CX Files

CX Files features your hosts, CX industry analysts Mark Hillary and Peter Ryan, speaking each week to leading analysts, thinkers, and practitioners focused on managing the Customer Experience (CX). In each episode Mark and Peter talk to their guests about the future of CX, the important trends, and what customers really expect from brands today.

Victor Manzanera - Scale Edge Group - Beyond FTEs – The Road to Outcome-Based BPO Pricing 10/15/2026

Victor Manzanera - Scale Edge Group - Beyond FTEs – The Road to Outcome-Based BPO Pricing CX Files Episode 435: Beyond FTEs – The Road to Outcome-Based BPO Pricing Guest: Victor Manzanera, Founder and Principal Analyst, Scale Edge Group – Oslo, Norway Everyone in the BPO industry is talking about outcome-based pricing, but how do we actually move away from charging for headcount and hours? And is the industry ready for such a fundamental change? In this episode of CX Files, Mark Hillary and Peter Ryan explore the challenges of traditional BPO contracts before Mark interviews Victor Manzanera, founder of Scale Edge Group. Victor has just published The Outcome-Based BPO Model, a 33-page report examining how BPO buyers and suppliers can gradually transition from traditional FTE pricing towards contracts that reward genuine business outcomes. Key discussion points include: Evolution, not revolution: Why outcome-based pricing requires a gradual transition rather than an overnight replacement of FTE contracts. Rethinking KPIs: Why traditional performance metrics often have little connection to the business outcomes clients actually want. Sharing the rewards: How gain-sharing agreements and meaningful bonuses can encourage BPOs to improve efficiency, customer retention, and revenue. The AI incentive problem: Why headcount-based contracts can discourage automation and how new commercial models could accelerate AI adoption. Beyond pricing: Why achieving better outcomes may require different agent skills, training, technology, and operating models. Practical next steps: How buyers can start changing their BPO relationship immediately, even without renegotiating their entire contract. Victor argues that the most important change is not simply how BPOs get paid, but how buyers and suppliers define success and work together to achieve it. The central message: Stop buying people and hours. Start building partnerships focused on business results. Victor's report, The Outcome-Based BPO Model, was published by Scale Edge Group on October 14, 2026, and is freely available through Scale Edge Group - link is below. --- Summary & Overview The discussion examined a gradual shift from FTE pricing to outcome-based BPO relationships, including incentives and prerequisites for adoption. Hybrid Transition Victor argued that pricing and performance measurement can evolve separately: companies can keep FTE contracts while aligning KPIs and incentives to business outcomes. Buyers and BPOs need to agree on the company’s actual objectives; excessive or conflicting operational KPIs can obscure results and limit BPO ownership. Incentives and Readiness Bonuses tied to outcomes such as efficiency, first-contact resolution, revenue, or reduced churn can reward BPOs for improvements and support AI adoption. Transaction pricing is most viable with reliable volume forecasts, handle-time data, and contractual volume protections. How can companies without these prerequisites create aligned incentives while retaining FTE pricing? /episode/index/show/cxfiles/id/43298639

Peter Ryan - Ten Years of BPO: What Changed, What Didn’t, and What Comes Next 10/08/2026

Victor Botto - TP - Why Kenya Is Ready for the Global CX Stage 10/01/2026

Victor Botto - TP - Why Kenya Is Ready for the Global CX Stage In episode 433 of the CX Files, Mark Hillary talks to Victor Botto, Vice President for Business Development for Sub-Saharan Africa at TP, about why Kenya deserves far more attention as a global CX and BPO location. Victor explains why Kenya’s opportunity goes well beyond lower-cost customer service. They discuss the country’s highly educated workforce, deep experience in fintech and tourism, its growing technology ecosystem, and the importance of an employee-first culture in building better customer experiences. The conversation also explores the bigger African opportunity. Could establishing CX operations in Kenya give global companies not only a new delivery location, but also valuable experience and insight into one of the world’s fastest-growing consumer markets? Topics include: Kenya as an alternative global BPO hub, fintech and M-Pesa, tourism and hospitality expertise, the “Silicon Savannah” technology ecosystem, employee experience, talent development, and Africa’s future consumer growth. ------ ------ Overview / Summary Kenya was presented as a high-value CX and BPO destination whose advantages extend beyond labor cost. Strategic Position Victor described Kenya as a diversification option for companies facing saturation, rising costs, attrition, and talent competition in established hubs. Kenya offers a GMT+3 time zone, C1 English proficiency, cultural familiarity with Western markets, and a BPO career path viewed as desirable by graduates. Sector Expertise Digital experience with M-Pesa supports fintech and digital-wallet service operations through lived understanding of payment issues. Tourism and hospitality experience supports empathetic, flexible customer service for airlines and travel companies. Nairobi’s technology ecosystem includes engineering, cloud, automation, AI data operations, fintech, and software development capabilities. Open Questions How quickly can Kenya build market awareness, delivery capacity, specialized accreditation, and infrastructure to compete with mature hubs? Can companies use Kenyan operations as a platform for broader growth in African consumer markets through the Africa Continental Free Trade Area? /episode/index/show/cxfiles/id/43122223

