Trust and Trade

Deep dives into the worlds of competition, privacy, and consumer protection from a rotating panel of experts.

#44 Space Antitrust 04/14/2025

#44 Space Antitrust Can antitrust law keep up with the rapidly evolving space industry? This episode of Trust and Trade examines the challenges in maintaining a level playing field in space travel, satellite launches, and deep-space exploration. Space law expert Maria Rhimbassen and antitrust expert Dylan Carson join Anant Raut and co-host Amanda Norton to discuss government intervention, market monopolization, and the legal gaps in space regulation. Can we rely on the free market to preserve competition in space? Or is the race to become an interstellar species winner-take-all? With special guests: Maria Rhimbassen, Researcher, University of Toulouse and Dylan Carson, Partner, Manatt, Phelps & Phillips LLP Related Links: Hosted by: Anant Raut and Amanda Norton /episode/index/show/trustandtrade/id/36088555

#43 DeepSeek, and App-Level Competition in AI 03/17/2025

#43 DeepSeek, and App-Level Competition in AI Has the entrance of DeepSeek completely disrupted competition in AI? App developer Scott Weiner and antitrust expert Elyse Dorsey discuss the concentration concerns at every level of the AI stack. Later we examine whether the emergence of DeepSeek, a Chinese AI startup, completely changes how we think about what is needed to compete at the app level in AI. We conclude by looking ahead to where the AI app market may be a year from now. With special guests: Scott Weiner, AI Lead and Fractional Chief Technology Officer, NeuEon and Elyse Dorsey, Partner, Kirkland & Ellis LLP Hosted by: Anant Raut /episode/index/show/trustandtrade/id/35653205

#42 The Problem With Pixels 03/03/2025

#42 The Problem With Pixels Do you find it unnerving when ads follow you around the internet? Today's episode reveals how websites monetize user behavior through advertising technologies such as tracking pixels. Our panel of advertising and privacy experts explain how ad re-targeting works, and debate the Federal Trade Commission's guidance on improper use of pixel technology and the potential impact on businesses and consumers. With special guests: Michael Sherling, Attorney, Federal Trade Commission, Olivia Adendorff, Partner, Kirkland & Ellis LLP, and Alan Butler, Executive Director and President, Electronic Privacy Information Center Related Links: Hosted by: Anant Raut /episode/index/show/trustandtrade/id/35428515

#41 RICO Claims in Antitrust 01/13/2025

#41 RICO Claims in Antitrust In this episode, experts dive into the novel approach of adding racketeering charges in private antitrust litigation. Initially used to bring down organized crime rings, claims under the Racketeer Influenced and Corrupt Organizations Act (RICO) have appeared in plaintiffs' lawsuits in the LIBOR and broiler chicken price-fixing cases. Host Anant Raut and co-host Sam Randall of Sperling Kenny Nachtwalter talk to Christina Lopez of the California DOJ and Ryan Holt of Sherrard Roe Voigt & Harbison PLC on the challenges of arguing RICO violations in antitrust suits. Later, they discuss how this might apply to algorithmic pricing. With special guests: Christina Lopez, Deputy Attorney General, California Department of Justice and Ryan Holt, Member, Sherrard Roe Voigt & Harbison, PLC Hosted by: Anant Raut and Sam Randall /episode/index/show/trustandtrade/id/34793945

#40 Mergernomics: Diversion Analysis 12/23/2024

#40 Mergernomics: Diversion Analysis In this latest episode of our wildly popular "Mergernomics" series, Ph.D. economist Dr. Joanna Tsai explains diversion analysis, an economic tool used by antitrust enforcers to examine how closely two companies compete and whether their merger will be bad for consumers. Host Anant Raut and co-host Carla Hine then dive into different types of diversion analysis, as well as some of the limitations of the test. With special guest: Joanna Tsai, Vice President, Cornerstone Research Related Links: Hosted by: Anant Raut and Carla Hine /episode/index/show/trustandtrade/id/34514920

