Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy

This podcast features David D. Burns MD, author of "Feeling Good, The New Mood Therapy," describing powerful new techniques to overcome depression and anxiety and develop greater joy and self-esteem. For therapists and the general public alike!

481: Ask David: Memory Rescripting; Why Can't I Lose Weight? Demons! 12/22/2025

481: Ask David: Memory Rescripting; Why Can't I Lose Weight? Demons! Past Projection vs. Memory Rescripting Why Can't I Lose Weight? Do Demons Cause Negative Thoughts! Featuring Our Beloved Dr. Matthew May The answers to today’s questions are brief and were written prior to the show. Listen to the podcast for a more in-depth discussion of each question. Here are the questions for today’s podcast. Rhonda asks: What’s the difference between Past Projection and Memory Rescripting? Slash asks: How do I overcome my resistance to losing weight? Constantina asks: Do negative thoughts come from demons? And here are the answers! Rhonda asks: What’s the difference between Past Projection and Memory Rescripting? I would love to learn more about Memory Rescripting, since I really don't see much difference between that and Past Projection, but maybe I am just dense. So if we could talk about that on the next Ask David, that would be great. Thanks, Rhonda David’s reply I use the term, Time Travel, and you can project yourself into the future or the past, hence Future or Past Projection. If you want a patient to travel into the past, there are a great many things you can do that might be helpful. You can do “Forgiveness Training,” developed by Jaimie Galindo. Essentially, the patient talks to someone, like a parent, who abused them in some way, telling the parent how hurt they felt, and how they needed the parent’s love. Or you can do Cognitive Flooding, simply “watching” some traumatic event to experience the anxiety until it wears out and loses its power to upset you. And there are many more techniques you can use to explore past experiences with a patient. Memory Rescripting is like Cognitive Flooding—you have the patient close their eyes and vividly re-experience something traumatic, like the babysitter abusing them. Then, at the height of the feelings of anxiety, anger, and helplessness, you can tell the patient that they can be like a movie director, and change the scene so there is a different outcome. For example, the patient may want to enter the scene as a powerful adult and punish the perpetrator. This is not some standard procedure, as every patient will be completely different. Often, they will want to do something violent to the perpetrator, so this procedure can be anxiety provoking for the therapist! I have only used it on a couple occasions, but had good results with it both times. I am not a strong believer that patients “must” go into the past to “work through” a prior traumatic experience, so I don’t have that much need for it. But it is a good technique to have in your toolbox. Slash asks: How do I overcome my resistance to losing weight? Dear Dr. Burns, I recently listened to your podcast episode on Habits and Addictions, and it really resonated with me. I’ve been going to the gym regularly, but I’m struggling with my eating habits — I tend to eat too much, and my weight hasn’t been decreasing. What I’ve realized is that I may be experiencing what you describe as outcome resistance. A part of me feels that if I lose weight and become thin and attractive, I might still not take action in areas like dating — so then I ask myself, “Why should I even bother with weight reduction?” I’m finding it difficult to overcome this resistance, even though I want to be healthier. Could you please share some guidance or strategies to work through this kind of resistance? Thank you for all the wonderful work you do. Your podcasts have been truly insightful and helpful. Warm regards, Slash David’s reply Thanks, and we will discuss this important question on the podcast. However, in the meantime, if you can search for Triple Paradox you may find your answer. Also, you can download two free unpublished changers on habits and addictions from any page on feeling good.com, and use the Decision -Making, Tool. That, too, will give you the answer! Warmly, david Constantina asks: Do negative thoughts come from demons? David and Rhonda, Hello. I am doing some research into "spiritual" causes of depression. I realize that you are both scientists (and BRILLIANT ones), but if you have any sources I could review, I would appreciate suggestions. It might also make for an interesting Halloween season podcast. Do "demons" cause automatic negative thoughts. And if not demons, what actually causes them? Please don't dismiss this as "crazy". I am a very religious person and at times I have sincerely asked the question...are depression and anxiety ...at least in part, spiritual maladies. I have found tremendous help in Feeling Good, but also in prayer and religious practices. I want to research what has been done in terms of crossover studies/experiments (if any). Marianne David’s reply Thank you. The spiritual underpinnings are not so much something to be researched, but can add a deeper dimension of meaning and understanding to the healing. Current thinking is that Self-Defeating Beliefs, not demons, trigger the negative thoughts. I have written about all of this extensively, so I won’t try to say it all again here. But we can exchange some ideas on the podcast. Thanks! d Thanks for listening today! Matt, Rhonda, and David /episode/index/show/feelinggood/id/38976540

480: Ask David: Helping Someone Who's Suicidal; Worrying about My Daughter's Anxiety; Disarming Yourself 12/15/2025

480: Ask David: Helping Someone Who's Suicidal; Worrying about My Daughter's Anxiety; Disarming Yourself Am I Helping People Who Are Suicidal? Should I Worry about My Daughter's Anxiety? Disarming Yourself The answers to today’s questions are brief and were written prior to the show. Listen to the podcast for a more in-depth discussion of each question. Here are the questions for today’s podcast. George asks: Would my approach help someone who is suicidal? No Name asks: Do I need to worry about my daughter’s anxiety? Jeffrey asks: Can you disarm yourself? George asks: Would my approach help someone who is suicidal? Dear David, Please tell me if this is too close to medical or other protected advice, but I had a question about something I tell people who are sometimes struggling with suicidal ideation. Throughout my life, I have had the thought "I don't want to be alive anymore" more times than I can count. But what I have come to realize over time is that this is just something my brain says when I'm upset; it doesn't really mean anything other than that. It's just a reaction to being very upset and that reframing helps me feel better about it, knowing that it's not a conviction but rather just how my brain expresses negative distress. Multiple people have found this helpful, but I wonder if telling certain people this would be dismissive/triggering/etc. In a dangerous way? Do you think I should stop sharing this experience? George David’s reply: Hi George, Thanks for asking. I will make this an Ask David question, if okay with you, using your first name or some other name if you prefer. Short answer: to me, this is like giving advice, to my way of thinking, and I have spent the last 40 – 50 years indicating that this is NOT an approach that’s ever worked for me. Can say more on the podcast. Thanks! Warmly, david No Name asks: Do I need to worry about my daughter’s anxiety? Dear Dr. Burns, I am not very skilled at expressing how much you, Rhonda, the others and your work mean to me. So, I will just ask a question. My daughter, who has a lot of anxiety issues told me that when she has a problem, she will purposely stew over it when trying to fall asleep so that she will wake up with an answer to the problem the next morning. I cringed. Is there any way that this is a safe or helpful paradoxical technique? No name David’s reply Thanks, I’ll copy Rhonda. We are both grateful for your loving comments! Rhonda, we can make this an ask David if you like for a podcast. But short answer, at least, in my opinion, is that this is a cool way to use your brain. It is a skill. For example, I often get confused by a difficult statistics problem when analyzing data, and go to sleep confused. Nearly all the time, my brain wakes me up in the middle of the night with a brilliant answer. So, if she perceived is in a positive way, and isn’t disturbed, you could try nourishing it, as opposed to worrying about it! We’ll see what Rhonda thinks. Rhonda, I’ll add this great brief question to our list for Tuesday. I am reluctant to postpone the Ask David as when we’ve done this in the past, we’ve ended up never answer at least 20 to 30 questions which are now too old to put on a podcast. Those who asked may no longer even be alive it’s been so long! Warmly, david Rhonda’s reply Thank you for this lovely feedback. It really means a lot to us. Your daughter is going through something so many of us experience. I am excited we can respond to your question on an Ask David podcast. Warmly, Rhonda Jeffrey asks: Can you disarm yourself? Subject: Question about using disarming technique on oneself, and also it being used against you. Endless gratitude to all of you for the pipeline of clarity and hope. I was wondering if one can use disarming on oneself. Much of the focus in feeling good seems focused on looking for and challenging our distortions, which seems the opposite of disarming. Maybe the reversal of agendas emphasized in feeling great is essentially putting the disarming back into the process in regards to ourselves. I would like to hear your thoughts on this. On a side note, if one is in a legal contention or divorce, I could see how disarming could be effective and pacifying, yet what if those admissions could be used against you. David’s reply I would like to include this in an Ask David podcast, with our first name or a fake name. Please advise if okay. Short answer: the ideas and tools to treat individual mood problems, like depression, are the complete opposite of the ideas and tools to treat relationship problems. This is like matter and anti-matter. However, the Disarming Technique and the Acceptance Paradox connect these two opposed and radically different worlds. So, in a sense, you are right. The Acceptance Paradox is a lot like disarming yourself! Best, david Jeffry's reply to david Thank you for the succinct response, and I look forward to hearing it fleshed out in the podcast. I would be honored for you to mention my name: Jeffrey - from the outskirts of Jerusalem in Israel And thank you to the whole team for keeping the best things in life for free (although I do hope everyone receives the funds they need). Yet I feel converse maxim - "there's no free lunch" remains standing, And that is, because, as you state over and over - anybody serious in improvement must pay the price; whether in completing the daily logs, or Burns assessment quizzes, or facing your fears, challenging your assumptions or fine-tuning one's communication skills, one interaction at a time. The danger of apps, and screens in general, are the inherent passivity and superficiality they engender, so I am looking forward to seeing how this app overcomes that. Lastly, you had sought feedback as to audience preferences for podcasts: I think by now I and most regular listeners are clear in the general approaches of Team CBT, and how it differs from other schools and their adherents, so now I benefit most from the role playing to crystallize and internalize its application. I would also be willing to forego multiple scenarios in each session in order to spend more time reiterating and clarifying individual scenarios - assuming that David, Rhonda, Matt, etc, have the willingness to keep going. Keep on keeping us learning and laughing. Jeffrey David’s reply Thanks for the kindly and thoughtful note. We’ll certainly try, but as you say, there’s no free lunch and no guarantees! We are sometimes just hanging on! I like your recommendation for podcasts: more role playing I think to bring techniques and ideas to life. Warmly, david Thanks, for listening! David and Rhonda /episode/index/show/feelinggood/id/38976415

479: Ask David: Why do I obsess? Why do I have to be perfect? How can I share my feelings effectively? 12/08/2025

479: Ask David: Why do I obsess? Why do I have to be perfect? How can I share my feelings effectively? Ask David Why do I obsess? Why do I have to be perfect? How can I share my feelings without oversharing? The answers to today’s questions are brief and were written prior to the show. Listen to the podcast for a more in-depth discussion of each question. Here are the questions for today’s podcast. Zhang asks: I have intrusive daydreams and obsess about getting things perfect? What’s causing this? And what can I do? Yevhen asks: How can I use “I Feel” Statements without oversharing? But first, we start today’s podcast with a comment from Susan, one of our podcast fans. She extends our discussion of whether friendship is more of a human “need” or a human “want.” She describes her work with Dr. Daniel Herman, a Level 4 certified TEAM CBT therapist. Hi Rhonda, Matt, and David, First, I wanted to say I am so glad sweet Rhonda is feeling better. This is wonderful news! I have been a fan of Dr. Burns books for 10+ years and of the podcast for 3 years. I just finished listening to podcast #469 on friendship and felt compelled to share my story as it relates to Team CBT. Three years ago, my 23 year-old son entered a 90 day inpatient rehabilitation center for a marijuana addiction followed by 1 1/2 years in a sober living facility. Six months into his recovery, I reached out to Dr. Daniel Hermann, a Team CBT level 4 therapist. At that time, my son’s progress had been steady yet I was still suffering greatly. One of many thoughts that contributed to my suffering was that my friends couldn’t understand what I was going through. Although I have been fortunate to have had many wonderful friendships for 30+ years, Although I was open with my friends about my struggles, I generally didn’t feel they understood what I was going through and I felt isolated. Fortunately, Dr. Herman did not try to convince me that I “needed” these friendships or to be understood to “get through” this difficult time. Instead, he helped me to look at the situation realistically, without distortions. My positive reframe regarding my friends was “I wish I could have felt closer to my friends during this difficult time. However, there are many ways in which I have supported myself and I have found other outside sources of comfort also.” I made a very detailed list of the myriad of ways I had supported myself which brought me great comfort and empowerment. I was able to accept that I wasn’t feeling as close to my friends as I would have liked, without blaming them or myself. I also let go of my belief that my friends “should” have been able to empathize better with what I was going through. I learned that although I truly value these friendships, if I expect them to mean everything to me in every situation, I will be setting myself up for a lot of suffering. I am so happy that sweet Rhonda had those strong friendships to help her during such a dark time. She is very fortunate! Since Rhonda had a change of heart during the podcast, the following comments are based on her beliefs at the beginning of the podcast: that the support of her friends is a need and that she could not have “gotten through” her treatments without it. Did Rhonda mean that she would have not sought cancer treatment, the treatments would have been ineffective, or that she would have ended her life without the support of her friends? Would she have told a client of hers in a similar situation that she needed to focus all her time and effort on developing meaningful friendships rather than treating her cancer because friendship was the true need? Obviously, I don’t believe she would have and am glad that she had a change of heart regarding this belief. Thank you all for your wonderful podcasts! Susan The point I was trying to make is that Dr. Hermann himself did not appear to believe in these self-defeating beliefs, contrary to public opinion. This was essential to me coming to the same conclusions. (To be clear, he NEVER told me what to believe lol. I was paying him but I did all the work! Frustrating at times but coming to my own conclusions was the only way to internalize these messages.) Zhang asks: I have intrusive daydreams and obsess about getting things perfect? What’s causing this? And what can I do? Dear Dr. Burns, Thank you so much for your kind and prompt reply. I truly appreciate you taking the time to direct me to the additional resources on your website—I have found them and am already finding them very helpful. Please accept my sincere apologies for the delay in responding. The beginning of the new semester has kept me quite occupied, and I have only now found a moment to write to you properly. I am writing to you again because I have been struggling with some persistent challenges and was hoping I might ask for your guidance. Lately, I often find myself distracted by vivid, intrusive daydreams—I create elaborate imaginary stories or visualize worst-case scenarios, such as natural disasters. In addition, I have developed what feels like an obsessive need to keep my books in perfect condition. Even minor wear causes me significant anxiety, and I find it difficult to stop thinking about it if I cannot repair the damage. These thoughts and behaviors are beginning to affect my daily life, and I was wondering if you might have any advice or suggested resources that could help me better understand and manage them. Thank you once again for your generosity and support. Your work has already made a profound difference in my life. Warm regards, Zhang David’s response Thanks, Zhang. There are many methods and ideas in When Panic Attacks, my book on anxiety. In particular, the Hidden Emotion Technique might interest you. If you are in the US, there is a class on it in the Feeling Great app, which is free until the end of September, so move fast. Also, I would like to include this as an Ask David, if that’s okay. Can use your first name, or a fake name. Best, david Yevhen asks: How can I use “I Feel” Statements without oversharing? Hello Dr. Burns, Rhonda, and Matt, I would like to express my heartfelt gratitude for the remarkable work you’re doing in the field of TEAM-CBT. Your books and your voice of reason have been an immense help to me in some of the most difficult times. Dr Burns, I always feel amazed hearing your wisdom and patience each time you explain the concepts. Even those concepts that were explained before. Additionally, thank you Dr Burns, Rhonda and Matt, for the exceptional Feeling Good podcast you host. Each new episode is a highlight of my week and nearly always offers profound insight and encouragement. On a lighter note, I sometimes play your podcast at night when I have trouble sleeping. It really helps me drift off within 20-30 minutes 😀 Rhonda, I admire your perseverance in the face of your illness. I wish you a smooth and speedy recovery. Matt, I really appreciate all the cool insights you’re sharing and contributing to this podcast. I’d love to ask you a couple of questions: 1) When I meet new people, I tend to guide the conversation by asking relevant, open-ended questions. Something similar to the “TV host persona” you described in Feeling Great. The challenge is that I rarely share much about myself. This often leads my friends or partners to say that they hardly know me or that I keep personal matters private/do not share anything with them. How can I work on sharing more about myself without oversharing? 2) I usually appear calm and some people even describe me as having a “poker face.” This sometimes leaves my partner/friends unsure how to read my reactions or feelings. Is there a way to become more comfortable showing emotions without forcing it? 3) I’m not naturally confrontational, so in difficult situations or disagreements I usually choose flight over fight. This sometimes leaves me feeling like I missed something or haven’t explained my position/point of view. Is there anything I can do to develop a healthier balance in these moments? I would be really grateful if you could answer any of these questions. Thank you again for your inspiring work! Best regards Yevhen M. David’s reply Thanks, will add this to the next Ask David list. In the meantime, we did a podcast on “I Feel” statements that you could find on my website, with many practical ideas. You said you want to practice something new and asked: :”How can I work on sharing more about myself without oversharing?” That sounds like you want to practice pitching, in baseball, and want to make sure you throw all perfect pitches. This is not possible! You WILL over or under share at times, it’s a rule of the universe. Are you willing to learn by trial and error? And what are you the most afraid of? On question #3, I never answer abstract, hypothetical questions, as you will know if you have followed my work. If you want help with this, write down one thing the other person said, (or might say), and what, exactly, you said next (or might say next.) This will provide a world of specific information that will contain the answer you’re looking for. But on a general level, as the Buddha said so many years ago, “don’t waste your time in worthless generalizations. Give me something specific and real, please!” Best, david Thanks for listening today! Rhonda, Matt, and David /episode/index/show/feelinggood/id/38922445

