Special Ed on Special Ed

Enlightening. Empowering. Supportive. This engaging podcast hosts special education experts to discuss special education topics for special education parents. I would if I could ensure every parent has all the information they need before stepping into their child's IEP meeting. While that may be a lofty goal, I hope this podcast helps you prepare to advocate for your child. If you have a child with disabilities and special education needs, congratulations! You have just become the CEO of your child's education! There are acronyms galore, terms of art that are counter-intuitive, and completely new rules for school. This podcast will provide straightforward information about your rights, information from other professionals, and tips and tricks for working with your school. I'm a special education attorney, parent of 5 children with disabilities, and former special education teacher/administrator. I have seen special education from many angles. In fact, I have ADHD and Dyslexia myself, and I grew up in school systems that didn’t yet know how to identify or remediate these challenges. Each episode aims to build a bridge between knowledge and action, empowering you to become the most effective advocate for your child. Thank you for joining me on this journey.

Harnessing Creativity and Adaptation in Education with Michaell Magrutsche 04/01/2024

Harnessing Creativity and Adaptation in Education with Michaell Magrutsche Shortly after publication, a transcript of this episode will be published on Host: Dana Jonson Guest: Michaell Magrutsche Introduction: A fascinating exploration of creativity and systemic thinking in education, featuring insights from Michaell Magrutsche, an advocate for integrating human-centric approaches within educational systems. Discussion Highlights: The importance of recognizing and nurturing individual uniqueness within educational and systemic frameworks was emphasized, with Michaell sharing insights from his personal experiences as a neurodiverse individual. Michaell advocated for a human-centric approach to education, critiquing traditional systems that prioritize rote learning over creativity and individual strengths. The conversation covered societal constructs like gender and age, advocating for an educational approach that sees beyond these labels to the individual underneath. Michaell's journey highlighted the limitations of traditional education systems in accommodating diverse learning needs and the need for systemic change. Resources: My Hub: The Smart of Art Podcast: LinkedIn: Instagram: Threads: Twitter: YouTube Videos: Facebook My Music: My Books: Call to Action: Spread the Word of the Podcast Share the Episode on Social Media: Utilize your platforms to share the episode or key takeaways. Whether it's Twitter, Facebook, LinkedIn, or Instagram, your share can spark interest and bring this valuable content to a wider audience. Use hashtags like #EducationInnovation, #CreativityInLearning, and #HumanCentricEducation to increase visibility. Discuss the Episode in Online Forums and Communities: Join discussions in relevant online communities, such as educational forums, creativity workshops, and social media groups focused on education reform or personal development. Sharing your insights or how the episode influenced your thoughts can inspire others to listen and engage. Recommend the Podcast to Friends and Colleagues: Word-of-mouth remains a powerful tool for spreading ideas. If you found the content impactful, discuss it with friends, family, and colleagues who have an interest in education, creativity, or personal development. Personal recommendations can encourage others to explore the episode and potentially introduce them to new concepts and perspectives. Note: This episode serves as a call to embrace creativity and individual uniqueness in education, challenging conventional norms and advocating for a more inclusive, adaptive learning environment. /episode/index/show/ntkwdj/id/30599088

Exploring Photobiomodulation for Children with Autism and other Disabilities with Dr. Kyle Daigle 03/18/2024

Exploring Photobiomodulation for Children with Autism and other Disabilities with Dr. Kyle Daigle Soon after publication a transcript will be posted on Host: Dana Jonson Guest: Dr. Kyle Daigle Introduction: This episode of "Special Ed on Special Ed" features Dr. Kyle Daigle, an expert in neurological rehabilitation and child development. Dr. Daigle discusses the fascinating world of photobiomodulation, its impact on neurological disorders, and its application in treating children with disabilities such as ADHD and autism. Memorable Quotes: "Photo bio modulation means changing life with light." ~ Dr. Kyle Daigle, explaining the essence of photobiomodulation during the podcast. "We're not treated from a nutritional deficiency standpoint." ~ Dr. Kyle Daigle, discussing his personal health journey and the shortcomings of traditional medical treatments in addressing nutritional deficiencies. "Different colors have different benefits... Red light therapy is phenomenal for just basically even helping out with sleep." ~ Dr. Kyle Daigle, describing the benefits of red light therapy in the context of therapeutic applications and its impact on various health conditions. "Primitive reflex integration work on myself was completely life-changing." ~ Dr. Kyle Daigle, sharing his personal transformation after integrating primitive reflex work into his own life, highlighting the profound impact it had on him. Discussion Highlights: The significance of light therapy, or photobiomodulation, in neurological rehabilitation. The relationship between light exposure, brain function, and childhood developmental disorders. Dr. Daigle's personal journey from struggling with ADHD and allergies to becoming a pioneering therapist. The critical role of primitive reflexes in child development and their impact on conditions like autism and ADHD. Insights into Dr. Daigle's innovative approach, including the development of NeuroSage, a software that combines therapeutic exercises with engaging video game elements. Specific Resources Mentioned: Books: "Cracking the Code of Autism" by Dr. Kyle Daigle: A guide for parents to understand the neurological aspects of autism and find strategies for support. Websites: Dr. Kyle Daigle's personal website: - A comprehensive resource for information about his work, photobiomodulation, and access to his book and NeuroSage software. : A clinic offering innovative therapies for neurological rehabilitation. Social Media and Online Platforms: & : Dr. Kyle Daigle's active pages for updates and insights. : Dr. Kyle Daigle's channel for educational content. Contact Information: Phone Number for Neuro Solution LLC: +1 337-499-3162 Call to Action: Share the Episode on Social Media: Share this episode link on you social media platforms to spread awareness about the benefits of photobiomodulation and Dr. Daigle's innovative approaches to treating neurological disorders. Leave a Review: Leave a positive review on your podcast platform if you found the episode informative and helpful. Engage with Content Online: Follow Dr. Kyle Daigle on social media, subscribe to his YouTube channel, and visit his website for more information. Engaging with his content online can provide ongoing support and promote the dissemination of valuable resources and information to a broader audience. Note: The conversation delves into the cutting-edge area of neurological therapy, emphasizing the importance of non-traditional approaches to treating complex conditions. Dr. Daigle’s dedication to advancing treatment options offers hope and new possibilities for children and families navigating the challenges of disabilities. /episode/index/show/ntkwdj/id/30389703

Parent Advocacy Insights from School Psychologist and Special Education Director Diana Fannon 03/04/2024

Neurodiversity Unveiled: Beyond the Should Storm of Parenting with Dr. Alison Escalante 02/19/2024

Transforming Parenting Attachment, Neurobiology, and Thriving Children with Dr. Tamara Soles 02/05/2024

Transforming Parenting Attachment, Neurobiology, and Thriving Children with Dr. Tamara Soles Shortly after publication, a TRANSCRIPT of this episode will be added to the show notes on the podcast website. Join host Dana Jonson and Dr. Tamara Soles, a renowned child psychologist and parent coach, for an insightful conversation on "Transforming Parenting - Attachment, Neurobiology, and Thriving Children." Dive into the world of parenting neurodivergent children, the importance of attachment in parenting, and the role of parental self-reflection. Dr. Soles shares her wealth of experience in early childhood mental health, highlighting the impact of attachment and neurobiology on child development. Key quotes from Dr. Soles emphasize understanding neurodiversity and the essence of attachment beyond physical closeness. Listeners are encouraged to explore Dr. Tamara's website for valuable resources. This episode offers a comprehensive understanding of modern parenting techniques, focusing on neurodiversity and psychological child-rearing aspects. Guest: Dr. Tamara Soles (Child Psychologist, Parent Coach, Founder of The Secure Child Center for Families and Children) Host: Dana Jonson Discussion Highlights: Attachment in Parenting: Dr. Tamara discusses attunement and responsiveness in developing secure attachments. Parenting Neurodivergent Children: Strategies for understanding and supporting the unique needs of neurodivergent children. Role of Parental Self-Reflection: Emphasizing parents' need to reflect on their upbringing and emotional responses. Early Childhood Mental Health: Exploring mental health's impact on long-term development in early childhood. Memorable Quotes: "Children are wired differently, and we need to identify their needs for effective parenting." - This quote is from Dr. Tamara Soles, discussing the importance of understanding neurodiversity in children for effective parenting. "Attachment is about connection and responsiveness, not just physical closeness." - This quote, also by Dr. Tamara Soles, addresses common misconceptions about attachment parenting, emphasizing emotional connection and responsiveness. "Our own inner children often come up in our parenting journey." - In this quote, Dr. Tamara Soles speaks about the significance of parental self-reflection in the parenting process. Call to Action: Visit Dr. Tamara's website () for free resources on parenting and supporting neurodivergent children. Other resources: Website Free PDF 4 Hidden Reasons Your Child is Melting Down Instagram LinkedIn Note: This episode offers a comprehensive understanding of parenting techniques that cater to neurodiversity, with Dr. Tamara's expertise providing fresh perspectives on nurturing thriving children. [After Publication Note: A transcript of this episode will be available at] /episode/index/show/ntkwdj/id/29774298

Giftedness and Beyond: Navigating Neurodivergence with Dr. Matt Zakreski 01/22/2024

Giftedness and Beyond: Navigating Neurodivergence with Dr. Matt Zakreski Shortly after publication, a TRANSCRIPT of this episode will be added to the show notes on the podcast website, . Episode Title: Giftedness and Beyond: Navigating Neurodivergence with Dr. Matt Zakreski Guest: Dr. Matt Zakreski Host: Dana Jonson This episode offers a deep dive into understanding and supporting neurodivergent children. Dr. Matt's expertise and empathetic approach make this a must-listen for parents, educators, and anyone interested in neurodiversity. Introduction: Dana Jonson introduces Dr. Matt Zakreski, a passionate advocate for the neurodivergent community. Dr. Matt's unique approach combines personal experiences with professional expertise in psychology. Memorable Quotes: "Labels are powerful. It matters that you're a zebra, not a weird horse." ~ Dr. Matt on the importance of understanding and embracing neurodiversity. "If I ever got the chance to do this work, I wanted to work with kids like me." ~ Dr. Matt discusses his motivation to help neurodivergent children.” "It's like everybody else got the script, but you didn't." ~ Dr. Matt on the challenges neurodivergent individuals face in social settings. "Kids survive, but not all of them do." ~ Dr. Matt highlights the urgent need for appropriate support for neurodivergent children. Discussion Highlights: Performance Cliff: Discussing the challenges gifted children face when academic demands exceed their capabilities. Masking in Neurodiversity: Exploring the concept of neurodivergent individuals hiding their true selves. Educational Strategies: Emphasizing the need for individualized education to cater to neurodivergent students. Dr. Matt's Mission: Co-founder of The Neurodiversity Collective, which offers therapy, IQ testing, coaching, and consulting specifically for the neurodivergent community. Advocates for practical strategies to aid in the development and learning of neurodivergent children. Call to Action: Encouraging listeners to learn more about The Neurodiversity Collective and its services by visiting their website: FLASHBACK: Check out a blast from the past: In this episode I speak with Cheryl Viirand, super-mom and co-founder of , a private special education school in CT designed for 2e children. We discuss the unique challenges and gifts of twice-exceptional (2e) children, exploring strategies for educating them in a way that addresses both their high intellectual capabilities and their individual learning needs. We also delve into the role of neuroplasticity in developing programs tailored to 2e children, highlighting the importance of creating an educational environment that nurtures their gifts while supporting their challenges. /episode/index/show/ntkwdj/id/29565848

Mastering Essential Social Skills: A Guide for Teens and Young Adults with Kirt Manecke 01/21/2024

Mastering Essential Social Skills: A Guide for Teens and Young Adults with Kirt Manecke Episode Show Notes Shortly after publication, a transcript of this episode will be added to the show notes on the podcast website . Topic: Essential Social and Career Skills for Teens in Today's Digital Era This episode delves into crucial social and career skills that teens and young adults must navigate in our highly digitalized world. Kirt Manecke's insights offer invaluable advice on developing these vital competencies. Guest: Kirt Manecke, Award-Winning Author of "Smile & Succeed for Teens: Must-Know People Skills for Today’s Wired World" Host: Dana Jonson Introduction: Dana Jonson introduces Kirt Manecke, an expert in teen social skills development and author of the critically acclaimed guide for improving interpersonal abilities in the digital age. Discussion Highlights: Fundamentals of Social Skills: Kirt discusses the core social skills every teen should master, emphasizing the power of smiling, proper greetings, and the importance of face-to-face communication, even in a digital world. Career Preparedness for Teens: The conversation turns to how teens can apply these social skills to secure and excel in their first jobs, highlighting interviewing techniques, customer service essentials, and the significance of first impressions. Volunteering as a Skills Laboratory: Kirt advocates for volunteering as a practical way for teens to practice and enhance their social skills in a real-world setting, fostering personal growth and community contribution. Adapting to Digital Communication: The nuances of applying traditional social skills in digital platforms and how teens can maintain genuine connections online are explored. Memorable Quotes: "Mastering social skills is your ticket to personal and professional success." - Kirt Manecke on the importance of interpersonal skills. "A smile is the universal language of kindness and confidence." - Kirt on the simplest yet most powerful social skill. "Every interaction is an opportunity to practice and polish your people skills." - Kirt on the importance of everyday engagements. Call to Action: To find Kirt Manecke, visit his website (), where he has more information on his books, online courses, and free resources designed to help teens thrive in social and professional settings. /episode/index/show/ntkwdj/id/28993133

Maximizing Independence for Students with Autism: A conversation with Julie Swanson, The Life Skills Lady 01/19/2024

