Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy
This podcast features David D. Burns MD, author of "Feeling Good, The New Mood Therapy," describing powerful new techniques to overcome depression and anxiety and develop greater joy and self-esteem. For therapists and the general public alike!
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451: Teen Troubles? Don't Freak Out! Featuring Dr. Taylor Chesney
06/02/2025
451: Teen Troubles? Don't Freak Out! Featuring Dr. Taylor Chesney
Teen Troubles? Don’t Freak Out! Featuring Dr. Taylor Chesney Today, we are thrilled to welcome Dr. Taylor Chesney to our podcast on troubled teens—what actually works! Taylor has been on a number of previous podcasts, and has been a beloved member of the TEAM community for many years! We were lucky to have her here in person as a member of our weekly TEAM CBT training group for several years until she and her husband finally returned home to New York in 2014 where she established her booming clinical practice working with kids and teens. She and her husband, Gregg, have four children of their own, ranging from 11 to 2 ½, so she brings a great deal of practical experience to complement her brilliant technical skills. Taylor will teach us how parents can deal effectively with troubled and impulsive and often smelly and irritating teens. I think you will find her message highly practical and inspiring, and perhaps the opposite of the ways you may have reacted to frustrating teenagers in the past. She says her goal is to help parents feel more confident in dealing with their teens and to teach them how to develop greater teamwork, love and understanding by integrating the Five Secrets of Effective Communication into their daily parenting toolkit. She says that “teen brains are different. They act out impulsively when angry, and can be hard to tolerate at times, or even often.” The goal is to learn to see the world through their eyes, and to become comfortable with being uncomfortable with their behavior. Remember that teens are supposed to be irritable and angry as they grow more and more independent, which is healthy. Compared to an adult brain that is more developed, has better impulse control, and “should be” able to tolerate emotions better. She thinks that parents can often do a great deal more than a shrink, especially if the parents are willing to learn how to listen and connect more effectively with their children. She says, “teen brains are changing constantly. Teens are frustrating. They are angry, disorganized, and want more than anything to spend time with their friends. They often complain, and might say that a party they went to was “lame and it sucked because the parents were there, constantly hanging around. They don’t trust us!” Don’t argue or contradict them, or try to teach them “good lessons”. Instead use Thought Empathy, Feeling Empathy, and Disarming. Summarize their words and feelings, and find truth in what they are saying. For example, you might say, “That does sound disappointing, having the parents there supervising all the time. I wouldn’t be surprised if you feel frustrated and ticked off.” You want them to talk! And they WILL talk if you listen instead of trying to fix or control them. Suppose your teen says, “My teacher sucks. I turned my homework in late, so he deducted 5 points. But I was up late helping my friend on the phone, and I forgot.” You could say, “That sounds super frustrating. I know how much you care about your friends, and would do anything to help them out. It sounds super frustrating that you got marked down on your homework. I know that school is super important to you, too.” In other words, your goal is to provide support and warmth, rather than trying to discipline or scold them. They want to please you, but if you put them down when they are complaining, that will push them away and will cast a shadow on your relationships with them. You’ll get frustrated and the tension will escalate, and you may end up shouting at them in exasperation. Then you’ll get down on yourself as well, and you may feel like a bad mom or a bad dad. Taylor points out that if we can’t model calmness at those moments of tension, then our kids won’t learn how to be calm in the midst of conflict, either. They’ll just learn to shout and argue—the very behavior that you’re modeling. Suppose you ask them to do the dishes, but 30 minutes later they still haven’t started. They got distracted. The idea is to use “Gentle Parenting,” showing some patience, warmth and understanding instead of flying off the handle. This does NOT mean giving in, but rather showing kindness when you have to remind them to do their chores. You might say, “I know you’ve got so much going on, and it can be hard to keep up with everything.” Your kids will become more and more independent as they gradually evolve from grammar school, where they are highly dependent on you, to middle school and then to high school. During this process, you gradually evolve from being highly controlling and protective to being more of an influencer and creating a loving relationship, a friendship, with your child. At the same time that you attend to changes in your “outer dialogue” with your child, it’s important to notice your “inner dialogue.” This refers to the way you talk to yourself about our child, and these messages can sometimes be huge barriers to using the Five Secrets of Effective Communication. For example, if you tell yourself that your child is “bad,” this may trigger strong feelings of anger and resentment which will make it vastly more difficult, or almost impossible, to use the Five Secrets. Taylor reminds us that “if you can’t or won’t learn to see the world through your children’s eyes, you are essentially rejecting them and their world, and you will not be able to connect with them. But many parents resist or reject this strategy for a variety of reasons. For example, you may confuse empathy with being weak, or giving with giving in. You may be afraid that if you empathize, your children will walk all over you and run wild. But in point of fact, if you yell and lose your cool, you’ve lost the battle. You simply cannot force them to go to sleep, or to eat what you want them to eat, or to do what you want them to do. And if you fight your battle at the height of the conflict, when the negative feelings are their most intense, you lower the odds of success dramatically. Give them the message of love, even at the height of the battle. It’s not about control, but connection. We demonstrated these beautiful ideas during the podcast with some role-playing and role-reversals. Taylor, your message was crystal clear, simple, powerful, and inspiring. Rhonda and I and all of our fans are indebted to you for visiting today! A big hug and thanks! Taylor, Rhonda and David
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450: Resentment ever Rational? What causes Anger? How to Deal with Criticism
05/26/2025
450: Resentment ever Rational? What causes Anger? How to Deal with Criticism
450: ASK DAVID, Featuring Dr. Matthew May "All About Anger" Is resentment ever rational or logical? Are perceptions of injustice always present when people feel angry? What’s the best way to respond to an angry criticism? The following answers were written prior to the show. Tune in for the in-depth, live discussions of these cool questions. 1. Mark asks: Is RESENTMENT ever RATIONAL? Is there any rational, logical reason to hold a grudge? Hey David: I often have interesting thoughts at night – especially after consuming gummies or cannabis cookies before bed! Of course, it’s logical to learn from experiences and refuse to trust or give more money, time, labor, loan possessions, and so forth to someone that screwed us over. We don’t ever want to be deceived, ripped off, etc., multiple ties, but beyond self-protective behaviors and assertiveness, is there ANY logical, rational reason to hold a grudge or maintain resentment? David’s reply: Thanks Rationality is not one of the strong cards in dealing with any form of anger. Motivational interventions are usually more effective, at least initially. That’s because when we’re angry we usually WANT to feel angry and we won’t take kindly to anyone telling us that our thoughts are WRONG! David 2. Mark asks: Are perceptions of injustice always present when people feel ANGRY? It seems to me that there is almost always some self-talk related to feeling unjustly treated – whether road rage, marital/couple conflicts, etc. I am eager to hear your thoughts/feel free to use any of this in your writings, podcast, blogs, etc. David’s reply: Yes, most if not all, feelings of anger are associated with thoughts of injustice, unfair behavior and similar kinds of thoughts. 3. Rhonda’s 5-Secrets question. In the course of a conversation that I was having with a colleague of mine (not a TEAM therapist), she told me that she felt I was criticizing her. I immediately went into a 5-Secrets frame of mind and tried to disarm her…saying, “Well you are right, I am feeling critical.” I also used the other 5 steps except I did not offer any stroking because I was not feeling very positive toward her. She said, “Then if you are being critical of me now, you must be critical of me ALL the time.” How would you respond to that? Thank you! Rhonda David’s response We role-played this in real time, and discussed the power and challenge of genuine disarming, and illustrated it. Matt, Rhonda, and David thank you for joining us today, and hope you enjoyed the dialogue!
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449: Stories from My Hippy Days, Part 2
05/19/2025
449: Stories from My Hippy Days, Part 2
Stories from My Hippy Days, Part 2 Featuring David and Rhonda A year or more ago we did a Part 1 podcast on stories from my days as a Stanford Medical student in the late 1960s. This was the Hippy Era and the famous “Summer of Love.” A young man, Clyde, recently asked if we’d do Part 2, since we didn’t get to all the stories the first time around. As an aside, there are more stories, so if you like them, we’d be happy to do a Part 3 as well. 1. Husain Chung and the crazy teen from LA: When a stallion wants to run, you run with the stallion!” 2. A frightening encounter with Vic Lovell: And a mentor’s advice on how to handle it. 3. Bar next to the Free University Coffee House: Outrageous works, even with the Hell’s Angels. 4. The bearded man on the quad near the Stanford Student Union—Telling me to “sit with open hands” 5. Ken Kesey and his merry pranksters walked into the Stanford Student Union—they were dressed in pajamas or clown outfits and Neil Cassady was juggling hammers. 6. The tape recorder experiment: Bizarre week, unexpected conclusion. 7. Encounter at the Medical School: “Psychiatry and Psychotherapy—Are they Relevant or Obsolete?” Featuring Hussain Chung 8. Missing the medical school graduation ceremony: Didn’t pick up my diploma until years later. 9. Homeless in Carmel Valley: Saved by Ramadan, Subud and Bapak. Thanks for tuning in today! And keep your requests, questions, and feedback coming. Your satisfaction and happiness are our top goals! Rhonda and David
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448: Ask David, featuring Adam Holman
05/12/2025
448: Ask David, featuring Adam Holman
448: Ask David, featuring Adam Hollman Relationship woes--what should I do? How can animals have feelings if they can't think? How often should I fill out the Daily Mood Log? Why can't husbands express their feelings? Today we are joined by Adam Holman, LCSW. Adam has recently left his full time clinical practice in Arizona to join our Feeling Great app team here in San Francisco. I think you’ll be delighted by his warmth and wisdom. Although he works with us full-time, he still practices one day per week and specializes in X depression, anxiety, and screen addiction(e.g. video game addiction and more.) He has appeared on two previous Feeling Good Podcasts, # X and # Y. We are delighted to have Adam as the honored guest on today’s Ask David podcast! Here are the questions for today’s Ask David. They were all written before the podcast. If you listen to the podcast, you will get much more information and perspective. The Questions Hello Dr Burns. I hope you are doing well. I participated in the webinar held on 18th of April. It was a good experience for me and I would like to thank you and your team in arranging for that. Far asks: if You have a relationship problem, but also feel inadequate. Should you use the Daily Mood Log for the internal problem of inadequacy and the Relationship Journal for the actual dialogue? Moritz points out that animals, who don’t think in words, still have intense emotional reactions, including fear and anger. For example, when a deer spots a predator, like a cayote, it feels terror and instantly runs to get away. Doesn’t this prove that terrifying events can cause feelings directly? In other words, that makes it seem like thoughts or cognitions are NOT necessary to feel emotions. What do you think? Rob asks: How often do you fill out your own daily mood journals? Do you do one every day? Would you be willing to share recent examples of your own journals with podcast listeners? Brittany asks: Why won’t my husband share his feelings? (Or, we could ask, why can’t men express their feelings?) The Answers 1. Far asks: If you have a relationship problem, but also feel inadequate. Should you use the Daily Mood Log for the internal problem of inadequacy and the Relationship Journal for the actual dialogue? Hello Dr Burns. I hope you are doing well. I participated in the webinar held on 18th of April. It was a good experience for me, and I would like to thank you and your team for arranging it. May I ask a question? When there is a relationship problem it should be addressed by the relationship journal and interpersonal downward arrow and not by the cognitive method as far as I know. What about when there is a relationship problem together with strong feelings of depression and frustration as a result of an internal dialogue of being inadequate and defective. Should this component be addressed by the cognitive method and straightforward technique? Thanks a lot. Far Kom David’s Reply This one just came in, so we’ll answer it live. 2. Moritz: Are thoughts REALLY necessary to have emotional reactions to events? Hi David, first of all, thank you for the podcast, and in particular for answering my question about how you help people with schizophrenia or bipolar disorder, which came out a few weeks or months ago. I just finished listening to episode 430, where you stated that that negative thoughts can cause negative emotions (this part I'm totally on board with), but also hypothesized that probably only negative thoughts cause negative emotions. Did I understand that correctly? (If not, please ignore the rest of this email, it won't make any sense). I'm kinda confused about this claim. This is totally not my area of expertise, but I'm under the impression that fear is much older and more "primitive" than (at least conscious) thought, from an evolutionary point of view. It would seem unlikely that an old evolutionary feature in the brain would only be triggered from a newer feature. My other source of confusion comes from my own comparison with animals. It is my impression that basically all mammals show some kind of fear response, but we don't attribute thoughts to all of them, never mind full-blown self-reflective, conscious thoughts. So at least in the mammals with simpler brains, it seems likely that fear (and other negative emotions) could be triggered pretty directly without going through negative thoughts first, and it would also be quite surprising if we didn't all contain the same mechanisms, since we share most of our neural architecture with all mammals. Do you think these considerations are valid, and if yes, are they compatible with your approach? After listening to your podcast, my own mental model of negative emotions is something like this: stimuli can cause negative emotions directly; this happens in all mammals when the stimulus goes away, negative emotions also ebb and go away after a certain time, unless something keeps them alive in humans (and likely in at least some mammals), thoughts also can trigger emotions, and so they can disable the natural dampening of negative emotions. This mental model might explain satisfy both the evolutionary considerations, and explain the data you've gathered from the Feeling Great app. I admit I feel a bit silly writing you this, because you spend so much more mental energy on these topics, so it seems unlikely I have anything to contribute that you and your team didn't think of. So, sorry for the long rambling, and I hope you still find something interesting in it, or maybe you can clear up some of my confusion about your model. Best regards, Moritz David’s reply Thank you for your thoughtful comments. I think they are awesome, and definitely not “silly.” Here’s my take on it, for what it’s worth, and I just speculate, too. All animals, including human animals, have perceptions. When a dear spots a cayote, the "stimulus" is a perception of a dangerous predator. This "cognition" triggers the emotion. People think cognition means sentences involving words, but my understanding is quite different. The idea is that any kind of conscious perception can trigger emotions, including sudden fear or anxiety. The perception might simply be an image, which is also a type of cognition or perception, that can suddenly trigger great fear. When I see a rock climber on TV, this "picture" or “perception” stimulates a powerful physiological fear reaction. That's because I "see" the picture as being incredibly dangerous and imagine falling. Thanks, david Might use as an ask David follow up, if that's okay! Moritz replies Ok, "simple" cognition without explicit thought can be enough to trigger emotion, got it. Feel free to use that as an Ask David if you want. Regards, Moritz David’s final reply Thanks, yes, it is the perception of danger that triggers the fear. Terrific! As another example, you could argue that when the airplanes flex into the World Trade Center in New York on 9/11, everyone felt terrified, horrified, and devastated, and it was the event that caused these feelings. Doesn’t this prove that thoughts, or cognitions, are not required to have powerful feelings? It would seem like you didn’t have to put a thought in your mind to feel fearful when watching the horrifying images on TV. What do you think, Moritz? Well, here’s my answer. It is not true that everyone had the same feelings watching that horrifying scene. We all had our own unique reactions, depending on how we were thinking about it. And of course, some people felt joy, glee, and more, and did NOT have negative feelings. That’s because they thought about the event quite differently. For example, Osama Bin Lauden and his followers when watching were delighted, and like thinking, “Those Americans finally got what they deserved!” Same event—radically different emotional reactions. All of your emotions result from your thoughts. The positive and negative events of our lives do not, and cannot, affect us directly. We have to interpret the event first and give it meaning. Thanks! David 3. Rob asks: How often should you do Daily Mood Logs? Do YOU fill out your own Daily Mood Logs? Hello Rhonda and David: I hope you're both doing well. I'm a long-time listener to your podcast, and I shared an endorsement that you included in podcast episode 333 about two years ago. While listening to an episode recently, some questions occurred to me that I wanted to share with you. How often do you fill out your own daily mood journals? Do you do one every day? Would you be willing to share recent examples of your own journals with podcast listeners? I can understand how you might not want to do this and certainly respect your right to privacy, but I thought also it might be interesting for listeners to hear. I would be honored if you would share your thoughts with me when you have a moment. Rob Robinson All the replies to this excellent question will be spontaneous and live on the podcast. 4. Brittany asks: Why can’t my husband express his feelings? Hi Dr. Burns, I have a question. This is something that frequently comes up in arguments with my husband. Here is an example from yesterday: Me after finding out he was upset the night before I said: “Why did you tell me everything was fine and it’s all in my head if you were upset?” Husband: I shouldn’t have to tell you. You should be better at reading me. I feel annoyed because when I did ask him if he was upset the night before, he denied it then put the blame on me the next day that I should be able to read his mind. That doesn’t seem fair. I don’t suppose I could put that in my five secrets response though as it wouldn’t make the problem better. What do you think? I guess I should probably do the relationship journal. -Brittany David’s reply Hi Brittany, Here’s my quick assessment. Your first statement to him when he said he’d been upset sounded a bit blaming. In other words, he was trying to express his feelings openly and told you he’d actually been feeling upset. And you immediately punished him. Can you see that? In other words, you said: “Why did you tell me everything was fine and it’s all in my head if you were upset?” Can you see that when he confided that he had been feeling upset, you blamed him for not telling you the night before. He might have felt scolded, put down. What do you think about that? And could that be why he has trouble expressing his feelings? Can I use this on an Ask David, with your first name or with a fake name? And yes, you can use the Relationship Journal on situations like this! For sure! Go for it! Sorry if this sounds harsh or direct. You know, I hope, that I have tremendous regard for you! David Other ideas include: When we blame others, we are nearly always CAUSING the very problem we are complaining about. Our anger and frustration nearly always results from “Should Statements.” In other words, he “should” have expressed his feelings sooner, and better, etc. This sounds like you expect him to be some ideal husband, rather than a real husband. I sometimes also have trouble expressing my feelings, or even knowing clearly what or who I’m upset with, or why. And I always appreciate a little bit of help at figuring that out!
