The Church Revitalization Podcast
Each week, The Malphurs Group team tackles important, actionable topics to help your church succeed in revitalization and leadership. We want to equip your church break through barriers and maximize your impact.
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The Top 5 Church Constitution & Bylaw Problems
07/02/2025
The Top 5 Church Constitution & Bylaw Problems
Many churches are stuck with outdated or overly complex bylaws that limit their effectiveness and create unnecessary conflict. In this episode, we unpack the top five issues with church constitutions and bylaws—and how your church can fix them. Scott Ball and A.J. Mathieu of The Malphurs Group bring practical insights from years of helping churches navigate governance and leadership challenges. If you’re new to the podcast, we help churches get healthy and grow through strategic planning and leadership development. In this episode, we cover: → [00:02:34] Why relying on bylaws instead of policies leads to dysfunction → [00:07:17] How complexity makes compliance nearly impossible → [00:11:26] What happens when bylaws are designed for the wrong church size → [00:14:03] The risks of outdated or unbiblical governance structures → [00:20:54] How vague or conflicting authority erodes trust and accountability Resources & Links: → 🧰 – Start your free 7-day trial and access our course on building a biblical board, plus sample policy manuals → 📘 Read the full article: → 👥 Connect with us on and → 🌐 Learn more about our work:
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When Is the Best Time for Volunteer Recruitment?
06/25/2025
When Is the Best Time for Volunteer Recruitment?
Looking to level up volunteer engagement in your church? In this episode of The Church Revitalization Podcast, we break down the best times and strategies for recruiting volunteers, drawing from current trends and real-world ministry experience. Whether you’re a seasoned leader or new to church revitalization, these insights will help you build a strong, servant-hearted volunteer team. Hosts Scott Ball and A.J. Mathieu—church consultants and revitalization experts—unpack practical principles and share firsthand stories to help you effectively connect people to their calling in your church community. In this episode, you’ll learn: The top 5 moments to recruit volunteers (and which one you’re probably missing) Why getting people serving early matters for church “stickiness” How to leverage membership classes and spiritual gifts for team-building The strengths and pitfalls of ministry fairs and seasonal “pushes” Why recruiting is everyone’s job, not just the staff’s 🔗 Resources & Links: Try the Healthy Churches Toolkit free: Free access for international listeners: Read the full episode article: Connect with us on social & discover more revitalization resources at . Ready to transform your volunteer culture? Hit play and let’s get started!
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Three MYTHS About Spiritual Gifts
06/18/2025
Three MYTHS About Spiritual Gifts
Myth-busting Spiritual Gifts! In this episode of the Church Revitalization Podcast, Scott Ball and AJ Mathieu tackle three of the most widespread misconceptions about spiritual gifts. They dig into where common beliefs miss the mark, how spiritual gifts assessments really work, and why understanding gifting is so important for engaging church members in meaningful ministry. Your hosts, Scott Ball and AJ Mathieu, are church health experts with The Malphurs Group. Every week, they take practical, actionable topics and break them down into bite-sized episodes to help your church thrive. Whether you're a lead pastor, volunteer, or just passionate about church revitalization, this show is for you! Here’s what you’ll learn in today’s episode: (02:20) Why spiritual gifts assessments are helpful but not authoritative (07:44) The Spider-Man analogy: You have to try out your gifts to know them! (12:25) Are Paul’s lists in the epistles exhaustive? What’s really being communicated? (18:07) Why spiritual gifts (and assessments) still matter in every church (20:32) Practical steps to help your congregation discover and use their gifts Links & Resources: Try the Healthy Churches Toolkit free for 7 days: Read the full episode article and recap: Connect with The Malphurs Group on social: | Subscribe so you never miss an episode, and let us know how you’re helping your church thrive!
