Men of Steel
From a Certain Point of View, Case Aiken and JMike Folson discuss Superman in all of his incarnations and homages. For people who love the Man of Steel and want to think critically about what the character represents.
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Episode 142 - The Incredibles with Doug Lief
04/11/2025
Episode 142 - The Incredibles with Doug Lief
Case and Jmike are joined by Doug Lief (from the Nostalgium Arcanum podcast) to talk about a family that's pretty super, The Incredibles! Overview In Podcast episode 142 of Men of Steel, hosts Case Aiken and Jmike Folson, alongside guest Doug Lief, delve into a comprehensive analysis of Disney's The Incredibles through the lens of Superman fandom. They explore the film's connections to other superhero media, notably its references to 60s Batman and Fleischer Superman, while debating the film's overall tone, which Case describes as having an 'angry' directorial voice. The discussion emphasizes Mr. Incredible as a Superman analog, revealing how his secret identity as Bob Parr reflects an average man grappling with superhero responsibilities amid family dynamics. The team draws parallels between the family members' powers and their roles, likening the villain Syndrome to a failed fan archetype obsessed with eliminating exceptionalism. Additionally, they analyze the film's aging animation, contextualize its place in the superhero genre before the rise of the MCU, and celebrate its blend of action and relatable family themes. The episode culminates in discussing the film's unresolved questions about the necessity of superheroes in society, concluding that it adeptly balances the extraordinary with the everyday. Notes ️ Introduction and Context (01:12 - 15:47) Case Aiken and Jmike Folson host the Men of Steel podcast with guest Doug Lief The discussion focuses on Disney's The Incredibles (2004) from a Superman fan perspective Doug mentions the movie's connections to Watchmen and other superhero media The hosts establish that the film is a love letter to superheroes with influences from 60s Batman, James Bond, and Fleischer Superman Case acknowledges he likes but doesn't love the movie, finding it has an 'angry' directorial voice ️ Mr. Incredible as Superman Analog (15:47 - 24:52) The group analyzes Mr. Incredible (Bob Parr) as a Superman analog Bob Parr's name means 'average' - perfect for a secret identity His job at an insurance company creates dramatic irony (helping after harm vs. preventing it) The hosts discuss Mr. Incredible's durability, strength, and physical capabilities The film explores the tension between superhero responsibility and family obligations The 'Bob Parr' identity has real value to him beyond just being a disguise Family Dynamics and Powers (24:52 - 39:20) The Incredibles compared to Fantastic Four but with a nuclear family structure Each family member's powers serve as metaphors for their roles: Elastigirl must 'bend over backwards' for her family Violet wants to be invisible/blend in as a teenager Dash wants to show off and stand out with his speed Holly Hunter praised for her performance as Elastigirl The married couple dynamic shows mature flirtation and partnership Sarah Vowell's performance as Violet highlighted despite not being a professional actress Syndrome as Villain (39:20 - 54:00) Syndrome analyzed as Jimmy Olsen gone evil or fan-turned-Lex Luthor His character represents fandom and mediocrity wanting to eliminate specialness Syndrome observes and counters heroes' weaknesses but fails to examine his own His fatal flaw is wearing a cape, which Edna Mode had warned against The group discusses connections to Alan Moore's works (Watchmen and Captain Britain) Syndrome's robot compared to the squid from Watchmen's ending Brad Bird reportedly denies Watchmen influence despite many parallels Jack-Jack and Supporting Characters (54:00 - 01:03:00) Jack-Jack has godlike powers (17 documented in the sequel) Compared to Franklin Richards from Fantastic Four Jack-Jack helps defeat Syndrome at the end of the film Edna Mode (voiced by Brad Bird) praised as an excellent character Her role as the Q-like gadget designer who incorporates fashion The group discusses superhero costume design elements Frozone and his 'Where's my super suit?' scene mentioned Animation and Film Context (01:03:00 - 01:16:40) The film's animation shows its age (from 2004) but holds up well due to stylization Technical limitations discussed (water effects, foliage, crowds) The hosts note the film predates the MCU (2008) and Nolan's Batman (2005) The Incredibles came at a transition point for superhero cinema The movie successfully balances superhero action with relatable family dynamics Character designs discussed (Mr. Incredible's face based on a Roman helmet) Final Battle and Themes (01:16:40 - 01:26:47) The Omnidroid battle showcases the family working together effectively Team power moves highlight each character's abilities and their coordination The question of 'do we need superheroes?' explored through the final battle Dash's athletic participation at the end (coming in second) compared to Superman hiding his abilities The film doesn't fully resolve questions about exceptional people's place in society The ending shows balance between superhero and ordinary life is beneficial Conclusions and Wrap-Up (01:26:47 - 01:38:04) The Underminer appearance sets up the sequel and references Mole Man from Fantastic Four The hosts appreciate the film's commentary on superhero tropes ('you caught me monologuing') The movie works well as both a superhero film and a family story Discussion about how the film has aged and its historical context in superhero cinema Podcast information and social media contacts shared Recommendation for Books that Burn podcast from the Certain POV network
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Episode 141 - Supreme: The Story of the Year with Micah McCaw
04/02/2025
Episode 141 - Supreme: The Story of the Year with Micah McCaw
Case and Jmike are joined by Micah McCaw to assess the Symbolism Supreme in Alan Moore's Supreme Story of the Year. Overview In episode 141 of the Men of Steel podcast, hosts Case Aiken and Jmike Folson, alongside guest Micah McCaw, delve into Alan Moore's influential 12-issue run on Supreme, titled "Supreme: The Story of the Year." They highlight the comic's groundbreaking nature upon its release in the mid-90s, reimagining Supreme—a character initially created by Rob Liefeld and akin to Superman—by incorporating innovative storytelling techniques, such as in-universe “revisions” of the character and comments on comic book history. The discussion spans various aspects of the series, including its artistic evolution through different illustrators and the provocative themes surrounding superhero relationships and villains. Notably, the podcast emphasizes Moore’s ability to blend humor with meta-narrative elements while maintaining continuity amidst complex plotlines, ultimately positioning Supreme as a celebrated reconstruction of traditional superhero narratives. As the hosts reflect on its significance, they recommend further explorations of Moore’s work, ensuring listeners are left with a comprehensive appreciation for the series and its impact on the comic book landscape. Notes Introduction to Supreme (00:50 - 11:43) Case Aiken and Jmike Folson host the Men of Steel podcast with guest Micah McCaw The episode discusses Alan Moore's 12-issue run on Supreme, also known as 'Supreme: The Story of the Year' The comic was published in 1995-1996 and was considered groundbreaking at the time Supreme is described as a thinly veiled Superman analog with similar powers and characteristics The hosts discuss how the book remained cutting edge for 20 years but now feels more commonplace ️ History of Supreme (11:43 - 25:55) Supreme was originally created by Rob Liefeld as part of Image Comics' launch Before Alan Moore, Supreme was an amoral, extremely powerful character (a Superman analog) Moore took over with issue #41 and completely reimagined the character The comic features regular flashbacks to different eras of comics, parodying Superman's timeline The art style shifts between contemporary and classic/retro depending on the time period shown Art and Creative Teams (25:55 - 35:04) Joe Bennett was the main artist, who would later work on Immortal Hulk Rick Veitch created the flashback sequences with distinct period-appropriate art styles Chris Sprouse joins as artist later in the run (only one issue in this collection) Alex Ross created promotional art and cover designs for Supreme The hosts note that the art quality is inconsistent throughout the series The Revision Concept (35:04 - 45:50) The comic introduces 'revisions' - an in-universe explanation for continuity changes Supreme visits the 'Supremacy' where all previous versions of himself exist after being revised out The concept