#39 Mergernomics: Merger Simulations 11/25/2024

#39 Mergernomics: Merger Simulations In the latest episode of our popular "Mergernomics" series, Ted Rosenbaum, Deputy Director in the Bureau of Economics at the U.S. Federal Trade Commission, explains how enforcers apply merger simulations to predict market changes after a proposed merger, sometimes with unexpected results. Hosts Anant Raut and Virginie Caspard then dive into two enforcement actions (against the Aetna-Humana and Wilhelmsen-Drew mergers) where merger simulations were used, and later discuss whether merger simulations are as useful in analyzing non-price markets. With special guest: Ted Rosenbaum, Deputy Director, Bureau of Economics, U.S. Federal Trade Commission Hosted by: Anant Raut and Virginie Caspard /episode/index/show/trustandtrade/id/33971632

#38 Mergernomics: Bargaining Leverage 10/14/2024

#38 Mergernomics: Bargaining Leverage In the latest episode in our popular "Mergernomics" series, Compass Lexecon's Hélder Vasconcelos tells you everything you need to know about bargaining leverage theory - how to calculate it, what it means, and when to use it. Hosts Anant Raut and Paula Camara discuss with Dr. Vasconcelos how merger enforcers applied this theory in their reviews of the AT&T/Time Warner and Fresenius/NxStage mergers, and differences between the US and European approaches. The panel also talks about the challenges and limitations of using bargaining leverage theory. With special guests: Paula Camara, Partner, Matthos Filho, Veiga Filho, Marrey Jr. e Quiroga Advogados and Helder Vasconcelos, Senior Vice President, Compass Lexecon Hosted by: Anant Raut /episode/index/show/trustandtrade/id/33381132

#37 Mergernomics: Vertical Math 09/23/2024

#37 Mergernomics: Vertical Math By now in our popular "Mergernomics" series you've learned how to calculate the potential harm from a horizontal merger; but how do you measure the risk from a vertical merger? In this episode, Cornerstone Research's Dr. Craig Malam tells you everything you need to know about "Vertical Math" analysis in merger review - how to calculate it, what it tells you, and when to use it. Hosts Anant Raut and Analysis Group's Emily Cotton use Microsoft's controversial acquisition of video game maker Activision to discuss with Dr. Malam how to assess the risks of total or partial foreclosure from a vertical merger and how to use this analytical tool in relation to other economic tests in this series. With special guests: Dr. Craig Malam, Principal, Cornerstone Research and Emily Cotton, Managing Principal, Analysis Group Hosted by: Anant Raut /episode/index/show/trustandtrade/id/33088192

#36 An Oral History of the Capacitors Trial 09/02/2024

#36 An Oral History of the Capacitors Trial In this episode, listeners will hear the oral history of the landmark capacitors price-fixing case, a case that went to trial not once but twice in the midst of a worldwide pandemic. Attorneys for both the plaintiffs and the defense discuss their courtroom strategies, their approach to damages and guilty pleas, and adjustments they had to make on the fly in response to an unprecedented global health crisis. Later, presiding Judge James Donato shares his perspective on what worked well and what didn't, as well as advice he wishes every trial lawyer would follow, that no litigator will want to miss! With special guests: Christopher Young, Partner, Joseph Saveri Law Firm Steven Williams, Founder, Steven Williams Law P.C. David D. Cross, Partner, Goodwin Procter LLP Margaret A. Webb, Morrison & Foerster LLP The Hon. James Donato, United States District Judge, Northern District of California Hosted by: Anant Raut /episode/index/show/trustandtrade/id/32773712

