The Her.CEO Entrepreneur Podcast: Learn to Grow Your Business & Make Money

The entrepreneur podcast that teaches you how to make money, start a new side hustle or business venture, as well as how to better position your business, and take your marketing, growth and mindset to the next level.

Flippa: Blake Hutchison, CEO - Realize The Cash Value of Your Business - Equalizing the Exit 09/23/2022

5. Banish Skincare Founder Daisy Jing: From YouTube to Successful Female Entrepreneur 10/18/2020

5. Banish Skincare Founder Daisy Jing: From YouTube to Successful Female Entrepreneur Daisy Jing, Founder Banish Skincare Daisy Jing is the Founder of . She launched her skincare company from her own kitchen and used her platform as an influencer to start making sales, which was not even her goal at first. Once she realized how interested her were in her new products and skincare routine, she got more serious about manufacturing and selling, and created her company Banish. Her YouTube channel now has over 70 million views, and she has a thriving company Banish that has been around for over 6 years. Daisy Jing founded Banish to solve her own skin problems, and ended up sharing her solution with many others in the company she created. In this episode Daisy shares valuable business and manufacturing tips, as well as her own business, marketing and life mindset tips that can inspire you to take action on your own ideas. Watch Daisy and Stacy talk about Daisy's business story and tips: (this is a full video episode, intro video, Zoom conversation video, so let me know in the comments or via email if I should keep doing full video formats or if audio-only is OK as well) [embed] https://youtu.be/TtHSAD8c_hA [/embed] Daisy Jing 0:00 I think the reason why actually most businesses don't remain in business is because they solve something that nobody needs solving. Stacy Caprio 0:08 Hi, and welcome to the Hurst SEO podcast with Stacy Caprio. The best advice comes not from your critics, but from those who are already where you want to be. Daisy Jing Stacy Caprio 0:21 Listen along with Stacy each week to learn from those who have already built their dreams so you can learn how to build your own. In this episode, we talk to Daisy founder of banish. Daisy was actually the number one person I wanted to have on my podcast when I was conceptualizing starting it. So I was so happy when she jumped at the chance to come on. I had seen her products online and heard her on several business podcasts. And her story is so inspiring to me. Daisy is one of those people who just gets how to start and run a business, she's able to break down complex steps into simple ones. And listening to her talk about her own business is so inspiring. Because it makes you feel like you could also easily break down the steps and start your own. She's also one of the nicest people I've ever met. So I wasn't surprised to learn that she's also from Minnesota, which is where I grew up, and where the nicest people I've ever met live. like to hand in the previous episode, Daisy started her multimillion dollar company to solve her own problem. And then once realizing how her solution could help others, she turned it into an incredibly successful business that has been thriving in its own unique niche for years. If you're looking to start or grow any type of business, you'll love this episode. Daisy has also developed her own products in house and has gone through many testing iteration. And she talks about that, including her product development tips, her sales tips, and how she views business and life and mindset in general. So it's a great episode for anyone interested in starting a business or improving their life mindset. So let's dive right in and hear what Daisy has to say. Hi, Daisy, thank you so much for coming on. I'm so excited to talk to you. And I was hoping we could start with you just going kind of through your background and why you started banished in the first place. Daisy Jing 2:27 Yeah, thank you so much, Stacy for having me on. So my background, I have had acne for forever started at a really young age when I was nine years old. And it just got progressively worse. And it got so bad that, you know, my skin would just start to bleed because the pimples would pop everywhere. And I just go to school and my face was all bloody. And it really affected my self esteem, self confidence, I joke that like people knew me more by the name, pizza face. And by my actual name being the determined person I've always been I wanted to find a solution for my skin. And I tried everything out there, a lot of acne sufferers did and nothing would seem to work in fact, it would actually dry out my skin and make it even worse. And then there was always the promise that it would get better but it just never got better. And I was just trying so many different things. And we went to so many different doctors and everything. And yeah, I just fell in this despair because i've you know had acne for 10 plus years and nothing seemed to work and I kept spending money and I kept like bleaching my skin I kept doing everything to get rid of it. So I documented my struggle on my YouTube channel, which is still there today. It's tasers 89 if you look at some of the older videos, so you can see they asked me through my YouTube channel, I was able to kind of get out of my depression because it gave me a safe space to talk about my journey of hacking and I developed a small but loyal following of people who like to see you know, the real story of someone with acne, I review products etc etc. And then started using more natural ingredients and I became a very, very big stickler for research on different ingredients. So I would go through the skincare labels and just you know pour over medical journals and just like ingredients and stuff like that and really do a lot of research in skincare products and I realized that I was allergic and I would break out towards many of the most popular skincare ingredients. So I eliminated that for my skin I would you know use my own skincare or you know, go to Whole Foods or an herbal food store and just make my own skincare. My skin actually for the first time started to get better, not worse. I was like huh, I'm onto something here. And then I did micro needling which back in 2011 2012 like nobody knew what it was it was super not popular. I was recommended it by a dermatologist, plastic surgeon friend who told me about it. And then I applied vitamin C on top of it and then people need to change I started noticing my skin and they actually asked for my acne scars, like, they're like what happened to your acne scars will happen to her acne like it's all gone. And I didn't really realize it was that like canoodling with the vitamin C. But it actually worked really well for my skin. And then people wanted to try whatever it is I was using. And so that's how banished started. So it was basically me trying to solve my own problem. And other people noticed and they wanted to buy whatever it is I was using. And that's how it started back in 2013. Stacy Caprio 5:35 I love that how organic it was and how you are literally trying to solve your own issue. I think one of the things that drew me to you and your company was actually how vulnerable you were, I'm thinking starting that company, and even in something I think most people are scared to even just talk about. But so many people need your product and have really benefited from it. I was just wondering if you think there's a difference between trying to help people and then selling your product and how you go about both of those things. Daisy Jing 6:10 I don't think they're mutually exclusive. I think for any business to be successful, you have to solve a problem that people have. I think the reason why actually most businesses don't remain in business is because they solve something that nobody needs solving, right? So your focus should always be to help people to solve your customers pain point. And then the money will flow after. So I think it's really important that you're always focusing on helping people first and foremost. Because if you're not helping people, then no one's gonna buy what it is you're offering. Idea to Product Stacy Caprio 6:44 Yeah, I agree. And you had just talked about how you had pored over medical journals, and we're looking for all the ingredients. So I was wondering, how did you start formulating the products and kind of move from just finding the best ingredients to combine them to getting them professionally made and how that progressed, Daisy Jing 7:07 I would buy actually the raw component of the ingredient, you can buy them from different manufacturers of skincare labs and stuff like that, then you can also go to specialty health food stores and get just the ingredient yourself. I did that and I would put it you know, just it was by myself like I was just putting it in glycerin or water bass and then putting it on my skin but I actually saw really great results. And then the next step is to find a, you know, chemist or a formulator or contract manufacturer, and you can tell them like what you want in your products. And then they can make it for you. But because I kind of did that trial and error thing myself without you know, even thinking it was going to be a business. I think that was really important because I didn't let my perfectionism get the worst to me. It was just like, Oh, I want to solve something for myself. And then just taking it a step further and scaling that. How to Manufacture Your Own Product Stacy Caprio 7:58 Awesome. Yeah, I love that products you sent I have them kind of on display here. Oh, great. Actually, yeah, they look I love like your packaging, and they're so easy to hold the the way that the consistency and everything. It just seems like you did really put a lot of thought and effort into that thinking kind of top. has it taken a lot of iterations to get to where they are today or was it pretty quick to get to the Oh, Daisy Jing 8:24 yeah, so I think you know the answer to that it took a long time. I can't even tell you stories. We were dropping the jars for outside on the sidewalk to see like which jars which shatter because there are certain like jar manufacturers they they don't use virgin glass, they use recycled glass and that is more prone to shattering or like why no wire jar shattering you know, like when they're when they're being filled and stuff. I mean, there's all these tiny little details you have to think of right? Even like the font and making sure that the the screen printing on the jar, like doesn't smear or fade or whatnot. You know what machines to fill the products with? Yeah, there was just a lot of different iterations. So it's definitely not an overnight success took I would say, you know, a few years to get to where we are now. Stacy Caprio 9:19 Wow. I love that. And your website is so focused on junkie and full of products, which I think is really great. So it doesn't give people who are searching parallel paralysis. Yeah. When they're trying to purchase something. I was wondering, have you ever tried offering bigger product sizes? Have people ever been interested in that? Or is there a reason you just have smaller sizes across the board? Daisy Jing 9:47 The first part, we don't offer too many products because for me personally, the 10 step you know skincare routine doesn't work for me makes me break out because my skin super sensitive. I just go for the basics. What works What doesn't nothing extra? So we have very limited selection, because we've done a lot of research and testing of, you know, the best products. And then the second part to your question. I'm sorry, what was the second part? Stacy Caprio 10:15 Oh, I think I was just curious if there's tested reason why you offer the smaller sizes, smaller sizes, about doing like a bulk, or like a larger size of someone is on like a long term plan or so yeah. Daisy Jing 10:27 So the reason why we have smaller sizes is that our products are freshly made in small batches. So they actually would, it lasts longer than maybe six months, depending how you store them. So even if we gave you a bigger size, it probably wouldn't be possible to use it up in that time period over six months. And personally, for me, per banish just a little product goes a long way, you'll read our new ingredient list, we don't use too many fillers or extra ingredients, we just have kind of the pure ingredients in there. So you don't need too much product. You know, a lot of skincare companies and brands, they'll add a lot of filler like just