Zoo Logic

Zoo Logic with animal trainer, zoo advocate, and ZOOmility author, Dr. Grey Stafford, is a weekly conversation with zoo, aquarium, and animal experts about Nature, wildlife, pets, animal training with positive reinforcement, health and welfare, research, conservation, and education, sustainability, zoo politics, activism and legislation, and all things animals! On Zoo Logic, we’ll go behind the scenes with animal professionals and influencers from around the world to explore the latest Zoos News and issues affecting wildlife, wild places, and people. Communicating with humor, cool stories, and candor, we’ll discover the interdependent connection between civilization, conservation, and commerce.

New England Aquarium pt 2 03/13/2025

New England Aquarium pt 2 It's our second installment talking with the management team at New England Aquarium following our recent three-day onsite visit with the pinniped and penguin department. With so much institutional and operant conditioning change affecting not only the animals' overall management through greater training and enrichment, but the employees' work experiences and responsibilities, how are the aquarium's leaders helping their teams adjust and thrive? We talk with Associate Curators, Patty Leonard and Eric Fox along with managers, Rebekah Miller and Diana Major. /episode/index/show/zoologic/id/35664205

New England Aquarium 03/06/2025

New England Aquarium We are on location at the New England Aquarium talking with long time animal trainer and curator of pinnipeds and penguins, Kristen McMahon. Under her guidance, this unique department has successfully blended animal care providers from different taxa into one productive training team which has improved the social well-being of all the animals. Kristen discusses the aquarium's focus not only on improving animal welfare and training efficiency, but also the work-life balance for all employees. /episode/index/show/zoologic/id/35554125

petKORE: Enrichment for All Species 02/27/2025

petKORE: Enrichment for All Species Since he was a young boy, KONG company founder, Joe Markham has been fascinated with animals of every kind. He credits his German Shepherd, Fritz with providing him long ago the inspiration for the famous beehive shaped pet toy. His latest venture is a labor of love to produce training and enrichment devices suitable for underserved zoo, aquarium, equine and farm species. Joining in the conversation about the challenges of developing larger natural rubber based toys for exotic species is long time animal trainer, Chuck Tompkins. According to Joe, making one of anything is relatively easy....and expensive. The key to manufacturing success is being able to produce many, efficiently and at a reasonable price that customers can afford. To that end Joe has spearheaded new technology and rubber blends to make larger products possible. With the initial enrichment products available now, Joe is excited to see how animal professionals will utilize these items in unique and creative ways for the well being of all animals. /episode/index/show/zoologic/id/35453105

Fustercluck 02/20/2025

Fustercluck The new U.S. administration has put forth a slew of federal employee firings, funding freezes and cancellations, and agency reprioritizations since assuming office barely 1 month ago. One of the most notable moves has been the dismantling of USAID and a funding pause or in some instances, the elimination of the agency's projects to feed, educate, and/ or medically treat vulnerable communities around the globe. However, it's not just humans that will feel the effects of this humanitarian funding gap. Unknown to many, USAID also supports sustainable use, wildlife conservation, and habitat preservation efforts as well. While the agency's budget was nearly $60 billion, the monies dedicated to conservation totaled less than $400 million--a sizable amount for most taxpayers, but a literal drop in the bucket for the US government's yearly budget. Ashoka Mukpo, staff writer for Mongabay.com, an independent media organization reporting on Nature and planetary challenges, the immediate and downstream effects of this globally significant funding loss to international conservation groups working in the field to enable humans and animals to co-exist. /episode/index/show/zoologic/id/35359910

Dixie Chicks 02/13/2025

Dixie Chicks The Mississippi Aquarium in Gulfport recently announced the successful hatching of 2 endangered black-footed penguins. As a newer facility in a medium sized city, President and CEO Kurt Allen returns to discuss the State's historic hatchlings, the challenges of meeting public and financial expectations, and the importance of remaining adaptable to meet customer needs. /episode/index/show/zoologic/id/35265610

A Trainer Elephants Will Never Forget 02/06/2025

A Trainer Elephants Will Never Forget The zoological community lost an important colleague recently with the passing of Jeff Andrews. First a long-time orca trainer and curator for SeaWorld, Jeff eventually took his talents to the terrestrial side to manage elephants. Not satisfied with the status quo of elephant management at that time, which was largely based on establishing a dominance hierarchy through punishment with the trainer as the leader, Jeff adapted the skills he learned using positive reinforcement with orcas and applied them to elephants. As with any credible data-driven challenge to the way things are done, Jeff delighted in the flak he often received from the elephant management establishment. Two of the people that knew Jeff best during the industry's transformation from free to protected contact, Erin Ivory and Thad Lacinak share memories of Jeff's contributions to improving animal welfare. /episode/index/show/zoologic/id/35170440