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Why Temperament Matters in Church Volunteer Roles
06/11/2025
Why Temperament Matters in Church Volunteer Roles
Unlock the secret to effective volunteer placement in your church! In this episode, we dive deep into why getting the right person in the right role—right now—matters, with a special focus on temperament and its impact on ministry effectiveness. Whether you're a seasoned leader or just starting out, you'll discover actionable steps for aligning volunteer strengths with real church needs. Join hosts A.J. Mathieu and Scott Ball from the Church Revitalization Podcast, brought to you by the Malphurs Group team. With years of hands-on experience in church leadership and revitalization, A.J. and Scott bring clarity, energy, and practical wisdom each week to help church leaders thrive. What’s Inside This Episode: Understanding the difference between temperament and personality—and why it matters [03:30] Quick overview of the DISC assessment and how it fits church volunteer roles [11:12] Signs of volunteer misalignment and practical solutions for burnout [18:45] How to use the new Divine Design Discovery Tool for customized volunteer recruitment [4:27][23:17] Building leadership pipelines and aligning teams for greater health [22:14] Links & Resources: Try the Healthy Churches Toolkit free for 7 days: Deep dive article & show notes: Connect with us on social media for more weekly insights Discover how understanding temperament can energize your volunteers and transform your church—listen now and start building your healthiest team yet!
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Why Unhealthy Churches Sometimes Grow
06/04/2025
Why Unhealthy Churches Sometimes Grow
Why do some unhealthy churches seem to be growing rapidly? In this episode, we peel back the layers behind fast-growing churches and explore whether all that glitters is truly gold. Join us as we discuss the hidden factors that can fuel church growth and how to discern authentic health from surface-level success. Your hosts are Scott Ball and A.J. Mathieu from The Malphurs Group. Each week, we bring practical insights and real-world advice to help pastors and leaders revitalize their churches and lead with confidence. Whether you're a first-time listener or a longtime subscriber, we’re here to help your church thrive. In this episode, we cover: - The dangers and appeal of charismatic leadership [06:01] - How consumer-oriented programs can spark attendance without real transformation [10:03] - The impact of location and demographics on church growth [15:29] - The role of transfer growth and what it really means for church health [20:13] - Practical steps to focus on healthy discipleship and mission [22:50] Links & Resources: - The Healthy Churches Toolkit: - Full episode article & resources: - Connect with us: - More revitalization tools and leadership tips: Looking to build a thriving, healthy church? Explore the Healthy Churches Toolkit and other resources linked above!
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Vision That Sticks
05/28/2025
Vision That Sticks
Is your church’s vision stalled or ineffective? In this episode, we break down actionable steps to create and communicate a compelling vision that drives real growth and engagement within your congregation. Discover how clarity and strategy can move your church forward, whether you’re starting from scratch or refreshing your current direction. Join hosts Scott Ball and A.J. Mathieu from the Malphurs Group, whose expertise in church revitalization empowers ministries worldwide. Their passion: helping churches thrive with practical insights, real data, and biblically-rooted strategies. What you'll hear in this episode: Why vision clarity directly boosts church growth (1:20) The first step: a “discernment” phase combining data and prayer (3:58) Crafting a vision draft that inspires buy-in (5:24) Cascading vision from the pulpit to every ministry area (11:24) How to measure, track, and celebrate progress—avoiding common pitfalls (17:04) Links & Resources: Discover tools & start your 7-day free trial: Show notes & episode article: More from the Malphurs Group: Follow us on social for more church leadership tips and updates!
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Streamlining Discipleship Ministries: A Guide to Effective Church Engagement
05/21/2025
Streamlining Discipleship Ministries: A Guide to Effective Church Engagement
Is your church overwhelmed by a maze of groups, classes, and ministries—or struggling to get people engaged at all? On this episode, we break down how to streamline your discipleship ministries for greater clarity and real spiritual growth. Your hosts, Scott Ball and A.J. Mathieu from The Malphurs Group, bring years of hands-on experience revitalizing churches. Each week, they share practical strategies for church leaders to create healthier, more effective ministries—no matter your church’s size or context. In this episode: [00:02:14] Announcement: New “Six Areas of Groups Ministry” Masterclass partnership (and why it matters) [00:07:04] The real issue: Why variety confuses people and stalls engagement [00:08:53] The program vs. process mindset (and how to shift gears) [00:12:25] Building a clear, 3-5 step discipleship pathway—what primary and secondary ministries are (and aren’t) [00:26:31] Practical steps to combine, align, or sunset ministries for maximum impact Episode Links: Try the Healthy Churches Toolkit for free: Read the full article: Connect with us on social: | Take your next step toward a healthier church today!
