Crushing Club Marketing Podcast

Crushing Club Marketing is a podcast for progressive private club leaders interested in increasing revenue. Our focus is on leadership, innovative digital marketing strategies and business trends that will shape the direction of clubs and drive growth in an evolving market.

What Private Club Leaders Need to Know Before Capturing Golf Course Drone Footage 01/15/2025

What Private Club Leaders Need to Know Before Capturing Golf Course Drone Footage In this episode, we talk with Russell Bennett, a professional drone photographer specializing in golf course imagery, about the technical and artistic aspects of capturing courses from above. From licensing requirements to creative techniques, Russ shares insights on how clubs can best utilize drone photography to showcase their facilities. Key Moments: Discussing Drone Sightings [00:03:00]: Before diving in, Russ discusses his perspective of seeing drones in the recent news. Getting Started in Drone Photography [00:03:45]: Russ discusses his transition from marketing to drone photography during COVID, starting with golf courses due to his passion for the game. Course Representation [05:30:00]: Conversation about the importance of quality drone footage in representing a club professionally versus settling for basic aerial shots. Licensing and Regulations [06:30:42]: Overview of FAA Part 107 licensing requirements for commercial drone pilots and important airspace restrictions near airports. Shooting Heights and Techniques [15:08:00]: Insights into flying heights and creative techniques for capturing engaging course footage, including low-altitude shots for dramatic effect. Technical Equipment Insights [17:16:18]: Russ explains different types of drones, focusing on the DJI Mavic Air 2S for cinematic shots and the DJI FPV for dynamic fast-moving footage. Drone Versus Handheld Videography [19:44:00]: Discussing finding a balance between using drone shots versus handheld gimbal shots. Shooting Strategy and Timing [23:16:00]: Details about optimal shooting times, with cinematic footage best captured during golden hour and technical hole-by-hole footage during midday. Working Around Golfers [24:55:00]: Discussion of strategies for filming while the course is active and considerations for capturing footage with or without players present. Multiple Day Advantages [27:12:00]: Discussion of why multiple shooting days are beneficial for capturing the best possible footage and ensuring complete coverage. Investment Value [29:16:00]: Explanation of why professional drone footage is a worthwhile investment for clubs, potentially lasting for years on their website and marketing materials. Questions to Ask a Drone Photographer Before Hiring [31:45:00]: Russ suggests asking photographers for samples of the artist's previous work alongside shot-specific insights. Final Thoughts [32:35:00]: Final thoughts are shared and Russ shares his profile, @birds_eye_film (Instagram), alongside his email: [email protected]. /episode/index/show/crushingclubmarketing/id/34850340

The Key to Successful Club Governance: A Discussion with Experts Denise Kuprionis and David Chag 12/04/2024

The Key to Successful Club Governance: A Discussion with Experts Denise Kuprionis and David Chag In the big picture of club improvements, updating bylaws and reviewing governance is about as uninteresting and unsexy as it gets. Most club leaders would rather spend these golden years of private clubs dreaming up capital improvements - which is great, but taking care of governance also matters. In this episode, we check in with David Chag and Denise Kuprionis from The Club Council to talk about Club Governance and why it matters for the health of your club today and in the future. Key Moments: Introduction to Club Governance [00:00:13]: Ed Heil introduces the importance of governance and bylaws in private clubs, noting how these "unsexy" elements are crucial for club health and culture. Governance vs. Bylaws Explained [00:04:44]: Denise Kuprionis explains the distinction between bylaws as controlling documents and governance as the broader framework of systems that help directors make decisions and determine club direction. Evolution of Board Oversight [00:09:32]: Discussion of how club boards are moving away from operational involvement toward true governance roles, with emphasis on the need for bylaws to reflect this shift. Communication and Transparency [00:20:07]: David Chag emphasizes the critical role of proper communication in maintaining trust, noting how clubs have developed more sophisticated communications departments to meet modern expectations. Board Succession Planning [00:24:01]: Denise Kuprionis discusses the importance of year-round succession planning for boards and the need to ensure diverse perspectives and skills in the boardroom. Modern Meeting Adaptations [00:26:17]: Discussion of how clubs are adapting governance practices for younger generations, including the use of Zoom meetings and respecting time constraints of volunteer board members. Bylaw Review Process [00:29:18]: Explanation of how most club bylaws don't need complete revamping but rather strategic updates to reflect modern governance practices. Board Culture and Performance [00:35:56]: Discussion of how culture is defined by accepted behaviors in the boardroom and the importance of setting clear expectations for board member conduct. Signs of Needed Governance Review [00:41:51]: Identification of warning signs that indicate a club needs to revisit its governance structure, including lack of transparency and member dissatisfaction. Steps for Improvement [00:45:38]: David Chag outlines actionable steps for improving club governance, emphasizing that it's about getting better rather than fixing what's "broken." /episode/index/show/crushingclubmarketing/id/34079516

Navigating Private Club Finances: A Smarter Approach to Dues and Initiation Fees 10/31/2024

Navigating Private Club Finances: A Smarter Approach to Dues and Initiation Fees Assessments. They seem to go hand-in-hand with private club membership. Many clubs have voted to assess members for new amenities in recent years, and many more are considering doing the same in the months ahead. Like death and taxes, clubs see assessments as a necessary evil, but are they? In this episode we talk to Jim Butler, CEO of Club Benchmarking who shares his perspective on assessments and how club’s can plan for the future more thoughtfully. What he says, may surprise you. Key Moments: • Introduction to Club Assessments [00:00:13]: Ed Heil introduces the topic of club assessments and how they, along with initiation fees, are two factors that often concern prospective club members. • Not-for-Profit Business Model [00:04:45]: Jim Butler explains the unique challenge of private clubs being not-for-profit entities, contrasting with how board members often try to apply for-profit thinking to club management. • Capital Intensity of Clubs [00:06:51]: Butler reveals that the average club has $28 million in gross assets while making no profit, making clubs one of the most capital-intensive industries. • Three Main Capital Sources [00:09:10]: Discussion of how clubs fund capital through three main sources: capital dues, initiation fees, and assessments, typically split equally between these sources. • The Irrigation System Story [00:18:30]: Butler shares an illuminating story about Thorny Lea Golf Club's 50-year-old irrigation system to explain the concept of capital consumption and member responsibility. • Net Worth Categories [00:24:02]: Description of the three categories of clubs based on net worth trajectory: decreasing (red bucket), flat (yellow bucket), and growing above inflation (25% of industry). • Union League Success Story [00:25:32]: Discussion of how the Union League of Philadelphia's success came from understanding the business model and creating more opportunities that members were willing to pay for. • Board Education Challenge [00:31:12]: Butler addresses the unique challenge of educating rotating board members about the club business model, with boards typically changing 3-4 members annually. • Counter-Intuitive Club Economics [00:34:29]: Explanation of how the most financially successful clubs often have the highest food and beverage subsidies, demonstrating the unique nature of club economics. • Industry Evolution [00:38:26]: Butler discusses the dramatic changes in the club industry from 2019 to 2023, including increased capital generation, facility investments, and unprecedented waiting lists at many clubs. /episode/index/show/crushingclubmarketing/id/33692622

Cultivating a Thriving Club Culture: An Interview with Three and Jackie Carpenter 10/01/2024

Cultivating a Thriving Club Culture: An Interview with Three and Jackie Carpenter In the competitive landscape of private clubs, creating a strong, positive culture isn't just a nice-to-have—it's essential when attracting new members and the best talent. Jackie and Three Carpenter are longtime professionals in the club industry and are also authors of the book "People First." Using their years of experience in the private club industry, Three and Jackie are uniquely positioned to share the critical importance of fostering a people-centric culture in private clubs. Their insights offer valuable lessons for club leaders looking to elevate their club's employee experience and, by extension, member satisfaction. Key Moments: Introduction to People First Concept [00:00:44]: Three and Jackie Carpenter are introduced as club leaders and coauthors of "People First: The Five Steps to Pure Human Connection and a Thriving Organization." Employee-Centric Approach [03:56]: Three Carpenter emphasizes the importance of an employee-centric approach as the foundation for great member success in clubs. Credibility in Employee Branding [11:04]: Jackie Carpenter explains the concept of credibility as why someone should work at your organization, emphasizing the importance of consistent employee branding. Candor in Hiring Process [15:42]: The Carpenters discuss the importance of candor in the hiring process, describing it as a transparent, authentic, and genuine conversation rather than an interrogation. Cultivation of New Employees [21:57]: Jackie Carpenter explains the importance of nurturing new employees instead of the old "sink or swim" mentality, emphasizing support and reducing anxiety. Commitment and Team-First Mentality [26:30]: Three Carpenter discusses how to foster a team-first mentality among employees, drawing parallels to successful sports teams and emphasizing collaboration. Empowering Employees to Take Ownership [28:37]: The Carpenters explain the concept of "fluidity" in roles and the importance of empowering employees to take ownership beyond their job descriptions. Formulas for Employee Engagement [31:18]: The podcast discusses three formulas for building employee commitment: Confidence + Comfort = Contribution, Devotion + Daring = Determination, and Energized + Encouragement = Empowerment. The Importance of Caring [35:27]: Jackie Carpenter breaks down the concept of "love" in business using the acronym LOVE (Loyalty, Ownership, Value, Excellence) and emphasizes the importance of focusing on how employees feel. Adapting to Modern Workforce Expectations [39:15]: The Carpenters stress that a people-first mindset is now an expectation of the modern workforce, not just a competitive advantage, and suggest ways for clubs to adapt, including hiring culture-focused staff if needed. Ed Heil [00:00:00] You're listening to Crushing Club Marketing, a podcast for progressive club leaders ready to increase their club's revenue. Time for Change begins right now. Ed Heil [00:00:13] Creating a high performing team in any business doesn't happen by accident. It begins with strong leadership at the top and runs through an entire organization of four clubs through the membership. We know great culture when we see it, but building outstanding culture isn't easy. In this episode, you'll hear from Three and Jackie Carpenter, club leaders and coauthors of the book "People First: The Five Steps to Pure Human Connection and a Thriving Organization.". Ed Heil [00:00:44] Thanks for listening. You know, bad culture when you see it and you also know amazing club culture when you see it. It's those clubs that they kind of seem like they're okay, but you're not really sure, those are the ones you got to wonder about. You can pick up on good and bad culture, by the way the staff treats you, how they talk to you, how helpful they are. And a lot of times it's just how attentive they are. And you also get a sense for culture when you meet the members and you hear how they talk about their club. Three and Jackie Carpenter have spent their entire careers in the private club industry. And in a business where customer service is expected to be at the highest level. They have created dynamic culture by building connected teams everywhere they have gone. If you know the Carpenter's or spent time with them, you know they are enthusiastic. They are focused and really positive. People who are passionate about helping people, especially their teams. They are so committed to helping people, they wrote a book called "People First." I talked to this dynamic duo recently to talk about their book in the Five Steps to Pure Human Connection and a Thriving organization. Jackie and Three, thanks so much for joining us today. Jackie Carpenter [00:02:00] Hi Ed, thanks. Three Carpenter [00:02:01] And we're glad to be here. Very. Ed Heil [00:02:04] It's great catching up. You know, and just in full transparency for for you who's listening. I've known Jackie, and Three, I think we may have met at a CMAA or something in passing at a conference. But Jackie and I have known each other, you know, just in passing as well for several years. And just learning more about your work in leadership has been really, really exciting and really interesting. Jackie Carpenter [00:02:31] Thank you. Yeah, it's been fun. Three Carpenter [00:02:33] Gosh, we've enjoyed it very much. And you know, our involvement with CMAA over the years, we've met so many great people that have had such a huge influence on our lives. Ed Heil [00:02:41] Yeah, that's terrific. Well, let's start let's talk about the book a little bit. What inspired you to write the book People First? Three Carpenter [00:02:49] Well, thanks for asking. You know, Jackie and I had spent a lot of years working in operations of clubs. I still do. And throughout that process, I think we sort of maybe took for granted a little bit internally that the things that we were doing, everybody was doing. And as we would talk to other industry leaders and we talked to people that worked at other places, we were finding out that some of the things we were doing were relatively unique. And my primary focus, and this is what Jackie kind of started maybe moving the book towards was this idea that we believed to have great member success. The foundational approach had to be having an employee culture and having an employee centric belief in everything we did. You build the foundation with the employees and then those other things like financial health or member engagement, all those things come from that foundation. Clubs notoriously believe we're only care about member experience. It's all about the members. That is true. Ultimately that that is the byproduct however of having great employee culture. Jackie Carpenter [00:03:56] Yeah. I think one thing that a lot of clubs discovered, especially during the Covid years, was that it doesn't matter how great your facilities are if you don't have employees to operate the club or to run those facilities, it can't be a great member experience. And so we really wanted to create, to write this book, to sort of create a model for others to follow on what they could do to really create a positive employee experience, a positive employee culture, and ultimately then a thriving organization. Three Carpenter [00:04:28] You had said all through the writing, though I think it was really interesting. Lots of people write books to identify what's wrong. Jackie Carpenter [00:04:35] Yeah. Three Carpenter [00:04:35] You know, this is it. This is the problem. This is it. And the reality is. Jackie Carpenter [00:04:40] Yes. So you need to change this. You need to change this. You need to change this. Right. But then you get done reading the book and you're like, Wow, I need to change this. What do I do? Ed Heil [00:04:48] Right, Right. Jackie Carpenter [00:04:49] It took us a long time to really delve into this process because we wanted you to be able to read the book and go, I know where to start, or I have some ideas to go and implement, or I can follow this roadmap to create change in my organization. Ed Heil [00:05:04] Yeah, that's it's an interesting point because you've got so many anecdotes and examples and case studies that you point to throughout the book that as you're reading it, you realize like, wow, this I mean, you know, let's face it, for a lot of people, you know, caring about your employees seems really kind of fluffy. Like, yeah, that's what I got to do. I got to care more. But it's like, the answer is yes. And when you look at how some of you know, world class businesses operate, that is what they do. So what let me ask you this. In that spirit, why is it what have you seen in the club industry that makes it really important for club leaders to to read? I mean, is there it seems to me like a lot of other industries where there's, you know, leadership challenges or understanding of what healthy culture looks like. But is there something that you've noticed about the club industry that makes us even more relevant? Three Carpenter [00:05:59] Yeah, club leaders are too busy for me as well, right? Every one of us are going a million different directions, seven days a week, you know, 18 hour days. Sometimes all those things happen. And then you say, Well, yeah, but look, you've got to focus first on this. And everyone says, Wait a minute, I don't know that I have time. We will tell you it has to be the number one priority. All those other things have to come second. And none of us think that way. And this whole book was intended to be a reminder of prioritizing the employee first kind of message. Those other things will come. Jackie Carpenter [00:06:35] Yeah, it's really an investment at you know, if you start with the employees, you're ultimately making your life easier down the road. But but it's an investment first and foremost. Ed Heil [00:06:45] Is this is some of that though some of the challenge with that because so many people that are club leaders or say, general managers. Right. They rise up on the food and bev side, they come up on the golf side and they're very. That work can be very tactical. It's like I've got to execute. And they fill their days with executing tasks rather than saying, take a step back and say, Hang on. I don't have to execute, I just have to help people see a greater vision or, as you know, the MVP's and really make some of that stuff very clear. But is that part of it as well, or how does that play into, you know, the fact that everyone is really, really busy? Three Carpenter [00:07:23] Well, I think you're 100% correct. Each one of us just digs too much into tasks. It happens to me occasionally as well. I actually try to spend time each day making sure I'm getting out and doing the employee touch stuff, doing the things where they see me, talk to me. We get lots of interaction. You know, you had made the comment about caring. That piece, it carries so much weight because it's such a simple concept. It seems so remedial. But the reality of it is when the employees realize it, you as an as a leader, really genuinely care about everything in their lives, not just their time at work, but everything. Then they work harder. They care more themselves, more loyal. It's that idea that, you know, they they that lead by example show people the care and everyone else follows it like that. Jackie Carpenter [00:08:10] So that like the people first mentality. Right. And is really where you recognize that it's your people are one of your biggest assets. They're not a tool used to create a member experience, but rather they are an asset that needs to be invested in and cared for and nurtured and developed. And so when you start operating with a people first mindset and using that to make all of your decisions or to kind of lead the way in the way that you lead your club, there are a realm of, you know, trickle down effects and ramifications of that that really, truly benefit the culture and frankly, the overall health of the organization. Three Carpenter [00:08:53] Years ago, someone might have looked at a club and like, my gosh, that club is so great. And they think of it like, because the golf course is so good. Jackie Carpenter [00:09:01] The facilities are amazing. Three Carpenter [00:09:03] The reality is the clubs that are wildly successful. Stop. Don't worry about that. Go dig in and go look at what's going on in their employee culture. Jackie Carpenter [00:09:12] It's about the people. Three Carpenter [00:09:13] We'll guarantee that is their strongest component. Jackie Carpenter [00:09:17] Fun fact we almost called the book. It's about the people. Three Carpenter [00:09:19] But yeah, People First, won. Ed Heil [00:09:22] It's concise. It's not, you know, So let's I love to just dive into and we're not going to we're not going to dissect the book. So if you're listening, think, my gosh, you're going to dissect this whole thing. For us to be able to talk through the five C's that in just I've mentioned, credibility, candor, cultivation, commitment and care. And to start with the fact that I think it's important that for the listener to recognize and they may not feel this way, but just by my perspective, I'm anxious to hear yours as well. You have to believe this stuff. It's not enough to say, yeah, we care about our team. You've got to you've got to live it. You've got to really believe in not just like now I got to say this thing because I know that that matters, but it's because people smell B.S. a million miles away. And maybe that's a good, you know, a as good a point to start as as any with credibility. And let's talk about credibility and what that means in, you know, in the people first context. Jackie Carpenter [00:10:22] Yeah, absolutely. So credibility is really why someone should work at your organization. It is who you are as an employer. It is your message to the outside world. And clubs are really great at why someone should join their club. They spend a lot of time and effort, you know, communicating that and prioritizing why a member should join their club and kind of historically haven't been fabulous at why someone should want to work at their club. And that is a that's what we call credibility today. It is your message to the outside world as to why somebody should want to come and work for you and what is. Three Carpenter [00:11:04] Your employee brand? Jackie Carpenter [00:11:05] Yeah, Yeah. And it has to be consistent. It has to be true and it has to be you have to be an employer that your employees can trust. And just like you said, you know, people can smell it. You can't tell someone, we're a great place to work, we're a great place to work. And then they show up and it's awful. Ed Heil [00:11:21] Right, Right. Three Carpenter [00:11:22] Years ago, Jack and I worked together at a club in Texas. And one of things I loved watching her do when she was helping us build that culture from the beginning, she would bring in a new employee as opposed to saying, my gosh, we're so great. And all these things that at that moment were not actually true. She would say, Listen, we're hiring you because we want you to come here and help us because right now we're here. We're going to be here. And as we go through the process, you're going to help make us better. And the reality of aspirational thinking and aspirational leadership, which is exactly what that was. Those people wanted to be part of the rebuild, the rebirth of what it would be our culture. Yeah. Ed Heil [00:12:03] Right. And I was just going to say, and that might be that one of the most difficult first steps to take because you're laying that down and you better have a plan for how you're going to execute that. I mean, if you're the new sheriff in town, that's one thing. You sort of have this clean slate. But if you're listening, you think, gosh, I've got a culture issue and if you make this decision, boy, you better be ready to back it up right now. Jackie Carpenter [00:12:27] Yeah. And it really starts. I mean, we are all about making things easy for people because we get again, club leaders are busy. But it starts with what do current employees say about you? Why do they like working there? What don't they like about working there? You know, if people are showing up for orientation and they're never coming back again, it's probably a red flag. Or if you're hiring people, you know, on the spot and then they go, yeah, again, a red flag. So there are some things there, you know, to really dig into and take a look at as to what your employees say about you. And that can be really insightful. It can be terrifying to to some people, but it's a question worth asking because they are the people you know. Again, it all starts with them. Ed Heil [00:13:13] Yeah. You talk about in the book, you know, in the credibility chapter about mission, vision and purpose. Why is it so important that that is clear to everyone in the organization? I would imagine first and then. But what's what's you help the listener understand why that's important. Jackie Carpenter [00:13:35] To people today. Purpose matters more than ever. It's not about a paycheck. It's not about necessarily even a title anymore. I mean, that used to be pay and title used to be the things that workers were seeking. And today it's much more about people knowing what they do matters and having a bigger purpose and a better mission. And I think clarifying the mission and the values and this is kind of what we reference in the book is people want clarity and they want to know what that is. It's I don't know if you've ever worked for someone where or in a club, they're kind of notorious for this, too, is when one manager says something, right? And then another manager says something totally different. And then a board member tells you something totally different and you're like, Well, what am I supposed to do? I just got three directives in an hour, right? So that clarity, that communication helps. What were you going to ask? Well, I. Three Carpenter [00:14:26] Was just going to say, too, you know, sometimes we also, as employees of a club in this example, we come in and think our job is to, you know, serve a hamburger. Yeah, whatever your, like, basic task might be. The reality is that isn't anything to do with that. And through the MVP process, we think that paints the bigger picture, that what you're really creating is an employee and member culture. I mean, that's what every employee is responsible for. By the way, here's some tasks you do while we try to work for these bigger things. People want to be part of the bigger part of it, so it gets pretty mundane to imagine. I'm just here on the floor. Just sweep the floor. I mean, that's exactly right. Ed Heil [00:15:06] Yeah. Helping people understand why their work matters is just is so, so important. And it's not like to your point earlier, Three, it's everyone's busy and it's like, wait, I have to tell him why this matters is like, yeah, "Ed's not very bright. He needs help." No, I'm just kidding. So that wasn't very nice. So candor, let's talk a little bit about candor, because that is one of those Well, in communications, candor can be very helpful and clear communication or on alignment. But within the book of People First. Talk to me a little bit about what candor means. Jackie Carpenter [00:15:42] Yeah. So candor is what we reference as when you're hiring an employee, right? And it's really the hiring process. So we say that when you're hiring someone, it needs to be a transparent, authentic, genuine conversation. It's not an interrogation. I don't know if you've ever been interrogated in a job interview before, Ed, but it's not something that's very comfortable or very rewarding as an employee. And especially today when it is a probably the most brutal job market out there. I mean, to try and get employees today, you have... /episode/index/show/crushingclubmarketing/id/33285042

