Educating to Be Human Podcast

A bi-weekly podcast hosted by Lisa Petrides, CEO and Founder of the Institute for the Study of Knowledge Management in Education (ISKME), “Educating to Be Human” explores what it means to be human in today’s evolving cultural and societal landscape. In each episode, Lisa speaks with people whose work addresses the challenges and possibilities of how we might educate and inspire transformative change in modern society, which reaches beyond the traditional classroom. In Season 2, we examine who controls access to knowledge, how learning is accelerated through embodied experiences, and how education is essential for resilience and connection in an evolving world. Think if Big Ideas Fest were a podcast, Educating to Be Human is born from the desire to keep the conversations going and making the knowledge we have gained and stories we've heard accessible to all. By bringing these unique voices into the podcast world, we are furthering ISKME’s commitment to make learning and knowledge-sharing participatory, equitable, and open. Educating to be Human is hosted by Lisa Petrides, produced by Helene Theros, recorded by Nathan Sherman, and edited by Ty Mayer. Season 2 music is created by Orestis Koletsos.

Reflecting on Season 2: Centering Our Humanity in Education 02/03/2026

Rural Education and the Power of Community with Kassi Talbot 11/04/2025

RERUN: The Power of Place with Ruth Mostern 10/14/2025

On Faith, Community Organizing and Belonging with Fr. Jon Pedigo 09/30/2025

On Faith, Community Organizing and Belonging with Fr. Jon Pedigo In this episode of Educating to be Human, Lisa is joined by Jon Pedigo, known by some as Father Jon. He is a longtime social justice advocate and activist, faith leader within the Catholic diocese of San Jose, and the new executive director of People Acting in Community Together, or PACT. In conversation, they explore what it means to rebuild connection in a time of deep division, how faith communities can act as ancient technologies for compassion and healing, and the power of grassroots organizing to help people claim their own agency and voice, particularly in difficult times. Fr. Jon Pedigo, a Bay Area native, has been active in civic affairs and social justice causes for over 35 years in the Bay Area. Working with the interfaith community of Silicon Valley, labor, community organizers, and civil rights activists, Fr. Jon was just named the Executive Director for PACT, People Acting In Community Together. In his previous position as the Director of Advocacy and Community Engagement for Catholic Charities of Santa Clara County, he developed a methodology of trauma-informed community organizing for people living in chronic poverty, refugees, and immigrant families. Fr. Jon has been acknowledged as a social justice advocate for immigrants and social change by many local organizations and received commendations from various public officials. Resources: Transcript: 00:00:06 - 00:33:16 Jon Pedigo: The core of our humanity and what defines us isn't these separations, but it’s our ability to care and heal. And through that kind of impulse religions kind of evolved as a technology to pull out of the best of humanity, our ability to connect to each other and to connect to the divine. 00:33:18 - 01:04:06 Lisa Petrides This is Educating to be Human. And I'm your host, Lisa Petridis, founder of the Institute for the Study of Knowledge Management in Education. In each episode, I sit down with ordinary people, creating extraordinary impact people who are challenging notions of how we learn, why we learn, and who controls what we learn. Thank you very much for listening. 01:04:08 - 01:45:23 Lisa Petrides I'm so delighted to be speaking with Jon Pedigo today. Also known by some as Father Jon and he is a longtime social justice advocate and faith leader within the Catholic Diocese of San Jose, California, and the new executive Director of People Acting in Community Together or PACT. Pact. And in our conversation, we explore what it means to rebuild connection in a time of deep division and how faith communities can act as ancient technologies for compassion and healing. 01:46:00 - 01:56:00 Lisa Petrides And the power of grassroots organizing to help people claim their own agency and voice. So welcome, Jon and thank you for being with us here today. 01:56:01 - 01:58:01 Jon Pedigo: Thanks, Lisa. 01:58:03 - 02:17:24 Lisa Petrides So we're living in a time of fragmentation, right? Deep polarization, ICE raids in cities, authoritarian impulses on the rise. I mean, even technology is threatening to replace human connection. What do you see as the defining challenges of this moment? 02:18:01 - 02:51:22 Jon Pedigo: What are defining challenges of this moment really are in just the profound loss of relationships that are in our community, the sort still profound separation, the divorce that happens in families because of ideology and politics. And in many cases, for good reason that people just simply aren't safe in their homes or in their families. They're not feeling safe in their churches and not feeling safe in their workplaces. 02:51:24 - 03:13:06 Jon Pedigo: They can't really speak their mind. They can't speak out of their heart. So it is not just policy and politics, but it is this very bizarre impulse of division that really is more like a divorce and not a disagreement. And that's kind of where we're coming from on this. 03:13:08 - 03:23:18 Lisa Petrides: So in the face of this fear and hostility and division, what role can faith communities and spiritual traditions play in bringing people together? 03:23:20 - 04:09:03 Jon Pedigo: Yeah, that's a great question. I was actually giving a talk the other day, and I brought this, I used religion as a kind of explaining it as, like an ancient technology that, is used to enhance, magnify, amplify our most human dimension, which is compassion and caretaking. Like Margaret Mead said, the sign that she found. And I think there's an old saying, but she just said that the the oldest sign, the oldest indication of human civilization is a healed femur, because that would indicate that the humanoid that was injured was cared for rather than left. 04:09:06 - 04:42:19 Jon Pedigo: And if you're kind of cutting one's losses that this member of this group of humanoids had felt that it was important that we need to kind of stay together and including this weak person this kind of this link that isn't the strongest. And so that indicated that there was, a decision of care. So that would indicate that at the core of our humanity and what defines us isn't these separations, but is our ability to care and heal. 04:42:21 - 05:13:00 Jon Pedigo: And through that kind of impulse. Religion's kind of evolved as a technology to pull out of the best of humanity, our ability to connect to each other and to connect to the divine. However, that was defined by early human groupings and societies to find a way to protect and to nurture each other, and especially to pay attention to the weakest among us. 05:13:02 - 05:37:23 Jon Pedigo: And so that religion, that dimension is dependent on three things. First is that we're connected to each other, that we are connecting out of concern that there is a there's a connection, a social bond, a connection that kind of a I don't know what you would call it, a kind of a covenant. Although that covenant with that concept evolved much, much later. 