Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy

This podcast features David D. Burns MD, author of "Feeling Good, The New Mood Therapy," describing powerful new techniques to overcome depression and anxiety and develop greater joy and self-esteem. For therapists and the general public alike!

523: When Depression Is the Expression of Love 10/12/2026

523: When Depression Is the Expression of Love When Depression Is the Expression of Love Hosts:Kevin Cornelius, LMFTDr. David Burns When Depression Is the Expression of Love This episode is inspired by Dr. David Burns’ Psychology Today article, “When Love Masquerades as Depression.” Kevin and David explore the surprising idea that painful emotions such as depression, guilt, and shame can sometimes reflect a person’s deepest values and capacity to love. What if depression, guilt, and shame aren't always signs that something is wrong with us—but can sometimes be distorted expressions of something deeply meaningful and positive? In this episode of The Feeling Good Podcast, Kevin Cornelius and Dr. David Burns explore this provocative idea through the story of Jim, a man who had struggled with severe depression for nearly a decade following the tragic death of his stepson. Jim believed he was responsible for his stepson's death. Friends tried to reassure him that it wasn't his fault, but their attempts to convince him otherwise didn't help. Instead of trying to talk Jim out of his guilt and depression, David listened carefully and discovered something unexpected beneath his suffering: Jim's extraordinary capacity to love, care for, and help other people. Jim had devoted much of his life to helping others. Even during his years of depression, he had stepped away from his successful business and devoted himself to helping people who had lost limbs from landmines. His depression, guilt, and sense of responsibility were connected to some of his most deeply held values. David and Kevin discuss how Positive Reframing, one of the central concepts in TEAM-CBT, can help therapists and patients discover the positive intentions and core values underlying painful emotions and behaviors. Rather than immediately trying to eliminate a symptom, the therapist first seeks to understand what the symptom may be doing for the person. The conversation also explores why trying to "fix" someone can actually increase resistance, why empathy is often more powerful than reassurance, and how dramatic changes can sometimes occur when people discover a new perspective for themselves rather than simply being told what to think. David also describes how working with Jim on a seemingly unrelated problem revealed the larger pattern underlying his suffering. Jim was worried that withdrawing money from a friend's bank could cause the bank to fail. As they examined the thought together, Jim suddenly recognized how exaggerated his sense of responsibility had become—and burst out laughing. David describes this as a moment of "laughing enlightenment." The episode offers a fascinating look at several fundamental TEAM-CBT principles: positive reframing, empathy, resistance, cognitive distortions, the fractal nature of psychological problems, and the possibility of rapid change. Key Takeaways Look beneath painful emotions. Depression, guilt, shame, anxiety, and anger can sometimes be connected to important values, relationships, and positive intentions. Positive Reframing can reduce resistance. Rather than immediately trying to eliminate a symptom or correct a distorted thought, therapists can help patients understand what the symptom represents and how it may have served a positive purpose. Empathy comes before fixing. Trying to cheer someone up or convince them that their feelings are wrong can be counterproductive. Genuine understanding can create the openness needed for change. Our strengths can become liabilities when taken to extremes. Jim's extraordinary desire to help others was a beautiful quality, but his belief that he was responsible for everyone's well-being also contributed to his suffering. Work on the problem the patient wants to work on. Jim's immediate concern about a friend's bank revealed the same underlying pattern of excessive responsibility that had contributed to his depression. The "fractal" idea in TEAM-CBT. Core patterns of thinking and suffering can show up in many different situations. Changing one specific problem can illuminate and change the larger pattern. Don't simply tell people what to see—help them discover it. Jim's breakthrough came when he recognized for himself how unrealistic his sense of responsibility had become. David describes this as a rapid moment of insight. Hopelessness can itself be a cognitive distortion. Previous unsuccessful attempts at treatment do not necessarily mean that someone is a hopeless case. Therapists can have the same blind spots as their patients. David reflects on his own belief that he should be able to help everyone, recognizing both its motivating power and its potential costs. Recovery can transform a person's life. Jim ultimately became fully engaged with his relationships, work, and life, and continued to express gratitude years after his recovery. Read the Article “When Love Masquerades as Depression” by Dr. David Burns, published in Psychology Today. Listener Survey We'd love to hear from you! Your feedback helps shape future episodes and allows us to create content that is as helpful and meaningful as possible. Please use this to take the feedback survey and share your thoughts with us about this episode. Your voice matters—and as David points out in this episode, sometimes the most important conversations begin when we're willing to express what we're really thinking and feeling. Thank you for listening to The Feeling Good Podcast! Contact Information Kevin Cornelius, LMFT is a Level 5 Certified Master TEAM-CBT Therapist and Trainer and the Clinical Director of Feeling Good Institute--Silicon Valley. He specializes in the treatment of trauma, anxiety, depression, relationship problems and insomnia. You can reach Kevin at [email protected] and visit his website at . You can reach Dr. Burns at [email protected]. Feeling down in these turbulent times? Take a ride on our . Feeling Great feels wonderful! You owe it to yourself to feel GREAT! Give the Greatest Gifts of ALL--Love and Happiness! /episode/index/show/feelinggood/id/43136153

522: What If the Real Antidepressant is You? 10/05/2026

522: What If the Real Antidepressant is You? What If the Real Antidepressant Is You? The placebo effect is powerful—and why that truth matters more than you think. Hosts:Kevin Cornelius, LMFTDr. David Burns What if one of the most widely accepted ideas in mental health isn't true? In this fascinating episode, Dr. David Burns and Kevin Cornelius discuss David's recent Psychology Today article, "What If the Real Antidepressant Is You? The Placebo Effect Is Powerful—and Why That Truth Matters More Than You Think." Together they explore decades of research on antidepressants, the surprising power of the placebo effect, and why giving yourself credit for your own recovery may be one of the most important—and hopeful—ideas in psychology. Whether you're taking antidepressants, considering them, or simply curious about the science of depression and recovery, this conversation will challenge assumptions, answer difficult questions with compassion, and leave you with a new perspective on where healing really comes from. Episode Summary Can a sugar pill relieve depression? The answer, surprisingly, is yes. But what if that isn't the most interesting question? In this thought-provoking episode, Dr. David Burns and Kevin Cornelius discuss David's recent Psychology Today article, "What If the Real Antidepressant Is You? The Placebo Effect Is Powerful—and Why That Truth Matters More Than You Think." Together they examine decades of research, clinical experience, and one of the biggest controversies in psychiatry: Do antidepressant medications work because of their chemistry—or because of the hope and expectation they inspire? David explains why his own experience treating thousands of patients led him to question the effectiveness of antidepressant medications long before large-scale analyses reached similar conclusions. He shares the story of discovering research comparing antidepressants with placebos, and why those findings changed the way he thought about depression treatment forever. The conversation then takes an unexpected turn as David tells a memorable story about a fictional "miracle drug" named Placebo. Through this thought experiment, he explains why the placebo effect is often misunderstood—and why recovering on a placebo doesn't mean someone is "faking it." Instead, David argues that people may be activating their own remarkable capacity for healing through hope, expectation, and changes in the way they think. Kevin raises thoughtful questions that many listeners may be asking: If antidepressants aren't doing the healing, why do so many people feel convinced they helped? Why do people become angry when the placebo effect is discussed? If the placebo effect is real, does that mean cognitive therapy is "just a placebo" too? How can we distinguish between hope, expectancy, and treatments that produce unique therapeutic benefits? David also discusses new research from the Feeling Great app suggesting that while expectancy contributes to improvement, TEAM-CBT techniques appear to have measurable therapeutic effects above and beyond placebo alone. The discussion also explores: Why David believes patients deserve the credit for their own recovery. How understanding how you recovered can help protect you from future episodes of depression. Common side effects and withdrawal symptoms associated with antidepressants. Why David encourages listeners never to stop psychiatric medication without working closely with their prescribing clinician. Drug-free approaches to depression, including TEAM-CBT, Feeling Good, Feeling Great, and the Feeling Great app. Toward the end of the episode, Kevin asks David what gives him hope after more than five decades of clinical work. David shares exciting early findings from ongoing research on the Feeling Great app, reflects on the future of TEAM-CBT, and closes with an encouraging message for anyone who believes they're hopeless: in his experience, hopelessness itself is almost always the illness speaking—not reality. Whether you're curious about antidepressants, fascinated by the placebo effect, or simply looking for hope in your own recovery, this episode will challenge assumptions and invite you to think differently about where healing really comes from. Memorable Takeaways The placebo effect isn't fake—it may be one of the most powerful healing forces we possess. Hope, expectation, and belief can produce genuine emotional and biological changes. You deserve the credit for your recovery. If you improve, understanding how you got better gives you the power to do it again when life knocks you down. Healing doesn't have to come from a pill. According to David, lasting recovery comes from learning to change the thoughts and behaviors that keep depression alive. Question assumptions—even the popular ones. Science advances by following the evidence wherever it leads, even when the conclusions are uncomfortable or controversial. A treatment can create hope without being the source of healing. The conversation explores the important distinction between the benefits of expectancy and the unique effects of a treatment itself. Never stop psychiatric medication on your own. If you're considering changing or discontinuing medication, work closely with your prescribing clinician to do so safely. Hopelessness is a feeling—not a fact. David argues that hopelessness is one of depression's greatest illusions, and that recovery is often possible even when it seems unimaginable. The most important question isn't "What cured me?" but "What did I do that helped me recover?" Your answer may become your roadmap for staying well in the future. Listener Survey We'd love to hear from you! Your feedback helps shape future episodes and allows us to create content that is as helpful and meaningful as possible. Please use this to take the feedback survey and share your thoughts with us about this episode. Your voice matters—and as David points out in this episode, sometimes the most important conversations begin when we're willing to express what we're really thinking and feeling. Thank you for listening to The Feeling Good Podcast! Contact Information Kevin Cornelius, LMFT is a Level 5 Certified Master TEAM-CBT Therapist and Trainer and the Clinical Director of Feeling Good Institute--Silicon Valley. He specializes in the treatment of trauma, anxiety, depression, relationship problems and insomnia. You can reach Kevin at [email protected] and visit his website at . You can reach Dr. Burns at [email protected]. Feeling down in these turbulent times? Take a ride on our . Feeling Great feels wonderful! You owe it to yourself to feel GREAT! Give the Greatest Gifts of ALL--Love and Happiness! /episode/index/show/feelinggood/id/42964783

521: Ask David-Friendship, Rejection, and Anxiety About Sleep 09/28/2026

521: Ask David-Friendship, Rejection, and Anxiety About Sleep Ask David: Friendship, Rejection, and Anxiety About Sleep Hosts:Kevin Cornelius, LMFTDr. David BurnsGuest: Dr. Matt May In this Ask David episode of the Feeling Good Podcast, David Burns, Dr. Matt May, and Kevin Cornelius tackle two listener questions: one about the painful experience of feeling that your efforts at friendship aren’t being reciprocated, and another about anxiety-induced insomnia. The conversation explores a common theme underlying both problems: our suffering often comes not only from what happens, but from the thoughts and assumptions we make about what happens. When Friendship Doesn’t Feel Reciprocal Brittany writes about a recurring pattern in her relationships. She is usually the one who reaches out, initiates conversations, and tries to build friendships, but she doesn’t feel that others make the same effort. She wonders: “What am I doing wrong?” Kevin suggests an important alternative: perhaps she isn’t doing anything wrong at all. There may be many explanations for another person’s lack of reciprocity. They may be busy, uncomfortable making new friends, or simply not interested in the same kind of relationship. Most importantly, we aren’t the right friend for everybody—and everybody isn’t the right friend for us. David introduces the TEAM-CBT technique of Reattribution, encouraging Brittany to consider explanations other than the automatic conclusion that something is wrong with her. The group then explores Changing the Focus, one of the Five Secrets of Effective Communication. Rather than silently wondering what another person is thinking, Brittany could directly—and respectfully—acknowledge the tension and ask the other person how they experience the relationship. But saying something this vulnerable can feel risky. What if the other person really does reject us? David, Matt, and Kevin explore this fear through a Feared Fantasy role-play, imagining some of the harshest things another person might say. The goal isn't to create a perfect response; it is to discover that even rejection can be faced, accepted, and explored with curiosity. The role-play produces one of the episode’s central insights: accepting another person’s criticism or rejection can sometimes be much more powerful than trying to defend ourselves against it. When Trying to Sleep Becomes the Problem The second listener, writing from China, describes three months of anxiety and insomnia. They desperately want to get eight hours of sleep, but the fear of not sleeping creates tension that makes falling asleep even harder. Then, when they realize they haven't slept well, the panic starts all over again. David immediately points to the value of a Daily Mood Log. Rather than guessing what is causing the anxiety, he recommends identifying the specific negative thoughts, emotions, and belief ratings connected to the insomnia. Matt suggests using the What-If Technique to uncover the fear underneath the anxiety: What are you afraid will happen if you don't get enough sleep? Perhaps the fear is that you won't be able to function, that something terrible will happen, or that you will lose control. Once the underlying fear is identified, it can become something that can actually be examined and challenged. Kevin also challenges the assumption that everyone needs exactly eight hours of sleep to be healthy. The discussion emphasizes that anxiety about the need to sleep can itself make sleep more difficult. David summarizes the idea bluntly: the problem may not be insomnia itself, but the distorted thoughts about insomnia. The “shoulds”—I should be sleeping; I have to get eight hours—can turn a bad night of sleep into a major emotional crisis. The group also discusses behavioral approaches to insomnia, including sleep restriction, getting out of bed rather than lying awake and frustrated, and paying attention to factors such as caffeine and sleep habits. Important: The discussion of alprazolam, Tylenol, and other sleep-related medications reflects comments made during the podcast and should not be interpreted as individualized medical advice. Medication decisions should be discussed with a qualified medical professional. Key Takeaways Not every lack of reciprocity means something is wrong with you. Consider alternative explanations before concluding that you are unlikable or doing something wrong. You aren't the right friend for everyone. Sometimes the healthiest response is to recognize that two people simply aren't a good match and move on. Changing the Focus can bring hidden tension into the open. Rather than guessing what someone thinks, talk openly about what you're noticing and ask for their perspective. Vulnerability is often what makes honest connection possible. Saying “I feel hurt” or “I sense some tension” can feel risky, but it can also create an opportunity for genuine understanding. Use the Feared Fantasy to face rejection. Imagine the worst response you might receive and practice responding to it rather than avoiding the conversation altogether. Acceptance can be disarming. Instead of automatically defending yourself when someone criticizes or rejects you, try accepting what they are saying and becoming genuinely curious about their experience. Identify the thoughts underneath anxiety. With insomnia, ask: What am I afraid will happen if I don't sleep? The answer may reveal the real source of the panic. “I should be sleeping” can become part of the problem. Fighting insomnia and catastrophizing about its consequences may increase anxiety and make sleep more difficult. Precision matters. A Daily Mood Log can help identify exactly what emotions and negative thoughts are driving a problem, rather than relying on vague descriptions of anxiety or distress. Look for hidden emotions and unresolved problems. David discusses the possibility that insomnia can sometimes be connected to relationship difficulties, work problems, depression, anxiety, or other issues that haven't been addressed. Coming Up on Ask David The episode ends with two intriguing questions for future episodes. Kevin raises the difficult question of what to say when someone believes an antidepressant has “changed their life,” while Matt introduces a question about the possible impact of social media on mood and relationships. As David points out, the social-media question raises an important distinction between a compelling hypothesis and something that has actually been demonstrated through research. The conversation returns to a broader TEAM-CBT theme: vulnerability and openly sharing our feelings may be important ingredients in developing deeper, more loving relationships—whether online or face-to-face. Listener Survey We'd love to hear from you!Your feedback helps shape future episodes and allows us to create content that is as helpful and meaningful as possible. Please use this to take the feedback survey and share your thoughts with us about this episode.Your voice matters—and as David points out in this episode, sometimes the most important conversations begin when we're willing to express what we're really thinking and feeling. Thank you for listening to The Feeling Good Podcast! Contact Information You can reach Matt May, MD @ Kevin Cornelius, LMFT is a Level 5 Certified Master TEAM-CBT Therapist and Trainer and the Clinical Director of Feeling Good Institute--Silicon Valley. He specializes in the treatment of trauma, anxiety, depression, relationship problems and insomnia. You can reach Kevin at [email protected] and visit his website at . You can reach Dr. Burns at [email protected]. Feeling down in these turbulent times? Take a ride on our . Feeling Great feels wonderful! You owe it to yourself to feel GREAT! Give the Greatest Gifts of ALL--Love and Happiness! Download the app now at /episode/index/show/feelinggood/id/42901545

