Clean Sport Collective
The Clean Sport Collective is a community of powerful voices comprised of athletes, brands, events, clubs, fans and the public to support the pursuit of clean sport and athletics through the absence of performance enhancing drugs. With this podcast, we will celebrate clean athletes, educate you on issues in the world of clean sport, and bring hope that we can all believe in the power of fair play across all sports.
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Episode #108: Host Roundtable with Kara, Shanna, and Chris
11/22/2022
Episode #108: Host Roundtable with Kara, Shanna, and Chris
With crazy lives and busy schedules, it's been a minute since we published an episode, but we are excited to release this roundtable on recent current events in the realm of clean sport. Hosts Kara Goucher, Shanna Burnette, and Chris McClung all join to provide life updates and discuss: - Bizarre cheating scandals in chess and fishing - Doping positive for Simona Halep (former tennis #1) - Gold medal upgrade for former guest Lashinda Demus - Recent Kenyan doping busts (including 2021 Boston champ and 3 pacemakers for Kipchoge's sub 2) - News of a previous doping suspension for NYRR's new Chairwoman - Nnenna Lynch Listen in for our reactions to it all and for a few specific changes we would like to see on how doping positives are reported. We hope to be back to you periodically with similar roundtables in the ever-evolving world of doping and clean sport. Note: Here is a link to an update on the Nnenna Lynch and NYRR story, including her statement which was released after this episode was recorded:
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Episode #107: Jenna Fesemyer, Paralympian in Wheelchair Racing
03/29/2022
Episode #107: Jenna Fesemyer, Paralympian in Wheelchair Racing
Jenna Fesemyer was born with a birth defect that would cause doctors to amputate her left leg soon after she entered this world as one of a set of triplets. They told her parents that she would be slow to sit, crawl, and walk even after being fitted with a prosthetic leg before her second birthday. Spurred on to compete with her siblings, she was the first do to everything which might have been perfect foreshadowing for her current career in sport. She now often stands in first place on top of podiums as a competitive wheelchair racer. She is a national champion, a Pan Am Games champion, a World Marathon Major podium finisher, and now a Paralympian in 3 different events - the 1500m, 5000m, and marathon. In this episode with Jenna, she shares her journey along the way from her first wheelchair race as a sophomore in high school to living her dream in the Tokyo Paralympics last summer. Jenna also gives us insight into the clean sport culture in the Paralympic world, including out-of-competition testing protocols, the whereabouts filing system, and recent controversy involving new, carbon-fiber wheelchairs that could permanently change the sport. Jenna is an absolute inspiration. She will be racing the Boston Marathon on April 18th, and we can't wait to cheer her on!
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Episode #106: Dominique Scott, 2-Time Olympian in Track and Field
03/22/2022
Episode #106: Dominique Scott, 2-Time Olympian in Track and Field
Dominique Scott is a 2-Time Olympian, a 5-Time NCAA Champion, a South African champion and record holder, and the owner of two new, smoking-fast personal bests in the half marathon (67:32) and 10K (31:00). Beyond the accolades, her energy and passion for the sport is contagious, and her journey to realize her Olympic dream in 2016 in Rio is absolutely inspirational. Kara and Chris dig into it all with her. We are fortunate that Dominique believes in #cleansport, because she also went nearly 2.5 years without an out-of-competition drug test between the fall of 2019 and early March of this year, which included no out-of-competition testing immediately before competing at both the 5K and 10K at the Tokyo Olympics. That, of course, is not her fault but does highlight the challenges of international drug testing and the window of opportunity for cheating that was created by the COVID-19 pandemic. This conversation also underscores the difficulties of staying motivated as an elite athlete knowing that the playing field is not level. Listen and be a fan. Dominique's story is one to follow closely as she aspires to compete in both the Commonwealth Games and the World Championships this year. Finally on a podcast note, we just surpassed 1 million podcast downloads last week which is a big milestone for us! We wanted to thank you all for listening and supporting this platform. Together, we are making a difference in the name of clean sport!
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Episode #105: Elana Meyers Taylor, 5-Time Olympic Medalist in the Bobsled
03/08/2022
Episode #105: Elana Meyers Taylor, 5-Time Olympic Medalist in the Bobsled
She first tried out for the Olympics in softball but didn't make the team. Then she switched sports, and the rest is a story for the history and record books. Now, she is a 4-time Olympian. She is a 5-time Olympic medalist and 8-time World Championship medalist. She is the most decorated Black Winter Olympian ever. She is the most decorated female bobsled Olympian ever. She is the oldest US woman to win a Winter Olympic medal. She is the only woman to ever win two medals in bobsled at a single Olympic games. She is an advocate for female athletes and athletes of color. She is the mother to two-year-old Nico, and she is an inspiration to us all. She is Elana Meyers Taylor, and we are so excited to welcome her to the show. We talk about her journey from softball to bobsled, from her first trip down the ice in 2007 to her triumphant results in Beijing at the most recent Olympic games. She tells us stories from the sled including her perspective on doping and racism in the sport. Along the way, you see Elana as one of the toughest, most resilient, humble, caring, and inspiring athletes we've had the chance to interview. She doesn't know what's next for her yet, but no matter what we will be cheering for her and following along!
