Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy

This podcast features David D. Burns MD, author of "Feeling Good, The New Mood Therapy," describing powerful new techniques to overcome depression and anxiety and develop greater joy and self-esteem. For therapists and the general public alike!

465: The Music of TEAM 09/05/2025

465: The Music of TEAM The Music of TEAM-- A Little Different from the Music of REBT! There are many paradoxes in TEAM! That's part of what makes TEAM challenging, but also exciting. Do you know what the plural of paradox is? Paradise! Sometimes, music allows us to "see" or "get" something that pure thinking struggles with. Years ago, followers of the renowned but controversial Dr. Albert Ellis loved singing the famous and outrageous songs written by Dr. Ellis and featuring key ideas in the Rational Emotive Behavior Therapy (REBT) he created. They were popular because they captured his core messages, involving low frustration tolerance, whining and complaining, and more. Dr. Ellis wrote the words, and the music came from popular songs familiar to anyone, like Battle Hymn of the Republic, and many others. If you like, you can hear a brief interview with Dr. Ellis, and listen as he discusses the dire “need” for love and sings one of his songs about the need (demand) for love Although none of the REBT songs made the top list on the top ten charts, they brought tons of glee to his many fans, especially when the participants at his psychotherapy conferences would sing them together. His humorous music made it a little easier for some of us to recognize the absurdity in the intense “shoulds” we direct against ourselves when we fall short and a world that isn’t the way it “should” be, according to our narcissistic rules! Today, we hear some of the music of TEAM CBT which seems to be increasing in popularity recently. However, the themes are quite different from the cutting and sarcastic music of the Albert Ellis era. Instead, they tend to focus on some of the more tender and inspiring messages of TEAM CBT. For example, I’ve often described a key idea that I learned from my beloved cat, teacher, and friend, Obie: “When you no longer need to be special, the world becomes special.” The message focuses on the perfectionism and self-criticism that so many patients and therapists alike indulge in, criticizing themselves mercilessly for every error, failure, and shortcoming, thinking that if they work hard enough, they will achieve something tremendous and attain a lofty status of true “specialness.” You will hear the song, “Am I Special?” on today’s podcast. The lyrics of “Am I Special?” were written by Angela Poch, the music was written by Shalynn Burton. Angela Poch put together the virtual choir featuring Rachael, Shalynn, Brandon Vance, Eric Burns and Heather Clague. The Acceptance Paradox is at the core of that song and many TEAM CBT techniques—finding joy and enlightenment when you accept your shitty, below average self. And here’s the essence of the Acceptance Paradox: When you accept yourself exactly as you are, warts and all, everything suddenly changes. You perceive yourself and your world through new eyes, and you see that everything is actually quite different from the way you thought, and you experience a sense of freedom, liberation, and joy. David Burns, MD This is a paradox because total acceptance and total change appear to be exact opposites! But in fact, their the exact same thing! Along the same lines, the so-called "Great Death" of the "self" is actually the "Great Rebirth," or a great "waking up" from a trance. Much of today’s music revolves around those kinds of themes. And some of it focuses on the Five Secrets of Effective Communication and the Disarming Technique, which highlights another key paradox that I call the Law of Opposites: When someone criticizes you with an unfair and untrue criticism, you will the overwhelming urge to argue and defend yourself. If you give in to this urge—and nearly everybody does—you will actually PROVE that the criticism was actually 100% valid, and the critic will continue to attack and criticize you. That’s a Paradox! And here’s the other side of that paradox: If you immediately, humbly, and genuinely agree with a criticism that sounds unfair and untrue, you will instantly put the lie to it, and the criticism will suddenly realize that the criticism simply isn’t true. That’s also a Paradox. So much for the background, and some of the philosophy behind the music you’ll hear today. First, here are the performers you’ll hear in today’s podcast, with brief bio sketches: Mark Noble, PhD is a famed neuroscientist and recently certified TEAM CBT coach. Today, he sings three songs with guitar: Placebo, Mind Warp, and Song of My Self. You can contact him at [email protected] Heather Clague, MD is a psychiatrist and Level 5 Advanced Master TEAM therapist practicing in Oakland, California. Heather and her colleague, Brandon Vance, MD, are the originators of the immensely popular Feeling Great and Feeling Great app book clubs. For more information, got to . Brandon Vance, MD is also a psychiatrist and Level 4 Master TEAM therapist and song writer practicing in Oakland. For more information, go to . He works with Heather on a variety of immensely popular Feeling Great book and app clubs. Heather and Brandon sang the song Heather wrote, “TEAM Is Paradoxical.” In addition to singing, Heather plays the ukulele. Erik Burns is the son of David Burns, MD. He lives with his wife and son in Santa Cruz, California, and practices hypnosomatic therapy for individuals struggling with anxiety as well as those with gastrointestinal complaints. He was recently featured on the Feeling Good Podcast (#435, February 10th, 2025: ). You can learn more about Erik’s life and practice at https://www.instagram.com/erikburns.bloom/. Shalynn Burton, ACSW is TEAM therapist who practices virtually throughout California at the Feeling Good Institute. She specializes in anxiety, dating/ relationship, race/ethnic challenges, social skills, self-esteem, and more. To learn more, you can check her out at . Rachel Dillman is a singer / songwriter who creates music to help people build greater resilience. To learn more, check her out at . She asked me to emphasize that that her songs help her memorize and put into practice important concepts, like the Five Secrets of Effective Communication. In addition, she is a strong believer that songs can influence our thoughts and emotions. You can hear her songs such as Change How You Feel, Five Secrets, and more at the link above! Angel Poch is an immensely popular and talented TEAM CBT coach and teacher. She practices in Canada, and offers TEAM CBT training internationally through her many outstanding virtual classes and certification program for coaches. For more information, see Angela also wrote the songs: “Feeling Great,” and “Tell Me the Truth.” Thanks for listening today! Rhonda, Angela, Rachel, Shalynn, Erik, Heather, Brandon, Mark, and David /episode/index/show/feelinggood/id/37894750

464: Hopelessness: A New Approach 09/01/2025

464: Hopelessness: A New Approach Hopelessness: A New Approach Featuring Mike Christensen Often, therapists are drawn to become specialists in the very area where they once suffered and felt most vulnerable. In Mike’s case, he describes his own feelings of failure, betrayal, bitterness and hopelessness in his early career, and how he found his way to become a star in the TEAM therapy firmament. Today, he describes a breakthrough approach in the treatment of hopelessness as well, based on the A = Assessment of Resistance portion of TEAM. Mike began by saying that treating hopelessness is always a challenge. . . in fact, I can vividly remember when I felt hopeless! And of course, part of the challenge is the fear that hopeless patients may try to take their own lives. This is the “dark side” of clinical practice, and it is not often talked about because of the terror it strikes in the hearts of mental health professionals. Mike started out with a bit of his traumatic personal history. He explained that he once owned and ran a bicycle shop in Canada when he was in his mid- to late-twenties. “There was a fellow businessman in my town who was a bit older than me and somebody I really looked up to. He was successful, had a beautiful family, was well respected in the community and had some wonderful friends. One day I got a phone call from my wife and she said to me: ‘Did you hear what happened to John? She went on to tell me that it was shocking and terrible because he was somebody who enjoyed hunting. One day he went out to the family cabin and took his shotgun and took his own life. Mike said that at his funeral, “I can remember it like it was yesterday hearing his daughter's voice when she spoke and those words that she said. “Daddy, why were you so sad?” “A number of years later we had moved on, sold the business and our home and moved to another town to work in an organization supporting people. I had done my degree in theology with focus on youth and counseling and was working with young families. Unfortunately there were some real difficulties in the situation and it did not turn out very well after a little over a year. He felt betrayed, and ended up with no job. He was now in his mid to late-30s, and got a job in a hardware store. “I was really struggling with the sense of confusion, frustration, depression and hopelessness. Even though I had a supportive family, and had been successful in many areas of my life. He recounts, “One day I looked in the mirror and as I was having those thoughts of hopelessness I was reminded of John, my business colleague who had taken his own life 10 years earlier and I thought about my 2 young daughters. I could hear John’s daughter's voice: “Daddy why were you so sad” in my head and I thought I have to get some help” “My wife is a nurse and has a very wise family physician, Dr Mariette deBruin, who is incredibly skilled at empathy. Fortunately, she had been at a mental health conference earlier that year and heard this brilliant psychiatrist share a powerful approach to treating depression without medication. That psychiatrist was Dr David Burns. She suggested I get a hold of the book, Feeling Good, and that was the start of my recovery in 2006. I went back to grad school to do my Masters in Counseling Psychology and then attended my first workshop with Dr. Burns in 2009.” Looking back, I realized that hopelessness was actually my best friend. I was in a tremendous amount of pain. Here were some of the positives I discovered in my feelings of hopelessness: In my previous work, I’d been hurt badly, stabbed in the back. My hopelessness was my way of punishing the people who’d hurt me. I was saying, “Look at me. I’m a broken shell.” I felt like this gave me some value. . . as well as a sense of revenge.” I had placed a lot of value in my success in my life, three beautiful kids, and a great athletic career (biking), and my hopelessness protected me from the disappointment of dashed dreams in my new career. I felt I was being realistic. Hopelessness validated how severe my problems were. Hope trivialized it. When I'm working with practicum students or interns that are early in their counseling or therapy career, one of the greatest fears that they have is that one of their clients or patients will take their own life. Sadly, when you go into this line of work the reality is that at some point, someone we work with in some capacity will experience that level of hopelessness and so I have to inform them that “suicide is not if, but when.” This is why it's so critical for us to know how to work with it. He explained that “Hopelessness validated how I felt. People were all trying to cheer me up. That’s the WORST thing you can do. “My TEAM training was pointing me in the opposite direction. Validating it and acknowledging it took the pressure off of it and began the process of bringing about tremendous relief.” We discussed the power and value of Positive Reframing, even with the hopeless patient, as well as the value of empathy. He said the Positive Reframing shows that “you totally get what this is like for me.” The positive reframe serves as our most profound empathy tool. By enabling us to perceive the world through the eyes of our clients or patients, it eliminates their sense of isolation. The hopelessness shows something beautiful and awesome about you. He recalls his early training in TEAM, and the immense value of the Externalization of Voices and Feared Fantasy work he did with David to challenge his negative thoughts, including: I really AM a failure. David must be thinking that I’m an embarrassment to him. David is also thinking, “I can’t believe I let you on this podcast.” We illustrated the Externalization of Voices and Feared Fantasy live on the podcast, including the blow-away Acceptance Paradox. Because of that training, “I am no longer afraid of failure!” Thanks so much for joining us today! Mike, David and Rhonda /episode/index/show/feelinggood/id/37911125

463: The Perfectionism Webinar, Part 2 of 2 08/25/2025

462: The Perfectionism Webinar, Part 1 of 2 08/18/2025

461: Ask David: Perfectionism, Procrastination, and More! 08/11/2025

461: Ask David: Perfectionism, Procrastination, and More! Ask David: How to Stop Giving a Crap Motivating a Procrastinator . . . and More The answers to today’s questions are brief and were written prior to the show. Listen to the podcast for a more in-depth discussion of each question. Today’s questions. 1. Chris has a question about Positive Reframing and the Magic Dial. 2. Joe asks: What method would be best to stop giving a crap? 3. Ollie asks: How do you motivate a procrastinating patient to do the hard work of facing the task they’ve been putting off? 4. Owen asks: Should I complete a full Daily Mood Log each day? 5. Owen also asks: Is it okay to copy the positive reframing from a previous DML when relevant? 1. Chris asks about Positive Reframing and the Magic Dial. Hi David! I'm currently on my third re-read of "Feeling Great" and want to thank you for the positive changes and progress I have experienced in my life as a result of the techniques and information present in the book. My question is, when you use positive reframing, and identify all the advantages of a negative thought, but still decide, "Hey I would still like to reduce my suffering, in spite of all these good things. But I would love to keep the advantages too." Does this mean my conviction for change is not strong enough? Or is this when I should transition to the magic dial technique and try to keep the best of both worlds ? Thank you in advance, Christian David’s reply Thanks, do the Magic Dial and you can have it both ways. However, keep this in mind, or perhaps discover it later on. Once you start to challenge your thoughts successfully, and your belief in your negative thoughts diminishes substantially, you may decide to lower your feelings even further, possibly all the way to zero. And at that point, you’re probably ready for Relapse Prevention Training as described in the book. The Feeling Great app is free this summer if you’re in the US, so that might help you along the trail if needed. Warmly, David Can I use this as an Ask David question on one of our Ask podcasts? d Christian responds Hello David, Thank you for your in depth response, that's really handy. Part of me is really hoping I'll want to lower my ratings even further, but I think as you have outlined many times, honoring my resistance is important if I want to get to that point. It's weird isn't it, I know at an intellectual level I want these things to happen, but at the gut level part of me is still holding on. I would love to use the app, however I'm based in the UK and it isn't available to me, I saw on the FAQ on the website that it may be getting released in other parts of the world soon ? I also hope there will be more and more TEAM-CBT therapists available in the UK in future too ! Absolutely, I would love for my question to be featured in the podcast ! Warm Regards, Christian 2. Joe asks: What method would be best to stop giving a crap? Hey Dr. Burns, Your two most recent webinars have been very helpful, especially Overcoming Perfectionism, yet I still struggle hard with perfectionism. [To be specific, I put a video out there that people enjoyed (internally) and that I spent a month on, only to get mostly ignored, and I feel defeated.] What method would be best to stop giving a crap? Thanks! Joe David’s Reply As I have said so often, I don’t recommend “methods” for “problems.” I use TEAM, a process. I sometimes have the same problem with media interviews. I am often asked to give three tips on this or that problem, like gaining self-esteem or whatever. For example, a Chinese interviewer asked for “tips” on overcoming depression, like spending more time in nature or more time with friends and the people you care about. I am not happy about such questions, as my answer is that I’m a no tips please type of guy. I have developed many powerful processes for dealing with a variety of common problems. For example, for individual mood problems I find it extremely useful to start out with a partially completed Daily Mood Log, and for a relationship problem a partially completed Relationship Journal can lead to some fantastic and revealing work. But as far as general “tips” for not “giving a crap” if you’re struggling with perfectionism, I can only quote what the Buddha said nearly 2,500 years ago: “General tips suck! Give me something specific and real, please!” Best, david 3. How can you motivate someone who procrastinates? Dear David, I have a question but first I'd like to tell you and the team just how much I'm loving the app. Especially since you gave the AI a voice so now we can speak with it rather than typing out responses. Now it feels so quick and easy. Sometimes, I find it can be hard to motivate myself to do the self-help work but talking to the app makes the process effortless. It really does feel like having a friend who's got your best interest at heart, and they're available to talk to you whenever you need them. My question is about the role of therapists when it comes to patient motivation. I was hoping you could clarify why when patients present with anxiety, we know they will predictably resist doing exposure, but as a therapist it is necessary to press the matter. However, when working with a procrastinating patient, they will almost always show similar process resistance (to doing whatever it is they're procrastinating about), but your recommendation (as far as I understand it) is not to push them to do anything. Not to help motivate them to do the hard work. Is there a reason for this difference, or have I misunderstood entirely? Warmest regards, Ollie David’s Reply I can make this an Ask David question, and thanks. Appreciate the kind comments. As a therapist working with anxiety or depression, I work out the Outcome and Process Resistance before trying to “help.” So, the depressed patient must agree to homework, and the anxious patient must agree to exposure, in order for us to work together on those problems. This is called Dangling the Carrot, Gentle Ultimatum, and Sitting with Open Hands and sometimes with Fallback Position at the end. If a patient wants help with procrastination, they must agree to the five-minute rule, to get started at a specific time today, even if they don’t feel motivated. I see it as the same thing: making the patient accountable and giving the patient free will to decide what they are willing to do—or not willing to do. I would never try to motivate a procrastinating patient! That’s not on the menu. However, I can help them get started if they need help, but I the first five things they have to do into simple things taking 15 seconds each, like sit in my chair might be the first step in organizing you desk. Then reaching for a piece of paper that needs filing. Etc. Five minutes work of little things. You might want to listen to / search the podcasts for this process. We’ll mention a bit more on the podcast. Warmly, david If I missed it, try again! 4. Owen asks: Should I complete a full Daily Mood Log each day? Hi Dr. Burns, Thank you again for all the incredible content you've been sharing—both the Feeling Good podcast and your Feeling Great videos. You’re so engaging and natural on camera, it’s hard to believe you were ever camera-shy! The Ask David segments are always a highlight of my Mondays. I just had two quick questions about the Daily Mood Log. I often find it takes me several hours to complete one fully, including the positive reframing. Should I aim to complete a full log each day for maximum benefit, or is it okay to work through one gradually over several days? I often get unrelated negative thoughts while still working on a previous log, which means I can't get to the new ones right away. David’s Reply Hi Owen, Yes, you can spread it out for sure. david 5. Owen asks: To speed things up, is it okay to copy positive reframing from a previous DML when relevant, or is it better to start fresh each time? Thanks so much in advance, Owen (assumed name) David’s Reply Hi Owen, Yes, you can use previous PR! Will include your questions at the upcoming Ask David podcast. Can we use your first name? david At our next Ask David, we’ll start out with this question: 1. Zainab asks: Is friendship a basic human need? What do you think? Yes? No? Maybe? We did a survey among our group in preparation for the next Ask, and it was two “no’s” (Matt and David) and one “yes” (Rhonda). So stay tuned next week for the discussion of this question that comes up often in different disguises. For example, we often hear heated proclamations on whether love is an adult human “need.” What do you think about that question? Thanks for listening today! Matt, Rhonda, and David /episode/index/show/feelinggood/id/37745410