Brian Riback - CMSWire 2025 Contributor of the Year - Beyond AI Visibility: How Brands Build Trust 09/24/2026

Brian Riback - CMSWire 2025 Contributor of the Year - Beyond AI Visibility: How Brands Build Trust Brian Riback is the CMSWire 2025 Contributor of the Year. Brian is a strategic leader with over 20 years of experience as a CRM and retention specialist. He ias based in New Jersey, USA. In June 2026, Brian published a detailed article exploring how brands can build trust in the era of AI discoverability. The article was titled "How CMOs Build Brand Trust Across AI Search, Agents and Answer Engines." In this conversation with Mark Hillary, Brian describes his ideas around how to operationalise trust - a process he calls TrustOps after a paper by Andrew Frank from Gartner. --- For over two decades CMSWire, produced by , has been the world's leading community of customer experience professionals. Today the CMSWire community consists of over 5 million influential customer experience, customer service and digital experience leaders, the majority of whom are based in North America and employed by medium to large organizations. --- Summary: Outline AI Discoverability and Trust AI tools increasingly influence how buyers discover and evaluate B2B providers. Visibility alone is insufficient; companies must control the credibility and context surrounding their brand. Content and Websites Content should identify its author, publication timing, sources, and relevant questions. Websites should validate AI-generated recommendations with use cases, case studies, testimonials, trust indicators, and accessible human support. AI-generated content can assist production, but authority depends on original expertise and evidence rather than volume. Trust Operations A proposed trust-operations function would coordinate marketing, communications, PR, legal, IT, and cybersecurity. The group would create playbooks and manage risks affecting brand representation across AI systems. Measurement and Alignment Brian recommended emphasizing qualified leads, pipeline movement, conversion, and nurturing rather than impressions or unmeasurable awareness. Marketing and sales should share revenue accountability while maintaining clearly defined roles. Current Work Brian is developing Version Lab, a tool for creating audience-specific versions of ads and emails, and continuing his writing for CMSWire. /episode/index/show/cxfiles/id/43017643

Jeton Aliu - Olymp BPO - Why Kosovo Is Emerging as a CX Hotspot 09/17/2026

Jeton Aliu - Olymp BPO - Why Kosovo Is Emerging as a CX Hotspot In this episode of the CX Files, Mark Hillary and Peter Ryan look at the changing European nearshore landscape before Peter talks to Jeton Aliu, Founder and CEO of Olymp BPO in Pristina, Kosovo. Jeton explains why Kosovo is becoming an increasingly important CX and BPO delivery location. He discusses the rapid growth of the local outsourcing industry, the availability of a young and multilingual workforce, and Kosovo’s particular strength in languages including German and English. The conversation also explores the growth of delivery beyond Pristina, government support for the industry, and the biggest challenge still facing Kosovo: building greater international awareness and trust as a serious European outsourcing destination. Mark and Peter also discuss how the traditional European nearshore model is changing, as countries once viewed primarily as outsourcing locations increasingly become consumer markets themselves — creating a much more complex European CX delivery landscape. Summary: Kosovo was presented as a growing, multilingual European nearshore BPO destination with strong potential but limited global awareness. Industry Growth The BPO sector has expanded significantly since the early 2010s, with approximately 20,000 professionals across more than 120 companies. BPO and ITO reportedly generated more than $2.3 billion in 2025 and 2026, becoming a major contributor to economic growth and youth employment. Pristina is the primary hub, while Prizren, Peja, Ferizaj, and Gjilan have growing delivery centers. Competitive Advantages Kosovo offers English, German, French, Italian, Spanish, Dutch, Norwegian, Danish, and other language capabilities. German and English are especially competitive, supported by diaspora connections and multilingual education beginning in childhood. The country is described as safe, accessible, cost-competitive, and supported by government grants for newly formed BPOs. Growth Challenges How can Kosovo increase international market awareness and build trust with prospective buyers? Yeton identified recognition and education about Kosovo’s BPO capabilities as the main challenges to industry maturation. KIESA, the Kosovo Investment and Enterprise Support Agency, was identified as a source of additional information. /episode/index/show/cxfiles/id/42939142

