Unproductive Labor

A podcast about work, the work ethic, what it means to be a productive member of society, working conditions today, and the history of how we got here. So, yeah, we cover a lot of ground.

Non-compete Agreements and Corporate Subsidies with Pat Garofalo 03/16/2023

Non-compete Agreements and Corporate Subsidies with Pat Garofalo This episode I’m pleased to be speaking with Pat Garofalo. Pat is the director of state and local policy at the American Economic Liberties Project and author of ‘The Billionaire Boondoggle: How Our Politicians Let Corporations and Bigwigs Steal Our Money and Jobs.” He also writes the Boondoggle substack. We’ll be talking about a grab bag of topics including noncompete agreements and corporate subsidies. Contact US Twitter: @PublicSeminar, @lmergner, @pete_sinnott Email: [email protected] Credits Producer: Daniel Fermín Music: Composed and performed by Samuel Haines. Artwork: Daniel Fermín /episode/index/show/unproductivelaborpod/id/26247948

The Problems and Possibilities of Graeber’s BS Jobs with Matteo Tiratelli 02/08/2023

The Problems and Possibilities of Graeber’s BS Jobs with Matteo Tiratelli In this episode, I talk to Matteo Tiratelli about bullshit jobs. Tiratelli recently published an article in the journal Catalyst exploring the problems and insights of David Graeber’s well known theory Tiratelli is a lecturer at UCL's Social Research Institute where he teaches historical and political sociology. His previous research has focussed on the ideological transformation of European socialism, the history of rioting in Britain, and the political economy of crime. He is currently starting a project examining the evolution of the British prison system over the twentieth century. He has an article just out in Political Quarterly which critiques the widely held belief that most people have moderate political opinions with a few extremists at either end. He occasionally tweets @MatteoTiratelli. Contact US Twitter: @PublicSeminar, @pete_sinnott Email: [email protected] Credits Producer: Daniel Fermín Music: Composed and performed by Samuel Haines. Artwork: Daniel Fermín /episode/index/show/unproductivelaborpod/id/25866993

Essential Workers and Labor Activism During the Pandemic: An Interview with Jamie McCallum 01/26/2023

Essential Workers and Labor Activism During the Pandemic: An Interview with Jamie McCallum This episode, I talk to sociologist Jamie McCallum about his new book, Essential: How the Pandemic Transformed the Long Fight for Worker Justice. We talk about working conditions and unemployment during the pandemic, labor activism, and glimpses of working class unity. McCallum is a professor of sociology at Middlebury College. His writing has appeared in the Washington Post, Mother Jones, Dissent, and Jacobin, and his last book Worked Over looked at the quantity and quality of time we spend on and off the clock. You can get in touch with him through his website: . Contact US Twitter: @PublicSeminar, @lmergner, @pete_sinnott Email: [email protected] Credits Producer: Daniel Fermín Music: Composed and performed by Samuel Haines. Artwork: Daniel Fermín /episode/index/show/unproductivelaborpod/id/25734807

We’ll Always Need to Work: An Interview with Alex Gourevitch 01/12/2023

We’ll Always Need to Work: An Interview with Alex Gourevitch In this episode, my erstwhile cohost, Luke Mergner, and I talk to Alex Gourevitch who published a piece last year in Catalyst that levied a critique of anti-work discourse and universal basic income. We talk to Alex about what the anti-work and post-work crowd get wrong in their thinking about work and the future. Alex is an associate professor of political science at Brown University. He is currently writing a book on the political ethics of strikes and a book on shared labor socialism. He has written for Jacobin, Dissent, and other publications. /episode/index/show/unproductivelaborpod/id/25580727

Inflation, the Labor Market, and Inequality: Two Interviews 11/02/2022

Inflation, the Labor Market, and Inequality: Two Interviews This week a double episode, first a discussion about inflation and the labor market with Brian Callaci, chief economist at the Open Market Institute. Then an interview with political scientist David Lay Williamas about the inequality today and its place in the history of western political thought. Brian Callaci is the Chief Economist at the Open Markets Institute, a Washington DC-based think tank focused on antimonopoly policy. He co-authored an article in Dissent in July titled David Lay WIlliams is Professor of Political Science at DePaul University and author of a forthcoming book on economic inequality in Western political thought. He wrote a recent essay in Public Seminar, /episode/index/show/unproductivelaborpod/id/24888753