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447: Perfectionism Update, Featuring Adam Holman
05/05/2025
447: Perfectionism Update, Featuring Adam Holman
Perfectionism Update Featuring Adam Holman Today we are joined by Adam Holman, LCSW. Adam has recently left his full time clinical practice in Arizona to join our Feeling Great app team here in San Francisco. I think you’ll be delighted by his warmth and wisdom. Although he works with us full-time, he still practices one day per week and specializes in X depression, anxiety, and screen addiction(e.g. video game addiction and more.) He has appeared on two previous Feeling Good Podcasts, # X and # Y. We are delighted to have Adam as the honored guest on today’s Ask David podcast! Today’s questions come all the way from North Macedonia! Dear Dr. Burns, Thank you so much for your kind response. I’d be truly honored if my questions could be considered for a future episode of your Ask David podcast. Your work has been a key influence in my research on perfectionism and its cognitive-behavioral aspects. Here are a few brief questions I’m currently exploring: How has your view of perfectionism evolved since Feeling Good? What strategies have you found most effective for challenging perfectionistic thinking in therapy? Is perfectionism often rooted in a fear of not being “good enough”? How does it typically manifest in academic or professional environments? If you happen to include any of these in a future episode, I’d be grateful if you could let me know so I can tune in. Thank you again for your time and for the lasting impact of your work. Warm regards, Mitko Toshev Doctoral Student Faculty of Pedagogy University “St. Kliment Ohridski” – Bitola North Macedonia David’s Reply Yes, this will make for an excellent podcast with a refresher on perfectionism, featuring questions from Mitko and a spirited discussion with Adam, Rhonda and yours truly! We had an in depth discussion of all the latest bells and whistles in the treatment of perfectionism with TEAM CBT. This included the two very different but complementary approaches to treating depression or any of the 23 common Self-Defeating Beliefs. So, if you’ve ever struggle with the thought that you’re not good enough, or that you SHOULDN’T have made this or that mistake, this podcast will be right up your alley! Thanks, Mitko! david
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446 Gender-Affirming, Life-Saving Medical Care, featuring Stanford's Dr. Rachel Sewell
04/28/2025
446 Gender-Affirming, Life-Saving Medical Care, featuring Stanford's Dr. Rachel Sewell
446 Who am I? Medical Help that Saves Children’s Lives Featuring Dr. Rachel Sewall: “I want to shout from the mountain tops!” Today we hear from Rachel Sewell, M.D., a Stanford pediatric endocrinologist who provides medically necessary care for transgender and gender diverse young people. She shares how in a time when there is a lot of inaccurate information being spread about this vulnerable population she will continue to advocate for them by providing education and accurate information, including by being a guest on this podcast. She says: When I was a medical student, I wasn’t initially sure what type of medical practice I would pursue. However, I always knew I’d be an advocate for LGBTQ+ patients . As a first-year medical student, I trained and worked in the emergency room. I quickly realized, as did my mentors, that I enjoyed and was excellent at working with children, so I focused on pediatrics. That summer I had the chance to do research in endocrinology which is the study of all hormones. Think of hormones as messages that travel throughout our bodies delivering important information. Hormones are responsible for so many important functions including keeping our bones healthy, helping us grow, using the energy from our food, and causing kid bodies to change into adult bodies. My work with transgender and gender diverse children and teens involves providing evidence-based holistic care with a skilled team of clinicians. More than anything, my patients want to be respected, heard, and allowed to thrive. . In providing them care,I bear witness to intense conversations, emotional highs and lows, as well as the purest examples of joy. Throughout it all, it is my privilege and pleasure to provide them gender affirming care. During this episode we reviewed definitions of gender identity vs the sex assigned to someone at birth. We review the common times when young folks share their gender identity with the people in their lives as well as what it means to be cisgender vs transgender. We discuss sexual orientation and gender identity and how these are complicated and independent aspects of everyone’s sense of self. Rachel continued, Medically necessary care for transgender and gender diverse patients is life-saving. Imagine, you know you are male but your body has a period every month. This can be profoundly distressing and results in gender dysphoria. Gender dysphoria is the intense discomfort that results from your identity not aligning with your body and negatively impacts people’s everyday lives. Now imagine being told that there are safe and effective ways to avoid experiencing that distress. I have had numerous patients say that the care they receive has saved their life. When people hear gender affirming care it often leads them to think of care provided to transgender and gender diverse people but everyone deserves access to gender affirming care. Because it is simply a model of care that recognizes the importance of and validates people’s identities and experiences. Other examples of gender affirming care include being able to take a medicine to help prevent hair loss on your head or undergoing a breast reconstruction surgery after having breast tissue removed in the fight against cancer. When discussing possible ways to support a patient’s identity I tell families that there is no one size fits all. Everyone’s journey is completely unique. For some patients, having their legal documents align with their chosen name is the most important thing. For others, they alter their gender expression, aka the way they present themselves to and interact with the world around them with things like hair changes, makeup, clothes etc. to align with their identity. For some folks it is important to pursue hormone therapy. And for some they will end up pursuing surgical interventions when they are adults. I also discuss that the timing of sharing your gender identity if it does not align with your sex assigned at birth varies tremendously. But regardless of age, gender-affirming medical care always makes a tremendous difference in peoples’ lives! Rhonda and I are deeply grateful to Rachel for giving us this wonderfully patient and clear education in a field that was not even covered, to the best of my knowledge, when I was a medical student at Stanford. We hope your voice today, Rachel, will be heard by many, and will hep to bring greater peace, acceptance, love and understanding to our many podcast fans. Thanks! Rachel, Rhonda, and David
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#445 Awesome Interviewing Secrets featuring Dr. Kyle Jones
04/21/2025
#445 Awesome Interviewing Secrets featuring Dr. Kyle Jones
Secrets of Superb Interviewing-- How to Be Everyone's Number 1 Choice! Today we feature our beloved Kyle Jones, Ph.D, a clinical psychologist who suggested we might do a really cool podcast on the interviewing skills featured in Chapter 16 of my Feeling Good Handbook. Rhonda and I are absolutely delighted to welcome Kyle for his third appearance on to the Feeling Good Podcast. (Rhonda had to excuse herself after introducing this episode because she was not feeling well) In that chapter on interviewing skills, I listed the five basic principles of successfully interviewing for a job, for admissions to a school, or really almost any type of interview at all. I have to warn you that these ideas may be unfamiliar, and will definitely be quite different from what you've been taught about winning interviews. #1: Be personable and friendly. Don't try to impress the person who's interviewing you! #2 Make them sell themselves to you. #3 Be honest, but present yourself in a positive light. #4 Don't get defensive. #5 Punt when you don't know the answer to the question. To illustrate the first idea, I told a story from Dale Carnegie's book on How to Win Friends and Influence People, in which he describes his interview with a wealth and powerful man in the hopes of soliciting a donation for the Boy Scouts of America. This was back in the era many years ago when the Scouts were still very popular. The receptionist who made the appointment warned Dale Carnegie that he would have only 15 minutes, and emphasized that her boss was 100% meticulous about time. He started exactly on time, and ended exactly on time, whether or not you were done, so he better talk fast once the interview started. When the time came, and Dale Carnegie entered the office, the receptionist again reminded him that he'd be kicked out after 15 minutes no matter what! As he walked in, Dale Carnegie spotted a trophy fish proudly displayed on the wall above the rich man's desk, and asked, if the wealthy man he'd caught it. himself, The rich man said he had caught it in lake so and so. Dale Carnegie got excited and said, "I fish there too. Where, exactly, were you fishing on the lake when you caught this fish?" The man told him where his favorite fishing hole was, and they become engrossed in a vibrant conversation about the joys of fishing. Suddenly, the office door opened, and the receptionist appeared and said the time was up. On the way out, the wealthy man said, "Oh, I forgot to ask you what the purpose of the interview was." Dale Carnegie said, "Oh, I'm sorry, I forgot to mention that I am trying to raise money to support the Boy Scouts of America." The man replied, "You'll receive a check in the mail tomorrow for a million dollars." And those were the days when that was an enormous amount of money. What's the moral of the story? Relate to the person who's interviewing you as a person, and show an interest in them, instead of pitching your talking points and trying to impress them. People usually make decisions influenced greatly by how much they like the person they are talking to. Don't try to be impressive. Aim for friendly, real and human. How do you do this? Well, let's say that you have an interview with a law firm, hoping to get hired, and you're just out of law school. I used to be the shrink for the University of Pennsylvania Law School, and at the time there were too many law school graduates looking for too few job openings, and almost no one was hiring. They referred despondent and panicky students to me who'd had a string of rejections. At the time, the top firms had at least 50 to 100 top notch candidates for every position. Was there any hope of starting their careers? I told them to do some research on the person who was going to interview them, or on their firm. Find something interesting about them. Then, at the start of the interview you can say something like this: "I'm so excited to meet you because I've been following your work for some time. I was amazed and blown away by your strategy in the X, Y, and Z case, and I was wondering if you're still using that approach in litigation and how it's been working out? I'd love to hear more about your work, and how you came up with the approach you're using, and what you like the best about this firm." This will get them to talking about themselves. DON'T try to impress them with how great you are . That will just bore them, or turn them off, and it will certainly put you under pressure to perform. This pressure will probably make you anxious, and your anxiety and insecurity will show. Instead, impress them with how great THEY are. They'll love you! I trained the students in this doing role-playing of imaginary job interviews. Every student I trained in this approach became the #1 choice at every firm they interviewed at! This approach is not just for law students, it's for every type of job, as well as interviews for college, graduate school, and more. Here's the underlying idea. People don't really care much about you. They care about themselves. This is true of all of us. So, use this to your advantage, and you'll suddenly be super happy and glad you were OTHER centered and not SELF centered! Does this mean you should hide your own skills and accomplishments? Of course now. You can answer questions about what you offer with humility and integrity. But that alone will rarely be enough. #2 Make them sell themselves to you. Let's say you're applying for graduate school, and it's very competitive. Again, they have 100 brilliant candidates for every position. Suppose the interview says something challenging, like "As you know, all the top candidates in the Unites States apply to us here at Harvard. Most of them were #1 in the their college classes and several have already been nominated for Nobel Prizes. Why should we be interested in you?" This, of course, is absurd, but I'm taking the worst imaginable question in an interview. Yikes! This sounds impossible, right? How in the world could you respond? Actually, it's easy. You can just say, "Gosh, I don't know if I'd be a good fit here. That's what I'm hoping to learn today. Maybe you can tell me what you're looking for in a top notch candidate. What kinds of candidates have gone on to be stars, and what types have been disappointments? Then I can give you a better answer on whether or not I might be a good fit. Although I love your company, and I'm so impressed with your own career, I wouldn't want to accept a job unless I was convinced I could really contribute to your firm." Is this realistic, or just some David fantasy? During my senior year in college, I was planning to go to graduate school in clinical psychology, since I'd majored in philosophy and psychology seemed like a way more practical career. However, my college adviser said that medical school would be a far better choice because medications were becoming more and more important in treating mental illnesses, and only psychiatrists could prescribe drugs. I told him that I'd never had any interest in being a medical doctor, and wasn't even a premed student, so there was no way I could get into medical school. I hadn't even had a single biology class in college. He said "That won't be a problem I don't think. You've got the gift of gab, and they probably won't even notice." So, I applied to a number of medical schools and landed an interview at Stanford, and several others. My interview was with someone in the Anatomy Department which was located in the basement of the museum on campus. I went down the stairs and into a room where I met the man who was interviewing me. I said, "It's a bit dark down here. Is this where the medical students dissect their cadavers?" He said, "Absolutely. But it's actually pretty awesome down here. In fact, my laboratory his just down the hall. I said, "Oh, could I see your laboratory? I'd love to take a look and find out what kind of research you do." He seemed excited and as we walked into his lab I noticed all kinds of fancy equipment and read the name on one of them, so kind of photometer or something. I had no idea what it was, but said, "Oh, I see you have an X, Y Z photometer. (or whatever it was). Do you use this in your research?" He said, "Oh, absolutely, it's extremely important in my research." I asked him about the research he did. He excitedly started explaining it, and for the most part I had no idea what he was talking about, but kept expressing interest and asking him for more and more information. I was terrified that he'd ask me questions about my undergraduate work and my research, which of course did not exist. I'd never done any research! Just philosophy classes and such. Well, we had quite the conversation, but after a while he suddenly looked at his watch and said, "Oh, my goodness. We were only supposed to talk for 15 minutes, and we've been talking for nearly two hours. I have to rush over to the medical school quad for an important meeting I'm almost late for. Why don't we walk over in that direction together?" As we were walking out of the basement, he said, "Oh, my goodness, I forgot to ask you who you are and where you're from." I said, "Oh, I'm David Burns from Amherst College." He said, "Well, David Burns, I want you to know that you're the kind of young man we need at the Stanford Medical School.!" I said, "It's really kind of you to say that, but I'm afraid I won't be able to come to the Stanford for medical school." He said, "That's nonsense? Of course you can come! Do you think Harvard is going to make you a better offer? We'll top anything they offer." I said, "Oh no, sir, that's not it. You see, my father is a minister, and we don't have much money, and I've heard that attending medical school would cost more than one hundred thousand dollars. And he believes that borrowing money is a sin." He said, "David Burns, I'm the head of the admissions committee, and that's where I'm headed right now. And I'm going to tell them that you're the #1 choice for admission this year. And you won't have to pay a thing. We'll pay for tuition, room, board, books, expenses, everything. It won't cost you one cent to go to Sanford medical school." I said, "Oh, thank you so much! That's an offer I can't refuse!" I got my acceptance letter two days later and the rest, as they say, is history. But to spell it out. Why was I accepted to a top-flight, highly competitive program when I had absolutely NO credentials? Because I expressed an interest in him, and I was friendly, and I believe that meant a great deal to him. And I'll always be grateful for his help. My wife and I returned to Stanford almost 30 years ago, where I've served on the voluntary (unpaid) faculty at the medical school, teaching and doing research and continuing to develop TEAM CBT. I turned out to be a terrible medical student, and dropped out for a full year on two different times because I just wasn't the "medical" type. I had very little aptitude or interest in medicine. But I did end up as a psychiatrist, and came to love medicine and healing people who were suffering, and doing research. And my voluntary work is my way of trying to repay my tremendous debt to Stanford! And I'll never forget the kind gentleman who interviewed me. Kyle and I jammed on all five examples, including many additional stories to bring these ideas to life. Kyle used this strategy when interview for his internship in psychology, and it worked like a charm. I would say that I've taught many people how to use these ideas, including family members, students, and colleagues. The impact has been nothing short of incredible. That probably sounds over the top, and I "get it." But the stories are true, and the ideas can change your life. Remember what the Buddha said, 2500 years ago: "Selling yourself sucks! So, Stop it, and do what works!" Warmly, Rhonda, Kyle, and David Contact information Kyle is a superb TEAM CBT therapist who practices virtually throughout California. Here's his contact information:
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444: I'm angry! Live Work with Sunny, Part 2
04/14/2025
444: I'm angry! Live Work with Sunny, Part 2
I’m angry! A Once-UndocumentedImmigrant Speaks from the Heart-- Live Work with Sunny, Part 2 Last week you heard Part 1 of the Live work with Sunny, who’s struggling with radically conflicting emotions. On the one hand, he has finally achieved his dream of an incredibly happy and fulfilling life, but he is frequently plunged into profound despair, fear, and anger because of the increasingly adverse political climate for people who are “different”—in gender identity, sexual orientation, nationality, political beliefs, skin color, and more. And he is shocked, fearful, and angered by the mean-spirited treatment so many are receiving—and which Sunny has endured throughout much of his life as well. Today, you will hear about how we set the A = agenda for our session with Sunny, along with the M = Methods we used. You can find Sunny’s goals for each negative feeling at the end of the Positive Reframing, and at the end of M = Methods, if you His scores on the Empathy and Helpfulness Scales in the Evaluation of Therapy Session were perfect. Here are some of the take-home lessons from this session with Sunny. 1. Unhealthy negative feelings result from distorted negative thoughts, like “I’ll be miserable forever.” Healthy negative feelings, in contrast, result from thoughts that are realistic and, for the most part, undistorted. Healthy negative feelings do not usually require any kind of “treatment,” but skillful empathic listening and support will nearly always be appreciated. 2. Empathy can be very powerful, and it is absolutely necessary for a meaningful therapeutic relationship, but empathy alone is not enough to change the way someone feels. 3. Finding compassion for someone who has harmed you, while extremely challenging, can also bring you peace. 4. Emotions such as anger, sadness, and anxiety are important protective instincts. And one can feel these emotions and be compassionate and loving at the same time. 5. As a therapist it can be tempting to either assume that you can’t help a patient because their feelings are “normal,” or to try to cheerlead or problem-solve for a patient to cheer them up, but the TEAM-CBT model allows us to collaborate with the patient, understand when and how they want to change, honor their resistance to change, and offer them the tools they need to change in a way that honors their values. Thank you so much for listening and joining us. Rhonda, Jill and I are deeply indebted to you, Sunny, for your courage and vulnerability last week and today, letting us into your world on such a personal level. We love you and will always be grateful to have you in our lives, both professionally and personally! Sunny, Rhonda, Jill, and David
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443: I'm angry! Live Work with Sunny, Part 1
04/07/2025
443: I'm angry! Live Work with Sunny, Part 1
I’m angry! A Once-UndocumentedImmigrant Speaks from the Heart-- Live Work with Sunny, Part 1 Sunny Choi is a beloved member of the TEAM community. He grew up in Hong Kong before emigrating with his family to the United States when he was 11 years old. He graduated from UCLA with a major in engineering, completed a master’s degree in Engineering Management at Stanford, and developed a successful career in high tech Silicon Valley companies. However, he left his work to pursue additional graduate training in clinical social work because he discovered that his strongest call was to help individuals who were being marginalized by American culture and suffering. He then obtained an MSW degree with a specialty in Community Mental Health from California State University. We were fortunate when Sunny discovered and joined our free Stanford TEAM CBT training group, and blossomed into an expert TEAM therapist and beloved colleague and friend. Today, Dr. Jill Levitt and I worked with Sunny because he requested a session to work on his own troubled feelings concerning the recent political developments. He emphasized that he wanted to do personal work, rather than focusing too heavily on the current political controversies and battles. You can find the Daily Mood Log (DML) that Sunny prepared just prior to his session if you As you can see, at the top of his DML, he described the upsetting event as tearing up when he was teaching a class and discussing a case of a transgender Mexican American man, and he began reflecting on his own memories of growing up as a gay male and undocumented immigrant. Sadness and anger were the two strongest negative feelings (rated 70 and 80, respectively on a scale from 0 to 100), although he was also moderately anxious, guilty, rejected, hopeless, and frustrated. You can also see the ten negative thoughts he recorded on his DML, and how strongly he believed each one, on a scale from 0 (not at all) to 1000 (completely.). During the session he added three more thoughts: 11. I (shouldn’t be) living such a happy and pleasurable life when others are suffering. 70% 12. I should be helping others more. 80% 13. I have to figure out the correct way to be thinking and feeling. 50% At the start of the session, he said that he felt vulnerable and nervous discussing such personal feelings, memories, and thoughts. He also said that after doing much personal and professional work, he was generally happy and loving, but felt profoundly disturbed when he thought about so many people who are suffering. He said, “Many of my clients are being deported. And those who are gay are worried that they’ll lose access to their medications.” These were the kinds of thoughts that triggered his feelings of guilt. During the empathy phase, Jill mentioned that she felt honored to be talking to Sunny today and proud to be a member of a community where you can reach out when you’re suffering. She added that she felt torn, as I did, because it seemed to us that many of his negative thoughts were realistic, and not distorted, and that it makes sense to feel sad, anxious, worried, and angry. For example, his first negative thought on his DML was, “The world is much more unstable and dangerous now.” Sunny emphasized that most of the time he does feel happy, especially when involved with friends and family, and doing the things he loves. But then he gets confused and guilty, wondering if it is right to feel happy when things are looking so dark for so many people. It certainly makes sense to feel unhappy when, as Sunny said, some of his clients and friends have lost their jobs and people in the LGBTQ+ community are afraid they’ll get deported. And we’re all afraid to speak up and talk about diversity, which has become a dirty word that can get you into trouble. And when Sunny thinks about this, he feels profound sadness and compassion. But as previously noted, this has caused confusion for Sunny, and he struggles with feelings of guilt about the fact that he is truly happy so much of the time. He’s happy about his beautiful life, his marriage, and more—this, in fact, is his happiest he’s ever been. Here’s how he puts it: “I used to be undocumented. The experience and the hostility and bias I confronted traumatized me. And when I heard Trump talk about all the ‘murders and rapists’ invading our country from Mexico, I became tearful. I feel angry—they don’t think we’re human. “I want people to be more compassionate. . . . To say we’re rapists and criminals, it’s not okay. . . it’s mean, and it’s very harmful to mental health. . . . It’s like repeatedly poking at someone who is recovering from a terrible wound, and it hurts.” Jill was touched, and found Sunny’s vulnerability heart-warming, beautiful, and refreshing. Rhonda reminded us that unless we are Indigenous Native Americans, all Americans are descended from immigrants. In my own case, all my ancestors came from Sweden in the late 1800s during the potato famine. Sunny pointed out the European immigrants have not been discriminated against in the same way as the Africans, Asians, Latinos, Islamic, and dark-skinned individuals: “Let’s be open. It’s racism. I felt it right from the start.” Sunny gave us an A+ on empathy, and then we worked to set the agenda for the session. What did Sunny hope to get from the session? What did he want help with? What changes was he hoping for? He said: “Maybe my feelings are appropriate, but some may be too intense. My goal is to find peace; to have hope, and to try to do something to help. . . I want to feel proud of who I am and what I stand for. I want to try to be loving and compassionate, even to people who don’t have the same beliefs and values. . . . Although that can be incredibly challenging!” When you listen to today’s podcast, you will hear the T = Testing and E = Empathy portions of the session. Next week, you will hear the A = Paradoxical Agenda Setting and M = Methods portions along with the conclusion, including the final T = Testing to evaluate his end of session scores on the Brief Mood Survey and Evaluation of Therapy Session. Thank you for joining us. Rhonda, Jill, Sunny, and I appreciate all of you!
