The Systemic Insight podcast

The Systemic Insight podcast series is presented by Marcus Jenal and Shawn Cunningham. Marcus and Shawn are development practitioners that are passionate about more systemic impact within development. Finding more systemic intervention points are becoming more important as donors realize that interventions have to be more sensitive to the complexity of the societies where they want to see positive change happening

Chris Corrigan: in our most creative moments, we feel invited into working together 06/29/2020

Chris Corrigan: in our most creative moments, we feel invited into working together In this episode of the Systemic Insight Podcast, Marcus talks with Chris Corrigan. Chris is a facilitator and an expert in complexity-sensitive facilitation techniques. He has been using similar methods and frameworks as Mesopartner, such as for example the Cynefin framework, developed by Prof. Dave Snowden. Chris describes himself as a process artist, a teacher and a facilitator of social technologies for face to face conversation in the service of emergence. His business is supporting invitation: the invitation to collaborate, to organise, to find one another and make a difference in our communities, organisations and lives. Marcus and Chris talked about the difference between being an expert that brings solutions and a facilitator that creates the conditions for emergence. Chris made his first experiences with truly complexity-sensitive facilitation when he started working with the Open Space technology. The two discuss the importance of invitation and respecting human dignity in collaborative processes and in dialogue. According to Chris, in our most creative moments, we feel invited into working together, into collaborating. During the discussion, Chris describes the Cynefin framework and how he uses it in his practice. Chris presents Cynefin as an incredibly useful generative framework and shares how we can use it to make sense of action. He also introduces some other useful concepts of complexity such as containers, boundaries and connections, attractors, and identities. Marcus and Chris also discuss the current COVID-19 pandemic, how complexity concepts suddenly become very important and useful, and explore quite deeply the relationship between leadership, moral and ethics, complexity and decision making. Finally, they talk about the concept of dialogue and dialogic approaches and how they are fundamentally part of how we humans make sense of the world around us, interact and collaborate, and explore different options on how to act. This episode is with almost 1.5h the longest we have produced so far, but it is packed all the way through with Chris's wisdom and experience. Enjoy! Resources that were mentioned in the episode: Chris’s blog post: Chris’s blog post: Zhen Goh’s blog post: Dave Snowden, Glenda Eoyang, Dave Snowden and Mary Boon’s HBR Article on Cynefin: Dave Snowden and Cynthia Kurtz’s IBM Article: Book: by Alicia Juarrero Dave Snowden’s blog post on Book: . Edited by G. R. Bushe and R. J. Marshak. /episode/index/show/systemicinsight/id/15010532

Dr Toby Lowe #2: responding to Covid-19 with human learning systems 04/28/2020

Dr Toby Lowe #2: responding to Covid-19 with human learning systems Marcus is welcoming back Dr Toby Lowe to the show! The Covid-19 crisis has hit the world and so many things have changed in the short time since we talked to Toby last. Particularly, ideas on complexity and systems thinking have suddenly gained a lot of traction as people realise that the world is indeed an uncertain place and the certainty that we imagined to be in, pre-crisis, was not to last forever. Marcus discusses with Toby how this plays out in the world of social interventions, which has many parallels with the world of international development, as we found out in the last episode. The chat with Toby was guided by the three elements of the new paradigm of social interventions that Toby and colleagues have describe in their report Exploring the new World (see link below): human learning systems. Here a brief summary of the points made about human learning systems: Human: The devolution of decision-making enables the people on the front lines to use the detailed and context specific understanding that comes from the relationships they have with people who they serve. That depth of knowledge that is created out of the direct human-to-human relationships should be brought to the centre of decision-making in service delivery. This is particularly important because crises like C-19 impact different people in very different ways, so a standardised response for all people would not have the same benefits for all. Understanding the uniqueness of each person enables bespoke decision-making about what services are needed. Learning: Managers’ primary focus during the C-19 crisis is on creating learning environments. The C-19 crisis has brought the truth front and centre that the world is complex and this truth has become unignorable. People don’t have a rule book to fall back to, there is no target to tell them what to do, so they have to learn. There is now a sudden burst of energy around learning, centred around ideas and practices of rapid learning environments. Crises are ideal moments to learn as things are forced to be done in different ways – we just need to assess these different ways on whether they are better than what was done before. True learning organisations are now putting in place capabilities to do just that. Systems: in places that have built the infrastructures for providers of social services – councils, charities, commercial providers, mutual aid groups, etc. – to work together, the response to the C-19 crisis was much quicker and much more coherent because they already had the channels and the trust-based relationships to coordinate quickly. In places where the provision of social services was driven by a sense of control, competition and mistrust, the response has been much more fragmented and much slower. Besides the three elements of human learning systems, Toby and Marcus also touched upon other aspects like the question of which decisions should be taken centrally on a national level and which decisions should better be devolved to the local level to people with knowledge of the context, which led to a really interesting discussion. Resources referenced: Chris Bolton's blog about rapid learning environments: Marcus blog about system structures Toby references: Libsky’s street-level bureaucracy: Lankelly Chase on their experience with collective sense-making during COVID-19: The Children's Society on how they are learning during the COVID-19 crisis: https://medium.com/on-the-frontline-of-systems-change/how-we-are-learning-during-our-response-to-the-coronavirus-outbreak-d6d1ab1adb51 LOWE, T. & PLIMMER, D. 2019. . collaborate for social change, Northumbria University Newcastle. website website /episode/index/show/systemicinsight/id/14178230