520: Ask David--Grief, Love and Letting Go 09/21/2026

520: Ask David--Grief, Love and Letting Go Ask David: Grief, Love and Letting Go Hosts:Kevin Cornelius, LMFTDr. David BurnsGuest: Dr. Matt May In this Ask David episode of The Feeling Good Podcast, David Burns, Kevin Cornelius, and Matt May explore three emotionally difficult situations: watching a child struggle and desperately wanting to help, grieving the loss of someone you love, and trying to pursue a romantic relationship with someone who has clearly said no. The common thread? Our suffering often increases when we try to control something—or someone—that we cannot control. When Your Child Is Struggling The episode begins with a parent asking how to help a daughter who is having a difficult time. David offers a counterintuitive suggestion: sometimes the best way to help is to stop trying to help. Rather than pushing advice, solutions, or therapy, parents can learn to listen with genuine empathy. David recommends learning the Five Secrets of Effective Communication, which can help parents create an environment where their children feel understood and are more willing to talk. David also emphasizes an important principle from his own clinical practice: he doesn't try to help people against their will. Unless a child is very young, the person receiving therapy needs to want the help and ask for it. Matt adds another important dimension: parents and therapists may experience guilt, frustration, anger, or self-blame when they can't make someone else better. Those feelings don't mean you're a bad parent or therapist. They may simply reflect how deeply you care. What Is Healthy Grief? The second question comes from someone grieving the death of a spouse and wondering whether intense misery and despair are signs of unhealthy grief—and how long healthy grief is supposed to last. The discussion offers an important distinction: Healthy grief can be extremely painful. Sadness itself isn't necessarily something that needs to be "fixed." If the painful thoughts are accurate—"I'll never see my spouse again" or "I miss the person I loved"—then the appropriate response may be empathy rather than cognitive restructuring. But grief can become complicated by distorted thoughts, such as: "It's my fault that she died." "I should have done more." "I should have known." "I should have prevented this." "I'll never be happy again." These thoughts can add guilt, shame, anger, and hopelessness to the natural pain of loss. David also challenges the idea that there is a prescribed timetable for grief. There is no universal schedule that says when someone "should" be finished grieving. Trying to force yourself to recover according to an arbitrary timeline may simply create another layer of suffering. Instead, David encourages listeners to lean into grief rather than judge it. Deep grief can be understood as an expression of deep love. When Romantic Pursuit Becomes a Trap The final question comes from Ahmed, who became interested in a divorced woman, expressed his desire for marriage very early, and continued pursuing her even after she made it clear that she wasn't interested. The discussion explores the difference between genuine connection and emotional pursuit. Matt identifies several thoughts that can fuel what he calls a "love addiction," including: "I can't be happy without this person." Or the belief that if you're sincere, thoughtful, and persistent enough, you can eventually convince someone to love you. David and Kevin challenge that idea. If someone has clearly communicated that they aren't interested, continuing to pursue them isn't likely to create attraction. Instead, it may be a sign that you're avoiding the pain of acceptance and letting go. David shares personal stories about learning to overcome his own fear of rejection, including deliberately seeking out rejection so that it would no longer have the power to frighten him. The ultimate goal isn't to convince one particular person to love you. It's to become comfortable enough with yourself that you don't need any particular person to make you happy. As Kevin puts it, there is something much more appealing about someone who is already enjoying their life and invites another person to join them than someone who is essentially saying, "Please be with me so that I can be happy." Key Takeaways 1. You can't make someone want help. When someone you love is suffering, your instinct may be to push harder. But sometimes the most helpful thing you can do is listen, empathize, and give the other person the freedom to choose whether they want help. 2. Empathy may be more appropriate than problem-solving. Not every painful emotion is a symptom that needs to be eliminated. When someone's sadness is based on reality, especially after a profound loss, compassion and empathy may be the most appropriate response. 3. Look for the thoughts behind emotional suffering. The distinction between healthy and unhealthy grief isn't simply how intensely someone feels. Ask what thoughts are creating the emotional pain. Accurate thoughts may call for empathy; distorted thoughts may provide an opportunity for cognitive change. 4. There is no universal timetable for grief. Grief isn't a race. Trying to determine how long you "should" grieve can create additional pressure and self-criticism. 5. "Shoulds" can make grief even more painful. Thoughts such as "I should have known" or "I should have done more" can turn natural sadness into guilt and self-blame. 6. You cannot persuade someone into wanting a relationship. Sincerity, persistence, and good intentions don't create attraction when the other person has already said no. Sometimes the healthiest response is to accept the rejection and let go. 7. Learn to be happy on your own. One of the central lessons from David's book Intimate Connections is that healthy relationships become easier when you aren't dependent on another person for your happiness. 8. Rejection doesn't have to mean something is wrong with you. Fear of rejection can keep people attached to unavailable partners. Learning to tolerate rejection—and even deliberately practicing it—can dramatically reduce its emotional power. 9. Sometimes "letting go" is the path toward getting what you really want. Whether you're trying to force a child into therapy, force yourself to stop grieving, or force someone to love you, the attempt to control the uncontrollable can keep you stuck. Acceptance creates room for genuine connection and change. Resources Mentioned David recommends several previous Feeling Good Podcast episodes and books during the discussion, including: , for learning the Five Secrets of Effective Communication. , for understanding loneliness, dating, rejection, and developing healthy relationships. Previous Feeling Good Podcast episodes on helping children and the problems that can arise when helping doesn't help. Questions for Reflection When someone I love is struggling, am I listening—or trying to fix? What emotions do I experience when I can't make someone else better? During grief, which of my thoughts are accurate, and which might contain "shoulds" or self-blame? Am I judging myself for how long I am grieving? Have I ever pursued someone because I believed I couldn't be happy without them? What would it look like to build a satisfying life without needing a particular person to complete it? What would happen if I stopped trying to control an outcome I can't control? The episode ultimately offers a compassionate message: you can care deeply without trying to control, grieve deeply without judging yourself, and love someone without needing them to love you back. Listener Survey We'd love to hear from you!Your feedback helps shape future episodes and allows us to create content that is as helpful and meaningful as possible. Please use this to take the feedback survey and share your thoughts with us about this episode.Your voice matters—and as David points out in this episode, sometimes the most important conversations begin when we're willing to express what we're really thinking and feeling. Thank you for listening to The Feeling Good Podcast! Contact Information You can reach Matt May, MD @ Kevin Cornelius, LMFT is a Level 5 Certified Master TEAM-CBT Therapist and Trainer and the Clinical Director of Feeling Good Institute--Silicon Valley. He specializes in the treatment of trauma, anxiety, depression, relationship problems and insomnia. You can reach Kevin at [email protected] and visit his website at . You can reach Dr. Burns at [email protected]. Feeling down in these turbulent times? Take a ride on our . Feeling Great feels wonderful! You owe it to yourself to feel GREAT! Give the Greatest Gifts of ALL--Love and Happiness! /episode/index/show/feelinggood/id/42782420

519: What Therapists Get Wrong—and How to Fix It 09/14/2026

519: What Therapists Get Wrong—and How to Fix It Episode 519: What Therapists Get Wrong—and How to Fix It Hosts:Kevin Cornelius, LMFTDr. David BurnsGuest: Jeremy Karmel What happens when therapy becomes something you simply keep doing rather than something that actually helps you get better? In this lively and provocative episode of The Feeling Good Podcast, Kevin Cornelius, LMFT, joins Dr. David Burns and Jeremy Karmel for a candid conversation about some of the biggest problems they see in modern mental health care—and what therapists can do differently. Jeremy brings a unique perspective to the discussion: he experienced severe depression in college and spent months in different therapies and therapy groups without getting better. Then, working with one of David Burns’ students, he discovered powerful cognitive therapy techniques that produced dramatic results in just two weeks. The experience left him both grateful and frustrated—and motivated to understand why effective treatment can sometimes be so difficult to find. David, Kevin, and Jeremy explore several common pitfalls in therapy, including the failure to measure results, getting lost in the past, talking about problems in vague and general terms, and assuming that every therapist is qualified to treat every kind of problem. Accountability: Is Therapy Actually Working? The conversation begins with one of David's central concerns: accountability. If someone has been coming to therapy for months—or even years—how do they know whether treatment is actually helping? Kevin shares his own experience of spending several years in therapy without clearly defined goals or any systematic testing of progress. Although he valued the relationship with his therapist, he now sees the lack of specific goals and measurement as a major limitation. By contrast, his current approach involves establishing concrete treatment goals and measuring progress before and after sessions. Jeremy points out that many people in therapy cannot even answer a basic question: What are you working on? Without clear goals, it becomes difficult for patients to hold therapists—or themselves—accountable for results. Do We Really Need to Find the Cause in the Past? The group then tackles another controversial question: Does effective therapy require uncovering the origins of a problem in childhood or the distant past? David tells the story of a woman with a severe elevator phobia who had been told in psychoanalysis that the roots of her fear were in childhood—and that overcoming it might take several more years. During a workshop, David instead helped her confront the feared elevator directly. Within minutes, her fear disappeared, and she subsequently rode skyscraper elevators without difficulty. The larger point isn't that the past is irrelevant. Rather, David argues that therapy can become unnecessarily focused on discovering hypothetical causes when the more practical question is: What is bothering you right now, and what can we do about it? The conversation extends this idea to trauma and PTSD. David describes an approach that focuses primarily on the patient's current distress rather than repeatedly dwelling on the traumatic history. Jeremy shares an example of someone whose debilitating trauma-related flashbacks improved after confronting the traumatic memory directly. From General Problems to Specific Moments: The Power of Fractals Another major theme is the distinction between general problems and specific problems. People commonly come into therapy saying things like: “I don't know who I am.” “I have low self-esteem.” “I'm bad at relationships.” “I'm always depressed.” “I have trouble with people.” But what does that actually mean? David and Kevin argue that the therapist's job is to find a specific moment when the supposedly general problem was actually happening. What was going on? Where were you? Who was there? What were you feeling? And, most importantly, what were you telling yourself? David describes these specific moments as “fractals”: individual situations that contain the repeating pattern of a much larger problem. By solving the specific problem, you may simultaneously begin solving the general problem. Jeremy illustrates this with his own tendency to argue. Looking at specific interactions through David's Relationship Journal helped him recognize a recurring pattern: instead of listening and looking for truth in what another person was saying, he would shift into arguing. Is Your Therapist Actually an Expert in Your Problem? The final major theme may be the most provocative: Therapists aren't necessarily experts in every problem their patients bring to therapy. David and Jeremy use dating as an example. A therapist may have extensive training in psychotherapy without having any particular expertise in dating, flirting, relationships, or the practical skills involved in meeting potential partners. Kevin offers an important distinction: therapists don't necessarily need to give advice about every subject. Instead, they can help clients identify the thoughts, emotions, behaviors, and communication patterns that are getting in their way. This leads to a broader principle: therapy is not one-size-fits-all. Different problems require different skills, and therapists should be honest about what they know—and what they don't. Kevin describes how he deliberately developed greater expertise in treating anxiety rather than trying to present himself as an expert in everything. Key Takeaways Therapy should have measurable goals.If you don't know what you're trying to accomplish, it becomes difficult to determine whether therapy is working. Relief and effectiveness aren't necessarily the same thing.A supportive therapeutic relationship can feel valuable while still failing to produce meaningful progress on the problems that brought someone to therapy. Don't automatically assume the past is the key to the cure.The speakers argue that many problems can be addressed more effectively by focusing on what is happening in the present. Get specific.Instead of discussing “low self-esteem,” “identity,” or “relationship problems” in the abstract, identify a specific recent moment when the problem occurred. Specific moments can reveal larger patterns.The “fractal” concept suggests that a single upsetting interaction may contain the same cognitive and emotional patterns that repeatedly create suffering elsewhere. Therapists aren't experts at everything.A psychotherapy credential doesn't automatically make someone an expert in every problem a client might bring. Specialization matters.Therapists can become much more effective by developing deep expertise in particular problems and treatment methods. Therapists should be willing to say, “I'm not the right person for this.”Recognizing the limits of one's expertise can be a sign of professionalism and humility rather than weakness. The ultimate question is simple: Is the patient getting better?For David, Kevin, and Jeremy, accountability means keeping the focus on results—and continually learning better ways to help people achieve them. About This Episode This episode features Dr. David Burns, Kevin Cornelius, LMFT, and Jeremy Karmel, a former therapy client whose own experience with ineffective treatment led him to become deeply involved in developing the Feeling Great app. The conversation is candid, humorous, and intentionally provocative—but its central message is constructive: when therapists identify weaknesses in their approach, measure their results, develop better skills, and remain humble about what they don't know, they can become dramatically more effective. As David puts it near the end of the episode, there are problems in therapy—but there are also solutions, and learning new skills can open the door to much greater effectiveness. About Jeremy Karmel Jeremy Karmel works with David Burns on the Feeling Great app and became passionate about TEAM-CBT after experiencing a dramatic recovery from severe depression during college. After trying numerous forms of therapy without success, he worked with Matt May and experienced a complete clearing of his depression in approximately two weeks. If You Enjoyed This Episode If this conversation resonated with you, please subscribe to The Feeling Good Podcast, leave a rating or review, and share this episode with someone who struggles with anxiety or avoidance. Your support helps more people discover practical, evidence-based tools for overcoming fear and building happier lives. Listener Survey We'd love to hear from you!Your feedback helps shape future episodes and allows us to create content that is as helpful and meaningful as possible. Please use this to take the feedback survey and share your thoughts with us about this episode.Your voice matters—and as David points out in this episode, sometimes the most important conversations begin when we're willing to express what we're really thinking and feeling. Thank you for listening to The Feeling Good Podcast! Contact Information Kevin Cornelius, LMFT is a Level 5 Certified Master TEAM-CBT Therapist and Trainer and the Clinical Director of Feeling Good Institute--Silicon Valley. He specializes in the treatment of trauma, anxiety, depression, relationship problems and insomnia. You can reach Kevin at [email protected] and visit his website at . You can reach Dr. Burns at [email protected]. Feeling down in these turbulent times? Take a ride on our . Feeling Great feels wonderful! You owe it to yourself to feel GREAT! Give the Greatest Gifts of ALL--Love and Happiness! /episode/index/show/feelinggood/id/42465280

518: Why So Much Therapy Doesn't Work (And What Actually Does) 09/07/2026

518: Why So Much Therapy Doesn't Work (And What Actually Does) Episode 518: Why So Much Therapy Doesn't Work (And What Actually Does) Hosts: Kevin Cornelius, LMFT Dr. David Burns Guest: Jeremy Karmel What happens when therapy doesn’t work? In this provocative episode of The Feeling Good Podcast, David Burns and Jeremy Karmel join Kevin Cornelius to examine some uncomfortable questions about the mental health field: Why do some people remain in therapy for years without getting better? Why do so few therapists measure their patients’ progress? What happens when therapists become overly attached to one particular school of therapy? And how can we make psychotherapy more effective, accountable, and evidence-based? Jeremy brings a particularly personal perspective to the conversation. After experiencing severe depression in college and trying numerous forms of therapy without success, he worked with Matt May using TEAM-CBT and experienced a dramatic recovery in roughly two weeks. That experience ultimately led him to become deeply involved in TEAM-CBT and in the development of the Feeling Great app. David and Jeremy describe a list of more than 30 concerns about the way mental health care is commonly practiced today. They emphasize that the goal isn't simply to criticize therapists, but to encourage a radical improvement in the effectiveness of psychotherapy. In This Episode 1. Can financial incentives create a conflict of interest? David and Jeremy explore a difficult question: If therapists are paid by the session, is there an inherent incentive to keep therapy going longer than necessary? They contrast long-term therapy without measurable improvement with a model in which the therapist's goal is to help the client recover as quickly and completely as possible. David argues that therapists should be able to define what successful treatment looks like and determine whether their interventions are actually producing meaningful change. Kevin offers another perspective from his experience at Feeling Good Institute, where brief TEAM-CBT therapy can lead to rapid improvement while also generating referrals because clients recognize that the treatment is effective. 2. Are schools of therapy becoming like “cults”? David and Jeremy question the tendency within psychotherapy to become attached to particular theorists, schools, and treatment models. Instead of assuming that one approach explains every psychological problem, they argue for flexibility. Depression, anxiety, relationship problems, and other difficulties may have very different causes and may require very different interventions. David describes TEAM-CBT as a framework for effective psychotherapy rather than allegiance to one particular technique. He has developed more than 140 techniques and emphasizes selecting methods according to the individual's specific problem. Jeremy points out that therapists and patients can be tempted to treat the ideas of famous figures such as Freud or Carl Rogers as unquestionable truths rather than hypotheses that should be tested against evidence. 3. The refusal to measure Perhaps the strongest theme of the episode is the importance of measurement. David argues that therapists need to know whether their patients are actually improving—not simply assume that they are. His approach involves measuring symptoms at the beginning and end of sessions and tracking changes over time. If a person begins a session feeling 90% depressed and ends at 80%, that's useful information. If the numbers don't improve from week to week, the therapist has evidence that something needs to change. On the other hand, dramatic changes can provide tangible evidence that treatment is working. Jeremy shares the story of a friend who had apparently been depressed for 18 months or more while receiving therapy, yet neither the therapist nor the patient had been systematically measuring whether the depression was improving. 4. Therapists aren't always accurate judges of how their patients feel One of the most surprising parts of the discussion is David's argument that therapists' clinical intuition can be remarkably inaccurate. He describes research in which highly trained clinicians interviewed patients extensively and then estimated how depressed, anxious, angry, or suicidal the patients were. Their estimates were extremely inaccurate compared with the patients' own ratings. The lesson is humbling: We cannot reliably assume that we know how another person feels simply because we've spent a lot of time talking with them. Measurement provides information that intuition cannot. 5. Measurement can transform the therapist, too David explains that measurement isn't simply a way of judging the patient—or judging the therapist. It can become one of the most powerful tools for improving clinical skill. If a therapist believes a session went wonderfully but the patient's ratings show otherwise, the therapist has an opportunity to learn. Likewise, if a particular intervention consistently produces dramatic improvements, measurement can reveal what works and help the therapist do more of it. Kevin shares his own experience of how using testing transformed his work with clients and helped him learn how to become a more effective therapist. 6. What can therapists and patients do differently? The episode ultimately isn't about giving up on therapy. It's about demanding better therapy. David argues that the problems discussed—including conflicts of interest, allegiance to particular schools of therapy, and the failure to measure outcomes—are solvable. Therapists can begin using data to evaluate their effectiveness and become more willing to change their methods when patients aren't improving. Kevin also encourages people seeking therapy to ask prospective therapists whether they use measurement and whether they track progress from session to session. Key Takeaways Therapy should be evaluated by its results. Good intentions, empathy, and a strong therapeutic relationship are important, but they aren't substitutes for meaningful improvement. Therapists need to measure. Without measurement, it can be difficult to know whether a client is improving, staying the same, or getting worse. Don't assume one therapy fits every problem. Different emotional and relationship problems may require different techniques. Question therapeutic dogma. Famous therapists and established schools of therapy can offer valuable ideas, but their claims should be evaluated rather than accepted simply because they come from an authority. Clinical intuition has limits. Even experienced therapists may be surprisingly inaccurate when judging how patients are actually feeling. Measurement is a learning tool. Tracking outcomes doesn't just hold therapists accountable—it helps them discover what works and improve their skills. Patients can become informed consumers of therapy. Asking a prospective therapist how they measure progress can provide valuable information about their approach. Therapy can be brief and effective. The goal shouldn't necessarily be years of treatment; the goal should be meaningful improvement and relapse prevention. The field can change. David, Jeremy, and Kevin emphasize that the problems they identify aren't inevitable. Therapists can adopt more flexible, measurable, evidence-based approaches. A Question for Listeners How do you know if your therapy is working? If you're a therapist, do you routinely measure your clients' symptoms and satisfaction? If you're a therapy client, has anyone ever shown you objective evidence that you're getting better? And perhaps most importantly: Would you have the courage to discover that your current approach isn't working—and then change it? About Jeremy Karmel Jeremy Karmel works with David Burns on the Feeling Great app and became passionate about TEAM-CBT after experiencing a dramatic recovery from severe depression during college. After trying numerous forms of therapy without success, he worked with Matt May and experienced a complete clearing of his depression in approximately two weeks. Coming Up This conversation is the beginning of a larger discussion about the problems—and possibilities—of modern psychotherapy. As Kevin notes at the end of the episode, there are solutions to many of the problems discussed, and future episodes will explore more of them. If You Enjoyed This Episode If this conversation resonated with you, please subscribe to The Feeling Good Podcast, leave a rating or review, and share this episode with someone who struggles with anxiety or avoidance. Your support helps more people discover practical, evidence-based tools for overcoming fear and building happier lives. Listener Survey We'd love to hear from you!Your feedback helps shape future episodes and allows us to create content that is as helpful and meaningful as possible. Please use this to take the feedback survey and share your thoughts with us about this episode.Your voice matters—and as David points out in this episode, sometimes the most important conversations begin when we're willing to express what we're really thinking and feeling. Thank you for listening to The Feeling Good Podcast! Contact Information Kevin Cornelius, LMFT is a Level 5 Certified Master TEAM-CBT Therapist and Trainer and the Clinical Director of Feeling Good Institute--Silicon Valley. He specializes in the treatment of trauma, anxiety, depression, relationship problems and insomnia. You can reach Kevin at [email protected] and visit his website at . You can reach Dr. Burns at [email protected]. Feeling down in these turbulent times? Take a ride on our . Feeling Great feels wonderful! You owe it to yourself to feel GREAT! Give the Greatest Gifts of ALL--Love and Happiness! /episode/index/show/feelinggood/id/42381605

