much more prominent role. Anika Patel, China analyst at the non-profit climate news site Carbon Brief, reported extensively from COP30 and noted a key difference in Beijing's messaging at the different summits in Johannesburg and Belém. In South Africa, Chinese Premier Li Qiang sought to position Beijing as an emergent global norm-setter, whereas in Brazil, the Chinese delegation explicitly rejected a leadership role. Anika joins Eric & Cobus to discuss China's complicated position at the COP30 summit and why, even though it's the world's leader in climate energy and technology, the country explicitly doesn't want the designation "climate leader." 📌 Key topics in this episode: • China’s unusually prominent role at COP30 as the U.S. stayed away • Why China rejects the “climate leader” label despite its influence • How consensus politics shaped COP30 outcomes on finance, fossil fuels, and just transition • Climate finance tensions and China’s insistence on developing-country status • Battles over CBAM, EV tariffs, rare earths, and other unilateral trade measures • How developing countries weigh cheap Chinese green tech against local industry goals • Why China’s carbon market, energy transition, and pavilion drew huge interest at COP30 SHOW NOTES: Carbon Brief: Carbon Brief: JOIN THE DISCUSSION: X: | | Facebook: YouTube: Now on Bluesky! Follow CGSP at FOLLOW CGSP IN FRENCH & SPANISH: French: | Spanish: | JOIN US ON PATREON! Become a CGSP Patreon member and get all sorts of cool stuff, including our Week in Review report, an invitation to join monthly Zoom calls with Eric & Cobus, and even an awesome new CGSP Podcast mug! /episode/index/show/b3f2a027-658f-4f2b-812a-d8c56362e481/id/39190305

How China Uses Parliamentary Buildings to Build Influence in Africa 11/25/2025

Chinese Nationals’ Role in Africa’s Illicit Weapons, Mining, and Money Flows 11/21/2025

Chinese Nationals’ Role in Africa’s Illicit Weapons, Mining, and Money Flows There's mounting evidence that Chinese organized crime syndicates are moving more of their operations from countries in Southeast Asia to Africa. These groups are contributing to a surge in illicit crypto mining, scam centers, illegal wildlife trafficking, and black market weapons sales. African countries with already weak governance systems are particularly vulnerable. Géraud speaks with Adam Rousselle, a researcher and author who tracks the illicit arms trade, about his recent article on the topic published by the Jamestown Foundation. Adam explains how all of the different Chinese illegal trade networks in Africa are interlinked with one another. SHOW NOTES: United Nations Office on Drugs and Crime: Jamestown Foundation: by Adam Rouselle CHAPTERS: The Illicit Underworld – How illegal mining, logging, and weapons flows shape China–Africa debates Individuals vs the State – Why Chinese nationals abroad are often mistaken for Beijing’s agents South Kivu Gold Trail – What the recent court case reveals about Chinese smuggling networks Governance Gaps – How weak enforcement and political protection fuel illicit economies Cryptocurrency Networks – The rise of Chinese-linked crypto operations in Nigeria and beyond Weapons on the Move – Why Chinese-made guns keep appearing in Africa’s conflict zones The UAE Hub – How Dubai became the transit point for arms and illicit finance The Leaky Bucket – Why illicit flows don’t imply coordination or state intent Local Complicity – The real role of African politicians, militaries, and brokers Reputational Risks for Beijing – Embassy frustrations and the cost of unmanaged actors Media Distortions – How U.S. and European narratives simplify complex realities JOIN THE DISCUSSION: X: | | Facebook: YouTube: Now on Bluesky! Follow CGSP at FOLLOW CGSP IN FRENCH & SPANISH: French: | Spanish: | JOIN US ON PATREON! Become a CGSP Patreon member and get all sorts of cool stuff, including our Week in Review report, an invitation to join monthly Zoom calls with Eric & Cobus, and even an awesome new CGSP Podcast mug! /episode/index/show/b3f2a027-658f-4f2b-812a-d8c56362e481/id/39119170

Is China's "Engineering State" the New Development Model for the Global South? 11/14/2025