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How to Build a Thriving Small Groups Ministry + Build Groups Partnership (w/ Adam Erlichman)
05/14/2025
How to Build a Thriving Small Groups Ministry + Build Groups Partnership (w/ Adam Erlichman)
In this episode, we dive into what it takes to develop a healthy, growing small groups ministry that actually connects people and fosters transformation. Whether your church uses Sunday School, home groups, or a hybrid model, this conversation will challenge assumptions and offer practical steps forward. Scott Ball and A.J. Mathieu are joined by Adam Erlichman from Build Groups—a national consultant helping churches grow their groups ministry by 30–50% in under a year. Adam shares powerful stories, best practices, and a major new announcement about exclusive training content now available through the Healthy Churches Toolkit. In this episode: (00:03:08) Why Sunday School vs. Small Groups is a false dichotomy (00:05:36) What most churches get wrong about launching groups (00:10:31) The right metrics to track group health (and the ones to stop using) (00:26:37) What qualitative factors reveal if your groups are thriving (00:30:16) A behind-the-scenes look at the brand new Build Groups Masterclass Links & Resources: 🌐 📖 🎥 🤝
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Five Things Worship Leaders Should STOP Doing
05/07/2025
Five Things Worship Leaders Should STOP Doing
Read the full show notes at: https://malphursgroup.com/289 Welcome to the Church Revitalization Podcast, where we tackle the real issues facing today’s church leaders. In this episode, hosts Scott Ball and A.J. Mathieu dive into the top five things worship leaders should stop doing right now. With candid stories from Scott’s own years as a worship leader—and A.J.’s trademark humor—they break down common pitfalls and offer practical advice for creating a more engaging, distraction-free worship experience. Whether you’re a worship leader, senior pastor, or just passionate about church health, this episode will challenge your perspective, spark some laughs, and help your church worship grow stronger.
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How Big Is Your Church...Actually?
04/30/2025
How Big Is Your Church...Actually?
Do pastors really know who's attending their church every week? In this episode of the Church Revitalization Podcast, A.J. Mathieu and Scott Ball dig into the common myth that "only half the church is present on any given Sunday"—and challenge assumptions about church attendance. They discuss the roots of this belief, why it persists, and, most importantly, why getting the real numbers actually matters for effective ministry and discipleship. Learn practical ways to move beyond gut feelings and start gathering actionable data on church engagement—plus, helpful ideas for tracking attendance without burdening your team or your church members. Whether your church is large or small, knowing who's truly present is key to intentional shepherding, boosting engagement, and making better strategic decisions. Show Links: Start your free trial of the Healthy Churches Toolkit: Global listeners: access the toolkit for free at For more practical insights to help your church thrive, follow the Church Revitalization Podcast and connect with the Malphurs Group team each week!
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Starting Well at Your New Church: A Guide for Pastors
04/23/2025
Starting Well at Your New Church: A Guide for Pastors
Are you stepping into a new pastoral role? Or do you know someone who is? In this episode of the Church Revitalization Podcast, hosts Scott Ball and A.J. Mathieu share practical, actionable advice for pastors beginning their journey at a new church. Drawing from real-world examples and years of experience, they unpack key strategies such as being a learner before a leader, the importance of building relationships over seeking immediate results, and understanding the “why” behind church traditions before making changes. Learn how to communicate hope, find early wins, and set a healthy foundation for your ministry and your new congregation. Whether you’re a senior pastor, youth pastor, or part of church leadership, these insights will help you or someone you know start strong. Full show notes:
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Preparing Your Church for A New Pastor (New Pastor Onboarding Part 1)
04/16/2025
Preparing Your Church for A New Pastor (New Pastor Onboarding Part 1)
Read the full show notes at malphursgroup.com/286 Join hosts Scott Ball and A.J. Mathieu as they dive into a miniseries focused on successfully onboarding a new pastor. In this episode, the discussion revolves around how churches can prepare to welcome a fresh leader effectively. Scott and A.J. share valuable insights on practicing intentional hospitality, embracing clear and gracious communication, and being open to change. Whether you're in the midst of a pastoral transition or simply thinking ahead, this episode is packed with practical advice to set your church up for success. Don't miss out on these essential tips for ensuring a smooth transition and a thriving church community!
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Three Kinds of Churches that FAIL at Revitalization
04/09/2025
Three Kinds of Churches that FAIL at Revitalization
Read this week's article at malphursgroup.com/285 his week, hosts Scott Ball and A.J. Mathieu dive deep into a topic that might make some church leaders uneasy: the reasons why some churches fail in their revitalization process. They outline three key types of churches that struggle – the poorly pastored church, the timid church, and the lazy church. Through their candid discussion, Scott and A.J. provide insights into why these barriers arise and how to overcome them. Whether you're a pastor, church leader, or congregation member, this episode offers valuable takeaways for ensuring your revitalization efforts lead to success, not stagnation.