05:37:23 - 05:54:15 Jon Pedigo: But there is a a real bond of connectivity. The second thing that's important to recognize is that this bond is connected to actual everyday decisions, right? You know how we're going to actually do things, how we're going to run our how we're going to run our tribe, how we're going to run our our society are going to run this village. 05:54:21 - 06:25:06 Jon Pedigo: It's with that concern. And the third part is, of course, the divine is that, that that cover all overall sense of that. We stand before some kind of force that could be defined as a nature, could be defined as a spiritual contact, a certain existential dimension of us, that we're connecting to that. So those three pieces kind of bring together what what kind of early religions, religious systems. 06:25:08 - 07:13:21 Jon Pedigo: And so religion is that technology. The work that I do today, you know, hundreds of thousands of years later is, you know, it hasn't changed that much, especially in community organizing, that we spend the time to understand the impact of, of injuries caused by poverty, violence, lack of access to housing, the constant fear of lives being separated, destroyed by deportation, or just the trauma of having violent experiences, of having to leave one's own country, not out of one's own will, but out of necessity, working with people that have seen death, that have lost their children in a jungle, crossing a river, in the Darien Gap. 07:14:02 - 07:34:09 Jon Pedigo: People walking across countries. These are people that we know. These are people that are our base. And there's this trauma that's happened. And so our work is, first of all, understanding the human reality that we are broken by this. And so, you know, when we talk about human organizing, it's not just jumping into an issue like if, I'm snapping my fingers, ha. 07:34:11 - 08:07:08 Jon Pedigo: It's not like an issue of jumping into like, let's agitate people for change. Our work is doing trauma informed organizing, which is really addressing to understand the dynamic of broken realities, of broken dreams, of of separation and understanding that and and trying to pull out of that person their ability to see themselves not as a victim, but as a protagonist of their own destiny, which means that we we work and get people to move forward in that, in that place. 08:07:08 - 08:08:19 Jon Pedigo: So that's a starting point we go to. 08:08:19 - 08:30:01 Lisa Petrides Yeah. And I want to ask you about that. So I think what I've just heard you say is sort of talking about how faith is underlying this sort of driver, this very powerful driver of collective action and belonging. And I want you to speak a little bit more about community organizing, because I know that's really central to your work today. 08:30:03 - 08:45:07 Lisa Petrides So if you could tell us a little bit about the organization that you work with - PACT - and you've already described how that work intersects with your calling as a faith leader. But tell us a little bit more about that. And, and, and how you carry out this work. 08:45:08 - 09:18:01 Jon Pedigo: Okay. Before I do that, before too, I just want to kind of make, a kind of a little footnote that the word faith is not understood in the same way by different religious traditions. And faith, for some, it's a subscription to Creed-le statements. For others, it's an existential stance before the universe. So, like, we work with Buddhists that don't have, a particular, subscription to deity or anything like that. 09:18:06 - 09:51:09 Jon Pedigo: So, so. And we were the Unitarians that don't that really don't have a specific God to which they worship. And then we also work, obviously with traditional Christians, Jews, Muslims. But when we work in interreligious spaces, as with, faith leaders, we understand that, you know, we're working with multiple religious traditions and what we try to find as what's that common piece around that sort of going back to what my work is, we try to understand what's that healing factor? 09:51:09 - 10:34:06 Jon Pedigo: What's that healing dimension in that tradition? How is that lived out? How does that experience of being in this particular community that has rituals, that has, prayers or sacred texts, sacred practices or special practices that foster a healing process and that that bring people together that talk about the power of gathering and the necessity of bringing all people together, that we this is the kind of work that we do because we see those ancient technologies as ways in which we can create spaces of healing and spaces of self-empowerment and discovery. 10:34:08 - 10:55:19 Jon Pedigo: When we kind of create committees, they're often created out of a particular faith tradition. But these different committees that are in each community, different faith communities, because we work with faith communities, they work with Unitarians, are working with Catholics, are working with Jews and working with different, Buddhists and working with people that don't have a particular spiritual home, per se. 10:55:21 - 11:21:05 Jon Pedigo: And we're all working on this together because we're looking at the values that we belong to. These faith communities. It’s great. It helps us understand who we are, gives us identity, a place and location, as it were. But more than that, it allows us to see the inherent love and community and goodness in others. And so that's that's kind of what community organizing is able to do. 11:21:06 - 12:09:18 Jon Pedigo: It kind of fosters that, that radical hospitality and that radical listening. When we do that in a faith setting or at a setting in a church or a synagogue or Gujarat or whatever, you know, faith community, we are all across the board of different, different spaces. When you do that, you are kind of creating this moment for people to really express themselves as how they how they feel. They want to express it. Right. You know, like a, a Baptist is going to be certainly differently expressing himself or herself or themselves than differently than a Catholic from Honduras. And so that we just kind of we as organizers, we just, we just create that space for dialog and understanding. And we try to and we work towards what, what do we have in common. 