Is China's "Engineering State" the New Development Model for the Global South? China’s rapid ascent from rural poverty to industrial superpower reshaped the global economy and established a new center of gravity for manufacturing. Today, Chinese factories anchor much of the world’s supply chains, producing goods at a speed and scale that few countries can match. Behind this transformation is a system that author Dan Wang describes in his new book "" as the “engineering state,” a model defined by massive investments in infrastructure, strategic planning, and so-called "process knowledge" gleaned from the country's rapid industrial development. Now, more and more, the Chinese government touts this development model as an example for other countries in the Global South to emulate. Dan joins Eric to discuss whether the so-called "engineering state" is replicable elsewhere or if it's a uniquely Chinese phenomenon. CHAPTERS: • Setting the Stage – China’s rise from rural poverty to industrial superpower • The Engineering State – How China builds, plans, and organizes at a massive scale • Roots of the Model – East Asian development traditions and Soviet legacies • Infrastructure as Strategy – High-speed rail, bridges, airports, and the costs behind them • Industrial Capacity – Manufacturing clusters, supply chains, and process knowledge • The Speed Advantage – Why Chinese firms move faster than global competitors • Tech Transfer Debates – Joint ventures, old IP, and myths about forced transfers • Subsidies and Support – What Chinese industrial subsidies do—and what they don’t • Exporting the Model – Limits of replication in Africa, Asia, and the Global South • The China Price – How scale, logistics, and workforce learning lock in dominance • Internal Tensions – Debt, underused infrastructure, and diminishing returns • Shifting Priorities – Xi’s push away from consumer tech and toward strategic industries • Global Backlash – Overcapacity, trade pushback, and rising protectionism • Future Crossroads – Why China’s development engine is losing momentum • Lessons for the Global South – What countries can adapt—and what they must avoid JOIN THE DISCUSSION: X: | Facebook: YouTube: Now on Bluesky! Follow CGSP at FOLLOW CGSP IN FRENCH & SPANISH: French: | Spanish: | JOIN US ON PATREON! Become a CGSP Patreon member and get all sorts of cool stuff, including our Week in Review report, an invitation to join monthly Zoom calls with Eric & Cobus, and even an awesome new CGSP Podcast mug! /episode/index/show/b3f2a027-658f-4f2b-812a-d8c56362e481/id/39030195

Why China's Ability to Make a $6 Toaster is a Big Problem for the Global South 11/12/2025

Why China's Ability to Make a $6 Toaster is a Big Problem for the Global South China is breaking the rules of development. Typically, as countries progress up the value chain, they transition from agriculture to light industry, then to heavy industry, and ultimately to high-technology and services. And as they move up the value chain, this creates opportunities for less-developed countries to advance. But China's not doing that. Chinese manufacturers are holding on to their immense productive capacity, enabling them to produce both low-tech sneakers and high-tech semiconductors at a scale and cost that are unrivaled. Now, as developing countries around the world seek to move up the value chain, they will have to compete head-on against the dreaded "China Price." James Kynge, who covered China for nearly 30 years at the Financial Times, delved into this challenge in a fascinating audiobook that came out earlier this year, "." James joins Eric from London to explain how China's ability to produce a $6 toaster exemplifies the country's enormous manufacturing advantage that will be very difficult, if not impossible, for other countries to match. CHAPTERS: • Introduction – The $6 toaster and the global value chain crisis • The Flying Geese Model – How automation broke development’s old path • China’s Dual Reality – A continent-sized economy of billionaires and low-wage labor • Industrial Clusters – The unbeatable advantage of Shenzhen and the Pearl River Delta • The Global South’s Dilemma – Competing against the “China price” • Automation and Inequality – Why manufacturing isn’t moving offshore • The $1 Trillion Surplus – Trade backlash and global tensions • Searching for Solutions – Industrial policy and self-strengthening in the Global South • Winners and Losers – Cheap exports, consumer gains, and producer pain • Political Risk – Xi Jinping’s lesson from Western deindustrialization • The Humanoid Robot Moment – From $6 toasters to $6,000 robots • China’s Auto Revolution – BYD and the new wave of affordable EVs • The Double-Edged Future – Opportunity and disruption in China’s rise SHOW NOTES: Financial Times: by James Kynge Financial Times: C by James Kynge and Keith Fray JOIN THE DISCUSSION: X: | | Facebook: YouTube: Now on Bluesky! Follow CGSP at FOLLOW CGSP IN FRENCH & SPANISH: French: | Spanish: | JOIN US ON PATREON! Become a CGSP Patreon member and get all sorts of cool stuff, including our Week in Review report, an invitation to join monthly Zoom calls with Eric & Cobus, and even an awesome new CGSP Podcast mug! /episode/index/show/b3f2a027-658f-4f2b-812a-d8c56362e481/id/39003070

