Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy

This podcast features David D. Burns MD, author of "Feeling Good, The New Mood Therapy," describing powerful new techniques to overcome depression and anxiety and develop greater joy and self-esteem. For therapists and the general public alike!

500: Celebrating Rhonda's Triumphant Leadership - and a Sad Goodbye 05/04/2026

500: Celebrating Rhonda's Triumphant Leadership - and a Sad Goodbye 500: Celebrating Rhonda's Triumphant Leadership - and a Sad Goodbye In this very special 500th episode of the Feeling Good Podcast, Matt May, Jill Levitt and I pause to celebrate a remarkable milestone, our 500th episode of the Feeling Good podcast, and to honor someone who has been at the heart of it for the past 273 episodes: Rhonda Barovsky Since stepping into the role of host, Rhonda has brought warmth, wisdom, curiosity, and deep compassion to every conversation. Her presence has helped shape the podcast into a trusted space for learning, healing, personal growth, and building the TEAM community. Week after week, she has guided thoughtful discussions on mood, relationships, anxiety, depression, and the many challenges of being human—with authenticity and grace. Rhonda’s unique ability to ask meaningful questions, highlight practical tools, and connect with listeners has made an immeasurable impact. Whether exploring TEAM CBT techniques or sharing personal reflections, she has helped countless listeners feel seen, understood, and empowered. As Rhonda steps down from her role as host, this episode is dedicated to celebrating her contributions and expressing deep gratitude for all she has given to this community. In this episode, we: Reflect on Rhonda’s journey with the podcast and how she became such an integral part of its success Highlight memorable moments and favorite episodes from her time as host Share behind-the-scenes stories and personal reflections Express appreciation from listeners and the broader Feeling Good community This is not goodbye—it’s a transition. Rhonda leaves behind a powerful legacy and a strong foundation that will continue to inspire future episodes and listeners around the world. Thank you, Rhonda, for your dedication, your heart, and your unwavering commitment to helping people feel better. And to our listeners: thank you for being part of these 500 episodes. We’re so glad you’re here—and we’re excited for what comes next as Kevin Cornelius steps into the role of the Feeling Good Podcast host. Welcome, Kevin! Warmly, David, Rhonda, Matt and Jill /episode/index/show/feelinggood/id/40750495

499: Live Work with Hiral, Part 2 of 2 04/27/2026

499: Live Work with Hiral, Part 2 of 2 Inside the Therapy Room: A Live TEAM CBT Session with Hiral-- The Exciting Conclusion! Part 2 of 2 Overview What an incredible day. David and I had the privilege of working with Hiral, a young mother from India who was drowning in perfectionism, self-criticism, and the crushing weight of trying to be everything to everyone. Over the course of about two hours, we watched her transform from someone scoring 100% on depression, anxiety, guilt, shame, and hopelessness to feeling peaceful, relaxed, and genuinely joyful—with most scores dropping to zero. This wasn't magic. It was TEAM-CBT done systematically, with measurement, genuine empathy, paradoxical agenda setting, and powerful cognitive techniques. And yes, Hiral did most of the heavy lifting herself once we got out of her way. For those of you who attended or are reading this summary, I want to walk you through what happened—not just what we did, but why it worked. Because here's the thing: this will look deceptively simple. That's the trap. TEAM-CBT is among the hardest therapeutic approaches to master, precisely because each step exists on multiple levels and requires you to change before your patients can change. Let's dig in. The Setup: Who Was Hiral? Hiral is a mother of an almost-four-year-old son, living in a joint family in Gujarat, India, with her husband and in-laws. She's also studying to become a TEAM-CBT therapist herself, preparing for her Level 3 certification exam. But beneath these roles, Hiral was suffering: Feeling like a failure as a mother Constant self-criticism and perfectionism Trapped in a rigid family environment with little emotional support Isolated from friends, her own parents, and the vibrant life she once had Plagued by guilt, shame, anxiety, and hopelessness—all at 100% Sound familiar? I'll bet many of you have worked with someone like Hiral. Or maybe you've been Hiral at some point in your life. I know I have. T = Testing: The Emotional X-Ray Before we even said hello to Hiral, she completed the Brief Mood Survey—David's ultra-reliable, ultra-short measures of depression, anxiety, anger, happiness, and relationship satisfaction right now, in this moment. Her scores were staggering: Depression: 11/20 (moderate, with "sad," "down," and "hopeless" all elevated) Anxiety: 14/20 (moderate to severe) Anger: 14/20 (same intensity as anxiety) Happiness: 8/20 (very low) Relationship Satisfaction: 10/30 (significant dissatisfaction with her husband) Why this matters: Most therapists never measure how their patients feel. They think they know, but research shows therapist accuracy is around 3-10% on depression, suicidality, anxiety, and anger. Zero percent on suicidal urges. Think about that. Without measurement, you're flying blind. With it, you have an emotional X-ray that shows you exactly where the patient is hurting—and later, exactly how much you've helped (or haven't). TEAM-CBT Pearl: Testing isn't optional. It's the foundation. Measure at the start of every session, and measure again at the end. If you're scared to see the results, that's your ego talking. E = Empathy: The Zero Technique For the first 30-40 minutes, David and I did... nothing. Well, not nothing—we listened. We used the Five Secrets of Effective Communication: Disarming Technique: Finding truth in what Hiral said Thought Empathy: Paraphrasing her thoughts Feeling Empathy: Acknowledging her emotions Inquiry: Asking gentle questions to help her open up Stroking: Conveying warmth and respect But here's the key: we gave her nothing. No advice. No cheerleading. No problem-solving. We call this the Zero Technique—giving the patient nothing is actually giving them everything, because what they want most is to feel understood. The Empathy Pitfall: DO NOT PREACH Early in empathy, it's tempting to: Problem-solve Rescue Educate Advise Cheerlead Help Resist. Your job is to go with your patient to the gates of hell and just be with them there. Checking Our Empathy After about 30 minutes, we asked Hiral to grade us on three dimensions (A, B, C, D, or F): Thought Empathy: How well did we understand her negative thoughts? Feeling Empathy: How well did we acknowledge her emotions? Warmth & Acceptance: Did she feel cared about and accepted? She gave us two A's and hesitated on the third. Why? She didn't feel we could truly understand her cultural context—the joint family system, the rigid in-laws, the isolation from her friends and parents. She felt alone even with us. This was gold. Instead of getting defensive, we leaned in. David shared his own experience living near in-laws with vastly different values. I shared my own struggles with perfectionism and parenting anxiety. Hiral started to cry—not from sadness, but from finally feeling seen. TEAM-CBT Pearl: When you get a failing grade on empathy, celebrate. It's your chance to deepen the connection. Process the failure with your patient, and watch the breakthrough happen. /episode/index/show/feelinggood/id/40625690

498: Live Work with Hiral, Part 1 of 2 04/20/2026

498: Live Work with Hiral, Part 1 of 2 Inside the Therapy Room: A Live TEAM CBT Session with Hiral Part 1 of 2 Overview What an incredible day. David and I had the privilege of working with Hiral, a young mother from India who was drowning in perfectionism, self-criticism, and the crushing weight of trying to be everything to everyone. Over the course of about two hours, we watched her transform from someone scoring 100% on depression, anxiety, guilt, shame, and hopelessness to feeling peaceful, relaxed, and genuinely joyful—with most scores dropping to zero. This wasn't magic. It was TEAM-CBT done systematically, with measurement, genuine empathy, paradoxical agenda setting, and powerful cognitive techniques. And yes, Hiral did most of the heavy lifting herself once we got out of her way. For those of you who attended or are reading this summary, I want to walk you through what happened—not just what we did, but why it worked. Because here's the thing: this will look deceptively simple. That's the trap. TEAM-CBT is among the hardest therapeutic approaches to master, precisely because each step exists on multiple levels and requires you to change before your patients can change. Let's dig in. The Setup: Who Was Hiral? Hiral is a mother of an almost-four-year-old son, living in a joint family in Gujarat, India, with her husband and in-laws. She's also studying to become a TEAM-CBT therapist herself, preparing for her Level 3 certification exam. But beneath these roles, Hiral was suffering: Feeling like a failure as a mother Constant self-criticism and perfectionism Trapped in a rigid family environment with little emotional support Isolated from friends, her own parents, and the vibrant life she once had Plagued by guilt, shame, anxiety, and hopelessness—all at 100% Sound familiar? I'll bet many of you have worked with someone like Hiral. Or maybe you've been Hiral at some point in your life. I know I have. T = Testing: The Emotional X-Ray Before we even said hello to Hiral, she completed the Brief Mood Survey—David's ultra-reliable, ultra-short measures of depression, anxiety, anger, happiness, and relationship satisfaction right now, in this moment. Her scores were staggering: Depression: 11/20 (moderate, with "sad," "down," and "hopeless" all elevated) Anxiety: 14/20 (moderate to severe) Anger: 14/20 (same intensity as anxiety) Happiness: 8/20 (very low) Relationship Satisfaction: 10/30 (significant dissatisfaction with her husband) Why this matters: Most therapists never measure how their patients feel. They think they know, but research shows therapist accuracy is around 3-10% on depression, suicidality, anxiety, and anger. Zero percent on suicidal urges. Think about that. Without measurement, you're flying blind. With it, you have an emotional X-ray that shows you exactly where the patient is hurting—and later, exactly how much you've helped (or haven't). TEAM-CBT Pearl: Testing isn't optional. It's the foundation. Measure at the start of every session, and measure again at the end. If you're scared to see the results, that's your ego talking. E = Empathy: The Zero Technique For the first 30-40 minutes, David and I did... nothing. Well, not nothing—we listened. We used the Five Secrets of Effective Communication: Disarming Technique: Finding truth in what Hiral said Thought Empathy: Paraphrasing her thoughts Feeling Empathy: Acknowledging her emotions Inquiry: Asking gentle questions to help her open up Stroking: Conveying warmth and respect But here's the key: we gave her nothing. No advice. No cheerleading. No problem-solving. We call this the Zero Technique—giving the patient nothing is actually giving them everything, because what they want most is to feel understood. The Empathy Pitfall: DO NOT PREACH Early in empathy, it's tempting to: Problem-solve Rescue Educate Advise Cheerlead Help Resist. Your job is to go with your patient to the gates of hell and just be with them there. Checking Our Empathy After about 30 minutes, we asked Hiral to grade us on three dimensions (A, B, C, D, or F): Thought Empathy: How well did we understand her negative thoughts? Feeling Empathy: How well did we acknowledge her emotions? Warmth & Acceptance: Did she feel cared about and accepted? She gave us two A's and hesitated on the third. Why? She didn't feel we could truly understand her cultural context—the joint family system, the rigid in-laws, the isolation from her friends and parents. She felt alone even with us. This was gold. Instead of getting defensive, we leaned in. David shared his own experience living near in-laws with vastly different values. I shared my own struggles with perfectionism and parenting anxiety. Hiral started to cry—not from sadness, but from finally feeling seen. TEAM-CBT Pearl: When you get a failing grade on empathy, celebrate. It's your chance to deepen the connection. Process the failure with your patient, and watch the breakthrough happen. Next week, Part 2, the exciting conclusion of the live session with Hiral! /episode/index/show/feelinggood/id/40561800