#35 Mergernomics: GUPPIs 08/19/2024

#35 Mergernomics: GUPPIs In this episode of Trust and Trade, Dr. Elizabeth Wang, Executive VP of economic consulting firm Compass Lexecon, explains how antitrust enforcers use the Gross Upward Pricing Pressure Index (GUPPI) analysis to determine whether to stop a merger. Dr. Wang walks listeners through what the GUPPI test is, what it tells you, when to use it, and its advantages and limitations. Later, host Anant Raut and co-host NERA's Anton Kandalin discuss how the GUPPI test was used to challenge the Penguin Random House and Simon & Schuster mergers. With special guest: Dr. Elizabeth Wang, Executive Vice President, Compass Lexecon Hosted by: Anant Raut and Antonin Kaladin /episode/index/show/trustandtrade/id/32547917

#34 "Why Is My Grocery Bill So High?" 08/05/2024

#34 "Why Is My Grocery Bill So High?" Why are groceries more expensive than they were 4 years ago? In this episode, agriculture policy expert Austin Frerick and economist Tim Richards debate the impact of consolidation on food prices, and the role antitrust should play. Hosts Anant Raut, Evan Harris, and Erika Inwald later discuss the Federal Trade Commission's lawsuit to block the Kroger-Albertson's merger, and what to expect at trial later this month. With special guests: Austin Frerick, Fellow, Thurman Arnold Project (Yale University) and Dr. Timothy J. Richards, Morrison Chair of Agribusiness, W. P. Carey School of Business (Arizona State University) Hosted by: Anant Raut, Evan Harris, Morrison Foerster LLP, and Erika Inwald, Hausfeld LLP /episode/index/show/trustandtrade/id/32385922

#33 Mergernomics: Critical Loss 07/22/2024

#33 Mergernomics: Critical Loss In this episode you'll learn everything you need to know about the Critical Loss test used by enforcers to determine whether to block a merger - what it tells you, how to calculate it, and when to use it. Guest Ron Drennan, Economic Advisor to the DOJ Antitrust Division and former acting director of economics, explains how Critical Loss predicts the profitability of a post-merger price increase. Co-hosts Scott Scheele and Anant Raut later discuss real world cases where the Critical Loss test was used by the DOJ in litigation (H&R Block/TaxAct and Aetna/Humana), with mixed results. The latest in our "Mergernomics" series, demystifying the economic tools used in merger analysis! With special guest: Ronald Drennan, Economic Advisor, United States Department of Justice Antitrust Division Hosted by: Anant Raut and Scott Scheele, Kirkland & Ellis LLP /episode/index/show/trustandtrade/id/32145632

#32 The Non-Competes Ban 07/08/2024

#32 The Non-Competes Ban In this episode, Open Markets Institute's Sandeep Vaheesan and former acting FTC Chair Maureen Ohlhausen discuss the looming nationwide ban on noncompete clauses for workers and debate the roots and limits of the FTC's powers under Section 5 of the FTC Act. Host Anant Raut and co-host Scott Perlman talk about the legal challenges the ban is likely to face, and where Lina Khan's FTC may go next with the agency's interpretation of its own authority. With special guests: Sandeep Vaheesan, Legal Director, Open Markets Institute and Maureen Ohlhausen, Co-Chair of the Antitrust and Competition Practice, Wilson Sonsini Goodrich & Rosati Related Links: Hosted by: Anant Raut and Scott Perlman, Partner, Mayer Brown /episode/index/show/trustandtrade/id/31970207

#31 Mergernomics 06/24/2024

#31 Mergernomics This episode kicks off Trust and Trade's "Mergernomics" series, demystifying the economic analysis that antitrust enforcers use to predict whether a merger will harm competition and should be blocked. Host Anant Raut and co-host January Kim welcome Aditi Mehta, Economics Director for the DOJ Antitrust Division, to give an overview of the role of economists in merger review, common frameworks for understanding competitive harm, quirks of special markets like platforms and labor, and some of the most commonly-used tests to evaluate merger effects. With special guest: Aditi Mehta, Economics Director of Enforcement, Department of Justice Antitrust Division Hosted by: Anant Raut and January Kim, Counsel to the Director of Civil Enforcement, Department of Justice Antitrust Division /episode/index/show/trustandtrade/id/31838347