12:09:19 - 13:45:06 Jon Pedigo: We don't kind of create find issues that would separate us and put us further into the corners. But we see what are the common realities, and the common realities are always about what's happening in our lives. What's preventing us from participating fully in society. What’s preventing us from being our full, authentic selves in school or in a in a workplace or in, you know, even in our own communities, what’s really going on. And so we look at PACT to people acting in community together, that we're in 22 different congregations, and we're in Santa Clara County from Gilroy all the way up through Sunnyvale. We've given workshops and talks in Palo Alto. So it's we cover the entire county. We are currently working on four different campaigns, two very big ones, and two other smaller ones are on the back burner. But there's still going the the two primary ones are, affordable housing and immigrants. And particularly the specific issue we're looking there is is assuring that due process is covered for all immigrants, regardless of their immigration status and or their ability to pay for a lawyer that in this country, we have, we have our our fundamental belief is due process. And part of that is one is, is being able to be represented in the court. And then we have also, public safety, which is, you know, obviously just, you know, parks, relationship to the police, you know, violence, you know, cleanliness, traffic safety, those are part of that public policy kind of cover. 13:45:06 - 14:07:17 Jon Pedigo: And then the other one is mental health, and that's kind of intersecting. We're fighting right now, especially with mental health crises brought on by the militarization and the military occupancy of, of different cities. That makes everybody very fearful. And we have people that are very afraid to, you know, go out to eat, go to church, take the kids to school. 14:07:23 -14:34:17 Jon Pedigo: Kids are are not going to school as much right now. So we're seeing, just the performance, the education performance is really definitely, related to the increased presence or the threat of presence of ICE in the community. So we are very well aware of that. But we have in the past, we've had education. Education reform has been part of PACT’s issues along with it. 14:34:18 - 14:45:18 Lisa Petrides It really seems, as you were talking about this and of course, myself as an educator, all that you're talking about, I know it's about community organizing, but so much of it seems like it's a it's a form of education, right? That that. 14:45:18 - 14:45:23 Jon Pedigo: It really is. 14:45:23 - 14:54:05 Lisa Petrides Reorganizing itself. Is that right? You're teaching people how to connect and belong and and build resilience together. 14:54:07 - 16:04:22 Jon Pedigo: Exactly. One of the things we do for education that we continue to do even now? It's not a specific campaign. Is most of our people are moms. Most people are making under $50,000 a year. We have one zip code where the average wage of, Latinos is at $20,000 or less. A lot of them are, amas de casa, are housewives. Their, their partner works 2 or 3 jobs. And so their primary job is to make sure the kids are in school, that they're doing their homework. And these are moms that are monolingual and often have a, you know, have not really had a lot of experience talking to, teachers. And so we work with our leaders are, you know, learn how to, kind of work with teachers and work with the moms and getting them to show up at PTA meetings and getting them to show up in spaces like that. So that's what can be organizing does even without a particular issue campaign around education. It is bringing leadership to people's lives and, giving capacity, a developing capacity in people to really, truly show up in all spaces. 16:04:24 - 16:36:16 Lisa Petrides I love what you've talked about in terms of building these deep partnerships across faith traditions. We can think of a lot of examples where that is not encouraged or allowed, which seems ridiculous in some ways. Because we're all living here together. And how do we do this? But how do you you know, I guess from maybe more of the inception of why you do the work you do, but why is this interfaith collaboration essential to building these kinds of resilient communities? 16:36:18 - 19:38:01 Jon Pedigo: Well, I want to go back to your original question about living in this broken time. Faith has been hijacked. It has been misappropriated by the far right. In fact, in all fascist regimes of the modern era from the 1900s to today, the rise of authoritarian style leadership comes in a, by taking a thin veneer of religiosity and claiming moral high ground, claiming to patria and, and moral good and all of these kinds of things are kind of melded together and they've, they've created these, these forces like Franco's Spain, we're looking at, we're looking at obviously Hitler. We're looking at a number of other regimes that the present, the modern Russia, Central American, leadership, South American leadership. And in this present United States, the rise of authoritarianism is is through the misappropriation of religion. And so it's really, really important that just your meat, potatoes, religious people that go to church understand what's happening to their own communities, their own religions, and how it's been how it's been kind of taken out of out of its appropriate context. So it's very disheartening to me to see religious leaders from mainstream churches, including me, in my own tradition, my own Catholic tradition, where they, in a sense, visibly and verbally apologize for and support figures and people in power that are associated with the rise of authoritarianism. It's very disheartening to see that it's confusing to people. But I think with the advent of with social media and just a lot of conversations, which is what can the organizing does, we create these spaces for neighbors to speak to neighbors and parishioners to speak to parishioners and people to speak across different race, racial, ethnic, economic lines. And these conversations are happening all over the place where people are recognizing, wait a second, this is not our conversations are yielding a very different conclusion than what I'm being taught by either reading it in the paper or hearing it on mainstream news, or being heard preach from a pulpit that there's something else that's here that that we need to understand. And so people, when they're connecting people to people, they're starting to see through this, this BS. 19:38:03 - 20:03:18 Lisa Petrides Yeah I mean I kind of want to say what is it these that these faith traditions could be doing differently today to sort of rebuild trust and nurture belonging. And I love that we're seeing that in the work that you do. There's so much that's not happening that way is there's some other places that others can start. And and I have another question too. I'm just going to throw it in, like throw it in. 20:03:18 - 20:04:01 Jon Pedigo: Throw it. 20:04:02 - 20:16:21 Lisa Petrides Yeah. And how do you reconcile those contradictions in your work? Right. With your training and your background? How do you reconcile those contradictions? And then I'm kind of asking, what can the rest of us do, right? 20:16:23 - 20:21:22 Jon Pedigo: Okay. Well, I am not the best example. I wasn't raised Catholic. I was raised kind of Buddhist. 20:21:24 - 20:23:16 Lisa Petrides Okay, tell me about that. 20:23:18 - 20:56:02 Jon Pedigo: So yeah, my mom was Buddhist and my dad was he was Protestant, you know, Baptist slash Methodist. And they made a decision that that my brother and I would have to make decisions about what kind of... /episode/index/show/educatingtobehuman/id/38406935