things I take up the volume of the product, but doesn't really do much. And I just felt like it was unnecessary. I mean, why pay more for postage? And, you know, for the jar sizes and all that? A little goes a long way? Perfectionism & Business Mindset Stacy Caprio 11:16 Yeah, yeah, with but because you use the fresh ingredients. So the expiration dates and everything. So something I thought was really interesting in your story is how you balance the need for perfectionism versus accepting yourself as it in both skin and business. And I was wondering if you could go into more detail there. Daisy Jing 11:36 Yeah, that's a really great question, Stacy. Yeah, that's a really deep question. But I feel like I could go for a while on that one. Yeah, no, that's really like I actually was like, Huh, that's a really great question. So perfectionism is, it gets you to a certain point, but it won't get you out of that box. I think. When you're younger, you're getting A's in school, and you have that 4.0 and you have those great test scores. And, you know, you have all those boxes checked, like that works really well for you in school, and maybe for college. But in the real world, especially when you're starting a business, you can't be a perfectionist, you're gonna go out of business, because business is so messy, chaotic, and it's every day is like this hustle, right? for survival and for growing. And so you have to learn to let things go and not be a perfectionist, and really kind of focus on what matters. Especially when you're starting out from a young, especially when you're just starting out your business. Since we've been around for over seven years, we can be a perfectionist, right? And like really focus in and really hone down but in the beginning, you just have to like do it and realize that Yeah, you might fail. Yeah, this might not work out. Yeah, you might lose like $50,000, or, you know, $100,000 on something, but you just have to go for it and take that risk. perfectionism has helped me so much, but it also has hindered me, the reason why I was so obsessed with my skin was because I was a perfectionist. And I think that if I wasn't a perfectionist, I wouldn't have spent so many years trying to fix my skin. So many products and so much money spent on my skin, but there is a silver lining because that perfectionism in me, got me to find a better solution, the best solution which is banish. But you cannot be a perfectionist if you want to succeed in life and be happy because there's always more more more that you can do. And I think now having the business for seven years and now having my skin clear up, I have noticed that if you're always trying trying to aim for that picture where the life or that perfect life or you know, checking all the boxes and whatever it is that you're doing. It's it's not a very fulfilling life. So I always lean into authenticity, rather than perfectionism. If you're always trying to think of Am I checking all these boxes? And by being perfect all the time? That is not the way to live your life or you know, run your business. Stacy Caprio 14:08 I agree so much. Thank you. Yeah, that's it's such a hard line. I think so many business owners are perfectionist and it's helped us start businesses and everything, but at some point, it's actually better to let go of all the details and just iterate more quickly and everything but I think there is a fine line. I was wondering, do you think as social media has grown in popularity, have you found customers been more obsessed with perfection? And filters on Instagram? And do you think that has affected your business at all? Perfectionism and Influencer Marketing Daisy Jing 14:44 So I think what's really cool is banish we've taken the opposite approach. In social media, we actually showcase all of our warriors and customers with their acne. We never Photoshop any of the pictures or blur the skin out. We really showcase The acne, acne scars pours on people's skin. And I think that has actually helped us because people relate to us. And they appreciate that, hey, we're not promoting the standard of perfection. And we're not saying that banish is going to obliterate you know your scars and give you flawless perfect skin because no one skincare product or line can do that. But what's most important is to accept all that part of you accept and accept yourself the way you are. And then let's use good skincare products and good skincare ingredients. remind myself, okay, Daisy, are you trying to do this so that we can post it? Or are you doing this because you genuinely love this, and this is who you are. So please try to not get into that rabbit hole of portraying this perfect image on social media because none of us, none of us have that perfect image, Stacy Caprio 15:52 No matter what it seems like on the feed. Yeah, I think that's so true. None of us are perfect. And when you show that in your marketing, I think people are able to kind of see themselves in it and see that maybe it could actually help them too. So your company is really based on you kind of started from your own youtube viral video. And then you've really used a lot of micro influencers and influencers in your marketing. And I was wondering if you have any fun stories about any influencer campaigns, and any tips for people looking to start an influencer campaign? YouTube Influencer Marketing Daisy Jing 16:30 Any fun stories? Well, I feel like the influencers we've worked with, we've always had a long term relationship with them, which has helped, for example, Kelly Kushner, my face, sorry, we worked with her since 2016. And she was a college student, her account was pretty small. But now she's blown into this huge skin positivity influencer. And it's been so great to see the growth of our ambassadors and to keep that long term relationship with them. And we're all about authenticity and working with people on a long term basis. We're not just like, hey, we'll work with you, you know, and here you go. And then post about us, okay, but you know, we, we really want to empower not only our customers, but our influencers and our employees and our brand ambassadors, so we're all about trying to get them to be their best self as well. And in terms of tips on working with influencers, you have to realize that influencers are people at the end of the day, and I think it it's a very, very hard job, and career because I you know, I have a YouTube channel, I would say I was an influencer. And I just know how much work it takes at the end of the day, and how stressful the job is. It's truly a 24, seven, all encompassing kind of career. And so just treating influencers with that respect, and knowing how hard they work, to post content for you, I think is really important. Yeah, because it is a very, very hard, hard job. And yet, always trying to figure out how we can help our influencers to and building that long term relationship with them. And I also think the most important thing is finding influencers that fit with your values and your mission and vision. So if you're not gonna find the right kind of influencer, it doesn't matter how big they're following. It's just not gonna work out. We've had great success with influencers have 1000 followers, right? And so for us, it's not about the number of followers but it's really about do they align with our mission and values? First and foremost, Customer Service Tips Stacy Caprio 18:33 I think that's a great way to look at it is more of a relationship and not just a hey, here's our product, and now post a photo, because then it shows their audience that they're really serious about your product, too. And I think it gives you more credibility, but also helps them and it's kind of a win win. How do you view customer service? And is it something that you think has really... /episode/index/show/herceo/id/16447100

4. Momtrepreneur & Founder: Female Owned Company Beaugen & Tu-Hien Le 10/18/2020

4. Momtrepreneur & Founder: Female Owned Company Beaugen & Tu-Hien Le Beaugen Tu-Hien Le is the Founder & CEO of , a mommy lifestyle brand whose mission is to make mommying feel good. Inspired after having her first child, Tu-Hien and her husband started BeauGen to address the pain and struggle of breastfeeding. Since launching into the market in 2016, BeauGen has helped tens of thousands of women find success with their breastfeeding journey. Tu-Hien has a passion for connecting with motivated entrepreneurs and is now coaching business owners how to build, scale, and make money in their own product-based ecommerce business. Tu-Hien lives in Orlando, FL with her husband and daughter. Connect with Tu-Hien via Instagram and Watch this conversation on YouTube: [embed] https://youtu.be/jaEFBJOixHY [/embed] Tu-Hien Le 0:00 I've never run a company before. So it was a lot of self doubt of Who am I to think that I can do this? Or I've never done this before. Am I good enough to be able to do this? And once I realized I was thinking that way and like limiting myself before I even tried. I was like, why am I limiting myself? And that's why I really seek out the different coaches and mentors to help me kind of break that mindset and say, you know, why can't you who's to tell you that you cannot reach these big goals that you have? And like, yeah, that's right. Stacy Caprio 0:37 Hi, and welcome to the Hurst SEO podcast with Stacy Caprio. The best advice comes not from your critics, but from those who are already where you want to be. Listen along with Stacy each week to learn from those who have already built their dreams. So you can learn how to build your two hand is an incredible businesswoman and we get to talk to her in this episode of the podcast. She started her company Beaugen and has grown it to incredible heights. You'll love this episode, if you've ever been interested in starting your own original idea product based business, especially if you have no idea how you would ever get started to hand shares how she came up with the idea of Beaugen to solve her own problem. And you'll learn how she was able to go from product idea to physical production, how she tested and iterated to get to her final sellable product. Even though she was solving their own problem and was her own target market. She talks about how thorough she has been about market research and making sure she's putting out a product that exactly what her target market wants. In this episode, I was trying to get her to share the one thing she has done to have a successful business. And I'm so grateful, she was quick to call me out and explain. There are so many things that go into having a successful business. It is not just one or two golden nuggets, you'll enjoy this conversation if you want to get into the mind of someone who has built a successful business based on her own idea, not one that was built using one tip or trick, but one that has been built over consistent effort and hard work overtime. Like all successful businesses really are. Let's hear what she has to say. hi to him, thank you so much for coming on. I love your company. And your journey is so inspiring. I was hoping we could start with a quick overview of how you started and your background and why you started Beaugen. Tu-Hien Le Founder of Beaugen Tu-Hien Le 2:50 Yeah, thank you so much for having me on the podcast is super exciting. And I would love to share a little bit of my story with you. In 2015, I had my first daughter. And from that I experienced my own personal difficulty and pain from breastfeeding and pumping. And that's the sort of the genesis of Beaugen. And how, in my discovery, I found that I wasn't the only one that felt the same way. And I talked to many other moms and moms could meet in the mom community. Momtrepreneur Solution And a lot of us had shared this, this same pain and discomfort and breastfeeding and pumping. And I was like, Well, if I'm not the only one that has this problem, all these other moms have this problem, why can't we do something about it? So my husband and I actually kind of decided to develop something, a product, we didn't even exactly know what it was when we started develop a solution to solve the issues of discomfort and pumping. And we really took a grassroots approach. So instead of us taking the I have a solution, and here it is, I hope everybody loves it. We really actually, you know, spoke with hundreds of moms to really hone in and figure out what was the pain point. And then and then kind of back into salt solution from there. And that's how Beaugen started. And so it's we've always been a very customer centric company. And