478: Yikes! I've Relapsed! 12/01/2025

478: Yikes! I've Relapsed! Relapse and Relapse Prevention for Overeating Featuring Dr. Angela Krumm On today’s podcast, we proudly feature an old friend, Dr. Angela Krumm, on the topic of relapse prevention for habits and addictions. This is certainly a top of incredible importance, since all treatments for all habits and addictions seem to have extremely high relapse rates. Anything we could do to reduce that would be a major contribution. Angela was on our Feeling Good Podcast #270 on Nov 29, 2021 describing some TEAM CBT methods she’d developed to deal with her own weight gain. In podcast #270 she taught listeners how to set process goals, instead of outcome focused goals. She then taught about the Triple Paradox, Habit Addiction Log, Devil’s Advocate technique, and the Problem-Solution log. In that first episode she explained that this was a difficult time in her life: her father had died, and she’d also experienced a traumatic fall which caused a concussion. So she fell off being careful about her diet, and one day was shocked that she could not recognize herself—due to weight gain--in a photo, and was on the fast track to Type II Diabetes. As a result, she utilized many of the TEAM CBT techniques and slowly, but surely, lost weight and kept it off for multiple years. She explains that she was “solid for a long time, but have to confess, with shame, that I eventually relapsed because I got over-confident. I’d been tracking what I ate, which was an important key for me, and stopped keeping up with it consistently, thinking I didn’t really need to anymore.” We reviewed the kinds of tempting thoughts she’d had (and still has, of course, at times), when she feels tempted by her favorites: things like delicious brownies, red wine, and other sweet treats. She has tempting thoughts such as: I deserve to take a break from tracking what I eat. I deserve a treat—I’ve had a hard day. It’s silly to be so rigid. I deserve to eat whatever I want. Spontaneity is one of my core values! During the podcast, we illustrated the Devil’s Advocate Technique (DAT), which is powerful and a lot of fun, but sometimes trickier than it looks. When Angela gave a “good” but not “huge” response to one of these tempting thoughts, I automatically suggested a role-reversal. Rhonda immediately and rightly reminded us that we never do role-reversals when people are stuck during the Devil’s Advocate. Instead, we paradox the person and sit with open hands. Rhonda modeled this beautifully and it worked like a charm. Angela had a sudden about face and blew the tempting thought out of the water immediately. We made three teaching points on DAT. Don’t give in to the urge to “help.” This will have the opposite effect of keeping the patient stuck. Realize that if you’re a therapist, and your patient cannot convincingly defeat all the temping thoughts in the office, the likelihood that they can defeat them when they’re at home is 0%. So, the DAT is both a powerful technique to boost motivation with tools you can use when tempted, but it is also a powerful test of motivation. Remember to Sit with Open Hands if your patients cannot convincingly defeat their tempting thoughts. Angela shared that she now realizes that the main reason for her relapse was that she had skipped relapse prevention. This is the danger of being your own therapist, sometimes you make the mistake of cutting corners or getting overly confident. She asked to return to the podcast today to talk about that important mistake and help others prevent that mistake in the future. She wants us to emphasize the important of Relapse Prevention for all habits and addictions. When Angela mentioned that she’d relapsed in her eating to a therapist who was just learning TEAM-CBT, the therapist seemed shocked and asked, “Oh, does this mean that the techniques we’re learning don’t actually work?” This is such a great (but naïve and common) question, because we always emphasize that all patients—in fact all human beings—will relapse after recovery from depression, anxiety, a relationship conflict, or a habit / addiction. That’s why it’s so important to tell patients about relapse before discharge from therapy, and do a brief but intensive relapse prevention intervention. We reviewed several of the Relapse Prevention techniques, including the Problem Solution List and the Relapse Prevention Daily Mood Log, using and recording the Externalization of Voices. When you do this step with a patient, ask them to imagine the future moment in time when they have relapsed. It’s important to capture the thoughts that will lead them to give up and quit using the techniques. Often, these are hopeless thoughts about the usefulness of the techniques or their ability to remain in recovery. If these thoughts are left unchecked, they will spiral the person into a deeper and more lengthy relapse. If they can predict the thoughts ahead of time and generate powerful rebuttals to use in that moment, then their first moment of relapse can be turned around quickly! We listed several of Angela’s predicted negative thoughts during her relapse: I should not have let this happen. 100% I’m not strong enough. 60% It’s just too hard to start tracking and logging what I eat again. 65% It will be too painful to have to track and see what I’ve eaten. 60% This isn’t fair. It should be so hard to be healthy! 70% Screw it. I should just accept this and give up! 40% Podcast listeners will judge me because I have gained weight again. 10% We practiced challenging those thoughts with the Externalization of Voices, and Rhonda summarize several of the strategies that can be the most helpful: Self-Defense The Acceptance Paradox. The Counter-Attack Technique A combination of two or three Angela summarized three important take home messages from today’s podcast. Always prepare a Relapse Daily Mood Log ahead of time, anticipating what you will be telling yourself when you relapse Challenge those thoughts with EOV and record that role-play so you can listen to it in the future when tempted. After you have lost sufficient weight, make a plan to continue your healthier eating after the acute phase. Do NOT make the common mistake of thinking, “Oh, I’ve achieved my goal of losing 30 pounds (or whatever), so now I’m done, and can go back to my normal eating habits and patterns again.” Thank you for listening today! Angela, Rhonda, and David /episode/index/show/feelinggood/id/38908905

Awesome Free Webinar: Five Secrets That Can Change Your Life! 11/26/2025

Coming Up in January: Fast Track to Level 3 TEAM CBT Certification (46 CEs!) 11/25/2025

477: David and Jill's Amazing Exposure Webinar Part 2 of 2 11/24/2025

476: David and Jill's Amazing Exposure Webinar Part 1 of 2 11/17/2025

476: David and Jill's Amazing Exposure Webinar Part 1 of 2 David and Jill's Amazing Exposure Webinar Part 1 of 2 Today, you will hear part 1 of the Webinar that Dr. Jill Levitt and I did on September 11th of the fine points of exposure techniques for anxiety disorders. More than 2,000 individuals (mainly therapists, but many general public as well) registered for this event. It was super well received, thanks in large part to Jill’s super awesome teaching skills! I feel so lucky every time we teach together. In part 1 today, you will hear about an overview of TEAM CBT, as well as the four treatment models we use with every person who is struggling with anxiety: The Motivational Model The Cognitive Model The Exposure Model The Hidden Emotion Model You will also see a dramatic example of the use of a powerful cognitive technique (the Experimental Technique) with Terri, a woman who’d struggled for ten years with extreme panic attacks and depression. You will see the exact moment of recovery, when her uncontrollable sobbing suddenly turned into uncontrollable laughter, joy, and relief. This may be the most dramatic psychotherapy example ever recorded. Although this podcast of the webinar is in audio only, you can also SEE this dramatic segment on YouTube at LINK to TERRI VIDEO Next week you will hear part 2 of that webinar, with Jill’s fantastic teaching on the fine points of exposure, including the importance of recognizing the “Safety Behaviors” that sabotage effective treatment. You will hear the dramatic story of a woman who recovered from more than 20 years of OCD / germ phobia in less than one minute while attending David’s free weekly psychotherapy seminar at Stanford. You will also learn about “Memory Rescripting,” and how it suddenly changed the life of a veteran who’d lost the capacity to feel human feelings following a traumatic experience in Vietnam 25 years earlier. Thanks for listening. Please let us know if you want future webinars presenting as podcasts. We will also publish them in their entirety on our YouTube Feeling Great channel, so the additional publication on a podcast may be overkill. Let us know! Warmly, Rhonda, Jill, and David /episode/index/show/feelinggood/id/38502480

475: Ask David: Are You Getting Old and Cranky Now? TEAM CBT and Spirituality 11/10/2025