The Promise of Public Diplomacy with Paul Kruchoski 09/16/2025

The Promise of Public Diplomacy with Paul Kruchoski In this episode of Educating to Be Human, Lisa Petrides is joined by Paul Kruchoski, a former senior diplomat at the U.S. State Department and often described as a changemaker within the institution, about the human side of public diplomacy and its deep ties to education. Far from being abstract negotiations behind closed doors, public diplomacy is about learning across borders, listening across cultures, and building the kinds of relationships that make peace possible. Paul shares insights from his work leading initiatives like the Open Book project, which brought openly licensed educational materials to educators across the Middle East and North Africa. He also reflects on how programs like Fulbright create lasting networks of connection, and what it means to push for change inside large bureaucracies. Together, Lisa and Paul explore the promise and the fragility of diplomacy today. Paul Kruchoski is a former senior U.S. diplomat and a career member of the Senior Executive Service. In his final role at the State Department, he served as the chief operating office for public diplomacy, managing a $1.5 billion budget and 5000 person global organization. His won the State Department's Sean Smith Award for Innovation in the Use of Technology. Previously, Paul led the creation and growth of the Research and Evaluation Unit (REU), which helps Public Diplomacy practitioners use evidence and knowledge to make better informed decisions. Previous assignments include Deputy Director of the ECA Collaboratory, Special Assistant in the Bureau of Educational and Cultural Affairs, and several positions in the Bureau of International Organization Affairs. He is a term member of the Council on Foreign Relations and a graduate of the University of Cincinnati. Outside of his work, Paul is an accomplished cellist. Full Transcript: Paul [ 00:00:00 ]When you talk about what it means to educate to be human and why public diplomacy connects into that, there's this great line from the UNESCO constitution: that since wars began in the minds of men, it is in the minds of men that the defenses of peace must be constructed. Lisa [ 00:00:22 ]This is Educating to be Human, and I'm your host, Lisa Petrides, founder of the Institute for the Study of Knowledge Management in Education. In each episode, I sit down with ordinary people creating extraordinary impact, people who are challenging notions of how we learn, why we learn, and who controls what we. Thank you very much for listening. Lisa [ 00:00:53 ]Today on Educating to be Human I'm delighted to be speaking with Paul Kruchowski. Paul, a former senior diplomat at the US State Department who was often described as a change maker within that institution, is here with me today to explore the idea of public diplomacy. We often think of public diplomacy as simply the government's way of representing nations abroad, but at its core it is, or will be again, really about education in the broadest sense: helping people learn about one another, exchanging ideas, and humanizing differences that might otherwise feel abstract. That resonates deeply with what we have been asking here on Educating to be Human. Why is it important to cultivate the skills, values, and curiosity that allow us to connect across boundaries? Many ways, public diplomacy is about listening, engaging, and influencing all at once. And most importantly, it's about recognizing our shared humanity. So welcome, Paul. I am truly glad to have you here today. Thank you for joining me Paul [ 00:02:08 ]; it's a delight to be here. I'm really happy to get to have this conversation with you and to share it with other people too. Lisa [ 00:02:17 ] Great! So I think, as we get going, you know, we talk about these words, public diplomacy. And how would you explain that public diplomacy to someone, say, at a dinner table who's not heard the term before? Paul [ 00:02:31 ] Yeah, so public diplomacy is two things: It's the way that a government engages with the public in another country and also the way that we connect people in one country with another country, right? So, government to people and people to people. And that's really different than government to government diplomacy, where you generally have people in institutional power talking, trying to work things out. And because of the different way that public diplomacy works, it has some kind of different goals to it too. And we really talk about public diplomacy being aimed at four things: Understanding informing, influencing, and building relationships between people in the United States and people in countries around the We do that through a bunch of different ways, but that's really what it is at its core. And it really comes back historically to this really interesting moment in time at the end of World War Two that also created a lot of the other institutions that we have come to know and love today. So, I think when you talk about what it means to educate, to be human, and why public diplomacy connects into that, there's this great line from the UNESCO Constitution that "since wars began in the minds of men, it is in the minds of men that the defenses of peace must be constructed." The guy who wrote that is a poet and former State Department official as well, named Archibald MacLeish. He was really influential and helped write and stand up UNESCO. But he was also one of the senior-most public diplomats at that kind of early moment in the Cold War period. And I think this ethos that he embedded in the UNESCO Constitution is what animated a lot of what public diplomacy is today, right? And why we do it. Paul [ 00:04:32 ] It's this idea that we can have a freer, more peaceful world if people understand each other, and you build those connections beyond just the government to government work Lisa [ 00:04:44 ]Yeah, and that we thank you. I think that really helps us understand how this is important not only for governments and government to government, but people and people to people, and people to governments. And that reminds me of a project that you and I worked on, or that I was grateful and lucky enough to be part of some years ago, that was really about education diplomacy, which is something also that I think people don't think of when they think of diplomacy. And it was called the Open Book. And maybe you could tell a little bit about that project? It was it was a collaboration between the Department of Education and the U S. State Department. Paul [ 00:05:25 ]Yeah, so the thrust of Open Book and then why we started doing it. So the idea was that we wanted to figure out ways that we could create some openly licensed educational materials in Arabic. And I think a lot of us, and particularly some of your listeners, may know about OER, open educational resources, and open education and the movement of the United States, which is really designed in a lot of ways to liberate, to bring out creativity in the educational movement and also reduce costs for a lot of people. But, you know, in a lot of other languages and places around the world, you don't even have choices about textbooks. You may not have textbooks available. You know, college students complain, I think rightfully, that they're now on the 19th edition of some core book that gets updated every other year, and you can't use the old editions. But when I, when I and many of my colleagues were talking to students at universities in the broader Arab world, they're still using textbooks where the last edition was published in the 1970s. That became a really big problem for thinking about how you cultivate an entire education sector, how you connect them across borders, but also create opportunities for them to be learning from some of the same standards and opportunities in their native language. And we really wanted to figure out how we could pull that together and do it as a joint project between the U. S. and many of our partners in the Arab world, where we have this joint interest in doing that, this joint interest in exposing people to greater ideas with fewer barriers to entry along the way. Lisa [ 00:07:13 ]Yeah, and what was quite amazing about that project is there were a group of 15 or 20 higher education faculty and administrators who came to the U. S. on an exchange and then, of course, went back the other way as well. But what was so telling about that for me, at least, as we began, was putting educators from the U. S. and from the MENA region, the Middle East North African region, together and meeting as friends and educators and talking about what the needs were of education and how they're met and not met. And when I just think about how that creates such a synergy, such a greater understanding of who we are, what we deal with in our classrooms, in our institutions, in our society, yeah, I think the idea of creating an openly licensed textbook that was more than 50 years old was certainly a goal. But I think that what surrounds that, the relationships, the understanding, the, you know, of course, the building of the materials themselves, but this other piece seems to play a much greater role when we think about, you know, what public diplomacy is like the Fulbright, right? That's another example I think of just an exemplary program. Maybe you could talk a little bit about the context of what it means when we put education into the diplomacy mix as opposed... I think people think about diplomacy as something you do around wars and, you know, or post-war or something like that, or to avoid wars. And education is such a decor as how we think about these things. Paul [ 00:09:01 ]You're touching on something that's really fundamental about what diplomacy is, which is it is about people and relationships. It is not about always the things you do together, right, or the outcomes, or specific tangible things that manifest out of that. And I think