we always really listened to what our customers wanted and and their pain point and try to solve it from there. Stacy Caprio 4:33 That's awesome. I think many businesses fail because people don't take into consideration the customers and what they really want. So that's really cool to know that you did that. Where did you find that? customers to kind of talk to to figure out their pain points. Tu-Hien Le 4:52 Yeah, so that's a great question. I start off with just talking within my own network, talking to other mom friends and You know, my cousins and my sisters that just recently had babies. I asked them, like, how do you find solutions? Or where do you find information about mom things? And they always said, Oh, try this blog, or that or Facebook community. And it turns out for new moms, Facebook groups are huge. So within these Facebook groups, there would be like, 10 20,000 moms in these different groups, I would just pose the question like, what's the most difficult thing about pumping? Or what is your biggest challenge with breastfeeding? And then they would comment and and I would just really be methodical and documenting what people would say as far as what their pain points are, find like the common denominator, and then really hone in like, okay, it's actually this specific pain. So like, what can we do to solve this? And really just having a lot of open conversations with different moms and their experiences and seeing if we could find like, a common denominator really, and then testing it out? Stacy Caprio 6:01 That's awesome. I am curious to know, what were the first steps you took when creating your prototype? It's something that if I were manufacturing a product, I would have no idea even Where to start? Starting Her Company & Production Iteration Tu-Hien Le 6:15 Yeah, that's a really good question. So my background is in finance, so I don't have an engineering or manufacturing background at all. So again, I just googled and started talking to people in my community, in my thing, like the entrepreneurial community, and just ask them like, Okay, if I want to start to develop some sort of product, like, what should I do, I'm not a, I'm not a maker, I'm not an engineer. And so they would point me to these different resources. And one of them is a local maker shop. And that's when we, for your audience who may not know maker shops are where people go, and they'll do like wood work, or like electronics, and robotics and sewing, they do all sorts of tinkering, and invention, inventing of things. So we went to maker shop and ask them like, Okay, this is our constraint, this is a problem we're trying to solve, like, What? What can we do? This is what I think this product will look like. And then kind of brainstorm with them and developing the product. And the the, the product development phase is like really interesting, because I really took into consideration all the information that the different moms have told and shared with me about what their pain points were, and then try to distill that to the maker who was like helping us develop our prototype. So yeah, and it was like a really fun journey. I mean, in our first, the first version of our product, we probably developed over 40 prototypes. And I probably, I think I tested every single one of them. And like each one, it was all about testing and getting a little bit better each time. And then, yeah, and then, you know, we got like a very small set of like 20 or 30, moms who were really wanting to help us find the solution, we and we'd send them the prototype and ask them to try it out and give us feedback. And with each feedback, we just kind of keep refining to get better and better. Stacy Caprio 8:20 Wow, that sounds like a really intensive process. Tu-Hien Le 8:25 Yeah, it's a it is it can be it's also fun. And you like learn so much during the journey too. So you might have a preconceived notion of what you think the solution is and what people want. But then when you give it to put in the hands of the customer, they'll tell you something totally different that maybe you didn't even consider. So then you then you start to, you know, tweak and change your prototype, or maybe even the messaging of your product based on their feedback. So a big thing that I took into consideration when developing, building out our breastbone cushion for Beaugen was, we had a, we had a problem solution fit. But then it was also important to have a solution market fit to we can I mean, we solved a problem, but does the market actually want it? So we really took that into consideration by talking to as many customers as we could. Stacy Caprio 9:24 Awesome. So how did you know like when it was the prototype, like when it was finally ready. Tu-Hien Le 9:31 At that time, we were probably on version like 42. And we had a good set of data from our testers and they gave us a lot of feedback like this is, you know, it really helped with comfort, it really helped with fit. And that's when we knew like those were the two key selling points of our product and that's when we say like okay, now it's time to go to market. And what we actually did was for our first version of the breast pump cushions we did a Kickstarter campaign. And a Kickstarter campaign is a crowdfunding campaign. And so we launched the crowdfunding campaign and said, Okay, if we can raise $20,000, then the market is telling us they want this solution. And if we can't raise that much money, then the market doesn't want the solution that was kind of our test of product market fit. And then, you know, after our Kickstarter, Kickstarter campaign, we we raised a little bit over $24,000, I'm like, okay, so there's something here, the market wants a solution. So let's really build this out. And that's when we took that money from our crowdfunding campaign. And we started going into manufacturing and building our tooling. And, and being able to produce an in mass quantity. Finding a Manufacturer Stacy Caprio 10:51 Wow, that's really cool. So did you how did you find your manufacturer? Tu-Hien Le 10:57 So the manufacturing, search is, I must say, it's not easy. It's really just about like, calling around and talking to people. Um, you know, we went to a couple of trade shows where they had, like, different manufacturing and materials, companies, and just having conversation with them and really seeing if they understood, understood our vision, understood our product. And, and then, you know, just trying it from there and seeing who could produce and make our product at a reasonable cost in a reasonable time. Stacy Caprio 11:39 Exactly. That's really cool. So once you started manufacturing, and everything, how did you kind of figure out how much product to make at a time? Mm hmm. And did you that whole process? Tu-Hien Le 11:54 Yeah, that's actually a really good question, too. So we did limited small runs, not knowing how big our market was. So honestly, it was kind of like a guess. Like, we had pre orders from our Kickstarter campaign. So we knew that we have to at least make a certain number of breast pump cushions. But beyond that, we're like, you know, I think that we could sell more if we really ramp up our marketing and advertising campaigns. So it was kind of a guess, like, a lot of it was just trial and error and testing, and seeing how we can penetrate the market and like, increase brand awareness, doing it methodically, and keep testing our audience out. Stacy Caprio 12:41 So how long were you guys profitable? Like, right off the bat? Because you had your Kickstarter? or How long did it take you to hit like when you're finally making profit each month? Launching on Kickstarter Tu-Hien Le 12:55 Yeah, I would say for us, the Kickstarter campaign helped. And we probably broke even, like, pretty quickly, just based on our demand, and the cost of fulfilling all the orders, the pre orders that we had, so if we at least broke even from our initial investment. But from there, it was all about Okay, now that we broke even how do we, how do we grow this company? How do we grow Beaugen to like, the next level? And? Yeah, so it took a lot of like, talking, seeking out mentors, seeking out coaches, a lot of reading surrounding myself with other successful entrepreneurs, and asking a lot of questions, asking a lot of questions. what works, what doesn't work? Why didn't work? Why did it work? Being very curious, and then willing to try new strategies as well? Stacy Caprio 13:53 Interesting. Yeah. And I was, I was just listening to your TLC podcast, and you kind of had mentioned a similar kind of mindset shift where you were at five k months, and that you're able to get to the 65 k months. Uh huh. Really awesome. And I was wondering, what was the biggest part of your mindset shift that you think contributed to that? Tu-Hien Le 14:20 Oh, that's such a good question. Um, you know, I really kind of had to look inside myself and think about what was it that was limiting me and I would say, like, my limiting beliefs of what I could and could not do really held me back. For a long time. I was almost like, being very conservative. Like, you know, I didn't have any, I've never run a company before or built a company before. So it was a lot of self doubt of, who am I to think that I can do this or I've never done this before. "Am I good enough to be able to do this and once I realized that I was thinking that way, and like limiting myself before I even tried. I was like, you know, I shouldn't even Why am I limiting myself? And that's why I really seeked out the different coaches and mentors to help me kind of break that mindset and say, you know, why can't you who say that who's to tell you that you cannot reach these big goals that you have? And like, yeah, that's right." So I really just shifted my mindset like, well, let's try, there's nothing wrong with, quote, failure. That's how you learn. So with each failure is just a stepping stone to get better and stronger, faster, smarter, so so I changed my mindset of like, I needed to get it perfect to let me just try and see what happens. And then I just started taking more risks. And then which, with the more risks I took, the more reward I got, but it was all calculated risk. But I was willing to at least, like take that leap and bet on myself and my ability to figure it out. Stacy Caprio 16:08 Awesome. Wow. And do you find Do you have a goal setting process? Or do you kind of play it by ear? Goal Setting Process Tu-Hien Le 16:17 Oh, I definitely have a goal setting process in within my company. Within Beaugen, we do our OKRs, which stands for objectives and key results. And we're really a firm believer that you don't improve at things unless you measure them. And one of our big objectives is customer loyalty. And, you know, expanding our market, and then which within each of those objectives, we have key results in KPIs key performance indicators that we can measure to make sure that we're moving in the right direction. And I'm a firm believer in setting goals because you don't have goals. And you never know, when you get there, or even you don't even know where you're going. So it really gives you have good direction on in the progress that you're making. Stacy Caprio 17:12 Awesome. So what do you find, has contributed to increasing your customer loyalty? Beaugen Customer Service Tu-Hien Le 17:19 customer loyalty every day, a lot of different factors. At Beaugen Customer service is a huge, huge part of our customer loyalty, we really value the experience that the customers have, when they're interacting with our brand. We really take into consideration how what they think and especially how they feel because our product, isn't it during this very sensitive time for a woman. It's like a big transition time you just gave birth, and now you're feeding a tiny baby, that's depending on you. So yes, so we just want to make sure that we really take into consideration how they feel. And so all the feedback we get from our customers, we really take that and incorporate into our brand and how we how we communicate back with them. So we'll you know, we'll put that in our social media posts and create blog content, video content that addresses how they think and feel. And that hopefully, like creates a stronger bond between our brand and our customers. Stacy Caprio 18:28 Cool. And so what could you kind of describe what marketing channels you currently use for beaugen? Beaguen Marketing Strategy Tu-Hien Le 18:38 Yeah, so we take an omni channel approach for Beaugen we have we have a content marketing strategy. So we do a lot