Unreserved Wine Talk

The Unreserved Wine Talk podcast features candid conversations with the most fascinating people in the wine world. Your host, award-winning journalist Natalie MacLean, dives into how it feels to compete in the nerve-wracking World's Best Sommelier Competition, the shadowy underground of wine forgery, the zany tactics of a winemaker who hosted a funeral for cork, and more. Nestled in these colourful stories are practical tips on how to choose wine from a restaurant list, pair it with food and spot great values in the liquor store. Every second episode, Natalie goes solo with an unfiltered, personal reflection on wine. She'll share with you how it feels to be a woman in what is still a largely male-dominated field, her gut reaction to the latest health study that says no amount of alcohol consumption is safe and her journey in writing her next book. She'll reveal these vulnerable, sometimes embarrassing, stories with tipsy wit and wisdom that she's soaked up from 20 years of writing about wine. This podcast is for wine lovers from novices to well-cellared aficionados.

355: Why Should You Try Brazil's Serra Gaucha Wines and Visit This Stunning Region? 09/17/2025

355: Why Should You Try Brazil's Serra Gaucha Wines and Visit This Stunning Region? Why is Serra Gaúcha the best place to start exploring Brazilian wine and what does this stunning region look like if you want to visit? Which grape varieties thrive in Brazil and have any unique varieties been successful? What's happening with wine culture in Brazil? In this episode of the Unreserved Wine Talk podcast, I'm chatting with Tufi Meyer, author of the terrific new book, Wines of Brazil. You don’t need to have listened to part one from last week first, but if you missed it, go back and have a listen after you finish this one. You can find the wines we discussed at Giveaway Two of you are going to win a copy of Tufi Neder Meyer's terrific book, Wines of Brazil. To qualify, all you have to do is email me at and let me know that you’ve posted a review of the podcast. I’ll choose two people randomly from those who contact me. Good luck! Highlights What’s the story behind Casa Verrone's "Purple Cow” and what was the tasting experience like? How does Brazilian wine law define noble wine? Which types of Brazilian wood are being used for barrel aging and how do they impact the wines? What are the most successful grape varieties that are native to Brazil? What’s happening with wine culture in Brazil? What does it mean for a wine to have a foxy aroma? Does Brazil produce dessert wines? What do you need to know about the Serra Gaúcha wine region? Which cities and wine regions should you visit on a trip to Brazil? How have heavy taxation and bureaucracy impacted the development of the Brazilian wine industry? What is the one message Tufi would like to share with international wine lovers about Brazilian wines? What does Tufi see for the future of the Brazilian wine industry? Who would Tufi like to be able to share a bottle of wine with? Key Takeaways Serra Gaucha is a hilly, almost mountainous region, north of the capital of Rio Grande do Sul, a state in the south. It has a long tradition of winemaking and it's a very beautiful region with a very well-developed tourist structure. It's certainly the first region in Brazil where you should go when you start to get to know our wines. Almost every winery has a tasting room, and they are open to visitors. Good restaurants, good hotels, good towns to see. And it's not far from the state capital. In Brazil, like in Argentina, the United States, Canada or Chile, European grapes are the most successful - Chardonnay, Sauvignon Blanc, Pinot Noir, Syrah, Cabernet Sauvignon, Cabernet Franc - and these are the most successful grapes so far. But we also make our Vinifera wines, varieties developed here in Brazil. The most successful so far is Lorena, which you will not find anywhere else. We have developed a crossing. It's a white grape, very aromatic, Muscat-like or reminds us of Gewurztraminer. It's very successful, growing in popularity. Brazil has tried to develop some exclusive red grapes, but so far, not with very good results. So you won't find red grapes that are equivalent to Lorena, for instance. We must content ourselves with grapes from other countries, but we have a lot of them. The wine consumption in Brazil is growing, although we would like to be faster. I presume this is because wine is fashionable, wine is very good with food, and people are curious about wine. Wine education is progressing. All this may explain this situation, and our national wine industry is growing too. About Tufi Neder Meyer Tufi Neder Meyer, a graduate of UFMG Medical School with a PhD in surgery, has studied wines since before college and has been a wine educator since the 1990s. He lives and works in Brazil’s south-east, teaching at The Wine School Brazil (WSET approved). Tufi authored ‘Wines of Brazil’, a part of the Classic Wine Library of L’Académie du Vin. To learn more, visit . /episode/index/show/nataliemaclean/id/38251320

354: Why are Brazil's sparkling wines spectacular? Tufi Meyer reveals the answers in Wines of Brazil 09/10/2025

354: Why are Brazil's sparkling wines spectacular? Tufi Meyer reveals the answers in Wines of Brazil Why are the sparkling wines the most successful wines? What is it about the wines of Brazil, the terroir, that really makes them excel? How does double pruning and winter harvesting help Brazilian vineyards produce higher-quality wines? How did family farming traditions shape Brazil’s wine regions, and what is the crossover between coffee and grape cultivation? In this episode of the Unreserved Wine Talk podcast, I'm chatting with Tufi Meyer, author of the new book Wines of Brazil. You can find the wines we discussed at Giveaway Two of you are going to win a copy of Tufi Neder Meyer's terrific book, Wines of Brazil. To qualify, all you have to do is email me at and let me know that you’ve posted a review of the podcast. I’ll choose two people randomly from those who contact me. Good luck! Highlights Where did Tufi’s love for wine come from? Why do red sparkling wines from southern Brazil pair so well with the traditional dish feijoada? Which characteristics make Brazilian sparkling wines particularly successful compared to other wine styles? What’s the biggest misconception about Brazilian wine? How does Brazil’s annual wine production compare to other South American producers? Why hasn't Brazil’s wine industry developed as large as those of Argentina and Chile? How did Portuguese colonial policies impact the development of Brazil’s wine industry? How does Brazil’s size and climate diversity influence viticulture? How has the legacy of land ownership and agricultural practices from the coffee industry shaped modern Brazilian viticulture? Is there any crossover between the coffee and wine industries? How do the different types of viticulture practiced in Brazil differ? What is unique about tropical viticulture in Brazil? Why do some Syrah wines from Brazil resemble those from the northern Rhône in France more than Australian Shiraz? What challenges do Brazilian vineyards face due to the humid climate in certain regions? Key Takeaways Brazil has all sorts of sparkling wines, from traditional method, made like champagne to sweet, made from Muscat in zesty fashion, passing through tank methods, sparklers. But all of them have a very important character. It's fruit ripeness. Fruit is forward in Brazilian wines. Maybe elegant sometimes, or very well declared at other times, but it's easy to perceive and it's easy to like it. There's a fresh character to our sparklers. If you plant vines in Brazil in places where it is too humid and too warm at that harvest time, you won't get good quality grapes. But if this place has a winter which is not too cold, which has sunny days and cool nights, if you've succeeded in having the harvest during such a time, you have good grapes. That's precisely what double pruning makes. You prune in January, you start a new growth cycle, and the vines will be ripened during our winter. So the winter harvesting. Dry time, sunny days, cool nights. When the Italian immigrants arrived, they were given pieces of land. That's what is today Serra Gaúcha, our main wine-producing region. The relations between coffee and wine have started very much more recently, when double pruning and winter harvest developed here in a coffee region. And today the vines are planted in the same places where coffee does well. In slopes with little risk of frosts, better drain the terrain and many times together, side by side, grapes and coffee groves. About Tufi Neder Meyer Tufi Neder Meyer, a graduate of UFMG Medical School with a PhD in surgery, has studied wines since before college and has been a wine educator since the 1990s. He lives and works in Brazil’s south-east, teaching at The Wine School Brazil (WSET approved). Tufi authored ‘Wines of Brazil’, a part of the Classic Wine Library of L’Académie du Vin. To learn more, visit . /episode/index/show/nataliemaclean/id/38151690

353: How do vines thrive in Mount Etna’s rocky, volcanic soils on the island of Sicily? 09/03/2025

353: How do vines thrive in Mount Etna’s rocky, volcanic soils on the island of Sicily? How can vines for wine thrive in Mount Etna’s rocky, volcanic soils on the island of Sicily? Mount Etna is a perpetual baby in terms of its vineyard soils; constant rejuvenation of the soil through ash and lava impacts the vine's health and the resulting grape characteristics. The lava flows are centuries old and vary widely. So, how would a producer choose one flow over another for planting? How does Mount Etna still have pre-phylloxera vines that are over 200 years old? In this episode of the Unreserved Wine Talk podcast, I'm chatting with Ben Spencer, the award-winning author of The New Wines of Mount Etna. You can find the wines we discussed at Highlights Why did Ben find Fabio Costantino of Terra Costantino such a fascinating and emblematic person from Etna’s wine community? What is the landscape of Mount Etna like, and what makes it unique and beautiful? How do producers on Etna choose which lava flow to plant on? What does it look like to grow grapes in a place as fertile as on Etna? How do Etna wines compare with other volcanic wines? Are field blends of different grape varieties still common in Etna’s vineyards? How does Nerello Mascalese compare to Pinot Noir grapes? Why is Nerello Cappuccio mostly used in blends rather than as a single varietal wine? How does Carricante, Etna’s signature white grape, develop the kerosene or petrol aroma often found in aged Riesling? What were some of the oldest vines Ben has seen on Mount Etna? How can you get the most out of a trip to Etna? Who would Ben love to share a bottle of wine with? Key Takeaways How can vines for wine thrive in Mount Etna’s rocky, volcanic soils on the island of Sicily? It's very, very fertile and you can plant just about anything. The vines are only part of that biodiversity. You can put a grafted vine selection, masala, cutting from your own vineyard into the earth. What it taps into will sort of define what that vine will be. We see 95% of the vines take because the soil is so fertile. Mount Etna's lava flows are centuries old and vary widely. How would a producer choose one flow over another for planting? Sometimes it's a simple budgetary decision or a farming decision, whether to take over an old vine vineyard or to buy something and replant new vines, whether you want to face the contours of the mountain, or if you want to ease into it with tractor or some sort of mechanized labor, not that many producers do much more than use a tractor in the vineyard, it's very difficult to use heavy machinery on it, and everybody harvests by hand. But certain contrada, certain lava flows, the age of the soil, the slope, east, north, south, they have different flavors. They have different spices, and it's all that lasagna layering of the mountain. It has its own style. How does Mount Etna still have pre-phylloxera vines that are over 200 years old? On Etna, we don't have a lot of clay. So we do have these very, very old vines. The soils need about 3% clay to incubate phylloxera over the winter. And so the soil isn't old enough to have that much clay in it. There's also the snow up at elevation, so it's just inhospitable to the louse. But the oldest vines that I've seen are either Nerello Mascalese or possibly Minnella. The trunks can get really, really big. They can get really long. They look like they're prehistoric. About Benjamin Spencer Benjamin Spencer is the Director of Etna Wine School and the award-winning author of The New Wines of Mount Etna. In addition to holding a Diploma from the London-based Wine & Spirit Education Trust, Ben is a journalist, wine judge, and a professional winemaker with two decades of experience working with artisan and internationally traded wine brands in California and Italy. To learn more, visit . /episode/index/show/nataliemaclean/id/38069025

352: The New Volcanic Wines of Sicily's Mount Etna with Ben Spencer 08/27/2025

352: The New Volcanic Wines of Sicily's Mount Etna with Ben Spencer How do elevation and slope influence the style of volcanic wines of Mount Etna? What can volcanic wine made on Mount Etna in Sicily teach us about life? How is Mount Etna’s wine scene evolving? In this episode of the Unreserved Wine Talk podcast, I'm chatting with Ben Spencer, the award-winning author of The New Wines of Mount Etna. You can find the wines we discussed at Highlights Which aspects of Ben’s first trip to Sicily in 2007 left a lasting impression? What stood out about Ben’s first experience tasting Etna wine in Sicily? Which early experience exploring Etna’s vineyards fundamentally changed Ben’s understanding of the region and its wines? What do the wines of Etna show us about the relationship between winemaking and life? What are the biggest differences between winemaking in California and Etna, outside of terroir? What does the future look like for Etna wine? Are there limitations to the Etna DOC classification and what is the viable elevation range for vineyards? How do the wine characteristics vary between vines grown in different areas of the mountain? How do the periodic eruptions affect the soil in the vineyards on the slopes of Mount Etna? What was Ben’s vision for the Etna Wine School and which programs are now available? How did Ben’s poetry background influence his transition into wine writing? What can you expect from reading The New Wines of Mount Etna? What was the most surprising thing Ben discovered while writing The New Wines of Mount Etna? Why was researching the book particularly challenging for Ben? Key Takeaways How do elevation and slope influence the style of volcanic wines of Mount Etna? At lower elevations, we're seeing more ripeness, earlier ripening, more boldness in the fruit. You see more opulent wines at lower elevations. Also, on the south slope, you're getting more development in the growing season because of the way the sun passes from the east along the south slope. The North Slope, we see a little bit more deflected light, especially in the shoulder seasons, so early spring and fall, and so you're getting more elegance. What can volcanic wine made on Mount Etna in Sicily teach us about life? To be patient, to watch, to listen, to learn from what's happening here, and to learn from everybody, because everybody has a different take on what's happening. Etna always moves outside of what we expect it to be. In the glass, we see a white wine, but all of a sudden there's white jasmine and orange flower together in the same field, and there's this juicy fruit and salinity and savory herbs and saltiness, and you get some repeated elements. How is Mount Etna’s wine scene evolving? With Etna being at the beginning of a new wave of production, we are seeing a lot of people trying to define what that is, what Etna can be and will be. It'll be a study of the different elevations, of the different soil types, of the different districts where the wines are being made. But also Etna is a 10,000 foot tall cone. So there's a lot of different aspects to mountain wind, to sunlight, to the sea breezes, to old soils, young soils, and so there's a lot of things happening. So I think Etna will become a benchmark for variety, for exciting wines made from Carricante, the white grape variety here, and also Nerello mascalese, the red grape, which is made into sparkling wines, Rosés and red wines quite successfully. About Benjamin Spencer Benjamin Spencer is the Director of Etna Wine School and the award-winning author of The New Wines of Mount Etna. In addition to holding a Diploma from the London-based Wine & Spirit Education Trust, Ben is a journalist, wine judge, and a professional winemaker with two decades of experience working with artisan and internationally traded wine brands in California and Italy. To learn more, visit . /episode/index/show/nataliemaclean/id/37976600