517: How a Bloody Trauma Case Cured My Lifelong Blood Phobia 08/31/2026

517: How a Bloody Trauma Case Cured My Lifelong Blood Phobia Episode 517: How a Bloody Trauma Case Cured My Lifelong Blood Phobia Hosts: Kevin Cornelius, LMFT Dr. David Burns Episode Summary Can your greatest fear become one of your greatest strengths? In this deeply personal episode, Dr. David Burns shares the remarkable true story of how a severe lifelong blood phobia nearly ended his medical career—and how one unforgettable day in the emergency room transformed that fear forever. David recounts his unconventional path to becoming a psychiatrist, including almost dropping out of medical school, taking years away from medicine, living without money while trying to create a life centered around helping others, and eventually finding his way back to psychiatry through a residency at Highland Hospital in Oakland. On his very first day in the emergency department, David was confronted with what seemed like his worst nightmare: a critically injured bombing victim covered in blood. Unable to avoid the situation, he was asked to help clean gunpowder from the patient's wounds. What began as overwhelming terror became an unexpected turning point that permanently erased his blood phobia—and ultimately shaped his career treating anxiety disorders. Along the way, David and Kevin explore why exposure is one of the most powerful treatments for anxiety, why motivation is essential for lasting change, and why courage doesn't require the absence of fear. This inspiring conversation is a reminder that the experiences we most want to avoid can sometimes become the doorway to profound growth. In This Episode Why David never intended to become a physician—and almost quit medical school. The childhood experiences that contributed to his lifelong blood phobia. How avoiding feared situations keeps anxiety alive. The extraordinary trauma case that unexpectedly became David's own exposure therapy. The surprising moment his fear disappeared completely. David's concept of the "200% cure"—when something you once feared becomes something you genuinely enjoy. Why therapists sometimes avoid using exposure therapy, even though it is one of the most effective anxiety treatments. Why motivation often determines whether people are able to face their fears. The role of acceptance and willingness during exposure. A moving reunion with Highland Hospital decades later through the surgeon who recently performed David's successful colon surgery. Key Takeaways Exposure works because avoidance keeps fear alive. The natural impulse is to escape what frightens us. Unfortunately, every act of avoidance teaches the brain that the feared situation is dangerous. When we stay in the feared situation long enough, anxiety eventually peaks and then naturally declines. The feared catastrophe rarely occurs, and our confidence grows. Courage means acting while you're afraid. Kevin highlights an important distinction: You don't have to eliminate fear before taking action. Real courage is moving forward even while your anxiety feels overwhelming. David's anxiety remained at a 100 out of 100 for nearly fifteen minutes before it suddenly dissolved. Anxiety cannot remain at its peak forever. One of the biggest misconceptions about anxiety is the belief that once it starts, it will continue indefinitely. In reality, anxiety naturally rises and falls. If we stop escaping and allow ourselves to experience it, it eventually loses its power. Motivation makes exposure possible. For years David simply avoided blood. Everything changed because he had something more important than avoiding fear: he wanted to become a psychiatrist. Having a compelling reason to face anxiety often makes difficult exposure exercises possible. Sometimes fear transforms into enthusiasm. David describes what he calls the "200% cure." A 100% cure means you're no longer afraid. A 200% cure means you actually enjoy doing the very thing you once feared. Many people who overcome fears discover new passions that once seemed impossible. Therapists can become afraid of their patients' anxiety. Kevin and David discuss an important obstacle in treatment: therapists themselves sometimes avoid exposure because they're afraid it will overwhelm the client. Ironically, protecting people from anxiety often prolongs suffering. Learning that anxiety is uncomfortable—but not dangerous—is one of the most healing discoveries patients can make. Exposure requires willingness, not comfort. The goal is never to feel relaxed before confronting a fear. The goal is to become willing to experience anxiety while pursuing what matters. Memorable Quotes "When you confront the thing you're afraid of, you discover that the monster has no teeth." "You don't have to be a hero. You just have to make the decision to do it." "The 100% cure is you're no longer afraid. The 200% cure is that you love doing the thing you were once afraid of." "The real harm is believing that anxiety itself is dangerous." Resources Mentioned Dr. David Burns' accompanying Psychology Today article, If You Enjoyed This Episode If this conversation resonated with you, please subscribe to The Feeling Good Podcast, leave a rating or review, and share this episode with someone who struggles with anxiety or avoidance. Your support helps more people discover practical, evidence-based tools for overcoming fear and building happier lives. Listener Survey We'd love to hear from you!Your feedback helps shape future episodes and allows us to create content that is as helpful and meaningful as possible. Please use this to take the feedback survey and share your thoughts with us about this episode.Your voice matters—and as David points out in this episode, sometimes the most important conversations begin when we're willing to express what we're really thinking and feeling. Thank you for listening to The Feeling Good Podcast! Contact Information Kevin Cornelius, LMFT is a Level 5 Certified Master TEAM-CBT Therapist and Trainer and the Clinical Director of Feeling Good Institute--Silicon Valley. He specializes in the treatment of trauma, anxiety, depression, relationship problems and insomnia. You can reach Kevin at [email protected] and visit his website at . You can reach Dr. Burns at [email protected]. Feeling down in these turbulent times? Take a ride on our . Feeling Great feels wonderful! You owe it to yourself to feel GREAT! Give the Greatest Gifts of ALL--Love and Happiness! /episode/index/show/feelinggood/id/42351035

516: The Man Who Was Fired Five Times 08/24/2026

516: The Man Who Was Fired Five Times The Man Who Was Fired Five Times How Letting Go of Blame Can Transform Your Life Hosts: Kevin Cornelius, LMFT Dr. David Burns What if the biggest obstacle to your happiness isn't your depression, your anxiety, or even the difficult people around you? What if it's the belief that everyone else needs to change first? In this powerful episode of the Feeling Good Podcast, Dr. David Burns and host Kevin Cornelius, LMFT, discuss one of David's favorite therapy stories from his recent Psychology Today article, "The Man Who Was Fired Five Times." What begins as the story of a brilliant computer programmer who can't keep a job becomes an unforgettable lesson in overcoming resistance, building meaningful relationships, and discovering the extraordinary power of humility. This episode is packed with practical TEAM-CBT techniques, fascinating therapy demonstrations, and one of the most inspiring recovery stories you'll ever hear. In This Episode A Brilliant Man Who Couldn't Keep a Job David introduces us to "Bhagwant" (a pseudonym), an exceptionally gifted computer programmer who sought treatment after being fired five times in just two years. Although he initially came to therapy complaining of low self-esteem, David quickly noticed something much deeper. Bhagwant believed: His coworkers were conspiring against him. His bosses failed to appreciate his intelligence. Other people were the source of nearly all his suffering. Despite his obvious brilliance, his habit of blaming others had become the greatest obstacle to both his career and his happiness. Why David Didn't Try to Help Him...At First Instead of immediately offering therapy techniques, David did something surprising. He told Bhagwant that perhaps they shouldn't work together. Why? Because therapy would require Bhagwant—not his coworkers—to do all of the changing. Rather than arguing with Bhagwant or trying to convince him he was wrong, David used one of the most powerful TEAM-CBT methods: Dangling the Carrot By joining Bhagwant's resistance instead of fighting it, David completely changed the emotional dynamic. Instead of saying: "You're the problem." He essentially said: "You're right—it seems terribly unfair that you'd have to do all the work when everyone else is causing the problem." That paradoxical response immediately dissolved Bhagwant's resistance. Moments later, he admitted something he had hidden from David: He hadn't merely been placed on probation. He had already been fired—for the fifth time. Why Specificity Matters One of the central themes of the episode is David's insistence on working with specific moments instead of vague labels. Rather than treating "low self-esteem" as the problem, David asks: What happened? Where were you? What time was it? What exactly were you thinking? This "fractal" approach allows therapy to target the real thoughts creating emotional suffering instead of treating abstract diagnostic labels. As David explains, problems can only be solved when they're connected to a real moment in time. Recovery Begins with Practice Once Bhagwant committed fully to treatment, he became an extraordinarily dedicated student of TEAM-CBT. He learned to: Identify cognitive distortions Challenge negative thoughts using Externalization of Voices Master the Five Secrets of Effective Communication Replace defensiveness with curiosity and empathy At one point, David actually had to limit Bhagwant's therapy homework because he was spending six to eight hours a day practicing. The Job Interview That Changed Everything Eventually Bhagwant received a job offer from a company in Florida. David gave him one final piece of surprising advice: Ask your new employer to agree to criticize you every single week. Specifically, David suggested requesting regular meetings where supervisors would openly point out mistakes so Bhagwant could practice using the Five Secrets and the Disarming Technique. The company agreed. The results were astonishing. Within weeks: He had developed excellent relationships with coworkers. He won Employee of the Month. He received multiple promotions. His salary doubled. Years later, David received a Christmas card that brought tears to his eyes. Bhagwant had become CEO of the very company that hired him. The Disarming Technique Much of the second half of the episode explores one of the most challenging—and most transformative—TEAM-CBT skills. What Is Disarming? Disarming means sincerely finding the truth in criticism, even when the criticism seems exaggerated or unfair. David explains what he calls the Law of Opposites: Defending yourself often convinces others the criticism is true. Agreeing sincerely with whatever truth exists often causes the criticism to lose its power. This simple paradox can dramatically transform difficult conversations. Live Role-Playing Kevin and David demonstrate the Disarming Technique through several live role plays. David criticizes Kevin as being: Fake Inexperienced Pretending to know more than he really does Kevin practices agreeing with the truth in the criticism instead of defending himself. David then coaches Kevin to go even deeper—not by problem-solving or trying to improve himself immediately, but by becoming genuinely curious about the other person's experience. Later, the roles reverse, and Kevin criticizes David for being: Cranky Impatient Insensitive David demonstrates how quickly criticism melts away when someone responds with humility, openness, and genuine curiosity. These demonstrations beautifully illustrate why the Disarming Technique is often one of the hardest TEAM-CBT skills to master—and one of the most powerful. Why Resistance Matters Throughout the episode, David explains that resistance is not an obstacle to therapy. It's the doorway into effective therapy. Rather than pushing people toward change, TEAM-CBT first helps people understand why changing feels difficult. Once resistance melts away, motivation naturally appears. Enlightenment and the "Death of the Self" The conversation concludes with a reflection on one of David's favorite philosophical themes. Drawing from Buddhist psychology, David discusses how learning to accept criticism requires what he calls "the death of the self"—letting go of pride, defensiveness, and the constant need to protect one's ego. Rather than seeing criticism as an attack, we can learn to experience it as an opportunity for connection, growth, and deeper understanding. Resource Mentioned Dr. David Burns' Psychology Today article: Memorable Takeaways The biggest obstacle to change is often our resistance—not our symptoms. Therapy becomes far more effective when it focuses on one specific moment instead of broad labels. Defending yourself usually strengthens criticism; finding the truth in it often dissolves conflict. Humility builds stronger relationships than winning arguments. Learning to respond differently to criticism can transform not only your mood, but your career, your relationships, and your entire life. Whether you're a therapist, a parent, a leader, or simply someone who wants healthier relationships, this episode offers practical tools and inspiring hope that lasting change is possible—even after years of frustration and failure. Listener Survey We'd love to hear from you! Your feedback helps shape future episodes and allows us to create content that is as helpful and meaningful as possible. Please use this to take the feedback survey and share your thoughts with us about this episode. Your voice matters—and as David points out in this episode, sometimes the most important conversations begin when we're willing to express what we're really thinking and feeling. Thank you for listening to The Feeling Good Podcast! Contact Information Kevin Cornelius, LMFT is a Level 5 Certified Master TEAM-CBT Therapist and Trainer and the Clinical Director of Feeling Good Institute--Silicon Valley. He specializes in the treatment of trauma, anxiety, depression, relationship problems and insomnia. You can reach Kevin at [email protected] and visit his website at . You can reach Dr. Burns at [email protected]. Feeling down in these turbulent times? Take a ride on our . Feeling Great feels wonderful! You owe it to yourself to feel GREAT! Give the Greatest Gifts of ALL--Love and Happiness! /episode/index/show/feelinggood/id/42213855

515: Ask David-When Negative Thoughts Won't Stop 08/17/2026

515: Ask David-When Negative Thoughts Won't Stop Episode 515: Ask David Parenting Meltdowns, Real-Time TEAM-CBT, and When Negative Thoughts Won't Stop What do you do when your child has a public meltdown—and you feel your own frustration rising just as quickly? And what if your mind feels so overwhelmed with anxious or depressive thoughts that completing a Daily Mood Log seems impossible? In this Ask David episode, Dr. David Burns is joined by host Kevin Cornelius, LMFT, and Psychiatrist/TEAM-CBT therapist Dr. Matt May to answer two thoughtful listener questions that many parents and therapy enthusiasts will recognize. Together, they demonstrate TEAM-CBT techniques live, showing not only what to do, but how to think differently in the moment. Along the way, they explore why changing your relationship with your own thoughts is often more important than trying to control other people's behavior. In This Episode Question 1: How Do I Use TEAM-CBT in Real Time When My Child Has a Meltdown? A listener describes taking his two young sons to the driving range when one child suddenly wants to leave while the other wants to stay. As frustration mounts, so do the automatic thoughts: "He's being a brat." "He's too immature for this." "He's ungrateful and whines all the time." Although the listener can challenge these thoughts later using a Daily Mood Log, he wonders: How can I use TEAM-CBT in the middle of an emotionally charged parenting moment? David, Kevin, and Matt explore this question through several live demonstrations. Topics Include: Why self-compassion comes before effective parenting The danger of "should" statements directed at yourself How beating yourself up actually makes it harder to respond compassionately Why practice outside emotional moments prepares you for success inside emotional moments Accepting your own imperfections as a parent Matt demonstrates how to respond to his own inner critic using Externalization of Voices, replacing self-criticism with realistic self-acceptance instead of perfectionism. Challenging "Shoulds" About Other People The conversation then shifts to another common trap: Trying to make other people different than they are. Together they examine several automatic thoughts parents commonly experience: "He's being a brat." "He's too immature." "He's ungrateful." David helps Matt and Kevin identify the cognitive distortions hiding inside these thoughts, including: Labeling Hidden should statements Unrealistic expectations Blaming Rather than arguing intellectually, they demonstrate TEAM-CBT methods such as: Acceptance Paradox Self-Defense Counterattack Externalization of Voices The discussion highlights an important insight: Much of our emotional suffering comes not from other people's behavior—but from insisting they should be different than they are. Kevin shares a personal story about using the Feeling Great app's Paradoxical Magnification exercise to dissolve his own "should" statements about parenting through humor and acceptance. Question 2: What If My Mind Never Stops Producing Negative Thoughts? The second listener has struggled with depression and anxiety since adolescence. Although he believes in TEAM-CBT, he finds the Daily Mood Log overwhelming because his mind produces what feels like hundreds of negative thoughts every minute. His questions include: How long should I spend on a Daily Mood Log? Do I need to answer every negative thought? Why can't I create positive thoughts that actually feel believable? David's Advice Dr. Burns explains that: 10–20 minutes of Daily Mood Log work is usually enough. You do not need to answer every negative thought. Most automatic thoughts are simply variations of a handful of core beliefs. Consistent practice matters much more than perfection. Using his own recovery after recent surgery as an example, David reminds listeners that small, steady efforts often produce remarkable long-term change. Helpful TEAM-CBT Strategies Discussed Kevin describes how simply sitting down with the Daily Mood Log often quiets his racing mind and helps him focus on what truly matters. David recommends another powerful exercise: Negative Practice Instead of fighting racing thoughts: Schedule a few minutes. Record every negative thought without challenging them. Then listen back to the recording. Many people discover that simply hearing their thoughts aloud changes their relationship to them. Matt also emphasizes several uncovering techniques that help identify the deeper beliefs generating so many automatic thoughts, including: The What-If Technique Individual Downward Arrow Cost-Benefit Analysis Positive Reframing Rather than trying to "think positively," TEAM-CBT first helps eliminate the hidden resistance that makes positive thoughts difficult to believe. A Quick Speed Round Near the end of the episode, David introduces a new experiment: Rapid-fire Ask David answers. In just thirty seconds, he explains one of the central concepts from Feeling Great: The Four Deaths of the Self The death of the Special Self (depression) The death of the Fearful Self (anxiety) The death of the Angry, Blaming Self (relationship conflict) The death of the Entitled Pleasure-Seeking Self (habits and addictions) David explains that each "death" ultimately reveals something surprising: There was never anything essential to lose—only freedom to gain. Listener Feedback The team asks for your input: Would you rather hear: Longer, in-depth discussions of just a few questions? Faster "speed round" answers covering many listener questions? Let them know through this week's . Resources Mentioned by Dr. David Burns Memorable Takeaways Self-compassion is often the first step toward becoming the parent you want to be. Your emotional suffering usually comes from your thoughts—not from other people's behavior. You don't need to defeat every negative thought to feel dramatically better. Practice emotional skills when you're calm so they're available when emotions run high. Small, consistent Daily Mood Log work can create profound change over time. As always, thank you for listening to the Feeling Good Podcast. If you enjoyed this episode, please subscribe, leave a review, and send us your questions—you just might hear them discussed on a future Ask David episode. Contact Information You can reach Matt May, MD @ https://www.matthewmaymd.com Kevin Cornelius, LMFT is a Level 5 Certified Master TEAM-CBT Therapist and Trainer and the Clinical Director of Feeling Good Institute--Silicon Valley. He specializes in the treatment of trauma, anxiety, depression, relationship problems and insomnia. You can reach Kevin at [email protected] and visit his website at . You can reach Dr. Burns at [email protected]. Feeling down in these turbulent times? Take a ride on our . Feeling Great feels wonderful! You owe it to yourself to feel GREAT! Give the Greatest Gifts of ALL--Love and Happiness! /episode/index/show/feelinggood/id/42153915