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Episode #104: Host Roundtable with Kara, Shanna, and Chris
03/01/2022
Episode #104: Host Roundtable with Kara, Shanna, and Chris
We are BACK for a new season of Clean Sport Collective Podcast episodes, and we start this season just like we did the last one with a host round table with Kara, Shanna, and Chris. We get personal updates from the crew and then talk about some of the big topics in recent months from the world of #cleansport including the Russian doping scandal in figure skating at the Winter Olympics, the confirmed lifetime ban for Alberto Salazar via SafeSport, a recent 10 year ban for Blessing Okagbare in Track and Field, and why Major League Baseball isn’t currently testing for steroids. Of course, we love to finish on a positive note, and Kara tells us at the end why we should still have hope as fans in the face of these issues. This episode was recorded prior to the Russian invasion of Ukraine, making some of these discussions seem trivial in context. We also want to say that we stand with the people of the Ukraine. Our hearts are broken and go out to them during this time. We denounce the Russian invasion and fully support the moves by governing bodies in sport to ban Russia from international competition. #saveUkraine
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Episode #103: Nathan Martin, Fastest US-Born Black Marathoner
12/20/2021
Episode #103: Nathan Martin, Fastest US-Born Black Marathoner
Nathan Martin is the fastest US-born black man to ever cover 26.2 miles. He ran 2:11:05 at the Marathon Project in 2020 to earn that title with a new personal best. He also finished 3rd American and 8th overall at the recent NYC Marathon, but based on the TV coverage, you would have barely known he was in the race. Fortunately in this interview, we get the play-by-play on his in-race back and forth with Ben True over the final miles. It is a riveting firsthand account, and we are proud to give Nathan the platform he deserves to share it. Nathan, however, is used to not being in the spotlight. He's been diligently working to be a better runner in his home state of Michigan since discovering his talent in middle school. In high school, he focused on and was state finalist in the one mile race before being encouraged to move up in distance by his college (and current coach) Dante Ottolini. In college, he capped his senior year by winning NAIA national titles in the 10K and marathon (yes, marathon!), all in a span of 36 hours. That final college race kickstarted a post-collegiate marathon career that has now included two Olympic Marathon Trials, top finishes at US Marathon Championships, the big PR at the Marathon Project, and now a top 10 result at a World Major. Nathan and his coach believe that making a US team at the World Championships or Olympics is a possibility, even as he splits his time coaching high school level athletes himself. In his own words, we learn where Nathan gets his work ethic and his roll-with-the-punches attitude, along with the values he learned from his coaches and parents along the way. We discover the source of his integrity, his perspective on clean sport, and the lessons he hopes to pass onto the kids he now coaches. Nathan subtly drops truth bombs throughout this episode, and we couldn't be more honored to share his story with you.
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Episode #102: Zach Bitter and Ryan Montgomery on Clean Sport in the Trail/Ultra Community
12/13/2021
Episode #102: Zach Bitter and Ryan Montgomery on Clean Sport in the Trail/Ultra Community
Ryan Montgomery and Zach Bitter are no strangers to doing really hard things over long distances. Zach holds the world records for both the 100-mile distance by time and for distance run over 12 hours at 104.88 miles. Ryan just finished second at the Javelina 100, earning a golden ticket for the Western States 100, and he earned a spot on Team USA for the 24-Hour World Championships with a 154.71-mile performance over 24 hours last December. Together, they join us for our most in-depth conversation to date on the clean sport culture in the trail/ultra world. We start with a story from Ryan on an innocent visit to the doctor that could have inadvertently resulted in him committing a doping violation. From there, we talk about the need for more education and openness on the topic of clean sport in the trail/ultra community. We discuss drug testing in the sport including Ryan and Zach's history with it (or lack thereof). We cover strict liability, IVs, marijuana/THC use in ultras, and the challenges of enforcing clean sport culture in this corner of the competitive running world without a governing body. Finally, we discuss the roles of various stakeholders to build and sustain the clean sport culture in trail/ultras including athletes, events, brands, and fans. We asked Ryan and Zach the hard questions, and just like in big races, they didn't back down. Thank you to both of them for their willingness to dig deep. We also owe a special thanks again to Altra Running for hosting us in their booth at The Running Event, for supporting these two amazing athletes, and for being a brand that cares about clean sport.
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Episode #101: Catching up with Alysia Montaño
12/06/2021
Episode #101: Catching up with Alysia Montaño
"The biggest thing that I just want to stop feeling, that I continue to feel, is the time that I spent in my career being fake." - Alysia Montaño. Alysia has joined us on 2 episodes already so you know her story well. She is a 7-time US Champion. She is an Olympian, and she has two bronze medals from the World Championships that were stolen by dopers and eventually awarded to her many years later. You may not know, however, that she is still in an ongoing battle more than 11 years later to recover $60,000 in prize money that was also stolen from her at those two events. For Alysia, it's not about the money. It's the principle that matters, and she is challenging World Athletics, the IOC, the USOPC, and USADA on this issue to set a new precedent for future athletes who might end up in the same situation. She gives us the play-by-play on that challenge while also catching us up on the latest in her life with 3 kids, her first Spartan obstacle course race, and the important work of her non-profit &Mother. This is a tough conversation at times, but in the end, we do talk about hope and where she goes to find it. Thank you to Alysia for never shying away from the tough issues and for her commitment to leaving the sport better than she found it. Also, special thanks to Alysia's sponsor Altra Running, signer of the Clean Sport Collective brand pledge, for hosting us in their booth for this recording during The Running Event in Austin, TX last week.