351: Why can’t we taste sweetness in sparkling wine and mistake black and white pepper aromas? 08/20/2025

351: Why can’t we taste sweetness in sparkling wine and mistake black and white pepper aromas? Why can’t we smell sweetness in sparkling wine? How much of what we “taste” in wine is influenced by its appearance and our expectations? What makes copper both a savior and a threat to viticulture? In this episode of the Unreserved Wine Talk podcast, I'm chatting with Sunny Hodge, author of the terrific new book, The Cynic's Guide to Wine. You can find the wines we discussed at Giveaway Two of you are going to win a copy of Sunny Hodge’s terrific new book, The Cynic's Guide to Wine. To qualify, all you have to do is email me at and let me know that you’ve posted a review of the podcast. I’ll choose two people randomly from those who contact me. Good luck! Highlights Why is it important to look beyond wine characteristics and consider? How does The Cynic's Guide to Wine aim to challenge the way we talk about wine? Can fossilized oysters in vineyard soil really impart marine characteristics on the wine? Why should food and wine lovers know the story of Fitz Haber? What makes copper both a savior and a threat to viticulture? Why should we move away from the focus on wine flavours and instead use descriptors of what it truly offers? Where does the buttery flavour in wine come from? How does cork taint affect wine as well as our sense of smell and perception? Why do vines grown in cooler temperatures have more black pepper notes? How much of what we “taste” in wine is influenced by its appearance and our expectations? Why can’t we smell sweetness in wine? Could sniffing slower change which aromas you detect in a wine? Why are humans more sensitive to bitter tastes versus sweet? How does adding ice to whiskey open up its aromas? Key Takeaways The little CO₂ bubbles in sparkling wine dissolve in your saliva and form a physical barrier between certain molecules hitting your tongue and your ability to taste certain things. Sweetness, is the first thing that’ll get blocked out. So, if you have a sparkling wine that has some sweetness, as your saliva builds up with bubbles, you won’t perceive it. We in wine extrapolate a little bit and think, “It's a white wine,” so I may psychosomatically associate it with white peppery things, rather than a red wine, which might be black pepper. It’s actually the same sesquiterpene, called rotundone. We just trick ourselves into perceiving it one way rather than the other. This happens a lot in wine. Copper is naturally antimicrobial and antifungal, which is why we use it in plumbing, hospitals, and as touchpads on doors. Fungal pests like downy and powdery mildew, which affect vines. We spray vines with copper base concoctions to prevent that fungus building up, which will destroy our harvests. But it's not just the heavy metal, but it when it rains, it'll hit your soils and affect earthworms and all of the things that we know to be really good for the soils, naturally. We stop our soil's ability to just look after itself. We haven't found a unified way to overcome downy and powdery mildew without the use of copper. About Sunny Hodge Sunny Hodge is the sole founder of Diogenes the Dog and aspen & meursault; two multi award-winning wine bars associated with challenging the status quo of wine. He is in the process of developing a wine qualification, The Science of Wine Course. His book “The Cynic’s Guide to Wine” delves into the science behind wine from soil upwards into our perception of taste and flavour to dispel wine myths using science. He is also a member of the Circle of Wine Writers. He is an International wine judge for IWSC awards, was recently shortlisted for the LWF Buyers Awards 2025 for both ‘On-Trade Multiple Venue Wine Buyer’ and ‘Sustainable Wine Buyer of the Year’. Hodge is also a commentator and wine writer for the likes of Waitrose Food Magazine, Evening Standard, The Times, The Guardian, Food FM and Monocle Radio and ITV’s Love Your Weekend. To learn more, visit . /episode/index/show/nataliemaclean/id/37888455

350: Can you really taste “minerality” in wine? Sunny Hodge offers a Cynic's Guide to Wine 08/13/2025

350: Can you really taste “minerality” in wine? Sunny Hodge offers a Cynic's Guide to Wine Can you really taste “minerality” in wine? What gives Champagne and traditional method wines their signature bready flavor and creamy texture? How has natural wine sparked deeper conversations about how we farm and produce food and drink? In this episode of the Unreserved Wine Talk podcast, I'm chatting with Sunny Hodge You can find the wines we discussed at Giveaway Two of you are going to win a copy of Sunny Hodge’s terrific new book, The Cynic's Guide to Wine. To qualify, all you have to do is email me at and let me know that you’ve posted a review of the podcast. I’ll choose two people randomly from those who contact me. Good luck! Highlights What is the deeper meaning behind the name of Sunny’s London wine bar, aspen & meursault? How did Sunny’s early love of rollerskating shape his experiences growing up? What lessons did Sunny’s mother impart that still impact his worldview today? How did Sunny’s engineering background influence his approach to learning about wine? Can we really smell metals and minerals? Why was Sunny skeptical about the influence of soil on wine? What surprised Sunny about our technical insights into wine? How did Sunny find the balance between sharing the complex science behind wine and making it interesting to the average wine lover? Why does Sunny believe we should be applying cynicism to the world of wine? How do natural wines cause us to challenge the food and drink we bring to the table? What does "funky" mean in the context of natural wines? How does Sunny source unusual wines for his wine bars? What is humus, and how does it influence wine character? How do plants absorb nutrients from soil? Key Takeaways We can smell some geological materials like salt and some minerals, but most minerals and metals we're unable to smell and taste. And those metals that we feel that we can smell and taste, that's actually a tertiary influence of our oils reacting with those metals.Technically, metal and most other minerals except for salt, don't have smell or taste. Yeast autolysis is the process that gives champagnes and traditional method wines their bready, yeasty, autolytic flavor. Autolysis is when a yeast thinks it's gonna die and it's pretty stressed. So as alcohol levels pick up, and your yeast knows it's going to pass away soon, its enzymes will switch on to a different mode, and this is autolysis mode. They'll start eating away at the cell membrane of the yeast, and eventually they'll make little puncture holes, and all of the insides of the yeast will end up in the liquid. So that self-detonation of yeast in stressful environments is what gives the physical texture to your wine. That's why autolytic wines have that texture and it gives you those yeasty, bready flavors. Natural wine makes us question how we farm and how we produce all food and drink, not just wine. Wine is one that we can talk about and have a real discourse without it getting too boring. And with natural wine, those bigger topics are, how do we farm? What are the pros and cons of how we farm now, and how are we making our food and drink? About Sunny Hodge Sunny Hodge is the sole founder of Diogenes the Dog and aspen & meursault; two multi award-winning wine bars associated with challenging the status quo of wine. He is in the process of developing a wine qualification, The Science of Wine Course. His book “The Cynic’s Guide to Wine” delves into the science behind wine from soil upwards into our perception of taste and flavour to dispel wine myths using science. He is also a member of the Circle of Wine Writers. He is an International wine judge for IWSC awards, was recently shortlisted for the LWF Buyers Awards 2025 for both ‘On-Trade Multiple Venue Wine Buyer’ and ‘Sustainable Wine Buyer of the Year’. Hodge is also a commentator and wine writer for the likes of Waitrose Food Magazine, Evening Standard, The Times, The Guardian, Food FM and Monocle Radio and ITV’s Love Your Weekend. To learn more, visit . /episode/index/show/nataliemaclean/id/37795010

349: Why is Languedoc a Popular Choice for Organic, Biodynamic, and Natural Winemaking? 08/06/2025

349: Why is Languedoc a Popular Choice for Organic, Biodynamic, and Natural Winemaking? How does your perspective change when you start looking at life one vintage at a time, divided into seasons? What does it look like when wine is so deeply connected to a region that it shapes work, landscape, community, and what a culture values most? Why is Languedoc becoming a popular choice for organic, biodynamic, and natural winemaking? What makes a “bon moment” and why is it worth taking seriously? In this episode of the Unreserved Wine Talk podcast, I'm chatting with Steve Hoffman, who has written an award-winning memoir called A Season for That: Lost and Found in the Other Southern France. You can find the wines we discussed at Giveaway Three of you are going to win a copy of Steve Hoffman's terrific new book, A Season for That: Lost and Found in the Other Southern France. To qualify, all you have to do is email me at and let me know that you’ve posted a review of the podcast. I’ll choose three people randomly from those who contact me. Good luck! Highlights What was Steve’s favourite aperitif discovery in France? How did a funny mispronunciation lead to an embarrassing introduction? How did stuffed cuttlefish challenge Steve’s ideas about strong flavours and aromas in food? How does the historical connection between wine and work show up in French culture today? Why has the Languedoc remained in the shadow of Bordeaux and Burgundy, despite having the largest vineyard area in the world? What surprised Steve the most about the process of blending wine? Why does the latitude of a vineyard matter when learning about tasting wine? How can you have the best experience while visiting the Languedoc? Key Takeaways How does your perspective change when you start looking at life one vintage at a time, divided into seasons? You start thinking about the unfolding year as not months and days, but as seasons, and you look forward to the next season. And you participate fully, and then you let that season be done, and don't mourn it, because you know it's going to come around again. It forces you to be present in the moment, because it's not like, if I just wait long enough, things are going to get better. What does it look like when wine is so deeply connected to a region that it shapes work, landscape, community, and what a culture values most? In wine country, wine is not just a pleasant accompaniment to life; it literally forms everything. The vines themselves actually form the landscape and just becomes a part of everything. It's work, it's what creates revenue that the village can survive, but then it's also something that you have with almost every meal. Why is Languedoc becoming a popular choice for organic, biodynamic, and natural winemaking? It's still an affordable place to buy a hectare of vines, and so young winemakers can come in and they can afford to experiment with organic, natural or biodynamic winemaking. A lot of the chemicals to avoid spoilage - the Languedoc naturally doesn't have much of that. What makes a “bon moment” and why is it worth taking seriously? It's translated as a good moment, but in France, it has all kinds of other connotations. I think everybody who's listening will recognize one of those moments where you're sitting with people that you care about, where there's good wine and there's good food. That’s the centerpiece, that's the excuse to be together. But then the moment unfolds into something greater than itself. About Steve Hoffman Steve Hoffman is a Minnesota tax preparer and food writer. His writing has won multiple national awards, including the 2019 James Beard M.F.K. Fisher Distinguished Writing Award. He has been published in Food & Wine, The Washington Post, and The Minneapolis Star Tribune, among other publications. He shares one acre on Turtle Lake, in Shoreview, Minnesota, with his wife, Mary Jo, their elderly and entitled puggle, and roughly 80,000 honeybees. To learn more, visit . /episode/index/show/nataliemaclean/id/37699785

348: What’s It Like Moving Your Family Thousands of Miles to Live in the Wine Region of Languedoc, France? Steve Hoffman Shares Stories 07/30/2025