explains why comic characters change over time The hosts discuss the meta-narrative of comics existing within a comics universe Ethan Crane (Supreme's alter ego) works as a comic artist in his civilian identity Supreme's Universe (45:50 - 57:54) The Citadel Supreme is Supreme's Fortress of Solitude equivalent The Allied Supremes of America is the Justice Society/Justice League analog Supreme has his own version of supporting characters like Lois Lane (Diana Dane) The book features extensive flashbacks to previous eras of comics history Issue #44 features EC Comics-style horror hosts challenging superheroes, explaining why heroes fell out of favor Supernatural Elements (57:54 - 01:06:50) Supreme's origin involves exposure to a radioactive meteor (Supremium) The League of Infinity includes heroes from throughout time periods including Achilles, Bill Hickok, and Aladdin The book includes various dimensions including the Hell of Mirrors and Amolinth (a photo world) The creative use of Supreme's powers includes his 'consciousness expanding' rather than using telescopic vision Goral the Living Galaxy serves as a Galactus-type cosmic entity Relationships and Romance (01:06:50 - 01:17:03) Issue #50 explores Supreme's dating life and potential relationships Three scenarios show why relationships don't work for superheroes: domestication, exploitation, or conflict Diana Dane is positioned as Supreme's potential love interest The issue offers meta-commentary on why superheroes rarely maintain stable relationships Chris Sprouse's art in this issue is praised as superior to earlier issues Villains and Antagonists (01:17:03 - 01:26:08) Darius Dax is Supreme's Lex Luthor equivalent and main antagonist The comic features various counterparts to Superman's rogues gallery Shadow Supreme serves as a negative version of the hero Optilux is a living light being with significant powers The heroes face challenges they can't simply punch their way through ⏳ Time Loop Concept (01:26:08 - 01:36:03) The comic features a time loop where Darius Dax becomes the meteor that gives Supreme his powers Supreme sees his past self, creating a stable time loop The hosts note that while time loops are common now, this was innovative in the mid-90s The League of Infinity adds to the time travel elements The hosts discuss how Moore keeps continuity coherent despite complex timeline issues Meta-Commentary (01:36:04 - 01:45:32) The comic constantly references and comments on comics history Characters discuss the structure of comic books while living in one The book reconstructs superhero tropes rather than deconstructing them (unlike Watchmen) Alan Moore is described as being on an 'apology tour' for how Watchmen changed comics The series acknowledges and pokes fun at comic book conventions while embracing them Final Plot Developments (01:45:32 - 01:54:22) Judy Jordan and her 'granddaughter' Hilda visit Citadel Supreme The drawing created by Hilda is revealed to be part of Darius Dax's plan Dax transfers his consciousness into Judy's body through nano-dust Supreme is trapped in the Hell of Mirrors as Dax takes control of the Citadel The plot twist reveals the 'child's drawing' had been a Chekhov's gun throughout the series Conclusion and Reflections (01:54:22 - 02:11:44) The hosts discuss the significance of Supreme in comics history The comic is positioned as a reconstruction of Superman after the deconstruction era The series is praised for its humor, creativity, and meta-approach to comics The hosts recommend other Alan Moore works like Tom Strong The podcast ends with contact information for the hosts and guest Micah McCaw
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Episode 140 - The Shadow Meets Superman in “The Searing Silhouette” by P. Case Aiken III
03/12/2025
Episode 140 - The Shadow Meets Superman in “The Searing Silhouette” by P. Case Aiken III
Years ago, Case wrote a radio script that crossed over Superman with The Shadow. Now, he's gathered a host of actors to read it with full orchestration and foley! Overview In the Creative Collaboration and Script Reading meeting titled "The Shadow Meets Superman in The Searing Silhouette," hosted by Case Aiken and Jmike Folson, participants including Rachel Quirky Schenk, Geoff Moonen, Olivia Gilliatt, Ben Goldsmith, Peter Coleman, and Sarah Moonen engaged in a collaborative reading of the script. The meeting began with introductions and role assignments, followed by a two-part reading that introduced the characters of The Shadow and Superman, set against the backdrop of a major metropolitan law firm and a kidnapping plot. The discussion segment allowed participants to share feedback on the script, explore its historical context, and draw comparisons with other media crossovers. Additionally, tangential discussions covered related topics, such as pinball machines and potential sequels. The meeting concluded with a wrap-up where participants exchanged final thoughts and social media information, and Case Aiken outlined the action items, including editing the script for sound effects and encouraging ongoing conversations in a dedicated Discord server. Notes Introduction and Script Reading (00:00 - 09:24) Case Aiken introduces the Men of Steel podcast Participants introduced: Rachel Quirky Schenk, Geoff Moonen, Olivia Gilliatt, Ben Goldsmith, Peter Coleman, Sarah Moonen Jmike Folson as co-host Script Reading Part 1 (09:24 - 18:08) Reading of 'The Shadow meets Superman in the searing silhouette' script begins Introduction of characters: Lamont Cranston (The Shadow), Margo Lane Setting established: Major metropolitan law firm Kidnapping plot introduced Script Reading Part 2 (18:08 - 28:35) Superman's introduction in the script Crossover between The Shadow and Superman storylines Investigation of the kidnapping case Interaction between Clark Kent and Margo Lane ️ Discussion and Feedback (28:35 - 40:33) Participants share thoughts on the script reading Case Aiken explains script background and influences Discussion of radio show era and character portrayals Comparison to other media crossovers Tangential Discussions (40:33 - 49:08) Conversation about pinball machines related to The Shadow Discussion about potential sequels or extensions of the script Participants share personal experiences and connections to the material Wrap-up and Social Media (49:08 - 58:48) Final thoughts from participants Sharing of social media handles and upcoming projects Case Aiken provides contact information and podcast details Discussion of Discord server for further conversations
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Episode 139 - Planetary with Jesse Galdston
02/12/2025
Episode 139 - Planetary with Jesse Galdston
Case and Jmike are joined by Jesse Galdston to excavate the deepest secrets of the Wildstorm Universe in the landmark series, Planetary. Overview In this episode of the podcast, the hosts delve into "Planetary," a groundbreaking comic series from the late 90s to early 2000s, paying tribute to its co-creator John Cassaday, who recently passed away. The discussion covers the series' unique approach to superhero narratives, its complex characters—including Elijah Snow and the Drummer—and its exploration of themes such as lost potential, the grotesque realities of heroism, and the subversion of classic superhero tropes. The hosts examine the artistic style of Cassaday, the series' critical commentary on comic book history, and its connections to the Wildstorm universe, as well as its influence on subsequent works and the ethical implications presented in crossover events like "Planetary JLA: Terra Occulta." J Mike, a newcomer to the series, is encouraged to explore more, while listeners are invited to join the Discord community for further discussions. Notes Introduction to Planetary (00:00 - 10:07) Discussing Planetary, a comic series from late 90s/early 2000s Planetary is a play on Fantastic Four setup, exploring comics, sci-fi, and fantasy genres John Cassaday, co-creator of Planetary, recently passed away Planetary shaped thinking about Superman analogs J Mike had not read Planetary before this discussion Planetary Concept and Characters (10:07 - 20:22) Planetary is about recruiting a team of special people The team looks for objects of scientific nature The Drummer's powers: metahumanly connected to the Internet and all kinds of code The Four: evil version of the Fantastic Four, main antagonists of the series Elijah Snow: the fourth man, has temperature subtraction powers Planetary's World and Themes (20:22 - 30:28) Planetary explores the Wildstorm universe The series deals with the concept of century babies (born on January 1st) Explores the idea of lost potential in the world Discusses the grotesque reality of superhero concepts The series tagline: "It's a strange world. Let's keep it that way." Art and Storytelling in Planetary (30:28 - 42:08) John Cassaday's art style