of blogging, and we create YouTube videos, we have Pinterest, different social media platforms like Facebook and Instagram, and we even do a little bit of Tick Tock as well. And we try to be wherever our customers are, and want to be a relatable brand that has fun. Like, you know, we want to have laughs because being a mom, like you have to have a bit of humor in it. That's all like all the sacrifice that we make. And but at the same time, we want to convey that we are at Beaugen we are there to support the moms and show empathy for how they're feeling during this time in their life. Stacy Caprio 19:32 Do you find that you have a lot of mom customers referring other customers to your store? Tu-Hien Le 19:39 Oh yeah, definitely. Beaugen was built on grassroots um, word of mouth organic growth. A lot of it was just within the very active and strong Facebook mom communities just them talking amongst themselves. Moms would ask Hey, I have like that's a really great Painful pumping or I need? Is there a solution for pumping and other moms would say, hey should check out Beaugen. And that's how a lot of our initial traction started. And it's just, you know, almost recently, maybe the beginning of 2019, when we just started seeing a lot more attraction, and that's when we started doing more intentional marketing and the different channels and advertising. Stacy Caprio 20:28 Oh, and what type of ads do you run? And which have you seen the best results from Tu-Hien Le 20:36 you. So we have a pretty detailed ad strategy. But we do all sorts of ads, mostly on Facebook, and a little bit on Pinterest as well. Traffic ads, conversion ads, and then when we run videos, views that helps with our account growth and just brand awareness as well. Yeah, so it all it all definitely helps as far as increasing our brand awareness and helping our account grow. Stacy Caprio 21:04 And what would you say that your biggest marketing success has been? And what have you learned from it? Tu-Hien Le 21:13 Oh, our biggest marketing success. I don't know if I could pinpoint to one thing that's been successful, I can say that for marketing, and it's just been a series of testing, what works and what doesn't. So we would constantly run quick experiments on maybe this copy, or a video instead of images, or on this platform versus, like on Facebook or on Pinterest, and just really constantly refreshing our content that we're advertising. And being very methodical and being intentional. And measuring the results, we're able to see what resonates best with our customers. And then and then kind of doubling down on what's working and then cutting loose what what... /episode/index/show/herceo/id/16447079

3. How to Create a Podcast: How I Started My Own Podcast & The Tools I Use 10/18/2020

3. How to Create a Podcast: How I Started My Own Podcast & The Tools I Use How to Create a Podcast https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HWZbHx_wPgo Podcast Transcription Tool I decided to use to create my podcast video transcripts because it works (pretty much) flawlessly, and is only $10/month that you can use when you need on a monthly on and off basis, so I got it for this month to transcribe all 6 of my episodes. You can also use it for free for small audio files, and that's how I tried it and saw how amazing it was so I had to get premium which is something I don't usually do. You literally upload an audio file to Otter, it takes a few minutes to process it, and then gives you a perfectly transcribed text version ready to copy paste, with all punctuation, amazing spelling, and speaker names and timestamps. I couldn't believe how perfectly it worked, especially because I'd been playing around with Google's Demo transcription tools, which had so much trouble getting punctuation right, among other issues. If you use my referral link to sign up all I get is another month of Otter.ai free, no affiliate money or anything like that, and I love it so feel free to send the free months my way because I'm sure you'll love it as well. My Podcasting Story Because it was my own rule that I didn't listen to podcasts, I thought they were a waste of time. And things that could be summarized in much shorter bullet points. I just really disliked podcasts, which is so funny because now, I obviously have a podcast. Hi, and welcome to the Hearst SEO podcast with Stacy Caprio. The best advice comes not from your critics, but from those who are already where you want to be. Listen along with Stacy each week to learn from those who have already built their dreams so you can learn how to build your own. Welcome to the episode where I'm going to walk you guys through my podcast story. Starting with why I ended up starting my podcast to what tools I use for each step. And to make it easy for anyone thinking about starting a podcast to get started. Or if you're just curious about the behind the scenes of how podcasts are made and what goes into it, then this will be a fun episode to listen to. I've been thinking about starting my her SEO podcast for over six months, from six months ago from now. And I kept pushing it to the bottom of my to do list. Because it was such a daunting task with so many variables and moving parts. First, I'd have to decide exactly what guests I wanted on, then I'd have to email them and see if they were interested, then workout scheduling, and then eventually choose times to record put that in my calendar, then I'd have to have all the proper equipment. And what type of recording software would I use? Choose the type of recording software, choose the hosting for the podcast, which I didn't even know was a thing until I really started researching it, I'd have to edit every single episode, or hire someone to do it. And I have to say, editing podcast episode takes so much time. I only interviewed guests for 30 minutes apiece, but it took me hours to edit each episode. I keep getting better as I go along. But editing podcast episodes is a very very dull, dull task. And it takes a long time. It's the same with editing YouTube videos, it takes so long to really do a good job. And it's not my favorite activity, which is my least favorite part about starting this podcast is editing the episodes. And it's actually the one reason that I might not film as many episodes in the future unless at some point, if the podcast does start making money, and I can hire someone to edit. It's very, if you ever have edited a YouTube video or a podcast video, you'll understand what I'm talking about. But before you actually do it yourself. I don't think you'll ever understand what I mean when I say it's a very difficult task, it's not something you want to do and it takes a lot of time. Anyway, the editing the episodes you have to either do it or hire someone to do it. Then there's the keyword research for YouTube keyword research for blog posts, keyword research for the podcast name, the podcast description, then there's figuring out how to post it on the different podcast networks and getting to rank for organic search, you've got to transcribe the episodes, you have to record the audio, video and video intros and outros. Record the actual audio of the sessions and use a tool to do so. And then you have to figure out how to post the podcast and promote it. You also have to make sure you have a good branding, figure out what images you want to use, maybe have a mini little photo shoot or other things and make sure you're setting up a brand for long term success. So much goes into each episode. And for me, it was daunting to think about, so I just kept pushing it to the bottom of my to do list. Since I wasn't sure when starting my podcast this month, I decided to finally dive into it. I wasn't sure if it would or ever will make any money at all. Or if I even will enjoy it enough to keep doing it past a few episodes. My goal was to keep my costs as low as possible. That's also my philosophy with everything I do even when something is making money. I tend to keep my costs pretty low or at least try to because anything can happen at any time and it's always better to have higher profit margins. Maybe that's something I take away from my days running ads for companies in my nine to five. But my goal is always to keep costs pretty low, but also to use tools that are very high quality. And I will spend money on things if they do work better than the free tools. So let's dive in the goal of my podcast. However, it was never an isn't really to make money from it. It's been able to talk to people who have done things that I admire, and to use the podcast as a learning opportunity that will help me and others listening, grow their own businesses, and really get inside the heads of people who are successful and have done things that I want to do personally or I simply want to understand how their mind works, and get takeaways that I can use in my own life in business. First, I want to give a huge shout out to Nick Loper the owner of the , which you should all go listen to that really I'm going to be talking about Nick and his podcast quite a bit in this episode, because he's had a huge influence. He's pretty much the inspiration for me starting a podcast and I'll kind of go into why that is. Before Nick a few years ago. I never listened to any podcasts ever. I would always listen to music instead, if I ever had any downtime. If I was on a bus or at the airport or just walking or getting groceries, I would either have silence or music. I had been on next email list for a few years the side hustle nation email list. And at first, I never listened to any of his podcasts. Because it was my own rule that I didn't listen to podcasts, I thought they were a waste of time, and things that could be summarized in much shorter bullet points. However, I always read all of Nick's PDF podcast summaries, because they were so interesting with great side hustle case studies and tips. I never listened to the audio, but I would read all of his summaries and I love getting his emails. One day, he asked readers to reply to an email if they had an interesting story, because he was working on a secret project. I was intrigued and replied with my her co website investing story. He replied back and said it wasn't a fit for the project, but that he'd love to talk more. And feature me on the side hustle podcast if it was a fit. At the time I wasn't looking to go on any podcasts, but I felt pulled to say yes, for some reason. Tips For Starting a Podcast And to this day, I feel incredibly lucky or blessed to have gone on his podcast before I went on any other podcasts, simply because next process is so simple and amazing. And I've modeled many of my tools and own podcasting process after his. He has a pre-podcast interview where he hops on a call with each guest to learn more for 30 minutes or so, a few weeks before the actual podcast call. I don't do this with my podcast guests. But I think it's a smart move because it allows him to dig deeper into the person's business model and their thought processes so he can craft the best possible questions before hopping on the actual podcast recording call. Then, and this is an incredible part that has really inspired my podcasting to this day. He has each previous guest mail the next guest a professional quality ATR 2100 audio recording microphone when he mentioned this to me on the pre call. I remember thinking "Do I really need this?" I think I even said something along the lines of "I do I need that I'm not sure that that is really something that will make a difference." And I was super skeptical thinking he was being too perfectionist he However, having that microphone on my first podcast allowed the audio quality to be insanely crisp and perfect. This is so much more important than you might think initially. And a side note he mentioned on the podcast intro how I have a quiet voice. But he must have adjusted the audio and I have to adjust my own audio actually I do have a quiet voice. But you can't tell when listening because the audio on first podcast. It sounds impeccable. And right after that podcast and hearing it live, I was stunned at the difference a quality microphone made. I went out to Amazon, I bought my own , and I have used it on every podcast I've been featured on every podcast I record for her co having the professional quality microphone elevates the audio quality and the whole podcast experience for listeners. There have been some great podcasts I've listened to, that I've had to turn off. Because even though the content is so good, the audio is so scratchy and hard to listen to. Even