348: What’s It Like Moving Your Family Thousands of Miles to Live in the Wine Region of Languedoc, France? Steve Hoffman Shares Stories How can you create a life you don’t need a vacation from? What can we learn from the French about slowing down, savoring meals, and making conversation the heart of gatherings? What’s it like living in the “other southern France”? In this episode of the Unreserved Wine Talk podcast, I'm chatting with Steve Hoffman, who has written an award-winning memoir called A Season for That: Lost and Found in the Other Southern France. You can find the wines we discussed at Giveaway Three of you are going to win a copy of Steve Hoffman's terrific new book, A Season for That: Lost and Found in the Other Southern France. To qualify, all you have to do is email me at and let me know that you’ve posted a review of the podcast. I’ll choose three people randomly from those who contact me. Good luck! Highlights What do tax preparation and writing have in common? What inspired Steve to write about the Languedoc, which he refers to as the other Southern France? What were the major hurdles to getting A Season for That published? How did Steve shift from an article to a book mindset? What helped Steve find the balance between writing beautifully and the need to move the story forward? What important lessons did Steve learn from his editor, respected cookbook author Francis Lam? What was it like to move across the world with two young children? Are there insights about French parenting and family life that Steve continues to apply? How did Steve choose the specific village he wanted to live in? How do vulnerability and curiosity help with cultural immersion? Key Takeaways Steve says that we’re often sold the idea that our lives are boring and that we need relief from our lives. He believes in leading a life that doesn't require evacuation. That your life itself, if you are careful about it and a little bit intentional about it, can be the thing that you want to dive into every day. Steve mentions Thanksgiving as one of the very few occasions where he and his family commit to slowing down and making conversation around the table, and a great meal. There was something about the French willingness to let conversation be the point and a way of passing time that was really refreshing. Steve settled in 2012 as a family for an extended fall semester in the Languedoc region, which he refers to as the other southern France, because it is, to some extent, the poor cousin of what most people think of as southern France, primarily Provence and the Côte d'Azur, the Riviera, which was extensively touristed and a lot of money got brought into that region. Peter Mayle, Princess Grace, and F. Scott Fitzgerald made it a wealthy playground. Languedoc is the portion of Mediterranean France to the west of the Rhone. So the Rhone divides the country in two, east of the Rhone is Provence, and the Riviera west of the Rhone is Languedoc and eventually Roussillon. He had the kinds of experiences he had because they weren't in the grips of a tourist haven. About Steve Hoffman Steve Hoffman is a Minnesota tax preparer and food writer. His writing has won multiple national awards, including the 2019 James Beard M.F.K. Fisher Distinguished Writing Award. He has been published in Food & Wine, The Washington Post, and The Minneapolis Star Tribune, among other publications. He shares one acre on Turtle Lake, in Shoreview, Minnesota, with his wife, Mary Jo, their elderly and entitled puggle, and roughly 80,000 honeybees. To learn more, visit . /episode/index/show/nataliemaclean/id/37602725

347: Does Mozart or Metallica make wine taste better? 07/23/2025

347: Does Mozart or Metallica make wine taste better? How does music, even types you dislike, make wine more enjoyable? Can curated playlists in tasting rooms and wine bars influence how customers drink, eat, and experience wine? What happens when you stop overthinking wine and music and just enjoy? In this episode of the Unreserved Wine Talk podcast, I'm chatting with Susan Lin, a Master of Wine and a Master of Fine Arts in Classical Piano and Musicology. You can find the wines we discussed at Highlights How does a low-pitched, slow-tempo musical piece impact the perceived fruitiness of wine? What does "timbre" mean in musical terms? How do different musical characteristics influence the perception of wine's effervescence? Did the participants’ music preferences correlate with their enjoyment of the wine? What might surprise you about how the wines tasted in silence compared? Why does the influence of sound on our perception tend to go unnoticed? How are some winemakers using music in their wineries? Are there retail applications for Susan’s research into the influence of music on the perception of wine? What would be Susan's ideal live concert and wine pairing scenario? What are some of the possibilities in the future for AI-generated music for wine experiences? Is there an interest in similar research on the intersection between dance and wine perception? What future research areas is Susan considering in terms of music and wine perception? What three objects would Susan display in a museum representing her life and passions? If Susan could share a wine with anyone outside the wine industry, who would it be and why? How can you start being more intentional about exploring sensory experiences with wine and music? Key Takeaways How does music, even types you dislike, make wine more enjoyable? Susan says that in her experiments, the wine that was consistently the worst, least balanced, was the wine tasted without music. Even if somebody said I really didn't like this music, it was a way better wine to them than without music. Even for the wine experts, the wines were much more palatable without music. I think that's why sound can be a very, very powerful thing. Can curated playlists in tasting rooms and wine bars influence how customers drink, eat, and experience wine? Susan has worked with tasting rooms and wine bars to curate their playlists in terms of the experiences that they want their customers to have. You want to have people be a little more relaxed in the morning, but then, you start amping it up for the evening. I put together a complete journey, that sort of sonic seasoning for different expressions of their wines, for big bold red versus for their light, youthful white wines. What happens when you stop overthinking wine and music and just enjoy? Susan says that with the melding of music and wine, there's still so much to learn. Keep trying things. Don't worry about whether it's right or wrong. Just enjoy the experience. Let everything come in sensorially and enjoy that and embrace again the mystery of things. We can't explain everything through data, and that's a good thing. About Susan R. Lin Susan R. Lin is a Master of Wine and a Master of Fine Arts in Classical Piano and Musicology. Susan’s MW research paper ‘Influences of Classical Music on the Sensory Perception of a Brut Non-Vintage Champagne’ and subsequent work on the interaction of music and wine have been featured in Decanter, Food & Wine, GuildSomm, and others. Each of Susan’s creations is rooted in academic research and inspired by a deep respect for the essence of wine and music. To learn more, visit . /episode/index/show/nataliemaclean/id/37517915

346: How Can Music Change the Taste of Your Wine? Susan Lin, MW, Shares Stories and Tips 07/16/2025

346: How Can Music Change the Taste of Your Wine? Susan Lin, MW, Shares Stories and Tips Why might a symphony night pair just as well with your wine as a heavy metal ballad? What is “sonic seasoning” and how can music impact the way we experience the taste of wine? How are sensory experiences like music, taste, and atmosphere all connected? In this episode of the Unreserved Wine Talk podcast, I'm chatting with Susan Lin, a Master of Wine and a Master of Fine Arts in Classical Piano and Musicology. You can find the wines we discussed at Highlights What did Susan's grandfather teach her about fine beverages and hospitality? How did playing piano in hotels as a child shape Susan's perspective on the holistic nature of our sensory experiences? Is there a connection between Susan's backgrounds in tech, music, and wine? When did Susan decide she wanted to dive deeper into the intersection between music and wine? What makes a wine "musical"? How do cross-modal correspondences impact wine tasting? Why was Brut Non-Vintage Champagne Susan’s choice for her research paper? What is "sonic seasoning" in the context of wine and music? What was Susan's most memorable wine and music pairing event? What might surprise you about the intersection between classical music and heavy metal? How did Susan set up her experiment to observe how music affected participants' perceptions of the wine they were tasting? Key Takeaways Susan says she was always encouraging a Bach goth night at the symphony to bring people together. I like to say, whether my Brahms is your Metallica or vice versa, music can make such a difference in what you're feeling. Hence, if you got a glass of wine, what you're tasting in that glass, right? I've actually done a few experiments with heavy metal. People feel a lot of things, and there are ballads in metal. It's not just your typical really assertive sound all the time. It can be really soulful too and I noticed a lot of use of medieval melodies and folk songs in the ballads that are really nice. So not too far of a distance between Brahms and Metallica in that sense. Susan explains that if you're listening to something that might add a little bit of pizzazz here or there to your wine, like seasoning can do. It's more of a fun term, not a scientific term. All classical composers experienced all the emotions and all the feelings that we all do and it comes through in their music. Maybe they can be feeling joyful or melancholy or longing or frustrated or upset, and everything in between. So the nature of the seasoning is that it can run in many, many different ways. Susan observed during her performances how moods of the guests changed depending on what she played. Everything in the sensory world, all of our experiences, are really taken in holistically, right? It's not like, oh, we're just listening to this one thing and that's isolated. Oh, and we're tasting this one thing, we're smelling this one thing, and we're seeing something. It's all together. I knew that it was something special, and knew that it was something that I wanted to learn more about, or just somehow be a part of. And playing the piano in those situations actually was a great way for me to be a part of it. About Susan R. Lin Susan R. Lin is a Master of Wine and a Master of Fine Arts in Classical Piano and Musicology. Susan’s MW research paper ‘Influences of Classical Music on the Sensory Perception of a Brut Non-Vintage Champagne’ and subsequent work on the interaction of music and wine have been featured in Decanter, Food & Wine, GuildSomm, and others. Each of Susan’s creations is rooted in academic research and inspired by a deep respect for the essence of wine and music. To learn more, visit . /episode/index/show/nataliemaclean/id/37424070

345: What Turns A Wine Country Visit Into An Incredibly Memorable Experience? with Amy Wislocki, editor-in-chief of Decanter 07/09/2025

345: What Turns A Wine Country Visit Into An Incredibly Memorable Experience? with Amy Wislocki, editor-in-chief of Decanter What turns a wine country visit into an incredibly memorable experience? What are the hidden perks of off-peak wine travel? How has digital media transformed the way people plan wine travel? In this episode of the Unreserved Wine Talk podcast, I'm chatting with Amy Wislocki, editor-in-chief of Decanter, the world’s most prestigious wine magazine. You can find the wines we discussed at Giveaway Two of you are going to win a copy of her terrific book, The Ultimate Wine Lover's Travel Guide. To qualify, all you have to do is email me at and let me know that you’ve posted a review of the podcast. I’ll choose two people randomly from those who contact me. Highlights What don’t many wine lovers realize about the wine-making history of the country of Georgia? How important is authentic cultural immersion to wine travel? Can wine tourism help preserve cultural heritage in regions recovering from political strife? What’s the association between wineries and wildlife? How and why are many wineries now catering to families? What was Amy’s approach to balancing practical with sharing the romance of the locations in The Ultimate Wine Lover's Travel Guide? What would Amy include in her perfect wine day itinerary? How has COVID-19 impacted wine travel? What are the advantages of travelling to wine regions outside of the peak seasons? Is environmental consciousness changing wine tourism? How has digital media transformed wine travel writing? Has the rise of influencers changed the wine industry? What would Amy add to a new edition of the book? What should you be asking about wine travel? How does Amy want readers to feel after reading The Ultimate Wine Lover's Travel Guide? Which famous figures would Amy want to be able to share a bottle of wine with? Key Takeaways What turns a wine country visit into an incredibly memorable experience? Amy advises to mix it up a bit and not cram too much into the day, because then that becomes too stressful. Probably a bit of planning will help to make it a perfect day. Often you need to book in advance. So maybe just two winery visits, one in the morning, one in the afternoon. Go somewhere for lunch where you can sit outside and just enjoy the beautiful views, get some fresh air. You might be able to hire a bicycle or go for a hike around the vineyards. See a beautiful village that has some nice culture, or architectural churches. What are the hidden perks of off-peak wine travel? Amy says the main thing is that the winemaker might have more time to spend with you. There must be certain times of the year that are really busy, not only in terms of tourists, but in terms of the winemaking. Also you have a higher chance of just being able to get into some of the most sought-after wineries. There might be some wineries that are just fully booked for ages. How has digital media transformed the way people plan wine travel? Amy observes that on social media, you can watch videos and reels of place which inspires people to do more research. So they might be sparked off by something they see on TikTok or Facebook or Instagram, and then they might go to Decanter.com, and read the whole article. So it’s all complementary. About Amy Wislocki Amy has more than 30 years' experience in publishing, and worked at a senior level for leading companies in the consumer, business-to-business and contract publishing arenas, before joining Decanter in October 2000 as Magazine Editor. As well as overseeing content planning and production for the print offering, she has also been involved in developing digital channels, Decanter.com and Decanter Premium. To learn more, visit . /episode/index/show/nataliemaclean/id/37344085

344: The Ultimate Travel Guide for Wine Lovers with Decanter Magazine’s Editor Amy Wislocki 07/02/2025

