Salesforce Admins Podcast
The Salesforce Admins podcast features real-life Salesforce Admins, product managers, and community leaders who transform businesses, careers, and community with clicks, not code. This 20min (sometimes a bit more) weekly podcast hosted by Mike Gerholdt feature episodes to empower Salesforce Admins who are implementing Enterprise CRM solutions. There may be some (digital) confetti. For more than our most recent episodes, go to https://admin.salesforce.com/salesforce-admin-podcast.
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How Admins Can Embrace the AI Shift
11/20/2025
How Admins Can Embrace the AI Shift
Today on the Salesforce Admins Podcast, we talk to Prag Ravichandran Kamalaveni, Founder & CEO of Skilled Cohort and the Founder & Co-Chair of Salesforce Saturday Cohort Canada. Join us as we chat about his Dreamforce presentation on AI readiness and how to be a better storyteller. You should for the full episode, but here are a few takeaways from our conversation with Prag Ravichandran Kamalaveni. Why AI is moving technology from clicks to chats I caught up with Prag fresh off his Dreamforce presentation about AI readiness. The idea for his talk came from thinking about what people were saying years ago, when he started attending the conference, compared to now. If we’re talking about Agentforce this year, what will we be talking about in five years? In ten years? “We are moving away from clicks and moving towards chats,” Prag says. AI currently sits in the application layer, working as a tool on top of your org. But as these functionalities become more deeply embedded in everything we do, Prag predicts that an “agentic layer” will sit directly on top of your data. What this all means is that data cleanup and data quality need to be top priorities for your organization to get the most out of AI. How to find presentation topics As a 10-time Dreamforce speaker, Prag has a simple and effective approach for how he turns ideas into presentations. It starts with the topics—pick something you’re excited to talk about. The best topics are in areas where you have some experience but want to learn more. “Curiosity is fundamental for success,” Prag says. Write out a list of topics that you’re curious about, and then look at the big picture of how they might fit together in a presentation. Prag also points out that you don’t need to write a fully finished 20-minute script to submit for a conference. Technology moves so quickly that by the time you’re actually giving your talk, half of the information will be out of date. Write a good abstract and focus on the core concepts. Finally, keep a sense of perspective and don’t get discouraged by rejection. As an event organizer myself, I see plenty of great presentation ideas that just don’t fit with the event as a whole. It’s all about persistence, so keep at it. Forget the script—go for flexibility and rehearsal So you’ve submitted some great topics and booked that speaking gig—how do you prepare? As he’s gained more experience as a speaker, Prag has stopped trying to write a detailed script. Instead of focusing on the exact words you have to say, think about what you want your audience to understand. Practice makes perfect, so make sure to take the time to rehearse your speech in front of friends, family, and anyone who will give you input. Prag has found ChatGPT to be effective for doing a few practice runs, once he prompted it to stop being so complimentary and give him direct feedback. Listen to the full episode for more insights from Prag about AI readiness and how to be a great presenter. And don’t forget to subscribe to the Salesforce Admins Podcast to catch us every Thursday. Podcast swag Learn more Salesforce Admins Podcast Episode: Admin Trailblazers Group Social Full show transcript Mike: This week on the Salesforce Admins Podcast, we're joined by Prag to talk all things AI readiness, from Dreamforce stages to real world slide decks, so if you've ever wondered how to prep for a major presentation in a fast moving AI world, or how tools like ChatGPT can play coach, creator and confidence booster, I promise you, you're in for a treat. Now, Prag shares what it takes to go from idea to impactful delivery, plus the pivotal role that data plays in getting AI ready. Now, whether you're planning your next big talk or just curious how AI fits into your workflow, this episode has something for you. So with that, let's get Prag on the podcast. So Prag, welcome to the podcast. Prag: Pleasure to be here, Mike, with you. Mike: Let's get started, for those people that didn't see your presentation at Dreamforce or haven't bumped into you in the community, let's do a little bit, tell me how you got started in the Salesforce community and what you presented at Dreamforce this year. Prag: Wow, okay. So you are backdating probably 15 years ago, that's when I started Salesforce. This was the pre-Salesforce classic version is when I started, and Salesforce evolved a lot, and I couldn't believe that it's already 15 years past, and I think this Dreamforce is my sixth or maybe seventh. Mike: Wow. Prag: But every Dreamforce for me is pretty amazing because of the energy and people around the globe who could able to come join us, exchange ideas, mostly the problems and the pain they're going through, it's fantastic. So I always look for Dreamforce every single year, and the energy that I take away from Dreamforce is obviously the biggest driver for me. I know people sometimes complain that they become tired by end of day four. I think, me, on the opposite, I allow to steal energy from others, so I take more energy, if it is crazy week like Dreamforce, and that's fantastic feeling for me. Mike: So you're taking other people's energy, oh no. I think this year you presented about getting AI ready. Can you talk to me? I mean, if you think about it, even in the short time that you've been, if you go back six or seven Dreamforces ago, I promise you we probably weren't talking AI, and now we are. How was that presentation and what did you talk about? Prag: So it's a very, very new topic to a lot of us. We are consuming AI in a lot of ways, and I'm pretty sure almost everyone who is listening to this podcast might have used some version of ChatGPT or Gemini at some point, but I started believing in my co-speaker, like we both started believing that we all are going to start using AI as part of our work. So the presentation, we started in a way that in the next five to 10 years, what we predict is we are going to move from application layer to data centric layer. What it means is the AI or the agent layer is going to sit on top of the data layer, and the phrase we actually mentioned at our session was, we are moving away from clicks and moving towards chats. So that's going to be a very interesting starting point when it comes to AI. How are we going to consume AI? Mike: Yeah, I mean, I feel like having just come off of [inaudible 00:04:26], even if people don't want to talk AI, they're still talking AI about just about everything. I even had an AI conversation with my Lyft driver, which I will tell you, that was probably the first time I've ever had that. Yeah. Prag: That's nice. Yeah, I think none of us could able to avoid the topic. Mike: So what did you see at Dreamforce this year that you're excited maybe to have come GA or just the next advancements in what could come out for Salesforce in 2026? Prag: Wow, there's a lot of things, but being very honest, I enjoyed this Dreamforce because the message was clear. If your AI needs to work, you need to have the right data. I think that message was little bit under the hood for a while, but I think it's been clearly communicated this time that any kind of AI content that you consume during Dreamforce, it's not even disclaimer, it's very clear that, "Hey, you need to have the right data to make sure that your AI works the way you want it to work." So first of all, kudos to the team who made this approach of making the message clear about the data layer, which is super important to make your AI works. But I also super excited about the naming convention and the name change of all the products. Mike: Oh? Prag: It's not easy to move from sales cloud to agent force sales. That's a big difference. That means that there is an organization switch at the company level, or at the product level, there's going to be a lot of agent force presence going to come along that we are going to start using probably much faster and much sooner. Those are all kind of an indications that I got, but at the same time, at the keynote, I was super surprised to see Patrick doing a demo of agent code wipe. That's beyond what I would expect to see at the keynote floor. Mike: Well, that's the whole reason we do keynotes is to wow and amaze you. Prag: Yeah, it is definitely worth getting the goosebumps moments there, for sure. Mike: Yeah. Well, let's talk a little bit about, so you presented at Dreamforce and you talked about getting AI ready, I think absent of talking about your presentation, one thing that's really relevant having just come off of a community conference, and I know quickly the holidays will be here and gone and it'll be January, February and community conferences, user groups, Trailblazer DX will be coming back. I'd love to hear your perspective on if you had some advice or things that you would love to share about how you got ready to present at Dreamforce that would be helpful for others. Prag: I think what I have done in the past as a mistake was, oh, I want to make sure that my presentation is ready or the content is completely ready before I even submit my topics to talk about. I think that's a biggest mistake that I have done in my own life and the moment I started coming out of it, because the things are changing much faster. You cannot have something ready assuming that you can present that in three months or four months, then you're going to be old dated content. So my suggestion would be, start picking up the topics that you are excited to talk about. You have experience, but also wants to gain more experience. So the curiosity is the fundamental success for you to have a successful content delivery and for that, pick a range of topics. So I'm always the security guy. I love talking about Salesforce security. It's just my thing. And now I love data. I started talking about data layers in different angles, and since I talk about security and data layer, I could able to start adopting AI topics because when you talk about anything AI, you need to have two most important things, which is the data and how secure that AI have access to the data. So it's kind of putting those puzzles together is going to be phase two of how you can start thinking of presenting to either the community conferences or trial ideas or even at Salesforce World Tours. So these are the two fundamental things that I would be picking before I start worrying about how to deliver that presentation. Mike: Yeah, I completely agree, I mean, selfishly, the event organizer in me would love to have everybody have all their topics ironed out, but in reality, if you have a really good idea and a really thoughtful abstract that explains it, it makes me think of the Wayne Gretzky quote, you just have to skate to where the puck will be. Which is you have to know that you're going to create that presentation even though it's not created right now, so I think that's really good advice because sometimes people can think they have to sit down and have a fully vetted idea before they submit, and you don't, you just have to know that your idea will come together and be incredibly helpful for others. Prag: Exactly. Again, I was one of those folks who made that mistake, but the moment I moved out of it, now I start my presentation with just a piece of paper or a Google Doc. I won't even go to Google Slide and have four or five bullets. I would, "Okay, this is the four or five things I want to talk about that. What could be a potential title?" And then I pick a title and I usually submit at least three or four different kinds and versions of the content, because again, don't give up if your topic didn't get selected. I have seen so many people, if they don't get selected to speak within the first two or three times, then they started believing that they are not the good presenters or they don't know how to submit their topics, and they started giving up on not taking that approach of submitting the topics. I want to tell them that my topics has been rejected many times compared to the times of the topics that's been selected. So rejection is good at times to make sure that it's not your turn yet doesn't mean that you never get your turn. Mike: Yeah, I mean, having been on both sides of the fence on that, it's amazing, but if you think about it relevant to other things like applying for a job, you apply for jobs when you're searching for a job. And yes, there's jobs that you really want, but you also apply knowing you're not just the only person applying, and to your point, it's not like you find one job and apply for it and then go, "Oh, well, I guess nobody ever will employ me again, just because I got rejected from that one." From an event standpoint, it's a combination of, what are the contents being submitted, what is the mix that the event is looking for, and what do I have to pick from? And sometimes you can be one of a thousand submissions on a certain topic, and it's not that your content isn't good, it's one of a thousand, and there's maybe only two or three slots. And other times it can be, boy, I've had it where, like in your case, I've needed one or two sessions on a certain topic, and thankfully there was one or two submissions on that. And so I hate to say it's luck, but a lot of it is. It's being open and flexible and kind of making presentations that fit for what the organizer's looking for. Prag: Exactly, exactly. So I think if people get clarity around that, I think they won't get demotivated for not getting selected. Mike: No, I mean, it's also, how many times do you buy a lottery ticket and you don't win the lottery, right? If you bought a lottery ticket, you're like, "Well, I'm going to win." And then you don't win and you're like, "I'm never buying a lottery ticket again." Come on. I mean, I hate to say it's the same way, but part of it is that's kind of just how, when you're in a big pool like that, it works, and sometimes the reverse also holds true. You can submit something and it may be a great presentation, it just doesn't fit for what the company or the organization's looking for. I mean, I've gone through lots of call for presentations for other events, and I'm like, "This is a really good subject." And from my perspective, it's really good, but from an organizer's perspective, it's good, it just doesn't fit what they're looking for. And so it's like being cinnamon and somebody's trying to make a ravioli dish, and I'm not saying cinnamon's bad, cinnamon's really good with sugar and frosting. You can make cinnamon rolls, it's just, we're trying to make ravioli over here and cinnamon doesn't work out. Prag: Yeah, yeah, no, I one hundred percent agree with that. So yeah, these are all something that I suggest people to think before submitting their topics. But once it gets accepted, I think the best thing that you can do as a presenter is not to have a pre-written script. Mike: I would agree. Prag: And I have tried it multiple times and almost every single time I failed because if things are not going as per the plan, which 90 percent of the time it doesn't, then the moment you get into the panic mode, the script that you remember magically disappeared and you started blanking, you started blinking, you started filling with words that is, even though it's appropriate, but it doesn't match the exact tone that you're trying to say certain things. So what I started practicing for the last decade is, "Okay, I'm going to talk about the things that I do know and I'm not going to stick with a specific script." And if I'm speaking with my co-speaker and if my co-speaker took more time, then if I don't have a script for me, I could able to shorten the version of the content that I plan to deliver. So there are a lot of flexibility and lot of freedom that you get if you do not have a script that's pre-written and you want to stick with it, which is not easy for people who doesn't have English as their native language because I'm coming from that background. But once you started practicing by delivering presentation without scripts, it's easy, it's comfortable, and you won't go into a panic mode any time. Mike: I couldn't agree more. As somebody that presents a lot and helps prepare presenters, there's definitely a point in time that a script is necessary to help you kind of vet out what the talking points are, but you're not in a play, you're not in a musical, you're not in a blockbuster movie where you have to say it word for word. And the thing that I always remind presenters when they get up on stage is, people will remember how they feel when they saw your presentation. People will remember the passion and the information better if you just speak to, what is the point you're trying to make across. And a script is definitely a step in that, you need something to kind of get your framework about it, but I think too often people do get hung up. Even English speakers, where we're native language, they get hung up on, "I have to say these exact words." Prag: Exactly. Mike: And you don't, you have to convey the meaning. What is the point of this slide? The script got you there, but in your own words, what is that slide? And that's often when the presentations, I can always tell when a presenter goes what we call off script, and generally the first time they rehearse it and they're off script, they go long because the need to over explain, it's in the back of your head and you're like, there's this little person inside that's like, "You didn't say enough. You got to keep talking. Say more words. They don't understand." Prag: Exactly. Mike: And the irony is, it's actually fewer words, but with more intention, because if you choose your words carefully, then you can really convey that meaning. So yeah, I mean, boy, and I've seen, you can also tell as an audience member, when somebody is up there and they're going through the script in their head and they're looking up and then they forgot something and they don't know what to do, and that's where rehearsal comes in. Just rehearsing for that. I always tell people, "You should rehearse in front of your family, your friends, and periodically have them unplug the computer or let something go wrong." Because it's like why sports and athletic people practice all the time, because the more you go through the motion of doing it, the more natural it is when something comes up. I've walked up on stage and had microphones fail, I've had screens go blank, and there's a moment where you're like, "Oh, I've practiced this. I'm just going to keep with the talk. I'm going to let the AV people do their thing, and if it comes back, great. And if it doesn't, then I just realized nobody can see what I saw and I'm going to have to describe it in my head." But if you're on script, you're like, "I don't know what to do because the script doesn't say that." Prag: Yep, exactly. No, I one hundred percent agree with that point, right? It's the pattern, and I think I've been told once that you should also explain in a way a ten-year-old should able to understand, so that you kind of avoid all the complex words and terminologies, to even explain a complex concept, but in a simple way. Mike: Yep, I agree with that. Prag: Yeah. Mike: Interesting, so I'm kind of curious, this is sort of Salesforce related, sort of not. But what role did AI play in getting you presentation ready? Did you lean on it to help create some scripts for you? Did you lean on it to help create some visuals for you? Prag: Oh, a combination of both, being very honest. I did use AI to generate specific graphics. I used to have to go rely on a graphic designer to do some graphics that gets aligned with Salesforce color factor, which changes every Dreamforce. So until last year, I was relying on another human who could able to do the magic and then get it plugged into my presentation, but this time it wasn't required, actually. I...
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Why Agentforce Is a Game Changer for Small Business
11/13/2025
Why Agentforce Is a Game Changer for Small Business
Today on the Salesforce Admins Podcast, we talk to Daniel Peter, Chief Technology Officer at Petaluma Creamery. Join us as we chat about how he manages cheese wheels with custom objects and how Salesforce and AI can level the playing field for SMBs. You should for the full episode, but here are a few takeaways from our conversation with Daniel Peter. Modernizing business processes at a historic creamery Daniel gave out some of the best swag at Dreamforce—free cheese samples. As a Salesforce MVP Hall of Fame member, he’s held a wide range of roles on the platform, but none have been quite as delicious as his current gig as the Chief Technology Officer at Petaluma Creamery. You could say he’s the big cheese for digital transformation. The creamery is a 115-year-old business capable of producing over 140,000 pounds of cheese per day. It’s an old-school business, and that means he inherited several old-school business processes. With so many manual processes, Daniel had to move fast and focus on the biggest wins first. Digital transformation priorities for SMBs So how did Daniel take his business processes from aged Gouda to fresh mozzarella? He started with the basics: getting the cheddar through the door. In other words, simplifying the ordering process. Like a lot of SMBs, the creamery’s system dated back to a time when you could just throw more people at a logistics problem. A sales or delivery person would talk through the order with the customer, fill out a paper form, and then do some unit conversions before they could enter the data into a database. It was time-intensive, labor-intensive, and introduced all kinds of opportunities for mistakes. Daniel quickly built an order system in Salesforce that saves time, does all of the conversions on the backend, and makes it easier for his users to find the product they’re looking for. The creamery is also able to track all sorts of data about the cheese-making process, like where ingredients come from and how they were stored, which is crucial for getting a certified-organic label. Why Agentforce levels the playing field for SMBs A common misconception is that AI tools are reserved for huge corporations with the technical resources to implement them. However, as Daniel explains, affordable tools like Agentforce actually level the playing field for SMBs. Looking forward, he’s aiming to implement several agents that will streamline the creamery’s business processes: An internal agent to take orders, so a delivery driver can talk to a customer and dictate the order over the phone. A customer service agent that can use the context of a customer’s order history to decide what remediation needs to be done and how to do it. A cheese expert agent, using the decades of unstructured data from the creamery’s cheese lab to answer questions like optimal storage temperature, or what type of rennet was used to make a particular product. If all of this sounds exciting to you, be sure to check in with Daniel at TDX to see what he’s built. And, you know, try some delicious dairy. Make sure to listen to the full episode for more from Daniel, and don’t forget to subscribe to the Salesforce Admins Podcast to catch us every Thursday. Podcast swag Learn more Admin Trailblazers Group Social Full show transcript Mike: Hold onto your curds folks. Today's episode is un-brie-lievable. We're chatting with Daniel Peter, CTO at Petaluma Creamery, where they're proving that even in a world full of mozzarella sticks and spreadsheets, Salesforce can be the big cheese. Now today, Daniel's going to dish on how he's gone from QuickBooks and paper trails to a cheddar-rific automation and including some AI agents. So if you've ever wondered what it's like to manage wheels of cheese with custom objects, or if curd record type is a thing, then this is your jam. I mean, cheese, let's melt into it. Let's get Daniel on the podcast. So Daniel, welcome to the podcast. Daniel Peter: Hey, thanks for having me. Mike: I know it's been a while since we've had you on, it was Talking Community and Twitter back when it was called Twitter. Daniel Peter: Yeah, I did look up that podcast, it was 2017. Mike: Oh man, that was a thousand years ago. Daniel Peter: Yup. Mike: For those people that aren't familiar with who Daniel Peters is, can you give us a quick update and kind of let everyone know what you do and how you got started in the ecosystem? Daniel Peter: Yeah. I got started way back in 2009 as a developer, and I've done a lot of things. I've worked for Salesforce customers, ISV Partners, did a stint at Robots and Pencils where I ran a SI Salesforce practice, done a lot of consulting work on the development side for ISV, and actually even for Salesforce. But my most recent venture here, I'm back in the customer seat. So I'm the chief technology officer here at the Petaluma Creamery, and we're having a lot of fun relaunching this place on Salesforce. So that's what I'm up to now. And I'm also a Salesforce MVP Hall of Famer. Mike: Aha. There, snuck it in just by the way, buried the lead. Daniel Peter: Yeah, I got that in. Mike: I think we met when you were at the nonprofit. Daniel Peter: I don't remember which nonprofit that was. Mike: I thought it was the Pencils one anyway. Daniel Peter: Oh, Robots and Pencils, yeah. Mike: Yeah, Robots and Pencils. Sorry. I knew there was pencils and paper. Pens and papers and [inaudible 00:02:42]. Daniel Peter: Yeah. So Robots and Pencils is a Salesforce nonprofit partner, but only on the higher ed side, not on the NGO side. And I know that whole organization has changed with Education Cloud and all of that. So yeah, that threw me off for a second. But yeah, technically we were, yeah, we were a nonprofit partner on the education side. Mike: Okay. So I know my friends are always like, every time I see customers, I'm like, oh yeah, I think that's a Salesforce customer. So now you work at a creamery, and I ran into you at Dreamforce. You were handing out cheese, which as a Midwesterner, that's exactly how you get straight to my heart is like you either hand somebody from the Midwest, a piece of meat or a piece of cheese. Daniel Peter: Yeah, I think I'm the only one with cheese swag [inaudible 00:03:35]. Mike: Yeah, I think you are. Tell me a little bit about what being the CTO at a creamery is like, and what are some of the challenges? I mean, what do you manage the curds in Salesforce? What do you do? Is there a curd record type? Daniel Peter: You know what there basically is, I mean, it sounds funny, but all that stuff is really important to track for all these different compliance reasons. If you want to be organic certified, you have to show the milk coming in, that batch that you made out of it, butter, cheese, yogurt. You have to show the ingredients that went in. And all of that really, I was at Canandy and we built a manufacturing ERP for Del Monte, and so I knew Salesforce was up to the task of tracing all the ingredients and manufacturing of food. So yeah, we do store all of that in Salesforce. Mike: So how were they doing it before you started? Daniel Peter: It was pretty fragmented. The main system we had for our kind of the closest thing to ERP was QuickBooks Desktop. And they used QuickBooks Desktop for 20 years, and it was the big manufacturing edition. He actually was doing a lot of business here. There was years when he did close to 50 million a year and all that ran through QuickBooks, and it did have some inventory capabilities, but it's pretty terrible to use. And then there was just a lot of paper-based, like the order forms were on paper. They would take inventory on paper and then put it into an Excel spreadsheet. Mike: Did you have to do your compliance stuff on paper too? Daniel Peter: Yeah, there's rooms here full of paper files. I mean, so it's kind of an old school industry, and I think a lot of the people in it, they know cows, they know how to make cheese, but technology isn't something that comes naturally to them. They're much more comfortable writing things on paper. Mike: Well, even the technology of cheese has changed too. I mean, I know where I live in Iowa, we have a creamery that's about 20 miles south of us, and it's run by Amish, and that's always a big trip because you got to head down there to get some Amish cheese and bread. Oh, the bread is amazing. Let me know when you work for a bakery, by the way. But the technology of cheese, because they have the open windows, that's changed. But ironically, I think sometimes the technology that manages the processes, or in your case maybe just the data, just gets left to pencil and paper because it's what we know. Daniel Peter: Yeah. And an interesting story here is that the pencil and paper at one point was an economical way to do things. I mean, that actually created a lot of jobs for people here. This creamery has been here for over 115 years, and back then you would just throw more people at the problem. But that's kind of the changing paradigm that we're in is the city of Petaluma has grown up around this creamery. This is a Bay Area kind of city, and property prices are through the roof, labor costs are through the roof, utilities are through the roof. You can't really exist anymore in a world where you're just throwing people at the problem. It's way too expensive and your margins will disappear quickly. Mike: Well, I mean there's really, to be realistic, there's only so much you could sell that block of cheese for. And you can't pay 15 people to live in a high dense area with all of that cost just to move paper around. If a one pound block of cheese is going to end up costing $400 just to make everybody's living wage, right? Daniel Peter: Exactly. And that's why most of the creameries have moved out of California, out of state into the lower cost of living. Yeah, that block of cheese is for commodity cheese it's kind of a race to the bottom who can make it for the lowest cost. But we're actually a little bit more of a differentiated product. So our cheese isn't competing for lowest price. We're actually competing more on quality and kind of a best cost. It's a pretty good price, but also really good quality. Mike: Yeah. So what was some of the first things you tackled to move off of pen and paper and give a little more structured process around what you're doing and integrate Salesforce? Daniel Peter: Yeah. Well, the very first thing was to stabilize just the IT here, which was get off of T-One lines if anyone knows what those are and get on fiber optic, get rid of on-premise servers. There was an exchange server, an Outlook server, a QuickBooks server. Somebody could walk by and accidentally turn it off or it might just die, and then all your systems are down. So getting good internet and getting on the cloud, that was the very first thing. But the first interesting thing we did in Salesforce was actually I wanted to make it, we need to stay alive here. We need to make money. So I wanted to make it super easy to take orders, get the cash in the door, the order to cash process. Mike: Sure. Daniel Peter: So QuickBooks was so painful. To put an order in QuickBooks, you had to actually do math either in your head or on a calculator. You had to convert, like if somebody ordered a case of cheese, you had to know, oh, those are eight ounce pieces and there's 14 in a case, so that's seven pounds. Okay, so they say one case. So we have to convert that to seven pounds in your head to put it into QuickBooks. And then you also had to do things like memorize the whole cheese hierarchy. So like C:J for Jack, M for Monterey, 8 for eight ounce. That's how you punch it into QuickBooks. And yeah, you basically had to have a computer in your head just to enter an order into the computer, and it was super painful. So we couldn't get orders into the system quickly, and we can't just... We'd have to highly train people and it's highly error-prone to put orders in and people would call on the phone or you'd get a written order, and then you'd have to convert that in QuickBooks. So I said, what we need to do is just bury QuickBooks on the backend. Let's build a really nice, basically an order entry screen in Salesforce. So we built it exactly like we want it for our business in Salesforce. So if customers want to order by the pound, by the piece, by the case, Salesforce does all the conversions, ultimately converts it back into pounds in QuickBooks, what's integrated with QuickBooks. But it lets you enter it in a very human friendly way, very nice auto complete. I mean, you can basically just start to type one letter of Y for yellow cheddar, and yellow cheddar just pops up. The orders almost right themselves now, and it's very easy to train new people how to put orders in the system. So that was a huge- Mike: Oh, that's good. Daniel Peter: Yeah. That was a huge win. Mike: Did you also stand up an external facing way to take orders too, to speed that up, or is that on the roadmap? Daniel Peter: That's still on the roadmap. We do have, so 99% of our business comes from wholesale to stores. Mike: Oh, okay. Daniel Peter: We do have a small segment of direct-to-consumer, so you can go to springhillcheese.com and order online. Right now that's just a Squarespace e-commerce website, and that works well, but we want to do some fancier things. So we might look into some Salesforce offerings. There's obviously things like Commerce Cloud, but there's also some ISVs have built some apps on Salesforce to sell. So we'll look into some of those. Right now during this relaunch and focusing on staying alive here in the short term, really wholesale is what we're focusing on. But there's a big opportunity in direct-to-consumer. We ship cheese in a kind of an insulated cooler. Believe it or not, it actually ships really well throughout the US, and a lot of people do order. That's on the roadmap, actually. But the tricky thing is the stores might not necessarily... The stores, a lot of them are still old school and the buyers still kind of want to call you. So even if we did give them a way to enter their own orders, not everybody would adopt it. Mike: Yeah, they'd still call you. Daniel Peter: Yeah, there's still a human element there that we need to preserve. But obviously you can start to dream about how AI can listen in on your conversation and create the order for you as you're talking, things like that. Mike: Quiet, AI is listening right now, Daniel, it's taking my cheese order. And I mean, that completely makes sense. You want, for a business, you want to send truckloads of cheese, not shoe boxes of cheese. Because even a consumer, somebody like me thinks they're ordering a lot of cheese. Well, compared to a grocery store or a supermarket chain that's ordering for five stores to stock 10 coolers, focusing on wholesale totally makes sense. So keeping that human element there, you can always go to the consumer, but then you're shipping probably smaller chunks of items. So you really need the volume first. Daniel Peter: Yeah. If people want to order just like a piece of cheese, they end up paying more for the shipping than the cheese costs. But we do free shipping over $100. That seems to be a good sweet spot. If people want to order, then it's like say it costs $100 worth of cheese and we pay the $30 shipping, that kind of thing. So there is a market for the direct-to-consumer when you want to purchase a little bit bigger order, it kind of makes more sense. But yeah, this place can make 140,000 pounds of cheese a day, and that's one of its- Mike: Wow. Daniel Peter: ... images we need to leverage. So yeah, definitely moving by the palette or by the semi-truck load is how we can make money here. Mike: Okay. So you said something, and we talked at Dreamforce that I think a lot of small or medium-sized businesses are faced with, which is they all, "I'm too small for AI." Like AI is really for the big players like the Fortune 500 or the Fortune 100 companies need AI. But you're just a creamery, not just, I mean, you're a small creamery out in California, and before I pressed record, I mean you were at Dreamforce, you saw all the Agentforce stuff, you saw where AI is going. What are your plans for AI? Daniel Peter: Yeah, I think the story we hear a lot is about AI replacing jobs. There's a lot of fear I guess, in the job market, both on the developer side, admin, but also basically any kind of a white collar worker that might be doing any type of work is my job going to be replaced by AI? But I think there's all these small businesses that really have a chance to have a renaissance because of AI. So instead of losing jobs, it's more like AI can enable them to save themselves, to save an industry or to save a small-medium business. We've seen, unfortunately, a lot of... Fortunately, or unfortunately, I guess there's been a lot of disruption over decades. A lot of mom and pop stores can't afford to be around because of places like Amazon. It's kind of changed the world, but Amazon's a great service too. I mean, you can get anything you want in a couple of days, so you could say it's fortunate or unfortunate. But I think people like to have some of these old school industries around. It kind of makes life more interesting to be able to go visit a historic place instead of everything just coming from a centralized factory. Yeah, I think the story for these smaller industries is, hey, you can actually compete. AI levels the playing field a bit now. You can actually afford AI, and it's pretty easy to use with tools like Salesforce. So you can actually make your business reinvent your business model, to be efficient enough to be profitable, this new paradigm. So that's the story we have here, and that's why it's exciting to me here. And so I think, yeah, small business, you need a little bit of tech talent. You might have to find, like my cousin that owns this creamery came and found me to help them out with that. You might have to find somebody to help you, but it's really easier now than it's ever been. And I think people are pretty comfortable now doing things like writing customer service emails with ChatGPT that we've achieved a certain threshold where the fear is kind of going away and the trust is starting to come into play. And so it's just a matter of, okay, well, how can I implement this now at scale for my business, to where I'm focusing on the things I'm really good at? Like my vision for the business and interacting with the customers that come in the door while AI is doing all the grunt work in the background for you, and at a pretty low cost. Mike: So you envision at your creamery using AI as kind of a scalable factor? Like you can scale one person, as opposed to how our conversation began, which is you would just throw people at it. AI kind of gives you that ability to throw people at it, except you're just throwing an agent at it, right? Daniel Peter: Yeah. It's sort of what the cloud did for computing when we needed elasticity. When you got a Black Friday and you got a million requests all at once and your server went down, and the cloud, kind of solve that. I think AI solves the people elasticity problem. Certain times you have a lot of orders coming in, and do you really want to have 10 people on staff all the time when they're mostly sitting around? But then once in a while, all 10 phones are ringing. AI can solve that pretty easily. Mike: So you saw a lot at Dreamforce. I mean, we've rolled out so many things, it's hard to remember everything, but I mean, even my team is sitting back trying to build examples for agents and prompting. As a small business. And I think it's fair to say that where are you looking at deploying, or hey, this could be a good use case for Agentforce, or really thinking about how we can scale there. Daniel Peter: Yeah, we've got a few...
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Salesforce Security Made Simple with Invisibles, Configurables, Enhanceables
11/06/2025
Salesforce Security Made Simple with Invisibles, Configurables, Enhanceables
Today on the Salesforce Admins Podcast, we talk to Laura Pelkey, Director of Customer Security Communications & Engagement, and Kylie McKlveen, Director of Product Marketing at Salesforce. Join us as we chat about a simple framework for thinking about security in Salesforce and what you can do to protect your org. You should for the full episode, but here are a few takeaways from our conversation with Laura Pelkey and Kylie McKlveen. The evolving security landscape in the age of AI With Agentforce and the rise of AI, protecting your data is more important than ever before. Remember, the bad guys have access to these tools too, and that means phishing and deep fake attacks are becoming more sophisticated by the day. That’s why I wanted to bring Laura and Kylie on the pod to talk about security. They’re here to help explain how Salesforce is already hard at work to help you protect your data, and what simple steps you can take to beef up security for your org. A simple Salesforce security framework Laura and Kylie have a simple framework for the security available to you on Salesforce. There are three layers to think about: Invisibles: The things that Salesforce already does to watch your back. This includes a global, 24/7 threat hunting team that is constantly scanning the network for anomalous events. Configurables: These are actions you as a Salesforce Admin can take to make your org more secure. Taking the time to configure your security settings and think through your permission sets can go a long way towards protecting your org. Enhanceables: If you work in a heavily regulated industry or have sensitive data, you may need to take extra steps to enhance your security. Tools like Salesforce Shield and Security Center can give you an extra layer of protection. Most admins will want to focus on the configurables, and the security team has put together a handy video series to walk you through your next steps. The importance of data continuity One important piece of the security puzzle is continuity. Protecting against attacks is important, but you also need to account for human error—sometimes users make mistakes. If someone’s delete key gets stuck, tools like Backup & Restore and Field Audit Trail can help you save the day. If you want to learn more, be sure to check out the Dreamforce Security Keynote on Salesforce+. And don’t forget to subscribe to the Salesforce Admins Podcast so you never miss an episode. Podcast swag Learn more Security Keynote: The 360 Blog: YouTube series: Admin Trailblazers Group Social Full show transcript Mike: This week on the Salesforce Admins Podcast, we're diving into some security framework that you've either seen online or at Dreamforce, specifically wrapping your head around invisibles, configurables, and enhanceables. So this week I am joined by longtime podcaster and security champion Laura Pelkey and new voice and new to the Salesforce Trusted Services Team, Kylie McKlveen. They are both here to help us unpack how we can think about the security layers baked into the platform, the settings they control, and the tools available for us to go even further. Plus we also jump into a little bit about what AI means for keeping your org secure. This is a fun podcast, and we also bring in a little bit of pop culture. I won't ruin it, but Sylvester Stallone does make an appearance in this episode. So with that, let's get Laura and Kylie on the podcast. So Kylie and Laura, welcome to the podcast. Laura Pelkey: Hey, Mike. Kylie McKlveen: Hey, thanks for having us. Mike: I know. This is going to be fun, even though... Well Laura's a long time podcaster, so she makes security fun, but Kylie's a new voice. So Laura, let's start with you. Refresh everybody, what you've been up to at Salesforce since we've last chatted. Laura Pelkey: Yeah, I know it's been a little while. I'm very happy to be back on the pod. Thank you for having me. So I'm actually coming up on my nine-year anniversary at Salesforce, which is crazy. Can't believe it's been that long. And lately I've been at Dreamforce speaking, writing a lot of blogs about security, and still just trying to get the word out there to our customers about how to be secure with their Salesforce data. Mike: Yep, absolutely. And Kylie, you're a new voice to the podcast, so welcome. Tell us a little bit about how you got started at Salesforce and what you do. Kylie McKlveen: Thanks, yeah, what do they say, long time listener, first time caller? So yeah, I work on our product marketing team for our trusted services products. I've actually just joined this team within the last year when Salesforce acquired Own or formerly Own Backups. So loving my new role and really excited to work with Laura and yourself working with customers on helping them with their security. Mike: Now, trusted services sounds big and massive and like a lot of stuff. What are some of the products that maybe Salesforce admins are familiar with that fall under that umbrella? Kylie McKlveen: Yeah, that's a great question. So Shield, Salesforce Shield, which consists of event monitoring, data detect, platform encryption, and field audit trail. It's also security center. And then with the acquisition of Own, we also added backup and recover, archive, data mask and seed, so that was enhanced with seeding capabilities. We also have privacy center. So those are some of the products admins would be familiar with. Mike: Yeah, no, I think we saw a few of those in the admin keynote. So Laura, you're still on the mission and I'm with you on security-minded admins. Laura Pelkey: Yes. Mike: Let's talk about what being a security-minded admin is to get us in that security mode. Laura Pelkey: Yeah. You know Mike, I was actually just thinking about this. I think we did a podcast with that name, and I think two months after I started at Salesforce, we did a podcast together, which is- Mike: I mean, we don't mess around. Lynn was like, "We're doing a podcast right away." Laura Pelkey: Yeah, yeah, the security-minded admins, love that topic. So a security-minded admin is just someone who understands that securing their data in Salesforce and their organization's data in Salesforce is an admin's responsibility. Admins have many responsibilities. There's really not enough time in the day to do all of the stuff that an admin needs to do. But security is one of the most important ones. And it's often one of the most overlooked ones. So yeah, really, really passionate about that topic, and I feel my role is to help admins focus on the top things that they can do. Because there's a lot of stuff that can be kind of confusing, but really if you're doing a handful of things, best practices, using the right controls, you're doing most of what you can to protect your organization. Mike: Yeah. Now I know Laura, at Dreamforce, you gave a presentation that took that security-minded admin up a notch because, I mean, pre-AI, we were just talking about making sure people didn't put sticky notes on monitors and strong passwords. Oh, we got MFA. Remember, MFA was like... That was going to save the world. And now we have AI, which I saw your presentation in Dreamforce. What is security like now in the world of AI? Laura Pelkey: And first of all, MFA is still very important, so definitely still do that. Mike: Right, absolutely. It still saves the world, it just there's more to it. Laura Pelkey: Still saves the world. There's just more more things now. Yeah, we're seeing a huge rise in adoption of AI. I mean, look at how many people listening to this call use LLMs like ChatGPT on a regular basis. I mean, I know I do. Of course, Agentforce, we all love Agentforce. There's a lot of amazing AI technology out there now. But unfortunately what we're seeing is the attackers or hackers, bad guys, whatever you want to call them, are also leveraging this technology, and they're doing so in ways that make it harder to spot when malware is happening. They might be creating a deepfake, that's kind of advanced, but it's actually... It's pretty easy to do nowadays, in order to get your user credentials and to take over your user account. It could even just be maybe a really well phrased phishing text message. I think we all probably get those too nowadays, it's super common. And before it would be kind of easy to spot them. There might be some spelling errors or just language related errors that would be easy to guess that maybe this isn't really from somebody that I know, but nowadays with AI, it's actually... The AI can craft these messages that sound much more realistic and believable. So that's had an effect on how successful bad actors are when they're trying to take over a user account or get user credentials or get sensitive information and data. Mike: I mean, the good news is a lot of people have access to AI, and unfortunately sometimes the people you want access to shouldn't. It also burst my bubble, so it means you're telling me that Bob Ross video of him wrestling Mr. Rogers wasn't real that I just watched the other day? Laura Pelkey: Yeah, yeah, probably not. Mike: Because it was awesome. Laura Pelkey: Probably not. Just logistically, I think that would be pretty difficult. But we are seeing... If anyone watched the security keynote, we shared a really interesting video, it's on Salesforce+ now, of one of our executives, we said, "Hey, can we have a professional ethical hacker demonstrate how easy it is to hack somebody at your level? Can we do this live?" And he was like, "Yeah." So there's actually a really cool video of that in the security keynote. Mike: Ooh, I'll put a link to that in the show notes so you can watch that. Laura Pelkey: Oh, thank you, we would love that. Kylie and I would really appreciate that. Mike: Yeah, no, absolutely. Well, and speaking of videos, Kylie, I think you worked with Laura. You put out a whole series of videos around security, talking about invisibles, configurables, and what was the third one? It's always the third. It's like Snap, Crackle... Who's that third one? Pop. Laura Pelkey: The third child, I forget as well. Mike: I heard there was actually four at one time. You should Google that. The Snap, Crackle, Pop, there was four. Totally not on topic of talking security, but you know... So Kylie, let's talk about that. I mean, it's an interesting concept to think about. There's invisible things that Salesforce does, there's configurable things, and then there's things that I guess we can put frosting on, right? Kylie McKlveen: Yeah, the pop. I think this framework is just a really easy way to understand the security that's available to you. The invisibles are the things that we do, that Salesforce does kind of invisible to you, hence the name. The configurables things customers can do to make their org more secure, but it's up to them to configure them. And then the enhanceables, so things they can go above and beyond what's provided to them to really enhance their security. So the names are a bit obvious by design. Mike: So tell me a little bit about some of the invisible stuff that goes on behind the scenes that helps admins sleep at night. Kylie McKlveen: Yeah, I hope admins are familiar with things like network level security, our secure infrastructure, application level security, things like that. Those are really table stakes for SaaS platforms. But there's a lot of really cool things that our cybersecurity operations center does proactively protecting our customers. And I'm actually going to throw it over to Laura to give some of those examples. I know we've had multiple conversations about some of the examples of the things they do and it's really cool. Laura Pelkey: Yeah, so our team, our cybersecurity operations center team, they are incredible. Actually, when I started working in cybersecurity, which I've always worked in cybersecurity, my very first job, which I won't say how many years ago that was anymore- Mike: Well two, because you're 27, right? Laura Pelkey: Exactly, exactly, correct. But when I first started working in security, I was learning about all of the really cool things that my company at the time, we had a social engineering team, and the things that other companies would hire us to do, and they would literally go into companies and attempt to hack them by physically gaining access to a structure, their networks in their building. And this was part of something that our clients would pay for. It was so cool to me. And basically it would just reveal where the holes were in their security so that the client could then fix those. So things like that, that's called social engineering. So at Salesforce we do things like that, we're constantly hunting for vulnerabilities in the platform, in our networks, we call that threat hunting. We have a global team that is working 24 7, literally just scanning all the networks for anomalies we call them, anomalous events. Does something look weird in one of our networks? Does something look weird in one of our customer's networks? And then we have a massive team of people who, as soon as they spot something, they jump on it. And if it's a customer issue, they'll contact the customer right away and actually work with them to resolve it. I don't know, it reminded me when I was first learning about this many years ago, it just was very cool work and it's always behind the scenes and you don't know that it's going on, but it actually does so much to shore up the security of your organization. So we do stuff like that. Mike: No, that sounds really cool. When you were mentioning that, I was thinking of... I think it's like an early 2000s B-level Sylvester Stallone movie where he's like a guy that gets paid to break out a prisons to find their vulnerability. Laura Pelkey: Yes, it's exactly like that, yes. Mike: That's what I was thinking of. So that's how I envision your whole team is. Laura Pelkey: I would actually love to do that kind of work. No one has asked me to, but if anyone at Salesforce is listening, I'm open to doing that, that sounds fun. Mike: Okay, all right, look at that. Laura, while we have you, can we... I mean the invisible stuff's really cool, but it's behind the scenes. Admins love to get their hands on stuff. Let's talk about what we can configure. Laura Pelkey: So as Kylie was saying, the second piece or second pillar of this are the configurables. And the configurables are... The easiest way to think of it is the things that are within the customer's control. So this is security settings, controls, and features that actually need to be set up properly by the customer. And Salesforce is a very robust platform, and we do provide a level of flexibility to make sure that our customer's needs are being met, but it's also part of our shared responsibility model where when a customer has control over these things, that they really spend the time to properly configure them to best protect their data. A couple of examples. The principle of least privilege. It's not a setting, but it's a principle that in cyber security is the defining principle for when you're talking about user permissions. So admins set up users all the time. Every day, maybe. So when an admin is setting up a user, it's really important that they're paying attention to the permission sets and the level of permissions that they're granting to this user. So we still say layering permission sets and permission set groups on top of profiles is the best practice, and when you are setting up a user, make sure that the permissions you're granting them are only what's necessary for them to do their job. So that's that that least privilege part. And by limiting them to only what's necessary, it actually helps limit the exposure if in... Hopefully this doesn't happen, but in the chance that a user account is compromised. And especially when we're looking at people who have admin level permissions, and what are those, Mike? Modify all data, view all data. Mike: Everything's scary. Laura Pelkey: Yes. So those are incredibly powerful permissions, and admins know they can do everything in their Salesforce org. But would you give, for example, okay, say like a Salesforce admin is the owner of a house. Let's just create that metaphor. Would you give all of your keys to your mail carrier? Why would they need access to the inside of your house? Maybe they need access to the gate for the pathway that walks to your front door, so you leave that unlocked for them, but they don't need to get inside your house. It's kind of like the same thing when you're setting up users. You don't want all of your users to be able to do every single thing in your Salesforce org. And again, it's because users make mistakes so they could accidentally and unintentionally do something that could cause a security issue. That happens all the time, or in the off chance that a user is compromised, you don't want the bad actor that has compromised and taken over that user account to be able to do all the things that an admin does. So yes, very long spiel about principle of least privilege and why it's important, but basically the configurable part of this is setting up users and making sure that they only have the level of permissions that they need. Mike: And to run with your metaphor, Laura, I think even the delivery companies now, I have a code from my garage door and you can drop a package off in my garage door. So in theory, you're only getting into my garage unless I forget to lock the door to my house from my garage. Now you have access to the whole house. And that plays into the same... They should only have access to the things they should have access to. Laura Pelkey: Yeah, exactly. Mike: Laura, I think this falls into maybe a product that you oversee, which is Security Center. Laura Pelkey: I don't oversee it, I wish I did. Mike: Or Kylie, sorry. Laura Pelkey: It's an amazing... Yes, Kylie's team does that. And you can actually, with Security Center, see the number of people exactly who in your organization has admin-level permissions? Kylie, correct me if I'm wrong, but I think in Security Center you can actually change those permissions within Security Center itself or apply policies across all of your orgs within Security Center to limit that, is that correct? Kylie McKlveen: That's correct. Absolutely, you can apply policies. And I think especially for admins who have multiple orgs that they're managing, being able to view their security posture across and then have a sense of consistency and control, Security Center is a great product for that. Laura Pelkey: Yeah, we love that product. Mike: Yeah, and we saw a lot of this in the admin keynote where Kate and Lisa did a demo of Lisa just needing additional permissions to edit a field, not the entire object. And I think what was nice is we saw Agentforce double-checking with the admin to say, "I've set this up, but is this correct?" Which is a huge step, the human in the loop for a lot of security and AI things that we work on. Laura Pelkey: Yes, it's so important that you're working with... And now that Security Center is enhanced with Agentforce, it's like admins have kind of a partner, but still the admin's responsibility to validate everything and to oversee everything. But it's now easier to do that, which is great. Mike: Great. Especially when it goes GA. I think admins will be excited for the new setup. Kylie, Laura set you up perfectly. She mentioned enhanceables. Let's talk about some of those security enhanceables that admins can get their hands on or help set up that take security even farther. Kylie McKlveen: As we talked about earlier, we have Shield and Security Center. These are the products that fall within the trusted services portfolio. Is that what you were asking, Mike? Mike: Yeah, just I would love to learn more about what we consider...
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Building Salesforce Projects to Land Your Next Role
10/30/2025
Building Salesforce Projects to Land Your Next Role
Today on the Salesforce Admins Podcast, we talk to Bradley Condon, Technology and Systems Specialist at Waste Solution Services. Join us as we chat about his Dreamforce presentation and the custom apps Bradley built to help him land his next role. You should for the full episode, but here are a few takeaways from our conversation with Bradley Condon. From customer service rep to the Dreamforce stage This year was the first Dreamforce Bradley was able to attend, and also his first time giving a presentation—I’d say he’s off to a great start. Bradley started his career as a Service Cloud user who got curious about the platform. He clicked on the Help Section, ended up on Trailhead, “and by the end of the day, I knew what I wanted to do with the rest of my life,” he says. However, when he started looking for jobs, he ran into a common problem. How can you show that you have hands-on experience without landing that crucial first Salesforce role? Using personal projects to stand out Bradley decided that the best approach was to build custom apps in Salesforce and reference them on his resume. But what to build? As he explains, “I realized that in order for me to make time for it, I needed to build something I was passionate about that I wanted to use.” One thing he was definitely focused on was passing his Admin Certification exam. So he made an app to help him study by texting him a practice question every day. He also wanted to attend more Salesforce events, which led to another app that helped match Trailblazers with each other to save on accommodations. Bradley listed all of his personal projects on his resume and also shared them on Experience Cloud so interviewers could see his solutions in action. How to pick a side project In the course of building (and debugging) these projects, Bradley was able to learn by experience. By the time he was finished, he was able to sit for the Platform App Builder Certification without needing to study and pass it with flying colors. As for what to work on, Bradley encourages you to work with what you know. Can you think of an app that would help you in your day-to-day? Or, if you’re interviewing in a specific industry, something that would solve a common problem they might face? We want to hear about your side projects, so tell us about them on our socials. And don’t forget to subscribe to the Salesforce Admins Podcast to catch us in your feed every Thursday. Podcast swag Learn more Automate This!: Admin Trailblazers Group Social Full show transcript Mike: Welcome to Salesforce Admins Podcast. This week I'm chatting with Bradley Condon, a first-time Dreamforce presenter who has a powerful story about self-starting service cloud and personal projects that pack a punch. Now, Bradley shared this at Dreamforce about how building custom apps on the side helped him land a role and prep for certifications, and it was even something really cool he could do for a friend in a tough time. Now, Bradley's journey starts from a call center agent, all the way to creating experience cloud solutions that he could share with future employers when he was interviewing. So if you're curious about why you should do Salesforce projects on the side and do personal projects, Bradley's story is for you. So let's get Bradley on the podcast. So Bradley, welcome to the podcast. Bradley Condon: Hi. Thank you so much for having me. Mike: Yeah, well, it's exciting, you are a first-time presenter, as I learned before we pressed record, at Dreamforce, and you're going to talk about building personal projects, which I've done quite a few on the side, and I think that's really cool. I can't wait to see your presentation, but let's learn a little bit about you. Tell me how you got started in the Salesforce ecosystem and what you do. Bradley Condon: Yeah, of course. So I got started in the ecosystem as actually a call center agent using Service Cloud, working for a furniture company, just handling warranty issues and whatnot. And I got really interested in it and wanted to learn more about it, so I clicked on the Help section and ended up on Trailhead, and by the end of the day I was like, "You know what? I know what I want to do with the rest of my life," and started to make the transition to learn all I could about Salesforce and eventually, got my certification, landed a role, and then after that role, I had some time in between that I was trying to find the next one, and that's when I started building personal projects to really fill in that gap that I had to get my next role. Mike: Wow, okay. I think you might be the first person that started off in Service Cloud. Bradley Condon: Yeah, really? Mike: Yeah. A lot of admins I know, I'm not saying nobody, but admins I know always start off in sales, and you were in Service Cloud, so that was really cool. You had to have been just a dream. I'm just sitting here back thinking of what that admin must've been like when you were like, "Hey, I clicked on Help and I'm starting to do some Trailhead modules." I would've looked over and been like, "Bradley, I'm going to buy you lunch right now," because- Bradley Condon: Yeah, we didn't have an admin. Mike: Oh, okay. Oh, you just burst my bubble. That's all right. Well, you probably became the admin then, defunct. I started off doing because when you get excited with Salesforce stuff, you're probably like me, and I was doing a whole bunch of things. I was like, "Oh, I could probably track that in Salesforce. Oh, I could probably track that in Salesforce." I think I had three or four dev orgs that all had different things in it. Personal projects, you know you're doing Trailhead stuff, you're working. First of all, how did you just find time to do extra projects on the side? Bradley Condon: Well, so it all started when I was looking for another role and I was having trouble really getting my foot in the door for interviews, and I think it's because I was just looking like everyone else on paper. And I thought, "Okay, I need a different strategy. I need to do something that's going to help me standout." And that's when I decided, "You know what? I'm going to just start building, and that way, I have something to showcase during your interviews." Mike: I like that. Did, as you were interviewing, change and modify the org? I'm assuming you shared credentials with your Mike. Bradley Condon: Well, so I actually would make it so that it was available on Experience Cloud- Mike: Ooh. Bradley Condon: So that way, it also showed experience in cloud skills and made it available for them to use and made the flows available. So not only could they just see what I worked on, but they could actually play with it themselves. Mike: Wow, okay. That's next level. I like that. How did you decide what to build? Bradley Condon: So the first thing that I built was, I was studying for Salesforce certification and I needed to figure out a way to be more consistent with my study schedule. So I started to build an app that would send me a text message every day with a practice question to help study. Mike: Wow, okay. That's a really cool, that's a neat idea. I'm over here thinking, how am I tracking, I was into binge-watching shows. You're sending yourself text messages, we're totally on different planets right now. That's awesome. So as you were sitting, as you were working through different Trailhead modules, also try to build other stuff in some of that project org as you'd go through different Trailhead modules? Bradley Condon: Oh yeah, there was plenty of times where I'd be in a Trailhead module and I'm thinking, "Well, why don't they add this feature that we learned in this other module?" Well, obviously because you're not always going to be doing them in a certain order, and that's the one thing with Trailhead is there's so much to learn, you just kind of hop around and go with your interest. Mike: Yeah. Bradley Condon: But I've definitely seen times where I was like, "Okay, I've had to have this here," like this would be so perfect. Mike: Now I can only imagine going from being an end user in Service Cloud to building something, had to feel very different. What was some of the ways that you promoted yourself when you were interviewing to show people, "Hey, I also have this org that you can try out." You have to get past that initial screening process. Bradley Condon: Yeah, so the thing that I would also do is I would make sure that I included my portfolio site on my resume and also in the experience section, I would include those personal projects as part of my experience because that's something that I was working on almost full time for a while, that I just really dedicated myself to creating that project. Mike: Yeah, wow. I know when I first took the admin certification 18 years ago or 17, something like that, it was a long time ago, I had had a lot of hands-on building things in an org, trying stuff out before I actually took the certification. How did working in your developer environment or just building out sample apps give you that confidence for trying your certification? Bradley Condon: Yeah, that's a great question because most recent certification I took was the platform app builder certification, and I sat for that exam without studying at all. It all just had to do with what I learned doing on projects. So the one I've been working on recently is I'm building an app to match trailblazers who want to attend Salesforce events with one another to cut the cost of accommodations down. And so while I was building that, I learned a lot of concepts that were tested, so that really helped, especially with data modeling and stuff like that. Mike: Yeah, wow. I've seen quite a few of those. I think that's really cool. Let's talk about, so one of the things that I like about Trailhead is you're in, you've got the module, you have an org to try and build something out, and basically as long as you copy-and-paste everything, it should work, right? There's a few times you have to think through things, but when you're actually in a developer environment and you're building something that's your own idea, there's been multiple times that I've had flows not work or something just didn't fire off like I thought it would, how did that, kind of having your own space to try something out and fail help you understand more? Bradley Condon: Oh yeah, definitely 'cause that's the thing when you fail and you have that error message that you're trying to figure out what it is, that's probably when most of the learning happens, is when you don't do it correctly the first time and you really have to research and get down to the nitty-gritty and act like a detective pretty much. Mike: Yeah. There's multiple times when you sit there and you hit that error message and you're like, "Ah, I just need, please just work this time," and you're five times into it and it's like midnight and you're like, "I'm going to get this flow to work before I go to bed," the number of times I've said that. When you were working through, how did you think of stuff that you wanted to build? I think it's pretty easy to sit down and be like, "Oh, I'm going to create a custom object in these five fields," but it's another thing to think of, "I'm going to create this big app that's maybe going to take me a week or two weeks to build." How did you work that out and plan that time in your head? Bradley Condon: Yeah, so pretty much in order for me to make time for it and to really put the effort in and not to just stop building it was that I wanted to build something that I was passionate about and that I myself would use because that's going to show in the final product. If you're passionate about it, it'll show. It'll show in the user experience. It'll show in how you thought about it to be scalable 'cause you're going to want to continue to use it. So that's definitely how I did it. Mike: So this makes a kind of meta question. Did you build an app to manage your orgs or your apps that you were building and your interviews when you were doing this? Bradley Condon: No, I did not because I've seen so many of those and to me, that's not something I would use personally. Mike: Okay. Okay. Can I needle you on what was something you built that you did use, besides the text message thing? Bradley Condon: It was mainly the text message thing, but I also used it just to, so I had someone who had their mother pass away and they were really close to the mother and so as a gift for them, what I did is I had it so that it would send them different memories that they had with their mom every week, and then they could add little things about thinking-of-you messages to her. So that's something that I created that they used. Mike: Wow. I never would've thought enterprise software to be used as that way. That's kind of interesting. What gave you that idea? Bradley Condon: They were just going through a tough time, so I really wanted to do something that at the time, I didn't have that much money. So I had to do something that I could kind of make, and I'm like, you know what, I'm great at making apps. Mike: Right. Yeah, no, I mean that's super creative, that's super creative. I love that. As somebody that's gone through, built a lot of things, did you often have an idea to build something and then go and use Trailhead to learn the skill or did you try to do it in parallel or did you try to build it first and then go back to Trailhead? What was your thought process there? Bradley Condon: Yeah. So it would usually come up that I'd want to add a feature, like if I wanted to do something where I wanted to add commerce and I wanted to figure out, "Okay, well, how would I take payments if I did actually take payments?" And I had never done anything like that in my other position, so I had to go to Trailhead in order to find out how to do that. But there's also been times where I've been in Trailhead of thinking, "Oh, well, now I kind of want to add this to my app. I hadn't thought about this before." Mike: Yeah. Yep, absolutely. Take payments, I never would've thought of that. So as somebody that, I mean obviously people are going to listen to this and think, "Wow, I want to do the same." If people are looking for ideas to get started on, "I want to build out an org, maybe I'm going to look for another job, maybe I'm not, but I kind of want to test my skill," what is an idea or something they should think about in terms of building their first project? Bradley Condon: So I think a good thing to do is look at the roles you're trying to apply for and if there's a specific industry, create a project that's specific to the industry. If you're into the hospitality industry, maybe you create an app that helps with hotel room bookings, or if say maybe you find out there's a job you're applying for and they have room service, but they don't have a way to order it online, create an experience cloud site that allows people to start ordering their room service online. So you can present that in the interview. It's something that they're missing and something you could deliver. Mike: Yeah. And I've heard that in previous podcasts too, definitely start in the industry that you're in. Tell me about how the Trailblazer community helped you in building different projects or different ideas that you had. Bradley Condon: Oh, yeah. So I'm part of the Serviceblazer community, and that group has been so helpful to me. Obviously coming from Service Cloud, I gravitated to that community, but they've been really helpful. Anytime that you post anything on there, like Ask a Serviceblazer, you'll get a response usually within the next 10, 15 minutes, and everyone there is extremely knowledgeable. The amount of knowledge that comes through that channel is crazy. Mike: Yeah. Do you find, because you were in the service industry, that a lot of your apps start in Service Cloud? Bradley Condon: Yeah. And even if they don't start in Service Cloud, somehow I'll manage a way to add it into it. Mike: Yeah, I can see that. Bradley Condon: For the text message service, I used Email-to-Case to send text messages, I'd used e-mail-to-text gateways so that you send an e-mail to, e-mail that's dedicated to your phone number to get the text message to them. So even though it was not using the texting service, I used the Email-to-Case to make it [inaudible 00:15:14]. Mike: In some aspects, the limitations on those orgs actually force you to be more creative. Bradley Condon: Exactly. Mike: I didn't even think about that. It's always easy, like, "Oh, please turn this on." That's what we have at Salesforce. Just go to another PM, turn this on for me really quick and you don't think of if you actually had those limitations in place, how would you get more creative. I'm curious, so as you've done this and done different projects, have you helped anybody build projects or ideas that they've had of their own? Bradley Condon: I haven't really helped anyone build their own personal project. On the Serviceblazer community, I answer a lot of questions when it comes to people that are facing problems they're coming up with in their company that they need help with. But the funny thing is I usually end up going to a developer org and making sure that I try it out myself before I give them the answer. So I always make sure that I'm trying it and make sure that it's going to be accurate information I'm giving them. Mike: Yeah. Nope, I'm the same way. You cannot, in theory this should work, but let me log in and double-check that something hasn't changed or something is different. Is this your first Dreamforce? Bradley Condon: It is my first Dreamforce and it's also my first Salesforce event ever. I've never been to a community conference and never been to a Salesforce event, so I'm really excited. Mike: Wow. So you're just jumping in the deep end right away? Holy cow. Bradley Condon: Pretty much, yeah, pretty much. I'm a little nervous, but we'll see. Mike: It'll be fine. By the time you listen to this podcast, you'll be like, "Phew, what was I nervous for? I was awesome up there on stage. They loved me." So off the cuff question, when you present at Dreamforce, people always have questions. What's the one question you're afraid somebody's going to ask you? Bradley Condon: Oh, wow. Can you make it an agent? Mike: Well, by the end of Dreamforce, you'll know how to build plenty of agents. Bradley Condon: Yes. I'm really excited for that. My company wants to do a lot of stuff with Agentforce, so I'm really looking forward to that aspect. Mike: Yeah, and then you'll be able to come back and be like, "Well, here, let me just have you log into this," and you can build a Bradley agent of your own. Bradley Condon: Exactly. Mike: That's the plan. Thanks for coming on the podcast and telling us about this. I think it's a really cool idea. I hope people do it on their own. I know it feels like you're pressed for time. And when I was a Salesforce administrator, weekends and nights were the time that I would build stuff. I didn't have Trailhead. Back in my day, it was just the little Help box. But I think getting out of just that business world of accounts and contacts and contracts and building something fun, I remember going to user groups and having friends tell me about diaper changing apps, and I think one person talked about how they managed their wedding in Salesforce. That to me is just like, it gets you in and it gets you doing things that make you feel super empowered. So I think everybody should build on their own free time. Bradley Condon: Yes, it's a great skillset to have. Mike: Well, I look forward to seeing your presentation at Dreamforce, and I appreciate you coming on the podcast, Bradley. Bradley Condon: Yeah. Thank you so much for having me. Mike: Big thanks to Bradley for joining us and sharing such...