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442: Eliminate Anxiety Fast: The Awesome Hidden Emotion Technique
03/31/2025
442: Eliminate Anxiety Fast: The Awesome Hidden Emotion Technique
Ask David: The Awesome Hidden Emotion Technique Featuring Matthew May, MD with Rhonda and David The following answers to Ask David questions were written prior to the live podcast where Matt, David, Rhonda, and others discuss the questions in real time. Their answers may differ from Dr. Burns responses listed below. 1. Michael asks: How did you invent the Hidden Emotion Technique? It’s been incredibly helpful to me! Hello, Dr. Burns, Your lifelong work continues to be invaluable to me and so many others, and I apologize if this question was answered on a previous podcast. To my knowledge, it hasn't been. I was wondering how you discovered or created the hidden emotion model? I recently struggled with inexplicable death anxiety that came on every night since college started back up, and I was at a loss, until I remembered the hidden emotion model and wondered if there was something I wasn't acknowledging? Sure enough, I discovered I was actually quite resentful of my new schedule not allowing me to easily fit the gym into my schedule unless I wanted to forgo valuable sleep. Once I had addressed this resentment, the death anxiety vanished. I would love to know how this wonderful technique became part of your phenomenal practice! -Sincerely, Michael Polus. David’s reply You can read all about it in When Panic Attacks, when I learned about it accidentally based on an interaction with a patient who was stuck. Perhaps we can answer it on a podcast. Thanks! david 2. Janie asks: How can I help a patient who ruminates? My client ruminates, that is she experiences repetitive thoughts about conversations and gets stuck in the negative feelings that come from dwelling on those thoughts and conversations. She has referred to it as repetitive thinking about conversations that were distressing in some way. She replays the conversation in her head, and evaluates and re-evaluates her responses. She then plays the conversation using possible different responses she COULD have used and worries whether these would have been better responses. The first individual is a friend where the friendship is very challenging and interwoven into many parts of my patient's life. My patient ruminates about conversations and wonders over and over if she said the right thing or wonders how the friend took what was said. It is a loop that my patient often gets stuck in for long periods of the day. The second individual is my patient's husband. With him, she ruminates about how to say things to him so she can motivate him to be involved in the ways she wants him to be. We will work on these relationships using the 5 secrets eventually, but first she'd like to work on the rumination because it takes up so much of her time. How can I help her? David’s Reply I would recommend TEAM CBT in a step-by-step manner. I do not, in general, like to throw techniques at people based on a description of a problem. Motivational techniques to reduce resistance and bring resistance to conscious awareness. Paradoxical Cost-Benefit Analysis Dangling the Carrot / Gentle Ultimatum / Sitting with Open Hands The Hidden Emotion Technique What If / Downward Arrow Technique ERP (Exposure plus response prevention) Many other techniques inspired by methods a and b above (TEAM CBT) Feared Fantasy: confronting her worst fear Five Secrets of Effective Communication Work on acceptance: she is perfectionistic and self-critical Hidden Emotion: anger Thanks for listening (and reading the show notes), David, Rhonda and Matt
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441: David, Rhonda and Matt Answer Your Questions about Relationships, Dating, and Religion
03/24/2025
441: David, Rhonda and Matt Answer Your Questions about Relationships, Dating, and Religion
Ask David My friend won’t say thank you! Dating Anxiety Religion vs. Psychotherapy We want to remind you about an awesome virtual workshop on habits and addictions that Dr. Jill Levitt and David will be presenting on March 28, 2025 We will feature powerful new paradoxical techniques that will blow your socks off. It will be from 8:30 to 4:30 and you will earn 7 CE credits while having fun and learning how to heal yourself AND you patients. Check it out! It's less than two weeks away, some check it out while you still have time! You'' LOVE it and LEARN a LOT! As is so often the case, the answers to these questions that appear in the show notes were email replies to the person before the show. To get the full discussion, make sure you listen to the actual podcast, as the answers often evolve in unexpected ways when the “experts” hash it out! Today’s episode is chock full of personal stories (some racy), expert Five Secrets advice and demonstration, philosophical / spiritual discussion, and secrets of successful (and racy) dating. 1. Brittany asks: What can I do say to a friend who does not say “thank you” when I pay for our meal or drive a long distance just to see them? 2. Jaydipe asks: How can I get over my anxiety around attractive women? 3. Ali asks: Can religious beliefs cause or intensify feelings of anxiety? (David will talk about the synergies between TEAM CBT and spirituality in all religions. He will also mention the potential antagonisms.) 1. Brittany asks: What can I do say to a friend who does not say “thank you” when I pay for our meal or drive a long distance just to see them. Hello David and Rhonda, I have a friend who typically does not say thank you to me when I pay for a meal out or drive us a long distance. I am someone who always says thank you even if the other person just bought us $10 worth of fast food or gave a short ride. I find myself feeling resentful towards my friend for not saying anything when I pay and drive us around all day. It makes me feel like they don’t appreciate it. At the same time, talking about it and sharing my feelings would then feel like I’m asking them to say it, and then it would not feel authentic. I have said something about it in the past, and they were like I’m sorry, thank you. But it didn’t mean much at that point. Is this one of those annoying traits I just learn to accept? Thank you, Brittany David’s reply Well, you could just use a gentle I Feel statement, which might be paradoxically stronger, but combined with Stroking. Like this, "Jennie, you know I think the world of you, and greatly enjoy our times together, but when I pay for lunch, or drive a distance to hang out with you, you rarely ever say "thank you," and then I feel hurt and unappreciated." Something like that combines Stroking with I Feel and might be effective. But I always rate myself on what I do, or say, and not so much on how the other person reacts. You could, perhaps, also ask if they are upset with you about something that they’ve had trouble expressing to you. Best, david 2. Jaydipe asks: How can I get over my anxiety around attractive women? Hi David Many thanks for the podcast I’m struggling with social anxiety and talking to attractive women and I’ve watched all the podcasts relating to it. I think deep down I have a shame around finding women attractive, so I find it difficult to express interest in them. I find that I can talk to them easily during activities like climbing or co workers, but even on dates with women I can’t seem to take things forwards playfully like you’d expect on a date. I’m too serious and I think that turns people off. I feel like I’m under the spotlight and I have to impress them otherwise they won’t like me. I know this isn’t true and I’ve been trying to get myself to do exposure therapy by asking girls for their numbers and being rejected so it helps with that. Also, I struggle with societal expectations, I hear women say that they don’t want to be approached or talked to or anything so I just end up avoiding them because I don’t want to annoy them, but it holds me back from getting the sex and relationships I want Any help much appreciated Thanks, Jaydipe David’s Reply I have included your excellent question on an upcoming Ask David. In the meantime, have you read my book on dating, Intimate Connections? Best, david PS Should I use your first name, or a fake first name? 3. Ali asks: Can religious beliefs cause or intensify feelings of anxiety? Dear Dr. Burns, After reading your books, I’ve started to recognize that many of my anxious beliefs seem to have a religious background. For example, in the Bible, there’s a verse from John 5:14: “Later Jesus found him at the temple and said to him, ‘See, you are well again. Stop sinning or something worse may happen to you.’” Here’s where I struggle: I want to live my life freely, which includes things like being with different girls before marriage (something I already do). But according to religion, this is considered adultery and a sin. Another verse that weighs heavily on me is from Matthew 5:27-29: “You have heard that it was said, ‘You shall not commit adultery.’ But I tell you that anyone who looks at a woman lustfully has already committed adultery with her in his heart. If your right eye causes you to stumble, gouge it out and throw it away. It is better for you to lose one part of your body than for your whole body to be thrown into hell.” I often find myself looking at beautiful women on the street, which Christianity teaches is sinful, and this sometimes leads to feelings of guilt. I wonder: do I need to leave religion altogether to break free from these negative, self-critical thoughts? I also have other related thoughts that seem to link my faith with the good things happening in my life. For instance: My life is going well right now. My parents are alive, my brother is getting married, I’m healthy, and I’ve been fortunate in many ways. I’ve had incredible experiences, like participating in two Erasmus+ exchange programs in Poland and Lithuania during university, volunteering in Latvia for a year, and even having my New Zealand visa approved in a highly competitive process (only 100 spots for 85 million people, and the application closed in 5 minutes!). I often think that these blessings are because I believe in Jesus, follow the Bible, and try to live as a good person who avoids sin and doesn’t deceive others. But then these anxious thoughts arise: I should always be thankful or pray, or else my life will fall apart. If I leave religion, something bad might happen—my parents could fall ill or pass away, and it would all feel like my fault for turning away from Jesus. Without faith, I’d lose my good fortune(luck), my appearance, and my opportunities. Wherever I apply to would be rejected, then I would understand that it was Jesus in the first place doing all of these things in my life, not me or vice versa! I'd find a terrible job, terrible working environment, terrible mutual relationships. Then everything would be my fault and I'd tell myself I should have believed in him in the first place but now I deserve everything that happens to me! These thoughts are overwhelming, and I’d love to hear your perspective on how to approach and challenge them. Thank you so much for your time and the invaluable insights you share in your work. Warm regards, Ali David’s reply Hi Ali, Sorry you are struggling with so many restrictions, judgments, and inhibitions! I can imagine it triggers anxiety, guilt, inadequacy, resentment, discouragement, and more. You can let me know! If you want, I can include this as an Ask David question on a podcast, with your first name, or a fake first name. Let me know if this works for you. Also, what religion are you? I know that many religions around the world can be very fundamentalistic and super strict in their teachings. My own religious upbringing had a touch of rigidity, too. Best, david Ali’s response to David Hello again, Actually, my family comes from the Christian (Orthodox-Armenian) minority in Turkey, where I was born and raised. So, I am an Orthodox Christian. You're absolutely right that I struggle with many restrictions and judgments. I’d love for you to include this as an "Ask David" question on a podcast since I haven’t seen any episode (and I’ve listened to most of your recent podcasts, including number 408: Do You Believe in God? Does God Exist?) that addresses this topic. By the way, I already use an alias, so "Ali" is a fake name, but you’re welcome to use it in your podcast! Here’s a quick DML (Daily Mood Log) to clarify what I’m dealing with: The Upsetting Event: Doing my daily half-hour Bible reading before bed and coming across certain verses. Emotions: Sad: 60% Anxious/Worried: 70% Inadequate: 60% Guilty/Bad: 90% Abandoned: 70% Pessimistic/Discouraged: 80% Stuck: 75% Angry/Resentful: 75% Tricked/Duped: 80% Although I don’t consider myself a devout Christian, over the past few years, I’ve started reading the Bible—the Old and New Testaments. Initially, I read them in my native language, but now I read in English to fully understand the content. Growing up in the church, I believed everything the priest taught. However, encountering some events and stories that seem illogical to me has made me question my beliefs. I often feel tricked and wonder if I’ve truly believed in all this. At the same time, I feel anxious and worried, as if questioning or criticizing my religion is a betrayal of God. Please let me know if you need any additional information. Ali David’s reply Thanks, Ali, this is super. I was also raised in a somewhat strict Christian (Lutheran) home, and as a child had plans to become a minister, like my dad. In college, I learned critical thinking, and began to question some of what I was taught when I was growing up. For example, there seemed to be a bit of a bias against Jews, and my dad said they had to convert to Christianity to be ”saved” and, I guess, avoid going to hell after they died. That didn’t sound right at all, not loving, as Christ taught, who was himself a Jew, but hostile and judgmental. And I had good friends who were Jewish, so it felt offensive. Same with people who were gay. A strong bias that this was somehow “bad” and sinful, or something like that. Christianity, in the sense of the Catholic church, was really created by people a couple hundred years after Christ died, and they were reflecting their own human biases when they wrote the new testament and translated the old testaments. For better or worse, I am personally not afraid to disagree with much of what is in the Bible, and interpret it, not literally, but as a series of stories trying to communicate important spiritual truths, but these truths get quite distorted when people began focusing on literal truths, rather than “seeing” the message. Literal translations of religion risk missing the spiritual meaning and truth. This is especially true of the orthodox movement within any religion. This tendency toward being literal, rigid, and judgmental may be a partially inherited, genetic trait. Regardless, to me, it is offensive and ugly, and definitely not religious, but quite the opposite. In the early days, lots of religious cults emerged, and they all had their own special leaders. If your leader couldn’t walk on water, that guru was considered inferior. So, it was fashionable to say that your spiritual guru could “walk on water.” What does that really mean? To me, it means that this person is pretty special, and much kinder and more loving than most others, and can perhaps convey some spiritual truths to us. But actual walking on water is a magic trick best left to television and stage magicians. This is my thinking only, and I do not wish to impose my thinking and beliefs on you or on anybody! I had tremendous respect and admiration for a Catholic nun, Sister Shela Flynn, who worked at my clinic in Philadelphia because she wanted to learn how to do CBT. She was humble and wonderful, and once shared with me that she also thought the stories in the bible were primarily metaphors, just stories trying to convey this or that idea about love, humility, and so forth. Not literally true stories you “had to” believe to be a “good Christian.” An, in addition, using my philosophy and CBT training, there is really no such “thing” as a “good Christian.” Positive and negative labels can be useful but can also be hurtful and destructive. Will stop babbling, and feel free to reject or ignore some or everything I am saying! But on an emotional level, I feel hurt, and angry about the literal “rules-based” versions of religion. Because I see, all over the world, atrocities being committed to a massive degree in the name of this or that “religion.” I am most comfortable with Buddhism, but even then, many people take it literally, make up rules, and so forth, just like other religions or spiritual “paths.” For some reason, people love to make up rules and then try to force others to conform to their beliefs and rules. This is due, in large part, to arrogance, and the desire to feel “special” and “superior” to others. These are not, to my way of thinking, spiritual qualities, but quite the opposite. Finally, I do not mention religion in my therapy, which is 100% secular, and based on research and on scientific research on how people actually change. But at the moment of recovery, which often happens in a flash, rather suddenly, the patient often “sees” something of a spiritual nature which they had not seen or grasped before. I have never seen anyone lose their religious beliefs because of effective therapy, but quite the opposite. In fact, what we might call “recovery from depression” (or some other problem) sometimes looks an awful lot like what the religious mystics from all religions have called “enlightenment.” So, that’s the sermon my dad would have perhaps wanted me to preach from a pulpit! I guess this is my pulpit, and you are in my congregation! And this Sunday morning here in Los Altos, so that’s the end of today’s sermon! Best, david Contact information You can sign up for the David and Jill workshop on healthier habits here:
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440: Who is the REAL David?
03/17/2025
440: Who is the REAL David?
Getting to Know David David Answers Personal Questions! We all know David Burns as the creator of TEAM-CBT, but not many people get to know David, the person. It is fun to know David the person, because he is just like all of us. He is a real person (not a robot), full of life and love. I want everyone in our audience to be able to relate to David on a deeper level, to feel a sense of connection with him, and hopefully for all of us to build our sense of community with each other. Thanks so much to Stan Dickens, TEAM UK, for submitting these questions and sparking this discussion. The complete list of questions was much longer, but I (Rhonda) have selected the ones listed below. I hope you like listening to this podcast, Rhonda The questions are not necessarily in the order listed below, but all are answered on this podcast. David’s answers are all 100% spontaneous, and you will hear them on the podcast! Music & Entertainment 1. Which band do you like most, the Beatles or the Rolling Stones? (David, please say The Beatles!) 2. Following on from that, what kind of music do you listen to? Can you tell us about some of your favorite musicians, bands, or composers? Here are some links to just a few of a great many favorite songs of mine. David Tom Waits Never Let Go (of your hand) Rickey Nelson It’s Up to You James Brown Please Please Please Mick Jagger and Muddy Waters Please Don’t Go! Jim Croce I’ll have to say I love you in a song Last Train Home Pat Metheny Lucy Thomas “Hallelujah” 3. If your life were turned into a film, who would play you? 4. Can you speak with an English accent? Would you be brave enough to give it a try right now? Career & Professional Reflections 5. If you hadn’t dedicated your life to cognitive behavioral therapy and mental health or authored Feeling Good, what might you have done instead? 6. Is there a common misconception about you or your work that you’d like to clear up? Personal Insights & Philosophy 7. If you could have dinner with three historical or modern figures, dead or alive, who would it be and why? 8. If you could give your younger self just one piece of advice, what would it be? 9. How did you meet Melanie, and what do you love most about her?
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439: The Vape Escape!
03/10/2025
439: The Vape Escape!
Vaping--Why and How I Quit. Featuring Dr. Kyle Jones Today we feature a beloved friend and esteemed colleague, Dr. Kyle Jones who will talk to us how he escaped from his vaping addiction. Kyle is a clinical psychologist in private practice, now residing in Los Angeles. However, he works virtually throughout California. He co-leads the OCD Consultation Group, a monthly consultation group for clinicians wanting to improve their competence in treating OCD. He also servs on the adjunct faculty at Palo Alto University where he teaches in the clinical psychology masters and PhD programs. He's recently joined the alumni council in the Department of Psychological and Brain Sciences at the University of California, Santa Barbara. This is the fourth in our recent series on TEAM CBT for habits and addictions (431, Screen Addictions with Brandon Vance; 437, Porn Addiction with Thai An Truong; 438, Overcoming Habits & Addictions with Jill Leavitt). We want to remind you about an awesome virtual workshop on habits and addictions that Dr. Jill Levitt and I will be presenting on March 28th. We will feature powerful new paradoxical techniques that will blow your socks off. It will be from 8:30 to 4:30 and you will earn 7 CE credits while having fun and learning how to heal yourself AND you patients. Check it out! Today, Kyle gave a brief history of vaping, which entered the scene around 2010, and described the experience as pleasurable and addictive. An estimated 3 million teens are addicted, and the flavored versions are quite tasty, but banned in California. He described his first exposure to smoking when he was 19, and living in Paris. It was “the” thing to do at that time, but he eventually gave it up, but later began to take a hit or two of vaping at a party, and then purchased his own vaping device in 2023. “Shamefully, he says, I tried to hide it from my partner and from other people, and I would vape in the bathroom.” He vaped for most of 2024, but explains that eventually, it got out of hand. At New Year’s 2025, he listed the advantages versus the disadvantages of vaping, and made the decision to give it up. This was difficult because of the withdrawal effects that lasted for several weeks, including intense cravings, fatigue, difficulty sleeping, irritability, anxiety, and the urge to overeat. The TEAM CBT technique that helped the most was HAL, the Habit and Addiction Log, and we demonstrated the Devil’s Advocate Technique. Rhonda and David played the role of the Tempting Thoughts and Kyle bravely battle back. Here’s the list of thoughts: 1. I’m driving, so I can just vape in the car. 2. Here’s a chance for a nice break. I can vape right now!\ 3. I can take another hit, no problem! I’ll just get a little feeling of pleasure. 4. I need It tastes sooo gooood! We translated the “I” statements into “you” statements to maximize the temptation, and were as seductive as possible. But no matter how hard we tried to tempt Kyle, he won “huge” and hit it out of the park. We discussed Relapse Prevention, and Kyle described being at a party on Friday where some people were vaping and sharing the vape. We also described and illustrated the powerful Triple Paradox, which works paradoxically. I have personally trained Kyle in TEAM CBT, along with many other fine TEAM teachers, and he was always brilliant, compassionate and extremely effective in his therapy work. He works with the full spectrum of mood and anxiety disorders, and has a bit of a specialty in the treatment of OCD. Thanks for listening today!