344: The Ultimate Travel Guide for Wine Lovers with Decanter Magazine’s Editor Amy Wislocki Why does wine taste different when you’ve stood in the vineyard it came from? What's one myth about wine travel that Amy dispels? With Gen Z drinking less wine, how does a 50-year-old wine magazine stay relevant without alienating longtime readers? In this episode of the Unreserved Wine Talk podcast, I'm chatting with Amy Wislocki, editor-in-chief of Decanter, the world’s most prestigious wine magazine. You can find the wines we discussed at Giveaway Two of you are going to win a copy of her terrific book, The Ultimate Wine Lover's Travel Guide. To qualify, all you have to do is email me at and let me know that you’ve posted a review of the podcast. I’ll choose two people randomly from those who contact me. Highlights What was it like to join Decanter magazine as a 27-year-old magazine editor? How did Amy establish her credibility as a young editor? What exciting incident marked one of her press trips to Chile? Which aspects of wine writing are often misunderstood or undervalued? How does Decanter balance engaging Gen Z readers without alienating their long-term readers? Why has Decanter started reviewing low-alcohol wines? What’s made Amy stay at Decanter for 25 years> What's one myth about wine travel that Amy hopes this book dispels? Why is the experience of tasting wine at the vineyard where it’s made so powerful? What are some of Amy’s favourite essays in Why did Amy include South Carolina, which has no vineyards, in her wine travel book? Key Takeaways As Amy observes, anybody who's visited a vineyard will understand that there's no substitute. You will have a different relationship with that wine for the rest of your life. The lucky thing is that wine growing areas are often the most beautiful areas of the world. You can see what type of soil it is like. The climate might be very near to the ocean, with the cooling breezes. So that side of it will really give you a better understanding of why that wine tastes like it does. You see the age of the vines. Also meeting the people behind the wine. It could be a small, family-owned winery, hearing the stories associated with the wine. Drinking them with the food of the place and in that environment, it's an irreplaceable experience. Amy says the main thing is that it has to be an elitist thing, because I suppose wine in general has the elitist kind of associations. And I think it's just getting across that, you don't have to have tons of money and only drink the world's finest wines to enjoy wine travel. It's just becoming much more accessible to everyone, and in so many more regions and countries than it was. Amy explains that it's many things: recognizing moderation as a trend. It's a tricky one to get right, and you don't want to be preaching to people. You don't want people who think I'm buying a wine magazine because I love wine. I don't want to be made to feel guilty for drinking wine. This is my refuge. But it's not about that. It's about recognizing a trend that even among wine lovers, people are trying to kind of think about how and when and where, where they're drinking, how much they're drinking. Obviously, there are some things that Gen Z will want to read about that our more traditional conservative readers might not all be so bothered about, like natural wines. It's all a balance, isn't it? And trying to give something to everybody. About Amy Wislocki Amy has more than 30 years' experience in publishing, and worked at a senior level for leading companies in the consumer, business-to-business and contract publishing arenas, before joining Decanter in October 2000 as Magazine Editor. As well as overseeing content planning and production for the print offering, she has also been involved in developing digital channels, Decanter.com and Decanter Premium. To learn more, visit . /episode/index/show/nataliemaclean/id/37254755

343: What Is Vital About Argentina's Old Vine Malbec and Ontario Wine's Future with Ann Sperling and Peter Gamble? 06/25/2025

343: What Is Vital About Argentina's Old Vine Malbec and Ontario Wine's Future with Ann Sperling and Peter Gamble? What makes old Malbec vines planted in the 1920s so rare and valuable today? Why would a Canadian winemaker head to Mendoza, Argentina, to start a winery? What’s one of the biggest challenges holding back Canadian wine and how can consumers change that? In this episode of the Unreserved Wine Talk podcast, I'm chatting with Ann Sperling & Peter Gamble. You can find the wines we discussed at Highlights What makes Devotion different from other On Seven wines? What inspired Peter to look beyond Canada to Argentina for winemaking? How did he decide on the particular vineyard to purchase? What is massal selection in viticulture? How did Versado end up with such old vines, and how does this show up in the wine? Are there aspects of Malbec that are similar to Pinot? How have Ann and Peter revitalized the Leily Winery? What are the differences and similarities between Leily and On Seven Chardonnays? What would Ann and Peter like their legacies to be in the Canadian wine industry? What are the greatest threats to the Canadian wine industry? Which three figures in the wine industry would Peter invite to a dream dinner party? Key Takeaways In the 1905 to 1925 period in Argentina, winemakers at the time planted the greatest genetic diversity amongst the Malbec vines, because they were still learning about it. Their Versado vineyard reflects that time when genetic diversity was appreciated. We visited a lot of wine regions in the world for the meetings, both fun and a necessity, and one of them was Mendoza and loved the climate - a really interesting climate from the point of view of creating flavors and grapes, and really liked the lifestyle as well. We essentially decided it'd be interesting to do something small there that also gives us a second harvest during New Year's. So we can practice twice as often. That was the driver, the potential quality there. They’ve been talking about this for probably the 40 years that they've been making wine and and they want to figure out how to have lasting consumer engagement. They have a lot of devoted buyers, but they also know kind of the monopoly culture is that, well, if the wine you were looking for today isn't on the shelf, you can buy something else. Promoting the message of buying directly from the wineries, and if you want to try that wine that's made in Nova Scotia or BC, that you actually can order it and have it shipped to your home province. Those interprovincial trade barriers aren't real. There's lots of wine shipping that's taking place already. Just get on your computer like you do with so many other products that you buy and buy online. About Ann Sperling & Peter Gamble Often referred to as the “power couple” of the Canadian wine industry, Peter Gamble and Ann Sperling have long pursued the pinnacles of wine quality in Canadian vineyards and wineries. Following her upbringing on her family’s Okanagan Valley vineyard, Ann turned to the soil for the character and complexity of her wines. Acknowledged as a Canadian pioneer of organic and biodynamic viticulture, ‘terroir’ was at the centre of her philosophy and she is renowned for her head winemaking roles at Malivoire, Southbrook, and Sperling Vineyards. Peter, a lifetime wine industry professional, has worked alongside Canada’s most passionate winemakers to achieve greater heights with our finest appellation wines. Since 2000, Peter has provided expertise in ultra-premium winemaking operations, including: Stratus, Ravine, Benjamin Bridge and Lightfoot & Wolfville. With the purchase of a top-flight ancient Malbec planting in Mendoza, Argentina, in 2008, Ann and Peter broadened their winemaking activities, but Niagara remains their cherished home base. Current focus is on these Niagara projects: On Seven, Lailey and Stonebridge Vineyards and Dobbin Estate. To learn more, visit . /episode/index/show/nataliemaclean/id/37145265

342: How is Niagara-on-the-Lake's On Seven Winery Making Montrachet-Style Chardonnay? with Ann Sperling and Peter Gamble 06/18/2025

342: How is Niagara-on-the-Lake's On Seven Winery Making Montrachet-Style Chardonnay? with Ann Sperling and Peter Gamble What were the key challenges and breakthroughs that shaped the BC and Ontario wine industries in the 1980s and 90s? What makes or breaks a new wine project, and why is finding the right vineyard often the most time-consuming step? What made Peter believe that Niagara-on-the-Lake could produce exceptional Chardonnay? In this episode of the Unreserved Wine Talk podcast, I'm chatting with Ann Sperling & Peter Gamble. You can find the wines we discussed at Highlights What was Ann’s best memory from growing up on the farm? When did Ann and Peter know that they wanted to work in the wine industry? How did Ann and Peter meet? What was the first bottle of wine Ann and Peter shared? How do Ann and Peter navigate their interwoven personal and professional lives? How do they negotiate professional disagreements, and who chooses the wine for dinner? What were the major challenges and opportunities in the BC and Ontario wine industry in the 1980s and 90s? In the early days, how did Peter envision the future of Ontario wines? What are some of the reasons certain vintages almost didn't make it into the bottle? What do you look for when considering a new project? What makes Ann and Peter different from the stereotypical flying winemakers? What were the signs that Niagara-on-the-Lake could produce exceptional Chardonnay? How has working on a small, focused vineyard impacted Ann and Peter’s winemaking choices? Why must you suffer to make top-notch wines? Key Takeaways It was in the early 80s in BC and maybe slightly before that in Ontario, that estate wineries became a thing. Prior to that, that meant there were a few really large wineries, not really making estate or single vineyards. Vineyards were a source of bulk wine for the most part. The hunt for the vineyard became a very important one. We looked at over 230 vineyards before we found one. I think everyone there was on the verge of giving up on this, thinking “Well, they're not really going to buy anything.” Because we'd get it to a certain stage, then we do soil analysis, and we weren't quite happy, or we talked to people who had made wine from the vineyard or something would come up, and we just wouldn't quite be where we wanted to be with the quality of the vineyard. I often work on the basis of paradigms, where I'll take a look at a wine sold throughout the world and say, you know, I think this could be done really well in this area. You know what it is you might be able to accomplish within the parameters that you have - the obvious things, the terroir, the exposures to soils, the temperatures in general. About Ann Sperling & Peter Gamble Often referred to as the “power couple” of the Canadian wine industry, Peter Gamble and Ann Sperling have long pursued the pinnacles of wine quality in Canadian vineyards and wineries. Following her upbringing on her family’s Okanagan Valley vineyard, Ann turned to the soil for the character and complexity of her wines. Acknowledged as a Canadian pioneer of organic and biodynamic viticulture, ‘terroir’ was at the centre of her philosophy and she is renowned for her head winemaking roles at Malivoire, Southbrook, and Sperling Vineyards. Peter, a lifetime wine industry professional, has worked alongside Canada’s most passionate winemakers to achieve greater heights with our finest appellation wines. Since 2000, Peter has provided expertise in ultra-premium winemaking operations, including: Stratus, Ravine, Benjamin Bridge and Lightfoot & Wolfville. With the purchase of a top-flight ancient Malbec planting in Mendoza, Argentina, in 2008, Ann and Peter broadened their winemaking activities, but Niagara remains their cherished home base. Current focus is on these Niagara projects: On Seven, Lailey and Stonebridge Vineyards and Dobbin Estate. To learn more, visit . /episode/index/show/nataliemaclean/id/37049920

341: Is A $400 Wine Really 10 Times Better Than a $40 One? Do Wine Labels and Glassware Matter More Than You Think? 06/11/2025

341: Is A $400 Wine Really 10 Times Better Than a $40 One? Do Wine Labels and Glassware Matter More Than You Think? Is a $400 wine really ten times better than a $40 one? Does the right glass really improve your wine and is it worth it when the size makes you look ridiculous? Why do wine labels matter and should the label’s look be part of every wine review? In this episode of the Unreserved Wine Talk podcast, I'm chatting with Charles Jennings and Paul Keers, co-authors of the hilarious book I Bought It So I’ll Drink It. You can find the wines we discussed at Giveaway Three of you are going to win a copy of their terrific book,, I Bought It So I’ll Drink It. To qualify, all you have to do is email me at and let me know that you’ve posted a review of the podcast. I’ll choose three people randomly from those who contact me. Good luck! You can . Highlights Why do we feel guilty about window shopping when it comes to wine? What's the worst wine gadget or gimmick Paul and Charles have encountered? How did a 1947 Sauterne create a bond between Paul and a French wine seller? What was their most triumphant wine deal discovery? Are there elements that expensive wine delivers, that bargain wines can't? Why are Charles and Paul suspicious of mixed cases of wine? Has the quality and perception of box wines changed? What's the strangest vessel Paul and Charles have drunk wine from? What was it like drinking wine at 10 Downing Street and Lambeth Palace? What was Queen Victoria's tipple like? Why does Charles love drinking on his own? Which current wine trends will we look back on as ridiculous? Which wines would Charles and Paul now pair with their favourite childhood foods? Who would Paul and Charles love to share a bottle of wine with? Why should wine critics write about wine labels in their reviews? Key Takeaways Charles and Paul believe there is a greater experience to be gained from drinking better wine, but that the return for your money plateaus quickly. If you go up from a £10 wine to a £30 wine, you will really notice the difference and have a tremendously greater experience. But then if you multiply that by 10 and go from £40 to £400, the difference in quality isn't that great. If I've got people around for dinner and I sit at the end of the table and everybody else has got normal wine glasses, I look like a complete plonker. And I'd love to sit there, “Oh, it's magnificent.” And they're going to think, what an idiot. So unfortunately, it doesn't get much use. It does enhance the taste of the Bordeaux, there's no doubt about it, but I'm so embarrassed sitting there drinking out of this thing the size of a melon that it really doesn't get much use. Charles and Paul mention wine labels because they think that they are ignored by most wine writers, and they're terribly important for two reasons. Firstly, because they're about the only marketing that most bottles of wine have, because we go into shops and that's all we can see, the labels. And second, if you're setting a table for dinner, you've invested in the table, in the dishware, the cutlery, the glasses to set up this beautiful thing. Why would you put a bottle of wine on the table - however it tastes - if it looks terrible? Wine critics should always say what the label looks like and whether it would look good on the table. About Charles Jennings & Paul Keers Charles Jennings and Paul Keers are award-winning writers based in London, England. Charles and Paul co-authored the wine blog Sediment, described by New Statesman writer and Guardian literary critic Nick Lezard as “the finest wine blog available to humanity.” The blog became the basis for their book, I Bought It So I’ll Drink It. Book-Prize-winning novelist Julian Barnes called it “The funniest wine-book I’ve read in a long time. Not just laugh-aloud funny but snortingly, choke-on-your-cornflakes funny – up there with Kingsley Amis and Jay McInerney.” Their book won the prestigious André Simon Award. To learn more, visit . /episode/index/show/nataliemaclean/id/36948690

340: Why do wine descriptors like cat's pee alienate many wine lovers? Charles Jennings and Paul Keers answer that and more in "I Bought It So I'll Drink It" 06/04/2025