Violence and Class Solidarity 10/20/2022

Violence and Class Solidarity This episode, Pete interviews Chad Pearson about his new book, (University of North Carolina Press, 2022). They talk about the use of violence to discipline workers, labor battles in the long nineteenth century, the need to study the way business owners organized nationally to fight unionization, and more. Chad Pearson is a labor historian primarily interested in ruling class organizations and violence in the late nineteenth and early twentieth centuries. He has authored two books: Capital's Terrorists and Reform or Repression: Organizing America's Anti-Union Movement (University of Pennsylvania Press, 2016). Additionally, he is co-editor with Rosemary Feurer of Against Labor: How US Employers Organized to Defeat Union Activism (University of Illinois Press, 2017). Finally, I have published essays in Counterpunch, History Compass, Jacobin, Journal of Labor and Society, Labor History, Labour/Le Travail, and Monthly Review. Contact US Twitter: @PublicSeminar, @pete_sinnott Email: [email protected] Credits Producer: Daniel Fermín Music: Composed and performed by Samuel Haines. Artwork: Daniel Fermín /episode/index/show/unproductivelaborpod/id/24754521

What Austerity Has done to Care Work and Care Workers: An Interview with Emma Dowling 05/06/2022

What Austerity Has done to Care Work and Care Workers: An Interview with Emma Dowling In this episode I talk to Emma Dowling about her book, In the book, Dowling connects the recent history of privatization, austerity, and financialization to the decline in the availability and quality of care. Her book asks us to think about what care is for recipients and care workers, paid and unpaid, and how the influence of social impact investors and other forms of private finance distort and twist the fundamental human need and social function for the sake of extracting profits. Emma Dowling is a sociologist and political scientist and teaches at the University of Vienna. She previously held academic positions in Germany and the UK. Her research interests include political economies of unpaid work, financialisation and welfare state restructuring, work & emotions, and care and social reproduction. The Care Crisis has just come out in paperback with a new afterword on Covid-19 and care. Contact US Twitter: @PublicSeminar, @lmergner, @pete_sinnott Email: [email protected] Credits Producer: Daniel Fermín Music: Composed and performed by Samuel Haines. Artwork: Daniel Fermín /episode/index/show/unproductivelaborpod/id/23026772

Why We Need Unions: A Conversation with Eve Livingston 04/01/2022

Why We Need Unions: A Conversation with Eve Livingston This episode I talk to Eve Livingston, author of . We discuss the need to organize unions to meet the challenges of work today and the need to build connections between unions and community organizations outside the workplace. Eve Livingston is a Scotland-based freelance journalist specializing in social affairs, inequalities and industrial relations. She has worked for The Guardian, The Independent, VICE and the Bureau of Investigative Journalism among many others and has appeared on TV and radio including BBC Woman's Hour and ITV News. In 2018 she was one of Young Women Scotland's 30 under 30, and in 2019 she was shortlisted for an Orwell Prize. In 2021 she published her first book, Make Bosses Pay: Why We Need Unions, about young workers and trade unions in the UK. She can be found on twitter @eve_rebecca Contact US Twitter: @PublicSeminar, @lmergner, @pete_sinnott Email: [email protected] Credits Producer: Daniel Fermín Music: Composed and performed by Samuel Haines. Artwork: Daniel Fermín /episode/index/show/unproductivelaborpod/id/22643558