514: Ask David w/ Dr. Matt May 08/10/2026

514: Ask David w/ Dr. Matt May 514: Ask David w/ Dr. Matt May Schizophrenia, Resistance, TEAM's Future, and What Makes a Great Therapist In this thought-provoking Ask David episode, Dr. David Burns is joined by Kevin Cornelius, LMFT, and special guest Dr. Matt May, psychiatrist, TEAM-CBT therapist, and longtime colleague of Dr. Burns. Together, they tackle challenging listener questions about schizophrenia, emotional suffering, resistance to change, therapist training, and the future of psychotherapy. Along the way, the conversation becomes deeply personal as David reflects on the qualities that shaped the development of TEAM-CBT, his hopes and concerns for the future of psychotherapy, and the lessons he's learned after decades of clinical work. Our Special Guest: Dr. Matt May Kevin welcomes Dr. Matt May back to the podcast. Matt is a psychiatrist trained at Stanford who has worked closely with David for more than twenty years. Although trained in psychiatry, Matt explains that his work today focuses almost entirely on TEAM-CBT rather than medication management. David praises Matt as one of the most gifted therapists he has ever known, highlighting his warmth, compassion, humility, and clinical expertise. Question #1: Can TEAM-CBT Help the Negative Symptoms of Schizophrenia? A listener asks whether TEAM-CBT can help with the so-called "three A's" of schizophrenia: Apathy Avolition (severe lack of motivation) Anhedonia (loss of pleasure) or whether medication is the primary treatment. David's Response David challenges the assumptions behind the question itself. Rather than viewing people through the lens of diagnostic labels and symptoms, he emphasizes that TEAM-CBT begins by asking: "What would you like help with?" He argues that therapists often fall into the trap of acting like experts who believe they already know what a patient needs based on a diagnosis. TEAM-CBT takes the opposite approach, focusing on the individual person's goals, struggles, and hopes. David shares an early experience treating a patient with schizophrenia. Initially, he tried to challenge the patient's delusional beliefs directly through cognitive techniques. When the patient simply reinterpreted the evidence to support the delusion, David realized he was pursuing his own agenda rather than the patient's. The lesson: TEAM-CBT focuses on helping people with the problems they want help with—not on treating diagnostic labels. Key Takeaways Diagnosis does not define the person. People with schizophrenia may still want help with relationships, mood, habits, goals, or self-esteem. Effective therapy begins with understanding what matters to the individual. Humility is often more helpful than expertise. Question #2: What About Trauma, Brain Circuits, and "Underlying Vulnerabilities"? A listener asks whether present-moment thoughts are only part of the picture and whether deeper emotional circuitry, stress physiology, or network-level brain changes also contribute to emotional suffering. The listener also wonders whether cognitive therapy truly processes emotions like grief, fear, shame, and anger—or merely suppresses them. Matt's Perspective Matt offers a practical example from his own life. One afternoon he found himself flooded with depressive thoughts and self-critical feelings. He suddenly felt hopeless, inadequate, and discouraged. Then he realized: He had skipped lunch and was extremely hungry. After eating, the negative thoughts disappeared. His point is that physical states matter. Sleep deprivation, poor nutrition, illness, intoxication, and other biological factors can influence how easily negative thoughts arise and how difficult they are to challenge. David's Perspective David distinguishes sharply between: Healthy negative emotions Distorted emotional suffering He revisits a story from his medical school years, describing the death of a beloved elderly patient whose family gathered around him during his final moments. Everyone cried. David cried too. But that sadness was not depression. The grief emerged naturally from loving thoughts and genuine loss. In contrast, depression is fueled by distorted thoughts such as: "I'm worthless." "I'm not good enough." "Things will never get better." TEAM-CBT seeks to eliminate distorted suffering while preserving healthy human emotions. Key Takeaways Healthy grief is not a disorder. TEAM-CBT does not suppress genuine emotions. Depression, anxiety, shame, and hopelessness often arise from distorted thoughts that can be transformed. Biological factors matter, but thoughts remain a powerful therapeutic target. Question #3: What's the Biggest Misunderstanding Therapists Have About TEAM-CBT? A listener asks: When teaching clinicians, what misunderstanding should be corrected first? The belief that resistance means the patient is difficult? Or the belief that techniques alone are enough? David's Answer David emphasizes that TEAM is a system: Testing → Empathy → Agenda Setting → Methods Many therapists focus immediately on techniques and interventions. But before methods can work: The therapist must develop genuine empathy. The therapist must uncover resistance to change. Without empathy, patients don't feel understood. Without addressing resistance, therapists often end up arguing with their patients. David explains that people usually have many good reasons not to change. TEAM-CBT helps bring those reasons into awareness and resolve them before attempting intervention. Matt's Answer Matt reflects on his own training with David. He recalls spending countless hours learning empathy and discovering how difficult it is not to jump in with advice, reassurance, or premature solutions. According to Matt: Most therapists are tempted to help too quickly. Many accidentally create resistance by pushing for change. Understanding resistance is often one of the most challenging skills to master. Kevin's Perspective Kevin notes that TEAM itself naturally provides the roadmap: First learn testing. Then learn empathy. Then learn agenda setting. Only afterward focus on methods. The sequence protects therapists from moving too quickly into problem-solving. Question #4: What Is the Future of TEAM-CBT? A listener named Vlad writes a heartfelt letter reflecting on the transition from Rhonda Barovsky's co-hosting role and asking: What is the future of TEAM-CBT? How might it evolve? What personal qualities allowed David to create such an influential therapeutic framework? David on the Future of TEAM David explains that much of his current work focuses on preserving and sharing TEAM-CBT for future generations. Examples include: Recorded therapy sessions Training materials His psychotherapy eBook Psychology Today articles The Feeling Good Podcast The Feeling Great app He hopes future therapists will continue refining, expanding, and improving the methods. At the same time, David expresses disappointment that many mental health professionals have shown limited interest in approaches that emphasize rapid, measurable change. He remains committed to the possibility that therapy can become far more effective than it is today. The Personal Qualities Behind TEAM-CBT Matt identifies several characteristics he believes contributed to David's success: Intense Curiosity David never accepted conventional wisdom simply because others believed it. He continually asked: "What actually works?" Intellectual Honesty David consistently measures outcomes and learns from failures rather than defending cherished theories. Humility Rather than seeing himself as the expert, David allows patients to become his teachers. Compassion According to Matt, David's genuine concern for human suffering gives life to the science. Grit and Persistence David spent decades refining techniques, collecting data, developing tools, and challenging accepted assumptions. Discussion of AI and the Future of Therapy The conversation also touches on the Feeling Great app and artificial intelligence. David explains that the app was designed to deliver many TEAM-CBT principles to people who might not otherwise have access to therapy. He remains hopeful that technology can help make effective treatment more widely available while preserving the human values at the heart of psychotherapy. Memorable Themes from This Episode People are more important than diagnoses. Healthy sadness is different from depression. Empathy comes before technique. Resistance is not a problem—it is information. Great therapists remain curious and humble. Real innovation begins with measuring outcomes. Compassion and science work best together. Resources Mentioned Listener Survey We'd love to hear from you! Your feedback helps shape future episodes and allows us to create content that is as helpful and meaningful as possible. Please use this to take the feedback survey and share your thoughts with us about this episode. Your voice matters—and as David points out in this episode, sometimes the most important conversations begin when we're willing to express what we're really thinking and feeling. Thank you for listening to The Feeling Good Podcast! Contact Information You can reach Matt May, MD @ https://www.matthewmaymd.com Kevin Cornelius, LMFT is a Level 5 Certified Master TEAM-CBT Therapist and Trainer and the Clinical Director of Feeling Good Institute--Silicon Valley. He specializes in the treatment of trauma, anxiety, depression, relationship problems and insomnia. You can reach Kevin at [email protected] and visit his website at . You can reach Dr. Burns at [email protected]. Feeling down in these turbulent times? Take a ride on our . Feeling Great feels wonderful! You owe it to yourself to feel GREAT! Give the Greatest Gifts of ALL--Love and Happiness! /episode/index/show/feelinggood/id/42109165

513 - Grandma's Snake Phobia 08/03/2026

513 - Grandma's Snake Phobia Grandma's Snake Phobia The Real Cause of Her Anxiety Hosts: Kevin Cornelius, LMFT Dr. David Burns What if anxiety isn't the problem? What if anxiety is actually a message? In this fascinating episode, Dr. David Burns and Kevin Cornelius explore one of the most intriguing concepts in TEAM-CBT: the Hidden Emotion Technique. Using the memorable case of "Grandma's Snake Phobia," David explains why some forms of anxiety persist despite cognitive techniques, exposure exercises, and logical reassurance—and how uncovering an unrecognized emotional truth can sometimes lead to astonishingly rapid recovery. David shares the story of an elderly woman who suddenly developed a crippling fear of snakes despite spending her entire life comfortably around them. While most therapists might have focused on treating the phobia itself, David suspected that the anxiety was serving another purpose entirely. As the conversation unfolds, listeners learn how anxiety can function as a symbolic message from the subconscious mind, drawing attention to feelings, needs, conflicts, or desires that have been pushed out of awareness. David also shares the remarkable story of the patient whose panic attacks and nausea at work led him to first discover the Hidden Emotion Technique, as well as a deeply personal story involving his own struggle with anxiety and professional conflict. Along the way, David and Kevin discuss why highly anxious people are often some of the kindest and most compassionate individuals, how "niceness" can sometimes fuel anxiety, and why learning to honor our feelings may be one of the most important steps toward recovery. In This Episode Why traditional cognitive and behavioral approaches sometimes only partially relieve anxiety The origins of the Hidden Emotion Technique The surprising connection between anxiety and excessive "niceness" Why anxiety may be a symbolic message rather than a malfunction The case of Grandma's sudden snake phobia How unspoken fears about aging and dependence fueled anxiety Why simply becoming aware of a hidden emotion is not enough The critical action step that completes the Hidden Emotion Technique The story of the young woman whose job was literally making her sick How suppressed dreams and unexpressed desires can trigger anxiety symptoms David's personal experience discovering a hidden source of anxiety in his own life The role of conflict avoidance, people-pleasing, and "emotophobia" Why the hidden emotion is almost always happening in the present—not buried in childhood How anxious symptoms often function as symbolic clues to what's really wrong Practical ways to begin exploring hidden emotions in your own life Key Insights from David "Anxiety is our subconscious mind trying to get our attention and tell us something important that our conscious minds can't seem to see." "The ultimate fear in anxiety is often the fear of your own feelings." "Only nice people develop anxiety disorders." "The hidden emotion isn't the fear itself. The fear is conscious. The hidden emotion is the feeling you believe you're not supposed to have." "Anxiety never comes out of the blue. It comes from our lives and our hearts." The Hidden Emotion Technique: Two Essential Steps Step 1: Discover the Hidden Emotion Identify the feeling, desire, conflict, or unmet need that has been pushed out of conscious awareness. Common examples include: Anger that feels unacceptable Unexpressed disappointment A desire you feel guilty about wanting Conflict you're avoiding A dream you've abandoned A need you're afraid to ask for Step 2: Take Action Recovery occurs when you: Express the avoided feeling honestly Address the underlying problem directly Have the difficult conversation you've been avoiding Honor the need or dream you've been neglecting As David emphasizes, insight alone rarely eliminates anxiety. The transformation occurs when awareness is followed by action. Why "Nice" People Often Struggle with Anxiety David describes a pattern he has observed repeatedly throughout his career: Many anxious individuals: Want everyone to be happy Avoid conflict at all costs Feel responsible for others' feelings Believe they should never feel angry Fear disappointing people Suppress their own needs and desires When these feelings remain hidden, anxiety can emerge as a signal that something important needs attention. Questions for Reflection Is there something important you're not telling someone? Are you avoiding a conflict because you don't want to upset anyone? Have you been ignoring a dream, desire, or need that matters deeply to you? Do your anxiety symptoms seem symbolic in any way? Is there a feeling you've decided you're "not supposed" to have? Resources Mentioned by David Burns by David Burns David's recent Psychology Today article, Listener Survey We'd love to hear from you! Your feedback helps shape future episodes and allows us to create content that is as helpful and meaningful as possible. Please use this to take the feedback survey and share your thoughts with us about this episode. Your voice matters—and as David points out in this episode, sometimes the most important conversations begin when we're willing to express what we're really thinking and feeling. Thank you for listening to The Feeling Good Podcast! Contact Information Kevin Cornelius, LMFT is a Level 5 Certified Master TEAM-CBT Therapist and Trainer and the Clinical Director of Feeling Good Institute--Silicon Valley. He specializes in the treatment of trauma, anxiety, depression, relationship problems and insomnia. You can reach Kevin at [email protected] and visit his website at . You can reach Dr. Burns at [email protected]. Feeling down in these turbulent times? Take a ride on our . Feeling Great feels wonderful! You owe it to yourself to feel GREAT! Give the Greatest Gifts of ALL--Love and Happiness! /episode/index/show/feelinggood/id/41936920

512: The Myth of Slow Healing 07/27/2026

512: The Myth of Slow Healing The Myth of Slow Healing Why Rapid Recovery Is Possible Featuring Dr. David Burns and Kevin Cornelius, LMFT Many people believe emotional healing takes months—or even years. Therapists are often trained to expect gradual progress, and patients may assume lasting change requires prolonged struggle. But what if that assumption is wrong? In this episode, Dr. David Burns challenges one of the most deeply entrenched beliefs in mental health: the idea that meaningful psychological recovery must happen slowly. Drawing from his recent Psychology Today article, The Myth of Slow Healing, Dr. Burns explains why rapid emotional change is not only possible—it may actually reflect how the human brain naturally works. Through powerful clinical stories, personal reflections, and decades of research, Dr. Burns describes how depression, anxiety, panic, shame, and hopelessness can sometimes disappear in a matter of minutes when people discover and challenge the distorted thoughts driving their suffering. What Inspired This Article? Dr. Burns begins by sharing a formative experience from his psychiatric residency in Philadelphia. As a young psychiatrist, he noticed something troubling: psychotherapy often seemed to continue indefinitely, yet measurable recovery was rarely discussed. Therapists relied heavily on intuition, but almost no one was systematically measuring whether patients were actually improving. A walk through Fairmount Park sparked an insight that would transform his career. Thinking about professional basketball players improving through constant feedback—seeing whether the ball goes through the hoop—he wondered: How can therapists improve if they never measure whether their sessions are helping? This question led him to become one of the earliest advocates for routine outcome measurement in psychotherapy, eventually helping shape the development of TEAM-CBT's session-by-session assessment system. The Importance of Measurement Dr. Burns discusses his early use of the Beck Depression Inventory and the surprising lessons it taught him. Again and again, he discovered that his assumptions about how patients felt were often wrong: Some patients appeared severely depressed but reported relatively mild symptoms. Others seemed cheerful and functional while scoring in the severe range. These experiences reinforced an important lesson: Therapists need data, not guesses. By measuring depression, anxiety, empathy, and therapeutic effectiveness during every session, therapists can receive the feedback necessary to improve their work and help patients more effectively. The Caveman Effect: Why the Brain Can Change Instantly One of the episode's most memorable concepts is what Dr. Burns calls the "Caveman Effect." Borrowing an illustration from neuroscientist Mark Noble, he describes a prehistoric human hearing a twig snap behind him at dusk. The caveman immediately thinks: "A tiger is behind me!" Instantly, fear surges. Then he turns around and discovers the sound came from his wife stepping on a branch. In that moment, his fear vanishes. Not gradually. Not over six months. Instantly. Dr. Burns argues that this illustrates a fundamental principle: Thoughts create emotions. When a frightening thought is believed, anxiety emerges. When that thought is no longer believed, anxiety disappears. This process can happen in seconds. Three Levels of "Shortness" Dr. Burns describes three different ways emotional healing can occur rapidly. 1. Therapy Can Be Brief Many patients experience dramatic improvements within a single two-hour session. Rather than expecting treatment to continue indefinitely, Dr. Burns often approaches therapy with the goal of achieving complete symptom remission as quickly as possible. 2. Breakthroughs Often Happen in Minutes Even within a session, the most important change frequently occurs during a short window—sometimes only a few minutes long. Once therapists identify the specific distorted thoughts maintaining the problem and apply an effective intervention, major shifts can happen quickly. 3. The Moment of Enlightenment The most dramatic change often occurs in a matter of seconds. This is the moment when someone suddenly sees: Their negative belief isn't true. They've been deceiving themselves. A different perspective is possible. When this realization occurs, emotions can shift almost instantly. Dr. Burns compares this experience to the caveman discovering there was never a tiger at all. Why People Resist the Idea of Rapid Recovery If rapid healing is possible, why do so many people reject the concept? Dr. Burns identifies several reasons: For Patients Many people have spent years struggling with depression or anxiety. The idea that change could happen quickly may sound unrealistic or even fraudulent. After repeated disappointments, hope itself can feel dangerous. For Therapists Rapid recovery also challenges many traditional assumptions about psychotherapy. It raises uncomfortable questions: Why aren't outcomes being measured? Why do some treatments continue for years without substantial change? What happens to a therapist's business model when patients recover quickly? Dr. Burns and Kevin discuss how financial incentives can sometimes unintentionally reinforce longer treatments, even when faster recovery may be possible. The Story of Terry: Ten Years of Panic Gone in One Session One of the episode's most powerful moments is Dr. Burns' retelling of Terry's story. Terry suffered from: Severe depression Crippling panic attacks Nearly ten years of unsuccessful treatment Her symptoms were extreme, with depression and anxiety scores among the highest Dr. Burns had ever seen. The key breakthrough came when he identified the specific thought driving her panic: "I'm about to have a heart attack." Using an experimental technique, Dr. Burns intentionally helped Terry induce panic symptoms in session. Then he challenged her catastrophic belief through direct experience. If she were truly having a heart attack: Could she jog in place? Could she exercise vigorously? Could she do jumping jacks? As Terry performed increasingly strenuous activity, she suddenly realized the absurdity of her belief. Then came the breakthrough moment. She laughed. The fear disappeared. And a decade of panic ended. The episode emphasizes that it was not the jumping jacks themselves that created recovery. It was the moment she stopped believing the distorted thought. Why Thoughts Matter Dr. Burns revisits three core principles of cognitive therapy: Principle 1 Your emotions result from your thoughts—not directly from events. Principle 2 The thoughts creating depression and anxiety are typically distorted. Common distortions include: All-or-nothing thinking Fortune telling Emotional reasoning Mind reading Self-blame Principle 3 The moment you stop believing a distorted thought, your emotions will change. This principle remains central to TEAM-CBT and forms the foundation for many rapid recoveries. Beyond Cognition: The Role of Motivation Later in the discussion, Dr. Burns explains that distorted thoughts are only part of the story. Another critical factor is motivation. People often have powerful reasons for holding onto painful feelings. Depression, anxiety, anger, guilt, and shame frequently reflect important personal values. For example: Perfectionism may reflect high standards. Guilt may reflect a strong conscience. Anxiety may reflect caring deeply about others. Rather than arguing patients out of their symptoms, TEAM-CBT often begins by exploring what those symptoms reveal about the person's strengths and values. Benny's Story: The Power of Acceptance To illustrate this paradoxical approach, Dr. Burns shares the story of Benny. Benny was: Suicidal Violent Deeply depressed Involved in gangs, drugs, and crime Rather than confronting Benny's hopelessness, Dr. Burns did something unexpected. He explored all the advantages of believing: "I'm a hopeless case." Together they listed the benefits: Status Power Money Protection Identity For the first time, Benny felt understood rather than judged. Then his defenses collapsed. He revealed a lifetime of hidden pain, including witnessing his grandfather's suicide and struggling with illiteracy. The story illustrates a central paradox of TEAM-CBT: People often change only after they feel completely accepted exactly as they are. What Dr. Burns Has Learned About Human Nature After decades of witnessing rapid recovery, Dr. Burns says one conclusion feels increasingly clear: Thoughts create emotions. Yet he also emphasizes a deeper question: Why do some people generate so many painful thoughts in the first place? His answer increasingly involves: Core values Motivation Human meaning Personal strengths that become exaggerated Understanding both cognition and motivation has become essential to creating lasting change. Key Takeaways Emotional healing does not require months or years. The brain is capable of extraordinarily rapid change. Thoughts—not events themselves—create emotions. Distorted thoughts fuel depression and anxiety. When distorted thoughts lose their credibility, emotions often change immediately. Measurement and feedback are critical to effective therapy. Motivation and personal values play a major role in emotional suffering. Acceptance often creates more change than persuasion. Recovery can happen much faster than most people realize. Resources Mentioned by David D. Burns The Psychology Today article: T Coming Next Episode Dr. Burns and Kevin continue the conversation with a fascinating discussion of: "Grandma's Snake Phobia: The Real Cause of Her Anxiety" You'll learn about the Hidden Emotion Model and discover why the apparent cause of anxiety is sometimes very different from the true cause. We'd Love Your Feedback Your feedback helps shape future episodes. Please take a moment to complete the brief listener survey linked . It takes less than two minutes and provides invaluable guidance for improving the podcast and helping more people learn these powerful tools for recovery. Contact Information Kevin Cornelius, LMFT is a Level 5 Certified Master TEAM-CBT Therapist and Trainer and the Clinical Director of Feeling Good Institute--Silicon Valley. He specializes in the treatment of trauma, anxiety, depression, relationship problems and insomnia. You can reach Kevin at [email protected] and visit his website at . You can reach Dr. Burns at [email protected]. Feeling down in these turbulent times? Take a ride on our . Feeling Great feels wonderful! You owe it to yourself to feel GREAT! Give the Greatest Gifts of ALL--Love and Happiness! /episode/index/show/feelinggood/id/41634570