460: Ask David: The Fear of Happiness! 08/04/2025

460: Ask David: The Fear of Happiness! Ask David-- The Fear of Happiness! Although we had five questions for today’s Ask David episode, we spend the entire podcast on the first question from a man with an intense fear of happiness. He wrote: How can I use exposure to overcome my fear of happiness? Hi David, How would you do exposure for the fear of happiness? Whenever I feel happy I immediately feel afraid because I had a very strict religious upbringing where many harmless forms of fun and enjoyment were completely forbidden. Even though I'm no longer a religious believer, the fear remains. Feeling good then makes me afraid, anxious and insomniac. This often goes on for days after something good happens and it almost seems as if I AM being punished after all! How can I recover when feeling good makes me feel so bad? Love your work and all that you do. Best regards, Tomas David’s reply As I have said on numerous occasions, I do NOT recommend “methods” (like exposure) for “problems” (like your “fear of happiness.”) I think your problem is very treatable, but I work with patients systematically, and that doesn’t mean starting out with a “method,” like exposure or any other method. I use a step by step approach, using T = Testing, E – Empathy, A = Assessment of Resistance, and M = Methods in a sequence. In addition, when I work with anxiety, I always incorporate these four approaches with every patient I work with: The Motivational Model: I bring Outcome and Process Resistance to conscious awareness and melt them away, if possible, using a variety of TEAM CBT approaches. The Cognitive Model: This involves a well-done Daily Mood Log to identify and challenge the distorted negative thoughts at one moment in time. The Exposure Model: Facing your fears, or testing them with an experiment. This is frightening, but required of every anxious patient. The Hidden Emotion Model: This is based on the idea that only “nice” people struggle with anxiety, with only a few exceptions, and that an unacknowledged problem is often hiding right behind the anxiety. The cure requires the Detective Step: identifying what the hidden emotion or feeling is. The Action Step: Expressing the suppressed feeling and or dealing with the problem you are avoiding. Your fear of happiness is an interesting problem for sure. One of my favorite movies, “Babette’s Feast,” involves this theme. If you want some help, you could send me a partially completed Daily Mood Log. You will discover that you are the only one who is doing the punishing! It is that belittling, intimidating voice in your own head that is causing 100% of your suffering. I look forward to helping you challenge those voices! In the meantime, I’ll add this to the latest Ask David podcast questions, in the hopes you might send the DML, and then Rhonda and I can comment in greater depth on the live program. Best, david Tomas kindly sent a Daily Mood Log, which you can see if you As you can see, the Upsetting Event is simply “studying mathematics,” something he loves. However, he has the belief that if he allows himself to enjoy this or any activity, something terrible will happen to him. He traces this to a strict religious upbringing, and perhaps also to bullying he endured as a kid. You can see that this is intensely upsetting to him. If you look you will see that in 8 of the 9 categories of emotions on his Daily Mood Log (DML), he scores in the range of 80 to 100, which is intense and severe to extreme. The only emotion category that is not extremely elevated is the anger cluster, which he rated at only 40. You can see as well that his negative thoughts all involve the theme of punishment and destruction if he allows himself to feel happiness and enjoyment of life, or if he advances himself in life. In some of the emails he sent me, he traces this back to being bullied when young. . . possibly by kids who were jealous of his high IQ. As mentioned above, I don’t throw methods (like exposure) at people based on a problem or diagnosis (in his case a phobia, the fear of happiness.) I also mentioned that I go through the T E A M model in a sequence, starting with Testing and Empathy, followed by the Assessment of Resistance and culminating in Methods. In addition, I always treat anxious patients with four powerful models, including the Motivational Model, the Cognitive Model, the Exposure Model, and the Hidden Emotion Model. I described these models above. The Motivational Model The Outcome Resistance has to do with the fact that Tomas may resist treatment because of his fear of the consequences of successfully achieving happiness. We will deal with that with Positive Reframing, including the Miracle Cure Question, the Magic Button, Positive Reframing, and the Magic Dial. In addition, we’ll have to deal with Process Resistance. At some point, we will have to use exposure techniques, and we will want to find out if he’s WILLING to do exposure even though it may be extremely anxiety provoking at first. We can dangle the carrot, letting him know that we anticipate a positive outcome, but also understand that facing his worst fears may be terrifying at first, and very uncomfortable. I will not try to persuade him to use any of the many versions of Exposure. He will have to persuade me that he’s willing to do it. I suspect he will be, because he is asking for exposure, but if he says he wants to be treated without exposure, I will have to let him know I am not a good choice as a therapist for him! That’s because I don’t know how to defeat any form of anxiety without exposure. Of course, I cannot treat Tomas, or anyone, through an Ask David, but can only make teaching points. But I am teaching self-help techniques that have been helpful to many people. In an email, I asked him the Magic Button question, and he said he didn’t think he’d push it. This indicates some understandable resistance that has to be dealt with. Positive Reframing is one way to deal with Outcome Resistance. The goal is not only deeper empathy but also helping patients “see” that the negative thoughts and feelings they are struggling so desperately to overcome are actually positive in many ways. Once they “see” this, it is kind of a pleasant shock to the system, and their resistance to change typically disappears. Then we ask them to set goals for each negative feelings—a lower level of each feeling that would allow them to feel better and not lose all the wonderful positives we have discovered. That’s why it’s better NOT to push the Magic Button. To help Tomas or anyone see and list the positives in their negative thoughts and feelings, we ask two key questions about each one: What are some possible advantages, or benefits, of this negative thought or feeling? How might it help me? What does this negative thought or feeling show about me and my core values as a human being that’s positive and awesome? Typically, this leads to list of 10 to 20 positives that have three characteristics. To give you an example, his intense loneliness is an expression of his love for people and the great value he sees in meaningful relationships. And his anxiety serves to protect him from danger, and is therefore an expression of self-love. And his feelings of inferiority—in spite of his tremendous intelligence—show humility, which is not only a spiritual quality, but also can make a person of great intelligence more accessible, more vulnerable, and more attractive. Inferiority may also be an expression of his honesty and willingness to acknowledge his shortcomings, as well as his accountability. We could easily go on and on, and it might be a great exercise for you to try find the positives in several other of his negative thoughts and feelings by asking those two questions. Once my patient and I have listed 10 or more positives, I ask if these positives are True and valid? Powerful? Important? Nearly always, I get a resounding YES to each question. Then I use the Magic Dial to see what they might want to dial each negative feeling down to in the % Goal column of the Daily Mood Log. Is this Positive Reframing process straightforward? Easy? Not really. I make it look easy, because when I teach I want people to understand, but “seeing” these positives is, in reality, incredibly challenging for most people. In fact, You can see the Positive Reframing that Tomas completed on his own if you As you can see Tomas almost completely missed the boat when he tried to identify the positives in his negative thoughts and feelings. I mention this because it is a CRUCIAL step in TEAM CBT, and people often have a tremendously hard time “seeing” the positives in their negative thoughts and feelings. A big part of the reason is that society teaches us the opposite. In fact, negative feelings are Labeled as a bewildering array of more than 200 so-called “mental disorders” by the American Psychiatric Association in their “bible,” the DSM (Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders.) But here’s something even MORE surprising. Rhonda—a highly respected and admired TEAM CBT therapist and teacher—also struggles to find the positives during today’s podcast. Once someone has pointed them out, you can suddenly “see” them. But on your own, you may have a lot of trouble at first with Positive Reframing, which is anything but simple, but extraordinarily powerful once you “get it.” I recently told my weekly Tuesday psychotherapy training group at Stanford that TEAM CBT is extraordinarily difficult to learn and master—nearly always requiring years of study and practice—and perhaps the most challenging form of psychotherapy ever developed. She was angry and told me I’d have to do large controlled outcome studies to validate that claim! Yikes! I may be wrong, and there could be other more difficult forms of therapy, but I still believe what I’m saying because I see it every single day. Many of the most powerful and helpful concepts, such as the four “Great Deaths” of the “self” for the therapist and for the patient in TEAM, and the Acceptance Paradox, and more are hard to learn! But worth it, IF you take the time to learn this method. And if you wish to use TEAM CBT, on yourself (for self-help) or with your patients (if you’re a therapist) you will have much greater success after you master this powerful but elusive skill. The Cognitive Model After Rhonda and I worked with Positive Reframing, we went on to the technique that usually starts the M = Methods section, called “Explain the Distortions.” This powerful method includes answering three questions about one or several of the distortions you can find in one of the thoughts you want to work on first. First, select the thought and identify all the distortions in it, listing them by abbreviations in the Distortion column on your Daily Mood Log. For example, if it is an example of All-or-Nothing you can put AON in that column. And you can put OG for Overgeneralization, and so forth. Often, you will find five or even ten distortions in a single negative thought. Let’s say you work on, “If I’m happy, I’ll be destroyed.” This alarming thought includes AON; LAB, FT, DP, and ER. And it’s also a Hidden SS. Choose the distortion you want to work on first. Let’s say it’s Fortune Telling (FT). Why is this distortion, FT, considered a thinking error in general? Why does the FT distortion your specific thought pretty much make the thought unreasonable? In other words, Why does the FT in your thought NOT map onto reality? And finally, why is the FT is this thought unfair? As an exercise, turn off the podcast for a moment and write down your answers to those three questions. Once you’re done, you can check the answers at the end of the show notes. It’s a great skill to practice and learn, because it will usually make it really easy for you to generate positive thoughts that satisfy the necessary and sufficient conditions for emotional change. Do you know what they are? Write them down before you look at the answers at the end of the show notes. Just take a guess, but WRITE SOMETHING DOWN before you look! But DON’T look until you’ve written down your own answers! Hey, did you peek, or did you write down the answers first? I get it! And I forgive you! However, you missed out on a great opportunity for learning if you skipped the written exercise. Or, to put it positively, I try to make the exercises fun and interesting. And if you do them, you’ll learn some cool and helpful things rapidly. It’s like riding a bicycle. You’ve got to get on and ride to learn how to do it! But here’s what’s really interesting. You’ll notice that Rhonda, once again, really struggles with this exercise during the podcast. Although I think of Explain the Distortions as a really easy TEAM CBT method, experience with real people has over and over again provided abundant evidence that it’s NOT easy for many, or possibly most, people at first. So, what’s the point? Here’s the point. If you’re a therapist, this method is powerful, and will richly reward you for the time and effort you spend in learning how to do it! But you cannot take it for granted if you want to use it in an actual therapy session. And if you are simply looking for self-help, the exact same thing is true: the method is incredibly helpful and well worth some time and effort to “get it!” In addition, to challenging the obviously distorted thoughts on his Daily Mood Log, what other methods might be helpful to Tomas? The Exposure Model Well, there are a great many, including the Exposure techniques he was asking for. For example, he could intentionally make himself happy, and then fantasize some horrible punishment using Cognitive Flooding. The idea would be to make himself as anxious as possible for as long as possible, until he finally gets bored with the fantasy, which will definitely happen eventually, and the anxiety disappears. Exposure is terrifying at first, and it is supposed to be. That’s whey and how it works! The Hidden Emotion Model There are many helpful variations on the Exposure front, and the Hidden Emotion Model might also be key. Is there some problem or issue in his life that Tomas is not dealing with? The Class on this technique in the (now entirely free for the summer of 2025 app) Feeling Great app has many details and exercises and examples to show how this mind-blowing technique works. That’s it for today’s podcast. I want to thank you, Tomas, for providing us with a fascinating problem, and all of you who send in your questions. We are SO GRATEFUL that you are bouncing back, Rhonda, after your ordeal with radiation therapy for your lymphoma, and send you all our love and best wishes for joyful and complete healing and liberation from your nightmare! Warmly, Rhonda and David Answers Here is my answer to first exercise on the necessary and sufficient conditions for emotional change from a positive thought. . The necessary condition for emotional change: The Positive Thought must be 100% correct. The sufficient condition for emotional change: The Positive Thought must reduce your belief in the disturbing negative thought. Sometimes you’ll want to reduce it all the way to zero. Sometimes, that’s not necessary, especially with Should Statements. Here are my answers to the three questions about Explain the Distortions above. In general, FT is a thinking error when you are making arbitrary alarming predictions without strong evidence that supports those predictions. In particular, there is no evidence that supports the claim that people who feel happy rapidly become the victims of some horrific disaster or punishment. This thought is very unrealistic because the ONLY punishment that Tomas has experienced is the result of his own negative thoughts! This thought is unfair because it puts Tomas in handcuffs so he will be unable to enjoy his life. /episode/index/show/feelinggood/id/37431025

459: Personal Work with our Beloved Rhonda, Part 2 07/28/2025

459: Personal Work with our Beloved Rhonda, Part 2 Part 2 of Our Personal Work with Rhonda The Surprising Conclusion of Rhonda's Session with Matt and David Last week, you heard Part 1 of our personal work--a single two hour therapy session--with Rhonda, focusing on her recent shocking diagnosis of a cancerous and potentially fatal lymphatic tumor in her neck. We did initial T = Testing and E = Empathy. Today we do the A = Assessment of Resistance and the M = Methods, and of course, the final assessment of symptoms and teaching points. A = Assessment of Resistance How DO you help someone facing a terrifying diagnosis of cancer? What's the best method to use? How do you cheer them up, or is it impossible to do so and foolish to try? Or is there no correct answer to these questions? Well, there IS a "correct" answer, at least according to the gospel of TEAM. You ASK the person if they want help, or if listening is enough. And if they want help, you ask them what they want help with. This personalizes the treatment and brings it alive for the patient. Rhonda said she had difficulties accepting help, and extreme fears of being a burden on others. She specifically wanted to stop comparing herself to her friend, Jack, who has so far survived for four years after a severe diagnosis of disseminated cancer requiring whole body radiation. She also wanted help feeling less guilty about her anger and her complaint about pain and side effects. Because we didn't want the session to run overly long, we did some streamlined Positive Reframing, listing 11 positives embbeded in her negative thoughts and feelings, such as "I have no right to complain." What does each negative thought and feeling show about her that's positive and awesome? And what were some benefits of them? The we asked Rhonda about her goals for each negative feeling on her DML, which you can see if you As you can see, her desired reductions for most of her negative feelings were only modest, perhaps indicating some acceptance of her situation and the negative feelings that seemed inevitable. However, this can sometimes indicate some residual resistance that has not been addressed. We'll have to wait and see what happens next to find out! M = Methods We worked with Rhonda using several methods, especially the Externalization of Voices with frequent role reversal until she got to huge. My memory of the session is that the Counter-Attack Technique compared with the Acceptance Paradox got her to HUGE wins. You can see Rhonda’s ratings for each negative feeling at the end of the session if you And were these rating genuine? Or was she just being "helpful" to us for the sake of the podcast? At the end, Rhonda estimate her gratitude was 1,000,000%! Thank you, Rhonda. We all love you for your incredibly important gift to all of us today, teaching us how to love, and to laugh, when we all have to face our inevitable fate of letting go and experiencing the "true Great Death" of the "self." And we are 1,000,000% grateful to your wonderful doctors at Stanford that this cancer will NOT get the last word! Teaching Points The first take home message is that you can’t effectively treat anyone with any kind of emotional problem without asking them to write down their negative thoughts. If you do this, you can find out exactly what's going on, and you'll know the only real cause of all the negative feelings that person is struggling with. That’s why you can’t treat depression with “tips” or advice, like “spend time in nature,” or “spend time with friends.” That’s just junk and cheap advice and it will not work, above and beyond a possible placebo effect. Second we don’t treat problems, like “cancer” or "depression" or any “mental disorder” with packages developed for just that problem. We treat people who are struggling, and find out what their negative thoughts are! You CANNOT know what someone is thinking without asking them. Everyone’s thoughts are different and unique. That's why packages, including ALL the so-called "schools" of therapy, will ALWAYS fall short. There are, of course, common themes, like “I’m not good enough,” but we all put our own unique spins on these themes when we’re hurting. And third, measure what you're trying to treat, with brief accurate scales worded in the hear and now at the start and end of each session. That's the ONLY way to know if you've been effective. And finally, events no matter how traumatic, do NOT cause feelings. Only your thoughts can have impact on how you feel about yourself, other people, and the world. That statement is not intended to blame you for how you feel, but to liberate you from the traps you've fallen into. Thanks for listening today! Matt, Rhonda, and David /episode/index/show/feelinggood/id/37421615