Dr Toby Lowe: why outcome-based performance management doesn’t work 03/19/2020

On Competitiveness 12/04/2019

An interview with Kristin O’ Planick about market systems resilience 06/11/2019

An interview with Jeanne Downing 03/11/2013

An interview with Dave Snowden 02/27/2013

An interview with Dave Snowden In this episode, Marcus Jenal interviews Dave Snowden. The podcast explores the recognition that development takes place in a dynamic, complex system and the resulting consequences for monitoring and evaluation frameworks. Current monitoring and evaluation frameworks are built around predefined outcomes and based on assumptions of causal, linear, and attributable connections between a project's activities and changes at its outcome and impact levels. Based on complex systems research, these assumptions tend not to reflect the reality of complex systems, such as markets or communities. Dave Snowden introduces emerging theories and tools that allow us to embrace complexity and manage development projects in a way that adapts to realities in complex systems. He discusses possible ways to design monitoring systems, and provides guidance on project design that is informed by scientific research in the field of complex systems. This episode is part of the Systemic M&E series and was produced in partnership with the SEEP Network. About Dave Snowden: Founder and Chief Scientific Officer, Cognitive Edge Snowden was Director of the IBM Institute of Knowledge Management for Europe Middle East and Africa and subsequently founded their Cynefin Centre for Organisational Complexity. He is currently the Founder and Chief Scientific Officer of Cognitive Edge, a research network that focuses on the development of the theory and practice of sense-making. One of the founders of 'Organic Knowledge Management', he is an acknowledged expert on the management of tacit knowledge and has developed a series of pioneering methods including the use of anthropological techniques for knowledge disclosure through the ASHEN model, the use of stories as an advanced form of knowledge repository (based on six years of research into story telling cultures around the world) and the Cynefin "Just in Time" model of knowledge transfer between formal and informal communities. He regularly consults at board level on Knowledge Strategy with some of the Worlds largest companies as well as to Government and NGOs. Snowden is an editor-in-chief of the , Emergence: Complexity and Organisation. Snowden has expertise in the further development of Story Techniques into advanced decision support, merger and acquisition and multi-cultural communication, and using Complexity Theory to link concepts from Learning and Knowledge Management. He has authored many articles on the subject and contributed commissioned chapters to two forthcoming books. Dave Snowden has an MBA from Middlesex University and a BA in Philosophy from Lancaster University. He is honorary fellow in knowledge management at the Universities of Surrey and Warwick and teaches on the MBA programmes at Warwick, Sophia Antipolis and Piacenza. For more information on our work on managing economic complexity and change, visit . This podcast is brought to you by /episode/index/show/systemicinsight/id/2232353

An interview with Shamim Bodhanya about the characteristics of complex adaptive systems 02/10/2013

Systemic Insight Episode 1 02/03/2013

The Systemic Insight podcast

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