Open Book is a really good example of that, that you know we started originally with this idea of why don't we just figure out how to write and publish an Arabic language textbook. And, as often happens when you start to think about it from a public diplomacy perspective, you don't just write a textbook and hand it off to people. That's not actually a smart or good intervention. The investment and cultivation of a relationships build something that may produce a textbook; it may produce some other things but it sustains itself over time through the power of those relationships. And I know you know I think we launched Open Book in 2016. I have talked to you several times since then, and you've stayed in touch and continued to exchange notes and do work with some of the people that you met through that program. And if we had just produced a textbook, okay it may be out there, but then we would be one and done, right? It is a thing that exists instead of a network or a community that is sustained over time. And when you think about the larger framework of how U. S. public diplomacy and how we think about education diplomacy fitting into that, it's the same idea, right? That what you are doing is you are building networks; you are building communities through the programs and experiences that people have that continue to share knowledge, continue to exchange views, continue to humanize each other even when you may see something in the news that may otherwise try to put you on opposite sides from one another. And what I found so many times in the work that I've done is when people have those genuine relationships, it's harder for people to be othered because they know someone. They know someone who lives in country X, Y, Z that we are in conflict or in tension with. And those ties are what allow a bigger picture, countries to sustain peaceful relationships with one another. When you have a place where people hate, when you have a place where people have contempt for another country, another group of people, it makes it easier to be in conflict, to be at war, to hurt someone. But when you know that they're members of a community just like yours, when you know that they have a family just like yours, that they have parents, whether they have kids or not, they have kids around them, and it just humanizes it for everyone. And I think that that has been hugely successful, not just for the United States but for the whole country. And you spoke about the Fulbright program, which is probably the best-known public diplomacy or education diplomacy program we have, where students have an opportunity to study in another country. Foreign students in the U. S., U. S. students abroad, and scholars can go through that exchange as well. And it builds these incredible ties of knowledge, but also just human relationships, that, I think, are part of why the US has been able to thrive so much over the last half century is because of that dense set of relationships that we've built around the world. Paul [ 00:12:43 ]It's also why the Fulbright Program is kind of unique among government programming, where we co-fund it with many of the other countries that participate in it. It is a bi-national program by design. We co-own the program with each country that we run it in. They participate in the governance the same way we do. And I think that becomes a really, really valuable thing in a moment where even in the worst times we can say we still have this in common. We still have a joint interest in helping our people connect, of exchanging ideas, of growing together, of thinking about the trajectory of our people in our society. Lisa [ 00:13:24 ] Yeah, and that's just such a beautiful example and way to put the sort of role that public diplomacy plays in helping societies, helping us recognize our shared humanity, which is really seems to be the most important thing that we could be doing today and 50 years ago as well. Well, you know, I want to kind of shift a little bit because in this work that you have been doing in the past, you've often been described as a change maker inside maybe one of the more bureaucratic institutions, like the State Department. But what does it mean to push for change in a system like that? Paul [ 00:14:02 ]Yeah, so two things are definitely true about an institution like State, and I think most other capital-I institutions. The institution as it exists serves someone well, and it is deeply imperfect. And those two things sit in tension, right? We can complain about the bureaucracy, about the stifling things that exist in a place like state, but the things that feel stifling clearly serve someone well. If you can't figure out who it is, you probably have not dug enough, right? So for me, a lot of what being a change maker in State has been, has been looking out and saying what is not serving the end goals that we have well? What is not taking care of people well? What is under delivering? Who is that system currently serving? And how do I help deal with the losses that they will experience? All changes to any institution or to anything entails some form of loss, and a lot of what change is is helping people grapple with the loss and also figure out themselves - what loss can be positive for them? What loss can be compromised with where you find a little to gain a little to lose? To how do you help people grieve along the way? I, you know, I have worked on two major reorganizations at State now. And the first question that I always ask people as we start going into a reorg process is: at moments of change, what are things that you are really excited to let go of? Lisa [ 00:15:46 ]That's a great question. Paul [ 00:15:47 ]And I think when we think so much about change as a moment of loss and uncertainty, thinking about how you can take some of the locus of energy back and say, OK, what would I like out of this process of change? What sings a song in my heart? And then, as a leader, try to be good about inventorying those and trying to make them real for as many people as you can. Lisa [ 00:16:16 ]Can you give an example? I completely get that in theory, right? Like you're trying to balance maybe, in some cases, top-down government priorities with the more human bottom-up engagement piece. Can you share an example of something like that? Paul [ 00:16:32 ]Yeah, so I'll talk about one that I think about a lot from kind of the early in my career, so mid-2010s at State. Policymakers always really want to connect with young people, right? There is a directive that we will connect with young people, and they generally have things that they wanna talk to young people about I helped write the State Department's Youth Policy in 2011. And you know, young people really don't like being talked to by institutional figures. They wanna have a two-way conversation. Most policymakers don't really wanna do that. Like, they have an idea about what they wanna get out of a dialogue. They have a very clear outcome in mind. And that means that when you're in the middle, like I am, you can do some really interesting things, like say, hey boss, if you want to get to outcome X with the young people, you really have to be able to talk to them about why. I can go out and talk to them. And in that period, a lot of it was about climate, right? And State at that time was not talking a about the climate change. But you ended up in this very interesting place where you can get the policymakers at the highest level to listen if you can help them see that the outcome they want is only possible through engaging with what the grassroots or what the bottom of the system looks like. And that is a repeated theme over my career. Like sometimes to get to where you wanna be with young people around you, you have to be able to talk about climate change. You have to be able to talk about LGBT issues in a coherent way. You have to be willing to grapple with what internet freedom means. And if you don't, you can explain to people at the top of an institution that they are never going to get to the outcome they want. And that's language that they often understand. And like being in the middle like that can be a really powerful place if you can figure out how to channel up, channel down, so that you can get people to compromise somewhere in the middle, which is a lot of what diplomats do, right, is being in the often not having a lot of institutional power but having the power of relationships to figure out how you get people to a place where they can all feel like they're winning a little bit. Lisa [ 00:19:04 ]Yeah, let me ask let me kind of delve more into that too. You know I know you talk and write about uncertainty and complexity in diplomacy, right? And you're kind of getting into the weeds of that now, right? So how do diplomats like navigate uncertainty? And is there something we all can learn from that as we are also trying to be change makers and in education and do the things that we do? Paul [ 00:19:30 ]Yeah, so when people think about diplomacy, they mostly think about two things. There's a really great board game called diplomacy that is the worst depiction of actual real-world diplomacy I've ever seen because the entire thing is based on deceit, right? It is a game that is entirely about how you can not reveal information and mislead other people. Where the business that diplomats are in is exactly the opposite, right? Your word is the only thing that is good, and you can never lie if you want people to trust what you say. And all we do is talk. When I talk about lessons from diplomacy, listening and figuring out how to insightful and incisive questions is the core of the work that we do. And listen not just for the words that people are saying, but to the point I just made: to listen for the deeper meaning of what they're trying to express that they may or may not be able to articulate or be able to say out, and then figure out how to... /episode/index/show/educatingtobehuman/id/38239240

