PuSh Play

PuSh Play is a PuSh Festival podcast. Each episode features conversations with artists who are pushing boundaries and playing with form.

Ep. 78 - The Edges of Drag (TESTO) 01/27/2026

Ep. 78 - The Edges of Drag (TESTO) PuSh’s Artistic Director, Gabrielle Martin, speaks with Wet Mess about , coming up at the 2026 PuSh Festival: February 7 and 8 at Performance Works. Show Notes Gabrielle and Wet Mess discuss: The origins of TESTO, particularly in what it meant to take hormones like testosterone Drag as a tool to discover oneself onstage Drag as a devising tool to generate choreography, narrative, etc. The historical aspects of drag Making gender explorations joyful The different personas that Wet Mess explores The oscillation between comedy and vulnerability The origin of the name “Wet Mess” What did the process of making this work reveal to you? What is next for Wet Mess? About TESTO TESTO celebrates transitions, testosterone and the edges of drag–a chaotic, heartfelt, and hilariously unhinged deep dive into the mess of becoming. Here, performance and reality blur until what’s made-up somehow feels truer than truth. Expect moustache meals, dykey desires, and a choreography of guttural sexuality that pinches at the dull flesh of everyday life until it sparkles. At once absurd and sincere, TESTO finds the magical in the mundane—the moment when laughter curdles into revelation, and fantasy becomes flesh. It’s awkward, erotic, disarming, and deeply human: a love letter to transition, embodiment, and all our leaking edges. About Wet Mess Wet Mess is a wet mess, horny for your confusion. Let it all out and guess again at the insecure balding white man/pussy prince/alien baby. Have a lollygag, think about your fantasy flesh suits, call me sweet prince, and remember Roger in a robe. Choose to make some silly campy decisions, with all the hairy thems and dykey men. All I really wanna do is strip for the stripper and drive her homen with the dogs. Land Acknowledgement This conversation was recorded on the unceded, stolen and ancestral territories of the Coast Salish Peoples: the xʷməθkʷəy̓əm (Musqueam), Skwxwú7mesh (Squamish) and Səl̓ílwətaɬ (Tsleil-Waututh), colonially known as Vancouver. Wet Mess joined the conversation from London, UK. It is our duty to establish right relations with the people on whose territories we live and work, and with the land itself. Credits PuSh Play is produced by Ben Charland and Tricia Knowles. Original music by Joseph Hirabayashi. Show Transcript /episode/index/show/fead7325-224e-42bd-8687-9e1413d70f27/id/39690040

Ep. 77 - Ballroom! (The Motha’ Kiki Ball) 01/23/2026

Ep. 77 - Ballroom! (The Motha’ Kiki Ball) PuSh’s Artistic Director, Gabrielle Martin, speaks with Mother Bee Gvasalia, Savannah Sutherland, Ihomehe (“Legs”), and Menace Gvasalia about , coming up at the 2026 PuSh Festival: February 7 at the Birdhouse. Show Notes Gabrielle and her guests discuss: How did Blackout Collective begin and what was that specific moment that compelled it? The significance and meaning of ballroom as gathering and performance Balancing competitive fire with fierce tenderness with honouring roots How chosen families show up, especially in ballroom How ballroom judges work and what they are looking for The stories that ballroom tells Waves of new talent entering the scene The challenge of learning technique vs. competing The Ballroom 101 Rapid Fire Round! About The Motha’ Kiki Ball From vogue to runway, The Motha’ Kiki Ball crowns motherhood as the origin story, legacy, and creative force behind Ballroom. Black Out, a collective centering Blackness in the local Kiki scene, leads this year’s winter ball co-presented by PuSh and Van Vogue Jam. This Black History Month spectacular celebrates the power that gives life to cultures and movements. Expect looks that radiate iconic energy and a runway filled with matriarch moments. About BlackOUT Collective BlackOUT is a Vancouver-based Collective that centers Blackness within the Vancouver Kiki Ballroom scene. Our mission is to make Ballroom accessible to Black folks in Vancouver by creating entry points, fostering belonging and celebrating community. Since our inception in 2024, we’ve hosted several open sessions and produced “The Cookout Mini Kiki Ball”, Vancouver’s first Ball featuring an all Black production team and judging panel. Land Acknowledgement This conversation was recorded on the unceded, stolen and ancestral territories of the Coast Salish Peoples: the xʷməθkʷəy̓əm (Musqueam), Skwxwú7mesh (Squamish) and Səl̓ílwətaɬ (Tsleil-Waututh), colonially known as Vancouver. Savannah Sutherland joined the conversation from Accra, also called Ga, Ghana. It is our duty to establish right relations with the people on whose territories we live and work, and with the land itself. Credits PuSh Play is produced by Ben Charland and Tricia Knowles. Original music by Joseph Hirabayashi. Show Transcript /episode/index/show/fead7325-224e-42bd-8687-9e1413d70f27/id/39805980

Ep. 76 - From the Marrow (WAIL) 01/20/2026

Ep. 76 - From the Marrow (WAIL) PuSh’s Artistic Director, Gabrielle Martin, speaks with Vanessa Goodman about , coming up at the 2026 PuSh Festival: January 26 and 27 at the Scotiabank Dance Centre. Show Notes Gabrielle and Vanessa discuss: Vanessa’s current work and process on tour across the continent with BLOT The original impulses and images that inspired WAIL How the complexity becoming a parent today requires one to find joy in work What does it mean to navigate joy within community? How can joy be a regenerative force? The power of physiological change from performance How compression can be used in choreography The auditory and visual world of the piece The body as site between the individual and collective The meaning of collaboration and how to hold space for many voices About WAIL WAIL is a choreographic poem for our fractured moment. Six performers move through a shifting landscape of sound, light, and breath, their bodies echoing the patterns and distortions of the natural world. Drawing from botanical forms and auditory illusion, the work becomes a living ecosystem where motion and vibration feed each other—fragile, unruly, and alive. WAIL immerses audiences in a multi-sensory meditation on coexistence. Amid contrast and chaos, the work finds its rhythm in the act of collective joy: a wail that is both grief and celebration, a sound that gathers us back into the body of the world. About Action at a Distance and Vanessa Goodman Action at a Distance is based on the West Coast on the ancestral and unceded territories of the Coast Salish peoples, including the Sḵwx̱wú7mesh (Squamish), Stó:lō, Səl̓ílwətaʔ/Selilwitulh (Tsleil-Waututh), and xʷməθkʷəy̓əm (Musqueam) Nations. The company is led by Artistic Director Vanessa Goodman and Artistic Producer Hilary Maxwell. Their work carries meaning beyond aesthetics, using choreography as a means to explore liminality within humanity. This exploration questions the boundaries of the human experience, emphasizing the interconnectedness of bodies, technology, and the natural world. Their choreographic practice weaves together generative movement and sonic embodiment, creating immersive performative environments that aim to expand notions of identity, post-humanism and agency. Through their work, they seek to cultivate intimacy between the body and its surroundings, examining how these relationships redefine what it means to be an individual in a rapidly changing world. The company challenges conventional forms of performative hierarchy through collaborative approaches, inviting varied voices to reshape narratives around corporeality and Existence. Goodman has received several awards and honours for the Company’s works, including The Iris Garland Emerging Choreographer Award (2013), The Yulanda M. Faris Scholarship (2017/18), The Chrystal Dance Prize (2019 & 2024), the Schultz Endowment from the Banff Centre for Arts and Creativity (2019), The Isadora Award (2025) and participation in the "Space to Fail" program (2019/20) through Hyde Productions (NZ), Critical Path (AU), and The Dance Centre (CA). Longstanding collaborations include Graveyards and Gardens with Caroline Shaw, BLOT with Simona Deaconsecu, and multiple works with Loscil (Scott Morgan), Brady Marks, and James Proudfoot. Their works have toured Canada, the United States, Europe, and South America. Land Acknowledgement This conversation was recorded on the unceded, stolen and ancestral territories of the Coast Salish Peoples: the xʷməθkʷəy̓əm (Musqueam), Skwxwú7mesh (Squamish) and Səl̓ílwətaɬ (Tsleil-Waututh), colonially known as Vancouver. Vanessa joined the conversation from Calgary, in the traditional territories of the peoples of Treaty 7, which include the Blackfoot Confederacy (comprised of the Siksika, the Piikani, and the Kainai First Nations), the Tsuut’ina First Nation, and the Stoney Nakoda (including Chiniki, Bearspaw, and Goodstoney First Nations). It is our duty to establish right relations with the people on whose territories we live and work, and with the land itself. Credits PuSh Play is produced by Ben Charland and Tricia Knowles. Original music by Joseph Hirabayashi. Show Transcript /episode/index/show/fead7325-224e-42bd-8687-9e1413d70f27/id/39684480

Ep. 75 - Women's Words (Rainbow Chan Live at the Dream Factory) 01/16/2026

Ep. 75 - Women's Words (Rainbow Chan Live at the Dream Factory) PuSh’s Artistic Director, Gabrielle Martin, speaks with Rainbow Chan about , coming up at the 2026 PuSh Festival: February 4 at 7:30pm at the Chinese Canadian Museum. Show Notes Gabrielle and Rainbow discuss: The unique collaboration and context of Rainbow Chan Live at the Dream Factory The influence of Cantonese pop on Rainbow’s work Voice as both instrument and archive Processing grief through song as an individual and collective The original sparks of interest to perform these particular songs The category of ritual song and music The fusion of folk with pop and electronica, and how tradition and futurity animate the process How theatre, as opposed to other artforms, affects the way in which an audience reads what is onstage What’s next for Rainbow Chan? About Rainbow Chan Live at the Dream Factory Rainbow Chan is a Hong Kong-Australian vocalist, producer, multi-instrumentalist, and interdisciplinary artist celebrated for her inventive blend of heartfelt melodies, textured electronic production, and culturally rich storytelling. Her sound—both tender and experimental—reflects on migration, identity, and the intimate politics of love and loss. Presented for one night only inside the Chinese Canadian Museum’s Dream Factory: Cantopop Mandopop 1980s-2000 exhibition, this special live performance unfolds on Ming Wong’s Vast Ocean, Boundless Skies stage—an installation that reimagines the legacy of Cantopop through diasporic lenses. Fusing Cantopop, electronic music, Chinese folk laments, and experimental sound, Chan uses live looping, electronics, saxophone, and voice to explore resilience, identity, and connection across generations. Through this convergence of sound, space, and story, Chan creates a distinctive and contemporary musical experience—an evening where cultural memory, sonic experimentation, and performance meet. The performance will be followed by an open mic karaoke party hosted by Rainbow Chan. About Rainbow Chan Rainbow Chan is an award-winning vocalist, producer and multi-disciplinary artist. Her practice bridges popular music and contemporary visual arts, exploring themes of cultural representation, (mis)translation, matrilineal histories and diasporic heritage. Central to her work is the research and reimagining of women’s oral traditions, particularly the fading bridal laments of Weitou women, Hong Kong’s first settlers, to whom she has deep ancestral ties. Through pop music, performance and immersive installations, she translates these endangered songs into contemporary art forms, preserving their subversive feminist voices while reflecting on loss, resilience and solidarity. She is particularly interested in the power of ritual, song and performance as both a means of reclaiming agency and a living archive. Land Acknowledgement This conversation was recorded on the unceded, stolen and ancestral territories of the Coast Salish Peoples: the xʷməθkʷəy̓əm (Musqueam), Skwxwú7mesh (Squamish) and Səl̓ílwətaɬ (Tsleil-Waututh), colonially known as Vancouver. Rainbow joined the conversation from the unceded territories of the Wurundjeri Woi-wurrung peoples of the Kulin Nation, in what is today called Australia. It is our duty to establish right relations with the people on whose territories we live and work, and with the land itself. Credits PuSh Play is produced by Ben Charland and Tricia Knowles. Original music by Joseph Hirabayashi. Show Transcript /episode/index/show/fead7325-224e-42bd-8687-9e1413d70f27/id/39664645

Ep. 74 - Human Costs (Invisibles) 01/14/2026

Ep. 74 - Human Costs (Invisibles) Am Johal, Executive Artistic Director of the , guest hosts this episode! He chats with Rakesh Sukesh about , coming up at the 2026 PuSh Festival: January 26 at the Vancity Culture Lab (the Cultch). Show Notes Am and Rakesh discuss: The trajectory and transitions of Rakesh’s artistic and professional life Rakesh’s Bollywood background How Rakesh dealt with his early social anxiety through dance and performance The challenges of creating art after strict Bollywood training The various traditions woven into Rakesh’s work, including yoga How Rakesh situates his work globally, and how it received differently Influence of martial arts on Rakesh’s dance practices The origins of Invisibles and its formation How to make work in this very troubled time in the world The concept that all people can be diamonds or demons About Invisibles In residency with his new creation Invisibles, Rakesh Sukesh—the artist behind because i love the diversity, this micro-attitude we all have it (PuSh 2024)—confronts the brutal realities of the Kafala system, which has enabled modern-day slavery across parts of the Middle East. Drawing from his own family’s history, he interlaces visceral movement, stark statistics, and documentary theatre to reveal the human cost of economic migration and to ask urgent questions about whose lives and suffering we choose to value. Sukesh weaves ritual dance and funeral song from the Tamil-Nadu region in India into a powerful meditation on grief, dignity, and remembrance. Rakesh Sukesh’s work emerges from a life deeply shaped by movement—across borders, traditions, and generations. With a career spanning over 25 years, he has captivated audiences worldwide as a performer, choreographer, teacher, and producer. His journey began in Bollywood dance and South Indian cinema before evolving toward contemporary movement infused with his family’s lineage of yoga and embodied disciplines such as Kalarippayattu and other Indian dance forms. His international career has cultivated a language of physicality that bridges precision and spiritual depth. About Am Johal Am Johal has previously been Director of SFU’s Vancity Office of Community Engagement, Co-Director of SFU's Community Engaged Research Initiative and host of the podcast, Below the Radar. He is the author of Ecological Metapolitics: Badiou and the Anthropocene (2015), co-author with Matt Hern of Global Warming and the Sweetness of Life: A Tar Sands Tale (2018) and O My Friends, There is No Friend: The Politics of Friendship at the End of Ecology (2024). He is currently Chair of the Vancouver International Film Festival, Vice Chair of Greenpeace Canada and a board member with the BC Alliance for Arts and Culture. He has presented his work internationally, including the Oxford Literature Festival. About Rakesh Sukesh With a career spanning over 25 years, Rakesh has captivated audiences worldwide as a versatile performer, choreographer, teacher, and producer. His journey through the realms of artistry began in Bollywood dance, where he lent his talents to numerous films in South India. Evolving his craft, Rakesh found a new passion in Contemporary movement art, drawing inspiration from his family's lineage of yoga and disciplines like Kalarippayattu and other Indian dance forms. For the past 15 years, he has traversed the globe, immersing himself in diverse cultures and artistic landscapes, shaping his unique perspective and vision. Experience the culmination of Rakesh's passion, dedication, and global influences in every performance and creation. Land Acknowledgement This conversation was recorded on the unceded, stolen and ancestral territories of the Coast Salish Peoples: the xʷməθkʷəy̓əm (Musqueam), Skwxwú7mesh (Squamish) and Səl̓ílwətaɬ (Tsleil-Waututh), colonially known as Vancouver. It is our duty to establish right relations with the people on whose territories we live and work, and with the land itself. Credits PuSh Play is produced by Ben Charland and Tricia Knowles. Original music by Joseph Hirabayashi. Show Transcript /episode/index/show/fead7325-224e-42bd-8687-9e1413d70f27/id/39617945

Ep. 73 - Mythmaking (Trouble Score) 01/09/2026

Ep. 73 - Mythmaking (Trouble Score) PuSh Artistic Director Gabrielle Martin chats with Luanda Casella & Pablo Casella about , coming up at the 2026 PuSh Festival: February 7 at the Vancouver Playhouse. Show Notes Gabrielle, Luanda and Pablo discuss: Discussion of Indigenous peoples and their struggles in North and South America Returning to the storytelling concert form, and how the project began The importance of experiencing everything that occurs on the stage Incorporating ritual into practice and performance Research threads of misleading discourse, cult of story, the unreliable narrator and how they evolved through Trouble Score Exploring trauma through ritual and archetype The fully-realized mythology built into the text The musical compositions in the piece and how music can carry narrative and organize elements Using sounds as triggers of memory Working with text, sound and light to construct a world How the character of the Healer evolved into a provocative voice The shadow self created via one’s experience About Trouble Score Part ritual, part pop concert, Trouble Score is a hallucinatory portrait of family myth refracted through the lens of magic realism. Weaving multi-layered text, vocals, sound samples, and live music within an otherworldly lighting composition that turns each scene into a luminous portal, this one-night-only performance is a storytelling séance that’s as witty as it is disruptive. Trouble Score revisits an old family scandal—a web of fragmented criminal stories that unravels into an impossible plot, where childhood innocence collides with the distorted reality of trauma, set against the backdrop of racial segregation and a military dictatorship. Blending humour and complicity, Trouble Score captures the fantastic, mysterious, and often surreal nature of family dynamics. Luanda Casella, known for her incisive deconstruction of language and fascination with the unreliable narrator, crafts text that is both razor-sharp and darkly funny. Pablo Casella composes intricate landscapes of melodic intimacy and rhythmic resonance. Nick Verstand, whose work explores the edges of light, space, and human perception, sculpts immersive architectures that breathe with the performers. Together, they turn family legend into a ritual of reinvention—a storytelling alchemy of music, language, and light. About the Guests Luanda Casella is a writer, performing artist, and theatre director from São Paulo, based in Ghent, Belgium. A resident artist at NTGent, her work is internationally acclaimed and known for its ingenious storytelling and incisive deconstruction of language. She is currently a teacher at the drama department at the KASK Conservatory, Ghent, and a PhD candidate examining "deceptive discourse" in communication processes and "unreliable narrators" in classic and contemporary works of fiction. Casella has also been a guest lecturer at leading institutions, including DAS Graduate School (Amsterdam), KABK (The Hague), P.A.R.T.S, School for Contemporary Dance (Brussels), Toneelacademie Maastricht Institute of Performative Arts, Universität der Künste Berlin, Cité Universitaire de Paris, and Rutgers University, New Jersey, USA. Pablo Casella is a composer, songwriter and multi-instrumentalist. His ear for harmonies is unique in contemporary music. With his skills and virtuosity, he knows how to paint landscapes with sound, emotions with melody and power with rhythm. In the theatre world, he is active as a composer of soundtracks, producer and live musician; he has collaborated on Antigone in the Amazon (Milo Rau/NTGent/MST), Ferox Tempus, KillJoy Quiz and Elektra Unbound (Luanda Casella & NTGent), and BAM!, Saperlipopette and LOS (Ultima Thule). Casella is currently touring internationally with Antigone in the Amazon and has already performed the show in ten different countries and at renowned performing arts festivals such as Wiener Festwochen and Festival D'Avignon. Casella has has played at prestigious festivals such as Dour, Les Ardentes, Dranouter, Gent Jazz and Jazz Middelheim. With his own band, Little Dots, he has released two albums on V2 Records (2014 and 2018), for which he was responsible for the compositions, arrangements and co-production. Little Dots was artist in residence at the Ancienne Belgique in Brussels. The band toured as the opening act for Gabriel Rios and Hooverphonic in venues such as AB (Brussels), De Roma (Antwerp) and Paradiso (Amsterdam), and at festivals such as Gent Jazz and Eurosonic. Land Acknowledgement This conversation was recorded on the unceded, stolen and ancestral territories of the Coast Salish Peoples: the xʷməθkʷəy̓əm (Musqueam), Skwxwú7mesh (Squamish) and Səl̓ílwətaɬ (Tsleil-Waututh), colonially known as Vancouver. Luanda joined the conversation from Belgium, and Pablo joined from the countryside of São Paulo, Brazil, home to the Tupinambás, Tupiniquins and Carijós, with Macro-Jê speakers in the interior. It is our duty to establish right relations with the people on whose territories we live and work, and with the land itself. Credits PuSh Play is produced by Ben Charland and Tricia Knowles. Original music by Joseph Hirabayashi. Show Transcript /episode/index/show/fead7325-224e-42bd-8687-9e1413d70f27/id/39545950

Ep. 72 - Navigating Authenticity and Distortion (JEZEBEL) 01/06/2026

Ep. 72 - Navigating Authenticity and Distortion (JEZEBEL) Guest host Chipo Chipaziwa chats with Cherish Menzo about , coming up at the 2026 PuSh Festival: January 22 and 23 at the Scotiabank Dance Centre in Vancouver, BC. Show Notes Chipo and Cherish discuss: How Jezebel was developed Representation and presentation of black women in western culture, including tendencies of visual hypersexualization Use of various elements to highlight juxtaposition of beauty and the grotesque Negotiation between performance and how it is consumed by the audience How to be careful not to misrepresent anyone in performance work through stories or images How has the work changed from its first performance to today? Jezebel’s position in a trilogy of work The use of distortion and its cultural significance Navigating between caricature and authenticity What references did you call upon in creating the work? About JEZEBEL Through a collision of physical performance, hip hop visual language, and the slowed, distorted flow of chopped-and-screwed sound, JEZEBEL reclaims the hyper-sexualized image of the “video vixen” that defined hip hop’s golden age. Once framed through a male gaze that fetishized and vilified Black femininity, the vixen now steps into her own frame—stretching the image until its artifice becomes her authorship. Drawing from the glossy aesthetics of MTV-era music videos and the syrupy deceleration of Southern hip hop remix culture, this electrifying solo work deconstructs the myths of the “hip hop honey,” refracting her through feminist, racial, and cultural awakenings. What emerges is a portrait of a woman both muse and maker: unapologetic and self-possessed. With a bass-heavy soundscape and arresting physicality, JEZEBEL asks—who gets to look, and who gets to define what they see? About Cherish Menzo Cherish Menzo (°1988, The Netherlands) is a choreographer and dancer, who works from Brussels and Amsterdam. In 2013 she graduated from The Urban Contemporary (JMD) at the ‘Hogeschool voor de Kunsten’ in Amsterdam. Cherish has appeared in the work of Lisbeth Gruwez (THE SEA WITHIN), Jan Martens (THE DOG DAYS ARE OVER, any attempt will end in crushed bodies and shattered bones), Nicole Beutler (6: THE SQUARE), as well as collaborations with the likes of Akram Khan, Ula Sickle, Olivier Dubois and Eszter Salamon. Her powerful movement language also comes into its own in her own work, which tours internationally. In 2016, she and Nicole Geertruida made EFES, an exhausting duet in which perfection and fallibility raise intriguing questions about how we like to see human beings. Sorry, But I Feel Slightly Disidentified... (2018), a solo made by Benjamin Kahn for (and with input from) Cherish, was an attempt to create a cartography of how we experience and meet the other. The seeds for this production were laid within the framework of Fraslab, after which an artistic dialogue between Cherish and Frascati Producties was initiated. Hereafter, Cherish made LIVE (2018), a cross between dance performance and pop/rock concert in collaboration with musician Müşfik Can Müftüoğlu. In 2019 Cherish worked at Frascati Producties on JEZEBEL, a dance performance inspired by the phenomenon Video Vixen from the hip-hop clips of the 90s. Jezebel, a contemporary hip-hop honey, refuses to be defined by others and shakes off her image by deconstructing and redefining it. In May 2022, during Kunstenfestivaldesarts in Brussels, D̶A̶R̶K̶MATTER premiered, a duet in which she and Camilo Mejía Cortés, with the help of the distorted rap choir, search for ways to detach their bodies and the daily reality in which they move from a forced perception. In the context of D̶A̶R̶K̶MATTER , Cherish also gives workshops on the chopped & screwed technique, a process from hip-hop music that Cherish applies to the moving and performing body in the performance. As part of Productiehuis Theater Rotterdam's research programme Welcome To Our Guesthouse, Cherish made KILLED AND EXTENDED DARLINGS: SUBTLE WHINE in autumn 2023, an audiovisual performative landscape that embraces the subtle nuances and mechanics of gyration. Cherish is currently touring with FRANK (premiere May 2025, Kunstenfestivaldesarts, Brussels). In continuation of JEZEBEL and D̶A̶R̶K̶MATTER, in FRANK, distortion is once again one of the main ingredients to generate material. In addition, Cherish looked into the action of decay and discovered how something gradually breaking down and getting less or worse can be another attempt to distort a form or information. Cherish received the Amsterdam FRINGE and FRINGE International Bursary Awards 2019 with JEZEBEL. JEZEBEL was selected in 2020 for both the Dutch and Flemish Theaterfestival, which presented a jury selection of the best performances of the season and received the prestigious Charlotte Köhler award by the Prins Bernhard Foundation (Amsterdam) in 2022. D̶A̶R̶K̶MATTER was selected for both the Belgian Theater Festival and its Dutch counterpart. With D̶A̶R̶K̶MATTER, Cherish received the BNG Bank Theater Prize (2023) and the Dutch Drama Jury prize for best direction (2023). For her artistic work, she is interested in the transformation of the body on stage and in the “embodiment” of different physical images. Implementing distortion, decay, and dissonance, Cherish attempts to detach bodies from forced perceptions and their daily corporeal realities, underlining the complexity and contradictory nature of images that seem recognizable at first glance. Glitching the ‘’common’’ lexical, the lexical of the speaking being, she seeks the Uncanny, the Enigmatic, and the Monstrous to give shape to – and materialize speculative forms and fictions. Land Acknowledgement This conversation was recorded on the unceded, stolen and ancestral territories of the Coast Salish Peoples: the xʷməθkʷəy̓əm (Musqueam), Skwxwú7mesh (Squamish) and Səl̓ílwətaɬ (Tsleil-Waututh), colonially known as Vancouver. Cherish joined the conversation from the Netherlands. It is our duty to establish right relations with the people on whose territories we live and work, and with the land itself. Credits PuSh Play is produced by Ben Charland and Tricia Knowles. Original music by Joseph Hirabayashi. Show Transcript /episode/index/show/fead7325-224e-42bd-8687-9e1413d70f27/id/39529265