497: Why Isn't TEAM More Popular? 04/13/2026

497: Why Isn't TEAM More Popular? Why Isn't TEAM More Popular? Why Do So Many Therapists Resist TEAM CBT? Featuring Matt May, MD Why has the therapeutic community been so resistant to TEAM? This topic has been a concern to me or many years. To be honest, it isn't new. From the very start of cognitive therapy, when I was first learning it, I began modifying it to make it more dynamic, powerful, and effective. But to be honest, I ran into a small (at the time) of Beck loyalists who branded me as an "outsider," something Beck also did when my book, Feeling Good, began to sell and gain popularity. This saddened and frustrated me, and still does, but it had some great spin-off. On my own, my ideas and approaches grew rapidly, and there was no scarcity of young therapists who wanted to work with me. Below, you will ready Matt's take on why TEAM CBT has not caught on better, followed by my own thoughts. So read, and enjoy, and feel free to share your own thinking on this topic! On the live podcast, you will hear our lively discussion with our beloved and brilliant host, Rhonda! Thanks for listening today! Matt, Rhonda, and David Matt’s take: Hi David, I'm excited to discuss this topic! Also, I agree we would be hard-pressed to cover it in an hour, which I believe is the goal for the podcast. So, why isn’t TEAM isn't more popular? My short answer is that TEAM isn’t more popular because many therapists don’t want to learn it. Those reasons will vary from one person to another and relate to concepts in the model, itself, like ‘process resistance’ and ‘outcome resistance’. While biological factors, like deficits in cognitive flexibility and neuroplasticity, the ‘primacy effect’ and age-related changes in the brain, combined with the complexity of the TEAM model, will make it near-impossible for some folks to learn it, these barriers are hard to address with our current technology For the purpose of this conversation, it probably makes more sense to consider the psychological barriers therapists have to adopting a model that is scientifically proven to be superior to other approaches. As a proponent of TEAM and an instructor, I’d love to know what I’m doing wrong, in presenting the model and how to get more people excited about learning it. While more research would help us see the problem more clearly, here are some factors that likely play a role: It seems humans have a hard time adopting new truths, regardless of the field being considered. I believe it was Schopenhauer who said all new truths go through three phases on the way to acceptance: People will ridicule it, violently oppose it, then say they knew it all along as self-evident! One cause of this is something called the 'primacy effect'. People preferentially retain the first version of a story they hear. If that information is corrected, later, they will continue to believe the first version they heard. Biological Factors play a role in learning, including genetics, aging, illness and toxic exposure. ‘Switching gears’, mentally, is more challenging in people with Schizophrenia and their first-degree relatives, for example. We know that neuroplasticity is greatest in our youth and declines over our lifespan. Hence the importance of early education and attending to our overall health, habits, nutrition and medical care. Socioeconomic and Cultural factors certainly play a role. This is well documented in the book, 'The Emperor's New Drugs', showing how marketing prevailed over science in promoting “antidepressants”. Many therapists in training tell me, 'oh, they wouldn't let me use a measurement tool where I work'. Lack of ‘Critical Thinking’. What people believe often has nothing to do with what is evidence-based or logical. Many people reject global warming despite the evidence and prefer to believe in conspiracy theories. We tend to preferentially believe what someone says if we feel a kinship or loyalty to that person or view them as an ‘expert’. People might believe RFK Jr. when he says immunizations are dangerous, for example, because he is in their political party and in a position of power, rather than review the science for themselves. Sunk-Cost Fallacy: People who have gone through training may have a sense that they have invested too much time and money in their education to discard that model and start afresh. Even if we covered this in just a few minutes, we'd still be up against the hardest part of TEAM to learn, Agenda Setting. Lots of 'Good Reasons' NOT to have open hands, explore topics paradoxically, and reasons this is challenging, technically. So, yeah, we'll have a lot to discuss and I'm looking forward to that! Sincerely, Matt Here is David’s list Taking a page out of your book, Matt, our field is filled with so-called “schools” of therapy that function much like cults, most with a narcissistic “leader” at the helm. In a cult, members are required to be absolutely loyal, and to believe in claims the guru makes that have little or no evidence to back them up. For example, most “schools” of therapy claim to know “the” cause of emotional distress, when the causes of depression and other forms of emotional disturbance are still not known. What I have been suggesting is that we get rid of all the schools of therapy and usher in a new era of science-based, data-driven therapy, which would amount to a revolution in our field. This idea, which I feel passionate about, always meets with stiff and hostel opposition / push back. People just don’t want to hear it. TEAM integrates high-level empathy and compassion with firm accountability. Give Stanford story with Sunny Choi, and the statement that “Stanford graduate students and faculty cannot be held accountable for doing psychotherapy homework. The need insight-oriented therapy!” This angrily issued statement conveyed, actually, two cult-like (to my thinking) components: First, we KNOW that patients should not be asked to do psychotherapy homework between sessions. Second, we KNOW that “insight-oriented therapy” is the treatment, without ever evaluating them. TEAM focuses on the here and now, and emphasize a “fractal” approach to treatment, where the same distortions and self-defeating beliefs will be embedded in the patient’s negative thoughts and feelings every time she or he is upset. So, when you change the present, you have already changed the past. Whereas most therapies have traditionally (and still) focus on the past, thinking they will find the cause of the patient’s distress in some pattern or traumatic event. TEAM focuses on rapid change in the here and now, where as many (most?) therapies focus on talk therapy that unfolds slowly, over a period of months, years, or even more. This DOES provide a powerful financial incentive to do “talk therapy,” since this drastically provides financial security and reduces the incredible pressure of constantly have to find new patients. TEAM is very challenging to learn. I have taught over 50,000 therapists in the past 35 years or more, through my supervision of graduate students and psychiatric residents, my weekly training group at Stanford, and my workshops, including intensive, around the US and Canada. And one lesson that has emerged is just how difficult it is to learn TEAM. It requires a high level of intelligence and aptitude, and an unusual dedication and commitment. A great many of the most important tools, like Assessment of Resistance, and Externalization of Voices with the CAT, Self-Defense, and the Acceptance Paradox, are extremely difficult to learn and master. And most give up, and drop out, in favor of some simpler and more formulaic therapy that is easy to learn. TEAM training requires constant role-playing with specific and immediate feedback on your performance, which includes bot a letter grade (A, B, C, etc.) as well as what you did that was effective, and where you fell short and might need to fine-tune your technique with frequent role reversals, always with feedback. This means lots of criticism along the way, which many (most?) therapists do not like. And although we repeatedly emphasize the philosophy of “joyous failure,” and “learning through failure,” most people do not buy it emotionally. We all want success and compliments! And NOT the “great death” of the self.” The “great death” permeates every phase of the T E A M process. At the T = Testing, you will nearly always learn that your perceptions of your patients feel, and how they feel about you, are way off base. This is critically important, but painful for most, as it is a direct body blow to our “need” to be in the role of “expert.” Unlike most other forms of therapy, we require therapists to measure patients’ feelings, “in the here and now,” at the start and end of every therapy session, using brief, highly reliable scales that assess feelings of depression, suicidal urges, anxiety, anger, and also happiness, as well as relationship satisfaction or discord. These scales function like an “emotional X-ray machine,” allowing therapists for the first time to see exactly how effective or ineffective you were in every therapy session. Can you take it? On the positive side, this information will allow you to fine tune the therapy and learn from all of your patients every day. On the negative side, you may not want to have to “see” your failures before your eyes at every session with every patient. David: Tell the story of Tuesday group patient who proudly showed me her depression (and other scores) over the previous year with one of her patients. . . But there was absolutely no improvement in any scale. This was shocking and it made me very sad. My goal is to get dramatic changes within a single session. This “great death” continues during the E phase. TEAM therapists are required to ask “What’s my grade on empathy” during the session, and also patients fill out the Empathy Scale and other scales on the “Patient’s Evaluation of Therapy Session” right after the session. These scales are set up to make therapist failure common, almost universal at first. A warm and curious dialogue about where the therapist went wrong can revolutionize the therapy and deepen the relationship—quickly. But at what cost to the fragile ego of the insecure shrink? The “great death” continues with A = Paradoxical Agenda Setting. You give up your role as the “expert:” or “helper” or “rescuer,” which many therapist refuse to do, and instead “become” the patient’s subconscious resistance, arguing, with compassion and logic, that there are many GOOD reasons NOT to change. This freaks therapists out! The “great death” continues with the M = Methods phase of the session. I have developed roughly 140 methods to help people challenge distorted negative thoughts and self-defeating beliefs, and have always taught that no one method will work for everyone who’s depressed and anxious. So you will have to try many methods, using the Recovery Circle, to find the one that works for each patient. But these methods are challenging to learn, and most therapists don’t seem to have the intelligence, aptitude, or commitment to learning how to use them. Many of the methods and insights of TEAM or subtle nuances that many therapists do not “get” or perhaps do not want to “get.” Example, the ACT training group, where someone held up the Feeling Good book and said, “We do not want THIS!” They falsely believed that “leaning into” your feelings is always the answer, and wrong believed that TEAM tried to make people happy all the time—called Toxic Positivity—whereas nothing could be further from the truth. In fact, I mentioned healthy negative feelings as early as, I think, Chapter 3 in Feeling Good, “Sadness is Not Depression,” where I told the story of an elderly man who died on the Stanford inpatient medical service one evening when I was a medical student. Much of what I teach is shocking and at odds with what people are taught in graduate school. For example, the idea that most people with depression and anxiety—NOT everybody!—can be effectively treated in a single, extended therapy session. Curses! That sounds horrible! And even worse-sounding is the idea that change typically happens suddenly, at the very moment patients stop believing their distorted thoughts. Of course, since most therapists have not seen these phenomena, due perhaps to not having the skill, they insist instead that David is some type of fool, liar, or con artis. Okee Dokee! People—therapists and patients alike—do not “get” a great many of the key ideas in TEAM. For example, let’s say the socially anxious patient totally believes the thought, “I shouldn’t be so screwed up!” the necessary and sufficient conditions for emotional change. The necessary condition: The Positive Thought (PT) must be 100% true. Rationalizations and half-truths have never helped anybody. The sufficient condition: The PT must drastically reduce your belief in the negative thought. And that’s when your negative thoughts will suddenly change. There is even more of what I teach is shocking and at odds with what people believe. For example, 2,000 years ago Epictetus stated they key premise of all the cognitive therapies: “People are disturbed, not by things, or events, but by the views they have of them”. And recently, our research team has provided proof of this for the first time, in a study of nearly 7,000 users of our Feeling Great app, using sophisticated statistical modeling techniques. So, the three tenants of cognitive therapies, including TEAM, are: First, you FEEL the way you THINK. In other words, all of your positive and negative feelings result from your thoughts in the here-and-now. Second, depression and anxiety are the world’s oldest cons. In other words, your negative thoughts, like “I’m not as good as I should be,” or “I’m a hopeless case,”—will be loaded with many of the ten cognitive distortions and are extremely misleading—but you don’t realize this when you’re upset. You will believe these thoughts with all your heart and feel CERTAIN that they are 100% true. Third, you can CHANGE the way you FEEL. But lots of people will won’t have it. They keep insisting on theories that simply aren’t true—that emotions cause thoughts, for example—and on methods that may have little or no “punch” above and beyond the placebo effect. Story of Tuesday group student who was scolded in her graduate school counseling program for using the words “thought” or cognition during a therapy session. She was told ONLY to focus on feelings. Many people—therapists and patients alike—strongly believe that therapist empathy is THE key to healing. I have developed many powerful empathy tracking and training methods, but our clinical experience and research has shown, over and over, that therapist empathy is NOT the key to healing. They keys involve using TEAM systematically, and the rapid healing happens during the A and M for the most part. But those are the hard parts! Other problems include the idea that we can convert normal human emotional distress into a series of “mental disorders” that are listed in the DSM, the “bible” of the American Psychiatric Association. In TEAM, we consider each patient’s patterns of suffering at the start of therapy, quickly and easily screened by the EASY Diagnostic System, but monitor therapy and patient progress with simple tools that measure feelings, like depression, anxiety, anger, and more. But this is an argument for another day. There’s a lot more issues, too. Have I, David, contributed to the resistance to TEAM? Absolutely I have. I plead guilty as accused, and I’m proud of it. I’m totally aware that people—maybe even you— get turned off by criticism, and naturally recoil to protect your “in group,” as Matt so clearly pointed out, and maintain loyalty to your “leader,” whether it’s Freud, Jung, Beck, Hayes, Rogers, or whoever. People are more emotional than rational, and people can be intentionally cruel and deceptive, too, all in the name of what they believe. We see that in our politics these days too. People believe things that are totally false, and wildly implausible, because the group or leader says it’s true, it’s the way things are. I’m a strong believer that science and truth will win out in the long run. Is this inevitable? I’m not totally confident, and have my doubts, but I am also filled with hope, and look to a future with more therapists like our beloved Matt May, MD and others who have dared to venture in a radically new direction, much like the early astronomers like Galileo and Copernicus who dared to challenge the superstitious teachings of the Catholic church. Those brave and brilliant early souls said, “things are NOT the way you think!” And they used data and mathematical modeling to prove their points. But there were a hundreds years of intimidation and suffering until people finally began to catch on to the then-ridiculous and outrageous ideas that the sun does NOT actually revolve around the earth, and that the earth is NOT the center of the universe. Those NOTS changed history. Can it happen again in the fields of psychiatry and psychotherapy? I hope so, and I’ve been giving my all, in my teaching, research, clinical work and writing, to make this happen. Sadly, I’ve fallen far short of my dream, but I’m thankful every day for what I’ve got, and the wonderful colleagues I’m privileged to know and love. Warmly, David, Matt and Rhonda /episode/index/show/feelinggood/id/40374655

496: Should Therapists Express Their Feelings? Freud's Huge Error! Featuring Matt May, MD 04/06/2026

496: Should Therapists Express Their Feelings? Freud's Huge Error! Featuring Matt May, MD Should Therapists Express Their Feelings? Freud's Huge Error! Featuring Matt May, MD Today we touch base on a really important and highly controversial question: Should therapists express their feelings? Or remain blank slates, as Freud so strongly recommended. We begin with a scholarly and really interesting (oxymoron?) piece that Matt wrote about Freud’s own fear of sharing his feelings, and how that led to the huge mistake called psychoanalysis. At the end of this piece, I will briefly summarize the podcast. Matt’s piece here Matt began by describing a fascinating case of a woman who had a functional neurological disorder. She appeared, in other words, to be unable to walk, but her walking problem was entirely caused by her mind. Often this type of problem is due to the “Hidden Emotion” phenomenon, where the patient is hiding some powerful feeling—from themselves and others—and then that feeling comes out indirectly, as some form of anxiety (very common) or even as a neurological problem, such as apparent paralysis in a limb. Matt, can you briefly summarize your thinking on how her symptoms may have been due to suppressed anger? During the session, the concept of anger came up, and the husband became agitated, and started pounding angrily on the desk. Clearly, of course, his wife was also terrified of him, one of the key dynamics in their dysfunctional marriage. Matt was scared, and decided to say, “I feel scared right now.” The man calmed down instantly. She, too, had been afraid of expressing her feelings. Matt and Rhonda talked about effective and ineffective ways of expressing your feelings. Like everything else in the universe, “I Feel” statements are a two-edged sword. What Matt said—“I feel scared”—was a human statement of vulnerability that did not threaten this many in any way. Matt’s humanness allowed him to lower his defenses and open up as well. But saying, “I feel controlled,” is actually a hidden criticism of the other person, and it will nearly always trigger more aggression and anger. They also discussed setting boundaries, another highly controversial topic, because much of the time, when therapists (or anyone) attempt to set boundaries, it comes across as an attempt to control the other person, to tell them what they can and cannot do, and that has a high probability of triggering more anger, and is an invitation to violate the annoying “limit” you are trying to set. Matt described a common and frustrating dynamic: a woman who kept “forgetting” to do her psychotherapy homework, and instead kept chasing a man who treated her badly. Of course, her behavior caused him to become even more aggressive and abusive. Matt: what was your point here? I didn’t get it in my notes. Any help appreciated! You can be brief, as many words tends to intimidate me. In contrast, a statement like “I’m feeling hurt right now,” is vastly less powerful, since it is simply a gentle, non-aggressive way, of showing how you feel. But by the same token, it is often vastly more powerful than attempts to set limits. These are complicated topics, easily misunderstood. For more information, check out my book Feeling Good Together. Warmly, David, Rhonda and Matt /episode/index/show/feelinggood/id/40374440