Matt Fry - eClerx - Culture Is 50/50: Why Clients Can’t Blame the BPO 09/10/2026

Matt Fry - eClerx - Culture Is 50/50: Why Clients Can’t Blame the BPO In this episode of CX Files, Mark Hillary talks to Matt Fry, SVP for AI, CX and Digital Transformation at eClerx and publisher of The CX Marketplace, about why culture cannot simply be outsourced. Inspired by Matt’s Substack article Culture Cannot Be Outsourced, the conversation explores why successful CX partnerships require shared responsibility between clients and BPO providers. They discuss culture during the RFP process, employee engagement and attrition, the importance of client involvement, and how relationships can move beyond SLAs and penalties toward shared ownership of the customer experience. Matt also explains why culture may be even more important as AI, automation and agentic technologies reshape customer service. ----- Culture Cannot Be Outsourced The CX Marketplace Summary: Matt explains why creating a successful BPO relationship requires a shared 50-50 responsibility for culture between the client and the service provider. Cultural Partnership Matt Fry argues that corporate culture in contact centers cannot be outsourced and must be a collaborative effort between the BPO and the client. While it is common to assume the BPO is solely responsible for maintaining a positive environment, Matt suggests that clients must actively participate to ensure deep engagement. Clients should focus on transferring "why" something matters rather than just transferring technical processes or product knowledge. Effective integration involves leadership from both sides engaging with the operational environment to build mutual purpose. A lack of client engagement can lead to employees feeling like anonymous resources, especially as AI and automation make work more transactional. Strategic Procurement Matt notes that traditional RFP processes often fail to capture cultural compatibility because they focus on static values rather than dynamic behaviors. To find true partners instead of transactional vendors, companies must reframe their selection criteria. Questions should focus on how organizations will solve problems together when performance falls short. The goal is to assess whether both parties are willing to modify their operating models to support long-term collaboration after the contract is signed. Governance Evolution Transitioning from a vendor-client relationship to a partnership requires shifting governance away from pure metric monitoring toward shared outcomes. Matt highlights that relying solely on SLAs, targets, and penalties keeps a relationship stuck in a transactional state. Meetings should move beyond discussing missed targets or service credits to address customer insights and avoidable demand. Trust is built incrementally when a supplier identifies risks early and brings innovative solutions rather than just focusing on the scorecard. How can cost-sensitive sectors balance the expense of cultural integration with the high costs of attrition caused by poor culture? /episode/index/show/cxfiles/id/42845535

Andrew Kokes - Pivot AI Global - If AI Can’t Find You, Your Buyers Won’t Either 09/03/2026

Andrew Kokes - Pivot AI Global - If AI Can’t Find You, Your Buyers Won’t Either Peter Ryan talks to Andrew Kokes, Chief Marketing Advisor at Pivot AI Global, about how AI is fundamentally changing B2B marketing and sales. As buyers increasingly use ChatGPT, Gemini, Claude and other AI platforms to research suppliers and build shortlists, traditional search engine visibility is no longer enough. Andrew explains why companies now need to think about AI discoverability — ensuring that answer engines understand who they are, what they do, and why they should be recommended. The conversation explores why clear positioning and a well-defined niche matter more than ever, how websites need to evolve from digital brochures into machine-readable knowledge bases, and why credible third-party articles, analyst coverage and customer reviews can influence whether AI recommends a business. For CX and BPO providers, especially smaller and emerging companies, the message is simple: doing great work is no longer enough. You also need to make sure the machines know about it. Mark Hillary's book "If AI Can't See You, You Don't Exist" Summary: Mark Hillary and Peter Ryan discuss the evolving landscape of customer experience (CX) and business process outsourcing (BPO) with Andrew Kokes, Chief Marketing Advisor for Pivot AI Global. They explore the concept of discoverability, emphasizing the shift from traditional Google searches to AI-driven answer engines like ChatGPT and Gemini. Kokes highlights the importance of clear positioning, consistent messaging, and third-party validation for smaller BPOs to remain relevant. He also stresses the need for a modern digital strategy that caters to both AI and human audiences, including maintaining up-to-date, accessible content. The conversation underscores the necessity for a fundamental rethink in marketing strategies to adapt to AI's impact on search and discovery. /episode/index/show/cxfiles/id/42713970