475: Ask David: Are You Getting Old and Cranky Now? TEAM CBT and Spirituality Ask David Are You Getting Old and Cranky Now? TEAM CBT and Spirituality The answers to today’s questions are brief and were written prior to the show. Listen to the podcast for a more in-depth discussion of each question. Jenn asks: Are you getting old and cranky now? Jenn also asks: How did you get involved with / develop the spiritual and enlightenment aspect of TEAM? Dear Dr. Burns, Let me start by saying thank you for all of your hard work and diligence in creating a method which is so user friendly. Completing the book, When Panic Attacks, changed my life and helped me reach enlightenment. My Ask David question is inspired by the last few podcasts, the live session with Rhonda and the live session with Madelaine which David just did with Jill. David has clearly worked so hard to create TEAM and has dedicated so much time to perfect it. I was lucky enough to have been introduced to the podcast when it first started. Some of my favorite episodes to listen to are the live therapy sessions. I’ve gained insight and felt heard through many of these such as when David told Lee how lonely enlightenment can be because I agree with that! Recently I have noticed that David’s demeanor has changed and was hoping to ask about it. I can imagine David might feel lonely in his expertise sometimes. I might be on the wrong track here too but I wonder if David might be feeling frustrated with the lack of understanding from people around him. He has been dedicating his life to this and still people do not understand certain aspects of his research and teaching. On recent podcasts, David had mentioned that he gets more irritated with teaching now too and it has seemed like he is irritated with Rhonda at points. He has mentioned that he feels disappointed if he doesn’t see change in 2 hour sessions. Recently I watched a live session with Madelaine and some of the techniques (for example, calling her negative self sociopath during counter attack) did not seem to land or resonate with her and that wasn't addressed with David’s usual love and tenderness and warmth with empathy. It seemed rushed and not necessarily focused on the patient outcome but the timeline. I did not find it to be David’s usual work of patience and warmth. I could be completely off the rails but I am wondering if this is resonating with David and if he could share more about what it’s been like for him recently. I also am wondering if it is difficult to navigate being seen as “a great leader” in a field. Do people see you as “David” simply a dedicated expert in your field or do people treat you like a “God” that has all the answers? I can imagine people would want help from you 24/7 and if you could speak to that. I am hoping David can look at some of those thoughts and comments he’s made on the podcasts and become the client for us listeners! I would love for David to show us how to experience TEAM from the client’s perspective for all to hear. I have used TEAM-CBT for 10 years and recently started the Fast Track Program which I am very excited for! Thank you again for this truly amazing process! Jenn David’s reply Thanks, Jenn, You are right, I DO feel quite a bit of irritation with our field and can identify a bit with Martin Luther, who nailed his treatise / ideas on someone's door hundreds of years ago, and also Jesus who angrily threw the money changers out of the temple a couple thousand years ago. I know that sounds narcissistic, but that's how I feel sometimes. My frustration has several dimensions: The field, to my way of thinking, is incredibly screwed up and anti-scientific, divided into irrational cults called "schools" of therapy. Nobody seems to notice this "elephant" in our room! Hey, are you all sleeping? Did you learn critical thinking in college? When challenged by research that seriously questions the validity and effectiveness of current psychotherapies for depression and anxiety, for example, no one seems to care or notice. It seems like wrong theories die hard. People do not like being criticized and got angry when I criticize the field of psychotherapy. So, there is a kind of a "let's be politically correct" and be super "nice" to everyone, so as not to stir them up or hurt their feelings. There is a potential for massive change and improvements in psychotherapy and psychiatric treatment, but it would require a revolution and the acceptance of totally new approaches which would threaten many therapists' thinking and survival at a very basic level. Are you or others interested in my thinking? Let me know. If so, more later, maybe on a podcast or two with Jill and Matt, and of course, Rhonda. And here are the answers to some of your other questions. You say, “He has mentioned that he feels disappointed if he doesn’t see change in 2 hour sessions.” We’re not on the same page here. I nearly always see dramatic change in 2 hour sessions, and I’m dramatic that I have created a therapeutic approach that makes this possible. When I was a young man, a psychiatric resident, I use to dream about that, and wondered if it was even possible, since I almost never saw meaningful change, much less recovery and joy, in any of my patients using the methods I was talk (supportive listening and antidepressants.) You also wrote: I also am wondering if it is difficult to navigate being seen as “a great leader” in a field. Do people see you as “David” simply a dedicated expert in your field or do people treat you like a “God” that has all the answers? Cool question. I think many people see me as a dedicated expert, but I think a few, particular from some of the Asian countries, to like to see people as “gurus” or something on that level. Sometimes I may even encourage that, as I am a strong believer that therapy, at its deepest level, does become spiritual. So, questions about spirituality and enlightenment do interest me greatly, and many of the techniques I’ve created are designed to facilitate rapid improvement, in minutes, vs. years of meditation. The Externalization of Voices would be an example, and it was actually the first CBT technique I created, around or even prior to 1975. You say, Recently I watched a live session with Madelaine and some of the techniques (for example, calling her negative self sociopath during counter attack) did not seem to land or resonate with her and that wasn't addressed with David’s usual love and tenderness and warmth with empathy. It seemed rushed and not necessarily focused on the patient outcome but the timeline. You are partially correct and perhaps somewhat “off.” Where you are right is that I miscalculated the time for the webinar, and thought we had to stop at 12:30. I later figured out we had until 1 PM, and we could have spent more time on EOV. Where you’re perhaps wrong is that sometimes a confrontation can “jar” a patient into enlightenment. Few therapists use confrontation, but I have always used it, ever since my days in psychodrama as a medical student. Madeleine commented in her follow up evaluation on the things most helpful to her during the session, and that was one of them. Research has consistently proven that the observers of therapy cannot accurately assess the quality of the therapeutic alliance, as reported by the patient, or the effectiveness of what’s happening during a session. I sometimes wish therapist observers had a bit more humility about the accuracy of their observations, based on research that’s been replicated over and over! But there I am, whining again so I will stop! At any rate, Jenn, thanks for the wonderfully informative critical thinking, and great questions! Warmly, david Jenn’s response to David Hi Dr. Burns, Thank you so much for your fast response. I am really honored that you took the time to reply to me! Thank you for your honesty too and I can imagine it’s super frustrating! I do not think that sounds narcissistic, I think you are right. I find it extremely frustrating too and I am just a user and learner of TEAM. I think I “see it” sometimes since I’ve done some personal work. I’m still human with many flaws as I am sure you caught on to a few in my email. I completely agree with all of your points. I genuinely do not understand how TEAM-CBT is not the go-to. It is finally a scientific method that is proven to be effective. It truly leaves me speechless and I could ramble about TEAM for hours to be honest! I am a registered nurse and I have a difficult time seeing my patients being “thrown” anti-depressants etc. The biological theory was the go-to in mental health and about 10 years ago as I was finishing my nursing degree I read When Panic Attacks. It was mind blowing to me. At the time I was working on a Stroke Rehab unit and the psychologist would recommend our depressed and anxious patients be put on medication. When I asked if she had heard about your work she scoffed at it and it made me so mad! I wanted to scream at her to read your work but she was resistant to even listening and perhaps that will not surprise you based on your points (and also how I incorrectly tried to sell it to her!). I would see so many of my patients put on antidepressants and left alone afterwards as if that would solve everything. Even recently during my labour and delivery training we had a psychologist speak to us about post partum mood “disorders” and she specifically mentioned her patients “yes-butting” her and made a joke about how resistant they are to change and I just had this thought HELLOOOOO has agenda setting not been around for years????? Do people not search out solutions and try to be better? I could Google “my patient is yes-butting me” and your work would come up and it is not easy but it is spelled-out and so accessible to learn. Anyway, I could rant forever. I’m on the same page with you, Dr. Burns! Thank you for the follow-up email as well. You are right on this one for sure- my therapist observer totally was inaccurate! And I was thinking “I wonder what her EOV is here and if that was effective”. I had asked that question in the chat after the webinar but it was at the end and we did not get to it So next time I will ask that as a question in my email instead. I had not seen confrontation used like that and it did seem off-putting and that just shows how well-versed you are in its use and how I am a learner. Thank you for the feedback. This is making me laugh because I am in the Fast-Track course and I really strive on feedback, and I like getting errors over with. In my nursing career I always had “med error” as the thing I never wanted to do and it felt so good when I finally made one (and it also helps the patient was fine haha). So, I had this thought about learning TEAM and how I know that the therapists are never accurate and how I never want to be the therapist that assumes their thinking. So, I am very happy to have done it already and I have not even started the course really. I want to comment and ask about the spiritual aspect of TEAM. Did you find the spirituality came after personal work or did you see the spiritual aspect before or just as you were developing the whole process? Externalization of voices and a daily mood log is what got me to enlightenment, but it is hard to put into words. I had blips of the euphoria enlightenment over the years but about 5 years ago I had this “big one” and it was not euphoric. It was nothing (but everything) and it was like I became an observer and absolutely none of my thoughts had emotional attachments. It was instant relief of human suffering for sure. Sorry if this is bizarre and I am not sure if this resonates or if I sound like a crazy person. In your podcast with Lee you mentioned that enlightenment is lonely and so I thought maybe you have been here. When it first happened it was an overwhelm of being just matter and being everything and nothing all at once. I could see humanity from an outside perspective almost. I was raised catholic and everything that I learned made sense but in a very different way than I was taught - it was like I understood what Buddha and you and the bible talks about but the deeper meaning if that makes sense. And I sat in the observer role for a couple of days and it was fine because I had no emotional attachment. Actually, as a test I looked at my husband when he got home from work the day it happened and I recognized him of course but I just felt the baseline contentment or a peace overall. The nothingness and the everythingness all at once. When I looked at him I had no emotions or gut reactions or anything and when I thought “that is my husband” I had no emotional ties but I could recognize that my human self loves him but even that love was all created from nothing and everything. This sounds so bizarre! Day 3 or 4 I went to a house party and again I was just an observer and recognized that my human ego is very tied to wanting others to like me, when I attempted humor it would be to serve my ego, before I’d try to make people laugh for me rather for them and a lot of our actions are tied to our egos. After this party, maybe the next day or something I also saw that as I was observing that although I had no emotional ties that also means…I had no emotional ties! It came to me that to live a human life I cannot be in this enlightenment stage. It was lonely even though that did not bother me at the time and seeing humans from this outside perspective is incredibly hard to describe and was overwhelming. So in my enlightenment it was almost like I had to decide to step back into trying to be human so I could carry on with life and try and find these emotional ties and what to do with this awareness of my flaws and what even my personality is. It has rocked me a bit! I have decided to just follow things that I find fun or challenging or have become an interest and the flaws quickly followed! Have you heard of anyone having a bit of fear in reaching enlightenment again? Although the initial hit was so awesome and a huge relief of suffering, I experienced truly what it is like to not have flaws and not have any emotional ties to thoughts. I do have some interesting anxious thoughts about going “back there” and this was the perfect example of “everything in moderation”. I must love my flaws haha. Thanks for your time, Dr. Burns! I thought I had heard you mention during a podcast that you feel disappointed if you don’t see change in a 2 hour session maybe while you were empathizing with another therapist so I apologize that I was wrong there. I am most likely remembering it incorrectly or I presented the context incorrectly -it’s a common flaw of mine haha usually I need to write things down. Looking forward to hearing back, Jenn David’s response to Jenn Thanks, Jenn. Awesome email. In the context of my empathizing with another therapist, I could well have said something like that for sure! You are dipping into enlightenment. Way to go. Very exciting, and now YOU will be the expert. When I lived in Philadelphia, I was lucky to audit a class by James Arbukcle at Temple University on structural equation modeling. It was unbelievably exciting for me, and even though I was in private practice, I went once a week for the three hour seminar and did 20 hours of homework every week. I could not believe my good fortune, as he made everything super simple and clear. It was a wow experience every week. For quite a while, I would ask him question when I got stuck or puzzled analyzing my data with his AMOS program, and he seemed to know everything. Which was also cool. Then, one day, he started answer my questions by saying, "Actually, I don't know the answer to that." Like, the first time this happened I asked him the cause of Heywood cases. That where you get a seemingly impossible result, like a correlation greater than one. But then, an odd thing happened. I found that if I worked at it, I could figure these things out for myself. And often, the answers would come to me in a dream, in the middle of the night. So, like James, I probably can't answer all your questions anymore, although hopefully I can still answer a few of them! By the way, James Arbuckle was one of the most amazing teachers I've ever had, and I will forever be grateful for his generosity in letting me audit his class--I was not even a student at Temple--two years in a row for free. And what I learned forever changed my career and my life, especially my way of thinking about research and statistical analyses. Warmly, david Thanks for listening today! Rhonda, Matt, and David /episode/index/show/feelinggood/id/38502395

Awesome November 5 Social Anxiety Webinar for YOU! 11/03/2025

474: Ask David: What's the best way to do Positive Reframing? Is the "20 Qualities I'm Looking for in an Ideal Mate" reliable? And, How can I tell if someone I'm dating is REALLY honest, loyal, and faithful? Ask David: What's the best way to do Positive Reframing? Is the "20 Qualities I'm Looking for in an Ideal Mate" reliable? And, How can I tell if someone I'm dating is REALLY honest, loyal, and faithful? The answers to today’s questions are brief and were written prior to the show. Listen to the podcast for a more in-depth discussion of each question. Julia asks: is it more important to do positive reframing on feelings (anxiety, anger, frustration) rather than on specific thoughts («I should be calmer»)? Charlotte asks: What’s the best way to use the “20 Qualities I’m looking for in an ideal mate?” Charlotte also asks: What’s the best way to find out if someone you’re dating is going to be loyal, faithful, and honest? Julia asks: is it more important to do positive reframing on feelings (anxiety, anger, frustration) rather than on specific thoughts («I should be calmer»)? Dear David and Rhonda, I listened today to the Podcast 460 on The fear of Happiness. What a wonderful podcast! I love the deeper dives on one topic and especially when you focus on discussing positive reframing. If Rhonda felt like she didn’t do her best on the podcast, I definitely was struggling a lot even on coming up with positives for Thomas. And It's been some years since I positively reframe my feelings! Here is my question: Why is it more important to do positive reframing on feelings (anxiety, anger, frustration) rather than on specific thoughts («I should be calmer»)? I always find it easier and more helpful for myself to positively reframe the specific thoughts rather than the feelings. I specifically see the reason why a thought is both serving me and saying something so awesome about me and my core values. It usually elevates my mood and my overthinking on the spot. On the other hand doing it on feelings is also very helpful but can remain sometimes on the general level. It still speaks truly to me and I confirm every value but is less poignant than specific thoughts. Thank you both so much for such a wonderful podcast! All the best, Julia from Italy David’s Response Thanks, will add this to the next Ask David list. Great question! One thing to keep in mind is that you can do Positive Reframing on anything: a thought, a distortion, an emotion, a behavior, and more. So, the answer is, “it all depends!” On the podcast, we can try to figure out what it all depends on, so we have a systematic way of thinking about this great question. But part of the answer will be, “whatever works for you.” The PR of a thought is more specific and unique to you, so that’s a plus for including thoughts along with some of the feelings. The feelings are great because they are relatively easy, if you know how to PR them, and the impact can be enormous and, of course, beneficial. Warmly, david Charlotte asks: What’s the best way to use the “20 Qualities I’m looking for in an ideal mate?” Is this tool reliable? Charlotte also asks: What’s the best way to find out if someone you’re dating is going to be loyal, faithful, and honest? Dear David and dear Rhonda, I love the Podcast so much! It has come with me the last 2 years almost every week and its been incredibly helpful both as a therapist to be and as a human being doing this crazy thing called life! You two put so much of your heart into it and I am beyond grateful for all your hard work and what you give to all of us for free every week of the year. I don’t know where I would be without TEAM and what I know for sure is I never wanna live without TEAM and this beautiful community of kind, funny and big hearted people anymore. Big thanks to both of you and Matt May and all the people who agreed to publish their personal work. Those episodes are extra special for me and always help me overcome my own struggles even more! Hugs from Berlin, Germany Charlotte I also have a question regarding your episodes around Dating. OMG I can’t tell you how helpful they were for me. I am going through a pretty painful break up right now and these episodes gave me so many tips for my future endeavors of dating to find a life partner! So, I would be more than thrilled about another or more podcasts going through that topic! I have two questions regarding Dating that came up for me along the way: There is this sheet I use often and was mentioned called "20 qualities in a partner." I love this and rated all my exes in hindsight and also people I dated e.g. my then boyfriend. My boyfriend got a way higher score than my exes at the time and now that we are broken up I reviewed that list. Knowing what I know now the score changed quite a bit which confused me a lot. Now I am wondering how reliable this list is especially if you don’t know the person very well in the beginning. How do you handle this list when you’re on your first date--let’s say--and barely know that person? It’s hard to rate someone on availability, loyalty, honesty and so forth when you don’t know them yet?! Is there a trick you can do to find that out quicker and do you recommend to review that list after every date and see if you can rate them more realistically now? My second question is a bit similar. How can you slowly find out how trustworthy, empathetic, honest, loyal, faithful a person is? Interestingly enough since my score on both anxiety and depression is 0 for most of the time the last 2 years, I had two bad experiences in dating. Both my partners were unfaithful and dishonest about it. Which is interesting for me because my two long term boyfriends were at a time, I was struggling with anxiety and both of them were very loyal, warm, faithful and very much involved in our relationship. So, I feel like my anxiety motivated me to choose very carefully and now that I am doing really good in life and love being by myself and don’t need a relationship anymore but want to have a life partner and marry eventually I kind seem to choose more poorly when it comes to partners. I hope my questions make any sense! Warmly, Charlotte David’s response Thanks Charlotte. I’ll add these to our upcoming Ask David recording. Great questions on dating, one of my favorite topics! Warmly, david Thanks for listening today! Rhonda, Matt, and David /episode/index/show/feelinggood/id/38502300

Free webinar on social anxiety. Powerful tools for everyone! 10/27/2025

473: Ask David: Dr. Matt's Question! 10/27/2025

473: Ask David: Dr. Matt's Question! Ask David, Dr. Matthew May asks--and helps us answer--the most common question he hears from his patients and fans: How do I help a loved one, friend, or colleague who's upset, agitated, angry, anxious, and more? Matt asks: People ask me about a loved one who is anxious, and want to know what to do to help that person. Example: "My daughter is hooked on social media. She's literally 'addicted'. She has terrible insomnia, low self-esteem, anxiety, hopelessness, depression, anger and fits of rage when we try to take her phone away. When my daughter is online, she texts things like: Is this really happening? This can't be happening OMG! This is terrible! How awful! Why am I so unpopular? I'm totally alone I shouldn't have posted all that stuff Everyone thinks I'm an idiot I have to do something to fit in Everything's hopeless. I give up. Is someone monitoring and recording me? All those creeps are evil and deserve worse than what they're getting On the podcast, Matt, Rhonda and David demonstrate effective and ineffective ways of responding to your loved one, or to anyone who is complaining and feeling upset. They use role-playing to illustrate the Five Secrets of Effective Communication, and you will see how hard it can be to hit it out of the park, even for experts! Thanks for listening today! In the upcoming weeks, we'll have several more Ask David episodes with these questions and more. Julia asks: is it more important to do positive reframing on feelings (anxiety, anger, frustration) rather than on specific thoughts («I should be calmer»)? Charlotte asks: What’s the best way to use the “20 Qualities I’m looking for in an ideal mate?” Charlotte also asks: What’s the best way to find out if someone you’re dating is going to be loyal, faithful, and honest? Jenn asks: Are you getting old and cranky now? Zhang asks: I have intrusive daydreams and obsess about getting things perfect? What’s causing this? And what can I do? Yevhen asks: How can I use “I Feel” Statements without oversharing? George asks: Would my approach help someone who is suicidal? No Name asks: Do I need to worry about my daughter’s anxiety? Jeffrey asks: Can you disarm yourself? Thanks for listening today! Rhonda, Matt, and David /episode/index/show/feelinggood/id/38502180