Maximizing Independence for Students with Autism: A conversation with Julie Swanson, The Life Skills Lady A TRANSCRIPT of this episode will be added to the show notes on the podcast website: shortly after publication. Life skills are the biggest predictor of adult success for individuals with Autism. Yet, many parents and school teams misunderstand the full breadth of life skills, and they often take a back seat in special education planning. We discuss the 3 domains and 10 categories of life skills and their importance to increasing quality of life, how to incorporate life skills into the IEP early, and how to navigate transition and the IDEA (Individuals with Disabilities Education Act). My guest for this episode is Julie Swanson, a.k.a. The Life Skills Lady. She is the parent of an adult with an autism spectrum disorder and a non-attorney special education advocate. Her career as an advocate grew out of her own advocacy efforts for her son. Julie is the founder of , a website devoted to increasing quality of life and independence for students on the autism spectrum. You can follow her @lifeskillslady on all social media platforms. Julie is also the co-author of Your Special Education Rights: What Your School District Isn’t Telling You. You can find the Life Skills Cheat Sheet Julie discusses here: You can find the IEP Discussion Guide for Life Skills here: You can reach out to Julie here: If you liked this episode, share it with a friend and on social and leave a review here: FLASHBACK Go back and listent to the episode, Should they stay or should they go?, where I discuss transition skills with transition specialist, Muncie Kardos, Ph.D., OTR/L, ATP: A TRANSCRIPT of this episode will be added to the show notes on the podcast website: shortly after publication. TRANSCRIPT (not proofread) SUMMARY KEYWORDS skills, child, parents, advocate, alex, disabilities, school district, teach, attorney, kids, autism, iep, school, functional, find, adult, academics, special ed, dana, assessment SPEAKERSJulie Swanson (The Life Skills Lady), Dana Jonson Dana Jonson 00:09 Hello and welcome to Special Ed on special ed. I am your host, Dana Jonson. And I have a wonderful guest for us today. Miss Julie Swanson, who is the life skills lady and she is going to talk to us about her passion project for Life Skills lady. Julie Swanson (The Life Skills Lady) 00:26 The Life Skills lady is all about increasing quality of life and outcomes in autism and other developmental disabilities through life skills beautiful. Dana Jonson 00:37 And that's what we're going to talk about today. But I can't do anything without my disclaimer. So let's hear that first. Information and this podcast is provided for general informational and entertainment purposes only and may not reflect the current law in your jurisdiction at the time you're listening. Nothing in this episode creates an attorney client relationship. Nor is it legal advice. Do not act or refrain from acting on the basis of any information included in or accessible through this episode without seeking appropriate legal or other professional advice on particular facts and circumstances at issue from a lawyer or service provider licensed in your state country or other appropriate licensing jurisdiction. Thank you for being here. Julie. I'm so excited. You're here. Let me tell my audience a little bit about you. Julie Swanson is a parent of an adult with autism spectrum disorder and a non attorney special education advocate. The career as an advocate grew out of her own advocacy efforts for her son, which we're going to talk about a little bit. And she's the founder of life skills. lady.com, which is a website devoted to increasing the quality of life and independence for students on the autism spectrum. You can follow her at Life Skills lady on all social media platforms. And she's also the co author of the very popular book, your special education rights, what your school district isn't telling you, which you can find on Amazon, which is a great reference for parents. And all of this information will be in my show notes. So if you're driving and you can't write anything down, then just go back and read it a little bit later. So Julie, thank you for being here. I would love to start with how this all came to be for you. You're a mother of a child with disabilities. So what was your path that brought you from that to advocacy to the lifeskills? Lady? Julie Swanson (The Life Skills Lady) 02:14 Right. Thank you for having me. You know, my son, Alex, who is an adult, was diagnosed with autism in 1997. Just almost three at that time. Dana Jonson 02:27 That's really early for that time, isn't it? Yes. So Julie Swanson (The Life Skills Lady) 02:30 that was right when I didn't even I barely knew what the word autism was, I had to look it up in a never forget it a set of red encyclopedias down at my laptop, which were from the 1950s. And let's just say I went home and cried for four days. And I had a very dark period, because you do not want to read about autism from a set of 1950s. People don't even know what encyclopedias are if people Dana Jonson 02:57 can't even imagine that being the primary resource anymore. But yeah, that sounds scary, right. Julie Swanson (The Life Skills Lady) 03:03 And so autism was just on the rise at that point. But when he was diagnosed, I felt like I was the only person on earth who had had a child with autism. But as time went on, he went through the purpose of three system and then went into the school system. And I had developed a home program for him before going into the school system out of my basement using the principles of applied behavior analysis. And there were no board certified behavior analysts BCBAs in the state of Connecticut, where I live. So we had to get a BCBAs from Rutgers, which was a big epicenter of applied behavior analysis and such. So I had asked going into the school system, you know, he requires a program and we had evaluations and recommendations from professionals who said, Yes, he requires a program using the principles of applied behavior analysis. And of course, the answer was no school system didn't even know what ABA was or what Dana Jonson 03:59 it be back then they were still considering it a methodology. Right. Right. It wasn't considered scientifically proven. No. Julie Swanson (The Life Skills Lady) 04:05 In fairness, nobody was tooled up back then at the school systems were not tooled up. So why was the second due process case in the state of Connecticut, asking for program using the principles of ABA? Wow, it is a podcast in and of itself to go but was my hearing. But we ultimately prevailed. And the word got out that this woman named Julie Swanson was successful getting an ABA program in her school system. And by now you know, time is going on and the the the incidence of the disorder is on the rise and people started calling me and of course you go through a hearing all the way through you have gone through a boot camp and understanding the IDE a the Individuals with Disabilities Education. So I without knowing it had come to learn the skill set. I really know Ever wanted to have? Yeah, Dana Jonson 05:01 it's true. Because it's not just about knowing the disability. I mean, you are going through, like you said, a boot camp of special education law. And let is important and what isn't important, and not everything that's unfair is illegal, right? So that's right. We're learning everything from scratch. Julie Swanson (The Life Skills Lady) 05:18 I was fortunate enough at the time to be able to stay home with my two kids. But I as time went on, like, Okay, I need to go back to work now. And in my previous lifetime, I had sort of two tracks that I was on. I was intelligent production, and I was in public relations. And I was ready to go back to work. But by this time, so many people are calling me and asking for advice that I was giving out freely and taking a lot of time and energy from me, I thought, I think I have a business. I think this is a need. And you know who the players were at this that time there were only three advocates in the state. Dana Jonson 05:58 Not Alone people. Right. Julie Swanson (The Life Skills Lady) 06:00 We know who they are. Well, Dana Jonson 06:01 and to point out your attorney for your due process hearing was your co author, correct? Absolutely. Julie Swanson (The Life Skills Lady) 06:07 I met attorney Jennifer Laviano because her father represented me. Yes. So yeah. So that's that's how I met Tony Laviano. So anyway, that's how I fell into this. And I've been doing it ever since 20 plus years. Johnson. Dana Jonson 06:25 Wow. That's amazing. That's amazing. Because I think I met you about 20 years ago. I Julie Swanson (The Life Skills Lady) 06:31 Oh, probably. Yeah. Yeah. Dana Jonson 06:35 That's insane. As Alex grew up and went through the different phases, I mean, just because you want your due process hearing and got a placement. Yeah, that wasn't the end of it. Right. It wasn't like no veiling from then on. And eventually he became an adult and no longer under the purview of a school district. Right. So and I remember that transition for you as well, it was very difficult. So yes, let's talk about life skills. Lady, when did that happen to be Julie Swanson (The Life Skills Lady) 07:04 a thank you. And you know, it's, it's an answer that I hope will help people, right. And the whole reason that I started the life skills lady, which by the way, I did over the pandemic, it had been brewing in me for years. But when do we have time doing what we do, I know, I'm not an attorney. But we essentially do a lot of the same thing, a lot of the same stuff, to secure appropriate programming for kids with disabilities in school systems. And obviously, different levels of us will ever be without a job. That's right. I, I'd love to be out of a job. But it would be wonderful, I would be wonderful. So in over the years of doing this, and I work with kids with all disabilities, but I do do a lot of autism, because that just happens to be one of the things that I'm known for, but I do all disabilities. And in working with kids who have autism and other significant developmental disabilities, I have seen this, it's more than a trend. It's a practice, I suppose, for the lack of a better word, where people start thinking about transition and adulthood in what I call the 11th hour now, and it really is too late. Strands transition to adulthood, begins when your child enters the school system. If that's a preschool, it's in preschool, I think that's in the third grade, because many people have different paths, right? So kids come from private schools or whatever, it starts immediately. Because it takes a long time to build up these 10 areas of life skills, and most people think of life skills. In my opinion, I don't think there's ever been a study, but in my own organic research that I've done, people think of life skills as skills you have in the kitchen, and skills you have taken care of yourself with hygiene and dressing and all that stuff, end of story. That is one area of the 10 areas of life skills. And so from the beginning, there's a misunderstanding of what life skills are. And so I just thought that, combined with the very poor statistical outcomes we have for our kids who have neuro diversities, and autism spectrum disorders, and by the way, they're worse than any other of the disabilities. Great. We've got to change this. And we can change it now we're, we still need so much research. Because think about it, all these kids are just becoming adults in the last five or so years, 10 or so years. And so we're in catch up mode to do the research of what it takes to improve these outcomes. But everybody can agree that By increasing life skills, you increase the likelihood of increasing outcomes and quality of life Dana Jonson 10:10 well, and that's we want them to be as independent as adults as possible. And if we wait until they're adults to work on those skills, right, nothing's gonna happen. I heard Peter Gerhart speak once, and he's the best he is. And I and what he said, I've really changed my view. And I got it because I'd worked in a very severe escalation. And he said, When adult men go into a public bathroom, yeah, the environment there is vastly different than an adult woman going into the bathroom, right? We talk to people, we chat out of the blue, you'll comment on someone's shirt or their lipstick with no prompting, right? Because training these young boys to use a public bathroom, women, primarily the teachers are women. And I've recalled having that happen with one of my students, I had to take them to the airport, and we're at a public bathroom, and I couldn't go in. And they were in there with their communication book going up to people and pointing and talking to them. And I remember thinking, Oh, my gosh, this is not okay. Like, thank God, there were there was somebody there who was very kind, and he's like, I'll watch the door you can go in and now that sort of thing, but, but I realized, like, Oh, this isn't appropriate, this is something we have to work on. That kid was 18. So we were going to start then. And so to your point of starting very early, it's things like that, that we're not even contemplating, right, until a later age. Julie Swanson (The Life Skills Lady) 11:37 And then there are barriers within the system of why parents are told that we don't have to teach life skills. I mean, there are a myriad of reasons why you may get pushback as a parent incorporating life skills into VIP early. And let's face it, look, you're in school, primarily. It shouldn't, you know, it's not just primarily, but we're there to learn the curriculum, right? Or if you're in special education, to, to be as close to that curriculum or something. Right, you know, appropriately designed in sync with it. And so there, there's just this thinking of, we're not there for life skills. Right. So I did I answer your question? Well, yes. Dana Jonson 12:19 But I think to your point, aren't we though, because if a child wants to have disabilities, right, right, you're expecting them to learn the skills to interact with adults, you're expecting them to learn the skills to be able to handle a job interview, that's why they have a guidance counselor or their interview for college. So we are providing those life skills to children without disabilities, right. And so to say that a child with disabilities doesn't get that same kind of training, maybe they're not going to college, but they need to know how to interact in a work environment, or in a school environment or further training or whatever environment that is, and also for living purposes, the more independent a child is, the better their living situation will be post high school and post public school. Right? Yeah. Julie Swanson (The Life Skills Lady) 13:10 And you know, in the IDE, A is you know, itself, it says the transition from a federal timeline is by 16, right. And in our state is 14, and every state is different, because you could move that up. But it also says if earlier earlier if the team deems that right, if necessary. And so what I like to try to do is to say to teams know, we need to start it early, earlier. There are things in the system that also probably inadvertently create barriers to parents incorporating the skills earlier. Dana Jonson 13:46 So what are those barriers? What are you looking out for? Julie Swanson (The Life Skills Lady) 13:50 Right? So one of them the law? Right, right. And right, but the obviously the law is designed to work for us and protect us. But many parents don't even know what it is. Right? So here's the scenario that typically happens. Even when I'm involved, right? You say, well, we'd like, let's, let's say it's, we'd like to teach Susie, how to cook macaroni and cheese. And what the team will say is, but she doesn't need that skill to access the general education curriculum. And why do teens say that? Because the definition of an IEP states and oh, by the way, I'm going to read it. Oh, good. For those who can't Dana Jonson 14:33 see this. I will tell you that Julie is reading from printouts that are on the life skills lady.com So she has some wonderful printouts so go check those out. Julie Swanson (The Life Skills Lady) 14:42 Right? Yes, free. Thank you, Dana. So I am I was so bothered by the answers that are given when asking do incorporate life skills into the IEP earlier. I did this print out so that parents can bring some Think to the team with them and say, Hey, I've got this, this guide here, can I go through with the team, the definition of an IEP, according to the IDA, and this is an abridged version says, is a statement of the child's present levels of academic achievement, and functional performance. There's the big one for life skills, including, and this is what everybody quotes, how the child's disability affects the child's involvement and progress in the general education curriculum. However, Dana, as you know, the statute goes on to say that it is also designed that an IEP is designed to meet each of the child's other educational needs, that result from the child's disability. And it goes on to say, to make progress, in addition to making progress in the general education curriculum, and to participate in extra curricular and non academic activities. Okay, and to be educated and participate with other children with disabilities and non disabled children in the activities. So my point there is and why I put this guide together, is it gives parents something to go in to their team with to say, This is what the actual law says, No, it doesn't have to be just that it's to make involvement and effective child's involvement in progress in the general ed curriculum. Right. Does that make sense? Yeah, Dana Jonson 16:36 there's more to it. And I find that in many of these meetings, there's a lot of language that's left out, for example, I, you know, just popped into my head, least restrictive environment, we always forget the part that says that is appropriate. Right. It's not just automatically the least restrictive. It's the one that's appropriate. And And yes, that we are looking to involve children in the general ed curriculum. But there's more to it. That isn't the only goal of the statute. Julie Swanson (The Life Skills Lady) 17:03 Right. And so the other barrier to that to finish answering your question is, in order to show that your child has deficits in their functional performance, which we will get into after this, you have to assess their functional performance. Right. So there are assessments such as the Vineland, this assesses the 10 areas of adaptive skills. There's the a bass, which is the adaptive behavior assessment scales, there's the Abels, the assessment of basic language and learning skills, the A falls, the assessment of functional living skills for some of our kids on the spectrum, there's the VB map, which the verbal behavior, milestones assessment, I know, there's other words that go with that. I always forget what the map itself stands for, but, but Dana Jonson 17:55 it isn't gonna cut Julie Swanson (The Life Skills Lady) 17:56 it. Right. So when you have your triennial testing, with a lot of our kids with developmental disabilities, they'll miss assessing their adaptive... /episode/index/show/ntkwdj/id/28589573