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Episode 438 Habits and Addictions: The TEAM Approach
03/03/2025
Episode 438 Habits and Addictions: The TEAM Approach
Episode 438 The TEAM Approach to Habits and Addictions Powerful New, Radically Different Approaches that Can Help! Today, Dr. Jill Levitt joins David and Rhonda to discuss and illustrate the TEAM CBT approach to habits and addictions and give a little promo for their upcoming online workshop on Habits and Addictions on March 28, 2025. You can sign up for the workshop here: Although the workshop is for mental health professionals, participants will have the chance to work on their own habits and addictions during the workshop in order to gain a more in-depth understanding of the new treatment methods for: Overeating / binging / restricting Drugs Alcohol Procrastination Doomscrolling Excessive cell phone use Internet addiction Excessive use of social media Shop-a-Holic Biting fingernails Video games Gambling And more David emphasized that nearly all current treatment methods frequently fall short because they focus on control of symptoms using behavior modification rather than the cause. He describes a research study at the Stanford inpatient unit that indicated that 50 common DSM Diagnoses (such as mood disorders, anxiety disorders, personality disorders, and more) were not significantly correlated with any of the DSM addictive / misuse disorders including drugs, alcohol, eating disorders, and gambling, which was not really consistent with the beliefs of many that emotional factors play a central causal role in addictions. In fact, the only significant correlation he noted was between depression and overeating, but the correlation was in the negative direction—in other words, higher levels of depression were associated with weight loss, not weight gain. And, in addition, the magnitude of the correlation was extremely small, indicating that other factors play a far more important role. So, what is the explanation for this puzzling and anti-intuitive finding? David described a 5-item survey he developed which asks about temptations in use or give in to your habit / addiction in the past week. This tool, in contrast to all of the DSM diagnoses, was very strongly correlated with all the addictions. This suggests that we give in to our habits and addictions for one simple reason--they make us feel great! At least in the short term! 150 years ago, they didn’t have an epidemic of obesity in America. Why not? Life was likely just as stressful as it is now, maybe even more so! But what they didn’t have was all the fast food restaurants and all the gooey, tasty foods that are abundantly available today, and they didn’t have the resources to purchase them, either. This doesn’t mean that behavioral models or diets or other tools have no value. But the TEAM CBT model focuses first on assessing the patient’s motivation for and resistance to treatment using a variety of powerful and innovative new techniques, including: The Triple Paradox The Ten Positive Distortions The Habits and Addictions Log (HAL) The Devil’s Advocate Technique The Five-Minute Rule The “I Stubbornly Refused” Technique The Anti-Procrastination Sheet Relapse Prevention Techniques utilizing The Externalization of Voices The Acceptance Paradox Stimulus Control And more They emphasized that these are methods, but not in the ordinary sense, because they rely heavily on the use of paradox, which is unfamiliar to many therapists, and require a great deal of skill. Jill and David first discussed the nature of tempting thoughts and how positive distortions work. Then, they illustrated the Devil’s Advocate Technique with Rhonda who volunteered to work on her temptation to overeat chocolate, and especially chocolate chip cookies with peanut butter, and listed several of her tempting thoughts, including: 1. A little chocolate chip cookie can’t hurt. 2. I have to keep them in the house because my husband loves them. 3. Just one cookie. It will taste SOOOO Gooood! 4. I can always work out a little more. 5. That cookie smells Sooo Good! I just CAN’T resist. Jill and David played the tempting part of Rhonda’s brain, and she played the part that resisted the temptations. She started strong, but her conviction seemed to weaken on the third thought, and she didn’t win “huge.” Instead of doing a role reversal to “help” or “save” her, David said that perhaps that wasn’t really something she was willing to give up, and perhaps we could work on something else instead. She INSTANTLY did a complete turnaround and won “huge” when they gave her another chance to defeat the tempting voice. David and Jill emphasized that paradox nearly always wins, and “helping” nearly always fails. But this is why these methods are so challenging—because the therapist’s well-intentioned attempts to help nearly always backfire, and yet are extremely difficult to resist. Jill and David emphasize that prior to doing this type of role-playing method, it is crucial to find out if this is something the patient really wants help with, and Jill emphasized that we rarely or never impose an agenda on any patient. We do not have any belief that there is a “correct” way for people to be. Rhonda—or any patient--will first have to convince us that this is something she really wants help with. And that will be one of the many take home messages for the therapists who attend on March 28th. Thanks for listening today, and be sure to tune in again next week! Jill, Rhonda, and David
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437: Overcoming Your Porn Addiction
02/24/2025
437: Overcoming Your Porn Addiction
Overcoming Your Porn Addiction Featuring the Awesome Thai-An Truong! 🎙️ Hosts: Dr. David Burns, Creator of TEAM-CBT and author of Feeling Good Rhonda Barovsky, Co-Host and Therapist at the Feeling Great Therapy Center 🎉 Special Guest: Thai-Ann Truong. Licensed Professional Counselor, Licensed Alcohol and Drug Counselor and a Superb TEAM-CBT Teacher, Trainer, and Super-Shrink who specializes in the treatment of Trauma, OCD, and marital / relationship dysfunction, including the impact of a porn addiction on couples In this jam-packed episode, of the Feeling Good podcast, David and Rhonda welcome Thai-An Troung, Level 5 TEAM therapist and trainer, licensed professional counselor, licensed alcohol and drug counselor and expert in addictions, to discuss the complex issue of pornography addiction. Thai-An shares her insights on the rising prevalence of porn use, its impact on relationships, and the psychological and physiological effects of addiction. The conversation delves into the symptoms of porn addiction, the importance of psychoeducation, and the application of TEAM therapy methods to help individuals and couples recover from the negative consequences of porn use. Thai-An emphasizes the need for awareness and understanding of how porn can affect brain chemistry and relationship dynamics, ultimately offering hope for recovery and healing. This conversation delves into the complexities of addiction, particularly focusing on porn addiction and its impact on pleasure and motivation. We discuss the importance of understanding the psychological aspects of addiction, including the loss of pleasure and the role of motivation in recovery. We explore various TEAM tools, such as the triple paradox, to address motivation and cravings, and emphasize the significance of social support in the recovery process. The discussion also touches on the nuances of sexual identity and the importance of abstinence when overcoming porn addiction. Finally, we highlight the need for specialized training for therapists working with couples facing these challenges. Key Topics Covered: * Porn addiction is a growing concern in modern society. * There is no moral judgment on porn use; it can be healthy for some. * Statistics show a significant rise in porn use among young people. * Abstinence from porn can improve relationship satisfaction. * Porn addiction can lead to sexual dysfunction and intimacy issues. * Sexual conditioning can alter attraction to real-life partners. * Psychoeducation is crucial for understanding porn addiction. * Brain chemistry is significantly affected by porn use. * Withdrawal symptoms from porn can include flatlining and social paralysis. * Porn addiction can lead to a depletion of pleasure and joy in life. * Understanding motivation is crucial for overcoming addiction. * The Triple Paradox can effectively address motivation in therapy. * Social support plays a vital role in recovery from addiction. * Abstinence is often necessary for healing from porn addiction. * Therapists should explore the benefits of addiction with clients. * Clients may find deeper connections through shared experiences in therapy. *Therapists need to be aware of the complexities of sexual identity. *Training and resources for therapists are essential for effective treatment. * Therapists can help clients find sustainable satisfaction beyond addiction. Listener Challenge 🌟 Try Out the Feeling Great app! Want to experience TEAM-CBT’s transformative power? Download the Feeling Great App or join an upcoming beta test to see the magic of its AI-driven mood and self-esteem coaching. You'll find it all at FeelingGreat.com! 💬 Feedback: We love hearing from you! Share your thoughts about today’s podcast. Send us your questions for an Ask David diopside 🛠️ Get Involved: Interested in joining a Feeling Great App beta? Reach out to Jason Meno at [email protected] 📚 Resources Mentioned: Feeling Good by Dr. David Burns Learn more about TEAM-CBT and the Feeling Great App TEAM-CBT at . ✨ Don’t forget to subscribe to the Feelinggood.com or Feelinggreat.com YouTube channels, and rate, and review! Thank you for listening! Thai-An, Rhonda and David
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436: What's Special About TEAM-CBT
02/17/2025
436: What's Special About TEAM-CBT
Swimming in an Ocean of Gold-- The Unique Magic of TEAM-CBT! 🎙️ Hosts: Dr. David Burns, Creator of TEAM-CBT and author of Feeling Good Rhonda Barovsky, Co-Host and Therapist at the Feeling Great Therapy Center 🎉 Special Guests: Jeremy Karmel, CEO of the Feeling Great App Jason Meno, AI Content Lead and Developer of the Feeling Great App Episode Summary In this jam-packed episode, the Feeling Good team dives deep into the groundbreaking elements of TEAM-CBT. From rapid emotional transformations to the app’s jaw-dropping AI breakthroughs, this conversation will leave you inspired and ready to explore how TEAM-CBT can transform lives. Whether you’re a therapist, someone seeking self-help, or simply curious, this episode delivers gold at every turn. Key Topics Covered 🧪 T = Testing: Why measuring emotions and progress at every session is a game-changer. How testing reveals what therapists often miss and ensures rapid results. Hear Dr. Burns' incredible stories, including how testing saved a life. 💛 E = Empathy: Busting myths about cold, clinical therapy. How warmth and deep connections are at the heart of TEAM-CBT. Rhonda shares her powerful story about learning empathy and its transformational effects on her practice and personal life. 🧠 A = Assessment of Resistance: The revolutionary concept of honoring your “resistance to change.” Why it’s essential to embrace the positive aspects of negative feelings. Jason shares how paradoxical agenda setting melted years of stuckness in minutes. 🎭 M = Methods: The unparalleled arsenal of 140+ techniques to tackle every problem. Role-playing methods like Externalization of Voices and Feared Fantasy—how they create breakthroughs in minutes. Jeremy explains why therapists need to match the right tools to the right problems. Fun Highlights Money-Back Guarantee for the Podcast (It’s free!) Jeremy’s hilarious take on “jiggling your eyes into happiness.” The “critic from hell” gets crushed in real-time role-play. Why TEAM-CBT Stands Out Rapid, measurable results – No more endless talking without change. Powerful empathy – A therapy that connects deeply with your emotions. Resistance embraced – Discover the beauty in your struggles. Diverse methods – 140+ techniques tailored to every unique challenge. Listener Challenge 🌟 Try It Out! Want to experience TEAM-CBT’s transformative power? Download the Feeling Great App or join the upcoming beta test to see the magic of its AI-driven mood and self-esteem coaching. Next Week 🎙️ Tune in for Episode 437: Breaking Free from Your Porn Addiction, with Thai-An Truong from Oklahoma City 💬 Feedback: We love hearing from you! Share your thoughts about today’s podcast. 🛠️ Get Involved: Interested in joining the Feeling Great App beta? Reach out to Jason and the team! 📚 Resources Mentioned: Feeling Good by Dr. David Burns Learn more about TEAM-CBT at . 👉 Quote of the Week: "TEAM-CBT isn’t just therapy—it’s swimming in an ocean of gold." ✨ Don’t forget to subscribe to the Feelinggood.com or Feelinggreat.com YouTube channels, and rate, and review!
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435: Meet Erik Burns!
02/10/2025
435: Meet Erik Burns!
Hypnosomatic Therapy Featuring Erik Burns In this episode of the Feeling Good podcast, we hear from another David Burns—not me (David Dean Burns), but rather David Erik Burns, my wonderful and beloved son. Erik discusses his journey in creating BloomHarmony.org, his new clinical practice that integrates hypnotherapy with somatic work. To kick things off, Erik shares personal stories about his relationship with his father, David, including the story of his birth and struggle to breathe in the pediatric intensive care unit, and how touch has played a significant role in his life and healing journey. He emphasizes the idea that words alone sometimes fall short in attempts to convey love or transmit healing. A loving touch, in contrast, can make an immediate and profound impact. Today’s conversation delves into the mind-body connection and the importance of emotional expression in therapy. Erik calls his innovative approach hypnosomatic healing, which involves a combination of guided hypnotic imagery with massage. The mind/body connection refers to the dynamic relationship between your thoughts, emotions, beliefs, and attitudes (the mind), and your physical health and bodily functions (the body). Erik emphasizes the transformative power of touch and the need for openness in therapeutic settings, exploring how these elements can lead to a profound healing experience. Erik also discusses the tremendous value of longer therapy sessions as well as the powerful role of trance states in therapy and in life. They also discuss the ethical balance between therapist livelihood (which naturally requires charging for sessions) and the therapist’s genuine commitment to the relief of suffering, regardless of the patient’s financial resources. Both Erik and his dad, David Sr., agree that in an ideal world, health care would be free and available to all, and regret having to charge for treatment. Erik always takes the needs of his clients into account and works for a reduced fee or for free if needed. Erik explains how and why the mind-body connection is so crucial to genuine healing and describes the importance of energy management during sessions Here's how he explains it: Energy management is about showing up with the proper state of consciousness for a session. Transpersonal work relies heavily on the therapist interpersonal relationship, so the state I am in has a huge influence on the outcome. We teach a 3-sided model: emptiness, awareness, and love. "Energy" management would be the preparation I do to both Empty myself from pre-conceived notions (AKA getting out of my own way), to step into observer consciousness, and to become rooted in love. I guess a simpler way to describe energy management would be to become an open unconditional channel and to silence the monkey mind as much as possible. I believe I may have been referring to the inner child dialog I often do before a session to help achieve this state. The dialogue also explores the transformative experiences clients can undergo in therapy and the tools therapists can use to empower clients who feel helpless, hopeless, or defeated. The personal connection between therapists and clients is highlighted as a crucial element in the healing process. While gut problems, such as irritable bowel and chronic abdominal complaints are important targets for hypnosomatic therapy, Erik emphasizes the potential value of his approach for a wide variety of complaints, including Emotional problems Depression, grief, despair Loss of motivation, pleasure or satisfaction in life Anxiety / stress / worry / panic / fear Recent or past trauma Feelings of inadequacy, inferiority, worthlessness Feelings of hopelessness, discouragement, and frustration Interpersonal difficulties Anger Relationship conflicts Loneliness Feeling isolated, unlovable, unloved Blame, bitterness and resentment Physical / somatic complaints Chronic belly pain, back pain, chest pain, headache, etc. Chronic fatigue / exhaustion / burn out Dizziness Spiritual Feeling empty, rudderless and lost Wondering, “Who am I?” Wondering, “What’s the meaning and purpose of my life?” Wondering, “Why am I struggling and suffering?” Here are Erik’s actual words, from his website, BloomHarmon.org: I Hi, I’m Erik. I believe in your potential to live a pain-free, vibrant life. Why do I believe in you? Pain relief is not just my profession — it's also my personal journey. I've lived with gut disorders for most of my life, including food allergies to wheat and milk, intermittent pain, and ulcers. I sought help from Western doctors but never received much relief. Modifying my diet provided some improvement, but it never fully addressed the underlying issues. Finally, I discovered hypnotherapy, and my life really started to change. As an undergraduate at Stanford University, I studied neurophysiology and deepened my understanding of the mind-body connection. I also trained in deep tissue and polarity massage, which showed me how treating the mind and body together can maximize the effects of each approach. This holistic understanding led me to develop my primary modality, hypnosomatics, a comprehensive body care treatment that combines elements of massage and hypnotherapy to supercharge recovery. A lot of research has been done into the underlying causes of chronic gut pain. Conditions like IBS, SIBO, and GERD have been studied extensively. Gut-directed hypnotherapy (GDH) is widely considered the most medically effective form of treatment for these types of conditions, with treatment success rates often exceeding 70-80%. This discovery was transformative for me, and it can be for you too. Today, I am mostly pain-free and thriving, and I want to share the tools and techniques that were so helpful for me. My approach to well-being goes beyond reducing pain; it's about empowering you to transform your own life from within and, ultimately, to thrive. Thank you for listening today! Erik, Rhonda, and David
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434: The One-Minute Drill; Memory Rescripting; and More!
02/03/2025
434: The One-Minute Drill; Memory Rescripting; and More!