Melissa Hansen: Elevating Private Clubs One Membership Professional at a Time [Ep. 40] 08/05/2024

Melissa Hansen: Elevating Private Clubs One Membership Professional at a Time [Ep. 40] Not long ago, a club’s membership director was the receptionist at the front desk. As it related to new member acquisition, that person’s primary job was to provide and receive, membership applications. In some cases, they may also be asked to provide a club tour. However, was not only foreign, it was considered tacky and frowned upon. After all, any club worth its salt should never “sell” memberships. Then the recession happened in 2008 and the private club industry had to adapt. It took time and, later, a pandemic to turn the tables on the downward trend, but as clubs rebounded through the 2010s, some clubs struggled and started to revise their perspective on recruiting new members. Emotionally tethered to their past ideas of exclusivity, prestige, and privilege, some clubs were forced to reinvent themselves. It was during this time that Melissa Hansen entered the private club industry as the Director of Marketing and Membership at Hammock Bay Golf & Country Club. A lifelong learner and networker, Melissa became a member of the Membership Directors of Southwest Florida (MDASF) and launched her career as a membership professional. Today, Melissa is the Director of Marketing and Membership at a private club in Naples, where she has been since 2011. She’s also a consultant and educator to membership professionals providing content and Masterclasses to those eager to transform their careers. Melissa routinely fills her classes and online training sessions with helpful content geared towards people entering the industry as well as those who are more seasoned. Episode Highlights 2:38 - What inspired Melissa to start her consulting practice 5:50 - How the membership director role has changed over the years 8:13 - Prioritizing marketing tactics in the digital age 9:36 - Using chat messages on club websites 12:38 - Make it easy for people to learn about your club 15:46 - Managing the current workload of a membership director while building for the future 16:05 - The value of a CRM (customer relationship management) platform 18:55 - How Melissa uses HubSpot to improve efficiency 19:59 - The membership director needs to be the sales person 21:28 - Social media as part of a club's marketing strategy 24:43 - Creating FOMO (fear of missing out) in prospective members 28:00 - Important skills to be a membership director today 30:27 - The value of investing in your people Ed Heil [00:00:00] You are listening to Crushing Club Marketing, a podcast for progressive club leaders ready to increase their club's revenue. Time for change begins right now. [00:00:13] Marketing and communications isn't what it used to be in the private club industry. And if you do what you've always done, you get what you always got. Which isn't too bad for clubs that never worry about driving membership. But for most clubs, driving new members is an ongoing concern. Melissa Hansen is a consultant for membership directors and an evangelist for digital marketing. In this episode, Melissa tells us why change is needed and what club leaders need to know to set a course for long term membership growth. Ed Heil [00:00:44] Well, in our world, it's StoryTeller. Every club should have a Melissa Hansen. She's a membership director. First of all, she's someone who embraces technology to help her do her job better. She cares passionately about her members and her club. She juggles a million things at one time and magically, somehow, she finds time to spend with her family. Now it gets better. Melissa also takes time to help other membership directors grow and learn with her mastermind classes. Her passion is to help them become better membership professionals as well. If you're interested, you can learn more about Melissa's Mastermind classes at Melissahansen.com, and we'll plug that again later at the end of the this episode. But Melissa and I connected recently. We had a terrific conversation about the changing responsibilities of membership directors and the many aspects this job has here in the 21st century. Put it this way, as you know, it isn't the same job it was 20 years ago, and it's actually a job that today transcends all business, not just the club industry, but you got to want to learn. And Melissa has the knowledge, the desire and the platform to teach. Melissa, thanks so much for joining me today. Melissa Hansen [00:02:03] I am so excited. I have been such a fan of your podcast for the longest time, so I'm very excited to be here. Ed Heil [00:02:10] Oh, you're very nice. The old joke is you're the one, it's been it's been a lot of fun to get to know you and spend some time with you. And in Naples at the MDASF. Right. And, seminar and, really, really cool. For people who are not as familiar with you in your work, can you give me a little background about, like, how how did you start your consulting practice? Like what inspired you to do that? Melissa Hansen [00:02:38] Yeah. So, I would definitely say that. So a couple of years back, I was the president of the organization, the membership directors of Southwest Florida, and I was on the board for about seven years. And I think we're we're lucky in that organization because we really have such a big group. There's now about 100, people in our direct area that are part of that association. [00:03:03]And through the seven years, really what I saw and I felt was not only the opportunity to get to know so many membership and marketing professionals in the area, but I was also meeting so many of the general managers, and what we would see was they would have a new hire on board, and there was really kind of a need for, to educate that membership professional. And so I just kind of decided to jump in, I've always been like an education junkie, and I've always, you know, always continued to educate myself, you know, after graduating from college, I always want to know the latest and the greatest. And, I really what I was trying to do was to take what I know and share it, you know, with the people that that I worked with that were in my role and really it just kind of spurred from there. [51.5s] We it first started local and now it's gone national. I work with over about 350 clubs, throughout the country. Ed Heil [00:04:04] Wow. And yet you're also a membership director. How do you have time to do all this stuff? And you're a mom? Melissa Hansen [00:04:13] I mean, there definitely aren't enough hours in the day. I'm not going to lie with you. You know, it's not easy. But I think at the end of the day, what it comes down to is it's my passion. Membership and marketing and the private club industry is my everything, and I just can't turn my brain off. Ed Heil [00:04:31] You've got so many educational opportunities for for your students. What do you, how do you hope they benefit the most? Melissa Hansen [00:04:39] I really just serve to inspire them. And just I love doing these. We do kind of discovery calls before we get started on a one on one and really kind of go through maybe a challenge or two that they're having at their club. And I think that after so many years of being in the industry that you've just you've tested it all right, you realize that there's things that work and things that don't work. And so I really just say, okay, this is your challenge. These are three things that worked for me. These are three things that have worked for other students at other clubs. Let's go ahead and try implementing these at yours and and helping you get through this challenge. Ed Heil [00:05:19] Yeah. Got it. The, there has been so much change. And, you know, in the time that you've been in the industry and, and really, you know, dare say that after 2010 there's been, you know, quite a bit of change with so much digital, presence in private clubs. What do you think, are some of the biggest changes? You've seen in the last 15 years and how those affected the membership director role. Melissa Hansen [00:05:50] Yeah, there there definitely been a lot of changes. I think as you mentioned, you know, the customer, the digital customer journey has been the thing that has changed so much and the way that our members and prospective members, really kind of, you know, expect to be communicated with, you know, 15 years ago as a membership professional, we might be pumping out a quarterly newsletter, or we might be creating a flyer, to promote an event. But now, as a membership professional, we are in charge of not only developing the website, but continuously keeping it updated. We are in charge of social media. We are charge of lead management and managing a CRM system. You know, our clubs have mobile apps and we're using push notifications and all that. Technology has just evolved so rapidly, and it is up to us as membership and marketing professionals to really continue to be educated and learn how to grow with those products. Ed Heil [00:06:57] You know, you say that and, you know, and I, I love the the willingness to say it's our responsibility. But that's a lot of stuff. I mean, is it how realistic is it if if, you know, if I'm a general manager listening to this, this is like our opportunity to say like, is it realistic to say you got to know all this stuff and you know, your newsletters and all the other things? Is it is it realistic, do you think? Melissa Hansen [00:07:24] I mean, I think it is essential. I think it is essential to be a thriving club, you know, a waitlisted club, you know, a club where you are, where you need to be. Do I think that everything has to be implemented at once or by one person? No. I mean, I'm at my club, a department of one. You know, I work with so many companies and vendors behind the scenes that get me to where I am. Ed Heil [00:07:55] How do you do it? I mean, you're you're a team of one. And yet, I mean, there are so many things. How do you determine, you know, what to implement? When is there and is there, an approach to that that you've seen that works across the board, or how do you advise people in that way? Melissa Hansen [00:08:13] I would definitely say, you know, [00:08:14]focus on on one thing at a time and, you know, get that under your belt for, you know, six months or so. For example, I like to I love to connect with other, you know, experts in the industry and see, you know, especially technology gurus and see what's working for them. [16.3s] And, one of the things that had come about for me about a year ago, was implementing this online chat on the website, and I was like, no way, no way am I going to implement this live chat where basically I have to respond when a right away when anyone asks me a question like, I'm doing a million things, I'm walking around the building, I'm part of tournaments, how will I be able to do that? But I decided, you know what? I'm going to give it a go. And worst case scenario, we can turn it off. And that has been one of the biggest tools in my toolbox over the past year. Literally converting members at $100,000, memberships that have never stepped foot in the club through chat, through live chat. Ed Heil [00:09:18] Interesting. So just to break that down a little bit, I mean, "A" that's awesome. That's amazing. Just maybe how do you manage it like, you know, do you have like notifications going to your phone and while you're walking around you like how does that work? Melissa Hansen [00:09:36] Exactly. So the notifications go to your phone. We always have our phones next to us. I mean, that's just how it is. So it comes in just like a text message. We can toggle it off. So when I'm heading home and getting ready for my son's baseball game, you know, I'm not listening to or replying to online chat, so I toggle it off, you know, in the evening or when I'm not available. And that's, I think, the biggest misconception that I wasn't aware of before I dove into it. But when I am available, when I am making my phone or I am next to my computer, it's just been such a phenomenal resource for us. Ed Heil [00:10:11] So, this is a little bit of a tangent, and if you'll just bear with me a little bit, I'm I'm really interested to hear your perspective on that because, you know, go back five years ago and the idea of using chat in a private club just felt really cold and informal. And why would you do that? And there I'm sure you talked to membership directors who might say, I would rather try to go for that tour and bring them in, and that's going to be a barrier like it seems. Count. Well, I get it. And yet it probably feels very counter intuitive to a lot of membership directors who prefer to, you know. Have people come on site for a tour? Melissa Hansen [00:10:52] Definitely. I mean, [00:10:53]I think at the end of the day, Ed, like as membership professionals, we need to be the face of our club, okay. We, you know, biggest pet peeve of mine that I posted on LinkedIn recently is when I go to the membership pages of these club websites and it's just like, contact our membership department. Who am I contacting? You know, I want to see what the membership professional looks like. I want to know their name. You know, I want to buy one them. I want to, you know, this is about to be my second family. I'm joining a club. This is my lifestyle. I want to connect with someone. And so I truly feel that that the online chat has just allowed me another opportunity to put my face in front of my club and just allow me to, to connect with these prospects. [44.4s] Ed Heil [00:11:39] What is the in your opinion? What is that mind shift of, the membership, maybe not the membership professional. It might be the general manager, it might be the board members. But what is a shift that needs to occur to say, hey, this website, I will see if I try to turn this away when people come to learn more about us, this is not about what information we want to share. It's really about how can you provide that visitor the information they're looking for? You know what I mean? It's, I think historically, for a lot of clubs, there's been this idea of like, no, no, no, we're very exclusive. If you want to come, you'll play by our rules. Rather than saying, how do we make it easier for people to learn more about what club life is like at our club? Melissa Hansen [00:12:38] That is so good. [00:12:40]I feel like that that that has been such a shift. And if you're not shifting with the change, of that kind of vibe at your club, I think that you are missing out. [11.0s] I think that if you just take, for example, the last time you went to purchase a card, you know, which is a high end purchase. You were doing your research online before you ever stepped foot into XYZ dealership. And I just remember the last time that I was doing it, I had narrowed down my search to to three different cars, and it was the online chat and the sales person that was following up with me that was answering my specific questions about if this would be the right vehicle for my family. That ultimately swayed me to purchase that vehicle over the other that were in my top three, and I feel like it is so similar in the private club journey. At the end of the day, our buyers are all in a different point of their buying journey, right? Some of them are just starting this journey. They might be, you know, becoming a member of a club for the very first time. And they just might want to collect some information. Some of them might be ready to schedule a tour, but, you know, they've been a member of a private club. Maybe they've played here as a guest. They're ready to schedule a tour in their, you know, a little bit more of a hot lead, and some of them might be able to, to purchase right away. And I just think that you as a club and you as a, you know, membership professional, you truly need to be able to meet them wherever they are in their journey. Ed Heil [00:14:16] Yeah. And this idea that, because you are accessible and because you make it easy for someone to learn about your club doesn't mean that you can't be exclusive like this whole idea, right? It is as a as a club, you can still be just as selective or selective as you choose to be about the members that become members of the club. Melissa Hansen [00:14:40] Absolutely. Absolutely. Ed Heil [00:14:42] I want to go back, though, to, something that we were talking about a couple of minutes ago. We went off on a tangent, which is the implementation, and we're talking about the fact that you don't necessarily have to do everything at once. If you're a membership director looking to implement change. You picked certain things. And that's when we started talking about chat and using chat bots. And so with that, how do you in your experience and conversations you have, how do you recommend membership directors approach those conversations with their GM or, you know, who's also reporting to a board that in some cases want things to happen really fast. And as we all know, board members and committee members, you know, different clubs will, you know, fly off the handle with an idea and say, hey, we should do this. We should do this. How does a membership director in this day and age manage that kind of stuff while trying to set priorities? Melissa Hansen [00:15:46] Yeah, I mean, I think it's definitely tough because like you're saying, everyone comes kind of like from a their personal side of it, right? That they think that this would this is the next best thing that they should implement. But at the end of the day, all of our clubs, we have budgets, right. We most of us have marketing budgets. And oftentimes some of the things that we're looking to implement may not have been budgeted for that year. And it might be something that we have to plan for, for the future. You know, I think, Ed, I know that you are such a huge advocate for, for CRM systems. And I know that you and I, we use we're both lovers of HubSpot. But I would say that that is like, the number one mistake that I see in clubs is the lack of utilization of a, of a good CRM system, because if you're starting with a good CRM system and you are able to start to report these different tactics that you are implementing these different marketing tactics, then you can go to your board and say, you know, we implemented this gated content piece and we received this many qualified leads and this many qualified leads ended up turning to this many sales. But without having the backbone of a something like a CRM system, I really think you're missing the boat on on all things marketing. Ed Heil [00:17:07] Yeah. So that idea of being able to say to whether it's your GM or whether it's, committee chair or something like that, to be able to say, hey, we're actually tracking this, we're implementing this part, we're tracking the results, and then we'll be able to make better decisions about other things. But right now, this is what we're focusing on. And we have real data as opposed to just like chasing down 10 million things, not tracking a darn thing and going, I don't know what I'm doing. You know, it's because even if you do kind of know what you're doing without good data, it's hard to it's hard to go to anyone with any real explanation. Melissa Hansen [00:17:45] Exactly. I mean, I think at the end of the day, those are what the boards and committees are looking for. They want the data. You know, if you're going to be spending 5 to $10,000 on some sort of campaign or implementing something new or a new website or or whatever it is, we need the numbers to be able to justify that and to back that up. Ed Heil [00:18:05] Let's go down the, the road where you started with HubSpot. And yes, you know, in full disclosure, we are HubSpot partners, and I know you're a, user as well, but I think you from a bigger, more broad perspective of technology and we, you know, talking about chatbot, it's the same thing. And, and as we discuss membership directors, more and more are is being asked of them in... /episode/index/show/crushingclubmarketing/id/32449122

