CX Files
CX Files features your hosts, CX industry analysts Mark Hillary and Peter Ryan, speaking each week to leading analysts, thinkers, and practitioners focused on managing the Customer Experience (CX). In each episode Mark and Peter talk to their guests about the future of CX, the important trends, and what customers really expect from brands today.
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Jim Farnsworth - HiOctayne - Restoring Investor Confidence In BPO
07/23/2026
Jim Farnsworth - HiOctayne - Restoring Investor Confidence In BPO
Jim Farnsworth is Founder and CEO of HiOctayne. He is based in Denver, Colorado. Jim has a long history as a senior leader within and advisor to multiple BPOs and CX experts. He is therefore well placed to comment on why the publicly traded BPOs have seen their share price collapse - and what can these companies do to recover? Publicly traded BPO and CX companies have faced a dramatic collapse in investor confidence over the past few years. Mark Hillary and Peter Ryan open this episode by exploring how AI disruption, falling valuations, short sellers, and weak industry storytelling have allowed analysts and investors to define the future of the sector. Peter then speaks with Jim Farnsworth, founder and CEO of HiOctayne, about why the market increasingly views traditional BPO companies as vulnerable labor-arbitrage businesses rather than growth companies. Jim argues that BPOs need to stop positioning themselves as technology companies and instead demonstrate how they can deliver customer outcomes through a blend of AI, automation, analytics, and human expertise. The conversation also explores whether privately owned firms have an advantage over publicly traded businesses because they can plan beyond the pressure of quarterly results. Summary: Mark Hillary and Peter Ryan discuss the challenges faced by publicly traded BPOs, noting significant losses and declining share prices over the past few years. They highlight the impact of AI on the industry, with companies like Klarna announcing major workforce reductions, leading to a negative narrative. Jim Farnsworth, a BPO industry expert, emphasizes the need for BPOs to redefine themselves as hybrid entities combining human and AI capabilities. He suggests that private equity-owned BPOs may have an advantage due to less pressure from quarterly market expectations and more strategic flexibility. The conversation underscores the importance of storytelling and strategic positioning in the evolving CX landscape.
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BONUS: Mark Hillary - If AI Can’t See You, Buyers Won’t Either: The New Rules of B2B Sales
07/22/2026
BONUS: Mark Hillary - If AI Can’t See You, Buyers Won’t Either: The New Rules of B2B Sales
If AI Can’t See You, Buyers Won’t Either: The New Rules of B2B Sales In this special bonus episode of CX Files, Peter Ryan turns the microphone on his co-host Mark Hillary to discuss Mark’s latest book, If AI Can’t See You, You Don’t Exist: How B2B Sales Changed Forever. Mark explains how AI platforms such as ChatGPT, Gemini, and Claude are transforming the earliest stages of the buying journey. Potential clients are now using AI to define their problems, compare solutions, investigate suppliers, and create shortlists—often before a salesperson knows that an opportunity exists. The central message is that content can no longer be treated as a minor marketing activity. Original articles, interviews, podcasts, case studies, and executive insights have become part of a company’s sales infrastructure: the public evidence AI systems use when deciding which businesses to recommend. Mark and Peter also explore why generic, automatically generated content is unlikely to build authority, why valuable material must be publicly accessible rather than hidden behind paywalls, and why podcasts and videos should be supported by transcripts that AI platforms can read. Mark shares a striking example of ChatGPT recommending an earlier CX Files interview when asked about the impact of AI on contact centres—demonstrating how credible expert conversations can directly influence AI-generated answers. The episode offers a practical introduction to the book’s central warning: companies that fail to make their genuine expertise visible may disappear from the buyer’s consideration before the formal sales process has even begun. --- --- Send Mark Hillary a direct message on LinkedIn with your email address if you want to receive a free PDF copy of the book - or feel free to go and order a copy via Amazon if you prefer a "real" book. --- Summary: Peter Ryan and Mark Hillary discuss Mark's new book, "If AI Can't See You, You Don't Exist," which explores the transformative impact of AI on sales and marketing, particularly in BPOs. Mark highlights how AI tools like ChatGPT, Gemini, and Claude are changing client behavior, emphasizing the need for high-quality content to engage AI systems. Peter shares examples of using AI for event planning and content accessibility. They stress the importance of visibility in AI-driven marketing and offer listeners a free PDF of Mark's book upon request. The conversation underscores the evolving landscape of sales and marketing strategies influenced by AI.
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Jessica Pleffken and Ana Marvulle - P&M Marketing - No One Outsources to a Company They’ve Never Heard Of
07/16/2026
Jessica Pleffken and Ana Marvulle - P&M Marketing - No One Outsources to a Company They’ve Never Heard Of
Jessica Pleffken is the founder and CEO of Pleffken & Marvulle Marketing. Ana Marvulle is co-founder and managing partner. Jessica and Ana both have a long history working inside CX and BPO companies and now their specialist marketing company advises companies working in the CX environment. Both Jessica and Ana are based in São Paulo, Brazil. Jessica and Ana explain why the traditional separation between marketing and sales no longer works. BPO buyers now conduct extensive research before contacting a provider, using LinkedIn, client referrals and AI platforms such as ChatGPT, Claude and Perplexity to compare companies and build shortlists. Marketing must therefore do more than generate leads: it must establish trust, demonstrate operational capability and ensure that the company presents a clear, consistent and credible story across its website, content, sales materials and public reputation. The conversation explores how sales, marketing and operations can work as a single growth system with shared priorities and metrics. Jessica and Ana also argue that BPO companies need stronger client advocacy, genuine case studies and evidence of results rather than generic claims. Their final advice is simple: write for customers rather than industry peers, avoid unnecessary jargon and explain clearly what the company actually does. In an AI-driven buying environment, the providers that communicate with the greatest clarity and credibility will be the easiest to discover - and the easiest to trust. Summary: Mark Hillary and Peter Ryan discuss the evolving landscape of customer experience (CX) and marketing in the business process outsourcing (BPO) industry. They highlight the importance of integrating marketing and sales due to changes in client behavior, particularly the increased use of AI for shortlisting BPOs. Jessica Pleffken and Anna Marvulle from P&M Marketing in São Paulo emphasize the need for a unified growth system, shared metrics, and simple, clear communication to build trust and credibility. They stress the importance of aligning marketing and sales strategies, understanding client needs, and maintaining consistent messaging to enhance brand reputation and client acquisition.
