Justice In America
Justice in America, hosted by Josie Duffy Rice and Clint Smith, is a podcast for everyone interested in criminal justice reform— from those new to the system to experts who want to know more. Each episode we cover a new criminal justice issue. We explain how it works and look at its impact on people, particularly poor people and people of color. We’ll also interview activists, practitioners, experts, journalists, organizers, and others, to learn. By the end of the episode, you’ll walk away with a better understanding of what drives mass incarceration and what can fix it.
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Restorative Justice and the Open Prison Model: Featuring David Shipley (A Co-Production by The Appeal and The Wall: Behind and Beyond)
06/07/2023
Restorative Justice and the Open Prison Model: Featuring David Shipley (A Co-Production by The Appeal and The Wall: Behind and Beyond)
Since you last heard from us at Justice in America, we’re excited to share that The Appeal became a worker-led nonprofit newsroom. We are continuing to expose the harms of the criminal legal system and elevate solutions that keep all people safe. While Justice in America remains on hiatus for now, we are thrilled to share our first podcast episode since our relaunch: a co-produced episode of "The Wall: Behind and Beyond," hosted by Phillip A. Jones, who has spent more than 30 years in prison in Maryland and Washington. In this episode, Phillip interviews David Shipley about his experiences in a British "open prison," where there are no guards, no bars, and prisoners are free to leave during the day to work or study in the community. As David says, "It's the most free you can be while still being in prison." Phillip and David discuss the promises and limitations of this model, as well as the challenges in implementing a similar model in the United States. Please note: The this audio was recorded by Philip while in his cell as the Washington Department of Corrections does not provide prisoners with access to high-quality studios. To support our work, please consider making to The Appeal today or . You can also follow Phillip (@PhillipAJones71) and David (@ShipleyWrites) on Twitter and subscribe to The Wall: Behind and Beyond podcast to hear more of their work.
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Episode 30: A Conversation with Rodney Spivey-Jones and Max Kenner
04/29/2020
Episode 30: A Conversation with Rodney Spivey-Jones and Max Kenner
In January 2020 Josie Duffy Rice and her producer, Florence Barrau-Adams, traveled to Fishkill Correctional Facility in Beacon New York to interview Rodney Spivey-Jones and Max Kenner. Max is the founder and Executive Director of the Bard Prison Initiative, and Rodney received his bachelor’s degree from Bard College in 2017 through the Bard Prison Initiative. Rodney has been incarcerated for 17 years, and is currently incarcerated at Fishkill. Both are featured in the PBS documentary series . They joined Josie to discuss why Max started BPI 20 years ago, Rodney's experience as part of BPI, and what he hopes to do upon his release. For more information please visit
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Episode 29: Schools in Prison
04/22/2020
Episode 29: Schools in Prison
On this episode of Justice in America, Josie Duffy Rice and her co-host Derecka Purnell talk about education in prisons. They'll discuss the impact of having access to education, the dire lack of available programming, and what happened to prison education after the 1994 crime bill. They're joined by Dyjuan Tatro and Wesley Caines, alumni of the Bard Prison Initiative. The Bard Prison Initiative is a college program offered through Bard College in six New York State prisons. It's also the subject of a critically acclaimed new documentary series on PBS, called College Behind Bars. For transcripts and more information please visit .
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Dyjuan Tatro and Wes Caines’ Book Recommendations
04/22/2020
Dyjuan Tatro and Wes Caines’ Book Recommendations
Wesley Caines is the Chief of Staff at the Bronx Defenders and an alum of the Bard Prison Initiative or BPI and Dyjuan Tatro, works at the Bard Prison Initiative as their Government Affairs Officer and he’s also an alumnus of the program. Wes and Dyjuan joined host Josie Duffy Rice to talk about their reading recommendations. For show notes and more information please check out theappeal.org.
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Interviewing the creators of College Behind Bars
04/22/2020
Interviewing the creators of College Behind Bars
In this bonus episode, Josie Duffy Rice and her co-host Derecka Purnell talk to Lynn Novick and Sarah Botstein, the creators of . College Behind Bars, which was directed by Novick and produced by Botstein, is a four-episode documentary series about the Bard Prison Initiative, one of the most innovative and challenging prison education programs in the country. Josie and Derecka talk to Sarah and Lynn about the years they spent making the film, what they learned, and the future of prison education in America. For transcripts please visit
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Lynn Novick and Sarah Botstein's Book Recommendations
04/22/2020
Lynn Novick and Sarah Botstein's Book Recommendations
Director Lynn Novick and Producer Sarah Botstein, the creators of , join hosts Josie Duffy Rice and Derecka Purnell to talk about their book recommendations. For show notes and more information please check out .