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How Do I Transition Into a Salesforce Admin Career?
10/23/2025
How Do I Transition Into a Salesforce Admin Career?
Today on the Salesforce Admins Podcast, we talk to David Simpson, Salesforce Administrator at the 1916 Company. Join us as we chat about how he landed his first Salesforce Admin role and what advice he has for folks who are new to the ecosystem. You should for the full episode, but here are a few takeaways from our conversation with David Simpson. A career pivot from finance to Salesforce If you didn’t catch David’s presentation about resolving Flow errors at Dreamforce, be sure to check out our earlier episode with him. Another thing that came up was his career pivot, and it was so interesting that I had to bring him back to talk about it. David started out as an accountant before eventually becoming a financial systems analyst. He had to run a lot of reports and quickly discovered that the thing he was actually interested in was the Salesforce platform. Soon enough, David became the part-time admin for his organization, but he quickly realized that if he wanted to just focus on Salesforce, he would need to find a new job. What to look for in a job description While David bulked up his credentials, he started looking for full-time Salesforce Admin roles to apply to. One piece of advice he has is to take a closer look at the job description and be clear about what you want. “It's not uncommon now for admins to have developer skills or maybe dip their toe into the architect side of things,” he says, “but I focused mainly on positions that were only looking for admin-related work.” David also was really specific about finding an organization that was already committed to Salesforce. He looked for green flags like job postings with specifics on certifications or Superbadges. Finally, it was important to him to join a Salesforce team as opposed to try to cut his teeth as a solo admin. Find opportunities to grow as an admin David’s advice for people new to the ecosystem is to get curious. Back when he was a part-time admin, he was laser-focused on opportunities because that was what his organization was asking him to do. “I should have given myself the benefit of the doubt,” he says, “and taken a little bit more risk in learning new things.” Reflecting now, he sees where he could have taken the initiative to try automations or enhance integrations and become a better admin in the process. There are a lot more great tips from David about his pivot into a Salesforce Admin career, so be sure to listen to the full episode. And don’t forget to subscribe to the Salesforce Admins Podcast to catch us every Thursday. Podcast swag Learn more Salesforce Admins Podcast Episode: Admin Trailblazers Group Social Full show transcript Mike: Welcome to Salesforce Admins podcast. This week I'm joined by David Simpson, who you might remember from our pre-Dreamforce chat not that long ago. It was a little over a month ago, but this time we're diving into something that really hits close to home for a lot of Salesforce admins, and that is career change. The number one question I get in my inbox is how do I find a different career? What does it look like to interview as a first time Salesforce admin and questions like that? I'm telling you, we're going to dive into all of that with David because he's going to share how he went from spreadsheets as a staff accountant to automations as a Salesforce admin and what his transition looked like. We get into certifications. We talk about job hunting. We talk about imposter syndrome, and I dig into what it looked like to be a brand new Salesforce admin on his first day at a new job. I think this might be the most comprehensive podcast interview about what it looks like to change careers that I've done since I've launched this show. If you're curious about how David did it, this is the episode for you. Give it a listen and let's get David on the podcast. So, David, welcome back to the podcast. David Simpson: Thank you for having me back. Mike: It wasn't that long ago that we were talking, it was pre-Dreamforce about 45 days ago or so. I had you on the podcast to talk about the presentation you're giving at Dreamforce, and we've since wrapped up Dreamforce now and people are at home. Well, some people. I think some people stayed and probably went to Napa Valley and did wine tastings, which I wouldn't blame you. There's a lot of great vineyards and stuff out there. But one thing you brought up that I wanted to follow up on was your career trajectory, and we haven't talked about careers a whole lot, but let's just rewind a little bit and give one of those the last time on the Salesforce Admin podcast, because I've watched a lot of streaming things. Let's fill people in on what you do and where your career started and how you became a Salesforce admin. David Simpson: Sure. Previously on Salesforce Admins. Mike: Exactly. David Simpson: So, many years ago, I went to college for accounting, and my first job out of college was a staff accountant at a software company. After a few years of working in spreadsheets and doing the monotonous day-to-day that comes with being a staff accountant, I made a pivot to be a financial analyst, more specifically a financial systems analyst, and after I made that pivot, my supervisor at the time, he informed me that he was the administrator for our company's Salesforce instance, and that a lot of the work that I was doing, which was doing financial analytics for our professional service team, a lot of that data came out of Salesforce. Our professional service team would put opportunities into Salesforce, and we needed to make sure that those financials were clean. So, he suggested that I become another admin with the company, and that I would learn about the general inner workings of Salesforce and be a point of contact for cleaning up that data, for troubleshooting issues and just all the things that come with being a junior level admin. So, he gave me a system administrator license. He recommended that I go into Trailhead to just learn the basics of being a Salesforce admin, the Salesforce ecosystem, custom objects. All those general items that you learn as an admin, and then I just kind of fell in love with it. It was such an interesting pivot from doing spreadsheets and reconciliations. I was able to kind of do problem solving and be an environment that I wasn't too familiar in, but I was also able to see how Salesforce works and how we can get this data to be reportable data. So, the automation behind it or validation rules, just even something simple like setting up a page layout. It was all very interesting and new to me, so I just latched onto it a hundred percent, and then I further got sold on the whole experience after about a year or so, being a Salesforce admin, I went to my first Dreamforce in 2018 and I got my Salesforce administrator certification, and at that point, that kind of signaled to me that this is what I want to do full time. So, from that point on, it's all history. I went and unfortunately, the company I was with didn't have the resources for a full-time admin, so I did go to another company, but since then I have been an awesome admin just doing it every day. Custom objects, flows, you name it, admin work-wise, I do it. Mike: And I think career changes are hard. I went from sales to becoming an admin as well, and I think everybody kind of looks at like, well, what do I have to do? Or where do I have to go? Or what skills are required? And I think you, like me, kind of got fortunate you were with a company that was like, "Hey, we need these skills." And I'm assuming you probably did both jobs for a while, right? David Simpson: Yes. I was doing both jobs up until I left the company. It was essentially 50/50 financial systems analysis and then admin work. Mike: So, it's not like you just all of a sudden jumped in the pilot seat and took over the plane and away you go. David Simpson: Thankfully, that wasn't the case for me. I was able to kind ease myself into the admin role because I still had work to do on the financial side. Mike: Yeah. And I think that that works out as an incredibly lucky path. David Simpson: Yeah, definitely. Mike: One thing, so you mentioned they didn't have the budget for a full-time admin, which is the role you wanted to pursue. Did you consider just staying at that current position and kind of dividing your time, or was this something where you were like, "No, I really, this is, I'm going to commit?" David Simpson: It was something that I really wanted to commit on. In the beginning when I had first gotten a system administrator license and started doing basic admin work, I was completely on board with splitting my time between the two. I wasn't super confident in what I was doing as a Salesforce admin. I was still learning the ropes, but after I had gotten my first certification, that kind of sold it to me and locked in that this is what I want to do as a career. So, at that point, I did bring up my interest in being a full-time admin to the company, and they said, "Unfortunately, we just don't have the bandwidth to have a full-time admin whose only job is to be a Salesforce administrator." So, unfortunately, I did have to switch companies to go and find that. Mike: Okay, so let's pause there because that is the point that I think everybody has questions about, which is, so what did interviewing look like? What kind of prep did you do? You're going from career A to career B, and you kind of have some experience. I mean, what was that like? Because I'm assuming you sat in interviews for jobs you didn't get. David Simpson: Yeah, I won't sugarcoat it. It was a little tough. You're going into a new job where, yes, you do have experience, but you don't have a ton of experience. So, what I focused on was first the credential side of things. By the time I decided to make the jump to be a full-time Salesforce administrator, I did have, I believe, three certifications under my belt. I had the Salesforce administrator certification, the platform app builder, and then the CPQ specialist. So, I- Mike: Ooh, CPQ specialist. Wow. David Simpson: Yeah. Yep. I haven't used it in a while, but it was a very challenging and interesting certification to take. I actually took the Salesforce-provided trainings for it, and it was a wealth of knowledge, but so I had these three certifications. I did lean a little bit heavier on that to say, listen, I may not have years of experience, but you can see here that I'm able to answer the tough questions. Additionally, I did focus on what projects and initiatives I was able to complete at my job while I was part-time being a Salesforce admin. So, I had done some work building a custom object for, funnily enough, our accounting team to log their calls to people for collecting payment. So, I made a point to mention that in my interviews. So, I used the certifications. I used actual project and real-world experience, but something else that was a little kind of ace up the sleeve for my interview process was that I did have finance and accounting background. The job that ultimately hired me, while I did not do finance and accounting work for them, I was able to be a point of contact to help bridge the gap between the finance team and the Salesforce team. If they needed to pull financial data from Salesforce, I would be a person that they could go to, and I could confidently answer that because of my background. So, when it comes to jumping from one career to a Salesforce career, I definitely recommend that people do lean into what they've done in the past and show how they can enhance a new job's day-to-day by focusing on those areas of expertise, but just in a Salesforce context. That's what really helped me because yes, I did unfortunately have a handful of interviews where I didn't get the job, and I think that ultimately came down to just pure raw Salesforce experience. But the job that did hire me, it was because I had a great rapport with their CFO, and I was able to talk the talk with finance as well as bridge that gap to the Salesforce side of things. Mike: Yeah, I mean, you stayed in finance. It's not like you went over to a fish distribution warehouse or something. David Simpson: Yes, exactly. [inaudible 00:10:41]- Mike: I tried to pick something that was the opposite of finance, and my brain went blank for a second, and I was like, "Oh, I just watched a show on cooking last night." David Simpson: I mean, those are pretty different. I can't think of a much more different thing, but yeah, I mean because the Salesforce department at that new job also heavily interacted with the finance department, that was a big benefit to me. Mike: I can feel people listening to this podcast right now, and they're like, ask this question, ask this question, ask this question. I got like a million. What were in ... Because we're going to get to your job, I promise you, but we're going to just stay in this middle ground here for a second. In some of the job search that you were looking for in some of the, I don't know even, it sounds so old of me to call it classified ads. I'm sure it was like LinkedIn listings or Indeed job boards or something. What were some of the things that you looked for in terms of the description that you either filtered in or filtered out in terms applying for? David Simpson: Yeah, so some of the things that I looked for in my job search was making sure that the job posting focused purely on admin work. I think nowadays we focus so much on being specialized in a number of different aspects of Salesforce. It's not uncommon now for admins to have developer skills or maybe dip their toe in the architect side of things, and that is fantastic, don't get me wrong, but I focused mainly on positions that were only looking for admin-related work, so building custom objects, administering users, building validation rules, just those general kind of things were the main items I was looking for when I was transitioning to my first full-time Salesforce job. Additionally, I was looking to see what kind of qualifications and credentials they were looking for from an education side of things. If there was nothing about a Salesforce certification, then I erred on the side of caution and didn't apply there. I wanted a company that was fully bought into the Salesforce ecosystem, and that can be illustrated in a job posting by seeing that they're asking for the proper credentials. An extra little bonus, which was much more rare, was seeing your certain Trailhead status, or you have certain super badges. It's very rare for a job to ask for those sorts of things, but that's how you know you're working with a company that knows the Salesforce ecosystem and knows what they want. Mike: Yeah. And it's done its homework. David Simpson: Exactly. So, I was looking for those types of companies, just really people who were bought into the ecosystem, people who knew what they were looking for, knew what enhancements and long-term goals they had for their Salesforce org, and also was going to treat it with the level of attention and detail that is needed in a Salesforce org. There's many times where unfortunately, due to resourcing or staffing issues, Salesforce gets a little bit put by the wayside, and instead of having great initiatives and solutions deployed, it's just a bunch of band-aids, and then that comes back to the admin saying, "Oh, we can't deliver on something truly incredible because we're not given the time and the resources for it." So, I was looking for companies that really didn't have that mindset and were looking for true, awesome admins. Mike: Yeah. You were fortunate enough that you had worked in an org. Did you, at any one point in time in the interviewing process, think about preparing a developer org or a Trailhead org to showcase some of your skills? David Simpson: When I was first applying for a full-time Salesforce admin, that thought did not cross my mind. That said, this was many years ago in, I think it was 2019. That said, a little over a year ago, I did get a new job at my current position, and during that job search, I did have a Salesforce developer org that I had built out, and I recreated some of my most interesting and complex solutions in that developer org, and then basically in every single job interview I had, I said, "Do you want to see my dev org? I've built some awesome flows." And most of the time they said no. But every once in a while they'd say yes, and then I get to show off my screen flow that I worked really hard on. So, nowadays, yes, I do have my dev org. I'll bring up Trailhead every now and then, or I did back then when I was in the job hunt, but really, I like to showcase the dev org whenever possible because it is something that I'm actively developing in. Even now that I have a job and I'm in a job I love, I still whatever I do at my normal job, if I say, "Oh, that's pretty interesting," I go and I rebuild it in the dev org. But of course, without confidential information. Mike: Right. No. Oh, man. I'm the same way. I was crushed, I want to say a year and a half ago I was prepping for Dreamforce and the dev org that I'd had since 2006. I forgot to log in and it expired. David Simpson: Oh, no. Oh, that's horrible. Mike: And it was just more of like, it was just such an awesome little relic of stuff that I had built and things that I had tried out, and I have another one, but it's not as old and it doesn't have as much. There wasn't anything cool in it, but it was cool because it was stuff that I had built when I was, it had my first workflow in it. David Simpson: It shows a timeline of how you've grown. Mike: Yeah, I mean, very much so. I'd let nobody in there because they'd be like, "What were you doing?" Well, I was a kid with crayons back then. David Simpson: Yeah, you got to make mistakes in order to get better. Mike: Absolutely. Okay. So, I mean, we could do a whole podcast on interviewing and everybody in the comments will be like, "You should." Let's go to day one of the new job. So, you've transitioned, you're no longer 50/50. The company's bought in. Dave's our new Salesforce admin. Day one, outside of all of the HR paperwork and stuff, what did you do on day one? David Simpson: First, I quietly panicked because I was afraid I was not going to be able to live up to expectations. But after that calmed down, I of course met the team. I was very fortunate to work with a team of several people in the Salesforce space. There was two developers, there was another admin. There were two architects, and of course the Salesforce manager. So, they showed me around the org and they showed me some of the details of what they had built, what they're currently building, how they take in tickets. It was just essentially getting a feel for the Salesforce ecosystem that was there. And then from that point, once I was left my own devices, I just continued to do some more digging. I looked, okay, they're using cases. How are they using cases? Where is the queue that stuff that we get asked to do comes in? What does their account object look like? Because the account object is always one of the busiest objects in the Salesforce ecosystem. How many validation rules do they have? I was really just trying to take the little experience that I had from my previous job and then look at those same areas in this new job. So, essentially just getting a feel for the org. Mike: So, you joined a team of people? David Simpson: Yes. Yes. Mike: What was that like? David Simpson: It was a fantastic experience. I still keep in touch with all of them to this day, despite the fact that I haven't worked with them for a few years now. They were all super friendly and super helpful, and I think that was something that really helped me to continue this admin career path is that I got paired with such great people in this team, and it...
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Get More from Your Org with Salesforce Foundations
10/16/2025
Get More from Your Org with Salesforce Foundations
Today on the Salesforce Admins Podcast, we talk to Naveen Gabrani, Founder and CEO of Astrea IT Services. Join us as we chat about why Salesforce Foundations is a game-changer for admins. You should for the full episode, but here are a few takeaways from our conversation with Naveen Gabrani. Why Salesforce Foundations is a big deal This year at Dreamforce, Naveen is giving a presentation about something that Enterprise users already have access to that’s criminally underrated. “Salesforce Foundations is one of those lesser-known features,” he says, “but it is extremely important.” Announced last year, Salesforce Foundations brings the most useful basic features from Sales Cloud, Service Cloud, Marketing Cloud, Commerce Cloud, Data Cloud, and Agentforce to your org. It has a modern UI that consolidates the most important features you use every day into an updated homepage. And the best part? It’s free—you simply have to enable it in Setup. Take Agentforce for a test drive Naveen gives some examples to highlight how important Salesforce Foundations truly is. If you have Sales Cloud, you can borrow Service Cloud features like Knowledge and macros to give your customers some technical support. Or you could build a customer journey with Marketing Cloud’s flow-based interface that feeds into a Commerce Cloud storefront. With so many businesses pushing to integrate AI features, Salesforce Foundations gives you the opportunity to try before you buy. You can configure Agentforce and Data Cloud to get everything integrated with your org and then make the decision to expand functionality. It’s much easier to convince stakeholders when you have something concrete to show them. Tips from a Dreamforce veteran Naveen is a Dreamforce veteran, so I wanted to know what keeps bringing him back, year after year. “The biggest thing for me is to make sure that I get time to meet my customers, meet my friends in the ecosystem, meet my partners,” he says. “Those networking aspects of the conference have helped us a lot as a company in the long term.” Each year, Naveen makes a point of writing a blog post to summarize his takeaways on what’s happening with the platform. Make sure to check it out, and make sure to subscribe to the Salesforce Admins Podcast so you never miss an episode. Podcast swag Learn more Salesforce Admins Podcast Episode: Admin Trailblazers Group Social Full show transcript Mike: This week on the Salesforce Admins podcast, we're joined by Naveen Gabrani, founder of Astrea IT Services and longtime Salesforce ecosystem veteran. Now Naveen sat down with us just a little bit before Dreamforce to share why Salesforce Foundations is a game changer for admins; offering multi-cloud access, a sleek, modern UI, and best of all, it's free with Enterprise or higher licenses. Now if you've been curious about how to do more with what you already have, this episode's for you. Now stay tuned and don't miss Naveen's tips, use cases and insights from 30 years in tech and what he does after Dreamforce. So with that, let's get Naveen on the podcast. So Naveen, welcome to the podcast. Naveen Gabrani: Thank you so much. Thanks for having me. Mike: Yeah. Well, you are a string of presenters that we've had on the podcast over the last month, and today, when this episode comes out, it's the Thursday of Dreamforce. So I bet a lot of people probably listening to this on the plane flying home. But let's get started with a little bit about yourself, kind of how you got in Salesforce, how you got in the ecosystem, and then I want to talk to you more about what you're presenting at Dreamforce. Naveen Gabrani: Great. So my name is Naveen Gabrani. I ran a Salesforce partner company called Astrea IT Services. We are based in a place called Noida in India. So I have been running this company Astrea for about 15 years, so it's been a long time. It's been a fun journey. Before this, I used to work as a program manager with a large MNC, and so my total experience is more than 30 years. Mike: Wow, that's a long time. I was going to say your company is a teenager. Naveen Gabrani: Yeah. Mike: That's been around for a while. Now at Dreamforce this year, which is today. Whee. Or it could have been a few days ago, depending on when you're listening to this. You talked about Salesforce Foundation, get more from your org with Salesforce Foundations. Why was it so important for you to have admins understand how to get more from their org with Salesforce Foundations? Naveen Gabrani: So Salesforce Foundations is one of the features that is less known, but it is extremely important feature. This was announced in last year 2024 Dreamforce, and it's about one year now, but still it is not so well known. So I wanted to work towards making it more popular in the ecosystem. Mike: Yeah. What have you done with Salesforce Foundations? What made you so passionate about it? Naveen Gabrani: Sure. So let me talk a little bit more about what is Salesforce Foundations, and why is it so important? So I would classify Salesforce Foundation has two different parts. One is a modern user interface, which is fun to use, and second is the access to multi-cloud. So let me talk about the user interface part first, then let me get into the multi-cloud functionality. But before that, let me just talk who has access to Salesforce Foundation. So any customer that is using Enterprise Cloud or higher of Sales Cloud, Service Cloud or Industry Cloud, has access to Salesforce Foundation out of the box. The great thing about this is that it is completely free. You just need to enable it in your setup and then you're ready to go. Okay? So that is one of the wonderful things about Salesforce Foundation is that there is no cost involved in using it. Coming back to the user interface part, there are a few different things that are provided in the Salesforce Foundation user interface. One is all the apps are accessible on the left nav bar in a very modern UI. And also for setup for admins, the most important features are available through a dropdown. So for example, managing users, you can just go to the top right and then access the most important features that you use every day. The third important feature of the new Salesforce Foundation user interface is access to a more modern homepage that will give you everything that you need the moment you'll land on the homepage. So that is the UI aspects of the Salesforce Foundation. The second part of Salesforce Foundation is the access to multi-cloud, which is more important actually. So let's say you are using Sales Cloud and you enable Salesforce Foundation. What it will give you is it'll give you access to Service Cloud's essential features, it will also give you access to essential features of Marketing Cloud, Commerce Cloud, Data Cloud, and Agentforce. The reason it is called Salesforce Foundations is because it gives you the platform on which you can start building your Agentforce applications without paying anything extra. Okay? So let me just elaborate this multi-cloud features. Mike: Yeah. Naveen Gabrani: So let's just say that you are using Sales Cloud. Similar things are applicable for Service Cloud as well, but let's assume you are a Sales Cloud or CRM kind of customer. So main features of Service Cloud that will be available to you, to the users, are you have access to Knowledge Base. So the commonly occurring features are available to your users to let's say you can resolve the case using standard Salesforce Knowledge features, even though you are just having the Sales Cloud license. You also have access to features like macros, so you can perform multiple tasks together by just clicking them. Single click. Okay? So that is some of the Service Cloud aspects that are available out of the box to Sales Cloud license with Foundations. The additional clouds that are available are Marketing Cloud and Commerce Cloud, Data Cloud and Agentforce. So let me talk about Marketing Cloud next. So Marketing Cloud here is based on a flow like interface, so it's based on top of flows. So you build journeys and you use flows to build your journeys. So let's say you want to send a mail today and send another mail after two days to a market segment. Then you can create email contents using an Experience Cloud kind of interface, and then you build a journey and set up the campaigns, and this is all included within Salesforce Foundations. Okay? So you have Sales Cloud, you are getting essential version of Marketing Cloud for free, for no other charges. Okay? Mike: Yeah. Naveen Gabrani: So that is another big kind of bonus you get as part of Salesforce Foundation. The next is Commerce Cloud. So as part of your Foundation license, we have access to one storefront. You already have products available as part of Sales Cloud, so we can use Experience Cloud interface, a drag-and-drop kind of functionality, to build a professional looking user interface. And it's fairly easy to set up. So we can build an e-commerce site for our clients using Commerce Cloud and Salesforce Foundations. And this is you can pretty much go live in a day, it's so easy to set up. There are some limitations on the number of transactions and the number of storefronts, etc. But that is... So the idea is if you are a very large company and you're exceeding those limits, then you work with your account manager and purchase additional transactions. Also included our Data Cloud and Agentforce. If you want to just learn Data Cloud or you want to check whether Agentforce is good for me or not, then the idea is you can set it up in your Sales Cloud or Service Cloud org, try it out, test it out, set it up, everything. And then when you are satisfied with it, only then you buy it. So basic advantage of Salesforce Foundations is that you try everything. When you're satisfied, only then go ahead and make a purchase. So that in a nutshell is various aspects that come out of the box without any charges when you have just a Sales Cloud or Service Cloud Enterprise or higher license. Mike: Yeah, I know we did... I was just looking back, and I did a podcast with Eddie Cliff, who at the time was the product manager for Salesforce Foundations. And of course I think the benefit of everything we were talking about was it's such a simplified area to go to so that you know you're turning on all the right things and you're not really having to hop around in set up. Naveen Gabrani: Definitely. That is the interface part of it. Everything is... Like the most easy to access aspects of the platform for end user or for admin are available at one place. Mike: Yeah. You've mentioned you've been in the tech ecosystem for 30 years, and at your company for 15. In terms of if you had to stack rank really cool features that Salesforce has come out with, where on your list would Foundations fall? Naveen Gabrani: Oh, that's a tough one. Mike: Well, I did tell you there might be a few hard questions every now and then. Naveen Gabrani: Yeah, there's so many different things and it's difficult to compare. The big thing about Foundation is obviously the access to so many different things, and it's free. I'm not aware of any great Salesforce product that is available free of cost. So that is one thing that I really like about Foundations. And obviously the things that are extremely popular are... Like because I'm from development background, I like Apex a lot. Pretty much we never have to say no to a client. We never say no for any requirements because we know that we have flows, we have Apex, and we can handle it. So those are a couple of other favorite things that I have. Mike: Do you find, when you're working with clients, that you use Foundations more often to turn on Marketing Cloud and Commerce Cloud? Or do you use it to... Is it when they're expanding from Sales Cloud to Service Cloud? Naveen Gabrani: For now the focus has been on Agentforce, because that is the buzz in the market. But I think Marketing Cloud and Commerce Cloud are going to be equally popular with time, but for now, Agentforce is on everybody's mind. And sometimes clients are not convinced, so they want to give it a try and see a demo before they make a decision, and that's where Salesforce Foundation comes in. Mike: Well, sure. You got to test drive the car before you buy it. Right? Naveen Gabrani: Exactly. Mike: What are you excited about for Dreamforce this year, besides your session on Salesforce Foundations? Naveen Gabrani: I'm kind of a veteran. I've been to Dreamforce I think seven or eight times, I've spoken a few times. And so I mean you make so many friends in the ecosystem over the years, so the biggest thing for me is just to make sure that I get time to meet my customers, meet my friends in the ecosystem, meet my partners. Those are kind of the networking aspects of the conference, that has long-term... That has helped us a lot as a company historically. So because we are virtual, living in a far-off place, and the clients are in the US are elsewhere in the western world, Dreamforce is a place... It's like a get-together. So we get to meet them, build relationships, and then those relationships help us out for rest of the year. Mike: Yeah. No, I could totally understand that. So most people that are going to listen to this episode are probably listening to it after Dreamforce, because it comes out the Thursday of Dreamforce and everyone's like, "Oh my gosh, I got to run to this session. And I got to go to this place and get this food because San Francisco has a lot of food." Naveen Gabrani: Yes. Mike: I'd be remiss if I don't talk about food on my podcast, even though it's a non-food podcast. But my question to you, you've been to a lot of Dreamforces and you've been in the ecosystem for a long time, what is the most important thing that you do after Dreamforce? Naveen Gabrani: So my goal is that I try to summarize a couple of things. One is summarize the key announcements. Mike: Uh-huh. Naveen Gabrani: And whatever I have learned, like interesting things. So I meet a lot of vendors, I go to booths, I spend time in the expo. I listen to a few keynotes and get a feel of the new features that are coming in, I look at a few Salesforce demos, I also attend a few sessions. I try to mix and match and do many different things. So at the end of the show, I have a fair idea about what are the new things that the platform is announcing, and I try to publish a blog on that. That these are my learnings, so that the people who are not able to attend get to see that. That is one. Second is just like an acknowledgement mail to all the people that I have met kind of summarizing our discussions. Mike: Yeah. Naveen Gabrani: So those are the two things that I do while it's fresh in my mind. Mike: And I think you have... Well, a lot of people have a long plane ride home. I'd love for you to remember back to your first Dreamforce. If you could do your first Dreamforce differently, what would you have done? Naveen Gabrani: The first one, I think what happened was that people... I booked a lot of sessions, and so I didn't... It was just spent some time in the expo in looking at demos and all. I was trying to attend session from morning to evening, and your brain gets exhausted. So that was probably not a good idea. That's what I learned. So I try to keep my schedule somewhat free now. Mike: Yeah, I appreciate that as somebody who manages a lot of sessions with a lot of great content for you to have gone to. I was thinking back to my first Dreamforce, and I remember one of the best things I did was if I got to a session early I just sat down and just chit-chatted with the people around me, because we were all there to learn the same thing. Naveen Gabrani: Sure. Mike: And you meet some really fun people. Of course, this was I feel like 100 years ago. I also remember that was one of the first Dreamforce I was walking around with an iPad, and people were like, "Whoa, you're taking notes on iPad." I felt like I was so in the future at that time. Naveen Gabrani: Yeah. How things have changed in the last 10, 15 years. Mike: Right? Exactly. Naveen, I appreciate you coming on the podcast and talking about Foundations. I know I've covered this topic before, but it's really cool. The UI is super intuitive and helpful for admins. And I love that you've been in the ecosystem for a long time and are still coming to Dreamforce and still pointing out new things and inspiring people all the time. Naveen Gabrani: Thanks a lot. Thank you so much, Mike, for having me. Mike: Big thanks to Naveen for joining us and shedding light on Salesforce Foundations. Whether you are helping users with a streamlined interface or testing out Agentforce before you commit, Foundations gives us admins a powerful, no-cost way to do more with our org. Now don't forget to check out Naveen's post-Dreamforce blog wrap-ups, and keep an eye on what's next in the ecosystem. He is out there presenting a lot of things. So until next time, we'll see you in the cloud.
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How Can Admins Use Labs Apps to Get AI-Ready?
10/09/2025
How Can Admins Use Labs Apps to Get AI-Ready?
Today on the Salesforce Admins Podcast, we talk to Sharon Klardie, Senior Director of AppExchange Labs & Innovation at Salesforce. Join us as we chat about how Labs empowers Salesforce employees to build and share solutions on the AppExchange, and what that means for admins navigating the new world of AI. You should for the full episode, but here are a few takeaways from our conversation with Sharon Klardie. What is Salesforce Labs? Next year, Salesforce Labs will celebrate its twentieth birthday. If you haven’t checked it out, it’s an innovation program for Salesforce employees to create solutions, package them, and share them with customers like you. That’s why I was so excited to sit down with Sharon Klardie. She’s the Senior Director of AppExchange Labs & Innovation, and as she puts it, her team’s job is to “showcase the art of the possible.” If you’ve ever stared at a new feature and felt some blank canvas anxiety when it comes to how to actually implement it in your org, browsing through Salesforce Labs solutions could be a great starting point. Even if you don’t end up using something, you can see what’s possible and even look at how they did it on GitHub. The key to AI implementation If you’re like most of the admins I talk to, you’re probably looking for new ways to use Agentforce. As Sharon puts it, “How do you have meaningful and mindful implementations of AI at your organization?” You can get a lot of ideas looking through Labs apps that incorporate Agentforce. However, as Sharon points out, that’s only one piece of the puzzle. You need to get your data in a good place and build a solid foundation for scalable AI, and there are several Salesforce Labs solutions that can help you get started. Best practices for AppExchange Finally, we talk through some AppExchange best practices that will help you get the most out of any Labs solutions you want to try out. First and foremost, never install an app you haven’t used directly into production. Spin up a dev org or sandbox so you can test without breaking anything. But more importantly, make sure you have a solid rollout and change management plan for any new functionality you’re adding to your org. You need to tell users what’s new, teach them how to use it, and be ready to handle any edge cases that will inevitably pop up. Be sure to catch Sharon’s presentations at Dreamforce, and say hi if you see her! And don’t forget to subscribe to the Salesforce Admins Podcast so you never miss an episode. Podcast swag Learn more Trailhead Module: Trailhead Module: AppExchange: AppExchange: YouTube channel: GitHub: Help Article: Admin Trailblazers Group Social Full show transcript Mike: This week on the Salesforce Admin Podcast, I sit down with Sharon Klardie, who's the senior director of Salesforce Labs, to talk about, well, what else? Free innovation. Sharon shares how labs empower Salesforce employees to build and share solutions on the AppExchange and what that means for Salesforce admins navigating the new world of AI and why, this is important, you should never install a new app straight into production. Now, whether you're Dreamforce-bound or catching up after Dreamforce, this one's packed with a lot of great tips from Sharon and a lot of AI strategy gold. So tune in, take notes, and let's get Sharon on the podcast. So, Sharon, welcome to the podcast. Sharon Klardie: Thank you for having me, Mike. Mike: I find it hard to believe, but you are one of the few people in the world that hasn't been on the Salesforce Admin podcast despite you and me being in the ecosystem for like a thousand years. Sharon Klardie: I know. I was thinking about this morning and I was like, "I can't believe I haven't been on here yet." So I'm super excited to share with the listeners here today. Mike: Well, let's talk about that. So how did you get started in Salesforce and in the ecosystem, and what do you do at Salesforce? Sharon Klardie: Oh, I love a Salesforce origin story. So picture, it's 2010, and I'm working at a software company that gets bought by an equity partner, and that equity partner implements Salesforce at every company they buy. And that was my first introduction of Salesforce back when it was just Sales and Service Cloud. And I absolutely felt in love with the platform. I felt empowered. There was community behind it. And ever since then, so from 2010 till today, I've been all Salesforce all the time. Mike: Wow. And you joined Salesforce. What part of Salesforce did you join? Sharon Klardie: So when I joined Salesforce in 2018, I joined leading the Salesforce Labs program. That was exclusively my focus. It's been part of my remit my entire time, almost eight years here at Salesforce. And I've added some other things to what I do on the daily basis, but the Salesforce Labs program, community innovation, it's my passion area. It's what brings me joy. I just actually love being part of it, seeing the creativity of the employee community, creating labs, and seeing the creativity of our trailblazers who are using Labs solutions. Mike: So for anybody that hasn't heard about Labs, when you say Salesforce Labs, what do you mean? Sharon Klardie: So Salesforce Labs is a program that's actually turning 20 next year, if you can believe it. It's an innovation program where we empower Salesforce employees to create solutions, package them, and share them on AppExchange for our customers to use. And Salesforce Labs solutions are always free. They're community-driven. You can think of them like an open-source project. So it's volunteered by employees. It's not an employee who is on a product team and this is part of their regular release roadmap. This is an employee who sees a problem in the space that they want to solve, or they have a really creative idea on how to use our technology. So the Labs program really helps trailblazers to learn new technology, play around with it, get starter packs and templates. Blank canvas anxiety is a real struggle as an admin, throwing back a few years from my admin days, but sometimes a new feature would be rolled out and you'd be like, "I'm not sure where to start." So the Labs program really tries to help trailblazers be able to adopt new technology, understand how you can use it, and showcase the art of the possible. Mike: That's good. I know as an admin, I found Labs because I needed a project management app, and at the time, Reid Carlberg had a really cool one, so I was like, "Oh, that's kind of cool." And then from there on, I looked for the little beaker logo. Sharon Klardie: Yeah, we love that beaker logo, and then we evolved the logo to actually use the periodic elements of tables to use labs spelled out because we're geeky like that. Mike: Right. I know. It kind of has like a Breaking Bad feel to it. Sharon Klardie: Yeah. Mike: I'm all about that. So at Dreamforce you're going to talk about seven free solutions to drive your AI strategy forward, and it's going to be a really cool presentation, and some people are going to get to see it, some people aren't. Why is it important for admins to look to the AppExchange and some of our Labs apps in terms of moving AI forward in their organizations? Sharon Klardie: Yeah. So right now, AI is moving at the speed of light or whatever is faster than the speed of light. I'm not sure what that is, but there's probably something faster than the speed of light, and that's what it feels like is happening right now. So one of the benefits that the Labs program will have is we can showcase different solutions on how to use this new technology, but also I think even more importantly is how do we think about how do we want to implement AI at our organization. And sometimes that might actually be using a Labs solution or another partner solution on AppExchange that isn't actually AI-driven, but helps set the groundwork for how do you have a strong AI strategy. So an example of that would be, is there a set of technology or tools or processes that you should have in place at your organization to really help you identify what are your goals and use cases for using AI? And we have a number of different Labs solutions that we'll share. Pro-tip for anybody who's going to see the content, it would be probably a few more solutions than seven. We'll throw a couple bonus things in there and some shout-outs. But there's a lot of technology out there to really help you frame is your data ready. Data readiness is super important as an AI strategy to move forward in the space. If you're going to train your AI or use AI on your data and if your data is no good, then you're going to have a problem. The AI isn't going to respond the way that you expect or what your business needs. So we want to showcase these solutions that you can use to get started to help ground you in strong AI strategies. Mike: So it's not just downloading agents. Sharon Klardie: Exactly. It's going to be more than that. It's really about thinking about how do you have meaningful and mindful implementation of AI at your organization. And we'll also have some showcases of how to use cool Agentforce and AI technology. Mike: Oh, nice. I noticed you put the word free in your title. That implies that there's some that aren't free. Sharon Klardie: Yes. So all Salesforce Labs solutions are free. So anything that our employees create and contribute are free to download from AppExchange. But there are other solutions from our partner ecosystem and some are free and some are paid. It is important to note for anybody who's not familiar with the Salesforce Labs program is these are not official Salesforce products, which is actually called out in the master service agreement, the MSA. These are community contributions, so you can't pick up the phone and call support and get help for them. We generally try to open-source all of our Labs solutions on GitHub so you can actually use it to learn new technology, see how an employee built that solution, or maybe that solution does 80% of what you want, but you want to change it. You can go get the source code and then go customize it for whatever works for your business. And if the solution that the employee built hits a home run and it solves your business challenge you're trying to solve, you can go install the managed package and off to the races. Mike: Yeah. And I'm also thinking any of your Labs apps are also going to immediately be able to be agentified? Sharon Klardie: I would say. So we have some Labs solutions. I wouldn't say that's a hundred percent guarantee, although most of them should be able to be extended, but we have over 500 Labs solutions on AppExchange and I can't say conclusively that all 500 would become- Mike: You don't know all 500 just like the back of your hand? Come on now. Sharon Klardie: I, unfortunately, do not. I know many of them, but not all 500. But yeah, most of them should be extended. We're actually looking at engaging with some of our more popular Labs solutions and having conversations with the builders to say like, "What are ways that we could extend this using newer technology that's come out?" Either adjacent, something like if you want to use AI, you can add onto it, but if you still want to use the main core functionality, like custom objects and flows that was there but not to have an AI arm to it, then you could still use the original. But how can we take these to the next level using the great technology that's come out over the past couple of years? Mike: Yeah. Now, I think the use of apps within Salesforce has probably evolved since you and I were out in the world as we little admins wandering blindly through the Salesforce universe, because it's become ubiquitous that you'd use an app on your phone, right? Like there's specialized apps to do things. Oftentimes on my iPhone, I'll get an app, I'll try it out, it won't work, I'll just delete it, but I don't have a spare phone. What is best practice for admins evaluating apps, be it from Labs or somewhere on the AppExchange, in terms of trying and testing something out perhaps before it goes into production? Sharon Klardie: There absolutely are some best practices. Number one will be we do not install brand-new apps we've never explored into production. We do not do that. I'll repeat, we do not do that. Some trailblazers like to explore in a dev org first, but the cons of that is you don't have your unique customizations. A lot of trailblazers have a lot of success in installing a Labs solution or a partner solution in a sandbox first so you can see how it interacts with the customizations you've made to the platform. But both either a dev org or a sandbox is absolutely where you want to start to check out any new solution, whether it be Labs or partner solution. Mike: Yeah. So that was the first mistake that I made back in the day. I would just try things out in production. Why not? Sharon Klardie: Yeah, no, hopefully nobody takes that guidance, Mike. Definitely it's much more advantageous for everyone to play around and see how things work. And it gives you a little bit more freedom as an admin to look under the hood and see how exactly it's going to work and then what your rollout plan is. Because it's just like what I tell my Labs builders, it's not if you build it, they will come. It's not if you install it, it will work, right? Mike: Right. Sharon Klardie: So you also need to have that kind of change management process at your organization. If you just install a new app and have some great functionality, if you don't tell your users about it once you move it to production, they might not know what to do with it or they might not use it in the way that you had in mind. I think we all know in technology, when we release things into the wild of our user base, we are going to come across some use cases and edge cases that we never thought might be the reality. So the more that you can get ahead of that and the change management process, it's just going to be smoother for both you as an admin and also for your end users. Mike: Yeah. Now, one thing I'd be remiss not to cover, we talked a lot about consumption part, but you mentioned Labs is also open to non-Salesforce employees, correct? Sharon Klardie: No. So only Salesforce employees today can create and distribute a Salesforce Labs solution. Mike: Gotcha. But our AppExchange is open to non-Salesforce? Sharon Klardie: Absolutely. We have a very robust partner ecosystem and a process to engage. It can be a free solution that somebody wants to create as a business to kind of spin up and share with the community. You can go through our partner program to do that. And of course, it's an ecosystem, so if you have a solution, idea that you believe is of value to our broader trailblazer community and customers, then you can engage with our program and list there. But anything created by Salesforce Labs is created by a Salesforce employee. Mike: Yeah. Sharon Klardie: And I just also want to note Labs go through the same security review process that all of our partner solutions go through as well. Mike: Oh, so no cheating because it's a Salesforce employee? Sharon Klardie: That's exactly right. Trust is our number one value here. We want all the Labs to adhere to that as well. Mike: Right, yeah. No, it's same rules apply for everybody. That way you get the same quality and consistency. So that makes sense. Well, Sharon, thanks for coming on the podcast. I think this session's going to be awesome. I can't wait to hear what people have to say about it, and I can't wait to see what new stuff comes out from the Labs team. Sharon Klardie: Yeah. Well, thank you for having me. Hopefully, it's the first time, but hopefully not the last time. I've really enjoyed chatting with you, Mike, and if anybody is at the session and shows up at Dreamforce, stop by and say hello. I'd love to meet you. And I'm on LinkedIn, and if you want to engage with that way, share any feedback about the Labs program, I'm happy to engage. Mike: So a big thanks to Sharon for joining us and sharing some behind-the-scenes look at the Salesforce Labs. I don't know about you, but I'm ready to fire up a sandbox and test drive some :abs apps. That was always the most fun part for me as an admin. But remember, not in production, just in a sandbox or not in production. But hey, if you're heading to Dreamforce, don't miss her session on the seven, plus she says a few bonus free sessions to fuel your AI strategy. And remember, best part about Salesforce Labs apps is they're free and open, and they're built with you, the community, the Salesforce admins, developers, architects in mind. So with that, until next time, we'll see you in the cloud.
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Making Data Cloud Understandable for Admins
10/02/2025
Making Data Cloud Understandable for Admins
Today on the Salesforce Admins Podcast, we talk to Abhishek Saxena, Technical Architect at Copado. Join us as we chat about how he learned Data Cloud and why understanding context is the key to making Agentforce shine. You should for the full episode, but here are a few takeaways from our conversation with Abhishek Saxena. Overcoming the complexity of Data Cloud As a developer and architect, Abhishek isn’t lacking for technical knowledge about the Salesforce platform. But even he found it hard to get his head around what Data Cloud was and what it could do. Abhishek attended community events, scoured LinkedIn posts, studied videos, and even read a book about Data Cloud. But there were so many new terms being thrown around, and he still couldn’t explain the difference between a data lake object, a data model object, and a data source object. “Even though there was a lot of buzz around Data Cloud and how it is such an amazing, innovative solution,” Abhishek says, “I was not able to grasp what it does in an easy fashion.” Luckily, he had an ah-ha moment that helped him see the big picture, and so he’s giving a presentation at Dreamforce to share what he’s learned. What Data Cloud actually does Abhishek’s talk, “A Beginner’s Guide to Data Cloud,” will get you up to speed in 20 minutes or less. As he explains, the main thing to understand is that Data Cloud is about data unification. If you have your data in a bunch of different places, you used to have to dedicate significant developer time to maintaining APIs that allowed Salesforce to share information with your other platforms. With Data Cloud, you have everything on one record, with Salesforce and Slack as the front door. You have a complete 360 view of your customer, regardless of where the information is. Why Data Cloud is crucial for Agentforce Getting a complete picture of your customers is doubly important when it comes to Agentforce. AI agents are extremely context-dependent: they do a much better job when you “ground” them with extra parameters. As Abhishek says, “If you give agents good data, your responses are going to be much more personalized and better.” Data Cloud allows you to give your AI agents a much more specific picture of your customers, opening the door for better and more effective automations. If you’re coming to Dreamforce, make sure to come to Abhishek’s presentation so you can be a Data Cloud pro. And don’t forget to subscribe to the Salesforce Admins Podcast so you never miss an episode. Podcast swag Learn more Salesforce Admins Blog: Admin Trailblazers Group Social Full show transcript Mike: So have you ever tried to figure out what a data lake is and then ended up wondering where the lifeguard's at? Ditto. Today on the Salesforce Admins podcast, we're talking with Abhishek Saxena, a Salesforce consultant with a developer's mindset and a teacher's heart. Abhishek's going to take us through his journey of learning Data Cloud and how it went from something buzzworthy to something he could really explain to a five-year-old. So if you've ever felt overwhelmed by new tech or just really weren't sure where to begin this episode's for you. Plus Abhishek gives us a sneak peek at his Dreamforce session and why understanding context is key in making AI tools like Agentforce shine. So with that, let's get Abhishek on the podcast. So Abhishek, welcome to the podcast. Abhishek: Thank you so much for having me, Mike. Mike: I'm excited to talk about this because of all the things going on at Salesforce, we've got a big event coming up in just a few weeks from when this is going to air, and you're doing a presentation there, but before we talk about that, let's find out a little bit about you. How did you get started doing stuff in the Salesforce ecosystem and want to present at Dreamforce? Abhishek: Certainly. So I have been working in the Salesforce ecosystem for about 10 years now, it'll be 10 years later in November. I started off immediately after my college where I was studying computer science engineering. I always had an affinity to computers and how they work, so it was an easy choice to what to study. But getting into Salesforce, that was a happy coincidence. My hometown, where I'm originally from, it's called Jaipur, it's in India, and that's where I did my engineering from as well, Jaipur is traditionally not touted as a tech hub, but for some divine reasons there were several Salesforce consultancies that were trying to make it big in that area when I was just graduating, I got an offer to work for one of them as a Salesforce consultant after a series of intense grueling interviews. But yeah, that's how I got started, and I have never looked back since then. Mike: Fresh out of college. And let's see, people heard this in the past, I've recently had somebody point out to me that my Salesforce experience is old enough it could graduate from high school. So your Salesforce experience is somewhere in middle school, I guess, at this point. Abhishek: Yeah, sounds about right. I'm eager to get to high school and get to be the cool kid. Mike: Well, right now it's getting its first iPhone and being popular. I don't know what ten-year-old kids do nowadays, I don't have kids, so we'll just move on. Eventually my experience will be in college and that'll scare me. Abhishek: Yeah, I hope I can get the certified technical architect or MVP or one of those cool badges to show around everyone. Mike: Yeah, I don't know. I mean, being in the ecosystem is just fun enough too. It's not going down the road with all those biker patches or like a race suit. It's not, what was that game? Pokemon? You don't have to collect them all. But you're talking Data Cloud, so tell me from your experience, what's so interesting about Data Cloud that admins need to know about it? Abhishek: So as I mentioned, I've been in the ecosystem for a long time and got decent exposure on Sales Cloud, Service Cloud, Experience Cloud, so yeah, just the core platform in general. But over the last few years, Data Cloud has been one of those top things, and most talked about things from Salesforce at events everywhere. So even though there was a lot of buzz around Data Cloud about how it is such an amazing innovative solution, it could replace some of the other tools that an organization might be using, I was not able to grasp what it does in an easy fashion. Especially around two years back, 2023 Dreamforce when it was relaunched after being renamed from Genie, I was trying to understand what it does, what could be its use cases, maybe look at some Trailhead modules, but at that point in time, there wasn't a lot that was available. So Trailhead modules weren't baked out completely. There weren't any demo environments that I could get hands on, and it just felt a little bit overwhelming. I knew my friends who were doing Marketing Cloud, Einstein, CDP, that sort of stuff, knew what was going on, but us commoners who were just working on the core clouds. Mike: Us commoners. Abhishek: Yeah, we weren't privy to that information as much as they were. So I started to get down on this journey to learn a little bit myself because yes, seems like everyone was talking about it. So I started by attending different community events in the States and Canada, trying to attend the Data Cloud specific sessions, read people's LinkedIn posts, watch some videos. I even read a book on Data Cloud- Mike: Wow. Abhishek: ... that one of our friends in the community had put out, but even then it was just so overwhelming trying to think about it logically. I am an engineer, I like to think about things in a logical analytical manner that, okay, I'll first learn the alphabets, then I'll start to learn words, sentences, so on and so forth. So I wasn't able to get that topography down in my mind that way to get started with Data Cloud. There was these few workshops or actually Salesforce Data Cloud trainings that Salesforce teams were doing several times a month. I had to attend that one training probably four times until it finally clicked to me that, okay, now it feels that I have the basics down of what's going on with Data Cloud, and if someone comes up to me and asks me about it, I'll probably be able to give at least a satisfactory answer on what exactly is Data Cloud. But at this point, now I had several months of experience trying to learn Data Cloud, I thought that, okay, let me go ahead and do the Data Cloud certification as well just to quiz myself if I know enough. I did that and I passed. So that was the validation I was seeking that, okay, now I am somewhat of a Data Cloud consultant. But I wanted to share this journey with everyone else because I consider myself fairly technical with a consultant and a developer background, and if it took me a lot of time to get through, then I would not blame anyone else in the ecosystem who's not as technical to not completely understand that, Hey, why Data Cloud? What is Data Cloud? Why is this important? So that's why I thought that yes, I need to share my knowledge with everyone else. Mike: No, I get that. And what's so relevant about all that is when companies roll out features, and I'm not just speaking for Salesforce, but anybody, there's often a lot of thought and process that has gone into it, and just because you don't get it right away within a sentence or two or 10 seconds into somebody's presentation, that's not on you. That's just speaking to the complexity of perhaps the situation, where you're at in your learning journey, and then also just the complexity of the product that you're trying to understand. I think it's a lot for you to say, it took me a few months to kind of wrap my head around this. It doesn't just happen right away. And I think some people get really frustrated in themselves when they're like, well, I just don't get it. Abhishek: No, absolutely. I agree with you. And yeah, I have been very lucky that I like what I do. So even after work, I'm not afraid to put in some hours to just sharpen my skills. But everyone's situation is not the same, you've got a life outside work as well, you've got so many things going on that sometimes you're just not able to put in those 10,000 hours to get perfect on something. And that's why I feel that if you attend my session on A Beginner's Guide to Data Cloud, at least in those 20 minutes that we are together, I could give you a good framework about, okay, after you leave it that I understand what is Data Cloud. I know what are some key use cases and why everyone says that it's needed for Agentforce. So that's what I'm trying to get out in those 20 minutes for everyone who has not yet had the opportunity and the luxury to actually focus on going through the Data Cloud trail certification modules or just having the training on the job of their own organization adopting Data Cloud yet. Mike: Yeah. What was it for you, as you were investigating looking into and learning about Data Cloud, what was the first kind of piece of it that started to click for you that really was like, oh, I think I'm starting to understand it? Abhishek: Yeah, great question. So when I was learning about it, and as I said, Data Cloud is a slightly different beast than the regular core clouds like Sales, Service, Experience, it's something called as a near core cloud. So it's not directly built on Salesforce, it's Salesforce adjusting, you can say. So some of the concepts that were being introduced, they were not getting my other knowledge that I had gained through learning Sales, Service and Experience Cloud. There were concepts called as Data Lakes, there were some activations, segmentations, things that I had never really learned in the other clouds while working on it. So even though it was somewhat difficult to get the vocabulary for Data Cloud to get started, once I was able to work through those first few basic things, the biggest aha moment for me was when I saw that Data Cloud can help you consolidate a lot of different records. So I'll try to explain this and I go into much more detail in my session as well. If anyone in our listeners is in the attendance, I would love to have you in my session. But just to give you a recap or a quick preview of what I'm going to talk about is that let's say your company uses Salesforce, your company also uses SAP for something else. Your company maybe uses Trello for tracking some stuff as well. So you have your record your identity as, since my name is Abhishek, all these systems have my identity there in SAP or ServiceNow, Abhishek can do certain things, maybe that has my personal email for some reason, or maybe a different phone number. And then the Abhishek on the Salesforce ecosystem, that record, that contact or user, has slightly different details. Maybe the address I put in is different. Maybe the phone number I put in is my work phone, and in the other one I put in my personal phone. So what Data Cloud ends up doing is that from these different identities of Abhishek that exist in these separate platforms that are not linked, it allows you to create one record where all of your identities are linked. So in case I want to get Abhishek's email in SAP, I can just call out to Data Cloud and Data Cloud will give that to me instead of myself having to write three or four different APIs trying to de-duplicate records, trying to find some common way or how it's called an external key of linking that, okay, this Abhishek in Salesforce and that Abhishek in SAP are the same person. Data Cloud takes all of that complexity out of this and just tells you that, okay, Abhishek's record exists in five systems, here are the values of different things in those five systems. And I could just get that. So once I understood this, I was like, wow, this unified data that Data Cloud is giving you could have so many ramifications. And that's again, one of those things that I explored in that presentation that how agents that need this sort of information can benefit from Data Cloud. Mike: You were so close. I was about to say, wow, you just described Data Cloud and you didn't talk about agents. But no, what's crazy is thinking back in my umpteen hundred years of Salesforce experience, there's been different waves of where's your data? For a while it was, well, Salesforce is CRM, and then they had Service and then that takes care of that. But there's another system for this and there's another system for that, another system for that. And the world just kind of operated that way. It was like just understood, people had multiple systems to log into. And I remember for a long time when I was a Salesforce administrator, the big question was, well, such and such system, does X, can't Salesforce do that? And there was a big push for admins and developers to kind of rebuild all of this functionality into Salesforce. And so you would have these really robust time management or project management apps and the platform could more than easily handle it. And you didn't have to be a coder, you could build a project management app with a few objects and a couple dozen fields and some relationships, and there you're ready to go. And then it kind of became like, well, wait a minute, why are we spending all this time building on this platform when we can just connect things? But there was no sense of unification there. And I think in your description, what I heard is finally now you can have an entire enterprise where the front door is Salesforce or Slack and it can access all of that data and you're getting a complete view of a customer regardless of where the system information is, and that allows other applications and other things to run and do their job just well, but you still get that unified pull back in, and then you don't have the burden of a developer maintaining 200 APIs on the back end. Abhishek: 100%, Mike, you got a spot on. Mike: See, you're a good teacher. Look at what you just taught me. Abhishek: Well, you are not a bad student either. Mike: Well, I think a lot of people have had Data Cloud explained to them in terms of agents and Agentforce, and there's power there, but there's also the first step out the front door, which is, yeah, but what if your customer service people or your salespeople sit down and actually get that full view that we've been talking about regardless of where the system of that information lives? Abhishek: Certainly, and that reminds me actually, so the terminology that Data Cloud uses is that you get the customer 360 view. Meaning that, okay, your organization uses Salesforce for CRM, you are using Azure to actually log into different systems, single sign on, maybe Excel and other Azure products. You're using Workday for HR related things. You're using Asana for project tracking. And like I said, you have different identities in these different systems, different values for maybe same fields, similar fields like email address, regular address, phone number, et cetera. But with Data Cloud, you are able to unify all of these different identities of a single user and then present that within your Salesforce systems as the customer 360 where you can access all these different details and take much more intelligent decisions. So hopefully now our listeners are able to get that, okay, why is it so important for Agentforce and why is it so important in general. Mike: Yeah. So then that's my next question. Why is it so important for Agentforce? Abhishek: So agents, like any AI, and I'm sure our listeners must have used some sort of AI at this point, ChatGPT, Gemini or anything. When do agents do their best work? They do their best work when they have good context to go on and a good prompt that the user asks. Now, what is context? Context means that if you ask it to write me a sales email, if that's your prompt, it's going to give you a very generic answer, a generic response that, okay, Dear ABC, are you interested in our sales services? Are you interested in buying our product? But that's going to be it. It's going to imagine a few things, it's going to skip out some important details. So basically the answer is going to be generic and not as helpful for your particular organization's scenarios. Now, if you provide the agent with good context that whenever agent responds, it knows that I'm working for Coral Cloud Resorts, I am responsible for handling bookings, I can refund things, I can access customer details and which objects to look at, where to get the information from. If your agent has these informations, or again, a simpler example that if you are in ChatGPT and tell it that, okay, I want to write a sales email as a customer service agent for Coral Clouds, my name is Abhishek Saxena, when you start your email, start with the salutation. This is intended to be for the guests who are staying at the resort. And if I give all of these details and then hit enter, the response I'm going to get is going to be a lot more personalized. And that's how you can automate it to send to any user that is using your agent. That's what I mean by why context is so important for any AI to work. And with Data Cloud, as we have discussed in the podcast so far, it gives you that unified profile. It gives you the customer 360 so that your agents have all the information about your particular user who is asking the question or to wherever you're trying to use it. Because good data, if you give it good data, your responses are going to be much more personalized and better. Mike: And that's a lot of what we do in the Agentforce Now workshops like the one I do, the intro one where we talk about just prompts and even just writing a better, more descriptive prompt. If you think about it, I kind of reference it in the same way of it's like learning to cook with one cookbook or learning to cook with a library of cookbooks. If you have...