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Tugs and Adrian Smith - ATAC Global CX - Proof, Not Promises: Certifying the Remote Contact Center Agent
07/09/2026
Tugs and Adrian Smith - ATAC Global CX - Proof, Not Promises: Certifying the Remote Contact Center Agent
Peter Ryan speaks with Tugs Smith and Adrian Smith, co-founders of ATAC Global CX in Oshawa, Ontario, about the launch of the Certified Remote Service Agent certification. The discussion explores why remote contact center work now needs a trusted global standard, how agents can prove they are ready to handle real customer interactions from home, and why resumes and interviews are no longer enough. Tugs and Adrian explain how the CRSA combines written assessment, live call simulation, and blockchain verification to create a portable credential for work-from-home CX professionals. They also discuss how certification can help agents stand out, reduce hiring risk for employers, and give BPOs a stronger signal of quality when competing for new business. Summary: Mark Hillary and Peter Ryan discuss the CRSA (Certified Remote Service Agent) program developed by Tugs and Adrian Smith of ATAC, a work-from-home company in Canada. The CRSA is a blockchain-verified accreditation for remote customer service agents, ensuring they can handle complex interactions effectively. The program includes a written assessment and a live voice call simulation, evaluating agents on professionalism, communication, CX operations, technology, health and safety, and compliance. The dynamic and randomized nature of the evaluation ensures agents are tested on their real-time problem-solving skills. The CRSA aims to improve service standards and reduce hiring risks, benefiting both businesses and agents.
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Muhammad Yahya Patel - Huntress - Cybersecurity Is Now a CX Problem
07/02/2026
Muhammad Yahya Patel - Huntress - Cybersecurity Is Now a CX Problem
Your contact center may be one of the most valuable targets in the enterprise supply chain. Peter Ryan speaks with Muhammad Yahya Patel, Cybersecurity Advisor at Huntress, about why cybersecurity has become a critical issue for CX leaders, contact centers, and BPO providers. He is based in Blackburn in the UK. Muhammad Yahya Patel explains why CX operations are attractive targets for cybercriminals, how outsourcers can become vulnerable points in the enterprise supply chain, and why customer data makes these environments so valuable to attackers. The conversation explores identity as the new security perimeter, the risks of underinvestment, the difference between compliance and genuine cyber resilience, and why CX organizations need proactive partners rather than just more tools. This episode is a timely reminder that cybersecurity is no longer just an IT concern. It is now central to customer trust, operational resilience, and the future of CX delivery. Summary: Mark Hillary and Peter Ryan discuss the importance of cybersecurity in CX delivery, highlighting the vulnerabilities of CX operations within the supply chain. They reference a report by IBM, noting the average cost of a cyber attack cleanup is $5 million, which can be catastrophic for small and medium-sized businesses. Muhammad Yahya Patel from Huntress Labs emphasizes the need for proactive cybersecurity measures, advocating for partnerships that provide tailored solutions rather than just tool purchases. Patel also stresses the importance of continuous cyber resilience and compliance with evolving regulations. The conversation underscores the critical role of cybersecurity in maintaining business continuity and reputation.
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Donald Berryman - ProfectusCX - The Future For The Enterprise-BPO Relationship
06/25/2026
Donald Berryman - ProfectusCX - The Future For The Enterprise-BPO Relationship
Donald Berryman is the Founder & Managing Director at ProfectusCX. He is based in Florida, USA. Don writes a LinkedIn newsletter called The CX Advisor Perspective. He recently published several newsletters focused on how the enterprise to BPO relationship needs to develop - to bridge new AI technology use and also to change how BPOs charge for their services. Mark Hillary called Don to explore the issues he raised and how he sees the future of the bridge between the enterprise and BPO and the RFP supplier selection process. ProfectusCX Don Berryman - LinkedIn The CX Advisor Perspective Summary Mark Hillary and Peter Ryan discuss the evolving CX landscape with Don Berryman, an advisor at Bain and founder of ProfectusCX. Berryman's LinkedIn newsletter, "The CX Advisor Perspective," highlights the need for both BPOs and enterprises to adapt to AI technology. He argues that enterprises must move beyond outdated procurement methods and focus on strategic AI investments to improve customer experience. Berryman emphasizes the shift from headcount-based pricing to outcome-based models, such as per resolved issue or CSAT. He also stresses the importance of co-managed contact centers and the need for BPOs to invest in strategic people and technology to stay competitive.
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Lara Klick - Klick Advisors - Why Patient Feedback Rarely Leads to Better Care
06/18/2026
Lara Klick - Klick Advisors - Why Patient Feedback Rarely Leads to Better Care
Lara Klick is the Founder and President of Klick Advisors LLC. She is based in Tampa Bay, Florida, USA. Klick Advisors is a trust-centered consulting practice that helps healthcare leaders and teams navigate high-stakes moments with clarity, empathy, and courage. Lara heard our episode from March where Melanie Disse explored why companies ask for feedback, but don't use it. She suggested that this subject could be explored futther with a focus on healtcare and the Patient Experience - so Mark Hillary called Lara to explore feedback, PX, and designing better healthcare experiences. Lara has already recently published a new book titled 'Simple Doesn't Mean Easy' - entirely focused on improving patient experience. Summary: Lara Klick, founder of Klick Advisors, discusses the importance of acting on customer feedback, particularly in healthcare. She highlights that healthcare organizations often collect vast amounts of data but struggle to utilize it effectively. Klick emphasizes the need for specialized leaders, a supportive culture, and personalized data delivery. She shares an example where gamification increased nurse compliance from 25% to 75% in three weeks. Klick also stresses the significance of treating complaints as opportunities and co-designing improvements with patients. Her book, "Simple Doesn't Mean Easy," offers insights from her 30 years of experience in healthcare feedback.