511: Shame Attacking: Overcoming a Lifetime of Social Anxiety 07/20/2026

511: Shame Attacking: Overcoming a Lifetime of Social Anxiety Shame Attacking: A Surprising Cure for Social Anxiety Hosts: Kevin Cornelius, LMFT Dr. David Burns Episode Summary Many people believe social anxiety is caused by low self-esteem, poor social skills, or awkwardness. But what if the real culprit is shame? In this episode, Dr. David Burns and Kevin Cornelius explore one of the most powerful—and unconventional—tools for overcoming social anxiety: Shame Attacking Exercises. Drawing from Dr. Burns' recent Psychology Today article, Shame Attacking: Overcoming a Lifetime of Social Anxiety, they tell the remarkable story of Martin, a handsome young man whose intense shame about excessive sweating had left him isolated and unable to connect with others. Through a series of courageous shame-attacking exercises, Martin discovered something life-changing: the world was far kinder and less judgmental than he imagined. Along the way, David shares how he first learned shame-attacking exercises from followers of psychologist Albert Ellis and describes his own unforgettable experience of asking strangers in a crowded New York restaurant if he could sample their food. The episode highlights how bringing our perceived flaws into the open often causes shame to evaporate—much like a vampire exposed to sunlight. In This Episode The Origins of Shame Attacking Exercises David's introduction to Albert Ellis's famous technique Why therapists should never ask patients to do something they wouldn't do themselves The surprising results of David's first shame-attacking exercise in a crowded Chinese restaurant Martin's Story A young man whose fear of sweating kept him trapped in loneliness How shame—not sweating—was the real problem A therapy session unlike any other: jogging through Philadelphia, getting intentionally soaked, and publicly announcing his "flaw" What Happened When Martin Stopped Hiding Why strangers responded with warmth instead of ridicule How exposing his greatest fear challenged years of distorted beliefs The unexpected encounter that changed his social life forever Shame Is Like a Vampire David introduces a memorable metaphor: Shame survives in darkness and secrecy. When exposed to the light, it shrivels up and dies. The discussion explores how openly acknowledging our imperfections can dramatically reduce anxiety and self-consciousness. The Hidden Cost of Taking Ourselves Too Seriously David and Kevin discuss: Why humor can be a powerful antidote to social anxiety The value of becoming more playful and less self-focused How social anxiety often convinces us that everyone is watching and judging us when they're usually not Guidelines for Shame Attacking Exercises David emphasizes that shame-attacking exercises are powerful but should be used thoughtfully. Some important principles include: Be Respectful Exercises should never disrupt places where people deserve peace and privacy, such as hospitals, churches, or synagogues. Be Playful, Not Aggressive The goal is to laugh at yourself, not make others uncomfortable or upset. Don't Wait Until You're Ready The breakthrough often comes when you act despite feeling anxious. Therapists Must Lead by Example If therapists want patients to challenge shame, they should be willing to challenge their own shame as well. Memorable Takeaways The problem is rarely the flaw itself—it's the hiding. Most people are far less judgmental than we imagine. Courage grows through action, not waiting for fear to disappear. Humor and playfulness can dissolve shame. Vulnerability often creates connection rather than rejection. The world may be much friendlier than your anxiety predicts. Featured Article This episode is based on Dr. David Burns' Psychology Today article: The article explores Martin's story in greater detail and illustrates how shame-attacking exercises can transform social anxiety by challenging both self-criticism and fears of rejection. We'd Love Your Feedback As with TEAM-CBT therapy, feedback helps us improve. Please take a few minutes to complete the episode feedback survey . Your responses help us create better episodes and continue exploring the topics that matter most to you. Until next time, remember: the things you're most afraid to reveal about yourself may be the very things that set you free. Contact Information Kevin Cornelius, LMFT is a Level 5 Certified Master TEAM-CBT Therapist and Trainer and the Clinical Director of Feeling Good Institute--Silicon Valley. He specializes in the treatment of trauma, anxiety, depression, relationship problems and insomnia. You can reach Kevin at [email protected] and visit his website at . You can reach Dr. Burns at [email protected]. Feeling down in these turbulent times? Take a ride on our . Feeling Great feels wonderful! You owe it to yourself to feel GREAT! Give the Greatest Gifts of ALL--Love and Happiness! /episode/index/show/feelinggood/id/41482255

510-Conquering Social Anxiety: The Courage to Reach Out 07/13/2026

510-Conquering Social Anxiety: The Courage to Reach Out Conquering Social Anxiety: The Courage to Reach Out Hosts: Kevin Cornelius, LMFT Dr. David Burns In this deeply moving episode, Dr. David Burns and Kevin Cornelius explore one of the most painful and misunderstood forms of anxiety: social anxiety. David shares a remarkable true story about a wealthy and highly successful businessman whose severe social anxiety left him feeling isolated, ashamed, and unable to connect even with his own family. Despite his power, wealth, and accomplishments, he secretly believed there was something deeply wrong with him because he felt anxious around people. Through an unforgettable exposure exercise involving radical self-disclosure on a public train, David illustrates how shame loses its power when it is brought into the open—and how genuine human connection can emerge when we stop hiding our perceived flaws. This episode explores: Why shame—not low self-esteem—is often at the core of social anxiety How secrecy fuels anxiety and emotional suffering The healing power of vulnerability and authenticity Why exposure exercises can create rapid breakthroughs How therapists can unintentionally reinforce hopelessness The difference between treating a diagnosis and treating a human being The surprising warmth and compassion people often receive when they stop pretending to be “special” David and Kevin also discuss: Why TEAM-CBT is never a “cookie-cutter” approach The importance of courage in overcoming fear “Reverse hypnosis” and how anxious thoughts persuade people they are incapable Why meaningful change often requires stepping directly into discomfort How human connection—not status or achievement—creates joy One especially memorable takeaway from the episode:“When I give up my need to be special, then life can be special.” Key Themes Social Anxiety Shame and Vulnerability Exposure Therapy TEAM-CBT Self-Disclosure Human Connection Courage and Emotional Healing Memorable Moments David describing the businessman arriving at a modest hospital in a limousine with bodyguards The patient’s emotional transformation after talking openly with strangers The realization that most people respond with kindness rather than judgment David’s reflection that “magic is available to most of us most of the time” Kevin’s observation that the patient “had everything—and yet nothing” About the Next Episode Next week, David and Kevin explore another powerful treatment for social anxiety inspired by Albert Ellis: Shame Attacking Exercises—a bold and often life-changing approach to overcoming fear of judgment. Resources Mentioned Let Us Know What You Think of This Episode Please use this to take a very brief survey and share your opinion with us about this episode Contact Information Kevin Cornelius, LMFT is a Level 5 Certified Master TEAM-CBT Therapist and Trainer and the Clinical Director of Feeling Good Institute--Silicon Valley. He specializes in the treatment of trauma, anxiety, depression, relationship problems and insomnia. You can reach Kevin at [email protected] and visit his website at . You can reach Dr. Burns at [email protected]. Feeling down in these turbulent times? Take a ride on our . Feeling Great feels wonderful! You owe it to yourself to feel GREAT! Give the Greatest Gifts of ALL--Love and Happiness! /episode/index/show/feelinggood/id/41479550

509: When Trauma Still Hurts: Memory Rescripting 07/06/2026

509: When Trauma Still Hurts: Memory Rescripting When Trauma Still Hurts: Memory Rescripting Hosts: Kevin Cornelius, LMFT Dr. David Burns Content Note This episode includes discussion of trauma, including sexual abuse and violence, which may be distressing for some listeners. What Is Memory Rescripting? Memory rescripting is a therapeutic technique that helps people transform how they experience painful memories. Instead of simply revisiting trauma, clients: Re-enter the memory vividly (often with eyes closed) Experience the emotions fully Then actively change the outcome of the scene The key idea:Many trauma victims, see themselves, still, as the helpless little child, the victim, and every time they re-experience the trauma, they re-enforced those brain circuits. Memory Rescripting allows patients to establish new brain circuits and new ways of seeing themselves. Clients often: Step into the scene as a powerful adult self Protect their younger self Confront or stop the perpetrator Create a new, empowering ending A Powerful Case Example David shares a striking case of a young woman struggling with: Severe anxiety Agoraphobia (fear of leaving home, especially public transportation) What wasn’t working: Cognitive therapy helped overall mood But she refused exposure to public transportation Breakthrough moment: She revealed a childhood trauma: A babysitter repeatedly sexually abused her The Memory Rescripting Process During a guided session: She vividly re-experienced the traumatic memory At peak emotional intensity, she: Entered the scene as a strong adult Physically stopped the perpetrator (in imagination) Enacted intense revenge fantasies She continued reshaping the scene until: She felt relief and empowerment Surprising Outcome After the session: She voluntarily booked a solo international flight Completed 21 hours of travel alone Reported: Zero anxiety Ability to neutralize fear using spontaneous rescripting She ended therapy shortly after—fully recovered from her presenting issue Key Insight Memory rescripting may work by: Shifting identity: From helpless victim → powerful protector Allowing expression of: Suppressed anger Emotional truth Rewriting emotional memory—not just recalling it Important Caveat This technique is not for everyone David notes: He has used it rarely in decades of practice Most patients improve with standard cognitive and exposure methods Relapse Prevention for Anxiety A crucial takeaway: Recovery is maintained through continued exposure—not avoidance. Key principles: Face your fears regularly Don’t become complacent If fear returns: It does not mean failure It means it’s time to re-engage the tools Normalizing Setbacks Negative thoughts and feelings will return at times This is part of being human—not a sign something is wrong You can reuse the same tools that worked before Core Takeaways 1. Thoughts create feelings Changing distorted thoughts can eliminate emotional suffering. 2. There is no one-size-fits-all method Different techniques work for different people. 3. Don’t give in to hopelessness Even long-standing anxiety can be overcome. 4. Avoid rigid “schools” of therapy Flexibility and multiple tools are key. 5. Memory Rescripting is one powerful method that could help When the patient rewrites the script on a traumatic memory, new brain circuits are created and the patient is freed from the pain of the traumatic event. “100% vs 200% Cure” 100% Cure: Fear disappears completely 200% Cure: You come to enjoy what you once feared Resources Mentioned by Dr. David Burns by Dr. David Burns by Dr. David Burns Feeling Great App (free at www.feelinggreat.com) Let Us Know What You Think of This Episode Please use this to take a very brief survey and share your opinion with us about this episode Contact Information Kevin Cornelius, LMFT is a Level 5 Certified Master TEAM-CBT Therapist and Trainer and the Clinical Director of Feeling Good Institute--Silicon Valley. He specializes in the treatment of trauma, anxiety, depression, relationship problems and insomnia. You can reach Kevin at [email protected] and visit his website at . You can reach Dr. Burns at [email protected]. Feeling down in these turbulent times? Take a ride on our . Feeling Great feels wonderful! You owe it to yourself to feel GREAT! Give the Greatest Gifts of ALL--Love and Happiness! /episode/index/show/feelinggood/id/41419405

508: A New Model for Treating Trauma 06/29/2026

508: A New Model for Treating Trauma A New Model for Treating Trauma Do You Need to Revisit the Past to Heal Trauma? Episode Overview In this episode, David and Kevin explore a provocative idea: healing from trauma may not require revisiting the past at all. Drawing from decades of clinical experience and data-driven research, David challenges a core assumption in trauma therapy and explains why focusing on the present moment can lead to rapid and lasting change. Key Takeaways A Radical Shift in Trauma Treatment Traditional approaches often emphasize revisiting and “processing” past trauma. David argues that this may be unnecessary—and sometimes counterproductive. His clinical experience suggests trauma can often be resolved in a single session by focusing on current thoughts and feelings. The Power of the Present Moment Patients consistently want help with what’s bothering them right now, not necessarily past events. Changing how someone feels in the present can dissolve the emotional impact of past trauma. “The past is embedded in the present”—shift the present, and the past loses its grip. The Cognitive Model at Work Emotional suffering is driven not by events, but by thoughts about those events. When distorted thoughts are identified and challenged, emotional distress can rapidly disappear. This applies to trauma, depression, anxiety, and more. Data-Driven Insights Statistical modeling of patient data revealed that past emotional history does not predict recovery. In fact, including past data made predictive models less effective. Present-moment variables fully explained improvement. Powerful Clinical Stories Anne’s Story (Terminal Cancer Diagnosis) Faced with a devastating diagnosis, Anne experienced severe depression. In a single session, her distorted thoughts (self-blame, guilt) were challenged. Her depression dropped from severe to zero—and did not return over the next two years. Trauma Workshop Demonstrations Across dozens of live demonstrations, participants with severe trauma experienced complete symptom relief within hours. Most work focused on present concerns—not revisiting traumatic memories. Latvian Survivor’s Story A woman who survived Nazi-era trauma attempted suicide decades later. Her distress was tied not to past trauma, but to a belief: “I am worthless.” Challenging that thought led to rapid recovery. Key Concepts Healthy vs. Unhealthy Negative Emotions Healthy: sadness, grief, concern Unhealthy: shame, guilt, worthlessness Therapy aims to eliminate distorted, self-defeating emotions, not natural human feelings. Exposure Therapy—Used Selectively Exposure can be powerful, especially for anxiety. However, it’s often not necessary for trauma recovery. David reports using it rarely in trauma cases. No One-Size-Fits-All Approach Effective therapy requires a toolbox of techniques, not rigid adherence to one method. TEAM-CBT emphasizes flexibility and rapid testing of what works. Practical Tools for Listeners Daily Mood Log: Identify and challenge negative thoughts in real time Cognitive Techniques: Learn to “crush” distorted thinking patterns Self-Help Resources: by Dr. David Burns Dr. David Burns Dr. David Burns : Free tool to practice these methods interactively Memorable Quote “The moment you stop believing a distorted thought is the moment your negative feelings disappear.” Final Thoughts This episode offers a hopeful and empowering message: You may not need to relive your past to heal from it. By changing how you think and feel today, meaningful recovery can happen faster than you might expect. What’s Coming Next Next episode: A deeper dive into trauma treatment using memory rescripting, including when revisiting the past can be helpful. Thanks for listening—see you next time! Let Us Know What You Think of This Episode Please use this to take a very brief survey and share your opinion with us about this episode Contact Information Kevin Cornelius, LMFT is a Level 5 Certified Master TEAM-CBT Therapist and Trainer and the Clinical Director of Feeling Good Institute--Silicon Valley. He specializes in the treatment of trauma, anxiety, depression, relationship problems and insomnia. You can reach Kevin at [email protected] and visit his website at www.tools4change.me. You can reach Dr. Burns at [email protected]. Feeling down in these turbulent times? Take a ride on our . Feeling Great feels wonderful! You owe it to yourself to feel GREAT! Give the Greatest Gifts of ALL--Love and Happiness! /episode/index/show/feelinggood/id/41405255