458: Personal Work with our Beloved Rhonda, Part 1 07/21/2025

458: Personal Work with our Beloved Rhonda, Part 1 Part 1 of Our Personal Work with Rhonda The doctor said I have cancer! Are feelings of depression, fear, anger, hopelessness, and more inevitable if you have experienced a severely traumatic event? Nearly all human beings would say it IS inevitable. But are they right? If your doctor just told you that you have a serious form of cancer, is it possible--or even desirable--to avoid intense distress and despair? Today, Matthew May MD and I sit down with our beloved Rhonda who was diagnosed roughly six weeks ago with a cancerous follicular lymphoma. This is a type of lymphatic cancer that allows for a reasonably long life expectancy, but is almost universally fatal. With one exception—if you find and treat it super early. And that is where Rhonda finds herself. And today, she received her (hopefully) 12th and final radiation treatment to her neck, right under her right ear. She was told that the probability of a cure is 95%, but the effects, including painful side effects, of the radiation would be cumulative and increasing for a while after the series of treatments has been concluded. And she IS in considerable discomvort. Which was good news, great news, actually, for all of us! Still, it’s been a rocky and highly emotional road for Rhonda. So Matt and I sat down with her early this morning to see if we, with the help of TEAM CBT, might be able to bring her some accurate empathy and comfort. In the session, Matt and I went through the T E A M sequence with Rhonda. T = Testing You can see Rhonda’s initial Brief Mood Survey if you As you can see from her Brief Mood Survey, which was completed before the session began, she was only mildly elevated in depression, anxiety, and anger, but her positive feelings of happiness were very low (only 8 our of 20, with 0 being not happiness at all in any category and 20 being the highest possible happiness. in all categories.) E = Empathy However, as Matt and I empathized with Rhonda, we reviewed her partially completed Daily Mood Log, which you can see if you This tool painted a radically different picture. Rhonda's scores in nearly all categories were extremely elevated, indicating about the most intense feelings of depression, anxiety, guilt, shame, inadequacy, hopelessness, frustration, anger, and shock, as you can imagine. She was also moderately self-conscious and embarrassed. Four radically important question came to mind: What was causing these intensely negative and almost unbearable feelings? Is there any realistic hope of reducing them during today's session? And if you did want to "help," how in the world would you attempt to do this? And how much "help" could you realistically hope for? If you're serious about these topics, I would strongly recommend that you take a piece of paper and jot down your answers to these questions right now, before you listen to the rest of session. Then, after you listen to the conclusion next week, you can compare what happened with your own ideas about the situation. , During the empathy phase, Matt and I used the Five Secrets of Effective Communication to understand exactly how Rhonda was think, and how she was really feeling inside. We also did a What-If / Downward Arrow Technique to find out what she was the most afraid of. If you haven't already listened to that portion of our work with her. What do you think she was most afraid of in having cancer? And why, do you suppose, she was feeling so guilty? And so angry? We also explored the impact of the side effects of the radiation therapy, and the impact of the cancer on her personal and family relationships, the errors others made in trying to "help" when she was feeling down, and her fears of the future. At the end of the empathy phase, we asked Rhonda to grade us in three categories: How well did David and Matt understand your thoughts? How well did David and Matt understand how you were feeling inside? How well did David and Matt so in creating an atmosphere of trust, warmth, and acceptance? If you're a mental health professional and you do psychotherapy, I have another question for you before we continue: What % of your patients do you ask these three questions part way through your sessions? Raise your hand if the answer is "most, if not all, of my sessions." Yikes! I don't see many hands going up! I don't want to upset you, and you may not take me seriously, but you might be missing the boat! At any rate, Rhonda gave us a triple A +. That's definitely a passing grade, and she gave us the green light to go on to the final two steps of the TEAM session(/the A and the M steps), which you'll hear in their entirety on our very next podcast! Thanks for listening today! And make sure you tune in next week for the awesome conclusion of our work with our beloved Rhonda! Rhonda, Matt, and David /episode/index/show/feelinggood/id/37421520

457: Ask David: Chasing, Sadness as Celebration, and Autism 07/14/2025

457: Ask David: Chasing, Sadness as Celebration, and Autism Ask David: Chasing, Commitment Problems Sadness as Celebration Is Autism Increasing? The answers to today’s questions are brief and were written prior to the show. Listen to the live discussion for a more in-depth discussion of each question. Today’s live podcast discussion with Rhonda, Matt, and David was very energetic and hopefully inspiring for all of you! Today’s questions. Aurora asks about a dating problem—the guy I’m dating doesn’t want to “commit.” What should I do? Ana asks: I’m 48 now, and about 25 years ago, I was diagnosed with infertility—a devastating moment for someone who had dreamed of becoming a mother since childhood. Through therapy, prayer, and especially your book Feeling Good, I’ve done deep healing. I truly feel at peace most of the time. My life is full and joyful. But I’ve noticed that certain dates—especially Mother’s Day and Christmas—still bring sadness. Not overwhelming or constant, but a familiar ache that surprises me even now. I use my CBT tools and move through it, but part of me wonders: should I be “over this” by now? Brittany asks: Is autism really on the increase? The following questions will be included in the next Ask David podcast. We did not have time to include them today. Ollie asks: How do you motivate a procrastinating patient to do the hard work of facing the task they’ve been putting off? Owen asks: Should I complete a full Daily Mood Log each day? Owen asks: Is it okay to copy the positive reframing from a previous DML when relevant? Zainab asks: Is friendship a basic human need? 1. Aurora asks about a dating problem—the guy I’m dating doesn’t want to “commit.” What should I do. Hi Doctor Burns, I have been dating a guy exclusively (both only seeing each other) but he doesn’t bring up wanting commitment to being in a relationship. He wants to see me in all his free time but tends to plan dates last minute if he does and assumes we will hang out at his place when we get together. He knows I’d like a relationship but said we are working towards that and that it’s putting unnecessary pressure when I mentioned it. I’m not sure how long to wait and asking directly for what I’d like (him planning dates in advance) doesn’t really help as he quickly got defensive and I then went to using the five secrets. Any advice? Thank you for everything you do, I love your books and podcast so much. They have truly changed my life. You and Rhonda make me smile every day that I listen. If you do by chance use my question would you not include my name? Aurora David’s response Yes we can address this during an Ask David. It’s great timing since we just had several podcasts on dating questions, Quick answer, and we’ll go deeper in the podcast, but it sounds like you’re being a bit too available and letting him use you and take you for granted. Remember the Burns Rule: “People ONLY want what they CAN’T get, and NEVER want what they CAN get!” So being more unavailable, letting him know you have other plans (which may simply be not to see him at the last minute), all the while being sweet. When he says he is not interested in a commitment just now, you can use the Five Secrets of Effective Communication, and play the role of “shrink,” not “available lady.” Ask him about that, express curiosity, encourage him to talk. These methods (5 secrets) are an art form, spelled out pretty clearly in Feeling Good Together. Pressing him for a commitment is guaranteed to drive him away. You want HIM to be the chaser, and YOU to be the chased. Also, a Daily Mood Log on thoughts that make you anxious about him, and working toward letting go of “needing” him. Warmly, David Aurora responds to David This is amazing Dr. Burns, thank you so very much! I am so humbled you took the time to read my email, use my questions, and give such a helpful reply. And yes how about the name Aurora! Thank you and Rhonda. Your work has truly changed my life and I am so deeply grateful for all you do. Aurora 2. Ana asks about living with infertility. Hi Dr. Burns, I hope you’re well. I had the honor of corresponding with you and Dr. Rhonda last year about my relationship with my mother, and I’m still so grateful for your generosity and the space you gave me on the podcast. Today I write about a different part of my story. I’m 48 now, and about 25 years ago, I was diagnosed with infertility—a devastating moment for someone who had dreamed of becoming a mother since childhood. Through therapy, prayer, and especially your book Feeling Good, I’ve done deep healing. I truly feel at peace most of the time. My life is full and joyful. But I’ve noticed that certain dates—especially Mother’s Day and Christmas—still bring sadness. Not overwhelming or constant, but a familiar ache that surprises me even now. I use my CBT tools and move through it, but part of me wonders: should I be “over this” by now? Or is it normal that something so deep still stirs, even after years of healing? I sometimes question whether I’m simply very good at coping (I’m an Enneagram 3—always performing strength) or if there’s still more I need to process, like the moment both of my sisters-in-law announced their pregnancies during the darkest part of my grief 😓💔. But then again, maybe occasional sadness is just part of living with love and loss. Thank you for reading—and for your work, which has meant so much to me. Warmly, Ana David’s Response Hi Ana, My website is a little clunky now, but if you search “Sadness as Celebration” you may find one or more podcasts that address this concept. In simple terms, your sadness is an expression of your love, and your core values as a human being, as a woman. So you might want to continue to experience that occasional sadness forever. Of course, if it is having a negative effect on your llfe, that would be different, but it doesn’t sound that way. Acceptance, with gratitude, could be one path. Could we use this on an Ask David, with your first name or possibly some other name? In other words, if you could press our Magic Button and “be over it,” would you REALLY want to press that button? What does your sadness say about you and your core values that’s positive, even awesome? Warmly, david Ana replies Dear Dr. Burns, Thank you so much for your kind and thoughtful response. What you said makes so much sense — it’s so wise, so true, and also so simple. I appreciate it deeply. The idea that my sadness is an expression of love and core values feels incredibly freeing. I only wish I didn’t feel guilty or “broken” when these feelings creep in from time to time. Your perspective helps me see them differently — not as setbacks, but as moments of connection with something I’ve loved dearly. Yes, please feel free to use this in an Ask David episode. I’d be honored. You’re welcome to use my first name, Ana. With gratitude, Ana David’s reply Thanks again, Ana. As an aside, you “got it,” I believe. Your sadness is an expression of your love, and likely also makes you more compassionate toward others. And more. The sadness you feel, arguably, is not a “defect,” or something to be defeated, but something beautiful that can be accepted and welcomed. If you think it is “too much,” you can write down your Negative Thoughts and look for distortions, of course. Warmly, david Rhonda suggested that we give the numbers of the podcasts that deal with the interesting topic of “Sadness as Celebration.” They include #s174, 252, 253, and 304 (this last being my experience with loneliness and grief while driving across the Nevada desert as a medical student.) 3. Brittany asks if autism is on the increase? Hi Dr. Burns, I’ve noticed in the last few years the term autism being used much more commonly and now seems to be a broader term. I watched a show last night where an actual autism center was showing their test they use. It was pictures of people’s eyes and you had to guess if they were feeling sad, happy, frustrated, etc. They said autistic people have a hard time telling what others are thinking/feeling. Well I took the quiz and got half wrong. They also described autistic people as being awkward socially, having a hard time adjusting to new surroundings, disliking loud noises. Well that also describes me but by no means would I say I’m autistic. I think they are throwing personal preferences and social anxiety into the umbrella term autism. I know you did that podcast on ADHD where you said you don’t treat ADHD, you treat people. What are your thoughts on the way autism seems to be diagnosed these days? Of course I’m sure you would just treat whatever problem the person wanted to work on, not the so called disorder. But still, do you find it frustrating how often people are deemed to be autistic these days? -Brittany David’s reply I might be a bit autistic, too! Join the club. It's the latest thing, and super broad boundaries, just like you said. And like you said, I treat the person, not the so-called "mental disorder." Also, I did an informal study on shrinks, and they had no idea what patients were feeling even after a two + hour interview with the patient! Warmly, david PS I'll make this another ask David, it's a good one! Rhonda wrote: David: What do you think of putting the link to the autism facial recognition test in the show notes? Great idea, Rhonda, so here’s the link. Remember, we are not endorsing the validity or reliability of this scale, nor are we recommending it for any medical or psychological assessment! David Thanks for listening today! Matt, Rhonda, and David /episode/index/show/feelinggood/id/37374320

456: Ask David: The Fear of Being Alone or Abandoned. . . and More! 07/07/2025

456: Ask David: The Fear of Being Alone or Abandoned. . . and More! Ask David: The Fear of Being Abandoned Living with Someone Who's Depressed Can Someone Else's Depression Depress You! The answers to today’s questions are brief and were written prior to the show. Listen to the live discussion for a more in-depth discussion of each question. Today’s questions. Negar asks: How can I overcome my fear of being alone or being abandoned? Stan asks: What are your tips on living with someone suffering from anxiety or depression? They can sometimes be demanding or argumentative! Stan Asks: How can we protects ourselves from not feeling down during and after spending social time with anxious and / or depressed people because they express anxious or depressing thoughts to us. It seems to me that we must start to believe the distorted negative thoughts that the anxious or depressed person transmits to us, so we start to feel the same negative emotions the other person feels. 1. Negar asks: How can I overcome my fear of being alone or being abandoned? Thank you very much You know, doctor, one of the problems I have had since childhood was that I always worry about being alone and losing the people I love. My mind becomes conditioned and a lot of negative obsessive thoughts come to my mind, even the smallest irrelevant and random external events create a sign and increase stress But I will not stop trying But I am very eager to know what you think about the mind and the irrelevant and random patterns that it relates to negative events and how to get out of this cycle You can even put this as a podcast or clip on YouTube, I think it would be very welcome because I have seen many people who have this problem🙂😇 David’s response Hi Negar, Sure, we can have a question on the fear of being alone / abandoned, and the many ways of overcoming this problem. Copying Rhonda, my co-host. It is covered in detail in the first part of my book, Intimate Connections. Methods we can discuss include: Dailly Mood Log Empathy Positive Reframing Deserted Island Fantasy Cognitive Flooding Please Predicting Sheet Experimental Technique Examine the Evidence Downward Arrow / Identify Self-Defeating Belief(s) (SDB) Cost-Benefit Analysis for SDB Hidden Emotion Technique Externalization of Voices (with Acceptance Paradox, Self-Defense Paradigm, and CAT, or Counter-Attack Technique) Identify and Explain the Distortions Warmly, david Dear Dr Burns Thank you for all the effort you put into the podcasts, video clips and other material, which I find so helpful. They are a great addition to the books you have written. They are very inspiring and life changing in my case. I have two questions that I would be very grateful if you would discuss in one of your ask David podcasts, if you think they are worth discussing. 2. Stan ask about living with an anxious or depressed person who can sometimes be argumentative or demanding. Do you have any advice for family members or housemates that live with a person suffering from anxiety or depression. No one wants to make the situation worse and maybe there are some suggestions. I know it can be very difficult living with someone who is anxious or depressed. An anxious or depressed person might sometimes be very demanding or argumentative. They might also sit around doing almost nothing all day or they might have odd sleeping hours for example. They may make unreasonable requests or be overly sensitive and when hurt lash out at others for example. David’s Reply I would strongly recommend the podcast on “How to Help and How NOT to Help!” Will explain a bit more on the podcast. David 3. Transference of Negative Emotions? Why do we feel bad and how can we protects ourselves from not feeling down during and after spending social time with anxious and / or depressed people because they express anxious or depressing thoughts to us. It seems to me that we must start to believe the distorted negative thoughts that the anxious or depressed person transmits to us, so we start to feel the same negative emotions the other person feels. When this happens we might start to avoid contact with the other person which might make them feel worse. As always I would really appreciate your thoughts on the above two matters, if you think it is worth an Ask David question Thank you again. Kind regards Stan David’s Reply Negative feelings do not “transfer” between people. Only your own thoughts can affect the way you feel. Will explain more on the show! If you’ve been making the mistake of trying to “help,” it would make sense that you would feel upset, frustrated, maybe even angry. But it is your own dysfunctional way of interacting with the depressed or anxious person, and your own negative thoughts, that are 100% responsible for how you feel! But I will need to spell this out on the show! Thanks for listening today! Matt, Rhonda, and David /episode/index/show/feelinggood/id/37165255