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How Do Admins Use Business Analysis Skills Effectively?
09/25/2025
How Do Admins Use Business Analysis Skills Effectively?
Today on the Salesforce Admins Podcast, we talk to Denise Carbone, Director of Delivery at ImagineCRM. Join us as we chat about her journey from business analyst to external consultant admin and why AI makes BA skills even more valuable. You should for the full episode, but here are a few takeaways from our conversation with Denise Carbone. Why business analyst skills are so important for AI Denise was working as a business analyst when she was first handed the keys to a Salesforce org. She remembers getting a plaque in the mail for being one of the first 500 people to become Salesforce certified. Obviously we’ve come a long way since then, but the skills needed to understand a business problem and map out the requirements for a solution haven’t changed. As Denise explains, you have to be “process first, technology second.” I sat down with her for this episode to find out how these BA skills are even more important with Agentforce. The power of asking why In order to really do your job well, an admin needs to be more than just an order taker. But if you’re spending your time running through a list of requests without having conversations with users and really understanding the business process, well, that’s a tough row to hoe. Instead, you need to ask why. That’s where your business analyst skills come into play. You need to have a full understanding of how things currently work, where they could be improved, and who cares about it the most. Admins in the age of AI Another key business analyst skill is change management. You may have built the coolest solution in the world, but how do you get folks to actually use it? As Denise explains, if you want your solution to be adopted, you need to make it adaptive. As you’re building, you need to keep going back to your users for input. If they feel like their feedback is a part of the process, they’ll have ownership over the results. While Agentforce has greatly expanded what the platform can do, it’s still just technology you’re using to help solve a business problem. As long as you understand the why behind a request, you can build solutions that transform your organization. Be sure to listen to the full episode for more from Denise on business analyst best practices and the importance of establishing AI governance policies. And don’t forget to subscribe to the Salesforce Admins Podcast to catch us every Thursday. Podcast swag Learn more Salesforce Admins Blog: Admin Trailblazers Group Social Full show transcript Mike: This week on the Salesforce Admins podcast, I'm joined by Denise Carbone, longtime admin, Salesforce MVP, and all-around champion of business analysis. We unpack her journey from BA to external admin through the power of asking why, and why AI makes those foundational skills more valuable than ever. So, whether you're like me and you've just figured out dependent picklists, or you're leading delivery teams, I promise Denise's insight on governance, process and career growth is a must-listen. So with that, let's get Denise on the podcast. So Denise, welcome to the podcast. Denise Carbone: Awesome. Thanks, Mike. I'm really happy to be here. Mike: I know, I've been to a whole bunch of Chicago user groups, I can't believe I haven't had you on the podcast. So, I've tipped the scale a little bit in your favor, but tell us how you got into the ecosystem and what you do in Chicago. Denise Carbone: Yeah. No, thank you. Thank you. Yes, longtime listener of the podcast so happy to be here. So, I actually started in the ecosystem in 2004. I was a BA turned external admin. I was working for a technology company in Chicago, and I was bestowed the ownership of our Salesforce platform. I was a BA operations kind of girl. I've done work in CRM systems like Goldmine and Act!, so really old system. So, when Salesforce was presented to me I wasn't totally intimidated. I knew it was a CRM platform, I just didn't know much about it. I will be honest, I did not fall immediately in love with it. Later on I found out why. It was not because of the platform or the technology, it was because of lack of governance and processes. So, when I was doing reporting and operational metrics and things weren't being presented, as the CEO was saying, as they wanted to see them, it turned out just a lack of the governance and the processes is what really caused those issues. So, I put my BA hat back on and went back to the team, and explained some of these points we had to clean up and just do better with some guidance, and some structure and rigor around using the tool in the platform me. And that was in 2004, so in 2006 I attended my first Chicago user group meeting. Completely intimidated. I had major imposter syndrome because I really didn't know much about the platform. Do I even belong here? But I needed to learn, I had that desire and curiosity to really build out my skill set. So, I got a little bit more comfortable in this ecosystem. And then, in 2008 I was presented an opportunity to help co-lead the group. The user group leader was moving on and actually going to work for Salesforce at that time, and left a vacancy in Chicago. So I said, "Yes, sure." At the time I agreed to helping co-lead the Metro Chicago area, so just anything in the city limits. And that same year I actually took the certification exam. So, in October of 2008 I was certified as an admin. So that solidified, put to rest slightly the imposter syndrome that I was carrying along, but felt really confident and good about that. And a few months later I received a plaque in the mail, I was one of the first 500 people globally to become Salesforce certified. Mike: Welcome to the club. Denise Carbone: Thank you. It was a really cool designation at the time, but yet looking back how many years later, I'm like, "Oh my God." And today with the number of certified professionals out there and all the different types of certifications available, it's a pretty cool little fun fact. So, I like to share that. And going into my career, and again, I was on the client side for the past, starting my career from 2004 on the client side, learning the platform, being that admin, external admin, utilizing my business analyst skills, always asking the questions of why. In 2013, I actually joined the MVP program, so super, again, imposter syndrome, why am I here? Appreciate all the peer support, love being there, but also completely intimidated. I wasn't sure if I belong, but it was a really cool opportunity for me to learn and grow, get to meet amazing people like yourself, Mike. Mike: Oh, thank you. Denise Carbone: And Steve Moe, actually, I was a huge fan of Steve's. Met him through the MVP program, became friends to date. The MVP program just helped me solidify my career and just learning journeys I think is where it helped me the most. In 2015 I took the leap over to the partner side, so I needed the opportunity to really stretch my skillset. Working on the client side, you really are focused on industry specific workflows and processes, your growth opportunities on the industry side, at least for me at that time, were a little bit limited. So, going over to the partner side was really an opportunity for me to stretch my skillsets in both BA and admin, working with clients, getting to know why they're building something and less about the how. So, one of my mantras I use all the time is it should always be process first and then technology second. I've seen situations where people love the shiny things and, "Oh, we can automate this and turn this on, and doesn't this look great?" And the design of the layout is, it's not intuitive, it's hard to follow. It doesn't make sense. It's over-automated, over-architected, over-engineered, so I always like to peel it back and ask the questions why, and get to learn more about the users, more about what we're trying to solve for. I love that journey, and when I joined the partner side I had the opportunity to really upskill myself in both BA, administration, and then just focused on delivery. So on the partner side today, I am a director of delivery. I stepped into a leadership role in the past 10 years. So, I started as a director of delivery in 2015 with a team of one. I was able to build a team of 14 people, which means I manage a team of consultants, and I am accountable for all of our project success. Today I'm in the same industry, work for a smaller SI. We are focused in the philanthropy space and also nonprofits. Again, I support a team of consultants and I am very client-facing. I work day-to-day with our teams, I meet with our clients, and I'm accountable for the overall project success. So, one of the things I really love about the job I do today is the coaching and the mentoring for learning and upskilling. In this space in the day and age that we're in today, things change fast. I remember last summer seeing a preview of the Dreamforce keynote where they're talking about agents, and being presented to us, and what do we think about this, and how does this work? I will say Salesforce has done an amazing job at providing enablement so that we can all start this learning journey, and you have to stay up to date with it because it changes, as you know, as the ecosystem knows, almost weekly. So, it's been fantastic. But today, again, I focus on project delivery with my teams, and upskilling, and supporting, and mentoring folks. Mike: Wow, you said a lot in all of that answer. So, I want to dig into what you're presenting at Dreamforce, but there was a theme in your answer that's come through on quite a few podcasts, which is imposter syndrome. Do you feel that a lot of admins get into their role because they weren't pursuing something in tech and they fell into it? Is that where you were feeling your imposter syndrome? And to be fair, I also want you to clarify, when you say BA you mean business analyst, right? Denise Carbone: Correct, yes. Business analyst. Mike: Okay. So I mean, you had a background in business analyst skills. That's not a skill to scoff at. What do you think was giving you the imposter syndrome? Denise Carbone: That's a great question. I think it was learning the technology and learning the platforms, I felt at the time when I fell into it, anything technology related you would be categorized as a developer, and it was very tech heavy. We used technology, we used business tools, but it was just a tool. I didn't have to learn the behind the scenes. So, I felt a little intimidated that we're learning the system, and I think the power of the platform, which really helped solidify my career and I think a lot of people's career back at that time was the clicks not code focus and everything that you're able to do declaratively. That was a huge lift for people's career. Obviously when I started back in 2004 I wasn't seeking out a role in the Salesforce ecosystem, and I'm using my air quotes here, because it wasn't really a thing. We didn't call it out at that time. It was a business tool, and it took you through a whole wave and phase of a career path. And today in this space, I think it was even maybe eight years ago when people were really talking about career transitions, and they wanted to get into the Salesforce ecosystem and they wanted to learn Salesforce, and it was definitely a shift in that learning and it became a career back in 2004. And I don't know about even yourself and folks, was that something people aim for? I think it started becoming a career path more towards maybe 2008, 9, 10, when certifications become more prevalent. Mike: I mean, I ask because I'm the similar path. I was hired to do something else, and along the way of improving business process Salesforce became vital. And so it was, "Well, I have to learn this because it's really at the crux of improving our business process." There's only so much I can do to suggest sales stages and stuff, but without the technology supporting it. And so yeah, I mean, I accidentally fell into it, and within easily a couple years I was like, "This is my full-time job." Denise Carbone: It does become full-time job, for sure. I think my skillset in being a business analyst, my superpower, if I'm getting asked that today what's my superpower, is being able to break down complexity and talk in layman terms. That is a huge, again, superpower, because I have this ability to hear and kind of visualize in my head a process flow chart. Like, "Okay, we start here." I always ask people if we're trying to elicit requirements and gather requirements, understand a day in the life of the X persona, "Walk me through your day," and they walk through stuff. And you start getting a visual and how you can build it, but outside of the technology is really getting to know their process and building out. Because sometimes people say, "Oh, this is so different. You've probably never seen this before." Well, some cases maybe because maybe really broken, or sometimes it's just they never took time to step a few steps back and optimize, make things more efficient. So, I love efficiencies, I love optimization, I love the ability to break down complexities, I love the ability to speak in layman terms. I think that's a learning that I've taken wholeheartedly through my journey because I can speak business speak, I don't want to speak Salesforce speak if the recipient on the other end doesn't speak Salesforce. So, I want to speak in a language that's going to be comfortable for them, and then break down the complexity and really help and work to build systems that are going to bring the client along for the journey. Mike: I feel like we've gotten a hell of a preview of your Dreamforce presentation. Because I don't know if admins always think, "Well, I'm doing business analysis," how do you look at business analysis maybe different than somebody that's never been formally trained? Denise Carbone: That's a great question, and this will definitely be part of my session, is I always ask why. There's been a mantra back in the admin world- Mike: Forever. Denise Carbone: Yeah, we're not order takers. We should ask the question on why. I've heard people say, "You should say no," but I would challenge that and say, "Well, ask why," because that is the root of what a business analyst is doing is they have this curiosity mindset where they are just like, "Well, why? Why do you do this? Have you ever considered this?" Just not saying no per se. I like to say, "Yes, and," but you give the options. Because you can do it, this, this or this, but what are the impacts of your decision if you go that route? So, I believe that admins inherently have some BA, business analyst built into their skills, it's just maybe they don't realize it yet, it's unrealized. But they actually do in a way, if they're asking what somebody wants, and they should also follow up with why. I think that should be the starting question honestly, and then go forward and then do the build if applicable. But it's definitely a learned skill. The other flip side to that is, I think there was, I've heard it before and it's so not true, that business analysts are not just note takers. They should never be a note taker. I mean, they can do documentation, but they're not glorified note takers. It's definitely a skillset where you talk about a user story, or a requirement, or use cases. Those are all three very separate things. And the reason why you do some of this documentation upfront is to make sure that what we're building as admins meet the technical requirements for the end user. Mike: What is your best advice for an admin to not be a note taker? Because I think when I first started, I knew improvements that needed to be done because I was in sales and I was working on sales. And so, very easily out of the box I was like, "Well, I know we need this. I know we need to track that." And then it quickly became my user seeing the change and offering for, "Well, can you add this? Can you add this? Can you add that?" And I think what I realized early on was I really wanted to appease my users right away. Like, "Oh yeah, absolutely I can do this." Or I remember the time, this is going to sound silly, I remember I figured out how to do dependent picklists, and let me tell you, I was like, "I can code the internet, because I can make a picklist where if you pick hot dogs it can say 'Red Hots,' and if you pick hamburgers it can say, 'Rare, medium, well.'" And I just thought I was the cat's pajamas. Denise Carbone: [inaudible 00:16:51] it was very powerful. Mike: Yeah. And then your users are like, "Well, can you make it do this?" I was like, "Yes, I can. Ha-ha. That's a dependent picklist." For a while all I wanted to build was dependent picklists. But how do you move from that to like, "No, I need to set a vision. I need to understand more of what's going on"? How do you make that your approach versus piling up a bunch of tickets? Denise Carbone: That's a great question. So, you want to make sure that it's going to be adopted, that we always talk about adoption in the space, and adapted, being adaptable to things and change. So, there's a whole change management aspect of what we do. I do believe that through the journey and empowering the admins, it's making sure, so partnering with the end user. I think it's on the consulting side we always say, "We're a partner," so we partner with our clients. It is a partnership because we can do the work but we need their input, and we want feedback. So, it's like a continuous feedback loop. So, we have a hybrid methodology in how we do things today, but it's definitely we will gather requirements, and get approval of these requirements, and do some build, and we build that. We break it up in sprints, maybe theme it out by certain features and functionality and present it back to the end user and get their feedback. "Does this work? Does this look good? Are we missing anything? Is there any key step that we did not capture?" It's really getting that buy-in as you're doing the build so that it can easily be adopted, and you're getting the feedback in the time where it's more real time. So, if it's features and functionalities that are, like you said, the bells and whistles of dependent picklists were amazing, but after a while it could become stale and they're not using it. The goal is, I always say less is more. You don't want to overkill something that's not going to be used. Even today I was talking to somebody earlier about utilizing a tool to be able to scan all the metadata and see all the unused fields that were created at one point in time that are just sitting out there and untouched for a long time. So, we have to get rid of that technical debt. So, my approach and my recommendation or suggestion is for people to really partner with who they're building it for so that they can get the buy-in, get feedback. "Does it work? What would you like to see? Does the user interface still, is that intuitive?" I feel like with the new Lightning design pages, Mike, we grew up on Classic, remember that? Mike: Oh, I know. We've called it a few other things too, like Aloha. But yeah, Classic. I remember describing to my users, Salesforce is like the Amazon interface because at the time Amazon had those tabs. The world has gotten away from tabs on websites now. Denise Carbone: They have. Mike: We're too fancy for that. Denise Carbone: When I log into something I'm like, "Wait, where do I go?" So, the intuitiveness of some of these apps and the design is escaping the newer, what's being published today. But it's really, you want to make sure whatever you're building is going to be usable, it's intuitive. All the things like practical foundational serum, best practices should always be applied, and I feel like it's really partnering with who you're...
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Slack Is Redefining the Salesforce Admin Role
09/18/2025
Slack Is Redefining the Salesforce Admin Role
Today on the Salesforce Admins Podcast, we talk to Nicole Pomponio, Director of Delivery Management and Operations at SaltClick. Join us as we chat about how admins can unlock the full potential of Slack in Salesforce. You should for the full episode, but here are a few takeaways from our conversation with Nicole Pomponio. Why Slack is changing what it means to be an admin If you’re planning on coming to Dreamforce this year (or catching it at home), you’re probably going to hear a lot about new ways of combining Agentforce and Slack. That’s why I’m excited I got a chance to sit down with Nicole for this episode and have a conversation about her Dreamforce presentation. Nicole is the Director of Delivery Management and Operations at SaltClick, a consultancy for Salesforce and Slack, so she’s eager to find new ways to get the most out of both platforms. The ever-deepening integration between Salesforce and Slack means there are all sorts of new ways to connect users with data. As Nicole explains, all this means that the entire idea of what an admin can do is becoming more and more expansive. Getting organizational buy-in for Slack If your organization isn’t using Slack, how do you get the buy-in you need to overcome inertia? And if you are using Slack, how do you get the most out of it? Nicole is an admin, but she’s also a decision-maker at SaltClick, and when she puts on her leadership hat, she wants to hear about business problems and possible solutions. So the key to getting buy-in is to reposition Slack from something that sends messages to something that can solve real business problems. “I think the magic of Slack is that when you're using it and when you're using it right, it's easily adopted,” Nicole says, “you don’t have to sell it because when you use it, you showcase it.” For example, identify how many meetings can be eliminated with a dedicated channel on Slack, or show how much you can simplify your team’s workflow with the Jira integration. Tips, tricks, and best practices for Slack As Nicole explains, it’s helpful to establish some rules of the road for how your organization will use Slack. Here are a few tips to get started: Have consistent naming conventions for channels. SaltClick uses prefixes to keep things organized: #ext for external channels, #int for internal channels, and #salt for fun stuff like #salt-babies. Let your users know how to organize things for themselves, especially how to leave or mute a channel that they don’t need to use every day. Make a channel for dedicated Slack support, so you can quickly help folks who get stuck. Establish guidelines for what Slack etiquette means at your organization and any emojis you’re using. Make space for fun, but mostly on a different channel from work. Make sure to check out Nicole’s Dreamforce presentation, in-person or online. And don’t forget to subscribe to the Salesforce Admins Podcast so you never miss an episode. Podcast swag Learn more Salesforce Admins Podcast Episode: Salesforce Admins Podcast Episode: Salesforce Admins Blog: Salesforce Admins Blog: Admin Trailblazers Group Social Full show transcript Mike: Slack-first doesn't have to mean Slack-only. And today's guest, Nicole Pomponio, tells us why. Nicole is the delivery and operations manager at SaltClick, and she's going to tell us, Salesforce admins, how we can unlock the full potential of Slack and Salesforce. In addition, Nicole shares her journey from accidental admin to leadership, and she gives us some insight into building intentional channel structure, integrating external platforms, like Jira, and reshaping the admin role in this new very connected era. So whether you're Slack-curious or already swimming in salty channels, you're going to walk away with some ideas you can use. And with that, let's get Nicole on the podcast. So Nicole, welcome to the podcast. Nicole Pomponio: Thank you so much for having me, Mike. Super excited to be here. Mike: I'm excited for everything that's coming up for Dreamforce. Last week we got done talking about navigating flow errors as an administrator, and the irony is I had to do a workshop and navigate my own flow error. So it's fortuitous the way things happen sometimes when you report a podcast. Nicole Pomponio: It was meant to be. It was meant to be. Mike: But Slack is a thing, and Slack's been a thing for a while, and you're going to present about Salesforce channels inside Slack. Before we talk about that, let's learn a little bit about you, Nicole. Tell us what you do in your everyday life and how you got into the Salesforce ecosystem. Nicole Pomponio: Absolutely. I have been in the Salesforce ecosystem for about 14 plus years. I stopped counting because it makes me feel old. Got started reporting, and it grew from there. I was lucky enough to become a solo accidental admin, and then the opportunities just spun up from there. My day-to-day life right now, I manage delivery and operations over at SaltClick. We're a consultancy for Salesforce and Slack, so I get to work with very bright people building out super fun solutions for customers and ourselves, and that's Salesforce and Slack together, which also gets me very excited. Mike: I reached the same kind of milestone where my Salesforce experience, somebody said, oh, it's old enough that it could have graduated from high school. Nicole Pomponio: Oh, ouch. Mike: Yeah, burn. Yours at least has a learner's permit. Nicole Pomponio: I'm almost driving, yeah. Mike: Right, almost driving. Nicole Pomponio: I'm almost driving. Mike: There's no segue to talk about Slack and driving. Things you shouldn't do while driving. Nicole Pomponio: There you go. Mike: Have your phone and use Slack. Why do admins need to discover channels in Slack? Nicole Pomponio: It's such a great timely question, Mike. For me, there's no better time because Slack is being positioned in front of Salesforce, and I know we just aged ourselves a little bit, but it's really the first time that I've seen that happen and seen it done in a really meaningful way. So from my perspective, we're starting to see a really close merge of Slack, this communication powerhouse, with Salesforce and having the ability to understand and navigate both right now is going to be such an amazing opportunity, and I think it starts to rewrite the narrative of what an admin is. Mike: Oh, how so? Nicole Pomponio: An admin, I think it's been changing over the years. If we look at what a Salesforce admin historically was, we're creating workflows, we're navigating some fields, some page layouts, and then we're growing from there. We're working with flows, and we're starting to dip our toe into becoming developers maybe, if we want to take that path. And now it's merging more with other platforms. As a Salesforce admin, I need to also understand connected platforms, how to maybe connect to different systems. So over the course of, I think rapidly the past three years, what an admin has been I think is no longer just those foundational Salesforce elements. It's really starting to evolve. So I see that happening too with Slack, so bridging the gap a little bit, expanding out to other systems. So I do think it's shifting, and Slack has helped shaping that. Mike: I mean, I always look at how many meetings are people in. And I remember when Salesforce required Slack. Of course, we had a lot of collaboration tools, and organizations have a lot of collaboration tools. With channels, does the collaboration tool become the channel, or how does it really narrowly define what some of the users are looking for in terms of supplemental data outside of what's on the record? Nicole Pomponio: That Slack channel, now merging with Salesforce, of course, we've got Salesforce channels, really is that collaboration. It's a point where teams are coming together. They're not having to wait for that weekly meeting. I'm not having to wait for my monthly meeting, my weekly meeting. I can work async in Slack, but all of that information is being condensed and surfaced in that Slack channel, so it's easier for us to find what we're looking for. Everything stays together. If we're using threads like we should, all of those answers are within one thread. We're seeing associated files. And now with Salesforce channels, we're seeing that Salesforce data as well in details tabs and related lists. Everything's right there surfaced and condensed for us, so it really creates an efficiency that I don't think we've seen before. Mike: Do you feel in terms of broadening the reach and looking at other platforms, I mean at Salesforce we look at Slack and Salesforce is really just the platform, how have you navigated working with others in your organization to integrate platforms into Salesforce? Nicole Pomponio: It's one of my favorite questions. Mike: Ooh. Nicole Pomponio: I love to bring things into Slack. I really want to, and this is a little bit selfish of me, I just want to be in Slack. I'm biased heavily here. So the more that I can bring in, I think the better it's going to be for me. But also our teams. We talk about Slack being our work operating system and wanting to do more in the flow of work, all these buzzwords and phrases we hear. What does that really mean? It's bringing those systems in, whether it's just the data or it's actually actions and connecting out too. So I think the example that is top of mind for me, because I'm in it constantly, is Jira. So I want to connect with Jira through Slack so that I can create issues, I can update issues. I just get things done faster with pulling in those external systems, the data, but now the actions too, right? Mike: Right. Nicole Pomponio: Which that gets me really excited because if we're talking about our agentic era, then if I start to think about the data that's available to me and the actions I could potentially do, I think natural next step is can I get an agent to do them for me? Which, if we're talking about efficiency, frees up my time for the higher level things. I love to spend my time with people. So I know that was a long way from connecting systems and bringing things in, but it becomes my favorite question because we can start to do so much when we connect systems that we're using every day and when we're actioning in those systems too. Mike: Well I, just for clarity's sake, I prefer the long scenic route of the answer, not the short, short route. Nicole Pomponio: Oh, good. Oh, good. Yeah, mine are long. Mike: Drive around the block, got to see everything, take the long way. Sunday afternoon cruise in the convertible. Nicole Pomponio: Perfect. Mike: So one question I have, and this goes back to maybe I was an admin in a different era, it sounds like your organization is bought in and your leadership is bought in to let's make Slack the interface for a lot of our work. Is that true? Nicole Pomponio: Yeah, we are Slack-first. Mike: Okay. Did you sell that vision or was that a consensus that came down from leadership that you embraced and get to work towards? Nicole Pomponio: I mean, Mike, I would love to take all of the credit for this. Sometimes I do. Just kidding. I don't. It's a top-down, bottom-up type of approach. I think the magic of Slack is that when you're using it and when you're using it right, it's easily adopted, and I don't have to sell it, if you will, because I use it, I showcase it, and then everyone sees the power of that. My favorite thing is the light bulb moments. So the more that we can do that, the easier that story becomes. But I will say when I started at SaltClick, it was almost three years ago, time flies, it was already heavily being used, and one of my predecessors was really starting to push on what is Slack, how can we use it? And I really gravitated toward that, so I just started to pick that up, training sessions for folks, really empowering people and pushing them to Slack's help articles because they're amazing. So it just became a natural conversation for us. And now it's people coming to me saying, hey, can we do this with Slack? I just posted something about Gearset and getting notifications and then linking out to pull requests to understand what's being validated, what's failing. That wasn't my idea. Shout out to Jacob on my team because he knows that we can use Slack for many different things, and he wants to make his own life easier. So it's become a natural conversation for us. What can we do in Slack, and how can we do it? People come to me with half-baked ideas. I love it, and then I just help get it to the finish line. I might have an idea I reach out to somebody about, but it is really all hands in on Slack. Mike: Okay, you win. You got the fun leadership. So let's play the opposite side of that coin. The admin's bought in, you, and you see the vision, you see the potential, but perhaps leadership, they're busy. They don't pay attention 24/7, like you do, to the innovation that's coming out of Salesforce and Slack. But you know your users and you know the pains and the gaps within the organization. What would your advice be for an admin that's maybe going to go to Dreamforce or maybe watched a YouTube video online about Slack or just knows that their organization has Slack, but it's like, to me it's like Slack's like a Ferrari and you use it to go to the store and buy a gallon of milk every week and you don't use it to its full potential. What would your advice be for those admins to get the organization to flip to where you are at? Nicole Pomponio: I think that's such a great question. And just to be fair for the previous question, I am on our leadership team, so that was- Mike: So you have sway there too. Nicole Pomponio: ...it's an unfair advantage for me. But if I put my leadership hat on, what I'm looking for is not just the problem but the solution. So for folks that are trying to navigate, well, how do I really showcase this, it's really difficult sometimes to get enough data to show ROI. But if you go to leaders in your organization, you say, hey, I see this problem. I think that Slack can solve this for us, can fill this gap, here's how we could do it, I don't know many leaders that would just say, hard pass. I don't want to even look at that. I think taking that initiative would really show that you're invested and showing the solution to that problem I think would be phenomenal. I think as leaders we tend to see problems and we have potential solutions, but we really want input and buy-in from the people that are using the tools, right? Mike: Right. Nicole Pomponio: It shouldn't just be the Nicole show. I want to definitely understand that it's going to add value for folks. So if you are one of those people that are really trying to showcase what Slack can do, I would suggest going to Slack sessions at Dreamforce. I would suggest joining the Slack community and making some friends in there. I'll definitely say hi to you, but really poke around at here's a problem I'm trying to solve, what's a way I could do it With Slack? I know I would be willing to help folks, but anyone in the community would be willing to help too. And I bet you, in some of the sessions that you're going to, you're going to see a lot of use cases and a lot of ways to solve those problems. So that's what comes to mind for me when I think, how do I reposition this tool that might just be seen as a way to send messages to something that can actually solve some business problems for us. Mike: I mean, I've felt that way. So you opened up a whole other can of questions when you said you're on leadership. I think that's incredibly awesome that you're a Salesforce admin and you're in leadership. For admins that aren't in leadership, was this just the way that your organization operates, the admin is part of leadership, or how did you get that seat at the table? Nicole Pomponio: Such a great question. Many of your questions are great questions. Mike: I try really hard. I'm thinking of hosting a podcast where I ask questions. What do you think? Nicole Pomponio: I think this would be a great journey for you [inaudible 00:14:58]. Mike: Okay, we'll see how it works out. Nicole Pomponio: I think in our organization I have the flexibility and opportunity to be the Slack owner as well as participate in being that Salesforce admin as well. It's a shared responsibility, so it's not just me doing it. But because of the experiences I've had, not only being a Salesforce admin, being a Salesforce BA, being the doer and the navigator in different business units in my past life, I've been able to take that with me wherever I go. So it is a gift that I'm able to bring at SaltClick to be able to do multiple things, but I really enjoy coaching others on that too. So for me in leadership, it's been very powerful because I can understand how we can use our systems to really solve our business needs. And again, SaltClick gives me the opportunity to continue to do the things that bring me joy. Mike: That's a really good, really good answer. See good questions, good answers. On the subject of Slack, because I'd love to know, how often do you communicate with your users broadly? Do you have a dedicated Slack channel? Do you run help through Slack? Is there a place for them to ask questions? How do you run user engagement on your end? Nicole Pomponio: So from the SaltClick lens, we have fun channels. We have learning channels, training channels. We have chit-chat channels. We all have some salty channels as well because we like to have fun. We have Salty Babies and Salty Pets. I'm a jokester, and I can't help but bring corny jokes into every aspect of my life. And then as a Slack community group leader, I have a channel in our Slack workspace as well. So from the Slack community lens, the engagement there is really answering questions that come in. Sometimes you're going to get a meme. Sometimes you'll get some help articles and some directions and a path forward. And it's really posting consistently there to help people understand that you're there for them, that you can bring them information in the flow of their lives that's going to help them. On the SaltClick side, it really is about trying to organize because I did some kind of research pretty recently to understand how many channels are we in, how many messages and files and all kinds of stuff are we sending around. It's a lot. I think on average people are in 100 or 200 channels, so the noise can become pretty robust. You want to try and organize that and make it meaningful. So really helping navigate with channel descriptions. What are we even doing in this channel, what's our goal, what can you expect? Letting people know that they don't have to be in a channel. They can exit it. They can leave. They can set their own notifications. I really like to advocate for not only the way that we have our channels set up, but the way that they can help themselves in that experience as well. But we have all kinds of fun. I think my favorite is probably the Salty Babies one. Mike: I won't dig into that because who knows where that goes. I would like to know because, and we have this a little bit at Salesforce, did you enforce or did you... Enforce sounds bad. I don't have a different word for it. Parameter, I don't know, fence. Did you put out guidelines? That feels the best. Nicole Pomponio: Guidelines feels right. Mike: You put out guidelines. Guidepost, yeah. Because people can name channels whatever they want, did you put out a naming thing so that people know... You mentioned salty channels and chit-chat channels, and boy, say that one five times fast. Nicole Pomponio: I can't. I can't. Mike: I will. I'll just get myself kicked off the air. And work channels, and we have that at Salesforce too, did you...
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Navigating Flow Errors as a New Salesforce Admin
09/11/2025
Navigating Flow Errors as a New Salesforce Admin
Today on the Salesforce Admins Podcast, we talk to David Simpson, Salesforce Admin at the 1916 Company. Join us as we chat about his process for troubleshooting Flow errors and his unexpected path into the Salesforce ecosystem. You should for the full episode, but here are a few takeaways from our conversation with David Simpson. Why can Flow errors be so intimidating? If you’ve ever received an emergency ticket from a user because they’ve encountered a Flow error, you know just how cryptic they can be. It’s not always clear at first glance what’s going on, or what your user can do to fix it. What’s more, if you’re hearing about an error from a user, that means it’s made it to production. So now you need to start worrying about your testing and anything else that might pop up. And oh yeah, you need to fix the dang thing, too. That’s why I was so excited to sit down this week with David Simpson. He’s doing a Dreamforce presentation about how to better navigate Flow errors and how to prevent them from happening in the first place. Five steps to resolve a Flow error David breaks down the process of fixing a Flow error into five steps: Gather information about the Flow error. What’s in the error notification? Is it specific to a particular user or record? Try to replicate the error in a sandbox environment. Find the fix. Test the fix in your sandbox, and test for any similar scenarios. Push your fix to production. David emphasizes the importance of communicating with stakeholders at every stage of your solve. You don’t need to share every single detail, but you want to make sure your user knows that you’ve identified the error, how long it will take to fix it, and if there are any workarounds in the meantime. Reach out to the community We also discuss David’s path from finance into the Salesforce ecosystem. He started out as a staff accountant, but when he was asked to take over some of the Salesforce administration duties, he realized he loved working with the platform far more than burying his head in spreadsheets. Finally, I ask David about his top tips for getting better at solving Flow errors. He points to the Trailblazer community and Salesforce help articles as two of his best resources. However, he also suggests getting hands-on in a sandbox by trying to build things that might break. It’s a low-risk way to flex your problem-solving skills and will give you valuable experience for when a real error ends up in production. Make sure to listen to our full conversation for more from David about how to solve Flow errors. And don’t forget to subscribe to the Salesforce Admins Podcast so you never miss an episode. Podcast swag Learn more Admin Trailblazers Group Social Full show transcript Mike: Ever had a flow error throw your day off track? You're not alone. This week on the podcast, we welcome David Simpson, Salesforce Admin at the 1916 Company who's bringing his session from Dreamforce navigating flow errors as a new admin right into your old earbuds. David's going to walk us through his process for troubleshooting errors, he shares tips for smarter flow testing, and we even talk about his unexpected path from finance into the Salesforce ecosystem. Now, if you've ever stared down an Apex exception email and wondered what is this trying to tell me? I promise you this episode is for you. So with that, let's get David on the podcast. So David, welcome to the podcast. David Simpson: Thank you for having me. Mike: Let's get started with what you do in the Salesforce ecosystem and the topic you're going to talk about at Dreamforce this year. David Simpson: Sounds good. My name is David Simpson. I am a Salesforce Administrator at the 1916 Company. I have been an admin for a little over eight years now and a flownatic for over five years now, and my session is Navigating Flow Errors as a New Salesforce Administrator. Mike: Okay, do you have a robe? David Simpson: I had a cape from being an awesome admin back at Dreamforce 2018, but that has been lost in multiple moves. Mike: Okay, well I'll say this publicly. I have an extra one in my basement and I'm going to get it after this podcast. You getting the cape back. David Simpson: Sounds good to me. Mike: So there we got that solved and all 35 people who are listening are like, cool, David's getting a cape, what else can I learn? But I saw your session. So navigating flow errors as a new administrator. I think for me, I've built demos for Flow. I am nowhere near Jennifer Lee level, Jennifer Lee's admin evangelist on my team. I think she knows more about Flow than Flow knows about itself. But I've always, I'll run into that error and be like, cool. I don't know Jennifer, what do I do? And for those people that don't have Jennifers, why are flow errors daunting? David Simpson: Flow errors can be daunting first off because the error message itself can be very vague. You're dealing with developer query language and it might not be incredibly clear on first glance what the error is. So you have this issue where your end user or your stakeholder is stopped in doing their job, and they get some cryptic error that they don't know how they can fix it and they are now looking to you and now you have to decipher this cryptic error message. So it can be pretty daunting even when you have experience in the Salesforce ecosystem to know exactly where to go and what to do to solve that error. Mike: So when do you find... New administrators, even experienced administrators get flow errors. Are you focused on when users get the flow error or when the admin is building a flow and testing it? David Simpson: So it's actually both. My session is planning on covering what happens when you encounter an error, more specifically once it's live in your production environment and maybe somebody has encountered it and maybe your testing didn't cover that aspect. How you can handle that, how you can troubleshoot it and get to the bottom of it. But then also how you can do some more comprehensive testing when building your flows. So if you get those errors, you can adjust them immediately or you can read those errors and understand what you have to do without going through a bunch of help documents online and figuring out what that code means. Mike: Yeah. So let's take us through David's thought process when you get a flow error. What happens? David Simpson: So the first thing I do is I go see how I was notified of the flow error. If it is an Apex exception email, I'll read through the Apex exception email and try and see, okay, who caused this? What's the record? What step in the process did it fail? And just all of that information that's in those emails. Alternatively, if it happened to have been triggered via a Flows fault path, I will then investigate that notification. But then what I try to do is I first see what the error message is, if it's something that I'm familiar with, if it seems like it might be related to a validation rule or permissions or just general access, I'll see if I can address that quickly. But if it's something a little bit more convoluted or harder to decipher, normally what I like to do is to take that same flow and we have sandboxes, so I'll go into the sandbox and I'll just try to replicate those steps. I will perhaps use the flow debug and run it as the user who encountered the issue. Maybe I'll try and recreate the record if it feels like a particularly daunting error and then just run through the flow and see where it fails. Those are normally my processes and through that I will eventually encounter the cause of the error. And then at that point it's just going through the process of fixing the error in the flow, performing more tests to make sure that I've covered that as well as any other potential unexpected issues that might arise from the change and then getting that pushed out, all the while communicating to whoever encountered the issue that this is being taken care of, this is the ETA, and if possible, any workarounds for that fix and error. Mike: Wow, you're better than the local mechanic that works on your car. Here's my car, it's making a noise. Three weeks later, you find anything out? David Simpson: Yeah. With Salesforce, it's really nice because there is so much information that it can almost seem a little bit overwhelming, but that information can be used to get to the problem a lot faster. We're not getting just some generic error that says, oh, an issue occurred, good luck. We're getting a more specific error that is pointing us where we need to go. We just need to be able to translate that into human readable language in order to solve it. Mike: Yeah, so I'm thinking of this. You've mentioned you've been an admin for eight years now, that's a decent time in the seat. How has working with Flow changed over time for you? David Simpson: It has gotten so much better, so much easier, but also more complicated. I remember just a few years ago having to perform a process builder that triggers an auto-launched flow that might have some issues accessing certain records or a collection of records. And throughout the years with all of these releases and updates, it's just gotten a lot easier and more intuitive. A great example would be just the introduction of an auto-layout in a flow. Being able to see that clear process and order of operations to the flows, it's really helped. But also with all of these features, it does get a little bit more complex. What is the best element to put on your flow in order for this to not only run but run efficiently? Is it multiple update records? Is it doing a loop and an assignment and then an update? Is it using Transform? There's so many options and there's no particular right way to do a lot of stuff, which is really freeing. You can get super creative with these solutions and I think that that's been an awesome thing. And not to mention testing, going back to the flow errors. The recent introduction of an enhanced flow debug has really made my life a lot easier. I can see so much more detail in what's going on in my flows than what I just built. I can see the technical specs behind it, and that's really helped me narrow down what exactly needs to be done or what needs to be fixed in my flows when I do encounter an issue. Mike: I'm going to say this respectfully. You sound like you have a lot of technical knowledge coming into the role of Salesforce Admin. David Simpson: Oh, well thank you. Mike: What was your history before being a Salesforce Admin? David Simpson: Before I was a Salesforce Admin, I actually worked in accounting and finance. I was a staff accountant. Mike: Oh, detail. Hello? David Simpson: Yeah. Very process-oriented, very consistent in my day to day, and I at one point made a transition from being a staff accountant to a financial analyst, which was just essentially more spreadsheets. But during that time, my supervisor said, "Hey, I administer our Salesforce instance here. I think you'd be good at it. I need some help. Our professional services team, they put their opportunities in and we need to clean up their financials at the end of each month, but you should probably know the system in which they're putting this in." So he gave me an admin license and told me go on Trailhead, start learning some of the beginner stuff, and I just instantly fell in love with it. I love the problem solving aspect. I love the ability that there's so much you can do and build, that Salesforce is just a canvas of process creativity that I said, you know what? I don't think I want to do finance related work anymore. I want to do Salesforce full time. Mike: Wow. Okay. So that's another podcast I'm going to have you on because I want to talk about career path. I think that'd be really cool, but I can see now the structured way that Flows work really could appeal to an accounting mindset. Is that the first feature that you really gravitated to? David Simpson: Interesting that you asked that. It did take me a few years to get into the flow space and the automation space. When I became an admin, the first automations I touched were Workflow and a little bit of Process Builder, but I was really moreso focused on user access and just general custom object setup. It wasn't until a few years into being an admin that my manager, I had switched jobs, he said, "I need you to build this automation and it's not going to work in Process Builder. It's not going to work in Workflow. You'll have to do Flow." And I was very intimidated at the point. But I had a mentor who walked me through flows that they had built and it just clicked. It was so logical and just made so much sense while still being flexible that it was, I didn't go back to Workflows and Process Builders unless I absolutely needed to. Mike: Yeah. David Simpson: So yeah, it took a few years, but once I was on the flow train, I could not stop. Mike: Yeah, no, I get you. I remember seeing Flow in its early early days back in 2012 when you used to have to actually download software to use it and the various iterations that it went through. But it's very useful now I think because of the visual aspect of it. David Simpson: Yes. Mike: I'm a very visual person and I've always, that's the thing that I loved about Process Builder was it looked like a process flow that you would diagram, and I'm glad that Flow has caught back up to that now. David Simpson: Yeah. Mike: Where do you stand on, so new admins, building flows, I've seen all kinds of flows. What's your process on how complicated you get a flow and testing it as you get more complicated? David Simpson: Well, the complexity of a flow, I try to start by being simple first and only using some basic decision elements and update or create records elements, something that is really just a simple if/then statement and then add the complexities as the business requirements change. But with every single change that is made, I just test. That debug button is right there on the flow and is so easy to use. You just click it, pick a record or put your inputs in and let it run and just make sure that you're seeing everything that should be happening with each step. It's like cooking. You should be tasting as you go to make sure that nothing unexpected is happening. And you can do the same with the flow. You add a new element, you click the debug and you test it. You add a couple of decisions or a loop, click that debug and test it. So it can get as complicated or as complex as you need it to be. But you can also just start very simple and you can test along the way and it will come out fine, just provided that you're being proactive in your testing. Mike: Yeah, no, sometimes I just dive in, I just want to build the whole thing and then it throws a million errors and I'm like, I should have built this more step-by-step. What was I thinking? It's the reason when they build houses, they home inspectors come at every stage. There's a reason for that. Let's talk about screen flows. I'm sure you touch on them in your session. I personally think they're really cool. I'm from, I was a Salesforce admin back in '06, and I remember thinking if only I could do a screen pop that walked people through filling out an account page or something, and now I could right? My fear if somebody turned me loose as an admin or I would do screen flows for everything. What is your decisioning on should I make this screen flow or not? David Simpson: I am incredibly pro screen flow, much like yourself. In our company, we use screen flows for almost everything that requires end user interaction. The idea is to provide our users only what they need to interact with or change or take action on, and nothing beyond that for both an efficiency sake and also to make sure that there's no confusion or there's potential bad data. So we utilize opportunities to process our sales. We actually use Salesforce as our main point of sale, and when they go to close out their sales, they click a button which triggers a screen flow that says "Have you gotten all of your tasks in order for this opportunity? Do you have the opportunity products added? Are they available for sale? Have you synced this opportunity to our external system?" And then all they have to do is just fill out a few fields, probably less than a dozen throughout the entire screen flow, and then it completes the sale for them. Similarly, when they want to create a brand new sale, they click a button on the account that creates a screen flow instead of the new opportunity standard action. Because it has many less fields on it, they only need to fill out, okay, who the customer is, what's the deal name, and then some just basic additional info that our customer experience team likes to have. So it's a very streamlined process and we find that it not only saves them clicks, but it saves them time and gets them back to helping out their clients a lot faster. So I'm very much screen flow. I just gave an example about opportunities, but we use it throughout the entire Salesforce org. Mike: Yeah, no, I'm with you. Pop a flow for everything. That'd be what I would do. So you're going to present this at Dreamforce next month. For people going, they'll see the presentation, not everybody goes and they listen. For people not going, but still really want to dig into what are things I should understand or how should I navigate flow errors as an administrator, what are some resources that helped you learn how to read through those error messages and understand them as a Salesforce administrator? David Simpson: So the first thing I would suggest is the Trailblazer community. There are so many helpful people on those forums, and if you encounter an issue, you can post a question and in a matter of minutes you'll get a response. But they're also just generally friendly people and they just want to see you succeed and they will help you out. So that is an incredible resource. Just the community that is built up around Salesforce and administrators is so great, and I highly recommend that if you ever run into an issue that you check out the Trailblazer community. Additionally, the Salesforce help articles have been super helpful for me. They're a little bit more technical. They're more about the steps that a process or a system can do, but those are also great for getting a foundational knowledge. And then the third and final resource that I would say is just build and break in a sandbox. Just try to make things that don't work and see what happens, and then try to fix them. Because it's a sandbox and it's not real data you're not at risk of causing any issues. But I learned the most by making mistakes, by building a flow and maybe not testing it thoroughly enough or forgetting a field or forgetting a step where I get a certain record and then seeing what that error is and then adjusting that. That generally happens to all of us eventually, but try and do it deliberately and see what error results you get back. You'll be surprised to find that they're the same errors that you get when you're not trying to make mistakes. So a great way to learn is just by simply doing. Mike: Yeah, I couldn't agree more. I'm from the days when you used to get a little help box and you just hit this most frustrating error and try it again, try it again, try it again. It goes back to that was it Thomas Edison, he didn't find one way to invent the light bulb, he found 99 ways to not invent the light bulb or something like that. I feel like we're all that way. I've found 99 different ways to make a flow not work out of trial and error. And sometimes that's all it takes. But you can only read so much and then you have to actually go do and try things out and poke around in the org. So last thing that's on my mind, and I wonder. AI in the last few years has just...
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How Can Admins Use Slack to Manage AI Agents More Easily?
09/04/2025
How Can Admins Use Slack to Manage AI Agents More Easily?