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Three Pitfalls for GROWING Churches
04/02/2025
Three Pitfalls for GROWING Churches
Growth is often celebrated in church circles, but what if your success is hiding deeper problems? In this episode, Scott Ball and AJ Mathieu tackle the rarely-discussed challenges that growing churches face. They reveal three common pitfalls: becoming complacent with your current success, not understanding why you're actually growing, and expanding too quickly without the leadership foundation to sustain it. Whether your church is experiencing modest or explosive growth, these insights will help you build a healthier, more sustainable ministry that values depth over mere numbers. Because not everything that grows is healthy – and sometimes the most dangerous time for your church is when everything seems to be going well. Read the full show notes at malphursgroup.com/284
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The Five Types of Church Teams: How to Be a HIGH PERFORMANCE Team
03/26/2025
The Five Types of Church Teams: How to Be a HIGH PERFORMANCE Team
Read the show notes at Join hosts Scott Ball and A.J. Mathieu as they delve into the dynamics of teamwork within the church context. In this enlightening episode, Scott and A.J. explore the five types of teams drawn from the insights of the book "The Wisdom of Teams" by Katzenbach and Smith. They discuss how these categories—working group, pseudo team, potential team, real team, and high-performance team—apply to church staff, elder boards, and volunteer groups. Discover practical steps to assess and elevate your team's effectiveness, fostering an environment of mutual accountability and genuine affection. Plus, explore the intrinsic value of moving from simply collaborating to genuinely caring for one another, as inspired by biblical principles. Tune in to elevate your church team's performance and unity today! Remember to check out the Healthy Churches Toolkit for resources that can transform your team's dynamics. Subscribe and transform how your church team works!
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Who is Blocking Your Ministry Vision?
03/19/2025
Who is Blocking Your Ministry Vision?
Read the show notes at: https://malphursgroup.com/282 In this episode of The Church Revitalization Podcast, hosts Scott Ball and A.J. Mathieu delve into the challenges churches face when trying to implement their ministry vision. They explore different archetypes of individuals who may unintentionally or intentionally hinder progress, inspired by Dr. Aubrey Malphurs' work "Developing a Vision for Ministry." Drawing from biblical examples, such as the story of Nehemiah, the hosts discuss how internal and external oppositions manifest and provide strategies for overcoming them with resilience. Whether it's addressing the concerns of vision vampires, navigating the critiques of vision vultures, or working with vision firemen who prefer the status quo, this episode offers insights and actionable advice for church leaders committed to revitalizing their ministries. Plus, discover the importance of remembering God's past, present, and future goodness in navigating challenges. Join us for this thought-provoking conversation rooted in scripture and experience.
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Christianity in America: Is the Decline Over?
03/12/2025
Christianity in America: Is the Decline Over?
Read the full show notes at malphursgroup.com/281 Join hosts Scott Ball and A.J. Mathieu in this episode of The Church Revitalization Podcast as they delve into the latest data on Christianity in America. After decades of decline, there's a glimmer of hope—has the trend finally plateaued? Discover the good news and the challenges still facing the church today. Scott and A.J. explore the factors contributing to the stabilization of Christian identification and the generational shifts influencing these numbers. With 86% of Americans believing in a soul and 83% acknowledging a higher power, the hosts emphasize the significant opportunities for outreach and transformation. Learn why it's crucial for churches to refocus on fundamental practices, discipleship, and outreach to turn the tide. Whether you're a church leader or member, this episode offers actionable insights to help your church thrive and impact your community. Listen now to understand what this means for your church and how you can be a part of reversing the trend. Don't miss this vital conversation on the future of faith in America.