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Guillaume Luccisano - Yuma AI - The Great CX Reset: Why BPOs May Need a New Business Model
06/11/2026
Guillaume Luccisano - Yuma AI - The Great CX Reset: Why BPOs May Need a New Business Model
The BPO Industry Isn't Dying. But It May Need to Reinvent Itself Faster Than Anyone Expected. Yuma AI CEO Guillaume Luccisano argues that customer experience providers must evolve from labor arbitrage specialists into AI orchestrators and systems integrators—or risk becoming irrelevant. For years, critics of the business process outsourcing industry have predicted its demise. First it was robotic process automation. Then conversational AI. Then Generative AI. Yet the industry survived every previous wave of disruption because technology changed the way work was delivered rather than eliminating the need for the service itself. In episode 420 of the CX Files, Guillaume talks to Mark Hillary about these changes and how BPOs may need to adapt. -------------- Summary: Mark Hillary and Peter Ryan discuss the impact of AI on the BPO industry, featuring Guillaume Luccisano, CEO of Yuma AI. Luccisano argues that traditional BPO models are outdated, emphasizing AI's potential to automate 100% of customer service within 2-3 years. He highlights Yuma AI's success in deploying AI agents since 2023, achieving automation rates up to 89%. Luccisano predicts a significant shift in the job market due to AI, suggesting BPOs must evolve into systems integrators to survive. He also notes the cost efficiency of AI, with interactions costing under $1 compared to $4-$8 for human agents. ---- The BPO Industry Isn't Dying. But It May Need to Reinvent Itself Faster Than Anyone Expected. Yuma AI CEO Guillaume Luccisano argues that customer experience providers must evolve from labor arbitrage specialists into AI orchestrators and systems integrators—or risk becoming irrelevant. For years, critics of the business process outsourcing industry have predicted its demise. First it was robotic process automation. Then conversational AI. Then Generative AI. Yet the industry survived every previous wave of disruption because technology changed the way work was delivered rather than eliminating the need for the service itself. But according to Guillaume Luccisano, founder and CEO of Yuma AI, this time may be different. Speaking on Episode 420 of the CX Files podcast, Luccisano argued that the traditional BPO model—selling customer service through large pools of human agents—is facing a challenge unlike anything it has encountered before. His view is stark: AI is no longer just helping agents do their jobs better. It is increasingly capable of doing the job itself. And if that trend continues, the industry will need to redefine its purpose. The End of the "Cost Per Interaction" Era Luccisano's company specializes in AI-powered customer service automation for retail and e-commerce brands. He claims some clients are already automating the vast majority of customer interactions. What has changed, he argues, is that AI is no longer limited to answering questions from a knowledge base. Modern AI agents can access customer records, understand context, follow workflows, execute transactions, and complete tasks. In other words, they are moving beyond information retrieval and into operational execution. This matters because the traditional BPO business model has largely been built around charging for human effort—whether measured in agents, hours, seats, or interactions. If AI can handle increasing volumes of customer contacts at a fraction of the cost, then the economics begin to shift dramatically. A contact that once required several dollars of human labor may eventually be resolved for a few cents in computing costs. Even if those figures are debated, the direction of travel is becoming difficult to ignore. The Problem Isn't Technology. It's Incentives. One of Luccisano's most interesting observations is that many outsourcing providers are already talking extensively about AI. The question is whether they are deploying AI to genuinely transform operations or merely adding enough AI to satisfy customer demand while protecting existing revenue streams. That creates an uncomfortable tension. A provider whose business depends on thousands of agents has little incentive to aggressively deploy technology that could reduce the number of agents required. As Luccisano noted, many providers find themselves caught between serving today's business model and preparing for tomorrow's. The challenge is not technical. It is organizational. And perhaps even existential. Why Investors Are Nervous The sharp decline in the share prices of several publicly traded CX providers has fuelled speculation about the sector's future. Luccisano believes investors are not simply reacting to hype. They are attempting to price in a future where customer service becomes significantly more automated, more efficient, and therefore less dependent on large labor-intensive operations. Whether investors have overreacted remains open to debate. But the market is clearly asking a difficult question: What happens to a company built around managing tens of thousands of customer service agents when customers increasingly expect AI-driven efficiency? The answer remains uncertain. But it is a question every provider now has to confront. The Hidden Complexity Most Critics Ignore To his credit, Luccisano does not dismiss the value that BPOs create today. Customer interactions are only one piece of a much larger operational puzzle. Large CX providers manage compliance requirements, regulatory obligations, security controls, multilingual operations, workforce management, governance frameworks, quality assurance, and complex integrations across dozens of markets. Replacing an individual customer service interaction with AI is one thing. Replacing the entire operational framework surrounding customer service is something else entirely. This is where many simplistic predictions about the "death of BPO" fall apart. The institutional knowledge accumulated by major outsourcing firms still has value. The question is whether that value can be repackaged. From Outsourcer to Systems Integrator Perhaps the most important idea from the conversation was Luccisano's belief that the future role of the BPO may look less like a labor provider and more like a systems integrator. Rather than selling headcount, providers could sell expertise. Rather than managing agents, they could manage AI agents. Rather than staffing operations, they could design, orchestrate, govern, optimize, and continuously improve AI-enabled customer experience ecosystems. This is a subtle but profound shift. It moves the provider higher up the value chain. The emphasis shifts from execution to orchestration. From labor to outcomes. From workforce management to intelligent systems management. Ironically, this would bring some BPOs closer to the role that companies like IBM, Accenture, and other major technology integrators evolved into years ago. A Difficult Transition The challenge, of course, is that transformation is easier to describe than to execute. Reinventing a startup is one thing. Reinventing a global organization employing hundreds of thousands of people is another. Many of today's largest CX providers are highly successful businesses with established customer relationships and predictable revenue streams. That success can become a barrier to change. The dilemma is obvious. How aggressively should a company invest in technologies that could cannibalize its own business? History suggests that incumbents often struggle with precisely this problem. The Bigger Question Perhaps the most controversial part of Luccisano's argument extends beyond outsourcing entirely. He believes AI is creating a broader economic transformation that will affect many knowledge-based professions, not just customer service. Software engineering, consulting, administration, legal services, and customer experience are all beginning to feel the effects. If he is right, then the debate is no longer about whether AI will change customer service. The debate is about how quickly institutions can adapt to a world where intelligence itself becomes abundant and inexpensive. The Future May Belong to the Adaptable The most important takeaway from this discussion is not that BPOs are doomed. In fact, Luccisano repeatedly acknowledged that some providers will survive and potentially thrive. But survival may depend on abandoning the assumption that customer service is primarily a labor business. The providers that succeed could be those that become trusted advisors, AI operators, governance experts, and systems integrators. The providers that fail may be those that continue selling people when customers increasingly want outcomes. The outsourcing industry has reinvented itself before. The question now is whether it can do so again—at the speed AI demands.