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Episode #100: Molly Seidel, Olympic Bronze Medalist in the Marathon
11/22/2021
Episode #100: Molly Seidel, Olympic Bronze Medalist in the Marathon
"You don't quit. You don't look behind you, and you don't cheat." - Molly Seidel, discussing values she learned from her mom. We can't think of a better guest for our 100th episode than Molly Seidel. To the world, she might be the new face of American marathoning, but privately she is the same person who grew up in a small town in Wisconsin, doesn't take herself too seriously, and is the fiercest of competitors once on a start line. From Foot Locker champion to NCAA champion to Olympic Bronze Medalist, the journey has not been a linear one for her. In fact, she almost quit the sport multiple times before finding her love for it again in late 2019. In this episode, we learn about it all. This episode also represents a passing of the torch as Kara discusses Molly breaking her American course record in New York. You get to be a fly on the wall as the two of them fan-girl each other. Come for that, stay for the fun details about Molly's journey including her running heroes in high school, where and when she decided to race the Olympic Trials, the source of her ferocious nature in races, and near the end, the advice she would now give to the younger Molly who once wrote down her dream to earn an Olympic medal. We love Molly for her integrity and for her fun-loving nature. We need more of both in our sport so we know the future of American marathoning is in very good hands.
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Episode #99: Annie Frisbie, 7th Place Finisher at the NYC Marathon
11/15/2021
Episode #99: Annie Frisbie, 7th Place Finisher at the NYC Marathon
Annie Frisbie had a dream day at the NYC Marathon. She finished as the 3rd American and 7th overall in her debut marathon, running two half marathon PRs en route to the finish line in Central Park. Her finishing time gave her the 4th fastest marathon debut ever by an American. As an unsponsored athlete, she ran in a mix of apparel and footwear from different brands, all while taking vacation from her day job as a graphic designer for a healthcare start-up. Though unsponsored, she is not unsupported as she runs with Minnesota Distance Elite in Minneapolis. At 24, Annie Frisbie seems to just be getting started as an elite-level runner. She won a state title in cross country in high school, is an NCAA All-American, and is now getting the opportunity to show her potential and passion for road racing. In this episode, we cover her childhood growing up in River Falls, Wisconsin where her entrepreneurial parents showed her the importance of hard work. We discuss her patient progression in the sport from high school to Iowa State to joining Minnesota Distance Elite. We discuss her love for and early success on the roads and why she chose to move up to the marathon so soon. Then of course, we get the play-by-play on her amazing marathon debut in NYC including how she celebrated afterward. Finally, we talk about her perspective on clean sport including the fact that she's never been tested out of competition as a pro. Annie's perspective on our sport is pure and refreshing, and we can't wait to see where it takes her next!
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Episode #98: Noah Droddy, 9th Fastest US Marathoner of All-Time
11/01/2021
Episode #98: Noah Droddy, 9th Fastest US Marathoner of All-Time
In 2016, Noah Droddy finished dead last in the US 10K Track Trials as an unsponsored athlete who was relatively new to the pro ranks. In 2021, Noah Droddy is now the 9th fastest US marathoner of all-time, and to the surprise of many, is again unsponsored. On the US top 10 list, he's listed with big names like Ryan Hall, Dathan Ritzenhein, and Meb Keflezighi, and yet Noah works full-time at SOS Hydration to make ends meet amidst a professional running world that doesn't always make sense. Sponsored or not, he seems happy, and he's ready to continue chasing his dreams on the road at the NYC Marathon on November 7th. Sponsored or not, Noah is also unabashedly himself and not afraid to tell it like it is. In this episode, he shares all about his journey from underdog runner in high school in Indiana and at Depauw University to one of the very fastest American marathoners of all-time. He speaks truth about the ups and downs in his story and then isn't afraid to name names on the topics of doping and clean sport. (Yes, he went there.) We are big fans of Noah and know you will be too. He tells us that he has a big announcement coming on November 4th, and we hope that means a new sponsor sees what we see too!
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Episode #97: Catching up with Des Linden
10/25/2021
Episode #97: Catching up with Des Linden
"There's value in showing up when you're not at your best and seeing what you can do. Who are you when it's rough?" - Des Linden. You will have to listen until the very end to hear this very introspective life advice from Des. She showed up in Boston two weeks ago when not at her best. She got it done anyway and is now prepping for the NYC Marathon in just under two weeks. In this episode, we catch up with Des on everything happening in her life from February 2020 onward including her 4th place finish at the Marathon Trials, life during the pandemic, Des-tober, the 50K world record, her announcing career, and of course, her prep for getting back to the marathon distance this fall. Along the way, we learn about overcoming failure, when to open "the good stuff," the power of tequila, her future in ultras, and whether or not she has any FOMO for Shalane's Project Eclipse. Plus, we get her clear perspective on the Shelby Houlihan case from this summer and the impact it may or may not have had on how she monitors what goes into her body. It's always great to catch up with Des. She is an inspiration in running and in life, and we can't wait to see what's next for her in NYC and beyond.