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Church Revitalization Through Outreach: Becoming an Externally Focused Church
03/05/2025
Church Revitalization Through Outreach: Becoming an Externally Focused Church
Discover the essential keys to church revitalization through outreach in this insightful episode with Scott Ball and AJ Mathieu. Learn why most churches have outreach activities but lack effective outreach strategies, and how this disconnect becomes a major barrier to growth. The hosts break down three critical steps that can transform your congregation from inward-focused to externally-oriented: shifting your mindset from "us" to "them," genuinely understanding your community's needs beyond surface-level assumptions, and establishing sustainable outreach practices that become part of your church's DNA. Whether your church is plateaued, declining, or simply looking to maximize its community impact, these actionable insights will help you develop the external focus necessary for true church revitalization. Don't miss this practical guide to fulfilling the Great Commission in your local context. Full show notes at https://malphursgroup.com/280
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How Leadership Dysfunction Holds Back Church Growth
02/26/2025
How Leadership Dysfunction Holds Back Church Growth
Leadership dysfunction can be the silent killer of church growth, yet many leaders don't want to address it. In this episode, we explore four critical dysfunctions that might be holding your church back: poor conflict management, entrenched parties and processes, tolerance of disunifying behavior, and lack of shared vision. Learn how to identify these issues and take practical steps toward creating a healthier leadership culture in your church. Full show notes available at malphursgroup.com/279
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How to Start a Church Revitalization Process
02/19/2025
How to Start a Church Revitalization Process
Is your church plateaued, declining, or in need of a fresh vision for the future? In this episode of the Church Revitalization Podcast, hosts Scott Ball and A.J. Mathieu go back to the basics and break down the essential steps for launching a church revitalization process today. They discuss: ✅ Who revitalization is for (and who it’s not for) ✅ The six critical steps for turning around a struggling church ✅ Why assessment, team formation, and intentional planning are key ✅ How churches can move from decline to growth with practical, actionable strategies Whether your church needs minor optimization or major revitalization, this episode provides a clear roadmap to get started. Plus, learn how The Malphurs Group can come alongside your church with training, coaching, and strategic planning to help you succeed. 🔗 Show Notes & Resources: malphursgroup.com/278 🎧 Subscribe for weekly insights on church health & leadership!
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Five Overlooked Guest Experience Questions
02/12/2025
Five Overlooked Guest Experience Questions
Read the full show notes at malphursgroup.com/277 When a guest visits your church, they've already decided to be brave. Don't let overlooked details create unnecessary anxiety for them! In this episode, we dive into five questions every guest is silently asking - from parking logistics to communion etiquette. Learn practical ways to address these unspoken concerns and create a more welcoming experience for your visitors. Whether you're a growing church looking to improve your guest services or a established congregation wanting to stay sharp, these insights will help you see your facility and processes through fresh eyes. Plus, discover why your bathroom might be more important than you think and how to make your coffee service more strategic. It's time to eliminate those small barriers that can make guests feel like outsiders.
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Top Church Volunteer Recruiting HACKS
02/05/2025
Top Church Volunteer Recruiting HACKS
Full show notes at: https://malphursgroup.com/276 Tired of begging for nursery workers from the pulpit? Transform your church's volunteer recruitment with four game-changing strategies that actually work. Learn how to match people with their calling, simplify recruitment, and build a sustainable volunteer culture—without the guilt trips or burnout. Perfect for pastors and ministry leaders who want to move beyond desperate announcements to create a thriving volunteer ministry. Get practical tools for identifying gifts, streamlining ministries, and keeping volunteers engaged long-term.
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Three Things Elders Should NEVER Do
01/29/2025
Three Things Elders Should NEVER Do
In this episode of the Church Revitalization Podcast, Scott Ball and A.J. Mathieu discuss the essential roles and responsibilities of elders within the church. They outline three critical things that elders should never do: getting too involved in the minutiae of church operations, acting unilaterally without the consensus of the elder board, and neglecting the spiritual care of the congregation. The conversation emphasizes the importance of defined roles, collective authority, and the need for elders to focus on higher-level oversight and spiritual nourishment for the church community. Read the full show notes at: https://malphursgroup.com/275
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Eliminating Ministry Silos
01/22/2025
Eliminating Ministry Silos
Ministry silos can cripple a church's effectiveness, creating competing calendars, duplicated programs, and territorial mindsets. In this episode, Scott Ball and A.J. Mathieu break down the common symptoms of siloed ministries - from calendar conflicts to information hoarding - and provide practical solutions for unifying your church's vision and systems. Learn how to identify whether your church has fallen into the silo trap and discover actionable steps to break down walls between ministries to create a more cohesive, effective church. Show notes: Visit malphursgroup.com/274 for the full article and resources mentioned in this episode.