Exciting All-New Workshop on Core Beliefs (for Therapists) 03/31/2026

495: Stop Helping! Here’s How. Featuring Thai-An Truong on Codependency 03/30/2026

495: Stop Helping! Here’s How. Featuring Thai-An Truong on Codependency #495 Stop Helping! Here’s How. Featuring Thai-An Truong on Codependency Thai-An Truong, LPC, LADC is a Certified TEAM-CBT Trainer, Level 5 and loves sharing tools and processes to help other therapists feel more confident, effective, and joyful in their work with their clients. In her private practice in Oklahoma, she is passionate about helping people heal from past trauma and OCD. She also has a special interest in helping her clients improve their relationships and overall connection with their partners and loved ones. We often hear the word, co-dependency thrown around. Today’s podcast will be unique: you’ll hear a totally brilliant and lucid explanation of how to treat it within the TEAM CBT model. It will be explained and illustrated with role-playing demonstrations by Rhonda and Thai-An. These demonstrations are fantastic! You’ll love them! But let’s start with what codependency is. I’ll give you my take on it first, as my understanding has been based on observation. I see it as the compulsive urge to help another person who appears to be hurting or struggling. Well, that’s nothing wrong with that, for sure! But where it gets yucky is where there is an ongoing pattern of helping, followed by stuckness on the part of the person who is hurting, ending up with both parties feeling frustrated and angry. We’ve talked about this general topic a great deal on the show, and in fact, TEAM CBT emerged as a radical alternative to the compulsive, codependent “helping” we often see in the community of mental health professionals. And we’ve seen this too, among parents and their children. Rhonda and I have done many podcasts on the topic of “How to Help and How NOT to Help,” (for example, #164: ). And we’ve done many, including a great recent podcast with Dr. Taylor Chesney, on how parents can talk to teens and children without trying to control or scold them—by forming a warm and respectful relationship, using the Five Secrets. According to , codependency involves “excessive emotional or psychological reliance on a partner, often characterized by neglecting one's own needs. The four main types of codependency are the Caretaker, Enabler, Controller, and Adjuster. These roles represent different ways individuals, often with low self-esteem, sacrifice their well-being to manage relationships.” To get things started, Rhonda and Thai-An discuss he various definitions and meanings of co-dependency. Thai-An described an attractive woman she treated who ended up with an alcoholic man who gave her very little in terms of healthy emotional support or love. But she told herself, “He’s the only one who’s there for me. , , I won’t be able to find anyone else.” There’s also a strong dimension of “I NEED to fix this person,” as opposed to asking if they need help, and deciding whether you can actually meet their need. They also pointed out, with example, that “throwing help at people” (as I call it) actually forces them to resist. They talked about the shame involved in codependency, and then illustrated Option B: TEAM -CBT, where empathy is always a crucially important first step. Then you can move to the Triple Paradox, to help the codependent patient illuminate three crucial motivational pieces: Column 1: The positive rewards of trying to “help” this person. Column 2: The downside of changing and giving up this pattern. Column 3: What your codependency shows about you and your core values as a human being that’s positive and awesome. Then after listing 20 to 30 or more powerful reasons to continue acting in a codependent manner, you can ask them if it’s working for them, or if they can think of any reasons to change. So, right away, you are modeling a totally anti-codependent way of “helping” your codependent patient. Only then, if the patient can convince you that they really do want help, Thai-An and Rhonda modeled some kick-ass M = Methods that can be incredibly helpful, including, but not at all limited to: The co-dependency Double Standard Technique. The role play with Rhonda and Thai-An was eye-opening and jaw-dropping! The Devil’s Advocate Technique when tempted to “help.” The Decision-Making Tool The Externalization of Voices And many more. I want to thank you, Thai-An, and you, Rhonda, for a truly phenomenal podcast today. Awesome work! From Rhonda: Speaking for me and Thai-An, it was our pleasure and honor to be on the podcast with you David! And always a pleasure to learn with the brilliant Thai-An, one of the most phenomenal teachers and trainers in the TEAM community. /episode/index/show/feelinggood/id/40374200

494: I'm boring on dating apps. Help! How can I balance TEAM with Life? Do relapses come from out of the blue? 03/23/2026

494: I'm boring on dating apps. Help! How can I balance TEAM with Life? Do relapses come from out of the blue? What if the old techniques don't work now? What can I do if I'm boring on dating apps? How do I balance TEAM CBT with Life? Do relapses come from out of the blue? Carlos continues with his question(s) first addressed on last week’s podcast. He’d recovered from depression using TEAM CBT, but had a question about how to challenge his negative thoughts during a relapse, as well as how to balance TEAM CBT with life. Plus a dating question from a man who’s never had a date! Today’s questions begin here. Should I use a brand-new CBT technique to help me overcome my current negative thoughts? I've been using my previous solutions (Exposure Therapy and Daily Mood Log) however, they don't seem to help out as much as they used to. How do I balance Team CBT and life? I've been having a difficult time finding the right balance between Therapy and Life. Whenever I strictly do therapy, I feel good, but then feel sad that I sacrifice other activities in order to do the therapy. Inversely, whenever I do activities (while only occasionally doing therapy), I feel conned by my anxiety and feel as if I can't enjoy doing my activities. Can you relapse despite having no apparent issues in life? I'm currently on Christmas break, without much pressure to find a job. Yet despite this, I'm feeling more anxious right now than I was in university! How is this possible? Is there perhaps a hidden emotion or desire that I'm not expressing? Regardless of how negative I feel right now, I'm doing my absolute best to stay positive and keep working on myself with Team CBT. I'm looking forward to resolving my anxiety with the help of your awesome tools! It was an honor speaking with you, thank you for reading! -Carlos David’s Answer Great question, and I’ll give you a (hopefully) great answer on the podcast! But here’s the quickie answer. Focus on one specific moment when you’d like to be feeling happier, or when you need help to become the person you want to be. Then use a Daily Mood Log, Habit / Addiction Log (HAL), or Relationship Journal, depending on what’s needed. This is the exact same fractal concept we use in all of TEAM CBT! Warmly, david I am overly sincere and boring on dating apps. What can I do to correct this? Michael writes: Hi Dr burns I am 30 and never dated anyone. Whenever I start chatting on dating apps I seem very boring or sincere person how can I talk to someone in this? Regards, Michael (disguised name) /episode/index/show/feelinggood/id/40246530

493: Yikes! What If I Relapse? 03/16/2026

Feel Better Today: A Powerful App For You 03/11/2026

492: Meet the Fantastic—and Controversial—Dr. David Healy 03/09/2026

492: Meet the Fantastic—and Controversial—Dr. David Healy Meet the Fantastic—and Controversial—Dr. David Healy Psychiatric Drug Companies-- What Are They NOT Telling Us? Today, we are thrilled to interview the famed and courageous Dr. David Healy. I have admired his work for many years, but never imagined I’d have the chance to meet him and chat with him. First things first. You may know Dr. David Healy for some of his highly controversial books, like “The Antidepressant Era,” “Let Them Eat Prozac,” and “Pharmageddon.” But who is he, really? According to AI, Dr. David Healy is a prominent Welsh psychiatrist, psychopharmacologist, and critic of the pharmaceutical industry known for his research on antidepressants, their links to suicide, and exposing industry practices like ghostwriting and disease-mongering, operating through initiatives like RxISK.org to promote drug safety. He has a long history of challenging Big Pharma, facing academic backlash (like losing a University of Toronto post) for his views, and serving as an expert witness in legal cases involving psychotropic drugs, advocating for greater transparency and patient safety. Healy initially worked with pharmaceutical companies, gaining firsthand knowledge of how SSRIs were marketed despite their trial weaknesses, focusing on the oversimplified serotonin hypothesis. He then became a vocal critic, highlighting issues like ghostwriting articles and manipulating academic opinion to sell drugs, leading to conflicts with industry-funded institutions. He founded , a platform for patients to report adverse drug reactions, aiming to make medicines safer. His strong stance (on research linking SSRI antidepressants to increased suicidal thoughts and urges) led to intense and corrosive controversy, including losing a professorship at the University of Toronto (though later settled as a visiting role) and harassment, noted and . In recent years, he has acted as an expert witness in cases involving drug-related suicides and homicides, bringing issues to regulators. In essence, Dr. David Healy is a significant, often controversial, figure dedicated to drug safety, academic integrity, and patient awareness in psychiatry, challenging established narratives and industry power. Taking a deeper dive, AI has added this critically important information: David Healy has discussed numerous examples of conflicts of interest that mainly involve the influence of the pharmaceutical industry on medical research, publication, and practice. Key examples he has highlighted include: Ghostwriting of Articles: Pharmaceutical companies hire medical communication firms to draft research articles or reviews, and then get prominent academics or clinicians to put their names on the papers as the sole or primary authors, a practice known as ghostwriting. The named authors often have little to no involvement in the actual research or writing. Hiding or Misrepresenting Data: Drug companies have concealed unfavorable data or miscoded raw data on drug risks, such as the link between antidepressants and suicidal acts. This manipulation can make a drug appear safer or more effective than it actually is. Biased Clinical Trial Design: Healy notes instances where clinical trials are designed with "tricks," such as using inadequate or excessive doses of comparison medications to make the company's own drug look superior. Marketing-Driven Education: A large portion of continuing medical education (CME) classes for doctors are sponsored by industry. Healy argues this leads to a bias in the information presented to doctors, with an emphasis on the benefits of brand-name drugs rather than an objective assessment of all treatment options. Gifts and Payments to Physicians: Drug companies spend billions annually on marketing directed at doctors, including free samples, sales visits, and small non-educational gifts or lunches. Healy points out that while many doctors believe these gifts don't affect their own prescribing, studies show they influence prescribing patterns and create subtle biases. Industry Influence on Academia: Healy's own experience with a job offer being rescinded at the University of Toronto, which had received a large donation from a drug company (Eli Lilly), is a prominent case he uses to illustrate how industry funding can infringe upon academic freedom and stifle critical research. "Disease Mongering": Healy argues that the pharmaceutical industry often engages in "disease mongering," marketing conditions to the public and physicians to create a market for their products rather than simply addressing genuine medical needs. So that hopefully gives you some idea of the scope of his work, and his vision of transparency and integrity in the reporting one the effectiveness and risks of psychotropic medications. In our conversation today, he emphasized the importance of listening to patients who describe side effects of medications, such as SSRIs, in described the efforts of Big Pharma to suppress such complaints, giving psychiatrists “talking points” to reassure and quiet concerned patients. In general, a main focus of his career has been to challenge and confront the efforts of drug companies to suppress negative information about their products and troublesome and dangerous side effects. He said that one of the rationales the drug companies use is to say that disseminating that type of information will discourage many potential patients from using their products, and therefore miss out on the potential benefits of the medications. In fact, they have a name for this, “treatment hesitancy,” and discourage open discussion of negative effects for this reason. I asked Dr. Healy if he’s experienced direct negative pushback from drug companies, and he gave a surprising answer—he said no, that the major pushback he’s gotten has actually been from colleagues—psychiatrists who have bought the party line disseminated by the drug manufactures. For example, when he gave his famous talk at the University of Toronto on the increase in suicidal urges associated with SSRI antidepressants, a famous psychopharmacologist, Dr. Charlie Nemeroff, got him fired. Here’s the story on Dr. Nemeroff, According to AI: In the late 2000s, Nemeroff faced investigations and sanctions from Emory University for failing to disclose significant speaking and consulting fees from pharmaceutical companies like GlaxoSmithKline, raising questions about research integrity and conflicts of interest, and . Although the antidepressant effects of SSRIs are controversial and hotly debated, their effects on the nervous system are not. Dr. Healy’s research indicates that they have a suppression effect on the nervous system, which dulls the senses, and this can happen within 1 to 2 days. One of the more troublesome of these effects is called “genital numbing,” which affects 9 out of 10 people talking SSRIs. This can result in difficulties with sexual arousal and greatly delayed orgasm, and apparently these effects can persist long after drug discontinuation. He said that these sensory effects can develop quickly, within a day or two of starting the medications. Even more chilling, he said that the problem can actually get worse when you discontinue the medication, and can sometimes persist for life. In addition, quite a few individuals have “bad trips” on SSRIs, although a minority clearly have “good trips.” He said the best thing to do for a bad trip is to take the patient off of the medication immediately—and NOT increase the dose. He confirmed my impression that a common error with all antidepressants is to increase the dose—which simply increases the side effects. In addition to the genital numbing described above, he said the SSRIs cause “emotional numbing,” which means a decreased capacity for joy as well as sorrow. One of the main activities in David Healy’s life has been listening to patients, rather than discounting their complaints when they describe negative effects of medications. When asked about what alternatives to drugs he might recommend to someone struggling with depression, he said that sometimes, just doing nothing will be helpful, since most mood problems clear up spontaneously in 12 to 14 weeks. He said that most are simply human problems, not “mental disorders,” but real-life problems, like relationship conflicts or social issues. Although we did not discuss it extensively on the show, I would point out that skillful, drug-free therapy with TEAM CBT can sometimes help as well, and that recent research has confirmed rapid often dramatic mood improvements with individuals using the Feeling Great app, which has been entirely free to anyone since the summer of 2025. Finally, we do not advise anyone to discontinue or modify the dosages of any medications you have been prescribed without consultation with your doctor. The information in the Feeling Good podcast is of a strictly educational nature, and is not intended as treatment or medical advice. We thank you for listening to today’s shocking but incredibly important dialogue with one of the pioneers and champions of greater ethical integrity and transparency in the psychiatric profession. It is sad, indeed, that we don’t have more visionary critical thinkers like Dr. David Healy! David (H), Rhonda, and David (B) /episode/index/show/feelinggood/id/40246085