though the content is great. It's safe to say I no longer think that Nick's request to male microphones to each guest is unreasonable or perfectionist like instead, I recognize it as a way to make the podcast audio, incredibly high quality, elevating the production value in the experience for all listeners, making people want to come back and listen to more because they know you'll have great content, but also great audio that won't hurt their ears or be hard to listen to. So far, I've had guests on that have all done podcasts before or even have their own podcast. So they've had high quality audio, and microphones in their own collection already. But I am considering a male out microphone option for future guests. If they start to fall into the computer only microphone category. Something I've taken away from Nick also is that he asked the best question I've ever heard on a podcast. And he comes at each topic with the mind of an entrepreneur who is interested in knowing the details of the business and starting the business himself. Which is unique from a lot of podcasters who sometimes will ask questions for the benefit of their audience instead of from the perspective of if I was doing this, what would I want to know. So this allows the episodes to be very educational, where you can learn actual tips to start the side hustles yourself and dive deeply into the subject matter, as opposed to surface skimming or stat spouting. His podcast is my favorite side hustle, entrepreneur podcast. And it's the podcast that inspired me to start listening to more podcasts. After I listened to my episode, I started listening to more of his episodes. And I started listening to a few of the other entrepreneurs I follow podcasts in. I especially do this during downtime if I'm doing a repetitive task, if I'm walking somewhere and don't want to be in silence if I'm at the airport, just any time when I have downtime I put in the podcast. And it's actually really nice to listen to. Sometimes you don't need to read a summary bullet point and you get to hear conversation and you get to hear stories and experiences. And it's a different way to learn that I had completely dismissed before being on Nick's podcast and then listening to more of his podcast. So if you are listening to this Thank you, Nick, because you definitely changed my life in the sense of podcasting and listening to podcasts. So since then, I've developed a handful of favorite podcasts that I listened to semi regularly. And I've grown to really enjoy the Nick side hustle nation episode featuring me, the , that I'll put in the show notes so you can all check it out if you want to. Ended up being his second most downloaded for the year with over 60k downloads and it drove hundreds day of and thousands over time site visitors to her.co. And hundreds of people emailed me after it released. And for the next year after the release every single week. I'd get handfuls of emails from his listeners. I still get emails from his listeners. And it also gave me credibility. And it was a huge jumpstart for the her SEO brand. I was able to use that podcast episode on my resume and feature it in my applications to start speaking at a few events as an example of my experience and expertise. In addition to a few blog posts I'd written Podcasts can be a great way to showcase your expertise and show that you do have credibility on a certain subject. They can be a really great tool, either on your resume on your link Or even if you're just submitting to be on a different podcast, if you're submitting to write a blog post, if you're submitting to speaking event, they're a really great tool, even just being featured on a podcast can have a huge impact on your credibility. And if you're looking to become an expert in an area, I would say, gain the experience and then try to get on a few podcasts because other people will see you as more of an expert if you're featured on a podcast talking about that. So it can be a great tool to build your credibility in certain areas, even if you're not starting a podcast yourself. Simply being featured can be enough to give you the credibility, you need to reach your goals in a specific area. The quality of next questions and the high production value of the podcast, as well as his huge audience. And listeners look very loyal listeners made going on that podcast incredibly valuable to me over the next year. Even though it's not something I'd been looking for, I hadn't been looking to go on a podcast. And because of my view, pre site, hustle nation on podcasts, which was very anti podcast, I never would have actually searched one out. Regardless of all the benefits it has. I never really thought about the benefits. And I just really disliked podcasts, which is so funny because now I obviously have a podcast. So my views have changed quite a bit. But the huge benefits from going on Nick's podcasts would never have happened if I'd gone on any other podcast as my first podcast. Because I've been on a few other podcasts. And Nick's has such a large and loyal audience compared to the eyes I've been on, combined with his really good questions, and his perfect audio and great production value, all kind of wrapped together to make it a really valuable experience for launching the her co brand. And for providing a really credible, great piece of content that I was able to have in my resume toolkit. His podcast was able to launch her SEO brand into a bigger space for those reasons. And if I'd started on any other podcast, I don't think that would have happened. And I probably would have maintained my view that podcasts are a waste of time, and not good tools. So it's interesting how your experience with specific podcasts and types of podcasts can kind of shape your future experience. And I'm really grateful that my first experience was on the side hustle nation podcast, which is so well produced, and has such a loyal audience, that my experience was really good. And it catapulted me into the podcast world in a really positive way. It took me a while to build up the courage to start my podcast and I wasn't even thinking about starting one. How to Start a Podcast Right after my episode with Nick it more than a year after I it never even crossed my mind until recently. Because there were so many variables involved and so many things I had never done that I'd have to learn how to do. And it's just it is a big undertaking. And you really want to be sure it's something you want to do before you start it. What helped me actually start was just starting it trusting and taking it step by step. So before I had everything figured out, I started emailing a handful of my dream guests. Before I knew all the technical details or even how I was going to record, I emailed a few of my dream guests and my first email was actually a yes. from Michael asik, who we hear from in episode one. I invited him by replying to one of his daily email newsletters about t shirt sales. And he replied asking for more info. And then he said yes and wanted to be on the podcast. Once I had that confirmation and the first recording booked in my schedule, it was so much easier to figure out the next steps, which was for me to write a rough outline of the questions I wanted to ask and then figure out how I was going to record the episode and then taking it step by step from there, which I will go through below. I decided to use Nick from side hustle nation's microphone brand to record the one that I had already purchased that ATR 2100 microphone which I do highly recommend if you're looking for a microphone. Best Podcast Recording Software And then I also used the same recording software that Nick had used when he interviewed me for side hustle nation which is called , Z and c a s tr at Zen caster.com. It has a free plan, and also has a paid plan but it's been free throughout the corona pandemic so far, no matter how many episodes you record, I love Zencaster, because it really does have the best audio recording out there. The quality is better than the recordings I've done. And it also has to track audio recording. So you can easily edit out coughs or heavy breathing from one person while the other is talking. This means it gives you two different tracks one for each person. So you can just cut out parts from the other person while the other person is talking. And zoom for example, gives you one audio track. So if someone coughs while the other person's talking, it's pretty much in audio and you can't really take it out. However, Zencaster is also right now it's audio only, but they have a video beta and it's launching soon. So there will be opportunities to record using Zen caster and using the video in the near future. I will also leave a link to all the tools I used in the show notes for this episode, so you guys can check them out. If you are interested in starting a podcast, next philosophy with podcasting and something he told me on the right before we started recording the episode is that his goal is to make you look like a genius to make his guests look like they are geniuses. And that is something I have taken away from his podcasting philosophy and aspire to in my own podcast. Because for a few reasons, because it's the best way to build lasting relationships with guests and make them happy they were on the show. It's also the best way to make guests want to share the podcast. And it's the best way to make listeners want to keep listening to your podcast. Because if the guests sound like they're smart and know what they're talking about, which they obviously do, they'll want to listen to the episode so they can learn from the guest. No one wants to listen to someone if they don't know what they're talking about, or they don't have any experience in the area. So if any of the guests sound bad, it's not their fault. It's obviously my questions. And my goal is to make everyone look as good as possible. Which is also a reason that the editing is so dangerous for me because I try to cut out filler words and other things and to make to make the gas to look good, but also to make the experience more... /episode/index/show/herceo/id/16447061

2. B2B Podcasting with Logan Lyles: Podcasting Tips From a Podcast Production Company 10/18/2020

2. B2B Podcasting with Logan Lyles: Podcasting Tips From a Podcast Production Company B2B Podcasting Logan Lyles, director at , a podcast production company, also produces the company's top 100 Marketing Podcast the . Logan shares his unique podcasting tips that can a help a business generate new sales, customers, content and more. He also shares unique ways to organically promote your podcast through how you set it up and structure it. Watch Logan and Stacy talk about B2B podcast production tips: [embed] https://youtu.be/hnfguVcvWYo [/embed] Logan Lyles & Sweet Fish Media Logan Lyles 0:00 Other people find that getting up to the mic is way easier than staring at the blank screen with the blinking cursor and trying to create written content from scratch. So podcasting can kind of grease the wheels and help you create more content that then you can turn into written content and video content, short form LinkedIn posts, long form blog posts, those sorts of things. Stacy Caprio 0:23 Hi, and welcome to the Hurst SEO podcast with Stacy Caprio. The best advice comes not from your critics, but from those who are already where you want to be. Listen along with Stacey each week to learn from those who have already built their dreams so you can learn how to build your own. In this episode, we get to talk to Logan of sweet fish media. Logan not only directs a full service podcast production company called Sweet fish media, and is the host of the b2b growth show podcast. He's an incredible podcaster and the most strategically thoughtful podcaster I've ever met, the way he structured everything from his podcast names to the thumbnails to the marketing and promotion are so thoughtful in a way that will not only bring more podcast listeners, but also increase sales for the company running the podcast. I've never spoken to anyone so strategic and good at aligning running a podcast and actually getting business results from it. In this episode, we get to hear all his juicy podcast tips. And we get a behind the scenes peek of what has worked for his own podcasts. And his many successful suite media client podcasts. He's the most qualified podcaster I know of. And I'm very happy. I was able to have him on the show before I officially launched this podcast because I was able to structure things differently. And plan my promotion and