Today on the Salesforce Admins Podcast, we talk to Jim Ray, Director of Developer Relations and Advocacy at Slack. Join us as we chat about enhancements to Workflow Builder, the Slack features everyone should be using, and the future of AI and Slack. You should for the full episode, but here are a few takeaways from our conversation with Jim Ray. Usability upgrades to core Slack features Jim and his team have been improving the core Slack experience. “We’ve really been focusing on those little paper cuts, the smaller features that just never quite made it into the next release,” he says. So essentially, Slack is a little better everywhere. One area they’ve focused on is Workflow Builder. In particular, they’ve added new branching functionality—allowing admins to create conditional paths like “if/then” logic. They’ve also been hard at work upgrading canvases and lists. With new data like AI-generated meeting notes, canvases provide a central place for all the relevant information. Jim also urges you to check out lists as a sort of “semi-database” for data you want handy in Slack. Slack’s AI vision centralizes agent interactions For Jim, Slack is one of the best tools to interact with and fully take advantage of the AI agents you build with Agentforce. It’s already the place your team communicates with each other, so why not be able to loop in AI teammates? “In the same way that Slack is the single place where every person in your organization is communicating, now it's the place where you're all working with those agents,” Jim says. And so his team is looking at how Slack can bring together every AI agent your team uses, whether they’re built in Agentforce or another third-party platform. Dreamforce 2025 will spotlight Salesforce-Slack integration I asked Jim for a sneak preview of what he has in store for Dreamforce 2025, and he did not disappoint. We’ve come a long way with tools like Salesforce channels and the ability to deploy an Agentforce agent directly to Slack. Now his team is working on ways to deepen the integration. So look for improvements to search and embedded Salesforce data in the coming year. There are so many more great insights into how you can get the most out of Slack in the Agentforce era, so be sure to listen to our full conversation with Jim. And be sure to subscribe to the Salesforce Admins Podcast so you never miss an episode. Podcast swag Learn more Salesforce Admins Podcast Episode: Admin Trailblazers Group Social Full show transcript Mike: Welcome to the Salesforce Admins Podcast. This week we're catching up with Jim Ray from Slack because it's very conversational. He's going to walk us through what's new in Slack from major releases that you may or may not have been paying attention to on Workflow Builder, Lists, and Canvases to, of course, all of the latest around AI and Agentforce. Plus, we're going to talk about what's coming at Dreamforce this year and how admins and developers like yourself can get the most out of Slack. So whether you're all in on automation or just exploring Slack's potential, I promise you there's something here for you. So you've already got those earbuds in? Let's get Jim on the podcast. So Jim, welcome back to the podcast. Jim Ray: Mike, thanks so much for having me. It's a pleasure to be back. I'm excited to talk to admins and maybe we'll talk a little bit about what's coming at Dreamforce. Mike: I mean all the things, because it's not that I didn't want you back sooner. It's just a really big platform and there's so many things to talk about. Jim Ray: Of course. Mike: But we use Slack every day at Salesforce and a lot of our customers do too. So it's been a while since we've chatted, but what's some of the big stuff that Slack has come out with this year that admins should be excited for if they haven't been paying attention? Jim Ray: Oh, that's such a great question, and obviously we use Slack every day as well, and nobody uses Slack quite like Slack uses Slack. Mike: Oh. Jim Ray: And I think that's probably true for Salesforce in some ways too. But we've been really excited to talk to some of our admins. We're continuing to learn more about the Salesforce developers in particular, and so always excited to hear about the use cases there. A few exciting things that have come out recently that I think will be pretty interesting. So our Workflow Builder product, so this is our no-code automation product that's built right into Slack, I think that's probably something that a lot of Salesforce admins and Slack admins are using. I like to think of Workflow Builder as the front door to the platform. And it's certainly adjacent to the platform in a lot of ways. So we've had some really great development happening in Workflow Builder. Something I'm actually really proud of is we've been really focusing on the core user experience of Workflow Builder. We've got a whole team that's working on something that internally we call Back to Basics, which is really just all about focusing on those little paper cuts or the smaller features that just never quite made it into the next release. So they've been building that out. So hopefully just the experience of using Workflow Builder is a little bit nicer, which is something that we always aim for. Mike: I never found it bad. Jim Ray: It's not that it's been bad, it's just that as the- Mike: To be fair. Jim Ray: Yeah, it's a great point. As the surface area of Workflow Builder has grown, we've added lots of new functionality and we've just needed to go back and polish here and spit-shine there. Mike: Sure. I mean, for me as an admin, it was the most intuitive thing that I could immediately jump into and kind of feel like I made a difference when we got Slack and when we started setting up channels. Because I think you probably hear this a lot, but to me the fallacy of, well, Slack is just where we communicate. No, you can actually guide the communication, and we do that with our team to help get the right information to the right spots. Because there's data and then there's contextual data, which is the conversation, and that's where we use a lot of workflows. And I was almost overwhelmed by the number of options that I had on ways and things I could do with the conversation or the input, like we use it, like an input form. I was like, "Wow." Jim Ray: Right, exactly. Mike: "Oh my God, now I got to go back and rethink this." It wasn't something where I was diving into it and thinking, "Okay, well, I'll just figure out what I got and just work with what I had." It was showing up to the grocery store and being like, "Oh, so you guys really do have everything? All right, cool." Kind of wasn't expecting that. I was expecting three kinds of cheeses and you got a whole cheese counter. Jim Ray: That's really great to hear. And even with the addition of things like Lists and Canvases, which are some features that we're continuing to expand on, we released those a while ago and obviously we use them a ton internally, but we're hearing from our customers that they're putting more and more of their mission-critical data. Canvases are fantastic because it's a really lightweight form of documents. You're not overwhelmed with all the different formatting options, but they're still really quite powerful, still a great way to capture information and add context to your channels. And my team uses them with Notes and with some of the AI generated notes that are happening within huddles and things like that. But I think Lists are another place that we're seeing a ton of value with things like Workflow Builder. So you were saying you've got an input form, but where are you going to put that once somebody has filled out the form? Lists are a perfect place for that. And again, it's not a full-blown database or even as powerful as something like an Excel or a Google Sheet, but if you just need to capture that data and you want it native inside of Slack, something that's searchable inside of Slack, something that you can easily add workflows to, I love Lists. And so they're both really fantastic features. Mike: I haven't used Lists. I can't speak for them yet, but I have used Canvases. Jim Ray: If you don't need something as full-featured as Jira, for instance. Mike: Maybe that's why. Jim Ray: My team, we use Lists a lot to track the projects that we're working on. We don't need a full suite of Jira tools. We're not working [inaudible 00:06:19] and things like that. So it's actually a really great way to do some lightweight project management as well. Mike: Ooh, I like that. You said a magic word, AI. Jim Ray: Yes. Mike: So I feel like Slack's built for AI because AI everywhere is just conversation, and I'm like, "Well, naturally, that's Slack." So talk to me about Agentforce and AI and Slack. Jim Ray: Absolutely. Before I jump to AI, I do want to mention one more Workflow Builder feature- Mike: Oh, yeah. Jim Ray: ... that I want people to check out is this is probably the longest standing request, which is the ability to branch your workflows. Essentially think of them as an if statement or a case statement if you're a programmer. But this was, when we gave people the ability to start doing some automation, the first thing they said is, "Oh, I need to branch my automation." So if they hit this button, do this thing, and if they hit this button, do that thing. We have finally built that into the product. It's a really fantastic way to make your automations even more powerful. If you are a programmer or if you're a developer and you're building on the Slack platform, one thing that I like about the new branching feature is that you can actually handle a lot of the, for lack of a better word, validation that you would normally be doing on the back end. Now, you can do a lot of that on the front end inside of Workflow Builder itself. So quick plug for branches there, another fantastic feature that we rolled out to Workflow Builder. And it's going to make those workflows even more powerful, but now we're ready to talk AI. Mike: Yeah, no, that's good. I do like that. I kind of want to play with that now. Jim Ray: It's really great. So yeah, so with AI, obviously, and Mike, as you implied, Slack is the best place to interface with the agents that are popping up in every single application that we use. And in some ways this is a return to form for Slack and the Slack platform. So when Slack launched in 2014, part of the reason that we were able to be so successful is we were riding this wave of a few trends that were happening in the industry. One of them, I'm sure you remember, DevOps. And DevOps was hugely successful to Slack being successful because a lot of our earliest customers were startups, engineering-focused organizations, media organizations, places that understood kind of the basic premise of DevOps, and we could just plug Slack right into it. So many developers looked at Slack and they were like, "Oh, this will fit right into my GitHub pipeline or my Jenkins pipeline, and then I can just pipe messages right into Slack. I can have all my entire engineering team in a channel and they can all come take a look at this." But as the platform grew and evolved, we added all of these features for interactivity. We added Block Kit, which is our UI composition framework. And now that we have all of these large language model and other generative AI tools, it is kind of this return to form for the platform in many ways. And so 10 years ago, if you wanted to build a Slack app that interacted with you, it was almost like a command line more than anything. It wasn't a natural place to chat. You would kind of send off some commands and then wait for the response. It felt very much like using a terminal or a Unix command line or something like that. But now with all of these LLM tools that are being plugged into all of the various systems of record, Slack is of course the place to bring all of that into the same place where you're working with your colleagues. And that's kind of been the basic pitch of the platform for a long time. Mike: So I do want to touch on that because it's a thing that I've been thinking of a lot. And of course it's the admin podcast, but that doesn't mean that admins don't code. Jim Ray: Sure. Mike: Lots of admins code and they just choose to identify as admins. Some developers only code. I don't want the perception to be, well, Slack is just for admins because they don't have to write code to do anything. But I think as you sit and look at when you're working with your team, whatever, of stakeholders, it's an admin and a developer, especially at a large organization, probably an architect. There's a lot of roles involved. Slack can really interface with a lot of different products that you have across the enterprise. What do we do for admins that had to be like, "No, let me talk to my developer because Slack is very developer friendly"? When we say Slack is very developer friendly, what do we mean by that? Jim Ray: Well, I like to think that our platform, first and foremost, is just one that developers really like to use. Again, that was something that was really critical to the success of the platform pretty early on. It doesn't feel like developing on a piece of enterprise software. And so we would hear from these developers that were used to these massive Java stacks, or they had to use an SDK that they weren't familiar with, or even a programming language that they weren't familiar with. And the premise for the Slack platform from the very beginning, and this is still true today, is that you can bring whatever programming language you want to. We make some first party SDKs available, but you don't have to use those. We have some frameworks that are even a little bit higher level than the SDKs. Those are all available in Python, Java, and JavaScript, but you don't have to use them if you don't want to. We have some amazing community-developed SDKs and frameworks as well. So that's the initial thinking as to what makes developing on the Slack platform great. But then the other part is that you can do things with the Slack platform that really you couldn't do with other forms of communication. They just didn't make sense in the context of email, for example. Even if you wanted to use email as the ultimate endpoint, it kind of didn't make sense because an email inbox is a one-to-one relationship with every person in the organization. Well, there's no really good way to collaborate until you pull people into these channels. And so that was another part of Slack's big success we kind of created, and again, we were pulling from a lot of what was happening in the world at the time, but we pulled a lot of these ideas and we put them into this kind of channel-based interface. And now you bring groups of people together that are working on a similar project, similar feature. And then when you layer on top of that, the platform pieces, that's where it starts to get really powerful. So again, think about your engineering org within your organization. So you've got a team and they get an alert from somebody has pushed some code and the tests fail. Well, now everybody on that team can see why the tests failed. So the engineer who pushed the code, that test probably wouldn't have failed if they knew what the problem was. So another engineer that might have a different bit of context, oh, I just checked in this bit of code, that's probably why your tests are breaking, for example. They can see that. And so now you're maximizing that visibility. And so when we layer on these other tools, to bring us back to this AI, so now every tool that you're using in your organization, they're starting to add these agentic features. And we were talking about, so if you're an admin, well, Slack now becomes the place. Rather than having to administer an agent in every single platform that you use, you bring those agents into Slack, so now you have a single place to work with them. In the same place that Slack is the single place where every person in your organization is communicating, now it's the place where you're all working with those agents. And so we're not there yet. We're still working on it. Obviously Agentforce is the best place to, if you're just getting started with this and you have a ton of data inside of Salesforce, of course Agentforce is the place where you're going to go, maybe try out some of these agents built on top of your data. But as we're seeing many of our partners, many of the other SaaS tools that our customers are using, all of these agent features are being built on top of the systems of record that they manage. And so what we've got, we've made those same AI features available to everybody on the platform. So now anybody can build an agent that works inside of Slack. And if you're an admin, this is fantastic news because now you've just got one place to manage all of these. Mike: And we use agents a lot at Salesforce. It's kind of fun. Sometimes I don't know where to look for my approvals. Jim Ray: Yeah. Mike: One thing to look forward to, bury the lead there, Dreamforce, it's coming now. Jim Ray: Absolutely. Absolutely. Mike: They just announced the band. Are you going to go? Jim Ray: I have never made it. Usually, because I'm so swamped, I've never made it to see the show. Mike: I know. Jim Ray: But we've got two choices this year, I think. Is this the first time that there's going to be two different stages? Mike: I don't know. I feel like they're doing that now because there's a generation of us that are coming up in the years, and then there's a younger generation. I remember a couple Dreamforces ago, I didn't even know one of the opening acts. Jim Ray: Oh, boy. Mike: And I was like, "Oh, I didn't know what my parents feel like now when I was a kid, and be like, "But Mom, of course it's Michael Jackson." Jim Ray: Right, exactly. Mike: "Duh." And that happened. I'm with you though. I have been once to the concert because that year we had the admin keynote the first day and we could go and it was almost like, I don't know, a celebration for us because it's like, "Yay, our keynote's over, we can go." Jim Ray: Oh, nice. Mike: And it was fun because it was Foo Fighters. I don't know if you were around then. I can't remember the year, but it was the one year it felt like it was out in a field or somewhere. Jim Ray: I think that was our first year as an official Salesforce company. Mike: Okay. I went, we got in, it was like, "Okay, I really need something to eat." They had hamburgers and stuff. I had that. And I was like, "Oh, the stage is that way. Let's walk that way." We got to what we thought the stage was, it was a giant TV screen. Jim Ray: Oh, no. Mike: Because they had all these satellite stages. Jim Ray: Yeah, exactly. Mike: And I was like, "Oh, well, this isn't so bad." And it was Foo Fighters, which was awesome. It was one of the years that Dave Grohl broke his foot, and so he was in that really cool throne. But I mean, of all the people that could still put on a show, he put on a show. Jim Ray: Nice. Mike: And I looked over and I was like, "Well, no, it looks like the stage is over there." Long story short, we ended up walking to all three of the satellite stages and never found the main stage because we kept thinking we were. And I was like, "You know what? I think this is the point at which I need to stop going to the concerts because-" Jim Ray: Yeah, there you go. And so this year we have a choice between, and you were talking about that generational divide, so it'll be very obvious. We've got Metallica on one stage and then Benson Boone on the other. Mike: Yes. Yes. Jim Ray: I can definitely remember buying Metallica on cassette tape. Mike: Yeah. Yep. I used to buy Metallica stuff when you could go to the convenience store and...
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What Is True to the Core Deep Dive?
08/28/2025
What Is True to the Core Deep Dive?
Today on the Salesforce Admins Podcast, we talk to LeeAnne Rimel, Senior Director of Admin and Developer Strategic Content at Salesforce. Join us as we chat about True to the Core Deep Dive and how it will give Salesforce Admins more chances to engage with product leaders, ask questions, and influence the roadmap. You should for the full episode, but here are a few takeaways from our conversation with LeeAnne Rimel. True to the Core with a spin If you’ve been to a Dreamforce or TDX, you’re probably familiar with True to the Core. Typically, it’s a keynote session with Salesforce product leaders where you can get key insights and engage them in a Q&A. However, as LeeAnne points out, we’ve noticed over the years that there isn’t always time to go deep on a particular topic. That’s why we’re launching a special monthly video series, True to the Core Deep Dive. Each month, we’ll focus in on one core Salesforce Platform product area, with product leaders there to answer questions and really get down to the nitty-gritty. First episode focus: Setup and user access management For our first episode, we looked at the most highly voted topic area on IdeaExchange: Setup and user access management. So we sat down with Senior PMs Cheryl Feldman and Elizabeth Martin to walk through recent feature updates and look at what’s on the roadmap. The highlight was definitely the 40-minute question and answer section, which really let us go so much deeper than your average keynote session. Other product owners Larry Tong and Laurent Kubaski were firing away answering even more questions in the chat. If you missed it, be sure to check out the video on LinkedIn or YouTube. We need you to help pick future topics If LeeAnne wants you to take one thing away from this episode, it’s that we need you to help us pick future topics. That’s right, this series is all about transparency and that includes topic selection. So each episode ends with a survey to determine what next month’s episode will be about. “I read every single comment,” LeeAnne says, “we read all of the feedback and it directly informs every episode we’re going to put together.” So tune in next month for the first community-chosen topic, Flow testing and debugging, and help us figure out what to look at next. Be sure to listen to the full episode for more from LeeAnne about what she’s working on for Dreamforce. And don’t forget to subscribe to the Salesforce Admins Podcast to catch us in your feed every Thursday. Podcast swag Learn more Salesforce Admins Blog: LinkedIn: YouTube: Admin Trailblazers Group Social Full show transcript Mike: Welcome to Salesforce Admins Podcast. Today, we're diving into a brand new way that Salesforce is connecting with the community called True to the Core Deep Dive. So LeeAnne Rimel, who's been on the podcast before, is going to join me and talk about this new series that gives you, the Salesforce admin, more chances to engage with product leaders, ask questions, and influence the roadmap based on your feedback. You'll have to hear how the first episode went. I'll have the link in the show notes. We're going to hear a little bit about what's coming next, but more importantly, how you can shape future topics. So if you're as excited as I am, keep walking or riding the train or listening, and let's get LeeAnne on the podcast. So LeeAnne, welcome back to the podcast. LeeAnne Rimel: Hi, Mike. Thanks for having me. Mike: Yeah, it's been exciting. And last I checked, there was live, there some event that just melted my social feeds about True to the Core, so we have to start there. Tell me what's going on. LeeAnne Rimel: Well, we love True to the Core and we love True to the Core so much that we are bringing it to you virtually throughout the year. So if you're not familiar with True to the Core, if you haven't attended True to the Core in the past, it's a program with Salesforce that typically is a keynote setting at TrailblazerDX and at Dreamforce where all of our senior product leadership, senior Salesforce executives get on stage and they talk about Salesforce and the future of Salesforce and they answer questions from the audience. And I think, I should know this, I can't remember exactly when it started, but it's more than 10 years old. So it's a little bit of a fan favorite if you've been in the Salesforce ecosystem for a while because it's such a great opportunity to get transparency into roadmap, to ask very direct questions about things that impact you as a Salesforce professional. However, we got feedback from our community about True to the Core that there wasn't enough of them. We only really do it at Dreamforce and at TrailblazerDX typically. And the product suite has gotten big. There's a lot of features, there's a lot of product in the Salesforce world, as we all know. So it was a little bit like a mile wide, an inch deep, I think is how people were feeling. Like, yes, maybe I got the opportunity to ask a question, but I wanted to spend more time on that question and more time in that area with the product managers. So with that context, that's why we created True to the Core Deep Dive. So that's what we launched in August. August 12th was the first episode. And it's very much directly in response to that community feedback that we heard. We want more opportunities for this feedback loop. We want more transparency into roadmap. We want to ask more questions, we want to dive deeper into specific features that matter to us. So the first episode, which you can find on LinkedIn, was in August. And it was with Cheryl Feldman and Elizabeth Martin, who look after set up and user access. And it was so much fun, Mike. We did like 40 minutes of questions, which is a ton. So it was a lot of- Mike: It's still not enough. It's still not enough. LeeAnne Rimel: Not enough. I know, I hear you. I did see a couple notes- Mike: You could do 400 minutes of questions, still not enough. LeeAnne Rimel: I know. I know. But it's definitely more than we had before. So we did over 40 minutes of questions, ton of live Q&A. We had product owners Larry Tung and Laurent we're in the chat also firing away. It was the meme of doing the keyboard and the keyboard's lighting on fire because we're typing so fast. I felt like they were just answering so many questions in the chat about pilot programs, about roadmap, and then really specific technical questions about things that members of the community are facing. So it was really exciting. I'm really proud of it. I'm really excited that it's so deeply connected to community feedback. I think it's really important. That's basically the north star of True to the Court Deep Dive is community feedback and community voting and community questions. So it was really fun. It was great. Mike: So if they missed that first August 12th episode, we'll link to that. You could still watch, it's still worth watching, right? LeeAnne Rimel: Oh, absolutely. I think there was a ton Cheryl and Elizabeth, like I said, they look after user access and permissions, so they shared some of what's coming. They also shared, Cheryl shared, "Here's things that we're not working on," right? Because we're really active on the idea exchange and they- Mike: Can't work on everything. LeeAnne Rimel: Yeah, and I think that level of transparency is one of the reasons that Cheryl is so well-connected with the community and really listens to the community is like we need to know, as admins, as developers, we need to know what's coming on the roadmap. And also we need to know for planning what's not going to be worked on. If I had my heart set on a particular feature area, I think that transparency is really valuable to have the information to make plans. Mike: So let's talk about the future of this series. Is it series? I think that's fair to [inaudible 00:05:40]- LeeAnne Rimel: It is a special monthly series. Mike: Special monthly series. Oh, boy. I feel like get home from school and you get your carrot sticks and your ranch. LeeAnne Rimel: Exactly. Mike: That's what everybody got as a kid, right? LeeAnne Rimel: Maybe ants on a log. Mike: Oh, ants on a log. I forgot about that. Yeah. Okay. There's always food in the podcast. So first of all, I'm Salesforce admin and I really want to contribute to this series. What are ways that I can participate? LeeAnne Rimel: We need you to contribute to this series, Salesforce admins. The topics for this are entirely chosen by the community. So the very first topic was chosen based on idea exchange trending topics and highly voted topic areas. But all subsequent episodes will be chosen based on the surveys and the voting that we're hosting on each episode. So in episode one, at the end of episode one, we had the episode one survey. And the top topic that came out of that and also happens to be a top trending idea exchange topic is flow, and within that, testing and debugging. So that's our next episode is flow testing and debugging. So we'll link, Mike will link in the show notes the blog announcing this, and within that we'll have both the recordings for the previous episodes, the link to register for the upcoming episode, and also the opportunity to vote on topics that are meaningful to you. So that is very much, that community feedback specifically from that voting mechanism that we will have in every episode is incredibly important for us to ensure that we are putting together episodes and shows that are directly meeting the community with what you need to talk about. And we're going very deep. We're really getting granular with the features. So notice it's not just a flow episode, which is a very popular topic, but there's so much within flow. So we went into the subtopic of what is the most hot, trending, highly voted subtopic within flow? And that was, for this round, was testing and debugging. So I think your feedback and I read every single comment, so if you've filled out a survey, thank you so much, from episode one. And then if you fill out surveys in the future, I want you to know we read every single comment, we read all of the feedback, and it directly informs every episode we're going to put together. Mike: So you got to put Easter eggs in your comments. That's what I hear. LeeAnne Rimel: You can throw a little joke in there. Mike: If I was [inaudible 00:08:32] I got to put something in there. LeeAnne Rimel: I like dad jokes. You can put little dad jokes in there if you want. Mike: Well, but that was actually- LeeAnne Rimel: As long as you pick a topic. Mike: Right, pick a topic. That was actually my question is so I'm glad you're going granular. Is there a world where flow debugging gets two episodes because it just keeps rising to the top? LeeAnne Rimel: Yeah, I think that's a really good question. I think we're going to have to see what the data show us. So I think if we see something that is really persistent in where it is on the priority list, I think we will have to talk about should we have repeat kind of follow-on episodes for that. Maybe there's additional content forms or forms that we should create for that topic area. So I think this is, I think as we face those, we'll see the best way to make sure we're meeting the community where they're asking us for more information. I would anticipate, safe harbor, but I would anticipate over the next year we're probably going to have more than one episode on flow because it is such a prevalent topic and there's so many areas within flow to talk about. And we do really want to be able to have this space to go really deep, really granular on those subtopic areas, if you will, like those feature areas within a larger area. It's a great question and I think, yeah, there's no rules around, well, we spend time on this feature area and we're never going to talk about it again. I think that that's not true to the nature of True to the Core and what we're intending here. And then also I think we'll see what the data show and what's demanded. Mike: Yeah, because I was going to say it could also be kind of frustrating if you suggest a topic. I'll be honest, security is a topic we should cover. It never gets voted up very high. Nobody likes talking about all of the padlocks and security features, but it is important. It's in everything that we do, and so- LeeAnne Rimel: Well, and I think we're going to- Mike: ... it'd be kind of fun to see. LeeAnne Rimel: Yeah, I hear you, right? If something isn't always a number one topic, will we get to it? Mike: Right. LeeAnne Rimel: And I think to that, we'll definitely be kind of moving down the list, if you will. Yeah, so to answer your question more clearly, I think we'll definitely be kind of moving down the list and moving onto the, for the episode in November, we'll be looking at, okay, based on the data that we collected so far, and we just had a flow episode, kind of what's number two? And then we'll be moving down in that way. Mike: Gotcha. So Dreamforce will be a little over a month and a half away when this episode drops. Are there big True to the Core Deep Dive plans for Dreamforce? LeeAnne Rimel: Well, there will be a, that we're anticipating a True to the Core keynote at Dreamforce. So I think that is, if you are newer to Dreamforce or haven't attended True to the Core at Dreamforce in the past, I really recommend, if you're going to be there in person, attending the True to the Core keynote. I think it's a really meaningful part of a Dreamforce experience. And then also, if you're not attending Dreamforce in person, it will, typically, it is on Salesforce+, so you can watch it on VOD afterwards. But I think that will be our big... Dreamforce is in mid-October. That will be the True to the Core for October will be the Dreamforce keynote. We're hoping to share more opportunities to vote, to really increase the feedback that we get on future episodes. So stay tuned for Dreamforce posts and things like that. And we're hoping to share more opportunities for Dreamforce attendees to share what they would like to see more of with True to the Core Deep Dive episodes. And then when we'll be back with our regularly scheduled programming, if you will, [inaudible 00:12:34]. Mike: Right, because Dreamforce interrupts everything. For fans of LeeAnne, because they had the how... You did the Did You Know series. That was what I was thinking of. Are there other things that you're working on that you want to share or is it all forward-looking statement right now? LeeAnne Rimel: Forward-looking statements. I think we're working on, I think for Dreamforce this year, so I'm hard at work on Dreamforce technical content in general, sort of the experiences that you have in the Trailblazer Forest and across our technical tracks. And I think I am really excited to see what all the teams are working on for Dreamforce, specifically for our admin, developer, and architect audiences. I think there's just going to be a lot of great technical learnings. We also, I will share, are going to have more community-led sessions than ever before, so there'll be more information coming out about that. But I think we're going to have a lot of technical sessions, a lot of opportunities for admins and developers and architects and more community-led sessions than... We've always had a lot of community-led sessions, we have even more. So I'm really excited to hear and learn from our community. Mike: Well, thank you LeeAnne, for coming on the podcast. I know one fun fact, if people are hungry at Dreamforce, you always have snacks. LeeAnne Rimel: I do always have snacks, Mike: Always. Not candy, but snacks. So that's always good to have LeeAnne Rimel: Snacks to help sustain you through... I think I have a few blogs floating out about there about my preferred snacks, but- Mike: I'm sure you do. You've always kept the team energized in a healthy way, not in a sugar inducing caffeine coma way, which is great. LeeAnne Rimel: Yeah, if someone's having low blood sugar, I probably have a protein bar for you. You'll probably be- Mike: Yes. Yep. LeeAnne Rimel: Or some sort of like- Mike: A nutritious organic environmental perfect protein bar. LeeAnne Rimel: I do my best. Mike: Thanks for coming on the podcast, LeeAnne. We will tune into the True to the Core sessions and I can't wait to see what you come up with for Dreamforce. LeeAnne Rimel: Awesome. Thanks for having me, Mike. Mike: Big thanks to LeeAnne for coming on the podcast and giving us the scoop on the True to the Core Deep Dive. I have a question for you. What after school snack did you get that wasn't carrot sticks and ranch or ants on a log? Curious minds want to know. I also got Ritz Crackers with peanut butter, chunky peanut butter because chunky peanut butter on Ritz crackers is awesome. So there we go. There's a little nugget. Share that on social, be sure to ping me. I'd be curious. Don't forget now, all these True to the Core Deep Dive episodes are going to be built on your questions and your input, so be sure to jump in, vote, share your thoughts, jump on the lives, ask questions. I don't anticipate these ending for a while. We'll have links in the show notes to the first episode and any other information that I have about it as of when this comes out. So that's it. I'm going to go maybe have some carrot sticks and ranch. And until next time, we'll see you in the cloud.
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Agentforce Adoption Framework Helps Admins Navigate AI Understanding
08/21/2025
Agentforce Adoption Framework Helps Admins Navigate AI Understanding
Today on the Salesforce Admins Podcast, we talk to Kate Lessard, Lead Admin Evangelist at Salesforce. Join us as we chat about the new Agentforce Adoption Framework and her new YouTube series, “Kate Clicks Through It”. You should for the full episode, but here are a few takeaways from our conversation with Kate Lessard. A flexible, nonlinear learning journey for admins It’s been a while since we’ve had Kate on the pod, but she’s been cooking up something cool, and I wanted to sit down with her to hear all about it. It’s called the Agentforce Adoption Framework, and it’s your guide for bringing the power of AI into your organization. Kate and the Evangelist team identified a gap: admins needed a structured path to get up to speed with everything Agentforce has to offer. The framework breaks this down into five areas of focus: Explore what’s possible Get curious Try it out Make it work Use it often You can check out Kate’s post on the Admin Blog for more details, but the goal is to help you set goals for your organization and get ready for what’s coming next with AI. Hands-on learning through “Kate Clicks Through It” Kate’s also started a new YouTube series, “Kate Clicks Through It,” where she walks you through Salesforce processes step by step, with demos so you can click along and try them yourself. “I personally am someone who learns best by doing,” Kate says, “I need to get hands-on, I need to do something. In many cases, I need to do it over and over again.” The videos are around 10 minutes long, giving you quick tutorials on subjects like how to build an Agentforce data library, or how to use Org Check as an alternative to Optimizer. A framework for learning just about anything The Agentforce Adoption Framework was developed through tons of research and feedback from admins, Salesforce MVPs, and folks on the product team. We think it’s pretty spiffy—so keep an eye out for more adoption-focused content at Dreamforce or even an event near you. As Kate points out, while Agentforce might be the shiny new toy, the adoption framework can be adapted to just about anything you want to implement. She uses the example of Data Cloud to highlight how important it is to have that fundamental level of adoption for both your users and your external customers. There are so many more great insights from Kate about how to level up your understanding of Agentforce, so be sure to check out the full episode. And don’t forget to subscribe to the Salesforce Admins Podcast so you can catch us every Thursday. Podcast swag Learn more Admin Blog: YouTube Series: Admin Trailblazers Group Social Full Transcript Mike: Welcome to the Salesforce Admin's podcast. This week, admin evangelist Kate Lessard joins us to dive into the Agentforce adoption journey. From building a foundation AI to launching the new Kate Clicks Through It YouTube series, Kate walks us through how admins can thoughtfully and confidently bring AI into their organizations. We also chat about how feedback shaped the adoption framework and, sneak peek, what you might see at Dreamforce. So if you've been wondering where to start or where you are on your AI journey, this episode's for you. Let's get Kate on the podcast. So Kate, welcome back to the podcast. Kate Lessard: Thanks. It's been a while. Mike: Yeah. January. Was it when we did the kickoff? That was the last time. Kate Lessard: Maybe. Or maybe did we do a TDX, prep for TDX call maybe? Mike: We might've. Other podcasters would remember their episodes, but me, just crank them out. Kate Lessard: Yeah, you're a little busy. Mike: It's okay. So you've been busy as well. Let's talk about Agentforce stuff and YouTube stuff and everything you've been working on. Kate Lessard: Yeah, absolutely. It has definitely been a busy year. It's been flying by. And some really exciting stuff that we've been working on for admins this year. Mike: First up being Agentforce stuff, because Agentforce. I know there's not too much Agentforce out there. People say that, there's not. When we're recording this ChatGPT is coming out with a new model. This is our new norm. It's like when the iPhone drop, there's not enough iPhone information out in the world. There's always iPhone information out in the world. There's always going to be AI stuff for us to learn. Kate Lessard: Yeah, agreed. I think that that's the really cool thing about Agentforce and the job that we get to do is that we get to play with and learn the new things as they're coming out because it's so important for us to share with others and let them learn from our mistakes. So I think that that brings a lot of fun experimentation into our jobs. Mike: Right, absolutely. So speaking of that, how do we kind of walk people through the journey to Agentforce? Kate Lessard: At TDX last year we, or I guess this year, we announced that we have this Agentforce development life cycle. But then we kind of started asking what comes before that? How do we get into this cycle where we're iterating through ideation, configuration, testing, deployment, and supervising our agents? How can we get ready to actually go live with agents and Agentforce and using it? And so on the admin relations team, we kind of took a step back and started to think about adoption and how we can set up adoption for admins and get them not only familiar with Agentforce, if they have no idea what it is, where they can get started, how they can start to learn the fundamentals of AI just in general, and then dive into Salesforce and Agentforce and using AI within their CRM. That's been something we've been really focused on, is creating the concept of this adoption framework to help admins get ready to move their organizations towards actually using Agentforce consistently. Mike: Yeah, because I think it's one thing ... I mean, it's a little different than ... And I use this a lot when we talk about Flow or some of our other products. Automation within the CRM space has always been there. We didn't really have to learn it. But with AI, we're all learning AI on top of our organizations learning AI, on top of us going, "Okay, so now how do we use this? And what's the best use of this?" And all of that has to transfer into the admin sitting there going, "Oh my, I have a lot to learn. Where am I at?" And I think that's really one of the goals of coming out with the journey, is helping people understand where are you at, where do you want to go? Kate Lessard: Agreed. I think that the development of Agentforce and of course more widely artificial intelligence, it's fast. It feels like there's something new to learn every week. I think that can cause a lot of overwhelm because we're trying to keep up without maybe even having a solid foundation. So this concept of the adoption framework was really designed as a baseline for admins to be able to take stock of where they are in their Agentforce learning journey, overcome that analysis paralysis that I think many of us have been feeling over the past couple years, and then have resources and a guide for exactly where they are now and what is coming next. Mike: Yeah. So where is this guide or the adoption journey going to show up for us? Kate Lessard: So you will be able to see it, we have a nice blog on the admin's website right now. It is called Your Five Step Guide to Successful Agentforce Adoption. Just double checking that title, but that is correct. And this kind of introduces that adoption framework, the steps that are included with it, some resources for each step along the way. And then you might see this show up in a couple other places. It might show up in a Dreamforce session or it might show up on our website or any other place that I could maybe tease that it would come out. I think it's something that you might see here and there. And the nice thing is that it's ever-changing because we're constantly having new content and new resources to add to it in each step. So I think it's something that you're going to see in multiple places moving forward. Mike: And I was a part of you brainstorming this and bringing it to the team, and really it was everybody on the team had something to contribute to this. Where do you feel like admins are progressing through in terms of the journey? Are we starting off? Does everybody start off at the beginning, or we jump in steps? I mean, is it like a step method, everybody has to go through every single step? Kate Lessard: I think you go through every step, but maybe you don't recognize that you've gone through some of them. So our first step is really exploring what's possible and just really understanding what AI fundamentals are, what is Agentforce? And a lot of our admins are really active. They've already been hands-on in Trailhead. So they've maybe gone through this stage themselves without even realizing it because they've kind of figured out how the technology works. They've actually done a little hands-on work. They have been picturing use cases for their organization. And so maybe they're hopping into that next phase where they're actually sharing this and doing demos to their stakeholders and trying to bring this to their organization. So I think everyone goes through all the stages, but you might not be just starting directly at the beginning. Once you become aware of this framework, I think that you can hop in and find the point that is most relevant to where you are on your journey and be able to kind of pick up from there. Mike: Yeah. And hopefully it kind of helps you gut check content and say, "Hmm, Maybe this is for next week when I'm moving into a different phase." Not to say that it would be a week that you would be in a phase. I'm just using it as a example. Kate Lessard: Absolutely. I mean, admins move fast. I would not be shocked if some of them were moving from phase week to week. Although I would be surprised if they didn't spend some time in that phase where they're building out a demo and getting stakeholders involved in really building that support. I feel like that always takes time. Mike: Yeah, absolutely. So in addition to the adoption journey, what else have you been working on? Kate Lessard: Lots. It's been a busy year. I'm super excited to share some of the things that I've been working on and the team's been working on. We recently launched a new series on YouTube called Kate Clicks Through It, which has been just a labor of love. And I feel like it has been something that I'm really excited about, really excited to put out into the world because it is a series that allows admins to get hands-on and follow along different Salesforce processes step by step. And I personally am someone who learns best by doing. I need to get hands-on. I need to do something. In many cases, I need to do it over and over again. I need to try. I need to fail. That's why admins love sandboxes so much. That's why we love Trailhead, so that we can get in there and we can actually just try things out and see what works and what doesn't, and then take the best version of that to our business. So Kate Clicks Through It launched in July. We have two episodes out right now, one on Agentforce data libraries and one on using Org Check as an alternative to Optimizer, which is retiring this winter. And it's just a way to follow along step by step. They're short episodes, less than 10 minutes spent on each demo so that you can actually have your computer up and click along beside me, and by the end we've accomplished something together. Mike: It's kind of like a Salesforce Twitch stream. Kate Lessard: Yeah, absolutely. Mike: You're not playing the video game, you're building the app or clicking through the app. Kate Lessard: Exactly. Mike: Cool. So Kate, it is, boy, end of August. Well, end-ish of August. I swear these months, it's like it took forever ... February took like eight or nine months. And then we had TDX, and then it was spring for a day, and now Summer is flying by, it's already the end of August. The kids are back in school. Dreamforce is right around the corner. Which usually for most of us is September. It's October this year. It's not close enough to Halloween, but it still would be close enough that you could totally get away with wearing a Halloween costume at Dreamforce. I just realized that, that might be kind of fun. I mean, the biggest costume is Cloudy and Codey. They would win, I suppose. Would they wear a costume? Would the costume wear a costume? Kate Lessard: I don't know the answer to that. Mike: It's inception, like Astro in his Tanooki suit, would he wear another costume on top of that? These are the things that keep Mike up at night. We did wear a Yeti suit. Kate Lessard: [inaudible 00:11:30]. That is true. The Yeti suit and the safari suit. Mike: I forgot about the safari. Kate Lessard: I think we could all just call it a win across the board and wear some awesome admin capes. Mike: Right. I mean, if you don't wear that in your every day, just because you could. We're going to see some of the Agentforce adoption journey show up at Dreamforce, maybe in the keynotes, maybe in the track? Kate Lessard: Maybe. I think that the nice thing about the adoption journey is that it really is applicable to so many situations. I think that it is, even if it's not called out directly, it is going to be there and you're going to start noticing it as part of that underlying education and the foundation of how we're talking about and building things. It's also really nice because it doesn't just have to be for Agentforce either. I think that what we've created is really applicable for a lot of different adoptions of different technologies. So I think that it's something that maybe we'll see as the world continues to progress and AI gets more advanced. So it's definitely something that you'll start to notice at Dreamforce. Mike: Yeah. I'm also thinking of, it always seemed as when I was an admin going to Dreamforce, nine times out of 10 it was, I need to learn about this other cloud because we're getting ready to implement it. So I could see that Agentforce adoption journey being applicable as you're looking at additional clouds as well. Kate Lessard: Yeah, I think especially if you're using something like Data Cloud to unify your data and bring things from multiple sources, that it becomes really important to have that foundational level of adoption for your users in general and your customers, external customers as well. Mike: Yeah. One thing we didn't touch on, and we're not giving away the chili recipe ... I always think back to Food Network where they're, I've got some ... It's always they're making a sauce and they put in, "Well, I've got some salt and pepper and some onion powder," and you're like, "Yeah, that goes in everything." And then I got my seasoning blend, and you're like, "Oh, that's you don't want to tell us everything else that you put in there." Kate Lessard: The secret admin sauce. Mike: The secret ... Yeah. But I mean, I don't want people to think like, "Oh, well, Kate just sat down and mapped out a journey and presented it to the team, and then now it's on the website." What was some of the process or the input that we got on the adoption journey? Kate Lessard: Absolutely. That is a great question because we involved a lot of people in creating this. Not only the team, although that's where we certainly started, but the framework was not built in a vacuum. We had a ton of feedback and interaction both internally and from the community as we developed this. So we got feedback from members of our product team at Salesforce. We did a very soft launch at TDX as part of my demo to deployment session and got some feedback from that. And then we continued to refine and then get feedback from admins in a survey that we shared at a local community conference. And then after that, we took that survey to the Salesforce MVPs and got some more feedback from some of them as well. So everyone that weighed in helped us refine this framework. They called out some things that maybe we hadn't thought were really that important for admins to include in this journey, this roadmap. But once we heard that and we saw it consistently show up, we added it in. So a lot of people weighed in and helped us create this journey map. Mike: And some of it was us just looking at each other and being like, "Is this what we're going through?" Because we're going through Agentforce adoption as well. I mean, from the moment the product hit some of our orgs for us to try and play around with, it was, what are we learning and is this what we're going through? Kate Lessard: Absolutely. And I think that that really hits the nail on the head. I think that we went through a lot of these different emotions that we associated with each stage here. We were curious, we were frustrated, we were feeling really proud once we got to this stage. So selfishly, this framework has kind of evolved into a game changer for our team internally and our internal content strategy as well, because we've been able to see where there are content gaps that we have experienced, as well as what we've heard from the community and what we should be focusing on to give admins the knowledge that they need for a successful Agentforce implementation. And we're able to collect that feedbacks from the admins and the community about what they've been struggling with and what resources and discussions they feel have been missing, which was the biggest thing that was contributed to us as we were building this. Mike: So here's a meta question. Did you use AI to create any part of the adoption journey? Kate Lessard: I did. Okay. So let's think back to this ... It's been such ... Oh gosh, we've been working on this for months. But- Mike: Got to do the flashback [inaudible 00:16:51]. Kate Lessard: First it started off with just a giant brain dump mind map. That was what helped us kind of sort out the emotions and the stages. And then they've shifted terminology and what we are referring to them and how we process them a few times. I think AI really helped me with the survey, is where it helped out. So I was like, "These are the things that I'm trying to get. This is how I'm trying to ask the questions. This doesn't feel quite right. Can you help me refine this?" And so I did use AI to help me with that survey. And then got feedback from our internal marketing team as well to make sure that it was capturing what we needed it to. Because I think the biggest thing that we see with surveys in general, and this is me going down a total rabbit hole from my past project management and consulting experience, when you send out surveys or you're gathering requirements or you're asking questions, if you do so without having the specific goal in mind of what you're trying to get back, you can get so much information that is valuable, but maybe not what you're looking for or answering the questions that you really need answered. So I think that AI, as well as our internal marketing team, was super helpful in refining that. Mike: That, or what I've found is you can ask the question in such a way that it elicits only a certain answer, as opposed to kind of an A, B, C answer. Really you're asking it, is it this or not this? And then you end up with an answer where the person really kind of hones in. And it's almost like, I don't know if the term confirmation bias is right, but I do know a friend once asked me, "When you ask somebody their opinion, it's because you really want them to confirm that you're right." And I was like, "Oh, yeah, that's kind of true." Kate Lessard: Right. Yeah. Do I look good in this? Mike: I mean, all of the time. Yeah. You ask questions like that, "Do you really think I should buy this house?" And it's...
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What’s the Best Way to Teach AI to Salesforce Users?
08/14/2025
What’s the Best Way to Teach AI to Salesforce Users?
Today on the Salesforce Admins Podcast, we talk to Amit Malik, the Content Portfolio Lead for AI within Product Education at Salesforce. Join us as we chat about how we can teach AI effectively to admins and the easiest way to learn Agentforce. You should for the full episode, but here are a few takeaways from our conversation with Amit Malik. The shift from knowledge to value As the Content Portfolio Lead for AI in Product Education at Salesforce, Amit is the perfect person to talk to about where admins should get started with learning Agentforce. After all, his job is all about planning the courses that are offered globally about Agentforce and Data Cloud. What Amit emphasizes is that past knowledge matters less than what learners do in the next 12 months. Agentforce’s capabilities are growing with every release, so he recommends focusing on understanding the core concepts of how AI works and building from there. Malik’s agent framework for admins When you’re building with AI, the first step is aligning on why an agent is needed in the first place. From there, he recommends asking five questions to guide your process: Is an AI agent the best way to solve this problem? Would it be easier to build a flow? Just because you can solve something with Agentforce doesn’t mean you should. What agent type do you need? Salesforce has several pre-built agent templates for specific use cases, like Service Agent, Employee Agent, or Guided Shopping Agents. Consider those options before trying to build something more complicated. What topics do you want to assign to this agent? Define the set of business problems you want your agent to solve. There are standard pre-built topics like FAQ or escalation, but you can make a custom topic if needed. How will you provide data to your agent? AI is only as good as the data you provide it, so you need to make sure you have everything you need in Data Cloud and set up access with the Agentforce Data Library. What actions do you want the agent to perform? “This is where the magic happens,” Amit says. There are four types of actions: Flow, Apex, API, and Prompt Template. It’s important to understand that Agentforce is the final layer of the org, the interface. An agent is really an aggregation of the topics you build it to solve. Those topics comprise the specific actions you enable your agent to perform, and those topics, in turn, are possible based on the data you’ve integrated into Data Cloud. Adopting a learner’s mindset For Amit, the most important thing you can do if you want to learn Agentforce is to adopt a learner’s mindset. “The art of learning is to become curious,” he explains, “education is not about the instructor, it’s more about the learner.” Where many businesses go wrong is viewing AI as a solution in search of a problem. But once you start to get curious about the specifics of your business processes, you’ll start to find all sorts of new ways that AI agents can help. And building around these specific, real-world use cases is the easiest way to get started mastering Agentforce. Amit has a lot to share about learning, teaching, and working with Agentforce, so be sure to tune in for the full episode. And don’t forget to subscribe to the Salesforce Admins Podcast to catch a new episode every Thursday. Podcast swag Learn more Salesforce Admins Podcast Episode: Trailhead: Trailhead: Admin Trailblazers Group Social Full show transcript Mike Gerholdt: This week on the Salesforce Admins Podcast, we're welcoming back, Amit Malik to talk about a topic that's very top of mind for every Salesforce admin right now, which is how do we teach AI effectively? Amit's going to share with us some insights from over a decade of Salesforce instruction diving into why teaching AI is a little bit different now, and how admins can use his five question agent framework to put to better use. Now, whether you're just getting started with Agent Force or you're already experimenting with Data Cloud, this conversation's packed with practical ways to bring clarity to your learning and to your users. So with that, let's get Amit on the podcast. All right, Amit, so welcome to the podcast. Amit Malik: Thank you. Mike Gerholdt: I know a few years back you were on to talk about the architect mindset, so I'll be sure to link to that episode, but now we're talking everything Agentforce and Data Cloud and Metadata and Customer 360. But for people that haven't been around listening to the podcast for three years, and there's a few of them, could you reacquaint the audience with what you do at Salesforce and your journey to Salesforce? Amit Malik: Sure. I joined Salesforce in 2013 and I have been lucky to teach audiences across the globe on Salesforce technologies every year, and I've trained on different topics about Salesforce, like whether it's about teaching administrators or developers or consultants, architects. So I've been fortunate to talk about Salesforce aspects to different audiences. In my current role, I'm working on as a cloud content portfolio lead where I'm specializing in Agentforce and Data Cloud. So my role is to plan what kind of courses should we offer to our customers globally so that we can enable our ecosystem on Agentforce and Data Cloud. Mike Gerholdt: Yeah, I mean, there's a lot to learn. I started using the platform back in 2006 and even trying to keep up is a lot, and so I can imagine learning constantly, there's so much. Amit Malik: It's easy. I would say nobody cares what we know in the past. What matters is what we are working today and for next 12 months. Mike Gerholdt: Well, there you go. Amit Malik: So I've always retrained my mind that what I have done in the past does not matter today. What matter is what I will do in next 12 months. Mike Gerholdt: So let's talk about what we're going to do in the next 12 months. I would love to know, this is going to be my first hard question, they're all hard, I think, not to scare you. I don't think it's hard. But I am curious because you're on a different side of the fence than I'm at. What is different about teaching AI than teaching other technologies? Amit Malik: I would say the interesting part here is there is knowledge explosion in the current times. And when a learner is learning, he has multiple channels to learn from and there is no direction what is the right way to spend your time. So what we need is knowledge distillation. We need to tell our learners, if you only have 10 hours, what should you learn in your first 10 hours. Or if you're not time-bound, what are the first 10 words should you know to do your project better in next three months. That my suggestion, that we should stop the noise and try to develop our attention span in these current time of knowledge explosion. Mike Gerholdt: I really like that because there is a sense of needing clarity when there is this much noise out in the world. Do you find when individuals come to your classes that they have a preconceived idea of AI that you might have to work past? Amit Malik: Yes, because the interesting part is that, for example, let's take a word AI agent. If someone is learning about AI agent from Google's perspective or OpenAI perspective or how Claude thinks about it, how we think about it at Salesforce, we may have different explanations, but at the core, AI agent is an AI system. So once we start getting a clarity of thought that where are we heading, we are trying to suggest how do you build a digital labor who will work along with the human at present. Once you know the goal, I think then it does not matter what is your understanding. You just need to understand why are we learning AI agents. Just because people are saying about it? Or do you really believe in the spirit of, "Oh yeah, it makes sense. If I can get my job done autonomously by a AI system, I can be more productive than I am." I think that's where, the why has to start first before you start doing what is what. Mike Gerholdt: Yeah. Yeah, I often think a lot of times solutions come before people see problems and so they make up problems for the solution when in fact they didn't need to make up the problem. They already had it. Amit Malik: Very well said, very well said. I would say in a different way that for every problem, Agentforce is not the answer. So we need to find out a use case and say, "Oh, this is fit for predictive AI, this is fit for generative AI, this is fit for autonomous agents." So when you start as an architect, you start questioning to yourself, "How should you think to arrive at the solution that, oh, this is a use case of Agentforce now." Mike Gerholdt: Yeah, absolutely. So as somebody that has instructed admins, architects, probably even developers, I mean, you run the gamut, because I know I've signed up for developer courses. If you had to describe Data Cloud to an admin and give its relevancy, what would you say? Amit Malik: Very good. So think of Data Cloud as a portion of all your data from multiple data sources. It's a one repository where we want to bring data from multiple data sources. It could be Snowflake, it could be Databricks, it could be AWS, it could be any data source in your enterprise business. And once we have all this data in Data Cloud, that can act as a knowledge for your agent. As the analogy, think like this. When you join as a employee to a new organization, you need to learn about the system. In the same way we want to give the knowledge about systems to our agent so that they can understand the business and then talk to the customer on our behalf about our business. Mike Gerholdt: And I even think beyond just the customer, I mean, even the employee. If you only set up an agent to look internally within your CRM data, that's almost like giving them a book, whereas if you use Data Cloud, it's like giving them a library. Is that a kind of a competent analogy? Would you use that? Amit Malik: Yes. So see, Data Cloud is in simple way exposing all the data sources and how we attach it to the agent technically with the help of Agentforce data library. So we do not want our learners to get worried about Data Cloud so much because in the future or in the present world, we are trying to encapsulate the plumbing of Data Cloud. So if you're a [inaudible 00:08:50], we just ask you to upload the PDF file to Agentforce data library, and then we take care of all the plumbing behind the scene. So as the admin, you just need to know how to upload your data and we take care of everything. And that's the beauty of Salesforce platform that we try to make things simple because our engineers have done a complex job for you. Mike Gerholdt: The irony is it's usually the businesses that make things complex with processes or approvals or reviews. Amit Malik: That's fine. See, we cannot change the business. I think as a technical person, what I've learned over the years is never challenge the business, rather adapt to business. Mike Gerholdt: That's very good. Amit Malik: Because that's a very important learning. If you keep on challenging, because as a technical mindset, we always think, "No, business is not right," but hey, business exist and that where technology exists. So we need to adapt to the business needs and that's where as you grow as an architect, your fight is not to learn technology because you will have lot many people under you who knows much better than you. But your job is to understand what business value business need to create and how do you bridge that gap with the technology solution. That's where the real fun is. You tie up the business outcome. Mike Gerholdt: And I feel like, because I was just going to ask you, back to our first question, how do you kind of filter out the noise? I feel like your previous answer is kind of that, right? Really focusing on what the business outcome, the business need is, right? Amit Malik: Yeah. So I would like to give you a very small framework which I have been using for myself as I've been learning Agentforce from the front, and I'm lucky to be part of all the teams here whom I interact with internally. Mike Gerholdt: I love frameworks. Amit Malik: The first question I would like to give to my learner is ask yourself, do you need AI agent? If the answer comes yes, that yes, you need AI agent, then move forward in Agentforce thinking, because it could be that you can handle something without AI agent and you don't need it. Once your first question is answered to yes, then you move to the second question, what agent type do you need? For that, you need to know what agent types are offered by Salesforce. Like we offer, say, customer agent, which is implemented through Agentforce Service Agent. We offer employee agent, which is for employees. We offer sales agents like SDR agent for initial outreach and booking meetings. We have coach agent, which is for coaching and mentoring. So once you understand our offerings, then you see, okay, given a use case where customer says, "I want my agent to answer business questions and handle my refunds, or tell about my loyalty balance," we know that I need something for service, I need something for customer, so I need a customer agent. So once you start reasoning that I need a agent and I need a customer agent and I can implement customer agent using Service Agent, then comes a third question, what topics do you want to assign to this agent? Now topic is a very interesting vocabulary which we have launched in Salesforce ecosystem, which is how do you define the job to be done? So think of topic as a aggregation of your business process. So if you want your agent to work on, say, loyalty balance check. So that's all the questions about loyalty balance will be handled by loyalty management topic. So that loyalty management topic is like a grouping of all the actions. Once you know the right topics that do you want to leverage the existing topics like standard topics, like say general FAQ or escalation, or do you want to make a custom topic, your third question is answered. Once you have answered the third question, the fourth question is, how will you provide data to your agent? And here where your Data Cloud come into play. Because agent is dumb. Agent does not know anything about your business. So to provide the value to your agent, you need to connect your agent with the data library. And now with Agentforce data library, we support web search, we support files, we support your knowledge articles. So once you understand how do you want to educate your agent, your agent is now having a data about your business. Once these four questions are answered, the fifth question is, do you just want agent to answer the questions or do you also want agent to act upon it? Customer says, "No, I want agent to act upon." And then comes the fifth thing, which is what actions do you want agent to perform? Now this action is where the magic happens, and this is where all the administrators and developers can start working on leveraging their past knowledge. So if you're good in flows, you can have a flow agent action. If you are good in Apex, you can have Apex agent actions. If you're good in API, you can have new soft calls, you can call external services. If you're good in prompt engineering, you can use Prompt template. So depending on the use cases, we give you four reference action types, which is Flow, Apex, API, and Prompt template. Once you have answered to this five questions, now you know a lot about solutioning. So this framework will help you through how to position the right solution for your customer. Mike Gerholdt: I really like that. Thanks for sharing that. And I was thinking through as you were talking through that because we have, I mean, internally we use Salesforce on the admin team to manage our content. And Josh Birk built what we call Agent Goat, which helps us answer questions and create relevant records. We even did something fun, I don't know if you think this is cool, we think this is cool. We uploaded the release notes to Agent Goat and gave that as a resource. Amit Malik: Wonderful. Mike Gerholdt: Yeah. Because then we can ask it about new features. Amit Malik: And recently we launched our Salesforce documentation action. So we can just plug in that action to our agent and now it can start answering questions based on our Salesforce documentation. We just launched. Mike Gerholdt: I mean, there's so much to do. Amit Malik: Yes, that's the fun thing. Once you understand that agent is nothing but aggregation of topics and topic is nothing but aggregation of actions, and actions can happen on your data. So agent, topic, action, data, that's a master framework. Mike Gerholdt: Right. Amit Malik: Once you start thinking on this four words, agent, topic, action, and data, everything will start falling into place. Mike Gerholdt: So I'm curious, and I genuinely don't know the answer to this, but have you been to any of our events and happened to see any of the agents that customers have built that you find really inspiring? Amit Malik: Yes, I was lucky to be part of TDX Bengaluru Hackathon. Mike Gerholdt: Ah, yes. Tell me more. Amit Malik: It was so wonderful to see our customers showcasing the real use cases. Let's say a job application agent, some student is applying for a job, that how we can have a agent which can read the resume and do the shortlisting and send the further steps for the candidate. Or it could be other scenarios which customers were showing in insurance that how we can process the claims with the claim agent. Or as we know in the Conquer, for example, expenses, how we can have expenses being reviewed by agent and auto approve, saving the time of senior management to approve the expenses. So see, once you start thinking of use cases, then the value is derived. The value is not in technology. The value is in applying the technology to benefit the customer and improving the customer experience. Mike Gerholdt: And would you also extend the customer for admins and architects and developers to users of Salesforce, not just external customers of your organization? Amit Malik: Yes. So let me define this. So here, when I say customer, so customer is, say, Marriott who is buying our Salesforce license, or any customer who buys our Salesforce license. And then in that customer, we have employees who are using our product, they're our end users, and if this customer is further implementing our solution for their customers, then they become end user. Mike Gerholdt: Yep, that makes sense. Amit, I'm curious, in the instructional side of Salesforce and having done instruction for a long time, if you were to look into a crystal ball a year out from now, how do you see AI influencing instruction at Salesforce? Amit Malik: See, it's very funny. I would say this. Everyone believes that in the future we all will learn through ChatGPT, Claude, and we'll keep on learning through AI tools. But to me, there's a need for clarity of thought. Because if you don't know what to ask, you will never get the answer. So the magic of learning is your curiosity. So as everybody's moving, we are moving towards AI teaching us step by step, but if you do not know how to leverage AI, then AI will be useless to you. So the art of learning is to become curious, and once you know how much curious you are, then AI or human does not matter. Then you can learn from AI also because you know how to ask right questions. So I think, in my mind, education is not about the instructor. Education is more about the learner. If learner is...