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David Rickard - Everest Group - Elevate Ethiopia
06/04/2026
David Rickard - Everest Group - Elevate Ethiopia
David Rickard is a partner at Everest Group. He is based in the UK. David recently visited Ethiopia for the Elevate Africa event. In this conversation with Peter Ryan David gives his take on Ethiopia and Africa more generally for CX and BPO. --- Africa has been talked about as “the next big thing” in outsourcing for at least two decades. South Africa became a serious global CX delivery location. Egypt built a powerful multilingual BPO proposition. Kenya, Ghana, Rwanda, and several other markets are now attracting attention as buyers look beyond the traditional offshore giants. But Ethiopia is starting to enter the conversation in a more serious way. , interviewed , a partner at , shortly after David returned from the conference in Ethiopia. The conversation was valuable because David was not offering a promotional pitch. As an analyst, his job is to look at both sides of the equation: the opportunity and the obstacles.
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CXOutsourcers 2026 - Voices From The Conference
05/28/2026
CXOutsourcers 2026 - Voices From The Conference
The annual CXOutsourcers Mindshare event took place in Ottawa, Canada, earlier in May 2026 (May 18-20). Peter Ryan took a microphone onto the conference floor to capture ideas and comments from the delegates in Canada for this CX-focused event. In this episode of CX Files you will hear comments from: Sean Duncombe - COO, Neuroframe (USA) Nathalie Siphengphet - CMO and VP Strategy, NQX (Canada) Yanique Grant - Chief CX Specialist, ElevateCX (USA) Seandette Wiltshire - Founder, The Contact Hub (Barbados) Dave Rumble - various roles including Director and Chair Maistro Group and board advisor to NDH Group (UK) Krzysztof Herdzik - Co-founder and Chief Expert, Nalu Experts (Poland) Fauad Nasir - CEO and Founder, EmpireOne BPO (Canada) Anna Yotova - Head of Innovation and co-founder, CALLBOXS (Bulgaria) Veronica Richards - VP at WW Calls Canada (Canada) Faye Joubert - CRO, iTalk International (South Africa) Terez Rijkenberg - Executive Coach (UK) Vinay Parmar - MD, Customer Whisperers (UK) Note: the order listed here is the order the voices feature in the podcast - there is no secret formula about the order. It's the order in which Peter sent the audio files to Mark Hillary to be included in this episode.
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Jonas Berggren - Transcom - What Makes Customers Love A Brand?
05/21/2026
Jonas Berggren - Transcom - What Makes Customers Love A Brand?
What makes a customer love a brand? It is a simple question, but it quickly becomes complicated. People often reach for the obvious examples. Apple customers lining up overnight for the latest iPhone. Harry Potter fans queuing in costume outside bookshops. Lego fans who pass their love of the brand from one generation to the next. Jonas Berggren, Chief Client Officer EMEA at Transcom, explores this question. What connects the best brands with customers and building a relationship that can last for many years?
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Stephanie Reeves Millner - Designing CX For Sales and Revenue
05/14/2026
Stephanie Reeves Millner - Designing CX For Sales and Revenue
Stephanie Reeves Millner is a Global EVP at TP. She is based in Phoenix, Arizona, USA. It is worth noting from the start of this podcast episode that Stephanie is talking in a personal capacity in this interview. CX and BPO processes are usually seen as a cost to most businesses. Stephanie argues that there are a number of strategies that can be used to drive up revenue, protect existing revenue, and increase customer loyalty. Applying all these strategies together can turn a CX cost center into a revenue generation center - moving from planning service to sales. In this conversation with Mark Hillary, Stephanie explains this service to sales concept. She also talks her her use of LinkedIn video to promote and share her own ideas - why is it so valuable to share raw and unfiltered content full of original ideas? Summary: Mark Hillary and Peter Ryan discuss the shift from viewing customer interactions as a cost to recognizing their revenue-generating potential. Stephanie Reeves Millner, a global EVP at TP, emphasizes the importance of human engagement in customer care, highlighting revenue protection, creation, trust, and loyalty. She advocates for a brand performance engine over a cost center, focusing on retention, repeat purchases, and lifetime value. Millner also discusses the role of AI in augmenting human decision-making and the need for agents to have autonomy in upselling. She shares her experience with videos on LinkedIn, which have gained traction and provided valuable insights to her audience.