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Episode 28: School to Prison Pipeline
04/15/2020
Episode 28: School to Prison Pipeline
What is the school to prison pipeline, and how is it affecting children across America? On this episode of Justice in America, Josie and her co-host, Derecka Purnell, talk to Judith Browne Dianis, the Executive Director of the Advancement Project. They’ll discuss the forms that the school to prison pipeline takes, and the effects it has on poor, black, and brown kids in particular. For more information please visit
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Judith Browne Dianis’ Book Recommendation
04/15/2020
Judith Browne Dianis’ Book Recommendation
Judith Browne Dianis is the Executive Director of the Advancement Project. Judith joined host Josie Duffy Rice to talk about her reading recommendations. For show notes and more information please check out .
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Episode 27: Junk Forensic Science
04/08/2020
Episode 27: Junk Forensic Science
Everyone who has ever watched a crime procedural believes that forensic science is the most reliable way to tell whether someone is guilty or not. But is that true? The reality is that a lot of forensic science is not exactly science at all. On this episode of Justice in America, Josie Duffy Rice and her guest co-host, Zak Cheney Rice, look at faulty forensic science. Radley Balko, opinion journalist at the Washington Post and author of The Cadaver and the Country Dentist, joins. For show notes and more information visit .
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Radley Balko's Book Recommendation
04/08/2020
Radley Balko's Book Recommendation
Radley Balko is an opinion journalist at the Washington Post and author of The Cadaver and the Country Dentist. Radley joined host Josie Duffy Rice to talk about his reading recommendation. For show notes and more information please check out .
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Episode 26: The Privatization of Prisons
04/01/2020
Episode 26: The Privatization of Prisons
On this episode of Justice Podcast, Josie Duffy Rice and guest co-host Donovan Ramsey look at the privatization of America’s criminal legal system. They go beyond just private prisons and look at all the ways the system has privatized corrections, including privatized probation, supervision, healthcare, and communications, and more. To discuss the issue, Bianca Tylek, Executive Director of Worth Rises, joins the show. Bianca Tylek’s Twitter handle: Worth Rises’s Twitter handle: For show notes and more information visit .
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Bianca Tylek's Book Recommendation
04/01/2020
Bianca Tylek's Book Recommendation
Bianca Tylek is the Executive Director of Worth Rises, a non-profit advocacy organization dedicated to dismantling the prison industry and ending the exploitation of those it touches. Bianca joined host Josie Duffy Rice to talk about her reading recommendations. For show notes and more information please check out .
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Episode 25: Conversation with Sherrilyn Ifill
03/25/2020
Episode 25: Conversation with Sherrilyn Ifill
On this episode of Justice in America, Josie Duffy Rice and her guest co-host, Darnell Moore, talk to Sherrilyn Ifill about policing, civil rights, the criminal justice system, and more. Ifill is the President and Director-Counsel of the NAACP Legal Defense and Educational Fund (LDF), the nation’s premier civil rights law organization. LDF was founded in 1940 by one of the most important civil rights lawyers in history, Thurgood Marshall, who later became Supreme Court justice. Ifill began her career as a Fellow at the American Civil Liberties Union, before joining the staff of the LDF as an Assistant Counsel in 1988, where she litigated voting rights cases for five years. Her 2007 book “On the Courthouse Lawn: Confronting the Legacy of Lynching in the 21st Century,” was highly acclaimed, and is credited with laying the foundation for contemporary conversations about lynching and reconciliation. Ifill is one of our heroes, and it was an honor to speak with her for this episode of Justice in America. For more information and show notes please visit
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Sherrilyn Ifill's Book Recommendations
03/25/2020
Sherrilyn Ifill's Book Recommendations
Sherrilyn Ifill is the President and Director-Counsel of the NAACP Legal Defense and Educational Fund (LDF), the nation’s premier civil rights law organization. Sherrilyn joined hosts Josie Duffy Rice and Darnell Moore to talk about her book recommendations. For show notes and more information please check out .