embraces modern technology Each issue explores a different sci-fi concept or genre The series uses repeated patterns and motifs Planetary questions how superheroes could make the world better The series balances internal conversation with visceral enjoyment of strange ideas Superman and Batman Analogs (42:08 - 51:37) Discussion of Superman analog in Issue 10 Exploration of the Green Lantern concept in Planetary Wonder Woman analog in the series Batman's role in Planetary/Batman crossover Comparison of Planetary's treatment of superheroes to other works Planetary JLA Crossover (51:38 - 01:02:54) Discussion of Planetary JLA: Terra Occulta Planetary characters as antagonists in this story Exploration of alternate versions of DC characters Comparison to Tower of Babel storyline Discussion of the ethical implications of the story Themes and Concepts in Planetary (01:02:54 - 01:12:10) Exploration of lost potential in superhero narratives Discussion of the nature of heroism and corruption Comparison of Planetary to other Wildstorm titles Exploration of the series' treatment of classic superhero tropes Discussion of the series' commentary on comic book history Impact and Legacy of Planetary (01:12:11 - 01:21:27) Reflection on Planetary's place in comic book history Discussion of John Cassaday's artistic contributions Comparison of Planetary to other comic series of its era Exploration of Planetary's influence on later works Discussion of the series' treatment of superhero archetypes Wildstorm Universe and Conclusion (01:21:28 - 01:30:52) Discussion of Wildstorm as a publication studio Comparison of Wildstorm to other comic universes Reflection on the integration of Wildstorm into DC Final thoughts on Planetary and its themes Wrap-up and podcast information Action items J Mike Read the rest of the Planetary series to gain a deeper understanding of its themes and characters (01:23:06) Listeners Join the Discord server for ongoing discussions about Planetary and related topics (01:29:08) Follow the hosts on social media platforms to stay updated on future episodes and discussions (01:28:31)
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Episode 138 - The Superman / Flash Races with Austin Funk
01/29/2025
Episode 138 - The Superman / Flash Races with Austin Funk
Few questions inspire as much debate as "Who is faster, the Flash or Superman?" Case and Jmike are joined by Austin Funk, from the Rolling with Difficulty podcast ( , to take a closer look at the photo finish that is the various races between Superman and the Flash. Overview The Discussion/Analysis meeting centered around the iconic races between Superman and The Flash, covering their historical significance in comics from the first race in Superman 199 to contemporary depictions in animated series and live-action adaptations. Key topics included the power dynamics and character developments through different comic eras, particularly focusing on Wally West’s evolution as The Flash, and the emotional depth apparent in races involving the Flash family. The meeting also highlighted artistic challenges in illustrating super-speed and discussed the scientific and philosophical themes these races evoke, such as the concept of the Speed Force. Additionally, memorable race narratives were examined for their impact and legacy within the DC universe, followed by an exploration of fan reception and the cultural relevance of these iconic rivalries. Overall, the meeting provided a comprehensive look at the Superman vs. Flash dynamic, its evolution over time, and its significance in the broader superhero genre. Notes ♂️ Introduction to Superman vs Flash Races (00:00 - 12:48) Discussed various races between Superman and The Flash in comics Mentioned the first race in Superman 199, written by Jim Shooter Highlighted the time-honored tradition of these races in DC Comics Noted that these races serve as a snapshot of Superman and comics at different times ♂️ Early Races and Their Significance (12:48 - 22:45) Explored the first race in Superman 199 and its details Discussed the science explanations and power differences between Superman and Flash Highlighted the gambling subplot in the first race Mentioned the introduction of different types of Kryptonite Post-Crisis Races and Character Development (22:46 - 31:56) Discussed the post-Crisis races, focusing on Wally West as The Flash Explored the power level changes and character development in this era Mentioned the involvement of Mr. Mxyzptlk in one of the races Discussed the introduction of Crimson Kryptonite ⚡ Flash Family and Legacy (31:56 - 42:03) Explored races involving different members of the Flash family Discussed the legacy aspect of The Flash character Mentioned races involving Jay Garrick and Superman Highlighted the emotional depth in some of these stories Superman's Legacy and Comparisons (42:03 - 50:55) Discussed Superman's legacy compared to The Flash's Explored the similarities and differences between Superman and Flash as characters Mentioned the concept of legacy in Superman's story Discussed the impact of Barry Allen's return as The Flash Races in Other Media (50:55 - 01:00:58) Explored races between Superman and Flash in animated series and live-action shows Discussed the challenges of depicting super-speed in various media Mentioned specific episodes from Superman: The Animated Series and Smallville Highlighted the importance of these races in establishing shared universes Artistic Challenges and Interpretations (01:00:58 - 01:09:30) Discussed the difficulties of illustrating races in comic books Mentioned various artists' approaches to depicting super-speed Explored the evolution of how races are depicted in comics over time Highlighted standout artistic interpretations of Superman vs Flash races Scientific and Philosophical Aspects (01:09:30 - 01:18:31) Discussed the scientific explanations (or lack thereof) for super-speed in comics Explored the concept of the Speed Force and its implications Mentioned the philosophical questions raised by characters with limitless abilities Discussed how these races reflect broader themes in superhero comics Best Race Stories and Their Impact (01:18:31 - 01:27:36) Highlighted some of the most memorable Superman vs Flash races Discussed the story "Up in the Sky" as a standout race narrative Explored the impact of these races on the larger DC universe Mentioned how these races often serve as milestones in comic book storytelling Evolution of the Superman vs Flash Dynamic (01:27:36 - 01:36:25) Discussed how the relationship between Superman and Flash has evolved over time Explored the changing power dynamics between the characters Mentioned how these races reflect broader changes in comic book storytelling Discussed the impact of various comic book eras on the Superman vs Flash dynamic Cultural Impact and Fan Reception (01:36:25 - 01:46:44) Explored the cultural significance of Superman vs Flash races Discussed fan reactions and debates surrounding these races Mentioned how these races have become a staple of DC Comics lore Explored the impact of these races on the broader superhero genre Character Analysis and Thematic Exploration (01:46:44 - 01:55:29) Conducted deeper analysis of Superman and Flash as characters Explored recurring themes in Superman vs Flash race stories Discussed how these races highlight core aspects of each character Mentioned the broader implications of these races for superhero storytelling
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Episode 137 - DC Super Powers with Rick Lee James
12/27/2024
Episode 137 - DC Super Powers with Rick Lee James