Political Animals 01/30/2025

Political Animals With a new administration and one party control of both houses in Congress, the impact on animal-related legislation, facility oversight, and code enforcement is likely to change from the previous administration. Tom Albert, government affairs consultant for the Zoological Association of America discusses the differing historical perspectives of the two major political parties on the role of zoos as well as steps professionals can take to help garner more bipartisan support for the work of zoos and aquariums at home and globally. Animal Care /episode/index/show/zoologic/id/35078215

Remembering Karen Pryor 01/23/2025

Remembering Karen Pryor The animal and behavior training world lost a true revolutionary recently with the passing of Karen Pryor. Prolific writer, scientist, trainer, lecturer, and business woman with an entertainer's spirit, she changed the exotic and domestic animal training world forever with her ever popular book, Don't Shoot the Dog. She followed up her writing successes with the launch of Clicker Training and legions of trainers, students and fans, workshops, Karen Pryor Academy, and much much more by advancing the use of those mechanical behavioral markers and reward-based operant conditioning across the globe. Her longtime friend and colleague, Terry Ryan of Legacy Canine, shares her earliest memories of meeting, traveling, learning from, and working with Karen for decades. /episode/index/show/zoologic/id/34962720

Los Angeles Fires 01/16/2025

Los Angeles Fires Julia Wilder, Executive Director of ZDR3 () returns to discuss the unfolding fires in Los Angeles. While her team is not presently deployed on scene, they are coordinating help through local MOU members as was one of the original goals of the now 200 facility member strong group across nearly 40 states. Julia describes how the risks and response to wild land fires are different in nature and immediacy compared to the hurricane disasters ZDR3 has been called in to assist with as recently as this past fall. Plus, we remember the life and impact on improving elephant welfare and training with the recent passing of colleague Jeff Andrews. /episode/index/show/zoologic/id/34860745

A Marmoset By Any Other Name 01/09/2025

A Marmoset By Any Other Name Director of Research for the , Dr. Kelly Jaakkola returns to discuss her upcoming free webinar summarizing recent dolphin cognition studies hosted by the and her just published invited to a paper in the journal Science about marmosets supposed use of individual names. Few species have been shown to use names much like we humans do as labels to identify specific individuals. She discusses how authors of a recent study that relied on machine learning to analyze common marmoset "phee calls" found patterns which they suggest indicate the use of these calls as individual names. Dr. Jaakkola suggests in her rebuttal that while the computer methodology seems sound and exciting for future investigative work, there is another explanation which fits the data better than the authors' interpretation that marmosets are using these calls as names like humans or dolphins do. /episode/index/show/zoologic/id/34782860

Looking Back and Ahead 01/02/2025

Looking Back and Ahead With this first episode of Zoo Logic in the New Year, we hand this week's hosting duties over to our number one supporter and spouse of nearly 35 years, Karen Stafford to review key issues from the previous zoological year and the regular host's thoughts on the new podcast year ahead. /episode/index/show/zoologic/id/34693045

What the Chicken Knows 12/26/2024

What the Chicken Knows On the heels of 2023's Secrets of the Octopus, award-winning and best-selling author, Sy Montgomery returns to discuss her latest title, What the Chicken Knows from . As with all of her books about animals and Nature, Sy does her research. In this case much of her source material came from decades of raising, observing, and learning from chickens... and those that love and study them. As a prolific and successful writer, Sy offers some suggestions to listeners who think about writing their own book. Animal professionals and fans will appreciate her long list of titles covering dolphins, apes, big cats, turtles, humming birds and many more species, plus her full support for the zoological community and its vital impact on conservation. /episode/index/show/zoologic/id/34616680