Why Private Club Membership Directors Need to Sell 06/26/2024

Why Private Club Membership Directors Need to Sell The words Selling and Private Club Membership typically do not go hand-in-hand. In fact, most Membership Directors, wouldn’t be caught dead saying they “sell private club memberships”. People sell timeshare properties and vacation packages, but not private club memberships. Or do they? Sales trainer and consultant and founder of Cindy Novotny, is with me in this episode to talk about SALES processes that every club should implement to create long term success. Episode Highlights 4:08 - How sales and marketing applies to the private clube and hospitality industries. 5:42 - The impact of the pandemic on private clubs 7:20 - Now is the time to train your team 9:51 - You're selling experiences 15:08 - Where clubs are struggling today with their sales and marketing 17:44 - Where to start with training your team 19:46 - Sales is no longer a bad word in the hospitality industry 22:21 - Selling is not cold calling 25:45 - The pandemic made some club leaders "cocky" 28:43 - The best follow up methods for prospects 33:07 - Phone calls or email follow ups? Ed Heil [00:00:00] You are listening to Crushing Club Marketing, a podcast for progressive club leaders ready to increase their club's revenue. Time for change begins right now. Ed Heil [00:00:13] The word selling, and private club membership typically don't go hand in hand. In fact, most membership directors wouldn't be caught dead saying they sell private club memberships. People sell timeshare properties and vacation packages, but not private club memberships. Or do they? Sales trainer and consultant and founder of Master Connection Associates, Cindy Novotny is with me in this episode to talk about sales processes that every club should implement to create long term success. Ed Heil [00:00:47] Thanks for joining me today. As I mentioned in the intro, you usually will not hear membership professionals in the private club industry talk about quote unquote selling memberships. It sounds tacky. It lowers perceived value, and the stature of the club is overall cheapened when you use words like that. Typically when you're talking about new member acquisition. But there's a difference between saying you sell club memberships and having proven sales processes in place to drive new member inquiries. So with 50% of the clubs in the country enjoying a new member waitlist. Why does this matter? You might ask yourself, well, we know it won't last forever, right? And with most clubs financially stable today, now is the time to invest. And we know that most would agree with this, especially the healthy clubs, because they're making considerable capital improvements to increase the value of the club and make it, and to invest more in their club. So clubs have all been through the ups and downs of the economy with rising and falling membership initiation fees. And you know that that's not good for your brand. But by building strong processes, investing in technology to improve efficiency and reporting, and even redefining the role of the membership team and membership director, your club can be better equipped to weather the storm that you know is coming. Ed Heil [00:02:17] So Cindy Novotny joins me in this episode as we dive into some of the issues clubs have and some recommendations she has for club leaders. Now, she is bold, she's direct, and she looks at the industry extremely realistically from a business and sales perspective, which in this day and age, it's changed so much through the years with technology and how people shop and how people buy. So we caught up earlier this year, and I was able to pin her down for a half hour while she is traveling the globe, and we had this conversation. Cindy, thanks so much for joining us today. Cindy Novotny [00:02:51] Absolutely. I am thrilled to be with you. This is fantastic. Ed Heil [00:02:55] Well my gosh. All right. So if you're listening to this you don't know how long. I mean it's been years. I think it was actually pre-pandemic when we were you know, I was, you know, talking to you and then to lefty and then we ran into each other at PCMA in Savannah. Yes, I think a year and a half ago or something like that. So, man, I'm just glad to catch up with you finally. Cindy Novotny [00:03:16] Absolutely. I mean, I just I think everything you're doing is so great. And, the fact that I am such a road warrior living on the road, jumping from place to place, I'm so glad we have this opportunity. Ed Heil [00:03:28] The road warriors and understatement. I think you would probably agree for the way. The way it's been going for you. So. Well, let's jump into it. You know, for for the listener who maybe hasn't had the opportunity to be part of your training or heard you speak, let's help help people understand the connection between, you know, the hospitality industry. And if you think about that from the perspective of like hotels, resorts and things like that, private clubs are also very much part of the hospitality industry. But how do you see those, the two worlds, maybe if you think about hotels, resorts and that sort of part of hospitality connecting from a sales and marketing perspective or otherwise with private clubs? Cindy Novotny [00:04:08] Well, it's huge. And I, I grew up in an industry that was I worked for private dining clubs, in Chicago, in New York and at a very young age learning, oh, wow, this is kind of cool. And people pay a membership to just come and have dinner. And then I recognize that it's really all about the experience, and it's all about what somebody wants to feel like. Then, as I continued in the hospitality industry, crossing over into hotels and resorts and now private engagement and jets, we do a lot of work, as you know, in private clubs on sales, training and sometimes sales is like, oh, well, we don't have to sell because we're a private club and you know everybody. We've got a list of people waiting to get in. And I always back up and say, yeah, you have a list of people waiting to get in right now. But there was a time when you were fighting to get members because we compete with so many other experiences. It's not just like we're competing private club to private club, we're competing private club membership to a second home or a yacht or something like that. Ed Heil [00:05:13] Let's talk about that. And, because I'm, I'm interested first in your take on that change, that shift in, in what you're seeing out there from the recognition of your clients as it relates to, hey, we you know, we can't just wait for people to walk in the door. We actually have to have more of a process. Are you seeing just how much greater awareness are you seeing around that? Or is it is it been slow, is have been fast, especially with the pandemic being so good for so many clubs? Cindy Novotny [00:05:42] Yeah. I mean, as I say, I can't even say the word C-O-V-I-D. Right? I cannot. But the one thing there was two things that happened. One is zooms and calls and teams. That's now status normal. When you talk to clients, getting them on a call face to face. Okay. That's because of the pandemic. The second is golf. Even golf clubs because we work with lots of golf clubs. Prior to the pandemic, the younger generation, it was dipping down. They weren't. It's like it's I don't want to go to my dad's club and I don't want to get married at my grandpa's club. And there was a lot of that kind of slowdown. And what I saw happen is that even I belong to a private club in Codo de Caza in California, and then also in Cedar Rapids, a private club. But I saw all of a sudden, like, outdoors. Oh my gosh, I don't want to be like, I don't want to be held back. I can't do things where private clubs were giving people the ability to get out on the golf courses, the fresh air, play tennis, pickleball, all these things. And because the private dining there was sometimes less. It was it like jams of people. So now that has taken the trajectory right up. I mean, that that's why so many people are seeing waiting list to get into those clubs, right? Ed Heil [00:07:02] You know, in many ways, because of this lack of maybe pressure, it seems like this is the time for private clubs. If they're thinking they they need to get their membership directors trained and sales that this is the time to do that. Cindy Novotny [00:07:20] Oh right. And and by the way, if you can sell, you'll always have a job. Let me just say that. All right. Transactional order taking will be replaced is being replaced by AI. So if you're just sitting back and managing your membership, what are you doing? I mean, there's a there's a new member behind every member. There's a new event, a new party, a corporate event. There's so much for that incremental revenue into a club where they can have their company sponsor dinners. And so you have to work your existing membership to be able to get that. But more importantly is there's a lot of competition now. There are private hotels, membership only. There are so many more private city clubs, so many more private bars and fun, cool places that unless you're a member, you can't even get in. You've got to know somebody who knows somebody. And because of that, that is starting to dilute some of the traditional clubs where people go, you know what? I'm not going to join. I'm not going to be a member of this club anymore because I actually don't live in the city anymore. I moved out to the suburbs. So I'm, I'm, I'm going to get rid of being a part of this athletic club or this dining club, and I'm going to move out to the suburbs. Secondly, I'm going to rid of my golf membership because do we really need that is a lot of money. I mean, you know, we have to force ourselves to make sure we every quarter get our dining, you know, minimum. Right. And so what happens is a lot of people have that same thought. So if you're not working it to keep that pipeline full, the people just like me now, we haven't canceled our club. But I could say, you know what, I don't even. Why do I even bother? So that's why you have to keep your grit, your nose to the grindstone, a new one, a new one, a new one all the time. Even those that have waiting lists. Ed Heil [00:09:12] Yeah. Interesting. You know. Yeah. There's so many things in there. Let's let's talk about the, part one. Part of it is just the competition. And you talked about this before, and I've heard other people in other podcasts, interviews that people I've talked to that have said, if you're thinking of your competition as the club down the street, you're missing it. And then, you know, three different people have said, look at what the hospitality industry is doing. If you want to see how to really enhance your presence online, if you really want to see how to, sell experiences, look at what resorts are doing and how they positioned themselves. How do you feel about that? Cindy Novotny [00:09:51] Oh, it's all about that. And most of the clubs that I even work in their social media presence is sad. Sad, I mean, and I think to myself, well, they and they say things like, well we can't really show a members event. I go, you're not showing the member and you're not giving the member's name, but you can show the setup because it's like what we've done. But a backing up to that. You know, I look at hospitality as an experience, hence why 40% of our business is outside of the hotel, club, private dining industry, automotive, you know, medical. And you think, well, how does hospitality relate? Because everyone in business today wants an experience. Okay. Even if you're going to a hospital, you know, it's not the clinical side that we're not messing with. But you don't want to go and feel you're already nervous. You want your your. Registration to get into the hospital. Be nice. You want the billing. So if you think about clubs, private clubs. All right. It's like if you really want to go to a tennis match or a football game because you're so in to the game, to the techniques and to what, you'll watch it from your massive screen at home. Okay, that's it. But if you love the experience of going to a football or a hockey game or a tennis match, you don't want to watch it from your sofa. You want to be in those stands and eating that Dodger Dog and having fun and doing what you do. And that's like a club. If I want to go to a fine dining restaurant, there is 1,000,000 and 1 Michelin star over the top. Cool chefs. I can go anywhere and edit everybody open to the public. We all can go. Ed Heil [00:11:39] Yeah. Cindy Novotny [00:11:39] But if you want an experience where they actually know you and they call you by name, and they you bring guests and they, they make your guests feel very special. And there's always that certain thing that's not in the menu, but they make for you. And there's that certain cocktail that they know you like and they make it for you. That is an experience. Okay. Same thing with golf. So, you know, my husband's a big golfer, but he golfs at a public course that is small, but they make you feel like a member because there's very few people and it's gorgeous overlooking Lake Michigan. And he actually at time says, you know, I actually like it here better than even some of the private clubs I'm at. Right. Because so if it's just the game, I can get it anywhere. But the club makes it an experience and you have to be trained to know how to do that. And your social media presence, your online presence has to portray that. Ed Heil [00:12:37] Awesome. So I mean, what I'm hearing you say, well, let me ask. Yes, that's a shift, right? Because there's still a lot of private clubs that believe they're selling the exclusivity. Like you get you get to be a member of this exclusive group. But I mean, what I'm hearing you say is really in many ways, that's not enough anymore. It's not enough to just say we're exclusive. You can't get in now. Cindy Novotny [00:13:03] And by the way. That's okay. But not everyone enjoys that tag line. I love exclusivity all the time too. I like, you know, I'm in. You know, I travel all the time. So you know, obviously United Club is for anybody that wants to pay their money. But because I'm global service and I'm global service for life, I've flown 10 million miles. Even when those clubs, as you know, when you travel, if they're too busy, they start stopping people, people that have paid for a membership but not me. I show my ticket, it says Global Service. I'm let right in. Yeah, I board the plane first. I love the exclusivity of that feel, but. I can also fly another airline and get to the same destination, right? The word exclusivity has got to be in combination with experience, and some of the big, big country club groups have lost their edge. They've got they've taken a private, kind of more intimate experience with all the big social memberships, which I'm all about builds your business. But what they do is they fail to forget, oh, you're actually a golf member. You actually pay five times more than what this social member pays, right? Used to be that there's private like at our club. And I have no problem saying this out loud because it's my club. You know, we're golf members, all right? We pay way more money, and we paid way more investment to get into that separate golf bathrooms for us. When we're dining, we go only club members only now. They could care less. Everybody's in there. Doesn't matter. That takes exclusivity and destroys the experience. Ed Heil [00:14:50] Yeah. Interesting. That's a really interesting take on that that that differentiation there. What are the most common things that you see, maybe the most common issues that you're seeing in your work and your consulting membership teams struggle with today? You know, especially as it relates to some of this stuff, you know? Cindy Novotny [00:15:08] Right. First of all, lack of training. They they promote somebody who is young working there. And I love youth, believe me. But, you know, we have to be trained and be developed. So they they just say, oh, well, you were really good. You worked your summers while you were at school and now, you know, you were like a restaurant manager. Would you like to be a membership director? Would you like to. And then bingo. Put them in it. Then they have no idea. They don't know how to reach out, how to talk to an existing member. They're Monday through Friday, 9 to 5 hours. So I'm not even kidding. Some of them. I mean, it's hilarious. Okay. And I'll say to him, you know, if there's a big event going on, a membership event for members, you need to be there and talk to the members and who else they know and and ask about what kind of events they like, because it's not just about the new, getting new members. It's about enhancing what the current members really like. Sometimes we're putting on things for our members that no one cares about. They're like, I don't even like, why? Why are you doing that? And yet some of the things have to be continued to be changed because the age difference, the youth, the people that don't want that, they don't want that, you know, Thursday night card game, they might want a game night for all families of all ages and things. So I think the biggest thing I see is lack of knowledge of the industry, lack of training, lack of how to actually use online presence, social media to find business. Right. How to follow up. We do a lot of mystery shops, of private clubs where we call inquiring about membership and it's like hilarious. Okay, we'll send you out a packet. And by the way, there's 50 people. There's 50 people on the waiting list. All right. So we'll just email and no asking questions. What would we be interested in. That's what I see is one of the the biggest problems. Ed Heil [00:16:59] Yeah. So the training thing is seems like a big thing because, you know, I mean, I think of this from the terms of it's hard to find good people in a lot of industries in the club industry and hospitality I know has struggled with that as well. So let's just say you do have these people who are eager enough, but they really have no training at all, is there? And this is probably a softball for you, but I am kind of interested because it can be a deterrent for a decision maker general manager. But, to invest in, you know, cash. What's it going to cost me to train this person? Right. So where do you start? Where do you start? With someone who just doesn't, you know, an employee who's like, yeah, I'll try that. I think I could do that. Like, how do you start training? Cindy Novotny [00:17:44] So my answer to that is simple. I say to every GM, even the equity, clubs. And you know, when I deal with boards, I'll say, you know, if you say, why should I invest? What if they leave, I go, what happens when you don't invest in training and they stay? And that is the number one biggest issue. And sometimes the turnover could be like they come in, they want to make a name for themselves. Well, remember a majority of those clubs are not looking for profit. So some of them are trying to deliver excellence. Now I happen to work with some clubs like that are phenomenal like El Niguel in Southern California. Unbelievable. They're, you know, head of membership in their general manager and what they do monthly learnings with every single employee training reading books like Unreasonable Hospitality book clubs. I speak probably like once a quarter with them. They are so invested in training and the the actual members members talk about it all the time. I cannot believe how well versed the staff is, and some of them have been there for ten, 15, 20 years. And you and I both know I love to have people stick around if they get continue training. I don't want you sticking around because it's just an easy gig, right? And that's the difference. Ed Heil [00:19:09] Yeah. It's like the the old line is the only thing worse than an employee, who quits as an employee, who... /episode/index/show/crushingclubmarketing/id/31900997