There's nothing more important to developing creativity than play, so let's look at the toys that featured the Man of Steel. In particular, back in thew 80s, DC put out a line that distilled the raw power of their characters into figures that punched and kicked without the need for buttons or levers! That's right, Case and Jmike are joined by guest Rick Lee James to discuss the venerable DC Super Powers line! Overview In the latest episode of the podcast, hosts Case Aiken and JMike Folson welcome guest Rick Lee James for an engaging discussion about the impact of action figures on childhood perceptions of superheroes, particularly focusing on toys from the Super powers line of the late 70s and early 80s. The episode delves into the cultural influence of various superhero toy lines, including Power Rangers and Transformers, while examining the design and action features of iconic vehicles like the Batmobile and Supermobile. The hosts explore the evolution of toy designs, the crossover between toys and media tie-ins, and how characters like Cyborg emerged from the Super powers cartoon. Rick shares insights into his music career and current role as a hospital chaplain, along with social media details for fans. The meeting concludes with plans for future episodes and an action item to research additional Superpowers memorabilia. Notes Introduction and Toy Discussion(00:00 - 10:30) ● Hosts Case Aiken and J. Mike Fson introduce the podcast and guest Rick Lee James ● Discussion about the importance of action figures in shaping childhood perceptions of superheroes ● Rick shares his experience with Super powers toys from the late 70s/early 80s ● Toys as a source of creativity and early fan fiction for children ● Mention of He-Man's origin from unused Conan the Barbarian toy molds Superhero Toy Lines and Media Influence(10:30 - 19:32) ● Discussion of Power Rangers, Transformers, and Superman merchandise ● Death and Return of Superman toy line from early 90s mentioned ● Batman animated series influence on toy production ● Superpowers toy line features discussed, including action features for each character ● Detailed list of Super powers characters and their action features Toy Design and Cultural Impact(19:32 - 31:12) ● Comparison between original Superpowers line and new McFarlane toys ● Discussion of vehicles in both toy lines, including Supermobile and Batmobile ● Mention of Jose Louis Garcia Lopez's influence on toy design ● Impact of Super powers cartoon on future DC storylines, including Cyborg's inclusion in Justice League ● Robot Chicken's use of Super powers toys in their sketches McFarlane Toys and Vehicle Features(31:14 - 39:21) ● Detailed discussion of McFarlane's new Super powers toy line ● Focus on vehicle toys having action features while figures do not ● Comparison of original and new Supermobile, Batmobile, and Wonder Woman's Invisible Jet ● Discussion of comic accuracy in new toy designs Superpowers Media Tie-ins(39:21 - 46:52) ● VHS tapes featuring Superman, Aquaman, Batman, and Superboy mentioned ● Discussion of Superboy's prevalence in media despite lack of dedicated toy ● Mention of Justice League of America Skyscraper Caper board game ● Ubiquity of Superpowers merchandise in the 1980s Wrap-up and Guest Information(46:52 - 57:40) ● Rick shares his Superman Twitter account and music career ● Discussion of Rick's current work as a hospital chaplain ● Hosts share their contact information and upcoming content ● Mention of YouTube channel and Dungeons & Dragons videos ● Closing remarks and podcast information
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Episode 136 - Superman in Zero Hour with Grant Richter
11/19/2024
Episode 136 - Superman in Zero Hour with Grant Richter
Can the Man of Steel weather a Crisis in Time? Grant Richter from the Truth, Justice, and Hope podcast joins Case and Jmike to look at Superman's tie ins with Zero Hour! Overview In episode 136 of the podcast, titled "Superman in Zero Hour," hosts engage in a comprehensive discussion with guest Grant Richter about the influential 1994 DC Comics event, Zero Hour. The conversation begins with an introduction to the event and its significance for key characters like Superman and the Legion of Superheroes, before delving into the context of Superman comics at that time, including the 'triangle era' and the introduction of new characters like Superboy. Key segments explore Zero Hour’s impact on character continuity, the complexities of time travel within the story, and specific tie-in issues featuring characters such as Superboy and Batman. The episode also covers the introduction of characters like Alpha Centurion and the lasting effects of Zero Hour on DC’s continuity, followed by an evaluation of the event's strengths and weaknesses. The hosts conclude with final thoughts, social media promotions, and listener engagement opportunities through a Discord community. Notes Introduction to Zero Hour (00:00 - 10:02) Podcast hosts introduce themselves and guest Grant Richter Discuss Zero Hour, a DC Comics event from 1994 Highlight the significance of Zero Hour for Superman and Legion of Superheroes Context of Zero Hour (10:02 - 18:31) Explain the state of Superman comics in 1994 Discuss the 'triangle era' of Superman comics Mention the introduction of new characters like Superboy and Steel Zero Hour's Impact on Characters (18:31 - 28:29) Detail the effects of Zero Hour on Legion of Superheroes continuity Discuss the introduction of Valor (Mon-El) as a replacement for Superboy Explain the concept of SW6 Legion and time duplicates ️ Time Shenanigans in Zero Hour (28:29 - 40:04) Describe the multiple versions of characters appearing due to time distortions Discuss the involvement of the Time Trapper and Cosmic Boy Explain the pocket universe Superboy's role in the event ♂️ Superboy Tie-In Issue (40:04 - 50:06) Analyze the Superboy Zero Hour tie-in issue Praise Tom Grummett's artwork Discuss the interaction between 90s Superboy and pre-Crisis Superboy Batman's Role in Zero Hour (50:06 - 59:41) Examine the Man of Steel tie-in issue featuring multiple Batmen Praise Jon Bogdanove's artistic versatility in depicting different Batman styles Discuss the appearance of Jor-El and Lara in the story Alpha Centurion and Alternate Realities (59:41 - 01:08:39) Introduce the character of Alpha Centurion Discuss the alternate reality where Alpha Centurion replaces Superman Analyze the design and concept of Alpha Centurion ⏳ Time Distortions and Character Interactions (01:08:39 - 01:17:16) Examine the Action Comics tie-in featuring time distortions Discuss the appearance of young Ma and Pa Kent Analyze the 1940s gangster story elements in the issue Zero Hour's Overall Impact (01:17:16 - 01:26:15) Discuss the lasting effects of Zero Hour on DC continuity Analyze the introduction of characters like Kyle Rayner and Jack Knight Debate the merits of the event's approach to continuity changes Villains and Consequences (01:26:16 - 01:35:13) Discuss the roles of Extant and Parallax as villains in Zero Hour Analyze the portrayal of Hal Jordan as Parallax Examine the consequences for the Justice Society of America Evaluating Zero Hour (01:35:13 - 01:44:39) Discuss the strengths and weaknesses of Zero Hour as an event Analyze its impact on different DC franchises Compare it to other comic book events ️ Wrapping Up and Podcast Information (01:44:40 - 01:55:18) Hosts and guest share final thoughts on Zero Hour Provide information on where to find their podcasts and social media Promote other podcast projects and Discord community Listeners Check out Grant's podcast and Twitter for more Superman content (51:06) Join the CPOV Discord server for more Superman discussions (53:33)
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Episode 135 - Batman / Superman: World's Finest # 1-6 with Jim Fetters
11/03/2024
Episode 135 - Batman / Superman: World's Finest # 1-6 with Jim Fetters
There are few pairings that can rival the acclaim of Batman and Superman, but the teaming of Mark Waid with Dan Mora may be a solid challenger! Jim Fetters is back to chat with Case and Jmike about the first arc in DC's Batman / Superman: World's Finest. Overview: ● In episode 134 of the Podcast Discussion meeting, hosts Casey Aiken and Jmike Folson, joined by guest Jim Fetters, delve into the intricacies of the "World's Finest" comic series, focusing on the first arc encompassing issues 1-6. They commend the creative efforts of Mark Waid and Dan Mora, highlighting the series' blend of Silver Age charm and contemporary storytelling. Key discussions include the engaging character dynamics between Robin and Supergirl, the introduction of the villain Devil Neza, and the seamless integration of time travel elements. Mora's dynamic art style receives particular praise, alongside Waid's effective narrative techniques, such as flashbacks and emotional portrayals of iconic characters. The hosts celebrate the comic's positive tone, contrasting it with darker narratives in recent years, and recommend "World's Finest" as a standout title from DC's current lineup. The meeting concludes with Jim Fetters sharing details about his work and the hosts providing podcast information for listeners. Notes: ● ##### World's Finest Comic Discussion (00:00 - 11:36). Podcast hosts Casey Aiken and J. Mike Falsen discuss World's Finest comic. Guest Jim Fetters joins to talk about the first arc (issues 1-6). Mark Waid and Dan Mora praised for their work on the series. Comic set in an unspecified past with Silver Age elements. Dick Grayson's Robin highlighted as a standout character. Supergirl and Robin's awkward relationship introduced ● ##### Character Dynamics and Story Elements (11:36 - 22:43). Devil Nezha introduced as the main villain. Doom Patrol incorporated into the story. Time travel elements discussed, including Supergirl's casual ability to fly through time. Batman and Superman's friendship portrayed effectively. Dan Mora's art style compared to Norm Breyfogle's work ● ##### Art and Storytelling Techniques (22:43 - 31:53). Dan Mora's art praised for its effectiveness and dynamic style. Mark Waid's storytelling techniques highlighted, including use of flashbacks. General Immortus character moment discussed. Batman-Superman fusion scene praised ● ##### Story Structure and Character Development (31:54 - 41:22). Cliffhangers at the end of issues noted as effective. Batman's emotional portrayal discussed. Superman depicted as competent, capable, and compassionate. Book praised for its positive tone compared to darker recent comics ● ##### Overall Praise and Recommendations (41:22 - 53:03). World's Finest recommended as one of DC's best current titles. Hosts and guest express enthusiasm for continuing to read the series. Jim Fetters shares where to find his work online. Podcast information and social media details shared