#30 Breaking Down the Closing Arguments in U.S. v Google 06/10/2024

#30 Breaking Down the Closing Arguments in U.S. v Google It's been called the "antitrust trial of the century" - U.S. v Google, the DOJ and state AGs' case against Google's alleged search monopoly. In this episode, we asked three of the top antitrust trial lawyers in the country to listen to the closing arguments in the case and talk about the tactics and strategies of both sides, the effectiveness of their arguments, and potential implications for ongoing antitrust cases against Amazon, Apple, and Google. With special guests: Tara Reinhart, Partner, Skadden, Arps, Slate, Meagher & Flom LLP, Kalpana Srinivasan, Managing Partner, Susman Godfrey LLP, and Dan McCuaig, Partner, Cohen Milstein Sellers & Toll PLLC Related Links: Hosted by: Anant Raut, Host, Trust and Trade and Christopher Graham, Associate, Sullivan & Cromwell LLP /episode/index/show/trustandtrade/id/31597007

#29 Oral History of the LCD Screens Case 01/22/2024

#29 Oral History of the LCD Screens Case US v AU Optronics, or, the LCD screens case, is one of the most important price-fixing cartel cases of the last 25 years. Now, for the first time, co-hosts Anant Raut and Anna Pletcher bring together lawyers from the prosecution, defense, and presiding Judge Susan Illston to recount some of the case's historic firsts, including the size of the financial harm, the extraterritorial reach of the Sherman Act, and the unique sentencing imposed. Get an inside take on the litigation strategies, the legal arguments, and the view from the bench in a one-of-its-kind account of this watershed case! With special guests: Hon. Susan Illston, Senior Judge, United States District Court for the Northern District of California, Heather Nyong'o, Partner, Cleary Gottlieb Steen & Hamilton LLP, Brent Snyder, Partner, Wilson Sonsini Goodrich & Rosati, and Patrick Robbins, former Partner, Shearman & Sterling LLP Related Links: Hosted by: Anant Raut and Anna Pletcher /episode/index/show/trustandtrade/id/29513723

#28 A Brief History of Privacy Enforcement by the FTC 11/20/2023

#28 A Brief History of Privacy Enforcement by the FTC The word "privacy" doesn't appear in the FTC Act, yet for 25 years, the FTC has used its limited resources and enforcement tools to act as the country's privacy enforcer. Past and current FTC leadership join host Anant Raut for this rousing look at the history of privacy enforcement by the FTC, and contemplate its future. In a world where the threats to privacy have grown manifold, has the Commission stretched the handful of words passed by Congress in 1938 as far as they can, and is it time for a new agency, empowered with fit-to-purpose authority, to take the baton for the next 25? With special guests: Samuel Levine, Director of the Bureau of Consumer Protection, Federal Trade Commission, Daniel Kaufman, Partner, BakerHostetler, and Maneesha Mithal, Partner, Wilson Sonsini Goodrich & Rosati LLP Hosted by: Anant Raut /episode/index/show/trustandtrade/id/28661078

#27 The Hidden Impact of the Shipping Act Exemption 10/23/2023

#27 The Hidden Impact of the Shipping Act Exemption Look around you - almost everything in your home or office was once on an ocean shipping vessel. Yet this essential area of commerce continues to enjoy one of the oldest exemptions from US antitrust law. Does this loophole keep prices low for consumers? Or does it raise prices for shippers and make supply shocks worse? Hosts Anant Raut and David Golden are joined by Shipping Act expert Melissa Maxman and the American Antitrust Institute's Kathleen Bradish to debate whether it's time to deep-six the Shipping Act antitrust exemption. With special guests: Kathleen Bradish, Acting President, American Antitrust Institute and Melissa Maxman, Partner, Cohen & Gresser LLP Related Links: Hosted by: Anant Raut and David Golden /episode/index/show/trustandtrade/id/28332515