Lead Management to Fuel Private Club Growth [ep. 38] 04/29/2024

Lead Management to Fuel Private Club Growth [ep. 38] Most successful businesses have a defined sales process. One that identifies the best prospects, converts them into leads and then nurtures those leads with emails into customers. Most private clubs are missing this process. If your club has enjoyed a waitlist, this isn’t a big deal, but what happens when the well runs dry? In this episode we’re talking about lead management with Kevin Page, Managing Director at StoryTeller and lead HubSpot strategist and lead management expert. We'll dive into managing new prospective member leads, increasing efficiency and helping clubs avoid reactive membership recruitment. Key Moments 1:36 - Ed and Kevin discuss typical prospective member intake processes at most clubs. 5:04 - Ed explains the need to help Membership Directors operate more efficiently. 7:00 - Automating the inquiry process for prospective members doesn't have to be "robotic", Ed and Kevin discuss the advantages and consderations of automation. 9:36 - Responding in a timely manner to a prospective member's inquiry is important and email communication that is tailored for that inquiry can add customization while also utilize automation to make it more efficient and reliable. 10:46 - Kevin explains you can still communicate a level of exclusivity with automated email responses. 12:24 - Kevin explains the importance of sending membership information as part of an automated reply to a website form inquiry. Many clubs already send a "template" response which is not as efficient. 15:01 - Membership directors can get valuable time returned to them by having a process that leverages email automation. Membership Directors will spend less time on unqualified leads and more time with qualified prospects. 19:50 - Ed and Kevin discuss the importance of staying in touch with prospective members who are not ready to join this year, but possibly in the future. 21:08 - Kevin recaps the valuable engagement analytics gained from tracking emails sent and opened. 23:02 - Marketing automation can help clubs beyond new member acquisition. Clubs that host outside catering events can leverage similar technology and CRM platforms to manage leads and forecast new business. 25:57 - Ed and Kevin talk about tracking online activity of prospects and how it can help your membership and catering teams prioritize the most qualified prospects. A high performing CRM will also help your team provide accurate forecasts to report back to committee chairs and the board. 31:04 - Kevin talks about the importance of tracking tasks in a CRM so Membership Directors can stay on top of the many responsibilities they juggle. Podcast Transcript Ed Heil: You are listening to Crushing Club Marketing, a podcast for progressive club leaders ready to increase their club's revenue. Time for change begins right now. Most successful businesses have a defined sales process, one that identifies the best prospects, converts them into leads, and then nurtures those leads with emails into customers. Most private clubs are missing this process. When your club has a waitlist this isn't a big deal, but what happens when the well runs dry? Today we're talking about lead management with Kevin Page, StoryTeller's lead HubSpot strategist and lead management expert. Hey, Kevin Page in the house. How's it going, Kev? Kevin Page: [00:00:48] I'm great. How are you, Ed? Ed Heil: [00:00:49] Awesome. Well, thanks for joining us today. And, I know that our audience is, is interested in this topic because, you know, as you know, working with many of our clients and in clubs that, the actual like, how would you say the actual, like, member application and intake process for that is, is not always the same at every club. And, it can differ from club to club, but in general, it's a pretty outdated process. Like in your work in, in the clubs you've worked. What sort of the typical process when someone expresses an interest or goes to a website to learn more about about a club. Kevin Page: [00:01:36] Yeah. Good question. Often times, you know, these, clubs will have some type of form on the website, whether that be, contact us form, request a tour, download our membership pricing, something along those lines. And that will send a notification to the membership director that membership director, you know, typically is doing one of two things right there, either reaching out and sending, you know, some type of personalized email, to try to nurture that relationship and get to know the person a little bit better, or oftentimes, they're just sending over whatever information that that particular person is asking for. And, you know, crossing their fingers and hoping that an application comes in soon after. Ed Heil: [00:02:22] Right. And so, I mean, I'm in truth, I think that we see a lot as well is that there isn't a, you know, there there might be some sort of like download, get our membership guide or something like that. But in so many cases, especially the more, gosh, what would you say? Maybe the more conservative clubs are just like, hey, request a tour, get more information or something like that. And while, you know, I think that it's not like it's not that that doesn't work, right. I mean, it's not like there isn't you're not getting that information, but they're missing allowed, missing out quite a bit if all they're doing is responding. Just. What, like a notification? That's what a lot of people get using club software today is they'll get a notification in their inbox, their email saying, hey, Kevin Page, apply to be a member today. Right. So. They're missing out a lot of stuff, aren't they? I mean, as far as what they could glean from that person. Kevin Page: [00:03:26] Yeah. Well, what what we oftentimes find when we're working with, with new clubs or consulting with new clubs is there's not much else after that initial outreach. So that initial outreach, many of these membership directors and clubs are, you know, really great at and being on the ball with, hey, those notifications come in. I want to strike while the iron is hot and get out to this person and see if you know they're truly qualified and interested in in joining the club. Others maybe want to either appear very exclusive or, you know, and actually are very exclusive and, and want to, kind of handle the, the sales process with that sort of, dynamic as well. So there's just. Yep. Here's the application process. You know, it's a bit colder. So, you know, either of those approaches. What typically happens is that after that initial approach, it's all right. They join or they don't. And if they don't join, there's very rarely a process in place for, you know, the ongoing nurturing of those people. And as we know, you know, joining a club and membership for most folks is a big decision and a decision that takes some time. You know, a lot of people submitting those forms or understanding or trying to reach out and understanding what membership pricing looks like may not be ready to make that decision within the next 14 days. 30 days, you know, even six months. So it is a bit of a process. But it's not always treated as that type of process, if that makes sense. Ed Heil: [00:05:04] Oh, for sure. And it's, you know, again, that, not to go too far down how old school a lot of processes are, but they have something that's just not necessarily the most efficient process. And I think the one thing I just don't want to lose sight of, if you're listening to this and you happen to be a membership director, you're going, my gosh, are you kidding me? Like, I've got so much stuff I'm responsible for and frankly, with, you know, social media today and with so much digital communications, not to mention a lot of membership directors are responsible for the club newsletter and other things that they're pulled in a lot of different directions, and we get it. So one of the things that we hope that you're able to walk away from today, if you're listening, is, some ideas and ways you can make that process a little bit more efficient. Free up to do some more things and really focus on the the areas where you can really maybe drive the most success and not just for yourself, but for the club as well. So, Kev, let's talk a little bit about, the automation process. Because when you say automation to people in the private club space, it is almost like oil and water. So "oooh, automation doesn't sound like a personal touch," which is very much what historically clubs have wanted to provide that that level of intimacy, especially since they're joining, there, you know, that prospect might be joining their club. And yet automation can feel very, you know, very cold. So let's just talk about what let's start with maybe what does that look like? And when when we talk about automating the process of someone applying or filling out a form on the website so that the membership director doesn't have to handle each one, what does that look like? Kevin Page: [00:07:00] Yeah. That's a great question. So, you know, I look at it in kind of two different parts. And the first part of it is really trying to optimize, the, the time of, you know, let's, let's say the membership director you just mentioned, the number of hats that they wear, the responsibilities that they have oftentimes to member retention and engagement as well as driving new members. And so through that automation, what what we're attempting to do is make sure that they're focusing their attention on the right people, the most qualified people. And so a lot of times, you know, the initial outreach is pretty similar prospect to prospect that comes in, but once there's a reply that happens, you know, or some type of actual connection, that's when automation might become a little bit more difficult, because now you've had that connection, and you want to move forward with that context. And so oftentimes what we do with automation is that initial introduction or outreach can be an automated process. And we have a software called HubSpot that we use to actually implement and and execute a lot of these automated actions. It appears that it's coming from your inbox. It looks like, you know, this membership director is is emailing me directly. We can add, what HubSpot calls personalization, where you can actually fill in people's first name or some other information that you might have about them. So it really does look like a personal touchpoint. [00:08:39] Ed Heil: [00:08:41] So let's I'll just say let's dive into that really quickly though, so we can talk about that, that initial engagement. So let's swap out, this automation process to what, you know, for what, membership directors might be doing today. So I am interested in joining the club. I'd go to the membership page and they say, you know, there's a form that says, hey, tell us about yourself. I feel that that, or if you're interested in membership, you know, fill out this form. Right. So I fill it out today, the membership director gets it, you know, and they she replies back to me with you in many cases with membership information, with pricing and everything. And that's done manually. That person actually stops the what does it look like in that automated world? I fill out the form. Then what happens using HubSpot that you mentioned? Kevin Page: [00:09:36] Yeah. So oftentimes we'll have, you know, some type of or nice design, esthetic marketing email that would go immediately following the form submission. Thanks so much for doing that. We'll have a member of our team reach out. We've just learned over the years that that's just a really important confirmation and touch point to ensure that that information has been received and that we're working on it. What we don't try to do is send a personalized outreach email immediately following a form submission. Right. That looks very automated. We kind of want to create that artificial gap between that form submission and when someone might want to reach out. And clubs are different on that approach. Ed Heil: [00:10:22] So you can actually set that time right. What you're saying so that it actually feels more natural, not like, hey, I just hit send on my form and next thing you know, in my inbox, I've got a hey, thanks for your interest. So again, what you're saying, I think, is depending on your club and how you feel about that stuff, you could make it, what, 24 hours? You can make it, two hours. You can make it 20 minutes. Is that right? Kevin Page: [00:10:46] That's right. Yeah. And a lot of that is how maybe exclusive you want to appear or if you, you know, are on a wait list and want to kind of create this sense of, you know, we'll get to it when we can. We're really busy or yeah, we're on top of it. An our after that form submission comes in, there's an automated email going out that looks like it's coming from the membership directors, inbox or email. Ed Heil: [00:11:12] So, the whole idea of being able to schedule, you know, how much time elapses between when someone submits that form and gets the email is, you know, can create that sense of where a lot of people feel a lot of, you know, membership directors that I speak with at least, are, you know, afraid that it's going to feel too needy. And like you said, you know, it can make it look like, you know, we're not in a big hurry here. We will get back to you on our time. The one thing that I do think is sort of important to think of is that a lot of times when we're filling out those forms, we expect to get that information fairly soon. I mean, that's just one of those things. I think that based on your club and how you handle things, you might want to look at it differently. But one of the other things I know you've you've seen a lot of success with Kevin in your work. Is also when that email goes out that thank you for submitting or for your interest in our club to then also provide whatever PDF for downloadable brochure or if you want to call it that, that you typically send to someone to include it with that email. Is that best practice, do you think? Kevin Page: [00:12:24] Yes, I do, and it might be easiest to look at that as like a marketing email versus a sales email, if you will. In a marketing email, has that more designed email look might be from membership at your club.com or some type of inbox like that. And it's thanks so much for submitting the form. Here's what you're here's the information you requested. Our team will be in touch shortly. That goes right away following the form submission. And in some cases, depending on how your website might be formatted, when they click that submit form, they could actually be taken to a web page or given that link right there, in that experience as well. But either way, give them that information right away would would be a best practice. But then to have that personalized follow up, come from you soon after, is something that we've found a lot of success in as well. And again, that's, that's really up to you on the cadence. You're probably right now grabbing those form submissions, you know, or a lot of people and copying and pasting some type of message in there anyway. And this automation is just trying to remove that, unnecessary, tedious work from your process. Ed Heil: [00:14:15] So once someone receives that information, and let's just keep in mind that there are there are a lot of variables, right? I mean, there are a lot of different, ways to set this up. There are a lot of different things you can include and include. So what we're saying is not like this is gospel. This isn't like there's only one way to do this. And the process is really totally customizable. But from that, if if I was the person who applies to the club, I get, I'm automatically sent that information. So now I've actually sort of optimized that time of the membership director that that they get it, they get a notification, right, that I have filled out that information. What happens next? Kevin Page: [00:15:01] Yeah. So in in some cases it's, it may not even be important to send that notification to the membership director if you're automating that introductory outreach. Because what we typically try to do when we're consulting with clubs is to keep that membership director focused on people who are qualified and who may be, you know, truly interested in looking at membership. And they're getting a lot of inquiries. And these introductory emails that are being sent in an automated fashion can help to understand, okay, who's actually responding to those? And once they respond, that pops up in their inbox, just like any email would. Right. And then they pick up the conversation from there and the automation shuts off. But if that if that, visitor, that prospect doesn't reply to that message, well, then another message could go out in a few days. And another. Right to the point where you probably stop and store that person in your database to be later nurtured, but you kind of, have have work them through that introductory process. They didn't show interest. And now, you know, they're earmarked for something later down the road. Ed Heil: [00:16:14] So let's talk about that later down the road. So, if I'm just recapping what you're saying, what I'm hearing you say is that, is that the membership director might only get notified if that person reaches out again, and which really, to what you were saying earlier, helps that membership director focus on the most qualified leads. I mean, how many times, you know, we see this all the time where we've been in meetings actually with clients, and the membership director gets up and says, oh, I've got to excuse myself because I have a tour that I'm supposed to do. And then they come back five minutes later saying, oh, they are, they were qualified. And you think, wow, well, that was sort of a waste, you know, waste of time and energy and, and that sort of thing. But like what you're saying. So what happens next then? So this is where, you know, we talk about this in the lead in of the, of this episode, which is we all like lists and anyone that's doing what we do, we love to try to help a club get to a point where they have a waitlist. You love having waitlists, but what happens when it's gone? The one thing that we see quite a bit is that you've had people through the years reach out in in some cases, one of our clients I was we were talking about the other day is that's a stack of about 700 names. Like looseleaf, she, she prints out all of the the people who have applied no idea who they are. But now by people filling out the form, capturing their email addresses when they download information, you have a database that's built, that's built up, not just in the cloud. I mean, this is businesses have been I mean, you've seen this. I mean, you can shed more light on this and I can because you've worked so much with us. But database of names of people who have expressed interest, what can be done with that kind of information? I mean, within, you know, the confines of the this discussion. Kevin Page: [00:18:10] Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. You know, I mean, oftentimes we know the sort of cyclical nature of, of clubs, and the seasonality. Right. And, and when you might be making a push, you know, especially around golf or around other activities that you may have or sports or things like that, to do some type of re-engagement campaign, typically an email campaign to an audience like that. All the people who have expressed interest in the past but didn't reply to your emails or didn't take, didn't click that button to request a tour, right? They stalled out in the process after requesting information, and that's where they're stuck still. And instead of having this daunting task of, well, I have these 700 names, I guess I could start just ripping emails off to all of them. You... /episode/index/show/crushingclubmarketing/id/31040368