production strategy for the best possible results after learning how the best of the best in the podcasting business, aka Logan, and sweet fish do it. Hi, Logan, thank you so much for coming on today. And I was hoping we could start going over your background how you got into podcasting, sweet fish media and how your company helps podcasts and businesses. Logan Lyles 2:27 Yeah, absolutely. Stacy, thank you so much for having me on today. It was great to meet you via LinkedIn and I love making LinkedIn friends, friends in real life as as much as we can be in real life these days. And and podcasting is a great way to do that. My name is Logan Lyles. I'm the director of partnerships at sweet fish media. We are a podcast agency for b2b brands. So we help companies that sell business to business, develop and continue production have a podcast that they use for both their content marketing efforts as well as a creative way to engage decision makers at Target accounts that their sales teams are trying to reach. I kind of had a winding road getting into my current role in b2b marketing and in podcasting in particular. So I actually graduated college in 2008. With a journalism degree which I always tell the story, you know, it was a great time to graduate college and hit the job market during the Great Recession and also a great time to hit the job market with a journalism degree when the news industry was going through all sorts of convergence and newspapers were closing their doors, left and right all over the country. I quickly sold my way into my first sales job, and did that for about 10 years, I actually sold locally and regionally b2b office equipment. And for anyone who you've ever heard say, Oh, it was in the office equipment industry or I sold office equipment. That's code for I sold copiers and printers. So anyway, I did that very fun job for about 10 years. And then I came across sweet fish media by getting to know James Carberry, our founder and CEO Now, a few years back through LinkedIn, and we became friends and I was eventually the first sales hire at sweet fish. And so for the last two years, I've been heading up sales for our podcast agency, being the serving as one of the primary co hosts of our flagship show b2b growth, where we interview b2b Marketing Leaders every single day. And I also do some other hosting and content creation on the team as well. I'm a host for some of the shows that we produce for our clients. Stacy Caprio 4:34 Awesome, thank you. Yeah, that's a really interesting background. And one question I have is, what are the benefits you've seen for businesses who you've helped have podcasts as well as your own podcast? Benefits of a Podcast Logan Lyles 4:49 Yeah, there's really three primary benefits I think about when it comes to podcasting, especially in b2b and I think the first two are fairly obvious to folks. One is It's brand awareness, I literally hopped off a sales call earlier today, probably 30 minutes ago. And that person on the other end of the line said, I feel like I already know you. And this was the literally the first time we had spoken live or been on a zoom call, because they've been listening to our podcast very regularly. And podcasting is such an intimate medium. So creating brand awareness and helping people get to know you before they actually know you would be number one. Number two is that you know, a lot of people find that getting up to the mic is way easier than staring at the blank screen with a blinking cursor and trying to create written content from scratch. So podcasting can kind of grease the wheels and help you create more content that then you can turn into written content and video content, short form, LinkedIn posts, long form, blog posts, those sorts of things. So most people I talked to, they understand the brand awareness, and the faster content creation that can come from having a podcast. The third one that I think has been the biggest benefit, and has really changed my sales career that a lot of people aren't thinking about is a strategy that we call in our CEOs book is titled, content based networking. So a lot of people understand content marketing, you create content for the people that you want to sell to. And then they will become educated and or entertained by your content. And then you will be top of mind when they're ready to buy your product or service. content based networking says don't just create content for those folks create it with them. So in our case, on b2b growth, there's a reason that I head up sales for sweet fish. And I'm also the primary host of our podcast. And that is, I interview people who fit our buyer persona. So instead of just hoping that VP of Marketing at b2b tech companies who are our typical buyer persona, find our podcast, listen, and then find out more about sweet fish, which definitely happens. But the the other side of it is, I interview people who regularly can buy from us and it opens up the door to a new relationship that wouldn't have been there otherwise. So we actually look at our podcast in it as driving revenue for our business. But not just the audience. It's the guests as well. And a lot of people skip over that. But it was from that that I kind of sold my way into my first sales job. I spent about 10 years doing office equipment sales copiers and printers in local b2b sales in different regions. And I got to know the founder of sweet fish through LinkedIn. So, link, I'm a big proponent of LinkedIn as a content channel. But also just in my own career journey. LinkedIn played a huge role in allowing me to connect with one of my best friends. And now my current boss James Carberry, who's the founder and CEO at sweet fish. And so now I head up sales for sweet fish. I've been doing that for about two years. And as I mentioned, we we are a podcast agency for b2b brands, I head up sales, and I also am the primary host of our daily show for b2b marketing and sales professionals b2b growth. And that's what I'm doing today. And I kind of love it, because it's this mixture of sales, marketing and journalism that I get to kind of wear all three hats at once in my current role, and I drawn draw from, you know, each part of those different pieces my background every day, so it's a ton of fun. Stacy Caprio 8:28 Oh, that's awesome. Yeah. Interesting. You say that about LinkedIn. James had actually reached out to me on LinkedIn after hearing about the website investing, and suggested I reached out to you and I mentioned the podcast, so small world, how we all get connected through that. Yeah, Logan Lyles 8:45 exactly. And LinkedIn plays a big part of that, at least for me these days. Stacy Caprio 8:49 Me too. And I always read every connection request. So I think it's a great tool for people doing sales and outreach as well. Logan Lyles 8:57 For sure. Stacy Caprio 8:58 So that's an awesome background. What would you say, to any business who's hesitating to start a podcast? What are the benefits they can gain from having one? Long Term Benefits of a Podcast Logan Lyles 9:10 Yeah, absolutely. I would say there's really long term benefit. But then there's also short term benefit, you know, businesses that hesitate to invest in, you know, what I think of as top of the funnel marketing, brand awareness, thought leadership, things that don't necessarily lead to this conversion equals this sale. Sometimes folks hesitate to invest in that sort of marketing and and podcasting, or organic LinkedIn content, they fit into that bucket. But the way that we approach podcasting is not meant to just provide your brand with more thought leadership content. If you think about a podcast, it's usually an interview, just like this one that we're doing right now. And what does an interview need an interview needs a guest and what we found out a long time ago, five years ago, and when James Founded sweet fish media is that when you invite people who fit your buyer persona to be guests on your podcast, you're not only playing the long game of creating content that other people who fit that persona will learn from, and then be aware of your brand and then maybe buy from you. That person who is the guest, if they fit your buyer persona, guess what they could buy from you directly, or they could refer a friend directly to you. And so a lot of folks, just think about the content marketing benefit of a podcast. And we're all about that we help our customers take raw interviews on Zen caster or zoom, turn them into video clips, turn them into LinkedIn content, turn them into finished podcast episodes. So I don't want to downplay the content marketing benefits of a podcast. But the other side of it kind of the other side of the double edged sword, as I often put it, is what we call content based networking, the way that you can network the way that you can build new relationships through content collaboration. And so if your brand has a podcast, instead of just having your CEO or your marketing leader, talk about your product, or service, or even the industry that you serve, have the majority, or at least a good portion of the interviews that you do with your podcast, feature people who fit your buyer persona, because then you're playing the long game of content marketing, but you're taking the shortcut to through what we call content based networking, where you're building relationships that can map to revenue and can lead to legitimate business results that are very easy to track. Can B2C Businesses Benefit From a Podcast? Stacy Caprio 11:36 That's awesome. And do you think that an e commerce business should also have a podcast to build the connection like that? Or is it only for businesses that are more sales focused? Logan Lyles 11:52 Yeah, I would say, you know, if you are a direct to consumer brand, and you're an e commerce business, the the benefit of content based networking might not be as direct as maybe a company that is sells b2b. And sells, you know, one to one, they have a sales team that sells, you know, one to one face to face, or at least face to face over zoom these days, you might not get the relationship benefits, but an e commerce business, there are probably folks in your space that are that would be good partners for you to have that might be some sort of distribution partner or someone else who is trying to reach the same the same audience that you're trying to reach. So having a podcast and featuring them and cross promoting each other's content, you can still build key relationships, they might just not be directly with the end consumers of your product if you're an e commerce business, but pretty much any business is driven forward by some sort of relationships. And so thinking about how can I invest in relationships and content at the same time? I think if you think about it that way, an e commerce brand still could definitely benefit from a podcast. Stacy Caprio 13:04 Awesome. Have Do you have any favorite examples of sales relationships or relationships that have really blossomed or that you've directly seen benefit from an originate from a podcast? Logan Lyles 13:21 Yeah, absolutely. So I mean, the short story is, I interview VPS of marketing at b2b tech companies with 50 plus employees every single day on our podcast and a lot of them that the reason I'm able to spout off those demographics so easily is because that's our buyer persona that is most often the demographics and and the look and feel of someone and the type of company that would usually buy our podcast production service. And oftentimes I'm talking with them. And after post interview, after we conduct a podcast interview, they bring up to me Wait, you guys don't just produce this show. you produce podcasts. We've been thinking about that for a long time. I didn't even know there were specifically a podcast agency, let alone a podcast agency, just for b2b brands that can help us out. And then we we have a conversation. And so it was within the first 60 days of starting to be a regular co host on b2b growth. Then I closed the deal with actually an SEO agency that hired us to be their podcast production company. You know, one of my favorite stories is actually how I became an employee of sweet fish. And so this story actually relates to a podcast guest becoming a customer but also recruiting new employees. So several years back, my wife and I and our two kids were living in Texas and we were looking to relocate back to Colorado where most of our family lives. And I was looking at companies that were doing cool things out in Colorado not sure what my next move was going to be. And I started