340: Why do wine descriptors like cat's pee alienate many wine lovers? Charles Jennings and Paul Keers answer that and more in "I Bought It So I'll Drink It" How does using everyday metaphors make wine writing more relatable? How has the pressure to be an expert in everything turned simple pleasures into social competition? Does buying your own wine versus getting free samples make you a better wine writer? In this episode of the Unreserved Wine Talk podcast, I'm chatting with Charles Jennings and Paul Keers, co-authors of the hilarious book I Bought It So I’ll Drink It. You can find the wines we discussed at Giveaway Three of you are going to win a copy of their terrific book,, I Bought It So I’ll Drink It. To qualify, all you have to do is email me at and let me know that you’ve posted a review of the podcast. I’ll choose three people randomly from those who contact me. Good luck! You can . Highlights How did Charles and Paul meet? What was the first bottle of wine they shared, and how did they realize they had the same approach to bad wine? What was it like to meet legendary wine critic Oz Clarke? When did Paul and Charles discover their love for writing? What were Charles and Paul's best and worst moments in their writing careers? How did their Sediment blog create a stir with the PR people in the wine industry? Where did the title “I Bought It So I’ll Drink It” come from? Did buying their own wines give them a different perspective than other wine writers who are given promotional bottles? How did the collaborative approach to writing I Bought It So I’ll Drink It work? Which writers have influenced Charles and Paul’s writing? Is the tension between wine snobbery and enjoyment unique to wine? What was the most pretentious wine moment Paul and Charles witnessed? How did Charles and Paul develop their distinctive vocabularies for describing wines? Which overused wine descriptors do they find cringy? What's changed about wine criticism or writing since they published their book? Key Takeaways Charles and Paul explain that they drew their descriptions from real life. There's a tendency in wine writing to use metaphors that you wouldn't necessarily experience. I mean, I've got a cat, but I really wouldn't use the term cat's pee in describing any wine. I don't know what cat's pee actually tastes like. Whereas if I talk about wine smelling of ink, well, people know what ink smells like, and it seemed more appropriate to use ink as an analogy. The authors say that everybody has to be a bit of an expert about everything these days. It’s not just a question of, “Oh, we've been to France, we've gone to Italy, we've made it to the United States,” or something like that. It's how you did it, and where you stayed, and what you did, and what tours you went on, and it's so full of itself. Then it becomes a transaction when talking with friends. As Charles and Paul think the fact that they did buy thei wine is quite fundamental to a difference between Sediment and other wine writing. They had to do the same thing, go out and buy it. Maybe that gave us a slightly different slant on wine buying and drinking as well. About Charles Jennings & Paul Keers Charles Jennings and Paul Keers are award-winning writers based in London, England. Charles and Paul co-authored the wine blog Sediment, described by New Statesman writer and Guardian literary critic Nick Lezard as “the finest wine blog available to humanity.” The blog became the basis for their book, I Bought It So I’ll Drink It. Book-Prize-winning novelist Julian Barnes called it “The funniest wine-book I’ve read in a long time. Not just laugh-aloud funny but snortingly, choke-on-your-cornflakes funny – up there with Kingsley Amis and Jay McInerney.” Their book won the prestigious André Simon Award. To learn more, visit . /episode/index/show/nataliemaclean/id/36845090

339: What Do Wild Orchids Reveal About the Health of a Vineyard and How Does Preschool Turn France Into a Nation of Gourmets? 05/28/2025

339: What Do Wild Orchids Reveal About the Health of a Vineyard and How Does Preschool Turn France Into a Nation of Gourmets? How does biodynamic farming transform a vineyard into a thriving, interconnected ecosystem? What do wild orchids reveal about the health of a vineyard? How do France’s preschool lunches help to create a nation of gourmets? In this episode of the Unreserved Wine Talk podcast, I'm chatting with Caro Feely, author of the terrific memoir Grape Expectations: A Family’s Vineyard Adventure in France. You can find the wines we discussed at Giveaway Three of you are going to win a copy of her terrific book, Grape Adventures. To qualify, all you have to do is email me at and let me know that you’ve posted a review of the podcast. I’ll choose three people randomly from those who contact me. Good luck! Highlights How did Caro’s daughter’s medical emergency shape her perspective on risk? Why did Caro feel like a bad mom in the early years of the winery? How has living in France influenced Caro’s approach to food and wine? When did Caro realize the wine business was becoming financially viable? What are some of the most interesting aspects of biodynamics? What’s the significance of wild orchids in a vineyard? Which wine would Caro pair with her favourite childhood food, marmalade on toast? Why would Caro want to share a bottle of wine with Al Gore? Key Takeaways As Caro explains, often biodynamics is just picked on as a woo woo, but really, it's about listening to your land and being present. Biodynamics is organics, plus. It's essentially three things: It's working with plant and animal-based sprays to keep the vineyard healthy, using the biodynamic calendar to do things at the right moment. It's about listening to what's going on in the sky. We all notice the sun, but all the other bodies in the sky also have an impact. Lunatic comes from the fact that the moon does have an effect on us. The final thing is to think of your farm as a whole farm system as a living thing where everything is connected. We can't just look at the vine on its own, like a unit of production. It is a living thing, and it is a vibrant living environment. Caro says that when they bought the farm in 2005, it was conventionally farmed. They started organic farming and in 2008 the wild orchids came back. The systemic fungicides had worked their way out of the soil. Essentially, our soil health was coming back. The mycorrhizae, the fungi growing symbiotically with the roots of the vine, helps them to extend their network, to get more nutrients. However, mycorrhizae will not be there if you're using systemic fungicides. Caro loves France's respect for food and for taking time to enjoy it. There’s a tradition in the country where everybody, no matter what they do, is somewhat of a gourmet and knows about food and wine. She thinks it does go back to schools with their three-course lunch when they're two and a half at preschool. About Caro Feely Caro Feely is a writer, yoga teacher, wine educator and organic farmer. She leads authentic, personalized and educative wine tours, wine courses, walking tours and yoga retreats near Bordeaux in France. She is a published author, an engaging speaker, a registered Yoga Alliance yoga teacher, a WSET* wine educator, and a professional with many years of workshop, presentation, teaching, and management experience. Caro offers accommodation, tours and yoga at her organic farm in Saussignac. To learn more, visit . /episode/index/show/nataliemaclean/id/36743390

338: What Are 4 Ways That Winemakers Die in Wineries and Why Is It So Dangerous? Caro Feely, Author of Grape Expectations, Has Answers 05/21/2025

338: What Are 4 Ways That Winemakers Die in Wineries and Why Is It So Dangerous? Caro Feely, Author of Grape Expectations, Has Answers What makes vine growing and winemaking so physically demanding? What are the hidden dangers of winemaking that most wine lovers never hear about? Why are some winemakers choosing to label their wines as Vin de France rather than follow strict appellation rules? In this episode of the Unreserved Wine Talk podcast, I'm chatting with Caro Feely You can find the wines we discussed at Giveaway Three of you are going to win a copy of her terrific book, Grape Adventures. To qualify, all you have to do is email me at and let me know that you’ve posted a review of the podcast. I’ll choose three people randomly from those who contact me. Good luck! Highlights How did Oprah Winfrey influence Caro and her husband to follow their dream of owning a vineyard in France? What was behind the decision to leave their corporate jobs for winemaking, which was such a different career? Why did Caro choose Bordeaux and Saussignac in particular? What were the main criteria that Caro and her husband sought when choosing a vineyard? Were there any transferable skills from the corporate IT world that were helpful in running a winery? What was the most surprising hurdle Caro and her husband had to overcome to buy their winery? How does Caro handle the tension between making wines she believes in versus what will pass official approvals or market trends? Why did Chateau Feely want to be classified as Vin De France? How physically demanding is winemaking? What are some of the funniest and most surprising animal-related episodes that have happened at the winery? Key Takeaways As Caro explains it involves heavy machinery, tractors, attaching things to tractors, moving heavy pipes and other equipment around. Even hand picking grapes is a fairly active sport. Removing the vine shoots or suckers at the base of the vine is a big job and backbreaking. They don't want them to grow because they take nutrients from the grapes. Caro says that many wine lovers don't realize how dangerous winemaking is. There are four killers of wine makers. The first one was asphyxiation by CO2. In the fermentation, CO2 is created. If you don't have a way for it to get out of the closed spaces, you're going to get asphyxiated. The second one is falling from height particularly if a little bit of CO2 has escaped and made you a little lightheaded. The next one is machinery, so horrific things like falling into a harvest trailer. Electrocution because you're working with liquids and high electricity. Caro says that almost all of her wines are labelled Vin de France because she felt that so many of the appellation rules were not about the quality of the wine. She wanted to be free of those unnecessary constraints. For example, one biodynamic winemaker got kicked out of the appellation system because he had weeds under his vines. He handpicks his grapes so it actually doesn't matter if they're weeds under the vines. If you machine pick, the machine will kind of suck up the weeds. Caro would much rather have some weeds than have to use synthetic weed killer. Even when it comes to Saint-Émilion Grand Cru Classé and Premier Grand Cru Classé, some growers got more appellation points for having a parking lot for tour guests than they received for being certified organic. About Caro Feely Caro Feely is a writer, yoga teacher, wine educator and organic farmer. She leads authentic, personalized and educative wine tours, wine courses, walking tours and yoga retreats near Bordeaux in France. She is a published author, an engaging speaker, a registered Yoga Alliance yoga teacher, a WSET* wine educator, and a professional with many years of workshop, presentation, teaching, and management experience. Caro offers accommodation, tours and yoga at her organic farm in Saussignac. To learn more, visit . /episode/index/show/nataliemaclean/id/36653380

337: Why do Celebrities, like Brad Pitt, John Legend, Sarah Jessica Parker, Jon Bon Jovi, Cameron Diaz and Kylie Minogue Choose Rosé for Their Brands? 05/14/2025

337: Why do Celebrities, like Brad Pitt, John Legend, Sarah Jessica Parker, Jon Bon Jovi, Cameron Diaz and Kylie Minogue Choose Rosé for Their Brands? Why is Rosé the go-to wine for celebrity-owned brands rather than Chardonnay or Cabernet? Why are the younger generations of wine drinkers choosing Rosé over red? Is the Rosé boom just a trend, or is its popularity here to stay? In this episode of the Unreserved Wine Talk podcast, I'm chatting with Rasmus Emborg & Jens Honoré, who co-published the Rose Revolution. You can find the wines we discussed at Highlights What are the main differences between wines from Domaine Tempier and Domaine Ott? What makes some Rosé wines better for aging than others? How did Gerard Bertrand’s background influence his winemaking style? Which Provençal cuisine dishes pair best with the Rosé wines? Why do so many celebrities who come to the wine world choose to make Rosé? Which celebrity wines are worth buying? How has social media impacted the Rosé Revolution? What does the future look like for Rosé’s popularity? Why have more men started drinking Rosé? Which wine regions should wine lovers visit to immerse themselves in the world of Rosé? Key Takeaways Why is Rosé the go-to wine for celebrity-owned brands rather than Chardonnay or Cabernet? As Rasmus and Jens explain, Rosé is much easier to embrace for a broad audience. Rosé has a lot of lovers, but they don't have any enemies. So you can be a serious musician, a rocker, a pop star, and embrace Rosé. When you're just a celebrity and not a winemaker it's way more bankable and easier to market. We tried a lot of those wines and I'll tell you, some of them are pretty good, big bang for the buck. Brad Pitt, John Legend, Sarah Jessica Parker, Jon Bon Jovi, Cameron Diaz and Kylie Minogue Why are the younger generations of wine drinkers choosing Rosé over red? Rasmus and Jens observe that young people don't drink much red wine, but they drink a lot of white wine and Rosé because it's kind of like a celebratory wine. It's become a wine you kind of gather around. You don't disagree about it. You can’t be talked down to if you don't know the terroir, the grapes etc. If it's endorsed by a rapper or rock music or whatever, it enhances that experience. Is the Rosé boom just a trend or is its popularity here to stay? Rasmus and Jens believe that Rosé has established itself as a third wine category. We’ll still see the quality improve and higher price points. In France, 3 out of 10 bottles are Rosé, globally, it's about one out of 10. They are seeing a trend of Rosé taking market share from red wine whereas white wine is stable. About Rasmus Emborg & Jens Honoré Rasmus Emborg is a journalist who has worked in the media industry for over 25 years. He is the author of Beer Brothers (2019), about twin beer brewers Mikkel Borg-Bjergsø and Jeppe Jarnit-Bjergsø. He and his wife own a small vineyard in Provence. The grapes are mainly used for rosé wine, and the production takes place at a local cooperative. Jens Honoré is a photographer who has worked in the advertising industry for 30 years. In 2018, he published A Place to Dream for SOS Children’s Villages, and in partnership with Jens Vilstrup, he published the book, Farewell to a Black/White World about the UN’s 2015 Sustainable Development Goals. He has also contributed to Building a Dream about LEGO owner Kjeld Kirks Kristiansen’s realization of LEGO House. In 2021, he published The Right to Food about homeless people’s relationship with food. Jens lives in New York and as a wine enthusiast, has followed the trend of increasing enthusiasm for rosé wine with great interest. To learn more, visit . /episode/index/show/nataliemaclean/id/36561445