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Andrew Hall - Ethenta - Enterprise Agentic AI Transformation
05/07/2026
Andrew Hall - Ethenta - Enterprise Agentic AI Transformation
Andrew Hall is the founder and CEO of Ethenta. He is based in Portugal. The "DREAM" service from Ethenta is a strategic framework designed to help organizations transition from traditional hierarchies to intelligent, agentic networks. It is aimed at enabling "+65% Productivity" through "Enterprise Agentic AI Transformation" Mark Hillary called Andrew to ask about Agentic AI and how a focus on AI across the organisation may have a profound impact on CX. Summary: Mark Hillary and Peter Ryan discuss the challenges in the CX industry, including increased airfare costs and the bankruptcy of Spirit Airlines. They introduce Andrew Hall, who has formed a new company, Ethenta, focused on agentic AI. Ethenta's "DREAM" methodology helps organizations reimagine their business processes by capturing and synthesizing data from various sources, including interviews and historical data. The tool provides a visualization of the enterprise's "corporate psyche," aiding in decision-making and root cause analysis. Andrew emphasizes the importance of intelligent people using AI to augment, not replace, human intelligence.
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Nathan Muniz - 247Secretary.com - Raw, unpolished BPO content outperforms glossy marketing
04/30/2026
Nathan Muniz - 247Secretary.com - Raw, unpolished BPO content outperforms glossy marketing
Nathan Muniz is the founder and owner of 247Secretary.com. The business is based in Florida, USA, but has contact center operations in the Philippines. Nathan talked to Mark Hillary from the floor of his contact center on his approach to telling the world about his business. He walks the floor and talks to real people doing their job. No studio. No scripts. No “AI transformation” buzzwords. Just real agents, real calls, and real insight. And here’s the uncomfortable truth: That raw, unfiltered content is doing more for his pipeline than most enterprise marketing teams with million-dollar budgets. Prospects are literally saying: “ChatGPT told us to talk to you.” Let that sink in. While everyone else is using AI to churn out generic content, Nathan is using reality to train the AI engines. Authenticity is the key word here. Nathan lets people see his business up close and the online viewers love it, but the AI audience is even more important - because these AI tools are telling people about Nathan's business. Summary: Mark Hillary and Peter Ryan discuss Nathan Muniz's innovative marketing strategy for his BPO, 247Secretary.com, in the Philippines. Nathan's approach involves posting authentic, behind-the-scenes videos on LinkedIn, which has attracted clients through AI recommendations like ChatGPT. This transparency has led to significant engagement and new leads without traditional lead generation efforts. Nathan emphasizes the importance of showing legitimacy, especially for offshore BPOs, and highlights the value of original content over glossy marketing. He also notes the ongoing demand for human agents despite AI hype and advises businesses to be transparent about their operations to build trust and credibility.
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Gary Slade - TP - Why Stability Is the New Battleground in BPO
04/23/2026
Gary Slade - TP - Why Stability Is the New Battleground in BPO
Gary Slade is the Chief Commerical Officer at TP EMEA. He has many years of BPO and CX experience and he previously led the UK/Ireland operation at TP as CEO. In this conversation with Mark Hillary, Gary is talking about BPO stability and how this is becoming an important new measurement that companies need to focus on. If you are looking for a BPO partner then how do you know if they will still be around in 5 years? There is so much M&A activity, Private Equity takeovers, and BPOs that rely on a single client or geography... how can you be sure that you are choosing a reliable partner who can support your future growth plans? Is stability becoming the new BPO battleground? Summary: Mark Hillary and Peter Ryan discuss the importance of stability in Business Process Outsourcing (BPO) services, highlighting Gary Slade's (TP EMEA CCO) views on the shift from cost to reliability. They note the volatility in geopolitics and fuel crises, which emphasize the need for BPOs to be resilient and financially stable. Slade emphasizes the importance of geographic diversity, industry experience, and technological investment. He also discusses the impact of private equity on service quality and the need for total cost of ownership considerations. The conversation concludes with the importance of BPOs demonstrating long-term stability and adaptability to future disruptions.
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Sarah Leff - Interact CC - Why the Eastern Cape Could Be South Africa’s Next CX Powerhouse
04/16/2026
Sarah Leff - Interact CC - Why the Eastern Cape Could Be South Africa’s Next CX Powerhouse
In this episode of CX Files, Peter Ryan speaks with Sarah Leff about Interact CC’s expansion into South Africa’s Eastern Cape, exploring why the region is emerging as a compelling alternative to traditional CX hubs like Cape Town and Johannesburg. Leff explains that while South Africa has long been a natural partner for UK-based customer experience delivery - thanks to cultural alignment, language, and time zone compatibility - the Eastern Cape offers a distinct advantage: significantly lower attrition, abundant untapped graduate talent, and greater cost stability. The conversation highlights how Interact’s people-centric, employee-owned model aligns well with a region where jobs are valued as long-term careers rather than stepping stones, resulting in stronger engagement and performance. Together, they argue that as CX buyers move beyond cost-driven outsourcing toward value, resilience, and talent quality, newer locations like the Eastern Cape represent the next evolution of Africa’s role in global service delivery. Summary: Mark Hillary and Peter Ryan discuss the expansion of Interact Contact Centers into the Eastern Cape Province in South Africa. Sarah Leff, Managing Director of Interact Global, explains the decision to set up in the Eastern Cape due to lower attrition rates (15-25%) compared to other hubs like Cape Town, Durban, and Johannesburg (30-40%). The region offers a highly educated workforce, neutral accents, and lower costs. Interact's new site in Port Elizabeth employs around 100 people, with plans to scale up. The company values its people-centric approach and strong client partnerships, which have lasted over a decade.