Ep. 71 - After the Silence (Wayqeycuna) 01/02/2026

Ep. 71 - After the Silence (Wayqeycuna) Gabrielle Martin chats with Cecilia Kuska about her work as a producer as well as , coming up at the 2026 PuSh Festival and co-presented by Latincouver: February 6 and 7 at the Roundhouse in Vancouver, BC. Show Notes Gabrielle and Cecilia discuss: The work of Tiziano Cruz and how Cecilia’s understanding has been shaped by his process and artistry How performance can be political without losing its complexity of creativity What it means to hold the space with theatrical work How community engagement is realized and makes sense of each locality Previous times at PuSh Cecelia’s own practice to find what is on the margins Different barriers and cultural policies within other countries The approaches that guide your own model and curatorial thinking How curation is about asking and listening How to support new producers and artists The wider landscape and artistic futures of contemporary Latin American performance About Wayqeycuna Like a quipu—the intricate system of knotted cords used by Andean peoples to record memory and knowledge—Wayqeycuna traces Argentinean artist Tiziano Cruz’s path back to his childhood in the Andean north. Through a poetic layering of testimony, ritual, and performance, Cruz reassembles fragments of collective and personal history, each knot an invocation of ancestry, each gesture a measured rebellion against erasure. Drawing from archival research and community memory, the work reflects on the violent devastation of cultural and communal life under neoliberalism and enduring racial hierarchies. As the final piece in Cruz’s trilogy Tres Maneras de Cantarle a una Montaña (Three Ways of Singing to a Mountain), which includes Soliloquio (I woke up and hit my head against the wall) presented at the 2023 PuSh Festival, Wayqeycuna unfolds as an act of return and repair: a lament for what has been taken, and a celebration of what persists. About Cecilia Cecilia began her career in the arts as an independent photographer, cinematographer, and combined arts student, producing exhibitions and short films. This personal exploration soon expanded into a collaborative impulse: she found herself increasingly drawn to supporting others in bringing their artistic visions to life, always guided by a sensitive and creative eye for detail. Over the past 15 years, she has developed and produced cultural projects across the globe, working at the intersection of disciplines and identities, with a strong commitment to international collaboration, contemporary creation, and institutional transformation. Land Acknowledgement This conversation was recorded on the unceded, stolen and ancestral territories of the Coast Salish Peoples: the xʷməθkʷəy̓əm (Musqueam), Skwxwú7mesh (Squamish) and Səl̓ílwətaɬ (Tsleil-Waututh), colonially known as Vancouver. Cecilia joined the conversation from Brussels, Belgium. It is our duty to establish right relations with the people on whose territories we live and work, and with the land itself. Credits PuSh Play is produced by Ben Charland and Tricia Knowles. Original music by Joseph Hirabayashi. Show Transcript /episode/index/show/fead7325-224e-42bd-8687-9e1413d70f27/id/39528925

Ep. 70 - Dancer Magic (Catching Up to the Future of Our Past) 12/30/2025

Ep. 70 - Dancer Magic (Catching Up to the Future of Our Past) Gabrielle Martin chats with James Gnam and Natalie LeFebvre Gnam of Plastic Orchid Factory about , coming up at the 2026 PuSh Festival: January 30 and 31 at the Scotiabank Dance Centre in Vancouver, BC. Show Notes Gabrielle and Renae discuss: The ways in which interdisciplinary fluidity shapes choreography How trust and dialogue forms the core of collaboration The power of “dancer magic” and its ability to pull together a performance The development of Catching Up with the Future of Our Past The use of the physiology of memory as a choreographic tool How do we remember and embody future dances? The continuous tending to of small things that is present in mid-life and in the work itself Creating work together at the same time as being life partners and parents How do you know that you’re doing it right? The tension between memory, desire and the fantasy of progress Capturing the possibility and optimism of the 60s, especially the space race The emotional and scenographic landscape, and how that changed when the piece grew from a solo piece? Learnings from other collaborators and artists The Slow Social coming up at PuSh 2026! About Catching Up to the Future of Our Past Two bodies meet, orbiting between what was and what might be. Catching Up to the Future of Our Past invites audiences into the strange terrain of midlife—where time gathers, stretches, and folds back on itself. Inside a Mary Quant–inspired, retro-futurist astral bubble, their movements trace the pull of time: measurable yet fluid, finite yet elastic. Through intimacy, repetition, and reflection, the dancers chart midlife not as a pause or checkpoint, but as a living exchange between memory and possibility. The work unfolds as a meditation on the place where nostalgia and anticipation coexist, where every choice carries echoes of what was and what could be. This work summons us to witness not only the passage of time, but its elastic potential—to feel how memory propels possibility, and how possibility reshapes what we remember. About the Artists Plastic Orchid Factory (POF) is an interdisciplinary organization led by dance artists James Gnam and Natalie LeFebvre Gnam, on the unceded territories of the Musqueam, Squamish, and Tsleil-Waututh peoples (Vancouver). For over twenty years, POF has created work that dissolves the boundaries between dance, theatre, installation and digital media. By inviting audiences to reconsider how movement, space and technology intersect, the company cultivates experiences that are both site-responsive and immersive. Committed to risk-taking, POF embraces experimental rigour while foregrounding collaboration with local and international partners to build bridges between artists, communities and contexts. POF has created more than twenty original works presented in galleries, theatres, studios and community halls across Turtle Island and beyond. Recent highlights include Entre Chien et Loup, presented at The Citadel (Tkaronto/Toronto), MAI | Montréal, arts interculturels (Tio’tia:ke/Mooniyang/Montréal) and The Fluid Festival (Mohkínstsis/Calgary); Digital Folk, shown at Omineca Arts Centre (Lheidli T’enneh/Prince George), Mile Zero Dance (Amiskwaciy Waskahikan/Edmonton), Swallow-a-Bicycle (Mohkínstsis/Calgary) and Crimson Coast (Snuneymuxw/Nanaimo); and The Door Project at Left of Main (MST Territories/Vancouver). plasticorchidfactory.ca James Gnam (he/him) is a Vancouver-based dancer and choreographer whose work explores the reciprocal tensions between embodiment, technology and social exchange. A graduate of Canada’s National Ballet School, he has interpreted repertoire for Les Grands Ballets Canadiens, Ballet BC, EDAM Dance and 10 Gates Dancing, performing landmark creations by Crystal Pite, Twyla Tharp, Jiří Kylián, Mark Morris, Kurt Jooss, Peter Bingham and Tedd Robinson. Gnam is Artistic Director of Plastic Orchid Factory, a founding member of Left of Main, and an associate artist with Mélanie Demers’ MAYDAY and Jacques Poulin-Denis’ Grand Poney. James’ choreography positions the body as both subject and analytic instrument, extending dance into gaming environments, gallery contexts and civic spaces. Across more than twenty works with Plastic Orchid Factory, he has cultivated a practice that oscillates between meticulous introspection and architecturally scaled spectacle, consistently interrogating the conditions under which meaning—and community—are produced. His research and productions have been supported by Opera Estate (Bassano, Italy); Circuit-Est (Montréal); Centre Q and the National Arts Centre (Ottawa); and, in Vancouver, The Dance Centre, Electric Company Theatre, The New Forms Festival, The Vancouver Art Gallery, The Burrard Arts Foundation/Facade Festival, The Belkin Gallery and SFU Goldcorp Centre for the Arts. In 2010, the late Lola Maclaughlin nominated Gnam and his partner and collaborator Natalie LeFebvre Gnam for the City of Vancouver Mayor’s Arts Award for Dance. Land Acknowledgement This conversation was recorded on the unceded, stolen and ancestral territories of the Coast Salish Peoples: the xʷməθkʷəy̓əm (Musqueam), Skwxwú7mesh (Squamish) and Səl̓ílwətaɬ (Tsleil-Waututh), colonially known as Vancouver. It is our duty to establish right relations with the people on whose territories we live and work, and with the land itself. Credits PuSh Play is produced by Ben Charland and Tricia Knowles. Original music by Joseph Hirabayashi. Show Transcript /episode/index/show/fead7325-224e-42bd-8687-9e1413d70f27/id/39528875

Ep. 69 - Access and Excess (SKIN) 12/26/2025

Ep. 69 - Access and Excess (SKIN) Gabrielle Martin chats with Renae Shadler about , coming up at the 2026 PuSh Festival: February 4-6 at the Annex in Vancouver, BC. Show Notes Gabrielle and Renae discuss: How did this project first begin? What did you discover about your own assumptions and movement in this process? How did the presence of caregiving and support structures change your thinking and development of the show? How did this project deepen or challenge the framework of modern life, including the textures of the anthropocene? How did the image of sea amoeba influence the show, and allow for merging without suppressing difference? How do you craft a dramaturgy that resists normative readings of the body on stage? What is your wider practice beyond SKIN? What questions continue to animate your work? About SKIN Every body tells its story through the skin. Constantly shifting through contact, the skin transforms—between bodies, and in its exchange with the earth, whose surface we are changing ever faster in the Anthropocene. Performed by Roland Walter, a dancer with full-body spastic paralysis, and Renae Shadler, a non-disabled choreographer, SKIN creates a universe where their distinctly different bodies move toward one another. Through touch, habitat, and imagination, they develop a shared movement language inspired by sea anemones, liquid states, and the shifting textures of the earth. This duet is not about access, but excess—a space where multiple lived experiences coexist. Between contraction and expansion, Walter and Shadler explore new ways of relating, dissolving the idea of “more” or “less” able bodies. SKIN becomes a meditation on contact and transformation—on how our environment both shapes us and is shaped by us. About Renae Renae Shadler is an Australian choreographer, performer and researcher based in Berlin who experiences her life and work as a web of interrelations. Since 2015, she has been developing her Worlding choreographic practice, which seeks to dissolve the perceived border between internal and external processes, between bodies and worlds. Her work spans diverse contexts: from dance on stage and major festivals, to museums and outdoor public engagement projects. Alongside performances, she has created lectures, the Worlding podcast series, and the ongoing knowledge lab Moving across Thresholds, which hosts online/live gatherings and festival events. As founder of Renae Shadler & Collaborators, she has presented and developed work at venues such as Dancehouse (Australia), Palais de Tokyo (France), Tanzhaus Zürich (Switzerland), Radialsystem and HELLERAU (Germany), among others. She is a recipient of the George Fairfax Memorial Award and the Marten Bequest Theater Fellowship. SKIN — her duet with Roland Walter, a performer with spastic paralysis — was selected for Perform Europe 2024/25, Tanzplattform Deutschland 2022, and Aerowaves 2021. Roland Walter was born in Magdeburg, Germany, in 1963 with a lack of oxygen, which caused his spastic paralysis. Walter lives with full-time assistance in Berlin. In 2010 Roland started working as an artist. As a performer he experiments with his body and works with artists worldwide, showing the audience a change of perspective. Roland also holds lectures and workshops in schools. So far Roland has worked and researched in Berlin at Theaterhaus Mitte and in the Sophiensaele, among others. With his paralysed body he fascinates the audience. Land Acknowledgement This conversation was recorded on the unceded, stolen and ancestral territories of the Coast Salish Peoples: the xʷməθkʷəy̓əm (Musqueam), Skwxwú7mesh (Squamish) and Səl̓ílwətaɬ (Tsleil-Waututh), colonially known as Vancouver. Renae joined the conversation from Berlin, Germany. It is our duty to establish right relations with the people on whose territories we live and work, and with the land itself. Credits PuSh Play is produced by Ben Charland and Tricia Knowles. Original music by Joseph Hirabayashi. Show Transcript /episode/index/show/fead7325-224e-42bd-8687-9e1413d70f27/id/39427730

Ep. 68 - From One to Many (Khalil Khalil) 12/23/2025

Ep. 68 - From One to Many (Khalil Khalil) Gabrielle Martin chats with Bilal Alkhatib about , coming up at the 2026 PuSh Festival: January 23-25 at the Nest in Vancouver, BC. Show Notes Gabrielle and Bilal discuss: How did you translate the story into movement and performance? How did the project start, as your first theatre project coming from film? What kind of conversations or tensions shaped the balance between personal and formal approaches? How did the interplay between mediums shape the audience’s understanding of grief and becoming? What responsibilities did you feel as an outsider to Khalil’s interior experience, but also in relationship to his political reality? What is the difference between the film and the play, and why have both? What’s next for you? About Khalil Khalil How does a name shape a destiny? Khalil Albatran was named for his brother, a martyr of the First Palestinian Intifada. In a family where the name carries both honour and grief, he has lived as a continuation of another life—one that ended before his began. Through movement and music, Khalil Khalil becomes a dialogue between presence and absence. The artist places his body in direct conversation with memory, confronting what it means to live as both an echo and an original. Each movement negotiates the distance between what is remembered and what is alive now. Beyond one man’s story, the work opens a window onto a shared experience for many who bear the names of the fallen. A performance in which the artist confronts an existential question: can a body exist beyond the history it inherits? About Bilal Bilal Alkhatib is a Palestinian filmmaker. He holds a bachelor’s degree in media and television and began his career in film as a cinematographer. Bilal has written and directed several documentary and short films, including Palestine 87 (2022), which was selected for the International Competition at the Clermont-Ferrand Short Film Festival and received the Audience Award. His latest documentary project, My Name is Khalil, received grants from the Qattan Foundation and the British Consulate. He is currently developing his first feature film while pursuing a master’s degree in cinema. Land Acknowledgement This conversation was recorded on the unceded, stolen and ancestral territories of the Coast Salish Peoples: the xʷməθkʷəy̓əm (Musqueam), Skwxwú7mesh (Squamish) and Səl̓ílwətaɬ (Tsleil-Waututh), colonially known as Vancouver. Bilal Alkhatib joined the conversation from Ramallah, in the West Bank of occupied Palestine. It is our duty to establish right relations with the people on whose territories we live and work, and with the land itself. Credits PuSh Play is produced by Ben Charland and Tricia Knowles. Original music by Joseph Hirabayashi. Show Transcript /episode/index/show/fead7325-224e-42bd-8687-9e1413d70f27/id/39427665

Ep. 67 - What the Dance Holds (The Brutal Joy) 12/19/2025

Ep. 67 - What the Dance Holds (The Brutal Joy) Gabrielle Martin chats with Justine A. Chambers about The Brutal Joy, coming up at the 2026 PuSh Festival! Show Notes Gabrielle and Justine discuss: How did you develop this work? What is the significance of and approach to the presentation of the black body? How is this work an anticolonial imagining? What kinds of knowing and being become possible through the act of dance? What is bodily sovereignty and why is it important around the figure of the black dandy? What is the importance of style and the expression of the self through fashion and clothing? How does the call-and-response structure of the show affect collaboration and its meaning? About The Brutal Joy Dance as archive. Style as philosophy. The Brutal Joy slides between ritual and rebellion—part groove, part revelation, all liberation. An improvisational act of devotion to Black-living, The Brutal Joy merges Black vernacular line dance and sartorial gesture, transforming social dance and self-styling into an embodied living library of self-determination. Within its scored improvisation for dance, light, and sound, performers riff, vamp, and break—tracing the syncopations between individuality and collectivity, ritual and rebellion. As light carves the body and shadows echo back, The Brutal Joy unfolds as both performance and inquiry: a living counter-archive where gesture becomes knowledge and attire holds history. At once reverent and radical, it embodies the bodily sovereignty of the Black dandy and the communal vitality of the Electric Slide. What emerges is a choreography of becoming—radiant, self-determined, and alive to the possibilities of another future. About Justine Justine A. Chambers is a dance artist and educator. Her practice is a collaboration with her Black matrilineal heritage, and extends from this continuum and its entanglements with Western contemporary dance and visual arts practices. Her research attends to embodied archives, social choreographies, and choreography and dance as otherwise ways of being in relation. Land Acknowledgement This conversation was recorded on the unceded, stolen and ancestral territories of the Coast Salish Peoples: the xʷməθkʷəy̓əm (Musqueam), Skwxwú7mesh (Squamish) and Səl̓ílwətaɬ (Tsleil-Waututh), colonially known as Vancouver. It is our duty to establish right relations with the people on whose territories we live and work, and with the land itself. Credits PuSh Play is produced by Ben Charland and Tricia Knowles. Original music by Joseph Hirabayashi. Show Transcript /episode/index/show/fead7325-224e-42bd-8687-9e1413d70f27/id/39328750

Ep. 66 - Deep Time (askîwan) 12/16/2025

Ep. 66 - Deep Time (askîwan) Gabrielle Martin chats with Tyson Houseman about askîwan ᐊᐢᑮᐊᐧᐣ, coming up at the 2026 PuSh Festival! Show Notes Gabrielle and Tyson discuss: Where does askîwan sit in your recent work? How does bringing in live image-making evolve your experimentation with form? What made you start working in film after studying theatre and visual arts? What was the initial concept of askîwan? How have you translated the scale of ancestral and deep time into this performance? Is there a connection between the intergenerational teachings in Caustics and the current explorations of askîwan? What are the resonances between the different ecologies of relation in your work? What was it like to collaborate on the music, and how did sound become a vessel for cosmology in this piece? How do you subvert the colonial instrument of the voice? What have the technologies you have used revealed to you about artistic creation? About askîwan ᐊᐢᑮᐊᐧᐣ Part live cinema, part ecological opera, askîwan ᐊᐢᑮᐊᐧᐣ conjures a cosmology of land, memory, and time. This operatic multimedia performance transforms a miniature film set—complete with cameras, mylar, mirrors, and bowls of water—into vast dreamlike mountainscapes that unfold in real time. Through live video projection, electroacoustic sound, and baritone vocals sung in nehiyawewin (Plains Cree), creator and director Tyson Houseman (nêhiyaw) invites audiences into an Indigenous vision of deep, cyclical time: where rivers breathe, fire regenerates, and childhood memories ripple through vibrating water. Viola da gamba and electronics entwine ancient and digital frequencies as landscapes shift from winter ice to aurora skies. At once cinematic and ceremonial, askîwan ᐊᐢᑮᐊᐧᐣ reveals how land remembers—and how, even amid ecological crisis, the earth continues to sing through us. About Tyson Tyson Houseman is a nêhiyaw video artist, performer, and filmmaker from Paul First Nation. Tyson’s practice focuses on aspects of nêhiyaw ideologies and teachings – speaking to land-based notions of non-linear time and the interwoven relations between humans and their ecologies. He has exhibited at various galleries, screenings, and festivals worldwide. Most recently he participated in artist residencies at MacDowell, Wassaic Project, Vermont Studio Center, and Institute for Electronic Arts at Alfred University. Tyson is a recipient of the 2025 “Open Call” commission at The Shed in NYC, a 2025 Forge Project Fellow, a COUSIN Collective Cycle IV Fellow, and a 2025 MacDowell Fellow. Along with producing his own works, Tyson is a touring performer on various live cinema performances created by DJ Kid Koala. Tyson has an MFA in Fine Arts from School of Visual Arts in NYC and a BFA in Theatre Performance from Concordia University in Montreal. Land Acknowledgement This conversation was recorded on the unceded, stolen and ancestral territories of the Coast Salish Peoples: the xʷməθkʷəy̓əm (Musqueam), Skwxwú7mesh (Squamish) and Səl̓ílwətaɬ (Tsleil-Waututh), colonially known as Vancouver. Tyson joined the conversation from Toronto, also known as Tkaronto, on the traditional territory of many nations including the Mississaugas of the Credit, the Anishnabeg, the Chippewa, the Haudenosaunee and the Wendat peoples and is now home to many diverse First Nations, Inuit and Métis peoples.. It is our duty to establish right relations with the people on whose territories we live and work, and with the land itself. Credits PuSh Play is produced by Ben Charland and Tricia Knowles. Original music by Joseph Hirabayashi. Show Transcript /episode/index/show/fead7325-224e-42bd-8687-9e1413d70f27/id/39317745

Ep. 65 - Making it Punk (SLUGS) 12/12/2025

Ep. 65 - Making it Punk (SLUGS) Gabrielle Martin chats with S.E. Grummett and Sam Kruger about SLUGS, coming up at the 2026 PuSh Festival! Show Notes Gabrielle S.E. and Sam discuss: How did this piece start and develop into what it is today? What is your creation process like? How did you incorporate a dramaturg? How did you “make it punk enough”? What was the origin of Creepy Boys? How have your interests, creative approach and themes evolved? Your influences are wide and wild; what do these forms mean to you and how do they coexist in your world? How has your practice developed by touring your work around the world? What is the Fringe model and what draws you to it? About SLUGS It’s about nothing. We promise. From the award-winning performance/comedy duo Creepy Boys (S.E. Grummett & Sam Kruger), this anarchic fever dream is a techno-punk concert, a play, a clown show, and a basement puppet nightmare all rolled into one. In a neon haze of chaos and charm, two performers attempt to make a show about nothing—until meaning starts leaking in through the cracks. SLUGS spirals from DIY absurdity into something strangely profound, fusing electronic comedy songs, trash puppetry and live camera magic into a meltdown of meaning. It’s “brilliantly smart and beautifully stupid” (The Guardian), and it might be the most fun you’ll have while the planet burns. For tonight, at least, we are free. About the Artists S.E. Grummett and Sam Kruger proudly make joyful, deliciously funny, big-hearted, queer comedy and theatre for the intrigued. Real-life lovers, the pair perform under the duo name CREEPY BOYS, recently nominated for an Edinburgh Comedy Award. As CREEPY BOYS and with their own solo works, they have toured extensively around the world including across Canada (Buddies in Bad Times, Summerworks Festival), US (Twin Cities Horror Festival), UK (Soho Theatre, Latitude Festival, Edinburgh Fringe), Europe (Prague Quadrennial, LiteraturHaus Copenhagen) and Australia (Midsumma Festival, Adelaide Fringe, Fringe World). Their work has also been featured on the BBC Radio 4 and CBC Radio. S.E. Grummett (they/them) is a queer, transgender theatre artist from Treaty 6 Territory. Over the past 5 years, Grumms has created a body of original queer work and toured it around the world, including Canada, US, UK, Europe and Australia. Their solo-show, “Something in the Water", which won Best Theatre at the Adelaide Fringe, has toured around the world to queer audiences young and old. Recently they created, “The Adventures of Young Turtle”, a puppet musical for queer and trans youth created with indie music icon, Rae Spoon, which won 2 Sterling Awards in Edmonton for Outstanding TYA Production. Grumms is the recipient of the inaugural 2SLGBTQIA+ Multidisciplinary Artist Award presented by the Sask Foundation for the Arts and the 2022 RBC Outstanding Award in recognition for their contribution to the queer and trans community across Saskatchewan. Outside of self-creation, Grumms also works as a director, puppeteer & video artist. Sam Kruger (he/him) is a performer, sound designer, and recent immigrant to Canada. His solo works "Fool Muun Komming! [BeBgWunderful/YEsyes/ 4sure.Hi5/TruLuv;Spank Spank:SOfun_Grate_Times", "Bat Brains or (let’s explore mental illness with vampires)", and duo comedy Creepy Boys, have toured throughout Canada, the US, the UK, Europe, and Australia since 2018 to acclaim and various awards. Kruger’s emphasis is in the creation of original theatre that draws on Lecoq-style physical theatre, Gaulier-esqe clown, performance art, and surrealism. Often exploring themes of isolation, loneliness, and the performativity of everyday life, Kruger’s work is funny, physical, stupid, sincere, wiggly and proudly weird. He holds a BA from the University of Minnesota, and is a graduate of the Ecole Philippe Gaulier, in Étampes, France. Land Acknowledgement This conversation was recorded on the unceded, stolen and ancestral territories of the Coast Salish Peoples: the xʷməθkʷəy̓əm (Musqueam), Skwxwú7mesh (Squamish) and Səl̓ílwətaɬ (Tsleil-Waututh), colonially known as Vancouver. S.E. and Sam joined the conversation from Copenhagen, Denmark. It is our duty to establish right relations with the people on whose territories we live and work, and with the land itself. Credits PuSh Play is produced by Ben Charland and Tricia Knowles. Original music by Joseph Hirabayashi. Show Transcript /episode/index/show/fead7325-224e-42bd-8687-9e1413d70f27/id/39261290