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4 Things Your Church Consultant Doesn’t Want to Hear You Say
01/15/2025
4 Things Your Church Consultant Doesn’t Want to Hear You Say
In this episode, Scott Ball and A.J. Mathieu dive into “4 Things Your Church Consultant Doesn’t Want to Hear You Say.” They tackle common phrases like “We’re the friendliest church” and “People leave other churches and come here to heal,” unpacking why these statements might not mean what you think. From addressing misconceptions to offering practical advice on leadership and community engagement, this conversation challenges churches to rethink their perspectives. Plus, hear about the free Church Checkup Challenge and how it can help your church assess its health for the year ahead: Tune in for honest insights, biblical wisdom, and actionable steps to strengthen your ministry. Read the show notes at .
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The Great Commission vs The Comfortable Commission: Are We Playing It Too Safe?
01/08/2025
The Great Commission vs The Comfortable Commission: Are We Playing It Too Safe?
Is your church quietly drifting from the Great Commission to what we call "The Comfortable Commission"? In this episode, Scott and A.J. explore how well-intentioned churches can gradually shift from mission-focused to comfort-focused ministry - often without realizing it. You'll discover: - Warning signs your church might be choosing comfort over mission - How "good stewardship" can become an excuse for playing it safe - Practical ways to evaluate your current reality - Steps to break free from comfort-driven ministry Plus, learn about the upcoming Church Check-up Challenge, a free 7-day journey to assess and improve your church's health. Sign up at https://malphursgroup.com/challenge Read the full show notes at https://malphursgroup.com/272
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Top Revitalization MISTAKES of 2024
12/18/2024
Top Revitalization MISTAKES of 2024
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Why the Early Church “Skipped” Worship Services (w/ Dr. Tom Wadsworth)
12/11/2024
Why the Early Church “Skipped” Worship Services (w/ Dr. Tom Wadsworth)
In this enlightening episode of the Church Revitalization Podcast, hosts Scott Ball and AJ Mathieu are joined by Dr. Tom Wadsworth, a renowned expert in New Testament studies. Dr. Wadsworth shares groundbreaking insights into how the early church approached worship and assemblies, challenging many modern assumptions about church gatherings. About Our Guest: Dr. Tom Wadsworth has dedicated over 40 years to studying the New Testament, with advanced degrees in theology and a PhD specializing in early church practices. His research has gained international attention, with his videos garnering over half a million views from 70 countries. Resources Mentioned: Dr. Tom Wadsworth’s Videos: youtube.com/tomwadsworth Dr. Wadsworth’s Website: Visit for additional resources. Healthy Churches Toolkit: Get 7 days of free access to resources that can help your church focus on edification and revitalization at . To read the full show notes go to https://malphursgroup.com/270
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The Five Reasons People May Come to Your Church This Christmas
12/04/2024
The Five Reasons People May Come to Your Church This Christmas
Read the full show notes at https://malphursgroup.com/269 This week, join hosts Scott Ball and A.J. Mathieu as they dive into an essential topic for the Advent season: "5 Reasons Why People May Attend Your Church This Christmas." During the episode, Scott and A.J. provide actionable insights on why individuals might be drawn to church during this festive period, breaking down what they call the "5 D's" – Development, Displacement, Death, Disaster, and Divorce. Whether it's seeking hope, community, or comfort, these reasons are particularly poignant during the Christmas season. Plus, they discuss how your church can meet these needs and make a lasting impact. Don’t miss out on valuable tips to connect with visitors and foster a welcoming, Christ-centered environment this Christmas. GET A 7 DAY FREE TRIAL OF THE HEALTHY CHURCHES TOOLKIT HERE:
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The 3 Types of Church Website Visitors (w/ Derek Maxson)
11/20/2024
The 3 Types of Church Website Visitors (w/ Derek Maxson)
On this episode of the Church Revitalization Podcast, Scott Ball, AJ Mathieu, and special guest Derek Maxson dive into optimizing your church website for three key visitor types: insiders, shoppers, and seekers. Learn practical strategies to make your site more welcoming, improve accessibility, and align with Great Commission principles. Plus, discover Derek’s expert tips for enhancing your church’s digital presence and a special discount for website assessments at Spiffy.church. Read the full show notes: Get 7 Days FREE of the Healthy Churches Toolkit: Get 50% off a Website Evaluation PLUS Free Training: use code PODCAST
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