472: You're Right! Featuring Dr. Brandon Vance 10/20/2025

472: You're Right! Featuring Dr. Brandon Vance You’re Right! A Deep Dive on the Disarming Technique Featuring Dr. Brandon Vance On today’s podcast, we will be practicing the Disarming Technique and illustrate the Law of Opposites, using real examples with lots of potential for learning. We feature our good friend and esteemed colleague, Brandon Vance, MD, who is an advanced TEAM therapist. Starting on November 5, Brandon will be offering a 6-week course on a Deep Dive Five Secrets Practice Group, meeting weekly from 12 to1:30, until December 10th. This course is strongly recommended for anyone who wants to learn and master the Five Secrets of Effective Communication. To learn more, you can Our goals for today's podcast will be to illustrate how to disarm, with role play examples, of any number of very challenging examples. Once we have done role reversals and developed a good or excellent response to the criticism, we will try to point out two things important for teaching the Disarming Technique. The Law of Opposite: Here it is: When you humbly find the real truth in the criticism, even if it sounds exaggerated, distorted, unfair, or just plan wrong, it suddenly won’t be true anymore. This is a paradox! In contrast, if you defend yourself from the criticism, which you WILL do, you will simply prove that the criticism is correct. This is also a paradox! We will illustrate some strategies for how to disarm seemingly “impossibly wrong and unfair” criticisms. We started with a classic example. Let's say a loved one angrily insists, “You never listen.” Then we focused on a challenging clinical example, a patient who insists that “You’re to worst shrink I’ve EVER had! Where did you do your psychiatric training? At a veterinarian school?” The exercise is fairly simple in structure, but quite challenging when you try it out in an actual role play exercise with a friend or colleague. Step 1: Your colleague or friends hits you with one of the following criticisms listed below. Step 2: You respond as effectively as you can, using the Disarming Technique and the rest of the Five Secrets of Effective Communication as needed. Step 3. Your colleague gives you a letter grade along with what you did that was effective, and where you missed the boat. Step 4. Do a role reversal and repeat the above steps. Continue with this process until you get an A in your response to the criticism. I don’t have a full list of strategies for agreeing with impossible criticisms, but here are two: continue editing here Don’t respond to the criticism literally. Instead, try to “hear” what the other person is trying to say to you. Example: Your patient says, “This is the second week in a row that you’ve been late to our sessions.” Ineffective, literal response: “Yes, that’s true. I’ve been delayed by emergency situations both today and last week.” Explanation: This is harsh and literal, and misses the point entirely. This patient is trying to tell you that they feel ignored and uncared about, and this may in fact be a central dynamic in their life. Somewhat more effective response: “Yes, I share your concern, especially since I have high regard for you and hate having to be late. I’m really worried it will come across as uncaring and irresponsible. In fact, I had unexpected emergencies with suicidal patients both days, and will certainly make up the missed time for you, and not even charge you for today’s session. Still, I wouldn’t be surprised if you feel hurt and even a bit angry with me, and for good reason. Can you tell me how you are feeing?” This type of response gives you the chance to turn your lemons into lemonade! When you disarm, never say, “I can see how you might feel that way!” This is just a subtle way of sending this insulting message” ‘You’re wrong, and you’re making a misinterpretation because you’re a disturbed patient!” If a psychotic individuals makes a bizarre-sounding criticism, listen to the music behind the words and respond to that in a disarming way. For example, imagine that your hospitalized inpatient with paranoid schizophrenia says, “I know you’re conspiring against me with the FBI.” What is this patient trying to tell you? They are telling you, symbolically, something like this: “During our session yesterday, you were not trustworthy. I was anxious and still am!” So, you might respond like this: “Jim, I am embarrassed to admit that I agree with you completely, and also feel bad about it. During our session yesterday, I did a lousy job of supporting you, and we just didn’t connect, which was my bad. I felt like an enemy, and not your ally, so I get what you’re saying. This is important because I care a great deal for you. Can you tell me what it was like for you yesterday?” With this type of kindly, disarming, and non-threatening response, most patients will open up right away. This list of errors is not comprehensive. It’s just a started kit to point you, hopefully, in the right direction. You will get many of the fine points by listening to the live podcast. You might enjoy reviewing the following list of difficult / impossible criticisms you might hear from patients or friends of family members. It can be really helpful to see if you can find a way to agree with these criticisms that’s genuine and effective. Burns, isn’t it true that you’re a total fraud and a worthless human being? You’re full of shit and you know it! I followed your suggestion on what to say to my relative, even using the 5-Secrets, and now they won't speak to me. Rhonda says: Just to be clear, the following challenges from unhappy kids were not directed at me! I wish you had died instead of Mom. (We practiced this one on the live podcast.) Can you give me my inheritance now, so I don't have to see you ever again? You need to butt out of what you don't understand. All I remember from my childhood is how you weren't there for me. You should have protected me when I was a kid, but you didn't. Here are some more from patients in various setting. A patient yells out as you pass on the locked inpatient psych ward: "Doctor, you're trying to kill me!" Or as a (non-suicidal) private practice patient said: "You probably wish I was dead!" Or "You like your other patients better than me" An angry patient says: "you've ruined my life!" An unhappy patient says: I bet you faked your diploma! More personal / family examples A romantic partner says "you're gaslighting me". A friend says "you're flirting with my girlfriend - you're trying to steal her away from me!" Your wife says "you're having an affair" when you're not. Your teenage son says "I know I was an accident and you wish you never even had me." Your student catches you in the hallway and winks saying, "You like me better than the other students, right?" Thanks for listening today! Brandon, Rhonda, and David /episode/index/show/feelinggood/id/38499945

471: TEAM Trauma Treatment: Featuring Dr. Jill Levitt 10/13/2025

471: TEAM Trauma Treatment: Featuring Dr. Jill Levitt TEAM Trauma Treatment-- How Does It Work? And Why? Featuring Dr. Jill Levitt Today's podcast features one of our favorite guests, Dr. Jill Levitt, who is one of the greatest psychology teachers on planet earth. We explore trauma, and how it is treated. We focus in particular on the unique features of trauma treatment using TEAM CBT. Jill is currently the Director of Training at the Feeling Good Institute in Mountain View, California, but she has had intensive training in trauma treatment beginning during her psychology internship at the Cornell Medical Center (? is this correct) in 200? (dates please Jill) and continuing until (date please.) She worked with adults survivors of childhood physical and sexual abuse, as well as victims of the 2011 tragedy at the world trade center, which happened when she was working in New York. She got extra training from several outstanding experts in the treatment of trauma and anxiety, including the renown Dr. Edna Foa, from Temple University in Philadelphia, as well as (please list if you like, Jill!) Rhonda also has extensive experience in the treatment of trauma since she worked for (x years, please fill in) at th San Francisco Rape and Trauma Clinical. Rhonda emphasized the importance of shame and toxic but high irrational self-blame so often seen in trauma patients of all ages, including, of course, children. Jill and Rhonda emphasized the importance of the selective use of exposure techniques with trauma patients, and the unfortunate fear that many, and perhaps most, therapists have of these techniques, wrongly fearing that the patient will decompensate and that the therapist, too, will become overwhelmed when hearing the patient recount their horrific experiences in detail. I, David, will add that I've never had a negative experience with the use of exposure techniques, like cognitive flooding, memory rescripting, and many more with any trauma patients. However, I always do E = Empathy first, as well as A = Paradoxical Agenda Setting, to guarantee that the patient and I will be working together as a collaborative team. Rhonda asked us to talk a bit about "vicarious trauma" that the therapist might experience when working with trauma patients. Both Jill and David said they've never experienced this, and that only our thoughts, and not the experiences our patients describe, can upset us. We believe the concept of "vicarious trauma" is highly (but not intentionally) misleading and needlessly frightening to those working with trauma patients. Of course, if a therapist does become triggered when working with any patient, including a trauma patient, that is grist for the mill for the therapist to work out with their own therapist, using perhaps the Daily Mood Log to explore and challenge the therapist's upsetting negative thoughts. Perhaps the most important theme today focused on the treatment of trauma patients--as well as non-trauma patients--individually, using TEAM to pinpoint one moment the patient was upset, and exploring their negative thoughts and feelings with the help of the Daily Mood Log, as well as the other vitally important components of T E A M. I (David) do not place much stock in treating patients with "formulas" based on their "diagnosis" or problem. I did 20 or more two day trauma workshops around the US and Canada several years back, and treated a volunteer from the audience at each workshop on the evening of day 1, using a two-hour TEAM CBT session. In all or nearly all of these sessions, the individuals experienced a triumphant and blow-away elimination of all their negative feelings by the end of the demonstration. But here's the interesting thing: although I occasionally included cognitive exposure, it was perhaps the technique I used the least often with these individuals. Far more powerful for most were techniques like Explain the Distortions, the Paradoxical Double Standard Technique, and the Externalization of Voices. Sometime, an interpersonal technique, including the Five Secrets of Effective Communication, was helpful, even life-changing. If you are interested, you can read about those sessions in Chapter X in my most recent book, Feeling Great, as well as illustrations of the data from all the patients, showing the dramatic changes in negative and positive feelings from the start to the end of the sessions. Why did these individuals recover so dramatically and quickly--within a single session? I believe it was because I focused on what was upsetting THEM, and developing an agenda and selecting methods to focus on what they wanted. This, to my way of thinking, is different, even radically different, from imposing a pre-set agenda on patients simply because we think they have some type of trauma diagnosis. David described the three elements of an "abuse contract" between the abuser and the victim: I get to hurt or exploit you for my own pleasure. The Blame will be 100% on you. I am a blameless, superior god. We must keep this as a secret, even between us. If you violate this, I will hurt you very badly. Thanks for listening today! Jill, Rhonda, and David /episode/index/show/feelinggood/id/38499840

470: Ask David: Rhonda's Three Questions! 10/06/2025

470: Ask David: Rhonda's Three Questions! Procrastination: Be Gone! And "Physician, Heal Thyself!" Really? Why? The answers to today’s questions are brief and were written prior to the show. Listen to the podcast for a more in-depth discussion of each question. This will be podcast #470 on 10/6/2025 Procrastination: Be Gone! And Physician, Heal Thyself! Really? Why? The answers to today’s questions are brief and were written prior to the show. Listen to the podcast for a more in-depth discussion of each question. Rhonda asks: Why do people procrastinate? Rhonda asks: Wouldn't you first deal with the negative thoughts that are a part of the procrastination before working on it? Rhonda asks: Here is a question I have: You often say, "physician heal thyself," and encourage personal work by the therapist. Why does the therapist have to face their own issues to help someone else? A heart surgeon doesn't have to have heart surgery in order to conduct surgery on their patient. Why does a therapist have to do their personal work? Rhonda writes: I have been thinking a lot about procrastination since we met last week. Why do people procrastinate? It's one thing not to put away a stack of files on your desk, it's another thing to procrastinate on something major, like finishing your dissertation, doing your taxes, or some things that have a major consequence. It's a habit like anything else so there is a cue, the pattern, and the reward. Cue: I don't want to finish my dissertation because it's overwhelming and I don't think I am smart enough to finish it, and I don't want to face it. Pattern: Procrastinate Reward: Relief that I have avoided it another day. So, wouldn't you first deal with the negative thoughts that are a part of the procrastination before working on it? I've also been thinking a lot about positive reframing. I always do it, even with a client who has done it before, to remind people, and keep alive, their positive qualities, and to encourage more embracing/accepting of their symptoms as beautiful parts of themselves. With clients who have experience doing Positive Reframe, reframing their THOUGHTS, not just their feelings, can give a lot of insight. Here is a question I have, you often say, "physician heal thyself," and encourage personal work by the therapist. Why does the therapist have to face their own issues to help someone else? A heart surgeon doesn't have to have heart surgery in order to conduct surgery on their patient. Why does a therapist? David replies People procrastinate because they don’t want to do the thing they are putting off. There is no one reason, since we’re all different. And we all tend to avoid things that seem unpleasant, and gravitate towards things that are more pleasant. I classify it in the general category of “Habit / Addiction.” For years I dealt with the reasons people procrastinate as a first step, including the thoughts they have at the moment they procrastinate. I thought my job was to “help” the person who was procrastinating. This was universally unsuccessful, and not their failure became MY failure. This allowed them to continue procrastinating, since the doctor was trying to help them, and responsible for helping them. I decided, instead, to go with an approach that works. It took a number of years to figure that out! But it was a huge relief! We don’t say that a psychiatrist or psychologist has to have schizophrenia or be cured of schizophrenia to help someone with schizophrenia. And we don’t say that a mental health professional has to have OCD to treat someone with OCD effectively. No one has ever claimed that. What I am saying is that a heart surgeon has to have credibility and training in successful heart surgery to get the license practice surgery. But how does a mental professional get credibility? Well, let’s say that you’ve once had severe public speaking anxiety, as I have had. And social anxiety as well. So, when a patient comes to me with social anxiety or public speaking anxiety, I can say, “Oh, I’ve had that too, and I know exactly how awful that can feel. And, it’s going to be a pleasure to show you the way out of the woods.” This message is generally welcomed by patients because it conveys two messages: I know how much you’re suffering, because I’ve experienced it myself. I have the skills and the confidence to treat you successfully. Would you want to go to a therapist for the treatment of your own public speaking anxiety, or shyness, if you knew that the therapist had these problems and still hadn’t found a cure for themself? There are other powerful reasons for doing your own personal work: You can see the impact of therapist errors if colleagues have tried to treat you without good empathy or methods. You can see what recovery / enlightenment mean at a much deeper level! You can see how and why certain techniques can be so critically important and helpful, and why many others will not be helpful. Once you have done your own work successfully, and experienced your own “enlightenment” or “recovery” or whatever you want to call it, you are no longer a mental health professional / technician type of therapist. You graduate to the “healer” class! During the live show, I went through the structure of the new approach to procrastination, and she sent this email right after finishing her “Mission Accomplished” or “I stubbornly refused” task. Dear Matt and David! Successfully completed! Thank you, Rhonda Thanks for listening today! Rhonda, Matt, and David /episode/index/show/feelinggood/id/38150350

469: Ask David: Is AI trying to steal your career? 09/29/2025

469: Ask David: Is AI trying to steal your career? #469 Ask David-- What if AI steals my job? I'm freaking out! Recently, I got a cool question from Megan Morrone, a technology and science editor at Axios. She asked about job anxiety due to fears of AI taking over our work. Initially, I declined to speculate, since I’ve never treated anxiety due to AI stealing someone's job. But the more I thought about it, I realized I had quite a few, perhaps humble, things to say, so here it is, with help from Matt and Rhonda. I’ll include a link to her column at the end of these show notes. She wrote: Dear Dr. Burns, I’m a technology and science editor at Axios, working on a story about job anxiety and how it affects workers today. Would have time to chat with me about it? I’m hoping to schedule a brief phone or Zoom conversation before Tuesday. 15–20 minutes? We’d potentially discuss: Why job-related anxiety feels especially pervasive right now What strategies are most effective in managing it How CBT approaches can be applied in workplace or career contexts Please let me know if you have availability. Best, Megan Morrone She subsequently clarified her focus: Hi! I'm looking at anxiety around AI stealing your job. Would you be able to speak to that? Any chance you're Monday between 7:30AM-9:30AM Pacific or anytime after 12:30pm Pacific time? I'd only need 20-30 minutes and we can do it via phone or video call. David’s response Hi Megan, I thought of one point I could make if it would further your cause. Every negative emotion has a healthy and an unhealthy version. For example, healthy fear—when you’re facing a realistic danger—is not the same as a panic attack or a phobia or social anxiety, etc. Healthy fear, or healthy sadness, and so forth, or not emotional problems needing treatment, but realistic emotions telling us to take action. Sadly, with AI as the latest revolution, lots will change, some good, some bad. And sadly, many will lose their work due to being taken over by AI. Our son, for example, used to get high paid work anytime he wanted in user interface work for companies with prominent web presences. But now AI does all of that, apparently. So, he has to look for something entirely different, and he’s tried a lot. With a wife and a baby, the financial issues are real. Now, if someone starts getting overwhelmed by feelings of anxiety, self-criticism, and inadequacy, and hopelessness, that IS something I can help with—big time, Bu the practical problems in finding new and different work will remain even after the person has regained self-esteem and optimism. So sometimes scrambling and being flexible, if possible, and getting coaching with an expert in jobs and career development, perhaps, on what might be practically possible, is called for, and not psychotherapy. I LOVE working with anxiety and can usually guide my patients to extremely rapid recovery, which is tremendously rewarding, for them and for me! But when the problem is real, my expertise does not match the needs. Hope this helps in some small way. Of course, sometimes a good shrink can help with sorting out options in the real world, but that generally requires a different type of specialized training. It is profoundly sad, and we have personally experienced it, that so many people are facing this tragic uncertainty and worry about making ends meet and finding themselves lost due to this overwhelming and unpredictable new revolution. For what it’s worth, my book, when Panic Attacks, is a mass market paperback that has helped many anxiety sufferers and illustrate a great many methods. Also, our Feeling Great app is currently free of charge and causes dramatic reductions in anxiety, depression, and a host of other negative emotions in less than 90 minutes the first time people sit down and use it. It actually includes a highly trained AI designed to use the exact methods I use in my work, and our data suggests that it vastly outperforms most human therapists but will probably not replace them because some serious problems require human intervention. Best, david David responds to Megan a bit further Wonderful, I had one or two additional thoughts for you. People faced with layoffs due to AI (or any reason) face two challenges: the inner challenge and the outer challenge. The outer challenge involves finding, of course, some new way to work and support yourself and your family. The inner challenge has to do with your thoughts. One of the Self-Defeating Beliefs behind a great deal of depression and anxiety is the Achievement Addiction, which means measuring your self-worth based on your work, your achievements, and so forth. This goes back to the Calvinist work ethic, as you know, which is one of the cornerstones of western civilization: you ARE what you DO. So if you do good things, you are a good person; but if you are not doing anything productive or constructive, you are worthless. So it is super easy to fall into a pattern of self-critical (and distorted) negative thoughts when you lose your work, including “I’m worthless,” and “I’m letting my family down,” and “this is my fault,” or “it’s unfair,” and endless varieties of these themes that can trigger immediate depression, anxiety, shame, inadequacy, hopelessness, anger, and more. So that is the inner battle. And that’s where good psychotherapy CAN play a hugely important role, so you don’t have to double your trouble and face a loss of your job plus the loss of your self-esteem and dignity at the same time. Thanks, and good luck with your article! Warmly, david We discussed a great deal more on the live podcast. Megan just emailed me again, and here’s what she said: You’re way ahead of me! The story hasn’t been published yet. But you can plug our Axios AI+ newsletter So, check it out! And thanks for listening today! Matt, Rhonda, and David /episode/index/show/feelinggood/id/38150305