Ep. 64 - Kinetic Impossibilities (Everything Has Disappeared) 12/09/2025

Ep. 64 - Kinetic Impossibilities (Everything Has Disappeared) Gabrielle Martin chats with Hazel Venzon about Everything Has Disappeared, coming up at the 2026 PuSh Festival! Show Notes Gabrielle and Hazel discuss: The Lapu Lapu tragedy in Vancouver, April 2025 What is the special impact of Philipinos in the world? How do we cope with tragedy and violence? Can visibilization be a form of celebration? How did values of intercultural exchange shape this work? About Everything Has Disappeared Through digital interactive technology (and a touch of magic), Everything Has Disappeared exposes the hidden architecture of the global economy: a system sustained by the labour, care, and migration of Filipino workers. From ships and oil fields to hospitals, factories, and care homes, Filipino hands keep the world turning—often without acknowledgment or visibility. In a blend of illusion, narrative, wit, and exploration, erasure transforms into revelation, confronting how our socioeconomic construct renders some lives essential yet unseen. Equal parts conjuring act and quiet celebration, Everything Has Disappeared illuminates the dignity and cultural spirit that persist within globalized structures, inviting us to contemplate how intricately necessary each and every one of us is, in order for the whole to fully exist. About the Artists Based in Germany and Canada, Mammalian Diving Reflex is dedicated to investigating the social sphere, always on the lookout for contradictions to whip into aesthetically scintillating experiences. They create site and social-specific performance events, theatre productions, participatory gallery installations, videos, film, art objects and theoretical texts, collaborating with non-artists to create work that recognises the social responsibility of art, fosters a dialogue and dismantles barriers between individuals of all ages, cultural, economic and social backgrounds. Mammalian brings people together in new and unusual ways around the world, to create work that is engaging, challenging, and gets people talking, thinking and feeling. They make ideal entertainment for the end of the world. U N I Together (UNIT) Productions is a multi-media producing company for theatre, film, television and the web. Combining the producing, directing, writing, dramaturgy and artistic design talents of duo Hazel Venzon and David Oro, UNIT produces culturally bending content that brings new stories to the forefront. UNIT is passionate about amplifying POC stories and voices and are especially interested in narratives that illuminate Filipino-Canadian experience and diaspora. The Chop is a company that brings together artists to create new Canadian theatre. It was founded in 2006 in Vancouver, BC by Emelia Symington Fedy and Anita Rochon. The Chop is recognized for work that is sophisticatedly “simple” – that is, the artistic propositions are spare and clear so that complexities come from the depth of the investigation. Productions are characterized by an intentionally live and direct connection with the audience. Now led by Emelia Symington Fedy, The Chop has moved our creation hub to the Shuswap BC. The touring of new works starts from our office space in Vancouver, but all creation, mentorship, residencies and community involvement happens rurally. With 19 new works toured nationally and a strong international profile for our “carbon lite” programming, we’re enjoying this additional role as rural artistic support system Land Acknowledgement This conversation was recorded on the unceded, stolen and ancestral territories of the Coast Salish Peoples: the xʷməθkʷəy̓əm (Musqueam), Skwxwú7mesh (Squamish) and Səl̓ílwətaɬ (Tsleil-Waututh), colonially known as Vancouver. It is our duty to establish right relations with the people on whose territories we live and work, and with the land itself. Credits PuSh Play is produced by Ben Charland and Tricia Knowles. Original music by Joseph Hirabayashi. Show Transcript /episode/index/show/fead7325-224e-42bd-8687-9e1413d70f27/id/39263845

Ep. 63 - Never Whistle at the Northern Lights (Kiuryaq) 12/05/2025

Ep. 63 - Never Whistle at the Northern Lights (Kiuryaq) Gabrielle Martin chats with Dr. Reneltta Arluk, Alon Nashman and Rawdna Carita Eira about Kiuryaq, coming up at the 2026 PuSh Festival! Show Notes Gabrielle, Reneltta, Alon and Rawdna discuss: What brought you together around the aurora borealis? How did the conversations and collaborations begin? Why should you never whistle at the northern lights? How does technology intertwine with theatre, concert and immersive projection as well as land-based knowledge? What is our relationship with the digital world? How does elemental, personal relationships form the core of this work? What thoughts of belonging surfaced in directing the key relationship? Across indigenous and non-indigenous peoples, this is both a creative and a political act. How did the process shape your understanding of shared sovereignty, reciprocity and kinship in the north? Did your relationship to the northern lights change during this process? About Kiuryaq The Northern Lights have always carried stories—frightening, spiritual, epic, and playful. Kiuryaq is a circumpolar performance exploring our relationship with the Northern Lights—“kiuryaq” in Inuvialuktun—created through collaboration among Indigenous and non-Indigenous artists from Canada, Kalaallit Nunaat (Greenland), and Sápmi (Norway). At its centre are two siblings born in the North: one raised beneath the Aurora with their grandparents, the other adopted south and unaware of their origins. Through ancestral connection, choices are made that alter both their worlds. Blending theatre, live music, and video design, Kiuryaq weaves northern stories into a landscape of light, memory, and cosmology. A performance of transformation and return, Kiuryaq is an invitation into the wisdom, warnings, and humour of the circumpolar region. This one-night-only performance is preceded by an artist talk with co-creators Reneltta Arluk and Rawdna Carita Eira, and a reception hosted by the Royal Norwegian Embassy. Come early for complimentary refreshments and a conversation about the artistic practice and cultural worldviews informing this landmark circumpolar collaboration. About Dr. Reneltta Arluk Writer/Director/Producer. Reneltta is an Inuvialuk, Denesuline, Gwich’in, Cree mom from the Northwest Territories. She is founder of Akpik Theatre. Raised by her grandparents on the trap-line until school age, this nomadic environment gave Reneltta the skills to become the multi-disciplined artist she is now. For nearly two decades, Reneltta has taken part in or initiated the creation of Indigenous Theatre across Canada and overseas. Under Akpik Theatre, Reneltta has written, produced, and performed various works creating space for Indigenous led voices. Reneltta is the first Inuk and first Indigenous woman to graduate from the University of Alberta’s BFA Acting program and is the first Inuk and first Indigenous woman to direct at The Stratford Festival. There she was awarded the Tyrone Guthrie – Derek F. Mitchell Artistic Director’s Award for her direction of Governor Award winning playwright, Colleen Murphy’s The Breathing Hole. She also directed The Breathing Hole at Canada’s National Arts Centre. She co-directed award winning Messiah/Complex with Against the Grain Theatre, with soloists from every region of Canada, including many Indigenous performers singing in their language. In 2024, Reneltta received an Honourary Doctorate of Letters from the University of Alberta for her commitment to decolonial change. About Alon Nashman Writer/Producer. Alon is a performer, director, creator, and producer of theatre. Selected acting credits include: The Breathing Hole (National Arts Centre), Birds of a Kind, Hirsch (Stratford Festival), I send you this cadmium red (Art of Time Ensemble), Much Ado About Nothing, Forests, Scorched, Democracy, Remnants, Alias Godot (Tarragon Theatre), Hamlet, All’s Well That Ends Well, Botticelli in the Fire/Sunday in Sodom, Picasso at the Lapin Agile, THIS (Canadian Stage), The Wild Duck (Soulpepper), Hedda Gabler (Volcano/Buddies in Bad Times), If Jesus Met Nanabush (De-ba-jeh-mu-jig Theatre), and Tales of Two Cities (Tafelmusik). Alon established Theaturtle in 1999 to create essential, ecstatic theatre that touches the earth and agitates the soul. With Theaturtle, Alon has been involved with the creation and touring of numerous theatre pieces, such as Adam Nashman’s The Song, Wajdi Mouawad’s Alphonse, Kafka and Son developed with Mark Cassidy of Threshold Theatre, and The Snow Queen, scored for string quartet and narrator by Patrick Cardy. Alon wrote the libretto for Charlotte: A Tri-coloured Play with Music which premiered at Toronto’s Luminato Festival and has toured to Taiwan, Israel and Europe, including the Czech National Opera. About Rawdna Carita Eira Writer/Cultural Envoy. Rawdna is a Sami/Norwegian writer and playwright, born in Elverum and raised in Brønnøysund. She writes in Norwegian and Northern Sami. As a playwright, Eira debuted with the monologue Elle muitalus / Elens historie in 2003, where she played the lead role. She has since written several plays for the Sami National Theater Beaivváš. In 2012, her play Guohcanuori šuvva / Sangen fra Rotsundet, was staged at Beaivváš Theater. The play was nominated for the Ibsen Prize. Eira now lives in Guovdageaidnu and works as a director at Beaivváš Sami National Theater. Eira is also a lyricist and vocalist in the band Circus Polaria with musicians Roger Ludvigsen and Kjetil Dalland. Eira has written the text in the Sami part of the opera Two Odysseys: Pimooteewin / Gállabártnit. In 2020, the opera was nominated for a Dora Mavor Moore Award for “Outstanding Opera Production” and was awarded the prize for “Outstanding Performance by an Ensemble”. Land Acknowledgement This conversation was recorded on the unceded, stolen and ancestral territories of the Coast Salish Peoples: the xʷməθkʷəy̓əm (Musqueam), Skwxwú7mesh (Squamish) and Səl̓ílwətaɬ (Tsleil-Waututh), colonially known as Vancouver. Reneltta joined the conversation from Ottawa, which is on the unceded, unsurrendered Territory of the Anishinaabe Algonquin Nation whose presence reaches back to time immemorial. Alon joined from Toronto, also known as Tkaronto, on the traditional territory of many nations including the Mississaugas of the Credit, the Anishnabeg, the Chippewa, the Haudenosaunee and the Wendat peoples and is now home to many diverse First Nations, Inuit and Métis peoples. Rawdna joined from Stockholm, Sweden, but usually resides in Sápmi, Sweden. It is our duty to establish right relations with the people on whose territories we live and work, and with the land itself. Credits PuSh Play is produced by Ben Charland and Tricia Knowles. Original music by Joseph Hirabayashi. Show Transcript /episode/index/show/fead7325-224e-42bd-8687-9e1413d70f27/id/39248010

Ep. 62 - The Heart Pulse (Remember that time we met in the future?) 12/02/2025

Ep. 62 - The Heart Pulse (Remember that time we met in the future?) Gabrielle Martin chats with Lara Kramer about Remember that time we met in the future?, coming up at the 2026 PuSh Festival! Show Notes Gabrielle and Lara discuss: What are the starting seeds and core concepts of this particular work? How does intergenerational knowledge fit into your work? How do you navigate between remembrance and futurity? How are generational connections present in the work? What is the “hollowing feeling in the gut”? How is creating your work like a living canvas? How do ideas arise through collaboration with other artists with diverse points of entry into the arts? What compelled you to make this leap in scale and collaboration? About Remember that time we met in the future? Remember that time we met in the future? moves through a world in transformation—where land, light, sound, and memory converge. Within a shifting terrain of salvaged materials and spectral landscapes, four Indigenous artists journey through nonlinear time, where body and land, spirit and matter are inseparable. Each movement is a trace of ancestral memory, of futures unfolding, of a pulse shared between beings and worlds. Through intimate physicality, layered imagery, and atmospheric force, the performers navigate a landscape of story, ritual, and resonance. This is not dance as spectacle, but as invocation where stillness holds weight, sound becomes breath, and tenderness meets storm. In this durational dreamscape, the dancers walk with more-than-human kin, carrying the gravity of lived experience and the glow of emergent futures. Remember that time we met in the future? invites audiences into a present stretched by memory, a space of becoming, of heartbeats carried forward. About Lara Kramer Lara Kramer is a performer, choreographer, and multidisciplinary artist of mixed Oji-cree and settler heritage, raised in London, Ontario. She lives and works in Tiohtià:ke/Mooniyang/ Montreal. Her choreographic work, research and field work over the last fifteen years has been grounded in intergenerational relations, intergenerational knowledge, and the impacts of the Indian Residential Schools of Canada. She is the first generation in her family to not attend the Residential schools. Kramer’s relationship to experiential practice and the creative process of performance, sonic development and visual design is anchored in the embodiment of experiences such as dreams, memories, knowledge, and reclamation. Her creations in the form of dance, performance and installation have been presented across Canada and Australia, New Zealand, Martinique, Norway, the US and the UK. Land Acknowledgement This conversation was recorded on the unceded, stolen and ancestral territories of the Coast Salish Peoples: the xʷməθkʷəy̓əm (Musqueam), Skwxwú7mesh (Squamish) and Səl̓ílwətaɬ (Tsleil-Waututh), colonially known as Vancouver. Lara joined the conversation from what is now known as Montreal, on the traditional territory of the Kanien’kehà:ka, a place which has long served as a site of meeting and exchange amongst many First Nations including the Kanien’kehá:ka of the Haudenosaunee Confederacy, Huron/Wendat, Abenaki, and Anishinaabeg, . It is our duty to establish right relations with the people on whose territories we live and work, and with the land itself. Credits PuSh Play is produced by Ben Charland and Tricia Knowles. Original music by Joseph Hirabayashi. Show Transcript /episode/index/show/fead7325-224e-42bd-8687-9e1413d70f27/id/39201475

Ep. 61 - Dreaming Forward (Kamwe Kamwe) 11/28/2025

Ep. 61 - Dreaming Forward (Kamwe Kamwe) Gabrielle Martin chats with SoKo Jena about Kamwe Kamwe (“One by One”), coming up at the 2026 PuSh Festival! Show Notes Gabrielle and SoKo discuss: What does Kamwe Kamwe mean and why is it important to the show? What are the origins of this production? How does the political factor into your work, and how do you navigate the space between the body, voice and spiritual? How do you approach the political significance of the black body on stage? Why do you define your work as being a spiritual practice? What is the Soko totem? What is your process of incorporating all the various aspects into the visual world of the piece? How does Kamwe Kamwe connect or depart from your other work? What is your company’s role in cultivating contemporary dance in Zimbabwe? About Kamwe Kamwe Kamwe Kamwe (One by One) is a force of movement and song—a meeting of ancestral rhythm and contemporary resistance. On a sand-covered stage, four Zimbabwean dancers move through a terrain of poles, elastics, and projected images, their bodies speaking what history has silenced. Echoes of those disappeared through colonial and ongoing violence are carried in the haunting truths revealed through body and voice. Choreography that transforms dance into testimony, this is a reckoning on racism and human rights—a body-to-body reminder that liberation is built in motion, and that no one moves forward alone. Kamwe Kamwe (One by One) is both protest and prayer: a dance of solidarity rising from the dust. About SoKo Jena SoKo Jena is a Zimbabwean multidisciplinary artist, choreographer, and founder of jena_practice, a platform bridging traditional Zimbabwean performance with contemporary artistic expression. A graduate of the University of the Arts (Philadelphia, USA) and the Dance Trust of Zimbabwe, Jerahuni has collaborated with influential mentors such as Peter John Sabbagha, Nora Chipaumire, Ja Willa Jo Zollar, Boyzie Cekwana, and Mamela Nyamza. His work investigates identity, resilience, and spirituality through movement, sound, and ritual, often combining live singing with contemporary dance. His creations, including Kamwe Kamwe / One by One and The Architecture of Blackness, have been presented internationally at festivals and venues such as SPIELART Theatre Festival (Germany), In2IT International Dance Festival (Norway), Atelier Automatique (Germany), and Festival de Dança Itacaré Danse (Brazil). Through his practice, Jerahuni continues to expand Zimbabwean cultural heritage into a global dialogue, offering audiences powerful performances that merge tradition, innovation, and political urgency. Land Acknowledgement This conversation was recorded on the unceded, stolen and ancestral territories of the Coast Salish Peoples: the xʷməθkʷəy̓əm (Musqueam), Skwxwú7mesh (Squamish) and Səl̓ílwətaɬ (Tsleil-Waututh), colonially known as Vancouver. SoKo joined the conversation from Brazil. It is our duty to establish right relations with the people on whose territories we live and work, and with the land itself. Credits PuSh Play is produced by Ben Charland and Tricia Knowles. Original music by Joseph Hirabayashi. Show Transcript /episode/index/show/fead7325-224e-42bd-8687-9e1413d70f27/id/39187050

Ep. 60 - The Fatality of Realism (Le Beau Monde) 11/25/2025

Ep. 60 - The Fatality of Realism (Le Beau Monde) Gabrielle Martin chats with Arthur Amard Rémi Fortin about Le Beau Monde, coming up at the 2026 PuSh Festival! Show Notes Gabrielle, Arthur and Rémi discuss: What questions does this show bring into focus for you, and how does that relate to your other projects? What is the importance of memory in Le Beau Monde? Is the interpretation of meaning a theme in your work, or something specific to this project? How do we represent a thing we used to know? How do you approach authorship within shared creation, and what anchors your collective language? What is the importance of having the right people involved in the creative process, and why do you avoid stubbornness? How do you handle music in the show? What can you say about the creative process lab you are hosting at PuSh? What inspired this project and what do you hope will emerge from it? The work feels like both archaeology and prophecy. What did your process reveal to you about why we make theatre? Is memory the only true subject of theatre? About Le Beau Monde In the future, theatre no longer exists. Neither do elections, football, or kissing. Or, at least not as it used to be. Three people stand before us—awkward, uncertain, sincere. They’ve heard rumours of these ancient rituals and are doing their best to recreate them. What emerges is both ridiculous and strangely touching: a ceremony of imitation, a eulogy for everyday life. A collective creation initiated by actor Rémi Fortin, with polyphonic songs by Arthur Amard, Le Beau Monde resurrects our present as if it were already a ghost. Between laughter and melancholy, a contemplation: what will we leave behind for those who come next? What, if anything, is precious? A sci-fi theatre of tenderness and absurdity, built from the debris of our daily lives. About the Guests The École Parallèle Imaginaire (ÉPI) is a nomadic space that invents experiences in theaters, museums, public spaces, and for territories. Playing on the boundary between reality and fiction, it works to expand our imagination and create contemporary rituals. It is directed by Simon Gauchet who is an actor, director and scenographer. Le Beau Monde (The Beautiful World) has been initiated by Remi Fortin who has gathered Arthur Amard, Blanche Ripoche and Simon Gauchet to create this show. Rémi Fortin trained with the 2013 promotion of the TNS (Théâtre National de Strasbourg) drama school. Since graduating in June 2016, he has performed under the direction of Mathieu Bauer, Simon Delétang, Adèle Gascuel, Thomas Jolly, Frédéric Sonntag, Christophe Laluque, Anne Théron, Cendre Chassanne, and Olivier Martin-Salvan. He also collaborates on the radio with Blandine Masson, Chris Hocké, Laure Egoroff, and Juliette Heynemann In cinema, he has worked under the direction of Loïc Barché, Clément Schneider, Anna Luif, Arnaud Khayadjanian, Clemy Clarke, and Arnaud Simon. Alongside his acting career, he also enjoys creating his own projects in which he performs and crafts the original idea. Without being a director himself, he offers to fellow actors to embark on a theatrical experiment together, like his first solo project, Ratschweg, a walking performance inspired by Büchner’s, Lenz, rehearsed in itinerancy with director Charlie Droesch-Du Cerceau and dramaturge Pierre Chevalier during a journey on foot through the Vosges from Strasbourg to the Théâtre du Peuple in Bussang. From 2018 to 2021, he was an associated actor at the Théâtre Public de Montreuil. He is currently working on his next creation, La Peur (The Fear), for which Adèle Gasquel will write the script. It will be premiered in the autumn of 2025. Arthur Amard graduated from the 27th class of La Comédie de Saint-Étienne, sponsored by Pierre Maillet. He has worked with Élise Vigier and Marcial Di Fonzo Bo on the creation of M comme Méliès, and more recently with Pierre Maillet on Le Bonheur (n’est pas toujours drôle) and Théorème(s). Since 2012, he has been a member of the Compagnons Butineurs, based in Eure. During the 2018/19 season, he was in a co-residency at La Cascade, Pôle des Arts du Cirque, where he joined the itinerant workshop, a collective interdisciplinary working group. There, he continued his research on circus performance. In 2019, he co-founded the collective La Dernière Baleine, with which he created Tant qu’il y aura des brebis - portraits de tondeurs et de tondeuses at the Comédie de Caen, along with Léa Carton de Grammont and choreographer Cécile Laloy. Since 2020, he has been dancing under the direction of Mathilde Papin in Serein. As an accordionist and pianist, he regularly incorporates music into his work. Land Acknowledgement This conversation was recorded on the unceded, stolen and ancestral territories of the Coast Salish Peoples: the xʷməθkʷəy̓əm (Musqueam), Skwxwú7mesh (Squamish) and Səl̓ílwətaɬ (Tsleil-Waututh), colonially known as Vancouver. Rémi joined the conversation from Montreuil, near Paris, and Arthur joined from Strasbourg, France. It is our duty to establish right relations with the people on whose territories we live and work, and with the land itself. Credits PuSh Play is produced by Ben Charland and Tricia Knowles. Original music by Joseph Hirabayashi. Show Transcript /episode/index/show/fead7325-224e-42bd-8687-9e1413d70f27/id/39127440

Ep. 59 - Finding the Light (Orpheus) 11/21/2025

Ep. 59 - Finding the Light (Orpheus) Gabrielle Martin chats with Alan Lake about his show, Orpheus, coming up at the 2026 PuSh Festival! Show Notes Gabrielle and Alan discuss: What drew you to the myth of Orpheus? Why do some old stories continue to return to the present? How are your artistic interests evolving? How does each element develop in conversation with the other? How does your relationship to camera and frame differ from your relationship to the stage? About Orpheus Orpheus reimagines the myth of descent as a visceral dance through darkness toward connection and renewal. Choreographer Alan Lake constructs an immersive world of image and movement where body, matter, and light converge—oscillating between dream and reality. Within this charged landscape, the performers navigate rupture and transformation, their physicality both raw and transcendent. Lake’s choreography merges the mythic and the human, urging us to face the fractures of our humanity—division, conflict, isolation—and to reach for one another. Both intimate and monumental, Orpheus is dance as myth, as mirror, as act of faith—inviting us to drink from the fire and emerge changed. About Alan Lake Alan Lake approaches movement through the accumulation of experience and a multidisciplinary practice. His artistic approach lies at the intersection of dance, film, and visual art, with the goal of merging these disciplines into a common space in service of dance. An associate artist at La Maison pour la danse in Québec City, Alan Lake regularly presents his choreographic work in Québec, across Canada, as well as in Belgium, Mexico, and the United States. He is also an active teacher and guest choreographer in various institutions throughout Québec. About Alan Lake Factori[e] Founded in 2007 and based in Québec City, Alan Lake Factori[e] is dedicated to choreographic research and creation, as well as the production of both stage works and dance films. With its multidisciplinary approach, the company offers an expanded vision of choreographic art. Whether through in situ projects in unconventional spaces, stage productions, or cinematic works, the company embraces artistic hybridity to develop its own distinct aesthetic and physical language. Land Acknowledgement This conversation was recorded on the unceded, stolen and ancestral territories of the Coast Salish Peoples: the xʷməθkʷəy̓əm (Musqueam), Skwxwú7mesh (Squamish) and Səl̓ílwətaɬ (Tsleil-Waututh), colonially known as Vancouver. Alan joined the conversation from Quebec City, on the traditional territories of the Huron-Wendat, Innu, and Abenaki Peoples. It is our duty to establish right relations with the people on whose territories we live and work, and with the land itself. Credits PuSh Play is produced by Ben Charland and Tricia Knowles. Original music by Joseph Hirabayashi. Show Transcript /episode/index/show/fead7325-224e-42bd-8687-9e1413d70f27/id/39117350

Ep. 58 - Respect Beyond Borders (Eight Short Compositions) 11/18/2025

Ep. 58 - Respect Beyond Borders (Eight Short Compositions) Gabrielle Martin chats with Ondřej Hrab, Anastasiia Kosodii and Jana Svobodová about their show, Eight Short Compositions on the Lives of Ukrainians for a Western Audience, coming up at the 2026 PuSh Festival! Show Notes Gabrielle, Ondřej, Anastasiia and Jana discuss: What makes your location so important to your work? What drew you to the non-musical form, and how does silence become part of the work’s meaning? How do you approach staging texts so that they speak across borders without diluting their intimacy or specificity? What is documentary theatre and what is your particular approach with this new work? What questions are raised about authorship and collective responsibility? What did the title “for western audiences” mean and how did it impact the work? What is the importance of language and how do you deal with multiple languages in a performance? About Eight Short Compositions on the Lives of Ukrainians for a Western Audience In Eight Short Compositions on the Lives of Ukrainians for a Western Audience, the political becomes profoundly personal. Drawn from the words of Ukrainian playwright Anastasiia Kosodii, this delicate yet piercing work meditates on the ordinary moments that fracture under the weight of war—boiling water, harvesting fruit, sleeping in one’s own bed. Across languages and borders, five performers gather to honour the small acts of living that survive in the shadow of war. Through text projection, music, movement, and light, they weave a collective reflection on distance, empathy, and responsibility—how to stand beside those whose lives are under siege. In its quiet sincerity, the piece invites us to listen: to the grain of a voice, the tremor of solidarity, the fragile beauty of life persisting against the noise of devastation. About the Guests Archa – Centre for Documentary Theatre continues the work its founders Ondřej Hrab and Jana Svobodová carried out for over 30 years at the renowned Archa Theatre in Prague. The Centre operates both locally and internationally. It actively collaborates with international theatres and artists, as well as with the rural community in the village of Dvakačovice, where it now focuses much of its activity. The Centre produces theatre performances, organizes the International Summer School of Documentary Theatre, hosts artistic residencies and workshops both in the Czech Republic and abroad. Its work focuses on documentary and socially specific theatre projects that emphasize collaboration between professional artists and representatives of diverse social groups. Land Acknowledgement This conversation was recorded on the unceded, stolen and ancestral territories of the Coast Salish Peoples: the xʷməθkʷəy̓əm (Musqueam), Skwxwú7mesh (Squamish) and Səl̓ílwətaɬ (Tsleil-Waututh), colonially known as Vancouver. Jana and Ondřej joined the conversation from Dvakačovice, Czechia, and Anastasia joined from Broumov, Czechia. It is our duty to establish right relations with the people on whose territories we live and work, and with the land itself. Credits PuSh Play is produced by Ben Charland and Tricia Knowles. Original music by Joseph Hirabayashi. Show Transcript /episode/index/show/fead7325-224e-42bd-8687-9e1413d70f27/id/38983930