CX Files Is On A Summer Vacation 08/03/2026

Simma Kularatna - Interact - LinkedIn Has Lost the Plot - Can the CX Community Fix It? 07/30/2026

Jim Farnsworth - HiOctayne - Restoring Investor Confidence In BPO 07/23/2026

Jim Farnsworth - HiOctayne - Restoring Investor Confidence In BPO Jim Farnsworth is Founder and CEO of HiOctayne. He is based in Denver, Colorado. Jim has a long history as a senior leader within and advisor to multiple BPOs and CX experts. He is therefore well placed to comment on why the publicly traded BPOs have seen their share price collapse - and what can these companies do to recover? Publicly traded BPO and CX companies have faced a dramatic collapse in investor confidence over the past few years. Mark Hillary and Peter Ryan open this episode by exploring how AI disruption, falling valuations, short sellers, and weak industry storytelling have allowed analysts and investors to define the future of the sector. Peter then speaks with Jim Farnsworth, founder and CEO of HiOctayne, about why the market increasingly views traditional BPO companies as vulnerable labor-arbitrage businesses rather than growth companies. Jim argues that BPOs need to stop positioning themselves as technology companies and instead demonstrate how they can deliver customer outcomes through a blend of AI, automation, analytics, and human expertise. The conversation also explores whether privately owned firms have an advantage over publicly traded businesses because they can plan beyond the pressure of quarterly results. Summary: Mark Hillary and Peter Ryan discuss the challenges faced by publicly traded BPOs, noting significant losses and declining share prices over the past few years. They highlight the impact of AI on the industry, with companies like Klarna announcing major workforce reductions, leading to a negative narrative. Jim Farnsworth, a BPO industry expert, emphasizes the need for BPOs to redefine themselves as hybrid entities combining human and AI capabilities. He suggests that private equity-owned BPOs may have an advantage due to less pressure from quarterly market expectations and more strategic flexibility. The conversation underscores the importance of storytelling and strategic positioning in the evolving CX landscape. /episode/index/show/cxfiles/id/42191560

BONUS: Mark Hillary - If AI Can’t See You, Buyers Won’t Either: The New Rules of B2B Sales 07/22/2026

BONUS: Mark Hillary - If AI Can’t See You, Buyers Won’t Either: The New Rules of B2B Sales If AI Can’t See You, Buyers Won’t Either: The New Rules of B2B Sales In this special bonus episode of CX Files, Peter Ryan turns the microphone on his co-host Mark Hillary to discuss Mark’s latest book, If AI Can’t See You, You Don’t Exist: How B2B Sales Changed Forever. Mark explains how AI platforms such as ChatGPT, Gemini, and Claude are transforming the earliest stages of the buying journey. Potential clients are now using AI to define their problems, compare solutions, investigate suppliers, and create shortlists—often before a salesperson knows that an opportunity exists. The central message is that content can no longer be treated as a minor marketing activity. Original articles, interviews, podcasts, case studies, and executive insights have become part of a company’s sales infrastructure: the public evidence AI systems use when deciding which businesses to recommend. Mark and Peter also explore why generic, automatically generated content is unlikely to build authority, why valuable material must be publicly accessible rather than hidden behind paywalls, and why podcasts and videos should be supported by transcripts that AI platforms can read. Mark shares a striking example of ChatGPT recommending an earlier CX Files interview when asked about the impact of AI on contact centres—demonstrating how credible expert conversations can directly influence AI-generated answers. The episode offers a practical introduction to the book’s central warning: companies that fail to make their genuine expertise visible may disappear from the buyer’s consideration before the formal sales process has even begun. --- --- Send Mark Hillary a direct message on LinkedIn with your email address if you want to receive a free PDF copy of the book - or feel free to go and order a copy via Amazon if you prefer a "real" book. --- Summary: Peter Ryan and Mark Hillary discuss Mark's new book, "If AI Can't See You, You Don't Exist," which explores the transformative impact of AI on sales and marketing, particularly in BPOs. Mark highlights how AI tools like ChatGPT, Gemini, and Claude are changing client behavior, emphasizing the need for high-quality content to engage AI systems. Peter shares examples of using AI for event planning and content accessibility. They stress the importance of visibility in AI-driven marketing and offer listeners a free PDF of Mark's book upon request. The conversation underscores the evolving landscape of sales and marketing strategies influenced by AI. /episode/index/show/cxfiles/id/42180705