468: The 2025 Feeling Good Podcast Survey 09/22/2025

468: The 2025 Feeling Good Podcast Survey The 2025 Feeling Good Podcast Survey Featuring Sevde Kalidiroglu, Director of Marketing, Feeling Great app This is the third survey of our podcast fans since the first podcast was broadcast on October 27, 2016, and the most recent was roughly five years ago. Our awesome Director Marketing at the Feeling Great app conducted the survey and prepared the report which you can review if you Essentially, we wanted to know a little bit about who you are and why you listen, and what you like the most, and least, and what kinds of changes you'd like to see. 183 of you graciously completed the survey. Thanks! We discussed many of the findings on the podcast, and you can click the link above for the full report, but here are just a few highlights: Roughly 1/4 of you are mental health professionals, and 3/4 are general public. Men and women were represented equally. 60% of you are from the US, and 40% of you are international listeners. The age range is heavily tilted toward the older generation, with 66% of you above 50 years of age, and not a single podcast fan less than 20 years old! And why do you listen? Nearly 90% of you are listening to improve your emotional well-being. This was great to hear, and consistent with the many emails I receive describing the help so many of you have gotten from the podcast. In fact, one recent podcast fan fired their therapist due to lack of progress, having made much more progress from listening to the podcast. Many of you listen in order to learn TEAM CBT techniques, including therapists who want to improve their clinical skills as well as individuals who want to learn techniques they can use in their daily lives. Other reasons for listening include: Improve my own emotional well-being 87.1% Learn therapy techniques 57.9% Learn about mental health topics 53.4% Support friends/family 49.4% Entertainment 20.2%“ One respondent wrote: "The podcast helps me apply tools to real-life problems that day—whether loneliness, meaning, or mood swings.” If you click on the survey, you'll find a plethora of interesting findings, clearly presented. Rhonda and I are grateful to you, Sevde, for compiling this information, and we are all very grateful to you, our loyal fans, for sticking with us all these years! We will try hard to be mindful of the take-home messages at the end, which included: Key Recommendations 1. Keep Live Therapy and How-To episodes front and center 2. Reduce episode length & polish editing 3. Bridge podcast and app more clearly (especially in the U.S.) 4. Refresh branding and improve accessibility 5. Add diversity in guest speakers and clinical styles 6. Prioritize topics like perfectionism, trauma, resistance, and self-defeating beliefs 7. Keep posting webinar recordings as podcast episodes Thanks for listening today! Sevde, Rhonda, and David /episode/index/show/feelinggood/id/38146765

467: Ask David: How can I help grandma and my mom? 09/15/2025

467: Ask David: How can I help grandma and my mom? #467 Ask David-- How can I help my elderly, demanding grandma? How can I empathize with hostile political figures? The answers to today’s questions are brief and were written prior to the show. Listen to the podcast for a more in-depth discussion of each question. Today’s questions. Brittany says that her elderly grandmother has become very needy and demanding, and that her mom finds grandmother’s behavior irritating. She wants to know how she can help her mom / grandmom. Jenny asks: How do we empathize with people we are extremely angry with, including prominent political figures? Brittany says that her elderly grandmother has become very needy and demanding, and that her mom finds grandmother’s behavior irritating. Brittany wants to know how she can help her mom / grandmom. Hi Dr. Burns, A few months ago my grandma fell down her stairs and broke some ribs. She was in a nursing home for a short while since she needed physical therapy and assistance doing daily tasks. Before the accident, she lived alone and was completely independent. During her recovery, she pretty much had round the clock visitors. More than any other person in the nursing home. My grandma complained constantly and anytime someone would say “you look good” or “you seem to be doing better” she would very quickly respond with how terrible she feels etc. Having listened to your podcast on how to deal with complainers, I could see it was because nobody was acknowledging her feelings. They just wanted to say things to cheer her up. She is now recovered and back home, but she refuses to do things on her own again that she is capable of and the doctor cleared her to do. She has a terrible attitude and is constantly calling up family members and her friends to run errands for her. Example: my mom picked up some lettuce she asked for her. Then my grandma called her friend to go get her one afterwards, saying the one my mom bought was too small. She acts completely ungrateful. She texted me that she has been so lonely with no visitors but then my mom tells me that is not true. That she has had people coming over every day and taking her places. My mom is at her wits end dealing with her demanding attitude and ungratefulness. I know Jill had an example before where her mom was saying how hard things are and nobody is there for her and Jill used the five secrets. This situation feels a little different. How can my mom get her life back and get my grandma to do things on her own again? -Brittany David’s reply Hi Brittany, How about including this as another Ask David? One problem, as I see it, is that your mom is not asking David for help. So I could only help you with your response to your mom, acknowledging how difficult things are for her. In other words, use the Five Secrets of Effective Communication. Of course, this assumes you want help with your interaction with your mom. It can be hard not to "HELP" when a loved one, like grandma, AND your mom, are suffering and struggling. Sadly, I have learned that trying to help third parties is not satisfying or effective most of the time. But modifying the way I interact with people is almost always helpful. Don't know if this make sense. Certainly we can see what Matt and Rhonda have to add / suggest. Warmly, david Brittany’s response to David: Sure, I think it would be a great ask David. I would be interested in your approach if it were my mom asking you for help. What would you tell her and what your five secrets approach might be. -Brittany David’s response: I always prefer have a specific example to a hypothetical question. I can only help you with YOUR responses to your mom, or to anyone. Can you give an example of something she has said to you that you want help responding to effectively? Warmly, david Jenny asks: How do we empathize with people we are extremely angry with, including prominent political figures? Dear David and Rhonda, Your session on dealing with cancer was incredibly heart-warming and so compassionate. I will be sharing that with my sister who is in a similar situation and now completely healed from her cancer! My question deals with anger. Many of us are dealing with anger and frustration at our country, president, and White House, who are taking rights away from us that we have earned over the past 80+ years. I find applying your positive ideas about anger to be very helpful: to view anger as having a high moral sense of justice and fairness, and to view frustration as keeping vigilant and to not get discouraged. But I want to investigate further how these anger/frustration ideas can be applied to White Supremacists and Steven Miller. Because when you hear these people talk they are so incredibly angry, and are directing their anger at other people in destructive ways. How could we, if given the opportunity, talk to them and feel empathy with them? Thanks so much, Jenny David’s response: If you like, we can include your excellent and highly relevant question in an upcoming Ask David podcast. Thanks for listening today! Matt, Rhonda, and David /episode/index/show/feelinggood/id/37973745

466: Ask David: Is friendship a need? Help! I'm lost and alone! 09/08/2025

466: Ask David: Is friendship a need? Help! I'm lost and alone! Ask David: Is friendship a basic human need? Lost and alone--What should I do? #466 Ask David: Is friendship a basic human need? Lost and alone—what should I do? The answers to today’s questions are brief and were written prior to the show. Listen to the podcast for a more in-depth discussion of each question. Today’s questions. Zainab asks: Is friendship a basic human need? Slash says: I’m lost and alone. I really don’t know what direction to take in my life. What should I do? Zainab asks: Is friendship a basic human need? Hello Dr. Burns, I have a question that has been pestering me for years. I know you said you don't need romantic love to be happy, but I find it hard to believe that you can be happy alone without any friends. Humans are social creatures and there have been studies that said being alone is equivalent to smoking cigarettes - that's how detrimental it is to your health. Being alone can be very dangerous - that is why solitary confinement is one of the worst punishments given in prisons. Best regards, Zainab David’s reply However, the question, as I see it, would be whether adult, or romantic love as you call it, is a want or a need? Do we “need” it to feel happy? What were your happiest moments, between 0 and 100? I have had several incredibly happy moments that did not have anything to do with being loved or not being loved. What, in your opinion, is the maximum happiness possible if you are alone or unloved? What, exactly, is the claim that you are making? Have you ever intentionally spent time alone to check it out? And if, just if, you did not “need” romantic love to feel happy, would you want to know that? Or would you prefer to insist that we “need” love for happiness, even if it isn’t true? In my experience working with many patients, the “need” for romantic love can actually be one of the greatest causes of unhappiness, and one of the greatest barriers to love as well! Best, david PS Here’s another way to answer the question. What’s your definition of “need?” Or, to put it slightly differently, what is it that you think you “need” friendship for? It wouldn’t be a cup of coffee at Starbucks, for example, because anyone can walk in and purchase coffee. And you don’t need friendship to breathe. Air is free. And also, what, in your opinion, would be the difference between “wanting” friendship and “needing friendship?” Also, what is your definition of “love.” Love has many meanings, and is not some precise “thing.” It’s just a word we use in a great variety of ways. I love blueberry pie, but these days I avoid it because it is quite sweet, and I’m trying to avoid calories. I don’t “need” blueberry pie. It’s just a “nice to have” every now and then. I promised to include the Pleasure Predicting Sheet in the show notes so you can do the experiment suggested on the podcast. So here it is! Slash says: I’m lost and alone. I really don’t know what direction to take in my life! What should I do? Subject: Feeling Lost Hi Dr. Burns, I wanted to share some mixed feelings with you. Your podcasts and techniques have been very helpful, and I’m truly grateful for the comfort and hope they bring me. I’ve been a shy, lonely person for most of my life, and only recently have I started to feel a little bit of confidence. Still, I worry a lot—just like my father. It’s 4 a.m. as I write this, and I keep asking myself, What should I do with my life? Sometimes I dream about learning music, sometimes I think about getting a job, but whenever I try, my anxiety takes over and I step back. I often see myself as someone carrying many kinds of anxiety—social anxiety, constant worrying, nervousness about driving, blood phobia, and even anxiety that comes out of nowhere. I’ve also learned from you that hidden emotions can be powerful, and I’m beginning to notice that in myself. Sometimes I go out with my friends, enjoy the moment, and feel lighter. But when I come back and look at my father, my uncle, and my grandfather, I feel a wave of sadness again. My father struggles with anxiety, my uncle (who once lived bold and fearless) now has schizophrenia and cannot work, and my grandfather, at 88 years old, still travels in crowded buses to support the family. Their struggles weigh on my heart, and I often feel I’m not doing anything meaningful in comparison. Sometimes I even find myself seeing you as a grandfather figure, because your words carry so much wisdom and kindness. It feels strange to say, but I really don’t know what direction to take in my life. If you could share even a little guidance, I would be deeply grateful. Warmly, Slash David’s response We can include this in an Ask David podcast if you like! Please advise. Warmly, david We can use your first name or a fake name, whatever you prefer. Matt, Rhonda, and David /episode/index/show/feelinggood/id/37973680

465: The Music of TEAM 09/05/2025

465: The Music of TEAM The Music of TEAM-- A Little Different from the Music of REBT! There are many paradoxes in TEAM! That's part of what makes TEAM challenging, but also exciting. Do you know what the plural of paradox is? Paradise! Sometimes, music allows us to "see" or "get" something that pure thinking struggles with. Years ago, followers of the renowned but controversial Dr. Albert Ellis loved singing the famous and outrageous songs written by Dr. Ellis and featuring key ideas in the Rational Emotive Behavior Therapy (REBT) he created. They were popular because they captured his core messages, involving low frustration tolerance, whining and complaining, and more. Dr. Ellis wrote the words, and the music came from popular songs familiar to anyone, like Battle Hymn of the Republic, and many others. If you like, you can hear a brief interview with Dr. Ellis, and listen as he discusses the dire “need” for love and sings one of his songs about the need (demand) for love Although none of the REBT songs made the top list on the top ten charts, they brought tons of glee to his many fans, especially when the participants at his psychotherapy conferences would sing them together. His humorous music made it a little easier for some of us to recognize the absurdity in the intense “shoulds” we direct against ourselves when we fall short and a world that isn’t the way it “should” be, according to our narcissistic rules! Today, we hear some of the music of TEAM CBT which seems to be increasing in popularity recently. However, the themes are quite different from the cutting and sarcastic music of the Albert Ellis era. Instead, they tend to focus on some of the more tender and inspiring messages of TEAM CBT. For example, I’ve often described a key idea that I learned from my beloved cat, teacher, and friend, Obie: “When you no longer need to be special, the world becomes special.” The message focuses on the perfectionism and self-criticism that so many patients and therapists alike indulge in, criticizing themselves mercilessly for every error, failure, and shortcoming, thinking that if they work hard enough, they will achieve something tremendous and attain a lofty status of true “specialness.” You will hear the song, “Am I Special?” on today’s podcast. The lyrics of “Am I Special?” were written by Angela Poch, the music was written by Shalynn Burton. Angela Poch put together the virtual choir featuring Rachael, Shalynn, Brandon Vance, Eric Burns and Heather Clague. The Acceptance Paradox is at the core of that song and many TEAM CBT techniques—finding joy and enlightenment when you accept your shitty, below average self. And here’s the essence of the Acceptance Paradox: When you accept yourself exactly as you are, warts and all, everything suddenly changes. You perceive yourself and your world through new eyes, and you see that everything is actually quite different from the way you thought, and you experience a sense of freedom, liberation, and joy. David Burns, MD This is a paradox because total acceptance and total change appear to be exact opposites! But in fact, their the exact same thing! Along the same lines, the so-called "Great Death" of the "self" is actually the "Great Rebirth," or a great "waking up" from a trance. Much of today’s music revolves around those kinds of themes. And some of it focuses on the Five Secrets of Effective Communication and the Disarming Technique, which highlights another key paradox that I call the Law of Opposites: When someone criticizes you with an unfair and untrue criticism, you will the overwhelming urge to argue and defend yourself. If you give in to this urge—and nearly everybody does—you will actually PROVE that the criticism was actually 100% valid, and the critic will continue to attack and criticize you. That’s a Paradox! And here’s the other side of that paradox: If you immediately, humbly, and genuinely agree with a criticism that sounds unfair and untrue, you will instantly put the lie to it, and the criticism will suddenly realize that the criticism simply isn’t true. That’s also a Paradox. So much for the background, and some of the philosophy behind the music you’ll hear today. First, here are the performers you’ll hear in today’s podcast, with brief bio sketches: Mark Noble, PhD is a famed neuroscientist and recently certified TEAM CBT coach. Today, he sings three songs with guitar: Placebo, Mind Warp, and Song of My Self. You can contact him at mark_noble@urmc.rochester.edu Heather Clague, MD is a psychiatrist and Level 5 Advanced Master TEAM therapist practicing in Oakland, California. Heather and her colleague, Brandon Vance, MD, are the originators of the immensely popular Feeling Great and Feeling Great app book clubs. For more information, got to . Brandon Vance, MD is also a psychiatrist and Level 4 Master TEAM therapist and song writer practicing in Oakland. For more information, go to . He works with Heather on a variety of immensely popular Feeling Great book and app clubs. Heather and Brandon sang the song Heather wrote, “TEAM Is Paradoxical.” In addition to singing, Heather plays the ukulele. Erik Burns is the son of David Burns, MD. He lives with his wife and son in Santa Cruz, California, and practices hypnosomatic therapy for individuals struggling with anxiety as well as those with gastrointestinal complaints. He was recently featured on the Feeling Good Podcast (#435, February 10th, 2025: ). You can learn more about Erik’s life and practice at https://www.instagram.com/erikburns.bloom/. Shalynn Burton, ACSW is TEAM therapist who practices virtually throughout California at the Feeling Good Institute. She specializes in anxiety, dating/ relationship, race/ethnic challenges, social skills, self-esteem, and more. To learn more, you can check her out at . Rachel Dillman is a singer / songwriter who creates music to help people build greater resilience. To learn more, check her out at . She asked me to emphasize that that her songs help her memorize and put into practice important concepts, like the Five Secrets of Effective Communication. In addition, she is a strong believer that songs can influence our thoughts and emotions. You can hear her songs such as Change How You Feel, Five Secrets, and more at the link above! Angel Poch is an immensely popular and talented TEAM CBT coach and teacher. She practices in Canada, and offers TEAM CBT training internationally through her many outstanding virtual classes and certification program for coaches. For more information, see Angela also wrote the songs: “Feeling Great,” and “Tell Me the Truth.” Thanks for listening today! Rhonda, Angela, Rachel, Shalynn, Erik, Heather, Brandon, Mark, and David /episode/index/show/feelinggood/id/37894750