336: How did Marcel Ott, of Domaines Ott, revolutionize Rosé wine? Rasmus Emborg & Jens Honoré Share the Story in Rosé Revolution 05/07/2025

336: How did Marcel Ott, of Domaines Ott, revolutionize Rosé wine? Rasmus Emborg & Jens Honoré Share the Story in Rosé Revolution How did Rosé get a bad reputation as not being a “real” wine? How did Marcel Ott revolutionize the world of Rosé wine? Why is Grenache a popular grape for making trendy pale Rosés? How do Rosé’s beautiful bottles both help and hurt its reputation? In this episode of the Unreserved Wine Talk podcast, I'm chatting with Rasmus Emborg and Jens Honoré, the author and photographer, respectively, who have published Rosé Revolution. You can find the wines we discussed at Highlights How did Jens and Rasmus develop a love for Rosé? What does Rasmus find most satisfying about owning a vineyard? Why did Jens and Rasmus want to produce their book independently? Why did Jens choose to photograph the winemakers in black and white, using an analog camera? What was the most challenging aspect of writing Rosé Revolution? Why was Marcel Ott’s pioneering decision to treat Rosé as a wine in its own right so radical in 1912? Why did Rosé have such a bad reputation? What makes Grenache such a good grape to make Rosé? Are there benefits to the shape of the iconic Domain Ott bottles? What are some of the wildest bottle Rosé designs Jens found in researching Rosé Revolution? Why does Rasmus believe we’ll see more Rosé being sold in brown bottles in the future? What role do ultra-premium Rosés play in the market? Beyond great quality, what factors have made Whispering Angel so successful? Key Takeaways Rosé wine is made from red wine grapes, and it's the skin that gives color and tannin to the wine. If you let the wine ferment with the skin, you end up with a red wine. Rosé wine was produced as an afterthought, rather than with the intention to make it. This is part of why Rosé has had a bad reputation because it's been considered a byproduct. Marcel Ott was fascinated by Rosé wine because he thought that this was a wine that had the taste of the grapes most precisely. Marcel Ott was the first one to choose the variety of grapes that gave the best Rosé, to position the vineyards in the best possible way to make good Rosé and to choose the harvest time with the ambition to make the best possible Rosé. Grenache is a grape with thin skins and very little pigment so it brings little color to the wine. This is the kind of Rosé wine that is the most trendy these years. It’s pale, dry, crisp wine, what we call the Provence style. But also, Grenache has this natural sweetness that applies well to the Rosé wine category as well. Rosé, with its beautiful colour in a transparent, creatively designed bottle, looks great on the shelves in the liquor store. It looks good on Instagram. And I think this is a part of the popularity of Rosé. At the same time, it's also a reason why the bad reputation of Rosé wine remains with some of the wine establishment. At the same time, it’s much easier to recycle brown glass than clear glass. About Rasmus Emborg & Jens Honoré Rasmus Emborg is a journalist who has worked in the media industry for over 25 years. He is the author of Beer Brothers (2019), about twin beer brewers Mikkel Borg-Bjergsø and Jeppe Jarnit-Bjergsø. He and his wife own a small vineyard in Provence. The grapes are mainly used for rosé wine, and the production takes place at a local cooperative. Jens Honoré is a photographer who has worked in the advertising industry for 30 years. In 2018, he published A Place to Dream for SOS Children’s Villages, and in partnership with Jens Vilstrup, he published the book, Farewell to a Black/White World about the UN’s 2015 Sustainable Development Goals. He has also contributed to Building a Dream about LEGO owner Kjeld Kirks Kristiansen’s realization of LEGO House. In 2021, he published The Right to Food about homeless people’s relationship with food. Jens lives in New York and as a wine enthusiast, has followed the trend of increasing enthusiasm for rosé wine with great interest. To learn more, visit . /episode/index/show/nataliemaclean/id/36465150

335: Why are major Champagne houses, like Taittinger and Pommery, spending millions on English vineyards? 04/30/2025

335: Why are major Champagne houses, like Taittinger and Pommery, spending millions on English vineyards? Why are major Champagne houses, like Taittinger and Pommery, spending millions of dollars to buy and plant vineyards in England? How did Brexit reshape the English wine industry, from barrels to picking grapes? Why does visiting the English wine country feel like uncovering a hidden secret? In this episode of the Unreserved Wine Talk podcast, I'm chatting with Henry Jeffreys, author of Vines in a Cold Climate. You can find the wines we discussed at Giveaway Three of you are going to win a copy of his terrific book, Vines in a Cold Climate. To qualify, all you have to do is email me at and let me know that you’ve posted a review of the podcast. I’ll choose three people randomly from those who contact me. Good luck! Highlights Is England's greatest wine yet to be discovered? What makes Peter Hall of Breaky Bottom such a memorable and inspirational person? What is it like to visit English wine regions as a tourist? How can you make the most out of a trip to London as a wine lover? What was the most surprising historical tidbit about English wine that Henry uncovered while researching? Which significant milestones have signalled the improved quality of English wine in the past 20 years? What makes English winemakers different from those from other regions? If English wine is such a precarious venture, why have champagne houses like Tattinger and Pommery chosen to plant in England? How did Brexit impact English winemakers? What’s the biggest risk to the English wine industry? Key Takeaways Henry observes that Champagne is warming up and the concern is that eventually the grapes might not have enough acidity, so they're hedging their bets. He also thinks they are entrepreneurial. If you could bring your expertise and get it to work and make a great, great wine - which is what they're interested in - then, why not? Brexit had a big impact on the English wine industry. There was a hell of a lot of upheaval, but I think generally the industry has adjusted and worked out how they can bring things in. The cost, obviously, has gone into the wines, and we probably have to pay more. But I think all the problems have already been dealt with. It's all kind of factored in. Southern England, especially in the spring and summer, Henry says, is breathtakingly beautiful in a way that no other country is. There are beautiful little villages and hills and churches. It can be quite incongruous sometimes seeing the vines, especially if on a cold day when you’d expect to see horses and apple trees. Wine tourism is quite in its infancy at the moment, but it’s coming on strongly. A lot of wineries have realized that you can sell tourists wine without anyone taking a cut. So they’re beginning to take it a lot more seriously… have restaurants on site, really good tour guides. The potential is massive because most of the vineyards are within an hour and a half of London. About Henry Jeffreys Henry Jeffreys worked in the wine trade and publishing before becoming a writer. He’s a contributor to Good Food, The Guardian, Harpers Wine & Spirit, and The Spectator, wine columnist for The Critic magazine, and has appeared on radio, TV, and The Rest is History podcast. He won Fortnum & Mason Drink Writer of the Year in 2022 and is the author of four books, including Empire of Booze and Vines in a Cold Climate, which was shortlisted for the James Beard awards and won Fortnum & Mason drink book of the year. Along with Tom Parker Bowles, he hosts the Intoxicating History podcast. He lives in Faversham, Kent, with his wife and two daughters. To learn more, visit . /episode/index/show/nataliemaclean/id/36369190

334: Is chalky soil really the secret to great English wine or just clever marketing? Henry Jeffreys, Author of Vines in a Cold Climate Shares His Stories 04/23/2025

334: Is chalky soil really the secret to great English wine or just clever marketing? Henry Jeffreys, Author of Vines in a Cold Climate Shares His Stories Is chalky soil really the secret to great English wine—or just clever marketing? What makes it so difficult for English wine to break into the North American market? Is it time for a classified system of English wine? In this episode of the Unreserved Wine Talk podcast, I'm chatting with Henry Jeffreys, author of the award-winning book Vines in a Cold Climate. You can find the wines we discussed at Giveaway Three of you are going to win a copy of his terrific book, Vines in a Cold Climate. To qualify, all you have to do is email me at and let me know that you’ve posted a review of the podcast. I’ll choose three people randomly from those who contact me. Good luck! Highlights How did Henry become a wine critic for The Lady, a women's magazine? What was it light to interview wine pioneer Stuart Moss? How did Henry’s skepticism about biodynamics nearly cause a problem with Gérard Bertrand? What inspired Henry to write Empire of Booze? What was the most surprising thing Henry learned while researching the book? How did Henry’s first experience of English wine go? What unusual vineyard experience totally changed his perception? How much wine does England produce? Where are the main wine regions in England? Are the benefits of the chalky soils in certain parts of England overrated? Is it time for a classified system of English wine? Key Takeaways We always hear about the chalk or the White Cliffs of Dover. Do you think that has an influence or is it overrated? Henry thinks it is overrated and it was the story that sold. It was a good marketing angle, and they thought that it was the best place. He thinks almost everything else is more important than whether it's chalk or clay, and once you've got everything else right, then you can argue about that. Henry observes that selling to Canada and the US is quite complicated. If you sell to Japan, you can get just one person to import it. Whereas in North America you have complicated systems by state and province. You need somebody on the ground selling. Plus, Nova Scotia makes a similar style of sparkling wines. California has some pretty good sparkling wines. And then once the English bubblies land in the market, the price is pretty much the same as Champagne. Why would you unless you wanted something quite unusual, right? Henry says that there is now a PDO, or Protected Designation of Origin, a European geographical indication for one county, which is Sussex. But it's really too early for it, because they've only been making quality wine there for 30 years. The appellation contrôlée is, ideally, codifying hundreds of years of tradition. Plus, a lot of producers buy from different counties. So Nyetimber will have vineyards in Kent and Sussex and Hampshire. So that makes a nonsense of it. And also, there's sort of bits of Sussex that are very much like Kent, so you so there's no point drawing a line where the old county barrier is. It's like, it'd be like, sort of cutting the Médoc in half. It doesn't really make any sense. I think the only place where it makes sense is Essex, because you've got the soil. About Henry Jeffreys Henry Jeffreys worked in the wine trade and publishing before becoming a writer. He’s a contributor to Good Food, The Guardian, Harpers Wine & Spirit, and The Spectator, wine columnist for The Critic magazine, and has appeared on radio, TV, and The Rest is History podcast. He won Fortnum & Mason Drink Writer of the Year in 2022 and is the author of four books, including Empire of Booze and Vines in a Cold Climate, which was shortlisted for the James Beard awards and won Fortnum & Mason drink book of the year. Along with Tom Parker Bowles, he hosts the Intoxicating History podcast. He lives in Faversham, Kent, with his wife and two daughters. To learn more, visit . /episode/index/show/nataliemaclean/id/36275300

333: How Can a Vineyard (or Life) Disaster Turn Into a Good Thing? Sally Evans' Life Story is Proof That it Can 04/16/2025

333: How Can a Vineyard (or Life) Disaster Turn Into a Good Thing? Sally Evans' Life Story is Proof That it Can How can a vineyard disaster become an unexpected opportunity to innovate? How does storytelling transform wine marketing? What innovative pairings go beyond red wine and red meat? In this episode of the Unreserved Wine Talk podcast, I'm chatting with Sally Evans, author of the new memoir, Make The Midlife Move: A Practical Guide to Flourish after Fifty. You can find the wines we discussed at Giveaway Three of you are going to win a copy of her terrific new memoir, Make The Midlife Move: A Practical Guide to Flourish after Fifty. To qualify, all you have to do is email me at and let me know that you’ve posted a review of the podcast. I’ll choose three people randomly from those who contact me. Good luck! Highlights Are you ever too old to start over? How do we build resilience as we get older? How did Sally’s harsh initiation with the 2017 frost in Bordeaux shape her approach to winemaking? Why did Sally decide not to pursue organic certification? How did it feel to present Sally’s first wine in 2018 at Bordeaux's En Primeur? Which aspects of the story does Sally hope critics understand beyond what's in the glass? Beyond scores and medals, what forms of recognition have been most meaningful to Sally as a winemaker? What was it like to be sworn into the Confrérie des Gentilshommes de Fronsac? What was the steepest learning curve in selling a physical product like wine? How has Sally found creative ways to market and sell Château George 7? Why should you incorporate storytelling in marketing wine? How did Sally pivot to minimize the negative impact of COVID on the winery? What are some unusual pairings between vegetarian dishes and red wines? How do you know when it's time to move on from something you've built? What goals would Sally like to accomplish before selling the winery? Key Takeaways As Sally shares, she was still living in the southeast of France when the previous owner of her vineyard rang to tell her that the frost had destroyed everything. While now we have barrel rooms and we have thermoregulation, we made a decent wine and that proved the process. That was a good example of how in midlife we can look at something that looks really bad, something that's happened, and actually turn around and make something good out of it. Sally says that when she hosts wine tastings, she always talks about the occasions when they're going to drink the wine: I think there's one thing in marketing where you profile the customer but I think with wine, often it's around the occasion and what you're eating and who's over and so on. That's how we drink wine. We drink it for occasions. Sally observes that when we look at the back of most red wine bottles, especially from Bordeaux, it says drink with red meat: I thought, well, that's not really helpful. I have a very close friend, Wendy Narby, she and I sat down and said, red wine goes fabulously with veggie dishes and so we've done it as a passion project where we talk about how to pair plant-based food with different Bordeaux wines. About Sally Evans After an international corporate career based in Paris and the South of France, Sally Evans completely changed her life in her fifties. She created an independent winery in Bordeaux, completely on her own with no prior experience or knowledge of wine. She threw herself into wine studies, bought a parcel of mature vines with some dilapidated buildings and created a brand-new wine chateau. She now has a boutique winery, Château George 7, in Fronsac on the right bank of Bordeaux. Her wines win high critical acclaim from leading wine critics and publications and are listed in Michelin-starred restaurants and top venues across Europe and the US. Sally has also created a wine tourism destination for tastings and events, winning accolades for its exceptional wine experience. Alongside wine, her other passion is supporting women to follow their dreams. To learn more, visit . /episode/index/show/nataliemaclean/id/36185045