455: Dating Part 3: Flirting Secrets, Safety, and More! 06/30/2025

455: Dating Part 3: Flirting Secrets, Safety, and More! Dating, Part 3 Flirting Secrets, Safety, and More! Today we feature, Dr. Leigh Harrington and Dr. Angela Krumm, who will tell us how to flirt and date skillfully. Both Leigh and Angela are highly advanced TEAM CBT therapists and beloved friends and long-time members of our TEAM Community. Bio sketches for both go here. Include the idea that Leigh is a psychiatrist who specializes in social anxiety, relationship problems, bad habits, and depression, as well as traversing difficult situations with grace. Angela is a clinical psychologist and co-founder of the Feeling Good Institute in Mt. View, California. She specializes in social anxiety, teaching flirting skills, treating phobias, as well as health and lifestyle changes. Leigh and Angela, let me know what you want for your contact information at the end of the show notes, like email, website, whatever you prefer in case listeners want to contact you. Also, if you have recent pics we can use in the show notes, that’s cool, too, but not required. Rhonda began the show, as usual, with a warm-hearted endorsement, this one from a fan who greatly appreciated Dr. Taylor Chesney’s recent podcast on how to communicate with teenagers who may seem rebellious and out of control. The listener said it helped tremendously in her interaction with her 15 year old stepdaughter. I was not surprised, as Taylor is always filled with great wisdom and awesome advice in her teachings—something I also appreciate tremendously. The take-home message was to use the Five Secrets of Effective Communication, instead of trying to control them. Form a meaningful and loving relationship. It will pay off in the long run, and in the short run as well! Leigh began today’s podcast with a focus on safety when dating strangers, having fun on your dates, how to avoid dating the “wrong” people, how to tame your “dating addiction,” and how to set yourself up for success. Angela then taught us how to generate a fun and meaningful conversation with people you meet, and how to flirt and get things started in a positive direction. She explained that she went through a divorce when she was still young, and got lots of help in her flirting skills from several dear colleagues, including Maor Katz, Jacob Towery, and Stephen Pfleiderer. Mastering these skills was very helpful, and is now more than happy to share the incredible tips she picked up at that time, as well as her personal experiences, which culminated in a successful second marriage and family with an awesome hunk of a guy she met, using these skills. Leigh described how she works with patients who are shy by going out with them to public places where they can encounter and interact with strangers so as to confront and overcome inhibitions and intense anxiety. She said this kind of dramatic experience can have a sudden beneficial impact. She described taking a patient to a drugstore to ask a clerk about the best products for a toenail fungus. The clerk was exceptionally helpful and friendly. Leigh emphasized the power of sharing vulnerabilities to enhance connection with others. Angela said she does the same, going out with patients to approach strangers on the street with innocuous “openers” like asking questions, asking for recommendations, asking someone to settle a debate or something you’re puzzling over, finding a connection/something in common, or giving compliments. Although these things may seem overly easy to folks who have never struggled with social anxiety, they can be huge accomplishments for people who have struggled with social anxiety. For example, if you’re at the grocery store, you might position yourself near someone new and make a comment that seemingly could be directed at them or at no one at all. Something like, “There are so many types of apples. How does anyone pick?” These types of openers are low stakes and give the other person a chance to respond and strike up a conversation or simply move on. In general, she reminded us that it’s a cognitive distortion to assume that people will find out attempts to talk to them irritating or burdensome. Most people appreciate positive attention and like being helpful. Or, if you’re at the grocery store, you might say “Oh, there are so many types of apples here today. I’m not sure which type to buy.” You can also ask strangers for advice; this can be effective because people like to be helpful and it sets them at ease. Angela has prepared a guide describing many valuable flirting skills which you can see if you She also included some invaluable dating tips on avoiding dating the wrong people, safety, and more, which you can see if you Angela explained many additional key concepts, like Angela explained many additional key concepts, like False time-constraints (taking the pressure off others by keeping initial asks for time short; keeping initial dates short to leave others wanting more) How to decide how much to share when deciding to try to deepen emotional intimacy. Physical and emotional intimacy—how much should you share, and when? Angela suggested that you can use a hierarchy of sharing – testing the waters by sharing things that aren’t too vulnerable for you. Then observe their responses. If they respond respectfully, you can go a bit deeper. So, in a sense, you are doing experiments to guide the ship. This is less stressful than thinking you are being judged and that you have to “perform.” It’s important NOT to chase. For example, once you start dating someone, you might say, “I can only date you once per week.” Then the other person can ask, “Well, why not twice a week?” Now you’re the chased, and not the chaser! Angela says that “It’s always smart to be a little less than 100% available.” It’s great to work to keep your life full and active so you can set these limits genuinely. I have shared some of these tips with young people who are dating. Sometimes they protest and say, “I shouldn’t have to play games like that.” Here’s my (David's) answer: “In fact you DON’T have to play games. And if your current approach is working well for you, that’s cool. But if you find you’re getting left behind too often, you might have to rethink your strategies, and stop believing that you know all the answers! Humans are manufactured to certain specifications—they are very predictable. And, if you’re smart, you can use that knowledge to your advantage, instead of being gullible and overly idealistic. Leigh provided more invaluable information on the important topic of safety when dating. She does not give out her phone number, and especially not her address, for the first X number of dates. Also, you need to attend to your instincts, such as “I have a funny feeling about this person, but I’m not sure why!” LISTEN to that inner voice. She advises, if you feel SAFE you can have more fun, greater freedom, and more enjoyment. Angela said you can also ask for consent before you touch, but you can do it in a flirty way, such as: “You look like you want to kiss me. Is that right?” Of, “I know I’ll really regret it if I don’t ask you to kiss me.” Leigh advised noticing body language. Where are they looking? Notice their eyes, and make contact with their eyes. Their eyes will nearly always be sending a signal. Leigh said that early in a potentially exciting relationship, you may be waiting for a signal from the other person between dates. For example, have they called or texted you? But you don’t have to wait. You can take the initiative. For example, you can send them a good night text, and see if they respond. You can even do it a couple times. This is a good experiment to see if there are some embers burning while you fan the flames a little. Thanks for listening today! Rhonda and I want to thank Angela and Leigh for such thoughtful and illuminating teaching. We hope it brings some courage and love into your life! Leigh, Angela, Rhonda, and David /episode/index/show/feelinggood/id/37165125

454: Dating Part 2: Do You Need Some Love? 06/23/2025

454: Dating Part 2: Do You Need Some Love? Dating, Part 2 Do you need some love? Expert dating advice today! Today we feature two of our favorite people, Dr. Kyle Jones and Dr. Carly Zankman, who will discuss many aspects of dating. Both Kyle and Carly are advanced and highly effective TEAM CBT therapists with tons of experience in dating, and of course, in treatment. They share their personal experiences, as well as their considerable therapeutic expertise, in this highly energetic podcast. They cover a wide range of topics including ghosting, dealing with people who give you the run-around, negative self-fulfilling prophecies, Rejection Practice, how to avoid “chasing” (which Kyle calls the “Temptations Trap”) so you can be the one who’s being chased instead of the one who’s doing the chasing, the importance of being playful and how to make dating fun. The also encouraged avoiding some of the common kinds of negative self-talk, like “This date will suck,” or “I’ll always be alone,” or “People shouldn’t be so superficial,” etc. Kyle and David discussed Kyle’s first Sunday hike. Kyle had just been rejected by his boyfriend, and was feeling super down, telling himself he was a reject and a loser. They describe how Kyle change his internal dialogue during the hike, and began to talk to himself as a winner, as an awesome, hot, sexy guy, which lifted his mood tremendously. Then David suggested a strategy designed to turn the tables on his ex-boyfriend: “Just go to a gay singles bar tonight and pick up some good looking guy and get laid! If you do that, I can guarantee your Ex will come crawling back, and then you can kick some sand in his face!” Abd that’s exactly what happened! David emphasized the importance of looking your best, in terms of clothing and appearance, when dating, as well as the resistance that some people have (mostly men) who insist they “shouldn’t have to play the gain.” I described my collaboration with a salesperson at the King of Prussia Bloomingdale’s named Kuniko Finkelstein when I was in clinical practice in Philadelphia. I used to refer my single guys to her for a “sex uniform,” and she would select extremely sexy and appealing outfits for them. We highlighted the self-centeredness and foolishness of telling yourself that women or men should love me for the way I am. They say, “I shouldn’t have to play the game.” Of course, you DON’T have to play the game, but if you don’t, you may and probably will end up alone! And once you DO learn how to “play the game,” your chances of finding a deep and meaningful love relationship go way up. About Kyle and Carly Kyle Jones, PhD, is a licensed clinical psychologist with a private telehealth practice serving clients throughout California. He is a Level 4 Advanced TEAM-CBT therapist and trainer. Kyle specializes in helping individuals navigate anxiety, relationship challenges, and obsessive-compulsive disorder (OCD), with a warm, and evidence-based TEAM approach. In addition to his clinical work, Dr. Jones co-leads The OCD Consultation Group, a monthly peer forum for clinicians dedicated to enhancing their skills in treating OCD. He also serves as adjunct faculty at Palo Alto University, where he teaches in both the master’s and doctoral programs in clinical psychology. A proud alumnus of UC Santa Barbara, Dr. Jones recently joined the alumni council for the Department of Psychological and Brain Sciences, mentoring students and supporting the next generation of mental health professionals. Carly Zankman, PsyD., is a Clinical Psychologist and Level 4 Advanced TEAM-CBT therapist and trainer based in Mountain View, California. She specialized in working with younger adults and teens, helping them recover from anxiety and other mood challenges, such as social anxiety and fears of rejection and vulnerability, low self-esteem, trauma, and relationship issues. Carly loves using TEAM-CBT and Exposure Methods to help her clients overcome their fears, create deeper, genuine connection, and live more authentic, joyous lives! Since 2021 the Feeling Great Book Club has been a way for people across the world to come together in learning and practicing powerful self-help CBT Tools in a group book club format guided by your transformative book Feeling Great and facilitated by Brandon a Vance and Heather Clague, two psychiatrists expert in TEAM CBT. The Awesome Feeling Great Book Club Returns! It includes: - Large Group Demonstrations - Small Group discussions and practice, facilitated by former book club members. - Some small groups specifically for those using the Feeling Great App - Two 12 week online groups starting mid September and going until the first week in December, - meeting 80-minutes a session - either Mondays at 4pm or Wednesdays at 8:30am Pacific Time so they can be accessible to people all over the world. Cost is $240 for the series, sliding scale down to whatever you can afford. For more detail and to register, go to /episode/index/show/feelinggood/id/37082980

453: Dating Part 1: the (Dreaded) Dating Apps! 06/16/2025

453: Dating Part 1: the (Dreaded) Dating Apps! Dating, Part 1 Navigating the Dreaded (But Sometimes Needed) Dating Apps! Today we started a series on one of my favorite topics: dating. When I was in clinical practice in Philadelphia, a large proportion of my patients self-identified as single, without partner, so this was one of my favorite problems to help people with, and why I wrote the book, Intimate Connections, which included my some of my personal experiences learning about dating during my medical school days at Stanford. Our special guests include our own TEAM CBT expert, Jacob Towery, MD, who presents the free annual two-day marathon on shyness called “Finding Humans Less Scary.” He will be presenting this program at Esalen as well from September 8 – 12, 2025. We are also joined by two wonderful young ladies: Sydney, who graduated in 2024 from University of Santa Cruz, and Sophie, who recently graduated from UC Berkely. They will give us some first-hand experiences and suggestions in the navigation of dating apps. Jacob said that after his divorce in 2012, until 2020, he went on a lot of dating apps and met nearly 200 women this way, exploring both short and long-term types of dating. He said it is sometimes difficult to figure out what someone is really looking for on an app, whereas in person it is easier. The group described the tendency to treat people as objects and ghost them when you decide you’re not interested. He recommended, instead, to treat people with dignity and care, even if you’re not romantically interested in them. He said that whether you’ve been on one or many dates, don’t just ghost someone. Instead, you can let someone down gently if you aren’t interested. For example, at the end of a first date in which you don’t find yourself attracted to the other person, you could say “I didn’t feel a spark but I enjoyed our time together. Thanks for hanging out with me.” This will make it clear to the other person you won’t be asking for another date, but in a kind way, and prevents them wondering for days if you will ask them out again. In addition, he advised that initially, don’t just text people back and forth endlessly. Instead, get into real life ASAP. Meet them for coffee or ice cream or whatever would be fun. That way you can find out whether or not there’s a spark of interest. Jacob also recommended using a recent photo of yourself. If you use an older photo of yourself, the other person may be disappointed when they meet you! Jacob recommended being honest about what your interests are, and what you are looking for. Are you just looking for casual dating? Are you only looking for something that may evolve into a long term relationship? Are you interested in having children? What are your interests or hobbies? The group discussed many topics, like is it okay for a woman to take the initiative and ask people out they are interested in? It’s easy to get overwhelmed by having too many offers, too many to select from. And the whole process can be incredibly exhausting. How do you make conversation in a way that will turn the other person on and make them interested in you? What’s the secret? How do you overcome the fear of rejection? And what if you protect yourself from the fear of rejection by hiding personal information about yourself. For example, you may think that if you didn’t really open up to the other person, their rejection will be less painful because they didn’t see your so-called “real” self. Jacob emphasized the importance of being playful and creative when dating. People really like to have fun. Being overly serious or heavy can be a turn-off. Thanks for listening today! Future topics will include how to flirt, how to change the way you think when you’re rejected, making people chase you, how to get close, and more! Rhonda, Jacob, Sydney, Sophie, and David /episode/index/show/feelinggood/id/36897335

452: Update: The Feeling Great App 06/09/2025

452: Update: The Feeling Great App What's the Latest on The Feeling Great App? Featuring Jason Meno and Adam Holman Adam Holman and his loving cat! The featured photo is Jason Meno, also a cat lover! Today we focus on a number of exciting updates in the Feeling Great app, and are delighted to be joined by our esteemed colleagues, Jason Meno and Adam Holman who have recently created and launched to new V2 version of the Feeling Great chatbot, which includes greatly increased horsepower, in terms of rapid and dramatic reductions in 7 negative feelings, including feelings of depression, anxiety, guilt / shame, inadequacy, loneliness, hopelessness / discouragement, and anger. The latest data indicates reductions of more than 60% in all of these feelings within the first 90 minutes of chatbot use in most new users, and more than 70% reductions in repeat uses in the same amount of time. This is absolutely phenomenal and far surpasses my expectations 50 years ago when I first imagined and visualized this app. In addition, the new version of the app also causes fairly dramatic increases in seven positive feelings at the same time--a highly desirable feature that was lacking in most previous versions of the app. Jason and Adam also described a number of exciting, user-friendly features like two-way verbal communication with the app so you no longer have to type your dialogues (although you can if you prefer that mode.) Another new feature is long term memory, so the bot will remember you and be able to summarize your previous sessions, and more. In addition, to illustrate exactly HOW the app works, we did a live demonstration with Jason, who has been struggling with several of his negative thoughts, like "This app might not reach the hundred of millions of people around the world who need it." His belief in this thought was 80%, and the thought triggered strong feelings of hopelessness, sadness, guilt, anxiety, frustration, anger, and inadequacy. This is a valid concern since we must rapidly boost sales if we hope to break even and stay in business, We tried a number of methods that weren't effective, following the app's philosophy of 'failing as fast as we can," including Positive Reframing and Paradoxical Magnification, that did not help at all. In fact, Positive Reframing simply triggered increased resistance. Then we tried a method that has been really helpful for Jason in the past, Externalization of Resistance, and he was able to successfully challenge all the really GOOD reasons to cling to his negative thoughts. At the end, his belief in the thought was reduced from 80% to 20%, which was satisfactory to Jason as he said that some worrying is realistic and keeps him on his toes continually adding amazing new features to the app. If you've been struggling with low self-esteem or negative feelings or low self-esteem, you might want to check the latest version of the Feeling Great app. You can take a free ride and check it out. You've got absolutely nothing to lose but a couple hours of your time, and a life of greater joy and happiness to gain. Rhonda, Jason, Adam, and I appreciate all of you, and thank you for joining us today! /episode/index/show/feelinggood/id/36897235