Demystifying Psychological Evaluations: Insights from Dr. Diana Naddeo 11/28/2023

Demystifying Psychological Evaluations: Insights from Dr. Diana Naddeo Shortly after publication, a TRANSCRIPT of this episode will be added to the show notes on the podcast website . Introduction: Welcome to our enlightening episode, where we delve into the world of psychological evaluations with Dr. Diana Naddeo, a seasoned Licensed Clinical Psychologist. Known for her comprehensive approach to pediatric psychological assessments, Dr. Naddeo integrates emotions, personality, learning, and behavior to offer a holistic understanding of her patients. Her expertise spans psychiatric diagnosis, educational assessment, and a myriad of treatment approaches aimed at crafting effective plans for patients and their families. Guest: Dr. Diana Naddeo - Licensed Clinical Psychologist, Owner of the Center for Assessment and Psychotherapy () Host: Dana Jonson Discussion Highlights: The Importance of Private Educational Evaluations: Dr. Naddeo explains how these evaluations offer insights beyond standard school assessments, focusing on cognitive, academic, social-emotional, and behavioral aspects. Components of Psychological Assessments: An exploration into the various components of a thorough psychological evaluation and how they contribute to understanding a student's needs. Collaborative Planning: Insights into how Dr. Naddeo collaborates with families and schools to create individualized educational plans that leverage each student's strengths. Culturally Sensitive Approaches: Dr. Naddeo's commitment to understanding her patients within their cultural contexts ensures assessments are both meaningful and respectful. Memorable Quotes: "We're not just assessing; we're understanding the whole child within their world." - Dr. Diana Naddeo "Every child's learning journey is unique, and psychological evaluations are key to unlocking their full potential." - Dr. Diana Naddeo "Collaboration with families and schools is not just beneficial; it's essential for creating plans that truly support the child." - Dr. Diana Naddeo Call to Action: Listeners are encouraged to learn more about Dr. Naddeo's work and the transformative power of psychological evaluations by visiting the Center for Assessment and Psychotherapy's website at . Discover resources, insights, and how to schedule a consultation to support your child's educational journey. Note: This episode provides a deep dive into the significance of psychological evaluations, offering invaluable perspectives for parents, educators, and professionals in the field. Join us as Dr. Naddeo shares her expertise, shedding light on these evaluations' critical role in supporting students with disabilities. /episode/index/show/ntkwdj/id/28762598

The Long Term Impact of School Shootings with Deb Del Vecchio-Scully, LPC, NCC, BCN, DCMHS 12/14/2022

Social Skills Training rooted in Applied Behavior Analysis (ABA): a conversation with Justyna Balzar, M.Ed. BCBA LBA (CT) 11/30/2022

Social Skills Training rooted in Applied Behavior Analysis (ABA): a conversation with Justyna Balzar, M.Ed. BCBA LBA (CT) When people hear ABA, they usually think of Autism. However, social skills training is a component of applied behavior analysis (ABA) therapy that can help students with social skills deficits. ABA social skills training offers a set of techniques designed to strengthen an individual’s social skills. Neurological, emotional, and developmental disabilities are often marked by a lack of social intuition. Most people learn social rules and conventions naturally, but they are foreign to individuals with Autism Spectrum Disorders (ASD) and other developmental disabilities. Some students find it impossible to master even seemingly simple social interactions. They are identifying social cues, understanding other people's intentions, and knowing when and how to respond and interact with others in social situations are not innate abilities. Individuals often referred to as 'socially blind' lack inherent skills in interacting with others in social situations. Justyna Balzar, M.Ed. BCBA LBA (CT) joins me today to discuss social skills rooted in ABA. Justyna Balzar is the Co-Founder & CEO of The Hangout Spot (https://www.thehangoutspotllc.com), a center that offers specialized play and social skills instruction based on Applied Behavior Analysis. They offer thoughtfully structured, experiential small-group learning through on-site programs and remote teaching. Justyna has over 15 years of experience working with learners of varying profiles between the ages of 3 and 18 across multiple settings. She received her Assistant Behavior Analyst (BCaBA) certification in 2014 from the Florida Institute of Technology, her Master's in Curriculum and Education in Applied Behavior Analysis from Arizona State University, and her BCBA certification in 2016. Her publications include Behavior Science of the 21st Century blog posts and articles for Autism Parenting Magazine. Driven by a passion for educating others about the wide-reaching applications of ABA, Justyna founded @Behaviorchik, an online persona intended to disseminate behavior analytic resources. She also created the @Theabaadvocacyproject, an initiative spearheaded by The Hangout Spot founders and a fellow BCBA that unifies the advocacy practices of parents and professionals using ABA. You can reach Justyna here: [email protected] You can reach me here: [email protected] FLASHBACK: I’ve spoken with Justyna before! She and Hangout Spot Co-Founder, Meghan Cave, joined me previously to discuss the benefits of teaching social skills through the ABA lens. Check that episode out here! https://ntkwdj.libsyn.com/wanna-hangout-i-know-just-the-spot /episode/index/show/ntkwdj/id/25170186

Social Emotional Learning (SEL) with Dr. Judy Grossman 11/16/2022

Social Emotional Learning (SEL) with Dr. Judy Grossman This is an essential episode because Social Emotional Learning is not just for students with special education needs - everyone needs social-emotional learning skills! Social-Emotional Learning, also called SEL, is an integral part of education and human development. It helps students and adults develop healthy identities, manage emotions, and feel empathy for others. SEL gives students the skills they need to build supportive relationships. Students learn the skills, attitudes, and knowledge surrounding social-emotional learning to make responsible decisions. By establishing trusting and collaborative relationships, rigorous and meaningful curriculum and instruction, and ongoing evaluation, SEL helps schools, families, and communities achieve educational equity and excellence. Through SEL, we can help address various forms of inequality and empower young people and adults to create thriving schools. It's helpful to start with a clear definition of Social-Emotional Learning (SEL). A school-wide SEL program equips students of all ages with skills to achieve their own unique goals. It includes understanding and managing their emotions, nurturing positive relationships, making informed decisions, and feeling empathy. Learning SEL is critical to students’ success, both in and out of the classroom. Dr. Judy Grossman joins me today to discuss what social-emotional learning is, why it is important, and why it is for all students! Dr. Grossman is the Associate Director of the Center for the Developing Child and Family at the Ackerman Institute for the Family. She is also an Adjunct Professor at NYU. Previous academic appointments include Yale School of Medicine and SUNY – Downstate Medical Center. Dr. Grossman has conducted special education policy research for the NYS and NYC Departments of Education and school districts in Fairfield County. She lectures nationally and internationally on the topics of family resilience, mental health consultation, and special education family-centered services. Dr. Grossman is an occupational therapist, public health educator and consultant, and she maintains a private practice in couples and family therapy, specializing in neurodiverse children. She is also a member of the Smart Kids with LD Board of Directors. TRANSCRIPT (not proofread) SUMMARY KEYWORDS child, parents, social emotional learning, children, feelings, piece, school, understand, kids, feel, terms, iep, regulate, grossman, special ed, episode, people, academic, learning, behavior SPEAKERS Judy Grossman, PhD, MSW, Dana Jonson Dana Jonson 00:09 Okay, welcome back to Special Ed on Special Ed, thank you so much for tuning in today. I'm very excited for today's episode, because we have Dr. Judy Grossman, who is the Associate Director of the Center for the Developing Child and Family at the Ackerman interests Institute for the family. I got it all out that time. And we're gonna talk about social emotional learning. So stay tuned, I'm going to run my disclaimer before we say a word. And then we'll jump right into it. The information in this podcast is provided for general informational and entertainment purposes only, and may not reflect the current law in your jurisdiction at the time you're listening. Nothing in this episode creates an attorney client relationship. Nor is it legal advice, do not act or refrain from acting on the basis of any information included and accessible through this episode without seeking appropriate legal or other professional advice on particular facts and circumstances at issue from a lawyer or service provider licensed in your state country or other appropriate licensing jurisdiction. Great, Dr. Grossman, thank you so much for joining me today, I was able to get out your very long title. But I would love it if you would give us a little background on you and why you are the one that I need to have teach me about social emotional learning. Judy Grossman, PhD, MSW 01:19 Okay, first of all, thanks for having me thrilled to be talking to the parents that are listening or whomever actually started my career as an OT. And then went into academia and did some policy research in special ed and became a family therapist. I mean, like I've had many, many different experiences, my area of focus has always been family resilience, even before we we use that term. You know, years ago, we only talked about risks and deficits. But you know, there's been a change a long time coming, and looking at strengths and resilience. And I started a project for family therapists to work, specifically with families with neurodiverse children. And that's because all my experience has taught me that there are layers to the work. So you may be a very competent family therapist, or a maybe an excellent educator and special ed. But you need the whole package. So if you're doing clinical work, that's more than the area of mental health, you have to understand the IEP and the different diagnoses. And on top of interested in family resilience, very, most of my work deals with the parents, because parents are so significant. And situations can be so stressful. And they often search for skills or strategies to help them manage their child's behavior, or even keep themselves regulated when they're getting upset. So social emotional learning, and I'd say it's a term that's been around since the 90s. There's a consortium, researchers, policymakers, educators, clinicians, everybody that's interested in evidence based practice, in terms of social emotional learning. And after the pandemic, or I shouldn't say that we are still in the pandemic, actually, right. We're not sure how it's over yet. I'm actually getting up at COVID. Right now myself. So we are, Dana Jonson 03:45 I think we're over the initial shock of the pandemic, maybe that's what we're thrilled with the initial shock. Judy Grossman, PhD, MSW 03:51 That's the one thing we've learned a couple of things. One is children are struggling with anxiety and depression. And for some even PTSD, this has been very challenging and continues to be very challenging for students. Second thing we learn, which I know, the past 40 plus 50, long time is that parents are so important in supporting their child's total development, but particularly the social emotional development because you're the model. You're the coach. A lot of it has to do with your own development of social emotional skills. And I think that the pandemic has raised awareness that it's so important for schools to partner with parents. Dana Jonson 04:47 Yeah. And I think that's, I mean, that's how I sort of came to it was I had an older child who was neurodiverse, who was not able to identify her own emotions and feelings. And so as a family, we sort of had to learn to talk in this way of explaining ourselves and explaining our emotions and our feelings as they were happening in sort of a way to help educate her. And what I learned was I have three of my five children are have a traumatic background, and they're adopted. And and so