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Episode #96: Erin Strout, Writer and Digital Editor for Women's Running
10/12/2021
Episode #96: Erin Strout, Writer and Digital Editor for Women's Running
Good journalism is an important part of promoting a sport, and it’s also an important part of bringing the dark sides into the light. Fortunately, we have good journalists like Erin Strout who help us do both for the sport of running. Erin’s interest in writing began by interviewing her family at the Thanksgiving table which ultimately led to majoring in journalism at Penn State. After that, she did stints covering business in NYC and higher education in DC before melding her passion for running with her career. Since then, she has worked with Running Times, Runner’s World, and now Women’s Running where she is a writer and digital editor. In this episode, we chat with Erin about her parallel journeys as an amateur athlete and a journalist before digging into the role of journalism in the areas of doping and clean sport. She tells us about pushback she received covering the Shelby Houlihan case and gives us her ideas for uncovering the dark sides of the sport if she had unlimited time, money, and resources. Erin is a great writer and storyteller. When she writes we read it, and when she speaks, we listen. We encourage you to do the same.
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Episode #95: Kate Grace, US Champion and Olympian in the 800m
10/04/2021
Episode #95: Kate Grace, US Champion and Olympian in the 800m
We can't think of a better way to finish the summer of Kate Grace than with a podcast with Kate Grace! Yes, she's an Olympian, US Champion, and now multiple-time Diamond League winner, but her career is loaded with ups and downs from injuries to team and sponsor changes and to disappointment on the track. Through it all, she remains the same, balanced human who operates with high integrity and who values family above it all. For those reasons alone, we know you will love getting to know Kate in this episode. In addition, we know you will be interested to learn from Kate about the practical reality of clean sport in her daily life from whereabouts filings and early morning drug tests to avoiding contaminated food or supplements. Plus, she provides her perspective on the Shelby Houlihan case as a former teammate. In the end, she tells about what's next for her as she dreams big for the next Olympic cycle. We have a good feeling that there will be more summers of Kate Grace around the corner, and we can't wait to cheer her on for all of them!
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Episode #94: Catching up with Sara Hall
09/27/2021
Episode #94: Catching up with Sara Hall
We last talked to Sara Hall in February of 2020 for episode #37, just before she had a disappointing DNF at the Olympic Marathon Trials shortly after. Then, the world shut down and her plan to cope by diving straight into a new training cycle fell apart. She responded like a champion by pivoting and adjusting to the rapidly changing circumstances to make the most of it. What followed were the best results of her career including a half marathon PR, 2nd place in the London Marathon, a win at the Marathon Project in the 2nd fastest time ever by an American (2:20:32), and 6th place in the 10,000m at the US Track Trials in Eugene. Of course, it wasn't easy as she faced a host of ups and downs along the way including her own case of COVID-19 earlier this year. We talk to Sara about the details and emotions of it all from dealing with disappointment in Atlanta to the joy and relief of her amazing kick finish in London. Plus, she tells us about how recent doping cases affect her day-to-day life in very real ways. Sara is now prepping to go after Deena Kastor's American record in Chicago on October 10th, but as she shares in the interview, she is far from done regardless of how it goes. Join us in cheering her on as she goes for the record books and beyond!
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Episode #93: Courtney Dauwalter, 2x Champion and Course Record Holder at UTMB
09/20/2021
Episode #93: Courtney Dauwalter, 2x Champion and Course Record Holder at UTMB
Courtney Dauwalter is already one of the greatest ultra runners of all-time, and she's far from finished. She recently won her second Ultra-Trail du Mont-Blanc in course record time. She's won the Western States 100, the Tahoe 200, the Moab 240, and the US edition of Big's Backyard Ultra, finishing with 283.3 miles completed over nearly 57 hours. It seems that she gets better as the races get longer and harder. Did you know that she grew up in Minnesota where she got her start in sport in gymnastics, soccer and floor hockey? Or, that she was a state cross-country skiing champion in high school and went on to compete collegiately as a cross-country ski racer at the University of Denver? And, did you know that she did not finish her first 100 mile race, which stoked her fire to run another one (and another)? Kara and Shanna host this episode to talk with Courtney about it all, including her perspective on clean sport. You will fall in love with her kind, infectious energy and maybe, just maybe, want to add an ultra distance race to your bucket list. Listen at your own risk!
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Episode #92: Host Roundtable on Shelby Houlihan (and more)
09/13/2021
Episode #92: Host Roundtable on Shelby Houlihan (and more)
It was a busy summer for your Clean Sport Collective hosts, but we are excited to be back to you with new content, starting this week with a host roundtable. In this episode, we give you quick updates on the lives of Kara, Shanna, and Chris and then dive right into the deep end to discuss the biggest cases of the summer. We cover the Alberto Salazar SafeSport ban, the Sha'Carri Richardson and Brianna McNeal cases, and of course, our perspectives on the Shelby Houlihan decision. This episode is just us calling it how we see it, and we look forward to the great debate to follow.