Why Your Club Website is the MVP of Your Membership Team [ep. 37] 02/05/2024

Why Your Club Website is the MVP of Your Membership Team [ep. 37] Websites are constantly evolving. No longer is your website an online brochure. It should be a critical part of your membership and marketing team. Remember the early days of websites? Some businesses didn’t think they even needed one. They were really basic and let’s face it, were more of a digital brochure. Lots of copy, a few pictures and of course, no video. In the early years, the idea of having a website that could drive new members, increase revenue and answer questions for members and prospective members was unheard of. It just didn’t exist. Today, people who come to your website want to know more about your amenities, your staff and mostly, they want to know about your members to see if they’ll fit in. They are looking for answers and they want them now - are you able to help them, even if it’s after hours? In this episode, Lisa Schmidtke, a seasoned website developer and designer, and I get into websites to talk about what you can do to make your website the top performing of your membership team. Episode Highlights: 2:53: Ed and Lisa discuss the missed opportunity in having website images of amenities without people. 5:03: What is organic search as it relates to a website and why that matters when it comes to getting found online. 7:39: Ed explains how most club websites are missing key pieces of information that help them get found online. 9:14: The impact of a blog on your website. 12:06: Ed and Lisa talk about how blog content can attract the next generation members who are looking for kids activities online and may not realize they can find them at your club. 14:58: Ed and Lisa talk about automating your new member inquiries. 17:22: Optimizing the time your Membership Director spends with prospective members. 23:33: Lisa talks about what progressive club leaders should think about when building a new public facing website. 27:31: Lisa and Ed talk about hidden costs and the fact that when some website developers in the club space offer "free" public facing websites, they're not really free. Podcast Transcript Ed Heil [00:00:00] Hey there, Lisa. How are you doing today? Lisa Schmidtke [00:00:03] I'm great. How are you, Ed? Ed Heil [00:00:04] I'm doing just fine, thanks. Thanks for for joining in on the fun here with Crushing Club Marketing. Lisa Schmidtke [00:00:10] Happy to be here. Ed Heil [00:00:11] All right. So in full disclosure, Lisa and I do work together. So the conversations that we're having have been had before to some degree, but to frame it up for you to just, you know, to be able to hear some some different thoughts around web design and development, you know, we thought that it might be helpful for Lisa to share her insights because Lisa, as we mentioned, has her career has been in building and designing websites and and so much more expert in this area than I am, for sure. So looking forward to the conversation today, Lisa. Lisa Schmidtke [00:00:51] Yeah, I am as well. Ed Heil [00:00:52] All right. So let's just talk a little bit about we'll just dive right into this because club websites are, you know, depends first of all, it depends on the type of club you're at. We recognize the fact that there are some clubs and there's very few, but there are, you know, the elite clubs in this country that really don't need to worry about this. I mean, in my opinion, I think in I think you would agree that all clubs really should think about how they're presenting themselves online these days, because it's an opportunity to show your club off and your space, your membership to some degree. But recognizing this might not be a priority for some clubs or for the vast majority of other clubs. How they look and come across online is pretty important. Lisa Schmidtke [00:01:37] Yeah. Yeah. I would agree. In just like you said, even if they're not using it as a marketing tool or a lead generation tool, you know, inevitably somebody, one of their members may be a guest of a member is going to go to access the website. And, you know, it's got to reflect the vision and the professionalism of the course. Ed Heil [00:02:00] Yeah. And so when we talk about websites and the conversations that we have with club leaders, so often they go to the functionality of the back end and there are some very strong developers of the back end experience for for members and they're getting better and better. And that member experience in the back end is getting better and better. Well, we're going to talk about today is really that front end that what we always refer to internally is the public face and that part of your website where when I'm searching your club and I find you that side of the website, that is where we're going to spend most of our time today. And so let's just start with there. Like why does that matter? Why? Why are we spending time today talking about the importance of that side of the website? Lisa Schmidtke [00:02:53] Yeah, you know, I say it's because, you know, as far as the private the member side, as we call it, you know, that the software that most people are using do do a fine job of of allowing people to make a tee time and sign up for dinner reservations and, you know, things like that. But and most of that functionality people are getting from their their app anyway. But really with the front with, the front facing side since the members are really just looking to come to the website, do what they need to do, log in and move on. If they go to the website at all, the the majority of the websites should be focused on on the front facing and and by that I mean the copy, the graphics, the design should, should be designed so that prospects can actually see themselves at the, at the club and envision what it would be like to be a member there. Ed Heil [00:03:46] Yeah. And as I was saying, you know, in the in the intro to our conversation, today's, you know, in talking to so many club leaders through the years in fact there's there's one at one of my CMAA workshops we use one of the clubs as the organizer of the, the host of the event I should say, we use his club as an example in a lot of beautiful spaces, a lot of beautiful amenities, but no people at all. And which is really, I think, you know, is that that's one of the biggest mistakes that we probably see out there, isn't it? Lisa Schmidtke [00:04:24] Yeah, absolutely. I mean, you know, because what happens in is the photos often look like stock photography. People can't even tell if it's really a photo of the club or not. And then back to what I said, it's really hard for a person to envision and see what it would be like using that pool, playing that course, if there are no people on the course and in the pool. Ed Heil [00:04:45] Right. Everyone wants to be able to look at that and go, Can I see myself there? Can I see my family there? Right. And if it's stock imagery, let's face it, stock images look like stock images. I mean, they look kind of hokey, right? I mean, there's some. They're better than others, but for the most part, kind of hokey. Lisa Schmidtke [00:05:02] Yeah, for sure. Ed Heil [00:05:03] All right. From the back. From a development perspective, let's just talk about that. You know, as far as, you know, and you've been you've seen the back end some, you know, some club websites today, they're missing certain elements that would enhance organic search. Can you just talk about what is organic search? Why does it matter and what, what's missing? Lisa Schmidtke [00:05:29] Yep. Yeah. So organic search, you know, that that is, you know, not to be too elementary here, but that is, you know, somebody puts a keyword into the search engine. There are paid ad results below that and on on pages beyond the first page there are organic. So the goal really should be to try to rank as high as you can organically so that you don't have to well, number one, so that you start showing up at all. And number two, that you don't have to then do paid ad strategies. You know, there are a number of of coding practices that a platform should adhere to that backend code, that metadata all important. But, you know, I would say that the web building tools should just automatically be optimized for that. You know, you shouldn't have to work around or spend a lot of time trying to get your code to be up to par for search engines. So that should be a given. And we find that a lot of clubs, software that, you know, that are used for these private club side of of the of their websites, even those are not really built to be optimized for that's a lot of messy code lots going on they're hard to update. So just getting a website on a platform that's just there code and back in is optimized is step one. Really is everything you do beyond that, the and the key to then being ranking high in search engines is to providing valuable educational content on a consistent basis. And that doesn't mean adding a bunch of web pages or spamming it with keywords know a very effective tool for that. And in our world is blogging and with the, you know, blogging, that is how clubs can really help to seed new members in a more detailed way. So not just photos, not just a web page, but information, detailed information highlighting members and staff is a is a really effective tool for that as well. Ed Heil [00:07:39] All right. I want to go I want to dive a little bit deeper into blogging in a minute, because in the workshops that I've done that always comes up is like because storytelling always ends up with like, well, how should we do it or should it go? And blogging is is one of those vehicles. And we could probably spend a whole other podcast talking about that as well, as well as organic versus paid search and all of us. But anyway, I don't want to complicate it. I do want to just if you're listening to Lisa and you're going, well, code, what is that? And metadata and stuff like that. Just, I do want to try to provide some explanation of that that's not going to go too in-depth. And let me just take a quick crack at at least until or I'm screwed up. Websites are usually built with their, you know, code. Right. And we think about that. And sometimes there's words that go into the back end of the website that tells like, Google. When we talk about search engines, Google is a search engine. Yahoo is a search engine, Right? So there are certain words that go into a website or that should go into the back end of a website that automatically tells search engines certain things about your website, right, like content or what you do or things like that. So we talk about coding, we talk about organic search. We want your website to perform in a way or all web sites to perform in a way so that when people are looking for certain things, whether it's golf courses, tennis facilities, things like that, that your site organically comes up. How do I do? Lisa Schmidtke [00:09:12] That's perfect. Great job. Ed Heil [00:09:14] Oh, thank you. Thank you for that. So so just with that as a backdrop, so let's just let's dive into the blogging and organic search thing for a minute here so we can just, you know, hopefully provide some ,some clarity around that because people will say sometimes, like one of the questions I always get Lisa's like, well, when people come to our website, who's how will they find our blog? Yeah, right. Like, that's a common the common thing. So what do you say to that? Lisa Schmidtke [00:09:44] Yeah, I mean, certainly it should be, you know, promoted all over the website. You know, sometimes we use "pop ups" to say, subscribe to our blog. It should be featured on the homepage. But, you know, a lot of times depending on the topic, search engines like Google, will, will even show the blog before they show your homepage or another page on your website. So if it provides enough information that that user is looking for, it's likely to show up. Ed Heil [00:10:14] Yeah. And so that's why it's such a great differentiation, differentiation to make, because what people forget sometimes is that a lot of website visitors find a website not through the homepage or if you think about it as your house, not through the front door, but through a side door, which is a blog. So there's a term that I love in and some of the analytics we see, which is entrances, right? Like visits and entrances. And sometimes an entrance is like, how did they enter into that website? And a lot of times like you're saying, they're their biggest their most entrances are coming through a blog post that someone has written. Lisa Schmidtke [00:10:54] Yeah, exactly. Especially if that blog is then also promoted through social media. So if there is a Facebook post or an Instagram post or something like that that says, hey, you know, here's some information about our club, we just wrote this blog, go read it. Sometimes the social media post will show up on Google before the blog itself, before a Web page, you know, so it's also important to, you know, not just write the blog, not just post the blog, but really promote it. Ed Heil [00:11:24] Right. So hopefully you're you know, if you're listening, this is this is starting to make some sense to you. And if you just think about it from how you might search for information and what you find, like a lot of times people will say, they say it less now, but they said all the times, like I don't read blogs, you know, like, actually you probably do, but you just don't realize you're reading a blog, right? I mean, it's like, oh, I was just searching for this and I found this great article, right? Yeah. And it's really a blog. And a blog is really just Yeah. I mean, again, correct me if I'm wrong. It's really just another page on your website, is that right? Lisa Schmidtke [00:11:59] Yes. Yep. That's a way. It's just it's just indexed and promoted in just a different way. Ed Heil [00:12:06] Okay. So I do want to just go one step deeper on this now that we have this idea of blogging, because what a lot of people says, like, well, what are we going to write that people will find? Or this is maybe that next level question, right? And so what I want you to think about, if you're listening, is today's member or that 42 year old member that you hear a lot of people talking about. And by the way, there is, you know, the greatest transfer of wealth in history will happen in the next, you know, next ten years or I think by 2045, they're saying will be the greatest transition of wealth in history. So there will be young people with discretionary income to spend and they are going to go online to look for a lot of information that may or may not have anything to do with your club. So what I think of is sometimes, Lisa, I'll go, well, you know what? They're going to be looking for things like activities for their kids. At what age should I get my child involved in sports? When should they start taking swimming lessons? How to become a competitive swimmer. Right. What age should I start my child playing golf? And imagine if those people who are searching for those four answers to those questions, if they find blogs that your club has written, then all of a sudden you're coming up on their radar. They might be thinking of a totally different experience for their family, but they come across your website. Lisa Schmidtke [00:13:35] Yeah. And by the way, they don't want to pick up the phone and call you and they don't want to, you know, wait for information. They want this information, especially the younger generation, right away at their fingertips. If they have to pick up the phone, that's a barrier to entry. They won't do it. Ed Heil [00:13:49] Right. And, you know, it's funny. I'm glad you said that, because what's, if you think about that a little bit more, you know, we'll talk about that target member prospect who knows like, well they don't do this and they won't do that. But what you really need to do is think about yourself. Right? It's like I don't, I don't shop or look for things, especially like things like a private club membership between eight and five. You know, it's at night and it's on the weekends, and it's when I have the time to do it. And you're into your point is like, I want the information when I want it, not when you're available for it. And you can you can argue the fact that, it's like, well, that's not the type of club we are. And and that's fine. And some people will, well, you know, be okay with that, but some people may not and they'll move on to the next club in your in your market. Lisa Schmidtke [00:14:42] Yeah that's right. You know, or it'll just take them longer to become a member or become your prospect. So you know, it's getting them in the door as soon as you can and providing the information as quick as they can. Ed Heil [00:14:58] Right. Okay. So just. Really quickly recapping because we're going to move on to that. Next thing that we're talking about is that people don't want to wait until you're in the office on Monday or Tuesday because you're closed on Monday or whatever. So the idea that the front end of your website or the public facing part is really important, and that with that, that part of your website, you can leverage that so that more people find you through organic search. Or when they go to your website, they can find more information that is sometimes in the form of a blog, and blogs are helpful for helping you get found for certain things. They answer questions and it's helpful information, and it also tells search engines that you are known for or an expert in some of these areas or these topic areas. So I just want to make sure everyone's everyone's staying with us here because, you know, ultimately, if we can provide people more information so they can determine whether or not the club is right for them because you've given them so much information that should make your the life of your membership director a little bit easier. Right, Because people will self-select out. But what they're going to do and we know this and this is the next part that, you know, is is part of this whole evaluation of your website is really, you know, having the information that your prospective members need. And I'm sorry that your prospective members want when they come to your website. A lot of times today, you, you know, websites, club websites, you guys have contact forms and people will fill that out, which is great. And what I usually hear is that, yes, someone fills out a contact form we receive at the membership office and then I send a letter to that person or an email with membership information, and I'll usually ask and I'll say, Do you call them first? Do you try to qualify them before you send that membership information? People nine out of ten times say, No, I just get it and I just send them because that's what they want. They want the membership information. So it takes some time. The person has to wait to get what they want. You know, your membership person has to take the time to send that email. Even if it's a copy and paste, they still have to take the time to do that. What's a better way to to make that happen? Lisa Schmidtke [00:17:22] Yeah. So I think you need to have, you know, sections of your website that, number one, they're gathering information along the way. And so these might be people who are not ready to reach out and become a member. They might not even be ready to receive pricing and all the information that they need. But there are certain pieces of content that websites and clubs can offer for those just kicking the tires. And maybe these are people who are not qualified quite yet to be a member of your club. Maybe they're looking for more or less or something different. So like you said, you want to allow those people to kind of opt out, know that themselves if they're not ready, and then the membership structure doesn't have too to waste time for that. But for some items like pricing and... /episode/index/show/crushingclubmarketing/id/29720013