Jessica Pleffken and Ana Marvulle - P&M Marketing - No One Outsources to a Company They’ve Never Heard Of 07/16/2026

Jessica Pleffken and Ana Marvulle - P&M Marketing - No One Outsources to a Company They’ve Never Heard Of Jessica Pleffken is the founder and CEO of Pleffken & Marvulle Marketing. Ana Marvulle is co-founder and managing partner. Jessica and Ana both have a long history working inside CX and BPO companies and now their specialist marketing company advises companies working in the CX environment. Both Jessica and Ana are based in São Paulo, Brazil. Jessica and Ana explain why the traditional separation between marketing and sales no longer works. BPO buyers now conduct extensive research before contacting a provider, using LinkedIn, client referrals and AI platforms such as ChatGPT, Claude and Perplexity to compare companies and build shortlists. Marketing must therefore do more than generate leads: it must establish trust, demonstrate operational capability and ensure that the company presents a clear, consistent and credible story across its website, content, sales materials and public reputation. The conversation explores how sales, marketing and operations can work as a single growth system with shared priorities and metrics. Jessica and Ana also argue that BPO companies need stronger client advocacy, genuine case studies and evidence of results rather than generic claims. Their final advice is simple: write for customers rather than industry peers, avoid unnecessary jargon and explain clearly what the company actually does. In an AI-driven buying environment, the providers that communicate with the greatest clarity and credibility will be the easiest to discover - and the easiest to trust. Summary: Mark Hillary and Peter Ryan discuss the evolving landscape of customer experience (CX) and marketing in the business process outsourcing (BPO) industry. They highlight the importance of integrating marketing and sales due to changes in client behavior, particularly the increased use of AI for shortlisting BPOs. Jessica Pleffken and Anna Marvulle from P&M Marketing in São Paulo emphasize the need for a unified growth system, shared metrics, and simple, clear communication to build trust and credibility. They stress the importance of aligning marketing and sales strategies, understanding client needs, and maintaining consistent messaging to enhance brand reputation and client acquisition. /episode/index/show/cxfiles/id/42104485

Tugs and Adrian Smith - ATAC Global CX - Proof, Not Promises: Certifying the Remote Contact Center Agent 07/09/2026

Muhammad Yahya Patel - Huntress - Cybersecurity Is Now a CX Problem 07/02/2026

Donald Berryman - ProfectusCX - The Future For The Enterprise-BPO Relationship 06/25/2026

Lara Klick - Klick Advisors - Why Patient Feedback Rarely Leads to Better Care 06/18/2026

Guillaume Luccisano - Yuma AI - The Great CX Reset: Why BPOs May Need a New Business Model 06/11/2026