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Episode #91: Cory McGee, New Olympian in the 1500m
06/25/2021
Episode #91: Cory McGee, New Olympian in the 1500m
We are excited to present this conversation with new Olympian Cory McGee! She earned a spot in Tokyo with a 2nd place finish in the 1500m at the Olympic Trials earlier this week, and in this episode, she joins us to tell us all about it. Cory has been running at a high level for a very long time. She was a US junior champion in 2011 then went on to become a 10-time All-American at the University of Florida. In the pro ranks, she's been working diligently toward this breakthrough moment for a really long time. In this discussion, she talks about the importance of her move to Team Boss and the lessons she's learned from teammates Emma Coburn, Aisha Praught-Leer, Kate Grace, Dom Scott, and Laura Thweatt. She then takes us through the race from her pre-race expectations and strategy to the glorious final 100m when she willed her body to that 2nd place finish. Cory just loves to run and knowing her integrity and her stance on clean sport makes it so easy to cheer loudly for her both now and in Tokyo later this summer!
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Episode #90: Zola Budd Pieterse, Two-Time World Cross Country Champion
05/10/2021
Episode #90: Zola Budd Pieterse, Two-Time World Cross Country Champion
Zola Budd Pieterse has every reason in the world to hate the sport of track and field, but she doesn't. Instead, she gives back to it in ways that will help today's young stars experience it in a much more positive way than she did. It has not, however, been an easy journey. Zola grew up on a farm in South Africa before suddenly being thrust on the world stage at the age of 17 when she ran a world record time in the 5000m. That time would not be ratified by the IAAF because it did not recognize competitions in her home country due to apartheid policies there. Thus to compete internationally, she was sent to Great Britain to claim UK citizenship since her grandfather was British. This move was met with great controversy as many meet organizers and fans protested her naturalization, making life difficult for Zola upon her arrival. In spite of the less-than-warm welcome, Zola still ran extremely well, claiming the official 5000m world record and earning a spot in the 1984 Olympics in Los Angeles. In the final in LA, she was involved in a collision with Mary Decker Slaney that sent Mary to the ground and left Zola reeling from the boos that then filled the Olympic stadium, directed toward her even though the contact was incidental. Even with this disappointment, Zola went on to claim more European records, win the World Cross Country Championship in back to back years, and make another Olympic team in 1992. In this episode, Zola joins Shanna and Kara to talk about it all including growing up as a running prodigy, how she dealt with the intensity of the negative spotlight often on her, and why she competed barefoot and always clean in the steroid era of the 1980s and EPO era of the early 1990s. Zola then shares how she reclaimed her love for the sport as her own while also coaching the next generation of runners in her current home city of Conway, South Carolina. Zola is an absolute legend in our sport, and we are so honored to share her story.
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Episode #89: Renee Anne Shirley, Clean Sport Truth-Teller
05/03/2021
Episode #89: Renee Anne Shirley, Clean Sport Truth-Teller
What price would you be willing to pay for telling the truth? What if you knew it would cost you your home, your livelihood, your security, and nearly your country? Would you still speak up? Would you still do the right thing? Whether they know it at the time or not, that is the choice often faced by what the world calls "whistleblowers." We call them truth-tellers, and Renee Anne Shirley ("Anne") is one of those truth-telling heroes. In August of 2013, she spoke out via a Sport Illustrated editorial about the lack of testing being done by the Jamaica Anti-Doping Commission (JADCO) in and around the 2012 Olympics in London. That editorial would change her life forever. In this episode, Kara and Chris talk to Anne about her story including her background in sport growing up in Jamaica and the eventual combination of serendipity and strong will that put her in position to build the anti-doping infrastructure in Jamaica. She details the behind-the-scenes political gamesmanship that sits behind the anti-doping apparatus worldwide and how she maneuvered her way into the power structure before eventually exposing its flaws. Anne discusses why the global governance structure needs to be re-built from the ground up while still giving us hope for a better future. In addition, she tells us what we can do as fans to make a difference for clean sport wherever we are. Anne is one of the clearest and most objective speakers on any issue related to clean sport, and we are excited to share her story and her insight.
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Episode #88: Hillary Allen, Sky Runner
04/26/2021
Episode #88: Hillary Allen, Sky Runner
Hillary Allen is used to defying the odds. She did it in graduate school when her running career began, rising from a first-time marathoner in 2012 to the very top of the sky running world in just five short years. She did it again in 2017, surviving a 150-foot fall on the trails which nearly killed her to return to the podium in her sport just over a year later. In this episode, Hillary shares her inspiring story with Kara and Chris. We start with her journey to becoming a runner evolving from a childhood sports-fanatic and tennis player who saw running as punishment to a graduate student simply seeking running as an outlet from her intense coursework. From there, Hillary describes how an unlikely running buddy of hers helped her fall in love with the sport and discover her passion and potential on the trails, which quickly and almost accidentally evolved into an elite-level career. That career would take her to the top of the sport and the world, as she found global success in a niche area of trail running called sky running. Then, everything changed with a traumatic fall from a ridge line in a race in Norway. Hillary gives us a moment-by-moment account of that life-changing step and recounts the painful and challenging recovery process that followed. She tells us how she found the strength to persist in rehab, how she overcame her fears to return racing again, and how her perspective on life is forever changed. Of course, we also get her perspective on the clean sport culture in the trail running world, how the culture might be different in the US vs Europe, and whether or not trail running needs a more organized anti-doping program. We walked away inspired from this conversation with Hillary and know you will too! To read Hillary's story in her own words, check out her new book: .