451: Teen Troubles? Don't Freak Out! Featuring Dr. Taylor Chesney 06/02/2025

451: Teen Troubles? Don't Freak Out! Featuring Dr. Taylor Chesney Teen Troubles? Don’t Freak Out! Featuring Dr. Taylor Chesney Today, we are thrilled to welcome Dr. Taylor Chesney to our podcast on troubled teens—what actually works! Taylor has been on a number of previous podcasts, and has been a beloved member of the TEAM community for many years! We were lucky to have her here in person as a member of our weekly TEAM CBT training group for several years until she and her husband finally returned home to New York in 2014 where she established her booming clinical practice working with kids and teens. She and her husband, Gregg, have four children of their own, ranging from 11 to 2 ½, so she brings a great deal of practical experience to complement her brilliant technical skills. Taylor will teach us how parents can deal effectively with troubled and impulsive and often smelly and irritating teens. I think you will find her message highly practical and inspiring, and perhaps the opposite of the ways you may have reacted to frustrating teenagers in the past. She says her goal is to help parents feel more confident in dealing with their teens and to teach them how to develop greater teamwork, love and understanding by integrating the Five Secrets of Effective Communication into their daily parenting toolkit. She says that “teen brains are different. They act out impulsively when angry, and can be hard to tolerate at times, or even often.” The goal is to learn to see the world through their eyes, and to become comfortable with being uncomfortable with their behavior. Remember that teens are supposed to be irritable and angry as they grow more and more independent, which is healthy. Compared to an adult brain that is more developed, has better impulse control, and “should be” able to tolerate emotions better. She thinks that parents can often do a great deal more than a shrink, especially if the parents are willing to learn how to listen and connect more effectively with their children. She says, “teen brains are changing constantly. Teens are frustrating. They are angry, disorganized, and want more than anything to spend time with their friends. They often complain, and might say that a party they went to was “lame and it sucked because the parents were there, constantly hanging around. They don’t trust us!” Don’t argue or contradict them, or try to teach them “good lessons”. Instead use Thought Empathy, Feeling Empathy, and Disarming. Summarize their words and feelings, and find truth in what they are saying. For example, you might say, “That does sound disappointing, having the parents there supervising all the time. I wouldn’t be surprised if you feel frustrated and ticked off.” You want them to talk! And they WILL talk if you listen instead of trying to fix or control them. Suppose your teen says, “My teacher sucks. I turned my homework in late, so he deducted 5 points. But I was up late helping my friend on the phone, and I forgot.” You could say, “That sounds super frustrating. I know how much you care about your friends, and would do anything to help them out. It sounds super frustrating that you got marked down on your homework. I know that school is super important to you, too.” In other words, your goal is to provide support and warmth, rather than trying to discipline or scold them. They want to please you, but if you put them down when they are complaining, that will push them away and will cast a shadow on your relationships with them. You’ll get frustrated and the tension will escalate, and you may end up shouting at them in exasperation. Then you’ll get down on yourself as well, and you may feel like a bad mom or a bad dad. Taylor points out that if we can’t model calmness at those moments of tension, then our kids won’t learn how to be calm in the midst of conflict, either. They’ll just learn to shout and argue—the very behavior that you’re modeling. Suppose you ask them to do the dishes, but 30 minutes later they still haven’t started. They got distracted. The idea is to use “Gentle Parenting,” showing some patience, warmth and understanding instead of flying off the handle. This does NOT mean giving in, but rather showing kindness when you have to remind them to do their chores. You might say, “I know you’ve got so much going on, and it can be hard to keep up with everything.” Your kids will become more and more independent as they gradually evolve from grammar school, where they are highly dependent on you, to middle school and then to high school. During this process, you gradually evolve from being highly controlling and protective to being more of an influencer and creating a loving relationship, a friendship, with your child. At the same time that you attend to changes in your “outer dialogue” with your child, it’s important to notice your “inner dialogue.” This refers to the way you talk to yourself about our child, and these messages can sometimes be huge barriers to using the Five Secrets of Effective Communication. For example, if you tell yourself that your child is “bad,” this may trigger strong feelings of anger and resentment which will make it vastly more difficult, or almost impossible, to use the Five Secrets. Taylor reminds us that “if you can’t or won’t learn to see the world through your children’s eyes, you are essentially rejecting them and their world, and you will not be able to connect with them. But many parents resist or reject this strategy for a variety of reasons. For example, you may confuse empathy with being weak, or giving with giving in. You may be afraid that if you empathize, your children will walk all over you and run wild. But in point of fact, if you yell and lose your cool, you’ve lost the battle. You simply cannot force them to go to sleep, or to eat what you want them to eat, or to do what you want them to do. And if you fight your battle at the height of the conflict, when the negative feelings are their most intense, you lower the odds of success dramatically. Give them the message of love, even at the height of the battle. It’s not about control, but connection. We demonstrated these beautiful ideas during the podcast with some role-playing and role-reversals. Taylor, your message was crystal clear, simple, powerful, and inspiring. Rhonda and I and all of our fans are indebted to you for visiting today! A big hug and thanks! Taylor, Rhonda and David /episode/index/show/feelinggood/id/36585390

450: Resentment ever Rational? What causes Anger? How to Deal with Criticism 05/26/2025

450: Resentment ever Rational? What causes Anger? How to Deal with Criticism 450: ASK DAVID, Featuring Dr. Matthew May "All About Anger" Is resentment ever rational or logical? Are perceptions of injustice always present when people feel angry? What’s the best way to respond to an angry criticism? The following answers were written prior to the show. Tune in for the in-depth, live discussions of these cool questions. 1. Mark asks: Is RESENTMENT ever RATIONAL? Is there any rational, logical reason to hold a grudge? Hey David: I often have interesting thoughts at night – especially after consuming gummies or cannabis cookies before bed! Of course, it’s logical to learn from experiences and refuse to trust or give more money, time, labor, loan possessions, and so forth to someone that screwed us over. We don’t ever want to be deceived, ripped off, etc., multiple ties, but beyond self-protective behaviors and assertiveness, is there ANY logical, rational reason to hold a grudge or maintain resentment? David’s reply: Thanks Rationality is not one of the strong cards in dealing with any form of anger. Motivational interventions are usually more effective, at least initially. That’s because when we’re angry we usually WANT to feel angry and we won’t take kindly to anyone telling us that our thoughts are WRONG! David 2. Mark asks: Are perceptions of injustice always present when people feel ANGRY? It seems to me that there is almost always some self-talk related to feeling unjustly treated – whether road rage, marital/couple conflicts, etc. I am eager to hear your thoughts/feel free to use any of this in your writings, podcast, blogs, etc. David’s reply: Yes, most if not all, feelings of anger are associated with thoughts of injustice, unfair behavior and similar kinds of thoughts. 3. Rhonda’s 5-Secrets question. In the course of a conversation that I was having with a colleague of mine (not a TEAM therapist), she told me that she felt I was criticizing her. I immediately went into a 5-Secrets frame of mind and tried to disarm her…saying, “Well you are right, I am feeling critical.” I also used the other 5 steps except I did not offer any stroking because I was not feeling very positive toward her. She said, “Then if you are being critical of me now, you must be critical of me ALL the time.” How would you respond to that? Thank you! Rhonda David’s response We role-played this in real time, and discussed the power and challenge of genuine disarming, and illustrated it. Matt, Rhonda, and David thank you for joining us today, and hope you enjoyed the dialogue! /episode/index/show/feelinggood/id/36585285

449: Stories from My Hippy Days, Part 2 05/19/2025

448: Ask David, featuring Adam Holman 05/12/2025

448: Ask David, featuring Adam Holman 448: Ask David, featuring Adam Hollman Relationship woes--what should I do? How can animals have feelings if they can't think? How often should I fill out the Daily Mood Log? Why can't husbands express their feelings? Today we are joined by Adam Holman, LCSW. Adam has recently left his full time clinical practice in Arizona to join our Feeling Great app team here in San Francisco. I think you’ll be delighted by his warmth and wisdom. Although he works with us full-time, he still practices one day per week and specializes in X depression, anxiety, and screen addiction(e.g. video game addiction and more.) He has appeared on two previous Feeling Good Podcasts, # X and # Y. We are delighted to have Adam as the honored guest on today’s Ask David podcast! Here are the questions for today’s Ask David. They were all written before the podcast. If you listen to the podcast, you will get much more information and perspective. The Questions Hello Dr Burns. I hope you are doing well. I participated in the webinar held on 18th of April. It was a good experience for me and I would like to thank you and your team in arranging for that. Far asks: if You have a relationship problem, but also feel inadequate. Should you use the Daily Mood Log for the internal problem of inadequacy and the Relationship Journal for the actual dialogue? Moritz points out that animals, who don’t think in words, still have intense emotional reactions, including fear and anger. For example, when a deer spots a predator, like a cayote, it feels terror and instantly runs to get away. Doesn’t this prove that terrifying events can cause feelings directly? In other words, that makes it seem like thoughts or cognitions are NOT necessary to feel emotions. What do you think? Rob asks: How often do you fill out your own daily mood journals? Do you do one every day? Would you be willing to share recent examples of your own journals with podcast listeners? Brittany asks: Why won’t my husband share his feelings? (Or, we could ask, why can’t men express their feelings?) The Answers 1. Far asks: If you have a relationship problem, but also feel inadequate. Should you use the Daily Mood Log for the internal problem of inadequacy and the Relationship Journal for the actual dialogue? Hello Dr Burns. I hope you are doing well. I participated in the webinar held on 18th of April. It was a good experience for me, and I would like to thank you and your team for arranging it. May I ask a question? When there is a relationship problem it should be addressed by the relationship journal and interpersonal downward arrow and not by the cognitive method as far as I know. What about when there is a relationship problem together with strong feelings of depression and frustration as a result of an internal dialogue of being inadequate and defective. Should this component be addressed by the cognitive method and straightforward technique? Thanks a lot. Far Kom David’s Reply This one just came in, so we’ll answer it live. 2. Moritz: Are thoughts REALLY necessary to have emotional reactions to events? Hi David, first of all, thank you for the podcast, and in particular for answering my question about how you help people with schizophrenia or bipolar disorder, which came out a few weeks or months ago. I just finished listening to episode 430, where you stated that that negative thoughts can cause negative emotions (this part I'm totally on board with), but also hypothesized that probably only negative thoughts cause negative emotions. Did I understand that correctly? (If not, please ignore the rest of this email, it won't make any sense). I'm kinda confused about this claim. This is totally not my area of expertise, but I'm under the impression that fear is much older and more "primitive" than (at least conscious) thought, from an evolutionary point of view. It would seem unlikely that an old evolutionary feature in the brain would only be triggered from a newer feature. My other source of confusion comes from my own comparison with animals. It is my impression that basically all mammals show some kind of fear response, but we don't attribute thoughts to all of them, never mind full-blown self-reflective, conscious thoughts. So at least in the mammals with simpler brains, it seems likely that fear (and other negative emotions) could be triggered pretty directly without going through negative thoughts first, and it would also be quite surprising if we didn't all contain the same mechanisms, since we share most of our neural architecture with all mammals. Do you think these considerations are valid, and if yes, are they compatible with your approach? After listening to your podcast, my own mental model of negative emotions is something like this: stimuli can cause negative emotions directly; this happens in all mammals when the stimulus goes away, negative emotions also ebb and go away after a certain time, unless something keeps them alive in humans (and likely in at least some mammals), thoughts also can trigger emotions, and so they can disable the natural dampening of negative emotions. This mental model might explain satisfy both the evolutionary considerations, and explain the data you've gathered from the Feeling Great app. I admit I feel a bit silly writing you this, because you spend so much more mental energy on these topics, so it seems unlikely I have anything to contribute that you and your team didn't think of. So, sorry for the long rambling, and I hope you still find something interesting in it, or maybe you can clear up some of my confusion about your model. Best regards, Moritz David’s reply Thank you for your thoughtful comments. I think they are awesome, and definitely not “silly.” Here’s my take on it, for what it’s worth, and I just speculate, too. All animals, including human animals, have perceptions. When a dear spots a cayote, the "stimulus" is a perception of a dangerous predator. This "cognition" triggers the emotion. People think cognition means sentences involving words, but my understanding is quite different. The idea is that any kind of conscious perception can trigger emotions, including sudden fear or anxiety. The perception might simply be an image, which is also a type of cognition or perception, that can suddenly trigger great fear. When I see a rock climber on TV, this "picture" or “perception” stimulates a powerful physiological fear reaction. That's because I "see" the picture as being incredibly dangerous and imagine falling. Thanks, david Might use as an ask David follow up, if that's okay! Moritz replies Ok, "simple" cognition without explicit thought can be enough to trigger emotion, got it. Feel free to use that as an Ask David if you want. Regards, Moritz David’s final reply Thanks, yes, it is the perception of danger that triggers the fear. Terrific! As another example, you could argue that when the airplanes flex into the World Trade Center in New York on 9/11, everyone felt terrified, horrified, and devastated, and it was the event that caused these feelings. Doesn’t this prove that thoughts, or cognitions, are not required to have powerful feelings? It would seem like you didn’t have to put a thought in your mind to feel fearful when watching the horrifying images on TV. What do you think, Moritz? Well, here’s my answer. It is not true that everyone had the same feelings watching that horrifying scene. We all had our own unique reactions, depending on how we were thinking about it. And of course, some people felt joy, glee, and more, and did NOT have negative feelings. That’s because they thought about the event quite differently. For example, Osama Bin Lauden and his followers when watching were delighted, and like thinking, “Those Americans finally got what they deserved!” Same event—radically different emotional reactions. All of your emotions result from your thoughts. The positive and negative events of our lives do not, and cannot, affect us directly. We have to interpret the event first and give it meaning. Thanks! David 3. Rob asks: How often should you do Daily Mood Logs? Do YOU fill out your own Daily Mood Logs? Hello Rhonda and David: I hope you're both doing well. I'm a long-time listener to your podcast, and I shared an endorsement that you included in podcast episode 333 about two years ago. While listening to an episode recently, some questions occurred to me that I wanted to share with you. How often do you fill out your own daily mood journals? Do you do one every day? Would you be willing to share recent examples of your own journals with podcast listeners? I can understand how you might not want to do this and certainly respect your right to privacy, but I thought also it might be interesting for listeners to hear. I would be honored if you would share your thoughts with me when you have a moment. Rob Robinson All the replies to this excellent question will be spontaneous and live on the podcast. 4. Brittany asks: Why can’t my husband express his feelings? Hi Dr. Burns, I have a question. This is something that frequently comes up in arguments with my husband. Here is an example from yesterday: Me after finding out he was upset the night before I said: “Why did you tell me everything was fine and it’s all in my head if you were upset?” Husband: I shouldn’t have to tell you. You should be better at reading me. I feel annoyed because when I did ask him if he was upset the night before, he denied it then put the blame on me the next day that I should be able to read his mind. That doesn’t seem fair. I don’t suppose I could put that in my five secrets response though as it wouldn’t make the problem better. What do you think? I guess I should probably do the relationship journal. -Brittany David’s reply Hi Brittany, Here’s my quick assessment. Your first statement to him when he said he’d been upset sounded a bit blaming. In other words, he was trying to express his feelings openly and told you he’d actually been feeling upset. And you immediately punished him. Can you see that? In other words, you said: “Why did you tell me everything was fine and it’s all in my head if you were upset?” Can you see that when he confided that he had been feeling upset, you blamed him for not telling you the night before. He might have felt scolded, put down. What do you think about that? And could that be why he has trouble expressing his feelings? Can I use this on an Ask David, with your first name or with a fake name? And yes, you can use the Relationship Journal on situations like this! For sure! Go for it! Sorry if this sounds harsh or direct. You know, I hope, that I have tremendous regard for you! David Other ideas include: When we blame others, we are nearly always CAUSING the very problem we are complaining about. Our anger and frustration nearly always results from “Should Statements.” In other words, he “should” have expressed his feelings sooner, and better, etc. This sounds like you expect him to be some ideal husband, rather than a real husband. I sometimes also have trouble expressing my feelings, or even knowing clearly what or who I’m upset with, or why. And I always appreciate a little bit of help at figuring that out! /episode/index/show/feelinggood/id/36272330

447: Perfectionism Update, Featuring Adam Holman 05/05/2025

447: Perfectionism Update, Featuring Adam Holman Perfectionism Update Featuring Adam Holman Today we are joined by Adam Holman, LCSW. Adam has recently left his full time clinical practice in Arizona to join our Feeling Great app team here in San Francisco. I think you’ll be delighted by his warmth and wisdom. Although he works with us full-time, he still practices one day per week and specializes in X depression, anxiety, and screen addiction(e.g. video game addiction and more.) He has appeared on two previous Feeling Good Podcasts, # X and # Y. We are delighted to have Adam as the honored guest on today’s Ask David podcast! Today’s questions come all the way from North Macedonia! Dear Dr. Burns, Thank you so much for your kind response. I’d be truly honored if my questions could be considered for a future episode of your Ask David podcast. Your work has been a key influence in my research on perfectionism and its cognitive-behavioral aspects. Here are a few brief questions I’m currently exploring: How has your view of perfectionism evolved since Feeling Good? What strategies have you found most effective for challenging perfectionistic thinking in therapy? Is perfectionism often rooted in a fear of not being “good enough”? How does it typically manifest in academic or professional environments? If you happen to include any of these in a future episode, I’d be grateful if you could let me know so I can tune in. Thank you again for your time and for the lasting impact of your work. Warm regards, Mitko Toshev Doctoral Student Faculty of Pedagogy University “St. Kliment Ohridski” – Bitola North Macedonia David’s Reply Yes, this will make for an excellent podcast with a refresher on perfectionism, featuring questions from Mitko and a spirited discussion with Adam, Rhonda and yours truly! We had an in depth discussion of all the latest bells and whistles in the treatment of perfectionism with TEAM CBT. This included the two very different but complementary approaches to treating depression or any of the 23 common Self-Defeating Beliefs. So, if you’ve ever struggle with the thought that you’re not good enough, or that you SHOULDN’T have made this or that mistake, this podcast will be right up your alley! Thanks, Mitko! david /episode/index/show/feelinggood/id/36272250