Guillaume Luccisano - Yuma AI - The Great CX Reset: Why BPOs May Need a New Business Model The BPO Industry Isn't Dying. But It May Need to Reinvent Itself Faster Than Anyone Expected. Yuma AI CEO Guillaume Luccisano argues that customer experience providers must evolve from labor arbitrage specialists into AI orchestrators and systems integrators—or risk becoming irrelevant. For years, critics of the business process outsourcing industry have predicted its demise. First it was robotic process automation. Then conversational AI. Then Generative AI. Yet the industry survived every previous wave of disruption because technology changed the way work was delivered rather than eliminating the need for the service itself. In episode 420 of the CX Files, Guillaume talks to Mark Hillary about these changes and how BPOs may need to adapt. -------------- Summary: Mark Hillary and Peter Ryan discuss the impact of AI on the BPO industry, featuring Guillaume Luccisano, CEO of Yuma AI. Luccisano argues that traditional BPO models are outdated, emphasizing AI's potential to automate 100% of customer service within 2-3 years. He highlights Yuma AI's success in deploying AI agents since 2023, achieving automation rates up to 89%. Luccisano predicts a significant shift in the job market due to AI, suggesting BPOs must evolve into systems integrators to survive. He also notes the cost efficiency of AI, with interactions costing under $1 compared to $4-$8 for human agents. ---- The BPO Industry Isn't Dying. But It May Need to Reinvent Itself Faster Than Anyone Expected. Yuma AI CEO Guillaume Luccisano argues that customer experience providers must evolve from labor arbitrage specialists into AI orchestrators and systems integrators—or risk becoming irrelevant. For years, critics of the business process outsourcing industry have predicted its demise. First it was robotic process automation. Then conversational AI. Then Generative AI. Yet the industry survived every previous wave of disruption because technology changed the way work was delivered rather than eliminating the need for the service itself. But according to Guillaume Luccisano, founder and CEO of Yuma AI, this time may be different. Speaking on Episode 420 of the CX Files podcast, Luccisano argued that the traditional BPO model—selling customer service through large pools of human agents—is facing a challenge unlike anything it has encountered before. His view is stark: AI is no longer just helping agents do their jobs better. It is increasingly capable of doing the job itself. And if that trend continues, the industry will need to redefine its purpose. The End of the "Cost Per Interaction" Era Luccisano's company specializes in AI-powered customer service automation for retail and e-commerce brands. He claims some clients are already automating the vast majority of customer interactions. What has changed, he argues, is that AI is no longer limited to answering questions from a knowledge base. Modern AI agents can access customer records, understand context, follow workflows, execute transactions, and complete tasks. In other words, they are moving beyond information retrieval and into operational execution. This matters because the traditional BPO business model has largely been built around charging for human effort—whether measured in agents, hours, seats, or interactions. If AI can handle increasing volumes of customer contacts at a fraction of the cost, then the economics begin to shift dramatically. A contact that once required several dollars of human labor may eventually be resolved for a few cents in computing costs. Even if those figures are debated, the direction of travel is becoming difficult to ignore. The Problem Isn't Technology. It's Incentives. One of Luccisano's most interesting observations is that many outsourcing providers are already talking extensively about AI. The question is whether they are deploying AI to genuinely transform operations or merely adding enough AI to satisfy customer demand while protecting existing revenue streams. That creates an uncomfortable tension. A provider whose business depends on thousands of agents has little incentive to aggressively deploy technology that could reduce the number of agents required. As Luccisano noted, many providers find themselves caught between serving today's business model and preparing for tomorrow's. The challenge is not technical. It is organizational. And perhaps even existential. Why Investors Are Nervous The sharp decline in the share prices of several publicly traded CX providers has fuelled speculation about the sector's future. Luccisano believes investors are not simply reacting to hype. They are attempting to price in a future where customer service becomes significantly more automated, more efficient, and therefore less dependent on large labor-intensive operations. Whether investors have overreacted remains open to debate. But the market is clearly asking a difficult question: What happens to a company built around managing tens of thousands of customer service agents when customers increasingly expect AI-driven efficiency? The answer remains uncertain. But it is a question every provider now has to confront. The Hidden Complexity Most Critics Ignore To his credit, Luccisano does not dismiss the value that BPOs create today. Customer interactions are only one piece of a much larger operational puzzle. Large CX providers manage compliance requirements, regulatory obligations, security controls, multilingual operations, workforce management, governance frameworks, quality assurance, and complex integrations across dozens of markets. Replacing an individual customer service interaction with AI is one thing. Replacing the entire operational framework surrounding customer service is something else entirely. This is where many simplistic predictions about the "death of BPO" fall apart. The institutional knowledge accumulated by major outsourcing firms still has value. The question is whether that value can be repackaged. From Outsourcer to Systems Integrator Perhaps the most important idea from the conversation was Luccisano's belief that the future role of the BPO may look less like a labor provider and more like a systems integrator. Rather than selling headcount, providers could sell expertise. Rather than managing agents, they could manage AI agents. Rather than staffing operations, they could design, orchestrate, govern, optimize, and continuously improve AI-enabled customer experience ecosystems. This is a subtle but profound shift. It moves the provider higher up the value chain. The emphasis shifts from execution to orchestration. From labor to outcomes. From workforce management to intelligent systems management. Ironically, this would bring some BPOs closer to the role that companies like IBM, Accenture, and other major technology integrators evolved into years ago. A Difficult Transition The challenge, of course, is that transformation is easier to describe than to execute. Reinventing a startup is one thing. Reinventing a global organization employing hundreds of thousands of people is another. Many of today's largest CX providers are highly successful businesses with established customer relationships and predictable revenue streams. That success can become a barrier to change. The dilemma is obvious. How aggressively should a company invest in technologies that could cannibalize its own business? History suggests that incumbents often struggle with precisely this problem. The Bigger Question Perhaps the most controversial part of Luccisano's argument extends beyond outsourcing entirely. He believes AI is creating a broader economic transformation that will affect many knowledge-based professions, not just customer service. Software engineering, consulting, administration, legal services, and customer experience are all beginning to feel the effects. If he is right, then the debate is no longer about whether AI will change customer service. The debate is about how quickly institutions can adapt to a world where intelligence itself becomes abundant and inexpensive. The Future May Belong to the Adaptable The most important takeaway from this discussion is not that BPOs are doomed. In fact, Luccisano repeatedly acknowledged that some providers will survive and potentially thrive. But survival may depend on abandoning the assumption that customer service is primarily a labor business. The providers that succeed could be those that become trusted advisors, AI operators, governance experts, and systems integrators. The providers that fail may be those that continue selling people when customers increasingly want outcomes. The outsourcing industry has reinvented itself before. The question now is whether it can do so again—at the speed AI demands. /episode/index/show/cxfiles/id/41576145