464: Hopelessness: A New Approach 09/01/2025

464: Hopelessness: A New Approach Hopelessness: A New Approach Featuring Mike Christensen Often, therapists are drawn to become specialists in the very area where they once suffered and felt most vulnerable. In Mike’s case, he describes his own feelings of failure, betrayal, bitterness and hopelessness in his early career, and how he found his way to become a star in the TEAM therapy firmament. Today, he describes a breakthrough approach in the treatment of hopelessness as well, based on the A = Assessment of Resistance portion of TEAM. Mike began by saying that treating hopelessness is always a challenge. . . in fact, I can vividly remember when I felt hopeless! And of course, part of the challenge is the fear that hopeless patients may try to take their own lives. This is the “dark side” of clinical practice, and it is not often talked about because of the terror it strikes in the hearts of mental health professionals. Mike started out with a bit of his traumatic personal history. He explained that he once owned and ran a bicycle shop in Canada when he was in his mid- to late-twenties. “There was a fellow businessman in my town who was a bit older than me and somebody I really looked up to. He was successful, had a beautiful family, was well respected in the community and had some wonderful friends. One day I got a phone call from my wife and she said to me: ‘Did you hear what happened to John? She went on to tell me that it was shocking and terrible because he was somebody who enjoyed hunting. One day he went out to the family cabin and took his shotgun and took his own life. Mike said that at his funeral, “I can remember it like it was yesterday hearing his daughter's voice when she spoke and those words that she said. “Daddy, why were you so sad?” “A number of years later we had moved on, sold the business and our home and moved to another town to work in an organization supporting people. I had done my degree in theology with focus on youth and counseling and was working with young families. Unfortunately there were some real difficulties in the situation and it did not turn out very well after a little over a year. He felt betrayed, and ended up with no job. He was now in his mid to late-30s, and got a job in a hardware store. “I was really struggling with the sense of confusion, frustration, depression and hopelessness. Even though I had a supportive family, and had been successful in many areas of my life. He recounts, “One day I looked in the mirror and as I was having those thoughts of hopelessness I was reminded of John, my business colleague who had taken his own life 10 years earlier and I thought about my 2 young daughters. I could hear John’s daughter's voice: “Daddy why were you so sad” in my head and I thought I have to get some help” “My wife is a nurse and has a very wise family physician, Dr Mariette deBruin, who is incredibly skilled at empathy. Fortunately, she had been at a mental health conference earlier that year and heard this brilliant psychiatrist share a powerful approach to treating depression without medication. That psychiatrist was Dr David Burns. She suggested I get a hold of the book, Feeling Good, and that was the start of my recovery in 2006. I went back to grad school to do my Masters in Counseling Psychology and then attended my first workshop with Dr. Burns in 2009.” Looking back, I realized that hopelessness was actually my best friend. I was in a tremendous amount of pain. Here were some of the positives I discovered in my feelings of hopelessness: In my previous work, I’d been hurt badly, stabbed in the back. My hopelessness was my way of punishing the people who’d hurt me. I was saying, “Look at me. I’m a broken shell.” I felt like this gave me some value. . . as well as a sense of revenge.” I had placed a lot of value in my success in my life, three beautiful kids, and a great athletic career (biking), and my hopelessness protected me from the disappointment of dashed dreams in my new career. I felt I was being realistic. Hopelessness validated how severe my problems were. Hope trivialized it. When I'm working with practicum students or interns that are early in their counseling or therapy career, one of the greatest fears that they have is that one of their clients or patients will take their own life. Sadly, when you go into this line of work the reality is that at some point, someone we work with in some capacity will experience that level of hopelessness and so I have to inform them that “suicide is not if, but when.” This is why it's so critical for us to know how to work with it. He explained that “Hopelessness validated how I felt. People were all trying to cheer me up. That’s the WORST thing you can do. “My TEAM training was pointing me in the opposite direction. Validating it and acknowledging it took the pressure off of it and began the process of bringing about tremendous relief.” We discussed the power and value of Positive Reframing, even with the hopeless patient, as well as the value of empathy. He said the Positive Reframing shows that “you totally get what this is like for me.” The positive reframe serves as our most profound empathy tool. By enabling us to perceive the world through the eyes of our clients or patients, it eliminates their sense of isolation. The hopelessness shows something beautiful and awesome about you. He recalls his early training in TEAM, and the immense value of the Externalization of Voices and Feared Fantasy work he did with David to challenge his negative thoughts, including: I really AM a failure. David must be thinking that I’m an embarrassment to him. David is also thinking, “I can’t believe I let you on this podcast.” We illustrated the Externalization of Voices and Feared Fantasy live on the podcast, including the blow-away Acceptance Paradox. Because of that training, “I am no longer afraid of failure!” Thanks so much for joining us today! Mike, David and Rhonda /episode/index/show/feelinggood/id/37911125

463: The Perfectionism Webinar, Part 2 of 2 08/25/2025

462: The Perfectionism Webinar, Part 1 of 2 08/18/2025

461: Ask David: Perfectionism, Procrastination, and More! 08/11/2025

461: Ask David: Perfectionism, Procrastination, and More! Ask David: How to Stop Giving a Crap Motivating a Procrastinator . . . and More The answers to today’s questions are brief and were written prior to the show. Listen to the podcast for a more in-depth discussion of each question. Today’s questions. 1. Chris has a question about Positive Reframing and the Magic Dial. 2. Joe asks: What method would be best to stop giving a crap? 3. Ollie asks: How do you motivate a procrastinating patient to do the hard work of facing the task they’ve been putting off? 4. Owen asks: Should I complete a full Daily Mood Log each day? 5. Owen also asks: Is it okay to copy the positive reframing from a previous DML when relevant? 1. Chris asks about Positive Reframing and the Magic Dial. Hi David! I'm currently on my third re-read of "Feeling Great" and want to thank you for the positive changes and progress I have experienced in my life as a result of the techniques and information present in the book. My question is, when you use positive reframing, and identify all the advantages of a negative thought, but still decide, "Hey I would still like to reduce my suffering, in spite of all these good things. But I would love to keep the advantages too." Does this mean my conviction for change is not strong enough? Or is this when I should transition to the magic dial technique and try to keep the best of both worlds ? Thank you in advance, Christian David’s reply Thanks, do the Magic Dial and you can have it both ways. However, keep this in mind, or perhaps discover it later on. Once you start to challenge your thoughts successfully, and your belief in your negative thoughts diminishes substantially, you may decide to lower your feelings even further, possibly all the way to zero. And at that point, you’re probably ready for Relapse Prevention Training as described in the book. The Feeling Great app is free this summer if you’re in the US, so that might help you along the trail if needed. Warmly, David Can I use this as an Ask David question on one of our Ask podcasts? d Christian responds Hello David, Thank you for your in depth response, that's really handy. Part of me is really hoping I'll want to lower my ratings even further, but I think as you have outlined many times, honoring my resistance is important if I want to get to that point. It's weird isn't it, I know at an intellectual level I want these things to happen, but at the gut level part of me is still holding on. I would love to use the app, however I'm based in the UK and it isn't available to me, I saw on the FAQ on the website that it may be getting released in other parts of the world soon ? I also hope there will be more and more TEAM-CBT therapists available in the UK in future too ! Absolutely, I would love for my question to be featured in the podcast ! Warm Regards, Christian 2. Joe asks: What method would be best to stop giving a crap? Hey Dr. Burns, Your two most recent webinars have been very helpful, especially Overcoming Perfectionism, yet I still struggle hard with perfectionism. [To be specific, I put a video out there that people enjoyed (internally) and that I spent a month on, only to get mostly ignored, and I feel defeated.] What method would be best to stop giving a crap? Thanks! Joe David’s Reply As I have said so often, I don’t recommend “methods” for “problems.” I use TEAM, a process. I sometimes have the same problem with media interviews. I am often asked to give three tips on this or that problem, like gaining self-esteem or whatever. For example, a Chinese interviewer asked for “tips” on overcoming depression, like spending more time in nature or more time with friends and the people you care about. I am not happy about such questions, as my answer is that I’m a no tips please type of guy. I have developed many powerful processes for dealing with a variety of common problems. For example, for individual mood problems I find it extremely useful to start out with a partially completed Daily Mood Log, and for a relationship problem a partially completed Relationship Journal can lead to some fantastic and revealing work. But as far as general “tips” for not “giving a crap” if you’re struggling with perfectionism, I can only quote what the Buddha said nearly 2,500 years ago: “General tips suck! Give me something specific and real, please!” Best, david 3. How can you motivate someone who procrastinates? Dear David, I have a question but first I'd like to tell you and the team just how much I'm loving the app. Especially since you gave the AI a voice so now we can speak with it rather than typing out responses. Now it feels so quick and easy. Sometimes, I find it can be hard to motivate myself to do the self-help work but talking to the app makes the process effortless. It really does feel like having a friend who's got your best interest at heart, and they're available to talk to you whenever you need them. My question is about the role of therapists when it comes to patient motivation. I was hoping you could clarify why when patients present with anxiety, we know they will predictably resist doing exposure, but as a therapist it is necessary to press the matter. However, when working with a procrastinating patient, they will almost always show similar process resistance (to doing whatever it is they're procrastinating about), but your recommendation (as far as I understand it) is not to push them to do anything. Not to help motivate them to do the hard work. Is there a reason for this difference, or have I misunderstood entirely? Warmest regards, Ollie David’s Reply I can make this an Ask David question, and thanks. Appreciate the kind comments. As a therapist working with anxiety or depression, I work out the Outcome and Process Resistance before trying to “help.” So, the depressed patient must agree to homework, and the anxious patient must agree to exposure, in order for us to work together on those problems. This is called Dangling the Carrot, Gentle Ultimatum, and Sitting with Open Hands and sometimes with Fallback Position at the end. If a patient wants help with procrastination, they must agree to the five-minute rule, to get started at a specific time today, even if they don’t feel motivated. I see it as the same thing: making the patient accountable and giving the patient free will to decide what they are willing to do—or not willing to do. I would never try to motivate a procrastinating patient! That’s not on the menu. However, I can help them get started if they need help, but I the first five things they have to do into simple things taking 15 seconds each, like sit in my chair might be the first step in organizing you desk. Then reaching for a piece of paper that needs filing. Etc. Five minutes work of little things. You might want to listen to / search the podcasts for this process. We’ll mention a bit more on the podcast. Warmly, david If I missed it, try again! 4. Owen asks: Should I complete a full Daily Mood Log each day? Hi Dr. Burns, Thank you again for all the incredible content you've been sharing—both the Feeling Good podcast and your Feeling Great videos. You’re so engaging and natural on camera, it’s hard to believe you were ever camera-shy! The Ask David segments are always a highlight of my Mondays. I just had two quick questions about the Daily Mood Log. I often find it takes me several hours to complete one fully, including the positive reframing. Should I aim to complete a full log each day for maximum benefit, or is it okay to work through one gradually over several days? I often get unrelated negative thoughts while still working on a previous log, which means I can't get to the new ones right away. David’s Reply Hi Owen, Yes, you can spread it out for sure. david 5. Owen asks: To speed things up, is it okay to copy positive reframing from a previous DML when relevant, or is it better to start fresh each time? Thanks so much in advance, Owen (assumed name) David’s Reply Hi Owen, Yes, you can use previous PR! Will include your questions at the upcoming Ask David podcast. Can we use your first name? david At our next Ask David, we’ll start out with this question: 1. Zainab asks: Is friendship a basic human need? What do you think? Yes? No? Maybe? We did a survey among our group in preparation for the next Ask, and it was two “no’s” (Matt and David) and one “yes” (Rhonda). So stay tuned next week for the discussion of this question that comes up often in different disguises. For example, we often hear heated proclamations on whether love is an adult human “need.” What do you think about that question? Thanks for listening today! Matt, Rhonda, and David /episode/index/show/feelinggood/id/37745410