Ep. 57 - Influence, Build, Become (2021) 11/14/2025

Ep. 57 - Influence, Build, Become (2021) Gabrielle Martin chats with Cole Lewis, Patrick Blenkarn and Sam Ferguson about their show, 2021, coming up at the 2026 PuSh Festival! Show Notes Gabrielle, Cole, Patrick and Sam discuss: How does the form of the game highlight and confront the deep personal stories on which the piece is based? How is the video game form related to the practice of acting? How do the technical aspects, including data and AI, affect the piece? How did you come together as a team and what are your different roles in creating the piece? How does the audience member play or embody the central character, and what is the difference between becoming and influencing? Where does witnessing end and participation begin? How do personal artifacts influence the game, and the choices within it? How do you navigate the line between technological wonder and moral discomfort? What does consent mean for someone who has passed on? About 2021 Under the glow of a flickering screen, a daughter reconstructs her deceased father. Pixel by pixel, contradiction by contradiction. 2021 is a live performance where theatre, AI, and video-game storytelling converge, blurring the boundary between human remembrance and machine logic. An audience member steps into the role of Brian, an unhoused veteran reliving his final weeks inside a looping digital hospital: a labyrinth of corridors, bureaucratic dead ends, and fleeting human contact. Guided by his daughter’s narration, fragments of data become playable memory. Each decision glitches reality a little more. How do we provide dignity in death to those we fundamentally disagree with? Part elegy, part experiment, 2021 exposes the tenderness and terror of digital resurrection. It asks not whether machines can think, but whether memory itself is a kind of simulation. About the Guests Guilty by Association (GbA) is an interdisciplinary performance collective that shifts its process with each new project. Led by Co-Artistic Directors, Cole Lewis + Patrick Blenkarn, they seek to expand what theatre can do, devising work from design ideas, exploring modes of storytelling, and scheming to fuse media to the stage. The Elbow Theatre dissects the human condition. We develop shows that question accepted truths. Our productions engage our audiences with the realities of our world. Through process and production, The Elbow presents theatre that promotes caring for, and understanding of, each other. The Elbow was founded in 2012 by Itai Erdal and is based out of Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada. Cole Lewis (she/her) is a mom and mad theatre artist from St. Catharines, Ontario. She specializes in creating live performance from design ideas, exploring new modes of storytelling, and fusing technologies to the stage. Her practice includes directing, playwriting, and the design of moving image works. Twice nominated for Dora-Awards, Cole’s practice uses humour, design, and technology to explore notions of class and violence, expose questions of bias, and unsettle standard conceptions of ‘truth’ to explore alternative futures. She has an MFA in Directing from Yale and her thoughts on performance have been shared at LMDA, Howlround, FOLDA, Yale CCAM, and Canadian Theatre Review. Patrick Blenkarn (he/him) is an artist working at the intersection of performance, game design, and visual art. His research-based practice revolves around the themes of language, labour, and democracy, with projects ranging in form from video games and card games to stage plays and books, with subjects as diverse as the labour of donkeys to the valuation of art to historical date farming practices in Iraq. He is a polyglot, programmer, animator, musician, and stage director. He is also the co-creator of asses.masses and co-founder of videocan, the national video archive of performance documentation. Sam Ferguson (he/him) is an award-winning sound designer/composer from Toronto. After moving to Vancouver to study under acclaimed electroacoustic music composer Berry Truax he returned to Toronto where he became involved with theatre. This experience led him to enroll in the Yale School of Drama where he received an MFA for sound design. Since graduating he has returned to Toronto and has been working in the industry ever since. Land Acknowledgement This conversation was recorded on the unceded, stolen and ancestral territories of the Coast Salish Peoples: the xʷməθkʷəy̓əm (Musqueam), Skwxwú7mesh (Squamish) and Səl̓ílwətaɬ (Tsleil-Waututh), colonially known as Vancouver. Cole, Patrick and Sam joined the conversation from Münster, Germany. It is our duty to establish right relations with the people on whose territories we live and work, and with the land itself. Credits PuSh Play is produced by Ben Charland and Tricia Knowles. Original music by Joseph Hirabayashi. Show Transcript /episode/index/show/fead7325-224e-42bd-8687-9e1413d70f27/id/38983865

Ep. 56 - The Art of Contortion (Nadère arts vivants) 01/23/2025

Ep. 56 - The Art of Contortion (Nadère arts vivants) Gabrielle Martin chats with Andréane Leclerc of Nadére arts vivants for the Season 3 Finale of PuSh Play! Throughout the Festival, Andréane will be sharing her practice through a variety of workshops and consultations for students and professionals as part of a PuSh Festival Artist Residency. Show Notes Gabrielle and Andréane discuss: How do you integrate difficult contortion movements with somatic practices? What is the relationship between your practices 20 years ago and those you have today? How do you write circus? What does it mean to deconstruct and body and language of contortion? What is dramaturgy in this context? How are you working in the community? How does contortion inform non-contortionist bodies? What does relational ecology look like in the rehearsal process and onstage? What are you currently researching? About Andréane Leclerc A conceptual and performance artist, Andréane Leclerc is interested in human encounters that guide her towards interdisciplinary and interartistic processes. Trained as a contortionist (National Circus School of Montreal, 2001), she draws inspiration from her 20 years of circus practice to reflect on contortion as a philosophical posture and to develop her scenic language. Her approach, focused on listening, relational ecology and perceptive attention, is part of new body practices emerging from the somatic and performance fields. In 2013, she completed a master's degree on the dramaturgy of prowess at the UQAM theater department. That same year, with her partner Geoffroy Faribault, she founded the company Nadère arts vivants in order to pursue her exploration of a body/matter evolving in sensation rather than in sensationalism. She created the conceptual pieces Di(x)parue 2009; Bath House 2013; Mange-Moi 2013; Cherepaka 2014; The Whore of Babylon Featuring The Tiger Lillies 2015; Sang Bleu 2018; À l'Est de Nod 2022 and (X) currently in creation. Her pieces have been presented in Tokyo, Florence, Cairo, Tenerife, Sao Paolo, Guadalajara, Chicago, Rouyn-Noranda and Montreal, on contemporary stages, as well as in museums and galleries. In parallel to her artistic career, Andréane Leclerc is a teacher and offers contortion classes to physical artists since 2015. She also develops interdisciplinary dramaturgy workshops for circus, dance, theater and performance artists (Studio 303, En Piste, Playwrights workshop Montreal in Montreal, La Gata Cirko in Bogota, La Grainerie in Toulouse, Fabbrica Europa in Florence). In 2017, she participated in the creation of Cirque OFF, a living manifesto for the biodiversity of circus arts in Montreal (Studio 303). She also occasionally act as a dramaturgy and movement consultant (Dialogue of Disobedience & Black light, white noise by and with Dana Dugan, 2018 & 2022) and performs for various international projects (Variations pour une déchéance annoncée by Angela Konrad, 2012; The Tiger Lillies Perform Hamlet since 2016). Land Acknowledgement This conversation was recorded on the unceded, stolen and ancestral territories of the Coast Salish Peoples: the xʷməθkʷəy̓əm (Musqueam), Skwxwú7mesh (Squamish) and Səl̓ílwətaɬ (Tsleil-Waututh), colonially known as Vancouver. Majula joined the conversation from what is now known as Montreal, on the traditional territory of the Kanien’kehà:ka, a place which has long served as a site of meeting and exchange amongst many First Nations including the Kanien’kehá:ka of the Haudenosaunee Confederacy, Huron/Wendat, Abenaki, and Anishinaabeg. It is our duty to establish right relations with the people on whose territories we live and work, and with the land itself. Credits PuSh Play is produced by Ben Charland and Tricia Knowles. Original music by Joseph Hirabayashi. Show Transcript 00:02 Hello, and welcome to Push Play, a Push Festival podcast featuring conversations with artists who are pushing boundaries and playing with form. I'm Gabrielle Martin, Push's Artistic Director, and today's episode highlights the dramaturgy of the circus body and relational ecology. I'm speaking with Andréa Leclerc of Nadir Arvivant, a performer, director, researcher and pedagogue. Andréa Leclerc has developed a somatic practice inspired by contortion for over 25 years. She creates transdisciplinary scenic works based on cooperation, listening and relational ecology. She's also a 2025 Push Artist in Residence, and will be sharing her practice through a variety of workshops and consultations for students and professionals throughout the festival.Find out more at our Push in the Community page. Here is my conversation with Andréa. I am thrilled to be in this conversation with you today. We're going to be talking about your practice and what you'll be up to at Push and what brings you here, what's brought you to this point in your career and what you're thinking about next. And just as we are about to get into that, I really just want to take a moment and acknowledge the land I'm on today. And, you know, this morning I was reading an article about PFAS or forever chemicals in our water, and I know we're all really aware of the signs of our extractive dynamic with the earth. And these signs are all around us and they seem to be pressing in daily. And I just I'm really incredibly grateful to live in this rich nature of so-called Vancouver, these unceded ancestral territories of the Musqueam Squamish and Tsleil-Waututh Coast Salish peoples. And to reflect on what it means to be a citizen of these lands and to live in reciprocity, which, you know, a totally different posturing than this extractive dynamic that's got us here today.And again, where are you where are you calling from? And I would love you just to I would love to hear you share your relationship to the land you're on. Yes, thank you, Gabrielle. I would like to acknowledge that the dramaturgy called Spirit, which runs through another of the event creation, has been shaped by contact with various unceded indigenous territories where beings and their memories coexist. So I'm joining this conversation from Jojagi Mounia in Montreal, which has long been a meeting place for diplomatic activities between indigenous nations. You started practicing contortion over 25 years ago, and this has evolved into your own unique somatic practice and pedagogy. And many many people would not associate contortion with its references to circus, virtuosity, the extreme, you know, painful looking positions with somatic practice, which tends to refer to more internal mind body methodologies. I would love it if you can describe how you made the connection between contortion, the contortion you were practicing, you know, when you started 25 years ago and the contortion you practiced today. 03:13 Yes, that's a very good question, because it's actually at the core of my problematic that has been leading my research from all that disconnection between what I perceived and live and embody my contortion body and all the perceived from and the perception from the audience that they were projecting upon my body when I was doing more classical circus forms. So since I was very young, contortion always have been for me a place for breath and accessing imaginary landscape and other sphere that were for me very fertile in terms of creation. And I always wanted and so new narratives and so on. So I was really traveling throughout my body and it was a way to resonate with the world and a way to be and live, experience the world. And so that always have been something I wanted to share with the audience.But then I'm starting from a very classical approach of contortion. So I was I did my education at the National Circus School in Montreal and I graduated in 2001. So a few years ago now, I've been really, fun, highly skilled, like contortion practice. So sitting on the head on handstand with very precise code and codification from spectacular, I would say, marketing law, when I'm understanding that. And so by, but that was just a way to do. And so by traveling the world working as a contortionist, at some point, even though, like, I was also formed as a contemporary circus artist, I always felt so unsatisfied by the impossibility to reach the audience with what I wanted to express.So then I was like, okay, so then how can I do that? And at some point, I did one creation in Germany. And we it was the first time I was doing like, proper, I would say, research on quantum physics. And it was a show inspired by quantum physics. And we had talks with researchers and scientific and scientists. And there was like an opening on new possibilities. And so there was very clear dramaturgical choices that has been made in matter to be linked with the subject. And so for me, there was a before and an after, because with that creation, there was a possibility to question the codification of how to write circus.And so art did not add to happen in between the circus technique. But the technique and the body and the circus body could talk itself out. Then there was some limitation of my research by was I opening door to actually come back to the university in theaters studying dramaturgy of the body, where I really passed few years to deconstruct the language of spectacular deconstruct the language of contortion deconstruct the body of contortion to try to make this body a matter for scenic representation.And how does that body through contortion, of course, because that is my first entrance door, how does that body can generate imagination and stimulate the true sensation and kinetic kinesthetic, and also composition of the stage, stimulate the imaginary role of the audience? So how can it become a language that audience can read? And that is really dramaturgy, right? Like just for our listeners who may not be as familiar with that term, or when you talk about dramaturgy of the body or dramaturgy of the circus body. 08:00 I can also reflect on how I interpret that. But can you kind of outline that a little bit more? Actually, yeah, I think it's a, I can go further, it was more about then after that to deconstruct and enter this somatic practice, so a language. So I was not any more into like a circus language, but I was in an embodied practice of amplitudes. So that was how I could actually get out from the spectacular aspect from the contortion to enter like a more sensation tools of writing. But then after that, from And then I can develop more about what is made that somatic practice, of course, but then the idea was really to enter about into interrelation of the body and how like composition of the body can generate new ideas or new meaning through sensation.So basically, I've been working a lot upon Francis Bacon and logic of sensation of Gilles Deleuze in order to get out of a way to represent in a narrative way or in an illustrative way, but to really work around the figure and the dramaturgy of the sensation. And with the painting of Francis Bacon, it's also about how the body relate to the space and how the body relate to oneself and how the body relate to the overall and the triptych, so the whole composition of the painting together. So for me, that really became true, like an abstract body made of flesh, bones, sensation and finding new relation within the body, a place for new composition and rethinking all our perceptive idea upon the body and finding new possibility of adjustment to generate new meanings and new mental representation. And so new dramaturgy. Yeah. And I think that term or that word you used reading is really important, like how the audience reads that body.And so often in circus, you know, the acrobatic vocabulary of circus has been expressed in a really until very recently, like a kind of narrow piece, a narrow context with a lot of this projected narrative of, you know, the cabaret or, you know, certain often it's used in theatrical interdisciplinary context in the contemporary world where, you know, there's a there's a text narrative, but what is the what is what does the body say? And I think that you've kind of distilled, you know, hearing you talk about amplitude, distilled kind of the truth of the body through this vocabulary. And then it's like how to dive into that. And to really explore like, what is the truth of that language through the body, which I mean, I think it's obvious to say through the body when we're thinking, okay, circus is clearly usually such a physical practice, but also the the the research development has often physical research has often been a quite operated in a quite a different sphere from say, contemporary dance. And so I've felt that often, when we talk about dramaturgy in the circus realm, it's more like a theatrical dramaturgy in terms of, you know, there's a text or there's like, a storyline, and that is the the physical vocabulary inserts into that, rather than digging into the like, yeah, what is when you really dive into amplitude, or these things that you're referring to, what is that? 12:17 Where does that take you in terms of an experience for the audience and for the artist? I'm really excited by your work.And I guess I think you were already talking about what's been revealed, you know, yeah, you did your master's degree on dramaturgy, the circus body at the University of Quebec at Montreal. And do you have anything further to share about what that revealed has revealed to you? Yeah, but to answer what you just said, or to rebound on what you just expressed around circus, I think, yeah, there's a there was an idea in content in modern circus in mother to wish to tell a story that to break out the traditional circus was to add dance and theater to circus where in a more multidisciplinary approach and in the we're calling it more like a mosaic type of writing of following each of the act and the prowess, and then inserting some theater and dance. And so for me, I was more thinking about if if circus is an art form, it needs to be talking on its be capable to talk on its own and express itself on its own. So more about how to dig into the language not only of the circus, but of the prowess, which is normally a vocabulary, sorry, in the circus world. But now to see it really as a complex organization, to unfold that and see how we can recreate now new way of writing in matter to get out of a certain type of tendency and circus not to generalize, because there is very beautiful and extreme, complex works happening. But to I'm still talking about more like the new circus, maybe ideas was still in the cabaret and those more like popular format, I am interested into searching beyond the self and the eye and the meep to enter into something that the artists can talk about something that transcends the personal point of view. Of course, the la pajole, so what they want to talk comes from them, it's their fire. But then after that, through the art piece that they're creating, it goes beyond the eye and they can talk about other subjects and only what they are living inside their body to become something more an encountering between different people, a place to meet. Yeah, which is also unique, because often circus discipline, the whole discipline practice formation is often very, well, I was gonna say individual, yes and no, because interestingly, like I think circus training spaces or where circus artists practice day to day, often tend to be very communal spaces, sometimes more so than dance or community spaces, but clearly it depends where you are. But for example, in Montreal, that was my experience. But also so much of it is solo work, whereas the dance, often a dance student will be focused on developing their skill and their technique in the ensemble context. And obviously, this is a big generalization and it's discipline specific, but within circus, but that often there is such a it's such a self focused practice. So I'm really also interested in your work for how you're working in community through your pedagogical practice and in the how you've designed your creative process and the presentation of your work. 16:25 Yes, it's very interesting what you're saying because it's true that circus has a very solitude aspect to the development of their own discipline. The work of a circus artist is very personal.But then it's interesting how collectivity also organizes itself in a way of living in a type of nomadism or circus nomadism that is still happening and how all like how the circus is traveling as a ladean of that discipline. And so with what you're saying in terms of contortion, I think what I wanted to do is that even from within the circus world, contortion is the only practice that has its own body in terms of an apparatus. So all circus discipline is always in relation to an object. Contortion, its object is its own body. And so I felt really isolated within even the circus world. And so I think that need my personal need to build bridges, my need to be in relation to be in dialogue and to share my practice to find a way that through my practice and all what my practice have been giving me in terms of knowledge, because I really believe that the body's own knowledge are way beyond our mind that can produce.And so it was about how can I build those bridges to enter in dialogue to create new possibilities through that entrance door. And there's a question, how does contortion inform non-contortionist bodies that you've shared as a starting point for your creative approach, or at least in the recent years? So why does that question draw you in and what have you discovered so far? Um, yeah, I mean, in parallel to my studies, I've been asked to give contortion classes to non contortionist people, because people are very interested to do a contortion and explore. And that has been for me, a huge school, I learned so much from all those encounters. And it's a huge drive in my artistic process.Because contortion for me became, with that question became a philosophy, because it was not anymore about what one self can do, because we did a workshop of like 15 hours, I'm not going to show someone to sit on their own head. And so it was more about how to defocus from the goal oriented, and then to really enter a process. That's one thing. Also, because when we didn't 15 hours, or if we're goal oriented, and with contortion, it doesn't goes with the rhythm of the body. And so it's, and especially as we're getting older, because now I were more with professional artists, so we're not six years old anymore, or nine years old, where the body is all very soft and virgin to the life, we hold history, we hold trauma, we hold time that sits within our body has been forming, we hold also belief that has been also forming our body. So with time, by focusing on the process, I realize how the limits and the zone of resistance that we can feel that one that our construction of life has been forming us that we feel that is blocking us to access contortion is actually places of protection. And so we have to find gratitude towards those resistance. They are very important because they're talking to us and they have things to reveal us. So we cannot like avoid what our body is telling us. 21:06 So then, about how does contortion inform non contortionist bodies about how to get in dialogue with your body, and to listen to what your body has to say throughout the process, to dig into those limits that are constructions of oneself, to enter places of amplitudes and opening, because without that without passing those face it phases, then you the body will keep protecting you. So you need to acknowledge that and you need to work with those sensations.And so that's how I am shifting focuses and the mind and to enter in a place, a posture of listening. So now for me, contortion is a is a posture of listening is a posture to enter... /episode/index/show/fead7325-224e-42bd-8687-9e1413d70f27/id/34959315