507: Mastering the Daily Mood Log 06/22/2026

507: Mastering the Daily Mood Log Mastering the Daily Mood Log Small Details, Life-Changing Results Episode Summary might seem simple—even boring—but its impact can be profound. In this episode, David and Kevin break down how to use this powerful CBT tool effectively, highlighting the most common mistakes people make and how to avoid them. They explain why focusing on a single specific moment is the key to emotional transformation, how to accurately identify feelings, and how to uncover the exact thoughts driving distress. This practical deep dive shows how small shifts in technique can lead to dramatic improvements in mood, confidence, and even what David calls “enlightenment.” Step 1: Upsetting Event / Moment Identify one specific moment in time (not a general problem). Include details: Where were you? Who was there? What exactly happened? Common Mistakes: ❌ Being too vague: “My life is a mess” ❌ Writing thoughts instead of events: “I’m not good enough” ❌ Describing ongoing situations instead of a moment Example: ✔️ “At 3pm today, my boss criticized my report in a meeting.” Step 2: Emotions Circle or list all emotions you felt Rate each from 0–100% intensity Examples: Sad / Down – 60% Anxious / Nervous – 70% Ashamed – 50% Common Mistakes: ❌ Skipping this step ❌ Not rating intensity ❌ Thinking feelings can’t be measured Why It Matters: Helps track progress Improves emotional awareness Increases accuracy and empathy Step 3: Negative Thoughts Write short, specific thoughts (1 sentence each) Focus on what you were telling yourself Examples: “I’m a failure.” “There’s something wrong with me.” “I’ll never succeed.” Common Mistakes: ❌ Writing long paragraphs ❌ Including events (“She rejected me”) ❌ Including feelings (“I feel terrible”) ❌ Writing questions (“Why am I like this?” → convert to statement) Tip: Work through emotions one at a time: “What thought caused my sadness?” “What thought caused my anxiety?” Step 4: Positive Thoughts Generate thoughts that: ✅ Are 100% true ✅ Reduce belief in the negative thought Examples: “I made a mistake in that meeting, but that doesn’t define my entire ability.” “One criticism doesn’t mean I’m a failure.” Common Mistakes: ❌ Cheerleading (“I’m awesome no matter what”) ❌ Irrelevant truths (“At least I can cook”) ❌ Statements you don’t fully believe Key Insight: Truth alone isn’t enough—it must directly challenge the negative belief. Step 5: Re-evaluate Belief in Negative Thought After generating positive thoughts, re-rate how much you believe the original thought Example: “I’m a failure” Before: 90% After: 0% Goal: Reduce belief as much as possible (ideally close to 0%) Why It Matters: Emotional change happens when belief in negative thoughts decreases The greater the reduction, the greater the relief Core Principle Change one moment → understand the pattern → apply it everywhere. Memorable Quotes “We’re not fishing for small improvements—we’re going after the big fish.” “I can’t help you with your whole life, but I can help you with one moment.” “The truth—not positive thinking—is what sets you free.” “Without measuring feelings, therapists are mostly guessing.” Practical Exercise Try this today: () Write down one upsetting moment Rate your feelings (0–100%) List 3–5 short negative thoughts Challenge one thought with a 100% true alternative Who This Episode Is For Therapists using CBT or TEAM-CBT Anyone struggling with anxiety, depression, or self-doubt Listeners who want practical, structured tools for change Connect & Learn More Explore more tools and resources at If you enjoyed this episode, please consider subscribing, sharing the podcast, or leaving a review. It helps more people discover tools for overcoming depression and anxiety. Let Us Know What You Think of This Episode Please use this to take a very brief survey and share your opinion with us about this episode Contact Information Kevin Cornelius, LMFT is a Level 5 Certified Master TEAM-CBT Therapist and Trainer and the Clinical Director of Feeling Good Institute--Silicon Valley. He specializes in the treatment of trauma, anxiety, depression, relationship problems and insomnia. You can reach Kevin at [email protected] and visit his website at . You can reach Dr. Burns at . Feeling down in these turbulent times? Take a ride on our . Feeling Great feels wonderful! You owe it to yourself to feel GREAT! Give the Greatest Gifts of ALL--Love and Happiness! /episode/index/show/feelinggood/id/41405165

506: Live Work with Ruben Part 2 of 2 06/15/2026

505: Live Work with Ruben: Part 1 of 2 06/08/2026

505: Live Work with Ruben: Part 1 of 2 Live Work with Ruben: Part 1 of 2 Working with Performance Anxiety in Real Time Hosts: Kevin Cornelius, LMFT Dr. David Burns Guests: Dr. Jill Levitt Ruben Land In this live work from a recent Tuesday Group, we had the opportunity to work with Ruben, a highly capable and thoughtful clinician, who brought a struggle that many therapists quietly share: intense performance anxiety in evaluative situations, especially in the presence of authority figures or people he deeply admires. What made this work especially powerful is that Ruben was actively experiencing anxiety in the moment, allowing us to “get in the car with him” rather than talk about the problem abstractly. We began, as always in TEAM-CBT, with Testing. Ruben had completed a Brief Mood Survey, which showed relatively low baseline symptoms—just mild anxiety and minimal depression or anger. However, when we reviewed his Daily Mood Log, anchored to a specific situation (leading a group under supervision), we saw a very different picture: anxiety at 70%, feelings of inferiority and defectiveness at 80%, embarrassment at 70%. This contrast highlights a core principle: symptoms are often situational and state-dependent, and without anchoring in a specific moment, we risk missing the true intensity of the problem. From there, we moved into Empathy, where Jill did a beautiful job modeling the Five Secrets of Effective Communication. She captured Ruben’s internal experience with precision: the pressure to perform, the fear of saying the wrong thing, the spiral of anxiety leading to cognitive blanking, and the secondary anxiety about appearing anxious. She also identified both the internal loop (“I’m anxious about being anxious”) and the interpersonal fears (“they’ll think I’m a fraud,” “I’m wasting their time”). David complemented this with curiosity and gentle inquiry, helping to deepen the conceptualization without getting lost in theory. Importantly, we conducted an empathy check, asking Ruben to grade us on thought empathy, feeling empathy, and warmth. He gave A+ ratings across the board, with a slight adjustment on thought empathy when he introduced an additional element: a compulsive need to check and recheck, suggesting a subtle OCD-like process. This moment is critical—without the empathy check, we would have missed an important maintaining factor. Only after strong empathy did we move into Agenda Setting, which is often the most counterintuitive and transformative part of TEAM-CBT. David began with the Invitation, asking whether Ruben wanted help or more support. Ruben was ready to “roll up his sleeves,” which is essential—no imposed agenda. Then we used the Miracle Question to clarify goals: Ruben wanted to feel less anxious, maintain fluency, and stay present in high-stakes situations. Next came the Magic Button, targeting outcome resistance. When asked if he would eliminate all his negative feelings, Ruben said no—he wanted to keep some anxiety. This is exactly what we hope for. It opens the door to Positive Reframing, where we honor the symptoms rather than pathologize them. Together, we identified numerous positive values and benefits of his anxiety and self-doubt: Anxiety motivates preparation and effort It enhances connection through vulnerability It reflects caring deeply about others and their time Feelings of inadequacy keep him humble and growth-oriented Fear of judgment protects him and signals high standards Even the thought “I might be a fraud” reflects a desire to be authentic and competent At one point, Ruben articulated that his anxiety shows he values others and wants to contribute meaningfully—this is a profound reframe. Jill and David reinforced these insights, helping him see that his “symptoms” are actually expressions of his values system in action. We also explored a key factor: his anxiety is amplified in performative, evaluative contexts, especially with authority figures, and is less intense in vulnerable, non-evaluative settings. This distinction is clinically crucial and guides both conceptualization and intervention. Another powerful moment came when Ruben acknowledged that self-disclosure reduces his anxiety, supporting the idea that “shame requires secrecy.” When he hides his anxiety, it intensifies; when he shares it, it softens. This is both a therapeutic tool and a treatment target. After thoroughly addressing resistance, we moved into Goal Setting, asking Ruben not what he wants to eliminate, but what he wants to dial down. This is a hallmark of TEAM: Anxiety: 70 → 30 Shame: 30 → 20 Inadequacy: 80 → 30 Embarrassment: 70 → 20 We then transitioned into Methods, targeting the thought: “My speech is too slow, and I sound foolish, ignorant, and boring.” Jill began with a classic but essential step: identify the distortions. Ruben quickly identified all-or-nothing thinking, overgeneralization, mental filter, discounting positives, mind reading, fortune telling, labeling, self-blame, and hidden “shoulds.” This is an important teaching point: when a thought contains nearly all distortions, it’s not a problem—it’s a goldmine. From there, rather than staying intellectual, we offered multiple method pathways—Externalization of Voices, Feared Fantasy, Be Specific, and Double Standard—modeling flexibility and collaboration. Ruben chose Externalization of Voices, which became the central method. David stepped in as the Negative Ruben, delivering the attack clearly and forcefully. This is essential—the more vivid the critic, the more powerful the response. Ruben responded using a blend of acceptance (“it’s true I sometimes pause”), self-defense, and realism (some people may not like it, and that’s okay). He won “big,” but not “huge,” which is a key TEAM moment—we don’t settle for partial wins. They then moved into role reversal, and this is where things deepened. When Ruben played the critic and David responded, David modeled a powerful combination of self-acceptance, counterattack, and refusal to buy into the critic’s frame. He highlighted that the real problem wasn’t slow speech—it was the constant inner criticism. Ruben immediately recognized this as a “huge” win. Ruben then practiced again, this time integrating acceptance, values (“my heart is in the right place”), and counterattack (“the bigger problem is your nagging voice”). This time it felt huge. Next, they targeted a different thought: “If I screw up, David will be disgusted and see I’m a worthless, selfish fraud.” This brought up more anxiety, and Ruben got stuck. Jill did something very important here—she paused the method and returned to empathy, naming the pressure to “do it right” and the performance anxiety happening inside the exercise itself. After empathy, they resumed. Jill modeled a powerful response in role reversal that included radical acceptance of imperfection (“I expect to screw up”), a growth mindset (“that’s why I collect feedback”), and a reframe of failure as essential to learning. She also gently challenged the distortion of David as a harsh authority figure and emphasized choosing supportive learning environments. Ruben then extended this insight even further, saying, “the more I fail, the better… the more vulnerable I am, the less I appear like a fraud.” This was a genuine shift. They then moved into Feared Fantasy, with David playing “David from Hell,” saying things like “you’re incompetent,” “you’re worthless,” and “you should find another profession.” Ruben responded by using Be Specific, asking what exactly he had done wrong. When the answer became “you paused,” the entire structure of the criticism collapsed. Ruben saw the absurdity and described the experience as a weight lifting. This is a classic TEAM moment—when global, harsh judgments are reduced to specific, manageable behaviors, they lose their power. They extended this further with the thought “I’m wasting people’s time.” Through additional role plays, Ruben practiced self-defense and purpose clarification, David used humor and counterattack, and Jill demonstrated Be Specific in a very precise way—asking exactly how long a pause should be, exposing the irrationality of the standard. The work then expanded to include the group. Participants used Externalization of Voices to challenge Ruben’s thoughts, and Ruben responded with increasing strength and clarity, using self-acceptance and reversal of beliefs (for example, recognizing that vulnerability actually increases connection). David then introduced the Survey Technique, asking Ruben to directly check his assumptions with the group. The responses were striking—people reported never noticing pauses, experiencing him as thoughtful and engaging, and feeling more connected because of his style. This directly disconfirmed his mind reading and labeling. At the end, they returned to Testing. Anxiety went from 70 to 0, shame from 30 to 0, inadequacy from 80 to 10, embarrassment from 70 to 0, rejection from 40 to 0, and frustration from 30 to 0. Ruben reported that the change felt real and that his belief in the negative thoughts had dropped dramatically. When asked what created the breakthrough, Ruben identified two key moments. First, a deep emotional realization that the goal is actually to make mistakes—that failure is not something to avoid but something to embrace. Second, a shift in how he saw authority figures—recognizing that the perceived gap between himself and others was distorted. As that sense of separation dissolved, so did much of the anxiety. David highlighted that much of our suffering comes from that artificial separation—seeing others as powerful and ourselves as deficient. Jill added an important layer: when we assume others are harsh, judgmental, and critical, we are also distorting them, not just ourselves. Some key clinical takeaways: Externalization of Voices becomes especially powerful when it includes emotion, repetition, and role reversal. Feared Fantasy works best when the criticism becomes specific and even a bit absurd. The Survey Technique is extremely effective for dismantling mind-reading. And often, breakthrough comes when patients fully embrace failure and let go of perfectionism. Let Us Know What You Think of This Episode Please use this to take a very brief survey and share your opinion with us about this episode Contact Information You can reach Jill Levitt, PhD Jill Levitt <[email protected]>. Jill is cofounder and Director of Clinical Training at The Feeling Good Institute (www.feelinggoodinstitute.com) in Mountain View, California. Ruben Land is an Associate Social Worker at Feeling Good Institute. He provides psychotherapy, using TEAM-CBT, and is available to work with clients in California. You can reach Ruben at [email protected] and visit him online at this . Kevin Cornelius, LMFT is a Level 5 Certified Master TEAM-CBT Therapist and Trainer and the Clinical Director of Feeling Good Institute--Silicon Valley. He specializes in the treatment of trauma, anxiety, depression, relationship problems and insomnia. You can reach Kevin at [email protected] and visit his website at You can reach Dr. Burns at . Feeling down in these turbulent times? Take a ride on . Feeling Great feels wonderful! You owe it to yourself to feel GREAT! Give the Greatest Gifts of ALL--Love and Happiness! /episode/index/show/feelinggood/id/41404820

504: The Moment You’re in Matters More Than the One You Remember 06/01/2026

504: The Moment You’re in Matters More Than the One You Remember The Moment You’re in Matters More Than the One You Remember You Can Recover from Trauma by Focusing on the Present Hosts:Kevin Cornelius, LMFT Dr. David Burns Episode Overview In this powerful episode, Dr. David Burns shares transformative insights from decades of clinical experience treating depression and trauma. Through compelling real-life stories, he challenges the traditional belief that healing requires deep exploration of the past. Instead, he reveals that you do not need to deal with the past to overcome the impact of trauma or recover from depression. Real change can happen rapidly by focusing on thoughts in the present moment. Key Takeaways You don’t need to explore the past—even for trauma Dr. Burns challenges the idea that recovery requires revisiting painful memories. You do not need to deal with the past to overcome the impact of trauma. Instead, healing comes from addressing the thoughts and beliefs you’re having right now. Thoughts—not events—create emotional suffering Depression and trauma-related distress are driven by distorted thinking. When those thoughts are exposed as untrue, emotional relief can be immediate. Rapid recovery is possible—even in severe cases Patients can experience dramatic improvement in just a few sessions—or even minutes. Trauma patients, often considered “hard to treat,” can respond quickly using present-focused methods. “You do not need to deal with the past to overcome the impact of trauma or recover from depression. All of your suffering is contained in how you're thinking in this moment—and when you change those thoughts, you can change how you feel immediately.” Resources Mentioned – Free tool for improving mood and applying CBT techniques – Free resources, tools, and exercises – Scroll the page for many articles by David Final Thought If you’re struggling right now, there is hope—and possibly faster relief than you’ve been led to believe. You don’t have to spend years digging into your past. By examining your thoughts in the present moment, you may already have everything you need to start feeling better today. https://traffic.libsyn.com/feelinggood/Episode_504_-_Feeling_Good_Podcast.mp3 Listener Invitation Have a question you’d like Dr. Burns to answer in a future episode?Submit it through the Feeling Great app or the Feeling Good Podcast website. Let Us Know What You Think of This Episode Please use this to take a very brief survey and share your opinion with us about this episode Contact Information Kevin Cornelius, LMFT is a Level 5 Certified Master TEAM-CBT Therapist and Trainer and the Clinical Director of Feeling Good Institute--Silicon Valley. He specializes in the treatment of trauma, anxiety, depression, relationship problems and insomnia. You can reach Kevin at [email protected] and visit his website at www.tools4change.me. You can reach Dr. Burns at [email protected]. Feeling down in these turbulent times? Take a ride on Feeling Great feels wonderful! You owe it to yourself to feel GREAT! Give the Greatest Gifts of ALL--Love and Happiness! /episode/index/show/feelinggood/id/41025880

503: Is It Time for a New Approach to Emotional Suffering 05/25/2026

503: Is It Time for a New Approach to Emotional Suffering Is it Time for a New Approach to Emotional Suffering? Advantages and Disadvantages of DSM Diagnoses Hosts: Kevin Cornelius, LMFT Dr. David Burns Episode Summary In this thought-provoking episode, Dr. David Burns and host Kevin Cornelius, LMFT explore a topic that shapes nearly every corner of modern mental health care: psychiatric diagnosis. For decades, the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders (DSM) has defined how clinicians diagnose, treat, and research emotional suffering. But what if many of these diagnostic categories don’t represent distinct medical diseases? What if they are simply normal human emotions—like sadness, anxiety, or shame—occurring on a spectrum? Dr. Burns draws on decades of clinical experience, research, and insights from TEAM-CBT to question the assumptions behind psychiatric labeling. While diagnoses can sometimes reduce stigma or help people access care, they can also unintentionally shape identity, medicalize everyday emotional struggles, and distract from the real drivers of emotional pain. This episode offers a nuanced conversation about labels, measurement, therapy, and what actually helps people recover from depression and anxiety. In This Episode You’ll Learn What the DSM is—and why it became so influential How the DSM functions as the “diagnostic bible” of psychiatry Why the system was originally designed for research standardization, not necessarily for everyday clinical treatment The difference between true mental disorders and normal emotional experiences Examples of genuine brain disorders such as schizophrenia and bipolar I disorder Why many DSM diagnoses describe normal emotions taken to an extreme How everyday struggles became medical diagnoses Shyness becoming “social anxiety disorder” Chronic worry becoming “generalized anxiety disorder” Why time-based thresholds (like “14 days of depression”) can be arbitrary The unintended consequences of diagnostic labels How labels can reinforce feelings of shame or defectiveness Why diagnoses can sometimes lead to over-medicalization and medication-focused care Why measurement matters more than diagnosis in therapy Dr. Burns explains how simple mood scales can quickly assess a patient’s emotional state Research showing that DSM diagnoses often add little predictive value for treatment outcomes A surprising research finding After lengthy diagnostic interviews, clinicians were only 3–5% accurate at estimating patients’ feelings in the moment What this reveals about the limits of traditional diagnostic approaches Why focusing on thoughts may be the key According to cognitive research, negative thoughts drive emotional suffering Effective therapy focuses on identifying and transforming these thoughts Hope for people who feel defined by a diagnosis Why diagnoses do not determine your ability to recover How targeted cognitive techniques can sometimes produce rapid improvements—even within a single session Benefits of Diagnosis (According to Dr. Burns) While the episode critiques diagnostic labeling, the conversation also highlights situations where diagnoses can help: Access to insurance coverage Eligibility for disability or academic accommodations Temporary relief from self-blame Clear communication in research studies Key Takeaway Mental health diagnoses can sometimes be useful administrative tools—but they should never define who you are. Real healing often comes from understanding the specific thoughts, moments, and experiences that drive emotional pain, and learning practical methods to change them. Mentioned in This Episode (Psychology Today) TEAM-CBT approach to psychotherapy Brief Mood Survey and other measurement tools used in therapy Memorable Quote “We treat humans, not disorders.” Connect & Learn More Explore more tools and resources at If you enjoyed this episode, please consider subscribing, sharing the podcast, or leaving a review. It helps more people discover tools for overcoming depression and anxiety. Let Us Know What You Think of This Episode Please use this to take a very brief survey and share your opinion with us about this episode Contact Information Kevin Cornelius, LMFT is a Level 5 Certified Master TEAM-CBT Therapist and Trainer and the Clinical Director of Feeling Good Institute--Silicon Valley. He specializes in the treatment of trauma, anxiety, depression, relationship problems and insomnia. You can reach Kevin at [email protected] and visit his website at www.tools4change.me. You can reach Dr. Burns at . Feeling down in these turbulent times? Take a ride on our . Feeling Great feels wonderful! You owe it to yourself to feel GREAT! Give the Greatest Gifts of ALL--Love and Happiness! /episode/index/show/feelinggood/id/41024865