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AI Is Transforming Marketing From Data to Personalization
08/07/2025
AI Is Transforming Marketing From Data to Personalization
Today on the Salesforce Admins Podcast, we talk to John Wall, co-host of the Marketing Over Coffee Podcast. Join us as we chat about how new generative AI tools are enabling marketers to get more personalized. You should for the full episode, but here are a few takeaways from our conversation with John Wall. Six core marketing use cases for AI Thanks to Agentforce, generative AI has moved from novelty to necessity for most organizations. It’s a key tool for strategic content creation, customer insight, and business transformation. That’s why I sat down with John Wall, co-host of the Marketing Over Coffee Podcast, with guests like Simon Sinek, Seth Godin, and Debbie Millman. John identifies six key areas where marketers can lean on AI support: Generation Summarization Extraction Rewriting Classification Question answering These tasks are helping marketers analyze massive datasets, repurpose content, and simulate customer feedback in ways that were previously unimaginable. So my question for John was: what can we, as admins, build to help them out? Better data, smarter personas Marketers use personas to help them think about the specific people in their audience that they want to reach. “Right now, that’s four people in a conference room coming up with cute nicknames like Sally Shopper or Wally the Weekend Warrior,” John says. In the future, however, AI will make it possible to decide on marketing personas based on data-driven profiling. Marketers can extract customer patterns from engagement data and train real models based on statistics, not spitballing. Even more exciting, these new persona agents are essentially customers on demand. You can ask them questions and get their feedback while you plan your next marketing campaign. Why you need a human in the loop As everyone rushes to deploy AI, John emphasizes the importance of the human in the loop. Mistakes are bound to happen, and rushed implementations can harm brand trust. You need to make sure that any solution you deploy has gone through a thorough internal vetting process before it goes live. As John says, AI advancements are probably not going to put you out of a job, but they’ll definitely make your job easier. “The big thing is you have to be curious,” he says, “go play with something and see what you can make it do and what kind of results you can get from it.” Listen to the full episode for more from John about how AI is transforming marketing. And make sure you’re subscribed to the Salesforce Admins Podcast to catch us every Thursday. Podcast swag Learn more John’s Podcast: Salesforce Admins Podcast Episode: Salesforce Admins Podcast Episode: Salesforce Admins Podcast Episode: Admin Trailblazers Group Social Full show transcript Mike Gerholdt: This week on the Salesforce Admin's Podcast, we're catching up with John Wall, longtime marketer, podcaster, and co-host of Marketing Over Coffee. We're going to dive into the rise of AI in marketing from smart summarization and rewriting tools to full-blown virtual agents. We're going to unpack how marketers can stay ahead and why AI is not magic, even though it kind of feels that way, and what smart Salesforce admins should be watching for next. Plus, you'll hear why having a human in the loop is still the secret sauce to marketing. So give this episode a listen and join me in welcoming John Wall to the podcast. So, John, welcome to the podcast. John Wall: Mike, it's great to be on the mic with you again. Mike Gerholdt: I know, it's been a while. I feel the last time we recorded was in Boston, 100 years ago. John Wall: Yeah, downtown Boston. I remember we were live on Newbury Street. That was like the heart of all the action. Mike Gerholdt: Yep. We were recording the old style podcast. We had an Edison, it was putting it on a phonograph and some wax tubes. John Wall: That's right. Sitting there with my ear trumpet listening. Mike Gerholdt: Ear trumpet, I love it. For those people, like the two people in the world that don't listen to Marketing Over Coffee, can you give us a brief overview of what you do and what Marketing Over Coffee is? John Wall: Yeah, sure. So, my whole career I worked in marketing and tech, and God, going on what, 16, 17 years ago when podcasting was just done with steam engine and hammers and nails. We created Marketing Over Coffee, with my co-host Christopher Penn. And we've had this ongoing dialogue of just every week, 25 to 30 minutes talking about what's going on in marketing and tech. And just like CRM, this space is so insane and changing every week, there's no shortage of stuff to talk about. But then, and it's also grown up enough that I've been fortunate enough to get a lot of big marketing brains and authors on, like Simon Sinek and Debbie Millman, Seth Godin, folks like that. So yeah, it's really kind of opened up the world because the family doesn't want to hear what I have to say about marketing over Thanksgiving, so I have somewhere to talk about that. Mike Gerholdt: Oh, that could be another, you should rename the podcast that for the holidays, Marketing over Thanksgiving. John Wall: Yeah. Mike Gerholdt: Just see if anybody notices. John Wall: That glazed overlook when I'm talking about what I do for a living. Mike Gerholdt: So I make ads, I'm like Jon Hamm on Mad Men. No, and I remember the Boston. So much of what admins do I remember, is interface with marketing. And that's why I love having you on because not only as a personal brand, but also as somebody that does a lot of podcasts and content creation, it just overlaps with what admins do. And marketing is such a big facet of any organization now. I mean, you can't sit down and talk sales without, well, we should have the marketing person in here, and they always want 5,000 more requirements than what you started with, but that's why I love having you on. So, let's dive in. I feel like we woke up from the pandemic and AI just was everywhere now. I'd love to know on what the world of AI looks like for marketers now. John Wall: Yeah, I mean, you totally nailed that, and the world has changed yet again. We were kind of finally, things were finally stabilizing a little bit. Platforms that matured, as far as email and text messaging and advertising and things are fairly solid, and now AI has shown up to destroy everything. It's been a little weird though, because our world didn't change as much. We've been working a lot with machine learning to do data analysis for years. So my co-host on the show and partner at Trust Insights, Christopher Penn, had long been using machine learning to measure PR and advertising results. Doing statistical models to prove like, okay, what's actually working in your branding and your advertising? These things that you can't easily measure with clicks. And so that has been an area where we were able to kind of provide some value and insight that nobody else could get. But then really, I don't know, about a year and a half ago when generative AI became the hottest thing going on all fronts for marketing, the amount of interest in that has just exploded. So yeah, we have a bunch of fronts that we're applying the technology and it's just amazing to see the range of how marketers adapt. There's still plenty of marketers that don't want to look at it and have their head in the sand, and all the way up to, we have clients that are like, "Hey, we want to reimagine our entire business because we think it's going to be something completely different in the next five years." So yeah, we spent a lot of time thinking about where this stuff is going to go, and it's amazing how... And literally we have, Christopher works full time on monitoring this space and seeing what's new and what's coming next, because it's just insane when you look at the fact that we've had six major models this year. There's never been a time in tech history where you have six major products show up at once. So, yeah, everything is changing and it's just a challenge to keep track of what's happening this week. Mike Gerholdt: Yeah, I remember not that long ago, thinking how long in the tooth we've been working in tech, when I heard some statistic of, today we'll create more content than was ever previously created in human history. So now with AI, are we exponentially creating more? Are we creating better content? Is that the converse... I always dig into like, what's that next layer down? Are we really caring about creating better content with AI or are we just creating more content with AI? John Wall: Right. Well, of course, marketers ruin everything, right? Mike Gerholdt: Right. John Wall: This is nothing new. Yeah, there's a whole army of people that are taking their stuff that was pretty crappy and now we have an exponential amount of pretty crappy stuff out there. So yeah, and it's going to be really weird to see how all this goes because it's the classic antivirus defense too. It's, as soon as people are creating exponentially more junk, all of the search engines or AI powered search engines are adding defenses to pull all that stuff back out. So it's just this never ending battle and yeah, the level of content, I don't know, it's so much so that we're going to burn more electricity in the next year than the power of the sun. I mean, it's just insane how this is all changing. Mike Gerholdt: But we'll have better copy for our websites. John Wall: Right, you'll have a better landing page. It's going to convert for you. But then we do see, as with everything, right? There's people that are using the technology to automate the foolishness of the past, we have electronic yellow pages being created. But at the other end, there's people who are using these tools in totally brand new and novel ways to get some insight that they've never had before, or automate things that used to be just insanely difficult to automate, and yeah, go to new places and create advantage. So there are ways to win and yeah, there's going to be a ton of things that we never even expected that will change everything for us. Mike Gerholdt: I mean, the biggest thing before AI, the wave of AI hit, the biggest thing we were dealing with was data lakes and these massive data volumes. And I think even marketers were dealing with that too, because you have people going to their website and they're unauthenticated and we're assigning a profile to them. How do we dig through when you've got millions of impressions on a page? What was that journey of that person? How did they actually get to the pair of shoes that they bought? Now with AI, are we getting smarter at doing that? Is that kind of the data that we're digging into? John Wall: Yeah, absolutely. And so yeah, when you look back, step back and look at the landscape. Generation, we consider that one of only six different options to use AI for to help get you places. And two of them extraction and summarization, that's just what you're talking about. It's like to finally be able to have all of these different data sources all over the place, load them up into a system and have it do the heavy lifting of, okay, find the commonalities between these things. And yet it's just, we had been promising this for decades, this idea that when people in marketing talk about personas, that's just because four people in a conference room came up with cute nicknames and an idea of who these people should be. They're like, oh yeah, Sally Shopper and George Weekend Warrior, or whatever. But now you can get actual summarizations based on the data itself. And you actually know that, okay, we do see that 40% of the buyers look like this, and they have these things in common, and it's all based on statistics, none of it's based on gut. So yeah, those kinds of insights are really interesting. And we've actually been pushing another level. You can go ahead and create these profiles of who these people are, but then use those profiles to train the large language models. So now that you can actually treat that as a customer on demand that you can survey and ask questions to, instead of emailing everybody with every purchase of $0.35 to ask for feedback on what's going on, you just go to the large language model and say, "Hey, here's the next four marketing campaigns. Tell us what you think about those and does this resonate with you?" And you can get similar insight but not cause as much trouble and not have to wait. Mike Gerholdt: You mentioned six, I think you gave us one or two. What were the other four? John Wall: Yeah, so obviously generative AI, you've got generation, we just talked about extraction and summarization. The other three, rewriting, which is just something that can easily raise your productivity, right? If you're somebody who's having to, okay, I wrote this white paper for the construction industry. I want to write about the same kind of stuff for the food service industry. Rewriting is very easy and instant for generative AI to do. Classification is another use case. We see this a lot where people that have multiple products, they don't know how they fit in together, or even if you just have large amounts of data. A good example is for a call center, you've got 30,000 calls a month. To have AI transcribe those and go through and find the 20 features that you should fix to make 10% of your calls go away. That kind of stuff is a huge benefit, huge lift. And then out of the six, yeah, the last is just question answering. You can really get better insight into topics than search engine results by asking AI to not only give you the answer, but explain how it got there and educate you on, what do you need to know to kind of understand the space a little bit more. Mike Gerholdt: And I think we're seeing, I mean, from the Salesforce side, we're showing a lot of use cases and we have a lot of customers that are standing up agents on public facing sites. Are you seeing that more and more as a trend for marketers to work with? I think one of the things, as I say this, one of the stereotypes that most marketing falls into is, how do we drive more sales? But I think a lot of marketers are also, how do we divert service cases as well and drive sales through service? Are you seeing agents on public-facing websites as something marketers are paying attention to for that? John Wall: Yeah. I mean, everybody wants that, right? And unfortunately, we've all seen this cycle. This happens where there's the board meeting and the board is saying, "Hey, we got to get onto this," and so now somebody's like, okay, I need to get me one of these shiny object things. And unfortunately, it's mostly disaster-ville, right? We were seeing these things of people hooking up a chatbot or whatever, and it's starting to just spout off lies and crazy answers and it just becomes a train wreck. So yeah, that is one thing that's going to be huge over the next couple of years. The idea of, okay, yeah, you've got these bots or these agents, but which ones are enterprise-ready? There's a huge difference between something that's been vetted and tested. For most of our clients we're saying, no, you need to have a human in the loop. A great... The use case that you just talked about would be, yeah, have the AI generate the top 2,000 answers for problems that it sees, but then that goes through the product manager for verification to prove that they're all real. You can't go live with that, but yeah, there's definitely going to be a lot of, unfortunately, we're going to see a lot of scary news as people pull the trigger on something that goes awry. Mike Gerholdt: Well, that's kind of like we saw like the, we're not ready for the self-driving cars. We've seen that in San Francisco, but they still have somebody in the passenger seat or in the driver's seat just in case. The human in the loop. John Wall: Right, and that's always been, even you look back in history and it's like, yeah, escalators and elevators. There used to be people that was their job just to make sure that nothing went wrong. Mike Gerholdt: Yeah, and of course not to be predictive, but I don't know the last time I rode an elevator where there was a person there to press the buttons for me. John Wall: Right, exactly. And yeah, there are... Well, yeah, it's just so much of that is the media and the way information gets presented to us as news. It's like, yeah, okay, these three automated cars got in some kind of weird accident, but we're not getting the story of all the ridiculous stuff humans did over the past month in cars. That's just not news for us anymore. Mike Gerholdt: Right, contextual. You mentioned at the beginning, sort of the great spectrum of marketers with their head in the sand, all the way to, we want to revolutionize our business. Where do most marketers fall, in terms of thinking with AI, thinking about AI? And where should that be? John Wall: Yeah, that's a great question because it's really, in a lot of ways this is a retooling for everybody. You have to go back and look at all your processes and figure out which ones apply. And because, and you've talked about this in the past, the fact that it's not about AI showing up and it's just like the marketing department's going to get wiped out. What's going to happen is over time, there's going to be three or four marketers that have added AI to a bunch of their workflows, things that they've hated doing, and so they've figured out how to automate them. And those people are going to be exponentially more productive than the folks that are avoiding AI and trying to stay away from it. So yeah, where people should be. The big thing is you have to be curious. It's just like with every other major tech change. Go start playing around with something and see what you can make it do and what kind of results you can get out of it. Because at this stage of it, you're going to find these really crazy things. You're like, oh man, I never thought that I could use that to come up with an intelligent email address predictor. Every sales and marketing person has this where they're like, oh, I have to get in touch with this person and they haven't put their email up on the social networks that I normally follow. And so getting some suggestions to do that kind of stuff. And the other one is, yeah, so much of marketing is combing through spreadsheets and trying to prove results or manage copy and things like that. So much of that stuff can be automated and give you hours back in your day. So yeah, it's a matter of having... Be bold, play around and kind of see what you can break. Mike Gerholdt: Yeah, I think back to, and I've tried to look this up, but I've heard the story of in the late-1800s, I forget who it was. I want to say Thomas Jefferson but that's probably not right, writing a letter to the US patent office saying, "You can shut down because everything that's been invented has been invented." And correlating that to, we can't let cars happen in the world because they'll put wagon wheel manufacturers out of business. And the labor force of wagon wheel manufacturers, it'll be devastating to the economy that all these wagon wheel manufacturers will go out of business. And I think back to, well, they just didn't understand. If you're a wagon wheel manufacturer, you're just really good at making things with wood. And if cars come around, then make things with wood for the car, as opposed to making wagon wheels. And I feel like we're in that age now where people are, if AI comes out, AI's going to take my job. AI can generate an image, there's no more graphic designers. No. Have you seen AI's images? Graphic designers are going to be around...
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Breaking Into Tech With a Nontraditional Background
07/31/2025
Breaking Into Tech With a Nontraditional Background
Today on the Salesforce Admins Podcast, we talk to Derika West, IT Application Support Analyst II at KinderCare Learning Companies. Join us as we chat about how she got started in her tech career and how she started her Salesforce journey. You should for the full episode, but here are a few takeaways from our conversation with Derika West. Getting started in a tech career Derika started her career in the U.S. Army as a Carpentry and Masonry Specialist. From there, she bounced around between service industry jobs while she tried to figure out what was next. “There’s no way I could get into tech,” she told herself, “that’s way too smart for me.” However, when Derika moved to the West Coast, her friends believed in her. She applied for a position as a QA Test Technician, and spent a lot of time figuring out how to pitch her skills in a way that would make sense for the role. And that position gave her a foothold into an entirely new career. Getting hands-on with Salesforce In her current role, Derika is the SME for her organization’s transition from Classic to Lightning. It’s an org with over 40,000 users, so change comes slowly. She found herself in more and more conversations with end users about their pain points using their Salesforce deployment, and started looking for solutions. One thing that has been very helpful for Derika is to reach out to the people at her organization who are more experienced with the Salesforce platform. Even learning the basics of what they do and how they got to where they are today was very helpful in making the decisions that would shape her career. Why you should go to a Salesforce Admin Meetup Derika resolved to go to the next Portland Salesforce Admin Meetup, where she happened to meet Admin Evangelist superstar Kate Lessard. “I told everyone in the room that I’m new and I know nothing about what I’m doing,” Derika says, “and everyone was so welcoming and so helpful.” Kate connected Derika with Supermums, an organization that provides training and volunteer opportunities to help people get started with a career in Salesforce. She’s about to take her certification exam, and let’s all send her good vibes and good luck. Make sure to listen to the full episode for more from Derika, and don’t forget to subscribe to the Salesforce Admins Podcast so you can catch us every Thursday. Podcast swag Learn more Salesforce Admins Podcast Episode: Admin Trailblazers Group Social Love our podcasts? Subscribe today or Full show transcript Josh Birk: Hello, everybody. Welcome to The Salesforce Admins Podcast. I am your guest host, Josh Birk, and today I'm delighted to bring Derika West onto the show, to talk about her journey into Salesforce, into the world of tech. And where she is on that journey, where she's looking for to go. Welcome to the show, Derika. All right, welcome everybody to the show. Today we are going to welcome Derika West to talk about her journey into Salesforce, where she is with it right now, and we're her future looks. And Derika, in looking at your CV, it pretty much starts with your military experience. What was it like being in the Army? Derika West: Yeah. The Army was a wonderful thing for development for myself. I've always been a self-starter, I would say. And someone who thinks outside the box. And I just didn't know where that would fit for me in terms of which direction of a career I wanted to take. I initially started in college, and then I met somebody in my math class in college who was actively in... I think it was the reserves at the time, and I think she's full-time active duty now. But we just started talking about options of careers. And I'm always asking questions, as you'll find out. I just asked her, what is it like being a female in the military? And she just said, "There's so many things that you can do as a female that you aren't really told growing up, and even high school." For me, I never considered the military as an option for me. And then, I just learned that there's so many different routes you can take. It's a way to build yourself up and get some self-confidence, really, as a female. And so, I ended up speaking to a recruiter, got involved, and then I joined the Army. And did battle buddy things with her and talked to her throughout my journey. It was really great. Yeah, I had a good time in the military. Josh Birk: So two follow-up questions to that. First, was there something about the Army role that you were looking at that you were... Going back to your point, I didn't know. I didn't think about me being as an engineer because I haven't seen a lot of women in tech, women in engineering, stuff like that. Was there something about the role that was like, oh, this could be something cool and new that I could learn that I hadn't thought about before? Derika West: Yes, absolutely. That was one of the main points for me in joining the military. I really wanted self-confidence. I wanted to build myself up, and I didn't know where to start. For me, the military seemed like a wonderful route. It had a lot of structure. I was looking for discipline, I was looking for travel, I was looking for all the things that the military had to offer. And I think anybody knows that the military is very eager to get people in. Yeah, it was pretty much, once I talked to a recruiter it was no-brainer after that. Josh Birk: Nice. I got to ask, what is traveling with the military like? I can imagine it's wildly different from commercial. Derika West: Absolutely different. You are definitely the government's property. Anywhere that they say you're going, you're going. Luckily for me, my first duty station was Hawaii, so I got very lucky. Josh Birk: There you go. Derika West: And it was just, I lucked out because nobody else got a duty station like that. And I know my brother-in-law, he's currently active in the Army, he doesn't really get that much flexibility on travel. But it's definitely, it's very safeguarded when you travel. It's not picking the cheapest flight and going somewhere beautiful. It's very structured in that way. Josh Birk: You roll the dice, sometimes you get a 20-unit up in Hawaii, but other times maybe not so much. That makes sense. Derika West: I got very, very lucky. Yes. Josh Birk: What was life after the military? What was that like? Derika West: Life after the military was a bit confusing for me. I was struggling with figuring out which path I wanted to take for my long-term in terms of career. Outside of having that structured day-to-day life, I was pretty much a spinning compass at that point. I decided to move back home and start from the ground and spend more time with my family. Recharge my roots back home a bit. And then for, I would say, about five to 10 years there I was just doing service industry things and just trying to find my way. And then I made another move after that out to the West Coast. And then I got more connections out here, much different than the Midwest, and found my way into tech eventually. But it did take me a while to get to this point. Josh Birk: You moved to a new coast and you started getting into tech. What was the appeal of tech to move all the way out there and try to get a job in it? Derika West: Life brought me out to Oregon. I was looking for expansion. I wanted to really grow myself physically and mentally, and I wanted to learn things that were outside of my Midwestern bubble. Josh Birk: Got it. Derika West: I felt like when I came out to the West Coast, a lot of people acted different, they thought differently. A lot of the things that I learned about in the Midwest were produced from the West Coast, so I felt like I could [inaudible 00:06:12] to people here. Josh Birk: I love that. I love that. Derika West: You feel that... I don't know how to put this. You're from the Midwest. Josh Birk: Yeah. Derika West: You feel a bit siloed in the Midwest. And I never really considered tech as a career option for myself when I was living there. So when I moved here and I started hearing about all these new people and different career paths, I was like, I need to expand my brain and I need to think outside the box of these potential possibilities for myself longterm. I think, really, it came down to the careers before this point that didn't work out for me. The things that I liked about those careers and the things I didn't like about those careers. And then just simply networking with like-minded individuals who were really interested in self-growth and just being in a space of learning more. Yeah. Josh Birk: What were some of those early touch points of here are other people in a similar situation that they're trying to put themselves into a new skillset and something in technology? Derika West: Honestly, it started with meeting a software engineer in a friend group. And she worked for a local cannabis company here in Oregon. And she and I just started chatting, and I just asked her what she liked about tech, what got her into it. And she gave me the breakdown of her day-to-day. And just asked if I had ever considered getting into tech. And my response was, "I've never considered that. And also, it's way too smart for me. There's no way I could get into tech, I don't understand anything about it." That's my first touch point in getting some exposure. Josh Birk: It's such an important one. I feel like there's so many people that I've met over the years who just needed that one friend to help demystify it a little bit. Derika West: Definitely. Josh Birk: It'd just be like I've done interviews where people are like, "I challenged myself to learn JavaScript by not going out socially for three months, but now I work in my dream job." So that [inaudible 00:08:27]. What was some of your early successes? What jobs were you getting into? Derika West: My first job was a QA test technician, which I would've never pictured myself doing ever, but it was incredibly helpful to get me started into tech. It was everything that I didn't know that I needed getting into this industry. It taught me how to ask hard questions. It taught me how to put myself in uncomfortable situations, and just to get into something that I know nothing about. And I honestly didn't even think that I would get a QA job, but it really laid the foundation of my tech career. And I am very lucky and fortunate that I got that job. Because coming from a background that has zero experience in tech, I really had to talk myself up about the skillset that I had prior to that position, and that was something that I didn't know would sell. And I just did a lot of research prior to my interview and I looked up what a QA does. I looked up where you could go with it. And I just was doing a lot of homework, I guess you could say. Just doing a ton of research. Josh Birk: Yeah. And what I love about this, and for anybody who's listening, and if this vibes with you, I know so many people who are now product managers and senior engineers, and all of these things, and a lot of them got their start in customer support or QA. And I think part of it is you get confronted with technology that even if you didn't build it, you have to understand its working parts. Right? Derika West: Right. Josh Birk: And then, also that QA mindset is also very similar to a programmer's mindset, to a developer's mindset. I'm going to get the joke wrong, but it's like the QA engineer enters the bar. The bartender says, "What do you want?" And it's like, "One beer, two beers, an owl, no beers, zero, null." You have to take in all these weird use cases. Then, how did you start... Was your transition into more of the software side of things, was that Salesforce itself, or was there a transition period? Derika West: There was definitely a transition period. I went from QA to my current role, which is more software-based. My QA position was more testing hardware behind the scenes, working with our devs and working with the product owners and things like that. My current role is more end user facing, but also working with the product owners and other teams. It's a lot of cross collaboration. In my current position, that's where I work directly with Salesforce. And I work with their team, and I'm the person who's the SME of our current project. And undergoing a bunch of transition from changing our old Salesforce platform to Lightning, which is a new one, for those who don't know about it. Josh Birk: Welcome to the club. Derika West: It was quite the transition. Yeah, yeah, it was big. It's huge. We have 40,000 users. It's a lot. Josh Birk: Oh, wow. You have 40,000 users? Derika West: I can't exaggerate that enough. Yes. Josh Birk: And how many of them are system administrators? Derika West: Honest, on our Salesforce team, I don't know at the moment. But for me, it's just me on my team. Josh Birk: Got it. Okay. It's the old admin joke, 200 people in the company, 180 of them are system administrators. Derika West: Right. Yeah. Few and far between, that's all I got to say there. Josh Birk: Nice. Which is the way it should be. What was it like... I'll just come right out on that. What was it like learning Salesforce? Derika West: Learning Salesforce was something that was self-taught for myself. I knew absolutely nothing about it. I was like, "What? What do you sell? What products do you sell?" Even my family was like... My grandma was like, "Salesforce is you're selling things?" And I was like, "No, no, no." Josh Birk: Right. Derika West: Yeah. I had no idea what it was, so I just simply pulled out my resources. I started asking about it. I asked our Salesforce team, "Hey, what do you do? What is Salesforce?" And I had individual meetings with every single team member on that team for myself. And I just made it a point to let them know that, "Hey, this is something I'm very interested in. And on my outside working hours I'm learning this on my own." Josh Birk: Got it. Derika West: So, yes, Trailhead was my first stop. Trailhead was very overwhelming for myself. I was like, where do I start? And also, what am I supposed to be studying? And then I found Trailmixes. And then one thing just led me to another thing, and that's just how my tech journey has been since the beginning. I found that just played out in my own learning with Salesforce. So, that's how I got started with that. Josh Birk: How long do you think you took from you, okay, I want to put this under my belt? Because you work with other applications as well. Or at least you have been, right? Like, oh gosh, I want to say Office 360, and that's the worst example. Derika West: Office 365, yeah. Josh Birk: Like, who doesn't? Derika West: Yeah. What is your question? Josh Birk: Well, no. Yeah, let me start with the question, because that was a tangent [inaudible 00:14:27]. Anyway, it worked in my brain. I swear it worked in my brain. Derika West: It's like... Josh Birk: How long do you think it was before you're like, oh, I really want to put this in my tool belt, I'm going to take some time that's my own personal time and I'm going to start learning it, until you were like, I feel pretty comfortable that I could help administer our Salesforce work? What are we talking weeks, months here? Derika West: I would say about the three-month mark into our transition with our project at work is when I was like, okay, I'm fully going to dive into this and take the reins myself. Because I noticed there was a gap between our team and the Salesforce team. And I was helping these end users on a live call, and they would become extremely frustrated. It's a big pain point in our company, and I'm the one to bring it up because I'm going to bring it up, because I want change and I want things to be smoother for people. And that's really what I'm passionate about in this career is helping people. Josh Birk: Nice. Derika West: And I told our Salesforce team, "Hey, I do not have permissions to do X, Y and Z. Can you get them for me?" And they said no. And then, I took it upon myself to start going to more Salesforce related things so I could learn the platform better. It came down to me and wanting things to be better for myself and for other people, but no one would have bridged that gap had I not been in that gap. Josh Birk: Right. Did you eventually get those permissions? Derika West: No, I did not. Josh Birk: Okay. All right. Derika West: But I am in a place where I'm in a transition, so I understand the business needs and I understand the Salesforce side of things as well. It's my passion hobby right now is learning Salesforce on the side. And it's taught me a lot. Josh Birk: At least you can be that interaction between a user and what Salesforce is when the Salesforce team isn't in the room. Yeah. Derika West: Right. Exactly. Josh Birk: Now, you recently got involved in Supermums, right? Derika West: I did, yes. Josh Birk: How did that get on the radar? And can you give us a quick elevator pitch on Supermums? Derika West: I will try my best. Josh Birk: Okay. Derika West: As I was mentioning before, I work full-time. In my application support role, I am wanting to get into our transition to the admin role. I went on Trailhead and I found one of our local Portland admin meetup groups, and I noticed that they had one coming up. I think it was back in February, it was like four months ago. And I was like, I know nothing about automation. I have no idea how it works, but I'd love to know. I'd love to learn more about this thing. So I just went as a newbie to one of these local admin group meetups. It was my first one ever. And at the end of the meeting I met a wonderful human, her name's Kate Lessard. Shout out to you, Kate. Josh Birk: Shout out to Kate. Derika West: Hey, Kate. We just started connecting afterward. I told everyone in that room that I'm new, I know nothing about what I'm doing. And everyone was so welcoming and so helpful, and it just further enhanced my want to be in the Salesforce ecosystem. So that's where I got started. And then Kate introduced me and gave me a bunch of resources after that meetup, and Supermums was one of those things. And Supermums is a global training program, and it helps people transition their careers and also learn Salesforce. And it can help you get into the tech industry if you aren't already in. They offer flexible hands-on courses. They offer one-on-one mentoring sessions, and then career coaching. And then all of that bundled together at the end, you'll get hands-on work experience with nonprofits. It's a really cool program, and not something that I knew that I would get into. But I wanted more structure for myself, and so I just reached out, I just sent them an email. And I think there's one slot left. Josh Birk: Nice. Derika West: And I was like, sweet, okay, I'm going to take this opportunity to learn more. And I got in there. Josh Birk: Love it. Derika West: That's where I started, with Supermums. It's been a game changer, for sure. Josh Birk: And I've talked with people who there are similar programs out there. But the thing I love about that structure twofold is the fact that I find that a lot of... Without the soft skills part of it, without the career advice part of it, like, okay, now you have a certificate, now what? But the nice thing about getting to work with nonprofits, first of all, nonprofits love people who work with Salesforce that can help them. They need this help so badly. Back when I was consulted, nonprofits and small businesses were always my favorite. Because that thing that you just fixed for them has probably been annoying the heck out of them for the last year. And suddenly you are the superhero, you're employee of the month. But it also solves, because I've talked to developers, I've talked to admins, and they're trying to get a new job, and it's the classic tech chicken and egg problem. You have no experience. I...
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Cleaning Data for AI Starts With Context, Not Perfection
07/24/2025
Cleaning Data for AI Starts With Context, Not Perfection
Today on the Salesforce Admins Podcast, we talk to Chris Emmett, Salesforce Solution Architect at Capgemini. Join us as we chat about how to clean up your data to prepare your org for Agentforce, and why data without context is useless. You should for the full episode, but here are a few takeaways from our conversation with Chris Emmett. AI requires clean data I caught up with Chris hot on the heels of his TDX London session, “Prep Like a Pro: Clean Data and Metadata for Agentforce.” He’s an experienced Salesforce consultant who has helped countless organizations of all sizes reboot their business processes. As Chris explains, unless you have a company of five people that started last week, your org probably needs some data cleanup. And if you want to get started with Agentforce, you need to do the work to make sure the agents you build can understand your data and use it to generate actionable insights. After all, if you can’t derive useful information from your data, then it’s useless. Why cleaning data can feel like boiling the ocean When I worked in sales, we used a CRM that was so complicated that only one guy at our company knew how to use it. Talk about a bottleneck! The truth is, if your business has been around for a little while, you’ve probably inherited all sorts of legacy data. Maybe it’s some random field created by that one guy in the 90s who didn’t document anything, or a legacy system like SAP or MSX that is essential to your day-to-day operations. Chris has seen it all, and it can often feel like cleaning up all that data is akin to boiling the ocean. It’s a monumental task with no end in sight, let alone getting the organizational buy-in to do it in the first place. A practical way to start cleaning your data Chris recommends focusing your data cleanup strategy on the functionality you want to build in Agentforce. For example, if you want an agent to email a customer when their opportunity is five days from the close date and still unsigned, what data do you actually need? You don't need the 300 fields that might be on the opportunity page, or the 300 fields in that account. You might need the opportunity's name, the stage of the opportunity, the close date, the account, and maybe the primary contact of that account. That’s five pieces of information. Suddenly, you don’t need to boil the entire ocean—you just need to boil a cup of water. So start small, focus on the functionality your data cleanup project will deliver, and get the ball rolling. Trust that the things you build with Agentforce will speak for themselves, and you’ll be able to generate momentum to clean up your data project by project. Make sure to listen to our full conversation with Chris to learn more about how to clean up your data and provide context for AI agents. And don’t forget to subscribe to the Salesforce Admins Podcast so you never miss an episode. Podcast swag Learn more Automate with Agentforce Episode: Salesforce Admins Podcast Episode: Admin Trailblazers Group Social Full show transcript Mike: This week on the Salesforce Admins Podcast, we're joined by Chris Emmett, consultant, data enthusiast and Salesforce evangelist accidentally. Well, Chris is passionate about data, and he takes us on a journey from legacy systems and those DOS screens to databases and AI-powered actions, all while sharing practical advice on how to clean up your data without making it feel like you're boiling the ocean. So if you ever wondered how to prepare your org for Agentforce or why data without context is basically useless, this one is for you. So listen in, share it with somebody who maybe is swimming in a sea of records. So let's have Chris swim his life raft over and let's get him on the podcast. So Chris, welcome to the podcast. Chris Emmett: Thanks for having me. Mike: Yeah. Well, it's good to be here. I got a note from Jennifer Lee. She saw the session that you and Jonathan did at TDX London about cleaning data and cleaning metadata, and last week, we talked with Jonathan about cleaning metadata, so this week, of course, we're going to clean our data because who doesn't have clean data? But let's start off first with a little bit about you, Chris. How did you get into Salesforce and why are you so passionate about clean data? Chris Emmett: Yeah. Before I start that, you said who doesn't have clean data? It really should be the other way around. Mike: I know. It was a rhetorical question to get people to listen and be like, oh, but there could be that one person that tunes into the podcast, like I don't need to listen to this. My data is sparkling. Chris Emmett: You know what? If there is a company out there with five people who just opened up last week, their data is going to be impeccable, and they do want to listen to this podcast. They can tune out. Mike: Right. Chris Emmett: I started in the ecosystem in a weird and wonderful way because a lot of ... you've obviously got your accidental admins that find a weird and wonderful way into Salesforce. I was an accidental consultant. So I started out fresh from university as a desktop support engineer, just fixing Windows and fixing printers and fixing Office, and it was great, fun. Then I did a bit of work as a developer, cutting my teeth on Visual Basic 6.0 and .NET all the way back in 2008. But that entire team was made redundant to make way for an off-the-shelf manufacturing system. And as an SME, as an expert in how that old system worked, I was brought in, and then the project manager on that project quit, and I became a project manager, and I was a project manager for 10 years. And then about 10 years later, around 2016, I was working for a company and we were really interested in changing how we managed products. We wanted a brand new system to manage our projects, and one of the products that we looked at was Salesforce. And my word, I was blown away. Literally within one day of using Salesforce, I was creating formula fields and workflow rules as they were back then, and I just fell in love. And this is coming from a person who had spent the best part of a decade dealing with systems where if you needed to add a field, it would take two, three months to get through, and I was dealing with a system where I could start a sentence, explaining to someone what Salesforce was, and by the time I've finished that sentence, I could have created a field. I could have expanded that data model, and I fell in love with it. The company I was working for did not fall in love with it, and that pilot failed. It fell by the wayside, but I was hooked. I was like, man, I need to change my career. So I start looking for project management jobs within the Salesforce space. I had never project managed software before. I had project managed big old factory systems that were very waterfall in their approach. I had never done agile before, so I was applying and applying and applying, getting nowhere. I was probably applying for about eight months, and then this small company in Cambridge were like, dude, you are not great for a project manager but you seem really enthusiastic. Had you considered being a consultant? And I went, but yeah, because it's not managing the projects that I love. It's the system that I love. Salesforce is a platform that I love. I want to be able to empower other companies to improve themselves through Salesforce. So I got a job there as a consultant, and that was 2017, and I have just been building up and flourishing, and since then, I've got 600 odd badges on Trailhead and I think 23 certs now. So I've just gone all in and built my career up. Mike: Wow. Holy cow. That's a lot. I feel such a kinship with you because I joined ... when I started doing Salesforce stuff, I worked at a publishing company, and we had this Apple-based CRM. I can't even remember what it was called, but there was one guy in the office that still knew how to use it, and he would create views or lenses, and that was basically the only way we got things done. All of the salespeople, I was one of them, had to go to him and be like, please, Mr. Jay, would you create a view of ... because none of us knew how to use it. It was incredibly complex. And then we tried to go to this other, this was 2004, we tried to go to this other web-based CRM thing. It was called absoluteBUSY. And if you wanted a field created, you had to log a ticket, and then the person that created the CRM in Sweden would create the field. And it would be like you. It was sometimes months. I just need another phone field. How hard can that be? Chris Emmett: Yeah. Mike: And then I went to another company and they had Salesforce, and I was like, oh, click, click, boom. And I remember, I was like, this is almost too easy to create a field. This is dangerous. Chris Emmett: Dangerous is the right word. It is. I'd like to think most Salesforce professionals go through some ... it's not quite like the seven stages of grief, but it's the seven stages of Salesforce acceptance. You can't go in. You're very skeptical, and then you're like, oh, wow, this can create whatever fields I want, whatever data points I want, whatever automation I want, whatever reporting I want. And then at a certain point, you go, oh, wait a minute, I have just created a monster for myself, and then you learn to think before you build. Mike: I feel like that's a good starting point. Is that where you find most people go off the rails, is maybe they get Salesforce and like, you know what, let's start fresh and they create too many fields? And then because there's too many fields and they're in such a hurry that they get to bad data. Chris Emmett: I look at it a different way. It may be my exposure. I deal with a lot of existing companies. I've not really dealt with a lot of brand new companies. So a lot of existing companies, especially if they're at least 40 or 50 years old. They've got a lot of older systems. They might have a bit of SAP. They might have mainframes kicking around. They might have things written in COBOL or FORTRAN. I would even deal with companies today that have things in MSX, believe it or not. So the danger isn't, oh, let's just create everything in Salesforce. The danger is 14 years ago, Derek created this field. We don't know what it does. We don't know where it's hooked up to. It's not documented anywhere, but we feel like we should pull it over. So the real danger is actually migrating everything. If you don't know what that data point is, you don't know what use it is, you can't validate it, and you can't use it in any meaningful way. Because if you don't understand, then to bring it to the point of this pod, if you don't understand what that data is, what it means, what it's doing for your business, how can an AI agent understand that? An AI agent is not magical. It's not telepathic. It reads the information as if it's a human. It tries to interpret that information. So you've got to know what it means so your AI agent can be told what it means as well. Mike: Yeah. I think people forget that new systems or new features won't save them if they haven't started to save themselves. Chris Emmett: Yeah. This is genuine, by the way. I was thinking this morning as I was just leaving the gym, so I can sound like I'm healthy. Mike: Oh, wow. Fancy. My weightlifting for this morning has been coffee cups. Chris Emmett: Yeah. So I was thinking this morning like, oh, what intelligent things can I say on this pod? I was actually thinking about the meaning of information technology as a term for a department within a business. Information technology, what does that actually mean? It's not about the data. It is, but it's not about the data. It's not data technology. It's not technology that drives data to help a business. It's information technology. And the information that you derive from that data is the most important thing because you can throw data into a data lake or just into a database and just have it stored there. But if you can't derive useful information from it, and similarly, if an AI agent can't derive useful information from it, it's actually pointless. Mike: Yeah. I've once heard information described as data plus context. Chris Emmett: Yeah, absolutely. Mike: And so if your data is bad, then it really lacks context, or you could say it doesn't provide context. Chris Emmett: Yeah. It is all about that context. And again, just to bring it back to the whole Agentforce thing. Agentforce needs to understand that context. It needs to be able to derive some meaning from it. So just as a random example, let's say you've got an opportunity record, which is great, and you've got a date on that opportunity. Cool. Agentforce, can you tell me if there's a date on this record? Agentforce might go away and it might find that date and it might go, cool, Chris, I found a date. It's July the 24th, 2025. Now, if that's written in a note without any context, and I say Agentforce, what does this mean? It's going to go, well, I don't know. A date in the future. But if it's against the close date field, it's immediately got context, and it immediately can derive something from that. It can say, oh, right, okay, so this is the close date. I can see that we are in a negotiation stage. We've got one more stage after this, which is sign contract. It's the 24th. It's a few weeks away, or at least from when we're recording. I understand a bit of context. I understand that there's another stage ahead of this, and I've immediately got more information other than just a record with a random date. That context is everything, especially for an LLM. Mike: But the irony is, and I've done other episodes on this, you could have a close date, continuing your idea, of July 24th. In the close date field, except your company doesn't use that, that's the date that this part of the opportunity is going to close. But then maybe there's a follow-on implementation stage, and that's the context in which you use that. However, if you haven't given your AI any kind of information about that, the context at which you use the close date, ironically, because you have a date in that field, it's bad data, even though it looks like good data. Chris Emmett: Yeah, absolutely. And the point of the TDX talk I did with Jonathan, and I'm sure Jonathan has already mentioned this in last week's episode, the data is important, the data has to be valid, but it also has to sit within contextual metadata. Because if you have a field on your opportunity that is called installation date or delivery date or deployment date, whatever, and you have an accurate data against that, again, you're giving meaning to that data. You're giving meaning to Agentforce so it can interpret it and give you useful information because it is about information. It's not about the data. It's the information. In fact, if I had a time machine, I would go back three weeks, redo my TDX talk, and it would be called prepping your information like a pro, and I guess your meta information. Mike: Yeah. But let's pivot into that because it's time to get actionable and less heady. And I've heard this a thousand times, it can feel like boiling the ocean to clean your data. What is your approach that you would suggest people use to start cleaning their data in preparation for deploying Agentforce? Chris Emmett: Yeah, sure. So again, unless you are that three-day old company with three people in and the data is perfect, it's probably safe to assume you are sat on a mountain of data. If you are a relatively small company, maybe it's tens of thousands of records. If you are a medium or enterprise, you might have hundreds of thousands or millions of records. I certainly worked for a company that had 30 million accounts in the system. That is a lot of data, and you cannot possibly begin to go through that top to tail, making sure that every field is correct and accurate and has meaning. So how do you actually break that down? You're right. You cannot boil the ocean. We start off by thinking about the actions and the intents that you want your agents to do. So if you want your agents to write an email to a customer if their opportunity is within five days of the close date and they've not signed yet, well, what do you need for that? You don't need 300 fields that might be on the opportunity page or 300 fields in that account. You might need the opportunity's name. You need the stage of the opportunity. You need the close date. You need the account, and maybe the primary contact of that account. That's five pieces of information. And then you do not really need to think about all of the old opportunities because this is about an action where you are emailing people for opportunities that are about to expire or about to close. So immediately, you've gone from a million records, let's say, you've got it down to a thousand records, and then you're only looking at those five pieces of data. So you got it down to a thousand records and you got it down to five pieces of information on those thousands records. So I'm not going to do the math in my head because I'm terrible at that, but it's- Mike: Nobody should do math live. Chris Emmett: Yeah. You're probably looking at about less than 1% of data because you're thinking about the intent of that action, that AI action. You're thinking about exactly what pieces of information you need to help that agent. And you're making sure that that specific data is accurate. My theory behind this, my thesis, is by doing that, by getting rid of 99% of the data that you don't need to worry about today, you can get agents and agent actions out to your users quicker, which means they're happier. They're trying new things. You're getting feedback on those new things. And it means that you can improve more processes because you're getting more feedback. You're getting more insight into what is helping people, what's hindering people. And you're doing that because you're just targeting the data that matters, and everything else can wait until it's actually needed. Mike: That is probably the most concise spot-on answer I have heard in a long time. Chris Emmett: I felt like I was talking for about 20 or 30 minutes on that. Mike: No, you weren't. So targeting the data that matters. Chris Emmett: Yes. Mike: Those words, put that on a shirt. Somebody needs to wear that shirt at Dreamforce because ... so that as you were talking through, I was realizing you're really making it from boiling the ocean to boiling a cup of water. Everything doesn't have to be perfect for you to start this project. Just the part that you need to worry about. And I was thinking back to last week. So in Iowa, in the US where I live, we had a really bad frost all winter. We didn't get the snow cover that we usually do, and some of my landscaping plans didn't make it because the roots were just burned by the frost, but not all of them. Some of them were hardy and they're fine. And so I called my landscape company. I was like, I need to replace all these, and plus I want different ones anyway. He's like, good, because if we go through another winter like this, we're just going to be replacing them. And I promise you this gets somewhere. But much like your analogy, so the landscape company came out, and just in the area that they needed to replant those bushes, they scraped all the gravel, leveled the bed, put new tarp down, replanted the bushes, put the gravel back. They didn't have to clean the entire planter bed and scoop all the gravel out and dig up all the bushes and start from scratch. They only had to do the part that mattered. And I felt like that was like, wow, that's like a real life scenario of if we're going to implement this and we're going to really laser focus on this one part of it, let's do that. But...
/episode/index/show/buttonclickadmin2/id/37524255
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How Should I Clean Metadata for Salesforce AI Agents?
07/17/2025
How Should I Clean Metadata for Salesforce AI Agents?
Today on the Salesforce Admins Podcast, we talk to Jonathan Fox, Head of Salesforce Architecture at IntellectAI. Join us as we chat about why we should rethink how we label, structure, and maintain Salesforce metadata. You should for the full episode, but here are a few takeaways from our conversation with Jonathan Fox. How do you know if your metadata needs to be cleaned up? When we were trying to implement Agentforce on the Admin Evangelist org, we came to a sobering realization. Despite all the content we create on how to do things the right way, it turns out that we all approach metadata a little differently. That’s why I was so excited to sit down with Jonathan to talk about how to clean up your metadata for AI. Training an agent is like showing your org to someone who knows nothing about your business. Suddenly, it’s really important what the labels mean and that they’re consistent. Start small with metadata The thing about technical debt is that it’s not a problem until it becomes a problem. Your metadata is probably fine for most of your users, who have a working knowledge of your business processes. It’s only when you try to implement Agentforce that you realize you have a problem. Jonathan recommends that you start small when you’re trying to clean your metadata. Roll out Agentforce for a small use case and only clean up the metadata associated with that specific task. If you need to generate buy-in, try running Agentforce as-is and then show your stakeholders just how much difference a little bit of cleanup can make. Metadata is the foundation “Your metadata is the foundation of your Salesforce org,” Jonathan says, “you don't want to get it wrong, you don't want to make it worse. So it needs to be treated with that respect and that kind of importance when you're changing it.” Documentation is the key to making sure that you’re keeping things usable for human and AI employees alike. You need to make sure that you fully understand the impacts of any changes you’re implementing, or you risk breaking all sorts of automations in your org. Jonathan had so many more great insights about how to start cleaning up your metadata for AI agents, so be sure to listen to the full episode. And don’t forget to subscribe to the Salesforce Admins Podcast to catch us every Thursday. Podcast swag Learn more Salesforce Admins Podcast Episode: Admin Trailblazers Group Social Full show transcript Mike: Welcome to the Salesforce Admin's podcast, and hey, how did we do last week? Did you listen to that episode to see how our 2025 admin predictions were holding up? If not, add that to your play next list, because that was a fun look back. I like listening to things from the past, but let's go ahead to the future. So in this episode this week, we're joined by Jonathan Fox, who takes us behind the scenes on something every admin deals with, and maybe you don't think you do, but it's metadata. And in fact, in next week's episode, we're going to talk about cleaning data, so buckle up folks. It's summer cleaning time. But the fun thing is we start off with a conversation around a barbecue that sparked Jonathan's career and got it into amazing directions. How many people talk Salesforce over barbecue? And Jonathan also helps us rethink how we label, structure and maintain Salesforce metadata. So whether you're prepping for Agentforce or just going through an org and wondering what some of those data labels mean, I promise you, this episode is for you, and if you love what you hear, be sure to give us a favorite or a review on iTunes. But with that, let's get Jonathan on the episode. So Jonathan, welcome to the podcast. Jonathan Fox: Thanks for having me. I'm excited to be on. Mike: Well, I'm excited to tackle this because we've bounced around and I've done a few episodes on cleaning data and cleaning metadata and back and forth and back and forth, and I think it hit our team like a truck when we were working on implementing Agentforce in our org, and Josh, who was working on it, came to the realization that despite having three or four evangelists on the team, we'd all named fields differently and we'd all done things a little different. And he's like, "We really have to talk to people about metadata." And we'll get into that and we'll have a follow-up episode on data data, but Jonathan, let's hear about you. How did you get started with Salesforce and what do you do? Jonathan Fox: My journey into Salesforce was, well, most people say this, a little bit unorthodox. My background is the military in the British Army, and I stumbled across Salesforce, family barbecue. My brother-in-law brought me into the Salesforce world and taught me how to be a developer basically, and I worked my way up through- Mike: At the barbecue? Jonathan Fox: At the barbecue, yeah. That was the riveting conversation we were having over beers and burgers, was Apex in fact. Not quite metadata, but at least a bit of Apex was the topic of conversation. He taught me how to get started in tech and how to be a developer, and the rest is history as they say. Mike: I feel like that was the one line that he's telling his significant other. "No, this line's going to pay off. I'm going to find somebody at a party or a barbecue that wants to talk about Salesforce stuff, just trust me." Years go by, he goes to parties and nothing happens, and then he finds you and he just says something. You're like, "Yeah, that sounds good." "What?" Jonathan Fox: His significant other and mine at the time were just sick of hearing about what is Salesforce? It's all we spoke. Mike: You two go off, grill a burger, talk Salesforce. Jonathan Fox: Come back later. Mike: Come back later. That's crazy. So when we talk about data, every single feature that we roll out, it always comes back to data, but I think more so with Agentforce. Now we have to go one layer deeper with metadata, and I'm going to start off with a hard question. Jonathan Fox: Go for it. Mike: I think it's hard. How do you know your metadata is bad metadata? Jonathan Fox: I think that's a really good question, and I think it is a hard question. I think it's really difficult to know whether your metadata is bad, and until you start poking around with things such as AI, you probably don't realize it. And a really good example, and probably one that we've had conversations in the past about this at your org that you use and things like that where you have these field names. Field labels for example is a type of metadata, and they often have acronyms or naming conventions that only you, the users, actually know about. And until you start trying to make AI understand what they mean, you don't realize because you've got all your industry knowledge, you've got all your organization knowledge, you've done your onboarding. You know how the org works because you've been trained and taught and you speak the lingo, but the AI doesn't know that. So it's only until you start getting to play around with these kinds of things, you go, oh, actually, a fresh set of eyes, somebody who has no idea about this hasn't got a clue, and I think it's at that point you start realizing our metadata needs to have a little bit of a revamp. Mike: Yeah, the field labels and values that you use for fields that are going to be displayed on a page is one thing. I always got quite cavalier, I'll use the term, with fields and labels for stuff that I just needed on the object that wasn't going to be displayed on a page. And now I'm thinking, oh God, Agentforce is going to have reference those and it's totally not going to understand what SP_25Z_PRD means. Jonathan Fox: Exactly, but you know what it means? Mike: The whole organization knows what it means, because everybody's into acronyms, and I just need to store the value on the object for the record but I didn't need to display it for the user, but now I'm going to ask Agentforce for what's the speed record number or something, and it's going to look at me like, "I don't know. You're not capturing that. I'm going to go back over here and talk with this dude about some Apex and grill a burger." Jonathan Fox: Yeah, exactly. There are ways we can get around it with Agentforce and it's things like putting those acronyms in instructions, but is that really the best way to do it? That's almost like hard coding references within Apex. And at that point, you start thinking, yeah, this isn't right. This isn't the best way to do it, and I think that probably answers your question. At that point, when you start having to do workarounds and figure things out like that, you know your metadata is not in a good state. Mike: So that feels like we're walking down a path and we hit a fork in the road where we realize there's a whole bunch of these weird fields. They always include underscores. Why is that? I don't know. People like the underscore. They do that on Instagram too. Do we create this massive dictionary and feed it to Agentforce, or do we have to go back and... When we talk about clean data, you extract the data, you look at it, you fix what's wrong and you shove it back in for the most part, or should we do that with metadata? Jonathan Fox: I think you have to take a pragmatic approach with anything that you do in the Salesforce org, and that goes for metadata, data, tidying up your flows or refactoring your Apex classes and methods. You take a look at it and go, how big is the job? You impact SS? You go, how big is the job? What's the return on investment of me doing this now versus the cumulative over the next few years? Is it worth my time to go back and fix it all? And gold standards, what we teach and what we hope to aim for is yeah, go back, refactor it, make it perfect, but sometimes it's not an issue until it becomes an issue. In this case, for example, your field labels, they weren't an issue in the past, they are now, and I think it's one of those where you have to sum up all those different variables and think, is it worth it? Now, if it's only a couple of fields and it's only ever going to be a couple of fields, maybe it's quick enough just to go back and fix it, or maybe it's not worth the effort and you write it in the instructions. But I think it's org dependent, variable dependent, even individual skill set dependent. But it's one of those that you have to... It's a really non-answer, I know that, but I think there are so many variables. You can't just blanket rule. Obviously, we want to aim for gold standard. Mike: Well, the fallacy is we hear metadata and data and you think, "Well, I'm just cleaning data." But the cleansing of it is actually very different, so what are the implications? I'm sure Chris and I will talk about this, but if you go through your org and you're like, well, everybody has to have a proper name, and so you fix all the nicknames or shortened names. And so you come across the John Fox record. You're like, nope, it's got to be Jonathan. I can confidently say for the most part that changing John to Jonathan isn't going to fire anything, isn't going to break anything, but my question to you is if I go in and I change a field label or I change some metadata on a field, what could I break? Jonathan Fox: Oh yeah, you are risking breaking things. You're potentially risking breaking your flows, your Apex, your validation rules. Sometimes, hopefully you referenced them through API names and we might not be changing them here. We're probably changing field labels, not API names, but you may want to change those as well, and then at that point, you are potentially impacting all of your automation in the org, your validation rules, your assignment rules, et cetera, et cetera. So you have a big knock-on effect by changing metadata, and that's because metadata in Salesforce is the replacement for you writing code on the back end. That's the whole point of it. That's why it's a SaaS and a PaaS to some degree. Salesforce themselves by producing the platform is saving you having to write how fields appear on the UI. You are just putting placeholders there and that's what metadata is on the Salesforce platform, and you change that, you're impacting everything else that references it potentially. So there are big consequences and it isn't just a case of going to object manager and going switch some characters around to make it look neat for Agentforce. Mike: So I think oftentimes, people hear cleaning data and I'm sure cleaning metadata, which feels like next level cleaning. It's like having your carpet shampooed. It's like, cleaning your house is just vacuuming. Nope, we're calling in Stanley Steamer. They're going to do the rugs now. They're going to get all of the dirt out. It can feel like, oh, we have to do all of it. We have to clean everything. And I don't know, maybe you have a tiny house and you can spend half a day and clean your whole house. I can't clean my whole house, but people for some reason look at, "I have to clean all of my data." Given the implications of updating information and metadata, how should people approach cleaning or getting their metadata right for Agentforce? Jonathan Fox: There's probably a couple of ways to approach it. I have a small house, I can probably clear most of mine within a day so I'm lucky. That doesn't mean I enjoy it though, so there are definitely- Mike: No. Well, there's that. I don't know, using the big leaf blower, I could probably clean my whole house and I wouldn't enjoy it, but it'd be clean. Jonathan Fox: Well, that's true, and it'd be good fun in the process. I suppose if you think you're going to have guests over to your house, you're going to host a dinner party or just have some friends, you don't go cleaning all the bedrooms necessarily, and you clean the places that they're going to see. You clean your living room or your kitchen and the bathroom that they're going to use. In a similar way, what is Agentforce going to be using within your org? You might be rolling out Agentforce for a small use case first to prove the ROI to your org. Fantastic. So you might have a small use case and it's only referencing fields on the contact object. Start with the contact object then. Start with those fields that Agentforce is going to be using, and you've proven out that return on investment, your organization loves it, and now they want to expand it to using data from opportunities or orders or whatever else. Then you start moving out to where your guests, your agent, is going to look next. So that's how I would personally approach it, is start with what it's going to be looking at first, because otherwise you're going to be overwhelmed with such a huge task and that's not going to be as productive. Be iterative, work on it in chunks, break it down. Mike: No, I like that. Clean where the guests are going to be, close the doors to the rest of the house. There's nothing there. Jonathan Fox: Exactly. Mike: It's a doorway to a big black hole. Don't open that. Jonathan Fox: You don't need to look in there. You don't need to see the piles of boxes. Mike: Here be dragons. So one thing, and I'm going to have to ask Chris this when we record his podcast, because I've done data cleansing exercises before where you look at things and consultants, you're brought into jobs and stuff, and you look at the data and you're like, well, this is close date and there's July 27th, 2025. That's a valid close date. Why is that bad data? And it's bad data because the process is, well, but after the opportunity closes, we also have an implementation stage and blah, blah, blah, and so if we ask Agentforce, what's the close date? It should say August 24th because it's always a month after the close date of the opportunity. How do you know when you're looking at metadata in the same way that you're like, oh wait, this is something that Agentforce can't use, although it completely looks like usable metadata. Jonathan Fox: I guess you have to almost treat the agent as it is your employee. It's your agent employee within your org, but it's one that hasn't gone through on board and it doesn't work day to day in your org doing all the different processes that your service agents or sales reps might be doing. So you've got to look at it and treat it as if it is a brand new fresh employee that hasn't been through any of that training, hasn't gone through any of that. Straight out of college or something, never been in the industry either, and walk through the life of what you're asking that agent to do, and if it can't do it, then that's where you need to be looking at changing that metadata, change that label. And you've also got to think as well, you don't necessarily want to change it if it's going to impact all your human employees either, so where do you draw the line and strike the balance between making your metadata perfect for agents, AI agents, and making it really confusing and changing it all after many, many years for your human employees? And I think there's a balance that needs to be struck there. Mike: So that to me sounds like the importance of perhaps a data dictionary or just org documentation, right? Jonathan Fox: Absolutely. Mike: We can upload those as resources. I think that's getting better. I haven't done it. Have you done that? Jonathan Fox: I've played around with it a little bit and I think it'll only get more powerful, and I think it only really highlights the absolute need to have strong documentation within your Salesforce org. Again, documentation is one of those really good topics that we can speak for hours about because documentation is only as good at the point in time when it's written because your org is ever evolving. As soon as you bring out a new field, you're having to update that documentation, so keeping on top of it is really important, and trying to have that living document, you upload it to Salesforce for Agentforce to use, it comes out of date immediately. So again, that's a whole topic of its own, but I think it does really highlight to Salesforce customers and people working in Salesforce orgs that tracking all these kind of things is really key if you haven't already done it, and that is a big task, but it will pay dividends. Mike: Yeah, I think sometimes people, and myself included, you get caught up in the speed and the immediacy at which you can do things and you forget, oh, I need to, best practice, write down what I created, why I created it. So I want to pivot off that because if you have bad metadata, it could be the result of you have a bad deployment process or a bad, I don't know, requirements or discovery process. Can both be true? Jonathan Fox: Yeah, absolutely. If you think all the way back to the beginning of their future and you've got your BAs looking into what the product owner wants and they're trying to gain this information from them and then perhaps translate it into Salesforce terms, and maybe there's a gap there or maybe the Salesforce consultant hasn't poked enough holes in the requirements and tried to transform them a bit more. You may have missed that gap all way at the beginning. Or it may be it's absolutely fine for what you've been requested to do and you've built it exactly to spec, but it gets to UAT, and at that point, it was missed that your users had no idea or your agentic employees had no idea what it was doing and it got deployed. And absolutely, that whole lifecycle of development there, there are different quality control gates that absolutely could have missed this or just never had to think about it in the past, and now we do have to think about it. And I heard you laugh a little bit then about the agentic employees and the UAT. Is that something that we maybe need to start thinking about? Testing in UAT, but with agentic employees rather than just running scripts to test things, and taking it outside of the box a little bit. If we're...