Tongue Worm Invasion 12/19/2024

Tongue Worm Invasion Jenna Palmisano is a doctoral student at the University of Central Florida tracking a parasitic tongue worm infecting nearly 2 dozen native species of snake, including the pygmy rattlesnake, and other ectotherms in central and southern Florida. While much is not known about this parasite, often referred to as a lung worm when it is actually a type of crustacean, it is believed to have been introduced by the many diverse invasive species, especially Burmese Pythons that are now endemic to Florida's rich biodiverse ecosystems. Jenna's field tracking and molecular work are attempting to identify where and at what rate the infestation has spread and to better understand the complex life cycle of this organism which has contributed to signifiant declines in native snake species. She helps manage a to inform the public of this invasive disease and to recruit anecdotal data from citizen scientists. /episode/index/show/zoologic/id/34518025

Latest Avian Flu Devastating Wild and Domestic Populations 12/12/2024

Latest Avian Flu Devastating Wild and Domestic Populations Veterinary epidemiologist, Dr. Dominic Travis, Chief Programs Officer for the returns to discuss the virulent and usually lethal strain of avian influenza affecting a variety of species, especially marine mammals. Given the COVID pandemic fatigue felt across society, it is important not to let our guard down about monitoring for known risks such as influenza which has been front and center among researchers, clinicians, and public health agencies for decades. Celebrating its 50th anniversary, The Marine Mammal Center has rescued more than 26,000 marine mammals along 600 miles of California coastline and the Big Island of Hawai‘i. The TMMC team endeavors to advance ocean health through marine mammal rescue and rehabilitation, research, and education. /episode/index/show/zoologic/id/34407175

Before You Burn That Bridge or Leave the Animal Field 12/05/2024

Before You Burn That Bridge or Leave the Animal Field As part of Zoo Logic's year-long look at the well-being of animal care professionals, we invited a very special guest with Human Resources expertise across all aspects of the employer-employee spectrum. Karen Stafford is an HR veteran of Fortune 500 corporate and non-profit organizations, as well as, a professor at the W.P. Carey School of Business at Arizona State University. She's also knowledgeable about the zoo and aquarium space having witnessed more animal training shows, TV appearances and late night feedings of wild animals in her guest bathroom than any spouse of 34 years should have to endure! Karen offers helpful advice to those professionals considering leaving their dream job or profession due to hostile work environments, difficult coworkers, and/or inexperienced supervisors and managers. What steps should employers do to invest in better trained mangers to improve the overall work environment for every staff member and by doing so, improve retention? Before walking away, what steps can we as employees do to preserve our career paths, improve our own situation, and re-connect with the passion we all feel or once felt caring for and conserving animals in our care and in the wild. Ikigai - A Japanese concept for that which gives your life meaning, purpose, or worth. Similar to French "Raison d'etre": The Standout Assessment: Myers Briggs Type Indicator (similar) to help you understand key personality patterns to unlock professional & personal success: Love+Work by Marcus Buckingham The Happiness Advantage by Shawn Achor /episode/index/show/zoologic/id/34296370

Sea Lion and K-9 Officer Cross Training 11/28/2024

Sea Lion and K-9 Officer Cross Training The marine mammal team at Wildlife World Zoo, met with K-9 law enforcement officers from Prescott Arizona at the park last month to talk and demonstrate animal training principles. This follows a long tradition over the past 25 years or more, set by other representatives from facilities such as the US Navy dolphin program and SeaWorld, of these two very different training communities working to share creative solutions, best practices, and very different work environment requirements. According to Wildlife World's Krysta Henderson who manages the sea lion facility and K-9 coordinator, Officer Kyle Alltop it was motivating to see how the other group responds to behavioral challenges and fostering animal motivation to learn. This was the first of many planned joint sessions where teams from both organizations and surrounding law enforcement agencies in Central Arizona plan to work and learn together. Animal Care /episode/index/show/zoologic/id/34184995

Modern Miracle Dolphin 11/21/2024

Modern Miracle Dolphin Recently, the marine mammal team at announced they had tracked and located a male spotted dolphin the facility had rescued, rehabilitated and returned to the ocean over 5 years ago under the auspices of the company's Blue Project Foundation. The successful return of this animal was due in large part to a series of fortunate factors including the longitudinal study of these resident dolphins. In fact, scientists knew of this animal, its birth year, dam, and migration habits long before it was found stranded and near death at age 9. Thanks to this field evidence and the generous contributions from scientists in the Bahamas and the US including Dr Randy Wells at Sarasota Dolphin Research Project, Brookfield Zoo Chicago, the team at the Dolphin Communication Project, the Wild Dolphin Project and others, the animal not only was returned to health and eventually the ocean, but he has since thrived having rejoined his social group. Vice President of Marine Mammal Operations for Atlantis, Ted Turner describes this historic journey for this extraordinary animal nicknamed "M & M." /episode/index/show/zoologic/id/34073216