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Episode 134 - Superman: Secret Origin with Alex McConnell
10/17/2024
Episode 134 - Superman: Secret Origin with Alex McConnell
It’s time to look at what just might be technically the current origin of Superman, Geoff Johns and Gary Frank’s Secret Origin miniseries! Alex McConnell joins Case and Jmike to look at this retro reboot of the Man of Tomorrow’s earliest adventures! Find Alex: ADMcConnell.com Overview In the latest episode of the podcast, the hosts delve into the intricate world of Superman through a detailed discussion of the "Secret Origins" comic, featuring a guest expert, Alex McConnell. They explore the nuances of Superman's character evolution, particularly how Geoff Johns tends to revert heroes to their classic Silver and Bronze Age personas, and they critically examine Gary Frank’s artistic style. The hosts debate various iterations of Superman's origin stories, alongside the significance of his relationships with characters like Lana Lang and Lois Lane. They also analyze the portrayals of villains such as Lex Luthor and Metallo, emphasizing the impact of Metropolis' development and the role of media as embodied by the Daily Planet. Additionally, they touch upon themes of continuity, the shifting canon within DC Comics, and the story's broader cultural implications, including discussions on media ethics and public perception. Ultimately, the episode offers profound insights into the entwined relationships and symbolism within Superman's narrative and its portrayal of superhero culture. Notes Superman Origins Discussion (00:00 - 10:25) Discussing Superman's Secret Origins comic Geoff Johns' tendency to revert characters to Silver/Bronze Age versions Comparison of Gary Frank's art style over time Introduction of guest Alex McConnell Comic Book History and Context (10:25 - 22:50) Discussion of Legion of Superheroes storylines and continuity Comparison of different Superman origin stories Debate on bringing back classic elements vs. new interpretations Analysis of post-crisis Superman and its impact Art and Character Design (22:50 - 33:25) Critique of Gary Frank's art style in Secret Origins Discussion of Clark Kent's personality and relationships Analysis of Lex Luthor's character development Comparison to other Superman media adaptations ♀️ Character Relationships and Development (33:25 - 43:29) Exploration of Clark's relationships with Lana Lang and Lois Lane Discussion of Superman's powers and their manifestation Analysis of the Kent family dynamics Debate on the portrayal of Metropolis and its citizens Villains and Supporting Characters (43:29 - 53:25) Introduction and analysis of Rudy Jones/Parasite Discussion of John Corbin/Metallo's origin Exploration of Lex Luthor's role in Metropolis Analysis of military and government involvement in the story Metropolis and World-Building (53:25 - 01:05:00) Discussion of Metropolis' portrayal before and after Superman's arrival Analysis of Lex Luthor's influence on the city Exploration of the Daily Planet's role in the story Debate on the military's portrayal and xenophobia themes Action Sequences and Power Usage (01:05:00 - 01:15:07) Analysis of Superman's fight with Metallo Discussion of creative power usage in combat Exploration of kryptonite's effects and portrayal Debate on the pacing and timeline of events in the story Media and Public Perception (01:15:07 - 01:24:21) Discussion of the Daily Planet's role in shaping public opinion Analysis of Lois Lane's character and journalism style Exploration of Superman's impact on Metropolis culture Debate on the story's portrayal of media ethics and responsibility Continuity and Canon Discussion (01:24:21 - 01:33:16) Analysis of Secret Origins' place in Superman canon Discussion of DC Comics' reboots and timeline changes Comparison to other Superman origin stories and adaptations Final thoughts on the comic's strengths and weaknesses
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Episode 133 - The Dark Knight Returns with Duke!
10/04/2024
Episode 133 - The Dark Knight Returns with Duke!
What is this? A podcast or an operating table? Duke is back to join Case and Jmike into the legendary book, The Dark Knight Returns… from the perspective of Superman fans. Meeting summary: ● In the recent Podcast Recording meeting titled "The Dark Knight Returns," the hosts engaged in a comprehensive discussion about the iconic comic "The Dark Knight Returns." Starting with episode art options, they settled on a dynamic design featuring Superman above Batman. The conversation delved into various facets of the comic, analyzing its commentary on 1980s society, politics, and character portrayals, particularly of Batman, Superman, and new characters like Carrie Kelly. They highlighted themes such as Batman's psychological struggles post-retirement, the intense Batman vs. Superman conflict, and the significance of media influence within the story. The meeting concluded with reflections on the comic's legacy and recommendations for listeners to explore more content from the podcast network. Notes: ● 🦸 Dark Knight Returns Discussion (00:00 - 11:48) ● Discussed episode art options for the podcast ● Decided on J Mike's suggestion of Superman floating above Batman ● Introduced the topic of 'The Dark Knight Returns' comic ● Highlighted Frank Miller's storytelling techniques and panel layouts ● Discussed the comic's portrayal of Batman and its influence on the character ● 📚 Comic Analysis and Context (11:48 - 21:32) ● Examined the comic's representation of 1980s society and politics ● Discussed the portrayal of various characters, including Superman, Lana Lang, and Jimmy Olsen ● Analyzed the comic's themes and its critique of Reagan-era politics ● Highlighted the comic's dense storytelling and efficient use of panels ● 🦇 Batman's Return and Character Development (21:32 - 31:23) ● Discussed Batman's return from retirement and his psychological state ● Analyzed the introduction of Carrie Kelly as the new Robin ● Examined the portrayal of villains, particularly Two-Face and Joker ● Discussed the comic's commentary on media and society ● 🚀 Superman's Role and Portrayal (31:23 - 42:40) ● Analyzed Superman's presence in the story and his relationship with the government ● Discussed the comic's portrayal of Superman as a powerful but conflicted character ● Examined the build-up to the confrontation between Batman and Superman ● Highlighted the comic's use of media commentary and world events ● 💥 Batman vs. Superman Conflict (42:42 - 52:02) ● Discussed the iconic fight between Batman and Superman ● Analyzed the tactics and preparation Batman uses against Superman ● Examined the weakened state of Superman due to various factors ● Discussed the implications of the fight and its resolution ● 🎭 Character Analysis and Comic Impact (52:02 - 01:00:02) ● Analyzed the portrayal of various characters, including Green Arrow and Carrie Kelly ● Discussed the comic's influence on subsequent Batman and Superman stories ● Examined the comic's legacy and its impact on the superhero genre ● Highlighted the comic's nuanced portrayal of its characters ● 🎬 Wrap-up and Final Thoughts (01:00:03 - 01:08:56) ● Discussed the comic's standalone nature and its sequels ● Shared personal opinions on the comic and its various adaptations ● Provided information on where to find the podcast hosts and guest online ● Promoted other podcasts and content from the network
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Episode 132 - Irredeemable with Jesse Fresco
09/19/2024
Episode 132 - Irredeemable with Jesse Fresco
How much pressure would it take for the Man of Steel to break? Jesse Fresco joins Case and Jmike to look at a series that asked that question: Irredeemable, written by Mark Waid, drawn by Peter Krause and Diego Barreto.
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Episode 131 - My Adventures with Superman Season 2 with Red and Blue from Overly Sarcastic Productions
08/29/2024
Episode 131 - My Adventures with Superman Season 2 with Red and Blue from Overly Sarcastic Productions
With the second season of My Adventures with Superman concluded, Case and Jmike are once again joined by Red and Blue from Overly Sarcastic Productions to reflect on it.