but what I learned through this process was, it was significantly benefiting my bio, no typical child. And I mean, I don't know that anyone in my house is neuro neurotypical, but whatever you get, the idea is that these pieces, these pieces that I was putting into place for a specific reason for a specific disability for a specific need, actually applied to everybody in the house. And that's how I started to sort of identify that and now that as you say, the pandemic brought much more awareness to the forefront. And, and I agree with you, I think it's critical that we, as parents understand our role in that. Because when you tell a child you need to be doing this, but you're not doing it yourself. That's always my favorite when parents like Well, I'm definitely getting them into therapy. And I'll say, Well, do you have a therapist, and parents will say, Well, no, I don't need one. Judy Grossman, PhD, MSW 06:21 So you've made a couple of really good points, then that one is, this is universal. Every child and adult will have better live success, if they have good social emotional awareness. They understand can live with our own feelings, they can begin to identify feelings and others and develop empathy. They have good relationships, and most importantly, particularly with neurodiverse children that the child can regulate. So emotional regulation, meaning, you know, that don't have these uncontrollable outbursts, but they can find ways to self soothe, and cope. And another piece of that is CO regulation. So children who aren't able to do that, the parent has to sort of be their prefrontal cortex and help them regulate. So there are a lot of different dimensions to social emotional learning. But the way that the state of the art so to speak is that there are many curriculum, and many of them are endorsed by Castle, which is this consortium for collaborative social, emotional educational learning, and their school wide. So you know, a school might be interested in paying more attention to social emotional learning, and we can talk about what the research says, and more and more schools are adopting different curriculums. So it's helpful for parents to know, you know, what is your curriculum, and social emotional learning? Dana Jonson 08:05 The why would that be important for a parent to understand the specific curriculum? Is it that the language is different depending on the curriculum? Or how does that fit into what's going on at home? Okay, Judy Grossman, PhD, MSW 08:17 so it actually is less about which one, but knowing that they have one. Okay. I think that what goes on at home should complement the language that they're using in school. So there's not a disconnect, in many, many ways to do this. I mean, I often do, training people to do groups with parents and their children to learn these skills. And the earlier the better. I mean, you can, you know, start social emotional learning, with infants. Yeah. In terms of how you help them. And your narrative, your storytelling always includes failing words. So in terms of the steps in social emotional learning, the the, I would say the first step is just labeling feelings, yours, their husbands or partners, the other children in the family, and, you know, take advantage of 24/7 teachable moments. Oh, wow, we see those people there. They're having an argument. They, they look like they're so angry at each other. Are you watching a movie, when he's still kind because he keeps trying to help his friends, so forth and so on. So this is something that can be done, woven into family life. If you have a child and has difficulty labeling feelings, you become curious. And let's say you're watching your child doing homework and they're having a hard time. You can say I'm wondering if you're frustrated. I mean, you're looking frustrated to me, then how are you feeling? So you don't tell the child, how he or she is feeling. But you probe who has a question. And eventually children will be able, there'll be more in touch and be able to name how they feel. And once you have a name, there's a terminal name entertainment, that helps you feel more in control. You know, if they just have this amorphous, let's say you feel anxious, but you don't really know that that's anxiety. Right? You're uncomfortable, you might have bodily signals, and you don't know what they mean. And you might say, every night, my tummy hurts, my tummy hurts. And well, that might be the signal for that child that that means that you're worried that you're just Dana Jonson 10:54 yeah, there's there's that goal responses that it's not, I think that's an important piece, too, is to understand, especially for kids in school, when you see a child, when I see a child who visits the nurse a lot. My first thought is okay, that's anxiety. That's, you know, they're fearful of something, they're worried about something they're escaping from something like that, to me is the first sign right? That that they've removed Judy Grossman, PhD, MSW 11:20 themselves, actually, they, they may want to avoid something, or escape, or they may just be overstimulated. And they don't understand that. They just know they need a break. So that's really the first step. I mean, until someone has some self awareness. And when I work with parents, I always encourage a lot of self reflection, because there's a term meta emotion. how people feel about feelings. Yeah, so so people are not comfortable with angry feelings that are not express them. Some people have a lot of trouble handling when their child seems sad. Feelings are feeling, Dana Jonson 12:08 I think that's our natural response, right? Our child is that I want you to feel better. So I'm just going to immediately try to make you feel better. And Kelly, you you feel better. And that's not a big deal. It's not upsetting. Don't worry about it. But what I'm saying is your feelings don't matter. And that's where you'll have to parent right, that's Judy Grossman, PhD, MSW 12:23 dismissive, which is unethical. Because either say, your feelings don't matter, or this feeling is like a feeling that we want to talk about or notice. Dana Jonson 12:35 And I find for parents, sometimes it's hard to see when it wasn't our intent to harm a child, it's really hard to acknowledge that what we did, because they think in the back of our mind that So the worst thing we could do is harm a child. That's that's like our natural reaction is to not do that. That concept is so overwhelming, that our first response is to be like, no, no, I didn't mean that. So it didn't happen well, Judy Grossman, PhD, MSW 13:01 right? That's right. But the other piece to it is harming a child is a strong word, no parent ever gets it all right all the time. So sometimes it's about the repair. So you know, if you're learning some of these skills yourself about our how to label your carrier feeling and help your child label how he or she was feeling, it's, the parent becomes more skillful. And if you recognize that you did something that retrospectively feel you didn't handle, well, you can be transparent. And say, you know, I was just thinking about what happened this morning. And I'm really sorry, because you are looking so sad, and I didn't really give you a chance to tell me more about it. Would you like to do that? And the time, I'd say yes or no, yeah, the thing is, a very important piece of social emotional learning is this self regulation. And some parents are not well regulated. And it my work, and my work includes research and clinical, academic teaching and so forth. I always start with helping the parent regulate, because if the parent gets triggered by the child's behavior, and then they get upset, and they sort of get aroused and Rabat, that's only gonna create this child's dysregulation, essentially. So no matter what the first step is for the parent, to stay calm. And I think it's very helpful for parents to be explicit about it. Like let's say, you know, you ask your child 10 times to do something, they didn't do it and you're getting annoyed and you know, you're just sort of going up the scale. You can say, you know, yeah, I'm going up the scale or I use the monitors, killing thermometers, but whatever we want to talk about. And I don't want to start yelling, you know, that's not going to help us. So I'm gonna take a minute because I know it helps me, if I take a few deep breaths. So you are you're modeling for the child that you are working on controlling your reactions. So rather than being reactive, you want to be responsive. But you're modeling that. And, you know, you have to have a strategy. One, one part is noticing when you get aroused, or the parent, being able to monitor and knowing what's the point of no return, so to speak, and at some point, forget it. They can't really talk about it in a logical way. But then you have to know what to do. And so, you know, I usually have family activities, where everybody talks about the different ways they control themselves, or calm themselves down, or cope with stress. That's a very, very important piece Dana Jonson 16:13 is a parent understanding themselves and being able to control and regulate? Yeah, and it's, it's, it's, I find almost impossible for me to identify myself, I have to be able to rely on, we have this thing, and I'm very, like, I'm loud. My hands are always going I'm all over the place. And my husband's like, super chill. And so my yelling and his yelling are two different things. I remember he wants raised his voice once, and the kids don't yell at Mommy. And he his response was she yells at me. And they said, Yeah, but that's how she talks. And it was funny for me to be like, Oh, they so differentiate between us, like how I am compared to myself, not how I am compared to him. And I just thought that was fascinating to me that they had picked up on that little bit that they they were aware, they didn't think I was yelling all the time, you know, because there has been my personality. And I just, to me, that was showing me how in tune. Judy Grossman, PhD, MSW 17:19 The kids are. Exactly. Kids are incredibly attuned to the parents, emotional state. And like even toddlers, you could see a toddler, if he sees the mom looking sad, go over, and you know, sort of comfort the parent. Now, they don't even really understand what they're doing. But it's, it's in the air. It's an exquisite skill that children have. And, you know, parents might try to mask it, which is hard. I mean, I'm working with a very depressed mom right now. You know, she's doing her best to function normally. But I can't imagine her children don't pick something up. Dana Jonson 18:11 Yeah. And I hear that a lot too, with parents when they either they have something major to tell their kids, whether it's a divorce, or separation or move or what have you. And they've been waiting to tell them for some reason. And I always ask them, like, did they know? Like, did they know where they have set? And, you know, a lot of the time it's like, oh, they had a sentence, or they were relieved that whatever was was said, because they knew something was coming. You know, like, they're just, I think we as adults like to pretend that we're tricking them, but we're really not. You know, we've we've trained them to tell us what we want to hear. Judy Grossman, PhD, MSW 18:46 Yeah. And, you know, we we want to protect them. Yes. That's just an instinct. Can always, you know, that doesn't mean that you can help them deal with, I often say anxiety is catching. You know, it might be situation where were you just a word about it? And say, you know, yeah, you know, you recognize that, you know, this is normal behavior for mommy, which is different than normal behavior for daddy. And that's fine. People are different. You know, the thing about social emotional, oh, join us. Good question. I'm sorry, I Dana Jonson 19:36 was I was muted. I was just saying I think it's important for them to be able to distinguish between personality and emotion and feeling and my oldest is neurodiverse as nonverbal learning disabilities so so it's very difficult for her to identify any of those social cues that we take for granted. You know, but so to be able to distinguish between them That's your personality, you're fiery, and you're loud versus someone who's fiery and loud as me, or mad or angry or right. however you define it, it's much more complicated than we think. And we still take it for granted. I'm curious, how do you approach families, because sometimes I run into this where families say, they just need to suck it up. They just need to get through, they need to get a tougher skin. And I've been that parent, where I said, Oh, my God, my kids are snowflakes, what is happening, but at the same time, I think about the pain that I experienced, not being able to share my emotions with somebody or not being able... /episode/index/show/ntkwdj/id/25028622