Ep. 55 - Finding and Meeting the Other (What is Already Here?) 01/20/2025

Ep. 55 - Finding and Meeting the Other (What is Already Here?) Gabrielle Martin chats with Majula Drammeh and Joseph K Kasua. They are presenting a special studio showing and discussion of What is already here? at the 2025 PuSh International Performing Arts Festival. Check out the show on February 7 at the VIVO Media Arts Centre. Show Notes Gabrielle, Majulah and Joseph discuss: For your show, What is Already Here, which stemmed from a 2022 installation, what was the evolution of the project and what were the themes explored? How did it start? How did the pandemic influence the creation process? How have themes of extraction, colonialism and digital technology weave into the work? Why did you choose to call this a “futuristic afro-play” and what do you mean to achieve with this form? What is your collaboration like, given your different points of departure? What drew you to work together, and how do your practices complement one another? About Majula Drammeh I am a performer, dancer, dramaturg and performance maker based in Stockholm and Malmö, Sweden. My main focus is on interactive, participatory immersive work within the fields of dance and performance as well as somatic practices. I am looking to explore how these can act as a bridge for people to participate and discover themselves in an open, permissive and inclusive way. In the interpersonal. I am interested in giving space for both audience/ participants and performers to deal with their own bodily identity and the political baggage it carries. And I strive to present interactive performing arts where the body of the minority is the norm, and hopefully contribute to the decline of history-less of which the non-white body is consigned too. As a performer and dancer my focus is on using somatic practices and experiences to create a focus that is vulnerable, present and invites the participant to be present with themselves too. I use my choreographic and improvisational experiences to find methods of meeting the room, space and objects to create a relational bridge to them. These are also methods I communicate in my teaching. I work as a dramaturg for mainly dance artists and I am intrigued with processes and the path they lead the work on. How, with close attention, the process reveals the very core of an artist’s work and clarifies what decisions need to be made when we listen closely. I grew up in Hjulsta/Tensta suburb of Stockholm, Sweden. I studied at the Dance and Circus School in Stockholm in 2006 and received my bachelor’s degree in dance from Laban Center London (2009) and in 2021.I received a master’s degree in performing arts from Stockholm University of the Arts. I have been teaching at Stockholm University of Arts and The Royal Danish Art Academy amongst others. About Joseph K. Kasua Born in Lubumbashi in 1995, Joseph K. Kasau Wa Mambwe is a visual artist, filmmaker and author based in Lubumbashi. He holds a degree in Information and Communication Sciences from the University of Lubumbashi, specialising in Performing Arts (Audiovisual, Cinema and Theatre).His passion for art started very early in Lubumbashi's cinemas, and was nourished by multiple visual influences that later formalised in his artistic practice, which is situated at the intersection of cinema, video art, photography, creative writing and addresses in his work the complexity of memory and identity in a postcolonial urban context. He is a fellow of the Trame 2022 residency at the Cité Internationale des Arts in Paris, of the Delfina Foundation residency programme in England on food politics, of the Tri-continental Quilombo project (DRC - SWITZERLAND - BRAZIL) from 2021 to 2023. Kasau Wa Mambwe also works as a Fixer, Assistant Director, Editorial Assistant and as a Communication Officer for African and Western structures and collectives, among others Les Films de la Passerelle (Belgium), the Lubumbashi Biennale (2019), Museum of Tervuren (Belgium), PODIUM Esslingen (Germany) and GROUP50:50 (DRC - SWITZERLAND - Germany). Land Acknowledgement This conversation was recorded on the unceded, stolen and ancestral territories of the Coast Salish Peoples: the xʷməθkʷəy̓əm (Musqueam), Skwxwú7mesh (Squamish) and Səl̓ílwətaɬ (Tsleil-Waututh), colonially known as Vancouver. Majula joined the conversation from Stockholm, Sweden, and Joseph joined from Lubumbashi in the DR Congo. It is our duty to establish right relations with the people on whose territories we live and work, and with the land itself. Credits PuSh Play is produced by Ben Charland and Tricia Knowles. Original music by Joseph Hirabayashi. Show Transcript 00:02 Hello and welcome to Push Play, a Push Festival podcast featuring conversations with artists who are pushing boundaries and playing with form. I'm Gabrielle Martin, Push's Director of Programming, and today's episode highlights interpersonal processes and works that give birth to themselves. I'm speaking with Majula Drammeh and Joseph K. Casao-Wamambue, Push artists in residence who will be developing their work, what is already here, in residency during the festival and sharing the studio showing and conversation on February 7th, 2025. In a world fixated on unyielding technological progress, this interactive theater installation in development urges audiences to reconnect with the tangible through a resounding affirmation of collective belonging. Set in a subterranean laboratory built from discarded electronic waste, the work in development draws on ancestral wisdom and Afro-futurist divisions, inviting participants to challenge their digital dependencies and rediscover what it means to be human in a time of digital alienation. Born and based in Lubumbashi, Democratic Republic of Congo, Joseph K. Casao-Wamambue holds a degree in information and communication sciences from the University of Lubumbashi with a specialization in performing arts. From theater and cinema to photography, installation and creative writing, Joseph's work addresses the complexity of memory and identity in a post-colonial urban context. Rooted in dance and choreography, Majula Drammeh's artistic practice explores how the performing arts can provide spaces for interpersonal relationships, addressing vulnerability and challenging societal norms. Her work often exists in non-traditional theater spaces and asks the participants to fully emerge themselves in topics such as time consumerism in a capitalist age. Here's my conversation with Joseph and Majula. It's really nice to be in conversation with you today. I'm really looking forward to chatting with you more about this project, about your practice. Thank you for joining me. I know it's evening where you are, it's morning where I am. I'm going to start by just acknowledging where I am joining this conversation from. So I am on the stolen ancestral and traditional territories of the Coast Salish peoples, the Musqueam, Squamish and Tsleil-Waututh. And as a settler here, it's important. I'm responsible to continue my thinking and education on what the history of colonization looks like here and its implications and ongoing effects today. And I think something that's really interesting is thinking and learning I've done around the different types of colonialism and their impacts today and how that affects what colonization looks like today or neocolonialism based on where we are. 03:01 With my own background, my father coming from Zimbabwe, colonization now looks much different than it has here in Canada. And so, you know, I think that's important in framing the difference specifically between settler colonialism, where large numbers of settlers claim land, become a majority, and often employ a logic of elimination, engineering the disappearance of the original inhabitants versus an extractive colonialism where colonizers, you know, destroy or push away indigenous inhabitants to access resources, but more typically depend on mediation and the labor of the indigenous peoples. And and then other forms like planter or trade colonialism, and this is there's one kind of very simple and nice reference, a typology of colonialism by Nancy Shoemaker. That's a great reference. And so that's kind of some of my thinking today that I wanted to share. And Joseph and Majula, could you please share where you are joining the conversation from? 04:11 So I'm joining the conversation from Lumbashi. Lumbashi is, I can say, the second biggest city in the Republic Democratic of Congo. It's a city full of mining and exploitation, so it's really related to the colonialism history that you were talking about. And I was born here, and I've always acknowledged that Lumbashi, as a qualification, they say that it's a copper city. And for all my life, I haven't really been in touch with the copper, so that's symbolized the fact that our land don't really belong to us. So there are so many people, so many countries that are under us, and taking all the decisions that belong to us. So yeah, I'm joining from this territory. 05:24 and I am joining from Stockholm, Sweden, and actually I have no roots to this country because my mother is from Finland and my father is from Gambia and they ended up here because of work in the 70s. So in Sweden we call people that have a parent of colour and a parent from another country people of in betweenesship. So we're in between wherever we are basically. So yeah and I think this has coloured my experience as a human throughout my entire life and I mean Sweden is a very rich and very social democratic country or it has been until quite recently it's more right-wing now and I mean it's not dealt so much with its past in terms of I mean it actually still has in one sense a colony in the far north with the Sami people who are the Swedish indigenous people and it's still a very very hot topic here and it's just recently passed maybe I would say eight to ten years that Sweden has actually also acknowledged the fact that they were dealing with slave trade and owned a colony in St. Bartelemy. So yeah I'm in all of that mess with my in betweeness ship. 07:16 Thank you for sharing that. I want to dive right into talking about what is already here. So this is a project born from thinking on the pandemic's impact on the way we socialize and the wider dematerialization of social and human relations. So it stemmed from a 2022 interactive installation of Joseph's Terre toi rue men or human territories. And what is already here, your collaborative project is a futuristic Afro play in which you explore a number of conspiracy theories about surveillance and talk about Africa as the place from which all the resources and green energies destined to save the world from its climate crisis are drawn. Can you talk about the evolution of the project both in its form and in the research trajectories or themes explored? 08:05 I think, of course, the project started out as a personal reflection, as you said, but now Modula is here. And for me, I think it's changed everything. I mean, procedures, approach, and even form. And so my background is from theater, but I've made a kind of big detour in video, in film, and visual art. And Modula came from a dance background, mainly. So our meeting made us rethink the form we wanted to give to our project, in a way, I can say. So it was this kind of regeneration that led us to think of a border piece, in a way, in which dance for words, words for sounds, for play, for let's say for life. And then Modula and I, I don't know, should I talk about how we met? That's what you told me. How we started the project. 09:22 But I would also love to hear more about, can you talk about the evolution of the project, both in its form and in the research trajectories or the themes explored, the more you started to now, going back to the beginning. 09:38 In 2022, I started a reflection on the project and at that moment, I was calling it a reboot, reboot because I wanted to reboot myself, considering myself as a machine because I studied communication and mass media sciences. After the school, I was working with so much artists, festival, art space as a community manager sometimes, but communication officer, mostly, and I remember that time I had often five Instagram, five Twitter, five Facebook accounts, and at a certain moment, I wanted to, let's say, to reconnect a bit because I realized that I was more connected to people who were far from me and I was really far from people who were close to me. So I started thinking about this situation in a way, and then I had to develop the project into a residency in Switzerland, where I prefer to call the project Terre d'Oruma in French, human territory, because I realized that since the pandemic, we have been calling to, let's say, to end with physical meeting with social interaction, but then I started to think, we were already in that situation before with our phone, with too much screen around us, so we were in touch with people, but not really, and then the lockdown made us think really about this situation, because then we had a kind of official restriction so that, okay, don't meet people, don't talk to people, don't be in touch with people, so I mean, this in a way amplified the reflection that I had, and I remember that I wanted to call the project Terre d'Oruma because I was in need of meeting people in different territories, in different places, so all the residency that I wanted to be going out, meeting people, discussing with them, and kind of creating a map of a certain humanity that I was in lack of, and while in this residency, I met Madula in a very interesting festival in Riga, and Madula was talking about those things, the same as me, so we're like, okay, and then we start discussing, we start growing the conversation, and then I remember that the discussion that I had with Madula helped me a lot to construct, to build the performance that I was working on in Switzerland, so once I did that, I was like, okay, the next step of the project was supposed to be some things taking plus more physical, and I know that I've been far away with those visual art projects mostly, exhibition, installation, and I would love to experience something more physical because, yeah, in a way the project needs something like this, and I couldn't see someone else with whom I could develop it if it was not Madula, so I asked her if she could join the project, the adventure, and yeah, she was okay, so here we are. 13:25 During the pandemic, first I was like, yeah, now we have the possibility to be in solitary. But we weren't quite the opposite. We were on the phones. Everything possible was made through the lens, like all meetings and all decisions. Everything just went more and more into the digital. And I was worried about how do we, how can we won't be able to reverse this? And I don't mean it's a bad thing. I mean, we wouldn't have been able to do what we're doing here now if it wasn't because of Zoom, basically. But I mean, I have always worked in the interpersonal. So that became really hard for me to do any kind of work in that sense. And I was also worried about social media addiction and all these addictions that come along with using these devices and started to read more on that. And also with inspiration from like meditation practice and practice from moving with other bodies as a dancer. I felt that now is my time to be off the phone. I mean, after the pandemic, I decided to get a dumb phone so I don't even own a smartphone anymore because I wanted to be with humans and meet them. And on that trajectory, I met Joseph who was in the same thought as me, as myself. So yeah, and came from a totally other background than I did. And also didn't think in the frame of like, because for me, it's very challenging to see things in the boxes of this is theater, this is dance, this is performance, this is visual art. Because I don't believe that we actually express ourselves in those framed ways. I mean, we're complex. So our art will be complex. And so when he said that he's open for like doing something that has anything necessary for it to be art that we want to put in it, I'm like, yeah, that's exactly what I want to do. So yeah, that's the art. 16:00 And I'm hearing these, and also like reading from what you've written about the project, this thinking around social networks, the effect of both the pandemic and our, you know, digital technology on social networks and how these are redefining the social and even ethical codes of how humans interact and make the world this is something you've written about. And, and this, what is already here also is looking at surveillance and green energies and its relation to extraction of resources from Africa. How, how has it, how have those themes? How did those connect with the project for you from what you've been talking about in terms of like how we socialize in the digital technology implications? 16:50 And I can say a few words and then perhaps Joseph wants to say something too. But for me, it wasn't so much about like, oh, should we work with these materials? I mean, coming partly from Africa, you see how resources are taken from countries and made into devices and, you know, we see it with our own eyes. So we have I think we just have that I felt when we discussed that we like have this common pre-knowledge of like, we know it's not just the phone you get in the store. We know that the track of where it comes from and where the like contents of the phone with the actual physical parts come from and where they end up, you know, as well. And so for me, it felt not so strange to have that connected to this. So it becomes like a zooming out. Like if we look at if we go from the from the social media and zoom out and look at the broader picture, that's kind of where we are, you know. So then we could bring those things into the to the work. So that's how how I do it. 18:08 As you mentioned, she's also from, she has African origin. So, I mean, in a way what is already here is some things that we really want to embody in a way, our history. And I'm someone who came from Congo. We know all the politics and all the, where the resource came from. But in a way we were thinking about to bring this narrative on a political level in a way. So that to just make people think about, I think that what is already here is some things also very related to Majula and I as humans first. And so as human, as we belong to some history, we belong to some narratives. And we wanted to bring those narratives on stage with us. So it's not just Joseph coming to play some things that have been experienced. I also want to come with all my context, with all the politics around me. And that's in a way pushes to talk about where the others resource come from. They come from Africa, from Latin America, from also so, but the context we know the most is maybe where we come from. I mean, Congo for me. And for example, the lithium staff, the electronics car, all the world that you know in Congo, in a way it supports those production. The green vehicle, the people who paid the tributes, they are from Africa and mainly from Congo. In a way it's good to bring those narratives on the stage and to tell to the world that, okay, this is what is happening. So me coming here as a patient is not only talking about my disease, it's also to talk about the disease of all my people, all the region where I come from. Because it's like almost three hours from where I am, when they took the lithium and everything. So yeah, it's a reflection that, so because I believe that art is not just being in one state and creating beauty. I mean, we start do art when we end up with the beauty and we start telling story about our story, let's say. So yeah,... /episode/index/show/fead7325-224e-42bd-8687-9e1413d70f27/id/34798525

Ep. 54 - Conjuring the Future (The Goldberg Variations) 01/16/2025

Ep. 54 - Conjuring the Future (The Goldberg Variations) Gabrielle Martin chats with Clayton Lee, who will be presenting The Goldberg Variations at the 2025 PuSh International Performing Arts Festival. Check out the show on January 30 at the Waterfront Theatre, supported by CMHC Granville Island. Show Notes Gabrielle and Clayton discuss: Why do you only perform the Goldberg Variations once per engagement? What does it mean to identify as a performance artist and not just a musician? What are your thoughts in relation to care and consent in your work? To what extent is your own story the subject of your artistic projects? How do you use performance to actively reshape your life? What is allowed and not allowed in different performance contexts, and how do you respond to this? What did it mean to get married as part of a performance? What contexts are you currently playing with in your future work? How do we continue this work beyond? About Clayton Lee Clayton Lee is a Canadian curator, producer, and performance artist. He is currently the Artistic Director of Fierce Festival in Birmingham, UK and, as part of the Living Room Collective, will be representing Canada at the 2025 Venice Biennale of Architecture. Land Acknowledgement This conversation was recorded on the unceded, stolen and ancestral territories of the Coast Salish Peoples: the xʷməθkʷəy̓əm (Musqueam), Skwxwú7mesh (Squamish) and Səl̓ílwətaɬ (Tsleil-Waututh), colonially known as Vancouver. Clayton joined the conversation from Toronto, on the traditional territory of many nations including the Mississaugas of the Credit, the Anishnabeg, the Chippewa, the Haudenosaunee and the Wendat peoples and is now home to many diverse First Nations, Inuit and Métis peoples. We also acknowledge that Toronto is covered by Treaty 13 with the Mississaugas of the Credit. It is our duty to establish right relations with the people on whose territories we live and work, and with the land itself. Credits PuSh Play is produced by Ben Charland and Tricia Knowles. Original music by Joseph Hirabayashi. Show Transcript 00:02 Hello and welcome to Push Play, a Push Festival podcast featuring conversations with artists who are pushing boundaries and playing with form. I'm Gabriel Martin, Push's Director of Programming, and today's episode highlights a future conjuring and adding texture to the conversation. 00:17 I'm speaking with Clayton Lee, artist behind the Goldberg Variations, which is being presented at the Push Festival January 30th, 2025. Through an unapologetic investigation of desire, power dynamics, and identity, Clayton Lee explores his childhood obsession with the professional wrestler Bill Goldberg and the impact it has had on his sexual and romantic history. 00:38 The perplexing crossroads between dominance, submission, heartbreak, and vulnerability are laid bare in this candid and thoroughly unconventional performance, where fantasies are both indulged and deconstructed. 00:50 Clayton Lee is a Canadian curator, producer, and performance artist. He is currently the Artistic Director of Fierce Festival in Birmingham, UK, and as part of the Living Room Collective will be representing Canada at the 2025 Venice Biennale of Architecture. 01:06 Here's my conversation with Clayton. A thrilling to be talking to you, thrilling to be part of the festival. Before we dive right into it, I would like to acknowledge that I'm on the stolen, ancestral, and traditional territories of the Coast Salish peoples, the Musqueam, Squamish, and Tsleil-Waututh. 01:29 And I think today it's important to acknowledge the recent passing of Murray Sinclair, the Anishinaabe Senator, and renowned Manitoba lawyer, who led the Truth and Reconciliation Commission. He passed on November 4th. 01:44 And he served as co-chair of the Aboriginal Justice Inquiry of Manitoba and directed the pediatric cardiac surgery inquest into the deaths of 12 children at a Winnipeg hospital before taking the reins of the TRC, one of the... 02:00 important bodies in Canada's recent history, which released its final report in 2015. And his work with the TRC, well with his work, his conclusion was that residential schools amounted to a cultural genocide, or his conclusion with his collaborators. 02:19 And this conclusion, this document has reshaped Canadians' understanding of the government-run boarding schools that devastated generations of Indigenous communities. And I'd just like to share a quote from him. 02:32 We have described for you a mountain. We have shown you the path to the top. We call upon you to do the climbing. And Clayton, where are you joining this conversation from today? Well, normally I'd be in Birmingham, UK, but today I'm calling from Toronto, which is the traditional territory of the Anishinaabe, the Haudenosaunee, and the Wendat, as well as the treaty territory of the Mississaugas of the Credit. 02:59 Unlike many artists, you prefer to only perform the Goldberg gradations once during an engagement. So for example, you requested to perform only one show at the Push Festival. Why is that? Oh, there's so many reasons for that. 03:17 You know, I think the kind of major difference between the ways in which I approach making versus other folks is I identify as a performance artist. And whereas I think most of the folks in the festival or in the festival circuit come from theater or dance kind of lineages and theater and dance, you know, have this kind of tradition of repeatability, right? 03:39 Where they make the work and then they kind of repeat it over and over again, hopefully on tour or over multiple weeks in a single city. And I'm, you know, for any number of reasons, I've framed Goldberg, the Goldberg variations as kind of a one-off live encounter event. 03:58 What this means for me is one, that the work is never the same twice. So the work is always being built and added onto it's iterative process. I kind of vaguely shape the conceptual framework for the piece is box sculptor variations with his 30 variations. 04:18 And the idea is every time I perform, I add one or two new variations to the work. And I'm interested simultaneously in what it means to present large scale work and to think about the spectacle of the live encounter and how to do this in ways of, ways within scarcity mindsets, right? 04:39 Where we don't have ton of money, but how do we pull all our resources into a way that feels big and bold and, you know, more daring than a kind of two or three performance run could be. So I really throw all the excitement into one basket and do it. 04:59 in that way for this. The stakes are high. The stakes are high and I think that's the way I like to kind of frame it, right? I really think about this performance as a score that I've built and I have no idea how it'll work and then the minute the performance starts the roller coaster begins and you know you can't get off of it and whatever happens happens and that's the kind of level of chaos slash controlled chaos I really thrive in. 05:29 Yeah and I really and I think the audience can feel that too, right? Because it's this one-off thing. They are kind of learning and experiencing it at the same time as I am. It is super exciting and you use the element of surprise and one result of this can be audience members yourself or your collaborators and or collaborators faced with the unexpected. 05:51 What are your thoughts on care and consent in relation to your work given this kind of the unexpected? Yeah, I think consent, of course, is key in all cases. And care, I have a funny relationship with care in the context of live performance, right? 06:11 And there's an artist named Bruno Gio who talks about how care is often a strategy to kind of maintain the status quo, that if we're never unable to kind of feel discomfort, how do we actually find new ways of being, right? 06:25 Not to say I'm explicitly interested in kind of abandoning care or kind of rejecting it, but for me, the work is not just about care. And I think when you or the audience experiences it, you'll kind of see very quickly that that's not part of the work. 06:43 And simultaneously, I'm interested in this kind of question around how artists of color are positioned within contemporary performance, right? This kind of critical need for representation, but the kind of limits of it. 06:58 And what I mean by that is, artists of color are often meant to be the kind of spokesperson for their communities. They're kind of intersecting communities. And for me, I'm not interested in doing that at all. 07:10 What if we don't position ourselves as forces of good necessarily, but forces that are kind of complex and are asking these kind of tangly, often unethical, often problematic questions, right? And what if we make that the starting point of the work and go from there? 07:29 And then I think the other kind of conversation around consent is, and perhaps this goes back to this kind of fine distinction between dance theater and performance art, but I think audiences often forget that there is inherent agency in their role as an audience member, that they can get up whenever they want, that they can leave whenever they want, that if they're gonna talk during the performance, 07:49 no one's gonna really stop. There are kind of these kind of standard practices in place, but also who's gonna stop them, right? And actually, I'm interested. interested in the ways in which audience members can or cannot exercise their own agency in the performance, and I can invite that in, right? 08:10 When I, you know, said earlier about kind of creating the score, it's like the kind of audience is in a way co-creating it with me, and if they want to kind of respond in any number of ways, that's invited, right? 08:23 You know, there are elements, there are kind of lines I don't cross, like, you know, this is not explicitly, this works not by, you know, it's not whatever, whatever, but it is kind of pushing the boundaries quite intentionally around care and what it means to be, you know, problematic or not, and yeah. 08:43 Yeah, I appreciate what you say about discomfort. I think there's some discourse around the difference between emotional and psychological safety, and that's like, you know, without emotional discomfort, there's no, there's no growth. 08:58 There's no room for diversity of perspective and opinion either, because inevitably we'll be uncomfortable when confronted by really different perspectives. I've presented this work before to kind of somewhat controversial results. 09:19 And I think so often that's coming from a place of what are the audiences or the presenters expectations of me as an artist? Who do they think I am as an artist? What kind of work do they think I make and what kind of artists do they think I can be? 09:37 And actually this work, so much of this work is about dismantling them. And there is this kind of inherent tension of, oh, actually you expect me to do this, but I'm doing this instead, and therefore you feel uncomfortable. 09:48 But then for me, there's the kind of reflection that's kind of quite essential in that. It's like, why, yeah, what were you expecting of me? Where are those expectations coming from? And how do we actually seek to not just dismantle them, but actually add texture to the conversation? 10:06 It should never be as simple as this equals good, this equals bad. I think the current discourse, especially in kind of performance circles are so reductive and simplified in these ways. And actually, no, I reject this wholeheartedly. 10:23 And actually what happens when we play in that kind of gray area and indulge in it where possible. The Goldberg Variations is in part an examination of your own desire. To what extent is your own story the subject of your artistic projects? 10:39 Yeah, that's a good question. You know, this one is very much my quote unquote story, though I often kind of reject this notion of people telling their own story. So I'm simultaneously kind of disgusted by myself and kind of making this work. 10:57 And I think... kind of there are two kind of key differences for me in kind of making this right the kind of you know I first thought of the title and the kind of reason for the title maybe in 2017 so seven years ago um but I wasn't able to make it until two years ago right and the kind of distance I had then that kind of drove that kind of conversation and who I was you know when I first made this are kind of two very different people and that kind of distance was useful but simultaneously I think in thinking about this like one-off encounter or this kind of site responsive work I'm simultaneously interested in this work as an examination of my past but also this kind of present and future conjuring moment right where I really am using this project to think about who I am right now think about the distance between who I am right now and the kind of feelings I'm thinking about you know I was thinking about seven years ago also how do we how do I use this performance to actively reshape my life and how do I use this performance to you know indulge in communities and meet with people that I wouldn't normally meet with right and I think there's something there's something in this work that has actually changed the way I move through this world and one thing what I mean by that is this piece is asking a lot of the audience and also of the presenters right and it you know the kind of work I made when I was first starting it was very small scale I was afraid to kind of take up a space you know I used to travel with a work that was just my laptop right and this work is the kind of opposite of that but if there's something in the kind of conceit of this work and the subject matter that has given me permission to actually ask for things of what if you know as artists we're often so um willing to kind of reduce ourselves or shrink ourselves down to make to make ourselves palatable and easy to tour right so that we're not kind of causing uh what's the word causing labor on to kind of present presenters but actually for me it's this this work is interesting because it's asking what if I start insisting on things or asking for you know crazier crazier things right when I first conceived this work it's always through the lens of like what if I did this what if I did this and those are tied up with ambition desire uh and trying to kind of like wash off this feeling of like not not being able to be an artist or whatever that makes any sense like I think we're so often afraid of the kind of things that we want to be and this piece is a strategy for me to kind of step into that I don't know if I answered your question at all but oh yeah yeah you did um and that giving oneself permission to ask you know I think there's like fear that I would imagine those fear to be perceived as a demand artist, 13:59 but my experience in working with you in this dynamic is not that. And yeah, you can always ask and then it's up to whoever you're engaging with to do what they will with that request. Yeah. And I think a large part of my work, you know, I, my day job is in kind of curating and producing, right? 14:18 Um, so I love kind of working within organizational or institutional frameworks to see what the kind of possibilities are. You know, we think of these spaces as so stagnant and immovable, but actually I'm in part using this work to think about how I relate to these institutions as an artist and using this work to in bigger or small ways shift the ways in which these institutions or organizations work. 14:44 You know, when I did, I was in residency with this piece at the Art Gallery of Ontario for three months and, you know, we had three meetings going back and forth of whether or not I was allowed to use the word faggot into the gallery space. 14:56 And for me, It's with a lot of labor on my part to kind of have those conversations, but it's simultaneously thrilling of like, why can't we use that word? Why can't I use that word in this context? And to not ever, I never approach these things with a kind of certain resolve, but as a kind of opening of, again, what if we do this? 15:16 What is actually allowed? What isn't allowed? Why isn't allowed? And let's get to the very end of that. And if, you know, I'm not allowed to say the word faggot in the context of the art gallery, then that's fine. 15:26 But actually, then we have this conversation and it feels, to me, both funny and potentially, or having the capacity rather to break things open. Right? It's not, for me, it's never just about the word faggot in the fact, it's about what do these conversations break open and allow ourselves to accept as new ways of thinking or working. 15:53 I want to step back to your mention of conjuring future, future conjuring. Can we talk about the content of some of the past iterations of this work? Oh, yes. What to say, what to say. I mean, we'll cut this after if you want me to say this, but the fact that you got married in one of the iterations, talk about future conjuring. 16:19 Yeah. No, absolutely. Yeah, so I'm just trying to think. Yeah, absolutely. This kind of thing of how does this work meet my current moment, right? And, you know, the kind of coyness of so I got married as the finale for my art gallery of Ontario performance. 16:35 And there's this kind of funny thing of recognizing the context where, you know, the art gallery of Ontario often rents its space out for weddings and is famously one of the most expensive venues in the city. 16:45 So how funny would it be if I made them pay for my wedding and did as part of it again. Also, you know, this work is about desire and love and romance and the feelings that come with it. Right. And this kind of funny thing of aligning where I was in my life, i.e. 17:03 I guess about to get married, which is something I also never thought I'd do, but making it part of this conversation felt interesting, you know, and the version. Again, I don't know if we'll keep any of this, but I'll defer to you. 17:16 You know, one of the iteration that you saw on Montreal was there was an extended section where I went in search of a stripper that was really obsessed with. Right. And I spent, you know, dozens and dozens of hours getting in touch with him and trying to find him and, you know, and, you know, and you did. 17:35 Well, I did find him, but he never actually showed up. Okay. I hired him. Another variation. But there's something in this, this thing of like, actually, again, the question is what if I invite this stripper I'm obsessed with into the performance. 17:52 Right. And what happens if I get to meet him? Right. And all these things of Yeah, seeing these kind of questions through to their end. And it's a way for me to kind of find new communities or find new friends or find new collaborators, which otherwise I wouldn't have ever worked with, right? 18:12 I mean, as an example, the New York version, I had the initial... I had this funny dream of like, oh, what if Philip Glass performed in the show? Right? Because I was performing at NYU Skirball, and the year earlier they presented The Tower of Glass by Philip Glass. 18:28 So I was like, oh, what if Philip Glass performed? And then, of course, he wasn't... /episode/index/show/fead7325-224e-42bd-8687-9e1413d70f27/id/34798485