The Great Resignation, a Delayed Reaction 03/11/2022

The Great Resignation, a Delayed Reaction This week my erstwhile cohost and collaborator, Luke, and I have a free-flowing conversation about the Great Resignation. This was a hot topic last fall as 4.5 million Americans quit their jobs in November 2021 and 4.3 Million in August of 2021. That’s according to . We discuss how varying factors drove this phenomenon in different sectors of the economy, or at least the common narratives that have been deployed to explain this for white and blue collar workers. We also discuss the impact of and the connection or lack of connection to other trends such as drives to unionize in the service, education, and care sectors. Contact US Twitter: @PublicSeminar, @lmergner, @pete_sinnott Email: [email protected] Credits Producer: Daniel Fermín Music: Composed and performed by Samuel Haines. Artwork: Daniel Fermín /episode/index/show/unproductivelaborpod/id/22412501

An Interview with Peter Linebaugh on the Commons, Crime, and the Meanings of Industry and Idleness 02/25/2022

An Interview with Peter Linebaugh on the Commons, Crime, and the Meanings of Industry and Idleness In this episode, I’m joined by Peter Linebaugh, a historian whose thinking and writing about the commons spans the entirety of a quite distinguished career. His books include The London Hanged, The Magna Carta Manifesto, Stop Thief, Red Round Globe Hot Burning, and, with Marcus Rediker, The Many Headed Hydra. His writing combines a rigorous historical understanding grounded in the archives with a deep concern for and critique of the present, a difficult balancing act to pull off. We talk about the commons in history and today, the meaning of industry and idleness, crime and the police, and Linebaugh’s approach to the discipline of history. Contact US Twitter: @PublicSeminar, @lmergner, @pete_sinnott Email: [email protected] Credits Producer: Daniel Fermín Music: Composed and performed by Samuel Haines. Artwork: Daniel Fermín What We Talked About The commons and commoning Christopher Hill David Graeber and David Wengrow Adam Smith Policing /episode/index/show/unproductivelaborpod/id/22250594

Company Unions and Why Voters Don’t Care about Policy: An Interview with Matt Bruenig 02/11/2022

Company Unions and Why Voters Don’t Care about Policy: An Interview with Matt Bruenig This episode, I’m talking with Matt Bruenig, founder of the People’s Policy Project or 3Ps, a think tank in Washington D.C. We discuss Marco Rubio’s and Jim Banks’ proposed Teamwork for Employees and Managers bill, a piece of legislation that would make it easier for corporations to establish “employee involvement organizations. The bill is not likely to go anywhere or change very much if it did, so what was the point? Matt and I discuss this bill, company unions, and conservative attempts to appeal to working class voters. The patreon page for 3Ps is here: Matt’s Twitter handle is @MattBruenig Contact US Twitter: @PublicSeminar, @lmergner, @pete_sinnott Email: [email protected] Credits Producer: Daniel Fermín Music: Composed and performed by Samuel Haines. Artwork: Daniel Fermín What We Talked About You can find Matt’s article on the Teamwork Bill here: Teamwork Bill: Marco Rubio in the Atlantic: /episode/index/show/unproductivelaborpod/id/22097258

The Need for a Shorter Working Week with Kyle Lewis and Will Stronge 01/28/2022

The Need for a Shorter Working Week with Kyle Lewis and Will Stronge This episode, Pete interviews Will Strong and Kyle Lewis about their book Overtime: Why We Need a Shorter Working Week. They talk about work time and its connection to feminist and environmental discourses, the pitfalls of talking about work as abstraction, and the benefits of shorter working week for everyone. Kyle is a PhD candidate at the University of West London and a working-time consultant for the think tank Autonomy. Will Stronge is the Director of Research at Autonomy and a post doctoral researcher in Politics and Philosophy at the University of Brighton. You can find Will on Twitter @w_stronge and Kyle can be found @autonomous_coys. Contact US Twitter: @PublicSeminar, @lmergner, @pete_sinnott Email: [email protected] Credits Producer: Daniel Fermín Music: Composed and performed by Samuel Haines. Artwork: Daniel Fermín What We Talked About by Will Stronge and Kyle Lewis by Kathi Weeks “” by Jack Kellam, Will Stronge, and Joe Ryle. /episode/index/show/unproductivelaborpod/id/21929060

What Weber and Foucault Get Wrong about Institutions: An Interview with Steven Klein about the Welfare State 01/07/2022