Managing Shifting Demographics in Private Clubs - John Schultz, CEO of Club Leadership Alliance 02/02/2024

Managing Shifting Demographics in Private Clubs - John Schultz, CEO of Club Leadership Alliance John Schultz, CEO of Club Leadership Alliance, has been around the block - a bunch of times! Prior to his current role, he was the GM for over 20 years at Carmel Country Club in Charlotte, North Carolina. Taking over a club with financial challenges, he put his flywheel in motion and turned the club around with more than 60 million dollars in capital improvements in 2 decades. Balancing the shifting demographics of new, younger members with longstanding members, facilitating town hall discussions, managing the conflict and debate that goes with member assessments and day to day communication challenges that are hand-in-hand with running a club, Schultz has done it all. John Schultz built his career at Carmel Country Club with more than 20 years of service AFTER doing 9 years of military service as a United States Marine. There were probably some days as a Staff Sergeant in the Marines that were easier than his days as a General Manager, but that’s another story! Needless to say, when you stay in one place for over 20 years, you did a lot of things right and you also dealt with a lot of change. Today, John Schultz is the CEO of the Club Leadership Alliance which is a collaborative effort between The McMahon Group, Club Benchmarking and Kopplin, Kuelber and Wallace. Their mission is to aggregate the best practices they’ve seen from the hundreds of clubs that they work with and then help clubs take advantage of the knowledge they have gleaned. What better guest could we have for an episode on change management and managing shifting club demographics and dynamics? Episode Notes 4:29 - John talks about taking over a club that was experiencing financial distress early in his career. 9:03 - John talks about how he approached relationships with the board. 11:18 - John talks about how the "Flywheel Approach" started to help grow the club with the right members. 13:00 - John shares his most challenging initiative and how he handled it. 15:47 - Building trust again is difficulty. John talks about how he approached it while at Carmel CC. 22:02 - Member unrest led to some tense times in his leadership and John talks about how he handled a group of members who opposed the club's direction. 26:29 - In 2016 the member demographics began to change at Carmel and he talks about how he handled the influx of younger members with the established legacy members. 30:31 - Words of wisdom from John on how to handle bridging the generation gap between members. Episode Transcript Ed Heil [00:00:01] You are listening to Crush and Club Marketing, a podcast for progressive club leaders ready to increase their club's revenue. Time for change begins right now. John Schultz, CEO of the Club Leadership Alliance, has been around the block. Prior to his current role, he was the GM for over 20 years at Carmel Country Club in Charlotte, North Carolina, taking over a club with financial challenges. He put his flywheel emotion and turned the club around with more than $60 million in capital improvements in two decades. In this episode, John Schultz shares his stories of change management, navigating, shifting club demographics, member assessments and of course, member conflict. Balancing the evolving needs and goals of private clubs, including the shifting demographics of new, younger members with long standing members, town halls, conflict and debate that goes with assessments and day to day communication challenges that frankly, just go hand in hand with running or leading any business, including clubs, are endless, all you club leaders know. Our guest in this episode, John Schultz, has been there and done that. He built his career at Carmel Country Club with more than 20 years of service, after doing nine years of military service, which I'm sure there were some days in the Marines that might have been easier than his days as a GM, but that's probably another story for another podcast. Needless to say, when you stay in one place for over two decades, you do a lot of things right, and you also had to deal with a lot of change. Today, Schultz is the CEO of the Club Leadership Alliance, and it is a collaborative effort between The McMahon Group, Club Benchmarking and Kaplan, Keebler, and Wallace. Their mission is to aggregate the best practices they've seen from the hundreds of clubs that they work with, and then help clubs take advantage of the knowledge they have gleaned. What better guest could we have for an episode on change management and managing shifting club demographics and dynamics? Thanks so much for joining me today. John Schultz [00:02:13] Glad to be here. Appreciate being invited. Ed Heil [00:02:15] Well, this is a I know this is an important topic for a lot of people. Leadership positions at clubs, and and man, with your your history at Carmel Country Club for almost 20 years. I guess the first question I have for you is, what is the key to making a long run like that at one place? John Schultz [00:02:37] Yeah, 20 years is quite a while. And. And it's not like I had one plan going in and trying to move through and only executed to this one set of objectives and priorities. It's constantly moving. It's constantly changing. It's listening and seeing what's going on. It's feeling where the industry's going, what what people and members are looking for and the experience that they that they want from their club. And and that changed in many times through the dynamic. When I, when I first got to Carmel, they were in financial distress and the membership was, sliding. There was some debt and we really had to analyze where the club needed to go and and take advantage of those things. But also it changes, and about every five years we would take a new look out to to the future and see what was what were the opportunities and how could we, take advantage of where we were in the Charlotte market and, and what would make people, the most satisfied and, and engage at their club. Ed Heil [00:03:48] This kind of reminds me of a conversation I had with John McFadden, last year from the Union League, Philadelphia, where he came into a club that was, you know, a little financially distressed, and, and hearing what you're saying, there's a the two words that came into my mind are brave leadership. And, you know, can you just talk about what that was like to walk into a situation where you're relatively new, unproven, and you're going to lead out of this, you know, kind of challenging times? Can you maybe just speak to what the mindset is and what it was within you that that gave you that ability to do that? John Schultz [00:04:29] Sure. And Jeff is an inspiration to all of us and a, you know, visionary that jumps out there. And, and I hope to just be a portion of that. So, you know, when you look at the opportunities and the areas and what you can get done in a reasonably, financial responsible way and, and see where the club's going, I tend to look not necessarily, at the clubs next door and what, what they're doing, in our backyard because you get too homogenous when, you're only staying within that, constraint. And what are what are the resorts doing? What are the hotels doing? What are people doing? And the better restaurants and, and that kind of thing. So looking for those opportunities outside just "clubdom". And I have to admit I stole many, many ideas from many clubs around and repurpose them. And, and put my name on it and took credit for it and and and enjoyed the success from some of those. But it was outside the industry that really brings more opportunity. And, you know, the hotels resorts tend to be further ahead of us, and many in the Florida market, of clubs have to be more progressive in, in what they're providing. The competition is, much more, tighter down that way. So, so if you look at those areas and seek out what, what is going to be the next, the next big thing and, and try to take advantage of those and be on the front end. Carmel, was more open to, being progressive in the space because we weren't as traditional and we weren't as classic as some of the other clubs around. So we had the opportunity to take advantage of that, be a little risky and not a lot of risk, but some that would allow us to build, the, the, resort style pool and have social, engagement that was not typical. And so that social thing is really the first initial, area that I started at Carmel was to take advantage of the events and club functions and expand those things so that the, the members that lived around the, the club felt like that was their outlet. And to build that up was really our first, issue. We couldn't build anything because we had debt. So, I was able to really get the momentum going and it became their home away from home, as everyone likes to say. And the membership growth started, when we announced the pool, the year we announced the pool, put out the pretty drawings with the, you know, the tiki bars and all the rest of it, we brought in 131 new members, and paid for the pool in. Just the one year, of initiation. Ed Heil [00:07:39] What year was that? John Schultz [00:07:40] That was 2008. Okay. And so, right. Ed Heil [00:07:43] Before the the downturn. Yeah. John Schultz [00:07:45] Well, this was seven eight. Yeah. And then that roll that that success then rolled into the next big thing. So we proved that we could pay for it. We got out of debt. We, paid off the pool. And then we started the next big thing, which was in 2009, which at Carmel, a 36 hole facility allowed us to renovate the South course. Rees Jones came in and we did a 10 million, a $10 million renovation right in the middle of that disaster recession that we went through, and in 2009 and ten and came right out of that, paid that off, the growth, came after it, and it allowed us to roll right into the next big thing. Ed Heil [00:08:33] So that really I want to come back to the next big thing, though. But just to frame this up a little bit, what I always think for, for GM's is how they relate with the board. Right? And having that sort of like a relationship that provides a GM to be visionary sometimes to execute on on big ideas, the next big thing. How would you describe your relationship over the 20 years with the board at Carmel? John Schultz [00:09:03] Well, it's got to be a partnership because, there's not many. There's a few GM's that are making these decisions on their own. I'm not sure they're any. And we have to legislate up to, board members and the membership as a total in in are these good ideas and are they going to be successful and what is what's the outcome going to be? There's a there's a, Jim Collins, chapter. In "Good to Great" that's that he's written recently on social, sectors and in this, chapter, he talks about ledgers that that nonprofit, GM CEOs, have to legislate these decisions. We can't just make the decision. We have to provide that information and persuade the decision makers. And it's really a great, book or chapter to about 60 pages. I'd recommend it highly. And the other one, I'm not to be a Jim Collins, just, fan here, but. Ed Heil [00:10:08] I'm a fan. John Schultz [00:10:08] It's called The Flywheel Approach, and in there it talks about how I'm saying this next big thing, you, as you go around in a circle and you have a vision and you, and you act on it, it allows that, flywheel to spin. And the faster you can get the flywheel to spin, you get more and more done. And in turn, the confidence, grows, the momentum grows, and the membership has trust and faith in where you're going. I can tell you there was not a lot of people were not necessarily, at Carmel or saying, oh, the thing we need next is a swimming pool, right. But a golf club, with 36 holes. And the board, unanimously jumped in on this idea because it it was the next big thing that really allowed us to be successful. Ed Heil [00:11:03] And that sounds like what you were describing earlier. I mean, before I interrupted you was just really that flywheel, like you got that thing going and people started. I'm assuming the membership trusted you more. They believed in you. They got it, you know, got behind what was happening. Is that kind of what happened? John Schultz [00:11:18] That's right. And and then they invite their friends out to the pool. They invite them to social events. And the the more the community started engaging and seeing the animation and the fun and the, lifestyle that was happening, that was that was part of, the community. It allowed them it would create that demand, and they would then, of course, join the club. And and now there's a waiting list of almost 200, people on the waiting list, which is partially, you know, yes, it's Carmel, but it's also just the life, style that's, that's out there right now from the, pandemic. Ed Heil [00:11:57] And you had mentioned in a previous conversation that in your time there, and correct me if I'm wrong, you did 60 million in capital projects. Is that right? John Schultz [00:12:05] We did. Yep. And no assessments. All of that was initiation fee growth. Combined with, you know, operations were always, in the, in the black. And so we would fund capital improvements, and maintenance capital and all of those things. And I would be, remiss in not mentioning, you know, our net worth over time increased at one of the highest levels across the country and recognized as one of the better growth patterns. It was consistently going up and adding net worth. Over that time. Wow. And just a little bit there. We never missed a budget. Inside of that, 20 years. Wow. Good. Ed Heil [00:12:50] That's awesome. What was your most challenging initiative that you that you put out there that, that required the most, maybe, arm wrestling? John Schultz [00:13:00] Yeah, it was probably that, it was it probably came into the the 2009, golf course renovation just because of the timing and the uncertainty with the recession and, that kind of thing. And, and it and it created some dissension that didn't really come out in, in holding up the project or delaying it or changing it at all. It just created, it was at the time when, corporate atmosphere out in the, in the world was question everything, and communication and transparency was not really one of our best, skills at that time. And we learned from that. And, and found that being more, transparent and, and the entire industry moved in that direction and corporate world had moved in that way to just being, more open about what things are going on behind the scenes. And, and I, we really focused on that following that, situation, we kind of had a, uprising within the membership, and a couple of board members got voted on by petition, and, and it and it created just, you know, there was a blip there and just, satisfaction level, but it was, mostly tied to a lack of communication and transparency at the time. Ed Heil [00:14:28] Interesting. I mean, that alone. So in the spirit of just, of, managing conflict, I mean, that is one of those moments. How did you handled that? Like with the membership, too? Because, I mean, you you know, that that can you know, what we says in the absence of information, people always go to the worst place. They make up their own mind and they go to the worst place. But and to recover from that can be hard. Like we we used to talk to our kids about the trust board, you know, say you put a little in, you earn this trust. And what just takes one second to lose it all. So how do you get back on track? John Schultz [00:15:00] Yeah. So, so this was one of those moments in time where you had to take that introspective look we had done right about the time we, we did a membership survey, and, and this is one of those member satisfaction surveys that gets down into the most granular level. And one of the questions, or five questions in there was what do you think of the game? And so coming out of that survey, I out of a ten point scale, my number was 6.9. Okay. For those of you out there that, apply that to a, you know, a, a grade scale, that would be a D plus. For somebody who's this. Ed Heil [00:15:46] Close to a C, though. Yeah. John Schultz [00:15:47] Well, you know, that was my average in most of my schooling, but. And what? It was just a negative group out there just, wanting to pillage and burn and that kind of thing at the time. But it did make us have to say. All right. I was on the cover of magazines at the time, and there were a lot of things going on, and I had to say introspectively. What's that about? But it's what the members thought. So I had it was that point of inflection to say, you know, I need to respond to this. And we did, and it really allowed the club and it's kind of what has made me what I'm doing today in the governance area is to find the, and set out the roles and responsibilities, set objectives, and create clear lines of responsibility within the leadership of the club management committees, board. And it allowed us to grow that process to where we're setting objectives. Were establishing, long range plans. So everybody knew what we were doing. And we were then communicating that and using that as the means to which to share with the membership why we're doing what we're doing. And and it allowed us to really build on, those, things that, advanced the club and the leadership to where the trust became even greater. And so that, that that lesson allowed the communication, transparency and advancing, governance to the point where, Carmel was recognized as having one of the best governance, board policy manuals and processes and systems that is around. Ed Heil [00:17:42] You're right. Got it. It's interesting. The, you can take that experience and sort of parlay that into turning it really into a positive, which is what you guys did. But, you know, I hate to I don't want to get overly granular here, but for some people who might sit there and go, well, but how did you do like when you would you tried to say, hey, we we made a mistake. We should have been more transparent about this. They how did you do that? Did you do it like in an email blast that went out to everyone? Because that's the first step. The rest is how you do everything after that. But what's that first step look like? John Schultz [00:18:16] Yeah, it and this tends to be, how most of us operate with doing the newsletter. You know, the newsletter is due on the 10th. And by the and that's the day everybody starts doing the newsletter and then, you know, all the different communication pieces, whether it's the website, social media or wherever it is, we're always in our reach. I say we, are always but it tends to be reactive. We need to respond to this instead. Let's get proactive and. Yeah, and at the time, my communications director, came up with the idea that let's get ahead of it, and, let's put together a calendar of 12 months and let's go ahead and figure out what the topics are that we're going to share with the membership. Every year we get the same comment from, the members that there's no grass on the fairways. You just cut it down and burned it to the ground every spring. Well, it's because the leaf blade drops all of it, the grass drops all of its leaves, and there's nothing but a stock left. It happens every year. It's the same grass. That's how Bermuda grass acts. And so we would get these complaints. Let's go ahead and answer the question in advance. So we took the opportunity. And it's 12 months based on each department. And every department has a different set of things that they're going to then talk about, and share with the membership.... /episode/index/show/crushingclubmarketing/id/29777648