Ep. 53 - Risk and Empowerment (Inner Sublimity) 01/13/2025

Ep. 53 - Risk and Empowerment (Inner Sublimity) Gabrielle Martin chats with Sammy Chien and Caroline MacCaull of Chimerik. They are presenting Inner Sublimity at the 2025 PuSh International Performing Arts Festival. Check out the show on February 7, 8 and 9 at the Vancouver Art Gallery. Show Notes Gabrielle, Sammy and Caroline discuss: What does it look like to transcend eastern and western philosophy in your work overall and in “Inner Sublimity” in particular? How does this project exist within a revitalization of Taiwanese culture? Why is it risky, and empowering, to talk about Taiwan? What is mediumship and what is its power in this performance? How does the space influence the design of the experience? What does it mean to use technology as an extension of the body? What was the creation journey for this piece? About Sammy Chien Sammy Chien 簡上翔 is a Taiwanese-Canadian immigrant and queer artist-of-colour, who’s a multi-award-winning interdisciplinary artist, director, performer, researcher and mentor in film, sound art, new media, performance, movement and spiritual practice. With over 500 collaborative projects, his work has been shared across Canada, Western Europe, and Asia including Centre Pompidou (Paris), the National Centre for the Performing Arts (Beijing), National Art Centre (Ottawa), Stratford Festival, Art Night Venezia (Venice Biennale) and Documenta 15. He’s worked with pioneers of digital performance: Troika Ranch and Wong Kar Wai’s Cinematographer Christopher Doyle and hundreds of internationally celebrated artists and companies. Sammy has been featured on magazines, TV and commercials such as Discorder, Keedan, CBC Arts and BenQ. Sammy is currently co-leading dance projects “We Were One” & “Inner Sublimity”; intergenerational media arts project “Ritual-Spective 迴融”; documentary film “Soul Speaking”, funded by Canada Council for the Arts and BC Arts Council. Sammy is the official instructor of Isadora, Council of MotionDAO, Co-Artistic Director of Third Space Arts Collective and Co-Founder/Co-Artistic Director of Chimerik 似不像, a multi-award winning interdisciplinary non-profit arts organization who’s worked with Google, Microsoft & NIKE, while prioritizing the focus on empowering various underrepresented communities with various sectoral change research and digital community projects such as Chimerik’s Virtual Live Art Database. Sammy is the winner of the Changemaker Award for BCMA 2022 (BC Museums Association) for creative engagements that increase awareness of underrepresented voices & the 2023/2024 Chrystal Dance Prize. About Caroline MacCaull Caroline MacCaull (she/they) is a queer interdisciplinary artist living and working on the unceded and stolen territories of the Coast Salish peoples, including the Musqueam, Squamish and Tsleil-Waututh First nations. As a dance-technology artist her work often questions reality and our perceptions. She holds a BFA from Simon Fraser University School for the Contemporary Arts and has had her work presented by Shooting Gallery Performance Series, Co.ERASGA’s Salon Series, Gallery Series 258, Vines Arts Festival, New Works, K.Format/documenta 15 (Kassel, Germany), Drink & Draw (Berlin), FOUND festival (Edmonton), Festival International de Danse Animée (Réunion) and the Scotiabank Dance Centre. She has been artist-in-residence at What Lab (Vancouver), LEÑA (Galiano Island), Dance Victoria (Victoria, BC), ArtStarts Ignites (Vancouver), DeerLake (Burnaby), Dance on Fluid (Taiwan) and NKK Dance Centre (Siem Reap, Cambodia). As a movement artist she has had the opportunity to collaborate and interpret movement with Peter Chin/Tribal Crackling Wind, Okams Racer, The Falling Company, Oksana Augustine and Restless Productions. Caroline is currently the Co-Artistic Director of the Chimerik 似不像 which has given her the opportunity to work as a New Media/Projection Artist on various projects with many different artists/organizations. Some of these include: Veronique West(Rumble Theatre), Mily Mumford (PTC), Jasmine Chen(Rice and Beans Theatre), Zahra Shahab, Restless Productions, Affair of Honor, Ralph Escamillan(Van Vogue Jam), Luke Reece(Theatre Passe Muraille), Arts Club, Active / Passive, Indian Summer Festival, Stratford Festival and Mayumi Lashbrook(Aeris Korper). Caroline is very grateful to be one of the 2023/2024 Chrystal Dance Prize recipients. Land Acknowledgement This conversation was recorded on the unceded, stolen and ancestral territories of the Coast Salish Peoples: the xʷməθkʷəy̓əm (Musqueam), Skwxwú7mesh (Squamish) and Səl̓ílwətaɬ (Tsleil-Waututh), colonially known as Vancouver. It is our duty to establish right relations with the people on whose territories we live and work, and with the land itself. Credits PuSh Play is produced by Ben Charland and Tricia Knowles. Original music by Joseph Hirabayashi. Show Transcript 00:01 Hello and welcome to Push Play, a Push Festival podcast featuring conversations with artists who are pushing boundaries and playing with form. I'm Gabrielle Martin, Push's Director of Programming, and today's episode highlights collective healing and overcoming our shadow selves. 00:17 I'm speaking with Sami Chen and Caroline McCall, artists behind Inner Sublimity, which is being presented at the Push Festival February 7th to 9th, 2025. Inner Sublimity traverses currents of Eastern and Western philosophy through dance, creating a dynamic dialogue between traditions preserved across generations. 00:36 Through this synthesis of paradigms, the artists spark new connections between disparate cultural backgrounds, carving an artistic practice that challenges colonial narratives and enriches contemporary explorations of spirituality. 00:50 Sami and Caroline are the co-artistic directors of Chameric, a multi-award-winning interdisciplinary non-profit organization consisting of artists from underrepresented groups, from various age groups, backgrounds, levels of experience and disciplines. 01:05 Chameric has collaborated on over 500 multidisciplinary projects, which have been exhibited internationally. Sami is a first-generation Taiwanese-Canadian immigrant and queer artist of colour, director, performer, researcher, and mentor who works with film, sound art, new media, performing arts, and spiritual practice. 01:24 Caroline is a femme-identified queer artist with background in movement, dance, new media, and mediumship. Here is my conversation with Caroline and Sami. And I know just before we hit record, you commented that today is the U.S. 01:41 election, so it's an interesting day to be doing this. There's all sorts of other pressures and nerves in the air. Yeah, it feels like you're saying it feels like a pressure cooker. You know, we are all in right now and not knowing what's going to happen next, but we are in here talking about, you know, you know, this exploration, this spirituality, and it just feels like the right time to be, to have those pressure and then something might come out that we don't even know as well. 02:09 So it's kind of exciting. I appreciate that optimism in terms of the unknown, the unknown can still be a positive place. We are on the stolen ancestral and traditional territories of the Coast Salish peoples, the settler on these lands, and I continue to try to educate myself on the ongoing legacy of colonization, the ongoing colonialism here, and I often lean on or reach to the Yellowhead Institute for their incredible words and just framing the state that we're living in now. 02:55 So I'm just going to share some words from them on with regard to land back. Land theft is currently driven by an unsustainable undemocratic and fatal rush toward mass extinction through extraction development and capitalist imperatives. 03:10 It is further enabled by a racist erasure of indigenous law and jurisdiction. And as Yellowhead Research Fellow Henderson has noted, this fatal rush functions as a kind of malware released into our ecological system. 03:25 Indigenous legal orders embody critical knowledge that can relink society to a healthy balance within the natural world. This change must begin on the ground. Canada ceding real jurisdiction to indigenous peoples for this transformation to happen. 03:40 So thank you to the Yellowhead Institute's land back resources, specifically the red paper. We're going to shift gears a little bit in just getting right into talking about inner sublimity, which is the work, your work that's going to be realized during the push festival. 04:03 inner sublimity traverses currents of Eastern and Western philosophy. And I would love to hear what that looks like and feels like within this work, and how it relates to your wider practices. First, we want to say we love how you frame the question of look and feel, it just right off the bat for us to want to hear that question and really dive right into the body of the feeling, you know, and I will say that is probably where we will begin the process, 04:35 you know, about integrating the East, Eastern and Western philosophy and culture is through energetic practice. So why I say that because, you know, in dance, you know, and embodiment, it is really based on feeling the sentient, right? 04:50 And this senses our primary faculty of to connect everything together in our research, our journeys and inspiration, how we create work. And a lot of that in multiple different cultures and whether it's Eastern or Western, there is a lot of theories and research around consciousness and energy vibration. 05:12 And then for Eastern, it's quite, there is a lot of more focus in terms of energetic practices, such as qigong, it's one of the form. And it's kind of quite a wildly practiced form that focus on the flow of energy in the body. 05:28 So then, you know, you can gain this intelligence and control over energy through the body, which we all have, but just not paying attention and really cultivate, you know, the control or the embodiment of energy. 05:43 So I want to make it. I want to share that with the audience, you know, like the qigong is not just, you know, a practice that has to be its own form, but almost as a philosophy. And I was an inspiration for people to understand that it's just an entry point for us to access energy through our body and our consciousness, right? 06:04 So our mind activating those pathways and then have energy moving through. And it doesn't not only translate visually, but also by feeling energetically and vibrationally as well. So that I would say that is some of the entry point that we have is that you will actually feel the energy shift in the work, how we connect to each other, how we connect with the audience, how we connect with the space and how we connect with the spirit in the space as well. 06:38 Yeah. And I guess I wanted to just also kind of take a little bit of a side note off of that. But when we're talking about Eastern and Western philosophy within this context of this work and in our larger practice, we also really want to go into the nuances and complexities of those kind of dialogues, rather than thinking, oh, everything is great. 06:58 And, you know, we're able to move in this way together. We really want to dive into some of those shadow places where there's hard conversations, there's different kind of, you know, I think in a broad stroke, there's a lot of appropriation of these different cultures. 07:15 And we want to go into those difficult and challenging subjects so that we can arrive to a place where we have a deeper understanding of each other. And so throughout the work, there's moments of very meditative state. 07:28 When we talk about Eastern culture, we talk about this kind of like time passing, how we're witnessing time is a little bit at a slower pace, perhaps. But we also want to go into those moments of tension, conflict and really feel together what it means. 07:45 to be witnessing and experiencing that as a collective, so that we can also make decisions to kind of arrive to a new place together. So that's kind of some of the feelings that we're trying to wrap up within this work and within some of our broader practices within the context of Sami and myself both being from Eastern and Western kind of places. 08:07 Yeah, Kiran, you're right about like how, I mean, we're just talking about generalizing terms, right? Like how Western sense of time is quite linear based, right? You have the beginning, middle, and you're taught to think about narrative, you know, shapes and form, linear kind of progression. 08:25 And then in Eastern, again, generally speaking, you know, I'm generalizing the kind of overall framework of what holds the foundation of the culture a lot of the time, the sense of time is very different. 08:35 It's more cyclical, you know, there is more sense of meditativeness, which, you know, then the time kind of expands differently in the less linear. sense, you know, but of course, acknowledging the globalization, you know, a lot of people say, when I go to Asia, I don't feel the same way. 08:51 It's like, yes, it's modernization, modernity, globalization that's happening. We are in this big mess together, integrating both cultures from different routes, and that messiness and the shadow work, the conflict, you know, the dilemma is why we're also very interested in talking about that discomfort, what that is, and going deep down so we don't stay on this kind of just the point of like the generalization, 09:15 the superficial way of looking at each culture. And how does this project exist as part of a wider revitalizing movement of ancient wisdom and spirituality, specifically Taiwanese? Well, even talking about Taiwan is a very risky, it's anti-oppression work politically to be even talking about Taiwan. 09:39 So it's, I do want to say that it's very empowering to be in a place where we can even speak about that in this current political climate, because for the audience that doesn't understand the political situation, the history that, you know, there is like complex history, like colonialism that's going on in Taiwan that happened over the last 400 years. 10:03 And there were Dutch people and Spanish and Japanese colonialism that happened. And Taiwan has its own people, like my family has been there over 16 generations in our family book, we can trace back for 16 generations. 10:21 And then, and then another seven generations before they were installed in China to the migration. So when we talk about that, right now, Taiwan is being censored to be called a country with, you know, having its own presidency and currency and different, there's difference in culture as well. 10:43 I'm not here. to advocate Taiwanese independence, but I'm just talking about how it is where we are right now in Canada to be able to talk freely about this kind of discourse is actually a super valuable and progressive thing to actually have that kind of value we have right now. 11:01 And I'm grateful for being able to even speak about that. And the revitalization of spirituality in Taiwan is quite interesting because of the culture itself, you know, growing up, I didn't realize until I came to the West, you know, how we are quite conditioned, you know, in our brain to be very spiritual. 11:24 So ancestral rituals. a very common thing we do, everyday lives, we go to temples and it's not specific religion, it's more a mix and match of different folklore religion together. So it just became a lifestyle, right, growing up. 11:39 And we don't even question, just like something that we do with our parents, our grandparents or aunties, uncles, you know, and big families, we all do that together, even friends, you know, when you need certain things, you go to temple for certain, certain like requests that you have, you know, not, I don't want to advocate greed and all that stuff on spiritual, what we can talk about later, but it's just so ingrained in our culture. 12:00 And so it wasn't never a question, even the phone phrase situation, the direction of the space, how we understand energy, it's already in the culture so much. And I don't think people value that so much because just, you know, it's normalized, right? 12:15 And the globalization, the Westernization, it's been deemed as superstition, you know, and being reduced to lower value or uneducated kind of thinking. So the revitalization is about going back to the empowerment of those roots and history and to our spiritual culture that has been rooted for hundreds of years, tracing back and its mixture with indigenous culture as well, with indigenous people in Taiwan as well, 12:44 there is a lot of crossover sharing knowledge that also happened as much as the, you know, the problem of colonization and racial happiness or just also acknowledge that that happens everywhere. So, but now while talking about integration, revitalization and a lot of ritual practice are kind of integrating together in new ways. 13:05 And the young people are finding a, there's almost like a trend to like go back to the roots of what is Taiwanese ritual, Taiwanese spirituality, the kind of a temple shamans that are seen like from the older generation now are being empowered back, like they'll integrate techno music, electronic music, rave. 13:27 parties, you know, all these really like current underground movement with this grassroots kind of an older generational historic culture. Yeah, so that's interesting. Yeah, when we were there in Taiwan, it was quite interesting because we spent four months in Taiwan this last year doing some research and different kind of yeah, practiced in development with this piece as well. 13:54 And so we spent a lot of time having dialogues with various people from different kind of backgrounds and in various kind of religions, either monks or different kind of shamans or in the temples. And it was so interesting to also hear about this kind of almost this need to come back to this like almost emergent feeling of needing to come back to something much larger than yourself. 14:22 I think when we talk a lot about like Westernization in specifically Taiwan, like Taiwan is very heavily reliant on the US right now for their power dynamics. And I think a lot about the control and different invisible things that we don't always see that are happening behind the scenes and how that is also holding Taiwan in a different way. 14:43 And I think coming back to the people and coming back to these kind of everyday rituals is allowing a new kind of sense of belonging and identity that is kind of been missing over the last little while. 14:54 Oh, yes. And speaking of which, I do want to, because Gabriel, you mentioned about the ancient western. It is one of our research from years ago is, many of you might already know this, the word dance, the Chinese character of dance that we're using language in Taiwan that is the traditional character. 15:20 It's like a lot closer to the Oracle bone script. So I'm talking about this ancient Chinese language that's used across the Chinese speakers around the world. The character of dance, its original form is a shaman with holding spiritual tools like jades and feathers, rotating, basically doing ancestral and ancient rituals. 15:44 That is the character where... /episode/index/show/fead7325-224e-42bd-8687-9e1413d70f27/id/34798425

Ep. 52 - From the Ordinary to the Universal (Dimanche) 01/09/2025

Ep. 52 - From the Ordinary to the Universal (Dimanche) Gabrielle Martin chats with Julie Tenret of Focus and Sandrine Heyraud of Chaliwaté about their show Dimanche, which will be presented at the 2025 PuSh International Performing Arts Festival. Dimanche will be presented with our friends at the on February 6, 7 and 8 at the , supported by Vancouver Civic Theatres. Show Notes Gabrielle, Julie and Sandrine discuss: How do you address something with extreme clarity but also appeal to a broad audience? How do you tackle the theme of climate change and denial? Why is it important to show our vulnerability, fragility and smallness in nature? How do you achieve this? What do you mean by the work being “artisanal”? How do you mix physical and object theatre? How does humour as well as emotional distance fit into the work? How would you describe the journey of your two companies coming together? Have your different techniques stayed separate or been blended together? Is the storyboarding process typical for you? How have your artistic practices evolved since both companies were founded in 2009? What can you tell us about your new project? About Dimanche The Companies Focus (created by Julie Tenret) and Chaliwaté (consisting of Sandrine Heyraud and Sicaire Durieux) gathered around the collective writing of Dimanche. For a long time, the two companies had been following and appreciating the work of the other. It became apparent that they had a similar approach, a shared taste for unusual, visual, artisanal and poetic forms of theatre. The three artists decided to pool their talents to create a new form of writing combining gestural theatre, object theatre, puppetry, acting and video. This project is a continuation of their respective research. Since 2016, they have worked meticulously to create a unique, visual and poetic language that draws its inspiration from everyday life, the intimate, the “infra-ordinary”, to tap into the universal. Land Acknowledgement This conversation was recorded on the unceded, stolen and ancestral territories of the Coast Salish Peoples: the xʷməθkʷəy̓əm (Musqueam), Skwxwú7mesh (Squamish) and Səl̓ílwətaɬ (Tsleil-Waututh), colonially known as Vancouver. Bettina joined the conversation from Brussels, Belgium. It is our duty to establish right relations with the people on whose territories we live and work, and with the land itself. Credits PuSh Play is produced by Ben Charland and Tricia Knowles. Original music by Joseph Hirabayashi. Show Transcript 00:02 Hello and welcome to Push Play, a Push Festival podcast featuring conversations with artists who are pushing boundaries and playing with form. I'm Gabrielle Martin, Push's Director of Programming, and today's episode highlights an artisanal approach to connect with humanity. 00:17 I'm speaking with Julie Teneré and Sandrine Heroux, two of the lead artists behind Dimanche, which is being presented at the Push Festival February 6th to 8th, 2025. Between dreamlike fiction and stark reality, Dimanche paints a sharp yet tender portrait of humanity caught off guard by devastating natural disasters. 00:37 It depicts the ingenuity and stubbornness of humans as they cling to habits amid ecological collapse, asking how much longer can we ignore the storm at our door. Directed by Julie Teneré, who graduated from INSAS, the company Focus, from Brussels, creates shows combining theater of objects, puppets, actors, and video. 00:57 The scenic language she proposes is essentially visual, metaphorical, poetic, artisanal, and very close to a cinematographic writing. Trained in the gestural arts, Siqueur Duryu and Sandrine Heroux created Chaluaté Company in 2005. 01:15 Based in Brussels, they defend a visual language without words, poetic, physical, and artisanal, mixing gestural theater, object theater, circus, and dance. Here is my conversation with Julie and Sandrine. 01:31 I would like to acknowledge that I'm joining the conversation from the stolen ancestral and traditional territories of the Coast Salish peoples, so the Musqueam, Squamish, and Tsleil-Waututh. I'm a settler on these lands, and part of my responsibility as a settler is to continue to educate myself on settler colonialism and the indigenous fight for sovereignty. 01:57 It's not just an indigenous fight, but foreign. indigenous sovereignty over these lands. And so I reference it often, the Yellowhead Institute has this really great, many great reports, including the red paper, which looks at how indigenous consent is ignored, coerced, negotiated, or enforced in Canada with regard to land. 02:20 And I'm just gonna share a little excerpt from this red paper. We analyze how the land tenure regime in Canada is structured upon the denial of indigenous jurisdiction through the creation and enforcement of legal fictions. 02:35 This is followed by limited recognition, which includes an evolving notion of the duty to consult and corresponding government and industry responses. So today, while states are encouraged to adopt the principle of free prior informed consent at the international level, in the Canadian context since 2007, when the UN's Declaration on the Rights of Indigenous Peoples was first presented, There has been state opposition to a fulsome implementation of free prior and informed consent. 03:06 And I just really appreciate the clarity of this document and the other Yellowhead documents and what an incredible educational tool it is for myself and I know for others. Julie and Sandrine, where are you joining this conversation from today? 03:23 From Brussels, in Belgium. Great, thank you. And is that where both your companies have been based since they were founded? Yes, exactly. Even though we studied maybe in other countries, we started working really professionally in Brussels and in Belgium. 03:44 And soon I'm going to ask you about the history of your companies because they were both founded in 2009, so they have a beautiful history. But first I want to speak more specifically about kind of the themes of Dimanche. 03:57 So, Julie, you've described your work as aiming to deal with social issues, starting from the intimate, the infra-ordinary, to reach the universal. And this is clearly successful in Dimanche. You know, the climate catastrophe is a subject that there is surprisingly little theatre about considering the scale of impending change for humanity. 04:20 But you both, the focus and Chaluaté, seem to have done something very rare to create this work that addresses the fate of the path that we are on with extreme clarity while connecting deeply with the audience across a range of emotions. 04:36 So I'm curious what you think makes this work successful. Of course, there is the theme that is climate change, that is what we are all experiencing today. And what we concentrated on was the denial in which we found ourselves and the people surrounding us between the conscience and knowing that. 04:59 there is a quick action to take, an urgency and the difficulty to translate it in our everyday lives, in our everyday actions. And so it was, for example, we had this sentence of Bill Watterson in Calvin Hobbs that was saying, this is not denial, it's just the reality that I accept. 05:29 And so it was, yes, all this, this absurdity between this knowledge that we have now with all the scientific evidence that we are facing really an extreme urgency of action facing climate change and this impossibility sometimes in our everyday lives to translate it in actions. 05:54 So that was the starting point. That gives rise to a very sadistic situation and so that creates humor and tragedy, and in our work we try always to talk about tragedy through the prism of the humor and tenderness. 06:17 And it was also to recall big things with very simple means because the show is actually with a very artisanal, an artisanal way of using accessories, etc. And because it shows our vulnerability and fragility facing nature and our smallness facing nature, so that was something we really also, was also possible by the means we use in the show, the tools we use that are object theater with physical theater and puppetry. 06:58 When you say artisanal, because this is a, you know, the word exists in English obviously, but I don't often hear it used in the context of theater work. For you, does that relate to the objects? When you say, what do you, can you explain a little bit more what you mean by artisanal? 07:15 It's that there's not a lot of machinery or very sophisticated. We think that there is a big part of the emotion. It's to advocate something bigger than us, which a very simply way. Simple means. Simple means, you know, and that gives something very fragile and very, very human, it brings humanity and poetry. 07:49 And for example, in Dimanche, there was also the mix between physical theater and object theater where, for example, the body is the landscape. and sort of a metaphorically saying that we are parts of the nature. 08:03 So there was also this game between the scales that is very rich between the fact that you can zoom in the images and then take a certain distance. Yeah, I'm hearing that the play and the humor is really key. 08:19 I mean, and I feel that was my own experience, you know, in reflecting on a subject that's so heavy, you know? Yeah, yeah. Yeah, it just is. But also I think there's something, you know, both of your practices are rooted in object theater, visual theater, physical theater. 08:42 And I think with the use of objects, puppets, There's something about the metaphoric language that you both talk about. And I think that there's something there, too, in terms of our ability to, by taking kind of a step back, or playing with perception, or taking it out of from the very literal kind of narrative theatrical context, where we're seeing like, you know, a couple characters going through this particular series of events, 09:20 I think that the fact that we can relate at moments with a polar bear. That's why also it was very important for us, the question of the humor inside this, this piece is because also it brings an emotional distance. 09:34 And it's activates our sense of proportion, proportion. And yeah, and as you were saying, it it lets us see the absurdity of our human condition. But also, yet it, it brings another point of view, another way of looking at things. 09:56 So it was very important for us not to be in a more realistic approach or scientific approach, because I mean, we're not we are first of all, telling a story and trying to, to put all the means to tell that story. 10:11 Yeah, and humor poetry, it's really something that we always search for. In August 2018, your companies came together to present backup of 30 minute performance at the Edinburgh Festival Fringe. And then Dimanche is the full length development of that work, which I had the privilege of seeing in Edinburgh in 2023. 10:34 Can you talk about the journey of collaboration between your two companies, and also the distinct signatures from each of your approaches in Dimanche? Like will we see, can you refer to a certain use of form or technique as something that's more focus or chalawate, or is it a true blend of aesthetics and techniques? 10:55 Well, I think we have, we met first in 2015. Because we used to have shows that were often presented in the same festivals or in the same theatres, and so our paths often crossed. And I think we had also a common taste for unusual theatrical forms. 11:26 As we were saying, very artisanal way of treating images without words. That was something also that was common to us, that we weren't, we, let's say we, the absence of words aroused visual creativity for the both companies. 11:48 And so even though we had different skills, Judy came more from object theater and puppetry, and with Siqueir we came more from a physical background of the arts of movement. But the language was very similar. 12:06 Of the shows that we had, there was a similar, as she says, language. And so it was very organic, the way that we met and the way that the creation was started. And there was really a blend of these tools without saying, OK, now is the puppetry moment, now is the object theater moment, or the physical moment. 12:32 It was really first to tell the story, what we wanted to tell, what were the images that the subject aroused for us, and then how we can make them the more. And I think we had a different approach. But finally, it doesn't depend about our tools. 13:00 Yeah, you know, it was just because we are a different person, but we tried to write a story and was very concentrated about that. And so we took like three years to create the show. It's a very long process. 13:12 And the first years, we just was writing on the table. We really tried to realize a storyboard and a story and then re-approve it on the stage. And some things are reveals themselves. Very interesting orders, not a duel, and yeah. 13:39 Then we re-write things. Of course, seeing how it works on stage. But re-write, this show really like a movie. re-imagines like a movie, it's our process. And so everything with object theater by other tools, but with object theater, we can dream absolutely every we want. 14:03 There is no, yes, no limits. There is no limits. And then we try to translate all the time. We try to find the translation on the stage because we don't want to write a movie, but we won't write a piece of theater, but it's always to try to find a tradition with a very artisanal language. 14:31 And so we try to create a new language with an remix on and mixed all these skills, but yeah, but it's very, we, the very... La Richesque, the rich, the important things for us, it's the collective processes. 14:54 So there is absolutely not one person on this side. And finally, we talk so much that it's just impossible to see how we find this idea. You know, we talk and you propose something interesting. I propose something not interesting, but because I think about it and you know what I mean. 15:15 So finally, it's always quite magical, because you don't really know how the ideas are aroused, but it's a lot of confiance, how do you say, trust, no, it's a lot of trust between us three, because I think that was something that was very important in the collective work, because there's not one person that is a stage director. 15:48 We are three, really writing and experiencing on scene, on stage, the ideas. So it's a lot of trust and a lot of... And for a show like Dimanche, we have write a show, and finally, we lived a lot of things we really loved, but it was not... 16:07 Serving the proposed. Yes. And so it's a long process. But it's very interesting and funny, you know. It's a lot of joy, yes. It's first a lot of joy to work together and the first years we write at three, but the second years, and then finally, we have a big team with us. 16:37 And the sound in our process of writing is very important. We write the song because we don't speak, like Sandrine said. And so we write a song because we, uh, it's as dramaturgical as the rest of the, the tools, because it also, uh, brings the situations, the, the, yeah, it really participates with us. 17:03 Uh, so we worked with someone that comes, came from cinema. And so that really specialized all the sounds on stage. So it would really come from the different, uh, spaces. And so that was something really, that was, um, uh, a big work also. 17:23 Was that new to this process or had you done that before work with that sound in that way in previous projects? Yes, a lot, but maybe it was, uh, even more specifically worked in Dimanche. And the process of storyboarding, is that also usual for your process? 17:41 That first you're going to sit down and really map it out visually like that? I think for Julie, yes. For us, with Siqueur, it was not so clear, because it depends on the shows we made. Sometimes it came more from improvisation, even though there was a theme and direction we wanted to take. 18:04 Maybe we worked at first a lot already on trying things. For my presentation and for Dimash, it was very necessary, because we talk about a very complex subject. When you improvise something, there is always something very interesting, and it complicates to choose what we follow and what we leave. 18:31 Because we had write a script and a scenario, it gives us a guide. Yeah, like limits. And so it was possible to improvise everything that gives us a very big freedom. Yeah, I guess my next question is about the evolution of your artistic practices. 18:57 As mentioned, both of your companies were started in 2009. I would love to hear about who you were as artists then compared to now. Also, maybe after this process, I'm curious if Julie, you're integrating more mime work and Santorini, you're integrating more puppets. 19:14 If this Dimash creative process has affected how you work in your future projects. Generally, I would love to hear about the evolution of your creative process, your interests. I think it's complicated to know that, because we are writing together a new show. 19:36 That's three right now. So yes, I feel that we always tried at each show to open on new or collaborations or new tools. So on a recent show, we worked a lot with circus, but on another show, we also worked a lot with object theater. 20:01 So it was also always something that was serving the dramaturgy and the story we wanted to tell to go and pick things that can bring the best image that serves the story. It's true that we had never, for example, done puppetry before, but it was very, yeah, it was very exciting to work on that with Judy and it's for sure the fact that we worked on Dimanche for the new show, there's something maybe more evidence than that is, 20:41 of course, that we experienced before. So, After it's difficult to always know how we change in our languages because there are so many influences, so many things that are also maturity in our time and work that changes, of course, the way that we that we avoid the creations. 21:05 But for Dimanche, it was the first time we worked together, the two companies. And so I think I really imagine a movie through the prism of the object because it's my formation. And finally, it's like in a bit too the usually, usually, there's some habits. 21:28 But when I it's interesting for me to have to have the body on the stage all the time, you know, because it's not evident for me, for example. But I really love it. And that brings a very poetry dimension. 21:50 But it's not evident for me, you know. And so I'm very enthusiastic and exciting to see another language and that brings me a lot. But I can explain more. That's great. Can you talk to us about the new project? 22:11 Oh, it's really the beginning. We're starting, we're just starting from the beginning of September. We started working on this new project. But we tried always a subject society through the prism of poetry. 22:25 And so that will be something like that. And we mix again, again, our different tools. But I say different, but finally, it's a mix of what we say. But the language, finally, will be very, I suppose, different from... /episode/index/show/fead7325-224e-42bd-8687-9e1413d70f27/id/34741405