How China Changed Its Image in the African News Media 11/08/2025

How China Changed Its Image in the African News Media Ten years ago, African news coverage of China's engagement on the continent was often quite negative and repackaged many of the critical Western narratives. Today, the situation is very different. China has spent considerable resources cultivating closer ties with African news outlets. Through a combination of journalist junkets, so-called "content sharing agreements," and Chinese equipment donations to African state broadcasters, Beijing has been very effective in generating much more positive coverage. In this special episode from the African Investigative Journalism Conference at Wits University in Johannesburg, Eric & Cobus speak with Aggrey Mutambo, Africa editor at the Daily Nation newspaper in Kenya, about the changing Chinese narrative in the African news media. CHAPTERS: • Introduction – From Johannesburg and the African Investigative Journalism Conference • A Decade of Change – How China’s media image in Africa evolved • Shifting Narratives – From Western framing to African perspectives • Building Influence – Beijing’s strategy for cultivating local journalists • The Tools of Soft Power – Junkets, content sharing, and equipment donations • Inside the Newsroom – How editors like Aggrey Mutambo see China coverage now • Competing Stories – Western skepticism vs. Chinese engagement • Frustration with the West – Why African journalists are rethinking narratives • The Xinjiang Question – How African reporters interpret Chinese messaging • Development and Delivery – The appeal of China’s efficiency model • Trade, Trust, and Strategy – What Kenya and South Africa want from Beijing • The Next Chapter – What balanced China–Africa journalism could look like JOIN THE DISCUSSION: X: | | Facebook: YouTube: Now on Bluesky! Follow CGSP at FOLLOW CGSP IN FRENCH & SPANISH: French: | Spanish: | JOIN US ON PATREON! Become a CGSP Patreon member and get all sorts of cool stuff, including our Week in Review report, an invitation to join monthly Zoom calls with Eric & Cobus, and even an awesome new CGSP Podcast mug! /episode/index/show/b3f2a027-658f-4f2b-812a-d8c56362e481/id/38958555

China’s Evolution from "Rules Taker" to "Rules Maker" in Development Finance 11/03/2025

China’s Evolution from "Rules Taker" to "Rules Maker" in Development Finance As China’s economic influence expands, so does its ambition to shape the very system that once constrained it. In this episode of The China-Global South Podcast, Eric speaks with Greg Chin and Kevin Gallagher from Boston University’s Global Development Policy Center about that details China's transformation from a "rules taker" within the Bretton Woods system to a "rules maker" who's now reshaping the international development finance architecture. Greg and Kevin explore the country’s growing role in the IMF and World Bank, its creation of new institutions like the Asian Infrastructure Investment Bank (AIIB) and the New Development Bank (NDB), and what this means for developing nations navigating between Western and Chinese-led finance. CHAPTERS: • Introduction – A brief calm in U.S.–China tensions • Rule Taker → Rule Maker – China’s rise inside global finance • Building Alternatives – Creating the AIIB and NDB • Two-Way Countervailing Power – Leveraging inside–outside influence • Green Finance and “Next Practices” – Raising the bar on development norms • Debt and Diplomacy – How China handles restructuring • Institutional Layering – Shaping without dismantling • Washington’s Dilemma – Anxiety over losing control • The Global South’s New Agency – More options, more leverage • A New Multilateral Moment – Uncertain future for global governance SHOW NOTES: 📚 Read the book JOIN THE DISCUSSION: X: | | Facebook: YouTube: Now on Bluesky! Follow CGSP at FOLLOW CGSP IN FRENCH & SPANISH: French: | Spanish: | JOIN US ON PATREON! Become a CGSP Patreon member and get all sorts of cool stuff, including our Week in Review report, an invitation to join monthly Zoom calls with Eric & Cobus, and even an awesome new CGSP Podcast mug! /episode/index/show/b3f2a027-658f-4f2b-812a-d8c56362e481/id/38895085