following this company on LinkedIn called Bom Bom. Bom Bom is a video Sending platform, they let you record and send one to one personal videos via email and text so that you can get face to face when you're not face to face. And I thought was a really cool company. So I started following them on LinkedIn. And then I saw that they promoted this virtual summit that was going on. And it was sweetish media that was putting it on. And so I signed up for it, I got access to some of the videos that were being released on demand. And one of the people who's being interviewed was at that time their VP of Marketing Ethan Butte, and he was doing an interview with the CEO of sweet fish James Carberry. And that was great content, I got on the email list of sweet fish. And it was actually through that that then I met, I connected with James on LinkedIn, we became friends, we started engaging with each other's content. And eventually James hired me to be the first full time sales hire at sweet fish. The really cool part about the story I think, is not only did that content collaboration lead to my becoming a an employee of sweet fish, but about a year after joining sweet fish, maybe within eight months, Ethan from bom bom who had been featured as a guest on that content summit with with James reached out to me and said, Hey, we're thinking about starting a podcast, we'd like to see if sweet fish might, you know, be the right fit to help. And Ethan and the team at bom bom became a customer so that content collaboration reached me. And I ended up becoming a customer of sweet fish. And Ethan, who was not the audience, but he was the guest in that content collaboration scenario, later became a customer after I joined as as a salesperson at sweet fish. And so it just kind of came full circle, just seeing the power of the content, the power of the relationships and the relationships in a variety of different ways in both recruiting and gaining customers. So I tell that story a lot, because I can remember when that happened, it just it brought it full circle for me to see the benefits of what James talks about in his book, The strategy that we call content based networking. Stacy Caprio 17:08 That's awesome. Yeah, it sounds like you've made a lot of connections that way. And it's a podcast is really such a great connector and business tool. My next question would be, what are the biggest mistakes you've seen when people start a podcast? Or even just ongoing that hurts their podcast, in the short and long term? Podcast Marketing Tips & Mistakes Logan Lyles 17:35 Yeah, I think one of the biggest mistakes that brands make with their podcast is something early on. And it is a pretty crucial decision because it affects whether you're going to get the right guests, it affects the search ability and the discoverability of your podcast. And that is the name of your show. I see companies go wrong in really two main areas, they name the show after their company, which no one is searching Apple podcasts for your company name when they're looking for a new podcast to subscribe to. So you're not doing yourself any favors. And plus, you know, if we had the sweet fish media podcast, that to me would be like putting LinkedIn thought leader in my LinkedIn headline, I don't think it's something that you should ascribe to yourself, you should let others call you a thought leader. And I think naming your podcast after your company. It's kind of right in line with that. So naming your podcast after your company, I think is a bad move. The other that I think you could get wrong is naming the podcast around your expertise. So a lot of folks think about this. And they're like, well, we want to be a thought leader in podcasting, or sales or HR, whatever it is, and they name their podcast around their expertise. And here's a scenario and why that would not work out well. If we at Sui fish had the b2b podcasting podcast. You know, it's not the Swedish media show, but it is about our expertise in podcasting. I wouldn't be able to invite marketing leaders who could buy from us to be guests on the show. If because most often, they would say, well, we haven't done a podcast yet. I don't have anything to add a value to the b2b podcasting podcast. Now, what we did is we reverse engineered the name of our show, so that it was crystal clear for our guests that they could come on and be a featured Rockstar guest the name of our show is b2b growth. When we invite b2b marketing and sales leaders on they can talk about how they're driving growth for their organizations. And guess what we can do a how to podcast episode we can do an episode on podcasting within that show. But going one level away from your expertise, and branding your show around your ideal buyer and their expertise is going to help you create better content, get the guests that you want to get on and be able to be found by more listeners. The other area just from a discoverability point I'll point out is a pitfall naming... /episode/index/show/herceo/id/16447022

1. Michael Essek - T-Shirt Side Hustle to T-Shirt Business Success Story 10/18/2020

1. Michael Essek - T-Shirt Side Hustle to T-Shirt Business Success Story Michael Essek's T Shirt Side Hustle to T-Shirt Business Success talks about his successful online T-Shirt company, his own marketing and sales tips, and how to go about starting your own print on demand T-Shirt company. Michael Essek helps designers and illustrators come up with creative T-Shirt ideas, create better designs, and grow a long-term business from their art. Michael has been designing and selling T-Shirts online since 2013, primarily through Print on Demand sites like Redbubble, Merch by Amazon and Teepublic, and using Print on Demand companies like Printful. To start improving your ideas today - visit [embed] https://youtu.be/FnESOm2ZokY [/embed] T Shirt Sales Marketing Tip Michael Essek 0:00 A lot of times people will buy a shirt as a kind of afterthought. They'll be like, Oh, that's funny. I'm gonna buy that and click click, click and they've bought it without really going through a process of That's amazing. Wow, I really need that you know data and then thinking about it for days or anything like that. So anyway, you can kind of make the T shirt fit that mold if you like fit that pathway, so that someone notices it thinks it's cool goes looking for it, finds it and buys it without you know, making too big a deal of it. Stacy Caprio 0:30 Hi, and welcome to the Her.CEO podcast with Stacy Caprio. The best advice comes not from your critics, but from those who are already where you want to be listed along with Stacey tweak to learn from those who have already built their dreams so you can learn how to build your own. Today we get to talk to Michael Essek who sells t shirts online. I followed Michael's t shirt selling journey for over six years. Ever since I started my own Etsy and print on demand shop and was looking for tips and help to get better designs and more sales. His 10k plus a month income reports were one of the things that inspired me to originally get into t shirt sales, currently selling on still, but it's much harder than it looks. And when I focused on T shirts solely. I've had some pretty good multi thousand income supporting months, but nothing compared to Michael. His idea structures, which he shares and almost daily emails and brainstorming idea output are incredibly prolific. I recommend hopping on his email list if you're looking to learn new structures you can use to brainstorm ideas in any niche or in any business sector. Or if you're looking to grow as a print on demand apparel seller, and stay up to date on the new trends and updates on print on demand and T shirt news. In this episode, Michael shares some great marketing and sales tips. A surprising perspective on how to do more effective influencer marketing the different ways he is now selling his shirts, including different platforms licensing and more, and his own experiences and growth in the T shirt sales arena. This is a great episode for you if you're interested in diving into any type of trendy e commerce or t shirt sales niches, or just learning how to think of new ideas and market and sell products online. I'll go into some of my favorite takeaways from this episode at the end. So hang around for that. Without further ado, let's hear Michael story and learn his t shirt selling tips. Hi, Michael, thank you so much for coming on the show. I followed your T shirt, emails and blog for a while now. And I was thinking that you could start by giving the listeners some background, how you got into the T shirt design space, and an overview of how you've progressed since starting. Michael Essek Michael Essek 3:00 Sure. Well, thanks for having me, Stacy, it's a pleasure to be to be here with you today. So I started I think around 2013 2014, I had a small website, a blog that I was running, which I sold to someone. And what I didn't realize in the selling process was that I was going to lose the income from that blog that I was getting on a monthly basis. So I quite soon set out to find another way to get some some income in. And one of the things I stumbled across was people selling illustrations and stuff on on online on T shirts or on prints and stuff. So I decided I would try and teach myself to be better. At the illustration side, I've always kind of been pretty good at art and design. But I didn't know how to use Adobe Illustrator very well. And I saw that a lot of these guys were using Adobe Illustrator and stuff. So I saw it as a kind of learning opportunity and a project for me to work on a kind of side hustle at the time while I had a full time job. So I created some designs started uploading them to or I would say offering them to, at the time what were known as sure today sites like t fury, and others and these were sites that would sell a design for 24 hours and then they would take it down. So yeah, after maybe a couple of months, I think of trial and error. I eventually got a design accepted by one of these sites, made a few hundred dollars in the 24 hours and that kind of hooked me and and I thought okay, this is possible. There's a lot of these websites, there's a lot of places to sell my work. And if I just put in the work and have enough designs, then eventually this could be you know, a full time full time gig. But it took a long time to get there. It was maybe two two or three years later, before I really grew the income to to what was matching my my job income at the time. And that was right around the time that Amazon launched a service called merged by Amazon where they would Print and ship t shirts. And you could upload designs directly to Amazon, they would do everything else. And that really was a godsend for me that was came at just the right time, I had lots of designs, I was able to get them up very quickly on Amazon. And basically why ride a wave of popularity, your early sales and momentum in that space. And that really allowed me to, to Yeah, to quit my job go full time on T shirts. And I've been doing that ever since. Stacy Caprio 5:32 Wow, that's awesome. So I have to ask, I'm curious, what was the originally? What was the niche? Michael Essek 5:42 Yeah, it was, it was actually like a hyperlocal blog to where I was living at the time. So it wasn't, it wasn't ever making lots of money or anything, but it was just a super local news site. And I was just kind of gathering, you know, interesting stories and, and sharing them online. And it got a bit of a following. And it got it was kind of just as Twitter was taken off. So I'd quite an active Twitter account as well. So yeah, I just kind of lost interest in the project and sold it. So it wasn't ever a big thing for me. But I guess it just shows up. I've always been interested in I don't know, getting things set up online and growing an audience and things like that. Stacy Caprio 6:20 Yeah, that must have kind of helped you transition more seamlessly into the T shirt, online selling space. So that's really cool. The next thing I want to ask was, which marketing channels and platforms do list on today? Do you focus mostly on March? or what have you found to be effective? Sell T Shirts Online Michael Essek 6:42 Yeah, good question. So I started off getting sales through sites like and , you know, several years ago, and those are still bringing in, you know, good income for me every month, obviously, was the one that came along and really took off. And that's still still going strong. And previously, I've sold and still have a Shopify site where I sell some