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Chris Chance - CCI Global - Africa Rising For CX
04/09/2026
Chris Chance - CCI Global - Africa Rising For CX
Chris Chance is the Senior Vice President for East Africa at CCI Global. He is based between Kenya, Rwanda, and Ethiopia. CCI Global is headquartered in the UAR, but has extensive operations across Africa - they aim to be the largest and most respected BPO in Africa through a combination of offering innovative services with a focus on impact sourcing and community uplift. In this conversation with Mark Hillary from his base in Ethiopia, Chris talks about the creation of the Outsourcing Alliance of Kenya (OAK) - what does it mean for the region that we are seeing stronger organization around promotion for CX and BPO? Beyond the new alliance, Chris talked about the increased development of services from Africa - with a new wave of countries even coming up close behind the ones he is working in. Reports mentioned in the podcast: Summary: Mark Hillary and Peter Ryan discuss the emergence of Kenya and other African countries as significant players in the CX and BPO sectors. Chris Chance from CCI Global highlights the Outsourcing Alliance of Kenya (OAK), which aims to unify the industry and align with Kenya's 2030 vision. Kenya's BPO sector has grown 10% annually, generating $700 million in revenue and creating 40,000 jobs. Chance emphasizes the importance of leveraging local skills, such as Kenya's expertise in mobile money, and the shift towards value-led delivery models. The conversation also touches on the broader African market, including emerging and nascent markets, and the need for organized, accessible information about these opportunities.
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Steve Sullivan - Channel Doctors - How Do We Manage Customer Rage?
04/02/2026
Steve Sullivan - Channel Doctors - How Do We Manage Customer Rage?
Steve Sullivan is the founder of Channel Doctors. He is based in Bournemouth in the UK. Channel Doctors is a specialist advisory company focused on CX, contact centers, and especially issues such as data protection and GDPR. Peter Ryan called Steve after seeing a LinkedIn post on managing customer rage. Are customers more angry today and how are companies dealing with it? How can it be managed in the contact center and how is it managed for customer service advisers who need to interact directly with customers - for example in retail? Is the increased rage linked to social media and what can companies do to serve customers more effectively when they are more and more angry? Summary: Mark Hillary and Peter Ryan discuss the growing phenomenon of customer rage, particularly post-pandemic, with Steve Sullivan from Channel Doctors. They highlight the impact of social media on customer behavior, the rise of anonymous abuse, and the need for better training and support for customer service agents. Sullivan notes that customer frustration has increased due to self-service failures and cultural disconnects. He emphasizes the importance of organizations addressing these issues to prevent attrition and improve customer experience. They also discuss the potential negative effects of AI-driven automation on customer interactions and the need for personalized AI assistants to mitigate customer rage.
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Melanie Disse - Melanie Disse Consulting - Acting on Customer Feedback
03/26/2026
Melanie Disse - Melanie Disse Consulting - Acting on Customer Feedback
Melanie Disse is the Principal Consultant and Tech Adviser to Melanie Disse Consulting. Melanie Disse Consulting is a CX & VoC consulting firm helping businesses leverage CX as a key competitive differentiator to drive business performance through understanding customer experiences. Melanie is based in Auckland, New Zealand. In this conversation with Peter Ryan, Melanie outlines how companies can more effectively obtain feedback from customers and how to make use of this feedback. Most companies struggle to turn customer feedback into action and many are still relying on the surveys that customers hate completing. Is there a better way to engage customers and get productive feedback? Summary: Mark Hillary and Peter Ryan discuss the importance of leveraging customer insights to drive great customer experience (CX) with Melanie Disse, a consultant from New Zealand. Melanie highlights the need for organizations to move beyond just collecting feedback to actually acting on it. She identifies three stages: listen, analyze, and act, emphasizing the challenges in breaking down silos and using technology to unify data from various sources. Melanie also notes the global phenomenon of poor customer service and the necessity for organizations to implement feedback to improve CX. They conclude by promoting the CX Outsourcers event in Ottawa, where Melanie will be speaking.
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Gareth Bray - Premier CX - Why Customers Prefer WhatsApp
03/19/2026
Gareth Bray - Premier CX - Why Customers Prefer WhatsApp
Gareth Bray is Business Development Director and WhatsApp Guru at Premier CX. He is based in Odiham, Hampshire, UK. Over 100 billion WhatsApp messages are sent daily by users - that's more than a million messages on the platform every second. Between 1 to 3 billion of these daily messages is a customer talking to a business. Gareth was on the Meta team when they launched WhatsApp in Europe so he has a long background using this asynchronous messaging tool. In many global markets WhatsApp has entirely redefined customer service. In Brazil and India it can be used to locate local businesses and almost all businesses engage with customers using WhatsApp. It's not so prevalent in the US (although still over 100m users) or Europe, but should more companies be looking at this tool? After all, as so many CX directors look to AI for a quick win, they could be exploring a tool that is used billions of times daily and offers a way to engage with customers that is much more convenient than webchat. It's also free for the customer and very low cost for the business. Mark Hillary called Gareth to explore WhatsApp and why more companies should be considering this messaging app. --- Summary: Mark Hillary and Peter Ryan discuss the rise of WhatsApp as a customer service channel, particularly in Brazil and India, with Gareth Bray from Premier CX. WhatsApp's asynchronous support allows for convenient customer interactions, improving efficiency and reducing costs by 85%. Bray highlights that 1 billion people weekly message businesses on WhatsApp, and the platform's user base in the US is growing rapidly. WhatsApp offers features like decision trees, video clips, and integration with CRM systems, enhancing customer experience and agent efficiency. The platform's automation and AI capabilities are also emphasized, with a focus on agentic AI that allows customers to accomplish tasks within a flow.