David, Matt, and Rhonda Answer Your Questions! What's the One-Minute Drill work? How does it work? What's Memory Rescripting? How does it work? How can I endure boring and irrelevant college work? Aaron asks: How do you do the One Minute Drill? Aaron asks how and why Memory Rescripting helped a college student overcome her fears of public transportation (e.g. agoraphobia). Gray asks: How can I endure having to do boring work in college and beyond? Two questions from Aaron W. C. who is a Licensed Master Social Worker in Idaho, and said, “I look forward to the podcast.” 1. Hi Dr. Burns, Can you share how you do the one-minute drill? In When Panic Attacks, you only mentioned the name but not how it works. Thank you, Aaron W. California David’s reply We'll explain and demonstrate it on the podcast. It's a partially helpful tool for troubled couples who argue and fail to listen. 2. Hi Dr. Burns, I completed rereading When Panic Attacks yesterday night. I have a question about one of the case examples you mentioned. In the book, you mention a patient that has a phobia of taking public transportation. She did the reimagination exercise of picturing herself castrating the men that harmed her roommate and branded the man that hurt her as a child. If remember right, the book does not link using the "reimagination exercise" to overcoming her fear of taking public transportation. How did the reimagination exercise help her overcome the fear of taking public transportation? I have reread the book two times this year! Thank you, Aaron W. California---LMSW (Idaho) David’s reply I am happy to include your question on an upcoming Feeling Good Podcast. Can I use your first name? Thanks! I can answer two of your questions, and can even demonstrate the one-minute drill, and discuss its uses and limitations. Best, david 3. Gray asks about feeling better about post-secondary education Hi David, I struggle with intense anger, frustration, and depression while doing college coursework, with recurring thoughts like, “This is pointless,” “This work is for nobody, ” "I'm just working to work," "I'm being hazed," and “I profoundly don’t care!” I’m interested in law school because I’d love being a lawyer, but I worry that I won’t be mentally healthy in that environment. Many lawyers say 80+% of law school is irrelevant and doesn’t adequately prepare you to practice law or even to pass the Bar, so I expect similar frustrations would resurface. I’ve looked into this very carefully and I’m convinced that the basic substance of my thoughts has bulletproof empirical grounding (outside of STEM, for sure). How could I manage these distortions when I’m in the midst of law school homework? P.S. I’m quite hostile to appeals about how I would actually learn important things in class or about developing resilience for its own sake, so I’d prefer to avoid that line of thinking unless it's really important. Thank you, Gray David’s reply Can you give me an example of one of your negative thoughts. They always contain some truth, by the way. Perhaps you’re trapped in a Hidden Should Statement. Are you wanting to feel happy about having to do boring homework, or are you wanting not to have to do boring homework? What’s your goal, in other words. All therapeutic failure, just about, is due to a failure of agenda setting. In other words, reducing resistance is the key prior to crushing distortions. Warmly, david There is certainly a great deal of irrelevant stuff one has to plow through to get a college or graduate degree, for sure. So there seems to be a lot of wisdom in your negative thoughts and feelings. I guess my question would be, what type of help, if any, are you looking for? Best, david Gray responds Subject: Re: Feeling better about post-secondary education My hidden should statements are something like "I shouldn't have to do this." and" I should be able to prove myself by doing real work instead". I am hoping to be able to do lots of boring/irrelevant homework and be okay about it, not even necessarily happy. Then I could go to law school and be in passable mental health. Thanks again! Gray David Replies Well, you’re right on all counts, including “I shouldn’t have to do this.” In fact, you DON’T “have to” do it. And if you do stick with it, there’s no rule that says you have to stop whining and complaining! I made the choice of going to medical school and hated it. Worst medical student they had. But I had to complete medical school and psychiatric residency in order to become a psychiatrist. Don’t think I learned much of anything in medical school or psychiatric residency that ever really helped any of my patients at that time. But now I have a life I really enjoy, although there are still negatives I have to put up with. Warmly, david One last thing to add. The boring, trivial work does not upset you. Only your distorted thoughts can upset you. The truth in your thoughts is real but does not upset you. You are saying that you SHOULD NOT have to do trivial boring work. Where did you get that idea. Did you think you were entitled to a universe that conforms to your demands? Why should the world be the way you want it to be? There’s an irritating voice in your brain that keeps telling you that you should have to do this and you shouldn’t have to do that. That voice is your enemy, your source of angst, and not the actual work. So, your first step is to make a decision, perhaps two Cost-Benefit Analyses. The first might be the Advantages and Disadvantages of loudly protesting and insisting it SHOULDN’T be this way. There will be many advantages and a few disadvantages as well. Now balance the Adv against the Dis on a 100 point scale at the bottom, putting the higher number under the column that feels the more desirable or impactful. For example, if the ADV are a lot greater, your two numbers might be 70-30. Then you might do a second CBS listing the Advantages and Disadvantages of ACCEPTING the fact that school often sucks. There may be some advantages and a few disadvantages as well. Now balance the Adv against the Dis on a 100 point scale at the bottom, putting the higher number under the column that feels the more desirable or impactful. For example, if the DIS of acceptance are a lot greater, your two numbers might be 25-75. Send me your two analyses when you’re done! If you come to the unlikely decision that acceptance is preferably to shoulding on yourself, there are lots of strategies that might help. But I’d need to know where you stand first, or the methods would be a waste of time. Anger, unlike most negative feelings, is highly addictive, and most people don’t want to let go of it. You could also do Positive Reframing of your anger and negative thoughts, which is super powerful, but this is getting a bit long. Best, david David follow-up for podcast audience: As far as I can tell, Gray didn’t respond to my email. Sad!
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433: Ask David: Anxiety, Depression, Boring Dates, Scary Thoughts
01/27/2025
433: Ask David: Anxiety, Depression, Boring Dates, Scary Thoughts
David, Matt, and Rhonda Answer Your Questions! 1. How can I help my depressed son? 2. What can you do on a boring first date? 3. Are depression and anxiety genetic and hopeless? 4. What do scary, intrusive thoughts mean? The answers to this week’s questions were written by David prior to the podcast. The live discussions will add greatly to the comments below. Get consent on first question, or change name. In fact, I’ll just change her name to Henrietta. Henrietta asks how she can help her son who’s been severely depressed for nearly 20 years and rejects all suggestions. Julia asks what to do on a boring first date. Negar asks if anxiety and depression are genetically caused and therefore hopeless . Negar asks about scary intrusive thoughts. 1. Henrietta asks how she can help her son who’s been severely depressed for nearly 20 years and rejects all suggestions. Dear Dr David I discovered you years ago due to my son’s depression. I purchased your book for him, but he not reading it. He thinks he is too far gone for any self help and has been on anti depressants for years. I appreciate all your hard work , the blogs and the app. I have my hopes up that one day he will listen to you or download the app. This depression has been going on more than 18 years now. Do you have any ideas on how I could get him to listen to you on You tube? God bless you and your team. Keep up the good work! Best regards Henrietta David’s reply Hi Henrietta, I’m so sorry he’s struggling. I do have a clear recommendation, clearly spelled out in the podcast of a couple years ago, “How to help. And how NOT to help.” You can easily find it on the list of podcasts on my website. I’m sure that his depression has been heart-breaking for you. But there is a radically different strategy / direction one can pursue when efforts to “help” are 100% rejected. LMK if I can use your question on an Ask David podcast. Then you’ll get input from several of us. Warmly, david 2. Julia asks what to do on a boring first date. Dear David Just saw that you published a podcast about how to give negative feedback, absolutely cannot wait to listen to it. I’m afraid I fall in the category of people who tend omitting opinions and this is going to be of great help! Now to my question: how do I get more excited in dates with guys ? I would like to date more and have a more active sexual life but I find myself getting bored in dates and this affects also my libido. I will have thoughts like: this is boring he is not that attractive I won’t be turned on sex won’t be good I obviously then don’t end up having sex with the guy and try to have a date with someone else. In the date I don’t feel anxious but I’m not excited physically and mentally. The anxiety plays a role before I go to the next scheduled dates, because with time I start thinking this feeling of boredom will never go away. I have tried to work on the thoughts myself with little results and I was wondering if you had any suggestions on how I could be less bored and anxious and enjoy myself. Thanks you for your answer and your amazing work! Best wishes, Julia David’s Reply Great question, and I have an answer. Can we include this in the next Ask David, using your first name or a fake first name? Thanks, Warmly, david You are viewing dating as a shopping expedition, trying to “find” the best item to purchase, and finding your shopping boring, which it is. But you are forcing it to be boring because you are not being open with your feelings. You are foolishly trying to hide your feelings of boredom, whereas they are really the door to fascination and a most interesting and dynamic exchange. Let me show you what I mean. You can, instead, view dating as forming a relationship, being open, and genuine, and a little flirtatious, and seeing how things unfold. So, or example, you might say something along these lines, “You seem like a really neat and interesting person, but I notice that our conversation is not very open, or vulnerable, and that makes it way less interesting. Have you notice that, too? Tell me how you’re feeling.” If you express this, things will instantly get very interesting! You are not trying to hurt their feelings, but rather open up a conversation about feelings, by encouraging them to be real. They may also be feeling bored, or anxious, or whatever. As a psychiatrist, I find that when I explore the feelings and insecurities of my patients, it is always interesting. And when there is tension, including boredom, I acknowledge it to find out what’s up, and how is my patient experiencing the session and our interaction, and that is interesting 100% of the time, without exception. Warmly, david Dear David, Thank you for such an amazing answer! I have listened to the podcasts so many times and I am familiar with the concept of sharing the tensed feelings like boredom, to not force the other person to be boring. However I had never thought to apply it to dating!! It is such a foreign concept to how all my friends approach dating, that I will need first to experiment with it. I’m curious to see if I’m going to be brave enough to take this leap! Cannot wait to hear the podcast! All the best, Giulia 3. Negar asks if anxiety and depression are genetically caused and therefore hopeless . Hello, my kind father🦋💙, I hope you are well💝. I have a question. Many people I see who suffer from panic attacks and experience anxiety and major depression believe that they have a family and genetic background. That is why they do not have much hope that psychotherapy can help them and believe that the defective gene for causeless anxiety and panic is turned on in the nucleus of their cells. What do you think? Is it possible to deactivate these defective genes with psychotherapy sessions, meditation, etc.?!🥲 David’s Reply There is evidence that anxiety is inherited, and my mother had fear of heights, for example. I also got fear of heights and more than a dozen other forms of anxiety: fear of blood, dogs, vomiting, social situations, public speaking, cameras, panic attack once, and much more. But I have found that the techniques I use in therapy have helped greatly. I got over my fear of blood, for example, in twenty minutes working in the emergency room of a hospital and treating a severe trauma patient covered in blood. Everything about humans is genetic. We are born unable to speak a language, and yet we learn. So, to me, the argument is kind of silly and naïve. Just because something is influenced by genetics, and everything is, how does it follow that we cannot grow and learn? The whole notion seems to me to be ridiculous. Now, there are some genetic things that cannot be changed. For example, how tall you are, or the color of your hair (of course you can dye your hair if you want.) So everything has limits. The belief that you cannot change the way you feel will act as a self-fulfilling prophecy, since you won’t try, but that doesn’t make it true! Here’s something that IS true: Your feelings constantly are changing, at every minute of every day from the moment of birth. So anyone who argues that feelings CANNOT change is just wrapped up in a complete delusion! But people are welcome to believe whatever they want, of course. I believe strongly in freedom of thought. I also believe that people have the RIGHT to be WRONG! Best, david Will use as another excellent Ask David question if okay. Thanks for the great photo. Do you want me to include it in the show notes for that podcast episode? PS I will soon publish a video on my YouTube channel showing a 5 ½ minute cure for a woman with ten years of extreme panic attacks every week. Panic is probably the easiest thing to treat. 4. Negar asks about scary intrusive thoughts. Hello my kind father I hope you are in a good mood and continue to be full of energy as always I had a question I see in some people that they say that we have scary and useless thoughts This case is interesting for me too, because sometimes I have absurd and meaningless thoughts But since I meditate and do mindfulness exercises, I came to the conclusion that these are just thoughts. Did you have such an experience?😉 David’s Reply Yes, I have treated many people with frightening, intrusive thoughts and images, common in OCD / intense anxiety. Often, something is happening in that person’s life that is bothering them, but they are not dealing with itself, instead they sweep their feelings, of anger or whatever, under the rug and try to avoid them. Result = obsessions. There’s a whole section on this in my book, When Panic Attacks, and you can look up my podcasts on the Hidden Emotion Technique. Best, david
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432: Finding Humans Less Scary Marathon Returns! Yay!
01/20/2025
432: Finding Humans Less Scary Marathon Returns! Yay!
Jacob Towery, MD Michael Luo, MD Finding Humans Less Scary The 3rd Annual Triumphant Return of the Incredibly Popular and Awesomely Effective Social Anxiety Marathon Two Full Days of Unbelievable-- and Incredibly Cheap-- Help for You! Featuring Two Super-Shrinks--Drs. Jacob Towery and Michal Luo (In-Person Only, No Zoom) 9:30 AM - 5:30 PM Saturday and Sunday Today we interview two eminent and fantastic psychiatrists, Dr. Jacob Towery and Dr. Michael Luo, who describe their upcoming and mind-blowing two-day social anxiety weekend marathon, This intensive experience is dedicated to addressing and drastically reducing feelings of social anxiety. What's that? Social anxiety simply refers to the intense discomfort that so many people struggle with in social situations and interaction's with strangers. This will NOT just be some kind o head trip or motivational talk, but rather a fabulous experiential journey into a new and more confident you! Do you want freedom from your fears? Do you want a new life and a radical shift in your views of other human beings. Do you want great love, more friendships and deeper and more genuine connections? How much does it cost, you ask? It cost a great deal in terms of courage and the decision to change your life--but it's ridiculously cheap in terms of $.:All we ask is your $20 donation to one of the charities listed on the website. The location will be secret until you register, but it will be in Palo Alto, California. Seating, as in previous years, will be strictly limited, so ACT FAST to reserve your spot! How does it work? Well, you'll learn and practice many of the popular and powerful TEAM-CBT methods, in real world settings, such as Shame-Attacking Exercises, Smile and Hello Practice, Talk Show Host, Rejection Training, Flirtation Practice, Self-Disclosure, the Survey Technique, and much, much more. Thank you for listening today! Jacob, Michael, Rhonda, and David
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431: Screen Addictions, Featuring Brandon Vance, MD
01/13/2025
431: Screen Addictions, Featuring Brandon Vance, MD
Overcome Your Screen Addictions! Featuring Dr. Brandon Vance Today we interview Dr. Brandon Vance, the Founder of the wildly popular Feeling Great Book Clubs and many other psychoeducational groups for the general public as well as shrinks. Today, he tells us about his latest group designed for people with the newly named "screen addiction." Dr. Vance formed this group because of many recent research studies suggesting a link between the time spent with social media sites and increased feelings of loneliness and depression in teens and adults. Although correlational studies do not prove causality, many of these studies are compatibles with the hypothesis that excessive time on social media may reduce the quality of moods as well as personal relationships, to say nothing of the potential negative impact on work and productivity. On the podcast he gave examples of how technology has been built into our lives, and how eqsy it is to pick up your cell phone, even in the company of others. However, screen addiction can also involve tlevision binge-watching, video games, and more. We demonstrated an example of the Devil's Advocate Technique, one of many techniques help combat positive thoughts that suck us into screen addictions. For example, Rhonda loves and frequently gets tempted to binge-watch a show on wedding dresses (Say YES to the DRESS), because she tell herself things like this: This is really fun. Would i like that dress? Would it look good on me? Maybe my wedding dress wasn't as pretty. I'll only watch for a minute. I need to relax. This is not hurting anyone. My husband won't mind that I'm gone. I can talk about the dresses to some of my friends. I work night and day and deserve to watch. in the live role-play, 'Rhonda was able to defeat these tempting thoughts "huge." If you think this might describe you, or benefit you, or just be fun and educational, here's the coop about the Screen Addiction Group, as well as his next Feeling Great Book Club and his Five Secrets Deep Practice Group. (Jan22-Feb26, $180 for 6 hour-long sessions). Do you get on your phone every time you have a spare second? Do you think social media will make you happier and yet you feel more lonely or stressed? Do you stay up late fighting video game zombies and then turn into a zombie the next day because you're so tired? This 6-week online class will teach you powerful Cognitive Behavioral Therapy techniques (such as Self-Monitoring, Triple Paradox and Devil's Advocate) led by Brandon Vance, MD, all within the accountability and support of a group of peers to Free Yourself from Mindless Technology Use. (two groups: Feb 24 - May 12 and Feb 26 - May14. $168 for 12 80-minute sessions, sliding scale). Join together with people all over the world in this popular online class in a book club format, to read the Cognitive Behavioral Therapy book Feeling Great by David Burns, MD, and learn and practice tools to break through depression and anxiety to live a more joyful and relaxed life. See live expert demos and join smaller breakout groups to practice what you learn in this sliding scale weekly online group. (Jan 15 - Feb 19th and Mar 5 - Apr 9, $180-480 sliding scale, 6 90-minute sessions). David Burns, MD laid out 5 key ingredients that make communication highly successful to get closer to each other, even in conflict situations. Learn to use these 5 Secrets in your own life with expert demos and instruction and 1-1 practice in this 6-week online group. Rhonda and I strongly recommend these groups because active practice is the real key to learning and personal growth The support of others in the group can also lift morale and enhance accountability. If you want to change your life, this is a great option. Dr. Vance is not only a tremendous visionary and teacher, but he also has a huge heart. You'll find that these groups are ridiculously cheep but incredible treasures, and you can also contact him if any group looks appealing but you currently have limited means. Thank you for joining us today! Warmly, Rhonda, Brandon, and David
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430: Was Epictetus Right? Finally--an Answer!
01/06/2025
430: Was Epictetus Right? Finally--an Answer!