stuff, but I don't really promote that much anymore. So those are the kind of the main channels and then Etsy has been a big one. And that's, that's picked up quite significantly in the past few months, along with almost everything else actually apart from obviously merge by Amazon, which has been down for a while, I'd say in terms of like the ones that are the biggest, in a usual month, when we aren't in the middle of a global pandemic, then it would be much by Amazon, then probably redbubble, then teepublic, and then Etsy, somewhere in the mix there as well. And then there's a whole series of other smaller websites. So I still have designs on like society, six, designed by humans and several others like that. And the other route through which I kind of make money from my art is offline licensing. So we have an agent for my business, who basically promotes my work to various manufacturers and retailers, usually in the offline arena. And, and yeah, we make royalties through that as well, the harder to track, you don't get notifications on sales, you know, in real time, like you do with lots of online sources, but we still, you know, make a significant income from that. And that tends to be growing every year very steadily, because it's not as wide open to issues and copycats and things like that. And it's more of a long term business play, if you like. So we have that going as well. Stacy Caprio 8:29 Oh, that's awesome. How did you find out about licensing or connect with your agent? T Shirt Business Success Michael Essek 8:37 I think a couple of years into maybe new t shirt business, if you like that i i set up and started once it was once I was going full time on T shirts, I kind of realized, you know, we had at least hundreds if not thousands of designs at that time. And I thought, you know, we got all these designs, and obviously we put them up online and we sell them through various places. And that's great. But there's there seems to me that there would be other other channels, and one of them was offline. So that the problem was how do we how do we find those people? You know, how does how does that side of the business work? So what I did was was put together my designs in a big, big catalog, like an a three, like ring binder catalog, we had like a few of these printed and we went down to a licensing show in London, there's a licensing Expo every year. There's also one in in Las Vegas every year which is run by the same organization. And this is really where a lot of big brands, cutting their work Warner Brothers, these kind of you know, mega brands will go and conduct their licensing business where they'll go in and talk to potential manufacturers and retailers who wants to be able to sell whatever it is Peppa Pig lunchboxes or you know, Dexter's lab, socks or whatever it is. So they'll go and meet those people at this at this licensing show. And we had a little booth there. Me and my you know, little tiny booth, it was a fraction of the size of, of the big guys, but they didn't have kind of a section that was suitable for like, artists and illustrators and more, you know, independent businesses. So we were there. And it was a show for the most part, but we did meet, you know, I don't know, five or six people that were really good connections over the course of the three days. And one of them was, was our now licensing agent, I think he was, I don't know whether he'd stumbled across us before he actually attended the show. Because usually, you know, on trade shows, they publish a list of who's going to be there and what, who's at what stalls and stuff like that. So I think he actually reached out before the show, but then I met him at the show, you know, he looked over our stuff, it was a good fit for him. He was just losing an artist who was who was no longer going to be licensing with him. So he was looking for someone to fill the space. And yeah, it was a good it was a good fit. He had obviously a lot of connections with retailers across the United States, mainly, but but worldwide as well. So yeah, that's, that's how we got that connection and got that ball rolling. And it's been a slow burner, but it's been a good an additional leg of our business, if you like. Stacy Caprio 11:06 Yeah, that's really great. Is is the fee for that? Is it based on percentage of sales? Or is it simply just like a flat fee for each design he Commission's Michael Essek 11:21 know that so it's usually based on sales as a percentage of the sales that the retailer or the manufacturer generates through your design. So in that way, it's not it's not dissimilar to the system that works online with most of your your print on demand site to read bubbles and such. But it is different in the sense that, like I said, you don't get real time feedback on this stuff, you're usually entering into an arrangement for at least 12 months, if not more. And every retailer manufacturer is different. They all have different kind of needs and areas that they serve. We have a calendar deal kind of going on right now. So we've we've I think we did a 2020 calendar, we've got a 2021 calendar, and then we're working now on the 2022 calendar. So it's a good, you know, kind of long term business plan. Well, once you get established with one of these retailers, if they sell your work, and then they like it, then they'll recommission it. And you could be looking at, you know, pretty steady income and sales for for years rather than just, you know, weeks or months and stuff. Stacy Caprio 12:23 Yeah, that's really cool. I think most t shirt designers that I know simply list on different platforms. So to have a licensing contract could be really cool for long term revenue. Like you said, I was wondering, do you use any ads on any of your platforms? Or do you rely on just organic and word of mouth T Shirt Ads Michael Essek 12:49 the for the most part, it is purely organic. I have experimented with ads, I've never really done ads on Amazon or I don't know where else you can go could like Etsy, you can do ads there and I think they're actually now compulsory with with our store that Etsy will show ads to our stuff. And then we have to pay a percentage to Etsy, if we make a sale through one of their ads or whatever, in terms of me running ads and stuff. I've never done it at scale and never really done it that successfully. You know, I've played around with Facebook ads I played around with with Instagram and stuff never really cracked it, I've always found it quite difficult to sell t shirts through ads like that. The only place where I've had probably the best success is doing sponsored posts on Instagram. A few years ago, I was regularly doing sponsored posts with with certain Instagram accounts and influencers in in my niche, I guess you could call it and that was was profitable and quite quite successful. And I would just reach out to these people and say, you know, I have these t shirts, I think they're a good fit, would you like to pick a design to promote and then I'll pay you to, you know, to promote it and mention it or something. And usually we'd work back and forth you know, for quite a while to actually get the get the creative rights we'd usually like format into some kind of meme or joke or, or something like that. So it wasn't just a flat picture of a T shirt or something, you know, really boring like that that people are used to seeing and yeah, that's that's been successful for me and I think the the only reason I've kind of slowed down on that is because we were doing so well with organic based stuff that it was kind of draining it was quite time consuming to do that. But I would definitely recommend that to people as a as a relatively low cost way of dipping your foot in to advertising and without having to learn all the you know the ins and outs of click through rates and all the kind of technicalities that come with Facebook ads and stuff like that. Stacy Caprio 14:49 Oh, that's awesome. Did so when you use the influencer marketing? Do you drive them to your Shopify or Etsy or which channel Michael Essek 15:00 Yeah, so usually the the Instagram account would put my the link to my Shopify store in the in their bio. And when we do it that way, I would always drive them to my Shopify store, never to a print on demand site or anything like that, because that's, you're, obviously you're not making as much profit if you're driving through a print on demand site. And if you have your own Shopify store, and you're using a print on demand company like printful, or printer fi, then your profits can be much higher per order. And obviously, that's something that's very helpful when you're trying to do advertising. Stacy Caprio 15:34 Yeah. And did you ever use an influencer, where you saw it didn't produce positive sales? Or did they all pretty much drive some level of traffic? T Shirt Influencer Marketing Michael Essek 15:49 I think that they all did drive traffic, there were certainly influences I used and campaigns I did that were not profitable. But in the long run, what I would recommend people do and what I did, which worked was to never just do one of anything, you know, never do one. You know, let's try it. Let's do one and leave it there, I would always do a campaign with these guys where I'd run, you know, sponsored post every other day for like a week or something like that. So it'd be like five posts or seven posts in total. And then obviously, some of them would would bomb, some of them would be okay. And then usually you'd have one, maybe two that would do quite well, and then taken in the round, you know, it would usually work out profitably in total. I mean, it didn't always work with every influencer, I used obviously, is kind of hit and miss. But if you can do that, and you can kind of scale that, which I think is probably easier today than it was three or four years ago, then then yeah, I think that's a good way of doing it. If you make sure that you don't ever put all your eggs in one basket and you treat it as a learning experience, you know, you're going to go in and see what works and find out what this audience responds to and users are kind of tool to help you see, okay, this design doesn't really fit. But this one did really well. Look at the comments on this, look at the comments on that. And it just kind of helps you, you know, find your way forward, which I think is the is the ideal way to think about it rather than just, Oh, that one didn't work. This whole thing doesn't work. It's never going to work and giving up. Stacy Caprio 17:19 Yeah, that's a good way to think about it, just testing and trying new things. Do you have any tips when choosing an influencer? Anything you noticed that made those campaigns more successful? Michael Essek 17:34 Yeah, I think it really comes down to knowing your audience and stuff. I was certainly very involved at the time with with Instagram and stuff. So I was always on Instagram, I was very familiar with, you know, the audience, I was trying to target. I was following a lot of these accounts. I knew them, you know, innately almost. So when I reached out, it was easy to have those conversations, we were on the same level. What I was, you know, talking about was not confusing, you know, they understood the jokes that were on my T shirts, I was usually asking them to pick which designs they'd like to promote, so that they weren't just, you know, I wasn't saying promote this design that I was letting them, you know, pick, I was saying, Hey, here's 20 new designs we've just created, do any of them, you know, which ones would you like to go with and stuff like that, definitely making it more of a interaction and a partnership, really, rather than just I'm buying ad space on your Instagram account. The other thing is that it's so important to tell a story in your marketing beyond just, hey, look at this product. And that's it, you know, the ones the posts that were the most successful for me, the sponsored posts that really did well was when the the account was doing something funny, usually stuff, like they'd be doing some kind of joke and they just be wearing my T shirt and it kind of be in the background or something like that. So anything where you can kind of not make it about the shirt, but make the shirt kind of secondary, you know, something in the background, something that people might notice, but it's not you know, making it this big thing about the T shirt... /episode/index/show/herceo/id/16446950

The Her.CEO Entrepreneur Podcast: Learn to Grow Your Business & Make Money

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