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CCW Berlin 2026 - Feedback Direct From The Floor
03/12/2026
CCW Berlin 2026 - Feedback Direct From The Floor
CCW 2026 took place at the end of February 2026 in Berlin. Peter Ryan was there on the conference floor. He took a microphone and tried to capture several comments and ideas from the delegates - what was the conference about and what were the key themes that people in CX are focused on in 2026? CCW conference delegates who spoke to Peter Ryan: Monika Röhr-Łukasik Axendi Humphrey Davies BPO Search Daniel Castilla Alliance BPO Corina Amza Rockstart Chrissie Porter CCMA Simon Rainbow Pose CX -------- NOTE: this recording was made on the floor of the CCW conference so the sound quality is not the usual quality we would use on the podcast, but we live and learn about the best ways to report from events like this! Summary: Mark Hillary and Peter Ryan discuss the CCW Berlin 2026 show, highlighting the event's international reach and focus on AI. Peter interviewed a number of people on the floor of the conference. Key points included the need for broader event content beyond AI, the importance of networking, and the challenge of differentiating AI solutions. Attendees appreciated the international networking opportunities but criticized the over-focus on AI. Simon emphasized the need for clear AI use cases to enhance agent and customer experiences. The event was praised for its networking potential and international representation.
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Michel Stevens - CXM Academy - How Can We Improve CX Events?
03/05/2026
Michel Stevens - CXM Academy - How Can We Improve CX Events?
Michel Stevens is Course Director at the CXM Academy. He is also a managing partner at goCX. He is based in Antwerp, Belbium. The CXM Academy aims to build training for the real world - interactive and culturally relevant. In this conversation with Peter Ryan, Michel talks about CX events. Why are so many of them so repetitive? Why are they flooded with the same speakers talking about the same subjects? Why do events focus on getting 1,000 through the door rather than on high quality information? Summary: Mark Hillary and Peter Ryan discuss the state of CX industry events, highlighting concerns about repetitive content, lack of thought leadership, and the dominance of AI discussions. They introduce an interview with Michel Stevens, who criticizes the traditional conference model for its focus on scale over depth. Stevens advocates for smaller, more intimate events that prioritize interaction and curated content. He suggests that organizers should emphasize interaction, curate events carefully, and be honest about their business models. The conversation underscores the need for events to evolve to provide genuine value and meaningful connections.
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Roger Barlow - LATAM Translations - AI Has Changed Translation Into Interpretation
02/26/2026
Roger Barlow - LATAM Translations - AI Has Changed Translation Into Interpretation
Roger Barlow is Director of LATAM Translations. He is based in São Paulo, Brazil. Roger is British and has lived in Brazil since 1998. Since 2001 he has focused on helping Brazilian companies engage with a global audience. This involves a significant amount of translation from and to Portuguese. Multilingual CX is a subject we have often covered on CX Files so Mark decided to call up Roger because of his experience managing a company that is entirely focused on translation. How has AI impacted translation and will we see a complete replacement of translation because AI can now do this work? The answer may be surprising. AI is getting better, but the reality is still that many humans don't understand each other so there are many subtle messages and meanings that may still require human attention. CX leaders considering a complete move to automated multilingual support may need to take these ideas on board - day-to-day basic services can be automated, but it's still not possible to achieve 100% accuracy using AI in translation or interpretation. Summary: Mark Hillary and Peter Ryan discuss the impact of AI on translation services with Roger Barlow, who runs LATAM Translations in São Paulo. Barlow highlights that while AI can handle basic translations, it struggles with nuances and context, especially in complex documents like ESG reports. He notes that most of his work comes via email, and the pandemic led to a permanent shift to remote work - WFH is now normal. Barlow also mentions that AI is often used without permission, leading to errors. He predicts a potential pushback against AI-driven translation due to its limitations in conveying subtle meanings and maintaining document quality.
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Michael Gray - Spacial Working - Hybrid Work Is Here to Stay
02/19/2026
Michael Gray - Spacial Working - Hybrid Work Is Here to Stay
Michael Gray is the Chief Strategy and Marketing Officer at Spacial Working. He is based in London, UK. Spacial Working is focused on helping companies to create a flexible work environment that embraces both working from home and working in offices. The aim is to create a flexible arrangement that works well for the company and employees. The media often reports that WFH is finished and most employees are heading back into offices, but the reality is quite different. There is less WFH than during the pandemic period, but it has plateaued and is not dropping much further - so there is much more flexibility today compared to 2019. But many companies still struggle to make it work well so what does Michael advise? Summary: In this CX Files episode, Mark Hillary speaks with Michael Gray, Chief Strategy Officer at Spacial Working, about what the pandemic really changed — and what it didn’t — in customer experience operations. Gray explains that work-from-home in the contact center industry is not a temporary COVID experiment but part of a much longer evolution enabled by technology and workforce expectations. While some executives continue pushing return-to-office mandates, the evidence shows the future is hybrid: organizations must redesign recruitment, training, management, and performance measurement rather than simply sending agents home with laptops. Flexible working can improve retention and productivity, particularly for parents, carers, and geographically distant employees, but only if supported by proper monitoring, communication structures, and culture. The real challenge for CX leaders is no longer deciding whether remote work works — it is learning how to operationally manage a permanent hybrid workforce. Disclosure: Mark Hillary is a research adviser to Spacial Working
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Jacqui Turner - Turner Corner - CX For Vulnerable Customers
02/12/2026
Jacqui Turner - Turner Corner - CX For Vulnerable Customers
Jacqui Turner founded the Turner Corner Leadership Academy. She is based at Great Malvern, which is close to Stratford-Upon-Avon in the UK. The academy is focused on customer service training, leadership programmes and coaching interventions. Training followed by coaching with Jacqui's team has been proven to make training much more effective, in terms of staff productivity, performance and business results. In this discussion with Peter Ryan, Jacqui talks about vulnerable customers. How do businesses define their vulnerable customers and how can they design CX that works better for customers with special needs or the need for greater consideration? Vulnerability in CX design is often overlooked, but it is essential and for many types of regulated business this is mandatory. SUMMARY: Peter introduces Jacqui Turner, who emphasizes the importance of understanding and addressing vulnerabilities in customer service. Jacqui highlights that vulnerability can manifest in various forms, including age, health issues, financial struggles, and digital illiteracy. She stresses the need for organizations to have policies and training for handling vulnerable customers across different communication channels. Jacqui also advocates for AI technology to be designed with vulnerability in mind to maintain accessible communication.