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Episode #87: Anthony Famiglietti, Two-Time Olympian in the Steeplechase
04/19/2021
Episode #87: Anthony Famiglietti, Two-Time Olympian in the Steeplechase
You might know Anthony Famiglietti (nicknamed “Fam”) as the two-time Olympian in the steeplechase with an aggressive, front-running style on the track. You may not know his other side as the quiet, introverted artist who sees the world a little different than the rest of us, including a unique perspective on the world of clean sport. In this episode with Kara, Shanna, and Chris, we get to meet both sides of him, Anthony and Fam, the artist and the athlete. Anthony grew up on Long Island and was first introduced to the world of sport with a skateboard on his feet, learning on his homemade half pipe to enjoy the journey toward a goal even through failure. He came to running in high school through a few mentors in his life who both died tragically. Running then became an outlet for his grief as well as a pure way to honor those who had believed in him. Not recruited heavily in high school, Anthony had to win the 3200m at the state meet to earn a scholarship to Appalachian State in his final high school race. Anthony tells us how he discovered and fell in love with the steeplechase at Appalachian State and why he had to transfer to Tennessee in order to truly pursue the event. Once at Tennessee, he met the great US distance runner Todd Williams, discovered that you could make a living as a pro runner, and set his sights on beating Todd’s times and making an Olympic team. From there, the conversation turns to doping and clean sport as Anthony asks us the question: “what is doping?” He then shares his own experiences being introduced to the gray areas of cheating from a place you might not expect – a doctor associated with the US Olympic Training Center in Colorado Springs. These experiences have informed his art including his interpretation of the Alberto Salazar case via a piece called “Death of Saladbar,” in which Kara is also depicted for her role as truth teller. Anthony understands the impact of the system but still puts the responsibility for the fight for clean sport on the athlete who he believes should be protecting the sanctity of their pursuit at all costs. We appreciate his perspective and the deep dialogue.
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Episode #86: Nick Willis, Two-Time Olympic Medalist in the 1500m
03/22/2021
Episode #86: Nick Willis, Two-Time Olympic Medalist in the 1500m
Nick Willis might be the fastest "amateur" athlete in the world. He hopes it is fast enough to help him qualify for his 5th Olympic Games in Tokyo this year. In this episode led by Chris and Adam, we find out all about Nick's career, which now spans nearly two decades, from growing up in New Zealand to now joining the corporate world with . Of course, we cover the two Olympic medals in between too! Nick's story is a fascinating one as he showed promise in running at a very early age, running a city record at the age of 7 in the 200m sprint. Even with the early promise, his path to his first Olympic medal in 2008 was far from a linear one. We discuss those twists and turns with Nick and then hear the play by play on his final race in Beijing as he passed 3 runners in the home stretch to earn bronze on the day. That medal would be upgraded to silver just a year later to the surprise of no one as the gold medalist Rashid Ramzi was disqualified for doping. Later Asbel Kiprop, who still officially holds the gold for that race, would be banned for doping as well. In spite of all of that, Nick explains why neither Ramzi or Kiprop could ruin his memory of that experience. On doping, Nick shares his first experience seeing it on the international scene. He talks about how he approached races knowing that certain competitors were definitely cheating and how speaking out against it can come with a price. He even details how drug testing works for an international athlete training outside his home country, as he spent most of his career training in the US. Plus, Nick gives his perspective on the future of clean sport and how he plans to give back to it in his new role with Tracksmith. Nick has said, "Running is empty unless it’s about something more." In his new role as an "amateur" athlete, he is committed to building that something more in the sport, and we can't wait to see what comes next for him!
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Episode #85: Dawn Harper-Nelson, A Follow-Up
03/15/2021
Episode #85: Dawn Harper-Nelson, A Follow-Up
With this episode, we release an important follow-up conversation with Dawn Harper-Nelson. In our preparation for our original interview with Dawn, we missed an important detail that should have been central to that first discussion. After posting episode 84, we learned that Dawn actually served a three-month suspension beginning in December of 2016 for unintentionally ingesting a banned substance. In the fall of 2016, Dawn ended up in the emergency room with high blood pressure. The prescribed medication to get it under control contained the banned diuretic hydrochlorothiazide. Dawn attempted to check the medication, but the name on the bottle included an acronym that didn't match what was in the banned substance database. She documented everything about the incident (including a screenshot of her search) and was able to get all proof to USADA immediately after her adverse test result. That information led to the short, three-month suspension. According to USADA, "Following an investigation into the circumstances of her case, including Harper-Nelson’s medical records, USADA has accepted Harper-Nelson’s explanation that her positive test was caused by a blood pressure medication she was prescribed by a physician to treat hypertension. Harper-Nelson further explained that she made efforts to determine if the medication contained prohibited substances; however, due to using partial search terms, those efforts were unsuccessful." We sincerely apologize to you as listeners and to Dawn for this oversight. We absolutely still believe in Dawn as a clean athlete and are thankful to her for taking additional time to share the story of this situation. It's an important cautionary tale for clean athletes everywhere. If you are clean athlete and have questions about a potential medication, USADA encourages you to reach to their Athlete Express hotline at 1-866-601-2632. Plus, if you haven't listened to episode 84 already, it's a must-listen as Dawn is such an inspiration.