What Weber and Foucault Get Wrong about Institutions: An Interview with Steven Klein about the Welfare State Steven Klein is a Lecturer of Political Theory in the Department of Political Economy, King’s College London. His first book, The Work of Politics: Making a Democratic Welfare State (CUP 2020), examines the democratic potential of struggles over welfare institutions /episode/index/show/unproductivelaborpod/id/21701480

The Genius (and Fraud) of Frederick Taylor, Covid Capitalism, and Other Topics: An Interview with Jamie McCallum 12/16/2021

The Genius (and Fraud) of Frederick Taylor, Covid Capitalism, and Other Topics: An Interview with Jamie McCallum This week, I talk to sociologist Jamie K. McCallum about his book Worked Over, how the ethos of Silicon Valley shapes our work ethic, the genius and deceptions of Frederick Taylor, what Covid 19 has taught us about work in the 21st Century, and more. /episode/index/show/unproductivelaborpod/id/21511847

The Long Con: Scarcity and the Origins of Virtue 12/03/2021

The Long Con: Scarcity and the Origins of Virtue The threat of scarcity, the promise of wealth, the problematic rhetoric of wage labor as a form of slavery, and the not so straight line between seventeenth century attacks on the commons and neoliberal welfare reform. /episode/index/show/unproductivelaborpod/id/21366173

The Hope of Pleasure in What you Make 11/19/2021

The Hope of Pleasure in What you Make In his book, Breaking Things at Work, Gavin Meuller argues that we can’t think of technology in the workplace as “just” a tool but always as a tool created for a specific purpose to benefit specific groups and exploit others. As such, breaking machines in the workplace--which means many things--has been and will continue to be an important point of struggle for establishing worker autonomy, solidarity, and fair treatment. /episode/index/show/unproductivelaborpod/id/21217232

The Origins of Wage Labor 11/04/2021

The Origins of Wage Labor Wage labor is one of the core principles for organizing our lives in western societies. How did that happen? We attempt to answer that question in 20 minutes, moving backward from Keynes to seventeenth century England to Virgil’s Georgics. It’s quite a ride. We also talk about farming. /episode/index/show/unproductivelaborpod/id/21056615

Human Evolution Has Left Us Ill-Prepared 11/04/2021

Human Evolution Has Left Us Ill-Prepared In this episode, we have a conversation with Emily Guendelsberger, author of What Low-Wage Work Did to Me and How It Drives America Insane. She worked at Philadelphia City Paper, the Onion’s A.V. Club, Philadelphia Weekly, and the Philadelphia Daily News, and has contributed to the Philadelphia Inquirer, the Washington Post, Politico magazine, and Vice. /episode/index/show/unproductivelaborpod/id/21056546

Work Society and Unworked Community 11/04/2021

Work Society and Unworked Community James Chamberlain is an Associate Professor of Political Science at Mississippi State University. His dissertation, Undoing Work, Rethinking Community, was published in 2020. It explores some of the normative and theoretical questions around the topic of work. /episode/index/show/unproductivelaborpod/id/21056468

The Terrible Consequences of Solving the Economic Problem 07/21/2021

The Terrible Consequences of Solving the Economic Problem In this episode, we talk to James Livingston about his book No More Work: Why Full Employment is a Bad Idea, a pithy polemic that questions some of the underlying assumptions about work held by both the Left and the Right. /episode/index/show/unproductivelaborpod/id/21056588

For Only $184 million You Can Have a Bespoke Labor Category For Your Business 06/07/2021

For Only $184 million You Can Have a Bespoke Labor Category For Your Business Description: In this episode, we have a conversation with Alex Press, a staff writer at Jacobin magazine who covers a range of topics around labor in the United States, including the gig economy. /episode/index/show/unproductivelaborpod/id/21056357

The Problem with Work 06/01/2021

The Problem with Work This is the first episode of Unproductive Labor, a podcast made with support from Public Seminar. /episode/index/show/unproductivelaborpod/id/21029051

Unproductive Labor

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