Do Negative Thoughts REALLY Cause Depression? An Answer--At Last!--from Research Featuring David Burns, Jeremy Karmel, Diane Spangler and Rhonda Barovsky Today, David and two dear colleagues--Jeremy Karmel, CEO of the Feeling Great Corporation, and Dr. Diane Spangler--share the amazing results of two types of research on the Feeling Great app that focus on two related and vitally important questions: How effective is the Feeling Great app? Research confirms it triggers incredibly fast and dramatic reductions in seven negative feelings: depression, anxiety, guil7, inadequacy, loneliness, hopelessness and anger. The speed and depth of these effects may substantially outstrip human therapists as well as antidepressant medications. How does it work? What is the mechanism of action? People have argued intensely about the chicken vs the egg problem for more than 2,000 years. Do negative thoughts REALLY cause negative feelings? Or do negative feelings cause negative thoughts? Or both? Or neither? The answers are exciting! Warmly,. Rhonda, Jeremy, Diane, and David
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429: Ask David: Daily Mood Logs; Somatic Complaints; Passive Aggression
12/30/2024
429: Ask David: Daily Mood Logs; Somatic Complaints; Passive Aggression
Ask David With Special Guest Expert, Dr. Matthew May Daily Mood Log: Does it have to be done perfectly? Somatic Complaints: How does TEAM Help? Passive Aggression: What distortions cause it? Roger, from Australia, asks: Do daily mood logs still work if you complete them ‘imperfectly’? Roger also asks: Based on your clinical experience, what causes a reduction or complete elimination of in symptoms for people who present with somatic complaints or chronic pain? TOZ asks: Does passive aggressive behavior result from All-or-Nothing Thinking? The answers below were written prior to the show, based on correspondence with those who asked the questions. The live answers on the show will be different in many cases. 1, Roger, from Australia, asks: Do daily mood logs still work if you complete them ‘imperfectly’? 2. Roger also asks: Based on your clinical experience, what causes a reduction or complete elimination of symptoms for people who present with somatic complaints or chronic pain? Dear David, Sure, I would love to have my questions be on an Ask David! It would be okay for you to use my real name and my location as being in Australia for the podcast and show notes. I’ve reworded the questions so that they get across what I was actually trying to ask in my previous email. You might now have a slightly different response based on the new questions. I have to apologise as my wording in my previous email was confusing, even for me. Here’s a shorter version of the first question: “Dear David, I’ve got a question about doing daily mood logs as part of my psychotherapy homework. I tend to start a lot of new daily mood logs where I write my negative emotions and thoughts, as well as do positive reframing, but then get stuck when it comes to doing methods for challenging my negative thoughts, as I get caught up on trying to do the exercise perfectly. I get worried that I won’t see as much benefit from the exercise if I don’t do the steps perfectly or in order. Did you see improvements in patients who filled out their daily mood logs imperfectly? Perhaps they may have skipped steps or maybe they couldn’t crush their negative thoughts completely, but continued to move on to working with new thoughts and seeing if they could crush those.” An even shorter version of the question would be: “Do daily mood logs still work if you complete them ‘imperfectly’?” A shorter version of the question about somatic complaints and pain is: “I’ve also got a question on treating somatic symptoms and chronic pain. Some clinicians have seen people improve by doing journalling or expressive writing about life stressors such as past stressors, current stressors, and self-limiting behaviours or beliefs. Other activities which seem to be useful include writing unsent letters to people who’ve hurt you, or doing behavioural changes for self-limiting beliefs like learning how to designate free time for yourself if you have a tendency to take on too much or feel guilty about spending time relaxing and not doing work. I was wondering what you’ve seen in your clinical experience and what you’ve seen patients do which helps them reduce or eliminate their somatic symptoms and chronic pain?" An even shorter version of that question would be: “Based on your clinical experience, what causes a reduction or complete elimination of in symptoms for people who present with somatic complaints or chronic pain?" Regards, Roger He David’s reply Thanks, these short versions are a big improvement. Here are the quick answers: The critical thing is to come up with one or more positive thoughts that are 100% true, and that reduce your belief in the negative thought. If you send a specific example, it would help. There are several rules about getting workable negative thoughts as well. Perfection is never possible in the universe of daily mood logs, but excellence certainly is. A change in belief in neg thoughts is the goal. In my experience, somatic complaints, such as undiagnosed pain, dizziness, fatigue, and more, are often created or magnified by (or the expression of) negative emotions, as well as hidden emotions / problems. The average reduction of pain, for example, will be 50% if there is a dramatic reduction in negative feelings, or if the patient identifies and tackles some unexpressed problem, like anger, or unexpressed grief, or loneliness when the kids go off to college, and so forth. An average of 50% means that some people will experience a complete elimination of the negative symptoms, like pain. Some will experience no improvement. And some will experience some improvement. With regard to how or why this works, I don’t really know, and don’t think that anyone knows. But it seems like negative feelings, like depression, anxiety, anger and so forth have a magnifying effect on negative feelings. On the podcast, I can give a personal example of when I was in the Stanford emergency room, screaming in pain from a broken jaw. I can also give an example of what happens to my low back pain when I am in an especially good mood and I am out jogging. Best, David 3. TOZ asks: Does passive aggressive behavior result from All-or-Nothing Thinking? Hi David, I thought my therapist will tell me once he gets to know me that I'm passive aggressive and therefore I do things particularly anxiety disease as all or nothing black or white. I was wondering for you not to answer my case but in general does passive aggressive attitudes or approaches result from all or nothing thinking? Thanks, Toz David’s reply. Thanks, Toz. Great question! To find out, you would have to do what I have recommended for nearly 50 years. Write down your negative thought on a piece of paper (can you do that?) and identify the distortions in it, using my lit of ten cognitive distortions. Let me know if you’ve done this. Most people refuse to do it! Warmly, david Toz replies: So I did your exercise. My thoughts were: I'm crashing. Help I'm scared. I'm going to die. Help me laud. Help me laud. Distortions: predicting the future. Magnification How is that? I looked up. Saw that was fine. Felt better. Then I checked my pulse. Not too fast so okay. Toz. David’s reply to Toz, That, Toz, is totally cool! Way to go! Could also add: Emotional Reasoning. You identified two super important distortions that are always present in fear, paranoia and anxiety. Cool, cool, cool! David's comment: This is why I ask for specific examples when people ask general questions. As you can see, Toz asked about passive aggression, but his specific example turned out to be all about something entirely different: anxiety and panic. He did a great job of testing his negative thoughts with the Experimental Technique. Warmly, Rhonda, Matt, and David
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428: Tahn Wanders . . . and Wonders
12/23/2024
428: Tahn Wanders . . . and Wonders
Tahn Wanders . . . and Wonders A Young Monk's Search for Peace and Happiness Today we are honored by a second visit from Tahn Pamutto, who first appeared as a podcast guest on November 4, 2024, where he described his transition from a soldier in Iraq to an ordained Buddhist monk. He also gave us a taste of Buddhist teachings, and compared them to what we to in TEAM-CBT. There were certainly a number of areas of overlap. For example, as a psychiatrist, my goal is often to help bring patients as rapidly as possible from a state of unhappiness and depression to a state of joy and enlightenment, using a number of specific psychological techniques we call TEAM-CBT. But part of this is spiritual in nature as well. Tahn’s role as an ordained Buddhist monk is similar, in part. His goal is help people who ask for guidance how to discover the cause of unhappiness, and the path to happiness, using a number of spiritual exercises, including meditation. But part of these exercises are psychological as well. Today, Tahn began by contrasting a spiritual vs a materialistic view of life, and emphasized that the materialist view cannot solve the problem of unhappiness or provide us with happiness. This is, in part, because material things are impermanent, and will all ultimately disappear. Negative feelings, like unhappiness, actually result from our thoughts--how we view the world. The world is the world, and you can accept that, or you can protest and shout angrily that things “should” be different or “shouldn’t” be the way they are, but your feelings will always result from the way you think about the world. He said that when he was growing up, all his needs were taken care of, and happiness was fleeting, so he embarked on a search for answers. Who was I, and why was I struggling with so much unhappiness? He said, “To explore and really find out who I was, I’d have to depart from my comfort. When I joined the army, it sounded great. It was all about patriotism, loyalty, honor, service, and all kinds of positive values. . . But then at some point, they say that’s time to invade this or that country, and you have to try to make that work, since you can’t challenge the mission. The Iraq war was going on, and I spend 13 months there. But if your mission is wrong, you will keep suffering, no matter how hard you try. Did the people in Iraq really want us there? Are we really doing anything that’s positive or good? And what is it that I really want to do with my life? One thing we have to recognize is two things that cannot be denied: our mortality and the existence of unhappiness. As I began to accept these two inevitable facts, I also realized that there is no quick solution, and that the reality is that our unhappiness may not end on its own. We may go to sleep, and escape for a while, but when we wake up, we will still be unhappy. We could even imagine being reincarnated and having a different body, a different religion, or living in a different time, but our suffering still won’t change. I may be a different person, but I will still be unhappy. I asked myself if and how I could train myself to accept what life brings me. . . and wondered whether is would be possible to pursue unending happiness? And if so, how would I go about it? What I do? When I was in Iraq, I applied for conscientious objector status and eventually got out on an early retirement. Then, I began looking for an experienced, humble teacher who could share their knowledge with me. I bought a backpack and some hiking shoes, and began to search so I could learn what I needed to learn. I didn’t have much knowledge of Buddhism at all at that time. I left my mother’s house in New Jersey and started walking. I walked 20 miles, but realized I was going in the wrong direction, and had to walk 20 miles back and start over, walking in the opposite direction. The first night of my journey, I got exhausted and slept on a park bench. In the middle of the night, I thought I heard loud explosions, and woke up feeling terrified, but it was just acorns falling down from the oak tree I was sleeping under. In the Army I had learned the wrong way, and that’s why I decided to search, but any old street in New Jersey probably didn’t have what I was looking for. I decided to search for the answer in Asia instead, and wandered in India, Thailand, Korea, Japan, and Taiwan. I went into Temples and Mosques. I had the romantic notion that some wise bearded man would come out of nowhere and tap on my shoulder and say, “We’ve been waiting for you, Tahn! You have finally arrived!” But it doesn’t work like that. In Thailand, there is a monastic level to society, as well as a commercial level. Thailand and Burma are certainly not perfect as countries, but have a higher than average level of happiness because the people are generous and help each other. If I wanted, I could just go and stay at a Temple. Much of their society is based on the joy of giving and receiving. People in the monastic level are living primarily on donations. I decided I wanted to become a monk. That was what I wanted to do. I learned about the importance of the “Contemplation of Death.” Most people want to avoid thinking about death. But death and the loss of all materialistic things is inevitable. You cannot avoid it, and might want to base your daily decisions on this fact. For example, you could ask yourself, “Suppose I knew that I would die this evening. What would I do today? Would I continue shopping for a couch? Or feuding with my neighbor?” If you did this contemplation every day, you might discover that you’re doing what you think you should do, rather than what you want to do. You may be pursuing materialistic goals that inevitably cause unhappiness. Let’s say you live in a small cabin, and notice some leaves on the floor. You might decide to sweep the leaves out of the cabin. Then, if you die, they will find your body on a clean floor. That would make it easy for someone else to move into the cabin. This path (the daily Contemplation of Death), he explained, is one way to get to the destination of unconditional happiness. Rhonda asked Tahn why he decided to become a teacher. He explained that he did not make that decision, but as he wandered and practiced the monastic life, people would stop and ask him questions about truth and enlightenment and the meaning of life, and so forth. Over time, he realized that because of his travels and searches, he began to gain more and more experience, and sometimes had something to offer individuals who were earlier in their journeys, and also looking for guidance. He said that the reality of being a monk is not glamourous. Our needs are really pretty minimal. We need food, shelter, clothing, and medicine if we are sick. But beyond that, the monk gets little. If you need clothes, you may have access to a pile or rags that you can sew together to make a piece of clothing, or you may have to eat the leftovers when others have finished eating. You have to learn to live on what extras might be given to you. He explained that I’ve actually been surprised by how much love and support there is in the world. I’ve been well-taken-care-of. My main interest has been to learn about the mind. Of course, we have our basic needs to survive, but what are we doing to develop spiritually? He mentioned that the monastic order is not structured, it is not a hierarchy, and you can come and go anytime you want. The Buddha accepted the strong desire of his followers to evolve into a church, as a structure to preserve the teachings, but this was a compromise. The Buddha was simply sharing something that had already existed before he was born, something that anyone can discover, with or without a structure or system. At some point, you may say, “I quit,” and start to do what you want to do, know that your time to be alive is limited. Here are some of the questions people ask Tahn in his travels. How can I deal with my intense anger? Tahn said, "When people “find me” when I am traveling, or wandering, they often think that “this encounter was meant to happen.” He said that Buddhists do not proselytize, and there is no concept of “conversion.” He teaches people that “You are going to have to die. You’re are going to have to give it all up one day.” He asks, “What are you seeking? What is ailing you?” He tells us that the Buddha taught us the cause of all unhappiness, and how to find happiness. Anyone can find what the Buddha discovered. The goal is the cessation of unhappiness. Is never-ending happiness possible? Tahn said: We certainly know that clear days, with no clouds, are possible. The clouds are not a part of the sky, they are just droplets of moisture, and the sky is not affected by the clouds. Clouds and unhappiness are very evitable. Tahn finished by saying, “Our unhappiness is independent from our happiness.” That’s my best translation of the interview, and I’m sure I missed a lot, and misinterpreted parts as well. I do know that it was a great pleasure and honor to spend 90 minutes with Tahn. I hope you learned something and found Tahn’s story interesting. And here’s one tip that’s helped me, and it might help you on your own journey. Sometimes, when I hear a Buddhist story or teaching, it sounds nonsensical at first. I can’t “get it.” Then, a few days later, the meaning often comes, or at least A meaning, and I feel happy to have learned something kind of cool! Hope you have that experience, and apologize for any incoherence you find in the show notes, today! Warmly, Tahn, Rhonda, and David
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427: Live work with Joshua--The Secret of Self-Esteem
12/16/2024
427: Live work with Joshua--The Secret of Self-Esteem
Live work with Joshua-- The Secret of Self-Esteem I was recently a guest on the with host Joshua Gibson (link). At the end of the interview, he asked if I could give an example of some of the techniques in TEAM-CBT, so I decided to jump right into a live demonstration, in real time, which we are publishing on today’s podcast. I am very grateful to Joshua and hope you enjoy the session as much as we did! The session covers a number of topics that just about everyone can relate to, including a couple extremely common Self-Defeating Beliefs: The Achievement Addiction The Love Addiction The Inadequacy Schema (“I’m not good enough.”) It also covers some familiar territory, including the question, “Am I good enough?” It also provides an answer to the questions: “What is the secret of self-esteem,” and “what is the secret of sex appeal?” To kick things off, Joshua shares an upsetting event along with some of his negative thoughts and feelings. The upsetting event was feeling attracted to a young woman who waited on him in a restaurant, and then going to his car and wishing he’d asked for her personal information for a date. Then he courageously went back and did just that, but got shot down. Paired with this experience, his overwhelming thoughts and how strongly he believes each one are: I won’t be successful. 85% I won’t get to live the life I want to live. 70% I won’t find love. 90% I’m not attractive. 100% This is a list of Joshua’s negative feelings, and how strong each one was at the start of the session: Feeling % Now % Goal % End Anxious 95% Sad 90% Guilty 85% Inadequate 90% Lonely 90% Embarrassed 90% Hopeless 85% Frustrated 70% Angry (with self) 75% Two things stand out when you examine this list. First, Joshua is an attractive, friendly, and personable young man hosting a popular podcast. If we didn’t have these estimates of his feelings, you would have NO WAY of knowing how he felt inside. These feelings are all very severe. So many people we greet in our daily lives are similar—looking terrific on the outside, but dying of loneliness and unhappiness within. Second, he is experiencing nine different types of similarly elevated negative feelings, and not just one negative feeling. This confirms statistical modeling I’ve done with data from the Feeling Great App. There appears to be an unknown “Common Cause” in the human psyche that activates numerous feelings simultaneously. This is like the “dark matter” of the human psyche. We can prove its existence, but don’t yet know precisely what it is! However, our goal today will be to see if we can help Joshua change the way he’s feeling, regardless of what’s causing his pain. Positive Reframing Tool Feeling Positives Frustration It has motivated me to work hard It shows I have not given up Anxiety Keeps me from putting myself at risk It has inspired me to face my fears and grow Sadness Shows how much I care about others Helps me understand others who are suffering, like my mom Shows I have high standards and high expectations Guilt Shows that I want to live up to my expectations Shows that I have a strong moral compass Inadequacy Shows I’m honest about my flaws and eager to improve Show I’m humble Makes me approachable Loneliness Has helped my develop independence and autonomy Has motivated me to reach out to close community and to create my own Embarrassment Makes me behave in socially desirable ways Hopelessness This serves as a driving force Shows that I’m a critical and realistic thinker Protects me from disappointment Anger (at self) Shows that I have high expectations for myself and hold myself to a nigh standard You can see Joshua’s goals for each negative feeling after we used the Magic Dial. The whole idea was to lower his negative feelings, not all the way to zero, since that would also wipe out all these positives, but lower them enough so that he would suffer less and still preserve all the many positives we listed, and more. Feelings Table with Goal column filled in Feeling % Now % Goal % End Anxious 95% 20% Sad 90% 10-15% Guilty 85-90% 15% Inadequate 90% 10% Lonely 90% 20% Embarrassed 90% 10-15% Hopeless 85% 20% Frustrated 70% 20% Angry (with self) 75% 5% As you can see, he decided to lower all of his negative feelings if possible. Now, we’re ready for the M = Methods of TEAM-CBT. Joshua said he wanted to work on, “I’m not attractive” first. I asked Joshua how and why he came to this conclusion, since he is clearly a large and attractive guy. He confessed he had severe acne when he was an adolescent, and now has scarring that makes him look “disfigured”. Although he probably does have some scars, I asked Joshua if he thought this thought might contain some cognitive distortions. He immediately mentioned All-or-Nothing Thinking (AON). I asked Joshua to “Explain this Distortion.” Specifically, I wanted him to imagine that I was a fourth grade student, and to explain to me in simple terms WHY this thought is an example of AON, why the AON in this case is unrealistic and misleading, and why it is also unfair. He did a great job, and this reduced his belief in the thought to 50%. As an exercise, can you think of some additional distortions in this thought? Briefly stop this recording so you can write them down on a piece of paper, and then you can look at the answers at the end of the show notes. “Explain the Distortions” was an excellent first step, but it was not enough, so we went on to the Paradoxical Double Standard Technique. I played the role of a long lost identical twin or best friend who was just like Joshua. I explained that I thought I was not attractive, and asked him what he thought. He did a tremendous job, and argued that this was not really valid, and I asked if he was being honest or just trying to cheer me up. He said he was being completely honest. Then we switched into high gear, using a much more aggressive technique, the Externalization of Voices, including Self-Defense, the Acceptance Paradox, and the Counter-Attack Technique, with perhaps a couple additional techniques thrown in. He got some strong momentum and blew all four negative thoughts out of the water. We were out of time, but did take the time to rate how he felt at the end, which you can see below. Feelings Table at the End of Session Feeling % Now % Goal % End Anxious 95% 20% 0% Sad 90% 10-15% 0% Guilty 85-90% 15% 0% Inadequate 90% 10% 0% Lonely 90% 20% 0% Embarrassed 90% 10-15% 0% Hopeless 85% 20% 0% Frustrated 70% 20% 0% Angry (with self) 75% 5% 0% Answer to the quiz question above: The thought, “I’m not attractive contained many distortions in addition to AON, including: OG = Overgeneralization MF = Mental Filtering DP = Discounting the Positive MR = Mind-Reading Mag/Min = Magnification and Minimization ER = Emotional Reasoning LAB = Labeling SH = Hidden Should Statement SB = Self-Blame I was extremely grateful and honored to be a guest on Joshua’s wonderful podcast, Philosophical Weightlifting, and invited him to join our Tuesday psychotherapy training class at Stanford because of his work in coaching. If you are a mental health professional, including a therapist or coach, contact me and let me know! The classes are two hours weekly and free of charge, although some course materials are required. Thank you so much, Joshua, for sharing your “inner self” with me and all of your and our podcast fans! And thank you, all of you, for listening or watching today! Rhonda, Joshua and David The following is an awesome email I received from Jason Meno right after he listened to the Joshua session. Hey there! I just finished listening to the last hour segment of David's "Philosophical Weightlifting" podcast episode with Joshua Gibson (it starts at about ). It was fun to see a 45-minute TEAM session in action. I thought the Externalization of Voices (EoV) that was done here that seemed to work really well, really fast. It also highlighted a lot of complex dynamics that I see David use a lot. Here's my analysis of what went down and what I think we can learn from it: Joshua's attack: Joshua's negative thought was "I'm not attractive", but when it came time for him to attack, he said, "You know Joshua, you are disfigured and because of that you're unlovable and that's an unavoidable thing you're going to have to deal with." This attack is a lot more powerful than just the thought "You're not attractive." It digs into hurtful labels, hopelessness, and frustration. When you are in the position of roleplaying as the negative voice, there's often new and subtle dimensions that come out of it. Right now we are making it easy for the user to attack the AI by just printing out their negative thoughts, but I think letting the attack be more dynamic would be a lot better. David uses Be Specific: "Can you tell me in what way I'm disfigured?" I REALLY like Be Specific. It sets things up very well. I'd love to do this as part of the EoV formula. Joshua answers: "Yes, so you had acne growing up and now you have scars as a result and that makes you look different from everyone else." David uses Paradoxical Acceptance / Humorous Magnification: "Well, thank you, wise guru. I'm enlightened now and see that I'm some kind of ugly monster who's going to scare all the women in the United States. But what you're saying is a lot of horseshit, and you know it." David's sarcastic tone belittles the negative voice's criticism, which also lightens up the absurd magnification that follows. He then quickly rejects the absurd and flows into healthy acceptance following this. David uses Straightforward Acceptance: "But it's true I'm not perfect, and I did have acne, and I do have scars, and there there's plenty of Hollywood movie stars who have some kind of fantastic looks." There's something very powerful about going from the absurd magnification into this healthy acceptance. It's kind of like framing the horrifying absurd with the moderately painful truth makes the truth a lot easier to accept. David uses Defense: "I have a lot about me that's attractive that I can be proud of, including my love, my humility. I've built a tremendous body that 99% of men would be the envy of, and 100% of women would love to touch and fondle." The self-compassion and focusing on specific strengths and pride in accomplishments seems to a very effective defense. There's also a little magnification and humor going on here too that works well. This is a lot stronger than a lot of defenses I see where people just say the thought is being distorted or unfair. David sets up the Counter-Attack Technique: "But there is one thing that's very, very unattractive about me that you didn't mention." Joshua asks: "What's that?" David uses the CAT: "That's that effing crappy voice in my head belittling me and constantly putting me down. And when I'm not listening to you, I'm feeling pretty damn happy. So, to quote the Buddha and Jesus alike, shut the f up." One of the things that seems to make the CAT really effective is when you can take the negative voice's criticism and throw it right back at the negative voice itself. In this case, the negative voice is the real unattractive quality. Awesome work David, and I'd love try out this EoV framework in the app. Best, Jason Roughly one week after the session with Joshua, Rhonda and David interviewed him for his reflections on the session and an update on how he's doing now. He said: I've reflected a lot on this, and what has changed for me. There were many things that impacted me, but positive reframing was a game-changer. For example, if I get anxious, I welcome the feeling, and tell myself, "This anxiety will help me with this project." I was getting a tattoo, and it hurt, so I told myself, "I'm glad it hurts. This pain protects my body." And, of course, people with leprosy lose the ability to feel pain, and the consequences are disastrous and tragic. He continued, I have become more accepting, and talk openly about my appearance. I've had the courage to face that fear. The theme of my life has been, "I'm not good enough." But now I remind myself that I've done all kinds of cool stuff. For example, I coached several people into the top five in the United States in power lifting. I'm way less self-critical now. I visited, and loved, the Tuesday group at Stanford. I didn't judge myself but just jumped in and did what I could do! We concluded the session with some Relapse Prevention Training, using Externalization of Voices to challenging his previous negative thoughts, including the thoughts he will have when he relapses. such as I'm not good enough. I'm a hopeless case. The therapy didn't work on me because I'm different. I'm a hopeless case. We used Externalization of Voices with role-reversals, and Joshua won "huge!" His final response was, "There's pain and joy in life. I'll feel joy and love!" Thank you for listening today. We hope you enjoy the intensely personal work with Joshua. Let us know what you think, and if it touched you if you've ever felt like you weren't "good enough!" Warmly, Joshua, Rhonda, and David
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426: The Story of My Life, Part 1, David is interviewed by Joshua Gibson, Host of the Psychological Weightlifting Podcas
12/09/2024
426: The Story of My Life, Part 1, David is interviewed by Joshua Gibson, Host of the Psychological Weightlifting Podcas
The Story of My Life, Part 1 David is interviewed by Joshua Gibson, Host of the Psychological Weightlifting Podcast Hi! Today will be a bit different. I appeared as a guest on a cool podcast called Psychological Weightlifting, hosted by Joshua Gibson. I kind of described the trajectory of my career, starting with my post-doctoral depression research at the University of Pennsylvania School of Medicine, with an intermediate stop at the former Presbyterian University of Pennsylvania Medical Center, where I had a run-in with a violent individual named Bennie, and culminating in my work refining TEAM-CBT in my years on the adjunct faculty at the Stanford Medical School. Joshua and I really hit it off, and at the end of the podcast, he asked me if I could briefly illustrate some of the techniques I’ve developed in TEAM-CBT. I asked if he had an negative thoughts that we might work with, and boy, was I in for a big surprise. In fact, you’ll hear all about it next week! Thanks for listening today! Joshua, Rhonda, and David
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425: Ask David: Dreading the Day; Solving Mother-Daughter Problems; Romance; and More!