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How Are 2025 Admin Predictions Holding Up So Far?
07/10/2025
How Are 2025 Admin Predictions Holding Up So Far?
Today on the Salesforce Admins Podcast, we talk to Jennifer Lee, Joshua Birk, and Kate Lessard from the Admin Evangelist team at Salesforce. Join us as we revisit the team’s predictions from the beginning of the year for how Agentforce will change the game for admins in 2025. You should for the full episode, but here are a few takeaways from our conversation with Jennifer Lee, Joshua Birk, and Kate Lessard. Agentforce content highlights from 2024 I started by asking the team which content from 2024 still holds up. Between “Automate This” and “How I Solved It”, Jenn puts a lot of great stuff out there. However, she pointed to her modular flows walkthrough on the blog. By breaking complicated processes down into smaller chunks, you make it easier to reuse bits and pieces of them in future solutions. Kate was more focused on the big picture. In her blog, “Introduction to Agentforce for Salesforce Admins,” she explains why admins are the perfect candidates to become the go-to AI expert in their organizations. Unsurprisingly, Josh got a little more technical with his answer, highlighting the growing importance of Retrieval Augmented Generation (RAG) and simple prompt engineering. He points to his interview with Nochum Klein about how he uses Agentforce to organize and search information security documentation at Salesforce. How Agentforce will help admins in 2025 The team also looked ahead to 2025, and I think it’s fun to look back on how things are shaping up now that it’s July. Kate was focused on how Agentforce will affect admins’ core responsibilities. The agents you build make life easier for both you and your users. However, she pointed out that security and AI governance will be critical as it becomes easier for more people to interact with your data. Jen was excited to launch two new video series in 2025. If you haven’t yet checked out “Automate with Agentforce”, it’s been incredibly helpful in showing all the cool new solutions you can build with AI. She also has a series about how she’s learning Agentforce, which is a great place to get started. Finally, Josh was excited about building AI agents that interact with documentation and metadata, enabling faster support, onboarding, and troubleshooting experiences. When combined with Slack integration, you can save your users so much time. What we’ll be saying at the end of 2025 To finish out the episode, I asked the team to make predictions for what we’ll be saying at the end of 2025. Josh: “It’s the end of 2025, and I can’t believe Salesforce Admins found Agentforce so easy to work with.” Kate: “It’s the end of 2025 and I can’t believe Salesforce Admins are creating dynamic experiences this advanced!” Jen: “It’s the end of 2025 and I can’t believe Salesforce Admins can now do things like troubleshoot user management issues faster than ever before!” It’s halfway through the year now, so how did we do? And how is your 2025 going? Are you working with Agentforce? Navigating new AI tools? Hit us up in the Trailblazer Community and share your admin wins and lessons. Podcast swag Learn more Jen’s 2024 blog post: Kate’s 2024 blog post: Kate’s other 2024 blog post: Josh’s 2024 Salesforce Admins Podcast Episode: Blog: Blog: Video Series: Video series: Video series: Admin Trailblazers Group Social Love our podcasts? Subscribe today or Full show transcript Mike Gerholdt: Hey, Salesforce Admins! It’s July, and we’re officially halfway through 2025—which makes it the perfect time to hit pause and reflect. Back on January 1, we gathered the Admin Evangelist Team—Jen Lee, Kate Lassard, and Josh Burke—for a special kickoff episode full of predictions, priorities, and plans for the year ahead. So today, we’re rebroadcasting that conversation as a mid-year check-in. Were we right? Were we way off? You decide. Give it a listen, and then let us know how your year as a Salesforce Admin is shaping up. Stay tuned—and see how far we’ve come. Welcome, everybody, to the podcast. There's a lot of people to introduce, so I'm going to go in reverse order. Jen, let's start off with you. Can you give us a brief introduction and some of the cool content you've created last year at Salesforce? Jennifer Lee: Sure, absolutely. I am Jen Lee, Lead Admin Evangelist, and you all probably know me as the host of Automate This or How I Solved It on our Salesforce Admins YouTube channel or for reading my mega blog for each release. Some of the things I'm really excited that I created last year was, again, I love Automate This. I love the How I Solved It, bringing in trailblazers who showcase their skills and what they've built in their orgs, and I really enjoyed writing the blog on building modular flows and thinking about really chunking out and building out smaller flows to get ready for your company in moving over to Agentforce. Mike Gerholdt: Nice and got Agentforce in the first minute of the show. Kate, you're our newest member. Let's go with you next. Kate Lassard: Hi, everyone. Kate Lassard, also a Lead Admin Evangelist here at Salesforce, and I have been here since August, so still diving in. This past year, I've been really focused on Agentforce and have put together some content including an intro to Agentforce blog post, talking about why admins make great AI specialists, and then also talking about advancing your admin career with dev fundamentals. So you might've seen me on the road at one of the Agentforce tours talking about core responsibilities, and in the new year, keep your eyes open for some new content about how emerging AI technologies fit into those admin core responsibilities. Mike Gerholdt: New stuff in the new year. I like it. And of course, Josh Burke. Josh Birk: Hi, everybody. I think actually I'm technically the oldest member of the team, but that's only by chronological age. I've been on the admin team for, gosh, I think it's a little over a year now, but I've been at Salesforce for coming on 15 years in 2025. All of them in evangelism in one form or another. And a lot of the things I've been trying to write about and post about and blog and video and some of our podcasts is really trying to explain through some of the more technical side of artificial intelligence. We have all of these terms. We've got things like LLMs, we've got RAGs, we've got vector databases, and honestly, frequently the concepts are far more simple than the tech terms actually seem to suggest. I'm on record for saying I don't like the term prompt engineering, for instance, because it sounds like you need some kind of union guy to come over and rewire your computer in order to, but is basically just talking to a conversational UI in the first place. So definitely see more of that in the near future, especially as our Agentforce features keep expanding into things like RAG and being able to pull in your knowledge libraries and your documentations and actually have a conversation with them. Mike Gerholdt: Awesome. Well, and of course anytime somebody goes to Trailhead, Josh, they're using something you invented. Josh Birk: I get a penny every time. Mike Gerholdt: Oh, a penny. Josh Birk: A whole penny. Mike Gerholdt: A whole penny. That's before taxes. Okay. Well even in 2025. So speaking of which, we would be like, if you're listening to this the day it comes out, you're in the second day of paying for a gym membership that you think you're going to use for the rest of the month, bet you're probably not going to make it to the 15th, most of us anyway. Or eating vegetables. That's usually the two things. At least those were my horribly tried out New Year's resolutions. But I'm going to start off with Jen. So Jen, it's 2025. We've got 363 days ahead of us as Salesforce admins. What are you, as of now, going to start focusing on? Jennifer Lee: Well, of course, Agentforce. Who isn't? I am very excited for two video series that I'm working on and hoping to put out soon, and this will focus around one will focus around automation and thinking ahead about how that factors into Agentforce and the strategy that you should think about and work through in bringing that along with your company. So that's going to be, I think about 10 to 12 episodes. We're looking to do monthly and then we'll be going through, and just like you all are learning Agentforce, I'm learning Agentforce, so I'm going to take you on my journey of how I'm working through various pieces. So really excited to put that type of video content out. Mike Gerholdt: Yeah, we're excited to see it. Kate, similar question, but a little bit different. You were most recently in the seat as an admin. What are some things you should be thinking of as a Salesforce admin in January that would help set you up for success for the rest of the year? Kate Lassard: That is a great question. With all the advancements in AI and with, as I said, admins being the ideal candidates at their organizations to become their internal AI specialists due to their unique understanding of business and user needs combined with their declarative Salesforce skillset, I'm going to be paying attention to new ways of managing admin responsibilities we already have in place. So one that is top of mind for me is security. New technology like Agentforce brings advanced value to admins, but it also brings new security concerns and the need for AI governance, so I have my eyes on the innovative ways that our admin community will continue to evolve in their roles while they're addressing these emerging technologies. Mike Gerholdt: Yeah, that's good. Josh, you probably work on some of the most advanced stuff, and half of the words that you said in your previous answer I didn't understand. Are there things that you're looking ahead at 2025 to understand that you weren't on your roadmap for 2024? Josh Birk: Yeah. Well, not to repeat myself too much, but it's been an interesting journey with our friend RAG, which is a Retrieval Augmented Generation, which is a very fancy way of saying that the AI models can absorb information that was not part of their original training, their original model. And typically this is going to be in the form of things like PDFs and documents and things like that. And the reason why I think it's an interesting journey is when we first started talking about RAG here internally at Salesforce, it was actually more about how our models were going to start getting trained on enterprise data. So we have all of this wonderful custom metadata, and it tells the models of what your custom objects look like, what your custom fields look like, and so they can consume that using RAG in a very nice and flexible way, and you don't have to rebuild an entire LLM for it. We didn't talk about it much back then because that was behind the scenes, under the covers. This is how the engine is running kind of thing. Now it's actually turning into a very common use case where people are putting in 500 page documents. Think about that mega blog that Jen was talking about. Think about having release notes available to you through a conversational UI kind of thing, so it's something that's fastly growing. And when it comes to those like, oh, what's that killer use case that we could get in to have Agentforce really do good things for our company, RAG is turning in one of those big solutions. Mike Gerholdt: And it's another acronym for us to learn. Josh Birk: Right. Mike Gerholdt: Let's pivot. We do a lot of things as events at Salesforce, and I know our admins, I always try to make it to a lot of events, but you can't make it to them all, right? FOMO is a thing. As you're planning your year, and Kate, I'll start off with you just to mix up the questions a little bit. How would you, as a Salesforce admin for 2025, look at events and what you could or could not go to? And Katie, bar the door. There's no restrictions. Kate Lassard: Oh my goodness. Well, I would love to go to all of them. FOMO is real, but not a possibility. I think it's really about prioritizing what you want to learn. So at the beginning of every year, I always try to think about what are my learning goals? What do I want to come out of this year? And whether it's a specific certification or something like learning more about Agentforce and AI governance and security, to go back to my last answer. And then finding the events that are in alignment with that. So obviously things like TDX and Dreamforce are going to be great options because there's going to be a huge amount of content, but the community conferences are also fantastic, and figuring out which ones thematically match your learning goals is really the way that I like to approach events and always maybe trying to fit in a fun new destination like Irish Dreaming this year. So if you've never been to Ireland, maybe that's a good one to add to your event bucket list. Mike Gerholdt: Wow, budget. Budget. Katie, bar. Kate Lassard: I didn't say my event bucket list. Mike Gerholdt: Yeah. No, that's cool. I mean, I love all of those Dreaming events. And Jen, to pivot to you, you speak at a lot of the Dreaming events. What are some of the things that, as an admin, you looked for and got out of going to some of these community-run conferences? Jennifer Lee: It's a different vibe from attending Salesforce events like TDX and Dreamforce, it's more low-key, but you're actually learning from the practitioner. So it's beyond the things that Salesforce is focusing on, but getting those really best practices and things like that from the people on the ground who are doing the thing that you're doing. And that's what really excites me about going to community events because you're able to learn from your peers and talk to them and ask questions. There might be something that you're working on that you ran into roadblock, but then you attend a session and then that opened your eyes and gave you ideas and inspired you to go back and try different things, so that's why I love going to community events and just seeing all the people in the community. Mike Gerholdt: And the time in between sessions is usually the most fun because it's when you connect with everybody. Jennifer Lee: Exactly. Mike Gerholdt: I love that. Josh, I'm not going to ask you to pick between your two favorite children of TDX and Salesforce, but I know you've been a part of both and building activations for both. I think very real in the minds of Salesforce admins is how do I justify going to one or both? What are some of the considerations that you would give admins as advice for planning their travel to one or both of those this year? Josh Birk: Yeah. Well, I think it's important to point out that we've kind of acknowledged TDX's role as more of a builder-centric conference, something that's really about enablement, and it's about knowledge, and it's about learning, and it's really about upscaling your career and your skill set. And so I think that's one justification if you're trying to convince your boss that you really need to go to both is that one's a really good learning experience, and the other one is a really good networking experience. Not that you're not going to learn from Dreamforce, not that you're not going to get the good sessions and the good breakouts and all of that, but it is definitely, we are kind of trying to make TDX a little bit more of its own thing on the map as opposed to just kind of a companion event to Dreamforce itself. And the advice I always give people is prepare, prepare, prepare. It's just like go to agenda builder, make sure you know which sessions ahead of time that you're really going to get the most bang for your buck out of. And always that constant reminder, if breakouts don't have repeats, you might want to show up early because if that's the session that you convinced your boss to send you on the plane for, make sure that you get a seat. So yeah, no, very much looking forward to them this year. Also looking forward to the community events. I'll echo what Jen said. So I used to joke, I'm not really a developer, I just play one on TV. I guess I'm not really a developer, but I just play one on TV. But it's like we need to hear from you. You're the people on the front lines. You're the people who are actually putting these use cases together. You're going to be the people finding the weird little niche things about these features that maybe when we kick the tires of them, we didn't consider it. So it's a great way to get that wonderful feedback loop kind of closed in. Mike Gerholdt: Yeah, no, I hear you. Plus going to TDX means sometimes you can eat at the restaurants around Moscone Center, right? There's some really good ones there. Always food. This podcast always has food, food and time travel, which is what we're going to do. So last question, and this is for everybody, and now everybody's sweating like, "Oh God, don't call on me first." Okay, Mike takes an hour and a half to ask a question. You have plenty of time. You can read War and Peace in the time it takes for me to ask a question, but we often time travel on the podcast. So we're going to fast-forward. It's now the end of December 2025. You go back and listen to this podcast, and Josh, I'm going to start with you because I didn't start with you on any of the questions. You have to complete this sentence. It's the end of 2025, and I can't believe Salesforce admins blank. Josh Birk: Can't believe Salesforce admins found Agentforce so easy to work with. And I can kind of say that safely because it's something I've seen on the road a lot, and it's part of our job is to make it like when you say, "I'm going to go develop an artificial intelligence custom agent." It sounds like something that you better put on your scholarly hat and really dig in deep. What we're finding is it's just really not that hard. So what I'm hoping is that as we do these enablement workshops and as we get the Trailhead Playgrounds, and people can go in and kick the tires, and they just want to give that a shout-out that that's here in the present, not just in the future, that you can go get a free version of this, and you can go to Trailhead, and you can start learning these things now. And I remember back when Lightning One components hit, and everybody's like, "Oh, what do we do?" It's like, "What do we do about LWC?" It's like, well, don't panic, but now is the time to learn it. Now is the time. And one of the things I've said many times in my keynotes is like, now is the time to determine your relationship with AI. It's your time to figure out what's going to make you more efficient, what's going to make you more productive, what's going to make your job happier. Mike Gerholdt: Okay, well, that was a great answer. Kate, you have to follow Frank Sinatra. Kate Lassard: Oh my gosh. Mike Gerholdt: So it's the end of 2025, and I can't believe Salesforce admins. Kate Lassard: Are creating dynamic user experiences this advanced. I think that a few years ago when Salesforce announced dynamic forms, that was such a game changer for admins allowing us to create more customized dynamic user experiences right on those record pages for our users. And with Agentforce and Prompt Builder, that adds completely new functionality that admins can leverage to really create those dynamic experiences for their users, for their customers. And I think we're going to see not only a resurgence of creating those dynamic user experiences, but now we have even more capability to do so, so I can't wait to see how advanced and how exciting those experiences are. ...
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From Static Pages to Smart Experiences: A Sneak Peek at Generative Canvas
07/03/2025
From Static Pages to Smart Experiences: A Sneak Peek at Generative Canvas
Today on the Salesforce Admins Podcast, we talk to Brinkal Janani, Director of Product Management at Salesforce. Join us as we chat about how Generative Canvas will help admins create dynamic, personalized user experiences. You should for the full episode, but here are a few takeaways from our conversation with Brinkal Janani. What is Generative Canvas? Brinkal was on the team of engineers that built Dynamic Forms. Since then, he’s been looking for new ways to help admins build dynamic user experiences without code. That’s why I was so excited to sit down with him and hear about his latest project: Generative Canvas. Generative Canvas allows Salesforce Admins to create interactive, persistent layouts by prompting AI agents. Basically, you ask an agent to run an analysis or summarize some records and it’ll respond with a Lightning Component that you can drop into your layout. Admins configure the agents, connect the data, and suddenly, their users can build their own dynamic, personalized UX. Persistent and personalized user experiences One of the biggest challenges for admins is anticipating what your users are going to need in terms of data and workflows. Static tools like Lightning Page Builder and Dynamic Forms are great as long as you have the right requirements. But making adjustments means a lot of back-and-forth, especially when you have to balance the needs of several different users. Generative Canvas UIs are persistent, but they’re also personalized. The admin still has control over what data can be used, but the user has control over how they see it. Instead of going through all those extra steps, they just need to ask an agent for what they want and drop the Lightning Component directly into their own individual, personalized UI. A hybrid future for admins Brinkal envisions a hybrid future where static and dynamic tools coexist. Admins might start building with Lightning pages, but move into Generative Canvas when deeper interaction is required. This hybrid approach ensures flexibility while harnessing the power of AI-driven customization. If all of this sounds a little vague to you, I highly recommend watching the demo video to understand what it looks like in action. As Brinkal says, the future is dynamic, personalized, and built with no code. For more about Generative Canvas from Brinkal, make sure to listen to the full episode. And don’t forget to subscribe to the Salesforce Admins Podcast. Podcast swag Learn more Help Article: Release Notes: Admin Trailblazers Group Social Full show transcript Mike Gerholdt: This week on the Salesforce Admins Podcast, we're diving into the future of AI-powered customization with Brinkal Janani. Now Brinkal is a product manager here at Salesforce and he's leading the charge on Lightning App Builder and AI-generated apps. Today, specifically we're talking about Generative Canvas, forward-looking statement. I bet it's going to get renamed. So we're going to call it Generative Canvas for now, but literally watch the video that's in the show notes. This thing is so cool because it's going to reimagine how admins, how our users can interact with data and build dynamic experiences. And my two most favorite words, without code. Now, before we jump in, I want to make sure you're subscribed to the Salesforce Admins Podcast. That way when a new episode like this drops, boom, you can listen to it. I don't want you to miss out, so be sure to pay attention in whatever app you are using to either press that follow or subscribe button. So with that, let's get Brinkal on the podcast. So Brinkal, welcome to the podcast. Brinkal Janani: Thanks, Mike, for having me. Mike Gerholdt: Well, we're fresh off the heels of TDX and with AI and everything going on, I feel like the metaphor I've used of how fast technology changing is jumping out of a plane, it's moving very fast. I feel like it's jumping out of a plane and skydiving superfast towards the earth because with AI, everything's changing. And we're going to talk about some of the really cool stuff that you're working on on the platform, but let's get started with just learning a little bit more about Brinkal and what you do at Salesforce. So why don't you tell us what you do and some of the stuff that you work on? Brinkal Janani: Sure. Mike, as you guys know, I'm Brinkal Janani and I've been at Salesforce for a little over than nine years now, and throughout my career at Salesforce. I've played various roles. I started my career as a software engineer in test, eventually transitioned to full stack software engineer, and now I'm a product manager overseeing a couple of product portfolios, namely Lighting App Builder and generating apps using AI. And that's where my focus is right now. Mike Gerholdt: Yeah, I feel like everybody at Salesforce working on AI stuff, right? Brinkal Janani: Yeah. And I'm glad to see whatever we're building at Salesforce is for the better. So I'm glad that to give the analogy, but that also means we are doing something that's fast-paced and would provide incremental value to our customers. Mike Gerholdt: Absolutely. So you want to talk about, and this is where I will insert forward-looking statement because I feel like this is probably going to change names. So as of this recording, it's currently known as what, Generative Canvas? Is that right? Brinkal Janani: That is correct, yes. Mike Gerholdt: Okay. Let's talk about as known as Generative Canvas right now. Brinkal Janani: Yeah, so I'm glad to talk about this project in particular because there's a history to it. I don't know if most of you know this or not, but I'm familiar that admins love concepts such as Dynamic Forms, Lightning Pages and Lightning App Builder. I mean, those are some of the popular features that admins love to play and use. And one of the fun fact that I wanted to also share was I was one of the original engineers in the team who built Dynamic Forms when it went tiered. So I have quite a bit of understanding on the expectations that admins have from the no-code tools like Lightning App Builder and the experiences they ship to our end users. And for years I've seen Salesforce admin utilize technologies such as Lightning App Builder, Dynamic Forms, even Page Layouts to control how the UI appears, period. And these no-code tools are the best and have been the best in what they do, but it's also nearly impossible to anticipate the full spectrum that the end users would need in terms of data and workflows, which is where Generative Canvas as a technology becomes really important. It unlocks a whole new way of interacting with data and workflow. So the general concept of Generative Canvas is, it goes beyond static user interfaces to more interactive and dynamic ones where you're talking to an agent and having those responses stored as Lightning components on the layout. That's the crux of it. Mike Gerholdt: Yeah, this is one of those where the audio podcast has limitations, but I was watching the video and I'm thinking what you're working on is so far into the future because where we're at now with agents and admin, building agents is we add the agent, enable them, and they can be anywhere in Salesforce and we just ask them a text question. But this is actually really building a visual, well you call it a Canvas, a visual Canvas of chats plus also text and documents, right, meeting notes? Brinkal Janani: Yeah, that is correct. I think what would really help understand what the concept is, it's a good example. A good example that we are starting off from is tackling meeting preparation use cases. We all have been in situations where we have back-to-back schedules where we don't even get enough time to see who we are meeting next. And I think that's true for most of us who will be listening in into this podcast, or have been in this situation. So imagine a sales executive who is handling multiple accounts and is literally in back-to-back situations with meetings when it comes to talking to these accounts and customers. And what it really is, and it's what you've seen with our customers, is like a very personalized approach, a personalized pitch. And executives not having enough time to prep that pitch, or even prepare for that meeting, has been the biggest disadvantage. And even if they do get time, they usually go to multiple UIs or even leverage multiple tools to be able to create that insight, which is why this was the first use case we felt is the best fit to tackle with Generative Canvas. Because Generative Canvas will make it super easy for any executive starting with sales executives to focus on the job to be done, and not a tool. And the reason I say this is because it's a single-page application where they are interacting with the agents on the backend. And as I said, agents are responding via text, via components that you put and organize on the UI. And not just that, you can personalize this layout or UI by moving these responses/components around on the Canvas and even resizing them so it exactly fits the way you would have imagined the UI could look like and carry this UI into the meeting so you have something to talk about, you have talking points to break the ice, or even you have insights if you want to cross-sell or upsell any of our products. So I think that example really nails the value of what we are trying to achieve with Generative Canvas. And obviously it's a start and we are going to grow from this use case to multiple other use cases, but hopefully this shows a value. Mike Gerholdt: So I think the really cool part is you're thinking of quantitative and qualitative data because a lot of that, there's quantitative data, there's stuff that we can actually see in Salesforce. You brought up the sales example like number of opportunities or sum total of opportunities on this account. But the second part where your Canvas brings it together is all the qualitative data, which is all of that information, the chats, the extra documents, the insight that people need when they walk into a room to have that deeper level conversation as opposed to just the data that's in front of them. Brinkal Janani: That is correct, and which is why I also feel like the future experiences is going to be both like a static experience and a dynamic one. I foresee living us in a very hybrid world where technology such as Generative Canvas will exist and coexist with technology such as Lighting Pages. To your point on Canvas, it's beyond static data. You get these insights and summaries that AI is able to generate and piece from the vast pool of data that we have in Data Cloud and at Salesforce. And that's the essence of it. Not just that, but once we start building in and start pulling data from public domain, you should be able to also get that data on the Canvas along with this data that's stored in CRM in your org. Mike Gerholdt: Just help me elaborate on that. What would be data pulling from the public domain? What would be example of that? Brinkal Janani: Example would be I'd like to learn more about the competitors of my current account. What is people, what is accounts, and what are they doing? So using that data, just having that competitive analysis and the most present one, which can only be learned by pulling the data from the public domain, the sales executive can use this information and potentially create a cross-sell pitch or upsell pitch for the existing customer. Just like having that lens, having that view inside can really help them create a personalized pitch for the customers. Mike Gerholdt: Do you envision, and this is all me just thinking like, oh, this is kind of cool. So once somebody creates a Canvas, let's say for an account, would you envision that they would go back to that and then of course it would live update? Because obviously if you're pulling in news articles, it could do that. Like say six months comes down the line and the customer's up for a renewal, you'd want to go back to that same Canvas that you used to close the deal. Right? Brinkal Janani: That's a great point, Mike. And I think one thing that I also want you to touch about Generative Canvas is that this Canvas is, as you said, are persistent, which means once you create this Canvas, they are there, they're part of your org and you can obviously revisit them. And obviously since Canvas is based on data, both static, and data coming from public domain, you would want to make sure they're still relevant, right? Because even the record details might have changed, a number of little records might have changed, a whole lot of data. The data that existed when the Canvas was created might be completely different from what exists right now. So having an ability to refresh the Canvas entirely would be essential to keeping Canvas not just persistent, but also relevant. Mike Gerholdt: Yeah. Just on a non-Generative Canvas note, you mentioned in your intro that you'd also worked on Dynamic Forms, which I love to demo because I'm from that period of time when you couldn't have Dynamic Forms. Well, you could. My Dynamic Form was two different page layouts and a workflow rule to flip the page layout. That was my faking Dynamic Forms. What got you into the visual part of working in technology? I mean, it's obviously something you're really good at and something you're really passionate about. Brinkal Janani: So I think I need to share this. When I was interviewing with Salesforce, I was actually interviewing the day right before my wedding. Mike Gerholdt: Whoa. Brinkal Janani: And the only reason I did this, and I'll never do this obviously again- Mike Gerholdt: Well, I hope you don't have to get married again, in case your wife's listening. Brinkal Janani: ... is because I knew what Salesforce was doing and what it continues doing, it's like creating these products which also create this community and just uplevels a whole lot of folks with the career insights and the career paths. And that is huge and that really resonated with me. And ever since my career at Salesforce, I've played multiple roles. My focus has always been delivering value for admins through no-code tools and specifically in my case, it's Lighting App Builder. So being an engineer or being a product manager, my focus has been how do I help admins unlock value for the end users through UI using no-code tools? And that has been my problem statement from day one at Salesforce, and which is why I'm super exciting to see how the feature's set, how the technology's evolving from beyond the static layouts in terms of Lighting Pages to a more dynamic world where everything is personalized, everything's AI driven. But as I said earlier, I also feel like the reality, the future is mostly hybrid with both technologies coexisting seamlessly. Mike Gerholdt: When you say hybrid, do you mean humans and technology or what do you mean by hybrid? Brinkal Janani: When I say hybrid, I think I see a world where it's not completely one-sided where you only have static experiences or you only have dynamic experiences. When I say hybrid, I mean I see a world where you have both kind of experiences, probably start from a static experience to a Lighting Page, and eventually transition to a more dynamic experience through technology such as a new Canvas where you're conversing with a tool, where you're conversing with an agent, and updating the layout on the fly. Mike Gerholdt: Yeah, okay. And everything turned out okay at the wedding, I'm assuming? Brinkal Janani: Yes. Mike Gerholdt: Okay, good. Brinkal Janani: Safe to say that. Mike Gerholdt: Well, we know the job thing worked out because you're on the podcast. So I don't know I've ever had anybody on that interviewed before their wedding day. But good for you. When you sit down and think of all of the stuff that AI has to interact with now, and what you're working on for this Generative Canvas, I'm not an engineer, but it's very easy to get caught up in the here and now. How are you trying to plan for two to three year out technology that you might not even know exists and pull that in for the next generation of Generative Canvas? I mean, you have to know you're building something out of Minority Report, right? Brinkal Janani: And I think that's a great question again, Mike. To be honest with you, in this period of time, it's extremely difficult to even look out two years out in advance just because the pace of technology is changing so drastically. But one thing that remains constant, regardless of what period we are in, are the problems that you want to solve for your customer base. Those are not going away. Eventually technology needs to be able to solve customer problems. So my focus always has been less on the technology itself, but figuring out the right problem set to solve in the right period of time using the right technology, and that's what I want to achieve. And that's what I've always been trying to achieve. Two different sets of technologies. So eventually in time technologies might change, but you still have the same problem set to deal with. And solving some problem sets might become just easier as in when technologies evolve. And I think we just need to keep on revisiting that list of problems that you have that you want to solve for your customers. Mike Gerholdt: Yeah. Last question, because I threw some hard ones at you, but you also came with the wedding thing. That's pretty unexpected. When your... I mean, man, this is so, "In the future we're going to have flying cars, but we don't know." When you're planning through and looking for inspiration, this is the one thing that I think I learned it from a long time ago, I had a guest on the podcast that talked about board games and how they found inspiration in board games when they were creating a product in Salesforce. Because you work in very visual products, where do you go to find inspiration for ideas like for Generative Canvas that you're working on? Brinkal Janani: That's a tough question again, Mike, Mike Gerholdt: I don't ask easy ones. Nobody comes on for easy questions. Brinkal Janani: All right. Point taken. I think the answer is two-folded, one is very personal and one is more cooperative. I'll start with the personal one. I'm also father to a three-year-old daughter. Mike Gerholdt: Oh, boy. Brinkal Janani: And it's been quite a journey, and mostly good. The reason she is an inspiration is because it's so amazing to see how a creature of such small size can learn and absorb from visual experiences, from sensory experiences, so quick. And depending on what the experience is, the message that they learn is drastically different. And I know it seems like a very far-fetched connection, but if you tie the dots, it's actually not that far. That is my daughter has been an inspiration just to keep my mindset more agile and rapidly adopt with changing environment and learn from it and keep on delivering value. So that has been something that I'm really grateful for. The other thing is a lot of people, we have an amazing set of people in the world right now and everybody's doing something very amazing. So this thing connected, and in the know on what's happening around you, also serves a good idea for inspiration. Mike Gerholdt: Yeah, no, I mean think a lot of us are still wrapping our heads around... I have a good friend of mine has a young child too, and he told me the other day, "He just ran up to the TV and started touching it, expecting it to do things," much like his phone. And that to me is like, whoa, because that's the world they live in. As a parting gift, if admins are...
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What Can Salesforce Admins Do with Slack and Agents?
06/26/2025
What Can Salesforce Admins Do with Slack and Agents?
Today on the Salesforce Admins Podcast, we talk to Kurtis Kemple, Senior Director of Developer Relations at Slack. Join us as we chat about what’s possible when you combine Slack, Salesforce, and AI agents. You should subscribe for the full episode, but here are a few takeaways from our conversation with Kurtis Kemple. Starting at square one in tech Kurtis’s path to his career in tech is truly inspiring. Not only is he a completely self-taught programmer, but he learned those skills while incarcerated. It was hard to get any sort of job when he got out, let alone convince someone to take a chance on him as a software engineer. Today, Kurtis is the Senior Director of Developer Relations for Slack. His role is primarily focused on advocacy, with a focus on improving the developer experience through thoughtful product design and community input. So he’s the perfect person to talk to about what’s possible with Slack, Salesforce, and AI agents. Slack is the OS for work When it comes to collaborating with your team, Kurtis sees Slack as the OS for work. It’s a space to bring together everything you need—your communications, your documents, your data—all in one place so you can start getting things done. Switching contexts can be a productivity killer. That’s why Slack’s integration with Salesforce is so powerful, because it allows you to have everything right at your fingertips without needing to go back and forth between windows. Whether you’re looking at Salesforce data in Slack to have a conversation with a co-worker about an opportunity, or updating your team on what you’re building in Salesforce, seamless authentication means you can do everything from wherever you happen to be working without having to switch back and forth. Agents and automation inside Slack The possibilities are even more exciting when you throw Agentforce into the mix. As Kurtis points out, Slack actions are part of the list of standard actions. That means you can build custom agents that use data from either platform to launch workflows, run a quick analysis, and much more. Kurtis also gets into how you can customize Agentforce by plugging in various LLM libraries, or connecting it with external services or authentication providers. As he explains, prompt templates are powerful tools for controlling your agents’ responses so that they fit into your business processes. This episode is a deep dive into everything you can do with Agentforce and Slack, so be sure to take a listen. And don’t forget to subscribe to the Salesforce Admins Podcast to catch us every Thursday. Podcast swag Learn more Blog: Trailhead: Trailhead: Salesforce Admins Podcast Episode: Admin Trailblazers Group Social Full Transcript Josh Birk: Hello, Salesforce admins, your guest host Josh Birk here. Today on the show, we're going to welcome Kurtis Kemple, who's overrunning developer advocacy at Slack. We're going to talk about Slack, we're going to talk about AI, we're going to talk about Kurt's beginnings, and this was a great interview. Very happy we got it on tape. And so, let's go right over to Kurt. All right. Today on the show we welcome Kurtis Kemple of Salesforce Developer Advocacy. Kurt, welcome to the show. Kurtis Kemple: It's a pleasure to be here. Thank you so much for having me. Josh Birk: So let's start, I usually start talking about people's early years. And you have a very, let's not say unique, but a very interesting early days of getting into computing. You're self-taught in web development and you learn that in prison. Correct? Kurtis Kemple: Yeah, that's correct. I prefer to think of it more as self-guided. I'd like to take all the credit, but I was still reading books, watching YouTube videos, paying for courses. So you're still creating a learning environment more so than just I had... Well, in prison I did have nothing, but then I just opened a laptop and just essentially went at code with nothing. I don't want to essentially leave out all the people who I wouldn't be here without them. Josh Birk: Did you have an interest in computers beforehand or was it just sort of a, "Here's this moment in my life and I want to make changes, and I want to learn something new"? Kurtis Kemple: Well, it was definitely that second one, but not related to code. So it was pure happenstance. Prior to incarceration, I had very limited experience in technology. I had a pager once when I was 18, cell phones were coming out, and I would download music off LimeWire. That was it. I had to type with two fingers, like pecking at the keyboard. Josh Birk: Did the looking over the keys with the finger on either side of it? Yeah. Kurtis Kemple: Oh my gosh, absolutely. Absolutely. Josh Birk: I also love doing interviews like this because we always accidentally date ourselves. Kurtis Kemple: Oh, my lord. Yeah. Josh Birk: In some wonderful way. Kurtis Kemple: I know people are going like, "What's a pager?" They're like, "Oh, I've seen those on TV." Josh Birk: I know, right? "Did they beep or something like that? They had numbers on them?" Yeah. Actually, I didn't get a cell phone for a long time because my dad's a doctor and he had a pager, and I remember hating the fact that he would be taken away from the dinner table because his pager is on his belt. I'm like, "Oh, I don't want to have constant access to people always being able to call me." And now, of course, I'm the dude that my wife slaps my wrist because I'm picking up the cell phone during dinner with friends. Kurtis Kemple: Absolutely. Josh Birk: Just as addicted as everybody else. So tell me a little bit, 'cause tech is not the easiest to break into, and there's ageism, there's sexism, there's racism, there's the old white guy syndrome, all this kind of stuff. With a record of a conviction, what challenges were you facing there? Kurtis Kemple: Sheesh know, I'd say that- Josh Birk: How many hours do we have? Kurtis Kemple: Honestly, honestly. Look, this is for all you PMs out there, I'm going to throw in a little product analogy, but there's a ton of upfront friction. It's like they would never let me get through to the other side to realize the value. So it's like having that record, it's immediately, oh, that's like, "I don't want to mess with that." They had no idea that on the flip side of that, I was willing to work so hard to prove myself. So hard. And so, I think there's two sides to every coin, but it was a big blocker. It's just immediate nos. You have conversations with people and they're like, "Oh, that's interesting." And then they find out about the record, or back then you had to check a box, "Have you been convicted of a felony in the last seven years or since you've got out?" And it's like, "Yeah. Yeah, I have. But I thought the whole point of going through half a decade of incarceration was that I did that. I paid my dues." But no, you're doing time for forever after you get out in the US, honestly. Josh Birk: Yeah. Well, I am very glad that you have managed to break your way into tech and join us. Tell me a little bit about your current job. Kurtis Kemple: Yeah, so from there all the way learning and coding, I went through an entire career in software engineering, and then I ended up making a switch to DevRel about eight years ago. And then I went from IC up in DevRel, really, up to leadership. And so now, I'm senior director of developer relations here at Salesforce, and I focus on Slack, Slack platform. Josh Birk: And tell me a few of those highlights, because you've worked for companies like, if I'm remembering your CV correctly, like Amazon. Correct? Kurtis Kemple: Yeah, I've worked for a ton of pretty big companies, some that might not be as well known, but you'd know them in certain verticals. So I worked at Integral Ad Science, which is actually, if you've ever seen an ad, they're the analytics platform behind the analytics platforms. So it was a really big one. And then from there, a bunch of places that culminated with my last job as a full-time engineer. I was the tech lead of the UI team at Major League Soccer. And so we built- Josh Birk: Cool. Kurtis Kemple: Yeah, it was a really fun one. So we built all the interfaces that fans interface with, like user interface, literally, chatbots, Roku, Fire TV, websites, mobile apps. You name it, we built it. Josh Birk: Nice. Very, very nice. Now, this is kind of a personal question for myself because it's one I get frequently, and I apparently struggle to answer it correctly because I still have people in my life who have no idea what I do. What is developer evangelism or advocacy? Which of the labels or do you land ,on evangelist or advocate? Kurtis Kemple: So, I think at any point, you might be doing a bit of both in reality in these days, but if we wanted to put a label on it, you could say evangelism is more outbound-driven. Advocacy, ideally you're doing a lot of inbound. We're advocating, both internally and externally, we're providing feedback. I would say I lean heavily, I'm a very product-driven person, so lean on the advocacy. I want to unlock better developer experience through improvements to the product. Josh Birk: Got it. Kurtis Kemple: That's my main thing. But also, I love getting out there and just talking [inaudible 00:06:54] and engaging with people, interestingly enough, because I am introverted, but I love it. I absolutely love it. Josh Birk: It's such an interesting trend in advocacy and evangelism. I remember having a beer with a former evangelist actually, and I'm like, "Well, you know I'm a closet introvert. Right?" He's like, "No, you're not." I'm like, "No, dude." Kurtis Kemple: Yeah, they have no idea. Josh Birk: "You have no idea." One of the first things I told my therapist is, "I have raging social anxiety, and so I decided to go into public speaking." Don't ask me why. Don't ask me why. Kurtis Kemple: "I wanted to live my worst fear daily." Josh Birk: Right, exactly. Exactly. Oh, yeah. Okay. So our focus is admins, and what I'm kind of curious is, because first of all, I'm a huge Slack fan. And it's one of the purchases that I'm like, "Oh, I get this one." Sometimes Mark buys a company, I'm like, "I don't know who they are. I don't know why we would use them." First of all, I'm very glad we purchased Slack because it finally answered an age-old question of which IM service should we use to talk to our teammates? And yeah, finally have a- Kurtis Kemple: Really? Josh Birk: Oh, it was horrible. It was G-Chat and it was Top This, and then there's Chatter, and to have everybody agree was great. But how do you see, in the Salesforce ecosystem, what is Slack's role as a product? Kurtis Kemple: Yeah. And this is so great 'cause this ties right into administration as well. It is the operating system, without a doubt, that is, I don't know, I think of a computer, extrapolating out a bit higher level. It is aggregating all of the useful tools, access to information, communication channels, but that is very broad, very general. It's covering it for everything. Slack narrows in onto one particular aspect of your life, work. Or actually, I won't even say work, but I will say collaborative organization and communication, 'cause we have millions of communities on Slack as well. And yeah, I think that it's about that. Honestly, it's that. It's an operating system to help you organize and be productive and get things done. And especially now when you put the lens of work on it, it becomes even more valuable. That starts turning into dollars. And it's tangible, tracks billions of dollars. Josh Birk: Yeah. Yeah. And I really love positioning it as it's kernel, is kind of the... Oh gosh, I just made an OS pun when I didn't mean to. Kernel is sort of that collaborative tool, but then there's all these other layers to it to help people be more productive and be more collaborative. And over the years, we've had tighter integrations with Slack and Salesforce. What are some of the key integrations that come to mind when I'm using Slack, but I'm also trying to interface with Salesforce? Kurtis Kemple: Salesforce channels. Without a doubt, if those are not set up, oh my Lord, it is a game changer. So quick links at the top, taking action within Salesforce. Again, for me, it's like the work operating system, I don't want to switch context. I don't care if it's to switch a window for three seconds to click a button, or I have to go out there and do a bunch of other things, it breaks the flow of work. And to me, what I'm actually most excited about is when you look at a Salesforce channel, you've got your conversation. Let's say it's related to whatever, like an account, there might be your opportunities, or the health score or recent notes, and all this stuff is right there in the team channel as soon as you drop in. And I'm sure that we use Slack more than most people use Slack 'cause we are Slack and Salesforce. But if you are starting to take advantage of those tools, I've got all my documents related to the DevRel team, in our Dev Rel channel. It's just so convenient. But when you integrate other systems in that, like Salesforce, and now I just have a canvas, but it's real time updates and back and forth collaboration. Okay, my job keeps me mostly in Salesforce platform. A, it's day to day business as usual, but if I spend most of my time in Slack, I'm no longer breaking the flow of work, even if it is just a few times, that can really have an effect, compounded. So I would say definitely that. And now, the counterpart to that is we've got the Slack channels in Salesforce. Josh Birk: That's so cool. That's so cool. Is that GA? How do people turn that on? Or is it just there? Kurtis Kemple: It is GA. How do the people turn it on? I think it's just there if you already have things connected. So if you set up a Salesforce channel connection, it will show up for you in the Slack, in the Slack UI with the Slack way of doing things. And if you're in Salesforce, then you get the Slack channel, messaging still available, everyone conversation one place, but you have your Salesforce UI that you've custom designed and built around you so that you can do your work more efficiently. I'm sorry, I swear I'll let you talk right after this, but you hit on something so key, I swear to God. Josh Birk: No, go, go, go. Kurtis Kemple: It took us a while to get here. Look at this. We're like three, four years into this thing. More, more. But when you look at how to thoughtfully integrate something like Slack and Salesforce, there's going to be some trial and error. And I know people wanted it faster and I wish we gave it to them, but I'm actually just happy that the things we're building now are so much in the flow of work. There's some things coming up that I don't know if I can talk about. I should have ran through the list, but I cannot wait. Cannot wait for folks to see 'cause bridging Salesforce and Slack in ways that are just amazing, and are really going to close the gap for ease of use and just being able to stay where you're meant to be and do your job. Josh Birk: Nice, nice. I want to touch on that a little bit, but I also want to kind of applaud the engineering team over there, because the demos I've done, and I'm old, I've done integrations. My first application was a CGI, getting things to work, but integrating systems sometimes isn't easy. The seamless OAuth between Slack and Salesforce is pretty cool. The idea that you have this mirror user and then you just tell Salesforce, "This is my user over here, go be Slack." And then I'm like, "What do you mean there's no OAuth window? What do you mean I don't have to worry on tokens?" Kurtis Kemple: You're already you. You're already you. Josh Birk: Yeah. Kurtis Kemple: Yeah. Josh Birk: Yeah. Did you have a follow up there, or? Kurtis Kemple: I do. I do, I do, I do, I do. Yeah. So Seamless OAuth I think is foundational. As a matter of fact, I see this as foundational to the entire Salesforce ecosystem. And so now that's seamless, all right, so here's the deal. Imagine now it's like, oh, click of a button, I deploy a Slack workspace for my Salesforce org. That's awesome. But now, it's like I want to also extend my operating system, my Slack org, so I want to start building and deploying apps. Well, what if that user was also seamless off to Heroku and you could just deploy your apps immediately to Heroku? And what if you wanted to use MuleSoft APIs to further extend it? But guess what? You're the same user there, too. So now, it's like you can immediately spin up these really ridonkulous, enterprise-grade-ready, all seamlessly authenticated systems and just go to town. Josh Birk: Right. Well, and that really starts to put the cap on the concept of it being an operating system. Kurtis Kemple: Bingo. Josh Birk: It's Slack, it's Salesforce, it's MuleSoft, it's Heroku, it's whatever in our ecosystem that you have to touch. And I'm going to be very honest, when canvases really became a thing, I was kind of like, "Okay, I've got docs, I've got this kind of stuff." And then our team recently tasked me with trying to track some pilot features, and I was struggling with, "Well, where should this live?" Because of course, this is not going to surprise you, my first instinct was, "Custom object, throw it in the enterprise org that we all collaborate on, keep them as records, blah, blah, blah, blah." Kurtis Kemple: Yeah. Yeah. Josh Birk: And then- Kurtis Kemple: Permissions, groups, we're all good to go. Right? Josh Birk: Right. And then I thought about exactly what you were talking about before, how many touch points is that for somebody to go and read something that they're not... This is something people are intended to scan. Kurtis Kemple: That's it. Josh Birk: This isn't a research doc. It's a "Here are some things to think about in front of Dreamforce." And I'm like, "That's why I put it into a canvas." Kurtis Kemple: That's it. Josh Birk: It's right there and you can just click that button and go. Now, speaking of OSs and conversational UIs, because I think this touches a little bit on what you just said about deploying workspaces and things like that, because we now have Slack actions in Agentforce as standard actions. Can you tell me a little bit about those? Kurtis Kemple: Yes, I absolutely can. So, you want to be able to take action in Slack from Agentforce. It's like if that is the work operating system and agents are truly supposed to be doing work on my behalf, I want those reports summarized and put into a canvas and added to my channel. I want to set up DMs maybe with somebody from customer success and sales, or IT and wherever. I think as we see Agentforce start to grow more in maturity, we're going to need to see a lot more Slack actions. And fun fact, like little shout out to the DevRel team over here. If you want to extend beyond the Slack actions that exist, we've already got the docs all set up for you for building custom Slack actions for Agentforce. So you can literally just, world is your oyster with Slack. And technically, they work for any service. We're not doing anything particularly bespoke. But it's nice, because you can set up a Slack app which gives you all the proper authentication to either be you or a bot, depending on how you want to set all that up. And then you can now start taking that even further. You can have agents doing things on your behalf, like responding to messages, or summarizing things and aggregating stuff, updating records in Salesforce, or updating channels and canvases and lists within Slack, kicking off Slack work flows, all kinds of stuff. But to be honest, that's all very well and good, except I think until we get agents more deeply integrated into the UI of Slack, into your flow of work, we're just scratching the surface. And we're working on some cool stuff now that you'll see, but...
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Why Small Businesses Benefit from Agentforce Right Now
06/19/2025
Why Small Businesses Benefit from Agentforce Right Now
Today on the Salesforce Admins Podcast, we talk to Michael Rose, Senior Director of SMB Solution Engineering at Salesforce. Join us as we chat about the ever-evolving role of the Salesforce Admin and why now’s the time to start exploring what AI can do for your org. You should for the full episode, but here are a few takeaways from our conversation with Michael Rose. The parallel between admins and solution engineers It’s always a pleasure to sit down and talk about Salesforce with Mike Rose. In his new role as Senior Director of SMB Solution Engineering, he has a lot to share with the admin community about what he’s seeing with small to medium-sized businesses coming onto the platform. Mike points out that admins and his team of solution engineers share a core responsibility: evangelism. For both, your job is to make the case for how Salesforce implementation can help your organization achieve its business goals. The integration challenges of smaller orgs As Mike likes to joke, many SMBs are running some version of what Mike jokingly calls POIM (Post-It On Monitor) integration. As in, someone comes over with a sticky note (or Excel file) and asks you to put that info into Salesforce. “That's all integration,” he says, “it is taking that data and putting it somewhere where it can be more valuable.” These workflows can be hard to change, and that’s because they work well enough to get the job done. As Mike explains, the opportunity cost of things like errors, bottlenecks, and latency doesn’t factor into the equation. It’s hard to envision a world where an entire business process could happen automatically. For Mike, the next frontier of this conversation is Agentforce. You can develop bespoke, enterprise-grade AI solutions tailored specifically for your business, but that kind of power is hard to wrap your head around when you’re still trying to limit the number of sticky notes circulating around the office. Why admins are the key to unlocking the power of AI As AI solutions continue to evolve, Salesforce Admins will play a critical role in bridging the gap between humans and technology. As Mike says, “there is always going to be a border that has customs agents and couriers and envoys working across that human intelligence and machine intelligence boundary.” Agentforce is evolving so rapidly that even the Solution Engineering team is struggling to keep up to date. So Mike recommends getting your hands dirty as soon as possible, either by spinning up a developer org or turning on Salesforce Foundations. There’s a lot more great stuff from Mike in this episode, so be sure to take a listen. And don’t forget to subscribe to the Salesforce Admins Podcast to catch us every Thursday. Podcast swag Learn more Admin Trailblazers Group Social Full show transcript Michael: This week on the Salesforce Admins Podcast, we're thrilled to welcome back Mike Rose, a 12-year Salesforce veteran who has a new role and some fresh insights. Mike and I get into the real talk about what it's like supporting small to medium businesses, the ever-evolving role of the Salesforce admin, and how tools like Agentforce are really changing the game. Now, whether you're a full-time admin or you're wearing five hats in your org, this episode speaks your language. Mike also shares why now is the best time to roll up your sleeves and start exploring AI in your sandbox. So you've already hit play on this episode, get ready to feel seen, and let's get Mike back on the podcast. So Mike, welcome back to the podcast. Mike Rose: It's such a pleasure, Michael. I have been a long-time listener and repeat caller, but very glad to be back after years. Michael: I know. I feel like we used to do World Tours and we'd run into each other like we need to do a podcast together. Mike Rose: It's true. Michael: And then we'd do a random podcast together. And then this last time I just saw you on Slack. I was like, I haven't had Mike on the podcast in a while. Mike Rose: It's true. And I actually said, "Yes, absolutely, let's do it." And then, I think it was a month of gap before I got back to you and then you were on vacation. By the way, folks, if you find yourselves running into the consequences of your own inaction, say, in the middle of the night on a weekend, and you say, "Oh, I really should reach out to that person, but I don't want to do it right now, because that's just awkward." Slack's scheduled messages are your friend. Michael: I'm telling you, I use Slacks' scheduled messages all the time, especially when I go on vacation, I can schedule stuff. Or the best is when you have a team that's in a different time zone. So we'll have a team, let's see when this airs, the London event will be happening/happened, and I can schedule stuff and it looks like I just schedule it right for 8:00 A.M. their time, but I'm off in sleepy land. Mike Rose: I have to say that I have one of my managers who reports up to me is on maternity leave right now, and she has set Hari Seldon Foundation style messages that pop up in Slack and they say, "Hi, it's the ghost of Gab here to tell you." And it's hilarious and it's great because it's all the reminders that otherwise I would have to remember to do, like do your Q2 check ins and do this. But what's particularly funny is that because she branded it as the ghost of Gabrielle, the reaction emoji that people are using to respond to those messages is the face of Fred from Scooby-Doo reacting in terror to a ghost. I didn't come up with this. One of her team members reacted that way. I was like, oh, no, no, no, no, this is it. Now, everybody has to react that way. It's so much fun to see these little microculture moments that build a custom or build a tradition around something as simple as an emoji response. But yes, scheduled messages, you can just sit down and knock out a quarter's worth of admin if you're going to be out and do it all pre-programmed. It's very handy. Michael: I would say, as a best practice, and I'm looking at a scheduled message that somebody had sent me over the weekend. They italicized, "Hey, by the way, this is a scheduled message." Mike Rose: Oh, that's really smart. That's really smart. Michael: Just in case you want to, not in the heat of a moment. Mike Rose: Well, it's also so awkward when there's something that you've been working on with someone and you set the scheduled message for 9:00 A.M. their time on a Monday, only to discover that at 7:30 A.M. they already gave you the full rundown of everything you possibly could need. And then, your message pops in. It's like, "Hey, just wondering if you had an update on project X." And then like, "Dude, do you not read first?" So yeah, putting it in italics is a good, I like that custom. Michael: Yeah. I do a Friday message to the team and I schedule it for 1:00 my time, and 12:55, somebody had an urgent message that they posted to the team and they said, "In the spirit of the Friday message," and I was like, oh, my Friday message is going to appear in five minutes from now and it's totally going to look like Mike forgot to send it. Mike Rose: Can't win them all. Can't win them all. Michael: Well, I'm sure Slack is something we'll talk about, but I mean, we have a lot to talk about because there's Agentforce stuff now, you have people that report to you. You've always had people that report to you, but you're demoing to different customers. Where would you like to dive in first? Because otherwise, we'll just go off the rails and end up talking about something in New York or soup, I don't know. Mike Rose: Soup would be good. Well, I could just start with on the perhaps bold assumption that previous listeners who might vaguely remember me having been here before, might think what did he used to do and what is he doing now? Michael: I'm sure people track that. Mike Rose: I actually have seen some of the Always Sunny in Philadelphia murder boards for this show, for the Admins Podcast. And they're elaborate. There's a lot of community investment in understanding the connection. So no, I've been at Salesforce 12 years, celebrated my 12th anniversary a couple months ago. Very exciting. Michael: Wow, congrats. Mike Rose: Thank you. I also am delighted to report that my brother is also now back at Salesforce. He is boomeranged, so he was part of our solution engineering world for several years. Left to go take a role at OwnData or OwnBackup. Michael: And then we acquired them. Mike Rose: And then we acquired them. So now, he is back. And so, now we have sibling force back in effect, which I'm delighted by. And so, last time I was on the program, I was managing a team of technical architects. So our pre-sales TAs are the successors of our platform solution engineering team. So these are folks who are working with customers, mostly working with the technology decision makers and technology leaders, IT leaders at customers to work on questions around security and data strategy and AI and app dev and customization and getting into the cracks or the weeds in the customer 360. A lot of conversations around integration and really with all the integration products and capabilities that we currently have and will safe harbor have in the future, the TA team has spent a lot of time working on Data Cloud and Agentforce as well. And that was what I've been doing for several years, eight years actually, I think. And then, an opportunity came along last year and I have now taken over a larger team of solution engineers, not technical architects, but core solution engineers, account solution engineers working in a part of our SMB business. So this is a team of about 50 and with several different teams, geographies and verticals within it. But basically working with customers between about 50 and 250 employees in a subset of our industry's framework to help them understand what we can offer, do discovery, do demos, talk about AI, which it seems is what we're doing a lot of the time nowadays. And it's been a great transition for me. It's been really educational and informative to get closer to the customer again with some of the opportunities and some of the challenges that are out there nowadays. Michael: And the reason, well, first of all, I love talking to you because you're incredibly smart human being. Mike Rose: Thank you. Michael: But the second is your job is so closely aligned to everything admins do. It's like an aspect of their job. You just get paid to do essentially a sales role of admin stuff. But that's essentially what a Salesforce admin does in their organization is walk around and talk with the executives and oh, well, let's see how we can use Salesforce in your area and everything you described. Mike Rose: Yeah, I mean, I think that there is a partnership between the admins and the solution engineers that's really important and that I think you highlighted very effectively, which is it's a shared responsibility of evangelism, sort of evangelism from the outside, evangelism from the inside. And the admins are those folks who are doing discovery, internal discovery, process assessment, understanding where is their pain, where is their organizational inefficiency. And I think for our small business admins, a lot of them are accidental admins. A lot of them are people who came into the Salesforce ecosystem through the back door, not really with the awareness or intention of taking on that responsibility. And so, they've had to learn very tactically. They've had to learn based on what was the problem in front of them at that moment. And when we arrive at those customers or come into those conversations, often the question is, well, not so much what should you be doing or what should you be doing better, but what are the things that haven't even been examined yet? And often, it is around something like integration. I joke with customers that we see a lot of, particularly in our healthcare customers, we see a lot of PIOM data integration models, and I'll bring that up in the course of our conversation and just let it simmer there for a minute. And sometimes someone will ask, sometimes they won't put us like, oh, I should probably explain my acronyms. PIOM stands for Post-it on monitor. And literally, the way data gets into Salesforce is someone from the sales team goes over to the lead management person, Joanne, and leaves a Post-it on Joanne's monitor saying, please update this record. That's integration. Michael: Or update this spreadsheet so that I can insert it. Mike Rose: Yes. Yeah, exactly. And so, that is an integration driving the motion of data or added value on top of data through human intervention, through re-keying, through copy and paste, through let me look over your shoulder and key this in for me. That's all integration. It is taking data that exists usually in email or Excel or in somebody's brain or on a piece of paper and putting it someplace where it can be more valuable, where it can create a multiplier effect of visibility and actionability and observability and impacting the situational awareness for business leaders and for people on the front lines. All of that is value added for that data. But when we see those points of pinch points and points of friction, usually it's because there wasn't enough perceived value to change it. It's working the way it is, why should we change it? And usually the answer is, it is working the way it is, but you don't understand or don't fully account for the opportunity cost of not having that happening automatically every time like the errors and the lag, the latency of that data and all those other things. So that's just one tiny corner of it, but it really is common, especially with smaller customers, to just see largely a great Salesforce implementation and everything working really efficiently. And then you're like, what's under this rock? Michael: Oh no, here be dragons. Mike Rose: Here be dragons. So yeah, so it's a lot of fun. Michael: Well, I think having gone through, I feel like I've kind of run somewhat of the gamut. When I started out as an admin, we had 10 licenses because that's what you got with the foundation. Mike Rose: Power of us, yeah. Michael: And then, we grew all the way up to like 1,500. So I've run, and we didn't go right away. It was steps. And so, I've been in that 50 to 250-seat area. One thing that I think we probably do, and you work at Salesforce too, we often assume that when we talk to a Salesforce admin or developer architect and they're in the smaller business, 50 to 250-seat, that that's all they do. Every day, they wake up and they pine what field can I release? What training thing can I do? But I'm going to go out on a limb and say, because you said most of them come in accidentally or through the back door. What are some of the other jobs that you find that they're also responsible for in addition to sitting in these Salesforce meetings with you? Mike Rose: Oh, gosh, that's a great question. I mean, I will say for our customers, because they're just a little bit on the larger side of the larger half of our SMB space, that by and large, by the time we get to them, they have transitioned into full-time admins. However, they're coming from sales ops or they're coming from being- Michael: They always come from sales ops. Mike Rose: They do. Michael: The sales guys are the ones that care about the CRM. That's why. Mike Rose: It's funny how that works. Sometimes it's actually an AE or someone who was on the sales team. Sometimes it's a business analyst or someone who is coming in from the marketing side or from lead gen. A substantial number of folks who end up as Salesforce admins are coming from office management, receptionist, executive assistant, presumptively, non-technical roles. But because of their proximity to the leadership and because their work tends to be a little more bursty and they have fallow time or downtime along with the time that they're extremely busy and they can do stuff asynchronously, there's a lot of folks who are coming from that front office and front of house role into a Salesforce admin role, which is great because I can't think of another enterprise software environment where it's as easy and as welcoming to get started and get skilled up than us, than Salesforce. So we do have those opportunities for people to change their careers and step in a different direction. I can think of a lot of people who were either not in IT or were in IT, peripheral IT and peripheral technology roles and Salesforce was their angle and ended up being the transformative thing that brought them into a technology career. So you'd love to see it. Michael: I mean, mine was the same way. I was in charge of inside sales and Salesforce because sales. Mike Rose: Yeah, because those are it. And honestly, if you can be effective as an admin in a part-time way, that's great because it helps you stay closer to the business and helps you stay connected to what's driving value and where the pain points are, where things need work. The thing that I think is interesting for our smaller customers is we don't have, to my mind, enough customers taking advantage of premier support, the delegated admin features and the ability to get Salesforce to do stuff for you, take stuff off your plate. I know we're adding a lot of admin AI capabilities as well to speed up the work and makes things easier for admins, but honestly, if you're going to get value out of something that Salesforce can give you, I think that's a good thing to do because what it gives you back is time. It gives you back time to again, spend more time understanding what the business needs. Michael: And there's a cost. I mean, I finally sold one of my employers on it, but the ability to, I think at the time it was log a ticket and get a dashboard made, I mean, that was an afternoon back for me. It was huge. So let's talk, I mean, we also, it's the age of AI. Everybody's got AI. We've got Agentforce. You see the headlines of big companies building their own AI. I promise you, the NAPA Auto parts in Farmington, Minnesota that uses Salesforce, I don't know if that's true or not, I'm just making it up. Mike Rose: Well, it's true now. Michael: Probably isn't building- Mike Rose: Now it's canonical since you said it on the podcast, it's true now. Michael: But I mean, probably isn't sitting down building their own AI model. What do you find are the questions or the gaps that maybe they don't know that they should look for or is there a perceived we're just not big enough so we're not going to use it? Mike Rose: It's a really interesting question. I mean, I think in general, the thing that we are telling customers or the thing that customers are coming to understand is that creating a bespoke AI solution for a particular business, for a particular sector, for a particular whatever is an enormous lift. It's an enormous lift. And I mean, again, that's true today. It may not always be true. It may not be true indefinitely into the future, probably won't be. But if you are the NAPA Auto Parts franchise in Farmington, Massachusetts, and you're saying to yourself, "What we really need is a custom NAPA Auto Parts AI," the answer is not to build it from an LLM vendor up from that layer, and certainly not to train one, again today, but you can get, it always comes down to time to value. You can get 98% of the value of a custom AI solution for your business with Agentforce today, and you get the one year, two years, three years, however long of advantage of having access to that capability, having access to the tool prior to whatever you build being ready and pressure tested and secure and highly available and supported and having someone you can call or email or text or chat for help when you need it. It's everything about developing bespoke on-premise solutions for your business...