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Episode #84: Dawn Harper-Nelson, 4-Time Medalist in the 100m Hurdles
03/08/2021
Episode #84: Dawn Harper-Nelson, 4-Time Medalist in the 100m Hurdles
You don't want to miss this episode with Dawn Harper-Nelson because we can't think of a better person to showcase on this International Women's Day. Dawn is a fierce competitor and loving mom with an absolutely infectious personality. She's earned 4 global championship medals on the track including a gold, 2 silvers, and a bronze, but her story has impact well beyond the podium. In this episode with Shanna and Chris, Dawn opens up about her journey from growing up in East St. Louis to now raising a daughter of her own in the same area. She talks about the impact of the role models in her life including her parents who made sure her education took priority over her track career, her high school coach who saw her ultimate potential in the hurdles, and the legendary Jackie Joyner-Kersee, also from East St. Louis, who pulled her aside at a young age and told her that she had the potential to be great. In spite of the support, Dawn shares that her path to Olympic gold in 2008 was far from easy as she barely made the Olympic team while navigating the initial part of her pro career without a sponsor, wearing borrowed spikes from a teammate. From there, Dawn discusses how she dealt with the added pressure of being Olympic champion while going on to win 3 more medals and 4 Diamond League titles over the next decade in her highly-competitive event. She also tells us why the hurdles are different and why she believes the clean sport culture in the event is so strong. In 2018, she chose to retire after finding out she was pregnant with her daughter Harper. As she explains, the culture is gradually changing for the better, but traditionally, pregnancy has meant the end of your career for most women. Now in partnership with Cadenshae and &Mother, Dawn is on the comeback trail to return to the Olympics in Tokyo to show her daughter that you can be a mom and still chase big dreams. We are rooting for her but will still be forever-fans no matter what happens. Dawn's story is a powerful inspiration for us all!
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Episode #83: Kevin Hanson, Co-founder and Coach of Hansons-Brooks Distance Project
03/01/2021
Episode #83: Kevin Hanson, Co-founder and Coach of Hansons-Brooks Distance Project
There are few in the sport that have so selflessly given back to it as Kevin Hanson, and he's been doing it for the last 40+ years. He has coached at every level from high school to community college to the pros. He and his brother started and continue to run the Hanson's Running Shops near Detroit, Michigan, and of course, they are also the co-founders and coaches of the Hansons-Brooks Distance Project, the program that produced Olympian and Boston Marathon Champion Desiree Linden. In this episode, Chris and Shanna talk to Kevin about his journey from growing up near Detroit, Michigan in a lower-middle-class family to now giving back to the sport and to his home city as a coach, race director, and store owner. Kevin tells the hilarious story of his introduction to the marathon via his brother Keith boldly deciding to run one at the age of 13. He shares how his high school coach inspired him to get into coaching himself and to dream big, which ultimately led to the formation of the Hansons-Brooks team even though everyone told them it was a foolish idea. He talks about the evolution of the team from bringing Brooks on as a sponsor to producing their first Olympian in Brian Sell in 2008 and ultimately to the big win for Des Linden in Boston in 2018. Getting to the issues of clean sport, we discuss the zero-tolerance policy for doping on his team, the suspension of Alberto Salazar, the impact of super shoes on the roads and track, and the need for the re-allocation of funds from enriching the leaders in sports governance to more money for drug testing to catch the cheats. Kevin is a no-nonsense kind of guy that operates with integrity, who will always speak the truth about any topic. This conversation with us was no exception. Thank you Kevin for all that you do for our sport and for clean sport.
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Episode #82: Jim Walmsley, 4-Time Ultra Runner of the Year
02/14/2021
Episode #82: Jim Walmsley, 4-Time Ultra Runner of the Year
You know Jim Walmsley as the 4-time ultra runner of the year who owns the course record at the Western States 100, the 50-mile world record, and now the US 100K record. You probably also know him as the trail runner who ran a 1:04 half marathon on the roads to qualify and compete in the Olympic Marathon Trials with the road specialists, where he finished a respectable 22nd last February. But, did you know that he won a state cross country title in high school in Arizona? Or, that he attended the US Air Force Academy in Colorado Springs where he ran every distance from the mile to the 10,000 meters on the track including the steeplechase? Or, that he may not be the ultra trail runner he is today if not for being stationed at missile silo in Montana after graduation? Or, that he was one of the very first trail runners to sign the Clean Sport Pledge? Learn all of those things and more in this episode with Jim led by Shanna and Kara. Jim holds nothing back in sharing his story openly and honestly. It is comforting for us to know that Jim is leading the way in the trail world, where the culture of clean sport is already strong.