446 Gender-Affirming, Life-Saving Medical Care, featuring Stanford's Dr. Rachel Sewell 04/28/2025

446 Gender-Affirming, Life-Saving Medical Care, featuring Stanford's Dr. Rachel Sewell 446 Who am I? Medical Help that Saves Children’s Lives Featuring Dr. Rachel Sewall: “I want to shout from the mountain tops!” Today we hear from Rachel Sewell, M.D., a Stanford pediatric endocrinologist who provides medically necessary care for transgender and gender diverse young people. She shares how in a time when there is a lot of inaccurate information being spread about this vulnerable population she will continue to advocate for them by providing education and accurate information, including by being a guest on this podcast. She says: When I was a medical student, I wasn’t initially sure what type of medical practice I would pursue. However, I always knew I’d be an advocate for LGBTQ+ patients . As a first-year medical student, I trained and worked in the emergency room. I quickly realized, as did my mentors, that I enjoyed and was excellent at working with children, so I focused on pediatrics. That summer I had the chance to do research in endocrinology which is the study of all hormones. Think of hormones as messages that travel throughout our bodies delivering important information. Hormones are responsible for so many important functions including keeping our bones healthy, helping us grow, using the energy from our food, and causing kid bodies to change into adult bodies. My work with transgender and gender diverse children and teens involves providing evidence-based holistic care with a skilled team of clinicians. More than anything, my patients want to be respected, heard, and allowed to thrive. . In providing them care,I bear witness to intense conversations, emotional highs and lows, as well as the purest examples of joy. Throughout it all, it is my privilege and pleasure to provide them gender affirming care. During this episode we reviewed definitions of gender identity vs the sex assigned to someone at birth. We review the common times when young folks share their gender identity with the people in their lives as well as what it means to be cisgender vs transgender. We discuss sexual orientation and gender identity and how these are complicated and independent aspects of everyone’s sense of self. Rachel continued, Medically necessary care for transgender and gender diverse patients is life-saving. Imagine, you know you are male but your body has a period every month. This can be profoundly distressing and results in gender dysphoria. Gender dysphoria is the intense discomfort that results from your identity not aligning with your body and negatively impacts people’s everyday lives. Now imagine being told that there are safe and effective ways to avoid experiencing that distress. I have had numerous patients say that the care they receive has saved their life. When people hear gender affirming care it often leads them to think of care provided to transgender and gender diverse people but everyone deserves access to gender affirming care. Because it is simply a model of care that recognizes the importance of and validates people’s identities and experiences. Other examples of gender affirming care include being able to take a medicine to help prevent hair loss on your head or undergoing a breast reconstruction surgery after having breast tissue removed in the fight against cancer. When discussing possible ways to support a patient’s identity I tell families that there is no one size fits all. Everyone’s journey is completely unique. For some patients, having their legal documents align with their chosen name is the most important thing. For others, they alter their gender expression, aka the way they present themselves to and interact with the world around them with things like hair changes, makeup, clothes etc. to align with their identity. For some folks it is important to pursue hormone therapy. And for some they will end up pursuing surgical interventions when they are adults. I also discuss that the timing of sharing your gender identity if it does not align with your sex assigned at birth varies tremendously. But regardless of age, gender-affirming medical care always makes a tremendous difference in peoples’ lives! Rhonda and I are deeply grateful to Rachel for giving us this wonderfully patient and clear education in a field that was not even covered, to the best of my knowledge, when I was a medical student at Stanford. We hope your voice today, Rachel, will be heard by many, and will hep to bring greater peace, acceptance, love and understanding to our many podcast fans. Thanks! Rachel, Rhonda, and David /episode/index/show/feelinggood/id/36272170

#445 Awesome Interviewing Secrets featuring Dr. Kyle Jones 04/21/2025

#445 Awesome Interviewing Secrets featuring Dr. Kyle Jones Secrets of Superb Interviewing-- How to Be Everyone's Number 1 Choice! Today we feature our beloved Kyle Jones, Ph.D, a clinical psychologist who suggested we might do a really cool podcast on the interviewing skills featured in Chapter 16 of my Feeling Good Handbook. Rhonda and I are absolutely delighted to welcome Kyle for his third appearance on to the Feeling Good Podcast. (Rhonda had to excuse herself after introducing this episode because she was not feeling well) In that chapter on interviewing skills, I listed the five basic principles of successfully interviewing for a job, for admissions to a school, or really almost any type of interview at all. I have to warn you that these ideas may be unfamiliar, and will definitely be quite different from what you've been taught about winning interviews. #1: Be personable and friendly. Don't try to impress the person who's interviewing you! #2 Make them sell themselves to you. #3 Be honest, but present yourself in a positive light. #4 Don't get defensive. #5 Punt when you don't know the answer to the question. To illustrate the first idea, I told a story from Dale Carnegie's book on How to Win Friends and Influence People, in which he describes his interview with a wealth and powerful man in the hopes of soliciting a donation for the Boy Scouts of America. This was back in the era many years ago when the Scouts were still very popular. The receptionist who made the appointment warned Dale Carnegie that he would have only 15 minutes, and emphasized that her boss was 100% meticulous about time. He started exactly on time, and ended exactly on time, whether or not you were done, so he better talk fast once the interview started. When the time came, and Dale Carnegie entered the office, the receptionist again reminded him that he'd be kicked out after 15 minutes no matter what! As he walked in, Dale Carnegie spotted a trophy fish proudly displayed on the wall above the rich man's desk, and asked, if the wealthy man he'd caught it. himself, The rich man said he had caught it in lake so and so. Dale Carnegie got excited and said, "I fish there too. Where, exactly, were you fishing on the lake when you caught this fish?" The man told him where his favorite fishing hole was, and they become engrossed in a vibrant conversation about the joys of fishing. Suddenly, the office door opened, and the receptionist appeared and said the time was up. On the way out, the wealthy man said, "Oh, I forgot to ask you what the purpose of the interview was." Dale Carnegie said, "Oh, I'm sorry, I forgot to mention that I am trying to raise money to support the Boy Scouts of America." The man replied, "You'll receive a check in the mail tomorrow for a million dollars." And those were the days when that was an enormous amount of money. What's the moral of the story? Relate to the person who's interviewing you as a person, and show an interest in them, instead of pitching your talking points and trying to impress them. People usually make decisions influenced greatly by how much they like the person they are talking to. Don't try to be impressive. Aim for friendly, real and human. How do you do this? Well, let's say that you have an interview with a law firm, hoping to get hired, and you're just out of law school. I used to be the shrink for the University of Pennsylvania Law School, and at the time there were too many law school graduates looking for too few job openings, and almost no one was hiring. They referred despondent and panicky students to me who'd had a string of rejections. At the time, the top firms had at least 50 to 100 top notch candidates for every position. Was there any hope of starting their careers? I told them to do some research on the person who was going to interview them, or on their firm. Find something interesting about them. Then, at the start of the interview you can say something like this: "I'm so excited to meet you because I've been following your work for some time. I was amazed and blown away by your strategy in the X, Y, and Z case, and I was wondering if you're still using that approach in litigation and how it's been working out? I'd love to hear more about your work, and how you came up with the approach you're using, and what you like the best about this firm." This will get them to talking about themselves. DON'T try to impress them with how great you are . That will just bore them, or turn them off, and it will certainly put you under pressure to perform. This pressure will probably make you anxious, and your anxiety and insecurity will show. Instead, impress them with how great THEY are. They'll love you! I trained the students in this doing role-playing of imaginary job interviews. Every student I trained in this approach became the #1 choice at every firm they interviewed at! This approach is not just for law students, it's for every type of job, as well as interviews for college, graduate school, and more. Here's the underlying idea. People don't really care much about you. They care about themselves. This is true of all of us. So, use this to your advantage, and you'll suddenly be super happy and glad you were OTHER centered and not SELF centered! Does this mean you should hide your own skills and accomplishments? Of course now. You can answer questions about what you offer with humility and integrity. But that alone will rarely be enough. #2 Make them sell themselves to you. Let's say you're applying for graduate school, and it's very competitive. Again, they have 100 brilliant candidates for every position. Suppose the interview says something challenging, like "As you know, all the top candidates in the Unites States apply to us here at Harvard. Most of them were #1 in the their college classes and several have already been nominated for Nobel Prizes. Why should we be interested in you?" This, of course, is absurd, but I'm taking the worst imaginable question in an interview. Yikes! This sounds impossible, right? How in the world could you respond? Actually, it's easy. You can just say, "Gosh, I don't know if I'd be a good fit here. That's what I'm hoping to learn today. Maybe you can tell me what you're looking for in a top notch candidate. What kinds of candidates have gone on to be stars, and what types have been disappointments? Then I can give you a better answer on whether or not I might be a good fit. Although I love your company, and I'm so impressed with your own career, I wouldn't want to accept a job unless I was convinced I could really contribute to your firm." Is this realistic, or just some David fantasy? During my senior year in college, I was planning to go to graduate school in clinical psychology, since I'd majored in philosophy and psychology seemed like a way more practical career. However, my college adviser said that medical school would be a far better choice because medications were becoming more and more important in treating mental illnesses, and only psychiatrists could prescribe drugs. I told him that I'd never had any interest in being a medical doctor, and wasn't even a premed student, so there was no way I could get into medical school. I hadn't even had a single biology class in college. He said "That won't be a problem I don't think. You've got the gift of gab, and they probably won't even notice." So, I applied to a number of medical schools and landed an interview at Stanford, and several others. My interview was with someone in the Anatomy Department which was located in the basement of the museum on campus. I went down the stairs and into a room where I met the man who was interviewing me. I said, "It's a bit dark down here. Is this where the medical students dissect their cadavers?" He said, "Absolutely. But it's actually pretty awesome down here. In fact, my laboratory his just down the hall. I said, "Oh, could I see your laboratory? I'd love to take a look and find out what kind of research you do." He seemed excited and as we walked into his lab I noticed all kinds of fancy equipment and read the name on one of them, so kind of photometer or something. I had no idea what it was, but said, "Oh, I see you have an X, Y Z photometer. (or whatever it was). Do you use this in your research?" He said, "Oh, absolutely, it's extremely important in my research." I asked him about the research he did. He excitedly started explaining it, and for the most part I had no idea what he was talking about, but kept expressing interest and asking him for more and more information. I was terrified that he'd ask me questions about my undergraduate work and my research, which of course did not exist. I'd never done any research! Just philosophy classes and such. Well, we had quite the conversation, but after a while he suddenly looked at his watch and said, "Oh, my goodness. We were only supposed to talk for 15 minutes, and we've been talking for nearly two hours. I have to rush over to the medical school quad for an important meeting I'm almost late for. Why don't we walk over in that direction together?" As we were walking out of the basement, he said, "Oh, my goodness, I forgot to ask you who you are and where you're from." I said, "Oh, I'm David Burns from Amherst College." He said, "Well, David Burns, I want you to know that you're the kind of young man we need at the Stanford Medical School.!" I said, "It's really kind of you to say that, but I'm afraid I won't be able to come to the Stanford for medical school." He said, "That's nonsense? Of course you can come! Do you think Harvard is going to make you a better offer? We'll top anything they offer." I said, "Oh no, sir, that's not it. You see, my father is a minister, and we don't have much money, and I've heard that attending medical school would cost more than one hundred thousand dollars. And he believes that borrowing money is a sin." He said, "David Burns, I'm the head of the admissions committee, and that's where I'm headed right now. And I'm going to tell them that you're the #1 choice for admission this year. And you won't have to pay a thing. We'll pay for tuition, room, board, books, expenses, everything. It won't cost you one cent to go to Sanford medical school." I said, "Oh, thank you so much! That's an offer I can't refuse!" I got my acceptance letter two days later and the rest, as they say, is history. But to spell it out. Why was I accepted to a top-flight, highly competitive program when I had absolutely NO credentials? Because I expressed an interest in him, and I was friendly, and I believe that meant a great deal to him. And I'll always be grateful for his help. My wife and I returned to Stanford almost 30 years ago, where I've served on the voluntary (unpaid) faculty at the medical school, teaching and doing research and continuing to develop TEAM CBT. I turned out to be a terrible medical student, and dropped out for a full year on two different times because I just wasn't the "medical" type. I had very little aptitude or interest in medicine. But I did end up as a psychiatrist, and came to love medicine and healing people who were suffering, and doing research. And my voluntary work is my way of trying to repay my tremendous debt to Stanford! And I'll never forget the kind gentleman who interviewed me. Kyle and I jammed on all five examples, including many additional stories to bring these ideas to life. Kyle used this strategy when interview for his internship in psychology, and it worked like a charm. I would say that I've taught many people how to use these ideas, including family members, students, and colleagues. The impact has been nothing short of incredible. That probably sounds over the top, and I "get it." But the stories are true, and the ideas can change your life. Remember what the Buddha said, 2500 years ago: "Selling yourself sucks! So, Stop it, and do what works!" Warmly, Rhonda, Kyle, and David Contact information Kyle is a superb TEAM CBT therapist who practices virtually throughout California. Here's his contact information: /episode/index/show/feelinggood/id/36225990

444: I'm angry! Live Work with Sunny, Part 2 04/14/2025

444: I'm angry! Live Work with Sunny, Part 2 I’m angry! A Once-UndocumentedImmigrant Speaks from the Heart-- Live Work with Sunny, Part 2 Last week you heard Part 1 of the Live work with Sunny, who’s struggling with radically conflicting emotions. On the one hand, he has finally achieved his dream of an incredibly happy and fulfilling life, but he is frequently plunged into profound despair, fear, and anger because of the increasingly adverse political climate for people who are “different”—in gender identity, sexual orientation, nationality, political beliefs, skin color, and more. And he is shocked, fearful, and angered by the mean-spirited treatment so many are receiving—and which Sunny has endured throughout much of his life as well. Today, you will hear about how we set the A = agenda for our session with Sunny, along with the M = Methods we used. You can find Sunny’s goals for each negative feeling at the end of the Positive Reframing, and at the end of M = Methods, if you His scores on the Empathy and Helpfulness Scales in the Evaluation of Therapy Session were perfect. Here are some of the take-home lessons from this session with Sunny. 1. Unhealthy negative feelings result from distorted negative thoughts, like “I’ll be miserable forever.” Healthy negative feelings, in contrast, result from thoughts that are realistic and, for the most part, undistorted. Healthy negative feelings do not usually require any kind of “treatment,” but skillful empathic listening and support will nearly always be appreciated. 2. Empathy can be very powerful, and it is absolutely necessary for a meaningful therapeutic relationship, but empathy alone is not enough to change the way someone feels. 3. Finding compassion for someone who has harmed you, while extremely challenging, can also bring you peace. 4. Emotions such as anger, sadness, and anxiety are important protective instincts. And one can feel these emotions and be compassionate and loving at the same time. 5. As a therapist it can be tempting to either assume that you can’t help a patient because their feelings are “normal,” or to try to cheerlead or problem-solve for a patient to cheer them up, but the TEAM-CBT model allows us to collaborate with the patient, understand when and how they want to change, honor their resistance to change, and offer them the tools they need to change in a way that honors their values. Thank you so much for listening and joining us. Rhonda, Jill and I are deeply indebted to you, Sunny, for your courage and vulnerability last week and today, letting us into your world on such a personal level. We love you and will always be grateful to have you in our lives, both professionally and personally! Sunny, Rhonda, Jill, and David /episode/index/show/feelinggood/id/36013650