Private Club Success in a Post-Pandemic World: Frank Vain CEO of the McMahon Group 12/08/2023

Private Club Success in a Post-Pandemic World: Frank Vain CEO of the McMahon Group The private club industry enjoys a steady resurgence, with waitlists becoming the norm in markets across the U.S. Furthermore, experts predict the greatest generational wealth transfer in history, from Boomers to Gen X and Millennials, by 2045. So, how will this new generation spend its time and money? Frank Vain, CEO of the McMahon Group, joins us this episode to share his perspective on the future of private clubs, and what he believes will be critical for their continued success. Vain's perspective is unique. As the leader of the McMahon Group, he works with club leaders nationwide, surveys members, creates long-range strategic plans, and provides counsel. Therefore, he has a pulse on the industry and insightful thoughts on what clubs are, and should be, considering as they plan for the future. Generational experts will tell you that Gen X, Y, and Z value very different things than Boomers, and they measure their status and identity in distinct ways. How clubs adjust to these various demographics could be the difference between continued success and failure. The make-up of future club members is changing, and club leaders are struggling to keep longtime members happy while attracting new, younger ones. This balancing act involves many factors, and Frank Vain and his team at The McMahon Group help each club discover the right approach -- because, as we know, all clubs are unique! Key Moments The "Golden Years" of private clubs - 2:57 The pandemic is the best thing that happened for private clubs - 6:25 The target demographic in the "Golden Age" - 15:43 What clubs need to do differently to attract younger members - 20:36 In what areas are clubs investing? - 25:03 What successful clubs can do to stay healthy - 37:00 Podcast Transcript Ed Heil [00:00:00] You're listening to Crushing Club Marketing, a podcast for progressive club leaders looking to increase their club's revenue. Time for Change begins right now. Ed Heil [00:00:12] The private club industry continues to enjoy a resurgence, with waitlists becoming the norm in markets around the U.S.. On top of that, experts predict the greatest generational wealth transfer in history from boomers to Gen X and millennials by 2045. So how will this new generation choose to spend their money and time? Frank Vain, CEO of the McMahon Group, joins me today and shares his perspective on the future of private clubs and what he believes will be critical to the continued success of private clubs in the future. Ed Heil [00:00:44] Thanks for listening. So, Frank Vain has a unique perspective as the leader of the McMahon Group. He works with club leaders across the country. Surveying members, creates long range strategic plans for clubs and provides his counsel, his advice is experience to club leaders so that clubs can make the best decisions for their clubs. He has a pulse on the industry and a perspective on what clubs are doing and what they probably should be doing as they plan into the future. And generational experts will tell you that the values of Gen Xers, Gen Y, Gen Z was totally different than the values of Boomers. And they'll also explain to you how they measure their success or their status or credibility in a totally different way. So for Boomers, where a country club is totally, you know, status type thing, it is not really the case necessarily for Gen X, Y and Z peers. In fact, they're more concerned and more interested in experiential type of engagements than they are things like club memberships. So the landscape of future club members is changing. And yet club leaders today who are typically a little bit older are trying to figure out how to balance keeping longtime members happy while attracting young, newer numbers or new younger members, if you will. There are so many factors in this balancing act to consider, and Frank and his team at the McMann Group are helping to figure out what is right for each club. Because, as we all know, all clubs are different. So here's my conversation with Frank Vain. Well, Frank, thanks so much for joining me today. Frank McMahon [00:02:36] Well, great to be here. Thanks for having me. Ed Heil [00:02:38] Yeah. So, boy, a lot to cover today. And in what you have called the golden age of clubs or some variation. Sorry, I don't have that, but the golden age of clubs, I guess. Let's start there. What? When you talk about that, what does that mean? Frank McMahon [00:02:57] Well, I think, you know, it's a combination of things. I mean, in one way, it signifies that we're a little bit out of the wilderness. And in a way, you know, certainly, you know, the financial the Great Recession, 2009, 10, 11 were, you know, pretty tough period, a very tough period for clubs. And and they came back in sort of fits and starts after that. So you had really a good, gosh, 10 or 15 years there of some pretty challenging environment for for most clubs. And then, you know, and so the golden age and saying, you know what I'm trying to signify and that is that while it is an industry that that is subject to to ups and downs over time, we've seen that in the past. I think there is more here. There's a combination of things happening that that are more enduring. And so the golden age signifying that there was a convergence of sort of lifestyle, really a lot of that triggered by the pandemic was certainly a big part of it. There's innovation, whether spurred by the pandemic or other factors. Clubs have really changed quite a bit over the last several years. And then there's demographics. The demographics have turned in their favor where, you know, particularly the millennials now are at the age where club membership makes social and financial sense for them. So that whole golden age is meant to say, yeah, you know, things go up and down. And obviously if there's another major economic break like we saw in 2008, you know, sort of all bets are off, you know, But but really, that doesn't see any sign of that happening in that with with all these things converging at one time. It really ought to be something that lasts for quite a while. And I would say it's, you know, six, seven, eight, nine years you can look out there and all these factors seem to be playing into their favor. Ed Heil [00:05:05] So maybe if we can put some of that in context within you know, as you started, you go back several years and the industry is in a pretty constant decline up until the pandemic. Is that right? Frank McMahon [00:05:22] Yes. Yeah. Really over over the course. And I say 2008 or 9 there, but really over the course of a good, you know, 20 year period of time. Number of clubs declined, number of golfers, if you're a club with golf, you know a number of golfers in the US declining for a long period of time, particularly among younger people. You know, you certainly saw the number of clubs went out of business about 20 to 25% of. And we're tend to follow what I would call the, you know, the member owned club. You know, there are other quasi commercial entities and semi-private kind of things that are in there. But when you think about the sort of the traditional member owned club, they all their numbers were down. So yeah, I think by every metric you could say it was a I would say they were out in the wilderness for, for quite a while. Yeah. Ed Heil [00:06:15] And then I've heard you say that the pandemic is the single best thing that has happened to private clubs. Is that, in what way? Well said. Frank McMahon [00:06:25] Well, it really again, it's a it's a bit of a combination of things, but I think at its core, it just it it made evident their their value. Why do I why do I want to belong to a club? And so whether it was for access to services otherwise difficult to come from come by or, you know, sort of their personalized service or dealing with an a, a, a group of known parties, if you will. Right. That all of a sudden smaller was better, more intimate and privacy was better. People were nervous about sort of being out in the public. We were cautioned about you know, cautioned about that. So, you know, a lot of that, you know, just really expose that, well, hey, a club is more than access to a golf course or a swimming pool or whatever. It's it's a community. It's a collective group of of of people. There's an approval process. There's a, you know, a communications process and a whole sense of community around that where we were all searching for that, right. Or going Covid as that was suddenly yanked away from us in many ways and, you know, cautioned about going outside or traveling on an airplane or going to a meeting or going to a restaurant club, stood out as a bit of a beacon during that period. So while I could still enjoy a lot of those things, but also do it in a way where I felt a little a little more comfortable because even though those members could have been susceptible to the same disease as everybody else was, there was just sort of a sense that you're a member and a kind of of that extension of family almost, as opposed to something worse, you know, completely out there in the public. Ed Heil [00:08:16] In some ways. Did. Do you think the pandemic reintroduced people to private clubs may be in a different way? I mean, some of the stereotypes of private clubs and private club members for so long was, you know, I mean, especially if you're a golf club with limited activity. But it seemed like through the pandemic, it brought families together and community together, like you're saying, in a way that was. In some ways more fulfilling, enriching than it was before. Frank McMahon [00:08:53] Well, I think that's right. Yeah, I think it kind of turned it on its head. Right. You you had you know, you had kind of a political and social environment of getting over that same take, that same 20 year period, 2000 to 2020, where, you know, exclusive, exclusivity was sort of judged a little more negatively. And all those things sort of, you know, you were seen as not as our exclusive exclusive access, but exclusionary, discriminatory, you know, those sorts of negative connotations assigned to it. All of a sudden it turned that on its head because it said sort of, well, hey, I get it. You know, I, I get why I would want to be part of a smaller group and then share value, share activities and experiences within that group. And so as opposed to exclusive exclusivity being seen as this this pejorative and you don't want me sort of thing, it was seen as, Oh, that's a way to build a little network there and and a group and thrive and grow even within a rather challenging environment that was going on around them. So yeah, I think it flipped that on its head and said, Well, actually there are some there are some value there to all that. And and I get it. And you know, and you saw that call because prior to that it was often interesting anyway. And once you had that negative perception about being in a club and clubs as they were struggling often had this goal, well, it's maybe it's too expensive, maybe we should do this or that. And all of a sudden it was more value. The price went away, initiation fees went up, the dues went up and all those kinds of things. And so the value perception increased dramatically and, you know, dollars and cents followed it up with that. But it was really the sense of, okay, this is this is what I want from, from a from a group. Ed Heil [00:10:59] Yeah. And as someone who consults with with private clubs and I've heard you talk about this, but it's the the innovation that occurred at the start of the pandemic. And I remember conversations that I was having with different people, and I was floored by how quickly clubs were putting things into motion, you know, you know, whether it was a little igloos that were going up, especially in some of the north courses up north or whatever they were. And, you know, their bureaucracy was gone. Things in there were innovating around family. And it was it was it was pretty remarkable. So now here we are at this point where it seems like people have been, I don't know if this is true or not, but it's almost like there's this renewed sense of value for your club and in how much you can do and what you want to get out of it. Matched with this golden age, this run now and I reading some other things about the amount of generational wealth that's going to occur in the next several years, right? So there are going to be a lot of younger people with more, you know, potentially more discretionary income that they can spend towards that. Are those all sort of the things that like, as you were saying in the beginning, are those also factors as it relates to the next 8 to 10 years? Frank McMahon [00:12:21] Well, I think so. As long as that and that sort of as you turn to the future and say, you know, and I think most of our clubs are saying right now, how do we keep it going? Right. That's a that's a good question at all club leaders should be asking. And I point out and you're you're wise to mention this whole notion of of innovation, you know, the the notion that people wanted community and privacy during Covid and, oh, yeah, I get that, right. That's a pretty easy connection. They wanted outdoor recreation. So yeah, golf boomed out, outdoor tennis boomed, all that. I think you could get there on those pretty quickly. I think the innovation piece of it often goes underreported. And and yet it was the way that clubs responded and it and it just shows and it should be a good lesson for club leaders that a lot of those things you say happened overnight, whether it was let's all of a sudden start, you know, Tuesday night tacos on the terrace or whatever or. Now building the igloos outside the great little City Club in Wilkes-Barre, Pennsylvania. The Westmoreland Club had a courtyard next to it, primarily a dining club. And all of a sudden they popped these igloos out there and people are out there in the courtyard having fun, you know? I suspect if management had gone to the board a couple of months in advance of that and say this winter we're going to try igloos outside and people are gonna dine in them, that's an idea that that dies at the boardroom table. You know, I think so. So they were there. So they were ready to respond. And, you know, I don't know, I guess somewhat some of those ideas are work and some of them won't work. But it was the fact that they were so willing to try because in many ways they were scared to death. I think many of us being included at the beginning of Covid, that was my my first reaction was, "oh my gosh, here we go again". You know, it's going to be another 2009 or 2010 and people aren't going to want to join clubs and we're going to have another raft of closures and all that. And of course, after about a 3 to 4 month period of time where all that was incubating, the future turned out to be far different. But yeah, whether, you know, clubs just took snack bars and made them in the outdoor restaurants or, you know, the igloos as we're mentioning, or put simulators or there were clubs that took they're all ballrooms, right? Because no, no more activities, no more group events. And they put, you know, simulators in the ballroom and all of a sudden people are in there hitting golf balls and having fun, you know? So, yeah, that that carried through and that that is a big takeaway is that I think that's just a lesson that there ought to be, you know, you can't reinvent the club every year, but having a healthy dose of innovation in your, you know, in your business plan and your strategic plan is extremely important. Ed Heil [00:15:17] Yeah. Let's talk about who the clubs are targeting or maybe should be targeting in this golden age. What what are you seeing and what's your. Because I think for a long time they target guys that are I'm in my late 50s you know my age maybe a little bit older. It's you know, that that's the target member. But it looks a little bit different today, doesn't it? Frank McMahon [00:15:43] Well, it does. And, you know, it's certainly a bit younger. I mean, again, you'll have the joining age versus, you know, I think the average club member nationwide still mid-fifties is you're talking, you know, 54, 55 is generally recognized as a, you know, pretty much the the profile of the average member. But the joiner, as you know, tends to be about a 42 year old couple. And a lot of joining happens age 35 to 45. And now that's again that's that's why we're very optimistic about the about this being able to continue into a golden age, that we continue to innovate and we continue to have demand for things like golf and tennis and some of these recreational activities, health and wellness. But the addressable market, so to speak, is expanding the you know, the millennials just now, the oldest, you know, where where clock the clock ever starts ticking on these demographic things. But if you just say, you know, 1980, right, then the the oldest millennial right now is 42, 43 years old. So they're getting right there and there's a whole cohort of 80 million people behind them that that suggest over the next decade, the number of people in their early 40s is on the increase. And so, you know, you just look at lifestyle in general, right? Look look at what's happening out there and, you know, housing. Right. All the demand for housing today and and schools that go along with that. You look at equity markets and the resilience and the amount of investment and capital flow that's happening there. Those all happen around a period of time where the middle age group is expanding. You can almost transport a lot of what's happening in the club world today. Back to the mid 90s, which was another good boom period for clubs. Guess what? The baby boomers were in the same position there, you know, at that point as millennials are now. And so you know so clubs should be thinking about that group and thinking about that they're ready to you know, they were very urban a decade ago. Our cities were booming and people want to live downtown. And we saw that renaissance in the American city. We're having a similar uptake now. And the American suburbs where those millennials who were 40, 42 years old had some kids. Now they got married a little later. I got married in the early 30s or so. Now they've got some six year olds and eight year olds and ten year olds, and they're ready to move to the suburbs, get to where the schools are. The. Houses with space and all those things that they need. And guess what? They need a club that helps socialize and get ingrained in the community, meet other people, meet other young families, or have outlets for those clubs where the kids are on the swim team or they're playing junior golf or, you know, just the family can go there for holiday brunches and, you know, those sorts of things. It's just right in their sweet spot. And so, yeah, I, you know, clubs ought to be targeting on and we all we think of it in a couple of ways Yeah you know you get the 6065 and over a group you're pretty set in your way at the club get that mid age group and they tend to they've got money and time. They're using the club quite actively more golf players played and things like that. And then you have the young family that's sort of 45 and under. So but that's the future, right? The older group is natural attrition. You know, they they move to Florida. Obviously the biggest thing is people get sick, they pass away or whatever they need to be replaced. And so that young group and that early 40s is is ready to come in and replace them. I think you've got a lot of people that are if we're offering the right things that they're looking for. Ed Heil [00:19:37] Right. And I think that I... /episode/index/show/crushingclubmarketing/id/28994008