Special Education Due Process Hearing, and a side of IEEs 10/26/2022

Special Education Due Process Hearing, and a side of IEEs [iframe style="border:none" src="//html5-player.libsyn.com/embed/episode/id/24802530/height/100/width//thumbnail/yes/render-playlist/no/theme/custom/tdest_id/2148560/custom-color/61ce70" height="100" width="100%" scrolling="no" allowfullscreen webkitallowfullscreen mozallowfullscreen oallowfullscreen msallowfullscreen] A Due Process Hearing is just one of the dispute resolution options available to parents of children with special education needs. But what is a Due Process Hearing? In special education, Due Process Hearings are not often fully adjudicated, because the issues are resolved through some form of settlement. In fact, I'm pretty sure special education is the only civil right we negotiate away. For those fully adjudicated, parents rarely win. The school has significantly more resources (from their administrative staff to their on call attorney). Parents simply don't have the same legal, financial, and emotional ability to pursue and complete a full due process hearing. And that is why it is so exciting when a parent wins!! Today, we look at due process hearings through the lens of one specific case in Connecticut in which the Parents prevailed. Meredith Braxton is a special education attorney in private practice in Greenwich, CT (bio below), who recently prevailed in an interesting due process hearing right here in Connecticut. We discuss the process, the facts, and the final decision as we break down this special education due process hearing. Meredith C. Braxton, Esq., has been practicing law for 32 years, with a primary focus on special education for 20 years. After spending time in general and business litigation in "big law" in New York City and two smaller Connecticut firms, Meredith started a solo practice and began representing students and parents in their efforts to enforce their civil rights by having their children identified, securing appropriate services, and enforcing their rights to appropriate placements, whether via PPT, negotiation, an administrative due process hearing, or appeal to the federal courts. Her office is in Greenwich. Meredith is also a partner in a companion practice with her colleague Liz Hook (Braxton Hook) to represent families in New York in special education matters and individuals in both Connecticut and New York in education-related civil rights and tort cases as well as employment matters. The full decision can be found . You can find Meredith's contact info . FLASHBACK: If you are curious about other dispute resolution options, you can check out the episodes , , and ! TRANSCRIPT (not proofread) SUMMARY KEYWORDSwitnesses, hearing, decision, officer, felt, parents, child, school district, case, board, argument, student, attorney, people, meredith, thought, footnotes, understand, works, remedy SPEAKERS Meredith Braxton, Esq., Dana Jonson Dana Jonson 00:08 All right. Welcome back to Special Ed on special ed. Thank you for coming back and joining me today. Today I am meeting with Meredith Braxton one of my favorite Special Ed attorneys from Connecticut. Hello, Meredith. Thank you for joining me. Meredith Braxton, Esq. 00:21 Good morning. Dana Jonson 00:22 Good morning, we're going to discuss a case in which Meredith prevailed and discuss the components of a due process hearing, or decision, or pleading or all of that, through this one case, in which Meredith prevailed. But before we say one word, I'm gonna play my disclaimer for you all. The information in this podcast is provided for general informational and entertainment purposes only, and may not reflect the current law in your jurisdiction at the time you're listening. Nothing in this episode, create an attorney client relationship, nor is it legal advice, do not act or refrain from acting on the basis of any information included and accessible through this episode without seeking appropriate legal or other professional advice on particular facts and circumstances at issue from a lawyer or service provider licensed in your state country or other appropriate licensing jurisdiction. All right, Meredith. First of all, congratulations. This is awesome. You're welcome. This is a 54 page decision. There are four issues at the beginning that you raised 176 findings of fact, about 36 conclusions of law. And at the very end, there are nine orders. So that's a little overwhelming. And this is a final decision and order. And I'm a lawyer, and I was so excited when I got this when we all heard that you had prevailed, and we got to read it. And even I'm overwhelmed with 54 pages. So I want to start by, I want to read the actual issues that are listed in the decision. And then I want you to sort of tell us how we got here, if that works. Okay, so the first of the four issues in the final decision in order are, has the board denied the student a free appropriate education or a faith for the previous two years by habitually failing to record the PPT decision in prior written notice? We're going to come back to that one, too. Does the current IEP and placement deny the student faith? Three, should the hearing officer place the student in a residential therapeutic school for students with CP or cerebral palsy? And if necessary, order the board to hire an educational consultant to identify a placement for the student? And for is the student entitled to compensatory education, which would be education to make up for education missed? So those are some pretty loaded issues. Why don't you take us back to the beginning and tell us what happened. Meredith Braxton, Esq. 02:54 First of all, this client is an amazing kid. And I actually spoke to her recently, she's really happy at man's two right now. So great, really thrilled. So I'm really glad we got there, I was actually brought in after the kiss was pretty well set up. There was a lay advocate involved who did a really good job, got some amazing ies, you know, independent educational evaluations from I mean, some of the most qualified people I have ever run across, they were really, super, she also has a super medical team, you know, all of whom, even though some of them were out of state, they weren't totally willing to testify, you know, and give me not very much time, but some time to educate the hearing officer about the student's conditions. Dana Jonson 03:46 And that's an important component is that there's a difference between what is a medical responsibility and an educational responsibility. And as you and I know, a lot of times those responsibilities overlap, correct, making it incredibly difficult to get anyone to provide. Meredith Braxton, Esq. 04:03 Yes, yes, but these medical providers were very well able to connect what was going on with her medically to what was going on with her educationally. So that's amazing. They were really, really helpful. But when this case first came to me, I wanted to file for due process, but I was always until the very end, I was always really concerned about the remedy, right? Because you don't know which hearing officer you're going to get. And if you're not able to put specific remedy out there you just don't know where that hearing officer is going to go with it. So we have not found a placement for this student yet. She's very difficult to place because she has you know, high cognition, but her physical disabilities are profound and urgent Communication Difficulties are profound. So there's just not a lot of places, you know, for that profile. Dana Jonson 05:06 And that's an important piece to understanding what you want. Because we run into that problem a lot with families where they know something's wrong, they know it's not working, but they don't know what will work or what they do want. And that makes it really, really hard for us. Because and I explained this to clients a lot. You could go through a due process, hearing, and win on every single issue, and not get the remedy you wanted, right. And I think the example I use is, you could go into a hearing, asking for an out of district placement, go through the entire hearing, and have the hearing officer say, you are right, the school didn't do anything they should have done. But I think that school can create a program. So I'm going to order them to do that instead of residential, and now you've gone through the entire expense of winning a hearing. Right, and you're not getting any remedy. So that is a very concerning component that I don't think people Meredith Braxton, Esq. 06:05 realize, and I really wasn't willing, you know, I advised my client that I just didn't feel comfortable filing until we had better direction there. So but as time went on, first of all, she was able to eke out a little money to find an ad consultant. And this ad consultant was really great. He was wonderful to work with. And I couldn't stand it anymore. I felt like Greenwich was torturing this, like literally torturing this kid, because, you know, I was on the back end of every email, and phone call, and what they were doing to I couldn't take it anymore. I really just I couldn't take it anymore. So I was like, Okay, we just have to file we have to get this hearing going. And hopefully, by the time we get to the end of the hearing, we will have a remedy in mind and we won't have a placement. We almost got there. Not quite but you know, it turned out okay. But that was a little bit of a, you know, risk that we took, but what was going on was so unacceptable, that that you know, as a moral proposition. Dana Jonson 07:17 Right. Right. And I think that's where school districts don't realize they really messed up is when they one of us off? Yeah, is you know, when one of us is even in the grand scheme of everything we've seen and experienced if we get off, we're like a dog with a bone. Yeah. Meredith Braxton, Esq. 07:34 Yeah. Dana Jonson 07:36 Don't do this. Don't get out of my way. Meredith Braxton, Esq. 07:37 Yeah, yeah. That's how we sort of got to filing the various issues that wound up being presented. Actually, we didn't even really address the faith based on not recording PVT decisions appropriately, even though they did not I was gonna ask Dana Jonson 07:55 you about that. Because now in the in the new IEP, which I've yet to see, in case you're wondering, every school district I'm dealing with is like, yeah, we'll deal with that later. I gotta get back to school right now. So talk to me after Christmas. Meredith Braxton, Esq. 08:11 What I'm what I'm hearing from them is it's taking them six hours to fill out the new form exactly this new Dana Jonson 08:17 convenient form that was going to take less time. But there's no prior written notice in it now. Meredith Braxton, Esq. 08:23 But I thought the prior written notice was supposed to be a separate document, but I have a separate one here. Dana Jonson 08:27 But we haven't seen any documents yet. So I think that this is a really interesting point about the prior written notice. Because what that means in that issue, for those who don't understand is that decisions were made in the IEP meeting that need to be documented in the IEP, because they were either accepted or refused. And when a school does, Meredith Braxton, Esq. 08:51 the more the even more important piece of that is they're supposed to record why they did right. Or important part and the data they relied on to get there, right, which is usually how you can point out how freakin absurd their decision was. Right? Exactly. Because Dana Jonson 09:09 this is my favorite is on I had one where they made the decision based on grades and performance. And the child had modified work and modified grades. So it was like, Well, wait a second. understand all of this. Meredith Braxton, Esq. 09:26 My favorite is where they deny, like a residential placement. And they say it's based on the independent evaluation, you gave them that recommended residential place. Dana Jonson 09:36 Fabulous. Yeah. So it's based on that because we read it. And that's how we read it. And we rejected all of it. Yeah. So actually, that leads me to my next question, which is, you know, after you read the issues, and the piece on why the hearing officer has jurisdiction, we get to your 176 findings of fact. And so the findings of fact, are sort of the meat and potatoes, is that right of the Meredith Braxton, Esq. 10:03 of the you don't you don't get to conclusions of law without those findings of fact, they're the Dana Jonson 10:08 evaluation of your due process demand, right? findings of fact are what you base everything else on. So how does the hearing officer determine what the findings of fact, are? Like? Do you provide those in your brief or your due process demand? Or how does the hearing officer come to determine which facts are actual facts? Meredith Braxton, Esq. 10:29 So the post hearing brief is, is always proposed findings and facts and conclusions of law. And, you know, I can track through this decision the places where he definitely adopted, you know, what I wrote in my brief, but there's a lot of it where he had his own thing going and this particular hearing officer, who unfortunately has been picked off by virtue Moses, since then, he listened so carefully works for birch and Moses now, yeah, they hired him right after his case. Dana Jonson 11:00 Sorry, I can't help but laugh. Meredith Braxton, Esq. 11:01 I know. It's so upsetting. Speaking of absurd, yeah. Anyway, so he listened really carefully to all the witnesses and clearly was focusing on their credibility. And I could tell I was landing the punches, you know, as I was going on, and he was getting them. And the one that was really telling was, you know, there's a principle in examining witnesses for trial lawyers where, you know, if you've got a hospital, first of all, he did go with the school district employees who I called, on my case, were hostile witnesses who I was allowed to ask leading questions. Great. So a lot of our hearing officers won't go there. And it makes it harder, because you have to do direct examination with non leading questions, right, anyway. Dana Jonson 11:52 Right, I mean, that's getting a little in the weeds. But for parents who don't understand that, as attorneys, when we examine a witness, we are bound by certain restrictions, we can't just ask them anything, we can't just suddenly blurt out stuff, right. Like, we have to have a foundation, we have to lead them to a certain place, we have to have demonstrated certain things and have specific items and evidence. And there's a process and if you don't go through the process, you don't get your information across. So one of the ways in which we ask questions is, we ask leading questions all the time in our day, across the day, and you're not allowed to do that, unless they're, especially with your children, especially with your children, right, we're trained to write to ask leading witness. And that's why children shouldn't be witnesses, because you can lead them. So we really have to be cautious about that. And so then it depends on the hearing officer as to what they will allow, and they have a significant amount of leeway in what they will allow or not allow. So it sounds like this hearing officer was really focused on understanding the issues Meredith Braxton, Esq. 12:58 he really was. So one of the principles for examining witnesses from the other side, is, if you land your point, you don't go on to ask like the ultimate question, because then that clues them in that they just messed up, and they will go back and they'll fix it. You instead use that nugget in your argument later on. So that's how we roll I got one of the school district witnesses to say that she made all the decisions in the PPTs. And so I'm sliding away from that, because I'm like, hopefully, like guaranteed, and, of course, returning picked up on Dana Jonson 13:35 that. But whatever. That's kind of a mess. Meredith Braxton, Esq. 13:38 I'm going on, going on to the next thing. And the hearing officer goes, whoa, whoa, whoa. And then he starts questioning her and she doesn't fix it. She doubles down on it. And then I'm cross her attorney tried to save her and she didn't go for it. So she basically got predetermination. That's amazing lack of parental participation. So the hearing officer in this case, he really listened. And he was sort of going through issues in his own head clearly the whole thing about you know, in his findings of fact, in his conclusions of law, he talked a lot about how the school district had the wrong primary disability for this child and that how it drove an inappropriate IEP. Now you and I know that's actually true. Most of the time, if you have the wrong primary disability, it does, to some extent derive. You know, services. Absolutely. Schools always say is no, we give whatever services are needed, no matter what the primary handicap is, blah, blah, blah. I felt like that was just a loser of an argument for me like when I didn't want to spend a lot of time on. I had so many other issues that I thought were really compelling and really important, and that would win the case. It was funny because he kept bringing it up. During the hearing, and I was like, Yeah, you know, and I didn't really press it with witnesses, but he did. You know, he would ask witnesses his own questions, Dana Jonson 15:09 and I find that fascinating about hearings is that the hearing officer can and will just stop everything and be like, I have some follow ups. I need you to clarify that. Yeah. I love it when we hear a hearing officer ask questions, because all that says is, oh, they're listening. Yeah, do get it because not all hearing officers really do get it. Not all of them have been doing what we do our whole lives. And we have to not only explain to them the process, the law but the disability. Meredith Braxton, Esq. 15:35 Right, right. And this one is very low incidence. So it's particularly difficult to convey what it's like, like I said, we had a, especially her physiatrist was really great at describing what it was like to be, I'm allowed to use her name, she doesn't care. Okay. So you know what it was like to be Sydney. And that really got to the hearing officer. So did the videotapes of what was going on on the bus ride. Wow, I thought, did you get those? Well, they're an educational record. They're a four year record. And I was like a dog with a bone. And I did when I filed, I also served an Administrative Code document request. And so at the very beginning of the hearing, when you're sort of like, what housekeeping items do you have, I'm like, I'm asking for these documents. And these videos, they haven't given them to me, I can't do this hearing without it, and I got him to order them to be given to me. So I find Dana Jonson 16:36 that I don't always get everything in a FERPA request. There's never I get everything. Shocking, really. It's shocking, really, but and in my FERPA request, I have a laundry list of things I would like included, and then I just hope I get most of it. You know, videos, and particularly bus videos, I think have to be the hardest things to obtain. That's just my experience. It's just a lot of red tape to get your hands on those videos. So that is huge. Yeah. So you provide your findings of fact, the board... /episode/index/show/ntkwdj/id/24802530