RERUN: Monsters with Erin O'Connell 09/02/2025

AI in the Classroom: Power, Bias and Opportunity with Maha Bali 08/19/2025

Why Community Colleges Matter More Than Ever with Keith Curry 08/05/2025

Why Community Colleges Matter More Than Ever with Keith Curry In this episode of Educating to Be Human, Lisa dives into education that is truly rooted in the community, with Dr. Keith Curry, President of Compton College. His efforts to address the real-life challenges that students face at community college are remarkable: meeting basic needs (such as food, housing, textbooks), achieving academic success, and finding job opportunities after completion of certificates and degrees. Lisa and Keith also talk about leadership in times of uncertainty—how to lead in an environment of fluctuating budgets, and federal and state policy shifts, and in a terrain that is shifting before our eyes. For Dr. Curry, equity isn’t a slogan. It’s about institutionalizing support systems, embedding change, and ensuring that student success isn’t left to chance. Dr. Keith Curry is the President of Compton College and CEO of the Compton Community College District. Dr. Curry is responsible for overseeing all departments and functions of Compton College and the District and serves as secretary for the CCCD Board of Trustees. He brings an abundance of energy and innovative ideas to Compton College, along with a wealth of experience as a postsecondary education administrator. Dr. Curry co-founded and chairs Black Student Success Week. He currently serves as chair of both the National Panel on Black Student Enrollment and the Black Student Enrollment Expert Advisory Committee. He was a member of the California Alliance for Open Education Steering Committee and the University of Southern California Racial Equity in Guided Pathways Commission Task Force. His recent honors include the 2025 California Legislative Black Caucus Unsung Hero Recognition from the 65th California Assembly District, the 2024 Diverse Issues in Higher Education Diverse, the 2024 African American California Community College Trustee and Administrators Caucus Chief Executive Officer of the Year Award, and the 2024 University of California, Santa Cruz - Alumni Awards. Dr. Curry earned his doctorate in educational leadership from the University of California, Irvine, and a bachelor’s degree in American studies from the University of California, Santa Cruz /episode/index/show/educatingtobehuman/id/37677085

Libraries at Risk: Access, Preservation, and Cultural Memory with Chris Freeland 07/22/2025

Taking the Mystery Out of Menopause: Educating for Better Care with Joanna Strober 07/08/2025

Food Justice Begins in the Classroom with Stephen Ritz 06/24/2025

When Meditation Replaces Detention, with Atman Smith 06/10/2025

When Meditation Replaces Detention, with Atman Smith In this episode of Educating to be Human, Lisa speaks with Atman Smith, founder of the Holistic Life Foundation, about the transformative power of bringing mindfulness, yoga, and meditation into not just schools, but also rehab centers and senior living centers. What began as a personal journey in search of deeper meaning evolved into a community-led program in West Baltimore—one of the most underserved and over-policed neighborhoods in the U.S.—focused on healing and self-regulation. Atman shares how early interventions with students frequently sent to detention led to the creation of the Mindful Moment program, a trauma-informed model that replaces punishment with presence. Over time, their work has grown from a single after-school offering to a nationwide movement rooted in the belief that real learning happens from the inside out. Together, they explore what it means to center emotional well-being in education, the resistance and rewards of shifting school culture, and why teaching students to breathe might be one of the most radical things we can do. ---- Atman Smith is a co-founder of the Holistic Life Foundation, a Baltimore-based organization that has brought yoga and mindfulness to underserved communities since 2001. His work spans drug treatment centers, mental health facilities, schools, and corporations around the world, with a focus on supporting high-risk youth. A former University of Maryland basketball player, he holds a B.A. in Criminology and Criminal Justice. Atman's impact has been widely recognized, with features on Good Morning America, CNN, The Oprah Magazine, and Steven Spielberg’s Why We Hate. He co-authored Let Your Light Shine, contributed to academic research on the effects of mindfulness on urban youth, and was named a 2024 "Game Changer" by Baltimore Magazine. Resources: Holistic Life Foundation, Let Your Light Shine: How Mindfulness Can Empower Children and Rebuild Communities, On Instagram and ---- Educating to be Human is hosted by Lisa Petrides, produced by Helene Theros, recorded by Nathan Sherman, edited by Ty Mayer, with music by Orestis Koletsos. Please subscribe and listen to Educating to Be Human on Apple Podcast, Spotify or wherever you listen to your podcasts, leave a review, tell your friends and share our episodes on social media. And don’t forget to follow on Instagram and on Bluesky /episode/index/show/educatingtobehuman/id/36927015