491:Ask David: Can Introverts be Helped? How Can I Enhance Happiness? 03/02/2026

491:Ask David: Can Introverts be Helped? How Can I Enhance Happiness? Ask David, #491, featuring our beloved Dr. Matthew May. Can Introverts be helped? How can we enhance our happiness? What's the best movie to watch if your father rejected you? How can I identify my feelings? The answers to the first two questions are brief and were written prior to the show. Listen to the podcast for a more in-depth discussion of each question. Today’s Questions Anonymous asks: Can an introvert become more extroverted? Or are these personality traits “fixed” and unchanging? Seve asks: I know that TEAM can be super helpful for negative thoughts and feelings, but what are the best tools to enhance happiness and become the person we want to be? I have a patient whose father rejected her when she was young. What would be a good movie that I could recommend for her? Anonymous asks: I don’t know how to identify my feelings. Can you help? Today’s Answers Question #1 Anonymous asks: Can an introvert become more extroverted? Or are these personality traits “fixed” and unchanging? Dear Dr. Burns, I hope this message finds you well. I would like to ask you a question regarding personality traits. Some articles suggest that introversion and extraversion are relatively stable characteristics—meaning that an introverted person cannot truly become more extroverted, and vice versa (or at least not to a great extent). They also propose that introverts tend to lose energy in social situations and recharge when alone, whereas extroverts gain energy from social interaction. I’m very curious to know your thoughts on this topic. Do you believe an introverted person can become more extroverted? And in your view, is an introvert’s need for solitude more of a true "need" or a "want"? Thank you very much for your time and for the inspiration your work has provided to so many of us. Warm regards, Anonymous David’s reply If you like, I can make this an Ask David question for an upcoming podcast! It’s a cool question and raises many questions: Do “personalities” even “exist?” Is this like the question, “Do we have a self?” It also focuses on the issue of whether we can change and grow, or whether there is some invisible barrier beyond which we can grow any further, due to some inherent “limit” due to our “personality type.” Best, david Question #2 Dr. Dear David: I know first-hand how helpful TEAM CBT can be to address negative thoughts and emotions but our path to a happier life and to the person we want to be never really ends. Are there any other tools that Dr. David may have come across and can suggest for someone's growth? Thank you, Steve David’s Answer Great question, and I’ll give you a (hopefully) great answer on the podcast! But here’s the quickie answer. Focus on one specific moment when you’d like to be feeling happier, or when you need help on become the person you want to be, and then use a Daily Mood Log, Habit / Addiction Log (HAL), or Relationship Journal, depending on what’s needed. This is the exact same fractal concept we use in all of TEAM CBT! Warmly, david Question #3 Hi podcast crew: I have a patient whose father rejected her when she was young. What would be a really good movie to recommend do her? David's Answer Sadly, I lost my notes from this podcast, but in general David and Matt found this question somewhat offensive, as it suggests you can chase a problem (father rejected me) with a method, in this case recommending a good movie. We, instead, would recommend TEAM CBT, which is real therapy, and not gimmicks. Movies can be rewarding, but that’s not the same as effective therapy! Rhonda asked David and Matt what was wrong with recommending a movie in the same way we recommend books for clients to read. Have a listen to hear their response. Question #4 Anonymous asks: I don’t know how to identify my feelings. Can you help? David's Answer Rhonda said one of her clients could not identify their feelings, unless they have the Feelings Chart in front of them. David thought that anyone could identify their feelings and explained. One simple way is to identify a specific moment when you were upset and wanting help. Think about what was going on, who wee you with, where were you, etc. Then review the Feeling Words charts, which I will link to, to see how many, and which ones, resonate with how you were feeling at that time, or how you may still be feeling. Another way is to draw a Stick Figure of yourself, and put a bubble above its head. Then imagine the Stick Figure is upset and put the Stick Figure’s negative thoughts and feelings in the bubble. They don’t have to be your feelings and thoughts, just make some up. Do it now—on paper! DON’T just think about it. That never works! Have you done it yet? No? That’s what I suspected. If you ever DO want the answer to your question, so the stick figure on paper and then write me back. Thanks! Finally, you can listen to the podcast on "I Feel" Statements, and spend one week telling five people a day how you feel, using words from the Feeling Words Chart. For example, when checking groceries you could tell the clerk, "I'm feeling happy because we have such beautiful weather today." Or, "I'm feeling really frustrated with politics this morning!" Or whatever. Thanks for listening today! Matt, Rhonda, and David /episode/index/show/feelinggood/id/40060005

490: Dr. Taylor Chesney on Sexting, Bullying, and Social Media 02/23/2026

490: Dr. Taylor Chesney on Sexting, Bullying, and Social Media Sexting, Bullying, and Social Media-- A Compassionate, Practical Guide for Parents of Teens Today, we welcome back one of our favorite guests, Taylor Chesney, director of the Feeling Good Institute in New York City. Taylor specializes in TEAM-CBT with children and adolescents and brings a rare combination of clinical expertise and real-life wisdom as the mother of four. Parents everywhere are worried about social media, sexting, porn, bullying, and the fear that their kids are doing “who knows what” behind closed doors. In this episode, Taylor offers a refreshing and deeply practical message: the solution isn’t better apps, stricter rules, or surveillance—it’s connection. Why Blaming Technology Misses the Point Teen brains are still developing. They’re impulsive, thrill-seeking, and wired for belonging and validation. Give teens instant access to peers and social media, and mistakes are inevitable. Taylor emphasizes that technology itself isn’t good or bad—it amplifies what’s already happening in a teen’s emotional world. The real question isn’t how to eliminate technology, but how parents can guide kids in using it safely and thoughtfully. The Real Protective Factor: Communication Parents often ask, “What app should I install?” or “How do I stop this?” Taylor suggests these questions lead to dead ends. What truly protects teens is a relationship where they feel: understood rather than judged supported rather than interrogated safe coming to parents after a mistake As Taylor explains, for most teens it’s not if they’ll face a difficult online situation—it’s when. The goal is to make sure they come to you when it happens. How to Talk So Teens Will Open Up Using the Five Secrets of Effective Communication, especially the Disarming Technique, parents can shift from policing to coaching. Instead of: “Why were you on your phone?” Try: “Help me understand what was going on for you.” This approach reduces secrecy and increases trust. Porn, Sexting, and Shame Discovering porn or sexting can trigger panic and anger in parents—but shaming almost always backfires. Taylor suggests responding with curiosity and empathy: “What was that like for you?” “What do you understand about the difference between porn and real intimacy?” Sexting often begins innocently—seeking connection, validation, or closeness—but once an image is sent, control is lost. Open conversations help teens think ahead without feeling judged or controlled. Parents can also teach teens simple, self-respecting responses like: “I care about you, but I don’t need to send that to prove it.” Bullying and Online Drama Online bullying mirrors real-life dynamics—but faster, more public, and more permanent. Taylor shares concrete skills teens can use: Pause before responding Don’t engage when emotions are high Exit or mute toxic chats Involve an adult early Helpful phrases teens can practice include: “This chat is getting mean—I’m stepping out.” “I’m not comfortable with this.” “Let’s take a break.” The Big Takeaway Mistakes—by teens and parents—are inevitable. The real danger isn’t errors; it’s secrecy. When kids know they can come to their parents without fear of shame or punishment, they make better decisions and recover more quickly when things go wrong. As Taylor puts it: “The kids with the best relationships with their parents make the best decisions.” Thanks for listening, and heartfelt thanks to Taylor for this wise, compassionate, and deeply reassuring conversation. — David, Rhonda, and Taylor /episode/index/show/feelinggood/id/39896430

Feel Better Fast: A Short Message from Dr. Burns 02/17/2026

489: Meet Richard Lam, Master TEAM CBT Teacher and Therapist 02/16/2026

489: Meet Richard Lam, Master TEAM CBT Teacher and Therapist Meet Richard Lam-- Master TEAM CBT Teacher and Therapist! Today we chat with Richard Lam. Richard is a licensed Marriage and Family Therapist in private practice in Mountain View, California. He is a graduate of Palo Alto University. He currently provides short-term therapy for anxiety, OCD, habits/addictions, depression, and relationship concerns using Cognitive Behavioral Therapy. Richard also trains other therapists in David Burn's model of CBT called TEAM-CBT Therapy. He is a certified Level 5 Master Therapist and Trainer in TEAM-CBT Therapy. And today, Richard has gifts for you! They are fantastic! See below! I began by asking Richard how he got interested in teaching. When he was first learning, he was tutored by Dr. Angela Krumm, an advanced TEAM CBT practitioner and one of the three founders of the Feeling Good Institute. He was loving the training, but one day she said, "That's all I can teach you. Now you have to start teaching!" And that started the wagon rolling down the hill. Richard is particularly interested in developing free self-help tools for patients, but also runs a special training class for TEAM CBT therapists who themselves want to become trainers. It meets in-person at the FGI office on Mondays from 12 to 2 PM. If interested, contact Richard (contact information is at bottom of show notes.) Richard is one of our most articulate TEAM CBT teachers, and is renown for some of his live demonstrations of specific techniques, like Forced Empathy. He has created a series of multi-page interactive teaching guides for a variety of techniques, so you can learn exactly how to do the Double Standard Technique, or the Externalization of Voices in a simple, clear, step-ty-step manner. Here are links to several examples. Check them out and feel free to share them with your patients if you are a TEAM therapist. These links are all kick ass! Check them out and do the exercises. You'll be glad you did! s t Richard tells us that mental health works a lot like physical health. When we don’t regularly care for our bodies, things start to deteriorate and the same is true for our minds. These tools give you a way to keep nurturing your mental health so you can maintain a strong, healthy mind. Richard and I also discussed Acceptance--one of the most difficult concepts for patients and therapists alike to "get." I was delighted to learn he has a five-point plan to help people grasp this concept. Richard's Five Steps to Acceptance 1. The Win-Win Principle: How can I see this loss as a win? In high school, Richard had a patient whose heart was set on making the varsity basketball team, and was heartbroken when he only made the junior varsity team. But then he got to thinking that it would be fun to be the start on the JV team because his best friend is also going to be in JV. He relaxed and started to enjoy his practices with the team. And He was promptly promoted to the varsity team! 2. Remember the butterfly effect! Richard described getting angry and frustrated when he was late for an important appointment, and the car in front of him was moving slowly and caused a delay at a red light. His first impulse was to get angry and insist it SHOULDN'T have happened. But then, in reflection, he thought: "Wait a minute. This delay will change the entire trajectory of the rest of my life. And who knows, this could have save my life from some future tragedy if the trajectory of my life had been on time." 3, Growth mindset I have always thought of this important idea in simple terms. There is really no such "thing," from a Buddhist perspective, as "success" or "failure." These are just experiences. But often things do not turn out as one hoped. Instead of caving in, giving up, or feeling depressed or frustrated, although those are perfectly reasonable human experiences, you can accept your failure and view it as an opportunity for growth and learning. Our 9 month old grandson has reminded me that when we are learning to walk, we "fail" constantly, falling over, etc. But these are steps in learning that eventually culminates in the ability to walk--which is a miracle! 4. The spiritual view Acceptance can be thought of as letting go of judgement. Richard treated a woman who was angry at God because she could not have children, and she had always dreamed of having a big family. But from a medical perspective, her anger and constant agitation were actually the main reason she couldn't get pregnant. Shen she began working on reducing her anger using TEAM CBT, she was able to relax, and accept her fate with greater in peace. And then she suddenly got pregnant! I, David, have seen this on many occasions. Check out Podcast #7f9, one of our most popular podcasts ever, with Daisy: "What is the Secret of a Meaningful Life?" Or Podcasts 268 - 269, featuring live work with our beloved Dr. Carly Zankman. Or #349: "What if my family rejects me?" All of these podcasts were amazing, and resulted in rapid pregnancies! 5. Empathy vs anger Richard described getting VERY angry when someone broke into his car and stole a bunch of stuff, but then asked himself why they did it. He realized that they were probably struggling and desperate for money--for drugs, for food, for family. Understanding someone’s story can help lower the anger that you feel. Richard, Rhonda, and David /episode/index/show/feelinggood/id/39896300