332: Start a Bordeaux Winery and Make The Midlife Move with Sally Evans 04/09/2025

332: Start a Bordeaux Winery and Make The Midlife Move with Sally Evans What’s one of the most challenging aspects of being a new winemaker in Bordeaux, especially if you’re a middle-aged foreigner who is making wine for the first time? How did the Bordeaux sub-region of Fronsac lose its fame after being a region favoured by French royalty? What if the only thing holding you back from a fresh start, a new project or a major life change is you? In this episode of the Unreserved Wine Talk podcast, I'm chatting with Sally Evans, author of the new memoir, Make The Midlife Move: A Practical Guide to Flourish after Fifty. You can find the wines we discussed at Giveaway Three of you are going to win a copy of her terrific new memoir, Make The Midlife Move: A Practical Guide to Flourish after Fifty. To qualify, all you have to do is email me at and let me know that you’ve posted a review of the podcast. I’ll choose three people randomly from those who contact me. Good luck! Highlights Which pivotal moment sparked Sally’s interest in learning more about wine? What was Sally’s career before wine? Why did she decide to transition into a wine career at 52? How is Make The Midlife Move different from other books of the genre? What was the most surprising insight Sally discovered while writing her book? What was the most challenging part of writing Make The Midlife Move? Where is Bordeaux, and specifically Fronsac, geographically located? Why has Fronsac often been overlooked in favour of more well-known regions? What made Sally choose Fronsac when deciding to start winemaking? What’s the story behind Sally’s winery’s name, Château George 7? How did Sally overcome the issue of magnum bottles with no capsules to fit? What was Sally’s most humbling moment in her winemaking career? Which unexpected challenges does Sally wish someone had warned her about in the early days? Why did Sally decide to expand into making white wine? What can you do to manage feelings of impostor syndrome? Key Takeaways What’s one of the most challenging aspects of being a new winemaker in Bordeaux, especially if you’re a middle-aged foreigner who is making wine for the first time? Sally notes that she didn’t realize just how much bureaucracy there was in France with the customs system and appellation rules around winemaking. There's a lot of rules which are good, but, there were so many rules. She also didn't really think through how long it takes to make a wine. So it's quite a long time that you're financing everything before you can actually start earning money. How did the Bordeaux sub-region of Fronsac lose its fame after being a region favoured by French royalty? Fronsac had the first wines that were produced and went up to the Royal Court of Versailles, but as time went by, areas like Saint-Émilion overtook Fronsac in terms of notoriety. When the climate was a little bit cooler as well, some of the wines tended to be a little bit more rustic, maybe not quite as ripe or as elegant as they could be. About Sally Evans After an international corporate career based in Paris and the South of France, Sally Evans completely changed her life in her fifties. She created an independent winery in Bordeaux, completely on her own with no prior experience or knowledge of wine. She threw herself into wine studies, bought a parcel of mature vines with some dilapidated buildings and created a brand-new wine chateau. She now has a boutique winery, Château George 7, in Fronsac on the right bank of Bordeaux. Her wines win high critical acclaim from leading wine critics and publications and are listed in Michelin-starred restaurants and top venues across Europe and the US. Sally has also created a wine tourism destination for tastings and events, winning accolades for its exceptional wine experience. Alongside wine, her other passion is supporting women to follow their dreams. To learn more, visit . /episode/index/show/nataliemaclean/id/36063330

331: How Do Oak and Yeast Magically Transform Wine and Whisky? 04/02/2025

331: How Do Oak and Yeast Magically Transform Wine and Whisky? How does oak aging change wine and whisky flavour, colour and texture? What do glass, gears, and automatons have to do with the invention of distillation? Why is yeast such an essential tool in scientific research and wine production, especially in the face of climate change? In this episode of the Unreserved Wine Talk podcast, I'm chatting with Adam Rogers, author of the New York Times bestseller Proof: The Science of Booze. You can find the wines we discussed at Giveaway One of you is going to win a copy of his terrific new book, Full Spectrum: How the Science of Color Made Us Modern. To qualify, all you have to do is email me at and let me know that you’ve posted a review of the podcast. I’ll choose one person randomly from those who contact me. Good luck! Highlights What are some of the traits that new yeasts are being developed for? Why does sugar deserve the title of most important molecule in the world? How is human saliva used in the production of Chicha, one of the oldest types of alcoholic beverage? What is microbial terroir and how does it affect the flavour profile of fermented drinks? Why does Adam describe distillation as the apotheosis of human life on Earth? How does the process of distillation work? What is the most important thing we can learn from the alchemists? Is the shape of a distillation still important to the process? What's happening to spirits while they’re aging in barrels? Have there been successful innovations to age wine and spirits more quickly? Why do some people lose their sense of smell after a concussion? Key Takeaways When you're drinking whisky, and it's that beautiful amber color, that's all from the wood. It's completely clear when it goes into a barrel and it's brown when it comes out. So color is part of what changes, and all those flavours. In the process of aging, as the temperature goes up and down, the pores in the wood open and close. As they open, the liquid gets drawn into that layer inside of the wood, and then gets pushed back out. So there's this kind of back-and-forth process, which is why so many of the experimental attempts to accelerate the aging process use heat to try to cycle it faster. Distillation was developed in the first two to 300 years of the Common Era. People were starting to transform naturally occurring phenomena into a technology that could exist in a temple or in the home. Distillation is one of those technologies, along with a lot of automatons and the simple machines, gears, screws and the steam engines. Yeasts are a workhorse organism in laboratories because it’s very easy to change their traits and genetics. They share DNA with each other, and when they grow, they mutate very quickly. Generation to generation change. So you can use classic animal or microbial husbandry techniques to change them as well. This can become especially important as climate change changes the regions that are important to wine. About Adam Rogers Adam Rogers is a senior correspondent at Business Insider, where he writes about technology, culture, and the ways they overlap. Prior to joining BI, Adam was a longtime editor and writer at WIRED, where his article “The Science of Why No One Agrees on the Color of This Dress” was the second-most-read thing on the entire internet in 2015. Adam’s WIRED feature story on a mysterious fungus that grows on whisky warehouses won a AAAS/Kavli science journalism award — and led to his 2014 New York Times bestseller Proof: The Science of Booze. Adam is also the author of the 2021 book Full Spectrum: How the Science of Color Made Us Modern. He has also written for Alta, the Atlantic, National Geographic, the New York Times, Slate, and Smithsonian, and may be the only journalist to attend both San Diego Comic-Con and the White House Correspondents Dinner. To learn more, visit . /episode/index/show/nataliemaclean/id/35972520

330: The Surprising Science of Booze and Wine with Adam Rogers 03/26/2025

330: The Surprising Science of Booze and Wine with Adam Rogers How does language about wine impact the way we experience and enjoy wine? How does reporting on alcohol science compare to other scientific topics? Why can yeast be described as a nano-technological machine? In this episode of the Unreserved Wine Talk podcast, I'm chatting with Adam Rogers, author of the New York Times bestseller Proof: The Science of Booze. You can find the wines we discussed at Giveaway One of you is going to win a copy of his terrific new book, Full Spectrum: How the Science of Color Made Us Modern. To qualify, all you have to do is email me at and let me know that you’ve posted a review of the podcast. I’ll choose one person randomly from those who contact me. Good luck! Highlights What was Adam’s experience at a fancy restaurant in Chicago where food critic Jeffrey Steingarten was a fellow patron? How did a New York restaurant experience expose Adam to the wild science of winemaking? Why did Adam nearly have an existential moment while writing about the science of grapes? How does reporting on alcohol science compare to other scientific topics? Which moments did Adam want to capture in the book? What were the most surprising insights Adam uncovered while writing Proof and what was the most difficult part of writing it? Why does Adam describe yeast as a nano-technological machine? Which facts about yeast did Adam find fascinating? What have archaeologists discovered about the role of alcohol in early human civilization? Which cultural approach to alcohol consumption did Adam find most interesting? How do modern brewers and distillers safeguard their yeast? Key Takeaways Adam recounts the story of the couple sitting next to him ordering a dessert wine. The diner asked, “Is that a Vin du Glacier or a noble rot?” The two different ways to make a sweet wine. Just the fact that the diner was informed enough to know that there were these two methods would have a bearing on what he would be tasting. Here was this person operationalizing that interest to make his meal better. He wanted to have more fun. If you're reporting on science, you have the scientists trying to understand something new or reinterpret understanding and then there are people who that's going to affect. With winemaking, you have practitioners who are often not themselves, scientists. So they are craftspeople in a stakeholder role too. Louis Pasteur said I think there is an impossibly small, invisible, living creature that eats sugar and poops alcohol, and so the best chemists in the world at that time looked at that as a hypothesis and said, You're nuts. Nobody knew how inert chemicals could be alive. Nobody knew what the connection was. Those things are enzymes and understanding what enzymes do in a living body, that's what gave rise to biochemistry, and ultimately gave rise to biotechnology. That one insight. About Adam Rogers Adam Rogers is a senior correspondent at Business Insider, where he writes about technology, culture, and the ways they overlap. Prior to joining BI, Adam was a longtime editor and writer at WIRED, where his article “The Science of Why No One Agrees on the Color of This Dress” was the second-most-read thing on the entire internet in 2015. Adam’s WIRED feature story on a mysterious fungus that grows on whisky warehouses won a AAAS/Kavli science journalism award — and led to his 2014 New York Times bestseller Proof: The Science of Booze. Adam is also the author of the 2021 book Full Spectrum: How the Science of Color Made Us Modern. He has also written for Alta, the Atlantic, National Geographic, the New York Times, Slate, and Smithsonian, and may be the only journalist to attend both San Diego Comic-Con and the White House Correspondents Dinner. To learn more, visit . /episode/index/show/nataliemaclean/id/35866025

329: Tuscan White Wines, Vin Santo and Spirited Sangiovese with Susan Keevil 03/19/2025

329: Tuscan White Wines, Vin Santo and Spirited Sangiovese with Susan Keevil What makes Sangiovese a difficult wine to grow and make? Why should you pay attention to the white wines of Tuscany? What do you need to know about Tuscany’s Vin Santo? In this episode of the Unreserved Wine Talk podcast, I'm chatting with Susan Keevil You can find the wines we discussed at Giveaway Two of you are going to win a copy of her terrific book, On Tuscany: From Brunello to Bolgheri, Tales from the Heart of Italy. To qualify, all you have to do is email me at and let me know that you’ve posted a review of the podcast. I’ll choose two people randomly from those who contact me. Good luck! Highlights What are some common mistakes people make when comparing Tuscan wines to those from other regions? What are Super Tuscans and how did they come to be? Why did these rebel wines capture the imagination of the world in the 70s and 80s? What’s the new Super Tuscan counter culture about? Why did Brunello di Montalcino achieve icon status? What makes Sangiovese difficult to grow and why doesn’t it tend to thrive in North America? What motivated Susan to include sections on Tuscan white wines and Vin Santo in the book? How is Vin Santo made and why is there so much variety? What makes Tuscan olive oil so special? How can you best pair Tuscan wines with food? Why would Susan love to be able to share a bottle of wine with Queen Elizabeth II? Key Takeaways Susan notes that Sangiovese is like Pinot Noir in that it likes certain terroir, particular soils, the winds of Tuscany, and it is quite a sensitive grape. You can't overproduce it. It responds differently to different sites and it's not good in every vintage. It has so many parallels with Pinot Noir. They don't taste the same, but they behave the same. Susan likes an underdog story like the white wines of Tuscany, because they're only like 10% of the wines produced, though she believes that the Trebbiano grape is like the evil twin. In the book, Emily O'Hare writes about grapes like Vernaccia, Vermentino and Ansonica that are producing some great wines so we should watch out for them. There's another lovely story about wines of the small island called Giglio. It was raided by the pirate Barbarossa, and he sent all the inhabitants away to be slaves in Constantinople. But he brought back people from a village in Greece, and they bought the grape called Ansonica with them and so those vines are still on the island today. Susan thinks white wines are going to be more important for Tuscany. If you're going to find a comparison, Susan says that Tokaji is a really good one, because it has that bracing acidity that the Italians love as well. But also, you can't generalize with it. It's a 3,000 year-old-wine, and every farm makes a different version. In the past, they used to collect these grapes because they couldn't handle all the olives and all the grapes all at once. So they would leave some of the grapes in the drying lofts, up in the roofs. They would dry, and concentrate, and the sugars would get sweeter. When everything settled in November or March or February, they would make a wine from these beautiful sweet grapes. And they all have their own natural yeast from the air. And they would seed that yeast into the wine, ferment, and then they would lock it up in its barrel and leave it for seven to eight years. It would shrink, it would ferment. It would stop fermenting. And then at the end of that time, they would open the barrel very carefully, and it was something magnificent, but very, very different. Each producer would have their own. About Susan Keevil Susan Keevil is the Editorial Director of Académie du Vin Library, where she has played a pivotal role in establishing and nurturing this esteemed wine publishing house. A former editor of Decanter magazine, she has dedicated her career to the world of wine, from editorial leadership to in-depth exploration of the industry. To learn more, visit . /episode/index/show/nataliemaclean/id/35772925