A Thousand Pounds of Learning with Wendy Millet 05/27/2025

Reflecting on Season 1: Lessons in Community, Creativity, and Change 04/15/2025

Reflecting on Season 1: Lessons in Community, Creativity, and Change In Season 1 of Educating to Be Human, we asked questions—about creativity and curiosity, change and adaptation, empathy and self-worth. We spoke with changemakers in classrooms, communities, and prisons, all committed to reimagining education as a powerful lever for transformation. In this special bonus episode, host Lisa Petrides looks back at the voices and ideas that shaped our first season—and shares a glimpse of what’s ahead in Season 2. New stories, deeper questions, and continued exploration of what it means to educate—and live together as humans. This special episode features clips from interviews with: Erin O'Connell, university classics professor Ashanti Branch, Founder of Ever Forward Club and Million Mask Movement: Ruth Mostern, Professor of History and Director of the World History Center at the University of Pittsburgh , and founder of theWorld Historical Gazetteer project: Joel Westheimer, Professor of Education at the University of Ottawa and author of "What Kind of Citizen? Educating Our Children for the Common Good" Nina Barbuto, founder of Chris Miller, co-founder of Life Plays Mihalis Eleftheriou, founder of Sara Goldrick-Rab, author of "Paying the Price: College Costs, Financial Aid, and the Betrayal of the American Dream: Julius Cave, Regional Director for The Literacy Lab’s Southern region Jody Lewen, President of Mt. Tamalpais College at San Quentin Rehabilitation Center (formerly San Quentin Prison), Educating to be Human is hosted by Lisa Petrides, produced by Helene Theros, recorded by Nathan Sherman, edited by Ty Mayer, with music by Orestis Koletsos. Please subscribe and listen to Educating to Be Human on Apple Podcast, Spotify or wherever you listen to your podcasts, leave a review, tell your friends and share our episodes on social media. And don’t forget to follow on Instagram and on BlueSky /episode/index/show/educatingtobehuman/id/36153655

Beyond Recidivism, Higher Education in Prison with Jody Lewen 12/10/2024

Beyond Recidivism, Higher Education in Prison with Jody Lewen Welcome to Episode 10, the Season 1 finale of Educating to Be Human. Host Lisa Petrides sits down with Jody Lewen, President of Mt. Tamalpais College at San Quentin Rehabilitation Center (formerly San Quentin Prison), the first accredited independent 2-year liberal arts college dedicated to incarcerated students. A visionary leader and tireless advocate for equitable access to education, Jody has spent over 20 years expanding higher education opportunities for incarcerated students. Her work at San Quentin challenges traditional ideas of who education is for and envisons learning as a tool for empowerment and purpose. In this episode, Lisa and Jody discuss: The realities and barriers of offering higher education in prison. How to create inclusive learning spaces within correctional facilities. The life-changing impact education has on incarcerated students. Why education in prison matters for both the inside and outside world. Jody Lewen is president of Mount Tamalpais College, at San Quentin State Prison in Marin County, California. MTC provides a liberal arts Associate of Arts degree, as well as an intensive college preparatory program, to approximately 300 people incarcerated at San Quentin. MTC also provides support to higher education in prison practitioners and other stakeholders, including correctional administrators, funders, policymakers, and media, on creating academically excellent, inclusive in-prison higher education programs. Dr. Lewen holds a Bachelor’s degree from Wesleyan University (modern European history); a Master’s degree from the Freie Universität, Berlin (comparative literature and philosophy); and a PhD from the University of California, Berkeley. She was the recipient of the Peter E. Haas Public Service Award from the University of California, Berkeley in 2006. In 2016, MTC (then the Prison University Project) received the National Humanities Medal from President Barack Obama. In 2018, Dr. Lewen was named a Frederick Douglass 200 awardee. In 2023, California governor Gavin Newsom invited Dr. Lewen to join the San Quentin Transformation Advisory Council. This year, she was awarded the McGraw Prize in Education, recognizing her contributions to the field of higher education. Resources: To donate to Mt Tamalpais College, visit: Follow Educating to be Human on Instagram at Follow Mt Tamalpais College at /episode/index/show/educatingtobehuman/id/34365220

Answering the Call: Young Men in the Pre-K Classroom with Julius Cave 11/26/2024

Answering the Call: Young Men in the Pre-K Classroom with Julius Cave In this episode of Educating to Be Human, Lisa is joined by Julius Cave, Regional Director of the Leading Men Fellowship, a program of The Literacy Lab. In a field where Black men make up only 1.3% of the teaching workforce, the Leading Men Fellowship is tackling this disparity head-on by recruiting young men of color to serve as pre-K educators. This initiative not only reimagines representation in early education but also transforms the classroom experience for students in historically marginalized communities. Julius and his team have developed a curriculum rooted in evidence-based literacy instruction while emphasizing cultural relevance and community-focused support. By empowering fellows and reshaping learning pathways, the program is diversifying the educator pipeline, fostering resilience, and planting the seeds for change in cities nationwide. --- Julius Cave brings over a decade of experience in education, spanning classroom teaching, administration, and nonprofit leadership. As Regional Director for The Literacy Lab’s Southern region, he oversees the recruitment, training, and placement of young men of color, ages 18–24, to serve in early childhood education classrooms where they provide evidence-based literacy support to children who live in historically marginalized communities while helping to diversify the educator pipeline. He is also tasked with building relationships with key community stakeholders to help support the Leading Men Fellowship locally and nationally. Prior to joining the Leading Men Fellowship originally as a Program Manager, Julius served as the Program Director at the Jumpstart Program at Georgia State University, where he recruited, onboarded, and developed college students to serve in preschool classrooms. Julius has also served as a lead high school history teacher in Houston, Texas, dean of students at one of Memphis, Tennessee’s highest performing middle schools, and as a 7th grade social studies teacher in Atlanta. A former Education Pioneers Fellow, Julius holds a Bachelors of Arts degree in political science and a Master of Arts degree in management from Wake Forest University. --- Resources The Literacy Lab: Leading Men Fellowship: Follow them on Instagram at & Twitter: Also mentioned in this episode: Profound Gentlemen - /episode/index/show/educatingtobehuman/id/34138981