#26 Lina Under Fire 09/25/2023

#26 Lina Under Fire Season 3 of Trust and Trade kicks off with an in-depth look at the heated turn in the relationship between the Federal Trade Commission and Congress, which broke into public view during a July oversight hearing by the House Judiciary Committee. Host Anant Raut and guest host John Villafranco welcome Katie McInnis (Chief Democratic Counsel to the subcommittee) and Nina Frant (former counsel to Commissioner Wilson) to discuss their insights from the hearing - what was said, how Chair Khan responded, and what this might mean for the FTC going forward. With special guests: Katie McInnis, Chief Democratic Counsel, House Judiciary Committee, Subcommittee on the Administrative State, Regulatory Reform, and Antitrust and Nina Frant, Vice President for Consumer Policy, U.S. Chamber of Commerce Hosted by: Anant Raut, John Villafranco, and Greg Fortsch /episode/index/show/trustandtrade/id/28113050

#25 The Rise, Fall, and Fallout of the FTC's 13(b) Monetary Remedies Authority 08/14/2023

#25 The Rise, Fall, and Fallout of the FTC's 13(b) Monetary Remedies Authority It was a Supreme Court case about 1 word, worth $1.2 billion dollars. But after SCOTUS killed the Federal Trade Commission's ability to get scam victims their money back, the FTC got creative. On this episode of Trust and Trade, Anant and Rich talk to a panel of former FTC-ers, including former Commissioner Phillips, about the FTC's ability to make fraud victims whole under Section 13b of the FTC Act. We learn about the history of this law, as well as the rise, fall, and resurgence of the FTC's monetary restitution authority. With special guests: Hon. Noah J. Phillips, Co-Chair of the Antitrust Practice, Cravath, Swaine & Moore LLP, Maneesha Mithal, Partner, Wilson, Sonsini, Goodrich & Rosati and Ioana Gorecki, Special Counsel, Kelley Drye & Warren LLP Hosted by: Anant Raut and Richard H. Cunningham /episode/index/show/trustandtrade/id/27706869

#24 The Delicate Dance of Joint Defense Groups 07/31/2023

#24 The Delicate Dance of Joint Defense Groups In this episode of Trust and Trade, Anant and Anna take us into the inner workings of joint defense groups, discussing the unique challenges of working together as a band of equals behind a common goal but sometimes with differing approaches and client interests. Guests David Cross and Dr. Laila Haider offer insights on decision-making, trust, and transparency when working in a joint defense group, and offer practice pointers on how to make them work more smoothly. With special guests: David Cross, Chair of the Antitrust Litigation Practice, Morrison & Foerster LLP and Dr. Laila Haider, Economist and Vice President, Charles River Associates Hosted by: Anant Raut and Anna Pletcher /episode/index/show/trustandtrade/id/27590592

#23 7 Tips for Putting On an Expert Witness 05/29/2023

#23 7 Tips for Putting On an Expert Witness To change antitrust policy, you have to win in court, and a key part of any civil trial is the expert witness. We invited a couple of veteran prosecutors to share their best tips and secrets. Whether you're preparing for your first trial or are a seasoned litigator seeking an edge in the courtroom, whether your next trial is bench or jury, there's something useful and surprising for everyone in this episode. With special guests: Steve Tugander, Acting Assistant Chief, US Department of Justice (New York office) and Bob Hubbard, Assistant Attorney General, Antitrust Bureau, New York Attorney General's Office Hosted by: Chris Young and Kathleen McMahon /episode/index/show/trustandtrade/id/26928333

#22 Biden at 2 04/17/2023

#22 Biden at 2 We debate the hits and misses from the first two years of antitrust enforcement under the Biden Administration, and make some predictions about what to expect in the next two years. With special guests: Eyitayo St. Matthew-Daniel, Partner, Paul, Weiss, Rifkind, Wharton & Garrison LLP and Lauren Willard, Partner, Covington & Burling LLP Hosted by: Anant Raut and Michael Murray /episode/index/show/trustandtrade/id/26550513