12/02/2024
425: Ask David: Dreading the Day; Solving Mother-Daughter Problems; Romance; and More!
Waking Up Dreading the Day Mother-Daughter Problems Patients Who Are Afraid of Their Feelings Romantic Problems, and More Questions for today: Rose asks: I wake up dreading the day. What can I do?! Maggie integrates TEAM-CBT with prayer and asks for help with mother / daughter issues. Simon asks: “How can we deal with patients who are afrad of their feelings?” Amanda asks: “Help! I have a romantic relationship conflict! What should I do?” Aaron asks: Why are feelings of depression and anxiety correlated? In other words, why do they frequently go hand in hand? The following questions and answers were written prior to the live podcast. Make sure you listen to the podcast to get the full answers, including role-play demonstrations, and so forth. Rose asks: I wake up dreading the day. What can I do?! Hi David, I've been reading your book, "Feeling Good," for help with my anxiety ever since my 100-year-old mom moved in with me. Your techniques are helping, but every morning I wake up anxious, dreading starting my day. Is there a technique to help with this? I really am working to change my thoughts from negative to more positive thanks to you. I look forward to hearing from you. Rose David’s reply In my book, Feeling Good, I urge people to write down your negative thoughts, and emphasize that it won’t work very well unless you do this. Many people refuse. How about you? What were the thoughts you wrote down when you woke up feeling upset and dreading your day. Could use as an Ask David on a podcast if you like. Best, david Rose wrote: Thanks for your speedy reply. I'm new at this and just started reading the book yesterday, but I will start writing down my thoughts. Thanks for your help. Maggie integrates TEAM-CBT with prayer and asks for help with mother / daughter issues. Dear Dr. Burns, I want to begin by expressing my deep gratitude for your work, which has had a profound impact on my life. Your book Feeling Good: The Workbook helped me overcome a very dark period of depression after being diagnosed with infertility. It truly transformed my mental health, and I continue to rely on your techniques—especially your list of cognitive distortions, which I use often to stay grounded. Your podcast has also been a great resource for me, and I’ve noticed recent episodes touching on the self and spirituality, which caught my attention in a special way. I felt compelled to share something personal with you. While your methods gave me the tools to change my thinking, I also found solace and strength through my faith. Prayer was an essential part of my healing process, and for me, it provided something beyond my own power. In moments when I felt I couldn’t make it through on my own, the belief that there is a God I can turn to brought me peace and comfort. Both your work and my faith were crucial in my journey. Your research and teachings helped me take control of my thoughts, but my relationship with God gave me hope when I needed it most. I believe that the combination of these two—your scientifically backed methods and the power of prayer—made a tremendous difference in my recovery. I’m also excited about your app, but as someone living in Honduras, I was unable to download it. I would love to know if there are plans to make it available outside the U.S. in the near future, as it would be an incredible resource for me and others in similar situations. Lastly, can I make a suggestion for a podcast subject? Mother daughter issues. I really need help in this area of my life. Thank you for your dedication to helping others. I hope that sharing my experience offers some insight into how both your studies and faith in something greater can bring peace and healing. With gratitude, Maggie David’s reply Thanks, and we’d love to read part of your beautiful note, with or without your correct first name, on a podcast. If you can give me a more specific example of the mother daughter issue you want help with, it would make it much easier to respond in a sensible way! Warmly, david Maggie responded Dear Dr. Burns, Thank you so much for your thoughtful response and for asking me to clarify my suggestion regarding mother-daughter issues. I deeply love my mother, and I know she means well, but our relationship has become increasingly challenging as she gets older. One of the major difficulties I face is her tendency to offer passive-aggressive criticism, which leaves me feeling undermined. I’ve always known her to be this way—she was never very affectionate, and I’ve gotten used to that. However, lately, it feels like it’s getting worse. She’s hard of hearing, even with a hearing aid, and often adopts a “my way or the highway” attitude, which makes conversations with her exhausting. Simple moments where I hope to share something exciting are often met with dismissive or critical remarks. Here are three examples of the kind of interactions that affect me: I recently purchased tickets for a trip to Australia with friends, and her response was to ridicule my choice, saying that Spain or Italy is a much more beautiful destination. I had just bought the tickets, and all I wanted was for her to share in my excitement. I sent her a picture of a new piece of art I was excited about, and her immediate reaction was, “I liked the other one better. That one doesn’t match the color of the walls.” As I was about to leave for a party with my husband, she commented, “Don’t you think you’re wearing too much makeup?” These kinds of remarks constantly make me feel inadequate, and it’s emotionally draining. As a result, I’ve found myself avoiding calling or visiting her. However, this leads to feelings of guilt, especially because I love my father very much, I enjoy his peaceful company and wise conversation and advice, and not visiting them also affects my relationship with him. What I struggle with most is that I know I might regret not spending enough time with her as she gets older, even though she isn’t sick or dying. I just don’t know how to manage the criticism without feeling constantly undermined, and I’d appreciate any advice you might offer on how to navigate this dynamic while preserving my sense of self-worth. Thank you again for your time and for the incredible impact your work has had on my life. With gratitude, Maggie David’s reply I notice you’re pointing the finger of blame at her. If you want to shift things, it can be helpful to examine your role. I’m attaching a copy of the Relationship Journal. Please do three of these, one for each example below. You already have half of Step 1—what, exactly, did she say. To complete Step 1, circle all the feelings you think she may have been feeling. Then complete Steps 2 and 3, which should be fairly easy. Then I can take a look, and we’ll see what we can figure out, if you’d like. Also, this will not be therapy, but general teaching. LMK if that’s okay. Best, david Here are the three examples she provided, along with how she responded to her mom: Three Maggie examples of interactions with her mother (Ask David podcast) #1 Mom said: Dear, I would never have thought of Australia as a destination. I would much rather fly to Italy or Spain, filled with culture, art, and great food. Sydney would be the LAST place I’d want to visit! I replied: Well, mom, we’ve already been to those places, and we love a great adventure, and we’re really excited by the outdoors. #2 Just as we were about to leave, Mom said: “Don’t you think you’re wearing too much make up?” I replied: I probably am, I didn’t notice (and rushed immediately to my room to remove it.) #3 I share a piece of art I brought home, and Mom said: “I liked the one you had before. It matched the walls much better than this one. Why did you change it? Who is the artist?” I replied: “Well, we have to like it because it’s the only wall in the house where it will fit, so we’re just going to have to live with it.” Simon asks: “How can we deal with patients who are afraid of their feelings?” Dear Dr. David Burns, Hi, my name is Simon and I'm a clinical psychologist from Chile, sorry if my English is kind of broken, it isn't my first language. First of all, I want to tell you how grateful I am for your great work and all the knowledge you give to the general public for free. Of course I also must praise the work of the entire team working at the podcast (which I am the biggest fan from my country). I hope one day I can be a certified team cbt therapist myself in the future, but that would be a different story. I think the world needs more people with such a love for mental health and I hope I can continue to listen to your content for more years to come. Today I wanted to ask you guys some questions related to feelings. I have applied some techniques to myself and my patients and it's really mind blowing noticing how effective they are. Nevertheless, I still have one patient who struggles with accepting or permitting himself to feel his feelings. He is grieving the loss of his father and he is very good convincing me that if he does feel his sadness or anxiety (as I suggested him), he may go crazy and commit suicide. He reports good empathy from me, but I'm afraid that he may be too nice to criticize me. So, I ask for your opinion: How can we deal with patients who are afraid of their feelings? How can we build a solid relationship with our patients regarding this subject so they can finally vent these feelings? Thank you all for all the hard work and have a great day! With Love, Simon David’s answer Hi Simone, Thanks for your kind words, and may want to use your question on an Ask David. LMK if that’s okay. Here’s the quick answer. It sounds like venting feelings is your agenda. Nearly all therapeutic failure comes from well-intentioned therapists who try to “help” or “rescue” the patient. I get the best results working on the things my patients want help with. Rhonda has a free weekly group on Wednesdays at mid-morning, and I have a free weekly training group at Stanford on Tuesday evenings (5 to 7 PM California time.) You’d be welcome to join either. Best, david Amanda asks: “Help! I have a romantic relationship conflict! What should I do?” Hi Dr Burns! Firstly, I would like to thank you for your tremendous work and heart to help people who are suffering from depression & anxiety around the world. I found your book in 2021 through a YouTube video you did with Tom Bilyeu and the rest was history. I went down to our local bookstore to get Feeling Good and I was reading it everywhere I went. It saved my life and cured my anxiety! Every time I hit a roadblock, I will go back to the book and try the techniques. I also love the podcasts as they have been very helpful for me. Shoutout to Rhonda and Dr Matt May too! I currently face an issue and would like to submit it as a question for Ask David series. Please address me as Amanda. I am in a stable and committed relationship (for 8 years) but am facing issues with my boyfriend which causes resentment between us. Meanwhile, a friend pursued me despite knowing that I am in a relationship. He told me during a meetup that he felt attracted to me and asked if I will choose him if I am single. I was attracted to this guy as he is confident, funny and carefree, which are qualities that I desire and find lacking in myself. I like him but I know that he is not a good match for me because of his actions and behaviour. The actions seemed manipulative and reflected some narcissistic tendencies. At the start, he would text me frequently then the messages became short when I declined to meet up on a 1-1 basis with him as I want to protect my own relationship. He would drop me a short message every week, using intermittent reinforcement, to ask me how I am doing and then asked if we could meet up for a meal. Example 1: Guy-"Lunch?" Me-"Ok if it's with the group." Guy-"Ok." End of communication. Example 2: Guy-"How are you recently?" Me- "I am feeling better, thanks for checking in!" Guy- "Thumbs up emoji" End of conversation. If I initiate a meetup to run errands or for a meal, he would accept it readily. In a way, there is only communication and interaction when we meet up and I know this is not a healthy interaction or something that I want. Fast forward, I ignored him and he is in a relationship now but our dynamics remain the same. If I reached out to him for a meal, he would respond and behave in a caring way when we met. He offered to buy food for me when I was sick and find ways to continue to meet up. I feel that this guy is just trying to get me as it gives him an ego boost (and thrill) that I care for him even though I am in a committed relationship. In our last meetup recently, I made sure to record how I felt and noticed that the satisfaction level has gone down to about 60% as compared to previously when I was eager to meet him. I would like to reduce it to 10% or even 0%. I also recorded my satisfaction level when I did things alone or with my boyfriend. I realized that my satisfaction/pleasure level is higher and more consistent when I do things that I set out to do on my own and there are times it is enhanced/lowered when I spend time with my boyfriend. Using the daily mood log, the upsetting event is: I will ignore this friend for a period of time then I will go back to the same communication and meetup with him. Then, I'm stuck in the same dynamic again. My negative thoughts are: I will never be able to get out of this. I am doomed. I have no power or control, he has all the power. People always take advantage of me because I'm weak. I am a loser because I keep going back. I will never be happy again since I cannot overcome this. Things will be as such. This chapter will leave a mark on my life and I will be miserable. I am a horrible person for allowing myself to fall for someone while being in a relationship. I have been re-reading the chapter in Feeling Good on love addiction and spending more time with myself to build a relationship with myself so that I can be happy alone. I am also using the cost benefit analysis to melt my own resistance so that I do not go back but I do not seem to be able to totally defeat the negative thoughts above. I hope to receive some guidance related to this on the podcast if possible. Thank you so much! Love, Amanda David’s Reply Hi Amanda, Thanks so much. There are many paths forward, but one thing that might help would be to use the Decision Making Tool since you seem to be unclear on what you want to do. That might be a good first step, or next step. You can download it from the bottom of the home page of my website, feelinggood.com. I can understand your negative feelings and confusion and self-doubt, anxiety, discouragement, frustration. I’m just speculating. There are many ways to challenge your thoughts, but some good positive reframing might help before trying to challenge them, so you could check out your goals for each negative emotion. Including a recent Daily Mood Log, in case you don’t have one. All the best, david PS What you are doing all makes good sense, developing a relationship with yourself, doing a cba, etc., Kudos! In addition, the “25 things I’m looking for in an ideal mate” tool in Intimate Connections might also be helpful. Aaron asks: Why are feelings of depression and anxiety correlated? In other words, why do they frequently go hand in hand? Hi Dr. Burns, I am rereading When Panic Attacks, this has lead to a question. In the book you mention that one theory about why people have both anxiety and depression is that they "can't distinguish different kinds of emotions." Can you expand on this to help me better understand what this means? My interpretation now has me thinking that people are just saying they are depressed and anxious because they don't understand what each word for the emotions means. Thank you for your help, Aaron W. California---LMSW (Idaho) David’s reply David D. Burns, MD Sure, but that is not my thinking, just a common theory that of course deserves respectful consideration and testing. To me, depression is the feeling that accompanies loss, and anxiety is the feeling that accompanies the perception of imminent threat or danger. Beck put it like this: Anxiety is like clinging by your fingertips at the edge of a cliff, fearing you will fall at any moment. Depression, in contrast, is more like thinking you have already fallen, and you are at the bottom of the cliff, broken and injured beyond repair. Here are a couple other things that might interest you. When people are depressed, they will also report feelings of anxiety nearly 100% of the time. However, when they are anxious, they will only report feelings of depression about half the time. This is because you can have some type of anxiety, like a phobia such as the fear of heights, or elevators, or flying, but not feel depressed about it. And here is one more tidbit. My research on the beta test data from our Feeling Great App indicates that all seven negative feelings we measure are strongly correlated and go up or down together, which was quite unexpected. The statistical models that simulate the data provide strong evidence for an unknown “Common Cause” that activates all negative emotions simultaneously. We are trying to figure out what that Common Cause might be. It is a bit like “Dark Matter.” Scientists have proven it’s existence, but don’t yet know what it is. And this unknown Dark Matter represents 95% of the matter in the universe. The statistical models also provide strong evidence that the Feeling Great App helps people because of its strong causal impact on this unknown “Common Cause.” Would love to include this an Ask David in a podcast. Would it be okay? Warmly, david Aaron replies Hi Dr. Burns, I would be honored if you used my question in your podcast. Please let me know when that podcast is posted! I would love to watch it. In the email you sent, are you saying that one theory is that people just cannot accurately define what they are feeling? David replies again Yes, that is one theory, and I have seen that some people, including therapists, have trouble recognizing the names of feelings that their patients are having, based on what the patient says, and also they sometimes have trouble knowing how they are feeling, using “I Feel” Statements. This is, I think, part of what has been called “Emotional Intelligence.” And, just like any skill or talent, there is a great deal of individual difference in “Emotional Intelligence,” and likely some cultural differences as well. I have heard that up until recently, the Chinese did have a word for “depression,” but when a person was appearing depressed, they were kept indoors out of a sense of shame. Thanks! david
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424: How to Give Negative Feedback In a Loving Way
11/25/2024
424: How to Give Negative Feedback In a Loving Way
How to Give Critical / Negative Feedback In a Loving, Constructive Way AND How to Avoid the Common Traps Today’s podcast features Dr. Jill Levitt, Director of Training at the www.FeelingGoodInstitute.com in Mountain View, California and co-leader of David’s weekly TEAM-CBT training group at Stanford. Rhonda and I are psyched, because every podcast or teaching event with Jill is almost certain to be fabulous. And this podcast is no exception! Rhonda asks members of her Wednesday training group (see below for contact information of you think you might want to join) to take turns teaching the group. One week she was puzzled because almost no one filled in their feedback forms, and when she asked them why, they said that they had some concerns about the teaching but didn’t feel comfortable criticizing the person who taught. Some of the criticisms they share with Rhonda were: It was boring. I didn’t learn anything new. The teacher didn’t explain anything in a way that I could understand. Is this a problem that you have as well? Do you find it hard to criticize others, and keep quiet on the assumption that saying nothing is better than opening your mouth and saying something hurtful? If so, I have some good news and some bad news for you. First, the bad news. Tonight, you’ll discover exactly why and how saying nothing is actually a pretty hostile and mean thing to do. But here’s the GOOD news. You’ll also learn the secrets of how to deliver criticism in a way that’s loving, authentic, and helpful if—and that might be a big IF—that’s something you’re willing to do! A sage—cannot remember who—once said that “When you say nothing, you’re actually shouting quietly. What in the world does THAT mean? And Robert Frost, in his famous poem, Fire and Ice, wrote: Some say the world will end in fire, Some say in ice. From what I’ve tasted of desire I hold with those who favor fire. But if it had to perish twice, I think I know enough of hate To say that for destruction ice Is also great And would suffice. Essentially, Frost is saying that if you’re angry, there are two classic ways of being aggressive; you can be fiery and agitated and attack the other person, verbally or physically, or you can be cold and withdraw, saying nothing, so as to freeze the other person out. These are opposite extremes but are equally destructive. And, for most of us, difficult impulses to resist. But there’s a third alternative, which might be, according to Robert Frost, the “road less traveled by.” You can express your negative feelings, including anger, in a respectful, or even loving way. And that’s the focus of today’s show. My show notes will only give an overview, but the richness of this particular podcast is in the actual dialogue and role-play demonstrations with critical feedback. We began with an overview of some of the key techniques when giving someone negative feedback, including stroking and “I Feel” Statements, but emphasized that your tone, goal, and spirit is the entire key to how you come across, and how the other person responds. Jill told a moving and dramatic story of an interaction with her mother, who has been quite ill, and she’d been having a really hard week. Her mom sent Jill a lengthy text outlining all of her problems and ending with, “you guys don’t really know how I’m hurting,” and the implication was, “you don’t know--or care.” This was understandably hurtful to Jill. Jill’s about the most awesome daughter any mother could have. Jill wanted to clear the air and tell her mom how she’d felt, rather than keeping her negative feedback hidden. Her mom clearly felt lonely, so when Jill saw her in person, she said something along these lines: “I know you’ve been struggling, but I felt hurt and discounted when I read your note. I felt like the things I’ve done didn’t matter, and I felt hurt.” Her mom began to cry and said, “the last thing I want you to feel is that I don’t appreciate you.” This conversation was challenging, but brought them much closer together. The podcast crew discussed the important question of our mixed motivations about sharing our feelings, and our confusion about how to do this in an effective, loving way, if you do decide to open up. Rhonda confided that she’d never had those kinds of open conversations with either of her parents, and that these kinds of difficult conversations can come from a place of love. You can review the . The Five Secrets are all about talking with your EAR: E = Empathy, A = Assertiveness, and R = Respect. However, there’s a lot of intense resistance to using the Five Secrets, so I promised to include my list of Listen (E = Empathy) Share your feelings (A = Assertiveness) Treat the other person with respect (R = Respect) That makes 36 reasons in all! . People want to feel understood, and the best way to make that happen is by giving what you hope to receive. And you can learn how to listen more skillfully If you read my book, Feeling Good Together, and do the written exercises while reading. You’ll learn a ton that can change your life and greatly enhance your relationships with the people you love. Thanks for listening today!! Jill, Rhonda, and David