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Rob Joubert - Boomerang BPO - Building CX Success Over 20 Years
02/05/2026
Rob Joubert - Boomerang BPO - Building CX Success Over 20 Years
Rob Joubert is the founder and CEO of Boomerang BPO. He is based in Cape Town, South Africa. 2025 was the 20th anniversary year for Boomerang, so at the end of the year Peter Ryan called Rob to talk about BPO and CX trends and what it takes to build a successful BPO operation from the ground up. 20 years into the journey, what has Rob learned about what clients want from a BPO partner in the 2020s?
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TUI & Transcom On Building A Best In Europe Partnership
01/29/2026
TUI & Transcom On Building A Best In Europe Partnership
Last November, Leigh Hopwood, CEO of the CCMA (Contact Centre Management Association), was on the CX Files talking about the 25th anniversary of the European Contact Center and Customer Service Awards (ECCCSAs). At those awards on November 25th 2025, The Best Customer Service Into Europe award was won (gold) by TUI working with Transcom. Peter Ryan recently called Leo Ooms (TUI) and Dario Bakovic (Transcom) to talk about the award and what it takes to build a BPO partnership that can win a prestigious 'Best in Europe' award... --- Leo Ooms Head of Customer Services BPO TUI Group Dario Bakovic Head of Global Accounts EMEA at Transcom
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CX Files 400 - Live in London
01/22/2026
CX Files 400 - Live in London
This special live episode was recorded on January 21, 2026 live in London, UK. This is the 400th episode of the podcast. Lian Rowlands quizzed Peter and Mark about the origin of CX Files and what they plan for the future of the podcast... Thanks to everyone who attended the live event in London last night - it was great to see so many friends of the podcast out in person!
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Happy New Year From The CX Files!
12/31/2025
Happy New Year From The CX Files!
Happy New Year for 2026 from Peter and Mark at the CX Files podcast. We asked our listeners to send some thoughts about 2025 and the year ahead... If you listen to this episode you will hear messages from the Netherlands, Philippines, UK, South Africa, Australia, Canada, and Brazil... that's North America, South America, Europe, Africa, Asia, and Australasia all covered! Contributors listed in the order they feature on the podcast: Leo Ooms Nathan Muniz Lian Rowlands Rod Jones Paul O'Hara Michael Gray Anna Bessarabova Michael Clark Mike Ortegon Stephen Loynd David Neale Peter Ryan Mark Hillary ---- “All I Want for CX-mas (Is the Future)” Composed by Mark Hillary with Suno Verse 1 Snow’s falling on the dashboards, Year-end reports are due, Another season of predictions, But nobody knows what’s true. From São Paulo to Montreal, Different skies, same screen, Two voices cut through the noise, Talking ’bout what CX means. Pre-Chorus The year’s been long, the change came fast, AI hype, then lessons learned, But now we’re looking forward, To the value still to be earned. Chorus All I want for CX-mas is the future, Not the buzzwords, not the fear, Just better service, smarter choices, And a little more trust next year. From every brand to every customer, Let’s build it human, let’s build it right, All I want for CX-mas is the future, And the CX Files on a Wednesday night. Verse 2 Agents, bots, and blended teams, Journeys changing shape, Less about the tech itself, More about escape From broken processes, From friction no one sees, Designing moments that feel simple, Even when the systems aren’t easy. Pre-Chorus We’ve learned that scale needs patience, And strategy beats speed, The future’s not autonomous, Unless it serves a real human need. Chorus All I want for CX-mas is the future, Not another pilot that won’t land, Just outcomes, empathy, and clarity, Finally working hand in hand. From every continent and culture, One community, one shared view, All I want for CX-mas is the future, And the CX Files guiding us through. Bridge From São Paulo sunshine, To Montreal snow, Two hosts, one question: “Where do we go?” Analysts, founders, leaders, friends, Four hundred stories, and still it never ends. No silver bullets, no easy claim, Just better questions changing the game. Final Chorus All I want for CX-mas is the future, Designed with care, not just code, Where trust is built in every interaction, And experience carries the load. So here’s to 2026 and beyond, To curiosity, courage, and insight, All we want for CX-mas is the future, And the CX Files lighting the way each night. Outro So press play, pour a drink, Let the old year fade from view, The future of CX is being written— And it starts with me and you. 🎄✨
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CX Files 400 Live In London! Get Your Free Ticket Now!
12/11/2025
CX Files 400 Live In London! Get Your Free Ticket Now!
Celebrate CX Files Episode 400 — Join Mark Hillary and Peter Ryan Live in London for an Exclusive Networking Event! CX Files Episode 400 Live in London – January 21, 2026 Join Mark Hillary and Peter Ryan, co-hosts of the CX Files podcast, for a special live networking event in London as they celebrate the show’s 400th episode! This informal evening brings together members of the global Customer Experience (CX) community for drinks, conversation, and connection. Mark will be flying in from São Paulo, Brazil, and Peter from Montreal, Canada — a rare chance to meet both hosts in person. They will also have copies of the CX Files book - to be launched at this event in London. During the event, Mark and Peter will record a short live segment for the 400th episode in front of the audience, marking this milestone moment in the CX Files journey. Tickets are free, but you do need to register so we can control the numbers. Click this link to register your place for this live CX Files event.
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