Ep. 51 - Unclassifiable (Bijuriya) 01/06/2025

Ep. 51 - Unclassifiable (Bijuriya) Gabrielle Martin chats with Gabriel Dharmoo, who is presenting Bijuriya at the 2025 PuSh International Performing Arts Festival on January 28 and 29 at the ANNEX, with Music on Main and the Indian Summer Festival and support from the Government of Quebec. Show Notes Gabrielle and Gabriel discuss: How do we artfully engage with colonialism? What does it mean to have a transcultural perspective? What does it mean to be an artist at the intersection of high and low, east and west? Have you always worked across so many forms and disciplines or was there a trajectory that led from one to the other? Are you more interested in self-directed projects these days? What does it mean for you to investigate queerness? Can you talk about the direction of your aesthetic since Anthropologie Imaginaire? What are you working on next? About Gabriel Dharmoo Gabriel Dharmoo is a composer, vocalist, improviser, interdisciplinary artist and researcher. After studying with Éric Morin at Université Laval, he completed studies in composition and analysis at the Conservatoire de musique de Montréal with Serge Provost, graduating with two Prix avec grande distinction, the highest honour awarded. His works have been performed in Canada, the U.S., France, Germany, the Netherlands, Switzerland, Spain, Estonia, Poland, Australia, Singapore, and South Africa. He has received many awards for his compositions, including the Canada Council for the Arts Jules Léger Prize for his chamber work Wanmansho (2017) and the Conseil Québécois de la Musique Opus Award for his opera À chaque ventre son monstre (2018). He was also awarded the Canadian Music Centre's Harry Freedman Recording Award (2018). Having researched Carnatic music with four renowned masters in Chennai (India) in 2008 and 2011, his musical style encourages the fluidity of ideas between tradition and innovation. He has participated in many cross-cultural and inter-traditional musical projects, many led by Sandeep Bhagwati in Montreal (Sound of Montreal, Ville étrange) and in Berlin (Zungenmusiken, Miyagi Haikus). As a vocalist and interdisciplinary artist, his career has led him around the globe, notably with his solo show Anthropologies imaginaires at the Amsterdam Fringe Festival (2015) and the SummerWorks Performance Festival (2016). They also explore queer arts and drag artistry as Bijuriya (@bijuriya.drag). He is an associate composer at the Canadian Music Centre and a member of SOCAN, the Canadian New Music Network, and the Canadian League of Composers. Since 2015, Gabriel has been a PhD candidate at Concordia University's PhD "Individualized Program" with Sandeep Bhagwati (Music), Noah Drew (Theatre) and David Howes (Anthropology). Land Acknowledgement This conversation was recorded on the unceded, stolen and ancestral territories of the Coast Salish Peoples: the xʷməθkʷəy̓əm (Musqueam), Skwxwú7mesh (Squamish) and Səl̓ílwətaɬ (Tsleil-Waututh), colonially known as Vancouver. Gabriel joined the conversation from what is now known as Montreal, on the traditional territory of the Kanien’kehà:ka, a place which has long served as a site of meeting and exchange amongst many First Nations including the Kanien’kehá:ka of the Haudenosaunee Confederacy, Huron/Wendat, Abenaki, and Anishinaabeg. It is our duty to establish right relations with the people on whose territories we live and work, and with the land itself. Credits PuSh Play is produced by Ben Charland and Tricia Knowles. Original music by Joseph Hirabayashi. Show Transcript 00:02 Hello and welcome to Push Play, a Push Festival podcast featuring conversations with artists who are pushing boundaries and playing with form. I'm Gabrielle Martin, Push's Director of Programming, and today's episode highlights intersectional exploration and drag-pop aesthetics. 00:18 I'm speaking with Gabrielle Darmout, artist behind Bijuria, which is being presented at the Push Festival, January 28th and 29th, 2025. In this quirky yet poignant examination of the intersections between queerness and brownness, Gabrielle Darmout engages in a self-reflexive dialogue with his drag persona, Bijuria. 00:38 This musical conversation delves into the power of song to express the hybrid, multifaceted layers that coexist with an identity, offering an insightful reflection on the fluidity of human experience. 00:51 Gabrielle Darmout is a music composer, vocalist, and interdisciplinary artist. He was awarded the 2017 Jules Léger Prize for Chamber Music, following up on his internationally acclaimed solo, Anthropologie Imaginaire. 01:05 His new production, Bijuria, merges music, drag, and theatre, and has been presented a dozen times in Canada since 2022. Here's my conversation with Gabrielle. So just before we dive into really getting to know you, I want to acknowledge that I am participating in this conversation today from the stolen ancestral and traditional territories of the Coast Salish peoples. 01:35 So the Musqueam, the Squamish, and the Tsleil-Waututh. I'm a settler here, and it's my responsibility to continue to think about what that means, my relation to decolonization and restitution, and educating myself. 01:52 And that looks differently each day. And recently, I mean, I refer to this actually quite often. in these land acknowledgments is acknowledging Yellowhead Institute because it's an incredible wealth of information and an incredible educational resource. 02:10 So I've been reading their cashback red paper and it really does a great job of framing what cashback is all about, about restitution from the perspective of stolen wealth. And framing it that it's not a charity project and it's a part of decolonization and understanding that colonization is an economic project based on land theft that requires a political system that operates through domination and violence to maintain theft and therefore enriches the settler state necessarily, 02:49 impoverishes or in enriching the settler state and necessarily impoverishes and criminalizes the colonized. And I just find it so, their writing is so clear in how they frame these things that, yeah, I learn a lot. 03:04 Gabrielle, where are you joining this call from today? Thanks for sharing that. I am talking to you from home in Montreal or Joe Chaggy. Here's land of the Kanyakahaga, who are recognized as the custodians of the land and waters. 03:21 I have Indo-Caribbean ancestry from my father's side. So a whole history of indenture and a race sort of cultural ties to the South Asian subcontinent. And my mother is a French Canadian, present of such things, so I'm half white, half brown, but are they really halves? 03:46 You can't quantize it that way, but that's been my, yeah, my art is a good way for me to actually engage with all questions related to identity and power or decolonization or reflecting on coloniality as this thing that is part of everything and that we have to mindfully engage with. 04:15 And art for me has been the channel. Thank you for sharing that. And definitely I can relate to an aspect of what you're saying, and it's just a very kind of simple way of also being half-half, half-black, half-white, if we can call it them halves, it's much more complicated and richly complicated than that or complex. 04:38 But this is something that I'm super interested about your practice is the trans-cultural perspective. And it really stands out in your work, both in the perspective you bring to the work. and in the disciplines that you engage with and the historical context for those forms that you're working with. 04:58 So as a composer, you completed studies in composition and analysis at the Conservatoire de Musique de Montréal with people I'm not familiar with, but who sound very important, and you graduated with two pre-Vécagrand distinction, the highest honor to be awarded, and you've since won numerous prestigious awards. 05:20 Your compositions have been performed around the world, and as well as studying in Western music traditions, you researched Carnatic music with four renowned masters in Chennai over several years, and you're a drag performer. 05:34 So what does it mean to be an artist at the intersection of Western and Eastern artistic practices, as well as the intersection of high and low or popular art forms? First, I just want to say how I can't see how it could be any other way, and I wouldn't want it any other way. 05:55 It's not very straightforward of a path that I've had, but I've always kind of balanced all these ingredients that we just mentioned, whether we think of it as geography or in terms of type of art form, like with quotation marks high and low or popular or sophisticated art forms. 06:21 It's always been kind of a balancing act because I did undergo kind of training in music, which is very, very directly linked with Western classical music. So we could call it like urological. Santi Bhagwadi calls it urological. 06:43 So it's Eurocentric, but it's not anymore. It's everywhere. This type of music is everywhere, but it follows rules that have been born out of arts music at a certain period of history in a certain place. 06:57 And the tough part is like, it's kind of great music in many ways, but it's hard for me to be all in and it's hard for me to do only that. Even if I look at it from an avant-garde kind of position, because I could easily say I don't like classical music from the past. 07:17 Now I'm in the present doing that. That's one way of looking at it. But I don't feel like that sphere is where I want to have both feet in. So underground arts or I guess grassroots arts or hybrid forms, formats have always interested me. 07:42 And I also don't disavow the existence of art that's linked to through capitalism or commercial art or pop culture and all that. But I, so I engage with everything and I also am critical of everything in a way. 08:03 And the only way I can exist with this is through playfulness and through question marks, just asking lots of questions about it and thinking that it's both super, super, super serious and also kind of not really at the same time and sort of not funny, but something that can be, you know, poked at for the subject of satire or exploration. 08:33 Have you always been working in all of these forms? Like, for example, have you been you know, expressing yourself in drag, as well as pursuing this formal education in classical music? Or has there been kind of a trajectory that led you from one to the other back to the other? 08:53 Or yeah, how did that work? And also with with your training in Carnatic music as well? Yeah, no, it's, it's closer to the second part of your your second hypothesis is closer to the truth in the sense that I was, I'm, I say that I kept balancing it, but the proportion that it occupies in my life, or my activities or my projects have shifted has shifted. 09:21 So when I was a student at the conservatoire, for sure, I was way more invested in that type of urological music composition, and very invested in playing that game. I think near 20s is kind of the era of seeking a validation as well. 09:39 And validation from peers and from a network or from a community was something that I, I kind of was very, you know, that it affected a lot of decisions in a lot of ways that in choices, not necessarily negatively, but sometimes I do feel like that's a big part of it's such a formative decade. 10:06 And I've spent a lot of it in that field. But at the same time, I was doing other types of projects. But I also always had in mind that I wanted to go to India and study classical Indian music Carnatic music, which is one of two systems of classical Indian music from the south of India. 10:25 And I went there after my after I graduated from conservatoire. So that's 2008 11 ish that I went there. And then drag came 10 years after that. So 2018 that I started. And I guess if I look at the broad patterns, with hindsight, I'd say that I've been gradually and mindfully distancing from the more urological contemporary or new arts performance, interdisciplinarity, and that involved drag as well. 11:16 So it's a balance, but there's also a direction to it. Now when I take on projects that I feel are more linked to contemporary music, I choose them more, I don't know, I choose them. I weigh the pros and cons way more. 11:38 And I take less and less of this for different reasons. And is that also maybe because in those projects you are, are those opportunities to come in as a composer or a musician? I'm curious about also the relationship between, is more of your work expressed these days as like self-directed projects? 12:00 And is that a priority of yours? Or do you also enjoy working as a musician on other people's compositions? So with composition and say composing in that tradition of being commissioned to write a piece for a specific ensemble, et cetera, I've done a lot of that in the 2010s and it became a less and less. 12:23 And then the pandemic just really made me go like, okay, like, let's, let's, let's consider what this is. And if I like it, I never actually really liked it. I never liked composition, the act of being alone and writing the notes, that part I've, I've never felt healthy doing that. 12:43 It's always felt very, it was hard for me to find joy, except maybe at the beginning and then near the end when you're like, this is actually going to be performed. I'm actually going to work with people. 12:55 And so that social part of it is very rewarding for me. So I've kind of I've been drawn to projects where I have more agency also in what I can engage with. And that's not necessarily a question of like permission, like people wouldn't want me to do a piece on identity. 13:21 It's not so much about that. It's for me, it's more, I can't see how the media matches the message of what I'm trying to put out there. So with the piece that I did in 2014, kind of live arts performance. 13:41 I knew that I wanted to explore power, coloniality, voice, satire, all tons of stuff I wanted to explore with that piece. And I could not do that with Wood Quintet's commission, like it makes no sense to me. 14:01 So I knew that this was a live theater slash music slash voice hybrid that I had to do and self produce. And so that's been kind of what I've been craving. It's because I still like to collaborate on things. 14:20 Because it just makes for a more balanced kind of creative cycle as well to sometimes be involved in other people's things or to perform or to not be the one organizing everything and all of that. I think that's a very healthy balance, but for sure. 14:37 all the projects that I dream up of are are usually also not very typical in their formats and need me to have a very slow time in the slow gestation period. I don't know if that's a word in English as well. 14:58 Yeah. And so these I'm curious to learn a little bit more about these forms. Like, was there a moment of kind of rupture where you just got introduced, you know, where you immerse yourself in in drag or karmatic music, or I know that you're also working in other with other forms and disciplines as well. 15:20 Or it sounds like it's kind of been more an organic process of, you know, those being the natural forms to to realize the dramaturgy necessary. But I am just curious to learn a little bit more about that integration of these different practices and what that what that was like to start working. 15:44 And maybe also it was like to start being having your work in those forms received by different public or the same public differently. Yeah, I think it's been organic, but very mindful and also a process in which I allow myself space and grace, I guess, because there's lots of overlapping things. 16:11 And if you look at it like chronologically, I'm still like I have an album of chamber music with the National Arts Center Orchestra musicians that came out last year, which kind of celebrates stuff I was doing in the 2010s. 16:26 I'm still it's, it feels like a bit of a bubble in time to go back to that. But I would I still felt proud. I still feel proud of that work. And I still want to kind of engage with it, but that also came with the question, do I want to write a new piece for orchestra? 16:44 And my gut feeling was no. But let me look backward and see what I want to do with the NAC Orchestra, and that it was to celebrate things that already existed, and that didn't take creative energies away from the stuff that I feel is me now or me in the future. 17:04 So I guess I finished my PhD last year, and my whole thesis was just kind of research creation around voice and theater music and anthropology. And my framework is one of alignment, or seeking alignment, or in my case, seeking vocal alignment, where I want my literal voice that sings and speaks and does things. 17:37 the voice that sounds and then the more conceptual voice, like what we want to say as artists or as people, and to have those kind of aligned and different projects. So you're like, huh, I'm actually using my voice to be my voice. 17:52 Anyways, it's a little confusing kind of thing, but just to kind of bring all of that together. And for me, that takes time. And it takes a bit of accepting contradiction also, because you, you can't, you can't switch. 18:08 We can't switch so fast. I think maybe some people are wired that way. But for me, I kind of need to really feel things out. And that's been so I think this, this like seeking alignment thing, this, this process has has been what led me to, to think like, oh, I did this project. 18:31 And these are the little things about it that I feel are still a bit misaligned. So how can I address that in the next one? And, oh, maybe this way, oh, maybe going more, more. So maybe less commissioned work, more self directed work, that was one step, and then maybe more Indian music influence and less of that European stuff. 18:53 That was another way of aligning. And then with the jury, it was the queer kind of like really going into more of a queer way of, of doing things and of engaging with queer culture as well. And this intersects well, because you're talking about queerness, which, you know, Visuria engages with. 19:13 And I would just love if you could talk a little bit about more about how your practice investigates queerness, and specifically with this work. Yeah, of course, Visuria is a drag persona. It's the name of the show, but also the name of my my drag personality. 19:32 She's she's a character. who's also me, and the explanation between my queerness and my brownness has been really not that it was impossible to do it before I did drag, but really accelerated that and got me the confidence to tackle my South Asian-ness with more confidence and with less of this imposter syndrome that lots of mixed people have sometimes, when in reality, because it's a feeling, because the reality is that every South Asian person, 20:13 even if they're like fully South Asian, will have huge differences in terms of cultural language, religion, background, family history, journey across the globe and all of that. So it's kind of, it's a bit self, not self-centered, but like it's. 20:37 It's... /episode/index/show/fead7325-224e-42bd-8687-9e1413d70f27/id/34722135