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Episode 130 - Unbreakable with Sophia Ricciardi
08/16/2024
Episode 130 - Unbreakable with Sophia Ricciardi
What if you had never been hurt? Never been sick? Would you be hero? Sophia Ricciardi joins Case and Jmike for some analysis of this stealth superhero movie. And make sure you check out the other side of this crossover by checking out Case's appearance on MovieStruck talking about the movie beat by beat: https://moviestruck.transistor.fm/episodes/moviestruck-episode-81-unbreakable-2000-feat-case-aiken
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Episode 129 - Calling Superman (The Board Game!) with Keith Lehtinen
08/02/2024
Episode 129 - Calling Superman (The Board Game!) with Keith Lehtinen
Did you know that Superman had a board game in the 50s? If Ebay didn’t exist, we wouldn’t have either! Keith Lehtinen joins Case and Jmike for some commentary and game highlights on this relic from a simpler time.
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Episode 128 - Tommy Oliver: The Superman of Power Rangers with Nic Woolfe
07/19/2024
Episode 128 - Tommy Oliver: The Superman of Power Rangers with Nic Woolfe
Not all superheroes wear capes. Some are teenagers with attitude! Nic Woolfe is back to chat about arguably the greatest Power Ranger of them all, Tommy Oliver!
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Episode 127 - The Famous Studios Superman Shorts with Anthony Desiato
06/28/2024
Episode 127 - The Famous Studios Superman Shorts with Anthony Desiato
The back half of the classic Superman shorts suffered from a drop in budget and a restructuring of the studio working on it. To look at these lesser cousins to the stellar Fleischer Studios Superman cartoons, Anthony Desiato (Digging For Kryptonite podcast) joins Case and Jmike for a conversation on the less notable but still... Famous... Superman shorts.
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Episode 126 - The Fleischer Superman Shorts with Brendan and Nick Connors
06/13/2024
Episode 126 - The Fleischer Superman Shorts with Brendan and Nick Connors
For many, the Fleischer Studios produced Superman Animated Shorts are the classic depiction of the Man of Steel and it's about time we talked about them. For this conversation, Case and Jmike are joined by Brendan and Nick Connors from the City of Supers podcast.
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Episode 125 - Superhero as Product with Birk O'Halloran from Iconic Wines
05/31/2024
Episode 125 - Superhero as Product with Birk O'Halloran from Iconic Wines
Going back to the earliest days of the medium, superheroes have been used to sell you stuff. For a conversation about the commerce of superheroes, Case and Jmike are joined by Birk O'Halloran from pop art themed wine brand Iconic Wines.
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Episode 124 - Evil Supermen! with Dylan J. Schlender
05/17/2024
Episode 124 - Evil Supermen! with Dylan J. Schlender
The archetype of Superman is a compelling one, even when flipped from good to evil. For a conversation on villainous spins on the Man of Steel, Case and Jmike are joined by Dylan J. Schlender from The Reels of Justice podcast!
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Episode 123 - Superman: The Dominus Effect with Grant Richter
04/24/2024
Episode 123 - Superman: The Dominus Effect with Grant Richter
In the wake of the, at the time, unpopular “Electric Blue” era of Superman, we were presented four EXTREMELY classic takes on Superman. From the Truth, Justice, and Hope podcast, Grant Richter joins Case and Jmike to talk about “The Dominus Effect”.
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Episode 122 - Watchmen with Doug Lief
03/29/2024
Episode 122 - Watchmen with Doug Lief
Who watches the Watchmen? We do! Case and Jmike, along with Doug Lief do! They’re here to talk about the comic and it’s various adaptations and spin offs. Find Doug’s show: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/nostalgium-arcanum/id1647660534
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Episode 121 - Man of Steel with Jesse Fresco
03/05/2024
Episode 121 - Man of Steel with Jesse Fresco
Jesse Fresco joins Case and Jmike to look at Superman's last solo film! Check out Jesse's work over at Jaguar Sharks! https://open.spotify.com/show/0z0fwhI0yEttCleRWxpAOg
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Episode 120 - Superman IV: The Quest for Peace with DJ Nik
02/16/2024
Episode 120 - Superman IV: The Quest for Peace with DJ Nik
"What a brilliant future we could have. And there will be peace – there will be peace when the people of this world want it so badly that their governments will have no choice but to give it to them. I just wish you could all see the Earth the way that I see it. Because when you really look at it, it's just one world." DJ Nik from the Happiness in Darkness podcast (and way more!) joins Case and Jmike to talk about the final movie in the Christopher Reeve series.
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Episode 119 - The Optimal Optimus
01/31/2024
Episode 119 - The Optimal Optimus
Some Men of Steel are actually MONKEY! Case and Jmike are joined by Derek Van Dyke to talk about what is undoubtedly the "Optimal Optimus" (as well as "Code of Hero" because we are not monsters). Transcript (Subject to error) 00:00 Case Aiken Season one has a couple, like, events that feel like this should be the season finale. Like the floating island one. Yeah. And then it's like, oh, no, we're just gonna keep going. 00:07 Derek Van Dyke Season one just did a lot of great, like, mini story arcs leading up to. Yeah. Watching Beast wars, like, out of order on syndication, over the air was. 00:17 Jmike Folson Yeah, that would have messed with you. 00:18 Derek Van Dyke Yeah, because it's like every other week there's some season finale, and you're like, what is happening? 00:40 Case Aiken Hey, everyone, and welcome back to the Men of Steel podcast. I am an optimal case Aiken, and as always, I am joined by my rat trap, J. Mike Falson. 00:51 Jmike Folson I gotta be rat trap, though. Why couldn't it be Cheetor? 00:53 Case Aiken Oh. 00:54 Jmike Folson Anyway, hey, welcome back, everybody. 00:55 Case Aiken I mean, honestly, you're probably the rhinox of the team. 01:01 Derek Van Dyke A higher compliment you cannot give. 01:05 Case Aiken Well, and there's the peacemaker right there. So that's the tiger Tron, Derek Van. 01:09 Derek Van Dyke Dyke, although I do not have nearly as deep and dulcite of tones as Tigatron's voice actor. 01:16 Case Aiken What's his name? Blue Mankuma. 01:18 Derek Van Dyke Beautiful, beautiful voice. 01:20 Case Aiken An incredible voice. So we're not going to mince words here. I tried to do a bit and it didn't quite work. But you know what? We're going to maximize this effort here. Today we're talking about maximize Transformers, Beast wars, and specifically, we're going to talk about Optimus Primal and how I would argue that he is a Superman analog. And before we started recording, Derek and I were talking about how probably of any Transformers character, especially any Beast wars character, Optimus prime is the best example of a Superman type character in the series. 01:50 Derek Van Dyke And that also, I think that primal specifically is probably the best version of Optimus to make that analog with in terms of the ways that Primal is a unique character from G, one Optimus, or, like, prime or Energon or any of those other versions of Optimus Primal, very much stands out in that regard to me. 02:11 Case Aiken Yeah. I mean, so much so that in the episode victory, there is a direct, like, it's a bird, it's a plane. It's exactly. I mean, we're all 90s babies here. This seemed kind of like an appropriate little session of just, like, nostalgia and looking at a thing that definitely, even if the metaphor is forced, it is the heroic archetype that we try to talk about on this piece, where a character has the power of action and does his or her best to make the world a better place, regardless of threats and regardless of the ability to do more in a way that would be harmful to others and trying to avoid those types of situations. So we picked out a bunch of episodes from the first season to really focus on for this. But we'll talk about the series as a whole. 02:56 Case Aiken We'll talk about some of the other characters. We're obviously going to talk about code of Hero because we're not monsters on this podcast. And that has to be discussed if we're talking about beast wars. But we are going to try to frame the conversation mostly about Optimus Primal, who is just goddamn awesome. And I think a good place to start, then, before we actually get into the episodes, is just how Optimus Primal is not Optimus prime. They're very similar characters. They are obviously both the leader types for the group. But for one thing, Optimus Primal isn't just the biggest fucking dude in the room. 03:28 Jmike Folson Always. 