Barriers to Special Education: Special Education Legal Fund 10/13/2022

Barriers to Special Education: Special Education Legal Fund A key component to public education is that it should be FREE! This includes special education. But what if you can't get the special education your child is entitled to? What happens when your school says "no" to you? There are no special education police to force schools to comply or even just tell them they are wrong. Usually, the only way to enforce your rights is to hire back up - an private service provider, non-legal special education advocate, or special education attorney. Being able to hire a special education advocate or attorney, however, is as much a privilege as being able to "evacuate" on a moment's notice. It sounds easy, but it's not easy and it's not free. Especially post(ish)-pandemic, most families do not have the funds required to hire the professional help they need to access their child's "free" rights. Christine Lai is the parent of a child with special education needs who had to fight her school district to get what her child was entitled to. Christine has experienced first hand the strain this puts on already struggling families. That is why Christine founded the Special Education Legal Fund, or SELF. SELF provides grants to parents of children with disabilities to help fund the professional advocacy families need. The grants SELF provides can provide payment towards legal services, a year of non-legal advocacy, or a combination thereof. Today Christine meets with me to discuss why and how families seek out SELF grants, trends in family needs, and the successes they have seen with this program. Maybe you need a SELF organization near you! Want to seek out Christine? You can find her here: You can always message me at [email protected] FLASHBACK: Christine has joined us before! You can check out our last episode together here Transcripts are added shortly after episode is published and can be found at SpecialEd.fm TRANSCRIPT (not proofread) SUMMARY KEYWORDS parents, pandemic, special education, families, attorney, child, school districts, people, support, school, process, absolutely, clients, special ed, advocate, years, law, kids, advocacy, evaluations SPEAKERS Christine Lai, Dana Jonson Dana Jonson 00:08 Today I'm here with Christine Lai. I'm so excited. Thank you for coming back. And joining me at special ed on special ed Christine Lai is the director and founder of the special education legal fund, which I will explain in just a second. Hi, Christine. Thanks for joining me. Hi, Christine Lai 00:24 Dana. I'm so happy to be back. Dana Jonson 00:26 I know I love having you here. Let me play my disclaimer, and then we'll get started. Let's do it. The information in this podcast is provided for general informational and entertainment purposes only, and may not reflect the current law in your jurisdiction at the time you're listening. Nothing in this episode, create an attorney client relationship, nor is it legal advice, do not act or refrain from acting on the basis of any information included in or accessible through this episode without seeking appropriate legal or other professional advice on particular facts and circumstances at issue from a lawyer or service provider license in your state country or other appropriate licensing jurisdiction. So Christine, first, let me explain to people what special legal fund is, I should probably maybe you could do that. Because your background, you're not like a special ed teacher or you don't provide services, right? Christine Lai 01:04 No, I mean, we are, you know, as we've spoken about in the in the past, we are a Grants making organization, we provide grants to families in need, who have children in the special education process. We provide grants to people who need an attorney, we provide grants to families who need an advocate. And we also provide, you know, some informational resources through our parent webinar series, for parents that are just, you know, really dipping their toe in the process and, or are fully immersed in the process and are just trying to figure out, you know, what the next step is, you know, so that's basically what we do, you know, we were founded in 2018, to provide those resources, the grants, the knowledge, the support, since that time, you know, this is our fifth grant cycle this year. And we have been so blessed with the support of attorneys like Dana to have provided grants of over $550,000, to, you know, almost 200 families in 60 school districts across Connecticut, and Westchester County, New York. And that's been a real blessing for us, we've been really thrilled, because those grants, you know, in total, in that time, have yielded over six and a half million dollars in educational improvements for those families, whether you're talking about better support, better evaluations, out placements, transportation, compensatory education, all of those things kind of roll into that big number, we've been really, really pleased to be able to provide that support for families. Dana Jonson 02:33 And we are we in the advocacy world are thrilled that you can provide that support to families, because one of the things I hate about what I do is that families have to have money to access me. And I can apologize for making a living. And I you know, I'm not going to, but I do recognize that that is a pretty strong barrier. And I think that your program allows a lot of us to give help to parents that we otherwise wouldn't have, wouldn't have access to us. And that's a little bit of what I wanted to talk about with you. Because you're dealing with families who don't have the funds don't have the resources. And oftentimes those families don't even know getting an advocate or an attorney is an option. I know sometimes people call my office and we say you should call self and go that process. But as a rule, people don't usually call you and say I'm calling because I can't afford you and I want information. Although when they do I do still talk to them and give them information. So I'm okay with those phone calls. I don't turn those phone calls away. But I was curious. And we've been through a lot since 2018. What kind of trends do you see with families who can't obtain lawyers because I I'm finding post pandemic and I don't think we're post pandemic, but you know what I mean? Yeah, pose the pandemic closures. Yeah, we're seeing that school districts don't have the resources to handle anybody. Yeah. And I'm finding that it's even harder for parents to get anything without some form of representation or support. No, that's 04:06 absolutely right. We as an organization, the support we provide is to families who are below 300% of the federal minimum poverty line, it was important for us to have a little bit of a range in the families that we support, because I realized that you know, for families that are very, very under resourced, there are other resources that exist, you know, like legal aid or, you know, sliding scale advocacy services or whatever. I know that you don't have to be below the poverty line, to not be able to afford an attorney. You know, that is absolutely, you know, 100% the case, this Fund was established for those families who were maxing out their credit cards, really taking their 401k down, you know, like those families are sort of the core of the group that we envisioned when we started the fund. This doesn't really answer your question. Your question is, yeah, have you seen have we seeing changes in the families. And since it's since the pandemic, since we reopened for the pandemic, I mean, the most significant change that we saw, after the pandemic, after, you know, and I want to say this, going back to like October of 2020, we didn't really know what was going on was going to go in New. And I remember that first month, we had had a virtual fundraiser, we weren't sure, if we were still going to be alive. You know, it was a very, you know, sort of difficult time, you know, in the nonprofit world, and obviously, in all worlds, and we had been running before the closure, you know, maybe five or six applications a month, we had traditionally given three grants per month. So, in a good in any given month, you know, we'd see four applications, we'd decline one, we'd see five, we declined to in October of 20 2015, right off the bat 15 1617. And that was kind of when I knew that this had been a real game changer, not only for the education world, the world in general, but specifically for these families. Because what I was seeing, we're not just, you know, and I don't mean to say just this, that's not what I meant to say. But prior to the payment pandemic, we would see a child who had been in the special education system for years was 14 and couldn't read, you know, very, very dire situation, post pandemic, we would see that same child, but that child would have then also been hospitalized one, two or three times, and then dealing with a crippling anxiety and depression and all of the other kind of ancillary comorbidities that come with, yeah, the predominant learning disorder, and the inability of the school to support that learning disorder. So that's really what we saw as the main difference. The other difference that we saw was as as as to your point, the schools are not able to support what they were able to support four years ago. You know, a few years ago, we would say I'd have a family come and they'd say we'd look we're looking for an outplacement, and I'd say, Okay, why don't you go back and get an IEE? You know, you just had your triennial, you just had an evaluation, go to ask the district for an IE get an independent, neuro Psych. And then after you've gotten that, come back to me, and we will go through this process. And you can go through the outplacement and they would be like, right, and they would go and do that. And they would come back to me and the process would proceed. Now. I don't know of any school district that's like, yeah, here's your IE, you know, go ahead. Yeah. Yeah, fighting everything. And that is, that is a real change that we've had to deal with over the last, you know, especially the last couple of years is when that's Dana Jonson 07:40 yeah, that's what we're seeing too. And, and the I II, for anyone listening who doesn't know, we just I just talked about that my last episode is an independent educational evaluation. And for any matter to move forward, you know, the whole IEP, 07:54 it is the linchpin, it is so Lynch is the linchpin, nothing happens without it, you know, exactly. It's like the roadmap, you know, Dana Jonson 08:03 everything from the from everything stems from the event. And as you said, you know, parents have a right to ask for it. They don't have an automatic right to get it. Yes, that's right. And I am finding that school districts who historically would have always granted it 08:23 exact are now fighting them. Exactly. And that's as well. Yeah. And it's not, because it's the you know, as you know, yeah. It's like one of the most important protections that parents have, yeah, process, it is a second opinion, it is so important. And, and if Dana Jonson 08:41 the school is not, if the school is seeing one child, and the family is seeing another child, how are you going, if reconcile is gonna evaluate that child, but that child is behaving differently in school than they are at home? You know, it's not giving you the information that you need. Absolutely. To program. And, you know, and we also see, and I say this all the time post pandemic, every case in our office is mental health and or reading. Yeah, those are both that's, that's, that's exactly. That's what one stem from the other? Yeah, you know, and, and so those evaluations are critical. And we are finding them. I'm a little worried for special education, because I'm finding them being ignored more and more and more, you know, we get the ice in the school district looks at it and says, This is all great new information that we already had were already addressing. Right, right. And you know, it's not successful. Do you find that when parents come to you? Are they coming to you having like, exhausted all their options, or are they coming to you because they don't understand or know what their options 09:52 are? It's a combination. I would say that the number one reason for a family or parent Come to us is if they feel that trust has been broken with the with the school, it doesn't have to do it can have happened over the course of eight or nine years, you can have happened over the course of eight or nine months. But really the common link is that broken faith is that broken trust. And, and that's really I mean, I could see that in a, in a parent of a four year old, and a parent of a 14 year old, same exact situation. And the knowledge of the system, on the parent level, you know, can vary a lot in that. But that isn't really the driving force of what brings a parent to call us. What it really is, is they feel like trust is broken, and they have nowhere else to go. Dana Jonson 10:48 Yeah, that is a very hard thing to fix. That is really is a very difficult thing to fix. And one of the things that I find does fix that are outside evaluations. And that's, it's really hard to get right now. It is really hard. I 11:04 mean, for years, you know, I couldn't drive by my son's elementary school, I would take a different road, you know, because there were so much, you know, anxiety. So, yeah, in that, in that situation, it was really difficult. So I get it, you know, and it seems, you know, counterintuitive for me to say, collaboration is really, you know, sort of the name of the game. But, you know, for most of these families, you know, I mean, I look at a lot of families, and I say to them, you know, you are going to be in the special education system for what, 15 years, 16 years, you know, however old your child is, you know, versus, you know, 18 or 22, or when you see them coming out, you know, that is a long time, you know, you have to think about really long, really long time, you have to think about the long game, you know, and sometimes the long game is not served in the long run by being very combative. It's served by, you know, sort of getting the right advice and figuring out what your goal is, and whether it's realistic, and whether it is like within the scope of the law. You know, lots of times people want things that are not in the scope of the law, you know, I mean, that's yes, you know, that's definitely something. And it's a different issue, figuring that all out, it's not necessarily in your best interest to blow up your relationship with the school, when your kid is seven, you know, to get another decade, you definitely Dana Jonson 12:29 have to think long and hard before you make that decision. And that's a really good point. Because I say that to parents all the time is you have the right to privately educate your child any way you want. But if you want something from the public school district, if you want them to pay for any of it, if you want them involved in any way, shape or form, there's a process we there's a process. That's absolutely right, broken process, but it's the only one we've got, 12:55 I mean, I'm not gonna call it a crime, but it is, you know, a shame that, you know, this is a civil right, you know, special education is a civil right. But it is a right, that requires resources, in many cases, to enforce, you know, the enforcement of this is 100% on the parents, which is not fair, despite all of you know, the protections that are built in the law, that is just the way that it plays out sometimes. So, you're right, it's 100% of process, you know, my 16 year old, went to the DMV yesterday, and was not able to take his driver's test, because we did not have a certificate from the driver school saying they had completed Driver's Ed. And they were like, boom, it's done, we've, you know, we've closed this out, can't take the test today. And that's a little bit like the special education process, you know, it's, that process has to be followed, you know, step by step by step by step by step, you have to get in that line and get another line and get the other line and nobody at the DMV is going to tell you how to do it. Right. And you better have all your, like ducks in a row before you get there. It's a difficult process. And parents a lot of times struggle with that, you know, with with having to have all that together, it requires a lot, a lot. Dana Jonson 14:06 It takes a lot of energy, first of all, just in general. And then if you don't know exactly what you're looking for what's important, then you don't know what to document or Right. Right. And, you know, it's funny, because a lot of times people assume that hiring a lawyer will make things worse, like right off the bat. Right. And sometimes they do sometimes and sometimes in a way that it has to, you know, like you're not getting anywhere. So yes, it's going to be a little bit aggressive. But the other piece is we are personally invested. Yeah, we I look at it and I say they're not following the process. And so I go to the other attorney and I say your client is not doing what they're supposed to do. And if it's a decent other attorney, you know, they might not say to me, you're right, they screwed up. In fact, they definitely won't say that. But they will likely go back to their client and say You guys gotta clean this up. Yeah, You need to fix it. Yeah. And that's I mean, a lot, not all board attorney, some are some there are some out there that will fight just for the sake of fighting for, you know, where I have to tell my client, I can tell you right now they're going to fight us at every step of the way. But as a rule, you know, when attorneys get involved, sometimes things get resolved very quickly. Yeah. 15:21 Because there's a clarity and a structure that is applied to the process. And also, you know, I mean, it doesn't matter how, like, good you are, you know, as a parent advocate, or, or even if you're an attorney yourself, it is your child. So, that element of worry of care of emotion that can distort the way that you react, you know, you know, I mean, I had an attorney, kick, Dana Jonson 15:50 my PPTs. And my husband was in agreement. So like, that's a whole different issue. 15:55 No, I mean, it's, you know, it's, it's really, so I mean, I Dana Jonson 15:58 can't be objective when it's your kid, no, you can't, I mean, just can, 16:02 you can't, and I do think though, you know, kind of getting back to your original thought, it's very difficult. If, you know, you don't know the process, it's very difficult if you don't know what to do, or what to ask, the first thing that I tell because I get a call every day from someone, not necessarily a self client, but someone who's kind of, you know, not unsure and doesn't know what's going on, and what should I do, and you know, and the first thing I always tell them to do, is to make a timeline of what has transpired with your child, it can be on a notebook, it can be in your iPhone notes, you can get super, you know, OCD and do an Excel spreadsheet, whatever. But you need to write down in a chronological order, with the years with the dates, what exactly happened, and when. And if you have backing, you know, documentation of that incident, if there was a communication, all of that should be in there, too. And once you can look at that was I mean, I don't think that anyone should go to talk to a professional attorney or advocate without doing that first, that's the first thing that they should do. Because you cannot have a coherent conversation with a professional without having done that. That's the first thing when clients hire, I've failed that both times. I mean, I've failed to do that. Just you know, in general, like when I, when I'm granted and billing parents what to do not following my back and doing it myself now. But yeah, no, but that's the first thing we do. And we... /episode/index/show/ntkwdj/id/24682008