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Episode 24: Death Penalty
03/18/2020
Episode 24: Death Penalty
On this episode of Justice in America, Josie Duffy Rice, and guest co-host Darnell Moore, focus on the death penalty. Capital punishment remains one of the cruelest aspects of America’s criminal legal system. In America, over 2500 people are currently on death row. Last year, 19 people were executed. Josie and Darnell explore the history of the death penalty, including the short period in the 1970s where it was deemed unconstitutional, and examine its current use in America today. Joining them is guest State Attorney Aramis Ayala of the Ninth Judicial Circuit Court of Florida. State Attorney Ayala was the first black woman elected prosecutor in the state, and in 2016 made a decision to not seek the death penalty. She'll talk to Josie and Darnel about why she made that decision, and the pushback that she received after choosing not to seek the death penalty as prosecutor. For more information and show notes please visit
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State Attorney Aramis Ayala Book Recommendations
03/18/2020
State Attorney Aramis Ayala Book Recommendations
Aramis Ayala is the State Attorney for the Ninth Judicial Circuit Court of Florida. State Attorney Ayala joined Josie Duffy Rice to talk about her book recommendations. For show notes and more information please check out theappeal.org.
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Episode 23: Criminalizing Mothers
03/11/2020
Episode 23: Criminalizing Mothers
One of the most devastating collateral consequences for someone involved in the criminal justice system is the potential destruction of their family – most commonly parents losing custody of kids and children being forced into foster care. On this episode of Justice in America, Josie Duffy Rice and her guest co-host Zak Cheney-Rice look at the relationship between the criminal justice system and family court, and examine how together they can havoc on American families. They are joined by Emma Ketteringham, the Managing Director of the Bronx Defenders Family Defense Practice. For more information and show notes please visit
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Emma Ketteringham's Book Recommendation
03/11/2020
Emma Ketteringham's Book Recommendation
Emma Ketteringham is the Managing Director of the Bronx Defenders Family Defense Practice. Emma joined Josie to talk about her book recommendation. For show notes and more resources, please visit .
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Episode 22: Probation and Parole
03/04/2020
Episode 22: Probation and Parole
About 2.3 million people are incarcerated in America, but about 6.7 million people are under some form of correctional control. The difference between these two numbers is due to the 4.5 million adults under community supervision, almost twice the number of people who are incarcerated. The two most common types of community supervision? Parole and probation. On this episode of Justice In America, host Josie Duffy Rice and guest host Donovan X. Ramsey explore probation and parole – what they mean, how they work, and how they contribute to mass incarceration. They’re joined by LaTonya Tate, the Founder and Executive Director of Alabama Justice Initiative in Birmingham, Alabama. LaTonya became a parole officer after she was forced to watch her son navigate the criminal justice system. For more information and show notes please visit
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LaTonya Tate’s Book Recommendation
03/04/2020
LaTonya Tate’s Book Recommendation
LaTonya Tate is the Executive Director and Founder of Alabama Justice Initiative based in Birmingham, Alabama. LaTonya joined Josie to talk about her book recommendation. For show notes and more resources, please visit
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Alicia Garza's Book Recommendation
02/26/2020
Alicia Garza's Book Recommendation
Alicia Garza is an activist, writer, and organizer, who currently serves as Principal at Black Futures Lab. She is a co-founder of Black Lives Matter. Alicia joined host Josie Duffy Rice to talk about her book recommendation. For show notes and more resources, please visit .
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Episode 21: Police Accountability
02/26/2020
Episode 21: Police Accountability
As civilians, how do we hold the police responsible for wrongdoing? On the first episode of Season 3, Josie Duffy and co-host Darnell Moore discuss different avenues of police accountability and explain why it’s so hard for the criminal justice system to hold police accountable. They are joined by Alicia Garza, an activist, writer, and organizer, who currently serves as Principal at Black Futures Lab. Alicia is a co-founder of Black Lives Matter and has been a leader in the fight against police brutality and discriminatory policing, particularly in black communities. For more information and show notes please visit
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10 Questions Bonus: Donovan X. Ramsey
02/19/2020
10 Questions Bonus: Donovan X. Ramsey
The third season of Justice in America launches February 26. You can find it on , , , or wherever you get your podcasts. Hosted by Josie Duffy Rice, president of The Appeal, each episode of Justice in America focuses on a different topic in the criminal justice system. Through conversation, storytelling, media, and interviews, the show sheds light on how our system functions, and the ways in which it disproportionately harms poor people and people of color. This season, the show features four guest co-hosts. Let’s meet one of the hosts, Donovan X. Ramsey. For more information and to see Donovan's book recommendation please visit
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10 Questions Bonus: Zak Cheney Rice
02/19/2020
10 Questions Bonus: Zak Cheney Rice