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Episode #81: Clare Egan, Olympian and World Cup Bronze Medalist in Biathlon
01/31/2021
Episode #81: Clare Egan, Olympian and World Cup Bronze Medalist in Biathlon
Clare Egan has *only* been competing in the sport of Biathlon for 8 years, but she has already made a lifetime of impact. Yes, you could talk about what she's accomplished for the US on the snow and ice as an athlete. She's an Olympian and a World Cup podium winner after all. Her real impact, however, has come as chair of the Athletes' Committee for the International Biathlon Union (IBU) where she's helped set a new tone in the sport, rooting out corruption in governance and taking a stand for clean sport. In this episode, Clare shares her story with Kara and Chris. She discusses growing up in Maine in the hometown of Joan Benoit Samuelson where running and cross country skiing were her first loves in sport. She shares her unusual path to the sport of Biathlon, which she didn't discover until the age of 25 when she met a famous Biathlon coach through her ski team. You also get to hear the hilarious story of her first target shooting lesson when the coach unceremoniously advised her, "do not try to hit the target." From there, we chat about her quick rise in the sport from Olympian in 2018 to World Cup bronze medalist in 2019, and Clare refreshingly tells us why she deserved that medal. Finally, we discuss all things clean sport as Clare talks about why it is such an important topic to her. Clare does not mince her words as she tells us that she believes the Court of Arbitration for Sport (CAS) should be dismantled and re-organized if we are ever going to win this fight for clean sport. She understands the impact of integrity within governance due to her involvement with the IBU, and we wholeheartedly agree with her perspective. Clare talks the talk and backs it up by walking the walk as an activist making change in her sport. We need more athletes willing to do so just like her. NY Times articles referenced in the discussion:
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Episode #80: Alexi Pappas, Olympian, Filmmaker, and Author of Bravey
01/24/2021
Episode #80: Alexi Pappas, Olympian, Filmmaker, and Author of Bravey
For a professional runner, the resume of Alexi Pappas looks a little different than most. Even though she is an Olympian and 10,000m record holder for Greece, her running accolades might not even be at the top of the list. She's also an actress, filmmaker, and now author of her own memoir . Her journey in life, however, has not been an easy one. In this episode, Kara and Shanna talk with Alexi about the challenges she has faced and the life lessons that have come along the way. Alexi discusses the difficulty of losing her mom to suicide at a young age and her evolving perspective on her mom's struggle as she has aged. She shares the story of being forced to quit her high school XC/track team and how it ended up being a blessing in disguise for her future in the sport. She talks about the importance of team in her life and all of the ways others (including Kara) have shown up for her. Alexi tells us why she chose to run for Greece, the magic of running a PR and national record in the Olympics in Rio in 2016, and then how she battled and overcame her own depression immediately following. Of course, we also get Alexi's perspective on doping, including her own initial naivete about it, and what she wants to see for the future of sport. This interview with Alexi is unlike any we have ever done. There is something for everyone in the discussion, and we are thankful that Alexi was so willing to openly share her story. Alexi is a role model to so many, and we highly recommend that you check out her book! Here are the two articles mentioned in the discussion:
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Episode #79: Ali Jawad, 3-Time Paralympian in Powerlifting
01/17/2021
Episode #79: Ali Jawad, 3-Time Paralympian in Powerlifting
We dare you to tell Ali Jawad that he can't do something. He will probably prove you wrong just as he's been doing his entire life. Ali was born without legs, but he has never viewed that as a disadvantage. At age 7, he dreamed of being on an Olympic podium after watching Michael Johnson win double golds in the 200m and 400m in Atlanta. He finally made that dream come true by winning a silver medal in Rio in 2016 in his third Paralympic Games. The journey to that podium was not an easy one. In fact, Ali nearly lost his life in 2010 due to complications from Crohn's disease. In this episode with Kara and Chris, Ali shares his inspiring story, one that has been grounded in integrity since the very beginning. He discusses his first week in powerlifting at 16 when his coach gave him the choice to always compete clean or get out of his gym. He talks about his meteoric rise in the sport to his first Paralympic Games in Beijing in 2008, but his chances for the podium there were derailed by a mysterious illness. That illness, later diagnosed as Crohn's disease would nearly take his life and almost cost him his career in 2010. Ever present, he is still struggling with the impact of Crohn's on his body to this day. Ali discusses how he overcame these challenges to become a World Champion in 2014, European Champion in 2015, and then win that coveted silver medal in Rio in 2016. Now, Ali hopes to make a 4th Paralympic team in Tokyo this year, but he tells you why it might be his biggest challenge yet. Along the way, Ali has been an outspoken advocate for clean sport since the very beginning of his career in powerlifting. He has spoken out against systematic doping in his sport, advocated for lifetime bans, and provided specific recommendations on how to change the governance structure within WADA in order to better elevate the athlete's voice. You will not find an athlete who speaks more clearly on these topics, and we are honored to share Ali's inspiring story with you.
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