Starting in June: Get TEAM CBT Certified Fast (46 CEs) 05/19/2026

502: Ask David: Is High-Speed Change a “Quick Fix”? 05/18/2026

502: Ask David: Is High-Speed Change a “Quick Fix”? Ask David: Is High Speed Change a Quick Fix? Trauma, Anxiety, and What Really Works Hosts: Kevin Cornelius, LMFT Dr. David Burns Guest: Dr. Rhonda Barovsky Episode Summary In this powerful Ask David episode, Dr. David Burns, Kevin Cornelius, and Dr. Rhonda Barovsky tackle two deeply important listener questions: Is rapid emotional recovery just a “quick fix,” especially for people with severe trauma? How can someone manage intense anxiety and “what if” thoughts in the moment—when they keep coming back? Through vivid clinical stories, real examples from the Feeling Great app, and live demonstrations of TEAM-CBT techniques, the panel explores why working in the present moment can lead to profound and lasting emotional change—even for people with severe trauma histories. Question 1: Is Fast Change Just a “Quick Fix”? Dr. Burns responds to a question inspired by the story of Elise, a Holocaust survivor who recovered from severe depression after challenging a single, devastating belief: “I’ve never accomplished anything meaningful in my life.” When that belief was overturned, Elise’s depression disappeared—immediately. Listeners often wonder: Was something deeper left unresolved? Doesn’t trauma require long-term exploration of the past? Dr. Burns shares: 50 years of clinical experience producing rapid, measurable symptom elimination Research from the Feeling Great app showing that current thoughts—not past suffering—predict change Why working in the present moment automatically transforms the past Why many therapy schools rely on belief systems rather than data He also discusses new findings (recently published in Psychology Today) showing that prior depression over the last two years adds zero predictive value once current mood and thoughts are addressed. “The moment you’re in is vastly more important than the one you remember.” Question 2: What If My Anxious Thoughts Keep Coming Back? The second question comes from Dina, a college student overwhelmed by social anxiety and catastrophic “what if” thoughts about meeting with her professor. Despite successfully completing a Daily Mood Log and reducing her anxiety to near zero, Dina finds that the thoughts keep returning in real-life situations. The team explains why this happens—and what to do next. Key strategies discussed: Why cognitive work alone isn’t enough for anxiety The importance of exposure and testing fears in real situations Using self-disclosure to dissolve shame Turning anxiety into connection rather than avoidance Role-playing feared scenarios (“Professor from Hell”) Externalization of voices Feared fantasy and “what-if” techniques Shame-attacking exercises Asking for real feedback instead of guessing what others think Identifying hidden emotions (such as unexpressed anger) Understanding interpersonal roles and rules that fuel anxiety Multiple techniques are demonstrated live, showing how anxiety collapses when fears are brought into the open with warmth, humor, and honesty. Key Takeaways Rapid emotional change is not a gimmick—it can be measured, replicated, and sustained Trauma is embedded in the present moment, not trapped in the past Anxiety persists when we hide, not when we feel Exposure + self-disclosure = freedom You don’t need to eliminate negative thoughts—just stop believing them The Feeling Great app offers free, evidence-based tools anyone can use Tools & Resources Mentioned Feeling Great App (free): Daily Mood Log TEAM-CBT tools: Motivational Methods Cognitive Techniques Exposure Hidden Emotion Work Five Secrets of Effective Communication Psychology Today article: “The Moment You’re In Is Vastly More Important Than the One You Remember” Memorable Quotes “When we change the present, we change the past.” — Dr. David Burns “Shame is like a vampire—it can’t survive the light of day.” “Stop doing one thing and expecting it to work for everyone.” “You don’t need to be perfect to feel better.” Listener Invitation Have a question you’d like Dr. Burns to answer on a future episode? Submit it through the Feeling Great app or the Feeling Good Podcast website. Kevin, Rhonda, and I thank you for listening today! Let Us Know What You Think of This Episode Please use this to take a very brief survey and share your opinion with us about this episode Contact Information Kevin Cornelius, LMFT is a Level 5 Certified Master TEAM-CBT Therapist and Trainer and the Clinical Director of Feeling Good Institute--Silicon Valley. He specializes in the treatment of trauma, anxiety, depression, relationship problems and insomnia. You can reach Kevin at [email protected] and visit his website at www.tools4change.me. Dr. Rhonda Barovsky is a Level 5 Certified TEAM-CBT Master Therapist and Trainer and specializes in the treatment of trauma, anxiety, depression, and relationship problems. Check out her website: . You can reach Dr. Burns at . Feeling down in these turbulent times? Take a ride on . Feeling Great feels wonderful! You owe it to yourself to feel GREAT! Give the Greatest Gifts of ALL--Love and Happiness! /episode/index/show/feelinggood/id/41005840

501: Ask David: Help! Relentless Anger–Nothing Works! Is Freedom of Speech a “Need?” Or “Want?” 05/11/2026

501: Ask David: Help! Relentless Anger–Nothing Works! Is Freedom of Speech a “Need?” Or “Want?” Ask David: Help! Relentless Anger! Nothing Works! Is Freedom of Speech a "Need?" Hosts: Kevin Cornelius, LMFT Dr. David Burns Guest: Dr. Rhonda Barovsky Today I am thrilled to be working with our new host for the Feeling Good Podcast, Mr. Kevin Cornelius, a dear friend and brilliant therapist who works as a licensed Marriage and Family Therapist at the Feeling Good Institute in Mt. View, California. Today, Keven starts a multi-podcast trial as our new host to find out how he likes the new position, and how you, are audience feel. It will be hard for anyone to fill Rhonda's shoes, of course, but Kevin brings his own combination of warmth, charm, and brilliance to the show. I hope you like the new show! Let us know what you think! Today, we address three questions: Question #1: How do you deal with a "relentlessly angry" patient who does not respond to the five secrets of effective communication? Question #2: How can I deal with a patient who may have been triggered by my phone call when I had to change l a scheduled session? Question #3: Zach asks if freedom of speech is a "want" or a "need." Hi David and Kevin: I have cleared my schedule so I can be there to support Kevin in his first podcast,. I have two questions for the Ask David podcast: 1.) How do you handle a "relentlessly angry" patient? By that I mean, one of your patient's is upset with you, you respond with a skillful 5-secrets response and yet they continue being angry with you, even screaming at you for 30 minutes. David's comment: The discussion of this excellent question got a little heated, as David pointed out that in his experience, when people say "I tried the Five Secrets and it didn't work," 100% of the time they did not actually do a skillful job with the Five Secrets. David asked for the familiar format: What is ONE thing the (angry) patient said, and what, EXACTLY, did you say next? Put this on a Relationship Journal and you will be able to spot your errors right away. David reports that this format does tend to anger people who don't want to have to examine their own role in a relationship problem. The idea that they may have botched the Five Secrets appears to be deeply disturbing, hence the heated discussion today. 2.) How do you handle what is happening "in the here and now" immediate moment, the here and now, with your patient? For example, I had to change an appointment with a patient, she became really angry, and then cancelled her next appointment. One of my colleagues suggested that my patient might have felt triggered when I cancelled the appointment. My colleague suggested I talk to her about what happened when I asked her to change the appointment because if she felt abandoned by me she might have the same experience with other people. How would I bring up what is happening in our relationship with my patient, that they may also experience in other relationships? I could probably think of a few more, Rhonda 3) Dear Dr. Burns, Hello. I hope this message finds you well. I’m writing to ask you a question that has been on my mind. You have mentioned before that freedom of speech is an important part of your value system. I’m curious about how you would frame it psychologically: do you see freedom of speech more as a want, or as a need? Relatedly, for people living in non-democratic countries, do you think it is still possible to achieve a high level of happiness without freedom of speech? I would greatly appreciate your thoughts when you have the time. Thank you very much for your work and for sharing your perspectives. Warm regards, Zack David's Comment: This led to a lively discussion and a consensus on our panel today. We decided that freedom of speech is a great thing, and a strong want, but not a "need." David added: "I am certain that you can find happiness by focusing on the things most important to you, but no one can be happy all the time. We desperately WANT, but definitely do not NEED, freedom of speech. Of course, you can say, “we need it to have a fully functioning democracy,” and that is true, but it true by definition. Kevin, Rhonda, and David thank you for listening today. Again, let us know what you think! Let Us Know What You Think of This Episode Please use this to take a very brief survey and share your opinion with us about this episode Contact Information Kevin Cornelius, LMFT is a Level 5 Certified Master TEAM-CBT Therapist and Trainer and the Clinical Director of Feeling Good Institute--Silicon Valley. He specializes in the treatment of trauma, anxiety, depression, relationship problems and insomnia. You can reach Kevin at [email protected] and visit his website at www.tools4change.me. Dr. Rhonda Barovsky is a Level 5 Certified TEAM-CBT Master Therapist and Trainer and specializes in the treatment of trauma, anxiety, depression, and relationship problems. Check out her website: . You can reach Dr. Burns at . Feeling down in these turbulent times? Take a ride on . Feeling Great feels wonderful! You owe it to yourself to feel GREAT! Give the Greatest Gifts of ALL--Love and Happiness! /episode/index/show/feelinggood/id/40864615

500: Celebrating Rhonda's Triumphant Leadership - and a Sad Goodbye 05/04/2026

500: Celebrating Rhonda's Triumphant Leadership - and a Sad Goodbye 500: Celebrating Rhonda's Triumphant Leadership - and a Sad Goodbye In this very special 500th episode of the Feeling Good Podcast, Matt May, Jill Levitt and I pause to celebrate a remarkable milestone, our 500th episode of the Feeling Good podcast, and to honor someone who has been at the heart of it for the past 273 episodes: Rhonda Barovsky Since stepping into the role of host, Rhonda has brought warmth, wisdom, curiosity, and deep compassion to every conversation. Her presence has helped shape the podcast into a trusted space for learning, healing, personal growth, and building the TEAM community. Week after week, she has guided thoughtful discussions on mood, relationships, anxiety, depression, and the many challenges of being human—with authenticity and grace. Rhonda’s unique ability to ask meaningful questions, highlight practical tools, and connect with listeners has made an immeasurable impact. Whether exploring TEAM CBT techniques or sharing personal reflections, she has helped countless listeners feel seen, understood, and empowered. As Rhonda steps down from her role as host, this episode is dedicated to celebrating her contributions and expressing deep gratitude for all she has given to this community. In this episode, we: Reflect on Rhonda’s journey with the podcast and how she became such an integral part of its success Highlight memorable moments and favorite episodes from her time as host Share behind-the-scenes stories and personal reflections Express appreciation from listeners and the broader Feeling Good community This is not goodbye—it’s a transition. Rhonda leaves behind a powerful legacy and a strong foundation that will continue to inspire future episodes and listeners around the world. Thank you, Rhonda, for your dedication, your heart, and your unwavering commitment to helping people feel better. And to our listeners: thank you for being part of these 500 episodes. We’re so glad you’re here—and we’re excited for what comes next as Kevin Cornelius steps into the role of the Feeling Good Podcast host. Welcome, Kevin! Warmly, David, Rhonda, Matt and Jill /episode/index/show/feelinggood/id/40750495

499: Live Work with Hiral, Part 2 of 2 04/27/2026

499: Live Work with Hiral, Part 2 of 2 Inside the Therapy Room: A Live TEAM CBT Session with Hiral-- The Exciting Conclusion! Part 2 of 2 Overview What an incredible day. David and I had the privilege of working with Hiral, a young mother from India who was drowning in perfectionism, self-criticism, and the crushing weight of trying to be everything to everyone. Over the course of about two hours, we watched her transform from someone scoring 100% on depression, anxiety, guilt, shame, and hopelessness to feeling peaceful, relaxed, and genuinely joyful—with most scores dropping to zero. This wasn't magic. It was TEAM-CBT done systematically, with measurement, genuine empathy, paradoxical agenda setting, and powerful cognitive techniques. And yes, Hiral did most of the heavy lifting herself once we got out of her way. For those of you who attended or are reading this summary, I want to walk you through what happened—not just what we did, but why it worked. Because here's the thing: this will look deceptively simple. That's the trap. TEAM-CBT is among the hardest therapeutic approaches to master, precisely because each step exists on multiple levels and requires you to change before your patients can change. Let's dig in. The Setup: Who Was Hiral? Hiral is a mother of an almost-four-year-old son, living in a joint family in Gujarat, India, with her husband and in-laws. She's also studying to become a TEAM-CBT therapist herself, preparing for her Level 3 certification exam. But beneath these roles, Hiral was suffering: Feeling like a failure as a mother Constant self-criticism and perfectionism Trapped in a rigid family environment with little emotional support Isolated from friends, her own parents, and the vibrant life she once had Plagued by guilt, shame, anxiety, and hopelessness—all at 100% Sound familiar? I'll bet many of you have worked with someone like Hiral. Or maybe you've been Hiral at some point in your life. I know I have. T = Testing: The Emotional X-Ray Before we even said hello to Hiral, she completed the Brief Mood Survey—David's ultra-reliable, ultra-short measures of depression, anxiety, anger, happiness, and relationship satisfaction right now, in this moment. Her scores were staggering: Depression: 11/20 (moderate, with "sad," "down," and "hopeless" all elevated) Anxiety: 14/20 (moderate to severe) Anger: 14/20 (same intensity as anxiety) Happiness: 8/20 (very low) Relationship Satisfaction: 10/30 (significant dissatisfaction with her husband) Why this matters: Most therapists never measure how their patients feel. They think they know, but research shows therapist accuracy is around 3-10% on depression, suicidality, anxiety, and anger. Zero percent on suicidal urges. Think about that. Without measurement, you're flying blind. With it, you have an emotional X-ray that shows you exactly where the patient is hurting—and later, exactly how much you've helped (or haven't). TEAM-CBT Pearl: Testing isn't optional. It's the foundation. Measure at the start of every session, and measure again at the end. If you're scared to see the results, that's your ego talking. E = Empathy: The Zero Technique For the first 30-40 minutes, David and I did... nothing. Well, not nothing—we listened. We used the Five Secrets of Effective Communication: Disarming Technique: Finding truth in what Hiral said Thought Empathy: Paraphrasing her thoughts Feeling Empathy: Acknowledging her emotions Inquiry: Asking gentle questions to help her open up Stroking: Conveying warmth and respect But here's the key: we gave her nothing. No advice. No cheerleading. No problem-solving. We call this the Zero Technique—giving the patient nothing is actually giving them everything, because what they want most is to feel understood. The Empathy Pitfall: DO NOT PREACH Early in empathy, it's tempting to: Problem-solve Rescue Educate Advise Cheerlead Help Resist. Your job is to go with your patient to the gates of hell and just be with them there. Checking Our Empathy After about 30 minutes, we asked Hiral to grade us on three dimensions (A, B, C, D, or F): Thought Empathy: How well did we understand her negative thoughts? Feeling Empathy: How well did we acknowledge her emotions? Warmth & Acceptance: Did she feel cared about and accepted? She gave us two A's and hesitated on the third. Why? She didn't feel we could truly understand her cultural context—the joint family system, the rigid in-laws, the isolation from her friends and parents. She felt alone even with us. This was gold. Instead of getting defensive, we leaned in. David shared his own experience living near in-laws with vastly different values. I shared my own struggles with perfectionism and parenting anxiety. Hiral started to cry—not from sadness, but from finally feeling seen. TEAM-CBT Pearl: When you get a failing grade on empathy, celebrate. It's your chance to deepen the connection. Process the failure with your patient, and watch the breakthrough happen. /episode/index/show/feelinggood/id/40625690

498: Live Work with Hiral, Part 1 of 2 04/20/2026

498: Live Work with Hiral, Part 1 of 2 Inside the Therapy Room: A Live TEAM CBT Session with Hiral Part 1 of 2 Overview What an incredible day. David and I had the privilege of working with Hiral, a young mother from India who was drowning in perfectionism, self-criticism, and the crushing weight of trying to be everything to everyone. Over the course of about two hours, we watched her transform from someone scoring 100% on depression, anxiety, guilt, shame, and hopelessness to feeling peaceful, relaxed, and genuinely joyful—with most scores dropping to zero. This wasn't magic. It was TEAM-CBT done systematically, with measurement, genuine empathy, paradoxical agenda setting, and powerful cognitive techniques. And yes, Hiral did most of the heavy lifting herself once we got out of her way. For those of you who attended or are reading this summary, I want to walk you through what happened—not just what we did, but why it worked. Because here's the thing: this will look deceptively simple. That's the trap. TEAM-CBT is among the hardest therapeutic approaches to master, precisely because each step exists on multiple levels and requires you to change before your patients can change. Let's dig in. The Setup: Who Was Hiral? Hiral is a mother of an almost-four-year-old son, living in a joint family in Gujarat, India, with her husband and in-laws. She's also studying to become a TEAM-CBT therapist herself, preparing for her Level 3 certification exam. But beneath these roles, Hiral was suffering: Feeling like a failure as a mother Constant self-criticism and perfectionism Trapped in a rigid family environment with little emotional support Isolated from friends, her own parents, and the vibrant life she once had Plagued by guilt, shame, anxiety, and hopelessness—all at 100% Sound familiar? I'll bet many of you have worked with someone like Hiral. Or maybe you've been Hiral at some point in your life. I know I have. T = Testing: The Emotional X-Ray Before we even said hello to Hiral, she completed the Brief Mood Survey—David's ultra-reliable, ultra-short measures of depression, anxiety, anger, happiness, and relationship satisfaction right now, in this moment. Her scores were staggering: Depression: 11/20 (moderate, with "sad," "down," and "hopeless" all elevated) Anxiety: 14/20 (moderate to severe) Anger: 14/20 (same intensity as anxiety) Happiness: 8/20 (very low) Relationship Satisfaction: 10/30 (significant dissatisfaction with her husband) Why this matters: Most therapists never measure how their patients feel. They think they know, but research shows therapist accuracy is around 3-10% on depression, suicidality, anxiety, and anger. Zero percent on suicidal urges. Think about that. Without measurement, you're flying blind. With it, you have an emotional X-ray that shows you exactly where the patient is hurting—and later, exactly how much you've helped (or haven't). TEAM-CBT Pearl: Testing isn't optional. It's the foundation. Measure at the start of every session, and measure again at the end. If you're scared to see the results, that's your ego talking. E = Empathy: The Zero Technique For the first 30-40 minutes, David and I did... nothing. Well, not nothing—we listened. We used the Five Secrets of Effective Communication: Disarming Technique: Finding truth in what Hiral said Thought Empathy: Paraphrasing her thoughts Feeling Empathy: Acknowledging her emotions Inquiry: Asking gentle questions to help her open up Stroking: Conveying warmth and respect But here's the key: we gave her nothing. No advice. No cheerleading. No problem-solving. We call this the Zero Technique—giving the patient nothing is actually giving them everything, because what they want most is to feel understood. The Empathy Pitfall: DO NOT PREACH Early in empathy, it's tempting to: Problem-solve Rescue Educate Advise Cheerlead Help Resist. Your job is to go with your patient to the gates of hell and just be with them there. Checking Our Empathy After about 30 minutes, we asked Hiral to grade us on three dimensions (A, B, C, D, or F): Thought Empathy: How well did we understand her negative thoughts? Feeling Empathy: How well did we acknowledge her emotions? Warmth & Acceptance: Did she feel cared about and accepted? She gave us two A's and hesitated on the third. Why? She didn't feel we could truly understand her cultural context—the joint family system, the rigid in-laws, the isolation from her friends and parents. She felt alone even with us. This was gold. Instead of getting defensive, we leaned in. David shared his own experience living near in-laws with vastly different values. I shared my own struggles with perfectionism and parenting anxiety. Hiral started to cry—not from sadness, but from finally feeling seen. TEAM-CBT Pearl: When you get a failing grade on empathy, celebrate. It's your chance to deepen the connection. Process the failure with your patient, and watch the breakthrough happen. Next week, Part 2, the exciting conclusion of the live session with Hiral! /episode/index/show/feelinggood/id/40561800