460: Ask David: The Fear of Happiness! 08/04/2025

460: Ask David: The Fear of Happiness! Ask David-- The Fear of Happiness! Although we had five questions for today’s Ask David episode, we spend the entire podcast on the first question from a man with an intense fear of happiness. He wrote: How can I use exposure to overcome my fear of happiness? Hi David, How would you do exposure for the fear of happiness? Whenever I feel happy I immediately feel afraid because I had a very strict religious upbringing where many harmless forms of fun and enjoyment were completely forbidden. Even though I'm no longer a religious believer, the fear remains. Feeling good then makes me afraid, anxious and insomniac. This often goes on for days after something good happens and it almost seems as if I AM being punished after all! How can I recover when feeling good makes me feel so bad? Love your work and all that you do. Best regards, Tomas David’s reply As I have said on numerous occasions, I do NOT recommend “methods” (like exposure) for “problems” (like your “fear of happiness.”) I think your problem is very treatable, but I work with patients systematically, and that doesn’t mean starting out with a “method,” like exposure or any other method. I use a step by step approach, using T = Testing, E – Empathy, A = Assessment of Resistance, and M = Methods in a sequence. In addition, when I work with anxiety, I always incorporate these four approaches with every patient I work with: The Motivational Model: I bring Outcome and Process Resistance to conscious awareness and melt them away, if possible, using a variety of TEAM CBT approaches. The Cognitive Model: This involves a well-done Daily Mood Log to identify and challenge the distorted negative thoughts at one moment in time. The Exposure Model: Facing your fears, or testing them with an experiment. This is frightening, but required of every anxious patient. The Hidden Emotion Model: This is based on the idea that only “nice” people struggle with anxiety, with only a few exceptions, and that an unacknowledged problem is often hiding right behind the anxiety. The cure requires the Detective Step: identifying what the hidden emotion or feeling is. The Action Step: Expressing the suppressed feeling and or dealing with the problem you are avoiding. Your fear of happiness is an interesting problem for sure. One of my favorite movies, “Babette’s Feast,” involves this theme. If you want some help, you could send me a partially completed Daily Mood Log. You will discover that you are the only one who is doing the punishing! It is that belittling, intimidating voice in your own head that is causing 100% of your suffering. I look forward to helping you challenge those voices! In the meantime, I’ll add this to the latest Ask David podcast questions, in the hopes you might send the DML, and then Rhonda and I can comment in greater depth on the live program. Best, david Tomas kindly sent a Daily Mood Log, which you can see if you As you can see, the Upsetting Event is simply “studying mathematics,” something he loves. However, he has the belief that if he allows himself to enjoy this or any activity, something terrible will happen to him. He traces this to a strict religious upbringing, and perhaps also to bullying he endured as a kid. You can see that this is intensely upsetting to him. If you look you will see that in 8 of the 9 categories of emotions on his Daily Mood Log (DML), he scores in the range of 80 to 100, which is intense and severe to extreme. The only emotion category that is not extremely elevated is the anger cluster, which he rated at only 40. You can see as well that his negative thoughts all involve the theme of punishment and destruction if he allows himself to feel happiness and enjoyment of life, or if he advances himself in life. In some of the emails he sent me, he traces this back to being bullied when young. . . possibly by kids who were jealous of his high IQ. As mentioned above, I don’t throw methods (like exposure) at people based on a problem or diagnosis (in his case a phobia, the fear of happiness.) I also mentioned that I go through the T E A M model in a sequence, starting with Testing and Empathy, followed by the Assessment of Resistance and culminating in Methods. In addition, I always treat anxious patients with four powerful models, including the Motivational Model, the Cognitive Model, the Exposure Model, and the Hidden Emotion Model. I described these models above. The Motivational Model The Outcome Resistance has to do with the fact that Tomas may resist treatment because of his fear of the consequences of successfully achieving happiness. We will deal with that with Positive Reframing, including the Miracle Cure Question, the Magic Button, Positive Reframing, and the Magic Dial. In addition, we’ll have to deal with Process Resistance. At some point, we will have to use exposure techniques, and we will want to find out if he’s WILLING to do exposure even though it may be extremely anxiety provoking at first. We can dangle the carrot, letting him know that we anticipate a positive outcome, but also understand that facing his worst fears may be terrifying at first, and very uncomfortable. I will not try to persuade him to use any of the many versions of Exposure. He will have to persuade me that he’s willing to do it. I suspect he will be, because he is asking for exposure, but if he says he wants to be treated without exposure, I will have to let him know I am not a good choice as a therapist for him! That’s because I don’t know how to defeat any form of anxiety without exposure. Of course, I cannot treat Tomas, or anyone, through an Ask David, but can only make teaching points. But I am teaching self-help techniques that have been helpful to many people. In an email, I asked him the Magic Button question, and he said he didn’t think he’d push it. This indicates some understandable resistance that has to be dealt with. Positive Reframing is one way to deal with Outcome Resistance. The goal is not only deeper empathy but also helping patients “see” that the negative thoughts and feelings they are struggling so desperately to overcome are actually positive in many ways. Once they “see” this, it is kind of a pleasant shock to the system, and their resistance to change typically disappears. Then we ask them to set goals for each negative feelings—a lower level of each feeling that would allow them to feel better and not lose all the wonderful positives we have discovered. That’s why it’s better NOT to push the Magic Button. To help Tomas or anyone see and list the positives in their negative thoughts and feelings, we ask two key questions about each one: What are some possible advantages, or benefits, of this negative thought or feeling? How might it help me? What does this negative thought or feeling show about me and my core values as a human being that’s positive and awesome? Typically, this leads to list of 10 to 20 positives that have three characteristics. To give you an example, his intense loneliness is an expression of his love for people and the great value he sees in meaningful relationships. And his anxiety serves to protect him from danger, and is therefore an expression of self-love. And his feelings of inferiority—in spite of his tremendous intelligence—show humility, which is not only a spiritual quality, but also can make a person of great intelligence more accessible, more vulnerable, and more attractive. Inferiority may also be an expression of his honesty and willingness to acknowledge his shortcomings, as well as his accountability. We could easily go on and on, and it might be a great exercise for you to try find the positives in several other of his negative thoughts and feelings by asking those two questions. Once my patient and I have listed 10 or more positives, I ask if these positives are True and valid? Powerful? Important? Nearly always, I get a resounding YES to each question. Then I use the Magic Dial to see what they might want to dial each negative feeling down to in the % Goal column of the Daily Mood Log. Is this Positive Reframing process straightforward? Easy? Not really. I make it look easy, because when I teach I want people to understand, but “seeing” these positives is, in reality, incredibly challenging for most people. In fact, You can see the Positive Reframing that Tomas completed on his own if you As you can see Tomas almost completely missed the boat when he tried to identify the positives in his negative thoughts and feelings. I mention this because it is a CRUCIAL step in TEAM CBT, and people often have a tremendously hard time “seeing” the positives in their negative thoughts and feelings. A big part of the reason is that society teaches us the opposite. In fact, negative feelings are Labeled as a bewildering array of more than 200 so-called “mental disorders” by the American Psychiatric Association in their “bible,” the DSM (Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders.) But here’s something even MORE surprising. Rhonda—a highly respected and admired TEAM CBT therapist and teacher—also struggles to find the positives during today’s podcast. Once someone has pointed them out, you can suddenly “see” them. But on your own, you may have a lot of trouble at first with Positive Reframing, which is anything but simple, but extraordinarily powerful once you “get it.” I recently told my weekly Tuesday psychotherapy training group at Stanford that TEAM CBT is extraordinarily difficult to learn and master—nearly always requiring years of study and practice—and perhaps the most challenging form of psychotherapy ever developed. She was angry and told me I’d have to do large controlled outcome studies to validate that claim! Yikes! I may be wrong, and there could be other more difficult forms of therapy, but I still believe what I’m saying because I see it every single day. Many of the most powerful and helpful concepts, such as the four “Great Deaths” of the “self” for the therapist and for the patient in TEAM, and the Acceptance Paradox, and more are hard to learn! But worth it, IF you take the time to learn this method. And if you wish to use TEAM CBT, on yourself (for self-help) or with your patients (if you’re a therapist) you will have much greater success after you master this powerful but elusive skill. The Cognitive Model After Rhonda and I worked with Positive Reframing, we went on to the technique that usually starts the M = Methods section, called “Explain the Distortions.” This powerful method includes answering three questions about one or several of the distortions you can find in one of the thoughts you want to work on first. First, select the thought and identify all the distortions in it, listing them by abbreviations in the Distortion column on your Daily Mood Log. For example, if it is an example of All-or-Nothing you can put AON in that column. And you can put OG for Overgeneralization, and so forth. Often, you will find five or even ten distortions in a single negative thought. Let’s say you work on, “If I’m happy, I’ll be destroyed.” This alarming thought includes AON; LAB, FT, DP, and ER. And it’s also a Hidden SS. Choose the distortion you want to work on first. Let’s say it’s Fortune Telling (FT). Why is this distortion, FT, considered a thinking error in general? Why does the FT distortion your specific thought pretty much make the thought unreasonable? In other words, Why does the FT in your thought NOT map onto reality? And finally, why is the FT is this thought unfair? As an exercise, turn off the podcast for a moment and write down your answers to those three questions. Once you’re done, you can check the answers at the end of the show notes. It’s a great skill to practice and learn, because it will usually make it really easy for you to generate positive thoughts that satisfy the necessary and sufficient conditions for emotional change. Do you know what they are? Write them down before you look at the answers at the end of the show notes. Just take a guess, but WRITE SOMETHING DOWN before you look! But DON’T look until you’ve written down your own answers! Hey, did you peek, or did you write down the answers first? I get it! And I forgive you! However, you missed out on a great opportunity for learning if you skipped the written exercise. Or, to put it positively, I try to make the exercises fun and interesting. And if you do them, you’ll learn some cool and helpful things rapidly. It’s like riding a bicycle. You’ve got to get on and ride to learn how to do it! But here’s what’s really interesting. You’ll notice that Rhonda, once again, really struggles with this exercise during the podcast. Although I think of Explain the Distortions as a really easy TEAM CBT method, experience with real people has over and over again provided abundant evidence that it’s NOT easy for many, or possibly most, people at first. So, what’s the point? Here’s the point. If you’re a therapist, this method is powerful, and will richly reward you for the time and effort you spend in learning how to do it! But you cannot take it for granted if you want to use it in an actual therapy session. And if you are simply looking for self-help, the exact same thing is true: the method is incredibly helpful and well worth some time and effort to “get it!” In addition, to challenging the obviously distorted thoughts on his Daily Mood Log, what other methods might be helpful to Tomas? The Exposure Model Well, there are a great many, including the Exposure techniques he was asking for. For example, he could intentionally make himself happy, and then fantasize some horrible punishment using Cognitive Flooding. The idea would be to make himself as anxious as possible for as long as possible, until he finally gets bored with the fantasy, which will definitely happen eventually, and the anxiety disappears. Exposure is terrifying at first, and it is supposed to be. That’s whey and how it works! The Hidden Emotion Model There are many helpful variations on the Exposure front, and the Hidden Emotion Model might also be key. Is there some problem or issue in his life that Tomas is not dealing with? The Class on this technique in the (now entirely free for the summer of 2025 app) Feeling Great app has many details and exercises and examples to show how this mind-blowing technique works. That’s it for today’s podcast. I want to thank you, Tomas, for providing us with a fascinating problem, and all of you who send in your questions. We are SO GRATEFUL that you are bouncing back, Rhonda, after your ordeal with radiation therapy for your lymphoma, and send you all our love and best wishes for joyful and complete healing and liberation from your nightmare! Warmly, Rhonda and David Answers Here is my answer to first exercise on the necessary and sufficient conditions for emotional change from a positive thought. . The necessary condition for emotional change: The Positive Thought must be 100% correct. The sufficient condition for emotional change: The Positive Thought must reduce your belief in the disturbing negative thought. Sometimes you’ll want to reduce it all the way to zero. Sometimes, that’s not necessary, especially with Should Statements. Here are my answers to the three questions about Explain the Distortions above. In general, FT is a thinking error when you are making arbitrary alarming predictions without strong evidence that supports those predictions. In particular, there is no evidence that supports the claim that people who feel happy rapidly become the victims of some horrific disaster or punishment. This thought is very unrealistic because the ONLY punishment that Tomas has experienced is the result of his own negative thoughts! This thought is unfair because it puts Tomas in handcuffs so he will be unable to enjoy his life. /episode/index/show/feelinggood/id/37431025

459: Personal Work with our Beloved Rhonda, Part 2 07/28/2025

459: Personal Work with our Beloved Rhonda, Part 2 Part 2 of Our Personal Work with Rhonda The Surprising Conclusion of Rhonda's Session with Matt and David Last week, you heard Part 1 of our personal work--a single two hour therapy session--with Rhonda, focusing on her recent shocking diagnosis of a cancerous and potentially fatal lymphatic tumor in her neck. We did initial T = Testing and E = Empathy. Today we do the A = Assessment of Resistance and the M = Methods, and of course, the final assessment of symptoms and teaching points. A = Assessment of Resistance How DO you help someone facing a terrifying diagnosis of cancer? What's the best method to use? How do you cheer them up, or is it impossible to do so and foolish to try? Or is there no correct answer to these questions? Well, there IS a "correct" answer, at least according to the gospel of TEAM. You ASK the person if they want help, or if listening is enough. And if they want help, you ask them what they want help with. This personalizes the treatment and brings it alive for the patient. Rhonda said she had difficulties accepting help, and extreme fears of being a burden on others. She specifically wanted to stop comparing herself to her friend, Jack, who has so far survived for four years after a severe diagnosis of disseminated cancer requiring whole body radiation. She also wanted help feeling less guilty about her anger and her complaint about pain and side effects. Because we didn't want the session to run overly long, we did some streamlined Positive Reframing, listing 11 positives embbeded in her negative thoughts and feelings, such as "I have no right to complain." What does each negative thought and feeling show about her that's positive and awesome? And what were some benefits of them? The we asked Rhonda about her goals for each negative feeling on her DML, which you can see if you As you can see, her desired reductions for most of her negative feelings were only modest, perhaps indicating some acceptance of her situation and the negative feelings that seemed inevitable. However, this can sometimes indicate some residual resistance that has not been addressed. We'll have to wait and see what happens next to find out! M = Methods We worked with Rhonda using several methods, especially the Externalization of Voices with frequent role reversal until she got to huge. My memory of the session is that the Counter-Attack Technique compared with the Acceptance Paradox got her to HUGE wins. You can see Rhonda’s ratings for each negative feeling at the end of the session if you And were these rating genuine? Or was she just being "helpful" to us for the sake of the podcast? At the end, Rhonda estimate her gratitude was 1,000,000%! Thank you, Rhonda. We all love you for your incredibly important gift to all of us today, teaching us how to love, and to laugh, when we all have to face our inevitable fate of letting go and experiencing the "true Great Death" of the "self." And we are 1,000,000% grateful to your wonderful doctors at Stanford that this cancer will NOT get the last word! Teaching Points The first take home message is that you can’t effectively treat anyone with any kind of emotional problem without asking them to write down their negative thoughts. If you do this, you can find out exactly what's going on, and you'll know the only real cause of all the negative feelings that person is struggling with. That’s why you can’t treat depression with “tips” or advice, like “spend time in nature,” or “spend time with friends.” That’s just junk and cheap advice and it will not work, above and beyond a possible placebo effect. Second we don’t treat problems, like “cancer” or "depression" or any “mental disorder” with packages developed for just that problem. We treat people who are struggling, and find out what their negative thoughts are! You CANNOT know what someone is thinking without asking them. Everyone’s thoughts are different and unique. That's why packages, including ALL the so-called "schools" of therapy, will ALWAYS fall short. There are, of course, common themes, like “I’m not good enough,” but we all put our own unique spins on these themes when we’re hurting. And third, measure what you're trying to treat, with brief accurate scales worded in the hear and now at the start and end of each session. That's the ONLY way to know if you've been effective. And finally, events no matter how traumatic, do NOT cause feelings. Only your thoughts can have impact on how you feel about yourself, other people, and the world. That statement is not intended to blame you for how you feel, but to liberate you from the traps you've fallen into. Thanks for listening today! Matt, Rhonda, and David /episode/index/show/feelinggood/id/37421615