A Private City Club Your Granddaughter Can Love [Ep. 34] 11/06/2023

A Private City Club Your Granddaughter Can Love [Ep. 34] In the world of City Clubs, Jeff McFadden is well known and well-respected. As the CEO of the Union League of Philadelphia he has developed a national reputation as a club leader. Ask GM's who know him and they use adjectives to describe him like "Brilliant", "Visionary" and "remarkable." In this episode, Jeff shares his involvement in transforming the Union League from a club in financial trouble generating about $7 million in annual revenue to a club that does about 100 million annually. He also shares his perspective on breaking away from old financial models and how to engage new, younger members with long-time club personalities. Is now the time to double down and invest in your club? Listen to Jeff's thoughts on that topic as well. Noteworthy Moments: Jeff talks about making the leap to the Union League - 3:45 Park it! The Union League buys a parking garage - 9:07 Building your granddaughter's club - 13:21 Thinking differently about the financial future and the "right way to run a railroad" - 15:25 Change management and getting the right people on the bus - 19:03 The city club and more. Building an investment portfolio - 25:52 How Jeff views appealing to different member demographics - 35:06 Is this the time to invest in your club? - 39:28 Episode Summary: For club leaders who feel stuck in the "same old, same old" Jeff provides a fresh take on some long time issues. He also offers some insightful thoughts around managing the issue of engaging younger new members while keeping long time members excited about the club. As the General Manager, now CEO of the Union League of Philadelphia, Jeff is gone from managing day to day operations of a city club to running a $100 million business. If you're someone hoping to create this kind of growth at your club and this type of career track for yourself, you'll appreciate Jeff McFadden's Perspective Let's Connect If you find Crushing Club Marketing helpful please share it with a friend and be sure to subscribe and rate this podcast. Also, find more information on private club marketing services from StoryTeller, If you'd like to connect with , feel free to send a request! Transcript Ed Heil: [00:00:00] You're listening to Crush and Club Marketing, a podcast for progressive club leaders looking to increase their club's revenue. Time for Change begins right now. In the world of city clubs. Jeff McFadden is well-known and well-respected as the CEO of the Union League of Philadelphia. He's developed a national reputation as a club leader, as GM's who know him and these adjectives to describe him like brilliant, visionary and remarkable. In this episode of Crushing Club Marketing, I catch up with Jeff to learn more about his involvement in building the Union League from a club in financial trouble to a club that does about 100 million in revenue annually. He calls it accidental brilliance, but there's more to it than that. [00:00:44][44.7] Ed Heil: [00:00:46] Your name has come up in so many conversations regarding just what a strong leader and visionary you are and in the work you've done at the Union League. And I know that it's difficult to talk about yourself in that way. But there was a quote that I read from Jason Straka from the Frye Straka, a global golf course design firm and Jason Straka, said Union League CEO Jeff McFadden is one of the most respected general managers associated with the golf business. He's credited with vastly expanding the Union League's social and business opportunities, knowing that many of their members on a vacation home down on the Jersey Shore and or vacation there quite a bit. Jeff saw an opportunity for a second golf facility, and obviously this is referring to one of the the golf clubs that the union now owns. But when you hear those kind of accolades, and that, what goes through your mind. [00:01:46][60.0] Jeff McFadden: [00:01:47] Well, first of all, what goes through my mind is I pay Jason, which is a good thing. And that's probably why he had those nice accolades about us. But when he and Dana Frye did at Union League, National is just over the top. It's the Disney World of golf. It's spectacular. Over the last year, 27 holes. And now we're proud. I'm very proud of what I did. I think a lot of what we've done over the last 25 years was accidental brilliance through really just perseverance, hard work, you know, trying to get the right strategy and then keeping your head down and, you know, working through what you could do and keeping a smile on your face to, you know, that's. [00:02:27][40.1] Ed Heil: [00:02:27] Yeah, well, you make it sound simple and, you know, I guess when it comes second, nature probably feels simpler. Although I know it's not always been super easy, as is. Most jobs are when you're there that long. But 25 years, you know, that's a long run. And your first two jobs in you know as I think GM and both both jobs five years and three years which is pretty typical, right. I mean, is that do I have that right? Help me out with that. [00:02:56][28.7] Jeff McFadden: [00:02:56] Yeah. No, When I graduated the hotel school at Cornell, I went to the Cosmos Club as food and beverage manager, got promoted to assistant GM clubhouse manager. And then my first GM job is in Denver, Colorado, at the University Club, which I never thought I'd move back to the East Coast from Colorado. But I did. Yeah, right. When I got headhunted to go to the Union League at at age 30. So good times. [00:03:20][24.1] Ed Heil: [00:03:21] Guess, you know, at age 30. What did the Union League see in you at that age, especially looking back now? I mean, what's it like looking back now and, you know, knowing what you were like then? I mean, what do you think they saw in you that time? [00:03:34][12.4] Jeff McFadden: [00:03:34] Well, I think in in reality, I think I was the fifth person they offered the job, too. So, you know. [00:03:40][5.2] Ed Heil: [00:03:40] You sort of you I wish I got I got a vet that won out. But yeah. [00:03:44][3.5] Jeff McFadden: [00:03:45] You know, right place, right time, situation. It just worked out well. The league was struggling in the late eighties, 1990s, as Philadelphia was struggling quite a bit before Ed Rendell, who was a gregarious mayor, wind up becoming governor of Pennsylvania. Just a terrific leader, inspirational type of person. So, you know, when I was young enough, probably dumb enough and not experienced enough to know what I was getting into. And the the more senior statement statements in the club industry probably looked at the league and said, I don't want to touch it. Right. It's it had sort of had terminal cancer. At the time it wasn't bankrupt, but it was very close to bankrupt. But I saw that it had great bones as well. It had a great foundation. You know, at 30, you think you can change the world? I think I've done well in changing the league. And it was just being again at the right place at the right time for the right situation. And we made a bad decision or a mistake. We were young enough to outhustle the mistake or the bad decision. Right. [00:04:57][71.7] Ed Heil: [00:04:57] That's interesting. So what has made you successful for so many years? I mean, if you just take the years alone, that's an incredible achievement in in the private club space to be at one place for 25 years. What do you think has made you successful in that role? [00:05:13][15.8] Jeff McFadden: [00:05:13] Well, I think the way we acquired and operate the club as sort of, you know, being an innovative type organization. Now, when I did my independent study at Cornell, I studied close to 5000 city clubs throughout the world. It was from the 15 person City Club to the to the club that had 5000. And you needed three things. You needed to have parking, you needed to know, because I gave members assurance coming in from the suburbs that they had a place to park. As you get older, you have more net worth to spend. You get a little worried about where you're going to park. The data showed that that was a huge part of being a successful city club. Yeah. So we bought a parking garage right when I got there, and then we just doubled our revenues in in less than one year. While the number two thing at the greatest city clubs in the world shared was they never sold their land and built the site skyscraper and put their club at the top of the building because eventually the I guess after the data shows after three days that you went away and then the elevator became a barrier to entry, there were a few clubs in New York, Manhattan and Tokyo that buck that trend. Windows on the World, that was a public restaurant. There was a small private club component of Windows on the World. But truly, if you were successful, members had to walk into your club, right? So the league had that as well. And then you need overnight rooms. You have all the expenses running a club, marketing, administration, engineering, you name it. If you add some overnight rooms to the equation, the profitability or the surplus that they could throw off departmentally, you know, $0.60, $0.70 on the dollar really were work well. So I was able to. Run those three things when I first got there and then reinvest into the club with incredible dining business centers, cigar bar, you know, fitness centers, that sort of thing. And so for if I look at my 25 years, the first ten or 15 was taking that incredible foundation that the league was all about. Investing in that. Growing, growing the institution. And then after ten or 15 years, we use the profitability or the surplus that was gained to really have a longer strategic plan that we entitled "Building Your Granddaughter's Club". Yeah. And and that was you know, that was sort of a light bulb moment, like, okay, are we just going to be the greatest 1965 club in 2005? Right. Or, you know, in in 2025, were we going to be what your granddaughter and great granddaughter are going to want in a private club? You know how to how do they socialize? How do they use it? You know, we started asking ourselves all those questions. [00:08:13][179.3] Ed Heil: [00:08:13] I love that. I want to come back to that next, but if we just step back to you being 30 years old, when you took that job and, you know, you come in and, you know, buying the parking structure and then you started, it sounds like, you know, in the first ten years, there's a lot of innovation and things moving forward. And I know that some of the games that will pay attention to our conversation, they're younger. There's definitely a trend towards a lot of younger jobs or it seems that there is. How did you get their trust, at that you know, I mean, and what was the mindset of the board? Were they just like, hey, we've done our homework, We know Jeff's the right guy, let him go do it. But, you know, there are a lot of clubs out there who are like, Yeah, we'll get him in there, but we'll just tell him what to do. I mean, how do you know what I mean? How do you get in there and earn their trust and really go like that? [00:09:06][52.7] Jeff McFadden: [00:09:07] So and is fortunate enough to be in the right place at the right time, as I said, because of their how they were struggling financially. But with that said, you can't go in and change the world overnight. You need to start small, you need to show a small victory and then capitalize on each of those victories. You know, as they say, having, you know, having, you know, one bite at a time, you know, you just that's way you have to do it. I think we we had, you know, coming in in 1998 on the heels with Ed Rendell being the mayor of the Republican National Convention, was held in Philadelphia in 2000. We had a tradition as a Republican club. So that was really, you know, helped us springboard into reinvesting in our facilities. But I convinced them to do little things, that the garage was a big thing. But we had already started putting new carpeting, new wallpaper, you know, one dining room at a time, hiring younger, more robust, enthusiastic, vibrant servers and studying what people wanted on food menus and that and so forth. And we just basically started with one dining room and then did another dining room and then did a bar and then bought the parking garage. And the parking garage was, was a struggle. We it was a first assessment we had at the league in 50 years. We did not have a lot of support for it. Yeah. So we, we did wind up getting about 67%, 68% in favor of it. Yeah. And, and I figure just a quick story. I was very transparent because I was I was very young at that time. So I shared everything. I still and I still am as transparent as they come. I just don't lead with my chin. Right. What's actually going on in things? [00:11:01][113.7] Ed Heil: [00:11:01] I gotta remember that. [00:11:01][0.6] Jeff McFadden: [00:11:02] Yeah. You know, it makes talking so much or sharing so much as being transparent. I know that's not necessarily people want to be let right. Need to be led and you want to be transparent in everything you do. You just don't need to tell everybody everything every minute of the day. Right? [00:11:19][17.4] Ed Heil: [00:11:20] Right. Yeah. No doubt. [00:11:21][1.1] Jeff McFadden: [00:11:21] With social media and, you know, it just seems that's what the next generation is doing. Right. So we were we were we were trying to figure out we needed to do an assessment. It was very was it very much about $2,000 a member. And we you know, they were hemming and hawing about paying that. And and one member said, could I get my money back at a town hall meeting? And I said, Mr. Grossman, you are absolutely brilliant. That's a great idea. We're going to make your assessment refundable. All you have to do is propose a new member. And it was like a light bulb went off and we ran with that. You had actually proposed two members you got $1,000 back for your first member, 1000 for your second. I love it. This is back in 1999. And basically all the naysayers and we still had it still 30 to 33% of the people voted against it. I would say to them, I said, you don't have any friends or colleagues or business people that you could propose to become a member of the league to help us out, to make sure, you know. And that was on top of all the importance of parking, obviously. Right. And then we were about a $7 million operation. We bought the parking garage. And I think the next year after it opened, we were 21, $22 million operations. Wow. Doubled, tripled what we were doing. And all it is is take the you know, the folks from the mainline or from South Jersey who are uncomfortable coming into an urban environment. Yeah, we just assured that they had parking. Right. We just said we have valet parking. It's right next to the club. [00:12:59][97.8] Ed Heil: [00:12:59] Yeah. Safety and convenience. [00:13:00][1.1] Jeff McFadden: [00:13:01] Yeah. [00:13:01][0.0] Ed Heil: [00:13:02] Exact easiest things. [00:13:02][0.8] Jeff McFadden: [00:13:03] Wow. So and so. I rode that pony for a long time,Ed, the parking garage. You know, work magic for me for the next ten years. [00:13:11][8.5] Ed Heil: [00:13:11] Yeah, no doubt. I love that. Let's talk about building your granddaughter's club. When did you come up? When did you, like, come up with that phrase that I love that I read that one of the articles. [00:13:20][8.6] Jeff McFadden: [00:13:21] Yeah. It just, you know, obviously being a men's club for so long, over 125 years of the men's club, we allowed women in 1986. The idea is there's there's so much connotation in that phrase granddaughter building your granddaughters time, meaning that we're becoming progressive more, you know, more forward thinking, more inclusive. And I also got everyone thinking not about themselves, but about the next generation and the generation after them. So I think that's almost more important than than the gender identification of saying building your granddaughters club the to show and to get the culture of our members to think that yes, we've been here 162 years, we're going to be here another hundred and 62 years. Let me not get tied up in minutia of today, but think about tomorrow and you see this and golf clubs and country clubs where they fight over a new irrigation system, you know, an 80 year old to say, hey, I don't want to pay for the new irrigation system. I'm not going to be here. Right, right, right. And you say to that person, well, you're not paying for the new irrigation system, you're paying for the irrigation system you consumed over the last 30 years. Right. And and and that's the sort of the mindset that we started to and now people are like they're proud when we build we have built into their views a capital do structure but they're proud with the the advancements that we have made, the investments that we've made and they don't they don't think of it as for them. They think, Wow, my granddaughter and my grandson are going to love this place. And it's just a little nuance, a little change. [00:15:05][104.6] Ed Heil: [00:15:06] But I've not heard people position it like that. What has been your overall philosophy, you know, and how do you share that as far as like keeping people thinking forward? Like, is there an overarching sort of, I don't know, almost like value or belief that you have that you sort of, you know, live by that way? [00:15:24][18.3] Jeff McFadden: [00:15:25] That's a it's a great question. Yeah. I think it's it's always thinking about the future. And I and I and I tell members and a lot of clubs do not do this. We have $54 million in debt, which people are like, Oh, oh, that's a lot of money. And then I don't know. And we also have $20 million in the bank, right? And if we had saved a dollar per member per month since our inception in 1862, yeah, we'd have $1,000,000,000 in the bank. And when you tell stories like that to members and you know it resonates and it gets to them that, you know, you're you're not just here to enjoy the club, but you are a steward of the club. You are a steward of the institution. You know, you need to think of it in that capacity. And for 100 years, clubs never did. Right? Right. They matter of fact, to this day, your investment income of a 501c7 is taxable. So I'm trying to tell people that they need to start a foundation to do a charitable set aside for their foundation. Do you know, do well by doing good in your community and people? Some of the greatest clubs. And I'll say, Jeff, we don't have any investments, we don't have any investment yet. I said, What do you mean? You're Aronomik, you're Marion Golf, you're Pine Valley, you don't have investment income. Like now we don't have any debt, We don't have any savings. We live hand to mouth, right? And then we assess for when we want to build something. I said, I just don't think that's the right way to run the railroad. I think, you know, you you boil the frog slowly, you add capital dues monthly into your regular dues, and you always plan for the future. You don't you don't pay off your mortgage without saying without saving for your kids college education. Right. It's right. It's not rocket science. [00:17:26][121.7] Ed Heil: [00:17:27] Yeah, well, but why don't more ask why is it so commonsense? You But I mean, so many clubs operate exactly how you just explain it. [00:17:35][7.3] Jeff McFadden: [00:17:35] Because they let emotion get in the way. You know, they bail They they you know, we're all self-serving, though, don't get me wrong. I'm self-serving as well. But, you know, if you don't have the mentality that you're part of a greater good. You know, you can easily get into. You know? You know, what are we spending today and how can I have the best results and the best experience at the least cost and. And group think happens, very quickly, you know, great leaders, you know, can change culture quickly and then you can get into the abyss quickly as well. In that... /episode/index/show/crushingclubmarketing/id/28530821