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Summer ’25 Brings Game-Changing Tools for Salesforce Admins
06/12/2025
Summer ’25 Brings Game-Changing Tools for Salesforce Admins
Today on the Salesforce Admins Podcast, we talk to Jennifer Lee, Lead Admin Evangelist at Salesforce. Join us as we chat about what’s coming in the Summer ‘25 release and the features that will make your life easier as an admin. You should for the full episode, but here are a few takeaways from our conversation with Jennifer Lee. The Summer ‘25 release is coming soon It’s that time of year again. The time for popsicles, backyard barbecues, and the Summer ‘25 Release. So I’ve brought none other than Jennifer Lee on the pod to tell us what’s coming for admins. As always, Jen has a great blog post covering all of the changes with animated gifs that show how they work. I’d highly recommend scrolling through it as a visual companion to this episode, but the big takeaway here is that admins’ lives are about to get a whole lot easier. Jen’s highlights from the Summer ‘25 release At a high level, Summer ‘25 means fewer clicks and more control for admins. Jen highlights some key changes: The Close Case button: No need for custom buttons—you can add a Close Case button to the Case Details page and save your reps the extra clicks. Better custom object deletion: When you delete a custom object, you’ll see a detailed page listing any relationships it has to other objects. The new Permission Set Summary page: You can now update user, object, field, and custom permissions directly from a permission set’s Summary page, without navigating to multiple pages. Expanded Salesforce Go: Your guided tour for how to enable/configure features in your Salesforce edition, with resources to help you get started. As always with releases, the little things add up. And these changes help you effortlessly manage your org like never before. Powerful new features in Flow Of course, no episode with Jen would be complete without diving into the changes coming for Flow. She draws our attention to a few key enhancements for Flow: Get related records (beta): Instead of dealing with multiple Get Records and Update Records elements, you can now get entire hierarchies of related records, such as an Account and all of its Contacts and Opportunities, in a single Get Records element. Expanded resources search in Flow Builder (beta): When you enable this feature in Setup, you’ll be able to quickly find resources like fields from records and outputs from actions. New Time data type: You can now reference the new Time data type for things like scheduling reminders, routing records based on specific times of day, and triggering time-sensitive actions with pinpoint accuracy. Debug enhancements: Debugging your flows has never been easier, with element-level summaries, and search capabilities within the debug to help get your flow flowing. Approval Wizard: It’s complicated to build an approval process, so we’ve made it easier to get started with up to three approval levels, final actions, and even a recall path. There are a lot more great insights from Jen about screen flow enhancements and other changes coming in Summer ‘25, so be sure to listen to the full episode. And don’t forget to subscribe to the Salesforce Admins Podcast to catch us every Thursday. Podcast swag Learn more Salesforce Admins Blog: Admin Trailblazers Group r Full show transcript Mike: Welcome to the Salesforce Admins Podcast. This week, Jennifer Lee returns to the pod to break down what's new in the summer '25 release. And trust me, it's more than sunshine and good vibes if you read her blog post that she put out earlier in May. From long-awaited case close buttons to a major user management upgrade, I promise you Jennifer is going to walk us through some features that make your admin life easier. Plus we dig into flow enhancements, better debugging and why thoughtful resource naming still matters. I mean, we can't not talk flow with Jennifer Lee, that's just how it works. If you've ever been wondering what to focus on with your attention to this release cycle, this is your episode. Super fun to go through. Now, if you enjoy this episode, be sure to hit that follow or subscribe button on whatever podcast platform you're listening to. So with that, let's get Jennifer back on the podcast. So Jen, welcome back to the podcast. Jennifer Lee: Always love being here. Mike: I mean, it's summer already. It feels like it was just spring. We were just talking about spring and now it's summer. Isn't this how it always works? Jennifer Lee: Well, now I'm actually feeling summer for real in Boston. It's hot out, I'm wearing shorts. Mike: Yeah, I mean, every time I've been to Boston it's either snow, really hot or snow. Jennifer Lee: And it was cold probably a few days ago too, so I'll take it. Mike: Right. Yep, that's okay. But with summer comes summer release, and we're a little behind. We're not terribly far behind. But you did put out a blog post back in May about summer '25 features for admin. So I figured we could talk through those because sometimes there's stuff that you learn after you write about it that you wanted to bring up that maybe you didn't get a chance to bring up. So that's where we're going to start. But before we do that, what other things are you working on? Anything fun you want to share? Jennifer Lee: Yeah, I'm always learning more... Like with our admins, learning more about Agentforce. So currently working on a video, should be out shortly, so we'll say that. And again, working on a new series, we should have that out not too long from now. So a lot of things in the works. Mike: Cool. I know there's always fun stuff, always fun stuff, but well, let's talk release stuff. So what were some of your top features this summer? Jennifer Lee: Okay, so for those who have case management, you always had to create your own custom close button. And it's the little things, it's the little things in these releases that make it, right. So now there's a standard close button. You don't need to go and make your own. You can just bring in the standard close button to your record page layout and boom, on your page layout, you can just say close case and it works. Again, the little tiny things. Mike: But you know what, I mean sometimes release stuff doesn't have to be like, "Look at this giant 60,000 foot tower I built." It can be, "Look at this little stool that you can now close your cases with." Jennifer Lee: Yeah, and another thing I like, so bringing me back to my admin days, is when you go and you tried to delete an object. And it just goes, [inaudible 00:03:50]- Mike: [inaudible 00:03:51]. Jennifer Lee: You got other stuff going on there, you have dependencies, you can't delete it, and then you had to go and find all the places. Mike: Yeah. Jennifer Lee: That was not fun. Mike: No. Jennifer Lee: Not fun at all. But with this release now when you try to delete an object, it'll say you can't delete it, but it'll show you all the dependencies. So all the object in the fields, and then it gives you a hyperlink so that you can go and click on that and easily find the thing that you have to delete before you can actually go ahead and delete the object. So again, it's the little tiny things like that. And Cheryl Feldman's team continues to deliver and make enhancements to user management because we all know user management can be a mess. But she's delivering stuff to make lives easier for admin so that we can focus on the cooler things that we can build out. But here are some of the highlights on the things that her team is delivering in this release. So when you're in object manager on an object, you can now go to the access page, and from there you can review and add and remove permissions from custom profiles and permission sets, and not have to navigate away. So your object access is right there, your field level access is right there. Mike: Wow. Jennifer Lee: Yeah, these are huge. Mike: Yeah, I'm looking at the GIFs that you have in that blog post. Jennifer Lee: I love making GIFs. Mike: I know it's kind of- Jennifer Lee: It really brings a feature to life. Mike: Here's a pro-tip. As you listen to this podcast, look at the blog post and it's like surround sound. Sorry, I interrupted you. Go on. Jennifer Lee: Oh, no worries. Another thing is on the permission set summary page, again, it's not having to click all these places to do the thing, but on the permission set summary, you can now update user object, field and custom permissions right there. Again, you don't need to navigate away to those places to do it. Same thing with permission set groups, on that summary page, you can add and remove permissions within your permission set group. So that's great. And then additionally on the user summary page, so on the user record, you click that summary button. From there you can edit tab access directly, and then you can add and remove assignments for the user to perm sets, groups and queues. Mike: I think that tab thing's probably the coolest thing that if you've ever had to go through and figure out- Jennifer Lee: Where it is. Mike: I mean just like, "Oh, where did I stick that tab on these 10 applications?" Or, "Who can see this?" Or why. There was always one user that just randomly had a tab show up. "Sorry, let me go fix that." Jennifer Lee: And as it relates to user management, if you haven't tried out Salesforce Go, I recommend you go and do that. That really simplifies when you're setting up your features. And it also provides access to videos and you can do tours, or it points you to some Trailhead modules and guides you through how to enable features based on your addition that you have in your org, and also whatever clouds you have. So if you have Sales Cloud, there's a Sales Cloud section, Service Cloud, Service Cloud section. So it really makes enabling features in your org much easier. Mike: So Salesforce Go, you should go check it out. Jennifer Lee: Like that. Mike: Go. Go. Jennifer Lee: All right. And no release would be complete without me talking about flow. Mike: I mean, I feel like at this point it's the sound of clouds separating, "Flow!" And angels singing. Jennifer Lee: Yeah. Mike: You're like, "Yeah, okay, let's talk about flow." Jennifer Lee: I can talk about flow all day long as you know [inaudible 00:08:10]- Mike: I know, I know. Jennifer Lee: So in the Get Records element, when you're doing Get Records for whatever object it is, you can now have the ability to get the related records as well. Right before, you would have your one Get Records for the object, and then you would do another Get Records for the related objects. Now you could do it all in one, and then when you click and you say, "Oh, I want related records," then from there there's an interface that allows you to select the fields for that record and you still train and all that. Mike: Does that apply to... Obviously it's master detail, but what about lookup relationship? Jennifer Lee: I believe it's right now- Mike: Master detail. Jennifer Lee: [inaudible 00:08:57] detail. Mike: Okay, that's what I figured, but still... Jennifer Lee: Yeah, it's still big. Mike: Get Records account. Hello. Jennifer Lee: Yep. So when you are finding your resources, let's say in your flow you have a lot of things you want to look up or related and all that. You now can use the expanded resources search, which you have to enable and set up, and then it'll be available in your flow to quickly find resources. So one thing to note was we did push this out, so something similar to this in winter and we took it back, and then based on customer feedback, we brought it back and improved it. Mike: Do you have... While we're talking resources, do you have... Because I was looking at your GIF, and I would imagine you have a methodology for how you name your resources. How would you advise admins name their resources? Because obviously this is super powerful. Jennifer Lee: Yeah, so when I create my own custom resources, I do have a certain name in convention, so if I have variables, I'll do a VAR in the front of it, if I can easily find those. Or if I have a record collection, I'll always have the word collection in there, so I can easily find it. Or if you're using a text template, the word text template or a formula. So I'll just put those little keywords so that when you're doing the search and you know it's the thing that you're looking for, you can easily type that in and then they'll show up in the search. Mike: Yeah, no, it's smart. I like that. Thank you. Jennifer Lee: And then for people who have flows that deal with time, we now have the time data type that you can use, and you can also reference time formulas as well in your flows. So that's huge for people who have those time dependent flows. Mike: Wow. Jennifer Lee: Yeah. Mike: Oh, that gives me a little bit of anxiety. I see minute is an option. And second, holy cow, second. Bless you people that have time dependent flows. Jennifer Lee: Yeah, I had a few of those as a customer. Mike: Okay. What would be an example of that? Like was it on cases mostly? Jennifer Lee: Yeah. Mike: Because you need to follow up or it needs to do something like hippity hop right now. Jennifer Lee: Yeah, we were a big Service Cloud customer, so yeah. Mike: So based on how old that case is or how long that's been, yeah, I could see that. Boy! Testing. Jennifer Lee: So the flow team has also made enhancements to debug. So now it has slightly different UI, but it's so much easier to debug your flows. They now have element level summaries, and you also have search capabilities within the debug. So let's say you're working through and you have a variable that you're just checking to see if the data flows through and the various elements. You can do a search on that variable name and it'll pop up and kind of highlight where it is in the debug elements so that you can go through. You can also show API names and things like that, so it's really more interactive than it was previously. Mike: Yeah, that makes sense. Boy, that's got to be helpful. Jennifer Lee: And for admins who have approvals as part of your process, there's now a new wizard, will help you build your flow approvals. I never really use approvals, like I never really had a need to use approvals in my business, but the process of going through the approval process seemed really clunky. Mike: I built approvals a few times, and the problem I always had is the company kept changing the approval process and not telling me. So that, or making the approval process something wonky, that was super hard to build. Jennifer Lee: Yeah, I would believe that. Mike: You're like, "Yep, been there." "Did you even consult me?" "No, we just changed this." And so now... And then you always had users that were like, "Well, but that doesn't go to the right person." I know, they changed that without telling me. Jennifer Lee: And I was supposed to know. Mike: My time machine... What was that? What's that... I was thinking of that. Cerebro from X-Men. "My Cerebro is in the shop." Jennifer Lee: All right, so a couple of screen flow enhancements. So you now have the ability to trigger a screen action without needing a button. So previously we had a button that was in beta, so now that's generally available. So go ahead and use it on all the places everyone. There's also now a new feature called File Upload Enhanced (Beta) component. It's in beta. You can bring in the component and with File Upload, you can now set it to require files to be uploaded. So if you have cases and you have a screen flow, you want people to upload files, previously they could forget about it. And then you're like, "Oh, well I wanted you to give me supporting documentation," but there's no way to require that, and now you can. So note that you do need to enable that feature in Salesforce Files and set up, and then it'll show up in your screen flows. Mike: So then that puts the file on the record? Jennifer Lee: Yes. Mike: Oh, man. These are all things I needed 20 years- Jennifer Lee: Back then, right? Back then when we were admins. Mike: Oh, I so... Oh, just the number of times I would have... Well first of all, we did have screen flow. I envisioned what a screen flow would look like, and then they'd be like... Then at this point, it should be like a website and you upload a thing that maps out all the sites. And I'd be like, "That sounds really cool, I wish I could build that." Now it's 2025, now I could build that. Jennifer Lee: Yes, without a developer. Mike: And the file just goes to the record and away we go. Jennifer Lee: Yep, yep. And then lastly, on screen flows, you could... Like imagine your screen flows, you have multiple columns and fields. Let's say you're collecting an address, the street, zip code, state, those are different sizes. You typically don't have a long field for a two-state drop down [inaudible 00:16:20]. So now you have the ability to adjust the components and the fields on your screen flows to say, "Here's the width I want to use," and then do the vertical alignment too. So it really makes your screen flows look so much prettier- Mike: Oh my god. Jennifer Lee: ... than before. Mike: And just useful. I'm watching your GIF, and the number of street, city, state zip fields that I've had in orgs that are all the same size. And everybody's always like, "Well, how come you can't make it look like an address field?" Well, you see there are reasons, but not anymore. Jennifer Lee: Yeah, that's my wrap up. Mike: Those are cool. Jennifer Lee: But there's more in the blog. Mike: I mean there is, you scrolled through a lot. There's always a ton, and it's a ton... And it's always based on like, I think it's fun when you go through the stuff, the release notes every year and you kind of look at it. Because the stuff you always get the most excited about are the things that frustrated you that you kind of knew weren't hard to fix. It was just like at some point you know it's going to bubble up on the calendar and somebody's going to knock it out. I think that styling for flows is huge. I mean flows for the... Screen flows for me are the easiest way I can get into flow and kind of understand it because you can visually see what you're putting in, but the ability to edit the way that looks has always been not the most easy. But this now... I like your example, you're like, this is a really long label for a long text area. Yeah, I mean, it spells it out, but it's really helpful to understand because the end user's the one that's going to stare at it all day. You're going to look at it a few times in testing, and you also talk about, "Oh, icons. Oh, these are cool too." Jennifer Lee: Oh, those icons that you can use... So if you have a pick list in your screen flow, you can add little icons to make it easier as well. Mike: It's funny, I was on a related unrelated topic. I was at a car show a couple weekends ago, and I ran into somebody and we were talking. He said, "Oh, well, I code for the university because I live in Iowa City." And I said, "Oh, cool." He asked me, "Where do you work?" I said I work at Salesforce. And so immediately he thinks I understand code. I wasn't going to say otherwise. But the next words out of his mouth really caught me off guard. He said, "You know, your lightning design system is probably one of the most well-thought-out documented systems I have ever had to work with." And I bring that up because the images of those like, excellent, good, like the way that our iconography kind of looks within the system, I think is really cool. So is a long walk for a short drink of water, but... And it would carry over. Plus anytime that you can mix things up and use images... I mean images, do you remember back in the day, you used to set up a resource library and import all these images, like four star images and five star images and stuff, and then you would show that on the...
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Use Metadata to Empower Salesforce Agents
06/05/2025
Use Metadata to Empower Salesforce Agents
Today on the Salesforce Admins Podcast, we talk to Joshua Birk, Admin Evangelist at Salesforce. Join us as we chat about why your metadata is crucial for building effective AI agents. You should for the full episode, but here are a few takeaways from our conversation with Joshua Birk. Why multi-tenancy still matters for Agentforce As the Admin Evangelist team has been helping people get started with Agentforce, we’ve noticed that the key to unlocking this new technology is to revisit some of the oldest concepts about the Salesforce platform. That’s why I brought Josh Birk on the pod to talk about metadata and multi-tenant architecture. If you need a refresher, that’s the idea that Salesforce is like an apartment building where each org is an apartment. Your stuff is in your individual unit, but the entire building shares resources like water and electricity. So what’s the difference from 2010? As Josh explains, it’s that every apartment comes standard with an Agentforce-powered robot butler. Quality data leads to better automation Imagine you’re sitting down for dinner, and you want your robot butler to set the table—how does it know where the forks are? And what happens if they’re buried in your junk drawer? Clearly, a robot butler will be more helpful if you keep your apartment organized. And, as Josh points out, the same is true for your Salesforce org. AI agents rely on your metadata, like description fields and field types, to help them respond correctly and find what your users are looking for. With longstanding orgs, there can be an “if it ain’t broke, don’t fix it” mindset, but that’s the equivalent of throwing everything in the junk drawer. Doing a little spring cleaning and organizing your metadata helps Agentforce help you. Why you’re already an AI builder The key thing Josh wants you to realize is that you’re already an AI builder. An agent is just another user in your org, and so the work you do to make your data easy to use is also what powers the solutions you build in Agentforce. That’s why it’s so important to fall back on Salesforce fundamentals. Building an agent is the easy part. The hard part is making sure your metadata is in a good place to support your AI solutions, but that’s the work that admins do every day. There’s so much more great stuff from Josh in this episode, so be sure to take a listen. And don’t forget to subscribe to the Salesforce Admins Podcast to catch us every Thursday. Podcast swag Learn more Admin Trailblazers Group Social Full Transcript Mike: Hey, Salesforce admins. Ever wonder what multi-tenancy AI and your junk drawer have in common? Luckily, Josh Birk is back to explain it all, from forks, to metadata. Yeah, we even throw in some robot butlers. This episode's a ride through the architecture that makes Salesforce magic happen with, I promise you, enough analogies to stock your kitchen. So, if you've ever said, "Wait, where are the forks?" This one's for you. And when you listen to it, that sentence will make sense. So give it a listen, send it to your friends. Be sure to hit that follow subscribe button to get brand new episodes downloaded on your mobile device. And without waiting any longer, let's get Josh Birk back on the podcast. So Josh, welcome back to the podcast. Josh Birk: Thanks, Mike. Glad you're back. Mike: It's been a while, but you've been working on stuff. Josh Birk: I have been working on stuff. It's been a busy little quarter. This thing called AI never really stops sleeping. I guess it's one of its benefits. But yeah, trying to catch up with all things AI, and data cloud, and especially trying where there's a wealth of stuff happening before Dreamforce, and we really would like to get our admins community armed with that information. Mike: You mentioned Dreamforce. Dreamforce start till October. Josh Birk: Well, I know, but I thought July was a really far away away, and I realized I have a trip to Montreal next week because it's June, and it's like, "Okay, right." The months, they're collapsing away. Mike: It literally, it's like one minute you're like, "Yay, it's February," and the next thing you know it's like 4th July. Josh Birk: Right. Yeah. And you have a TDX going over. Mike: All the hangovers. The first thing that I think we want to talk about, so what's crazy is we brought this stuff up, what are we going to talk about, and you're like, "Let's talk about the multi-tenant analogy." And I was thinking back to, whoa, that was like 2010 when I first learned about multi-tenant, and hearing the Salesforce apartment analogy. Josh Birk: Yeah. Yeah. It's interesting. It's actually, I think, a testament to the platform, that you can use it for years and not really understand. And I used to understand not having to comprehend exactly what's going on, because one of the, it's not really a catch 22, it's this nice cycle because it's part of the wonder of the multi-tenant structure is that you don't have to worry about it, because you log in and you're in, basically, your own space. First of all, I think it's one of those things that does get bandied about, but sometimes it doesn't stick in people's heads. For instance, I was talking to somebody about Trailhead, and they were like, "Well, is that why we have multi-tenancy?" And I'm like, "No, no, no, no, no. Multi-tenancy was the thing, that was day one. That was the magic fuel that was moving our product before anything else was getting built on top of it." And I think it's important to kind of have a basic understanding, because every now and then, as a developer, one of the things that people, if you come from Java, or you come from C++, and one of the things you're used to doing is whatever you want, if you want to spin up a crazy thread in an application and have it run for three days straight, the only person stopping you from doing that is you. And so then people come into Salesforce platform and they're like, "Well, Apex has these limits to it. You can't spin up too many CPU cycles, you can't do too many searches." You can't do these things. And some developers are like, "Why are you tying my hands back behind my back?" And it's like, because part of the multi-tenant architecture makes sure that Mike's org might be sitting next to my org in terms of hardware. So we're sharing a CPU. And if Mike misbehaves too much, you might steal CPU cycles from me, and vice versa. You might slow down my application by no intent of yours. You don't even know I'm on the other side of the wall, but you're using up all of my power. And our multi-tenant architecture basically makes sure that doesn't happen. And it makes sure that you can go in and do all the things that we give you the rules to, and I can go and do all the things we get the rules to, and we're always going to be play safe with each other. Mike: And I remember, it's so fascinating here you describe multi-tenant that way, because I remember having to describe it as, "No, no, no, no, all of the data that we put in is in our own apartment. And all of the data that somebody other company puts in is their own apartment. And it doesn't matter what pictures we hang on our walls, they can't see our pictures and we can't see theirs." Josh Birk: Exactly. Mike: As opposed to the amount of boiling water that we have left, because we're all sharing a water boiler. Josh Birk: Right. Because it's summer in Chicago, and you take three showers a day sometimes. Yeah. Mike: Right. Josh Birk: Yeah, exactly. Mike: But I mean, perspective wise, I'm thinking through all this, and multi-tenancy, if you're going through even Salesforce admin one-on-one stuff, like this is the first day, everybody's thinking AI and agentic, and what can AI do for me. What are you doing talking multi-tenancy when we have this really cool agentic stuff that we should be talking about? Josh Birk: Yeah. And it's a great question, and there's a couple of answers. And the first one is to kind of go back to the analogy of an apartment complex. So that experience starts at the front door. You can't get in through the front door unless you are a tenant in the apartment building. And then the next thing you're going to do is you're going to go to your apartment, and you can't get into your apartment unless you're a tenant of that apartment. And then start breaking all it down to the stuff that you were just saying. Your pictures are your own, the boxes you have in the attic, they're all your own. All of that is, so this is why trust is our number one value. You trust us to hold your apartment near and dear to you, and you trust us to keep that security layer, you trust us to keep the powers on. All of that is the same stuff that the agents are building on top of. That is why they're a very easy to use enterprise solution for AI, because they're like the robot butler who lives in your apartment. And all of that other stuff, the security, the power, the storage, all of that stuff, it just comes with the apartment. And your agent is able to understand where all your pictures are, and where all your boxes are, and how those boxes are structured. And one analogy I like to give is like, well, if you're going to ask your robot butler, aka agent force, for a fork, if I'm a guest in your house, like, "Hey, Mike, can I get a fork?" You would know which drawer to tell me. You would be like, "Go to the second drawer next to the stove. That's where the forks are." How does the agent know that? And the agent knows that because of metadata. And metadata is the second tier of what makes multi-tenancy work. One of the things back in my workshop days, a question got a lot, especially because I'm talking to old school Oracle developers and Java developers, and they're like, "Well, what's your web stack?" What they're asking is, are you running Java? Are you running Oracle? And stuff like that. I'm like, "I could answer this for you, but it's not going to be the answer you think it is, because our data structure doesn't start like a normal database does. Our database structure starts with multi-tenancy with a metadata tier on top of it." And what that metadata allows you to do is you can put your forks in a drawer, I can put my forks in a different drawer, and metadata can tell the agent, "This is where those forks are held." And let's say you ripped your kitchen apart. Now, if you're going to rip your kitchen apart and put your kitchen back together again, you're going to get a contractor. You're not just going to go pay a couple of teenagers with some sledgehammers and just knock everything down. I mean, it might start that way, it could be entertaining. Mike: I mean, if you watch HGTV, that's how it's supposed to go. Josh Birk: It does kind of start that way, right. But at some point, you're going to want to have a plan for how tall the counters are, where the counters are going to stop, all of this kind of stuff. You're going to have a blueprint. And a blueprint is going to instruct everything down to where your drawers are. And that blueprint is crafted for you in metadata whenever you're doing things like creating custom objects, and you're creating custom fields. And everything on the platform basically has this blueprint to it. Now, the great thing about that blueprint is if you invite me over to your apartment and I'm like, "Dude, this is a killer kitchen. I would love to have this kitchen in my apartment," you're like, "Dude, I'll just get you the blueprint." And then we just package up that blueprint, I take it over my apartment, and then I can just build out the kitchen exactly to your scale. Mike: So, I'm thinking through all of the times that I've built and remodeled my kitchen, as admins do, continuing the metaphor, and failed to write blueprints. So now I'm building an agent and I'm telling it forks are in the second drawer from the left of the stove. And that's the instruction I give it, but it has to go learn what the second drawer is because it doesn't have a blueprint to look at. Josh Birk: Yeah. So this is a very strange little section of metadata and AI. It was one of the first things that I heard during a workshop, and it's always stuck with me. So you've got your blueprint. Your blueprint knows the size and scale of your kitchen, it knows how many drawers you are, and it knows where the drawers are. Now, let's say you want to identify which drawer is going to be the silverware drawer. When you're building out the custom object and you're building out the custom fields, we know that it's good to have a description fields. So if there's any ambiguity, because sometimes you might have a similarly named field, you might have a similarly named object, something like that, and you want to make sure people are guided to the right drawer, so find that fork, well, if it's a good idea for a human, it's a great idea for an agent, because when you say, "Get me the largest fork in the drawer," it's going to go through what it knows about the data model. And if it sees the word fork in a description, it knows it's going in the right direction. You're giving it that breadcrumbs. And this is why it's like, "Which descriptions fields do you mean, Josh?" And it's all of them. It's the ones in the custom actions, and we won't even get into instructions yet. It's all the ones in your custom fields, it's all the ones in your custom objects, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. You want to leave that little breadcrumb trail so that when agent force is doing its little agentic reasoning, and it's like, "Which custom action should I use? Which standard action should I use?" You're going to end up with a much higher rate of success. Mike: So what I'm hearing is the importance of metadata in terms of describing things, in any possible term that a user could use to give that to an agent, so that an agent doesn't have to reason, "Oh, date on opportunity means contract date, as opposed to close date, because you have six date fields and you title them date one, date two, date three." Josh Birk: Exactly. Mike: And the user, because it's nomenclature within the organization, oh, well, the second date is the date it leaves the warehouse, and the third date is the date it's expected to be delivered. But if you ask an agent that it's not going to know that until you tell it through metadata. Josh Birk: Until you tell it through metadata. At best, if it doesn't know, it will guess, which is problematic for two reasons. One, obviously it might be wrong, but it also might be right two times out of three, but then you don't know that third time. It makes your testing even harder anytime that the agent has to guess for it. Now, people might be listening to this like, "Well, okay, I understand that, but how powerful can a description field be?" And it's true. It's only so powerful, but the great thing is, this is why, and it's one of the things I think people, I really like talking about this, because one of the things is I think it demystifies agents a certain extent. We treat agents almost like, I just referred to it as a robot butler. So we're already into a sci-fi. We've gone from an apartment complex to Star Wars, right? Mike: I'm thinking Rosey from the Jetsons. Josh Birk: Yes, yes. I love it. I love it. But there's so much human in the loop that's involved. And we have to remember when we talk about guardrails, all agents have guardrails. It's the thing that keeps them from saying horrible things and doing horrible things. And there's so much we can control over an agent just by text, just by writing to it. And so we've been playing with agent force internally. And one of the first things I had to do, because I was trying to make sure that our users could talk to it like they would want to talk to it, right? So when you say my blog post, you mean a blog post that our wonderful Eliza Riley created an object record for, and then added you as an author, and then added Kate as a reviewer. So we're really talking about contributors. But if you say the word my without giving any context to the agent, it's going to think you mean the current owner. But instructions, you can say, "Hey, in this topic, when I say my, when I say blog, I mean these different things." And so that's the first place that the breadcrumb trail is going to start going, and it can be one of the little behavioral issues. It's not responding in the right way, or it's not using the right style and things like that. The prompt builder instructions can solve so much just by writing a few sentences. Mike: So, I'm thinking through the apartment analogy. And I've used Rosey before, because I do think eventually at some point we'll have, I would like to have a robot in my house. Amazon had that little puppy dog thing. Josh Birk: Yeah. Mike: I should have signed up for that. But in hindsight, I don't think AI was really where it should be. Josh Birk: It was basically an Alexa on wheels, I think. Mike: I know. I was afraid it was going to go downstairs and there goes $2,000. What was that, literally here's the sound, it was like, "Zoop, zoop, pom, pom, pom, pom, pom, pom."And then mom would be like, "What was that?" And I'd be like, "That's the sound of $2,000 falling downstairs." Josh Birk: Not being able to use stairs. Mike: You can't use stairs. But I would like to have that. So, I'm thinking through the apartment analogy. And basically what you're saying is, so Salesforce can roll out the ability to find forks, to all of its agents. And so everybody in the apartment complex benefits, but what's key is your blueprint, because where you keep your forks is different than where your neighbor in 5B keeps their forks. And so if you are filling in your metadata and Salesforce ups the ability for agents to do things like find forks, like, "Oh, now they have the ability to find spoons," everybody can benefit all from one action. But just because of that action doesn't mean that your agent is up and running because it needs the metadata to really target in on what does this action actually mean for me and the customization I've done. Josh Birk: Right. Mike: Is that fair? Josh Birk: That's fair. And remember, your Rosey and my Rosey, they're the same model. And if there's upgrades, you're going to get your Rosey upgraded, I'm going to get my Rosey upgraded. Mike: Kind of like our phones. Josh Birk: Like our phones, right? Every now and then, it's like, "Oh, yep, you're three updates behind. Please restart your phone." Mike: Any more it seems that way, doesn't it? Josh Birk: It really does. They're coming faster. Mike: I never used to fall behind. The other day I was like, "Oh, you're three updates behind," it was something like that. I was like, "How?" Josh Birk: "I thought you were doing this for me." But even if I copied your kitchen one to one, but we also then give me the ability to swap out the drawer that forks are going to be in, or to add a new cabinet and things like that. And the great thing is about metadata is my Rosey instantly knows my new kitchen layout because of the metadata. Now, going back to the blueprint and the description fields and the topics, and also the other thing to mention here is the quality of your data. How well-structured is your kitchen when it comes to, do you have all the forks in one drawer, and the spoons in another drawer? Do you have one of those nice slotted trays? Mike: What do you do if you have a junk drawer? Josh Birk: What do you do if you have a junk drawer? And it's like, what if you have everything in the junk drawer? Well, Rosey's going to have a really hard time finding your fork if everything's in the junk drawer. So, all of these things we're talking about, metadata, description fields, quality of instructions, guard rails, we also have to all go all the way back to the OG. Quality of your...
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Curiosity Is the Key to Learning Agentforce
05/29/2025
Curiosity Is the Key to Learning Agentforce
Today on the Salesforce Admins Podcast, we talk to Amit Malik, the Content Portfolio Lead for AI within Product Education at Salesforce. Join us as we chat about how admins should approach learning Agentforce and bringing AI to their organizations. You should for the full episode, but here are a few takeaways from our conversation with Amit Malik. Learning AI starts with filtering out the noise We often get asked where admins should get started with learning Agentforce, so I brought Amit on the pod to get the inside scoop. In his role as a Content Portfolio Lead for AI in Product Education at Salesforce, he’s in charge of planning the courses that are offered globally about Agentforce and Data Cloud. For Amit, the challenge with teaching AI is what he calls the “knowledge explosion.” There are so many different things that Agentforce can do, and that list is growing daily, so it’s hard to know where to get started. What’s needed is “knowledge distillation.” So the key to learning Agentforce is to focus on the core concepts of how AI works before getting into the specifics. A framework for building with Agentforce Amit goes through five questions you should ask when you’re thinking of building a solution with Agentforce: Is an AI agent the best way to solve this problem? Would it be easier to build a flow? Just because you can solve something with Agentforce doesn’t mean you should. What agent type do you need? Salesforce has several pre-built agent templates for specific use cases, like Service Agent, Employee Agent, or Guided Shopping Agents. Consider those options before trying to build something more complicated. What topics do you want to assign to this agent? Define the set of business problems you want your agent to solve. There are standard pre-built topics like FAQ or escalation, but you can make a custom topic if needed. How will you provide data to your agent? AI is only as good as the data you provide it, so you need to make sure you have everything you need in Data Cloud and set up access with the Agentforce Data Library. What actions do you want the agent to perform? “This is where the magic happens,” Amit says. There are four types of actions: Flow, Apex, API, and Prompt Template. Learning Agentforce is about understanding the layers you’re working with. As Amit explains, an agent is really an aggregation of the topics you decide it can solve. Those topics can be broken down into the specific actions your agent can perform, which it does based on the data you give it access to via Data Cloud. The art of learning is to become curious With twelve years of experience as a Salesforce instructor, Amit’s biggest piece of advice for admins trying to learn Agentforce is to cultivate curiosity. Where many people go wrong is that they approach AI as a solution in search of a problem. That can be like trying to jam a square peg in a round hole. Once you start getting curious about the business problems you’re trying to solve, you’ll find use cases all over the place for AI. But that comes from understanding, specifically, how an AI agent can improve the experience for your users. This makes learning Agentforce simple because you know what you’re trying to do with it. There’s a lot more great stuff about learning, teaching, and working with Agentforce in my conversation with Amit, so be sure to listen to the full episode. And don’t forget to subscribe to the Salesforce Admins Podcast to catch us every Thursday. Podcast swag Learn more Salesforce Admins Podcast Episode: Trailhead: Trailhead: Admin Trailblazers Group Social Love our podcasts? Subscribe today or Full show transcript Mike Gerholdt: Welcome to the Salesforce Admins Podcast. This week, we're joined by Amit Malik, a cloud content portfolio lead at Salesforce. Guess what we're digging into? That's right. Agentforce and Data Cloud, but we're going to talk a little bit different. It's about how admins can confidently navigate AI in their orgs. Amit brings over a decade of instructional experience and delivers a fresh, clear-eyed framework of thinking about AI agents. Trust me, you're going to want to hear this framework. So whether you're new to Agentforce or looking to level up your implementation game, I promise you, Amit breaks down the essentials with clarity and care for us. Plus, we also talk about why doing not just watching is a key to learning because as admins, we do some instruction as well. So it's good to learn from an instructor. Before we start the show, just a reminder to press follow on that podcast platform that you're listening to us. That way you get new shows right on your mobile device so you can listen to them when you're out mowing your yard, which is what I will be doing after I record this episode because it is summer and the grass is growing and it is gorgeous outside. So enjoy this episode with Amit. Go walk your dog or go enjoy some sunshine if it's pretty out where you are at. So with that, let's get Amit on the podcast. All right, Amit, so welcome to the podcast. Amit Malik: Thank you. Mike Gerholdt: I know a few years back you were on to talk about the architect mindset, so I'll be sure to link to that episode, but now we're talking everything Agentforce and Data Cloud and Metadata and Customer 360. But for people that haven't been around listening to the podcast for three years, and there's a few of them, could you reacquaint the audience with what you do at Salesforce and your journey to Salesforce? Amit Malik: Sure. I joined Salesforce in 2013 and I have been lucky to teach audiences across the globe on Salesforce technologies every year, and I've trained on different topics about Salesforce, like whether it's about teaching administrators or developers or consultants, architects. So I've been fortunate to talk about Salesforce aspects to different audiences. In my current role, I'm working on as a cloud content portfolio lead where I'm specializing in Agentforce and Data Cloud. So my role is to plan what kind of courses should we offer to our customers globally so that we can enable our ecosystem on Agentforce and Data Cloud. Mike Gerholdt: Yeah, I mean, there's a lot to learn. I started using the platform back in 2006 and even trying to keep up is a lot, and so I can imagine learning constantly, there's so much. Amit Malik: It's easy. I would say nobody cares what we know in the past. What matters is what we are working today and for next 12 months. Mike Gerholdt: Well, there you go. Amit Malik: So I've always retrained my mind that what I have done in the past does not matter today. What matter is what I will do in next 12 months. Mike Gerholdt: So let's talk about what we're going to do in the next 12 months. I would love to know, this is going to be my first hard question, they're all hard, I think, not to scare you. I don't think it's hard. But I am curious because you're on a different side of the fence than I'm at. What is different about teaching AI than teaching other technologies? Amit Malik: I would say the interesting part here is there is knowledge explosion in the current times. And when a learner is learning, he has multiple channels to learn from and there is no direction what is the right way to spend your time. So what we need is knowledge distillation. We need to tell our learners, if you only have 10 hours, what should you learn in your first 10 hours. Or if you're not time-bound, what are the first 10 words should you know to do your project better in next three months. That my suggestion, that we should stop the noise and try to develop our attention span in these current time of knowledge explosion. Mike Gerholdt: I really like that because there is a sense of needing clarity when there is this much noise out in the world. Do you find when individuals come to your classes that they have a preconceived idea of AI that you might have to work past? Amit Malik: Yes, because the interesting part is that, for example, let's take a word AI agent. If someone is learning about AI agent from Google's perspective or OpenAI perspective or how Claude thinks about it, how we think about it at Salesforce, we may have different explanations, but at the core, AI agent is an AI system. So once we start getting a clarity of thought that where are we heading, we are trying to suggest how do you build a digital labor who will work along with the human at present. Once you know the goal, I think then it does not matter what is your understanding. You just need to understand why are we learning AI agents. Just because people are saying about it? Or do you really believe in the spirit of, "Oh yeah, it makes sense. If I can get my job done autonomously by a AI system, I can be more productive than I am." I think that's where, the why has to start first before you start doing what is what. Mike Gerholdt: Yeah. Yeah, I often think a lot of times solutions come before people see problems and so they make up problems for the solution when in fact they didn't need to make up the problem. They already had it. Amit Malik: Very well said, very well said. I would say in a different way that for every problem, Agentforce is not the answer. So we need to find out a use case and say, "Oh, this is fit for predictive AI, this is fit for generative AI, this is fit for autonomous agents." So when you start as an architect, you start questioning to yourself, "How should you think to arrive at the solution that, oh, this is a use case of Agentforce now." Mike Gerholdt: Yeah, absolutely. So as somebody that has instructed admins, architects, probably even developers, I mean, you run the gamut, because I know I've signed up for developer courses. If you had to describe Data Cloud to an admin and give its relevancy, what would you say? Amit Malik: Very good. So think of Data Cloud as a portion of all your data from multiple data sources. It's a one repository where we want to bring data from multiple data sources. It could be Snowflake, it could be Databricks, it could be AWS, it could be any data source in your enterprise business. And once we have all this data in Data Cloud, that can act as a knowledge for your agent. As the analogy, think like this. When you join as a employee to a new organization, you need to learn about the system. In the same way we want to give the knowledge about systems to our agent so that they can understand the business and then talk to the customer on our behalf about our business. Mike Gerholdt: And I even think beyond just the customer, I mean, even the employee. If you only set up an agent to look internally within your CRM data, that's almost like giving them a book, whereas if you use Data Cloud, it's like giving them a library. Is that a kind of a competent analogy? Would you use that? Amit Malik: Yes. So see, Data Cloud is in simple way exposing all the data sources and how we attach it to the agent technically with the help of Agentforce data library. So we do not want our learners to get worried about Data Cloud so much because in the future or in the present world, we are trying to encapsulate the plumbing of Data Cloud. So if you're a [inaudible 00:08:50], we just ask you to upload the PDF file to Agentforce data library, and then we take care of all the plumbing behind the scene. So as the admin, you just need to know how to upload your data and we take care of everything. And that's the beauty of Salesforce platform that we try to make things simple because our engineers have done a complex job for you. Mike Gerholdt: The irony is it's usually the businesses that make things complex with processes or approvals or reviews. Amit Malik: That's fine. See, we cannot change the business. I think as a technical person, what I've learned over the years is never challenge the business, rather adapt to business. Mike Gerholdt: That's very good. Amit Malik: Because that's a very important learning. If you keep on challenging, because as a technical mindset, we always think, "No, business is not right," but hey, business exist and that where technology exists. So we need to adapt to the business needs and that's where as you grow as an architect, your fight is not to learn technology because you will have lot many people under you who knows much better than you. But your job is to understand what business value business need to create and how do you bridge that gap with the technology solution. That's where the real fun is. You tie up the business outcome. Mike Gerholdt: And I feel like, because I was just going to ask you, back to our first question, how do you kind of filter out the noise? I feel like your previous answer is kind of that, right? Really focusing on what the business outcome, the business need is, right? Amit Malik: Yeah. So I would like to give you a very small framework which I have been using for myself as I've been learning Agentforce from the front, and I'm lucky to be part of all the teams here whom I interact with internally. Mike Gerholdt: I love frameworks. Amit Malik: The first question I would like to give to my learner is ask yourself, do you need AI agent? If the answer comes yes, that yes, you need AI agent, then move forward in Agentforce thinking, because it could be that you can handle something without AI agent and you don't need it. Once your first question is answered to yes, then you move to the second question, what agent type do you need? For that, you need to know what agent types are offered by Salesforce. Like we offer, say, customer agent, which is implemented through Agentforce Service Agent. We offer employee agent, which is for employees. We offer sales agents like SDR agent for initial outreach and booking meetings. We have coach agent, which is for coaching and mentoring. So once you understand our offerings, then you see, okay, given a use case where customer says, "I want my agent to answer business questions and handle my refunds, or tell about my loyalty balance," we know that I need something for service, I need something for customer, so I need a customer agent. So once you start reasoning that I need a agent and I need a customer agent and I can implement customer agent using Service Agent, then comes a third question, what topics do you want to assign to this agent? Now topic is a very interesting vocabulary which we have launched in Salesforce ecosystem, which is how do you define the job to be done? So think of topic as a aggregation of your business process. So if you want your agent to work on, say, loyalty balance check. So that's all the questions about loyalty balance will be handled by loyalty management topic. So that loyalty management topic is like a grouping of all the actions. Once you know the right topics that do you want to leverage the existing topics like standard topics, like say general FAQ or escalation, or do you want to make a custom topic, your third question is answered. Once you have answered the third question, the fourth question is, how will you provide data to your agent? And here where your Data Cloud come into play. Because agent is dumb. Agent does not know anything about your business. So to provide the value to your agent, you need to connect your agent with the data library. And now with Agentforce data library, we support web search, we support files, we support your knowledge articles. So once you understand how do you want to educate your agent, your agent is now having a data about your business. Once these four questions are answered, the fifth question is, do you just want agent to answer the questions or do you also want agent to act upon it? Customer says, "No, I want agent to act upon." And then comes the fifth thing, which is what actions do you want agent to perform? Now this action is where the magic happens, and this is where all the administrators and developers can start working on leveraging their past knowledge. So if you're good in flows, you can have a flow agent action. If you are good in Apex, you can have Apex agent actions. If you're good in API, you can have new soft calls, you can call external services. If you're good in prompt engineering, you can use Prompt template. So depending on the use cases, we give you four reference action types, which is Flow, Apex, API, and Prompt template. Once you have answered to this five questions, now you know a lot about solutioning. So this framework will help you through how to position the right solution for your customer. Mike Gerholdt: I really like that. Thanks for sharing that. And I was thinking through as you were talking through that because we have, I mean, internally we use Salesforce on the admin team to manage our content. And Josh Birk built what we call Agent Goat, which helps us answer questions and create relevant records. We even did something fun, I don't know if you think this is cool, we think this is cool. We uploaded the release notes to Agent Goat and gave that as a resource. Amit Malik: Wonderful. Mike Gerholdt: Yeah. Because then we can ask it about new features. Amit Malik: And recently we launched our Salesforce documentation action. So we can just plug in that action to our agent and now it can start answering questions based on our Salesforce documentation. We just launched. Mike Gerholdt: I mean, there's so much to do. Amit Malik: Yes, that's the fun thing. Once you understand that agent is nothing but aggregation of topics and topic is nothing but aggregation of actions, and actions can happen on your data. So agent, topic, action, data, that's a master framework. Mike Gerholdt: Right. Amit Malik: Once you start thinking on this four words, agent, topic, action, and data, everything will start falling into place. Mike Gerholdt: So I'm curious, and I genuinely don't know the answer to this, but have you been to any of our events and happened to see any of the agents that customers have built that you find really inspiring? Amit Malik: Yes, I was lucky to be part of TDX Bengaluru Hackathon. Mike Gerholdt: Ah, yes. Tell me more. Amit Malik: It was so wonderful to see our customers showcasing the real use cases. Let's say a job application agent, some student is applying for a job, that how we can have a agent which can read the resume and do the shortlisting and send the further steps for the candidate. Or it could be other scenarios which customers were showing in insurance that how we can process the claims with the claim agent. Or as we know in the Conquer, for example, expenses, how we can have expenses being reviewed by agent and auto approve, saving the time of senior management to approve the expenses. So see, once you start thinking of use cases, then the value is derived. The value is not in technology. The value is in applying the technology to benefit the customer and improving the customer experience. Mike Gerholdt: And would you also extend the customer for admins and architects and developers to users of Salesforce, not just external customers of your organization? Amit Malik: Yes. So let me define this. So here, when I say customer, so customer is, say, Marriott who is buying our Salesforce license, or any customer who buys our Salesforce license. And then in that customer, we have employees who are using our product, they're our end users, and if this customer is further implementing our solution for their customers, then they become end user. Mike Gerholdt: Yep, that makes sense. Amit, I'm curious, in the instructional side of Salesforce and having done instruction for a long time, if you were to look into a crystal ball a...