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423: The Feared Fantasy Festival
11/18/2024
423: The Feared Fantasy Festival
The Feared Fantasy Festival! Featuring Jill Levitt, PhD Rhonda asked about the differences between the four Feared Fantasy Techniques and what each one is used for. So we're dedicating today's podcast to answering that question and bringing them all to life. We are honored to be joined by our beloved and brilliant Dr. Jill Levitt, the Director of Clinician Training at the Feeling Good Institute in Mountain View, California. Below I have listed the four Feared Fantasy Techniques. As you can see, each one targets a different Self-Defeating Belief. Approval Addiction: I need everyone's approval to feel happy and worthwhile. Perceived Perfectionism: I must impress others to be love and respected. People will not love or accept me if they see my flaws and shortcomings. Achievement Addiction: My capacity for happiness and my worthwhileness as a human being depend on my achievements, intelligence, success, and productivity. Love Addiction: I need to be loved to feel happy and worthwhile. Submissiveness: I must make others happy, even at the expense of my own needs and feelings. Here are the Feared Fantasy Techniques used for each SDB: Approval Addiction / Perceived Perfectionism: “I judge you.” Achievement Addiction: “High School Reunion.” Love Addiction: Rejection Feared Fantasy Submissiveness: No Practice During the live podcast, we did a deep dive on each of the four Feared Fantasy techniques, and emphasized that the goal is actually enlightenment, and it's based on the teachings Tibetan Book of the Dead that when you finally challenge and confront the monster you've feared and run away from in all of your previous reincarnations, you will discover the the monster has no teeth, and that your fears throughout all of those reincarnations were based on a cosmic joke. This can create something called "laughing enlightenment," so you no longer have to go through the life death cycle, but can go instead to Nirvana--or something along those lines! You really must listen to the podcast to "get" the impact of these Feared Fantasy role plays, and role-reversals, to see how simple, easy, and obvious self-acceptance, and enlightenment really are, and you will see and hear how we fight to protect and defend ourselves from attack, and end up feeling trapped yet again in our needs to be "special" or "worthwhile." David pointed out that when you let go of the idea that you have a "self," your suffering can disappear because you will no longer have to wonder whether your "self" is good enough, or worthwhile enough. Jill complemented this line of thinking by pointing out that the technique, Be Specific, is one important key in most of these techniques. We can be flawed in all kinds of specifics, but that will never hurt unless you generalize to your "self." No self, no problem, as some mystics have said. And that is SO TRUE! David also discussed throwing away the idea that you are worthwhile, or that you need to be more worthwhile, and described how he and his wife saved a mouse that had somehow gotten into their house, but the poor thing was terrified and heroically tried to survive, hiding out in their kitchen. Instead of trying to kill it, they fed it nuts and grapes. Eventually, they caught it in a safe trap, and set it free, and left a last meal for it outside, which it found and happily ate. It was a deep dive on Feared Fantasy and lots of spiritual and philosophical topics, and we hope you enjoyed it! Although we did not cover this topic in the podcast, there are quite a number of additional role play techniques in TEAM-CBT, too, as you know, including: to help with Self-Critical Thoughts: Paradoxical and Straightforward Double Standard Externalization of Voices to help with Uncovering Techniques, like the Individual Downward Arrow Man from Mars To help with Tempting Thoughts Devil’s Advocate Technique Tic-Tok Technique to help with Resistance Externalization of Resistance How Many Minutes? to help with the Five Secrets / Relationship Conflict Intimacy Exercise One Minute-Drill Perhaps you can think of more, too! The generous use of role-playing techniques is one of the unique features of TEAM, but for whatever reason it seems like few therapists use them. This is perhaps unfortunate because they tend to be more potent, emotional, and fast acting than many if not most other techniques. Warmly, david
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422: Ask David: Getting off Benzos; Music and Emotions; Negative Thoughts about the World; and more
11/11/2024
422: Ask David: Getting off Benzos; Music and Emotions; Negative Thoughts about the World; and more
Ask David: Getting Off Benzos How Does Music Stir Our Emotions? Combatting Negative Thoughts about the World Treating Schizophrenia with TEAM The Four Feared Fantasy Techniques and more! Questions for today: Mamunur asks: What’s the best way to withdraw from benzodiazepines? Gray asks: How does music evoke such powerful emotional reactions? Josh thanks David for techniques that have helped in his personal and professional life. Harold asks: How do you respond to negative thoughts about the world, as opposed to self-criticisms? For example, “The world is filled with so little joy and so much suffering.” Moritz asks: How do you help people with bipolar, schizophrenia, etc.? John expresses gratitude for our answer to his question on Positive Reframing, which triggered an “ah ha moment.” Rhonda asks: What are the four Feared Fantasy Techniques? The answers below were written prior to the podcast. Listen to the podcast for the dialogue among Rhonda, Matt, and David, as much more emerges from the discussions! Mamunur asks: What’s the best way to withdraw from benzodiazepines? Ask David, Bangladesh question Dear Sir, I am writing to you from Bangladesh. Your book Feeling Good is a phenomenal work, and it has greatly helped in promoting the development of a healthy mind through logic and reason. Sir, I have a question regarding benzodiazepine withdrawal, which is often prescribed for mental health disorders. Is there a specific CBT (Cognitive Behavioral Therapy) approach that can help in withdrawing from benzodiazepines? Your guidance on this would be invaluable, as many people have been taking it for years, either knowingly or unknowingly, without being fully aware of its severe withdrawal effects. Thank you, sir, for your kind contributions to humanity. Sincerely, Mamunur Rahman Senior Lecturer David’s reply Dear Mamunur, Thank you for your important question! I am so glad you like my book, Feeling Good, and appreciate your kind comments! As a general rule, slow taper off of benzodiazepines is recommended. This might involve slowly decreasing the dose over a period of several weeks. When I was younger I used to take 0.25 mg of Xanax for sleep, because it was initially promoted as being non-addictive, which was wrong. It is highly addictive. The dose I used was the smallest dose. When I realized that I was “hooked,” I tapered off of it over about a week, and simply put up with the side effects of withdrawal, primarily an increase of anxiety and difficulty sleeping. These disappeared after several weeks. Abrupt withdrawal from high doses of any benzodiazepine can trigger seizures, as I’m sure you know. That is the biggest danger, perhaps. I do recall a published study from years ago conducted at Harvard, I believe at McClean Hospital. The divided two groups of people hooked on Xanax into two groups. Both groups were switched to Klonopin which has a longer “half-life” in the blood and is supposedly a bit easier to withdraw from than Xanax, which goes out of the blood rapidly, causing more sudden and intense withdrawal effects. After this initial phase, both groups continued with slowly tapering off the Klonopin under the guidance of medical experts. However, one of the groups also attended weekly cognitive therapy groups, learning about how to combat the distorted thoughts that trigger negative feelings like anxiety and depression. My memory of the study is that the group receiving cognitive therapy plus drug management did much better. As I recall, 80% of them were able to withdraw successfully. However, the group receiving drug management alone did poorly, with only about 20% achieving withdrawal. My memory of the details may be somewhat faulty, but the main conclusion was clear that the support of the group cognitive therapy greatly enhanced the success of withdrawal from benzodiazepines. I decided early in my career not to prescribe benzodiazepines like Ativan, Valium, Librium, Xanax, and Klonopin for depression or anxiety, because the drug-free methods I and others have developed are very powerful, and the use of benzos can actually make the outcomes worse. Years back, a research colleague from Canada, Henny Westra, PhD, reviewed the world literature on treatment of anxiety with CBT plus benzos and concluded that the benzos did not enhance outcomes. Here is the link: . I hope this information is useful and I will include this in a future Feeling Good Podcast. Gray asks: How does music evoke such powerful emotional reactions? Subject: Re: Podcast question: love songs Hi David, That's a really tough question. Music has a unique way of cutting straight to emotions for me, and it makes it especially hard to identify the thoughts behind them. My best way of explaining is with these two thoughts, which have to be viewed as a pair to get that emotional reaction: My life would be perfect if I had that I'm so far away from that These thoughts don't resonate quite right for me, but it's something like that, going from imagining bliss to crashing to hopelessness within the space of a moment. Thank you so much for your response. Gray David’s reply You’re right. Music can be so beautiful, especially of course, the songs we love, that it is magical and emotional to listen to! It seems more like a sensory experience, than something mediated by thoughts, but we certainly have perceptions of beauty, etc. Similar with some incredibly delicious food. Creates incredible delight and satisfaction, and no words are necessary other than “delicious!” Sorry I can’t give you a better answer to your outstanding question! Best, david Josh thanks David for techniques that have helped in his personal and professional life. Dear Dr. Burns, I am sure you are swamped with substantive emails and fan mail, but I just wanted to express appreciation to you for all I have gained from your publicly available content. I have learned so much that I have applied in my personal life. I have also benefited tremendously in my work with clients. So much of what you say about anxiety, and especially the hidden emotion technique, has allowed clients to have in almost every session an aha moment. I have not yet been able to see a complete removal of symptoms in one session yet, but as a therapist, I too have many skills yet to improve and much work to do. So, in short, thank you so much for making your experience and wisdom available for free, and thank you for doing it in such an engaging manner. Sincerely, Josh Farkas David’s Reply Thanks, Josh. You are welcome to join our weekly virtual free training group I offer as part of my volunteer work for Stanford, if interested. For more complete change within sessions, a double session (two hours) in my experience is vastly more effective. Is it okay to read your kind note on a podcast? Warmly, david Harold asks: How do you respond to negative thoughts about the world, as opposed to self-criticisms? For example, “The world is filled with so little joy and so much suffering.” Dear Dr. Burns, First of all, I would like to thank you for all your work and your outreach. Your books have profoundly influenced my thinking and value system. I really admire how you exemplify both scientific rigor and human warmth. Finally, I want to thank you for promoting the idea of “Rejection Practice! I haven't had a breakthrough yet, but some unexpected, very encouraging experiences. I first came across Feeling Good 12 years ago when I developed moderate depression in the context of living with my ex-partner, who probably had borderline personality disorder. I tried the techniques in Feeling Good and also psychotherapy, but unfortunately without much success. I only started feeling a lot better when I began to rebuild my social life and leisure time activities (ballroom dancing, getting involved with a church, ...). Several months later, I also broke up with my ex-girlfriend. Since then, I've had ongoing mild depression. I recently tried the techniques in Feeling Great but wanted to ask you for your opinion on a couple of negative thoughts I'm particularly stuck with. My issue is that I'm normally not attacking myself, but life in general. I keep on telling myself things like "Life is just one crisis after the other," "Life is for the lucky ones," "Really good things just don't want to happen," "Life is so much suffering and so little joy," and the depression itself makes these statements all the more convincing. (Triggering events can be rainy holidays, romantic rejections, grant interview rejections, etc.) I think it could be helpful if in a podcast you could give more examples on resolving negative thoughts attacking life / the world rather than oneself. I also have many more questions for podcasts if you are interested. Thank you for reading this, and thank you so much again for all your work! With very best wishes, Harold David’s Reply Happy to address this on an Ask David, and it would help if you could let me know what negative feelings you have, and how strong they are. I will be answer in a general way, and not engaging you in therapy, which cannot be done in this context. Is that okay? I’m attaching a Daily Mood Log to help organize your thoughts and feelings. Send it back if you can with the Event, Negative Feelings and % Now columns filled out (0-100), and Negative thoughts and belief in each (0-100). You can also fill in the distortion column using abbreviations, like AON for All-or-Nothing, SH for Should Statement or Hidden Should, MF for Mental filtering, DP for Discounting the Positives, and so forth. Thanks! If you were in a session with me, or if we were just friends talking, I would reply to your complaints with the Disarming Technique, Thought and Feeling Empathy, “I Feel” Statements, Stroking, and Inquiry, like this: Harold: “Life is so much suffering and so little joy." David: “I’m sad to hear you say that, but you’re right. There’s an enormous amount of suffering in the world, like the horrible wars in Ukraine and in the Mid-East. (I feel; Disarming Technique) It makes sense that you’d be upset, and have all kinds of feelings, even anger since there’s so much cruelty, too. (Feeling Empathy) And even people who appear positive and joyful often have inner sadness and loneliness that they are hiding. (Disarming Technique) Your comment tells me a great deal about your core values on honesty and compassion for others. (Stroking) Can you tell me more about the suffering that you’ve seen that has saddened you the most, and how you feel inside? (Inquiry) But I’m mainly interested in you right now. Can you tell me more about YOUR suffering, and especially if there’s some problem you might want some help with? (Inquiry; Changing the Focus) I would continue this strategy until you gave me an A on Empathy, and then I would go on to the A of TEAM (Assessing Resistance), and ask what kind of help, if any, you’d be look for in today’s session. I might also use a paradox, like the Acid Test. If you wanted to reduce some of your negative feelings, I might try a variety of techniques, such as “How Many Minutes?” I’d also think about the Hidden Emotion Technique. Is there some problem in your life right now that you’re not dealing with, so you instead obsess about the problems in the world to distract yourself? I would continue this strategy until you gave me an A on Empathy, and then I would go on to the A of TEAM (Assessing Resistance), and ask what kind of help, if any, you’d be look for in today’s session. I might also use a paradox, like the Acid Test. If you wanted to reduce some of your negative feelings, I might try a variety of techniques, such as “How Many Minutes?” I’d also think about the Hidden Emotion Technique. Is there some problem in your life right now that you’re not dealing with, so you instead obsess about the problems in the world to distract yourself? I ask this because your negative thoughts are very general, but I always focus only on specifics, specific problems and moments. What’s has been going on with your parents or in the past or present that you are distressed about? I’ve found that when I (or my patients) solve one specific problem that’s bugging me, everything seems to suddenly brighten up. For example, you wrote : “I asked someone out I like; she surprisingly said yes. After 10 days of not hearing from her, I messaged her, . . . “ I wrote a book about dating, Intimate Connections, because I was a nurd and had a lot to learn about dating. One idea is that waiting 10 days might not be a good idea to arrange the specifics of the date, as that might make her feel uneasy. There’s a lot to learn about dating, for example. A tool like the Pleasure Predicting Sheet can sometimes help, too. And finally, a good therapist can also often speed things up. Sometimes two heads are better than one. You seem extremely smart and willing to work hard, so there’s all kinds of room for growth, learning, and greater joy. The Feeling Great App is NOT therapy, but the tools there might also be helpful, especially since you are willing to work hard a do a lot. That’s super important. Can I use this email in my reply in the show notes if we discuss your excellent questions? And should I change your name to Harold? Warmly, david Best, david Moritz asks: How do you help people with bipolar, schizophrenia, etc.? Hi David, You have mentioned a few times that there are only a handful of "real" psychological disorders with known causes, as opposed to just a collection of symptoms. Could you please tell a bit about how you would go about helping somebody with one of the "real" disorders (like Schizophrenia or Bipolar) using TEAM therapy? Most of the episodes with personal work seem to fall into the other category (anxiety, depression, compulsive behavior), so I'd be really curious about some examples. Best regards, Moritz Lenz David’s Reply Hi Moritz, Thanks! Good question, and happy to address this on an Ask David. Here's the answer in a nutshell. When working with someone with schizophrenia, the goal is to help them develop greater happiness and interpersonal functioning, exactly the same as with anyone else, using TEAM. The goal is not to cure schizophrenia, because we still do not know the cause and there is no cure. But we can help individuals with schizophrenia with problems that they are having. Bipolar: in the manic phase, usually strong meds are indicated, and often at least one hospitalization. For the rest of their lives, including depression, TEAM works great. Can add more in the podcast. Best, david John expresses gratitude for answer his question on Positive Reframing, which triggered an “ah ha moment.” Hi David and Rhonda! I have listened to Episode 415 and your response to my positive reframing question! I had a bit of a aha moment! I think I had been approaching it in the cheerleading sense and trying to encourage myself with these positive qualities rather than attaching the positives to the negative thoughts and feelings themselves! This has created a much stronger emotional response during the positive reframing section! The building up of the negative thoughts and feelings is a gamechanger! Thanks so much for the time and attention given to it during the podcast. Thanks so much again, I appreciate you folks way more than you could know! John David’s Reply Thanks, Rhonda and John. Yes, you’ve pointed out a huge error many people make when trying to grasp positive reframing. If it is okay, we can include your comment in a future podcast. Warmly, david Rhonda asks about the four Feared Fantasy Techniques: David’s Reply Here are the four Feared Fantasy Techniques Approval Addiction / Perceived Perfectionism: “I judge you.” Achievement Addiction: “High School Reunion.” Love Addiction: Rejection Feared Fantasy Submissiveness: No Practice There are quite a number of additional role plays, too, as you know. Maybe a question about all the role plays, bc we all have: Self-Critical Thoughts: Paradoxical and Straightforward Double Standard Externalization of Voices Uncovering Techniques Man from Mars Tempting Thoughts Devil’s Advocate Technique Tic-Tok Technique Resistance Externalization of Resistance How Many Minutes? Five Secrets / Relationship Conflict Intimacy Exercise One Minute-Drill I’ll bet you can think of more, too! This is one of the unique features of TEAM, but for whatever reason it seems like few therapists use them. As you know, on average they tend to be way more potent and emotional, and of course fast impact. Warmly, david
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