328: On Tuscany: From Brunello to Bolgheri, Tales from the Heart of Italy with Susan Keevil 03/12/2025

328: On Tuscany: From Brunello to Bolgheri, Tales from the Heart of Italy with Susan Keevil How was Brunello discovered? How did the medieval sharecropping system help to shape Tuscany's wine landscape? What's the origin of the iconic black rooster symbol of Chianti Classico? In this episode of the Unreserved Wine Talk podcast, I'm chatting with Susan Keevil, editor of the beautiful hardcover On Tuscany: From Brunello to Bolgheri, Tales from the Heart of Italy. You can find the wines we discussed at Giveaway Two of you are going to win a copy of her terrific book, On Tuscany: From Brunello to Bolgheri, Tales from the Heart of Italy. To qualify, all you have to do is email me at and let me know that you’ve posted a review of the podcast. I’ll choose two people randomly from those who contact me. Good luck! Highlights What inspired Susan to take on the monumental task of compiling and editing On Tuscany? How is On Tuscany different from other books about the region? What was the most captivating wine story Susan uncovered while working on the book? What was the most surprising insight about Tuscany that Susan discovered while putting together On Tuscany? Why did the timeframe pose the biggest challenge in compiling the book? How did Susan discover and select literary gems about Tuscany from historic writers? Why was it important to Susan to write about the Etruscans? What surprised Susan about the ancient Etruscans’ relationship with wine? How did the medieval sharecropping system help to shape Tuscany's wine landscape? What role did the Medici family play in shaping the wine culture in Tuscany? What was the crisis of Chianti Classico in the 70s and 80s and how did it redefine the future of Tuscan wines? What's the origin of the iconic black rooster symbol of Chianti Classico? Why does Tuscany continue to dominate media and culture when it comes to wine? What’s the history behind the Chianti fiasco? Key Takeaways How was Brunello discovered? Susan says that from 1875 to 1930, the Biondi Santi family hid bottles of brunello bricked up behind a wall. So after the war, they had these wonderful vintages, and they could say, look how it's aged because they didn't know it aged so well at that stage. That was how the discovery of Brunello came about because they brought these cellared wines to feasts and grand occasions with politicians and monarchs. How did the medieval sharecropping system help to shape Tuscany's wine landscape? Susan observes that it made it beautiful to start with, because we're talking about small holdings. Small farmers gave 40% of what they produced to the owner, the feudal lord, but they had to eke out a living too. So they had their plot of vines, their plot of olive groves, and they put up their cypress trees to defend them from the winds. That gave the beauty to the countryside, because it makes it a jigsaw, it gives it texture when you look at the hills. That way of farming has set up the beauty of Tuscany that we know today. But of course, there was a lot of poverty that went alongside it. What's the origin of the iconic black rooster symbol of Chianti Classico? Susan explains that it came from the 14th century when Siena and Florence were warring as to who was going to be the most powerful of those two towns. They had an agreement that they would send out a horse rider - a knight - early one morning, and wherever those two knights met, would be the boundary between Florence and Siena. The Florentine horse rider set off really early, and they got to within 12 miles of Siena. So the black cockerel is all about strength and having the biggest area. About Susan Keevil Susan Keevil is the Editorial Director of Académie du Vin Library, where she has played a pivotal role in establishing and nurturing this esteemed wine publishing house. A former editor of Decanter magazine, she has dedicated her career to the world of wine, from editorial leadership to in-depth exploration of the industry. To learn more, visit . /episode/index/show/nataliemaclean/id/35649480

327: What do Famille Perrin, Torres and Gaja Wines Have in Common that Makes Them Uncommon? Fiona Morrison Goes Behind the Scenes of These Family Businesses 03/05/2025

327: What do Famille Perrin, Torres and Gaja Wines Have in Common that Makes Them Uncommon? Fiona Morrison Goes Behind the Scenes of These Family Businesses What is unique about Famille Perrin in France's approach to running their family wine business? How do traditional wine families differentiate their brands and market their wines in a crowded marketplace? How has the Gaja family of Italy made significant contributions to winemaking and the Piemonte community? What is unique about Famille Perrin in France's approach to running their family wine business? In this episode of the Unreserved Wine Talk podcast, I'm chatting with Fiona Morrison. You can find the wines we discussed at Giveaway Two of you are going to win a copy of her terrific book, 10 Great Wine Families: A Tour Through Europe. To qualify, all you have to do is email me at and let me know that you’ve posted a review of the podcast. I’ll choose two people randomly from those who contact me. Good luck! Highlights How did the Frescobaldi family make a massive impact on the arts in their transition from banking to wine? What were the Frescobaldi family's connections to famous figures like Dante Alighieri and Galileo? How has Angelo Gaja and the Gaja family made significant contributions to winemaking and the Piemonte community? Why is the Liger-Belair family’s vineyard often known as the greatest in the world? What is unique about the Famille Perrin's approach to running their family wine business? How has Álvaro Palacios proven Garnacha’s place as the climate change grape? How do traditional wine families differentiate their brands and market their wines in a crowded marketplace? Do these families view their wines as luxury goods? Key Takeaways How do traditional wine families differentiate their brands and market their wines in a crowded marketplace? Simplicity and being true to their roots are two key factors Fiona points out. The labels have become much cleaner and are much more sober these days than they were in the past. The Torres family of Spain have done huge amounts on climate change and carbon neutrality and regeneration. In fact, they are, once again, this year, the most admired wine brand. I think it's very important to show that you're paying your dues and you're doing research. It shows how much they are rooted in their heritage and their history. How has the Gaja family of Italy made significant contributions to winemaking and the Piemonte community? If you want to go and taste a Gaja, you need to make a contribution of 300 euros to their various charities they support. Piemonte is still quite a poor region, and so they want to give back to the community and to the area what they can. Of course, people who drink Gaya wines, which are very expensive, can afford to give a charity donation. It's quite unusual, but I think it's a good solution for them. What is unique about Famille Perrin in France's approach to running their family wine business? There are seven or eight children from the two brothers, Francois and Jean Pierre. Every single one of them has a job in the winery, with each handling a different aspect of the business. This solidarity between so many children, working together, laughing together, tasting together. This is a blueprint for how to run a family business. About Fiona Morrison MW Fiona Morrison is an international Master of Wine, author, writer and wine merchant who lives in Belgium and Bordeaux and holds both British and Belgian nationalities. She became a Master of Wine in 1994 after studying in America and France. Fiona is married to Jacques Thienpont of Le Pin and currently runs the Thienpont family wine merchant business in Belgium and France. The family owns three estates on Bordeaux's right bank: Le Pin (Pomerol), L'IF (St Emilion) and L'Hêtre (Castillon). Winner of several awards for her writing, including the James Beard Award, her latest book, "10 Great Wine Families", has been published internationally. To learn more, visit . /episode/index/show/nataliemaclean/id/35541340

326: Who Are The 10 Great Families of Wine? Fiona Morrison Gives Us A Tour Through Europe 02/26/2025

326: Who Are The 10 Great Families of Wine? Fiona Morrison Gives Us A Tour Through Europe How do you tame a grape like Merlot which actually has higher sugar and alcohol levels than Cabernet Sauvignon? What’s the little-known history behind the cult wines of Le Pin in Bordeaux that sell for as much as $10,000 a bottle when first released and then go up from there at auction? Why is it an advantage to have many stakeholders in family-owned estates? In this episode of the Unreserved Wine Talk podcast, I'm chatting with Fiona Morrison, author of the terrific book 10 Great Wine Families: A Tour Through Europe. You can find the wines we discussed at Giveaway Two of you are going to win a copy of her terrific book, 10 Great Wine Families: A Tour Through Europe. To qualify, all you have to do is email me at and let me know that you’ve posted a review of the podcast. I’ll choose two people randomly from those who contact me. Good luck! Highlights How did studying literature at the University of Exeter spark Fiona’s interest in the wine industry? How did Fiona meet her husband, Jacques Thienpont of Le Pin? What’s the history behind the renowned Le Pin wines? How would Fiona characterize the 2023 and 2024 vintages of Le Pin? What is it like managing the limited production and high prices of Le Pin? How Le Pin tames Merlot grapes into its highly sought-after wines? What were the challenges Fiona faced in writing about the Thienpont family of which she is a part? How does Fiona's book, 10 Great Wine Families, differ from other books on similar topics? Which aspects of Maurice Healy’s book, Stay With Me Flagons, inspired Fiona’s writing? What are some of the elements that characterize successful multi-generational wine businesses? How did Fiona choose which ten families to profile in her book? Key Takeaways How do you tame a grape like Merlot which actually has higher sugar and alcohol levels than Cabernet Sauvignon? Merlot is a grape that can be very fleshy, Fiona observes. It doesn't like hot weather. It likes to keep its feet wet. If you shade the fruit a bit and let the grapes ripen, this dappled light effect, then you get a lovely balance, and elegant wine. But if you crop strongly and take off the leaves, the wine can get quite vulgar quickly, very sugary, much more jammy. There's much more sugar and alcohol in Merlot than there is in Cabernet, which may surprise some people. So when we tame Merlot, what we do in the cellar is very little pumping over. We use infusions rather than pumping over and soaking the grapes to get the maceration, like when you’ve got your tea bag in your tea. You have to wet the cap so that it doesn't get dry and tannic. But you're just doing that. You're not punching down or anything like that. What’s the little-known history behind the cult wines of Le Pin in Bordeaux that sell for as much as $10,000 a bottle when first released, then go up from there at auction? As Fiona explains, Le Pin means pine tree. The estate was called Chateau du Pin before Jacques bought it in 1979. It's a fairy tale story. He had heard from his uncle, who had their sister estate, Vieux Chateau Certan, that a magical one hectare of land was coming up for sale. And the family thought it was too expensive to buy, so Jacques, who wasn't married at the time, said, well, one hectare, it's a vegetable garden, I think I can manage that myself. He started off very modestly with a barrel borrowed here, a tank borrowed there, and very artisanal winemaking. Then all hell broke loose in a good way with the release of the 1982 vintage which was tasted by top US expert Robert Parker and it became one of Parker's first 100 point wines. And the rest is history. Why is it an advantage to have many stakeholders in family-owned estates? Fiona notes that much of the book is about how you resolve family conflicts in a business and how you prepare the next generation to take over. She says that having lots of shareholders is actually easier than having just one or two heirs, who face a lot of pressure to take over in the business when in fact they may not want to. Whereas, if you've got 120 shareholders, chances are there's at least a few that are actually interested in wine, and will go into it. Lamberto Frescobaldi, who is 30th generation of his family, has instituted a very strict qualifying process for anyone who wants to come into the business. They have to be wine lovers, university-educated and have some business and wine experience. So you can't just be to the manor born. You really do need to have paid your dues before you get into this business. It's not a privileged business. It's probably one of the most complicated businesses, and it's very easy to lose money and it's quite difficult to make money. About Fiona Morrison MW Fiona Morrison is an international Master of Wine, author, writer and wine merchant who lives in Belgium and Bordeaux and holds both British and Belgian nationalities. She became a Master of Wine in 1994 after studying in America and France. Fiona is married to Jacques Thienpont of Le Pin and currently runs the Thienpont family wine merchant business in Belgium and France. The family owns three estates on Bordeaux's right bank: Le Pin (Pomerol), L'IF (St Emilion) and L'Hêtre (Castillon). Winner of several awards for her writing, including the James Beard Award, her latest book, "10 Great Wine Families", has been published internationally. To learn more, visit . /episode/index/show/nataliemaclean/id/35434020

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