If You're Procrastinating Right Now, Listen to This 02/11/2026

488: Meet the Incredible Dr. David Antonuccio, Part 2 of 2 02/09/2026

488: Meet the Incredible Dr. David Antonuccio, Part 2 of 2 (featured photo shows David, his wife Yvonne, and son, Joey, when young) Meet the Incredible Dr. David Antonuccio, Part 2 of 2 Shrink, Songwriter, and Hero Today we continue our conversation with my dear friend and esteemed colleague, Dr. David Antonuccio, a true scholar, clinician, researcher, musician, and champion of scientific transparency. The Nicotine Patch Study David revisited his landmark research on the nicotine patch, a costly trial involving roughly 600 participants who were randomly assigned to receive either a real nicotine patch or a sham patch. The goals were to assess safety and efficacy. The safety data looked reassuring. However, the efficacy findings were unexpected: the placebo patch worked just as well as the active nicotine patch in reducing smoking. The sponsoring company published the safety data but refused to publish—and refused David access to—the efficacy findings, which showed no advantage for the nicotine patch. David writes: "Notice the 48 week follow-up data were excluded in this paper despite the fact that they were available. That really annoyed me. I also now believe that the original version of the paper was ghostwritten and ghost analyzed by the industry folks.in other words. I’m not sure that the authors ever had access to the “raw” data before they were analyzed." This was important because there was a decrease in smoking DURING the study among those wearing the patch, and getting their "fix" of nicotine that way. . . but what happened AFTER the study? David writes: "." Notice that this paper was not published until three years later, when the Nicotine Patch had already been heavily advertised and sold on the market. This early experience in his career revealed the tension between marketing interests which focus on sales, and scientific interests which focus on truth and transparency—a daunting and frustrating pattern that would emerge again and again in his career. Expert Testimony in a Tragic Criminal Case David then described expert testimony he provided in a deeply troubling legal case. A 72-year-old woman, happily married for 50 years and a respected kindergarten teacher, had recently been prescribed Paxil, along with Ambien and Ativan. She abruptly, and without memory, woke up in the middle of the night and stabbed her husband 200 times and was subsequently arrested for homicide. There was no jury trial; instead, a plea bargain was used to determine sentencing. Dr. David Antonuccio was called as an expert witness in her defense. He described Dr. David Healy’s research documenting a significant increase in both suicidal and violent urges among some patients taking SSRIs, especially Paxil. He argued that this woman’s bizarre behavior was consistent with a drug-induced dissociative or fugue state. Based in part on David’s testimony, the charge was reduced to manslaughter, and the judge sentenced her to time served, allowing her to return home to her children. For more on this topic: Black Box Warnings and Patient Rights David also emphasized the urgent need to revise Black Box warnings to reflect the full range of possible toxic or dissociative effects of psychiatric medications—not just suicidality. He has long advocated for a Patient Bill of Rights to ensure scientific transparency and informed consent. A Surprising Conversation with Dr. John Nash David shared a fascinating personal story about calling Dr. John Nash, whose life inspired the award-winning film A Beautiful Mind. In the movie, Nash’s recovery from schizophrenia is portrayed as medication-dependent. However, Nash told David directly that this was not true—the medication narrative was added to the script, possibly out of concern that portraying his recovery without meds might discourage viewers from taking prescribed medications. Nash said: “What saved me was the support of family and friends.” Music, Truth, and “Buzz” David is also a talented songwriter. One of his songs, addresses the emotional and ethical issues surrounding electroconvulsive therapy (ECT). The inspiration came from a man in the Midwest who was legally ordered to undergo ECT against his will. A widespread public outcry ultimately convinced the judge to rescind the order. Forgiveness and “In the Air Tonight” One of David’s favorite songs is Phil Collins’ “,” which he sees as a deeply spiritual musical meditation on forgiveness—a theme David considers one of the most powerful psychological forces we possess. David explains that the Phil Collin’s song is about forgiveness, but more indirectly and specifically about the songwriter’s inability to forgive. And yes—David sang it live for us on the podcast! You might be interested in this chapter that David coauthored on Thank you for joining us today. And heartfelt thanks to you, Dr. David Antonuccio, for your gifts of enlightened skepticism, ethical courage, incisive scientific thinking, and soulful musical talent. David, Rhonda, and David /episode/index/show/feelinggood/id/39896200

487: Meet the Incredible Dr. David Antonuccio, Part 1 of 2 02/02/2026

487: Meet the Incredible Dr. David Antonuccio, Part 1 of 2 Stories from a Giant and Gadfly Discover the Protest Music of !-- like "The Antidepressant Blues!" Today, we are delighted to spend some time with a dear friend and highly esteemed colleague, Dr. David Antonuccio. David is a retired Clinical Psychologist and Professor Emeritus in the Dept. of Psychiatry and Behavioral Sciences at the University of Nevada, Reno, School of Medicine. In addition to his academic work, David had his own clinical practice for 40 years. He has published over 100 academic articles and multiple books, primarily on the treatment of depression, anxiety, or smoking cessation. Since his retirement from practice in 2020, he has been making music as part of a duo called RainFall, with his musical partner Michael Pierce. Their music can be found on Spotify, Apple music, and Soundcloud, among other streaming services. I first became familiar with David when a colleague recommended his article entitled: “Psychotherapy versus medication for depression: challenging the conventional wisdom with data,” which was published in Professional Psychology: Research and Practice way back in 1995. The article blew my socks off. In the first place, he had come to the many of the same conclusions I had come to, that antidepressants had few “real” effects above and beyond their placebo effects. However, he also had incredible insights into some of the problems and loopholes with drug company research studies on antidepressants, so I tried to get as many colleagues and students as possible to read that article. Although I had never met David, he became my hero. One day, while I was giving one of my two-day CBT workshops in Nevada, I was singing his praises and urging participants to read that classic article, but, unexpectedly, some people started chuckling. At a break, I asked someone why people had been laughing. They said, “Didn’t you know that David Antonuccio is here attending this workshop? He was out visiting the bathroom when you were singing his praises, so he didn’t hear you!” And that’s how we met! I couldn’t believe my good fortune in meeting this brilliant and humble man in person. And to my good fortune, we became good friends right off the bat and eventually did a lot of fun professional work together, like our exciting conference challenging the chemical imbalance theory of depression which we called the Rumble in Reno. I was also proud to be included as a co-author in a popular article with David and William Danton reviewing the brilliant work of Irving Kirsch. Kirsch had re-analyzed all the data on antidepressants in the FDA archives and concluded that the chemicals called “antidepressants” had few, if any, clinically significant effects above and beyond their placebo effects. In that paper, we also emphasized the ongoing power struggle between the needs of science and the needs of marketing. Science is devoted to discovering and reporting the truth, based on research, regardless of where it leads, while marketing, sadly, is ultimately loyal to the bottom line, even if deception is required. And here is the full reference: Antonuccio, D. O., Burns, D., & Danton, W. G. (2002). ? Prevention and Treatment, 5, Article 25. Web link: http://journals.apa.org/prevention/volume5/toc-jul15-02.htm I was sad when David retired from his clinical, teaching, and research career a number of years ago in order to spend more time on creating and recording music because, a passion he’d put on the shelf during the most active years of his career. I felt we’d lost an important and courageous leader in the behavioral sciences, and felt an emptiness, like an important pioneer was suddenly missing. The following link provides a highly readable brief overview of I was thrilled to learn just recently that David has partly resumed his role as gadfly of the behavioral sciences, rejoining the fight for science, ethics and for truth, regardless of where that leads or whose feathers are ruffled. And now, we sit down together to reminisce about his personal life and experiences with many of the greats in our field, like Dr. David Healey, Irving Kirsch, and others who have also stood up for the truth, based on their research, in spite of intense opposition from the establishment. And, today David also brings us his music, with his colleague, Michael Pierce, l. Some of his music has psychiatric / psychological themes, like his “,” Some of David’s music has humanistic and political themes. He said: Here's a song we just released yesterday that i will assume would not be relevant to the podcast. It is called Final Embrace and was inspired by a heart-breaking international wire photo of a Salvadoran immigrant father hugging his daughter, both deceased, in the rio grande in 2019. David’s two-man group, RainFall, wrote and recorded the original acoustic version of this song in 2020. He explains: We decided to record a more dynamic updated version of the song with some electric guitar chords, electric bass, and drums. We are calling it “Final Embrace Electric”. The story is still heart-breaking, and it still makes me cry to sing it. And here are the heart-breaking lyrics: Final Embrace Electric (For Oscar and Valeria) By RainFall (David Antonuccio and Michael Pierce) I’m sorry I couldn’t help you I’m sorry you lost your life You took a deadly risk I’m sorry for your wife What were you supposed to do? Stay home and watch your family die? Or take a chance at freedom Reach for the sky Some say you should have known better They say that you are a criminal But they don’t know your fear, your pain, your hunger For them it’s the principle Some say we were here first It’s not our problem Despite your dire thirst We’re full, no more asylum Let’s ask them what they would do If their family were faced with danger If they’re honest, they’d take the chance Hope for kindness from a stranger You tried to get in the front door But it was slammed closed So you swam the deadly current Despite the perilous flow You never lost your grip Though the river was not crossable Only another parent can know How that is even possible Everyone can tell you loved your daughter Even in that place You never let her go It was your final embrace I’m sorry I couldn’t help you I’m sorry you lost your life You took a deadly risk I’m so sorry for your wife Everyone can tell you loved your daughter Even in that place You never let her go It was your final embrace Your final embrace It was your final embrace It was your final embrace Thank you for joining us today. Stayed tuned for Part 2 of the David Antonuccio interview next week! David, Rhonda, and David /episode/index/show/feelinggood/id/39896065

486: Doctor, why won’t you ever tell me how you really feel? 01/26/2026

486: Doctor, why won’t you ever tell me how you really feel? “Doctor, why won’t you ever tell me how you really feel?” Therapist Self-Disclosure-- Featuring Dr. Carly Zankman This week, Dr. Carly Zankman joins us to discuss a really interesting and controversial topic—self-disclosure by a therapist. When is it helpful? And when is it an ethics violation? When I was a psychiatric resident, my supervisors (mainly psychoanalytic) cautioned me NEVER to share my feelings with patients. This felt really awkward at time, but is there some wisdom in that advice? And if so, what IS the wisdom? How does it work or help? And if that rule—never sharing your feelings or personal life--is too rigid, then when and how should we share our feelings and personal experiences with our patients? What is the goal, and what are the best practices? As most of you know, I have often been extremely critical of what I was taught as a psychiatric resident, thinking the teachings were based more on tradition than on science or data. And when it came to never share your feelings, I sometimes used to think about this issue along these lines: Let’s assume that one of our jobs is to help our patients become more vulnerable and genuine, by sharing how they really feel inside instead of acting fake and always presenting a happy or professional face to the world. That goal seems reasonable, and it’s a prime goal of a great many therapists. But how are we supposed to accomplish that goal by acting fake and hiding our own feelings? That just did not seem to make sense to me! But there are lots of traps when it comes to sharing your feelings. What if the patient is attracted to you, or vice versa? What if you do not like the patient, or feel turned off by them or annoyed with them? In today’s podcast, we will try to sort out some of these questions, with help from the vivacious and brilliant Carly Zankman, Psy.D. (INSERT CARLY’S BIOSKETCH AND BRIEF DESCRIPTION OF HER TEAM CBT CLINICAL WORK IN MOUNTAIN VIEW, California. Carly described being taught similar things in graduate school, cautioning the students against opening up in a personal way during sessions. However, one of her supervisors listened to one of her sessions with a patient, and said, “the greatest gift you bring to therapy is just opening up and bringing your own, genuine and authentic self into the room.” Carly described being taught similar things in graduate school, cautioning the students against opening up in a personal way during sessions. However, one of her supervisors listened to one of her therapy sessions with a patient, and said, “Your greatest gift is bringing your own, genuine and authentic self into the room,” and from that point forward, everything shifted in how she viewed her role in the therapeutic relationship. Carly describes working with a patient recently and receiving a 19 / 20 on the Empathy scale at the end of the session. Although 9 out of 10 therapists would say that’s a terrific, near-perfect score, on our scoring key it is rated as a failing grade. That’s because the patient is telling you that you didn’t quite “get” something about them, or didn’t quite connect with them in a completely warm and supportive way. Carly’s patient was a 40 year old recently re-married woman with a new baby, and struggling with a lot of regret, guilt, shame, depression, and anxiety. Carly decided on a hunch it might be a good idea to share her personal story, since she saw this woman as a mirror image of herself. Carly asked the patient if she wanted Carly to share her story, and this patient lit right up and was excited. It turned out to be tremendously helpful and was what she needed to believe Carly’s empathy was real and not phony. The patient said that in the past she’d had many therapists, but none of them had ever share their personal experiences or feelings. Why was that so helpful? How does it work? And what are some red lines that you do NOT want to cross as a therapist? These are just a few of the ideas we discussed on today’s podcast. We listed and briefly discussed a few of the many situations where it might NOT make sense to share our feelings or experiences with patients. Rhonda pointed out that if you’ve had a traumatic experience and you’re feeling quite depressed, anxious, or angry, and have not yet had the chance to do your own personal work, it would not be the best idea to share it with your patient, because you might be using the patient as your own therapy or support network. You also would not share feelings of sexual or romantic attraction to a patient strong personal feelings of unresolved depression, anxiety, or anger Some feelings you might share with your patient, but only if you have the great therapeutic skill to do so in a helpful, illuminating way, such as feelings of dislike or anger toward the patient. We also discussed the danger of therapy degenerating into a paid friend relationship, and asked how that differed from the work of Dr. Irvin Yalom, the famous Stanford psychiatrist who taught us that developing a genuine human relationship between the therapist and patient IS the goal of therapy. Finally, we exchanged ideas about the model of therapy as a “corrective emotional experience,” and none of us seemed to take kindly to that model of therapy. Thanks for listening today! And thanks for the illuminating information from our brilliant and bubbly guest, Dr. Carly Zankman! Thanks for listening today! Carly, Rhonda, and David /episode/index/show/feelinggood/id/39311600