03:30 Derek Van Dyke Yeah, he's interestingly, like, perfect middle size. Rhinox and Dinobot are bigger than, like, several characters. Outsize him in stature, so he's not the big guy of the team like Optimus traditionally is. 03:45 Case Aiken Right? I mean, Skyfire aside, or Omega supreme or any of the other really weird ones out there, Optimus prime was always sort of positioned as being the biggest one. And some of that is japanese toy convention of having the leader types always be the biggest action figure, which is true for the Optimus primal gorilla figure. Although of course, for those of us from the 90s who remember when the Beast wars toys first came out, Optimus Primal was a bat. 04:09 Derek Van Dyke Oh God. That's right. I forgot that the first toy was a bat. Wow. 04:15 Case Aiken Yeah. And Megatron was a crocodile. 04:17 Derek Van Dyke I don't think I ever saw the megatron crocodile. 04:20 Case Aiken Yeah, well, and then they got phased out and they put out. Right, right. 04:23 Derek Van Dyke And then we got the ones that. 04:24 Case Aiken Are the monkey nut truck version of Optimus. While the figure was the biggest. There's a little bit of a weirdness when you look at Rhinox. Like, depending on the shot, rhinox is clearly bigger in beast form, but sometimes a little bigger. A little. Maybe not quite as tall, but wider in terms of sizing. It's still early. 04:40 Derek Van Dyke They don't always make him, like, way taller than everyone else. Rhinox is the big guy because he's also just wide and stock. He's built like a linebacker. 04:49 Case Aiken Yeah. Meanwhile, Dinobot is definitely the tallest of at least the season one maximals, and just is one of the biggest of the show, just generally speaking, which continues to be useful for him even when he does not get some of the upgrades that the others do. But yeah, no, Optimus, he's not the biggest one in the room. He is pretty tough, and he is actually pretty capable. One of the big differences that they make in Beast wars versus g one transformers is that they can't all fly explicitly whatever the hell was going on in the more than meets the eye pilot. And then in later episodes where it's like, oh, I guess we forgot how to fly. Optimus Primal is the unique one on the early team. He's the flyer for the group to. 05:27 Derek Van Dyke The point that's a huge advantage for the enemy team, the predacons, because they have multiple flyers, and we've just got Optimus on the good guy's side. And since he's also the commander, it's risky to have him flying around on basic scout duty. 05:42 Case Aiken Right. Scouting, you would think, would go to the flyer. He's also not the heaviest heavy, but he's a heavy on the team. They make a very big point early in the pilot of, like, in terms of COVID fire, Optimus can move faster to a location, but he's also going to be a better person to lay down suppressing fire in a situation. You kind of need him to be able to move into those spots. And so what that means is that Optimus primal in Beast wars is a generalist for the majority of the show. Yeah. 06:09 Jmike Folson Mid tier character. 06:10 Case Aiken That's a niche that a Superman type often falls into when they actually scale the power levels accordingly for a team, as opposed to having the big fluctuations of a full on Superman in the group. Because Optimus is durable as hell. He's strong as hell. He can fly, and he's got firepower, but he's not necessarily the top for any of them. He's the red mage on the team, which, if you're seeing everyone as having stats that get spread out and some people focus on some, the Superman type is going to be. Yeah, fast, strong, durable, good up close. 06:39 Derek Van Dyke Good from afar, good at thinking out a plan while not necessarily being, like, the master tactician. Like you said, a little bit of everything. 06:46 Jmike Folson Yeah, I thought that was because this iteration, like, when the first episode, they clearly say they're explorers. 06:52 Case Aiken Yes. 06:52 Jmike Folson So I was like, okay, they're not, like, beefy types that we're used to seeing. So I thought that kind of got explained away right there. I was like, okay, they're just doing their thing, and this optimist is just like, copernicus, Galileo. 07:03 Derek Van Dyke Yeah, well, and that's kind of a good point too, that this optimist is not a definitive military leader with a ton of experience. This is a scientist and a man of peace, and he has doubts. I think that, like, g one Optimus, who was really the only other version of Optimus that existed at the time that beast wars came out, right? 07:27 Case Aiken I think, yeah, I mean, there's g two Optimus toys and comics, but there hadn't really been, like, a mainstream transformers. 07:34 Jmike Folson I remember Megatron saying throughout these episodes is that at this point in the Transformers timeline, the Autobots had won the war. The Autobots had won the war. And the predicons, decepticons were underneath them. Now, I don't know how that figured out and everything else. 07:49 Case Aiken Well, it's a weird part, and I'll go into it, because I watched these to death back when I actually got them dvd. I watched these back in the day. Initially, I taped these off of vcrs and rewatched it, but I bought the dvds and I listened to the commentary tracks a ton. So I have some input from that which I did not get a chance to re listen to. So I'm only going touch on it a little bit. It's a weird series of a show in that it is technically in continuity with the original Transformers show in a way that is different from all the other transformers stuff that has come since. There has been a ton of Transformers material of all types, including additional versions of Beast wars characters and so forth. 08:23 Case Aiken What we're saying, though, is at the time when this came out, there was Peter Cullen as Optimus prime, and now we're getting Gary Chalk as Optimus Primal and setting those two up as different characters. 08:35 Derek Van Dyke Yes, and spoilers for a late 90s animated series. But it's both a sequel and prequel to the original transformers as opposed to a reimagining. And I just think that's also so interesting because to me, gen one Optimus is not a lot of a character. He's cool, right? But because it's Peter Cullen, and he just has some raw lines to lay down. But to me, it's the more dynamic personality of primal, of being somebody who does have doubts, being somebody who does fail more, somebody who is a boy scout, but also kind of aware of the ways that holds them back sometimes and has to struggle with that, I think makes him a more interesting character for actually engaging with the question of what it means to be a leader. 09:26 Case Aiken What it means to be a hero. 09:28 Derek Van Dyke Even sometimes, if you don't want to be, but just because you're the one. 09:32 Case Aiken Who is best able to be, right? I mean, he was the leader of a scientific exploration vessel and all of a sudden had to do a police action against war criminals. And it's stuck in this situation where in a Dino riders style pilot sequence, they transport back in time and crash land on ancient Earth and have to contend with weird histories and all that. I think this also goes for the fact that the supporting cast is so strong. And part of that is that this is a mid to late 90s CGI cartoon wherein they couldn't have that many characters. Like the original Transformers had, like, a fuck ton of characters, especially, oh, my God, we can't keep track of. And on purpose, like, to the point where they just start introducing characters. They don't need to be like, oh, here's the new guy. 10:16 Case Aiken It's just like, this guy's always been here, right? Like, you know, Perceptor, the microscope guy. You know him, right? He's been in all these episodes somewhere. 10:25 Derek Van Dyke He was just off screen. 