Primates for Me, Not for Thee 11/14/2024

Primates for Me, Not for Thee Recently, the Association of Zoos and Aquariums () announced a new primate ambassador policy that essentially curtails the practice of having closer contact between primates and the public. Primatologist, Dr. Samantha Russak, Chief of Welfare and Research for in Goddard Kansas joins Zoo Logic to discuss the new policy's drawbacks and inconsistencies at a time when hand-rearing primates has largely gone the way of the dodo in accredited facilities. In addition, Dr. Sam touches on the Well-Being Summit put on by AZA this past week which included key speakers from anti-zoo and aquarium organizations lecturing zoo professionals on welfare practices. /episode/index/show/zoologic/id/33919226

Nasty Names Are Hurtful 11/07/2024

Nasty Names Are Hurtful Dr. Rick LeCouteur is a retired veterinary neurosurgeon originally from Australia. His new children's book entitled Nasty Names Are Hurtful: An Australian white ibis responds to name-calling in the city highlights the repercussions of human activities on wild habitats and underscores the importance of empathy and acceptance. Young readers will learn about a resilient species once on the verge of extinction that has since adapted to the loss of wetlands by surviving in urban areas. /episode/index/show/zoologic/id/33787322

Zoological Recovery From Helene and Milton 10/31/2024

Zoological Recovery From Helene and Milton The Executive Director and co-founder of Zoological Disaster Response, Rescue and Recovery (), Julia Wilder returns to discuss her organization's efforts to assist zoological facilities in the wake of back-to-back hurricanes, Helene and Milton. With nearly 200 USDA licensed animal facilities joined together to provide mutual aid to institutions in distress, ZDR3 has already surpassed all expectations in its 5-year history. Julia describes her team's actions prior to, during and following these most recent devastating storms, as well as, ideas to enhance and improve national coordination so that mutual aid meets facilities where they are and provides them what they need, not just what people want to offer. /episode/index/show/zoologic/id/33698987

The State of Higher Education 10/24/2024

The State of Higher Education Retired Kent State University professor, researcher and administrator, Dr. James Blank joins his former graduate student to discuss the state of flux of higher education in America. How are changing demographics in a post pandemic era affecting university budgets and how are these institutions adapting to the rapid pace of change? In terms of the sciences, what opportunities exist for those interested in a career involving some aspect of biology, especially field-related work? Dr. Blank suggests that the funding pendulum that greatly favored cellular and molecular studies over the past several decades leading to incredible advancements in technology to answer complex questions about the cell and genes has swung back to include training scientists to examine system level problems, particularly from a multidisciplinary perspective. He advises students considering a career in biological sciences to focus on developing their problem-solving, writing, and speaking skills in order to remain adaptable (and employable) in an age where information and careers are changing every 3 to 5 years, rather than the 20 plus years when he began his career. /episode/index/show/zoologic/id/33592972

Deep Water 10/17/2024

Deep Water James Bradley, an award winning author of fiction has just released his latest title, a non-fiction book entitled Deep Water: the world in the ocean. It is a "blend of history, nature writing, and environmental science" giving readers insights into the mysteries of the ocean and "humanity's complex connections to the seas." In one passage, James describes the surprisingly complex life cycle of Antarctic krill, its vast biomass often visible from space, and the source of energy for so many species including fish, penguins, and whales. Yet krill are declining in key areas that threaten the entire polar food chain for reasons from the obvious, such as overfishing in critical habits, to the species' more complicated and dependent relationship on winter sea ice. Sea ice that has dramatically declined in recent years due to climate change. The book celebrates the countless researchers past and present working to unlock the ocean's deepest secrets. /episode/index/show/zoologic/id/33492777

Career Educator 10/10/2024

Career Educator Long time zoo and aquarium educator, Terran McGinnis discusses her passion for informal education from her earliest days as a park naturalist. From great storytelling to laughter, she describes some of the most effective ways to reach audiences of all ages. As she steps down from chairing the education committee for the after many years of service to the zoological community, Terran talks about how the industry has learned from its earlier push to share "just the facts" about animals, in hopes of avoiding the appearance of anthropomorphism, to weaving in more of the powerful emotional side of working with and preserving species for future generations. /episode/index/show/zoologic/id/33400402