485: Ask David: Schizophrenia; OCD--What REALLY Works? 01/19/2026

484: Live Work with Madeleine, I'm Helpless! Part 3 of 3 01/12/2026

484: Live Work with Madeleine, I'm Helpless! Part 3 of 3 Live Work with Madeleine I'm Helpless! Part 3 of 3 Today, we are pleased to present the live and unedited follow-up session with Madeleine, a loving mother who became terrified when she realized that her oldest beloved daughter might be in mortal danger during her hear abroad while in college. Part 3 of 3 We were a bit rushed near the end of M = Methods in Part 2 because of a mistake that I (David) made. I forgot that we had extended this webinar by 30 minutes, so we wouldn’t be rushed at the end, so I wrongly concluded we were running out of time when we weren’t! In order to complete our work, we scheduled Part 3 several weeks later to do the following critical pieces of the work with Madeleine. Additional work with the Externalization of Voices to make sure she could knock all of her self-critical thoughts out of the park. Cognitive Flooding, using the magazine article she was triggered by to prompt the anxiety. The idea is to make yourself as anxious as possible for as long as possible, until the anxiety and panic eventually loses its punch and becomes boring. This will be one of the first times we have illustrated this technique live in a video-recorded session. Any other loose ends that may have emerged since our first session with the wonderful Madeleine! We did some cognitive flooding, urging Madeleine to close her eyes and describe her most terrifying fantasy involving her daughter's abduction by a sociopathy. We encourage her to make herself as anxious as possible, and within minutes she was at 100% and sobbing. Then we did some "memory" rescripting as we had promised her at the start, and part way through there was an unexpected surge of anger, that seemed to come from out of the blue, although the circumstances of the fantasy were clearly more than enough to trigger rage. Using the technique called "Affect Bridging," I asker her whether the anger she was now feeling might trace back to some earlier traumatic event in her life, perhaps when she was young, and this was confirmed. She described a profoundly troubling indecent involve her mother and dad shortly before they got divorced. There was a tremendous amount of emotion packed into today's follow-up session, almost non-stop, in fact. We look forward to seeing Madeleine's end-of-session Brief Mood Survey and Evaluation of Therapy Session. Jill and David assigned follow-up homework for her, including 15 minutes per day reading the terrifying article from People Magazine that had initially triggered her in the beauty salon. We want to thank you, Madeleine for your courage in being so open and real, and for giving us all a unique opportunity for some incredible learning, and also the chance to get to know you at a deep a genuine level! Thanks for listening to these three podcasts. We hope you enjoyed them and learned something useful and helpful, especially if you’ve also been struggling with feelings of depression and anxiety, or if you're a mental health professional wanting to take a deeper dive in to how TEAM CBT can sometimes produce extremely rapid healing, even from severe feelings of depression, anxiety, and despair. Madeleine, Jill, Rhonda, and David Following the session, Madeleine sent us the following feedback on the session via email: Hi Jill and David, Completed after session yesterday, but in my state of emotional fatigue, forgot to hit send! Brief Mood Survey after session: Depression: 3 / 20 (minimal) Suicidal urges: 0 / 12 (none) Anxiety: 8 / 20 (mildly elevated) Anger: 9 / 20 (mild/moderately elevated) Happiness: 12 / 20 (low) Relationship Satisfaction: 29 / 30 (nearly perfect) Evaluation of Therapy Session Empathy: 20 / 20 (perfect score) Helpfulness: 20 / 20 (perfect score) Satisfaction: 8 / 8 (perfect score) Commitment: 8 /8 (perfect score) Neg feelings: 4 (high, range = 0- 4) Difficulties with Q: 2 (medium, range = 0- 4) What did you like the Least: exposure was pain. It feels very heavy and exhausting. And i understand, necessary to healing. What did you like the Most: David’s “bridging” my affect states to discover my rage source. Jill’s keeping us on track and making connection from my present worry about daughter’s safety to past feelings of betrayal, losing trust, and resulting anger in my dad, a trusted figure. You both hit the nail on the head so many times in the session to uncover the deeper, ugly, messy, dark pools that lie within me i choose to keep safely sealed tight and out of the light. Postscript: I just completed day 1 of exposure in re reading the awful article. All the anxiety and fear resurfaced along with new feelings of revenge, determination, appreciation for the authors who are perhaps trying to help the family by publishing this. Ick. Best Regards, Madeleine Again, a big thanks to you Madeleine, and we will watch closely as you continue your courageous daily exposure work, and look forward to the day when you have won this battle! Warmly, david /episode/index/show/feelinggood/id/38993005

483: Live Work with Madeleine, I'm Helpless! Part 2 of 3 01/05/2026

483: Live Work with Madeleine, I'm Helpless! Part 2 of 3 Live Work with Madeleine I'm Helpless! Part 2 of 3 Today, we are pleased to present the exciting conclusion of our work with Madeleine, a loving mother who fears that her eldest daughter might be in mortal danger during her year abroad. Last week, you heard about the T = Testing and E = Empathy phase of the live work with Madeleine, a mother feeling intense panic and helplessness and inadequacy because she fears that her daughter could be in grave danger of abduction and worse. This week, we will focus on A = Paradoxical Agenda Setting, using the Miracle Cure Question, Magic Button, Positive Reframing, and Magic Dial to see if we can melt away her resistance to change. You can see the Emotions table of the Daily Mood Log Madeleine during the Magic Dial portion of the session if you As you can see, she wanted to reduce her negative feelings somewhat, but thought she still wanted to keep them fairly elevated, since she still sensed that her daughter might be in real danger, and clearly did not want to abandon her. This is one of the significant refinements in TEAM CBT. First, we want to bring the patient’s resistance to full conscious awareness. Second, we want patients to full grasp that their negative thoughts and feelings do NOT result from some “defect” or “mental disorder,” but rather from what is most beautiful and awesome about them as human beings. After the Magic Button, David and Jill went on to the final, M = Methods portion of the TEAM session, using tools such as Identify and Explain the Distortions, the Double Standard Technique, and the Externalization of Voices, with the Acceptance Paradox, the Self-Defense Paradigm, and the CAT (Counter-Attack Technique). We will, of course, do numerous role reversals to see if we can get Madeleine to a “huge” victory over her many distorted thoughts. You can see the Daily Mood Log Madeleine prepared at the end of the session if you As you can see, the reductions in negative feelings were dramatic, but in several areas (anxiety, inadequacy, frustration and anger), Madeleine’s negative feelings were still minimally elevated. That is one of the reasons we decided to schedule an additional session together several weeks later to see if we could intensify Madeleine’s responses to her negative thoughts, and hopefully due some Cognitive Flooding to complete her “treatment.” At the end of these show notes, you will find an email from Madeleine after the session that includes her end-of-session scores on the BMS and EOTS. You will also see comments submitted by many participants who attended the webinar live. This email below from Madeleine following the session shows her end of session scores on the Brief Mood Survey as well as the Evaluation of Therapy Session at the end of her session with Jill and David. Hi David, Yes, here are my BMS & ETS score totals after the extended session. Please let me know if you have any questions. A relapse prevention session would be nice; however, I hesitate to accept your offer as you all are so busy. Please know that I am practicing the PTs and keeping the NTs in check for now. Thank you again a million times over😊. Yes, Feel free to use the recording however you like. Like I said, it’s the least I can do to contribute to your generous and vitally important work. You are both very inspiring in so many ways. Much gratitude, Madeleine Brief Mood Survey (BMS) Depressed 0 / 20 (complete elimination of depression) Suicidal 0 / 12 Anxious 2 / 20 (near-complete elimination of anxiety) Angry 0 / 20 PF 36 / 40 (dramatic improvement in Positive Feelings) RS 29 / 30 (large improvement in Relationship Satisfaction) Evaluation of Therapy Session (ETS) Empathy 20 / 20 (perfect) Helpfulness 20 / 20 (perfect) Satisfaction 8 / 8 (perfect) Commitment 8 / 8 (perfect) Neg feelings 1 (0 – 4) (uncomfortable at times!) Difficulties w/ answering the questions honestly 0 (0 – 4) (no difficulties) What did you like the least? Crying and blathering in front of all those people. Fortunately, I wasn’t able to see any faces except yours😉 What did you like the most? Jill’s “smooth as silk” empathy skills, David’s laser sharp questions, Jill’s rephrasing & untangling of the PT to “unlikely,” David’s having me write powerful PR stuff down, Jill & David’s EOV - so strong, David counterattacking my neg thoughts with “sociopath,” Jill’s double std delivered in a very gentle way. I never felt rushed! Feedback for Madeleine from the chat during the session Comments for Madeline: Madeline!!! I want you as a therapist. Your ability to show how to feel and describe the feel is courageous and admirable. Thank you. Thank you for sharing Madeline, I can completely relate with you as a mother when we worry and has no control on their actions Definitely relate to Madeleine and appreciate her vulnerability. Thank you for your transparency, Madeleine. We appreciate it and can empathize I totally relate. My children are 30 and 32, I parented in the 90"s; i was trying to break the abuse cycle, so i missed nurturing their emotions and building their self esteem. My children give me so much grace and say how much they love watching me as a grandparent. I am so proud of the grandmother I am!!!! I am so grateful to be a part of their journey and blessed to have a second chance at creating that safe space for all of them. wow. this event really open up the deeper pain in your life. Feel honored that you are opening up to us. I'm so much appreciating Madeleine's being vulnerable and her sweetness and maternal care/nurturance and how David and Jill are working with her. Helpful learning experience. Thank you all. Thank you Madeline! It was brave and kind of you to share your story for today's demo!! Shows she is courageous n strong woman I am in awe over how Madeleine's resistance to looking at inadequacy actually brought out the most amazing positives and core values. Beautiful! I also just got the chills She is great mother She is caring person cares for others Madeleine is so incredibly courageous sharing her story here being so vulnerable too I appreciate how real this is and thank you all for the work you do for helping Madeleine through this and for providing this very inspirational training :) As a mother and also deep empath, much of what she is sharing definitely resonates. I hope she’s able to continue working with her struggles and strengths to heal and feel better sooner than later 💗 Madeleine, it means so much to hear you. I was in trouble with an abusive boyfriend when I was college aged. I would have given anything to have my mother give me support at that time. I felt completely alone navigating the relationship and unable to get out. I needed an “adult in the room”. Just hearing and seeing you right now is huge for me. Your daughters are lucky to have you! It’s clear that you have their back and I’m sure they know it. I feel like you bring your whole heart to being a mother, truly beautiful and awesome! Thank you so much for volunteering today. Hi Madelyn, I’m also a mother like you. I am a sensitive person like you and worry about how evil the world is. I worry for my daughter’s future. My daughter has a beautiful sensitive, innocent soul. The fact that we feel this way shows that we are kind emphatic people. The only way not to suffer about these issues is to be a sociopath, to be part of the satanic community that is responsible for the ugliness in the world. I don’t want to be part of this evil community. It is our political systems responsibility to spread the stoic values that make just, reason/logic driven people, brave, kind and educated driven people. As for myself, I’m proud of who I am and find peace and comfort in studying stoicism. I believe that if we all learned about stoicism our world would be a much better place. And there’s just as many Creeps and Sociopaths in your hometown as abroad. What’s increasing her safety is knowing she has an open line of communication to her mom. That kind of girl is not such a target. Creeps are looking for girls without strong roots, without “backup”. Girls with a a major insecurity to fill. Your type of parenting is exactly what’s made her safer. Just to add to externalization of voices if we’re allowed or supposed to! In case Madeline sees this chat, I feel compelled to share that I studied abroad in the spring semester 1998, in Jerusalem at Hebrew University. I turned 21 that semester (as did my group of new friends). Hands down it was the most formative and important experience of my life to build trust in myself, feeling able to navigate the unexpected, land somewhere totally new and make new friends and figure things out. My worried mother heard all kinds of yucky things in the news that was happening there (things that I never saw). We navigated our safety, traveled on weekends and breaks. And since, I have regularly offered the recommendation, both solicited and unsolicited, about the incredible merits of studying abroad, Of course, our mama-bear hearts will be called to protect our babies. And, sounds like your girl is gritty and brave, open to new experiences, adventurous, and eager to experience life! Madeline’s empathy and compassion and counterattack stating “I taught her to see the Beauty in the world “is profound and amazing and reverberates for coaching and self empathy! Wonderful Madeline, David and Jill! Thank you Madeleine for being so vulnerable, honest, and open to aid our learning. SO touching and relatable. M’s standard for herself and parents is so very high and unattainable! She is doing way more than most by just caring this much. /episode/index/show/feelinggood/id/38992890