10:26 Case Aiken Yeah, no, he was down in the science lab doing science stuff. And this episode has science stuff. So here's Perceptor. You know the guy. And so with Beast wars, the show had a very small roster. It's five characters on each side initially, where they make up for the fact that they don't have the virtue of Transformers properties in general, which is that you like the ones that you think is cool, and then you have so many that everyone's going to find one that they think is cool, and you keep going. In this case, they had to be like, here's the distinct personalities for the five that we can animate on each side. 11:00 Derek Van Dyke Yeah, here's the personalities they have. Here are the skills that they have, how all of this stuff informs each other, and then how those characters have to change over the course of the episodes. Because Beast wars is really good about having characters start at one place and then have to change and grow, sometimes for better, sometimes for worse, as events affect them and stick with them in a way that was kind of rare for a lot of animation of the time. You have a lot of these animated shows of the time, and especially the original Transformers. Right? Where the point was, like, we have our episode plot of the week, and at the end, everything's going to go back to the status quo, right? And Beast wars really threw that out. 11:42 Case Aiken The window, for one thing. We have such dynamic supporting cast members like Rattrap and Dinobot on the hero side, where Rattrap is insubordinate, a coward, super competent, and a prick. Like, it's great, that whole combination right there. And then you have Dinobot, who was a reformed bad guy, and anyone who knows me knows that I am a sucker for reformed bad guy. No, like, Anubis is my favorite character on Ronan Warriors, Dinobot is one of my favorite characters. Piccolo is my favorite dragon Ball Z character. The honorable bad guy who realized the errors of his way and has reformed in ways that are logically consistent and not just because we needed a heel face turn for the sake of the plot, is so fucking good. And Dinobot is that. 12:31 Case Aiken And again, we're going to talk about code of hero, because we have to talk about code of hero. It's so goddamn good. But that means that right from the get go, we've got people who are arguing against Optimus Primal. Rattrap, who is on his team, who was part of his crew, asks him if he's up to the task constantly because the mission is different. First episode all the time. Like, Rattrap refuses a direct order, and so Optimus Primal has to put himself in danger. And then later is like, here is why I did this thing. Here's why I explained it this way, and I asked you to do it because it made more sense that way. And instead, we did it this way, and now we're hurt, and we're not in a good position where we can actually easily fix ourselves. Things are bad. 13:13 Case Aiken And then Ratchup still is giving him shit. It's not like a one time, and then it's fine. Every single time afterwards, he's giving him crap until eventually he finally learns to trust him. 13:23 Jmike Folson Optimus had to tell him early on. He's like, I'm not going to put you in positions and things that I wouldn't do myself, so you're going to have to trust me. And Raptrap's like, man, whatever. 13:34 Case Aiken Sure, Optimus. And that's such a good line. 13:37 Derek Van Dyke Better you than me. 13:39 Case Aiken That honestly has stuck with me in terms of my management style so much more, probably more than it's, like, healthy in some regards, where I'll throw myself out there to work on a project where I'm like, I probably should have been focusing on the macro. There have been plenty of times where it's like, oh, yeah, this project that needed to be done by the end of the month. I'm now cramming to finish because were in the weeds about something else somewhere earlier in the month kind of thing. But I think that's such a great aspect of his character. He is completely prepared to lead from the front, to take the hits, to do all that, even if he sees the best way to do it is this. And that's the plan I'm going to go with. 14:13 Case Aiken But when something doesn't work, when circumstances change, he'll get out there. There's no problem with that. And it's not for glory. It's not for honor. It's not for anything like that. This is the best plan. And does it make the most sense for me to be there? Yes. No. But it's never out of cowardice. It's never even self preservation from the standpoint of, like, well, I'm the commander. I have to survive so I can keep making new plans. Like, when the plan fails to make a new plan type character. No, he's not that. He just is aware that he's also pretty well equipped to do a bunch of different jobs because he's the red mage on the right. Yeah. 14:47 Derek Van Dyke And especially bringing up rat Trap and the way that rat trap kind of does not respect Optimus's authority at first. 14:55 Case Aiken Can we just pause before we go further on a discussion of rat Trap? And let's just say for anyone who has not watched the show, rat Trap is Rocket Raccoon. 15:03 Derek Van Dyke Yeah, I mean, that's a great point of comparison for modern audiences, like, to. 15:08 Case Aiken The point where I'm wondering if when they kind of rebooted rocket raccoon to be the character that he is in the comics, if they were looking at, like, they're that close. Yeah, we're all going to die, right? That's his catchphrase. We're all going to die. 15:22 Derek Van Dyke God, Scott McNeil is just so good as half the cast of this show. Yeah, but, like Rattrap, it's a great example of. One of the most powerful aspects of Optimus Primal, to me, is the effect that he has on the rest of the cast. Rat Trap is somebody who starts off as very cowardly, very insubordinate, and obviously, he's always going to be the team loudmouth and the team cynic. But over the course of especially that first season, you really watch rat trap, like, one step at a time. Have to learn from Optimus's example and from Cheetor some. But in that case, it's still indirectly Optimus, because Cheetor adores Optimus and is trying to do everything he can to mirror that behavior, sometimes to overly enthusiastic. 16:12 Derek Van Dyke But, like, it's that drags rat trap into being more of a team player, being more heroic, putting himself at risk more when he's the best person for a job you can watch over the course of that first season, how much he changes. And that's entirely Optimus's influence as a leader. 16:33 Case Aiken Yeah, that's the best part about Optimus, which is that the team becomes better because of his presence there. He inspires people to better, which is exactly the kind of thing we talk about on this show and why the archetype of, like, a hero who is doing their best is important. 16:51 Derek Van Dyke Yeah, it's not enough to be the leader and be like the jack of all trades. You also have to be a little bit the Paladin. Right? Like, you have to be somebody who, it's not just the actions that you take, but how you empower the people around you to better, to teach young and impressionable Cheetor to think a little bit more ahead, to teach rat trap to be kind of braver, to be an example for Dinobot to clash against. Right. Which is so fascinating because Dinobot never fully takes on Optimus's ideals. But I think especially by code of Hero, we'll get to it. You do see how much he has learned by his time with the maximals. 17:33 Case Aiken Why don't we actually dig into the episodes that we wanted to talk about? The ones that we highlighted specifically were the two part pilot BSors, episode ten, guerrilla warfare episode twelve, victory episode 24 before the storm, which is really just the first part of the three part finale, and then the two part finale of season one, which is other voices, and then Code of hero, because again, we're not monsters here. Yeah. So talking about beast wars, the Pilot, I emailed you guys when I was watching it because right from the...
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Episode 118 - My Adventures with Superman with Red and Blue from Overly Sarcastic Productions
12/23/2023
Episode 118 - My Adventures with Superman with Red and Blue from Overly Sarcastic Productions
It's exciting to reinvent a character as classic as Superman for a new generation while remaining true to his core. Case and Jmike are joined by Red and Blue from Overly Sarcastic Productions to gush about the first season of "My Adventures with Superman".
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Episode 117 - Hitman #34 "Of Thee I Sing" with Jala-chan
12/08/2023
Episode 117 - Hitman #34 "Of Thee I Sing" with Jala-chan
We're visited from Jala-chan's place by Jala-chan herself and she brought goodies! In this case, she's paying off a vow to spread the word of Hitman issue 34, a famed emotional exchange between Superman and a fan (who happens to be an assassin). !
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Episode 116 - Reflected Glory with Kieth Lehtinen and Special Guest Paul Kupperberg
11/23/2023
Episode 116 - Reflected Glory with Kieth Lehtinen and Special Guest Paul Kupperberg
Case has raved about the 90s anthology "Superheroes" a lot on this show and it's finally time to talk about one of the most memorable. In this case, Case got to even chat with the author! Case and Jmike are joined by Keith Lehtinen for a conversation about Reflected Glory with an interview with comics legend, Paul Kupperberg!
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Episode 115 - Superboy's Legion with Jim Fetters
10/16/2023
Episode 115 - Superboy's Legion with Jim Fetters
We’re going BACK to the FUTURE! Jim Fetters joins Jmike and Case for a look at Alan Davis and Mark Farmer’s 30th Century followup to JLA: The Nail, Superboy’s Legion!
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Bonus Episode - The Snyder Cut Crossover: Omnibus Edition
07/05/2023
Bonus Episode - The Snyder Cut Crossover: Omnibus Edition
Back in the day, Case and Jmike teamed up with a bunch of other podcasters to do a 4 part review of Zack Snyder's Justice League. Collected here is all 4 parts!
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Episode 114 - Pop Quiz 8!
06/18/2023
Episode 114 - Pop Quiz 8!
We’re back with another Pop Quiz as Jmike tries to pick Case’s brain for one last pre-Baby Brain time!
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