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Stephanie Reeves Millner - Designing CX For Sales and Revenue 05/14/2026

Andrew Hall - Ethenta - Enterprise Agentic AI Transformation 05/07/2026

Nathan Muniz - 247Secretary.com - Raw, unpolished BPO content outperforms glossy marketing 04/30/2026

Gary Slade - TP - Why Stability Is the New Battleground in BPO 04/23/2026

Sarah Leff - Interact CC - Why the Eastern Cape Could Be South Africa’s Next CX Powerhouse 04/16/2026

Chris Chance - CCI Global - Africa Rising For CX 04/09/2026

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Melanie Disse - Melanie Disse Consulting - Acting on Customer Feedback 03/26/2026

Gareth Bray - Premier CX - Why Customers Prefer WhatsApp 03/19/2026

Gareth Bray - Premier CX - Why Customers Prefer WhatsApp Gareth Bray is Business Development Director and WhatsApp Guru at Premier CX. He is based in Odiham, Hampshire, UK. Over 100 billion WhatsApp messages are sent daily by users - that's more than a million messages on the platform every second. Between 1 to 3 billion of these daily messages is a customer talking to a business. Gareth was on the Meta team when they launched WhatsApp in Europe so he has a long background using this asynchronous messaging tool. In many global markets WhatsApp has entirely redefined customer service. In Brazil and India it can be used to locate local businesses and almost all businesses engage with customers using WhatsApp. It's not so prevalent in the US (although still over 100m users) or Europe, but should more companies be looking at this tool? After all, as so many CX directors look to AI for a quick win, they could be exploring a tool that is used billions of times daily and offers a way to engage with customers that is much more convenient than webchat. It's also free for the customer and very low cost for the business. Mark Hillary called Gareth to explore WhatsApp and why more companies should be considering this messaging app. --- Summary: Mark Hillary and Peter Ryan discuss the rise of WhatsApp as a customer service channel, particularly in Brazil and India, with Gareth Bray from Premier CX. WhatsApp's asynchronous support allows for convenient customer interactions, improving efficiency and reducing costs by 85%. Bray highlights that 1 billion people weekly message businesses on WhatsApp, and the platform's user base in the US is growing rapidly. WhatsApp offers features like decision trees, video clips, and integration with CRM systems, enhancing customer experience and agent efficiency. The platform's automation and AI capabilities are also emphasized, with a focus on agentic AI that allows customers to accomplish tasks within a flow. /episode/index/show/cxfiles/id/40529860

CCW Berlin 2026 - Feedback Direct From The Floor 03/12/2026

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