IEE = Independent Educational Evaluations 09/28/2022

State Complaints, and a little on IEEs too 09/14/2022

Who's on your BOE? 08/18/2021

Why we need learning options 08/12/2021

Hanging Out and Going Back 08/04/2021

End of year wrap up 07/01/2021

Summer isn't just a courtESY 06/23/2021

Summer isn't just a courtESY Summer's coming! So today, special education parent and advocate, Lisa Lightner, founder of A Day in Our Shoes, joins me to discuss Extended School Year services. What are they? Who gets them? And do you need them? Check out ADayInOurShoes.com A transcript of this episode can be found here shortly after the episode is published: TRANSCRIPT (not proofread) SUMMARY KEYWORDS parents, child, ies, extended school year, iep, school, school district, hear, social skills, students, program, summer, services, lisa, special ed, offering, camp, regression, week, disabilities SPEAKERS Dana Jonson Dana Jonson 00:02 Hello, and welcome to need to know with Dana Jonson. I'm your host, Dana Jonson. And I'm here to give you the information you need to know to best advocate for your child. I'm a special education attorney in private practice, a former special education teacher and administrator, a current mom to four children with IPS and I myself have ADHD and dyslexia. So I've approached the world of disability and special education from many angles. And I'll provide straightforward information about your rights and your schools obligations, information from other professionals on many topics, as well as tips and tricks for working with your school district. My goal is to empower you through your journey. So please subscribe to this podcast so you don't miss any new episodes. And I want to know what you want to know. So like, follow and drop me a note on my need to know with Dana Jonson Facebook page. Okay, let's get started. Hello, and thank you for joining me today. I'm very excited to talk about the extended school year today. We are in mid June, which is the end of the school year. And so hopefully if your child requires Yes, why you've already established that in your IEP. But what we're going to talk about more is why do we have it? What is this? Why? Why do we have it? Why do we want it? And do we really want to use it. And I have with me Lisa lightner, who is a parent, and advocate and the founder of a day in our shoes, which is an amazing resource for parents a website with an amazing resource. And we'll get into all of that in a minute. But I wanted to first touch on the fact that if you have not heard yet, I will repeat myself I am going through a transition or not I am not my podcast is need to know with Dana Jonson is going through a transition. And next week will be the final episode as need to know with Dana Jonson. And then I will relaunch again in August as special ed on special ed, it will be special ed experts talking about special ed topics. So basically the exact same content. I'm just changing the name and the logo, because what I learned is that when you search for a special education podcast, need to know doesn't necessarily pop up on your screen. So I have a wonderful and solid loyal audience. And I love you all. And I want to reach more people. So we're just going to change do some cosmetic changes. But I'll be back in August with all the same great content. So I do hope to see you there. Now back to Yes, why? Hello, Lisa, thank you so much for joining me today. Yay. I want to talk to you because you have a lot of experience with special ed and also with helping parents and with going through the process yourself. So I was hoping you could give me a little background and maybe introduce yourself and how you and a day in our shoes came to be because that website is so amazingly full of information for parents, and probably teachers and administrators as well. I'm going to guess a few of those peruse your site. 03:03 Yes, I know that I do get a lot of school staff traffic, especially for my lists of IEP goals and the various disciplines or areas of need. So yeah, so it's good for both parents and school staff. Although my main goal from the get go and you know, as it continues to be today, as always been to help parents understand the IEP process. Actually, in March, the site just turned 10 years old, which is a little crazy. I know, I can't believe it. Prior to that I actually did have a different I had a separate site and I was working as a teacher, I used to teach a vocational program. And I had a sight completely unrelated to anything disabilities. But I did have a baby with disabilities, his preschool sent home a flyer to take training to become a special ed advocate. His school did. Yeah, he went to an arc preschool. Dana Jonson 03:55 Okay, that makes more sense. I'm envisioning the public school sending you out a flyer. I 04:02 know you went to an ark preschool. So they sent home a flyer to do this special ed advocacy training. And I did it merely because he was a toddler. And I said, you know, this seems like a lot. And I already understood that like, Whoa, this is pretty overwhelming because people were always coming to my house and explaining things to me and paperwork was just, you know, phenomenal. Dana Jonson 04:25 It Anyway, during the lab work and special ed. 04:28 But during the last recession, I lost my job during the 2008 recession. I lost my job, I was already in the training. So suddenly, I had a lot more time on my hands and became you know, was still going through the training, started volunteering, merge that into working part time for the arc as an advocate and then went on, you know, went off on my own started the website. And it's funny because I started the website actually with another friend who is also an advocate and we were like, oh, we're gonna like this website's gonna be about everything special. needs and like we live near where we live in Philadelphia. And we're like, we're going to list camps. And we're going to list programs and support meetings. And I mean, for Philadelphia alone, that amount of information is completely overwhelming. And what I, what I had learned early on is that parents really weren't just coming to the site for the IEP information. And, you know, some of my earliest posts are on things like what to do when your child's suspended manifestation hearings, and just because no one explains that to them and in language that they can understand and kind of walks you through the process. So you know, really, it was the parents who told me, this is what we need to hear, this is what we want to hear. So it's just grown since there. Dana Jonson 05:44 I love it. Because I feel like as you said, it breaks things down in a way that is consumable. You know, that makes sense. And I even find, for me, when I go to look something up, if I go to another attorneys page, sometimes about something in the law, and even I get bored, you know, like, this is so dry. So it's great to have that translation, you know, in what I call real, you know, I 06:07 do read Ida off and in the procedural safeguards, and the Federal Register that goes with it. And you know, it's those paragraphs, you have to go through them three and four times and the sentence at a time and well, then there's case law that defines it afterwards. And it's not really clear cut or black and white as we'd like it to be Dana Jonson 06:25 let's talk about is why does your child heaviest? Why did you have to have this battle at some point? 06:29 Well, first of all, let's let's just clarify, because I do this to ies y means extended school year. Dana Jonson 06:35 Yes. Thank you for slowing me down. I talked so fast. And sometimes I completely forget that. I'm just talking in my own language. But you're right, we're talking about extended school year services, not summer school, not camp, it's very specific service, that children who qualify are entitled to from their school district. And it's an extended school year. That's exactly what it sounds like. It means that your school year will continue beyond when the typical school year ends. So how do we get there? Lisa, why do we want it? What is it? 07:08 Right? Well, so first of all, you said, Did you ever do that battle? And I'd have to say No, I've never had to fight that battle with my child. That's great. Pennsylvania actually does have one case, he's in what is known as the Armstrong group. And it was based on a case you know, Armstrong versus someone I don't remember who it was. But the Armstrong group is kids whose needs are, you know, they're pretty high needs pretty severe autism, intellectual disability, situations like that. So it's kind of like says kids in the Armstrong group are always going to qualify for Yes. Why they're always going to need it. So he's in he's in that group. So it's not thankfully, that's one battle, I don't have to fight every year. Dana Jonson 07:54 Well, that is a good point. And and to start right off the bat, let's talk about why a student might need Yes, why. And I think that there is a misconception, there are several misconceptions about it. One is that it is only for regression. So right, only if you're going to regress, now, all students regress, right? So let, let's just start there, all of them regress over the summer, it's called the summer slide. That's why we have those silly packets, we have to force them to fill out and do over the summer. And you know, in the first month of school is really teachers trying to get kids back into the swing of things and caught back up and figuring out where their slides were. And for children with disabilities, if they are going to regress even more than that typical amount, then that's when we're looking at extended school year services. But what you're saying about this arm strong group in Pennsylvania, which is specific to your state, but we also argue here in Connecticut, which is and everywhere else is that if the nature of the disability is so severe, that the student requires those additional weeks or months to meet their goals and objectives, because that's what they require. They're continuing to work on those pieces, then they might also qualify for extended school year. 09:09 Yeah. And they're actually you know, as you know, there are other criteria, as far as is the child on the verge of an emerging skill, how long it takes them to recoup lost skills, and things like that. So I think that that is probably the biggest myth out there that, you know, he he doesn't regret he's not at fear, or he's not at one of the standard line that I hear from parents is that he's not at risk for regressing, so he doesn't qualify. Dana Jonson 09:34 Well, I think that's how do you define regression? Because as you said, if you're on the verge of an emerging skill, and if you wait till September to continue it, and you will lose that ground, that's called regression. I mean, I think that's how I look at it anyway, you know, so I think we have to look at it from a lot of different places, and sometimes I hear well, they're fine on Christmas break. So we don't have regression, 09:57 right? And that's where I tell parents that you know, It's you have to stay engaged in the process, you know, year round. And because a lot of kids, I mean, a lot of kids do regress, even over Christmas break, but the parent doesn't necessarily document that or it's not the things aren't as visible. And I have to remind parents all the time that, you know, teachers in schools only see what happens at school. So if you're seeing additional things at home, you need to start documenting that. Right. Dana Jonson 10:24 And that's been a neat change over COVID. Right, is that I think parents voices are getting a little louder. Yeah, because they're actually seeing this progression or understanding what regression is. And, and I think that's a good point, because maybe, as you said, an emerging skill. And I'm saying, I see that as regression. But if the parent doesn't know that emerging skill is happening in school, then the parent isn't going to know to document the regression either. Right? So a lot of that comes back to communication and understanding what's in the IEP and what your child is working on. 10:54 Yes. And I believe, and I, sometimes I get confused in my head, I'm like, is this Pennsylvania specific? Or is this Ida, but I believe it's in Ida that no single factors should decide whether or not the child gets Yes, why. So even if that alone, if you're saying, well, the child doesn't regress enough to get Yes. Why? Well, Ida says, it shouldn't be any one single factor, Dana Jonson 11:16 right? There should take in a whole bunch of components. And as we know, every child is different. And we individualize. So how do you find ies wise typically provided when you're advocating for students? And you're looking for extended school year programs? How do you find that that is typically provided to families? 11:35 Yeah, so one of the other tenets of ies why is that it's supposed to be individualized? No. Dana Jonson 11:45 I heard a rumor. 11:48 But that is honestly I would say, and I get it, I get that only certain teachers agree with their contract to work over the summer, certain therapists, things like that, and busing and, you know, bus, what's the word? I'm looking for contracts and therapist contracts, you know, because a lot of these things, therapies and you know, like bcbas, and transportation, mostly, you know, a lot of schools don't have their own they contract out. So I get that, from an administrative standpoint, it makes a lot of sense to just say, Hey, we're doing four weeks in July, Monday through Thursday, nine to one See you there. But around here anyway, that's getting to be just the norm. You know, hey, we'll see in July, Monday through Thursday, nine to one, Dana Jonson 12:32 right and less if it depending on when the Fourth of July falls? Yes. Right. Because that could add or eliminate a whole week, 12:39 right? And then we have a whole other situation where in the city, if the buildings aren't air conditioned schools get canceled. And a lot of you know, because I live in an old area. I live near Philadelphia, and a lot of these buildings aren't air conditioned. So then that throws in a whole other. Dana Jonson 12:55 No, yeah. And Connecticut schools can't go past the end of June because no schools are mandated to be air conditioned. And it's hot here. You know, we had a heatwave the other week, I was surprised, no schools closed. Because you need air conditioning in Connecticut in the summer. 13:10 Right. And they did actually, that was just You're right. That was just like last week, and Philadelphia schools did dismiss early they dismissed at lunchtime each day, because it just got too hot. So yes, I would say the biggest trend and but it's also the biggest concern is just that that whole individuality piece, as far as eBay just gets tossed out the window. And I think parents need to engage more and investigate. Like, I think they spend so much time focusing on whether or not their child qualifies. And oh, I just want them to get as why that they're not digging deep and saying, Okay, I gotta Yes, why now what's going to happen? Because it's to be based on your child's IEP. And if they're going to do you know, two hours of La each day and two hours of math and then send your kid home, and your child doesn't necessarily have needs in those areas, then you know why, you know, nobody wants to go to school in the summer, right? As Americans, we're just we're programmed to not think about school to not go to school in the summer, and nobody wants to do it. So if you're going to get your child in ies why let's make it meaningful, right? Let's, you know, if they're going to go and you're going to do that, let's make it meaningful. Dana Jonson 14:15 I hear that as well, that, you know, we want as why we want as why, and then, you know, maybe I get EMI for my client. And later they say, Well, that wasn't really what they needed. I have to remind clients that that you are the parent, and they're all these experts around you. And you know, I'm using air quotes for experts that you can't see. But there are all these experts around you telling you what it should be. And at the end of the day, as you said, if if it's focused on math and reading and your child's issues, their social skills, and schools can't mandate typical students to attend summer programs or ies. Why then is that program really benefiting your child? You have to figure that out. There's no one else around is going to do it for you. 14:55 The flip side of that is that parents who are fairly certain that their child is going to get the Guess why they some of them jump right to the so I found the summer camp. mean, I found the social skills summer camp, and I'm going to make the school pay for it. Meanwhile, social skills isn't even an identified area of need in the IEP. So right, you know, again, it has to be individualized. But it also has to be defined as an area of need in the IEP. And as you said, they cannot force non IEP students to attend Yes, why to enable that LRE. Dana Jonson 15:26 That's a very good point, because I have had parents call me and say, You know, I think my child really needs the social skills piece. But there is no social skills, as you said, in the IEP, that's a red flag, right? If, if you're looking for a service that is not in your child's IEP, it should be, then we need to revisit that whole component. Because, you know, some children, if they go the whole summer, and they don't have friends, their parents can do their level best to get those interactions, but they're not getting that peer interaction, like they get at school. And that's a really long time to go without that. 16:02 Right. It is, and especially this year, you know, because many had at least a year gap, if not more, you know, some stayed home through May or June and are not going back until the fall. So they haven't been there since last March. You know, and I know a lot of schools have been in the fall and it gradually more and more throughout the school year. But yeah, I mean, it's that is a long time. Dana Jonson 16:22 Did you find where you are or where you are now? Do you find that schools are opening up ies wise and or summer school and or recruitment programs? Not recruitment Brit re yeah recoup recoup not recruit programs to help students who had that that huge gap because I find there are some some schools around where I am that are doing that that are being more proactive and saying like last year, they said anyone who wanted to go to ESRI could 16:51 Yeah. So Laura. And I actually know Laura, who works for those of you missed it on Laura did was gracious enough to do a facebook live with me. And we talked about comp services due to COVID and getting the services. Because what another issue you know, of course, keep in mind, nobody ever comes to me when things are going well, they only come to me, right? things aren't going well, right? I have to constantly remind myself of that. But a lot of parents are inquiring about comp services like hey, my child missed a year of this and you know, you're have that. And then it's Oh, well, he can go to ies Why then he can go to ies Why? And again, it's about that digging deeper and saying well, but this is what he missed. So what is ies? Why, and and what's going to happen there? And is that sufficient? Because yes, I do see a lot of schools being more generous with offering EFI to students. But again, just bring them in for a couple of hours to do some reading and some math. Dana Jonson 17:47 Kids don't progress through osmosis. Right? Right, just appearing in the school, 17:53 they're not getting that pull out, or they're not getting their therapy, or whatever it is, because I hear all kinds of crazy stuff like, well, we don't do OT and E s y. And like, I don't you know, Dana Jonson 18:02 any any statement that starts with we don't, is usually incorrect. 18:08 The only thing the only one that I will say applies this time is that for as why the school... /episode/index/show/ntkwdj/id/19572353

What's the deal with mediation? 06/03/2021

We're going to SuperD!ville 04/28/2021

We're going to SuperD!ville Today we head to SuperD!Ville where children who learn differently (and their peers) find out about how their brains work and social emotional learning. We talk with Peggy Stern, Founder and CEO, and Diana Correa-Cintron, COO, about how SuperD!Ville came to be and how it is helping children everywhere! SuperD!Ville is a forward thinking and unique multimedia resource that combines videos with real kids and lessons plans for a broad range of social and emotional issues. Created by Academy Award winner Peggy Stern, SuperD!Ville empowers the 1 in 5 children who learn differently. Research shows that it helps all students: Develop SEL skills (self-esteem, resilience, empathy, etc.) Identify their strengths and challenges as learners Acquire useful self-advocacy tools for school and beyond In addition, all of the kids who act in the videos have learning differences like dyslexia and ADHD! Peggy Stern, Founder and CEO Peggy Stern is an Academy Award-winning film Producer/Director with more than 30 years experience. Her dyslexia led her to filmmaking and animation at a young age, and in March 2006 Stern won the Oscar for Best Animated Short. Stern has produced for PBS, HBO, Teachers College at Columbia University, The National PTA, and National YWCA among others. She received her BA from Harvard University and her senior thesis film STEPHANIE, was turned into a PBS documentary special and broadcasted nationally. SuperDville is a family affair, as her dyslexic daughter Emma has been a key advisor! Diana Correa-Cintron, Chief Operating Officer Diana is an attorney by training, educator and Latino rights activist. She has worked as a public interest lawyer, policy analyst, development officer and consultant for a range of non-profit and educational institutions such as FIU, Columbia University School of Law, Hispanics in Philanthropy, the Bronx Children’s Museum and the NAACP Legal Defense Fund and was also awarded a Fulbright Fellowship. As the COO for SuperDville, Diana works in partnership with Peggy Stern on strategic planning, outreach and cultural competency. She is the proud mother of two sons with dyslexia. You can reach both Peggy and Diana through the SuperD!ville website: Peggy and Diana also discussed SuperD!friends in this episode, which can be found here: Full TRANSCRIPT of this episode can be found at /episode/index/show/ntkwdj/id/18886748