482: Live Work with Madeleine, I'm Helpless! Part 1 of 3 12/29/2025

482: Live Work with Madeleine, I'm Helpless! Part 1 of 3 Live Work with Madeleine I'm Helpless! Part 1 of 3 Today, we are pleased to present one of our favorite podcast topics—live work with a real human being who is suffering. We will be working with Madeleine, a woman who read a disturbing article while at the hairdresser and freaked out, sensing that one of her daughters might be in mortal danger. This live and unedited session was first presented as part of a free webinar on September 11, 2025. There was no preparation or role-playing—everything was absolutely real and spontaneous, exactly as it evolved in real time. We present Part 1 as our final Feeling Good Podcast for our 2025 season. This is our most powerful and popular type of podcast, and we hope you enjoy it. We also give a big thanks to our courageous "patient," Madeleine. My co-therapist will be Dr. Jill Levitt, a clinical psychologist and Director of Training at the Feeling Good Institute in Mountain View, California. Jill and I greatly enjoy working together as co-therapists when we teach and we typically see our “patient” for an extended, two-hour session. We find that this is the most effective format for teaching, and that way, we can frequently complete a course of therapy in a single session. However, you do not need more than one therapist to do effective TEAM CBT, and you can do it in conventional 50 minute sessions as well. But often, you can do vastly more in a double session. We will not be engaged in an ongoing therapeutic relationship with Madeleine. When we work with therapists, they are doing personal work as a part of their training. We feel that this experience is vital for every therapist who hopes to do world-class TEAM CBT with their own patients / clients. More than 2,000 individuals registered for this workshop. Although the workshop was open to everyone, only 13% of the participants identified as general public, while 87% identified as mental health professionals. In Part 1, which we present today, we focused on T = Testing and E = Empathy phases of the TEAM session. In Part 2, which you will hear next week, we will focus on A = Paradoxical Agenda Setting and M = Methods. We will also show you the changes in her scores on the Daily Mood Log (DML) and Brief Mood Survey (BMS) from the start to the end of the session, as well as Madeleine’s scores on the Evaluation of Therapy Session (EOTS) at the end, including what she liked the most and least about the session. That way, we can see clearly how much improvement there was (or wasn’t) during the session, and how Jill and I did in terms of empathy, helpfulness, and other scales that evaluate the patient’s view of the session. In Part 3, which you will hear in two weeks, we did more Externalization of Voices along with Cognitive Exposure, since we had some loose ends we wanted to tie up before completing our work with Madeleine. This follow-up session occurred many weeks after the initial session at the workshop, and will also serve as a follow-up to see how Madeleine did in the days following the live work. Part 1 of 3 Our “patient,” Madeleine, is a courageous woman who experienced sheer panic after being triggered at the hair salon while reading an article about a young woman who was abducted. Since Madeleine’s oldest daughter’s is away at college, taking a year abroad, Madeleine realized she could not protect her from predators and freaked out, thinking about all the horrible things that could happen to her. In addition, Madeleine had many self-critical thoughts about ways she thought she had failed her daughter when her daughter was growing up, and worried about her daughter’s judgement: She hasn’t always made the best decisions about guys she’s gone out with, and she’s shared everything with me. She says, ‘Don’t worry mom. I’ve learned from this.’” At the start of the session, we reviewed Madeleine’s scores on the Brief Mood Survey (BMS). This indicated only minimal depression (5/20), with no suicidal urges or anger, but her anxiety was still extremely elevated (18/20). In addition, her Positive Feelings score was only 20 out of 40, with 0 meaning no positive feelings at all, and 40 being the highest possible feelings. However, her Relationship Satisfaction score with her husband was 25 out of 30, which indicates strong satisfaction, with just a little room for improvement. We will ask Madeleine to complete the BMS again, along with the EOTS, so we can see precisely what changed, and by how much, during the session. Our goal, of course, with TEAM CBT, is nearly always to cause a near-complete, or complete, elimination of symptoms during a single, extended therapy session. In addition, we want every patient to have a crystal clear understanding of how and why they got upset, along with how to use the tools that were the most helpful to them in the session. That way, they’ll be armed to deal with future relapses, which are inevitable for all human beings. And here’s the big point. Our goal in sharing this session with you is so you can feel inspired, and see that rapid recovery really IS possible. And if you’re a therapist, we hope that you will feel motivated to learn TEAM CBT so you can significantly improve your outcomes with your own patients. You can see the Daily Mood Log Madeleine prepared just prior to the session if you The upsetting situation was reading the article about the young abducted woman in the hair salon. On the Emotions table she indicated that she was feeling sad, down, and unhappy (85%), anxious, frightened and panicky (100%), inadequate (100%), frustrated (90%), and angry and upset (100%). These extremely high ratings tells us that Madeleine’s negative feelings were about as intense as a human being can experience. Although your life is undoubtedly very different from Madeleine’s, perhaps you, too, have felt panic and helplessness when you thought the life of a loved one might be in danger. Madeleine generated several additional negative Thoughts during the empathy phase of the session, including, I’m totally responsible for how she’s turned out. 95% I was not present enough for her. 95% She may not trust that I’m there for her. 60% She’s anxious and insecure and a people-pleasure, and she’s also perfectionistic, and it’s all my fault. 75% I should have been more sensitive when she was growing up. I expected too much. 100% Again, if you’re a parent, you may have had similar negative thoughts about your own parenting. I know that I have! During the Empathy phase, Madeleine described her horrors when reading the article at the hairdresser’s, with thoughts of Natalie Hollaway’s brutal murder as well as other women who were abducted and murdered. Madeleine explained that she and her husband both married late, and felt somewhat insecure as parents: “It wasn’t easy having children late in life. . . . When our first baby was born, the milk was not coming down. My daughter would look deep into my eyes, and I had the thought, ‘I’m letting my daughter down.’” She said she had a rough time when she was growing up and her parents got divorced: “My heart was broken, and I had to learn to be strong. I had to learn not to let so much emotion through. I had to learn how to keep guys at arm’s length. I had to protect myself from getting hurt.” She said that wanted her daughters to grow up being strong and independent, but as she reflects back, she thinks she may have failed them and not provided enough warmth and support. Our goal during E = Empathy is not to help or even try change anything, but simply to go with our patients to the gates of hell, so they can vent, cry, and express their deepest and most private feelings. At the end of the Empathy portion of the session, we asked Madeleine to grade us on the three key elements of empathy, using letter grades: How accurately did we understand how you were thinking? How accurately did we understand how you were feeling inside? To what extent did we convey the spirit of trust, warmth, and acceptance? She gave us 3 A’s, indicating it was time to move on to A = Paradoxical Agenda Setting, which you will hear next week. We will want to find out what Madeleine might want help with. We will also try to melt away her resistance to change using the Miracle Cure Question, the Magic Button, Positive Reframing, and the Magic Dial. Why would we anticipate resistance? After all, Madeleine is asking for help. But remember, the desire for change cannot always be take for granted in anyone. Nearly all of us have mixed feelings about change. After all, a loving and concerned mother might NOT want to stop worrying about a beloved daughter who seems to be in grave danger! But if you deal with this resistance in a compassionate way, you may open the door to the possibility of rapid healing when you come to the M = Methods portion of the session. We can check it out at the exciting conclusion of the work with Madeleine next week! /episode/index/show/feelinggood/id/38992735

481: Ask David: Memory Rescripting; Why Can't I Lose Weight? Demons! 12/22/2025

481: Ask David: Memory Rescripting; Why Can't I Lose Weight? Demons! Past Projection vs. Memory Rescripting Why Can't I Lose Weight? Do Demons Cause Negative Thoughts! Featuring Our Beloved Dr. Matthew May The answers to today’s questions are brief and were written prior to the show. Listen to the podcast for a more in-depth discussion of each question. Here are the questions for today’s podcast. Rhonda asks: What’s the difference between Past Projection and Memory Rescripting? Slash asks: How do I overcome my resistance to losing weight? Constantina asks: Do negative thoughts come from demons? And here are the answers! Rhonda asks: What’s the difference between Past Projection and Memory Rescripting? I would love to learn more about Memory Rescripting, since I really don't see much difference between that and Past Projection, but maybe I am just dense. So if we could talk about that on the next Ask David, that would be great. Thanks, Rhonda David’s reply I use the term, Time Travel, and you can project yourself into the future or the past, hence Future or Past Projection. If you want a patient to travel into the past, there are a great many things you can do that might be helpful. You can do “Forgiveness Training,” developed by Jaimie Galindo. Essentially, the patient talks to someone, like a parent, who abused them in some way, telling the parent how hurt they felt, and how they needed the parent’s love. Or you can do Cognitive Flooding, simply “watching” some traumatic event to experience the anxiety until it wears out and loses its power to upset you. And there are many more techniques you can use to explore past experiences with a patient. Memory Rescripting is like Cognitive Flooding—you have the patient close their eyes and vividly re-experience something traumatic, like the babysitter abusing them. Then, at the height of the feelings of anxiety, anger, and helplessness, you can tell the patient that they can be like a movie director, and change the scene so there is a different outcome. For example, the patient may want to enter the scene as a powerful adult and punish the perpetrator. This is not some standard procedure, as every patient will be completely different. Often, they will want to do something violent to the perpetrator, so this procedure can be anxiety provoking for the therapist! I have only used it on a couple occasions, but had good results with it both times. I am not a strong believer that patients “must” go into the past to “work through” a prior traumatic experience, so I don’t have that much need for it. But it is a good technique to have in your toolbox. Slash asks: How do I overcome my resistance to losing weight? Dear Dr. Burns, I recently listened to your podcast episode on Habits and Addictions, and it really resonated with me. I’ve been going to the gym regularly, but I’m struggling with my eating habits — I tend to eat too much, and my weight hasn’t been decreasing. What I’ve realized is that I may be experiencing what you describe as outcome resistance. A part of me feels that if I lose weight and become thin and attractive, I might still not take action in areas like dating — so then I ask myself, “Why should I even bother with weight reduction?” I’m finding it difficult to overcome this resistance, even though I want to be healthier. Could you please share some guidance or strategies to work through this kind of resistance? Thank you for all the wonderful work you do. Your podcasts have been truly insightful and helpful. Warm regards, Slash David’s reply Thanks, and we will discuss this important question on the podcast. However, in the meantime, if you can search for Triple Paradox you may find your answer. Also, you can download two free unpublished changers on habits and addictions from any page on feeling good.com, and use the Decision -Making, Tool. That, too, will give you the answer! Warmly, david Constantina asks: Do negative thoughts come from demons? David and Rhonda, Hello. I am doing some research into "spiritual" causes of depression. I realize that you are both scientists (and BRILLIANT ones), but if you have any sources I could review, I would appreciate suggestions. It might also make for an interesting Halloween season podcast. Do "demons" cause automatic negative thoughts. And if not demons, what actually causes them? Please don't dismiss this as "crazy". I am a very religious person and at times I have sincerely asked the question...are depression and anxiety ...at least in part, spiritual maladies. I have found tremendous help in Feeling Good, but also in prayer and religious practices. I want to research what has been done in terms of crossover studies/experiments (if any). Marianne David’s reply Thank you. The spiritual underpinnings are not so much something to be researched, but can add a deeper dimension of meaning and understanding to the healing. Current thinking is that Self-Defeating Beliefs, not demons, trigger the negative thoughts. I have written about all of this extensively, so I won’t try to say it all again here. But we can exchange some ideas on the podcast. Thanks! d Thanks for listening today! Matt, Rhonda, and David /episode/index/show/feelinggood/id/38976540

480: Ask David: Helping Someone Who's Suicidal; Worrying about My Daughter's Anxiety; Disarming Yourself 12/15/2025

480: Ask David: Helping Someone Who's Suicidal; Worrying about My Daughter's Anxiety; Disarming Yourself Am I Helping People Who Are Suicidal? Should I Worry about My Daughter's Anxiety? Disarming Yourself The answers to today’s questions are brief and were written prior to the show. Listen to the podcast for a more in-depth discussion of each question. Here are the questions for today’s podcast. George asks: Would my approach help someone who is suicidal? No Name asks: Do I need to worry about my daughter’s anxiety? Jeffrey asks: Can you disarm yourself? George asks: Would my approach help someone who is suicidal? Dear David, Please tell me if this is too close to medical or other protected advice, but I had a question about something I tell people who are sometimes struggling with suicidal ideation. Throughout my life, I have had the thought "I don't want to be alive anymore" more times than I can count. But what I have come to realize over time is that this is just something my brain says when I'm upset; it doesn't really mean anything other than that. It's just a reaction to being very upset and that reframing helps me feel better about it, knowing that it's not a conviction but rather just how my brain expresses negative distress. Multiple people have found this helpful, but I wonder if telling certain people this would be dismissive/triggering/etc. In a dangerous way? Do you think I should stop sharing this experience? George David’s reply: Hi George, Thanks for asking. I will make this an Ask David question, if okay with you, using your first name or some other name if you prefer. Short answer: to me, this is like giving advice, to my way of thinking, and I have spent the last 40 – 50 years indicating that this is NOT an approach that’s ever worked for me. Can say more on the podcast. Thanks! Warmly, david No Name asks: Do I need to worry about my daughter’s anxiety? Dear Dr. Burns, I am not very skilled at expressing how much you, Rhonda, the others and your work mean to me. So, I will just ask a question. My daughter, who has a lot of anxiety issues told me that when she has a problem, she will purposely stew over it when trying to fall asleep so that she will wake up with an answer to the problem the next morning. I cringed. Is there any way that this is a safe or helpful paradoxical technique? No name David’s reply Thanks, I’ll copy Rhonda. We are both grateful for your loving comments! Rhonda, we can make this an ask David if you like for a podcast. But short answer, at least, in my opinion, is that this is a cool way to use your brain. It is a skill. For example, I often get confused by a difficult statistics problem when analyzing data, and go to sleep confused. Nearly all the time, my brain wakes me up in the middle of the night with a brilliant answer. So, if she perceived is in a positive way, and isn’t disturbed, you could try nourishing it, as opposed to worrying about it! We’ll see what Rhonda thinks. Rhonda, I’ll add this great brief question to our list for Tuesday. I am reluctant to postpone the Ask David as when we’ve done this in the past, we’ve ended up never answer at least 20 to 30 questions which are now too old to put on a podcast. Those who asked may no longer even be alive it’s been so long! Warmly, david Rhonda’s reply Thank you for this lovely feedback. It really means a lot to us. Your daughter is going through something so many of us experience. I am excited we can respond to your question on an Ask David podcast. Warmly, Rhonda Jeffrey asks: Can you disarm yourself? Subject: Question about using disarming technique on oneself, and also it being used against you. Endless gratitude to all of you for the pipeline of clarity and hope. I was wondering if one can use disarming on oneself. Much of the focus in feeling good seems focused on looking for and challenging our distortions, which seems the opposite of disarming. Maybe the reversal of agendas emphasized in feeling great is essentially putting the disarming back into the process in regards to ourselves. I would like to hear your thoughts on this. On a side note, if one is in a legal contention or divorce, I could see how disarming could be effective and pacifying, yet what if those admissions could be used against you. David’s reply I would like to include this in an Ask David podcast, with our first name or a fake name. Please advise if okay. Short answer: the ideas and tools to treat individual mood problems, like depression, are the complete opposite of the ideas and tools to treat relationship problems. This is like matter and anti-matter. However, the Disarming Technique and the Acceptance Paradox connect these two opposed and radically different worlds. So, in a sense, you are right. The Acceptance Paradox is a lot like disarming yourself! Best, david Jeffry's reply to david Thank you for the succinct response, and I look forward to hearing it fleshed out in the podcast. I would be honored for you to mention my name: Jeffrey - from the outskirts of Jerusalem in Israel And thank you to the whole team for keeping the best things in life for free (although I do hope everyone receives the funds they need). Yet I feel converse maxim - "there's no free lunch" remains standing, And that is, because, as you state over and over - anybody serious in improvement must pay the price; whether in completing the daily logs, or Burns assessment quizzes, or facing your fears, challenging your assumptions or fine-tuning one's communication skills, one interaction at a time. The danger of apps, and screens in general, are the inherent passivity and superficiality they engender, so I am looking forward to seeing how this app overcomes that. Lastly, you had sought feedback as to audience preferences for podcasts: I think by now I and most regular listeners are clear in the general approaches of Team CBT, and how it differs from other schools and their adherents, so now I benefit most from the role playing to crystallize and internalize its application. I would also be willing to forego multiple scenarios in each session in order to spend more time reiterating and clarifying individual scenarios - assuming that David, Rhonda, Matt, etc, have the willingness to keep going. Keep on keeping us learning and laughing. Jeffrey David’s reply Thanks for the kindly and thoughtful note. We’ll certainly try, but as you say, there’s no free lunch and no guarantees! We are sometimes just hanging on! I like your recommendation for podcasts: more role playing I think to bring techniques and ideas to life. Warmly, david Thanks, for listening! David and Rhonda /episode/index/show/feelinggood/id/38976415