Ep. 50 - The Negotiation (L’Addition) 01/02/2025

Ep. 50 - The Negotiation (L’Addition) Gabrielle Martin chats with Bertrand Lesca and Nasi Voutas (Bert and Nasi) who are presenting L’Addition at the 2025 PuSh International Performing Arts Festival. L’Addition, directed by Tim Etchells, will be performed at the Alliance Française Vancouver on January 25 and 26 in association with Here & Now, and supported by the consulat général de France à Vancouver. Show Notes Gabrielle, Bert and Nasi discuss: How did you come to know each other and begin your collaboration? What were the shifts and evolution of your work over the period of creating six shows together? What does it mean to work with a political message? What does it mean to occupy space and be in this world? In your “Less Workshop”, you discuss using space for political and artistic negotiation. Do these ideas define your work? What has it meant to create work in the UK over the past 12 years of austerity? How do we prioritize simplicity when dealing with complex matters? How do we inject feelings into facts? What did it mean to work with Tim Etchells? What are the different ways to lead a creative process? What can people expect from the show or from the next work of yours? About Bert and Nasi Bert and Nasi are a contemporary performance duo that met in 2015 and have since created an entire repertoire of shows in the midst of a period of national and international austerity. Their work, in turn, is stripped back and minimalist, whilst dealing with complex ideas and emotions. Their shows lie somewhere between performance, dance and theatre but if you had to pin them down on it, they'd probably say it's theatre. Together they have performed their shows on the international stages of PuSh Festival (Canada), Festival de Otoño (Spain), Sarajevo Mess (Bosnia), Adelaide International Festival (Australia), InTeatro (Italy), Avignon Festival (France) as well as MiTsp (Brazil). In 2020, Bert and Nasi received the Forced Entertainment Award in memory of Huw Chadbourn, which celebrates the work of contemporary artists reinventing theatre and performance in new ways and for new audiences. Land Acknowledgement This conversation was recorded on the unceded, stolen and ancestral territories of the Coast Salish Peoples: the xʷməθkʷəy̓əm (Musqueam), Skwxwú7mesh (Squamish) and Səl̓ílwətaɬ (Tsleil-Waututh), colonially known as Vancouver. Bert joined the conversation from Paris, while Nasi was in Marseille. It is our duty to establish right relations with the people on whose territories we live and work, and with the land itself. Credits PuSh Play is produced by Ben Charland and Tricia Knowles. Original music by Joseph Hirabayashi. Show Transcript 00:02 Hello and welcome to Push Play, a Push Festival podcast featuring conversations with artists who are pushing boundaries and playing with form. I'm Gabrielle Martin, Push's director of programming, and today's episode highlights doing less and injecting feelings into facts. 00:17 I'm speaking with Bertrand Lesca and Nasi Voutas, performers and two of the creators of La Disson. A seemingly commonplace interaction between two men in a restaurant fractures into an absurdist kaleidoscope of shifting angles that reflect the comically nonsensical nature of life. 00:35 La Disson will be presented at the Push Festival January 25 and 26, 2025. Bert and Nasi are a contemporary performance duo that met in 2015 and have since created an entire repertoire of shows in the midst of a period of national and international austerity. 00:52 Their work, in turn, is stripped back and minimalist, though it deals with complex ideas and emotions. Tim Echols is the director of La Disson and is an artist and writer based in the UK, whose work shifts between performance, visual art, and fiction. 01:06 Echols has worked in a wide variety of contexts, notably as the leader of the world-renowned Sheffield-based performance group, Forest Entertainment. Here's my conversation with Bert and Nasi. I do want to just start by acknowledging that I am joining this conversation from the traditional ancestral and unceded territories of the Coast Salish peoples, the Musqueam Squamish and Tsleil-Waututh. 01:33 I'm a settler here, and part of my responsibility as a settler is to continue to educate myself on the state of reconciliation, the history of genocide and colonization, and to continue to engage in decolonization efforts. 01:54 There's always more we can do, but I really lean on the Yellowhead Institute here. which is an incredible resource of policies and reports, just tracking things like Canada's progress with regard to, for example, the truth and reconciliation calls to action. 02:12 So I'm just gonna reference one of the more recent reports, a decade of disappointment, reconciliation in the system of a crown. And again, really just kind of reflecting on the 10 years since the 94 calls to action. 02:28 And this report, I think it's really powerful. It talks about how reconciliation is not just about apologizing for past wrongs, at which Canada is quite adept. It's about ending current wrongs that are happening today and preventing future wrongs, both of which Canada fails to do, and that the legacy calls to action happen to be those with the least progress. 02:51 And these are these four calls to action that, basically provide annual funding comparison metrics between indigenous and non-indigenous populations on and off reserve populations. And the logic of these calls is to clearly identify Canada's unwillingness to adequately invest resources to support indigenous communities over whom it has exerted control for the last 160 plus years. 03:18 And I just really, this is a plug for Yellowhead and that's a report to check out. And it's just definitely frames things in such a powerful and honest way. Bert and Nasi, where are you joining the call today from? 03:34 So I'm actually in Paris because we went to see with Nasi, but Nasi is already in Marseille, but we went to see our friends, Forced Entertainment, perform in Paris, their latest show for their 40th anniversary called Signal to Noise. 03:55 I don't know if you already saw it. I haven't seen it, but I've been following. It's exciting. Yeah. Read about it. It's a great show and there's a lot of moments when you laugh, but there's also a hot moment when you kind of despair what's happening on stage as well, because it echoes brilliantly with a lot of foreign political contexts. 04:21 And yeah, it's pretty and sure it's really good. And are these, Forced Entertainment, have you been long time friends or is this really a relationship that's grown from the work on La Descien? We've known them for a while now, not 40 years. 04:41 We weren't there at the beginning. Actually, yeah, we're a bit younger, but we have been working with them since 2020 actually, because we won an award. that they gave out to people, and we were one of the people they gave an award to, and that started a kind of mentoring relationship. 05:07 They kind of fell during COVID. So it was kind of like a, yeah, kind of weird time. But also it was cool to like, we started meeting them online and kind of, they started mentoring us. We started working with Tim and Eileen, who is the company producer. 05:28 And yeah, it kind of started from there, really, like, we got to know them a bit more. And obviously beforehand, we were like big fans of their work. So it was super cool to like, chat to them about stuff, you know, stuff to do with making work. 05:47 Sorry, I'm in Marseille. And Bert, you're not usually based in Paris, are you? No, I'm also based in Marseille, same as we live five months. down from each other. Yeah, we live five minutes from each other, yeah. 05:58 Quite unusual that you're catching us at a moment when we're actually very far apart, which is not often the case, because we tour and do most of the things together, so. Push has had the pleasure of hosting you before. 06:13 Push presented Palmyra in 2019. And this is, Palmyra is an exploration of revenge, the politics of destruction, and what we consider to be barbaric, inviting people to step back from the news. It looks at what lies beneath and beyond civilization. 06:30 So since then you've created six shows. Can you talk about the evolution or shifts within your work over this period? When we came and we did Palmyra at Push, it was a really nice experience. And that show was, we loved doing that show. 06:49 But yeah, there's definitely been like, I think, yes, six shows later. I guess like with this show, with La Duchamp, I think we're kind of, we're playing with similar stuff. There's stuff that kind of relates to those two shows, but in terms of the dynamic, in terms of the kind of, sometimes the intensity of both those shows. 07:13 But I'd say that in our work, we kind of stepped back from overtly political material and using that as like a springboard into making. I think we kind of, I don't know, in the brushstrokes we started to do in making work, it became a bit like thicker and a bit like, you know, incorporating like lots of things. 07:40 Like we feel our work is still political, just like any person who like occupies a space with other people can be a political act and can be a political thing. But yeah, I suppose. like we we moved a little bit towards we started to explore different kind of ways of of occupying a space and making and making work. 08:07 That's fascinating to me and is that like that was just about needing more kind of uh points of reference or needing different research trajectories or you know wanting to move away from you know how sometimes work with a political message can be didactic or I'm just curious to hear you speak more about that shift and what like inspired that. 08:32 Yeah I think I think also like Palmyra like resonated very strongly so for us it was really a show about Palmyra and Syria and what was going on in the Middle East but actually a lot of because of its open-ended nature uh in the sense that we never spoke about you know We never said these words on stage, so it was all to do with actions and how people were kind of perceiving what we were doing to each other on stage and stuff. 09:00 People kind of projected a lot of meaning onto the show. And Amira, for example, we we ended up presenting in loads of different contexts in different festivals and different countries. And in the case of Canada, for example, it really kind of spoke about the indigenous indigenous experience. 09:19 And in Brazil, the same. And in Northern Ireland, it was also about that kind of colonized experience. So it was it kind of like started kind of like speaking louder than we'd anticipated. And I think that's that that was kind of the success of the show. 09:40 And then, like, the more we kind of like carried on, the more like, actually, like, maybe we don't have to say what the show is about. Maybe we don't need to kind of place it, even though, like, you know, the title is there and that's it. 09:54 But maybe actually just kind of putting two people on stage and and and considering other things about what those two people are doing on stage and their relationship and the nature of collaboration and working with one another and working with the audience and all of these things can kind of like lend itself to be political. 10:15 But it was more the question. It was more the kind of like, let's see where that that takes us and let's see where that takes people as well. And it kind of ended up being more of an exploration in the latest kind of like shows as well of like something that's a bit more existential as well and a bit more kind of metaphysical maybe and about what it is to kind of occupy a space with the audience. 10:39 Also, like, what is it to kind of like be in this world and think like this? I also think like in a very blunt sort of way, those first three shows, we made Eurohouse, Palmyra and one they were like intense we did like some pretty weird nasty shit to each other in those shows and then we toured them a lot and then but kind of like in a very simple way i think when we came to make the end which was like a dance movement piece that we made we kind of wanted to make something a bit like together and kind of really being together in exploring something a bit more metaphysical and also a bit more personal so that really contributed in terms of like moving away from these kind of like kind of very like head-to-head this conflict vibe that we kind of we still like kind of love but we kind of like just kind of stepped back a little bit from that from that vibe for a few years but this show I think we're very much back in that vibe and so it's and we're happy to be to be there as well. 11:58 I have a question about a workshop that you offer so and we're hoping that we'll be able to host it here while you're in Vancouver and the workshop's titled Less Workshop in which you explore ideas around disagreement, frustration, hatred and reconciliation, particularly as these to contemporary society and using the stage as a space for artistic and political negotiation. 12:23 And so we've already been speaking about this to some extent but my question tied to that was would you say that these ideas define your work and can you speak more to artistic and political negotiation? 12:36 I think it was a workshop that we started developing when we were making these kind of first of all it took us quite a lot of time to try and articulate those ideas in a space with the students and with other people so we still feel quite attached to these ideas and also we feel like actually we've got something to kind of offer in that sense that actually seeing how we can kind of portray the political just with kind of people and in relation to an audience this is something that we feel we can do. 13:16 In the later part of what we do it's a little bit more tricky because a lot of it rests on on us and our collaboration and us both and it's a bit more personal so this is something that in a way like we feel a little bit less inclined to kind of go down because it's like well this is kind of this is the road we're on as as makers and as collaborators but probably that those students that will be with us in the space will have a very different way of making work and will have a very different kind of road for their for their own work and their own collaboration. 13:51 So that's why we're kind of at the moment we're still sticking to this because we feel at least that that is something that Probably people can use and and and can understand Something maybe that's kind of like relatively new or something that they can use to create Yeah political work with a bit of with a bit of distance maybe there's from the beginning we've always had I Mean we don't have much set in our shows historically and Normally, 14:25 it's just like very much just two of us in a space Maybe with a laptop maybe with a table or some chairs and We just explore stuff through that. So I guess those were like the founding principles that we Started making work with kind of through necessity because in the UK for the past like 12 years I uh we had uh you know the Tory government uh arts funding was cut like which is so common nowadays like seems all across the world um and so we kind of found this form um sort of out of necessity and then and then kind of fell in love with this form like and and and actually enjoyed it and and kind of we were very passionate about about really bringing something into a room with not much means and like really creating an experience with an audience in a room yeah that's kind of carried on being a real like principle that we have when we think about work and when we think about what it means to perform live work to an audience um it's really great to hear examples of of what defines your work the aesthetics the form uh and also your practice you've shared that your practice revolves around questions such as how do we prioritize simplicity when talking about very complex matters and how do you inject feeling into facts and also how can we do less which you've spoken to but with regard to the first two can you can you offer us some more similar examples as to how you're answering or how you have answered these questions we just like the the the surprise that when you really prioritize simplicity in a space and you just focus on like like you being like the audience being in a room with you when you when you make and when you perform sometimes it unlocks something that is that is more impressive than if you kind of bring some sort of like high budget thing into into it or you kind of have this big image like the simplicity of just like this this moment that you're sharing with in a space with some people that's the thing that really like we we like that's the thing that gets us going sort of you know and that's no shade i'm like these big budget productions, 16:52 but we like that simplicity, we like that. Hopefully everybody can see La Decine because La Decine is an answer to that question as well. It's just like how riveting a work can be with such simple substance in terms of like, you know, text, set, all of these things. 17:20 And how the intensity that's created and also the references to, you know, bigger themes of, you know, the directionlessness of our modern world. Or there's many things that you can also like apply and relate to within it and read into it. 17:38 And it's, yeah, it's a great example of that extremely minimal form, yeah. But some people listening will not have seen the work. or they'll listen to this after having seen the work. So it's great to hear from you a little bit more. 17:52 I'm just thinking, I'm just going back to the how do you inject feeling into facts? And I imagine that when you're even working with more political work in the past, that bringing it to the personal or finding that emotional language on stage is key to make it relatable. 18:09 That's what I read into that question. Is that kind of some point? It really started also for us, again, from that very first show that we started developing together in Greece, which was about what was going on there and the whole austerity going on in there and the feelings that we could sense when we were there. 18:38 And we started opening the room to people who were following the process and initially it was kind of like we were using information about the debt and about what's going on with the European Union and stuff like this. 18:53 And it felt very actually quite cold. And it felt like also kind of basically saying what a lot of people knew or didn't know, but actually like it was like this kind of overload of information that didn't really create feelings. 19:10 And then we shifted and then we kind of like, we've got this, but we also have another version which was kind of without words, where basically we were playing games and I was humiliating Nasi on stage and asking him to do things that was very uncomfortable to see and to witness in a room. 19:32 And that was it, that was just like two kids basically just bullying each other on stage with the complicity of the audience watching it and having to kind of take part somehow. And that for them, the reaction. 19:48 reaction was like a very, very stark reaction compared to the... /episode/index/show/fead7325-224e-42bd-8687-9e1413d70f27/id/34633995

Ep. 49 - The One to One Affair (Marie Chouinard) 12/30/2024

Ep. 49 - The One to One Affair (Marie Chouinard) Gabrielle Martin chats with the legendary Marie Chouinard. Marie’s Prelude to the Afternoon of a Faun and Rite of Spring will be presented at the PuSh International Performing Arts Festival on February 3 at the Chilliwack Cultural Centre. Show Notes Gabrielle and Marie discuss: Can you describe the evolution of your artistic inquiry, especially since you started professional practice in 1978 and founded your own company in 1990? Are you still called to the solo form? How is your work connected to something more profound or spiritual? How has the impact of your work changed as the sociopolitical context has shifted over time? What are the challenges of arts leadership and how have they changed over the years? What are you currently researching? About Marie Chouinard Marie Chouinard was born in Quebec. At the age of 16, her life was transformed after spending 4 months alone in Percé. As a choreographer, she traveled the world over as soloist for 12 years before founding the COMPAGNIE MARIE CHOUINARD in 1990. Her works, radical and profound, with a unique signature are nonetheless enduring and appear in the repertoires of major international ballet companies. Marie Chouinard is a director (films, applications, virtual reality works), an author (Zéro Douze, Chantiers des extases), a visual artist (photographs, drawings, installations), and she also creates choreographies for site-specific installations, for the screen, and in real-time for the web. Named Officière des Arts et des Lettre in France, recipient of a Bessie Award in New York, she has received some thirty of the most prestigious awards and honors. She founded the Prix de la Danse de Montréal in 2011 and was director of dance at the Venice Biennale from 2017 to 2020. Marie Chouinard is preparing a solo exhibition. Land Acknowledgement This conversation was recorded on the unceded, stolen and ancestral territories of the Coast Salish Peoples: the xʷməθkʷəy̓əm (Musqueam), Skwxwú7mesh (Squamish) and Səl̓ílwətaɬ (Tsleil-Waututh), colonially known as Vancouver. Marie joined the conversation from what is now known as Montreal, on the traditional territory of the Kanien’kehà:ka, a place which has long served as a site of meeting and exchange amongst many First Nations including the Kanien’kehá:ka of the Haudenosaunee Confederacy, Huron/Wendat, Abenaki, and Anishinaabeg. It is our duty to establish right relations with the people on whose territories we live and work, and with the land itself. Credits PuSh Play is produced by Ben Charland and Tricia Knowles. Original music by Joseph Hirabayashi. Show Transcript 00:02 Hello and welcome to Push Play, a Push Festival podcast featuring conversations with artists who are pushing boundaries and playing with form. I'm Gabrielle Martin, Push's Director of Programming, and today's episode highlights play as a well source of energy. 00:16 I'm speaking with Mary Schwinard, choreographer of Prelude to the Afternoon of a Faun and The Rite of Spring, which are being presented at the Push Festival February 3rd, 2025. Mary Schwinard presents two unorthodox performances inspired by Ballet Roos masterpieces and reimagined into viscerally provocative experiences. 00:38 Prelude to the Afternoon of a Faun interprets the lustful flirtations of a half goat creature with raw primal physicality, and The Rite of Spring captures the explosive energy of creation in a vivid celebration of dance as it bursts into modernity. 00:54 Mary Schwinard, a Quebec choreographer with a unique career path founded company Mary Schwinard in 1990 after an internationally acclaimed solo career. Her multidisciplinary works integrating dance, visual arts, and technology have earned her many prestigious awards and a prominent place in the world of contemporary dance. 01:14 Here's my conversation with Marie. You have been an iconic figure that I've been aware of and admired for a very long time, so it's just a real treat to be able to actually talk to you and get to hear more about you, these works that will be presented at the Push Festival and the Chilliwack Cultural Centre and to hear more about your wider practice. 01:38 So just before we dive into the conversation, I would just like to acknowledge that this conversation is happening. I am here on the traditional ancestral and stolen territories of the Squamish, Musqueam, and Tsleil-Waututh peoples. 01:55 And as a settler here, I continue to think about what it means to be on the these lands, and what it means to bring a land based approach into different fields of work. And so today I just wanted to share reflections upon reading work by Dr. 02:13 Lindsay Lachance, Lachance, who is a award winning dramaturge, and holds a Canada Research Chair position in land based and relational dramaturgies. And so I'll just share a little bit from her article, which is tiny sparks everywhere, birch bark biting as land based dramaturgies, which has been published by the Canadian Theatre Review, and translated to French and published in Le Curieu Manual de Dramaturgies pour la dans le tiâtre et autre mâtérieure de bonjour. 02:43 And she speaks to the Algonquin Anishinaabe practice of birch bark biting as a basis for her dramaturgical principles of intention, superposition, holding, profound listening, and resurfacing emergence. 02:59 and brings into question how our capacity to engage with intangible realities is possible without this attentive presence. So that attentive presence being a key practice of land-based dramaturgies that distinguishes it from other approaches. 03:15 And I think that it's so interesting to have the opportunity to hear these kind of concrete examples of what land-based approaches mean. And, you know, specifically it's relevant today as we talk about dramaturgy artistic process. 03:29 So I encourage you to check out Dr. Lindsay Lachance's work. Today we're going to jump right into getting a sense of your practice, your parkour. Marie, can you walk us through the evolution of your artistic inquiry since the founding of your company, which in 1990, you founded it in 1990, and you'd already been creating dance as a soloist for 12 years before that. 03:57 And what were you interested in doing on stage in 1990, compared to now? Actually, the history of my practice, like you said, starts in 1978. And it has always been a relationship with art as somehow a sacred practice that is putting us in contact with what is beyond, beyond our history, even beyond our society, beyond, really beyond. 04:37 And that's why it took me so many years before I could consider working with a group of people, because somehow in my way of approaching dance, it was a one-to-one affair, like with the woman divinity, if you want, whatever, but just a one-to-one one affair. 04:59 It's like me in front of life, me in front of cosmos, me in front of my ancestors that are even before human beings. I really feel that there is a link with even the material world which is imbued with the spirit even before life appeared on this planet. 05:21 So I was so much into this practice and then of course that work was going to be brought in front of people, bring in front of people. And of course I'm also creating for, of course, people. But the basis is this link with what is beyond and then bringing this as a celebration or something and offering to my brothers and sisters to share. 05:52 And then it took me years before I was in front of this. impossibility of creating a new work because I was seeing, because I was the only interpret of my work, I was a soloist performer, I needed to be two or three simultaneously in the space. 06:12 And then so I then I was like, wow, then pushing that idea besides and trying again to come back to create a solo. And it was really persistent for weeks that I could not start a creation because I needed to be more than one in the space. 06:29 So this is where I started to have a company in 1990. And I had to really fight against myself because I thought, oh, if I work with people that will be less sacred somehow, that was in my spirit at that time, you know. 06:46 And so I had to fight. So it took another few weeks to have this combat with my, this fight with my own perception of things. So then finally, I surrendered to the idea of actually then I discovered it has to be to share even in the process of creation, because for me, the process of creation was really so sacred and lonely. 07:12 And then I realized, well, it will be a shared process. So then in 1990, I started the creating with a group of seven people. And I chose the number seven, because it's really, you know, the brain of the human being is made so that when there is a group of seven, the brain says it's a group. 07:36 If you are six, the brain will say, oh, it's two, three euros, or three duets. The brain is made like that. But from seven, the brain says, okay, it's a bunch, it's a group, it's seven. So that's how I chose the number seven. 07:50 And then I started creating, and then it was really a work of transmission, transmission in the way of breathing, transmission in the way of standing, transmission of how can you feel the radiation from your cellular organism and all those things. 08:06 So it was really the first month was really I was not even somehow creating. I was more transmitting knowledge, information, intuition. And from there, interestingly, from this transmission, I could see how their body were reacting to my demands. 08:24 And then I could see the beginning of the new work there in their bodies at that moment. So it's a long story I made to answer you. That's great. And I wanted that was great because you're speaking a lot about solo form and the ensemble work and your relationship to that. 08:44 And the solo form, as you mentioned, it's been very central to your early work. You have a collection of solo repertoire created between 1978. in 1998 that still tours internationally, performed by dancers in your company. 08:58 And, you know, since then, a lot of your work has been ensemble, but do you still have ideas that call you to explore the solo form? Yes, yes, I've created a few solo forms since 1990 and also duets, yeah, but also many solo. 09:18 The last one I created for myself was a few years ago, I think it's five years ago. It's a solo, a three hour long solo. Last time I performed, it was in Japan. And this is a solo where I have interaction. 09:32 It's not on a stage, it was in a museum. It's a solo where I have interaction, intimate interaction with some member of the audience that will come to me and we will share a little very short talking, like 40 seconds, one minute, where they will transmit to me their innermost desire, appeal, or what they feel is next in their life and what they feel they will need some help for this next step to happen. 10:01 And then I create on the spot, I create a dance for them, but for all the audience that is around us and encircle around us. And the audience had no idea what that person told me, but it's very interesting how they get totally engaged, you know, into this dance. 10:19 It makes sense even for them somehow, but very much for the person or so who gave me a secret somehow. And so I went like that for three hours, going from one person to another one. So that's the last solo I created. 10:36 And what I like to do is also the time after I've created a solo for myself, I transmit it later to the dancers of my company. So for example, now I'm in the process of creating a new solo, and once it will be created. 10:53 but I'm not ready yet to perform it at all, what we see. And eventually it will be transmitted to the dancers in the company. Thanks for sharing that. It sounds like also this three hour durational solo that you created. 11:07 It's a solo and in a lot of ways a group work as well, because you're creating with so many members of the audience throughout these three hours. Yeah, I'm creating for them. I'm creating as a demand from them to help their process somehow. 11:26 Yeah, I'm creating right there in front of all those people. Yeah, yeah, exactly, yeah. Yeah, it really is clear how much that both the performance element and creative process is really linked towards connecting to something a little bit. 11:47 more profound and spiritual, is that's what I'm hearing when I hear you speak. Well, it's connected to someone specific in their demand. I must say that when they are talking to me, I'm also, we are very close, but somehow I'm scanning their energy and their bodies. 12:04 So I will answer not only their verbal demand, but also what I feel from the demand of their bodies and their way of holding themselves in the space and things like that. So it's multi-layered. And I want to talk about Prelude to the Afternoon of Afon and Right of Spring, which are the works I've presented here at Push 2025. 12:31 And these are works that you premiered in 1994 and 1993, respectively, and that still tour the world today, which is a remarkable longevity and relevance. And how has the impact of the work changed as the socio-aesthetic or political context have over the years? 12:51 Or if so, how? And if not, also, I'm curious about that. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It makes me smile at question because actually the first version of the music on Debussy. And it's only many years later after an orchestra in Taiwan asked me to go and play with their orchestra on Right of Spring. 13:22 And they said, don't you have another piece? Because only one piece is not much for an orchestra. And I said, yes, but you know, I have an afternoon of a phone, but I never did it on the music of Debussy. 13:36 And they said, well, let's do it. I said, OK, great. So it's true that the version with the music of Debussy was premier. And I guess it's 1994 in Taiwan. But the original choreography without that music was in, I'm not sure of the date, 1988, I think. 13:55 So yes, so now it makes me smile today because in those days, you know, we're not so much speaking about French and everything, you know, but for me it was very important that it needed a woman for me to be dancing the afternoon of a fawn and the fawn, you have to remember that the fawn is this very, very erotic and very strongly physical young animal god male being alone in the nature and just feeling the appeal of the nymphias, 14:34 the woman. And for me it was obvious that I should dance that. And it was just like something that... I don't know, that is beyond you, beyond your own decision, you know. And actually, I realized that since then, when when each time I have transmitted that solo, I have to say that I was wearing horns, you know, like the phone, he has horns, and I was at one point breaking one horn from my head and putting it on my pubic bone as a phallus. 15:06 So this is still what we are doing. But I noticed that since then, each time I have transmitted that solo to a woman of the company, it is transforming them. There is something, it's like an initiation somehow, you know. 15:23 So yeah, and once, but you know, in 1988, we were not so much talking about gender, and well, a bit, you know, but not like today, you know, today is like the subject and with many other subject ecology, everything. 15:39 Native people, everything. So, but yeah, so this, but this piece is still of today. And I must say that I'm somehow, I must say that there is something of which I am, how could I say, happy with about my work is that it seems that it does not, it does not fall into out of, you know, it's relevant. 16:08 It's always actual somehow, even a piece I created in, you know, so many years ago, 50 years ago or something, is still of today somehow. So that, that's really a joy for me to realize that yes, I tell myself, yes, my dear, you are really creating outside of society and everything you are really creating from your relationship with what is beyond, because it's, it's traveling through time. 16:34 So I guess this is a sign. Well, now I'm just, you know, maybe because I'm 69, I can dare say things like that, you know. Yeah, I think you can. And you're one of the very few Canadian contemporary dance companies, choreographers. 16:51 Well, your company has been established for, you know, as you mentioned, since 1990, with, you know, currently full-time company members and your own studios. So beyond a choreographer, you've been a long time major arts leader in the country. 17:07 And I'm curious how the challenges of arts leadership have changed for you over the past 35 years. You know, have they changed? If so, how? If not, what stays the same? I don't really, you know, for me, it's a continuum somehow. 17:26 I feel I feel my life and my creation really as a continuum. I feel somehow that I'm, you know, the voice of myself in my mind when I think is the voice of myself when I was seven years old, you know, six years old, I don't know. 17:40 So I really feel it's... It's more, this life is more about the continuum. This is primarily the continuum. And I feel the same in creation. One creation is just being born somehow from the previous one and from the actual moment of the now where I feel, okay, now what is my next steps? 18:05 So it's always related to the now, but in a continuity without me wanting it, it's continuity of course of what was before me in myself or whatever. So I feel more, so for me, the challenge has always been the same. 18:24 The challenge has always been how to create something that is totally linked with a very deeply anchored urge to put something into the world. It's always that, and that story has not changed. And it is always finding the best, the most accurate or the most precise or the most organic at the same time, way to incarnate this intuition. 19:02 So it's always that. So, and I don't feel so much that there has been big moments or changes. Someone could say, oh, going from solo world to group work. Yes, maybe, but not so much. It's a total continuity somehow. 19:24 I think you were asking also the challenge as our director or as general manager of my company. It's always the same, the challenge you have to deal with your budget that are never enough somehow. And you have to be extremely creative, not only in your work. 19:43 but in your way of using the money that you have, very creative, very, very creative. So it's creation, it's happening not only in the art, but also in the managing of everything. You have to find solutions, find solutions all the time. 20:05 Like a problem is an occasion for a new solution, for a new exploration, you know? So sometimes when people in my company, sometimes they have a problem and they call me or they come to see me and say, yeah, give me, give me, give me your problem. 20:21 I love it. Because I like to be in this situation where I have to create instantaneously a solution. But I must say that some of the times, wow, it's a, wow. Yeah, I have to think for myself, I have to think two or three days to find a solution, you know? 20:42 But it's always a challenge to create. And it's always mostly a joy. For me, it's a game. Directing a company and creating works is a game. It's... /episode/index/show/fead7325-224e-42bd-8687-9e1413d70f27/id/34557540

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