443: I'm angry! Live Work with Sunny, Part 1 04/07/2025

443: I'm angry! Live Work with Sunny, Part 1 I’m angry! A Once-UndocumentedImmigrant Speaks from the Heart-- Live Work with Sunny, Part 1 Sunny Choi is a beloved member of the TEAM community. He grew up in Hong Kong before emigrating with his family to the United States when he was 11 years old. He graduated from UCLA with a major in engineering, completed a master’s degree in Engineering Management at Stanford, and developed a successful career in high tech Silicon Valley companies. However, he left his work to pursue additional graduate training in clinical social work because he discovered that his strongest call was to help individuals who were being marginalized by American culture and suffering. He then obtained an MSW degree with a specialty in Community Mental Health from California State University. We were fortunate when Sunny discovered and joined our free Stanford TEAM CBT training group, and blossomed into an expert TEAM therapist and beloved colleague and friend. Today, Dr. Jill Levitt and I worked with Sunny because he requested a session to work on his own troubled feelings concerning the recent political developments. He emphasized that he wanted to do personal work, rather than focusing too heavily on the current political controversies and battles. You can find the Daily Mood Log (DML) that Sunny prepared just prior to his session if you As you can see, at the top of his DML, he described the upsetting event as tearing up when he was teaching a class and discussing a case of a transgender Mexican American man, and he began reflecting on his own memories of growing up as a gay male and undocumented immigrant. Sadness and anger were the two strongest negative feelings (rated 70 and 80, respectively on a scale from 0 to 100), although he was also moderately anxious, guilty, rejected, hopeless, and frustrated. You can also see the ten negative thoughts he recorded on his DML, and how strongly he believed each one, on a scale from 0 (not at all) to 1000 (completely.). During the session he added three more thoughts: 11. I (shouldn’t be) living such a happy and pleasurable life when others are suffering. 70% 12. I should be helping others more. 80% 13. I have to figure out the correct way to be thinking and feeling. 50% At the start of the session, he said that he felt vulnerable and nervous discussing such personal feelings, memories, and thoughts. He also said that after doing much personal and professional work, he was generally happy and loving, but felt profoundly disturbed when he thought about so many people who are suffering. He said, “Many of my clients are being deported. And those who are gay are worried that they’ll lose access to their medications.” These were the kinds of thoughts that triggered his feelings of guilt. During the empathy phase, Jill mentioned that she felt honored to be talking to Sunny today and proud to be a member of a community where you can reach out when you’re suffering. She added that she felt torn, as I did, because it seemed to us that many of his negative thoughts were realistic, and not distorted, and that it makes sense to feel sad, anxious, worried, and angry. For example, his first negative thought on his DML was, “The world is much more unstable and dangerous now.” Sunny emphasized that most of the time he does feel happy, especially when involved with friends and family, and doing the things he loves. But then he gets confused and guilty, wondering if it is right to feel happy when things are looking so dark for so many people. It certainly makes sense to feel unhappy when, as Sunny said, some of his clients and friends have lost their jobs and people in the LGBTQ+ community are afraid they’ll get deported. And we’re all afraid to speak up and talk about diversity, which has become a dirty word that can get you into trouble. And when Sunny thinks about this, he feels profound sadness and compassion. But as previously noted, this has caused confusion for Sunny, and he struggles with feelings of guilt about the fact that he is truly happy so much of the time. He’s happy about his beautiful life, his marriage, and more—this, in fact, is his happiest he’s ever been. Here’s how he puts it: “I used to be undocumented. The experience and the hostility and bias I confronted traumatized me. And when I heard Trump talk about all the ‘murders and rapists’ invading our country from Mexico, I became tearful. I feel angry—they don’t think we’re human. “I want people to be more compassionate. . . . To say we’re rapists and criminals, it’s not okay. . . it’s mean, and it’s very harmful to mental health. . . . It’s like repeatedly poking at someone who is recovering from a terrible wound, and it hurts.” Jill was touched, and found Sunny’s vulnerability heart-warming, beautiful, and refreshing. Rhonda reminded us that unless we are Indigenous Native Americans, all Americans are descended from immigrants. In my own case, all my ancestors came from Sweden in the late 1800s during the potato famine. Sunny pointed out the European immigrants have not been discriminated against in the same way as the Africans, Asians, Latinos, Islamic, and dark-skinned individuals: “Let’s be open. It’s racism. I felt it right from the start.” Sunny gave us an A+ on empathy, and then we worked to set the agenda for the session. What did Sunny hope to get from the session? What did he want help with? What changes was he hoping for? He said: “Maybe my feelings are appropriate, but some may be too intense. My goal is to find peace; to have hope, and to try to do something to help. . . I want to feel proud of who I am and what I stand for. I want to try to be loving and compassionate, even to people who don’t have the same beliefs and values. . . . Although that can be incredibly challenging!” When you listen to today’s podcast, you will hear the T = Testing and E = Empathy portions of the session. Next week, you will hear the A = Paradoxical Agenda Setting and M = Methods portions along with the conclusion, including the final T = Testing to evaluate his end of session scores on the Brief Mood Survey and Evaluation of Therapy Session. Thank you for joining us. Rhonda, Jill, Sunny, and I appreciate all of you! /episode/index/show/feelinggood/id/36013500

442: Eliminate Anxiety Fast: The Awesome Hidden Emotion Technique 03/31/2025

442: Eliminate Anxiety Fast: The Awesome Hidden Emotion Technique Ask David: The Awesome Hidden Emotion Technique Featuring Matthew May, MD with Rhonda and David The following answers to Ask David questions were written prior to the live podcast where Matt, David, Rhonda, and others discuss the questions in real time. Their answers may differ from Dr. Burns responses listed below. 1. Michael asks: How did you invent the Hidden Emotion Technique? It’s been incredibly helpful to me! Hello, Dr. Burns, Your lifelong work continues to be invaluable to me and so many others, and I apologize if this question was answered on a previous podcast. To my knowledge, it hasn't been. I was wondering how you discovered or created the hidden emotion model? I recently struggled with inexplicable death anxiety that came on every night since college started back up, and I was at a loss, until I remembered the hidden emotion model and wondered if there was something I wasn't acknowledging? Sure enough, I discovered I was actually quite resentful of my new schedule not allowing me to easily fit the gym into my schedule unless I wanted to forgo valuable sleep. Once I had addressed this resentment, the death anxiety vanished. I would love to know how this wonderful technique became part of your phenomenal practice! -Sincerely, Michael Polus. David’s reply You can read all about it in When Panic Attacks, when I learned about it accidentally based on an interaction with a patient who was stuck. Perhaps we can answer it on a podcast. Thanks! david 2. Janie asks: How can I help a patient who ruminates? My client ruminates, that is she experiences repetitive thoughts about conversations and gets stuck in the negative feelings that come from dwelling on those thoughts and conversations. She has referred to it as repetitive thinking about conversations that were distressing in some way. She replays the conversation in her head, and evaluates and re-evaluates her responses. She then plays the conversation using possible different responses she COULD have used and worries whether these would have been better responses. The first individual is a friend where the friendship is very challenging and interwoven into many parts of my patient's life. My patient ruminates about conversations and wonders over and over if she said the right thing or wonders how the friend took what was said. It is a loop that my patient often gets stuck in for long periods of the day. The second individual is my patient's husband. With him, she ruminates about how to say things to him so she can motivate him to be involved in the ways she wants him to be. We will work on these relationships using the 5 secrets eventually, but first she'd like to work on the rumination because it takes up so much of her time. How can I help her? David’s Reply I would recommend TEAM CBT in a step-by-step manner. I do not, in general, like to throw techniques at people based on a description of a problem. Motivational techniques to reduce resistance and bring resistance to conscious awareness. Paradoxical Cost-Benefit Analysis Dangling the Carrot / Gentle Ultimatum / Sitting with Open Hands The Hidden Emotion Technique What If / Downward Arrow Technique ERP (Exposure plus response prevention) Many other techniques inspired by methods a and b above (TEAM CBT) Feared Fantasy: confronting her worst fear Five Secrets of Effective Communication Work on acceptance: she is perfectionistic and self-critical Hidden Emotion: anger Thanks for listening (and reading the show notes), David, Rhonda and Matt /episode/index/show/feelinggood/id/35891875

441: David, Rhonda and Matt Answer Your Questions about Relationships, Dating, and Religion 03/24/2025

441: David, Rhonda and Matt Answer Your Questions about Relationships, Dating, and Religion Ask David My friend won’t say thank you! Dating Anxiety Religion vs. Psychotherapy We want to remind you about an awesome virtual workshop on habits and addictions that Dr. Jill Levitt and David will be presenting on March 28, 2025 We will feature powerful new paradoxical techniques that will blow your socks off. It will be from 8:30 to 4:30 and you will earn 7 CE credits while having fun and learning how to heal yourself AND you patients. Check it out! It's less than two weeks away, some check it out while you still have time! You'' LOVE it and LEARN a LOT! As is so often the case, the answers to these questions that appear in the show notes were email replies to the person before the show. To get the full discussion, make sure you listen to the actual podcast, as the answers often evolve in unexpected ways when the “experts” hash it out! Today’s episode is chock full of personal stories (some racy), expert Five Secrets advice and demonstration, philosophical / spiritual discussion, and secrets of successful (and racy) dating. 1. Brittany asks: What can I do say to a friend who does not say “thank you” when I pay for our meal or drive a long distance just to see them? 2. Jaydipe asks: How can I get over my anxiety around attractive women? 3. Ali asks: Can religious beliefs cause or intensify feelings of anxiety? (David will talk about the synergies between TEAM CBT and spirituality in all religions. He will also mention the potential antagonisms.) 1. Brittany asks: What can I do say to a friend who does not say “thank you” when I pay for our meal or drive a long distance just to see them. Hello David and Rhonda, I have a friend who typically does not say thank you to me when I pay for a meal out or drive us a long distance. I am someone who always says thank you even if the other person just bought us $10 worth of fast food or gave a short ride. I find myself feeling resentful towards my friend for not saying anything when I pay and drive us around all day. It makes me feel like they don’t appreciate it. At the same time, talking about it and sharing my feelings would then feel like I’m asking them to say it, and then it would not feel authentic. I have said something about it in the past, and they were like I’m sorry, thank you. But it didn’t mean much at that point. Is this one of those annoying traits I just learn to accept? Thank you, Brittany David’s reply Well, you could just use a gentle I Feel statement, which might be paradoxically stronger, but combined with Stroking. Like this, "Jennie, you know I think the world of you, and greatly enjoy our times together, but when I pay for lunch, or drive a distance to hang out with you, you rarely ever say "thank you," and then I feel hurt and unappreciated." Something like that combines Stroking with I Feel and might be effective. But I always rate myself on what I do, or say, and not so much on how the other person reacts. You could, perhaps, also ask if they are upset with you about something that they’ve had trouble expressing to you. Best, david 2. Jaydipe asks: How can I get over my anxiety around attractive women? Hi David Many thanks for the podcast I’m struggling with social anxiety and talking to attractive women and I’ve watched all the podcasts relating to it. I think deep down I have a shame around finding women attractive, so I find it difficult to express interest in them. I find that I can talk to them easily during activities like climbing or co workers, but even on dates with women I can’t seem to take things forwards playfully like you’d expect on a date. I’m too serious and I think that turns people off. I feel like I’m under the spotlight and I have to impress them otherwise they won’t like me. I know this isn’t true and I’ve been trying to get myself to do exposure therapy by asking girls for their numbers and being rejected so it helps with that. Also, I struggle with societal expectations, I hear women say that they don’t want to be approached or talked to or anything so I just end up avoiding them because I don’t want to annoy them, but it holds me back from getting the sex and relationships I want Any help much appreciated Thanks, Jaydipe David’s Reply I have included your excellent question on an upcoming Ask David. In the meantime, have you read my book on dating, Intimate Connections? Best, david PS Should I use your first name, or a fake first name? 3. Ali asks: Can religious beliefs cause or intensify feelings of anxiety? Dear Dr. Burns, After reading your books, I’ve started to recognize that many of my anxious beliefs seem to have a religious background. For example, in the Bible, there’s a verse from John 5:14: “Later Jesus found him at the temple and said to him, ‘See, you are well again. Stop sinning or something worse may happen to you.’” Here’s where I struggle: I want to live my life freely, which includes things like being with different girls before marriage (something I already do). But according to religion, this is considered adultery and a sin. Another verse that weighs heavily on me is from Matthew 5:27-29: “You have heard that it was said, ‘You shall not commit adultery.’ But I tell you that anyone who looks at a woman lustfully has already committed adultery with her in his heart. If your right eye causes you to stumble, gouge it out and throw it away. It is better for you to lose one part of your body than for your whole body to be thrown into hell.” I often find myself looking at beautiful women on the street, which Christianity teaches is sinful, and this sometimes leads to feelings of guilt. I wonder: do I need to leave religion altogether to break free from these negative, self-critical thoughts? I also have other related thoughts that seem to link my faith with the good things happening in my life. For instance: My life is going well right now. My parents are alive, my brother is getting married, I’m healthy, and I’ve been fortunate in many ways. I’ve had incredible experiences, like participating in two Erasmus+ exchange programs in Poland and Lithuania during university, volunteering in Latvia for a year, and even having my New Zealand visa approved in a highly competitive process (only 100 spots for 85 million people, and the application closed in 5 minutes!). I often think that these blessings are because I believe in Jesus, follow the Bible, and try to live as a good person who avoids sin and doesn’t deceive others. But then these anxious thoughts arise: I should always be thankful or pray, or else my life will fall apart. If I leave religion, something bad might happen—my parents could fall ill or pass away, and it would all feel like my fault for turning away from Jesus. Without faith, I’d lose my good fortune(luck), my appearance, and my opportunities. Wherever I apply to would be rejected, then I would understand that it was Jesus in the first place doing all of these things in my life, not me or vice versa! I'd find a terrible job, terrible working environment, terrible mutual relationships. Then everything would be my fault and I'd tell myself I should have believed in him in the first place but now I deserve everything that happens to me! These thoughts are overwhelming, and I’d love to hear your perspective on how to approach and challenge them. Thank you so much for your time and the invaluable insights you share in your work. Warm regards, Ali David’s reply Hi Ali, Sorry you are struggling with so many restrictions, judgments, and inhibitions! I can imagine it triggers anxiety, guilt, inadequacy, resentment, discouragement, and more. You can let me know! If you want, I can include this as an Ask David question on a podcast, with your first name, or a fake first name. Let me know if this works for you. Also, what religion are you? I know that many religions around the world can be very fundamentalistic and super strict in their teachings. My own religious upbringing had a touch of rigidity, too. Best, david Ali’s response to David Hello again, Actually, my family comes from the Christian (Orthodox-Armenian) minority in Turkey, where I was born and raised. So, I am an Orthodox Christian. You're absolutely right that I struggle with many restrictions and judgments. I’d love for you to include this as an "Ask David" question on a podcast since I haven’t seen any episode (and I’ve listened to most of your recent podcasts, including number 408: Do You Believe in God? Does God Exist?) that addresses this topic. By the way, I already use an alias, so "Ali" is a fake name, but you’re welcome to use it in your podcast! Here’s a quick DML (Daily Mood Log) to clarify what I’m dealing with: The Upsetting Event: Doing my daily half-hour Bible reading before bed and coming across certain verses. Emotions: Sad: 60% Anxious/Worried: 70% Inadequate: 60% Guilty/Bad: 90% Abandoned: 70% Pessimistic/Discouraged: 80% Stuck: 75% Angry/Resentful: 75% Tricked/Duped: 80% Although I don’t consider myself a devout Christian, over the past few years, I’ve started reading the Bible—the Old and New Testaments. Initially, I read them in my native language, but now I read in English to fully understand the content. Growing up in the church, I believed everything the priest taught. However, encountering some events and stories that seem illogical to me has made me question my beliefs. I often feel tricked and wonder if I’ve truly believed in all this. At the same time, I feel anxious and worried, as if questioning or criticizing my religion is a betrayal of God. Please let me know if you need any additional information. Ali David’s reply Thanks, Ali, this is super. I was also raised in a somewhat strict Christian (Lutheran) home, and as a child had plans to become a minister, like my dad. In college, I learned critical thinking, and began to question some of what I was taught when I was growing up. For example, there seemed to be a bit of a bias against Jews, and my dad said they had to convert to Christianity to be ”saved” and, I guess, avoid going to hell after they died. That didn’t sound right at all, not loving, as Christ taught, who was himself a Jew, but hostile and judgmental. And I had good friends who were Jewish, so it felt offensive. Same with people who were gay. A strong bias that this was somehow “bad” and sinful, or something like that. Christianity, in the sense of the Catholic church, was really created by people a couple hundred years after Christ died, and they were reflecting their own human biases when they wrote the new testament and translated the old testaments. For better or worse, I am personally not afraid to disagree with much of what is in the Bible, and interpret it, not literally, but as a series of stories trying to communicate important spiritual truths, but these truths get quite distorted when people began focusing on literal truths, rather than “seeing” the message. Literal translations of religion risk missing the spiritual meaning and truth. This is especially true of the orthodox movement within any religion. This tendency toward being literal, rigid, and judgmental may be a partially inherited, genetic trait. Regardless, to me, it is offensive and ugly, and definitely not religious, but quite the opposite. In the early days, lots of religious cults emerged, and they all had their own special leaders. If your leader couldn’t walk on water, that guru was considered inferior. So, it was fashionable to say that your spiritual guru could “walk on water.” What does that really mean? To me, it means that this person is pretty special, and much kinder and more loving than most others, and can perhaps convey some spiritual truths to us. But actual walking on water is a magic trick best left to television and stage magicians. This is my thinking only, and I do not wish to impose my thinking and beliefs on you or on anybody! I had tremendous respect and admiration for a Catholic nun, Sister Shela Flynn, who worked at my clinic in Philadelphia because she wanted to learn how to do CBT. She was humble and wonderful, and once shared with me that she also thought the stories in the bible were primarily metaphors, just stories trying to convey this or that idea about love, humility, and so forth. Not literally true stories you “had to” believe to be a “good Christian.” An, in addition, using my philosophy and CBT training, there is really no such “thing” as a “good Christian.” Positive and negative labels can be useful but can also be hurtful and destructive. Will stop babbling, and feel free to reject or ignore some or everything I am saying! But on an emotional level, I feel hurt, and angry about the literal “rules-based” versions of religion. Because I see, all over the world, atrocities being committed to a massive degree in the name of this or that “religion.” I am most comfortable with Buddhism, but even then, many people take it literally, make up rules, and so forth, just like other religions or spiritual “paths.” For some reason, people love to make up rules and then try to force others to conform to their beliefs and rules. This is due, in large part, to arrogance, and the desire to feel “special” and “superior” to others. These are not, to my way of thinking, spiritual qualities, but quite the opposite. Finally, I do not mention religion in my therapy, which is 100% secular, and based on research and on scientific research on how people actually change. But at the moment of recovery, which often happens in a flash, rather suddenly, the patient often “sees” something of a spiritual nature which they had not seen or grasped before. I have never seen anyone lose their religious beliefs because of effective therapy, but quite the opposite. In fact, what we might call “recovery from depression” (or some other problem) sometimes looks an awful lot like what the religious mystics from all religions have called “enlightenment.” So, that’s the sermon my dad would have perhaps wanted me to preach from a pulpit! I guess this is my pulpit, and you are in my congregation! And this Sunday morning here in Los Altos, so that’s the end of today’s sermon! Best, david Contact information You can sign up for the David and Jill workshop on healthier habits here: /episode/index/show/feelinggood/id/35886510