A Day in Our Shoes on COVID and Comp Ed 04/17/2021

We're college bound! 03/24/2021

We're college bound! Is your child with special education needs college bound? What do they need to get there? And where is there? Today, Special Education Attorney Laura Heneghan shares her journey helping her children navigate transition skills for college and what questions to ask. You can find both Laura and me at and you can reach Laura directly at Laura @SpecialEd.Law The TRANSCRIPT for this episode can be found in the show notes at TRANSCRIPTS (not proofread) SUMMARY KEYWORDS college, child, brogan, student, learning, school, high school, kids, accommodations, disabilities, people, classes, absolutely, professors, parents, skills, learning disabilities, capable, dyslexia, campus SPEAKERS Laura Heneghan, Special Education Attorney, Dana Jonson Dana Jonson 00:02 Hello, and welcome to need to know with Dana Jonson. I'm your host, Dana Jonson. And I'm here to give you the information you need to know to best advocate for your child. And a special education attorney in private practice. A former special education teacher and administrator, a current mom to four children with IPS and I myself have ADHD and dyslexia. So I've approached the world of disability and special education from many angles. And I'll provide straightforward information about your rights and your schools obligations, information from other professionals on many topics, as well as tips and tricks for working with your school district. My goal is to empower you through your journey. So please subscribe to this podcast so you don't miss any new episodes. And I want to know what you want to know. So like, follow and drop me a note on my need to know with Dana Jonson Facebook page. Okay, let's get started. Hello, today I am speaking with Laura Hannigan. Hello, Laura. Thank you for joining me. Thank you. Laura has been with us before she works with me in my office. And the reason Laura that I wanted to have you on again, is to talk about taking her children from learning disabilities and other disabilities in school to college, because that is a step that I find very difficult for typically developing students forget disabilities. And it's it's complicated enough as it is, but I know you have some in depth experience with it. So why am I asking you? Why are you the person I'm coming to to talk to me about getting kids with disabilities into college? Let's start there. Laura Heneghan, Special Education Attorney 01:37 Okay, well, aside from professional experience I've personally experienced in this area, I have three children, and the oldest, my son Brogan has dyslexia, dysgraphia, and dyscalculia. And he is currently in his last semester of college. So I feel like I'm here. So I can talk a bit about the journey and some of the things I've learned and would be happy to share with your listeners. Dana Jonson 02:01 That is awesome. So when can we start worrying about college, I have one student, I have one child, I shouldn't say student, one child of mine, who was adopted an older age, so I didn't get to know her until she was 13. But at 13, I was told she would not go to college that was not her trajectory, and that we should be looking at something else. And then I have my own biological children who from the very beginning, I presumed that college would be the end goal no matter what. And you know, I've had to adjust that perspective from time to time. And now I'm back on College Track for some of them. But when we make that decision, Laura Heneghan, Special Education Attorney 02:38 as I said, Bergen is my oldest three children, two of them are in college, and one is currently a junior in high school. So I always did look at freshmen and sophomore years, kind of the free years where they could just enjoy school, I could have them enjoy school, and not worry about things until that, you know, critical junior year. But I found one Brogan was in 10th grade was when I really started thinking about it because like you I wasn't sure if he would be capable of handling college going away to school what our options were. In addition to his learning disabilities, he had a lot of social anxiety. So we didn't know what he was capable of. And as we all know, kids continue to mature well into their 20s. So looking at somebody at 10th grade is a totally different thing than what they're going to eventually end up to be so Dana Jonson 03:28 but I think and I just want to jump in because what you said is really great is you're not just talking about academics, right? Oh, yeah. I they're talking about learning to live by college. And and that experience in and of itself is something it's monumental. I mean, it's really big. Laura Heneghan, Special Education Attorney 03:45 Absolutely. So, you know, in the way that I work is usually I like to research things. So if you're old enough, you probably recall the back of the big Barron's book of colleges. And I love flipping through that and they actually have an addition that's for programs with colleges and universities with programs for kids with learning disabilities. Dana Jonson 04:05 And they just updated it, they just updated it, it came out in February, I know cuz I've ordered it. Laura Heneghan, Special Education Attorney 04:10 So really not involving him yet, because of the anxiety issue. I got that and kind of flipped through to get an idea of what the options would be. And one thing I was glad I noticed at that early stage was that many more schools became even a possibility if you have two years of a foreign language, so for them to even to consider admission, they want those two years almost despite how your child does in the class. Like many kids with dyslexia, Brogan had a foreign language language waiver. So he had not taken Spanish or French or whatever they were offering and as freshmen and sophomore year so we did end up enrolling him in his junior and senior year solely for the ability to open up that kind of extra level of colleges based on the requirements Dana Jonson 04:58 and I found that in our in our high school. Anyway, they don't require it. So I struggled with that, because I was saying My child is going to need two years of language. And they were saying, nope, No, they don't. And then I was like, well, I need a language waiver, because I have one child with nonverbal learning disability and learning a foreign language is next to impossible. So, and they wouldn't give it to me because if not required to graduate from high school. So right parent, yeah, so I want to talk about that, at some point, how we address those barriers to? Laura Heneghan, Special Education Attorney 05:29 Well, it's funny, I think colleges are becoming more aware of the two because more are offering things like ASL. Because if you American Sign Language, if you have a kid who struggles with reading and writing in English, and you're requiring them that they take a foreign language, you're just asking for failure for them, which is, it's just not really, you know, fair to the kid. And I know, when Brogan started taking Spanish in his high school, he was running into a lot of issues. And we kind of, you know, step back and look and and it turned out he wasn't getting the same accommodations in Spanish, like a word bank. He was not he was being penalized for spelling and things that in English, he was not being penalized for. But he wasn't Spanish. So we kind of had to get, you know, the whole team on board that the combinations carry across. Yeah, I wouldn't have even thought of that. Do that. And everyone, it was kind of a lightbulb moment for everybody. It was like, Oh, yeah, that that totally makes sense. We had just never thought of that. Yeah. So we were fortunate that his high school took a bunch of students on a college tour in the summer between sophomore and junior year. So he was able to be exposed to different campuses, different cultures on campus size locations, kind of without the parental lens being on it, which I thought was great. And it was a really good opportunity. I grew up in New York State and basically had the choice of any new york state school, I could get into sight unseen. So I wasn't really a true believer in needing to visit colleges, it was like apply to them get into the best one, you can and go there. Because Brogan has seen schools, we were able to kind of limit it to he didn't want to be urban, he didn't want to be an engineering, he didn't want to be that far away from home. So then we kind of drew a, you know, three hour radius around where we were, and figured we'd start looking at programs that had learning disability programs, kind of an official program. And just as an aside, there's kind of three main levels. So there are, every college has to have a disabilities office to address any accommodations for any students disabilities. And with that, they can sometimes offer some tutoring services or some accommodations that like extra time, then you've got kind of a middle level tier where you could maybe pay for some tutoring, or the school has like a peer tutoring section or something that the kids can go to for a little extra help. And then you've got kind of the full blown, usually additional tuition learning program that's a little more structured, we started visiting those high level, you know, learning structured ones. And it was really interesting to me, because I wouldn't have believed the benefit in the visit. Until one day, we were on a campus that on paper was a perfect fit for him. And we took our tour and the program was great. The people were great. But he and I walking around the campus, he said, I don't see any other Bourbons here. And that was a really high impact moment for me both his awareness of that and that he needed to feel like he fit wherever he was going. So that really changed my perception of what it was to visit a college. And honestly, there were some that we pulled up to and he was like, nope. And we just kept driving. And I found the exact same experience with my daughter, Kylie, there were places that we'd pull up to and it didn't feel right. Or there was something that just didn't feel like it was a place that she wanted to be. And I realized kind of how important at least in our situation with my kids that it was a really important piece. Dana Jonson 09:08 Yeah, yeah, definitely that fit and, and getting a vibe for it too, because I was presumed not unlike high schools and other schools, just because they have a program on paper that appears perfect for you. Doesn't mean it it. Absolutely. We run into that all the time with students in elementary or middle or high school. Like Yes, well, this program may be great for a lot of kids with disability or with dyslexia, but it's not working for this kid with dyslexia. So we have to look at something different. So I think that's a great point that that individualizing doesn't change just because they're going to college. It still needs to be an individual is because if the child doesn't buy in or doesn't feel comfortable, you're not going to get out of them their best. Laura Heneghan, Special Education Attorney 09:54 Exactly. And I think for different kids, the level of that might be different, but for him it Was it was really important. And we came across his current university where they don't have a specific program. But we went in, and we talked to his the Learning Support Group. And we presented his current testing and his IPS. And they really felt that they could support him. And it was a, it was a campus that felt good to all of us. So we identified another campus that was a good fit that had an additional PE program. And we decided he would apply to both of those early but non binding so that if we needed to continue the application process, we could, but for him applying to too many schools would have been overwhelming. So we kind of picked his top two choices, and did the early application for those. And he ended up getting into both Yeah, he broken. He actually liked the one with the less formal program. And that worried us a little bit. So his high school support teachers actually got on the phone with the university and talked about the services that they could offer to him and got us all comfortable that it was a really good fit. Most importantly, was he felt like that university wanted him. And in the end, the decision was his Yeah, it was he really felt like they wanted him to be there. I think in in going through the process, there are a couple things that were really helpful, you know, we went and visited and we spoke to the people that run the disability offices and, you know, going with a list of prepared questions to ask and write down the answers. Because once you visit more than two colleges, you forget what somebody else said, you know, and bring the list of accommodations your kid is currently getting so that you know what works and what doesn't work. And you need to go in making sure that your your child knows what their strengths and their vulnerabilities are. And if they're not sure help them to kind of figure it out because it at the college level, whether they're 18 or not, when they go to college college is going to treat them like an adult. And they're going to have to advocate a bit more for themselves and know their profile as a learner. So that they can ask for help during the process. And they need to really notify their professors, each professor of the accommodations they need. Now, if they want to struggle with that, there's people that can facilitate it and support them. But it's kind of good to know going in that they've got to be a little more responsible for that kind of stuff. Dana Jonson 12:22 When I think that's an important skill that we say all the time. Kids need to learn how to self advocate and we talked about it, we talked about it. But what does that look like? And what does that look like in real life. And what that looks like is being able to find that learning center, if that's the school that you're going to one where you have to seek it out yourself. Because as you're talking about these three tiers, what I'm understanding is there some that just offer whatever the federal law makes them offer, right, you have to offer certain level of accommodation reasonable accommodations under the ADA, then you get to the next step where they found the services, but you have to seek them out and get them yourself. And then the third level would be an integrated program. Laura Heneghan, Special Education Attorney 13:03 Correct. And one of the things we found really helpful was he set up weekly appointments, because left to make the decision in the moment about Should I go get help or not was something that was difficult for him. But when he had an appointment on his schedule, he would go every single time. So that was really, really helpful. The other thing I found really helpful, which my kids absolutely hated, is when you're on the campus, stop other students and ask them what they think about the school, and about the food and about the professors and about the dorms. And all of those parts that we you know, refer to earlier all part of the experience. And who better to tell you but somebody who's currently there, because it's really not all about the academics. It's a change in where you live, what you eat your friends, how you maintain your hygiene, it's, you know, you've probably never shared a bathroom with 20 other people before. So it's really different. And Brogan joined the ultimate frisbee team as a freshman. And that was a great choice for him. Because it kept him busy. It gave him exercise, and it kind of gave him a built in social group. And that was one of the things that I contribute to his success at school. And personally, I made the decision to not obsess about grades. And to this day, I actually don't know what any of his college grades are. I know he attends class. And we'll get to how I know that. And I know he's not failed any classes. And he's graduating in four years. So grades. You know, when I talked to him, I asked, Are you happy? Are you working hard? Are you doing well? And those are the things that I chose to focus on. Because for him the accomplishments in all of those areas were so huge. Dana Jonson 14:40 Yeah. And I think when you're going to college, either you're in or you're out, right. So when when you're when you're looking at high school grades, you're worried about those grades because of what they bring you to NES and in college, at least my personal philosophy is you made it right you're there now. Can you stay there and make it through, because unless you are planning to do something very specific, many times your class rank doesn't actually matter. your GPA doesn't actually matter. Obviously, if you're failing or an academic probation, those are different stories. But as a rule, you know, you're not looking for that next competitive school. I mean, if you are going to graduate school, sure, but there are also other paths to graduate school. So it's a little I find it takes the pressure off a little Did you find that through your experience, or Absolutely, Laura Heneghan, Special Education Attorney 15:32 and I think that's why it enabled me who I'm a pretty detail oriented person, to just not focus on it at all, like, as long as he receives his diploma, he's good. And it doesn't really matter how he got there. Like you said, he's passed all his classes, and he hasn't been on probation. And I think you don't know how your kid's gonna respond. When they get there, I was really worried about him and the friends and the dorm situation, because the high school that he went to was a really small High School, and he was absolutely fine. Now, my next one, my daughter, she went to college, and she had some anxiety and the dorm was really a tough thing for her, she got put in triple and that was not working. Dana Jonson 16:15 They should never group girls in threes. I really, like we all learn that early, let's just not do it. Laura Heneghan, Special Education Attorney 16:23 You know, as an accommodation, we got her move to a single room. And that was helpful, but then she wasn't socializing really at all. So eventually, we got an emotional support dog for her that lived with her in the dorm in her single, and that provided kind of the comfort to her. And also a talking point for people like who doesn't want to go up to a dog and you know, talk to the person that's, that owns the dog. So it helps her socially to, but it wouldn't have anticipated that when she was going. But I really want to I want to circle back to the How did I know he was attending classes? Yeah, most, one of the most important things I think, as a parent you can do. As I said earlier, your kid is an adult, they make the decisions at college, you can't find out about if they went to the infirmary, how you know what happened or anything like that, unless your child tells you or they give you specific permission. So FERPA is the law that covers you know, student information. And it's true in the elementary and secondary schools. And it's true in college. So you can have your child sign a waiver that gives you access to their academic information. And I found that really helpful because I didn't have to get on the phone with or FaceTime or whatever it was with Brogan and asked him about, are you going to class? Are you going to tutoring? I could contact this other person and say, I just want to ensure he's doing what he's supposed to be doing. And as long as that answer was, yes, I could focus on all the positive things that he was experiencing at school. So I really did find that that to... /episode/index/show/ntkwdj/id/18447344

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