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Why Secure AI Starts With You: What Admins Must Know About Agentforce
05/22/2025
Why Secure AI Starts With You: What Admins Must Know About Agentforce
Why Secure AI Starts With You: What Admins Must Know About Agentforce Today on the Salesforce Admins Podcast, we talk to Sri Srinivasan, Senior Director of Information Security at Salesforce. Join us as we chat about what admins need to know about Agentforce and how to build secure AI experiences. You should for the full episode, but here are a few takeaways from our conversation with Sri Srinivasan. Quick heads-up before we get started: This episode may include forward-looking statements—things we're excited about, but not yet available. So please make any purchasing decisions based only on products and features that are currently available. For all the legal details, visit . The hidden job of AI security: admins build the brakes Sri gave a great TDX presentation about AI security and the crucial role admins play in the future of Agentforce. “Admins are key to everything that we do,” he emphasizes, “they understand everything that's happening within their environment. They know which actions, what permissions, what they do, and agents are just another avenue to expose and interact with this crux of it.” As Sri puts it, Agentforce is like a sports car in terms of what it can do with your data. But how fast would you drive a sports car with no brakes? That’s why admins are so important in the age of AI. We can build the brakes for Agentforce to make sure our agents are behaving correctly. Five questions to ask when building secure Agentforce experiences Security conversations can get very scary very quickly, but Sri boils it down to five questions admins should ask when they’re building with Agentforce: What is the agent’s role and scope? What data will the agent have access to? Which actions should be public and which should be private? Do you need to build any extra guardrails? Which channels will the agent use? The key here is practicing the principle of least privilege. And for admins, that comes down to managing permissions and profiles in Salesforce and following security best practices. Every agent runs as a user—and that user needs to be tightly scoped. Test before you trust: scaling with the Agentforce Testing Center Going back to the idea of brakes, Sri cautions that just because you built an agent fast doesn’t mean that it’s ready. Luckily, his team has been hard at work on new tools to help you make sure your agents are working as intended. The new Agentforce Testing Center helps simulate and validate agent behavior at scale—without needing a QA army. You’re also able to peek under the hood to understand why an agent made a certain choice—turning debugging into decision-making clarity. Be sure to listen to the full episode for more on what admins need to know about Agentforce. And don’t forget to subscribe to the Salesforce Admins Podcast so you never miss out. Podcast swag Learn more Sri at TDX: More from TDX: Trailhead: Blog: Admin Trailblazers Group Social Full show transcript Mike Gerholdt: This week on the Salesforce Admins Podcast, we're talking with Sri Srinivasan about secure, reliable AI experiences with Agentforce. Now, Sri is a leader on the security compliance customer trust team at Salesforce, where he helps customers understand and implement security best practices. Of course, before we get into this episode, be sure to follow the Salesforce Admins Podcast wherever you get your podcasts. That way you get a new episode every Thursday delivered right to your phone or your mobile device. So with that, let's get into our conversation with Sri. So Sri, welcome to the podcast. Sri Srinivasan: Thanks for having me here, Mike. Super excited for it. Mike Gerholdt: Well, I love the presentation that you gave at TDX, and I'm sure more people would love to hear about it too, which is why I wanted to have you come back on, because everything now is Agentforce and security is always top of mind. I've always preached security ever since I started at Salesforce. I've had, I think, Laura Pelkey on quite a few times. But that was the compass of what you talked about at TDX. But I'm jumping ahead. Let's talk about you a little bit. Tell me kind of where you got started and how you got to Salesforce. Sri Srinivasan: Let me try to make it very sweet and sharp. So I have always been in security. I have a master's in information management specializing in security. I worked for big four accounting firms, but not doing accounting. I did security for them, data security and data privacy. Then I ended up working for a little gaming company where I really got involved in security, due diligence. Was a small company based out of Reno, but they were not really small. They did almost all gaming systems, all gaming interactions, lottery, all across the world. So that got me exposed to different systems and more specifically around fraud and how systems can be hacked to do things that they shouldn't be doing. That's where I got more interested in understanding the lay of the land of security. I spent about five, six years there. Then I got an opportunity to work for one of the biggest tax preparers in the United States. I ran their cyber fraud operations group for two years down there, and then my business teams, product teams came over to me and said, "Sri, you've been on the other side yelling at us to do a better job. Why don't you come on this side and do that?" So I spent a couple of years on the product side as well. Then during COVID, I was looking back at my life when we had lots of time at home, and I realized I've done a lot of the security functions in total audit, GRC, red teaming, blue teaming, security operations center, fraud operations. One thing that I thought I did not have was that customer-facing experience, and this great opportunity came about at Salesforce, and my role currently in Salesforce is to interact with customers. My team, security compliance customer trust, is the front-facing team for all customer-facing security inquiries around security, compliance, and trust. So that's how I got here, and I've been here for about five years or so, almost five. It feels like I just started yesterday, and it's amazing. Every time I meet a customer, I just feel excited. Mike Gerholdt: Yeah. I mean, if I had to go back in time and pick a career in tech, I feel like security is one that you're always going to have a job because if there's a lock out there, I promise you there's probably somebody trying to break it. Sri Srinivasan: Yep. I hear you. And the frustrating part about is that it's oftentime not people trying to break the lock. It's just people forgetting to lock their locks, and then figuring out like, "Hey, how did somebody get in?" Well, you didn't lock it at the first place. Mike Gerholdt: Yep. Oh, man. Speaking the truth. So it feels like there's kind of two eras. Well, I mean, we talk about different waves at Salesforce, but to me there's the pre-AI era and then there's the post-AI era. And for a long time, up until I saw your presentation, I kind of didn't think about security with AI, because most of everything that we do on the platform is just so secure, but let's talk about what your presentation at TDX was. So kind of in a nutshell, bring us into that presentation and what you talked about. Sri Srinivasan: Sure. I think what the intent was, AI is the hype word right now. So everybody's talking about LLMs, everyone's talking about how to protect those LLMs, but that's just the tip of the iceberg. There's so much more when it comes to implementing AI right. Salesforce provides you with a very secure platform, but is only as secure as you implement it. So that was kind of the crux of the presentation where we actually articulated the shared responsibility model in terms of what is expected is you as a customer, you as an admins, what are the few five or 10 things that you want to question anybody in your organization that is wanting to come up with an AI solution? And we wanted to break it down from a business case perspective, in a sense, if you look at all of our top tracks around Agentforce, we break it down into role, data, actions, guardrails, and channels. Those are the things that your business users are very familiar with. If we can build security into those aspects, by nature of it, we're building security into the product itself, rather than coming at the end and saying, "Now I'm going to do a security review and I'm going to add security on top of it." So that's what we were focusing on during the presentation. Things around being very cognizant on what is the role of the agent, what is the scope of the agent, what will it do? What will it not do? What data it will have access to, and where is that data coming from? Do we need to bring that data into the Salesforce system? Do we need the agent to have access to that? Other critical things, such as least privilege, access controls, designing your actions securely. Those are the things that we spoke about during our presentation, most of which, if you just took it out of context and put it in a paper, none of this should be new words. All of this is standard security practices, but the way it's applied, the lens through which you look at it, is a little different when it comes to Agentforce. Mike Gerholdt: Yeah, I think it's always interesting as we delve into new tech when you think of security as really telling the agent what it should and shouldn't do. Wow. Because most people, I think, probably encapsulate security into permissions and profiles and data access, but also what it should and shouldn't do is also security, right? One of the things you mentioned in your answers was guardrails. And I'm wondering, can you give us some examples of what could go wrong if guardrails aren't set properly? Sri Srinivasan: Yeah. So I'm trying to give a better example here because I don't want it to be something that is future-looking, but rather what's in the product today. So when you give your agent guardrails, a simple one could be your agent instructions. Under no circumstances should I ask for your email address or customer name or your order number because I have all that information. If I can validate Mike, I have all that information. I shouldn't be asking you to give me that information and assume that is right. So that's a very simple guardrail that you can throw into your system, right? Another set of guardrails could be you shall not perform these actions without having the user verified. You need to know who the user is before you can go and reset his password, or you need to have their second factor. You need to do a step-up authentication before you can trigger these actions, things of that sort. And what agent does with our Agent Builder, you can start providing these as natural language instructions. And the system would know. Mike Gerholdt: One thing I was thinking of, so I'm going to ask a silly question, because when we talk security, I feel like I'm the person that has to ask the silly questions. So I'm going to do that. You mentioned one thing of, well, I'm going to set the guardrail if it shouldn't have access, or it shouldn't ask for the order number because the person looking at the screen has the order number. Why is that important if we're not passing an order number to an agent? Why would we withhold data to an agent? Sri Srinivasan: So we're not actually withholding the data to an agent. The reason why we don't want to explicitly ask the user for certain information is not just to ask, but we can ask, but we shouldn't trust that information. It's the innate concept of trust but verify. I can ask you for this information, but that's not a great user experience because I already know your account number, your order number. I have all that information. But rather, what I don't have is I don't know who's on the other side of the system. So that's more important for me when I say that you shall not ask for it. The reason why I explicitly state that is because I don't need this information from you. I already have it. What I need from you is to validate who you are. Once I know you're Mike and this is the associated user ID, I have all the other information. Are you able to connect those dots? Mike Gerholdt: Yeah, no, I totally get it now. I mean, guardrails, I guess I was envisioning guardrails as like those bumpers that you put up when you go bowling and you're not very good at it so you roll a strike every time. And it's kind of that, but it's also kind of that to make sure that the conversation and the agent is flowing in a natural manner so that you're actually being productive is the way I hear it. So that totally makes sense. Sri Srinivasan: 100%. And what we have, it's currently in pilot, is we have instruction adherence. So this is basically our systems, our Atlas Reasoning Engine has supervisory elements that are constantly looking at those conversations and getting metrics around key aspects such as instruction adherence, coherence, how factual it is, how grounded it is. These are then used to decide how the user experience should be. For example, if there is an instruction that says you shall not ask for the password through the portal, and if the system has to ask for the password, then the instruction adherence will be low and it will be ungrounded because it's going to do something that is not grounded in its instructions. So then we can set the system to say, "Block those transactions, don't do it." So the agent would say, "Hey, sorry, I cannot help you here." Whereas on the other cases, maybe we can say, "We don't have enough information," so then we can build the system in a way that it starts asking for more information so it has all the information that it needs to help you. So these are some things that are coming out. These are our guardrails that are happening when the system's executing. Mike Gerholdt: Yeah, no, it makes sense. I mean, you wouldn't have to teach somebody the history of math, algebra, geometry, and trigonometry if all you were going to ask them is what is two plus two? And that totally makes sense to me now. Like I'm rethinking guardrails in a completely different way now. I just learned something on my own podcast. Light bulb moment. Let's talk about that. You mentioned you're talking with a lot of customers. Tell me about, you don't have to be specific, but what were some of the aha moments that stood out when you were working with admins or customers and they finally, I don't want to say finally, but there's always that moment where you finally make a really good egg and you're like, "Oh my God, I know how to fry eggs now," using that as an example because I'm cooking eggs, but can you kind of give me that, because I feel like I get to see it a lot with some of the workshops, but it's probably a little bit different for everybody. Sri Srinivasan: So off-lead, one of the biggest aha moments that I have experienced with admins is I do run these AI workshops at these world tours, and it is really eye-opening for them to look at the Agent Builder in the middle section. When they start looking at the reasoning, they now know why an agent does something that it did. So what are the biggest reasons why this whole agents are a little complicated and different is under the hood, agents use LLMs, right? And we all know what LLM is famous for, right? They're non-deterministic. What do I mean by being non-deterministic? By non-deterministic, I mean that the same input can give you different outputs at different times. And earlier, like I think about a year and a half ago, one of the bigger problems with LLMs were they hallucinate. It's still a problem, but we have figured out how to solve it. We provide it with more data, we ground it with more truth, so that it is then working within this construct. We have RAG, we have a lot of other things that we have actually provided to solve that problem. But the other problem of being non-deterministic is still there, right? And that is why when you start looking at the Agent Builder and you can start looking at the reasoning sections, our Atlas Reasoning Engine is basically telling you there which topic did I choose, what was the utterance that was provided. By utterance, I mean what the user typed. What topic did I choose based on the utterance. And once I chose the topic, what action I chose and I executed the action. But before I execute the action, I did a plan of executing the action. If I did execute the actions, here are the guardrails, here are the runtime guardrails that I would have triggered or I would've violated. And hence, I chose not to provide this answer, or hence I chose to go on to the next step. So when admins look at it, it instantly clicks in their mind. "Okay, this is how the agent worked." And that also allows them to understand, "Oh, if I were to tweak this one word, maybe the agent would react a different way." And then they go in and they try that and they're like, "Whoa, wow. Now I've actually cracked the code of agents." That has personally been one of the biggest aha moments for me. Mike Gerholdt: Yeah, I mean, for me, it was always, I love when I help admins and myself build a prompt, and especially when we do grounding, and then we'll bind it to a field on a page, that's always very simple, and they press this, I call it the sparkle button, and they get a response back and it's like, "Wow." And it's consistent enough, but it's not like a chatbot, right? It's not like an email template. It's a little bit different every time. But that feeling of AI isn't scary and it's not hard to do, you can see it sort of start to melt away. Sri Srinivasan: Right. 100%. And in those same scenarios, I've seen admins go really crazy when they do the dropdown in the prompt builder and they say, "Oh, so Sri, I can actually bring in data from an Apex class?" I'm like, "Yeah, you can." And now they're able to relate AI to the things that it's dear and near to them, actions, flows, and Apex classes. Admins, that's their bread and butter, they know that in and out. So now when they're able to look at that and they're like, "Oh, it's as simple as using this in the AI world," I feel they get very empowered and they're like, "Okay, let me go play with it more now." Mike Gerholdt: Yep. Let's touch on permissions for a little bit because I know you covered that in your presentation... Words. What are some common pitfalls? Because I know that I've gotten questions at the Agentforce NOW Tour about setting up permissions and giving people access to Agentforce, but what are some things that are just real easy things that most people trip over? Sri Srinivasan: So one thing to understand when it comes to permissions is every time you create a service agent, those agents are running as their own designated user. We are going to be releasing employee agents pretty soon. Again, forward-looking statement supply. Employee agents actually run as the underlying user that are executing it. So if you are in your CRM panel, the right-hand side, Einstein Copilot panel we used to call it, that, now you can start interacting with it, those are kind of like the employee agents where it runs as Mike. Whereas if I create a service agent and you're interacting it through any of the different channels through WhatsApp or through an Experience Cloud, you have to designate a running user. And oftentimes, folks will create a brand new user. And good thing is that this user comes with no permissions, which is good, but the downside of it is it will not be able to do anything. So similar to your standard profiles, licenses, permissions, object and record level, all of those needs to be assigned to this user. And sometimes what folks...
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How Salesforce Is Transforming Certification for New and Experienced Users
05/15/2025
How Salesforce Is Transforming Certification for New and Experienced Users
Today on the Salesforce Admins Podcast, we talk to Dana Walton, Senior Manager of Credential Programs and Operations at Salesforce. Join us as we chat about how the certification experience is evolving with smarter personalization, easier access, and a learning journey built just for you. You should for the full episode, but here are a few takeaways from our conversation with Dana Walton. Certifications are moving to Trailhead Academy Dana has been working on the certification team since 2015. When she started, Salesforce had nine certifications. Today, they offer 83. I sat down with her for this episode because her team is finishing a two-year project to overhaul the certification experience. The biggest change coming is that certifications are moving to Trailhead Academy. While you can still go completely self-guided with your learning, Dana and her team are making it easier to find the help you need—whether that’s an instructor-led course or curated Trailmixes and modules. Why skills are the most important factor in choosing new certifications One thing that Dana wanted to know during testing was how her team could help people figure out which certifications they should work on next. She asked Salesforce MVPs how they choose new certifications to target: are they looking for things that fit a specific role? A particular product? The answer was none of the above. The Salesforce MVPs in Dana’s testing group look for certifications based on what new skills they can learn. Armed with that knowledge, her team added a skills breakdown for each cert to make things easier to browse. They’re also adding more personalization to your Salesforce learning journey, with AI recommendations to help you plan your roadmap. Dana emphasizes that these are recommendations, not requirements. Your certification experience can still be completely self-guided; they’ve just added a helping hand. Why certification is the final step on your learning journey If she could give one piece of advice to admins looking for the next steps in their Salesforce learning journey, it’s that you need to look at every possible pathway. “Certification is not how you learn,” she says, “it’s how you prove the skills and knowledge that you’ve already learned.” Go to Trailhead, reach out to the community, or find a mentor who can help you understand what you’re getting into and create achievable goals for yourself. And then, when you’re ready, certification will be a breeze. Be sure to listen to the full episode for more from my conversation with Dana about what’s coming next for the certification experience. And don’t forget to subscribe to the Salesforce Admins Podcast so you can catch us in your feed every Thursday. Podcast swag Learn more Salesforce Admins Podcast Episode: Admin Trailblazers Group Social Full show transcript Mike: Welcome to the Salesforce Admins Podcast. Today we're sitting down with Dana Walton from the Salesforce certification team. Dana is here to share how the certification experience is evolving. I want you to think smarter personalization, easier access, and a learning journey built just for you. We'll talk about the exciting move to Trailhead Academy and how it's making certifications more accessible than ever. Be sure to stick around. I promise you're going to walk away and be ready to take your next step in that Salesforce ecosystem. And hey, if you enjoy this episode, go ahead and give us a follow wherever you listen to podcasts. So with that, let's get Dana on the podcast. So, Dana, welcome to the podcast. Dana Walton: Thank you. I'm excited to be here. Mike: I'm excited to talk about certification. I've been talking about it ever since 2008 when I first got certified, which is a super long time ago. But let's get started with you. Tell us a little bit about how you got to Salesforce and what you do at Salesforce. Dana Walton: Happy to. You predate me just a little. Yes, but I mean, I think in terms of longevity, I hit Koa this year, so I'm very excited. Mike: Congrats. Thank you. And for those of you that don't know, Koa is 10 years. Dana Walton: Yes. So my 10-year anniversary will be in June, and I have been a part of the certification team for almost all of my tenure. I joined in October 2015 because I started as a contractor and then got hired on through the certification team, and I have been a part of the growth of this program since then, and it's been really excited to see when we first were in a very... When I joined, we only had nine certifications. Mike: Only. Only nine. Dana Walton: Only nine. Now we have 83. It's been quite a journey. Mike: Wow. I didn't know that. I'm having a moment. 83. Holy cow. Dana Walton: Through natural growth and then through mergers and acquisitions, we are now up to 83. Mike: Yeah, I didn't really think about that. I always think of the homegrown. Somebody reminded me the other day that my Salesforce experience would be graduating from high school. I'm like, "Oh." Dana Walton: It hurts when people talk like that. That's not fair. Mike: Oh, well, okay. Maybe we'll get into a good college, grow up. But honestly, I do remember that first time I took the certification. This was '08. It was a long time ago. I had to drive 90 miles one way to a testing center. I also live in Iowa, so look, it's fair. Salesforce was like, "Look- Dana Walton: It's still extreme. Mike: I don't know. We're used to it in the Midwest. They only need one spot. I could see somebody saying, "How many people besides Mike are really going to get a certification in Iowa anyway?" But I remember taking the test. I was the only one in the room. I got done. And then there's that moment where you're like, "Okay, I think I've answered all the questions." I click Submit, and then you're expecting a result, and at the time, I think it asked you a followup question, "How was your certification experience or something?" I was like, "I don't know. Just tell me if I passed or not." I was like, "It's great." And then I clicked and it was pass, and I remember I stood up and shout. Really loud. I was like, "Woo-hoo," really loud, and I kicked the chair over and the proctor ran in. I was like, "I passed." And she's like, "Be quiet." I was like, "There's nobody in here." I was so excited. Dana Walton: If you did 2008, you must have been one of our beta testers because the program didn't officially launch until 2009. Mike: Yeah, I was one of the first 500 for admin and for advanced admin Dana Walton: My goodness. Congratulations. Mike: Yeah. So very exciting. So this is what we're talking about, the new certification experience. Dana Walton: Yes. This is- Mike: Go ahead. Go ahead. Dana Walton: Sorry. I'm really excited about this product because I've been working on it for two years. Mike: Wow Dana Walton: And so we're at the finish line. We're so close. We're about to start user acceptance testing, so I'm really anxious to see how people are responding to what we've built. And the whole experience that we are building is really with the end user in mind. We rethought the entire journey of what a user would experience when it comes to how they would get started with Salesforce certifications. Where would they go to find information? And we realized that it's a really disparate journey that we offer to our users. We assume a lot on their behalf, and we wanted to roll that back and really come at it from both an expert and a beginner mindset. So first things first. It's moving to Trailhead Academy, which is the learning platform of Salesforce, and we're really excited because it brings a combined experience of both instructor-led training and certification onto the same platform. So when you go to Trailhead Academy, you are first introduced to both instructor-led courses, instructor-led training, and then you can also look up certifications, and you can start your journey wherever you choose. If you feel confident in your certification goal, you don't have to take any classes. You can go ahead and get started and register right away, but if you want to brush up on some skills or if you're net new, we also provide the learning resources on the exam pages that will help you out. And it's not just instructor-led training. We still link out to Trailhead modules and Trailmixes, and those are curated by the certification team and aligned directly to the exam objectives. So we don't forget the learner in all of this experience, but we bring it together in a new platform that then uses single sign-on through TBID so we can continue building that journey out for you as you grow in experience through Salesforce. Mike: Nice. I like that. I mean, the goal is the certification, but the journey is learning and understanding everything so that you not only have the certification, but you have the knowledge behind that certification. Dana Walton: And we're building in personalization too, so it's not just you have this certification, but it helps you figure out what's the next one on your roadmap. So if you already have started building some skills, we're going to use algorithms and AI to suggest new skills or new certifications for you to focus on next, because a lot of questions that we get from our users is, "I've done this. Where do I go to after that?" Mike: Yeah. I mean, I think that's always the discussion around certification. It's always the question I get is, "Where do I start?" Even with Trailhead modules, where do I start? Dana Walton: It's a lot. There's so much that's offered these days that figuring out that entry point can be really challenging. We have a new format for our catalog where we also highlight exams without prerequisites, so that way we're not sending you to focus on something that you're not ready to take. If you haven't earned that prerequisite, you can start at the entry level and then work your way up or stay wherever you're most comfortable. Mike: So in your initial introduction, we talked about 83 different certs through acquisitions and just growth, which still amazes me. I thought it was 18 or 20. I was like, "Oh, 18 or 20." No, 83. I'd love to know, when you looked at that whole family of how everything had grown organically and through acquisitions, what were some of the challenges or opportunities that you were looking to solve in this new experience? Dana Walton: I think the biggest opportunity or challenge that we were focused on is the fact that our audiences are so different. When you just look at it purely from an M&A perspective, you have Slack. You have Tableau. You have MuleSoft. You have accredited professional. All of those users come from a different experience for how they get certified, for how they maintain their credential, and then we have to bring them onto the Salesforce way of doing things, which is jarring in a lot of ways, because as you know with Salesforce, we like to do our own thing. We don't necessarily like to follow prescribed paths, and so trying to bridge the Salesforce method versus the history that those programs have can be really challenging for the audience. And so we're trying to be mindful in how we roll that out with the, again, challenge of the fact that we're still going to do it this way. We're going to try and bring you on slowly. Mike: You also mentioned that learning journey, the personalization, and I think that's one thing where you always have to think of... And I was a learner. I still am a learner. You're never not a learner. Where you're trying to go and the questions you're trying to ask. How does that personalization work for an individual who may only know the next year or two? Dana Walton: Well, with all the personalization, it is recommendations, not requirements. Mike: Got you. Dana Walton: And so we will look at the skills or the product areas that overlap between credentials and really say, "Okay, based on where you are, here's where we think you may be going." But it is not a requirement. It is not a checkbox that you have to complete. If you decide that, "I want to pivot and do something else," you are absolutely more than welcome to do that, and we will still support you through that journey as well. Mike: Got you. Yeah, it's always trying to understand where you want to go, because the platform is so big and so vast at some points that I don't know if there's any one person even on your team that knows everything. Dana Walton: I would not assume that at all, and I think that that's where the community is still going to be a great resource for users because we can only tell you from our experience of what we think aligns, but somebody else may out there may say, "Oh, actually, because of this really interesting job path that I took, I had these different certifications that you wouldn't think would overlap, but they serve me really well." Mike: Absolutely. I believe you said at the very beginning you're in user feedback beta testing. Dana Walton: We are about to start. Mike: About to start. Dana Walton: We haven't officially started yet, but that is our next goal. Mike: Okay. Okay. I was going to ask you what kind of feedback you were getting. Dana Walton: Well, actually, when we first introduced this project, we brought it to our MVP audience first, because before we built anything, we wanted to make sure that what we were building made sense for them. Mike: Okay. Dana Walton: Now, they are the experts, so we had to caveat that a little bit because they know Salesforce so incredibly well, and we still had to think about the people who don't know Salesforce that well. For instance, something that I thought was really interesting from MVPs, when we were trying to segment our certifications and show different filters in the catalog, one of the things we asked them was, "What do you focus on when you're filtering? Is it skill? Is it level? Is it role?" And I thought it would be role or product. And they completely flipped the script on that and they said, no, they want to build skills. So whenever they're looking at a certification, they want to know what skills that aligns to and then they'll fit it where it needs to fit. But that's where they are in their journey. And so we added a skills option. We put it on each certification page that this aligns to these skills to help bridge that gap of knowledge area that we hadn't highlighted previously. We still have the ability to segment by role or segment by product, but we added this new feature as well because it was missing from the previous experience. Mike: Yeah. Funny story: when I did get back after taking the certification, I ran into my boss's office, and at the time, as the admin, I reported to the president of the division. That's a long story, but I ran in and I was like, "Is So-and-so in?" And his assistant was like, "Yep, just go ahead. Go inside." And I ran inside. I was like, "I passed. I'm certified." He was like, "Great, what does that mean?" And if it had been a sitcom at that point, the sound of all of the air rushing out of a balloon would have been made. Because it's like, ah. But the reason I get at that is a lot of career building, a lot of what you do and skill shows through the certification. So I'd love to know how this new experience helps admins, developers, members of the ecosystem track their career and grow their career. Dana Walton: I think that is definitely something that we will focus on for the next iteration. We have not really focused on the career side of the house yet. Well, I will say that everything that we're doing will still integrate and update your Trailblazer profile, so we're not taking that away from you. When you have your certifications on your Trailblazer profile, that is still the source of truth or your certification history. But when it comes to how this experience directly impacts how that reflects on your career, we're not quite there yet. I think it is a great question and a great lens to look at, but in phase one, we're just building the brand new platform and make sure that it functions. Phase two is really about, okay, now that this is live, what else can it do? Mike: Yeah, and I love pivoting off of the skills thing, because then you can also look at adjacent skills and maybe a certification will stand out to you that you weren't previously aware. I think I did a podcast a couple episodes ago and there's a strategic design certification. Dana Walton: Strategy designer, yes. Mike: Strategy designer, thank you, that Melissa Hill Dees brought up, and I had no idea that certification existed. Dana Walton: Yes. And for instance, somebody may look at strategy designer and say, "I don't think that really applies to me," but maybe you're business analyst, and why wouldn't that apply to you? Just because you're not actually the UX designer doesn't mean that you're not involved in the strategy of whatever project or company or direction you're working on. Mike: So let me ask, because there's 83 and I can't possibly know them all. Maybe you don't. I am hearing from you that there are certifications that also include non-technical skills. Dana Walton: Not a ton. Mike: Not a ton. Dana Walton: But there are a few. Mike: Okay. Dana Walton: Yes. So for instance... Well, I will say our certification names are going to be changing as a part of this experience. Mike: Well, of course it's Salesforce. Dana Walton: Of course. Mike: We change the name all the time. Dana Walton: So I'm going to reference the old name right now, but if people are listening once the experience is live, those names may have changed. Quick caveat. But for instance, sales representative. That is not a technical focus. That is an end-user focus. It is about what key skills, core concepts, do you have as an end user in Salesforce that you need to be able to apply to your job? Mike: I like it. Dana Walton: Then, similar... Well actually, I would say business analyst does have some technical overlap. Even though we did take away the admin prerequisite, you still need to know some admin skills as a business analyst. Strategy designer would be another good example. It's more knowledge-based, and not knowledge in skills, but knowledge and capabilities that you need to be able to be successful in that certification. I feel like I'm just now going through all of the different things that we offer, and I'm trying to think. You put me on the spot. Mike: Right. Dana Walton: The majority of our exams are technical-focused. The vast majority are. Mike: But I think it's also good to know that there's non-technical ones out there to really grow that skill. Dana Walton: I mean, this is definitely something that most of your admins, I don't know if it applies to them, but for folks who are not admins but are aspiring to be, getting started with our associate certification, so we have Salesforce certified associate, that really is not technical at all. It's just understanding, how does Salesforce work? How does Trailhead work? And then if that's something you want to keep growing in, admin may be the next logical path for you. Mike: Yeah. No, I've seen that one. I think it's great. It also helps explain things when you have a friend that's like, "I hear you do Salesforce. What's that?" and they look at you. Because Salesforce is a platform, if you introduce it to most admins, they fundamentally see it as a B2B CRM platform, and, "That's just alphabet soup you threw at me." "No, here's how this works." And then once they conceptualize it, "Okay, great. A lot of people buy this?" You're like, "Yes, a lot of people do buy this." So it's an actual conversation I've had with a friend, I suppose. Dana Walton: You're right, because it's overwhelming, so it's nice to be able to break it down into digestible portions. Mike: Well, yeah. I mean, most people already assume they're going to go in overwhelmed when you start talking about technology...
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Building with Agentforce and Flow: A Developer’s Hackathon Experience
05/08/2025
Building with Agentforce and Flow: A Developer’s Hackathon Experience
Today on the Salesforce Admins Podcast, we talk to Melissa Hansen, Co-Founder and Principal Architect at HiFi Consulting Group, RAD Women Curriculum Lead, and Salesforce MVP. Join us as we chat about her journey from fixing printers to developing an agent-powered scheduling tool in the TDX Agentforce Hackathon on Team MH4. You should for the full episode, but here are a few takeaways from our conversation with Melissa Hansen. How Melissa started her career as a Salesforce Developer Melissa started her career at a nonprofit, where she was the go-to person for troubleshooting tech issues. “You just become the person who’s best at fixing the printer, and then fixing the database, and then, before you know it, you’re a database administrator,” she says. These days, Melissa is a developer, a consultant, and a Salesforce MVP for her work with RAD Women. She’s also a member of Team MH4, and I brought her on the pod to hear what building a conference scheduling agent in 16 hours was like from the dev side of things. Building an agent-powered scheduling tool at the TDX Agentforce Hackathon Melissa is not someone who wants to be up until midnight coding, but she was so excited about the solution they were building that it was worth the sacrifice. Like most people on the team, it was her first time making something with Agentforce, and this was a great use case to learn more about it. One of the biggest challenges for Melissa in going from building with code to grounding an agent is that the output is nondeterministic. In other words, if you run an automation, you expect to get the same results every time you give it the same data. Agents don’t work that way, they’ll give you something slightly different every time, and so you need to account for that in how you build and test your solution. To code or not to code, that is the question We don’t always have a chance to talk to devs on the pod, so I wanted to hear what Melissa thinks about admin and developer collaboration. For her, the most important conversation to have is around automations. Flow is a powerful tool for automations, but it’s not the only game in town. Melissa’s seen her share of scary flows for things that would be fairly straightforward in Apex. For her, the biggest determining factor is who will maintain the automation after it’s up and running. As no-code tools like Flow and Agentforce continue to improve, it’s especially important for admins and devs to help each other out. There are so many more great insights from Melissa on where Agentforce is headed and how to work with developers, so be sure to listen to the full episode. And don’t forget to subscribe to the Salesforce Admins Podcast so you can catch us every Thursday. Podcast swag Learn more Salesforce Admins Podcast Episode: Salesforce Admins Podcast Episode: Admin Trailblazers Group Social Love our podcasts? Subscribe today or Full Transcript Mike: Ever gone from changing printer ink to writing Apex code? Melissa Hansen has and she's here to tell us all about it. So, today's episode, I am chatting with Melissa Hansen, Salesforce MVP, RAD Women Curriculum lead and longtime champion of nonprofit tech. We talk about her journey from, well, fixing printers to architecting agent-powered scheduling tools and what she learned working on the team of MH to the Power of Four at the TDX Hackathon. Now, she shares her thoughts on building ai, designing for users, and what every admin should ask their developers. So, you don't want to miss this one. Now, be sure to follow this podcast on whatever platform you listen to so that you never miss an episode. And with that, let's get Melissa on the podcast. So, Melissa, welcome to the podcast. Melissa Hansen: Thank you so much for having me. I'm excited to be here. Mike: I'm excited. This whole series of talking to the MH to the Power of Four team has been such a thrill because I know we've done hackathons... by the time this episode comes out, we've done a hackathon at TDX in India. I know there's a virtual hackathon we've done. I feel like we've done hackathons everywhere, but it's such an interesting perspective because I was at TDX in San Francisco. I saw some of the teams working, but to sit down with each of you, and hear the perspective and what happened through your eyes is such a neat way of hearing the story and getting the full vibe of what's going on. So, before we get into that though, Melissa, tell us a little bit about yourself, and what you do in the Salesforce ecosystem and how you got on this Power of Four team. Melissa Hansen: Oh, sure. Yeah, I've been in the ecosystem for quite a while now. I think just over 15 years, which blows my mind. I was on a path that I think a lot of nonprofit listeners would be familiar with, which is I was in-house at nonprofits starting at the very beginning of my career and slowly moved into the technology side of things. You just become the person who's best at fixing the printer, and then fixing the database and finding the data. And before it, you're a database administrator. And I was at an organization that was adopting Salesforce in 2010. Yep, 2010. And that's how I got started. I began as an admin and I was at an organization who had some really incredible developers who were really encouraging and mentored me as I started to pick up Apex and the developer side of things. And I just loved it so much. I loved the platform and that has really been my whole career from then becoming a developer. All the way to, in 2020, after being a developer at a nonprofit for about almost 10 years, a coworker and I split off and started our own consulting group to work with other nonprofits and build out Salesforce solutions. So, that's been my overall arc. Also, I'm a Salesforce MVP Hall of Fame, and a big part of that is because of my work with RAD Women Code. Mike: Ah, a connecting Factor. I've talked to a lot of RAD Women coders. Melissa Hansen: Yes, it's such a cool organization. I was a coach in the very first round of RAD Women. Angela Mahoney, who Is an incredible connector in our ecosystem, and a lot of your listeners may know of her, invited me to coach. And I had some feedback on the curriculum and ended up taking over the curriculum as this wanted to happen. Yeah, so I've been with RAD since the very beginning. I work on the curriculum. And it's one of my very favorite things that I've done, just working with so many women and non-binary folks who are on that same developer journey I was, and who want to learn more about coding. I know this is an admin podcast, but this is our target audience for Rad, too. Mike: So, let me talk about that for a second because I feel like that's an unnecessary division that people have sown. There's admins that know how to code. Just because you code doesn't mean you have to identify as a developer. Melissa Hansen: Yeah, no, and that's a great point. And I think in Salesforce in particular, there's a ton of overlap because the declarative automation tools have become so sophisticated. If you're building some of these more complex, complicated flows, I mean you're a developer. Mike: And vice versa, too. So, how did you get connected to the other MHers? Melissa Hansen: Yes, I do all of them from for quite some time, mostly through the community. I think they're all MVPs as well. Marisa is a developer. I think she does more on the consulting side now outside of development. But Michelle and Melissa are both people who are at a lot of conferences. And we've just been really good friends and colleagues, but we've never actually worked directly together prior to the hackathon. So, that was a really cool opportunity. Mike: Yeah, it brought a lot of people together. Melissa Hansen: It really did. And I'll admit that I had initial reluctance because I am not a person who wants to be up until midnight coding. Not really my happy space. And so, I was a little, I don't know, and I've got a lot of other stuff to do. But boy, Melissa Hill Dees is very good at convincing you. And I was happy to be convinced because once we started talking about what we might build if we were to do this, we've found some really great use cases. And that's what I got really excited about actually, building something. Mike: Yeah, I mean, I talked with Melissa on previous episodes and Marissa about the conference scheduling app, which I've worked a lot in scheduling environments with Dreamforce and TDX, and it sounds like such a cool thing. And so, obviously we don't need to get into the app, but it's an agent that helps you schedule. I would love to know, because you mentioned developer. And that's the cool thing is I love that each of you had different roles in this team. And yes, some were overlapping, but because Melissa did call you out, she's like, Melissa, it sounds like I don't know who I'm talking about. Melissa Hansen: I know we didn't use last names- Mike: Melissa called Melissa the developer, like what? Melissa Hill Dees specifically was like, "Are you going to talk to Melissa Hansen?" I was like, "Yes." She goes, "Well, you got to talk to her about the developer perspective." And so, I want to start there. From your developer's perspective, what was the most technically challenging or exciting part of the agent that you built? Melissa Hansen: Well, it was the first time I really got hands-on building an agent outside of things like trailheads or quick little workshops. Which was a big draw for me because of our clients, we don't have anybody who's actively using it yet. But we want to be a little bit ahead of them and able to guide and lead when the time comes. So, I was super interested in that part. And I much more motivated when I have a real use case. I wander off if things are too theoretical or sort of like, oh, just learn it for the sake of learning it. I really need something I'm trying to get done. And I loved this use case because we have a similar one for RAD Women about matching up all of our schedules for our coaches, and our learners and our Zoom rooms. So, I could see on the other side of this some really cool applications. I think the most challenging thing conceptually is getting used to non-deterministic results. Mike: Tell me. So, before you get into that, because that's awesome. Please tell me what non-deterministic results mean. Melissa Hansen: Yes, definitely. So, typically when you're writing code or configuring a flow, a lot of times you have inputs and you have outputs, and you have the automation in the middle. And so, if I am taking in a set of inputs, let's say a few contacts, and maybe some opportunities, and I have some logic in the middle, and then I want something to come out the other end, maybe some contact roles, or who knows? And if I've configured everything, and I give it a set of data and I get a result, I expect that if I give it that same set of data again, I will get the same result every time. I could run it a hundred times, I'll always get the same result. Whereas with these agents and large language models, it's not giving you the same response every time. It's trying to come up with the right... if you could see me, right in quotes, the "right" answer for you, but that answer might change, ordering might change, the way it presents, it might change. And that is a very different paradigm than what I'm used to. Mike: Yeah, I think one of the things early on when we were talking Agentforce with customers and admins was it's not a bot. You're not plugging in if A then C, if B then D. You build upon it as opposed to having exactly follow the same path. So, now I get what you mean. Melissa Hansen: And learning how to give it instructions and natural language. When you're building out these topics, I'm starting to tell it things like, your job is to match these speakers with these time slots. And then you'd start to fill things in of you have to pay attention to the dates of the conference, and leave an hour for lunch, and make sure there's a passing period and just the series of instructions. And it almost feels weird to just be like, I'm just going to put it in a sentence. That's no syntax. Okay. Mike: Because math class, when you got to the story problems never felt like math class. Melissa Hansen: Well, maybe to me it did. Mike: I know. Math class always felt like math class to me. Don't kid me. So, I would like to know in the hackathon, I mean it's a finite time. And part of that is just you can't run a hackathon forever because you could run out of people and there's only so much that we want to see built. I'd love to know in that time, how did you prioritize what to do, what to configure, what to simplify, what to include, what to exclude. Melissa Hansen: Yeah. I mean, I think the goal that I have personally and I think that we shared as a team is we wanted to get to something at the end that was... we knew it wouldn't be perfect in a final product, but something that was really, really working. And it's fine if it's messy. It's fine if we have things we want to go and fix later, but we wanted something that was working. We obviously wanted to learn the tool set and we wanted to work together. So, those were the defining goals that told us where we wanted to go. We had discussed what our use cases were and we had a loose data model in mind, and then we divided and conquered. We had Michelle and Melissa Hill Dees were working on loading data from their respective conferences. And Marisa was participating in that so that they could be getting the data model and the data loaded together. Well, I was working a little bit with Melissa on actually building the agent. What does this thing even look like? The time crunch is real. One of our first questions was like, okay, how do we get the data once we've got it in the org accessible to this agent so that we can ask it to do all this stuff? And I think I started to build a flow. I don't build nearly as many flows as I write Apex. Mike: I mean, that's what I think every time I go to build a flow, oh, I feel like I've not built a flow in, I don't know, 16 minutes now. Melissa Hansen: It's different. So, I tried for a little bit and then I was like, given the time crunch, you go to the tools you already know and that you're fastest with. So, at a certain point I was like, I think what's going to work best is if I just build some Apex methods that pull the data query for the data, filter down to what we want, and then conserve that up to our agent. And one of the things I'm curious about as, because we're going to continue to develop this thing and hopefully get it to the point where it's a useful product for lots of conference organizers. Mike: Oh, that would be cool. Melissa Hansen: Yeah, I'm super excited. So, we have a little bit of a roadmap here, but I've got a couple of parts of it that I'm most interested in or that I have the most to do. And one is how much of the work I did was unnecessary, because you go to your comfort zone. I was like, let me write Apex that does this, gets this data, feeds it back. I was like, did I even need that? Can I configure the agent to get the data on its own? Or can I do it in a more lightweight way so that it's more flexible? Because I definitely went in with my own biases and tool set, and as I was building the agent, I was like, okay, I would think about this differently next time. Mike: Well, that leads me to the one question I was thinking about, which is... and I always do this with everything I build. There's always one part of it that I'm still thinking on, that I'm still like, if I had time, I would do X. One part of that are you still thinking about? Melissa Hansen: I'm thinking about the user interaction piece. So, our final product was a conversation that you were having within that sort of agent panel. And you say, "Okay, figure the schedule out for me." And it would output a table, but right in the chat that would show you who's scheduled for which room. And you don't have enough space really in that chat window. You could ask it to make modifications, but it's not always clear what's happening. So, it's just not the right visual paradigm. And so, the thing that I'm thinking about is getting it into a flow, into a screen flow so that the user- Mike: [inaudible 00:15:55]. Melissa Hansen: Oh, sorry. Mike: No, I was just thinking this through. Melissa Hansen: Yeah. So, that the user could launch their screen flow, maybe answer a couple of questions up front, and then we invoke the agent to do the really cool automated scheduling template for us, feed it back to the flow, and then the user has a table that they can actually work with and make modifications to make adjustments here and there. I'd really be able to see the whole thing in a way that makes sense before they sort of agree and commit, and then save that scheduling. Mike: Yeah, I think one thing for us to consider is you go and listen to this podcast when I was talking to Marissa of five years from now or 10 years from now, we're going to say, "Oh, wow. So, that's like back when Agentforce, they just had a prompt window." Back when we talk about Salesforce. Do you remember when the interface was WYSIWYG, and we could finally drag and drop fields onto a page and see them? Melissa Hansen: Oh, yeah. Mike: [inaudible 00:17:00] years ago. Melissa Hansen: It has changed so much. Yeah. I was at a presentation recently and somebody had a screenshot of not just classic but classic from a long time ago. Mike: With tabs. Melissa Hansen: Yes. And you're just like, "Oh, yeah, that used to be my every day." Mike: Yeah, yeah. Yep. And that used to be new. Melissa Hansen: Yes, it was [inaudible 00:17:23] new. Mike: Wow, that's the future. I was going to joke, you mentioned your gateway to becoming a developer was learning how to change printer ink, perhaps don't do that or do. I think it's interesting, I have a friend. I asked him, "How did you get into..." he was a consultant and he's now a CIO for a company. I said, "How'd you get into all this?" He goes, "Well, when my company got Salesforce, I was really good at Facebook." And I think even another 10 years from now, it's going to sound really interesting for a bunch of people when they ask us, "How did you get into Salesforce?" I was good at Facebook. I knew how to change the printer ink. Melissa Hansen: How are these things related? Mike: Help me out. But I do think, so I came from a non-technical background. I came from a sales background. I don't want to say a lot of admins, but a fair share of admins who really embrace the non-technical side of Salesforce that use the standard platform tools, understand it at its base level and look at things differently than perhaps a would who's been trained in code or looks at the platform first. I'd love to know, what's one thing you wish admins asked when working with developers? Melissa Hansen: We'll see if this answers your question. I think the conversation, especially since flow has become so robust, so the conversation between admins and developers is often, not exclusively, but a lot of times about what is the best place for this automation to live? Because there's way more things now that really could go either way. You could do it in a flow, you could do it in Apex. And I think there's sometimes a bias on the admin side to if you can build it in flow, build it in flow. And I have definitely seen some Flows that are a little bit scary. And not scary because the person who built them didn't know what they were doing, or did it poorly or anything like that. It's just the sheer complexity and management of a flow to do something that in some cases would be very straightforward if done in code. And so, I think especially in an organization that has code already, that has the ability to support programmatic automation, having good...
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Transforming Conference Scheduling with Agentforce
05/01/2025
Transforming Conference Scheduling with Agentforce
Today on the Salesforce Admins Podcast, we talk to Marisa Hambleton, Chief Delivery Officer and Founder of MH2X, and a member of the Salesforce MVP Hall of Fame. Join us as we chat about her experience in the TDX Agentforce Hackathon as a member of team MH4 and why clean data is essential for AI. You should for the full episode, but here are a few takeaways from our conversation with Marisa Hambleton. The intense Tetris of conference scheduling Marisa is a co-leader of the Phoenix Developer Group and the lead organizer for Cactusforce, a community conference for Salesforce Developers and Architects. In other words, she knows how much work goes into scheduling speaker tracks and getting everything organized. Juggling speaker availability and placing them in the correct conference rooms without double-booking anyone takes up hours of time behind the scenes. “It’s an intense game of Tetris,” Marisa says, “and that’s a gross understatement.” So she was thrilled when Melissa Hill Dees asked her to join team MH4 and build a conference scheduling agent for the TDX Agentforce Hackathon. Why data hygiene is foundational for Agentforce With only 16 hours to build a working agent, the team had to split up responsibilities so they could hit the ground running. Marisa’s focus was on the data, which they brought in from Cactusforce and Midwest Dreamin’. Marisa’s biggest takeaway from her first time building an agent is that data quality is foundational for any work you do with AI. That needs to be the starting point. Even though they were working with a relatively small data set, they had a lot of cleanup work to do if they wanted their agent to work right. How to get your org ready for advancements in AI If you’re looking to implement Agentforce in your org, Marisa recommends starting with the Salesforce Well-Architected Framework. We’re only scratching the surface of what will be possible with AI, but you need to do everything you can right now to make your data easy to work with. There’s a lot more great stuff from Marisa Hambleton about data hygiene and what’s next for Agentforce, so be sure to listen to the full episode. And don’t forget to subscribe to the Salesforce Admins Podcast so you can catch us every Thursday. Podcast swag Learn more Salesforce Admins Podcast Episode: Trailhead: Admin Trailblazers Group Social Full show transcript Mike Gerholdt: Welcome to the Salesforce Admin's podcast. Today, we're chatting with Marisa Hambleton, Chief Delivery Officer at MH2X, and a longtime leader in the Salesforce ecosystem. Now, this is part two of the MH to the Power of Four episodes where we talked to the team that participated in the TDX Hackathon about the agent that they built. Boy, I got to tell you, if you ever organized a community conference or just wrestled with a gnarly spreadsheet, Marisa's insights into scheduling and automation using Agentforce technology we're really going to hit home. I love that she's going to walk us through how she and the Hackathon team built the agent from her perspective and what she did. Plus, she shares why clean data and a well-architected mindset are must haves for any admin looking to build for the future. Make sure to follow the podcast so you don't miss out on more great conversations like this one. With that, let's get Marisa on the podcast. Marisa, welcome to the podcast. Marisa Hambleton: I'm glad to be here. Mike Gerholdt: You are the second MH of the MH, I believe it's MH quad, right? Isn't that what Melissa Hill Dees told me? It is MH to the Power of Four. Marisa Hambleton: MH to the Power of Four. Mike Gerholdt: Power of Four. Marisa Hambleton: Yes, or MH four. You can just read it MH Four, but MH to the Power of Four, to the Fourth ... Mike Gerholdt: I know, but I like the Power of Four. It sounds a little more strong. Marisa Hambleton: Yes. Mike Gerholdt: We talked with Melissa Hill Dees on the last episode about the TDX Hackathon and the agent that you built, but just per chance, if somebody didn't listen to that episode, can you tell us a little bit about, well, first, who you are and what you do, and then a brief overview of that project that you built at the Hackathon. Marisa Hambleton: Sure. Marisa Hambleton, I am the Chief Delivery Officer of MH2X. That is my consulting firm. I've been in the ecosystem over 15 years. I'm a Salesforce MVP Hall of Fame, and I am also the Phoenix developer, one of the leaders. I am the lead organizer of Cactus Force, a community conference for Salesforce developers and architects. My role in Cactus force is one of the things that led me and Melissa to connect around this agent that we built for the Hackathon. Mike Gerholdt: Yeah, so tell me a little bit about that agent. Marisa Hambleton: Yes, so one of the difficulties in organizing a conference is scheduling, and most of our conferences we have different volunteers and we're part of a team of organizers who come together to put these conferences on for the community, the trailblazer community. Once we get all our submissions, we go through our speaker selection, we've got all these speakers, and we have all of the space, the conference space, and we've got to put the two together. It's calling it a intense game of Tetris would be a gross understatement because there's always somebody that maybe if they're flying in from across the country or if they have some other commitment, or for whatever reason, they cannot go into the slot that you put them in. We plan out our agendas and the program. It is very time-consuming. I can't remember exactly the number we came up with, but we had written out on our submission at the Hackathon how many hours, because we all got together as organizers of conferences and ask, okay, us individually, the time we spend on the scheduling is quite extensive and we hadn't even really accounted for then our co-organizers, who then also spend time and we go through as a team for each of the conferences, how much time we spend on scheduling. Mike Gerholdt: Yeah, no, I hear you, schedule. Oh, man. The intense game of Tetris because you think you have everything put together and then a speaker comes back and says, "Oh, by the way, I'm flying in on such and such date," and you're like, "Ah, I just had everything figured out." Marisa Hambleton: Yes, yes. You have room size limitations or all of a sudden you're coming into the event and you need a bigger room or just all the different things of scheduling a session. We thought that this was a fantastic idea for the agent. The other, my partners in this effort, this Hackathon, Melissa Hanson, she's one of the RAD Women founders, and the scheduling that she does for RAD Women is at a whole other level because we are Michelle Hanson, Melissa Hill Dees and myself. We're scheduling speakers and rooms. Melissa Hanson is scheduling coaches with the cohort members and time zones and time slots across many weeks. That's a whole other, it's just highly complex. Our solution, our agent that we wanted to build really was able to handle all, at least at a minimum, let's try to get one set in because that is very time-consuming for the RAD Women team. That was how we came up with the idea. Melissa Hill Dees has a wonderful heart for nonprofits and the community and helping organizations, and we all agreed that this was a well-worth effort to spend our Hackathon time on. Mike Gerholdt: No, I can. Tell me about that process of creating all of the things that you needed to get done to build that agent. I'd love to know, was there any happy accidents you'd repeat again? Marisa Hambleton: Gosh, I can't think of happy accidents. There was this fast and furious effort on all our parts. There was little things that I feel like they were very Hackathon specific. The org setup, right, where everybody had a job. Melissa Hansen was our Apex Rock star. Melissa Hill Dees, the visionary. She built the agent before and then Michelle Hansen and I were primarily the data part of it. There were some of the org settings that we were like, "Oh, wait a minute. We're trying to use this object and it's not turned on in the org." I had gone in and was doing some of the initial configuration. I spun up the org and was just doing that initial setup, adding the rest of the team as users and making sure everybody had all the correct permissions, doing some of the admin admin things for the project. We'd be chugging along, getting things taken care of and all of a sudden, you hit a roadblock or Melissa's like, "Oh my gosh, I'm getting this error." Okay, let's all get it, jump in and troubleshoot. I feel like I didn't have time to really think of, I guess the reflection for me was more of the experience and not the technical part. I feel like the technical part, especially with something like Agentforce is, it's still new and I'm very much in the exploring like, oh, what else can it do, versus like, oh, okay, I'll know better not to do this next time. I was more on the support side. I would ask Melissa Hansen those questions because she definitely had things that she's like, "Okay, now I know." Mike Gerholdt: You talk about the experience. I'd love to know, what did you learn about agent design based on that Hackathon experience? Marisa Hambleton: The data modeling, the data and the data modeling really are, you have to have that first. That has to be foundational. One of the things that comes to mind is the well-architected, the Salesforce well-architected. Cactus Force is very much, we work really hard as an organization. Our organizers work really hard to always be at the forefront of what Salesforce is doing so that we can prepare content to share with our attendees and with a Salesforce well-architected, that's really become foundational to our conference, but those principles for Agentforce, for this Hackathon and really having that mindset of an architect of like, "Okay, you're starting from the ground up and you're building that theoretically you're modeling out what do we want the data to do? What kind of results are we looking for," before we ever start building anything. That would be the thing that played a biggest part of the design for me outside of the mechanics of it. Mike Gerholdt: Yeah, no, it's good. You mentioned you were in the admin role on this team and support. Let's talk about just giving Salesforce admins some general wisdom and your thoughts on innovation. What do you see as an admin best practice that you think gets overlooked but has a really big impact on an organization? Marisa Hambleton: I would stick with data. I think that data really having, again, thinking in a well-architected mindset, but as an admin, really thinking about your data. Before we started recording, we were chatting about Michelle Hansen and I being organizers with her, with Midwest Dreamin and myself with Cactus Force. We needed a data set to work through this project and make sure that we had some, we could make up fake data, but we decided we're going to go and use the real data because it's already public, it's our speakers and our sessions and we did a lot of data work. It is looking through our data and really asking ourselves, "How clean is this data? How reliable is this data?" It really forced us to see something that we as organizers probably wouldn't have looked at just a regular scenario, but building an agent that relies on this data, well, we have to make sure that that data is, it's clean, it's correct. Even though, again, we were working with a very small data set, which was our speakers and sessions and rooms that are available for the conferences and we did. We made up some fake rooms to mirror that, okay, your conference and my conference, we have different spaces. Mike Gerholdt: Sure. Sure. Marisa Hambleton: It did. It came down to the quality of the data that we were feeding it that the agent could then work with and give us back something that was usable of, here's our space, here's our list of speakers, and feed it all that information. I think as an admin, I think an admin really has the ability to be at the forefront of that conversation in the business. Mike Gerholdt: Yeah, absolutely. I mean, a lot of it, people get hung up on what the tool can do, but you forget data is what powers everything, all of the responses and how good those responses are. You kicked off, when we started the podcast, you talked about the years that you've been in the ecosystem and how you're in consulting. I would love for you to give admin some advice on how you help balance innovation with maintainability when you're building on the Salesforce platform. Marisa Hambleton: I love that question. I am a big look to the far future person. Mike Gerholdt: Okay. Marisa Hambleton: I always think, is this something, if my team is working on a solution, is this solution going to be part of this organization for the next 10 years, 15, 20 years? I think really far out there to challenge. It's fun to be innovative and it's fun to use all the new, coolest, latest technology, all the newest features, but what is it going to look like in 10 years? Is it still going to look the same? Is it still going to be needed? Is the company still going to be around? I think it challenges me. It challenges my team to really think ahead that far so that you're not just looking at an immediate, oh, I need this field. It's like, okay, why? I think that is typical, I think, with admins, especially their experience they've been in the ecosystem is to question and maybe put a BA hat on and question that and then be innovative within that vision. I think with Agentforce, it is revolutionary and I believe that it will revolutionize a lot of business. I believe Salesforce believes that as well, but it's also allowing people to do more of the work that matters. Back to our community solution for scheduling, as organizers, these are passion projects. We're volunteers. If we used to spend 10 to 20 hours on scheduling and now we can spend 10 minutes on it, it'll give us more time to spend on our conference, on more valuable activities, giving our sponsors more attention, giving our attendees more attention, and just being able to be present with the people that are there and letting the agent take care of the busy work that we would prefer not to do. I think that that also comes back to the innovation and for myself, I guess a principle of innovation is create a solution that's again, not only innovative, but lasts a long time and is maintainable and flexible and well-architected, using those buzzwords. Mike Gerholdt: No, I mean, that's exactly the whole ... I love what you said, think about the solution being there for the next five or 10 or even 15 years out. I think we've seen in tech a lot of features and innovations come and go. I don't know that what we're seeing with AI is a short-lived thing. I really think we're on the early days of it and it's only going to continue to grow, mostly because it's only got everywhere to go in terms of what it can use and how it can help us. I would love for you, thinking big picture, can you give an elevator pitch that you would provide to a business leader on why every admin needs to understand Agentforce? Marisa Hambleton: Build for the future. Yeah. Building for the future. Mike Gerholdt: Yeah. Marisa Hambleton: I know. Mike Gerholdt: Your elevators are really fast, by the way. Marisa Hambleton: Yes. Mike Gerholdt: Built for future, and we're there already. Marisa Hambleton: Build for the ... Yes. Build for the future. Mike Gerholdt: Holy cow. We don't have to worry about Keanu Reeves coming to save you or anything. Nope, we're done. Marisa Hambleton: Yes. Well, I love tech. I always have loved tech, and I think that working in technology is always a forward-looking, always looking to the future. A lot of change and AI, Agentforce, that's part of it. Sometimes it is scary. Skynet, is it possible? Okay, maybe because anything's possible. Likely, I don't know. Again, coming back to the data conversation, if you don't have the data for something and there's still a lot of humans involved. I think people forget that there's still a lot of ... I mean, it took four of us, four humans to build the solution. There's still a lot of humans involved. It's a helper. It's a helper. It's like a workmate, a little digital workmate. Yes, build for the future. Mike Gerholdt: I like it Marisa Hambleton: As a company, if I was in front of my customer, I'm like, "Build for the future." Mike Gerholdt: One of the things that I asked Melissa Hill Dees about, and I stumbled upon the question, and I think now, I have to ask all of you. If you could build an agent to help every admin do one thing, just one thing better, what would it be? Marisa Hambleton: Oh, gosh. Well, I'm going to keep coming back to the data thing. Mike Gerholdt: Okay. Marisa Hambleton: I was having a data hygiene conversation earlier today, and I feel like users in any system, but in Salesforce, you want your sales forecast to be correct. You've got to have that data and that hygiene, so a little agent that's always running in the background, that goes the step beyond your validation rules and any other automation that you might have running. Let's say you have a very large organization and you have people that are just doing a lot of different things. I think that data hygiene would really go a long way. Mike Gerholdt: Yeah. I'm thinking of, did you ever watch The Jetsons as a child growing up? Marisa Hambleton: I did. I did. Mike Gerholdt: Remember Rosey, the maid that would go around. I'm envisioning every org needs a little Rosey. Marisa Hambleton: Yes, yes. Mike Gerholdt: It's got to make those little sounds. Remember, she would just go around and dust. By the way, it was crazy. I don't even know what year it was, like 2450 or something, but apparently, robots still use feather dusters. Marisa Hambleton: Yes, yes. Yeah. I think that's probably more general. I would say the next thing is building the flow with voice commands and just talking through. This is, again, I'm thinking far into the future. Mike Gerholdt: That's okay. We're in the future. Marisa Hambleton: Yeah. It's like my plane and I know there's some AIs that can, it's like mid-journey. You're giving it this. You're like, I have this. I'm looking at data from the last 10 years and I need to build an automation that pulls in quarter by quarter the delta of some of my projections or something big and just talking through the use cases and the scenarios, and here's what I want to automate. Then, okay, here's your automation. Here's the flow. You wanted to write it in flow, and here's the apex. Mike Gerholdt: I like that. I think that would be ... I've often thought of if I could just click on a record and write a path that I need it to go, that would be really cool. We talk about that now, it's 2025, and who knows? Somebody's going to resurrect an old recording of this podcast maybe in five or 10 years and be like, "Wow, that was the future for them." Marisa Hambleton: Yes. Mike Gerholdt: Yes. It's going to be like us talking about pencil sharpeners. Marisa Hambleton: Oh my gosh. I still have an old manual pencil sharpener in my garage that I've had forever. Mike Gerholdt: I mean, they were commonplace in my school. Marisa Hambleton: Yes. Now, I don't have as many pencils that need sharpening anymore. Mike Gerholdt: I was going to say, I couldn't name a pencil in my house right now. Let's end on a fun...
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