#21 The Miseducation of Antitrust Courts 03/20/2023

#21 The Miseducation of Antitrust Courts Have judges gone too far and become too reliant on economic experts in antitrust cases? Legendary plaintiffs' attorney Michael Hausfeld joins hosts Anant Raut and Travis Wheeler to talk about whether dueling professional economists either cancel each other out or decide the fate of antitrust cases, and the right way for judges and practitioners to think about their testimony. With special guest: Michael Hausfeld, Hausfeld LLP Hosted by: Anant Raut and Travis Wheeler /episode/index/show/trustandtrade/id/26263380

#20 Section 2 Criminals 01/16/2023

#20 Section 2 Criminals Would-be monopolists have traditionally faced fines and civil remedies; under the Biden Administration's more muscular enforcement of the Sherman Antitrust Act, they could face jail time as well. Law professor Travis Wheeler walks the former acting head of the DOJ Antitrust Division Richard Powers through some of the most famous monopolization cases in US legal history to help us understand where we could see criminal charges under the new regime. With special guests: Travis C. Wheeler, Nexsen | Pruet and Richard A. Powers, Fried, Frank, Harris, Shriver & Jacobson LLP Hosted by: Anant Raut /episode/index/show/trustandtrade/id/25581552

#19 Illumina/GRAIL 12/12/2022

#19 Illumina/GRAIL Dual challenges to the Illumina/GRAIL merger on both sides of the Atlantic underscore the differences between US and European approaches to mergers. A group of experts featuring a veteran of DG Comp and an FTC alum walk us through the procedural and litigation intricacies, what happened on both sides of the pond, and key lessons for practitioners about proposed behavioral fixes to embattled mergers. With special guests: Paul Csiszar, Unit Director, DG Comp and Jennifer Milici, Partner, WilmerHale Hosted by: Anant Raut and Bill Batchelor /episode/index/show/trustandtrade/id/25280316

#18 Communication Between Attorneys and Economists Recap 09/12/2022

#18 Communication Between Attorneys and Economists Recap This past February, Amara reported on a panel discussion hosted by the ABA Antitrust Law Section on attorney-economist communications and how to enhance efficiency in the relationship between attorneys and economists. We provide a recap of that programming. With special guest: Amara Conteh, Wilson Sonsini Goodrich and Rosati Hosted by: Gabriela Antonie, Cornerstone Research /episode/index/show/trustandtrade/id/24287097

#17 Machine Learning and Its Connection to Antitrust 07/15/2022

#17 Machine Learning and Its Connection to Antitrust Summary of a recent panel on ML and antitrust. With special guest: Masha Melkonyan Hosted by: Gabriela Antonie /episode/index/show/trustandtrade/id/23636792

#16 Cryptocurrency Primer for In-House Counsel 05/20/2022

#16 Cryptocurrency Primer for In-House Counsel This podcast will cover the basics of cryptocurrency, discuss recent regulatory developments in this area, provide an overview of what keeps in-house counsel dealing with cryptocurrency issues up at night and tips on how to navigate the challenging space. With special guest: Nguyen Vu, Associate General Counsel – Payments, Bolt Hosted by: Annie M. Ugurlayan, Assistant Director, BBB National Programs' National Advertising Division /episode/index/show/trustandtrade/id/23129015

#15 Presenting Expert Witness Testimony in Antitrust Trials 05/19/2022

#15 Presenting Expert Witness Testimony in Antitrust Trials Tips and tricks for lawyers who are new to presenting expert witnesses at trial and reflections on the importance of eliciting effective expert testimony in antitrust cases. With special guest: Eric Hochstadt, Partner, Weil, Gotshal and Manges LLP Hosted by: Katherine Kelly Fell, Associate, Milbank LLP, Vice President of Trial Practice Committee of ABA Antitrust Section /episode/index/show/trustandtrade/id/23128871

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