ABMA Behavior Month 10/03/2024

ABMA Behavior Month This October marks the Animal Behavior Management Alliance's () fourth annual Behavior Month featuring daily animal training videos from zoological professionals from around the globe. The goal is to share training ideas and examples to enhance species' well-being in zoos, aquariums, as well as with companion animals. These contributions are to anyone interested in animals and the science of operant conditioning through positive reinforcement. Plus, our colleagues at (ZDR3.org) provide a brief update on response efforts in the wake of hurricane Helene. /episode/index/show/zoologic/id/33308947

Escape From Extinction: Rewilding 09/26/2024

Escape From Extinction: Rewilding According to and its leadership team, the newly released sequel to 2020's award-winning "Escape from Extinction," introduces the science of "rewilding," a proven method for sustainable conservation that has the potential to bring back hundreds of thousands of species from the brink of extinction. Dr. Robin Ganzert, President and CEO of American Humane and the film's Executive Producer, along with Director and producer from MRB Productions, Matthew Brady, discuss the science and optimism behind rewilding projects from all over the world. The examples in "Escape From Extinction Rewilding" suggest the long held promise of modern zoological facilities and the professionals that care for threatened and endangered species to safeguard and return species into the wild in a manner that is beneficial to local communities is real. It's happening with greater success and sense of urgency as more habitats and species face threats from human activities such as climate change, pollution, encroachment, overfishing and so on. The film is in theaters in select cites now with streaming planned for later this year. /episode/index/show/zoologic/id/33192777

Survival of the Fitness 09/19/2024

Survival of the Fitness Peter Giljam is a long time animal trainer and cofounder of the training resources website Zoospensefull.com. In his spare time from his role as Behavioral Curator at SeaWorld Australia, he's also developed into an avid triathlon athlete. We asked him about his physical and mental health journey since COVID and whether the pain, frustration, dedication, and euphoria of such endurance competition has affected his animal training and behavioral management approach. Given the industry-wide concern and focus on enhancing the well-being of species in our care, how do those goals mirror the physical and mental fitness of caregivers? /episode/index/show/zoologic/id/33118512

Enrichment Is Not a Substitute Trainer 09/12/2024

Enrichment Is Not a Substitute Trainer Jim Nemet is a long time marine and terrestrial animal trainer and serves as the Director of Wildlife for the Cleveland Natural History Museum. We asked him about the somewhat dated and artificial distinctions between training and enrichment, especially at a time when zoological facilities are increasingly concerned about improving animal welfare or well-being. Jim talks about the wider applications of operant conditioning and behavioral management, of which enrichment is a component, not just for public display animals in zoos and aquariums, but rescue, rehab and return of native species, as well as, threatened and endangered wildlife in national parks. /episode/index/show/zoologic/id/33016722

Developing Dolphin Drones 09/05/2024

Developing Dolphin Drones Dr. Jason Bruck and his collaborator, Dr. Jamey D. Jacob, School of Mechanical & Aerospace Engineering at Oklahoma Sate University describe their efforts to develop a suitable drone platform to study small cetaceans in the wild. Known as PHASM, Passive Health Assessment in Sea Mammals, the team has already worked through several iterations of the emerging technology to best collect and assess respiratory samples from bottlenose dolphins. Rather than rotary technology, the team settled on a fixed wing drone design to prevent dolphin blow samples from being dispersed by the downward rotary action of most drones. The latest stage of the project involved working with Dolphin Quest staff, animals and student researchers and pilots to beta test the drone and sample collection. /episode/index/show/zoologic/id/32904582

Seadragons 08/29/2024

Seadragons The announced the significant birth of several weedy seadragons. It is the first successful birth of these uncommon animals at Columbus, one of only a handful of institutions that have successfully bred seadragons. Senior Aquarist Aaron Jeskie, who was instrumental in the successful outcome, describes these unique creatures and some of the reasons they are so challenging to display and maintain. /episode/index/show/zoologic/id/32787542

Sharks Don't Sink 08/22/2024

Sharks Don't Sink Jasmin Graham describes her unique path as a shark scientist at , as well as, her efforts to increase diversity among the biological sciences, especially in marine science. She's also the president and CEO of (MISS), an organization dedicated to "see representation of gender minorities from historically-excluded communities of color and the Global South in shark, ray and other marine sciences is the norm rather than the exception." Her new book is entitled " /episode/index/show/zoologic/id/32685777

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