479: Ask David: Why do I obsess? Why do I have to be perfect? How can I share my feelings effectively? 12/08/2025

479: Ask David: Why do I obsess? Why do I have to be perfect? How can I share my feelings effectively? Ask David Why do I obsess? Why do I have to be perfect? How can I share my feelings without oversharing? The answers to today’s questions are brief and were written prior to the show. Listen to the podcast for a more in-depth discussion of each question. Here are the questions for today’s podcast. Zhang asks: I have intrusive daydreams and obsess about getting things perfect? What’s causing this? And what can I do? Yevhen asks: How can I use “I Feel” Statements without oversharing? But first, we start today’s podcast with a comment from Susan, one of our podcast fans. She extends our discussion of whether friendship is more of a human “need” or a human “want.” She describes her work with Dr. Daniel Herman, a Level 4 certified TEAM CBT therapist. Hi Rhonda, Matt, and David, First, I wanted to say I am so glad sweet Rhonda is feeling better. This is wonderful news! I have been a fan of Dr. Burns books for 10+ years and of the podcast for 3 years. I just finished listening to podcast #469 on friendship and felt compelled to share my story as it relates to Team CBT. Three years ago, my 23 year-old son entered a 90 day inpatient rehabilitation center for a marijuana addiction followed by 1 1/2 years in a sober living facility. Six months into his recovery, I reached out to Dr. Daniel Hermann, a Team CBT level 4 therapist. At that time, my son’s progress had been steady yet I was still suffering greatly. One of many thoughts that contributed to my suffering was that my friends couldn’t understand what I was going through. Although I have been fortunate to have had many wonderful friendships for 30+ years, Although I was open with my friends about my struggles, I generally didn’t feel they understood what I was going through and I felt isolated. Fortunately, Dr. Herman did not try to convince me that I “needed” these friendships or to be understood to “get through” this difficult time. Instead, he helped me to look at the situation realistically, without distortions. My positive reframe regarding my friends was “I wish I could have felt closer to my friends during this difficult time. However, there are many ways in which I have supported myself and I have found other outside sources of comfort also.” I made a very detailed list of the myriad of ways I had supported myself which brought me great comfort and empowerment. I was able to accept that I wasn’t feeling as close to my friends as I would have liked, without blaming them or myself. I also let go of my belief that my friends “should” have been able to empathize better with what I was going through. I learned that although I truly value these friendships, if I expect them to mean everything to me in every situation, I will be setting myself up for a lot of suffering. I am so happy that sweet Rhonda had those strong friendships to help her during such a dark time. She is very fortunate! Since Rhonda had a change of heart during the podcast, the following comments are based on her beliefs at the beginning of the podcast: that the support of her friends is a need and that she could not have “gotten through” her treatments without it. Did Rhonda mean that she would have not sought cancer treatment, the treatments would have been ineffective, or that she would have ended her life without the support of her friends? Would she have told a client of hers in a similar situation that she needed to focus all her time and effort on developing meaningful friendships rather than treating her cancer because friendship was the true need? Obviously, I don’t believe she would have and am glad that she had a change of heart regarding this belief. Thank you all for your wonderful podcasts! Susan The point I was trying to make is that Dr. Hermann himself did not appear to believe in these self-defeating beliefs, contrary to public opinion. This was essential to me coming to the same conclusions. (To be clear, he NEVER told me what to believe lol. I was paying him but I did all the work! Frustrating at times but coming to my own conclusions was the only way to internalize these messages.) Zhang asks: I have intrusive daydreams and obsess about getting things perfect? What’s causing this? And what can I do? Dear Dr. Burns, Thank you so much for your kind and prompt reply. I truly appreciate you taking the time to direct me to the additional resources on your website—I have found them and am already finding them very helpful. Please accept my sincere apologies for the delay in responding. The beginning of the new semester has kept me quite occupied, and I have only now found a moment to write to you properly. I am writing to you again because I have been struggling with some persistent challenges and was hoping I might ask for your guidance. Lately, I often find myself distracted by vivid, intrusive daydreams—I create elaborate imaginary stories or visualize worst-case scenarios, such as natural disasters. In addition, I have developed what feels like an obsessive need to keep my books in perfect condition. Even minor wear causes me significant anxiety, and I find it difficult to stop thinking about it if I cannot repair the damage. These thoughts and behaviors are beginning to affect my daily life, and I was wondering if you might have any advice or suggested resources that could help me better understand and manage them. Thank you once again for your generosity and support. Your work has already made a profound difference in my life. Warm regards, Zhang David’s response Thanks, Zhang. There are many methods and ideas in When Panic Attacks, my book on anxiety. In particular, the Hidden Emotion Technique might interest you. If you are in the US, there is a class on it in the Feeling Great app, which is free until the end of September, so move fast. Also, I would like to include this as an Ask David, if that’s okay. Can use your first name, or a fake name. Best, david Yevhen asks: How can I use “I Feel” Statements without oversharing? Hello Dr. Burns, Rhonda, and Matt, I would like to express my heartfelt gratitude for the remarkable work you’re doing in the field of TEAM-CBT. Your books and your voice of reason have been an immense help to me in some of the most difficult times. Dr Burns, I always feel amazed hearing your wisdom and patience each time you explain the concepts. Even those concepts that were explained before. Additionally, thank you Dr Burns, Rhonda and Matt, for the exceptional Feeling Good podcast you host. Each new episode is a highlight of my week and nearly always offers profound insight and encouragement. On a lighter note, I sometimes play your podcast at night when I have trouble sleeping. It really helps me drift off within 20-30 minutes 😀 Rhonda, I admire your perseverance in the face of your illness. I wish you a smooth and speedy recovery. Matt, I really appreciate all the cool insights you’re sharing and contributing to this podcast. I’d love to ask you a couple of questions: 1) When I meet new people, I tend to guide the conversation by asking relevant, open-ended questions. Something similar to the “TV host persona” you described in Feeling Great. The challenge is that I rarely share much about myself. This often leads my friends or partners to say that they hardly know me or that I keep personal matters private/do not share anything with them. How can I work on sharing more about myself without oversharing? 2) I usually appear calm and some people even describe me as having a “poker face.” This sometimes leaves my partner/friends unsure how to read my reactions or feelings. Is there a way to become more comfortable showing emotions without forcing it? 3) I’m not naturally confrontational, so in difficult situations or disagreements I usually choose flight over fight. This sometimes leaves me feeling like I missed something or haven’t explained my position/point of view. Is there anything I can do to develop a healthier balance in these moments? I would be really grateful if you could answer any of these questions. Thank you again for your inspiring work! Best regards Yevhen M. David’s reply Thanks, will add this to the next Ask David list. In the meantime, we did a podcast on “I Feel” statements that you could find on my website, with many practical ideas. You said you want to practice something new and asked: :”How can I work on sharing more about myself without oversharing?” That sounds like you want to practice pitching, in baseball, and want to make sure you throw all perfect pitches. This is not possible! You WILL over or under share at times, it’s a rule of the universe. Are you willing to learn by trial and error? And what are you the most afraid of? On question #3, I never answer abstract, hypothetical questions, as you will know if you have followed my work. If you want help with this, write down one thing the other person said, (or might say), and what, exactly, you said next (or might say next.) This will provide a world of specific information that will contain the answer you’re looking for. But on a general level, as the Buddha said so many years ago, “don’t waste your time in worthless generalizations. Give me something specific and real, please!” Best, david Thanks for listening today! Rhonda, Matt, and David /episode/index/show/feelinggood/id/38922445

478: Yikes! I've Relapsed! 12/01/2025

478: Yikes! I've Relapsed! Relapse and Relapse Prevention for Overeating Featuring Dr. Angela Krumm On today’s podcast, we proudly feature an old friend, Dr. Angela Krumm, on the topic of relapse prevention for habits and addictions. This is certainly a top of incredible importance, since all treatments for all habits and addictions seem to have extremely high relapse rates. Anything we could do to reduce that would be a major contribution. Angela was on our Feeling Good Podcast #270 on Nov 29, 2021 describing some TEAM CBT methods she’d developed to deal with her own weight gain. In podcast #270 she taught listeners how to set process goals, instead of outcome focused goals. She then taught about the Triple Paradox, Habit Addiction Log, Devil’s Advocate technique, and the Problem-Solution log. In that first episode she explained that this was a difficult time in her life: her father had died, and she’d also experienced a traumatic fall which caused a concussion. So she fell off being careful about her diet, and one day was shocked that she could not recognize herself—due to weight gain--in a photo, and was on the fast track to Type II Diabetes. As a result, she utilized many of the TEAM CBT techniques and slowly, but surely, lost weight and kept it off for multiple years. She explains that she was “solid for a long time, but have to confess, with shame, that I eventually relapsed because I got over-confident. I’d been tracking what I ate, which was an important key for me, and stopped keeping up with it consistently, thinking I didn’t really need to anymore.” We reviewed the kinds of tempting thoughts she’d had (and still has, of course, at times), when she feels tempted by her favorites: things like delicious brownies, red wine, and other sweet treats. She has tempting thoughts such as: I deserve to take a break from tracking what I eat. I deserve a treat—I’ve had a hard day. It’s silly to be so rigid. I deserve to eat whatever I want. Spontaneity is one of my core values! During the podcast, we illustrated the Devil’s Advocate Technique (DAT), which is powerful and a lot of fun, but sometimes trickier than it looks. When Angela gave a “good” but not “huge” response to one of these tempting thoughts, I automatically suggested a role-reversal. Rhonda immediately and rightly reminded us that we never do role-reversals when people are stuck during the Devil’s Advocate. Instead, we paradox the person and sit with open hands. Rhonda modeled this beautifully and it worked like a charm. Angela had a sudden about face and blew the tempting thought out of the water immediately. We made three teaching points on DAT. Don’t give in to the urge to “help.” This will have the opposite effect of keeping the patient stuck. Realize that if you’re a therapist, and your patient cannot convincingly defeat all the temping thoughts in the office, the likelihood that they can defeat them when they’re at home is 0%. So, the DAT is both a powerful technique to boost motivation with tools you can use when tempted, but it is also a powerful test of motivation. Remember to Sit with Open Hands if your patients cannot convincingly defeat their tempting thoughts. Angela shared that she now realizes that the main reason for her relapse was that she had skipped relapse prevention. This is the danger of being your own therapist, sometimes you make the mistake of cutting corners or getting overly confident. She asked to return to the podcast today to talk about that important mistake and help others prevent that mistake in the future. She wants us to emphasize the important of Relapse Prevention for all habits and addictions. When Angela mentioned that she’d relapsed in her eating to a therapist who was just learning TEAM-CBT, the therapist seemed shocked and asked, “Oh, does this mean that the techniques we’re learning don’t actually work?” This is such a great (but naïve and common) question, because we always emphasize that all patients—in fact all human beings—will relapse after recovery from depression, anxiety, a relationship conflict, or a habit / addiction. That’s why it’s so important to tell patients about relapse before discharge from therapy, and do a brief but intensive relapse prevention intervention. We reviewed several of the Relapse Prevention techniques, including the Problem Solution List and the Relapse Prevention Daily Mood Log, using and recording the Externalization of Voices. When you do this step with a patient, ask them to imagine the future moment in time when they have relapsed. It’s important to capture the thoughts that will lead them to give up and quit using the techniques. Often, these are hopeless thoughts about the usefulness of the techniques or their ability to remain in recovery. If these thoughts are left unchecked, they will spiral the person into a deeper and more lengthy relapse. If they can predict the thoughts ahead of time and generate powerful rebuttals to use in that moment, then their first moment of relapse can be turned around quickly! We listed several of Angela’s predicted negative thoughts during her relapse: I should not have let this happen. 100% I’m not strong enough. 60% It’s just too hard to start tracking and logging what I eat again. 65% It will be too painful to have to track and see what I’ve eaten. 60% This isn’t fair. It should be so hard to be healthy! 70% Screw it. I should just accept this and give up! 40% Podcast listeners will judge me because I have gained weight again. 10% We practiced challenging those thoughts with the Externalization of Voices, and Rhonda summarize several of the strategies that can be the most helpful: Self-Defense The Acceptance Paradox. The Counter-Attack Technique A combination of two or three Angela summarized three important take home messages from today’s podcast. Always prepare a Relapse Daily Mood Log ahead of time, anticipating what you will be telling yourself when you relapse Challenge those thoughts with EOV and record that role-play so you can listen to it in the future when tempted. After you have lost sufficient weight, make a plan to continue your healthier eating after the acute phase. Do NOT make the common mistake of thinking, “Oh, I’ve achieved my goal of losing 30 pounds (or whatever), so now I’m done, and can go back to my normal eating habits and patterns again.” Thank you for listening today! Angela, Rhonda, and David /episode/index/show/feelinggood/id/38908905

Awesome Free Webinar: Five Secrets That Can Change Your Life! 11/26/2025

Coming Up in January: Fast Track to Level 3 TEAM CBT Certification (46 CEs!) 11/25/2025

477: David and Jill's Amazing Exposure Webinar Part 2 of 2 11/24/2025

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