440: Who is the REAL David? 03/17/2025

440: Who is the REAL David? Getting to Know David David Answers Personal Questions! We all know David Burns as the creator of TEAM-CBT, but not many people get to know David, the person. It is fun to know David the person, because he is just like all of us. He is a real person (not a robot), full of life and love. I want everyone in our audience to be able to relate to David on a deeper level, to feel a sense of connection with him, and hopefully for all of us to build our sense of community with each other. Thanks so much to Stan Dickens, TEAM UK, for submitting these questions and sparking this discussion. The complete list of questions was much longer, but I (Rhonda) have selected the ones listed below. I hope you like listening to this podcast, Rhonda The questions are not necessarily in the order listed below, but all are answered on this podcast. David’s answers are all 100% spontaneous, and you will hear them on the podcast! Music & Entertainment 1. Which band do you like most, the Beatles or the Rolling Stones? (David, please say The Beatles!) 2. Following on from that, what kind of music do you listen to? Can you tell us about some of your favorite musicians, bands, or composers? Here are some links to just a few of a great many favorite songs of mine. David Tom Waits Never Let Go (of your hand) Rickey Nelson It’s Up to You James Brown Please Please Please Mick Jagger and Muddy Waters Please Don’t Go! Jim Croce I’ll have to say I love you in a song Last Train Home Pat Metheny Lucy Thomas “Hallelujah” 3. If your life were turned into a film, who would play you? 4. Can you speak with an English accent? Would you be brave enough to give it a try right now? Career & Professional Reflections 5. If you hadn’t dedicated your life to cognitive behavioral therapy and mental health or authored Feeling Good, what might you have done instead? 6. Is there a common misconception about you or your work that you’d like to clear up? Personal Insights & Philosophy 7. If you could have dinner with three historical or modern figures, dead or alive, who would it be and why? 8. If you could give your younger self just one piece of advice, what would it be? 9. How did you meet Melanie, and what do you love most about her? /episode/index/show/feelinggood/id/35592825

439: The Vape Escape! 03/10/2025

439: The Vape Escape! Vaping--Why and How I Quit. Featuring Dr. Kyle Jones Today we feature a beloved friend and esteemed colleague, Dr. Kyle Jones who will talk to us how he escaped from his vaping addiction. Kyle is a clinical psychologist in private practice, now residing in Los Angeles. However, he works virtually throughout California. He co-leads the OCD Consultation Group, a monthly consultation group for clinicians wanting to improve their competence in treating OCD. He also servs on the adjunct faculty at Palo Alto University where he teaches in the clinical psychology masters and PhD programs. He's recently joined the alumni council in the Department of Psychological and Brain Sciences at the University of California, Santa Barbara. This is the fourth in our recent series on TEAM CBT for habits and addictions (431, Screen Addictions with Brandon Vance; 437, Porn Addiction with Thai An Truong; 438, Overcoming Habits & Addictions with Jill Leavitt). We want to remind you about an awesome virtual workshop on habits and addictions that Dr. Jill Levitt and I will be presenting on March 28th. We will feature powerful new paradoxical techniques that will blow your socks off. It will be from 8:30 to 4:30 and you will earn 7 CE credits while having fun and learning how to heal yourself AND you patients. Check it out! Today, Kyle gave a brief history of vaping, which entered the scene around 2010, and described the experience as pleasurable and addictive. An estimated 3 million teens are addicted, and the flavored versions are quite tasty, but banned in California. He described his first exposure to smoking when he was 19, and living in Paris. It was “the” thing to do at that time, but he eventually gave it up, but later began to take a hit or two of vaping at a party, and then purchased his own vaping device in 2023. “Shamefully, he says, I tried to hide it from my partner and from other people, and I would vape in the bathroom.” He vaped for most of 2024, but explains that eventually, it got out of hand. At New Year’s 2025, he listed the advantages versus the disadvantages of vaping, and made the decision to give it up. This was difficult because of the withdrawal effects that lasted for several weeks, including intense cravings, fatigue, difficulty sleeping, irritability, anxiety, and the urge to overeat. The TEAM CBT technique that helped the most was HAL, the Habit and Addiction Log, and we demonstrated the Devil’s Advocate Technique. Rhonda and David played the role of the Tempting Thoughts and Kyle bravely battle back. Here’s the list of thoughts: 1. I’m driving, so I can just vape in the car. 2. Here’s a chance for a nice break. I can vape right now!\ 3. I can take another hit, no problem! I’ll just get a little feeling of pleasure. 4. I need It tastes sooo gooood! We translated the “I” statements into “you” statements to maximize the temptation, and were as seductive as possible. But no matter how hard we tried to tempt Kyle, he won “huge” and hit it out of the park. We discussed Relapse Prevention, and Kyle described being at a party on Friday where some people were vaping and sharing the vape. We also described and illustrated the powerful Triple Paradox, which works paradoxically. I have personally trained Kyle in TEAM CBT, along with many other fine TEAM teachers, and he was always brilliant, compassionate and extremely effective in his therapy work. He works with the full spectrum of mood and anxiety disorders, and has a bit of a specialty in the treatment of OCD. Thanks for listening today! /episode/index/show/feelinggood/id/35519995

Episode 438 Habits and Addictions: The TEAM Approach 03/03/2025

Episode 438 Habits and Addictions: The TEAM Approach Episode 438 The TEAM Approach to Habits and Addictions Powerful New, Radically Different Approaches that Can Help! Today, Dr. Jill Levitt joins David and Rhonda to discuss and illustrate the TEAM CBT approach to habits and addictions and give a little promo for their upcoming online workshop on Habits and Addictions on March 28, 2025. You can sign up for the workshop here: Although the workshop is for mental health professionals, participants will have the chance to work on their own habits and addictions during the workshop in order to gain a more in-depth understanding of the new treatment methods for: Overeating / binging / restricting Drugs Alcohol Procrastination Doomscrolling Excessive cell phone use Internet addiction Excessive use of social media Shop-a-Holic Biting fingernails Video games Gambling And more David emphasized that nearly all current treatment methods frequently fall short because they focus on control of symptoms using behavior modification rather than the cause. He describes a research study at the Stanford inpatient unit that indicated that 50 common DSM Diagnoses (such as mood disorders, anxiety disorders, personality disorders, and more) were not significantly correlated with any of the DSM addictive / misuse disorders including drugs, alcohol, eating disorders, and gambling, which was not really consistent with the beliefs of many that emotional factors play a central causal role in addictions. In fact, the only significant correlation he noted was between depression and overeating, but the correlation was in the negative direction—in other words, higher levels of depression were associated with weight loss, not weight gain. And, in addition, the magnitude of the correlation was extremely small, indicating that other factors play a far more important role. So, what is the explanation for this puzzling and anti-intuitive finding? David described a 5-item survey he developed which asks about temptations in use or give in to your habit / addiction in the past week. This tool, in contrast to all of the DSM diagnoses, was very strongly correlated with all the addictions. This suggests that we give in to our habits and addictions for one simple reason--they make us feel great! At least in the short term! 150 years ago, they didn’t have an epidemic of obesity in America. Why not? Life was likely just as stressful as it is now, maybe even more so! But what they didn’t have was all the fast food restaurants and all the gooey, tasty foods that are abundantly available today, and they didn’t have the resources to purchase them, either. This doesn’t mean that behavioral models or diets or other tools have no value. But the TEAM CBT model focuses first on assessing the patient’s motivation for and resistance to treatment using a variety of powerful and innovative new techniques, including: The Triple Paradox The Ten Positive Distortions The Habits and Addictions Log (HAL) The Devil’s Advocate Technique The Five-Minute Rule The “I Stubbornly Refused” Technique The Anti-Procrastination Sheet Relapse Prevention Techniques utilizing The Externalization of Voices The Acceptance Paradox Stimulus Control And more They emphasized that these are methods, but not in the ordinary sense, because they rely heavily on the use of paradox, which is unfamiliar to many therapists, and require a great deal of skill. Jill and David first discussed the nature of tempting thoughts and how positive distortions work. Then, they illustrated the Devil’s Advocate Technique with Rhonda who volunteered to work on her temptation to overeat chocolate, and especially chocolate chip cookies with peanut butter, and listed several of her tempting thoughts, including: 1. A little chocolate chip cookie can’t hurt. 2. I have to keep them in the house because my husband loves them. 3. Just one cookie. It will taste SOOOO Gooood! 4. I can always work out a little more. 5. That cookie smells Sooo Good! I just CAN’T resist. Jill and David played the tempting part of Rhonda’s brain, and she played the part that resisted the temptations. She started strong, but her conviction seemed to weaken on the third thought, and she didn’t win “huge.” Instead of doing a role reversal to “help” or “save” her, David said that perhaps that wasn’t really something she was willing to give up, and perhaps we could work on something else instead. She INSTANTLY did a complete turnaround and won “huge” when they gave her another chance to defeat the tempting voice. David and Jill emphasized that paradox nearly always wins, and “helping” nearly always fails. But this is why these methods are so challenging—because the therapist’s well-intentioned attempts to help nearly always backfire, and yet are extremely difficult to resist. Jill and David emphasize that prior to doing this type of role-playing method, it is crucial to find out if this is something the patient really wants help with, and Jill emphasized that we rarely or never impose an agenda on any patient. We do not have any belief that there is a “correct” way for people to be. Rhonda—or any patient--will first have to convince us that this is something she really wants help with. And that will be one of the many take home messages for the therapists who attend on March 28th. Thanks for listening today, and be sure to tune in again next week! Jill, Rhonda, and David /episode/index/show/feelinggood/id/35370875

437: Overcoming Your Porn Addiction 02/24/2025

437: Overcoming Your Porn Addiction Overcoming Your Porn Addiction Featuring the Awesome Thai-An Truong! 🎙️ Hosts: Dr. David Burns, Creator of TEAM-CBT and author of Feeling Good Rhonda Barovsky, Co-Host and Therapist at the Feeling Great Therapy Center 🎉 Special Guest: Thai-Ann Truong. Licensed Professional Counselor, Licensed Alcohol and Drug Counselor and a Superb TEAM-CBT Teacher, Trainer, and Super-Shrink who specializes in the treatment of Trauma, OCD, and marital / relationship dysfunction, including the impact of a porn addiction on couples In this jam-packed episode, of the Feeling Good podcast, David and Rhonda welcome Thai-An Troung, Level 5 TEAM therapist and trainer, licensed professional counselor, licensed alcohol and drug counselor and expert in addictions, to discuss the complex issue of pornography addiction. Thai-An shares her insights on the rising prevalence of porn use, its impact on relationships, and the psychological and physiological effects of addiction. The conversation delves into the symptoms of porn addiction, the importance of psychoeducation, and the application of TEAM therapy methods to help individuals and couples recover from the negative consequences of porn use. Thai-An emphasizes the need for awareness and understanding of how porn can affect brain chemistry and relationship dynamics, ultimately offering hope for recovery and healing. This conversation delves into the complexities of addiction, particularly focusing on porn addiction and its impact on pleasure and motivation. We discuss the importance of understanding the psychological aspects of addiction, including the loss of pleasure and the role of motivation in recovery. We explore various TEAM tools, such as the triple paradox, to address motivation and cravings, and emphasize the significance of social support in the recovery process. The discussion also touches on the nuances of sexual identity and the importance of abstinence when overcoming porn addiction. Finally, we highlight the need for specialized training for therapists working with couples facing these challenges. Key Topics Covered: * Porn addiction is a growing concern in modern society. * There is no moral judgment on porn use; it can be healthy for some. * Statistics show a significant rise in porn use among young people. * Abstinence from porn can improve relationship satisfaction. * Porn addiction can lead to sexual dysfunction and intimacy issues. * Sexual conditioning can alter attraction to real-life partners. * Psychoeducation is crucial for understanding porn addiction. * Brain chemistry is significantly affected by porn use. * Withdrawal symptoms from porn can include flatlining and social paralysis. * Porn addiction can lead to a depletion of pleasure and joy in life. * Understanding motivation is crucial for overcoming addiction. * The Triple Paradox can effectively address motivation in therapy. * Social support plays a vital role in recovery from addiction. * Abstinence is often necessary for healing from porn addiction. * Therapists should explore the benefits of addiction with clients. * Clients may find deeper connections through shared experiences in therapy. *Therapists need to be aware of the complexities of sexual identity. *Training and resources for therapists are essential for effective treatment. * Therapists can help clients find sustainable satisfaction beyond addiction. Listener Challenge 🌟 Try Out the Feeling Great app! Want to experience TEAM-CBT’s transformative power? Download the Feeling Great App or join an upcoming beta test to see the magic of its AI-driven mood and self-esteem coaching. You'll find it all at FeelingGreat.com! 💬 Feedback: We love hearing from you! Share your thoughts about today’s podcast. Send us your questions for an Ask David diopside 🛠️ Get Involved: Interested in joining a Feeling Great App beta? Reach out to Jason Meno at [email protected] 📚 Resources Mentioned: Feeling Good by Dr. David Burns Learn more about TEAM-CBT and the Feeling Great App TEAM-CBT at . ✨ Don’t forget to subscribe to the Feelinggood.com or Feelinggreat.com YouTube channels, and rate, and review! Thank you for listening! Thai-An, Rhonda and David /episode/index/show/feelinggood/id/34719730

436: What's Special About TEAM-CBT 02/17/2025

436: What's Special About TEAM-CBT Swimming in an Ocean of Gold-- The Unique Magic of TEAM-CBT! 🎙️ Hosts: Dr. David Burns, Creator of TEAM-CBT and author of Feeling Good Rhonda Barovsky, Co-Host and Therapist at the Feeling Great Therapy Center 🎉 Special Guests: Jeremy Karmel, CEO of the Feeling Great App Jason Meno, AI Content Lead and Developer of the Feeling Great App Episode Summary In this jam-packed episode, the Feeling Good team dives deep into the groundbreaking elements of TEAM-CBT. From rapid emotional transformations to the app’s jaw-dropping AI breakthroughs, this conversation will leave you inspired and ready to explore how TEAM-CBT can transform lives. Whether you’re a therapist, someone seeking self-help, or simply curious, this episode delivers gold at every turn. Key Topics Covered 🧪 T = Testing: Why measuring emotions and progress at every session is a game-changer. How testing reveals what therapists often miss and ensures rapid results. Hear Dr. Burns' incredible stories, including how testing saved a life. 💛 E = Empathy: Busting myths about cold, clinical therapy. How warmth and deep connections are at the heart of TEAM-CBT. Rhonda shares her powerful story about learning empathy and its transformational effects on her practice and personal life. 🧠 A = Assessment of Resistance: The revolutionary concept of honoring your “resistance to change.” Why it’s essential to embrace the positive aspects of negative feelings. Jason shares how paradoxical agenda setting melted years of stuckness in minutes. 🎭 M = Methods: The unparalleled arsenal of 140+ techniques to tackle every problem. Role-playing methods like Externalization of Voices and Feared Fantasy—how they create breakthroughs in minutes. Jeremy explains why therapists need to match the right tools to the right problems. Fun Highlights Money-Back Guarantee for the Podcast (It’s free!) Jeremy’s hilarious take on “jiggling your eyes into happiness.” The “critic from hell” gets crushed in real-time role-play. Why TEAM-CBT Stands Out Rapid, measurable results – No more endless talking without change. Powerful empathy – A therapy that connects deeply with your emotions. Resistance embraced – Discover the beauty in your struggles. Diverse methods – 140+ techniques tailored to every unique challenge. Listener Challenge 🌟 Try It Out! Want to experience TEAM-CBT’s transformative power? Download the Feeling Great App or join the upcoming beta test to see the magic of its AI-driven mood and self-esteem coaching. Next Week 🎙️ Tune in for Episode 437: Breaking Free from Your Porn Addiction, with Thai-An Truong from Oklahoma City 💬 Feedback: We love hearing from you! Share your thoughts about today’s podcast. 🛠️ Get Involved: Interested in joining the Feeling Great App beta? Reach out to Jason and the team! 📚 Resources Mentioned: Feeling Good by Dr. David Burns Learn more about TEAM-CBT at . 👉 Quote of the Week: "TEAM-CBT isn’t just therapy—it’s swimming in an ocean of gold." ✨ Don’t forget to subscribe to the Feelinggood.com or Feelinggreat.com YouTube channels, and rate, and review! /episode/index/show/feelinggood/id/34621900

Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy

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