The third season of Justice in America launches February 26. You can find it on , , , or wherever you get your podcasts. Hosted by Josie Duffy Rice, president of The Appeal, each episode of Justice in America focuses on a different topic in the criminal justice system. Through conversation, storytelling, media, and interviews, the show sheds light on how our system functions, and the ways in which it disproportionately harms poor people and people of color. This season, the show features four guest co-hosts. Let’s meet one of the hosts, Zak Cheney Rice. For more information and to see Zak's book recommendations please visit
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10 Questions Bonus: Josie Duffy Rice
02/19/2020
10 Questions Bonus: Josie Duffy Rice
The third season of Justice in America launches February 26. You can find it on , , , or wherever you get your podcasts. Hosted by Josie Duffy Rice, president of The Appeal, each episode of Justice in America focuses on a different topic in the criminal justice system. Through conversation, storytelling, media, and interviews, the show sheds light on how our system functions, and the ways in which it disproportionately harms poor people and people of color. Let’s learn some more about Josie Duffy Rice, here she is interviewed by Zak Cheney Rice. For more information and to see Josie's book recommendation please visit
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10 Questions Bonus: Derecka Purnell
02/19/2020
10 Questions Bonus: Derecka Purnell
The third season of Justice in America launches February 26. You can find it on , , , or wherever you get your podcasts. Hosted by Josie Duffy Rice, president of The Appeal, each episode of Justice in America focuses on a different topic in the criminal justice system. Through conversation, storytelling, media, and interviews, the show sheds light on how our system functions, and the ways in which it disproportionately harms poor people and people of color. This season, the show features four guest co-hosts. Let’s meet one of the hosts, Derecka Purnell. For more information and to see Derecka's book recommendations please visit
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10 Questions Bonus: Darnell Moore
02/19/2020
10 Questions Bonus: Darnell Moore
The third season of Justice in America launches February 26. You can find it on , , , or wherever you get your podcasts. Hosted by Josie Duffy Rice, president of The Appeal, each episode of Justice in America focuses on a different topic in the criminal justice system. Through conversation, storytelling, media, and interviews, the show sheds light on how our system functions, and the ways in which it disproportionately harms poor people and people of color. This season, the show features four guest co-hosts. Let’s meet one of the hosts, Darnell Moore. For more information and to see Darnell's book recommendations please visit
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Season 3 Welcome!
02/12/2020
Season 3 Welcome!
Justice in America is a podcast for everyone interested in criminal justice reform— from those new to the system to experts who want to know more. Each episode we cover a new criminal justice issue. We explain how it works and look at its impact on people, particularly poor people and people of color. We’ll also interview activists, practitioners, experts, journalists, organizers, and others, to learn. By the end of the episode, you’ll walk away with a better understanding of what drives mass incarceration and what can fix it. Season 3, starts Feb 26, 2020. We'll discuss everything from police accountability, to forensic science, to probation and parole, and we’ll talk to leaders in this field, including those that have been directly impacted. Host: Josie Duffy Rice, writer, lawyer, and President of The Appeal, a news outlet that produces original journalism about the criminal justice system. Guest co-hosts: Darnell Moore, author of "No Ashes in the Fire", a critically acclaimed memoir of growing up black and queer in New Jersey. Donovan X. Ramsey, journalist and the author of "When Crack Was King", a forthcoming history of the crack epidemic. Derecka Purnell, organizer, writer, lawyer, and the Deputy Director of the Spirit of Justice Center. Zak Cheney Rice, journalist at New York Magazine who covers race and politics.
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Episode 20: Mariame Kaba and Prison Abolition
03/20/2019
Episode 20: Mariame Kaba and Prison Abolition
On the last episode of Season 2, Josie and Clint discuss prison abolition with Mariame Kaba, one of the leading activists and organizers in the fight against America’s criminal legal system and a contributing editor for The Appeal. Mariame discusses her own journey into this work, provides perspective on the leaders in this space, and helps us reimagine what the future of this system could look like. Mariame’s way of thinking about this system, and the vision of possibilities she provides, is an excellent send-off to our second season. For links to resources visit
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Episode 19: Restorative Justice
03/13/2019
Episode 19: Restorative Justice
On this episode, we talk about an alternative to the traditional criminal adversarial process: restorative justice. Restorative justice focuses on repairing the harm caused by wrongdoing, and values reconciliation, community-involvement, and accountability over punishment and retribution. We discuss the benefits, limitations, and potential of restorative justice. We also talk to Sonya Shah, an associate professor at the California Institute of Integral Studies and a renowned restorative justice facilitator, trainer, and expert. Sonya is a survivor of child sexual abuse, and has worked extensively with survivors of sexual abuse and people who have committed sexual harm. In 2016 she founded The Ahimsa Collective, which offers non-punitive approaches to addressing and healing harm through the lenses of restorative and transformative justice. This episode also features audio from Danielle Sered, Executive Director of Common Justice. For links to resources visit
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