Paying the Price with Sara Goldrick-Rab 11/12/2024

Paying the Price with Sara Goldrick-Rab In this episode of Educating to Be Human, Sara Goldrick-Rab, author of Paying the Price: College Costs, Financial Aid, and the Betrayal of the American Dream, joins us to explore the critical issues of housing and food insecurity faced by young people in college. A senior fellow at Education Northwest and adjunct professor at the Community College of Philadelphia, Sara brings insight into how students are being underserved by the very system meant to support their educational journey. We delve into the impact of these financial challenges on students' academic success, well-being, and future aspirations, illuminating the urgent need for reform in financial aid and institutional support. Our conversation launches a new arc in this podcast series, exploring the human capacity for change and adaptation. We reflect on humanity’s enduring ability to adapt across behavior, thought, and culture—essential traits for survival and progress. Sara's work urges us to consider a more adaptable, inclusive vision for college that supports students in both learning and life. Sara Goldrick-Rab is a scholar-activist whose pathbreaking research, teaching, and advocacy has changed how higher education understands and supports college students. A sociologist, she focuses on reducing poverty by revealing unheard truths and sharing that knowledge with multiple publics. Sara’s award-winning book, Paying the Price: College Costs, Financial Aid, and the Betrayal of the American Dream, documents the failures of policymakers and higher education institutions to make college affordable. Her scientific studies identifying and addressing college students’ basic needs for food, housing, childcare, transportation, and health supports sparked the internationally-known #RealCollege movement and inspired federal and state data collection and legislation, as well as countless privately-funded programs. Resources: Sara's book "Paying the Price: College Costs, Financial Aid, and the Betrayal of the American Dream: You can find Sara on X: Mentioned in this Episode: Scarcity: Why Having Too Little Means So Much: /episode/index/show/educatingtobehuman/id/33866762

Language Matters with Mihalis Eleftheriou 10/29/2024

Yes, And; Improv with Chris Miller 10/15/2024

Building Creative Spaces with Nina Barbuto 10/01/2024

Building Creative Spaces with Nina Barbuto In this episode of Educating to Be Human, we begin the second arc of our inaugural season by exploring one of the most essential aspects of being human—our boundless curiosity and extraordinary creativity. Lisa talks with Nina Barbuto, founder and executive director of Assemble, a nonprofit organization in Pittsburgh that serves as a community space for arts and technology education. More than just a makerspace, Assemble is a place where education and community intersect, fostering innovation and confidence through making. Lisa and Nina discuss how creation, curiosity and innovation are enhanced through hands-on learning experiences and engagement with Science, Technology, Engineering, Art, and Mathematics (STE(A)M) through hands-on learning experiences. They also dive into the concept of "social architecture," exploring how community spaces, like Assemble, can be flexible and adaptable to the needs of the people who use them, while allowing for self-expression and collaboration. Tune in to hear how architecture influences the way we experience space and community, and how Assemble exemplifies a unique blend of creativity, education, and innovation. Nina’s passion for art, new media, and social learning led her to found , a community space for arts + technology, in 2011. On her own, Nina works in a variety of media including architecture, film, sound, and installation, often exploring the idea of recycling noise into a system or elevating the vernacular to the spectacular. Nina co-founded I Made It! Market in 2007. An idea based on urban acupuncture, this nomadic market partners with community, arts, and non-profit organizations to raise funds and awareness to assist in improving their communities while allowing local artists and crafters to sell their wares. Nina holds degrees in architecture from Southern California Institute of Architecture and Carnegie Mellon University, where she is also adjunct faculty. /episode/index/show/educatingtobehuman/id/33277092

Teaching Democracy with Joel Westheimer 09/17/2024

Teaching Democracy with Joel Westheimer In this episode of Educating to be Human, Lisa speaks with Joel Westheimer, a professor of education at the University of Ottawa, author of "What Kind of Citizen? Educating Our Children for the Common Good", and a leading voice on democracy and civic education. As democratic societies face increasing global challenges as well as radically diminishing commitments to the notion of democracy internally, this episode explores how schools can play a pivotal role in fostering democratic values, civic engagement, and critical thinking among students. The role of education in democratic societies is unique, requiring more than just the standard curriculum of math, science, and literature, Joel argues. Schools must also teach students to ask hard questions, engage in the democratic process, and become informed citizens who can shape the future of their communities. How can schools balance these approaches to foster a more engaged and thoughtful citizenry, and how is this particularly vital in the face of current democratic challenges? With an incredibly pivotal presidential election around the corner, this discussion underscores the urgent need to rethink the role of civic education, preparing young people not only to succeed academically but to become effective, engaged citizens in a democratic society. Joel Westheimer is Professor and former University Research Chair in Democracy and Education at the University of Ottawa. He is also education columnist for CBC Radio. In addition to researching civic engagement and the role of schools in democratic societies, Westheimer studies broader school reform, teacher education, and education policy and practice. His most recent book (2024) is What kind of citizen? Educating our children for the common good, 2nd edition. "What Kind of Citizen? Educating Our Children for the Common Good" Follow Joel on X/Twitter @joelwestheimer Resources mentioned in this episode: Generation Citizen - I Civics - We the People curriculum - Mikva Challenge: /episode/index/show/educatingtobehuman/id/33086407

The Power of Place with Ruth Mostern 09/03/2024

Taking off the Mask with Ashanti Branch 08/20/2024

Monsters with Erin O'Connell 08/06/2024

Trailer, Season 1 08/02/2024

Educating to Be Human Podcast

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