458: Personal Work with our Beloved Rhonda, Part 1 07/21/2025

458: Personal Work with our Beloved Rhonda, Part 1 Part 1 of Our Personal Work with Rhonda The doctor said I have cancer! Are feelings of depression, fear, anger, hopelessness, and more inevitable if you have experienced a severely traumatic event? Nearly all human beings would say it IS inevitable. But are they right? If your doctor just told you that you have a serious form of cancer, is it possible--or even desirable--to avoid intense distress and despair? Today, Matthew May MD and I sit down with our beloved Rhonda who was diagnosed roughly six weeks ago with a cancerous follicular lymphoma. This is a type of lymphatic cancer that allows for a reasonably long life expectancy, but is almost universally fatal. With one exception—if you find and treat it super early. And that is where Rhonda finds herself. And today, she received her (hopefully) 12th and final radiation treatment to her neck, right under her right ear. She was told that the probability of a cure is 95%, but the effects, including painful side effects, of the radiation would be cumulative and increasing for a while after the series of treatments has been concluded. And she IS in considerable discomvort. Which was good news, great news, actually, for all of us! Still, it’s been a rocky and highly emotional road for Rhonda. So Matt and I sat down with her early this morning to see if we, with the help of TEAM CBT, might be able to bring her some accurate empathy and comfort. In the session, Matt and I went through the T E A M sequence with Rhonda. T = Testing You can see Rhonda’s initial Brief Mood Survey if you As you can see from her Brief Mood Survey, which was completed before the session began, she was only mildly elevated in depression, anxiety, and anger, but her positive feelings of happiness were very low (only 8 our of 20, with 0 being not happiness at all in any category and 20 being the highest possible happiness. in all categories.) E = Empathy However, as Matt and I empathized with Rhonda, we reviewed her partially completed Daily Mood Log, which you can see if you This tool painted a radically different picture. Rhonda's scores in nearly all categories were extremely elevated, indicating about the most intense feelings of depression, anxiety, guilt, shame, inadequacy, hopelessness, frustration, anger, and shock, as you can imagine. She was also moderately self-conscious and embarrassed. Four radically important question came to mind: What was causing these intensely negative and almost unbearable feelings? Is there any realistic hope of reducing them during today's session? And if you did want to "help," how in the world would you attempt to do this? And how much "help" could you realistically hope for? If you're serious about these topics, I would strongly recommend that you take a piece of paper and jot down your answers to these questions right now, before you listen to the rest of session. Then, after you listen to the conclusion next week, you can compare what happened with your own ideas about the situation. , During the empathy phase, Matt and I used the Five Secrets of Effective Communication to understand exactly how Rhonda was think, and how she was really feeling inside. We also did a What-If / Downward Arrow Technique to find out what she was the most afraid of. If you haven't already listened to that portion of our work with her. What do you think she was most afraid of in having cancer? And why, do you suppose, she was feeling so guilty? And so angry? We also explored the impact of the side effects of the radiation therapy, and the impact of the cancer on her personal and family relationships, the errors others made in trying to "help" when she was feeling down, and her fears of the future. At the end of the empathy phase, we asked Rhonda to grade us in three categories: How well did David and Matt understand your thoughts? How well did David and Matt understand how you were feeling inside? How well did David and Matt so in creating an atmosphere of trust, warmth, and acceptance? If you're a mental health professional and you do psychotherapy, I have another question for you before we continue: What % of your patients do you ask these three questions part way through your sessions? Raise your hand if the answer is "most, if not all, of my sessions." Yikes! I don't see many hands going up! I don't want to upset you, and you may not take me seriously, but you might be missing the boat! At any rate, Rhonda gave us a triple A +. That's definitely a passing grade, and she gave us the green light to go on to the final two steps of the TEAM session(/the A and the M steps), which you'll hear in their entirety on our very next podcast! Thanks for listening today! And make sure you tune in next week for the awesome conclusion of our work with our beloved Rhonda! Rhonda, Matt, and David /episode/index/show/feelinggood/id/37421520

457: Ask David: Chasing, Sadness as Celebration, and Autism 07/14/2025

457: Ask David: Chasing, Sadness as Celebration, and Autism Ask David: Chasing, Commitment Problems Sadness as Celebration Is Autism Increasing? The answers to today’s questions are brief and were written prior to the show. Listen to the live discussion for a more in-depth discussion of each question. Today’s live podcast discussion with Rhonda, Matt, and David was very energetic and hopefully inspiring for all of you! Today’s questions. Aurora asks about a dating problem—the guy I’m dating doesn’t want to “commit.” What should I do? Ana asks: I’m 48 now, and about 25 years ago, I was diagnosed with infertility—a devastating moment for someone who had dreamed of becoming a mother since childhood. Through therapy, prayer, and especially your book Feeling Good, I’ve done deep healing. I truly feel at peace most of the time. My life is full and joyful. But I’ve noticed that certain dates—especially Mother’s Day and Christmas—still bring sadness. Not overwhelming or constant, but a familiar ache that surprises me even now. I use my CBT tools and move through it, but part of me wonders: should I be “over this” by now? Brittany asks: Is autism really on the increase? The following questions will be included in the next Ask David podcast. We did not have time to include them today. Ollie asks: How do you motivate a procrastinating patient to do the hard work of facing the task they’ve been putting off? Owen asks: Should I complete a full Daily Mood Log each day? Owen asks: Is it okay to copy the positive reframing from a previous DML when relevant? Zainab asks: Is friendship a basic human need? 1. Aurora asks about a dating problem—the guy I’m dating doesn’t want to “commit.” What should I do. Hi Doctor Burns, I have been dating a guy exclusively (both only seeing each other) but he doesn’t bring up wanting commitment to being in a relationship. He wants to see me in all his free time but tends to plan dates last minute if he does and assumes we will hang out at his place when we get together. He knows I’d like a relationship but said we are working towards that and that it’s putting unnecessary pressure when I mentioned it. I’m not sure how long to wait and asking directly for what I’d like (him planning dates in advance) doesn’t really help as he quickly got defensive and I then went to using the five secrets. Any advice? Thank you for everything you do, I love your books and podcast so much. They have truly changed my life. You and Rhonda make me smile every day that I listen. If you do by chance use my question would you not include my name? Aurora David’s response Yes we can address this during an Ask David. It’s great timing since we just had several podcasts on dating questions, Quick answer, and we’ll go deeper in the podcast, but it sounds like you’re being a bit too available and letting him use you and take you for granted. Remember the Burns Rule: “People ONLY want what they CAN’T get, and NEVER want what they CAN get!” So being more unavailable, letting him know you have other plans (which may simply be not to see him at the last minute), all the while being sweet. When he says he is not interested in a commitment just now, you can use the Five Secrets of Effective Communication, and play the role of “shrink,” not “available lady.” Ask him about that, express curiosity, encourage him to talk. These methods (5 secrets) are an art form, spelled out pretty clearly in Feeling Good Together. Pressing him for a commitment is guaranteed to drive him away. You want HIM to be the chaser, and YOU to be the chased. Also, a Daily Mood Log on thoughts that make you anxious about him, and working toward letting go of “needing” him. Warmly, David Aurora responds to David This is amazing Dr. Burns, thank you so very much! I am so humbled you took the time to read my email, use my questions, and give such a helpful reply. And yes how about the name Aurora! Thank you and Rhonda. Your work has truly changed my life and I am so deeply grateful for all you do. Aurora 2. Ana asks about living with infertility. Hi Dr. Burns, I hope you’re well. I had the honor of corresponding with you and Dr. Rhonda last year about my relationship with my mother, and I’m still so grateful for your generosity and the space you gave me on the podcast. Today I write about a different part of my story. I’m 48 now, and about 25 years ago, I was diagnosed with infertility—a devastating moment for someone who had dreamed of becoming a mother since childhood. Through therapy, prayer, and especially your book Feeling Good, I’ve done deep healing. I truly feel at peace most of the time. My life is full and joyful. But I’ve noticed that certain dates—especially Mother’s Day and Christmas—still bring sadness. Not overwhelming or constant, but a familiar ache that surprises me even now. I use my CBT tools and move through it, but part of me wonders: should I be “over this” by now? Or is it normal that something so deep still stirs, even after years of healing? I sometimes question whether I’m simply very good at coping (I’m an Enneagram 3—always performing strength) or if there’s still more I need to process, like the moment both of my sisters-in-law announced their pregnancies during the darkest part of my grief 😓💔. But then again, maybe occasional sadness is just part of living with love and loss. Thank you for reading—and for your work, which has meant so much to me. Warmly, Ana David’s Response Hi Ana, My website is a little clunky now, but if you search “Sadness as Celebration” you may find one or more podcasts that address this concept. In simple terms, your sadness is an expression of your love, and your core values as a human being, as a woman. So you might want to continue to experience that occasional sadness forever. Of course, if it is having a negative effect on your llfe, that would be different, but it doesn’t sound that way. Acceptance, with gratitude, could be one path. Could we use this on an Ask David, with your first name or possibly some other name? In other words, if you could press our Magic Button and “be over it,” would you REALLY want to press that button? What does your sadness say about you and your core values that’s positive, even awesome? Warmly, david Ana replies Dear Dr. Burns, Thank you so much for your kind and thoughtful response. What you said makes so much sense — it’s so wise, so true, and also so simple. I appreciate it deeply. The idea that my sadness is an expression of love and core values feels incredibly freeing. I only wish I didn’t feel guilty or “broken” when these feelings creep in from time to time. Your perspective helps me see them differently — not as setbacks, but as moments of connection with something I’ve loved dearly. Yes, please feel free to use this in an Ask David episode. I’d be honored. You’re welcome to use my first name, Ana. With gratitude, Ana David’s reply Thanks again, Ana. As an aside, you “got it,” I believe. Your sadness is an expression of your love, and likely also makes you more compassionate toward others. And more. The sadness you feel, arguably, is not a “defect,” or something to be defeated, but something beautiful that can be accepted and welcomed. If you think it is “too much,” you can write down your Negative Thoughts and look for distortions, of course. Warmly, david Rhonda suggested that we give the numbers of the podcasts that deal with the interesting topic of “Sadness as Celebration.” They include #s174, 252, 253, and 304 (this last being my experience with loneliness and grief while driving across the Nevada desert as a medical student.) 3. Brittany asks if autism is on the increase? Hi Dr. Burns, I’ve noticed in the last few years the term autism being used much more commonly and now seems to be a broader term. I watched a show last night where an actual autism center was showing their test they use. It was pictures of people’s eyes and you had to guess if they were feeling sad, happy, frustrated, etc. They said autistic people have a hard time telling what others are thinking/feeling. Well I took the quiz and got half wrong. They also described autistic people as being awkward socially, having a hard time adjusting to new surroundings, disliking loud noises. Well that also describes me but by no means would I say I’m autistic. I think they are throwing personal preferences and social anxiety into the umbrella term autism. I know you did that podcast on ADHD where you said you don’t treat ADHD, you treat people. What are your thoughts on the way autism seems to be diagnosed these days? Of course I’m sure you would just treat whatever problem the person wanted to work on, not the so called disorder. But still, do you find it frustrating how often people are deemed to be autistic these days? -Brittany David’s reply I might be a bit autistic, too! Join the club. It's the latest thing, and super broad boundaries, just like you said. And like you said, I treat the person, not the so-called "mental disorder." Also, I did an informal study on shrinks, and they had no idea what patients were feeling even after a two + hour interview with the patient! Warmly, david PS I'll make this another ask David, it's a good one! Rhonda wrote: David: What do you think of putting the link to the autism facial recognition test in the show notes? Great idea, Rhonda, so here’s the link. Remember, we are not endorsing the validity or reliability of this scale, nor are we recommending it for any medical or psychological assessment! David Thanks for listening today! Matt, Rhonda, and David /episode/index/show/feelinggood/id/37374320

456: Ask David: The Fear of Being Alone or Abandoned. . . and More! 07/07/2025

456: Ask David: The Fear of Being Alone or Abandoned. . . and More! Ask David: The Fear of Being Abandoned Living with Someone Who's Depressed Can Someone Else's Depression Depress You! The answers to today’s questions are brief and were written prior to the show. Listen to the live discussion for a more in-depth discussion of each question. Today’s questions. Negar asks: How can I overcome my fear of being alone or being abandoned? Stan asks: What are your tips on living with someone suffering from anxiety or depression? They can sometimes be demanding or argumentative! Stan Asks: How can we protects ourselves from not feeling down during and after spending social time with anxious and / or depressed people because they express anxious or depressing thoughts to us. It seems to me that we must start to believe the distorted negative thoughts that the anxious or depressed person transmits to us, so we start to feel the same negative emotions the other person feels. 1. Negar asks: How can I overcome my fear of being alone or being abandoned? Thank you very much You know, doctor, one of the problems I have had since childhood was that I always worry about being alone and losing the people I love. My mind becomes conditioned and a lot of negative obsessive thoughts come to my mind, even the smallest irrelevant and random external events create a sign and increase stress But I will not stop trying But I am very eager to know what you think about the mind and the irrelevant and random patterns that it relates to negative events and how to get out of this cycle You can even put this as a podcast or clip on YouTube, I think it would be very welcome because I have seen many people who have this problem🙂😇 David’s response Hi Negar, Sure, we can have a question on the fear of being alone / abandoned, and the many ways of overcoming this problem. Copying Rhonda, my co-host. It is covered in detail in the first part of my book, Intimate Connections. Methods we can discuss include: Dailly Mood Log Empathy Positive Reframing Deserted Island Fantasy Cognitive Flooding Please Predicting Sheet Experimental Technique Examine the Evidence Downward Arrow / Identify Self-Defeating Belief(s) (SDB) Cost-Benefit Analysis for SDB Hidden Emotion Technique Externalization of Voices (with Acceptance Paradox, Self-Defense Paradigm, and CAT, or Counter-Attack Technique) Identify and Explain the Distortions Warmly, david Dear Dr Burns Thank you for all the effort you put into the podcasts, video clips and other material, which I find so helpful. They are a great addition to the books you have written. They are very inspiring and life changing in my case. I have two questions that I would be very grateful if you would discuss in one of your ask David podcasts, if you think they are worth discussing. 2. Stan ask about living with an anxious or depressed person who can sometimes be argumentative or demanding. Do you have any advice for family members or housemates that live with a person suffering from anxiety or depression. No one wants to make the situation worse and maybe there are some suggestions. I know it can be very difficult living with someone who is anxious or depressed. An anxious or depressed person might sometimes be very demanding or argumentative. They might also sit around doing almost nothing all day or they might have odd sleeping hours for example. They may make unreasonable requests or be overly sensitive and when hurt lash out at others for example. David’s Reply I would strongly recommend the podcast on “How to Help and How NOT to Help!” Will explain a bit more on the podcast. David 3. Transference of Negative Emotions? Why do we feel bad and how can we protects ourselves from not feeling down during and after spending social time with anxious and / or depressed people because they express anxious or depressing thoughts to us. It seems to me that we must start to believe the distorted negative thoughts that the anxious or depressed person transmits to us, so we start to feel the same negative emotions the other person feels. When this happens we might start to avoid contact with the other person which might make them feel worse. As always I would really appreciate your thoughts on the above two matters, if you think it is worth an Ask David question Thank you again. Kind regards Stan David’s Reply Negative feelings do not “transfer” between people. Only your own thoughts can affect the way you feel. Will explain more on the show! If you’ve been making the mistake of trying to “help,” it would make sense that you would feel upset, frustrated, maybe even angry. But it is your own dysfunctional way of interacting with the depressed or anxious person, and your own negative thoughts, that are 100% responsible for how you feel! But I will need to spell this out on the show! Thanks for listening today! Matt, Rhonda, and David /episode/index/show/feelinggood/id/37165255

Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy

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