497: Why Isn't TEAM More Popular? 04/13/2026

497: Why Isn't TEAM More Popular? Why Isn't TEAM More Popular? Why Do So Many Therapists Resist TEAM CBT? Featuring Matt May, MD Why has the therapeutic community been so resistant to TEAM? This topic has been a concern to me or many years. To be honest, it isn't new. From the very start of cognitive therapy, when I was first learning it, I began modifying it to make it more dynamic, powerful, and effective. But to be honest, I ran into a small (at the time) of Beck loyalists who branded me as an "outsider," something Beck also did when my book, Feeling Good, began to sell and gain popularity. This saddened and frustrated me, and still does, but it had some great spin-off. On my own, my ideas and approaches grew rapidly, and there was no scarcity of young therapists who wanted to work with me. Below, you will ready Matt's take on why TEAM CBT has not caught on better, followed by my own thoughts. So read, and enjoy, and feel free to share your own thinking on this topic! On the live podcast, you will hear our lively discussion with our beloved and brilliant host, Rhonda! Thanks for listening today! Matt, Rhonda, and David Matt’s take: Hi David, I'm excited to discuss this topic! Also, I agree we would be hard-pressed to cover it in an hour, which I believe is the goal for the podcast. So, why isn’t TEAM isn't more popular? My short answer is that TEAM isn’t more popular because many therapists don’t want to learn it. Those reasons will vary from one person to another and relate to concepts in the model, itself, like ‘process resistance’ and ‘outcome resistance’. While biological factors, like deficits in cognitive flexibility and neuroplasticity, the ‘primacy effect’ and age-related changes in the brain, combined with the complexity of the TEAM model, will make it near-impossible for some folks to learn it, these barriers are hard to address with our current technology For the purpose of this conversation, it probably makes more sense to consider the psychological barriers therapists have to adopting a model that is scientifically proven to be superior to other approaches. As a proponent of TEAM and an instructor, I’d love to know what I’m doing wrong, in presenting the model and how to get more people excited about learning it. While more research would help us see the problem more clearly, here are some factors that likely play a role: It seems humans have a hard time adopting new truths, regardless of the field being considered. I believe it was Schopenhauer who said all new truths go through three phases on the way to acceptance: People will ridicule it, violently oppose it, then say they knew it all along as self-evident! One cause of this is something called the 'primacy effect'. People preferentially retain the first version of a story they hear. If that information is corrected, later, they will continue to believe the first version they heard. Biological Factors play a role in learning, including genetics, aging, illness and toxic exposure. ‘Switching gears’, mentally, is more challenging in people with Schizophrenia and their first-degree relatives, for example. We know that neuroplasticity is greatest in our youth and declines over our lifespan. Hence the importance of early education and attending to our overall health, habits, nutrition and medical care. Socioeconomic and Cultural factors certainly play a role. This is well documented in the book, 'The Emperor's New Drugs', showing how marketing prevailed over science in promoting “antidepressants”. Many therapists in training tell me, 'oh, they wouldn't let me use a measurement tool where I work'. Lack of ‘Critical Thinking’. What people believe often has nothing to do with what is evidence-based or logical. Many people reject global warming despite the evidence and prefer to believe in conspiracy theories. We tend to preferentially believe what someone says if we feel a kinship or loyalty to that person or view them as an ‘expert’. People might believe RFK Jr. when he says immunizations are dangerous, for example, because he is in their political party and in a position of power, rather than review the science for themselves. Sunk-Cost Fallacy: People who have gone through training may have a sense that they have invested too much time and money in their education to discard that model and start afresh. Even if we covered this in just a few minutes, we'd still be up against the hardest part of TEAM to learn, Agenda Setting. Lots of 'Good Reasons' NOT to have open hands, explore topics paradoxically, and reasons this is challenging, technically. So, yeah, we'll have a lot to discuss and I'm looking forward to that! Sincerely, Matt Here is David’s list Taking a page out of your book, Matt, our field is filled with so-called “schools” of therapy that function much like cults, most with a narcissistic “leader” at the helm. In a cult, members are required to be absolutely loyal, and to believe in claims the guru makes that have little or no evidence to back them up. For example, most “schools” of therapy claim to know “the” cause of emotional distress, when the causes of depression and other forms of emotional disturbance are still not known. What I have been suggesting is that we get rid of all the schools of therapy and usher in a new era of science-based, data-driven therapy, which would amount to a revolution in our field. This idea, which I feel passionate about, always meets with stiff and hostel opposition / push back. People just don’t want to hear it. TEAM integrates high-level empathy and compassion with firm accountability. Give Stanford story with Sunny Choi, and the statement that “Stanford graduate students and faculty cannot be held accountable for doing psychotherapy homework. The need insight-oriented therapy!” This angrily issued statement conveyed, actually, two cult-like (to my thinking) components: First, we KNOW that patients should not be asked to do psychotherapy homework between sessions. Second, we KNOW that “insight-oriented therapy” is the treatment, without ever evaluating them. TEAM focuses on the here and now, and emphasize a “fractal” approach to treatment, where the same distortions and self-defeating beliefs will be embedded in the patient’s negative thoughts and feelings every time she or he is upset. So, when you change the present, you have already changed the past. Whereas most therapies have traditionally (and still) focus on the past, thinking they will find the cause of the patient’s distress in some pattern or traumatic event. TEAM focuses on rapid change in the here and now, where as many (most?) therapies focus on talk therapy that unfolds slowly, over a period of months, years, or even more. This DOES provide a powerful financial incentive to do “talk therapy,” since this drastically provides financial security and reduces the incredible pressure of constantly have to find new patients. TEAM is very challenging to learn. I have taught over 50,000 therapists in the past 35 years or more, through my supervision of graduate students and psychiatric residents, my weekly training group at Stanford, and my workshops, including intensive, around the US and Canada. And one lesson that has emerged is just how difficult it is to learn TEAM. It requires a high level of intelligence and aptitude, and an unusual dedication and commitment. A great many of the most important tools, like Assessment of Resistance, and Externalization of Voices with the CAT, Self-Defense, and the Acceptance Paradox, are extremely difficult to learn and master. And most give up, and drop out, in favor of some simpler and more formulaic therapy that is easy to learn. TEAM training requires constant role-playing with specific and immediate feedback on your performance, which includes bot a letter grade (A, B, C, etc.) as well as what you did that was effective, and where you fell short and might need to fine-tune your technique with frequent role reversals, always with feedback. This means lots of criticism along the way, which many (most?) therapists do not like. And although we repeatedly emphasize the philosophy of “joyous failure,” and “learning through failure,” most people do not buy it emotionally. We all want success and compliments! And NOT the “great death” of the self.” The “great death” permeates every phase of the T E A M process. At the T = Testing, you will nearly always learn that your perceptions of your patients feel, and how they feel about you, are way off base. This is critically important, but painful for most, as it is a direct body blow to our “need” to be in the role of “expert.” Unlike most other forms of therapy, we require therapists to measure patients’ feelings, “in the here and now,” at the start and end of every therapy session, using brief, highly reliable scales that assess feelings of depression, suicidal urges, anxiety, anger, and also happiness, as well as relationship satisfaction or discord. These scales function like an “emotional X-ray machine,” allowing therapists for the first time to see exactly how effective or ineffective you were in every therapy session. Can you take it? On the positive side, this information will allow you to fine tune the therapy and learn from all of your patients every day. On the negative side, you may not want to have to “see” your failures before your eyes at every session with every patient. David: Tell the story of Tuesday group patient who proudly showed me her depression (and other scores) over the previous year with one of her patients. . . But there was absolutely no improvement in any scale. This was shocking and it made me very sad. My goal is to get dramatic changes within a single session. This “great death” continues during the E phase. TEAM therapists are required to ask “What’s my grade on empathy” during the session, and also patients fill out the Empathy Scale and other scales on the “Patient’s Evaluation of Therapy Session” right after the session. These scales are set up to make therapist failure common, almost universal at first. A warm and curious dialogue about where the therapist went wrong can revolutionize the therapy and deepen the relationship—quickly. But at what cost to the fragile ego of the insecure shrink? The “great death” continues with A = Paradoxical Agenda Setting. You give up your role as the “expert:” or “helper” or “rescuer,” which many therapist refuse to do, and instead “become” the patient’s subconscious resistance, arguing, with compassion and logic, that there are many GOOD reasons NOT to change. This freaks therapists out! The “great death” continues with the M = Methods phase of the session. I have developed roughly 140 methods to help people challenge distorted negative thoughts and self-defeating beliefs, and have always taught that no one method will work for everyone who’s depressed and anxious. So you will have to try many methods, using the Recovery Circle, to find the one that works for each patient. But these methods are challenging to learn, and most therapists don’t seem to have the intelligence, aptitude, or commitment to learning how to use them. Many of the methods and insights of TEAM or subtle nuances that many therapists do not “get” or perhaps do not want to “get.” Example, the ACT training group, where someone held up the Feeling Good book and said, “We do not want THIS!” They falsely believed that “leaning into” your feelings is always the answer, and wrong believed that TEAM tried to make people happy all the time—called Toxic Positivity—whereas nothing could be further from the truth. In fact, I mentioned healthy negative feelings as early as, I think, Chapter 3 in Feeling Good, “Sadness is Not Depression,” where I told the story of an elderly man who died on the Stanford inpatient medical service one evening when I was a medical student. Much of what I teach is shocking and at odds with what people are taught in graduate school. For example, the idea that most people with depression and anxiety—NOT everybody!—can be effectively treated in a single, extended therapy session. Curses! That sounds horrible! And even worse-sounding is the idea that change typically happens suddenly, at the very moment patients stop believing their distorted thoughts. Of course, since most therapists have not seen these phenomena, due perhaps to not having the skill, they insist instead that David is some type of fool, liar, or con artis. Okee Dokee! People—therapists and patients alike—do not “get” a great many of the key ideas in TEAM. For example, let’s say the socially anxious patient totally believes the thought, “I shouldn’t be so screwed up!” the necessary and sufficient conditions for emotional change. The necessary condition: The Positive Thought (PT) must be 100% true. Rationalizations and half-truths have never helped anybody. The sufficient condition: The PT must drastically reduce your belief in the negative thought. And that’s when your negative thoughts will suddenly change. There is even more of what I teach is shocking and at odds with what people believe. For example, 2,000 years ago Epictetus stated they key premise of all the cognitive therapies: “People are disturbed, not by things, or events, but by the views they have of them”. And recently, our research team has provided proof of this for the first time, in a study of nearly 7,000 users of our Feeling Great app, using sophisticated statistical modeling techniques. So, the three tenants of cognitive therapies, including TEAM, are: First, you FEEL the way you THINK. In other words, all of your positive and negative feelings result from your thoughts in the here-and-now. Second, depression and anxiety are the world’s oldest cons. In other words, your negative thoughts, like “I’m not as good as I should be,” or “I’m a hopeless case,”—will be loaded with many of the ten cognitive distortions and are extremely misleading—but you don’t realize this when you’re upset. You will believe these thoughts with all your heart and feel CERTAIN that they are 100% true. Third, you can CHANGE the way you FEEL. But lots of people will won’t have it. They keep insisting on theories that simply aren’t true—that emotions cause thoughts, for example—and on methods that may have little or no “punch” above and beyond the placebo effect. Story of Tuesday group student who was scolded in her graduate school counseling program for using the words “thought” or cognition during a therapy session. She was told ONLY to focus on feelings. Many people—therapists and patients alike—strongly believe that therapist empathy is THE key to healing. I have developed many powerful empathy tracking and training methods, but our clinical experience and research has shown, over and over, that therapist empathy is NOT the key to healing. They keys involve using TEAM systematically, and the rapid healing happens during the A and M for the most part. But those are the hard parts! Other problems include the idea that we can convert normal human emotional distress into a series of “mental disorders” that are listed in the DSM, the “bible” of the American Psychiatric Association. In TEAM, we consider each patient’s patterns of suffering at the start of therapy, quickly and easily screened by the EASY Diagnostic System, but monitor therapy and patient progress with simple tools that measure feelings, like depression, anxiety, anger, and more. But this is an argument for another day. There’s a lot more issues, too. Have I, David, contributed to the resistance to TEAM? Absolutely I have. I plead guilty as accused, and I’m proud of it. I’m totally aware that people—maybe even you— get turned off by criticism, and naturally recoil to protect your “in group,” as Matt so clearly pointed out, and maintain loyalty to your “leader,” whether it’s Freud, Jung, Beck, Hayes, Rogers, or whoever. People are more emotional than rational, and people can be intentionally cruel and deceptive, too, all in the name of what they believe. We see that in our politics these days too. People believe things that are totally false, and wildly implausible, because the group or leader says it’s true, it’s the way things are. I’m a strong believer that science and truth will win out in the long run. Is this inevitable? I’m not totally confident, and have my doubts, but I am also filled with hope, and look to a future with more therapists like our beloved Matt May, MD and others who have dared to venture in a radically new direction, much like the early astronomers like Galileo and Copernicus who dared to challenge the superstitious teachings of the Catholic church. Those brave and brilliant early souls said, “things are NOT the way you think!” And they used data and mathematical modeling to prove their points. But there were a hundreds years of intimidation and suffering until people finally began to catch on to the then-ridiculous and outrageous ideas that the sun does NOT actually revolve around the earth, and that the earth is NOT the center of the universe. Those NOTS changed history. Can it happen again in the fields of psychiatry and psychotherapy? I hope so, and I’ve been giving my all, in my teaching, research, clinical work and writing, to make this happen. Sadly, I’ve fallen far short of my dream, but I’m thankful every day for what I’ve got, and the wonderful colleagues I’m privileged to know and love. Warmly, David, Matt and Rhonda /episode/index/show/feelinggood/id/40374655

496: Should Therapists Express Their Feelings? Freud's Huge Error! Featuring Matt May, MD 04/06/2026

496: Should Therapists Express Their Feelings? Freud's Huge Error! Featuring Matt May, MD Should Therapists Express Their Feelings? Freud's Huge Error! Featuring Matt May, MD Today we touch base on a really important and highly controversial question: Should therapists express their feelings? Or remain blank slates, as Freud so strongly recommended. We begin with a scholarly and really interesting (oxymoron?) piece that Matt wrote about Freud’s own fear of sharing his feelings, and how that led to the huge mistake called psychoanalysis. At the end of this piece, I will briefly summarize the podcast. Matt’s piece here Matt began by describing a fascinating case of a woman who had a functional neurological disorder. She appeared, in other words, to be unable to walk, but her walking problem was entirely caused by her mind. Often this type of problem is due to the “Hidden Emotion” phenomenon, where the patient is hiding some powerful feeling—from themselves and others—and then that feeling comes out indirectly, as some form of anxiety (very common) or even as a neurological problem, such as apparent paralysis in a limb. Matt, can you briefly summarize your thinking on how her symptoms may have been due to suppressed anger? During the session, the concept of anger came up, and the husband became agitated, and started pounding angrily on the desk. Clearly, of course, his wife was also terrified of him, one of the key dynamics in their dysfunctional marriage. Matt was scared, and decided to say, “I feel scared right now.” The man calmed down instantly. She, too, had been afraid of expressing her feelings. Matt and Rhonda talked about effective and ineffective ways of expressing your feelings. Like everything else in the universe, “I Feel” statements are a two-edged sword. What Matt said—“I feel scared”—was a human statement of vulnerability that did not threaten this many in any way. Matt’s humanness allowed him to lower his defenses and open up as well. But saying, “I feel controlled,” is actually a hidden criticism of the other person, and it will nearly always trigger more aggression and anger. They also discussed setting boundaries, another highly controversial topic, because much of the time, when therapists (or anyone) attempt to set boundaries, it comes across as an attempt to control the other person, to tell them what they can and cannot do, and that has a high probability of triggering more anger, and is an invitation to violate the annoying “limit” you are trying to set. Matt described a common and frustrating dynamic: a woman who kept “forgetting” to do her psychotherapy homework, and instead kept chasing a man who treated her badly. Of course, her behavior caused him to become even more aggressive and abusive. Matt: what was your point here? I didn’t get it in my notes. Any help appreciated! You can be brief, as many words tends to intimidate me. In contrast, a statement like “I’m feeling hurt right now,” is vastly less powerful, since it is simply a gentle, non-aggressive way, of showing how you feel. But by the same token, it is often vastly more powerful than attempts to set limits. These are complicated topics, easily misunderstood. For more information, check out my book Feeling Good Together. Warmly, David, Rhonda and Matt /episode/index/show/feelinggood/id/40374440

Exciting All-New Workshop on Core Beliefs (for Therapists) 03/31/2026

Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy

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